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Scoring Help, Huh?

Some high volume scorers can help their teammates be more efficient by taking the "tough shots." I would argue that D. Rose has that effect on the Bulls. I'm not sure anyone would say Ellis would have the same effect, but I can't be certain.

jkay reply to tk76 on Jun 10 at 17:07

i don't get it; doesn't Lou do that for us?

Wouldn't the team be worse offensively when Ellis was on the bench if that was the case?

Ellis plays 40 minutes a game. I'm guessing that the 8 minutes he's out you have bench players for both teams. So probably not the most useful data.

I was making more of a general observation that a high volume "average efficiency" scorer can sometimes help teammates who can't create their own looks get easier shots due to the gunner drawing heavy defensive attention.

Again, IMO this is definitely the case with Rose. With Ellis I don't know, but probably not- although the team did score well.

I've been running the same statistics up and down: no matter what you run, Ellis is only slightly (very slightly) higher in terms of offensive point production than Iggy was.

Iguodala is about equal in efficiency. Not close in terms of point production.

You cannot assume that if Iguodala took 50% more shots by increasing his usage rate that he would maintain his efficiency.

Both players are about average in terms of scoring efficiency. Iguodala does this with average offensive scoring production, and a great A/TO ratio. Ellis does this with comparatively high offensive scoring production (20+ pts/36 min and able to give you 40 min/gm), but at the expense of using up more possessions and not as good of A/TO.

You can't just extrapolate a low use guy to a high use guy. For example, in 1999-2000 Shaq scored about 30 pts/game on great percentages. That same year Dikembe had roughly the same or better FG%, eFG%, TS%. But you would never say Dikembe was a better scorer than Shaq.

It needs to be pointed out that this was Iguodala's least efficient of his career, and one where he was regularly battling injury, while it was Ellis' second most efficient.

I wouldn't classify Iguodala as being an inefficient player, just one who had an inefficient year. Now, if the injuries become chronic, then that's different.

I do agree that changing someone's role will often time change their efficiency. I wouldn't expect Iguodala to be an efficient high usage player.

Jason Shea on Jun 10 at 17:50

And you're not taking into account that Ellis can create his own shot - which in MANY of the games that we lost this year, we didn't have anyone reliable enough (ie. Igoudala) to score a bucket when absolutely necessary. Ellis providing even one or two of those in a game could change the result of many of our losses this season.

Rich reply to Jason Shea on Jun 10 at 17:59

Yes, it may have if you subbed Ellis for Iguodala at that moment, but you probably don't get into that point of the game with Ellis' poor defense being subbed out for Iguodala's excellent defense.

Then again, the fact that ellis can't defend his way out of a paper bag may have made those exact last second shots immaterial since the game wouldn't have been close.

Ellis 'advocates' keep bringing this nonsensical 'closer' thing up while ignoring the fact that WITHOUT IGUODALAS DEFENSE most of those games wouldn't have been close at all.

There are two ends of the floor - most ellis advocates seem to conveniently ignore defense cause that's when their argument falls apart like the search for WMD's

Damn it rich

Jason Shea reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 18:15

And you're assuming that he won't be held accountable to defend by Collins. In addition, Golden State as a team has never prioritized the defensive side of the ball.

Igoudala needs to be traded to free up a spot for Evan Turner, and we need a scorer - Period. (as well as a big man that we can draft) That doesn't mean that Igoudala isn't a very good player. He's just not a fit moving forward.

Jason Shea reply to Jason Shea on Jun 10 at 18:17

One more comment. The trade doesn't replace Igoudala for Ellis. It ends up replacing Meeks with Ellis, and Igoudala with Turner. Turner in my opinion has the tools to develop into a very good defender.

This is the same bs logic Kate Fagan keeps using. Within your ratation, iguodala's 37 minutes of excellent defense are being replaced by 40 minutes of terrible defense by Monta. Putting it any other way is spinning it to deflect the issue.

Do you feel that ET did not get enough chances to have the ball this year?

How exactly will he do if both Jrue and Ellis are his teammates? Will ET ever get to touch the ball?

Honestly, if you have Ellis and Jrue as your PG/SG, you don't want anything but a low usage shooting specialist as your SF. Do you think this fits the description of Turner and will help his game?

Jason Shea reply to tk76 on Jun 10 at 18:29

I think Evan Turner played like a rookie and was a bit overwhelmed. Do I think it means he can't become a very good or great player? No. I haven't soured on him.

You have to give up something to get something. Igoudala believes he's a superstar and he couldn't be further from one. He's a very good player and an asset that I believe should be traded for another piece of the puzzle. Perhaps Ellis isn't the answer, but we need a scorer and a bigman that isn't timid in the paint and can rebound. Take your pick on what you want to get for Igoudala, but it's time to move him to move forward. This needs to be Jrue Holiday's team, and while Igoudala is here, that isn't going to happen.

It's certainly not going to be Jrue's team if you bring Ellis in. Jrue will spend 30 minutes/game standing around watching Monta take bad shots.

If Mont Ellis were as good and great and wonderful as all the supporters were saying - why would the warriors be trying to get rid of him?

Jason Shea reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 18:37

Same reason we're talking about trading Igoudala. Gotta give something to get something when building a team. Guess we'll find out what Rod Thorn thinks is the best plan soon enough. If Igoudala's ego can handle becoming a 3rd or 4th option in the offense while we add a scorer and our young guys get better, than i'm all for keeping him. I don't see that happening though.

Ah yes, so now we''re talking about Andre Iguodala's ego which you know so well right?


It would be awesome if people who thought they knew andre iguodala so damn well actually knew somethinga bout his history

Jason Shea reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 18:41

I'm getting a kick out of how angry you're getting.

Tell me, genius, how do you plan to improve the team? Let's hear your big plan Mr. GM? I'm all ears. :)

A. I'm not angry - I'm bemused by stupidity.

B. You must not read this blog much, I don't delve into the 'fantasy bullshit' trade ideas in general because most of them are asinine and imbalanced.

It's obvious that you are one of those Iguodala Haters who think he needs to go just for the sake of making a change.

It's also obvious that you buy into the inane logic that people like Kate Fagan use to try and justify a Monta Ellis for Andre Iguodala swap as good for the sixers.

Very intelligent people have already proven to my satisfaction that anyone who thinks a straight up swap is good for the sixers should be sterilized for the good of humanity. Just because I don't have a 'better' trade than the one you've suggested (though I did actually suggest one involving russell westbrook weeks ago - look it up) doesn't meant that the Ellis trade is a good one mr strawman

And you're assuming that he won't be held accountable to defend by Collins. In addition, Golden State as a team has never prioritized the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not buying into this constant BS argument - defense is effort - on any team you can play good defense IF YOU WANT TO - they didn't just stand around and let the other team score - they suck at defense.

Any time somone uses such a nonsensical statement - their entire argument loses merit with me - sorry

Jason Shea reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 18:35

Well you can not buy into it, but it's just as valid side of the coin as your quick dismissal of it. Good thing we're all entitled to our opinions. :)

Actually there's actual eveidence to prove the 'he'll play better defense on a team that cares about defense' as a bull shit nonsense as much as a guy being 'clutch'

But you buy into clutch as well

Jason Shea reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 18:46

No, i just buy into occasionally u need to create a shot - which we really can't do right now. We're not talented enough yet.

And there are many many ways to create a shot - isos at the end of games are the dumbest moves in the wolrd - stupid coaching and lazy coaching - set a pick - run a play - move around - CREATE OPEN SHOTS for everyone on the court.

I'd rather someone set a pick for jodie meeks than depend on lou williams (or monta ellis) beating his man when EVERYONE KNOWS he's going to drive to the basket.

Intelligence can beat brawn or athleticism every damn time

That's why batman always kicks supermans ass

A lot of Ellis supporters have brought up his good "clutch time numbers" and Iguodala's poor ones.

1. Iguodala is being grossly misused if you are asking him to be a teams "offensive closer." He has many strengths, but no one would argue that this would be his best role.

2. GSW got outscored in clutch time by a wide margin. Unbalanced offense and poor shot selection often leads to easy baskets on the other end. And we all know Ellis is a poor defender the 90% of the time "he does not try."

3. Yes, Ellis averages 44pts/48min clutch time... but what is his usage? In regualr settings Ellis takes 20 shots/48 min and has a usage rate of 30%. But in "clutch" he shoots 30 shots/48 minutes. I'm guessing that makes for a usage rate of over 50%.

So extrapolate that... if a guy uses up 1/2 of your team's possessions jacking up jumpers and gets you 44 pts per game... is that good offense?

4. Guys that can't play well within a team setting do better if you tell them "just go out there and shoot." A prime example is how well Lou is at "2 for 1" times. And that is great if you need a guy to get a key basket. But its not so great for the other 46 minutes of the game.

And let's not forget the entire problem with clutch research




Interesting thread. I have to say that I haven't seen @JasonShea make any argument about clutch statistics, so @GoSixers seems to ascribe to the "put words into mouths" methodology of argument. That's the last refuge of a guy who can't argue logically. So is the ad hominem attack, like when he calls Fagan's logic BS and then doesn't provide any sort of substantial evidence-based response to @JasonShea or Kate Fagan. It doesn't help that the feeble attempt he does provide is completely wrong, considering that Iguodala's defense would be replaced by TURNER (a seemingly very competent defender), not Ellis. Meeks' defense would be replaced by Ellis.

@GoSixers, take a logic or argument class please.

I can't speak for anyone else, but Holiday, Ellis and Turner is a much formidable 1-3 rotation than Holiday, Meeks and Iguodala, in my opinion. It also makes Meeks, Lou and Thaddeus a very potent offensive substitution rotation. If we can snag Markieff Morris at 16, that would give us real frontcourt depth.

Did you see Mr Naismith invent basketball? Must not have happened.

Interesting that you suggest I take a logic class when you actually use known in your 'opinion' - which is all you ahve - you have opinion - can you support your opinion as fact - I didn't think so

Marc reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 19:15

Oof, after reading your response five times I finally figured out that you meant "none", not "known". Add an English grammar class, buddy.

I said "in my opinion" about the rotation. I attempted to argue two things as fact:

1) You can't construct a proper argument;
2) Iguodala's defense would be replaced by Turner, not Ellis.

On both I am correct.

Iguodala's defense would be replaced by Turner, not Ellis

Unless they've changed the meaning of the word replaced - that's not a fact - that's a supposition, with no data to support it, Andre Iguodala is one of the top wing defenders in the league. There is factual EVIDENCE to support his ability to shut down super star players that keeps sixers in games they shouldn't be in.

I see no factual evidence to support your baseless assertion that indicates that Evan Turners defense will REPLACE Andre Iguodalas. Evan Turner may 'play defense' in the same position as Andre Iguodala, that doesn't now mean his defense will adequately replace Iguodalas. In fact most available evidence indicates that Turner is not athletic enough (or strong enough) to play defense as well as Andre Iguodala.

However, a lot of evidence indicates that Monta Ellis couldn't defend a quadrapalegic who fell out of his wheelchair. Quite a bit of evidence indicates that Ellis and turner is still a step down from Iguodala Meeks.

Aside, yet again, from your baseless opinion, please use 'logic' (as you call it because you haven't actually used any yet) to support.

Marc reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 20:54

Dude, I know you think you're pretty smart and witty, but let's review the transcript, since YOU are the one that introduced the concept of replacing Iguodala's D with Ellis'. You said:

"This is the same bs logic Kate Fagan keeps using. Within your ratation, iguodala's 37 minutes of excellent defense are being replaced by 40 minutes of terrible defense by Monta. Putting it any other way is spinning it to deflect the issue."

The word replace, in this context, means to take the place of as a substitute or successor. It doesn't mean to exchange with someone or something of equal value. You're out of your depth, buddy, and functionally illiterate. I never said it would be adequately replaced or equally replaced (there you go again putting words into people's mouths). But he would replace Iguodala on the court as @JasonShea said, which means his defense would replace Iguodala's. You know, AS A SUCCESSOR!?!?!?

And from what I saw, Turner can play some D and develop quite a bit further.

He didn't say that, I did. And enough of these silly personal attacks. Talk about the topics and if you need to call each other names go to Philly.com.

nd from what I saw, Turner can play some D and develop quite a bit further.

Opinion, not fact

ShowYaLuv reply to Marc on Jun 10 at 20:36

That was excellent. Well done.

from watching Ellis play (the few times I have), he strikes me as a guy who has to make a couple of shots and layups to get in a groove. When he's in that groove, he can really do damage. But the price you pay for getting him there is possessions. In a system like Golden State's, it's not as much of a sacrifice as it would be for ours, where DC emphasizes turnovers to maximize possessions.

I could conceivably see keeping Dre and trading Turner and the 16th pick to try to upgrade the shooting guard position. What do people think of that idea? What could we get in return?

Am I the only one who thinks that Turner is better suited to playing the two, if possible. The three would ideally be a low usage, high three point percentage guy that has size to guard threes.

I would rather have Turner into a big shooting guard that a small three-man. That's just me though.

Marty reply to Rich on Jun 10 at 19:33

Probably blasphemy on this blog right now, but I actually was hoping for something more like Wright, Biedrins & #11 for Igoudala (and maybe #16). I like Turner as a two and think Wright would be ideal at the 3. I like Gallinari too.

Biedrins? Dear god why?

Marty reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 19:59

Because you need his contract to make the deal work. You're getting a steal with Wright's contract so you'll have to take back something unwanted from GS. And he's only 25, is he a total lost cause? Worst case, maybe they'd be able to waive him after the new CBA. If #11 got us Biyombo, I would do that deal.

You hope you're able to waive him after the new CBA.

Supposedly wright was going to break out this year with a new coach - how'd that work out? When I think of Wright I think of Speights

So what you get for Iguodala is Biyombo and maybe another speights and another dead weight contract that doesn't run out any sooner than Iguodalas?

I mean it's not WORSE than ellis

Marty reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 21:14

Um, you know he was the NBA's most improved player this year, right? And he's nothing like Speights. No idea where you're getting that from. He actually was one of the only Warriors who played a lick of D last season. Avg'd 16-5-3 and shoots the 3 well. He's also making 25% of what Igoudala's making. Biedrins is the tax on the deal, but he's only 25 and at one point was a premier pick-and-dive player. I'd rather take my chances with that deal (and move up for Biyombo) than move laterally for Ellis.

Well Kevin love won the 'most improved player' award so i'm not sure why you say wright is the most improved player.

Rich reply to Marty on Jun 10 at 19:35

I don't think that's blasphemy at all. I talked about Wright being a better fit this morning.

I would much prefer that deal to Ellis because Wright is a perfect guy for Jrue and Turner to grow next to, Biedrins is an upgrade over Hawes I assume, and #11 probably gets us Bismack.

Does it really matter if the low usage high three point percentage is at the 2 or 3 - if you have turner on the floor he guards the 'better' player?

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 19:38

Yeah, ideally he would be about the same size as Turner so the guy could pass at guarding the 2 or 3.

If he was one or the other though, I would hope he would be a true three, a guy who can guard the more physical guys. A guy who could only guard twos would be more like Jrue.

I think too many people still think the sixers are just 'one player away'.

This is a playoff team starting two guys who probably wouldn't start on most of the serious title contenders this year, one of whome might not sniff the rotation (depending on who the other big men were)

This is a playoff team with a lot of good bench guys - if you need scoring (not shooting) off the bench - but no 'defensive stoppers', no 3 point specialists (man kyle korver, who knew we had it so good) and hell, the only back up bigman this team really has is grandpa battie.

That doesn't get into the fact that the starting PF is just much older than everyone else and doesn't have many years left and there's no one on the roster who could possibly replace him - so realistically you need to find THREE starters beofe this team is a title contender (and that's assuming you don't get rid of Iguodala or if you do that Evan Turner DOES pan out)

So you need 3 starters, and a more balanced bench.

To me - trading Iguodala straight up for another long term guy who is less talented (all around) than Iguodala makes absolutely no sense. Now you're starting turner - and maybe he's a starter - maybe he isn't - but you still have all those other problems, and your best scorer off the bench was made redundant by monta ellis but ellis makes a lot more money and passes the ball a lot less, so then you gotta trade lou for pennies on the dollar cause everyone knows you don't need him any more.

Course, none of that can be logical, cause as we all know, I've never used logic, I never took logic, I never used symbolic logic to prove that 2+2=4, and I don't know what p and q tend to signify when studying logic because I'm too dim to comprehend logic.

A straight up swap for Iguodala for a worse all around player is asinine because the sixers aren't better - short or long term

Focusing everyone's hate on Iguodala is a genius plan though - let's focus on Iguodala so everyone ignores the 6 or 7 other flaws in our roster that won't be fixed by trading Iguodala.

Marc reply to GoSixers on Jun 10 at 20:15

Why would you have to trade Lou if you add Ellis? One is a bench guy and one is a starter. Their games have a bit of similarity but not that much, and aren't points off the bench a valuable commodity? And why would you assume we'd get pennies on the dollar if we did trade him? As a litigator would say, these are all facts not in evidence.

Trading Iguodala to upgrade a particular skillset could be a good idea depending on who we get in return. Holiday is blossoming as a defender. Turner can defend and needs minutes. We have to figure out what Turner is, and playing him big minutes is the only way to do that. No one is hating on Iguodala by suggesting we trade a good player to upgrade somewhere else. Fact is, Ellis brings a lot to the table that Iguodala doesn't and his presence would open up the floor for Holiday to take over the team. We'd sacrifice some defense at one position, add some offense at another, and possibly smooth out some of the problems we have in the halfcourt.

Court_visioN reply to Marc on Jun 10 at 21:17

Because Ellis would presumably play 35-40 minutes a game, and it would be stupid to play Lou and Ellis together.

eddies' heady's reply to Marc on Jun 10 at 22:18

Thanks for saying all that, it is reminiscent of the exact damn way I feel. All thanks bestowed upon you.

Marty reply to Rich on Jun 10 at 19:55

Probably blasphemy on this blog right now, but I actually was hoping for something more like Wright, Biedrins & #11 for Igoudala (and maybe #16). I like Turner as a two and think Wright would be ideal at the 3. I like Gallinari too.

Marty reply to Marty on Jun 10 at 20:02

No idea why this was posted twice.

Did anyone see the March 6 game versus the Warriors when Ellis had a horrible first three quarters and brought them back almost single handed? What does efficiency have to do with that? It's about scoring when the team needs points. That's a talent I always hoped Iguodala would developed and he just hasn't seven years into his career. Jrue has it. Lou has it. Brand has it. Seems Turner has it. Ellis has it!

For the record I don't want Ellis. Then again I don't want Iguodala anymore either. We've seen the best of Iggy's game and it has never equaled a plus .500 record. Evan Turner is my guy. He has been since game one if the season and will be till he proves me wrong.

jkay reply to KellyDad on Jun 10 at 20:42

...Allen Iverson's got it.

He can keep it too!!

ShowYaLuv reply to KellyDad on Jun 10 at 20:45

Best anti-Ellis post I ever read.

I think many of the arguments underestimate, if not insult, Jrue, Turner and Collins.

That game is a perfect example. Ellis used 35 possessions to score 27 points and his team lost. Iguodala had a triple-double in the win.

He's just a much worse version of Iverson. We already had that guy and it didn't work out.

At least get someone who can play defense.

Mike P reply to Mike P on Jun 10 at 21:39

If they do deal Iggy, lets at least hope they wait til Draft day and do something creative to get the most value possible back for him.

lol hoping for something creative to happen during the draft with the Sixers.

eddies' heady's reply to Mike P on Jun 10 at 22:30

I don't know about all the Iverson version thing but, I'd say that guy worked out pretty well. Look how far advancement was in the playoffs with him vs how far Iguodala has advanced you to this point.

Yeah, defense is important, but offense wins games. Defense keeps you in them, getting buckets wins it.

Collins is a good coach and we have some intriguing combos and possibilities if you switch out players by trades. I can't understand the sudden negativity over change, which as I've repeatedly said, can be good. Different elements type of way.

Example being as someone mentioned, the halfcourt can improve and become potent, if you make that move and secure a legit draft pick that is preferably a big. Stretch four or post-type, just some different looks from a personnel standpoint.

Collins has proven to be nothing short of a magician. I mean, who the hell takes Spencer Hawes, and Elton Brand as your main 5's and ends up with a top 10 defense in the league in your first year with those two!

Brian, awesome work as always, although this post could use an updated Igoudala Shutdown List with LBJ in the playoffs added into it....

...does anyone know what happened to that Daniels guy they signed for the last few weeks? Does he just disappear back to wherever he came from?

And how much dead money in guys like Dongaila, Kapono, maybe the Brack Show, Nocioni, and Speights could they at least try to convert into something useful before the draft?

btw, interesting read by Simmons on his new site about the NBA locking itself out into oblivion: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6649101/the-highs-lows-today-nba

Here is my take at a random fantasy trade involving Ellis:

Lou + Iguodala for Elis + D.Wright

Then flip Ellis to Cleveland for Hickson + #4

So you end up with Dorrell Wright, Hickson and the #4 pick (Kanter Val or Bismack.) And you clear about 10M in cap space.

And in anticipation to the Hickson critique,

over his last 40 or so games he averaged roughly 17/11 on 50% shooting.

and over the first 42 games?

I'm not a Hickson fan, but this is better than any of the rumors out there.

If you're planning on getting Ellis and immediately flipping him, I prefer a move that gets you Derrick Williams to the #4, Wright and Hickson.

I actually proposed that same trade yesterday (without the Cleveland follow up). You can possibly even ask for the #11 pick too. That's the kind of trade that does make sense for the team...

My reasoning was long term you can have a Jrue/Turner/Wright backcourt with Ellis as a super 6th man. And if you can get the #11 pick than maybe you can even add Biyombo at the PF/C spot.

emtmess on Jun 11 at 2:12

someone said about how many flaws this team has. Well all teams have flaws. The trick is to hide them or negate them by being really good at other parts of the game. So IMO the top three flaws of this team.

1. Interior play/rebounding. While having some players who are very good at rebounding for there position imagine if we had someone who could grab us a few more off. and deff. boards = more poss./increased chance of a win.

2. Half court off. I think there are several ways you could improve this area but do not have the stats/info to back up my theroy so if anyone wants to take a shot at this please go ahead? Just please for my own sanity do not say trade for M. Ellis.

3. We need to find a way to always have a respected 3 point shot on the floor. Guess that might help with #2.

I did not add shot blocking because I think it is more important to force difficult shots/contested shots. How often are blocked shots retained, put back in for a basket vs. being recovered by the Deff. team. Compare that to the % that the a team gets Deff. rebounds.

There are so many ways to fix the flaws and I think that is why it is so much fun to talk about. Also I have learned so much about the NBA from reading this blog and would like to Thank Brian and all who help contribute to it.

I agree that sometimes the trick is to hide your weaknesses. The problem is the two weaknesses that the team has are almost impossible to hide.

- Inside defense is essential for any contending team and it is not possible to succeed without it. And in order to fix it you simply need to have big men that can play defense or can be taught to play defense.
- Half court offense and 3pt shooting are part of the same problem IMO. The modern NBA is all about PG penetration and court vision and spacing from the SG/SF/PF spots. Hopefully we are set at PG long term and we won't need to discuss that anytime soon. As for spacing, this problem can probably be solved in a variety of ways and at times you can hide a weak shooter at one position if you have a good one on another. The key here is solving the spacing issue without hurting the defense. What the team needs is an elite shooter, that can play at least average defense at the SG or SF position. Jrue/Turner/shooter or Jrue/Iguodala/shooter would work long term if they can acquire one. Unfortunately those king of players are actually very rare, despite general perception that shooters with defense are dime a dozen...

But this is my biggest concern. Of all of the proposed trade rumors is Ellis the best player value that the Sixers would receive in return for Iguodala?

Ellis or Hedu?
Ellis or Kaman?
Ellis or Nelson?

Weeks ago people of this blog shot down the rumored Rudy Gay and Danny Granger trades. they are sounding a whole lot better now.

sfw reply to KellyDad on Jun 11 at 7:40

I would like to see getting Ellis then flip for a top draft pick, plus. TK's suggested trade would be a preference of mine.

If Iguodala isn't worth a top draft pick inthis weak draft, why is Monta Ellis?

Maybe it's not just some Sixer fans who value PPG and smaller contracts. I doubt Ellis can get a top pick, but I do think Ellis can probably get a higher pick than Iggy. Iggy's injuries, escalating contract, and desire to be traded really hurt his trade value in my opinion.

Ellis has an escalating contract
And hes' not as good as Iguodala
Ellis has an injury history - worse one
And he's not as good as Iguodala

As for the last point, I don't buy into the constant drum beat from the mouth pieces that he wants to be traded

Ellis is younger and has more cachet. So a bad team may not want Iguodala- who is more valuable if he has quality temmates.

But GSW might not want another lottery pick. They may feel like adding Iguodala will help them make he playoffs.

Not saying it would work- just the possible rationale.

Both parts of your rationale make no sense to me, but ok

Yeah, good points.

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