DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

Pressing Questions - June 11, 2011

user-pic
emtmess on Jun 11 at 2:17
+/-

I hope Spencer will not be our starting center.

If Dallas beats Miami, will everybody finally realize that the NBA is a team sport where you need cohesion, chemistry and well defined roles and not just a bunch of superstars? Also looking at Nowitzki and Lebron, does anyone finally realize that skill is more important for ultimate success than athleticism (I'm not saying that Dirk is better than LeBron, he isn't, i am just saying that he helps a team to win a championship more).

user-pic
jkay reply to Xsago on Jun 11 at 8:57
+/-

Yeah the Heat just made the Finals in their first year together notwithstanding injuries, a weak bench and a poor start. Dallas is a product of an amazing player that got hot and a bunch of title starved veterans who want to win it so bad. Dallas will win. The only thing that will deter that conventional wisdom is the cba agreement.

So the Heat not winning the NBA finals is proof that a collection of superstars can't win in the NBA? Why, because they'll come 1 (or 2) wins from winning everything ?

If anything, this season has proven that there are multiple ways to go about building a championship level team. (both of these teams are playing at a championship level).

People get hung up on the superstar thing though, right or wrong.

user-pic
Tray reply to Rich on Jun 11 at 17:56
+/-

Both teams have superstars. Both teams wouldn't be in the Finals without them. The Mavs are way deeper and have the benefit of playing together for several seasons. I think any sane observer of the NBA expects Miami to win at least one championship with this group, and probably more.

user-pic
deepsixersuede on Jun 11 at 7:19
+/-

One good thing I take from Fagen's recent articles is her not worrying about the center situation, and specifically getting one for Iggy.

She keeps saying that isn't part of the plan so hopefully a trade scenerio is in place to acquire one. I hope Hawes is thought of as a backup next year and at a lower rate than his qualifying offer. 2 years at 2 million per type deal or let him go.

I hope Dallas pulls it off and the rules change to limit Miami from adding much to what they have in the future.

Whether or not Dallas wins the series is not an indictment on whther or not the Heat players made a mistake, but all people who conclude something about it, it's an indictment on our jump to conclusion instant gratification society.

I don't think Dallas will win on Sunday, sadl Colin Cowherd had a good point about Miami winning and the amount of rest between games since they play an active defense. I think Dallas will win game 7.

I don't know if Spencer Hawes will be starting for the sixers whenever the season starts or not, but if he is, to me it's an indictment of whomever (whoever?) is running the organization at the time.

If Leborn James and Chris Bosh had decided 'we want to play with Andre Iguodala' how many people here would still hate Lebron?

user-pic
eddies' heady's on Jun 11 at 11:00
+/-

Dallas beating the Heat on Sunday? Hmmn, that's a tough one. I would expect Miami to finally show some mettle after putting the egotistical crap aside - wait - they maybe can not do that as Wade seems to have caught LeBron's infection. But really, I see Miami buckling down being back at home and Dallas not shooting so hot for the entire game like they did in Game 5.

Unfortunately, Spencer Hawes will be the starting center on opening night, however tokenly. They'll use him as a stopgap for one more year.

If/when we trade for Monta, I just wish Thorn could get Udoh or a future pick in return with him. Probably not likely, because it's a pretty fair trade if it's made straight up.

I think if this trade does happen as it's being mentioned, it will definitely not be the only trade we make, just the first one.

user-pic
eddies' heady's on Jun 11 at 12:03
+/-

Jrue
Monta
Singleton
EBrand
Hawes/whomever
w/ Thad, Turner, Meeks, and Lou's replacement after he's traded

Jrue
Monta
Motiejunas
EBrand
Hawes/whomever
w Thad, Turner, Meeks, and Lou's replacement after he's traded

Jrue
Monta
Jordan Hamilton/Turner/Thad
EBrand
Hawes/whomever
w Thad/Turner/Hamilton, Meeks, and Lou

I'd venture to say we win just as many games with the 1st option as we do this past year w/ Iguodala. The more I keep pondering over this trade the more I begin to like it's potential and possibilities.

Someone mentioned it yesterday but Collins and Jrue are being undersold here, big time. I think Monta would open up things for Jrue immensely scoring-wise along with increasing his assist numbers.

It is so not safe to assume Monta would be used by Doug Collins as he's been used in Golden State. Or to assume he wouldn't be held accountable or expected to buckle down on defense. It's not like he's ever played for a coach who's emphasized defense. I mean, it was Don Nelson of all people whom has never focused on that end of the floor throughout most of his coaching career. And we all know that players in general just don't have as much pride and interest in that end of the floor as they do on offense.

If he's sooo bad on D as most here say, then he can only get better right? You emphasize it daily in practice, and hold him accountable for it in games, and teach him team principles while sharpening his individual fundamentals. The ability to create his own shot and flat out score the ball while occasionally setting other guys up, and opening up the floor for other players that are good drivers / slashers is all gravy at that point.

Monta is not a catch and shoot player. He is a dribble and shoot guy. So he will cut into Jrue's touches and assists.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Jun 11 at 12:52
+/-

Couldn't disagree more. It doesn't matter whether he's labled a catch and shoot or dribble and shoot player. Jrue is going to initiate the offense over halfcourt, that's a given. You can't actually believe that if the initial pass is to Monta that Doug will allow him to become a black hole and just turn into this isolate and jack up shots player. Monta drawing attention with offense being run through him on occasion will open up multiple things for Jrue scoring-wise.

Besides, it's ludicrous to say that Monta will never catch and shoot the ball off of a pass from Jrue, if he is in fact open. I'd say that's being a little pigeon-holey and narrow minded.

Does Lou open up shots for Jrue? Because Lou and Monta have similar styles and usage rates.y

But Iguodala is Ben Franklin in sneakers. Only Ellis? Preposterous! Do you realize how the 76ers would collapse without Iguodala? Do you realize what a foreigner Ellis presently is? Is nothing sacred anymore?

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 13:04
+/-

Reminiscent of the l'il guy from Fantasy Island:

"It's da masses, da masses!..."

Iconoclasts were never known to be popular.

It's interesting the attachment fans have to certain players and not what change can do for the good of a team. Remember the pity party last year when Sammy D was rightfully shown the door about how our overall defense and defensive rebounding would suffer? How'd that turn out with Sir Doug at the helm?

I remember Sam well and forget his play happily. Look forward to more advantageous change.

Are you serious? That was a horrible trade. The defense would have been borderline excellent if Sam was here last year.

Are you sure? Defense is found in focus, commitment, brainwork and teamwork. Thankfully, all that's left of Philadelphia Sam are post-postulates.

user-pic
Rich reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 14:05
+/-

I'm pretty sure it was a bad trade. I watched Nocioni and Hawes play last year. Not to mention, I'm probably going to watch Nocioni and Hawes play this year.

Those are nice words and all, but defense is really found in a guy who blocks shots and rebounds the ball well, whatever his shortcomings are. Not in a doughy 5 man with no athleticism and 3 with the slowest feet in the league.

Honestly, I get that Sam was moody and had a weird attitude at times which irked people, but that trade is still an absolute robbery. Eddies and Monta defenders are saying that proper coaching, etc. turns Monta into a good defender. Well why does that not apply for Sam, who was already a good one?

Rich

I admire your pluck

That doesn't apply because Sam is a synonym for antiestablishmentarianism. Doug's requests wouldn't go unheeded but, in time, they'd be used as springboards for Sam's different way of walking - outside of schemata. Foul trouble squared.

Focus, commitment, brainwork and teamwork are more than "nice words"; they're ideas that can be personified on a court - or not.

user-pic
Rich reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 18:02
+/-

That's fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree. My point is that Sam would have helped Collins mold an even better team last year. You think that his so-called terrible attitude would have ruined what Collins accomplished.


I think the world of what Collins did from a motivation and defensive standpoint last year. He has his flaws, substitution patters and late-game offense, but I was thrilled with the job he did.

Sam was a bit of a goof, no doubt. My point is that Hawes is no way shape or form held any of the ideals that you are talking about. No more than Sam at least. A lot of the people who want Iguodala out because they think his attitude will wear on the team (Kate Fagan included) but I wonder why it didn't this year.

Ellis is talented, but IMO a terrible fit next to Jrue and Turner. My not wanting to trade for Ellis has nothing to do with Iguodala.

But from your comment it does not sound like you are interested in actual discussion. I can suggest some other sites that might be a good fit for your style of discourse if you like. Philly.com has very active message boards and you probably would find many fans of a similar mind and feel more welcome there.

But if you want to post here feel free to express your opinion about players and trades... but I could care less about your opinions about the merits of other posters. That applies not just to you but to everyone who posts here. I respect other peoples opinions but I have zero interest in hearing why one poster is superior to another.

Too close to the bone, eh, Dr. Emetic? Wanna suture up that free expression that doesn't correlate with yours, huh? A prescription of euthanasia for alternative viewpoints? Tryin' to play God again as a meager earthling? Pathetic. Who you trying to kid? You have a 100% interest in hearing that you're superior to another. (Listen for the echo, putz.) Today, you've said that you respect others' opinions (1:08 PM) while ridiculing and holding up for public inspection Marcus Thompson's opinion (12:05 PM). I guess you took the hypocritical oath.

You conceitedly and insultingly refer to Philly.com, insuating the site is of a "lower grade" of fans, as though you don't read its readers' comments. Be advised, SOME of the minds on that site are more agile and insightful than yours, hoopswise and otherwise. Wisdom comes in all shapes and sizes. If you want a suggestion as to where to stick your stethoscope, inquire within. In the meantime, bug off.

user-pic
Cin reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 17:42
+/-

You've clearly missed the mark if you were aiming for a substantive post. If your goal is to instigate, take your own advice. If you are bored, take your own advice.

Aw darn, I was hopin' for your approval. Another free arbiter. When it rains, it pours.

user-pic
Rich reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 17:50
+/-

Honestly can you cut the pissing match out please? Yes, only you too. First off, he didn't ridicule Thompson's opinion, he ridiculed the news Thompson relayed, which is his job as a beat reporter. Please learn the difference.

TK76 is one of the best posters on multiple 76ers forums because he is very knowledgeable. The best part about him is that he rarely gets in arguments with other posters. Take this from someone who does get in arguments somewhat frequently. Your description couldn't be further from what he is like.

Philly.com may have some alright opinions, but the majority of the site are people with little knowledge just yelling through the computer for the hell of it.

Thanks Rich, but to be fair, I'm sure I can come accross as arogant and somewhat dismissive when I don't agree with people- but it's not my intention.

But like you said before, its fine to have strong opinions about what we here in the news or see on the court. I just don't see how people arguing about other posters personalities or insulting people accomplishes anything. But whatever, I'm glad that for the most part people talk hoops here.

'Morning vomit' sounds like a judgement to me. And of course that's OK. Provided others' judgement are equally tolerated.

I knew TK76. And you, sir, are no TK76.

user-pic
Rich reply to Ty Game on Jun 11 at 21:30
+/-

Morning vomit: Information that would make you want to vomit! It makes him vomit because you don't want it to happen. Not a judgment.

user-pic
Rich reply to Rich on Jun 11 at 21:41
+/-

Also I'm sure it was meant as a joke. Obviously he doesn't want it to happen, but don't read into the word emetic like he wants to throw up on someone. I for one agree with his take on the subject. I would feel sick if that trade went down.

That's not the point though, he made a judgment on news that a beat reporter made. An opinion in other words. Nothing he said attacked Marcus Thompson.

I don't get the persecution, but I'll stop after this because it's been explained.

Thank you for your input. As I said, some forums are geared to a more argumentative style of discussion. That does not make them better or worse, but it fit the needs of what different fans are looking for. If you want to discuss basketball, feel free do do so here or wherever you like.

Polite snark will get you nowhere. Still, I invite you to write again on this blog. Perhaps you have a fresh thought on the 76ers.

Sorry you took it as snarky, or that you mistook my nausea from the through of a possible Iggy/Lou for Ellis/Biedrins trade as ill feelings towards the messenger.

Either way, I'm open to talking hoops. If you find my manner too off-putting then that's fine, we don't have to talk hoops.

Your morning emetic:

"Marcus Thompson (Warriors beat writer) via Twitter...

From what I keep hearing, GSW wants more than Iggy in exchange for Monta. PHI needs to sweeten deal (give up Lou Williams? Take Andris?)"

I said that if the Sixers trade Iguodala for Hedo it would be grounds for no longer being a fan. Let me add that Iguodala/Lou for Ellis/Biedrins is equally bad.

Ugh. All that "experts" nonsense makes me wanna throw up to be honest.

Ellis + Wright for Iguodala + Lou. That's best i am willing to go... Hopefully the Sixers will at least inquire about Wright...

user-pic
Rich reply to tk76 on Jun 11 at 13:50
+/-

Let's just give up Jrue as well.

Everyone in the Bay Area seems to have that take which IMO is a good thing. It makes the deal even more ludicrous to pull off.

If this is true then it's a tremendous development. Imagine golden state thinking Iguodala wasn't enough in the deal! If it causes the Sixers to get frusterated and just walk away for good, there couldn't be a better outcome. Also, do you think there's a chance the Sixers are trying to gauge trade value or are they committed to moving Dre for salary relief if it comes to just that?

This isn't too surprising. Cleveland's offered a trade exception for Iggy. In other words, his trade value to them was air.

Iggy's trade value is very low. And it's only going to get worse when his salary escalates after July 1.

Unfortunately, I think you are right.

user-pic
Charlie H reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 17:18
+/-

That new owner of the Warriors is spreading disinformation in a desperate attempt to improve his roster. He wants everybody to think Monta is an elite player, and he wants to get rid of him, so he's on a PR campaign. Since virtually all GMs know Ellis' value and don't pay attention to stuff like this, I guess he's trying to convince the GS fans that he's going to remake his team into a contender overnight.

The Mark Jackson hiring fits right into this plan. A big talker to get the fan base fired up.

Good news IMO that Bismack struggled in his big individual workout today.

"DraftExpress: Measurements just handed out here at the EuroCamp. Bismack Biyombo 6-8 w/out shoes, 7-6 wingspan, 9-4 standing reach, 245 lbs, 4.2% body fat"

Dwight: 6'9, 240, 7'4.5, 9'3.5

BTW, given how long Bismack's arms are, I think there is a fair chance he has an inch or so of growing to do. This is based on the fact that your arms and legs finish growing about 3-4 years before your back does.

user-pic
Charlie H reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 17:42
+/-

Good numbers, thanks. Everybody seems to forget that Howard is not even 6'10" (not that it matters much, but I guess that's your point).

Good news -in a a very important moment that he had time to prepare for - vital for his future - the player everyone slobbers over was unimpressive.

Yes, very good news.

Good news, it's not Ebola, it's just HIV

user-pic
johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 11 at 14:48
+/-

what's with you and ebola the last few days? Watching that Dustin Hoffman flick on AMC or something?

Or i have a masters degree in molecular biology and find virology fascinating

Especially Ebola - since the world will end when Ebola evolves - as is inevitable - to be airborne - currently the worst functioning virus in the world - give it airborne and a slightly longer inucbation period and the world is over

And that hoffman movie sucks bloody ass

So....1 bad workout overrides an impressive Euroleague season and Hoops Summit ?

user-pic
Steve V reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 11 at 16:08
+/-

I don't see how a workout where he missed a bunch of jumpers and showed no offensive polish hurts his draft stock, everyone already knew those were not his strengths. I , like many others, want him for the Sixers but have never really believed he be a top 10 pick when it's all said and done. I doubt he'll be there at 16 but do you think if hes there at 13 or 14 we could move up a few spots to get him?

If a guy has impressive credentials and then underperforms in the final interview - then yeah - it gives me pause.

I don't know. I don't see it as him "choking" or lacking preparation. The guy is just raw and lacks any skill right now. They had him shooting a ton of jumpers that he could not hit. He was not able to show off smooth post moves.

He has the aggression and athleticism to be a dominant defender and dunker against high level competetion. That is what matters for me.

I actually am hoping he is so raw that teams are scared away. the Sixers don't need a PF to step in right now. They can teach him a couple years while Brand is here. I'm more focused on whether he can be a good fit with Jrue and Turner down the road.

You put far more value in workouts than I do, then.

ACB is a much better place to evaluate talent.

user-pic
Steve V reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 11 at 16:10
+/-

Also, I wanted to do a little work on Hamilton and Jenkins but am having trouble logging in to Synergy for the past few days, the log in won't load for me, have you ever had any trouble with that?

That presumes I find his euroleague and 'hoop summit exhibition' performance impressive to begin with now doesn't it?:)

It would. It clearly was impressive, but I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion.

aren't you usually preaching small sample size?

Yup, and this isn't connected to that, but I won't bother explaining to you why because you won't listen.

This isn't about his ability - this is about preparation and being ready for something - this isn't a game - this is a try out, it's like being up for the lead in a play and then at the final audition you forget all the words

user-pic
Cin reply to GoSixers on Jun 11 at 16:23
+/-

Except it was a wordless play so his forgetting the words didn't matter.

That's why they're called metaphors

And before the 'man he's an idiot crew' pipes up - i realize it's a simile because i used the word like - after i said metaphor

user-pic
Cin reply to GoSixers on Jun 11 at 17:19
+/-

Just go with it.

His reciting of lines would be his reportedly terrible display of offensive skills. If he makes them or not is of little importance right now. It's a question of if he has something to work with going forward. If the comparison between him and Serge Ibaka stands true, it will be critical for him to develop a short/mid-range offense to be a legitimate two-way contributor and starter. That he does not have that ability is one thing, that he recognizes this and is putting the work in is another.

A final audition is still a small sample size of ones work. They're not mutually exclusive.

A final audition is a make or break moment of a career usually (if you still have to audition) - it's not something you want to choke at.

Fine if it confuses people - how about your college interviews (assuming you had them) - you only get one shot at impressing the school you wanna get into - would you consider yourself 'successful' still if you bombed the interview?

Or a job interview for a job you really want - you don't get multiple chances

user-pic
johnrosz on Jun 11 at 19:20
+/-

I'm glad to hear Biyombo isn't impressing at the workouts, hope they keep piling on. If he falls to the teens and the Sixers have a shot to move up and get him I will be a happy camper

Just caught up with the news of the day. The Biyombo workout doesn't bother me. There really aren't any expectations about his offensive game. If he was out of shape or if his measurements were off from where they were supposed to be, I'd be much more worried. Hopefully this helps him drop to us, or close enough to where we can move up to get him.

Here's a trivia question for you guys to start your Sunday:

How many teams in the past two decades made it to the finals with their leading scorer having a TS% of less than 55%? How many of those teams won in the finals?

user-pic
Tray reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 2:07
+/-

Let's see... Kobe in 09-10 (.545), LeBron came close with a .552, Hamilton in 04-05, the year they lost (.528), Duncan, winning the same year (.540), Hamilton winning in 2004 (.522), Bryant the same year, very close with a .551, Kidd in '03 with a .526, Kenyon Martin in '02 with a .503, Iverson in '01 with a .518, Jalen Rose in 2000 with a .547, Tim Duncan, winning in '99 with a .541, Sprewell, losing that year with a .503, Michael Jordan, winning in '98 with a .533, Ewing coming close in '94 with a .551, and James Worthy, losing in '91 with a .531. So, twelve of the forty Finals participants from 1991 to 2010 had sub-.550 leading scorers, and five of the twenty winners had sub-.550 leading scorers - Kobe, Hamilton, Jordan in his last year, and Duncan twice. Two more losers and one more champion had leading scorers in the .551-.552 range. The moral of the story, I guess, is that there's hope for Derrick Rose after all. Now, a trivia question for you - how many teams have won in the last 20 years without someone who averaged 20 ppg?

user-pic
Spencer Flaws reply to Tray on Jun 12 at 5:17
+/-

Boston in 08(Pierce 19.6)
spurs in 07 barely made the cut(tim duncan 20.0)
spurs in 05(Parker 16.6)
Detroit in 04(rip 17.6)
Detroit in 90(isiah 17.9) but that would be 21 years.
So thats only 3 teams.

Duncan averaged 20.3 ppg for the Spur's in '05, so you can take them off the list.

user-pic
Tray reply to tk76 on Jun 12 at 22:42
+/-

So it's actually easier to win a championship with a leading scorer whose TS%

So I've been trying to think about this whole Ellis thing logically and from our front office's POV in the case that he truly is their target. Maybe Doug Collins/Thorn see Jrue Holiday as a shut-down type of defender, one capable of guarding the SGs of the league and would rather put the onus of getting better defensively on him rather than asking him to score a ton more points. And maybe they are taking the realistic view on Turner (and not the hopeful one I, and many others have) that he's a nice kid and a good player, but potentially not a *star* in the league. They feel like Biyombo is going to fall to them, and they have a deal with a team to move Lou or Noc's expiring for an extra pick to select Chris Singleton in the works. So the lineup that may start the game and the season is Jrue/Ellis/Turner/Brand/Hawes but the future is Jrue/Ellis/Singleton/Brand (or more likely a future PF)/Biyombo. You'd have Meeks, Turner, Thad, and maybe Hawes off the bench.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's easy to isolate the move as one transaction but I can't imagine the Sixers don't see the weaknesses and imbalance this trade would create on their roster. So I have to think they'd have more moves in the works or at least an idea how to mitigate the impact.

Well I tried to think that way when they let Miller walk and when they traded away Sam without having a legit post defender on the roster. But the team never really made a quality f/u move either time.

Yes, they drafted Jrue, but it was somewhat improbable that he was able to step in and be ready to be a full time PG so quickly.

So I don't think they have a multi-step plan in place- but hopefully I am wrong.

user-pic
Chunky Soup reply to Marty on Jun 12 at 1:44
+/-

That's a pretty cool way to look at it, you're being very generous. Unfortunately, if they are actually interested in this deal, I'd bet their thinking is more along the lines of Ellis is a great scorer and we need a great scorer.

I'm also worried that they don't really consider Jrue playing less time with the ball in his hands a problem.

Since Ellis reportedly wants to go to Chicago, how about this three team deal:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3fkgsqz

Iguodala + R. Brewer to GSW

Ellis to Chicago

D. Wright + Asik + Korver + #11 to Philly

Is this enough?

GSW is not giving up Ellis and Wright and the #11 for Iggy. The best we could hope for is Ellis alone.

They are not getting Iguodala alone... Brewer is a pretty good player as well, who will fit with the new defensive system that they are saying they will implement.

Trade Proposal:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3kgc4ep

Chris Kaman + Randy Foye + 37th + 47 pick of 2011 draft

for Iggy and Nocioni

Sixers save $3.7 million for 2011-12

Sixers save over $30 million for the rest for Iggy's contract

Sixers new lineup:

Jrue/Williams
Foye/Meeks
Turner/
Brand/Brackins/Speights
Kaman/Hawes

Ugh, how is this trade different from Iguodala for Kaman straight up? Horrible trade... Foye and the picks are useless...

I would start Meeks over Foye since they would still desperately need a shooter. With Lou getting his 25 minutes off the beech, I'm not sure I see many minutes for Foye.

I really like Foye. We'd still be a good team with this deal, and we'd have major cap room. And adding Foye allows us to trade LouWill and Meeks for nothing (addition by subtraction).

You really like a lot of terrible players, don't you?

Foye is garbage.

Drugs are bad, mmmmmkay

Always liked the guy from watching him in person in high school and college. Nasty talent. I certainly prefer him to Louis Williams.

Randy Foye was actually pretty decent as a starter for the Clippers this season, it's when Randy came off then bench and got fewer minutes that caused his production to really drop.

This trade provides the Sixers with an upgrade at the center and SG positions (i don't count Iggy as a SG) while giving the club both short and long term financial relief. The second round picks could be used to find a rotation player or perhaps even packaged in a trade to get a late first round pick.

Chris Kaman + Randy Foye and two second round picks > Monta Ellis

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 12 at 9:15
+/-

Column: Brown, Iverson in similar situations:

http://ow.ly/5fO3u

Interesting 'dual lightning rod' article, Tom.

Not surprised PSU AD Curley didn't want a roving 70 yr. old to try to pump blood into the program, especially knowing the recruiting challenges that the Nits traditionally face in the basketball realm. School's best pro big men: Calvin Booth, Jon Amechi, Frank Brickowski. Best pro guards: Stan "Whitey" Von Nieda (Tri-City Blackhawks; of Ephrata, PA), Bobby Weiss ('66-'67 Sixers) and Joe Crispin (pit stop w/Lakers & Suns in '01-'02). Spinoff: early 70s guard Chuck Christ, coached by John Bach, played safety for NFL Giants/Saints/49ers without any JoePA training.

Iverson hasn't gotten any quicker, safe to say, since his Sixers return-and-out, but Turkey experience seems to have whet his appetite for an NBA bench role, if any franchise needs a little scoring and newsprint punch.

user-pic
Steve V on Jun 12 at 9:16
+/-

What do you guys think of bringing in Ben Wallace as a stop gap until we find a long term answer? He only makes 2 mil a year and is still one of the best interior defenders in the league. I'd trade Speights for him and Terrico White in a heartbeat. The Pistons may go for it too, they're not going anywhere in the next few years so may be willing to trade him for a "young,promising offensive big man." Even if we somehow get Biyombo it would be great to let him learn for a year or two from the guy he's most often compared to.

user-pic
Cin reply to Steve V on Jun 12 at 12:43
+/-

At this point, probably his last year if he's not already finished, and still being a contributor, isn't he more likely to go to the Celtics who have a need and championship aspirations? That's if he wants to be anywhere other than Detroit. Speights definitely can't be on our opening day roster, you're right that he needs to be traded.

user-pic
deepsixersuede on Jun 12 at 10:00
+/-

Some good video on Bismack, Montiejunis and Markief Morris on draftexpress; If Collins could somehow give Montiejunis an attitude adjustment he could be a steal at #16.

Derek mentioned he got stronger and you can see it in his workout video, though he seemed disinterested and missed a lot of shots. Does the Spieghts pick have them steer clear of him and go with a surer thing in Morris?

A 1 through 4 of Holiday, Turner, Iggy and Montiejunis would sure be fun to watch and a great passing team.

Brian, wonder what your odds are of Iggy being moved? Looking at the free agent s.f.'s available at a cheaper price and reading other teams blogs it looks to me that there is a good chance he isn't going anywhere, a good thing.

Most of this teams options at #16 are offensive players and moving Iggy for the same thing would kill any positives Collins instilled on the defensive end last year.

Givony mentioned this weekend Bismack and Montiejunis are in the 10 to 20 pick range so maybe Bismack is there at #16.

I don't think we are a possible landing place for Motiejunas. For all the skill he possesses he has not played a lick of defense at any level and is too physically weak to expect improvement for at least a few years.

One important thing to keep in mind is we have the tremendous luxury of having a long-term coach in place and Collins' greatest strength is to exploit the match-up's. Given this I expect them to look for a versatile defender and preferably someone to man the 5 for long stretches. Not necessarily a prototypical starting 5. Chris Singleton and Markieff Morris come to mind. Obviously Singleton can't defend a center but he could spot-up from the 3 and defend the premier wing or if he's running with Turner, the stronger/larger wing. Morris has the potential to defend the 3/4/5, although primarily the 4, and is a stretch 4.

Do you think Morris can rebound and defend well enough to play center? I didn't realize people were looking at him as a 5. If so, then he could be a good pick.

He's not nearly long enough to be a 5 imo. Thad has a better reach and wingspan.

Oh ok, then I don't like it nearly as much. I'm trying to figure out who to root for the Sixers to take on draft day if Biyombo or Valanciunas don't fall that far. I like Faried but he seems a little small, same with the kid from Texas. The big guy from USC is huge but sounds like a bad athlete and everyone has soured on the guy from Brazil. Are you leaning toward anyone right now?

More leaning away from people. Don't want any part of Moti. Morris seems very blah to me. Honestly, if Biyombo is off the board, none of the "bigs" really do it for me. I'd probably prefer they go with Singleton, if he's there.

user-pic
Cin reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 14:53
+/-

Permanently he is not a 5 of course. Really his wingspan is even short for a PF, but he does have the strength and fundamentals (rotations, positioning, contests, etc.) for the 4/5. It won't amount to an inordinate quantity of blocks, especially as weakside help, but as a hustle type/one on one post defender, he'll get his.

It's tough for me to put any kind of percentage on trading Iguodala. Common sense says they won't do anything until the sale is complete, but common sense never seems to apply to this team.

Hey, they didn't list any Sixers representatives in the story here, did anyone see someone from the Sixers FO when they were panning the spectators?

user-pic
Cin reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 13:10
+/-

I was under the impression that workouts were not being held due to a European expedition, which could in no way not include Eurocamp. Probably just missed them... pretty weak international ties probably.

Yeah, I read other reports that every team picking from #2-#18 was there.

user-pic
Stuart reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 13:43
+/-

if you watch the Donatas workout, the camera eventually shows Witte and Dileo being there. I didn't see Thorn or Collins

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 13:48
+/-

I thought I saw C.Witte in the Montejunis video, and Fagen mentioned last week that there would be no workouts this weekend because the front office was going to Europe for interviews setup and workouts.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 12 at 13:59
+/-

Witte and Deleo were at the Montiejunis workout. He and Bismack's workout video's are on draftexpress.

Here's another fun piece from Kate Fagan. Check it out and tell me what she's saying without actually saying it.

Seems she likes Jrue but questions whether he can be a leader of the team.

"Although you and I might not dance the C-walk before taking the court, Holiday does. Because Holiday still loves playing, and the longer he keeps that attitude, the better this franchise will become."

So, the opposite.

She does not however mention Andre as part of our young core, which is fair. Andre and Elton are the weathered veterans. Andre is a leader by example and if he his misplaced as the number one option then so is the notion that he is the team leader. He carries that mantle solely by seniority, being the only tenured Sixers lifer.

Kate Fagan probably also approves of the wizards doing the dougie and lebron doing the 'chalk dance'

It's a ridiculous paragraph. You can't decide if someone loves playing (or not) because of a silly dance they do. Maybe Jrue likes to dance, maybe jrue is just an attention whore who likes the dancing, maybe jrue would rather be on so you think you can dance rather than play basketball.

There's 100s of conclusions about Jrue dancing that you can make up as much as you can make up conclusions about another player NOT dancing.

It's not even yellow journalism - it's not journalism at all

user-pic
Cin reply to GoSixers on Jun 12 at 14:29
+/-

She's using Jrue's dancing ability to symbolize his youthful passion for the game and, in turn, its manifestation as a catalyst for the teams growth through his innate leadership qualities.

She's using Jrue's dancing to indicate a 'love for the game' and implies that if you don't dance, you don't love the game.

At least that's how I read it, taking into account Fagans recent history of Iguodala Bashing

user-pic
Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 12 at 15:03
+/-

LeBron dances a lot, and people question his love for the game.

He must only work out because he's paid to do it, not for the love of the game.

A lot of people question a lot of things (stupidly) about Lebron James

If they lose this series, it won't be LeBron's fault. He specifically went to Miami so Wade could carry them through the fourth quarter of tough games. If Wade fails to do that, you can't blame LeBron. Maybe you can say LeBron should've chosen a better guy to carry him through moments when he checks out, but actually losing the games, that's not on him. They're here because of LeBron, he deserves credit for that.

user-pic
Tray reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 22:29
+/-

He specifically went to Miami because he couldn't win a championship on a team where the next best player was Andy Varejao, or Brook Lopez, or where the coach was D'Antoni, or where the owner was Donald Sterling. It came down to Miami and Chicago and I think it's a very weird argument to say, "Wade's a better player than Rose, therefore he should've played with Rose so as to impair his chances of winning and prove he could win on a team where he was substantially better than the next best guy." Anyway, outside of this series, he has been a pretty great fourth quarter playoff player over his career. Take the Detroit series, the Chicago series this year, that Orlando series where he just kept getting the ball handed to him in 1-4 sets and somehow scored just about every time. Abbott did a good piece on this today.

Check out Woj's piece on the playoffs last year and the Olympics.

user-pic
Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 12 at 15:17
+/-

I watched a terrific documentary that aired last night just now. It was on Bjorn Borg and John McEnroe's rivalry. I see a lot of Borg in LeBron (minus the winning of course). They both seemed like they really did love to play when they started and just got burnt out.

Then again, Borg made his life all about tennis for a decade then quit. If they are wired the same way, LeBron might be balancing his life better so he won't be completely turned off at any point.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 13:06
+/-

Um, maybe the same thing I said last year - Andre isn't a leader of a team? And Jrue shows signs of being one.

Nah, she's pretty much said that straight forward in the past. This entire article is another veiled jab at Iguodala. This time, she's questioning his work ethic, his motivation and his love for the game:

For this group, basketball is not yet a dreary professional obligation. They are not bound by a contract to slough to the gym and get up at least 500 shots; they seem inspired to improve at the game they still love.

He's still a gym rat. He still loves the game.

At least that's how I read it. Holiday is all these things, as opposed to that other guy.

I'm not sure, maybe. I took it more as Iguodala is already gone in her mind so it's gonna fall on Jrue to be team leader, and while he shows some positive signs, is he actually ready for that responsibility? I don't know, it wasn't a very interesting article.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 12 at 14:39
+/-

Yeah, I gleaned those things from it too. Gotta say that was a pretty acrimonious piece by her.

In her recent chat she said Iggy is a "wonderful" all-around player, and that she spoke with him personally before he left for China. She can't hate him that much.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/Sixers-chat-with-Kate-Fagan-June-10.html

That article isn't even worthy of bleacher report

What I took from the article is Jrue will be face of the team next year, and that's even if Iguodala stays. She is trying to lay the groundwork for Jrue becoming the leader of the team and how he should go about it.

Like it or not, Iggy's days in this town seem to be numbers. Most casual fans who buy tickets are done with either his game or his personality. Those are the people who are supposed to be buying tickets to go see the Sixers. You will never fill a arena with true fans of Iguodal's game. Jrue is the one two players who can create a buzz on this team. Evan Turner being the other.

Funny how it seems that any writer that is critical of Iguodala gets buried on this blog.

Funny how it seems that any writer that is critical of Iguodala gets buried on this blog.

And writer who doesn't support their arguments with facts instead of the kind of baseless speculation that appeals to the philly.com and WIP crowd. Yes, they do get buried, because 'journalists' who wrote with an agend aren't journalists, they're Peter Vescey.

Fagan decides to paint a picture and writes her story to paint that picture - whether it's supported by evidence of not.

Or maybe you agree that Ellis for Iguodala straight up is a great trade for the sixers, like she does?

I'm not just referring to Fagan. Any writer on any site or any TV personality for that matter. Even people on this blog get blasted for anything anti-Iggy. It's been this way since way before any Monta Ellis talk started.

So - you're new to blogs? That's how blogs work.

Go to philly.com and be 'positive' Iguodala - you'll get blased - go to TGP and say Ryan Howard 'strikes out too much' or the phillies need more grit.

Blogs that thrive tend to develop a 'mindset' and of cousre since msot of the Iguodala criticism is purely based on bull, why should it be taken seriously.

Most of the anti Iguodala writing isn't factually based it's the esoteric 'score more points' or 'he's not a super star' - he's not good enough 'he's over paid - it's tiresome to keep reading the same crap when most of it's wrong.

Other blogs might blast Iggy for not scoring more but guys on this blog have now settled on him being just a defensive stopper. That's really setting his ceiling very very low. He's more talented than that. When people point out he should be better offensively it's taken as an attack on him.

First of all, he was much more than a defensive stopper last season. He was a great rebounder, and an elite playmaker. His assist:turnover ratio was 8th in the league, with only PGs above him. If you're looking purely at PPG, he was 11th in the league as a SF, so better than average with pretty much average efficiency.

I don't have a problem w/ people criticizing him, if the criticism is legitimate. For example, saying it's unacceptable that his free throw percentage dropped from 82% to 69% over the past five years, that's a legit criticism. Saying he should attack more when he has a clear advantage on the offensive end? Also a legit criticism.

It's when people get into these B.S. criticisms, like intimating that he only works out because he feels obligated to by his contract, not because he loves the game. That's unfounded crap, and deserves to be exposed as such. Blaming Iguodala for the team playing .500 ball, again, that's crap. He was the reason they made it up to .500, not the reason they didn't play better.

Making Iguodala the villain is an easy way to let the front office off the hook. This team played above its head because Iguodala is who he is and plays the game that he does.

This team has glaring holes and the debate the beat writers are having isn't about how to fill those holes, it's about how it's a great idea to create another one. It's asinine.

Um yeah - what he said - but probably less nice cause I has no tact

I can't agree with that. I've been scolded several times Myself for wanting Iggy to score more when in fact for a player of his expirience and skill level he should be more polished offensively than what he is. And add in thd fact that this team NEEDS a scorer at some points in the game. These fact are too obvious to ignore. Most regulars on this blog do. Consistantly. For everything Iggy does good on the court he has a deficiency in another area.

So you're saying he takes away as much as he gives? That's pretty ridiculous.

No. I'm saying he could give more. He's not hurting the team but he could help do much more if he scored more. Does he take advantages of his mismatches on offense? Does he post as often as he should? Is he any better at breaking down a defender? Is his jumpshot anymore reliable than it was 3 years ago? All these areas shouldn't be an issue at this stage in his career.

Why do you think this team is so much better when Lou or Thad is scoring the ball? They NEED a scorer. I know it. You know it. Iggy knows it.

Well, I think Thad's a more natural scorer than Iguodala, so is Lou. That's their strength, it's not his. He gets his points, does it efficiently, but he's never going to be a 20+PPG guy.

I'd love it if he could make all the improvements you just mentioned. If he did, he'd be LeBron. But he's not. He never will be. The problem I have is people saying because he's not LeBron, then he's got to go. He's a failure because he isn't LeBron. That's an insane standard to have for anyone.

If you're saying they need scoring, or a scorer, then look elsewhere in the lineup, because Iguodala's style of play allows you to add a high-usage score at any other position.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the team is better when Lou and Thad are scoring. When Lou is scoring, they're basically treading water. When he's dominating the ball, they don't lose any ground, don't gain any ground, which is actually decent for a bench guy.

Thad's specialty is scoring. If he wasn't scoring efficiently, he wouldn't have any reason to even be in the league.

btw, this is a legit conversation to have. If you're talking about trading Iguodala for a legitimate scorer who can do it efficiently, then maybe the tradeoff is worth it. But if you trade for Ellis, you're not getting that at all. You're getting a guy who's going to eat up a ton of possessions and not improve the overall offense at all. If you get Ellis, you're still going to need more scoring, only now you're going to wind up needing more defense as well. A lot more defense.

I have had to lower my expectation of him myself. All I want him to do is score when needed. I've given up on him scoring 20+. I still think he has the ability but he needs the instinct. Again, I thing Evan turner has that instinct.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that instinct. If you mean the ability to get a hoop when the team really needs it, then I think you have a chance w/ both Jrue and Turner. If you mean the instinct to be able to carry the offense, and do it efficiently, then maybe Turner is that guy. If he is, then you're set on the perimeter with a rotation of Jrue/Turner/Iguodala/Meeks/Williams and you should be concentrating on the front court.

No. I'm saying he could give more

Really, sums it up right there, all the Iguodala haters, they can't appreciate all he does cause the points are not there.

Again, I'll tell you to learn the history of Andre Iguodala - he's NOT a primary scorer NOR HAS HE EVER BEEN - it's not his game - and expect him to be something he has NEVER been is asinine.

PS - you don't know how much he could give

You should learn the history of good players. Good players ajust to the situation. Was A. Miller a scorer when he came to thd Sixers? Was R. Allen just a jumpshooter before he went to Boston? Was J. Kidd known as a shooter when he came into the league? They adjusted to win games. It can be done. Good players take different roles all of the time. You are giving him a pass because he does other positive things on the court. I always thought that would have been the one thing he learned from playing with Iverson. When to take over and score. Iguodala just never adjusted. You seem to believe he can't. If he can't then he MUST go.

This really doesn't make sense. Orlando needs a playmaker. Dwight Howard must learn to dribble and dish, that's what his team needs. If he can't learn to do that, he must go. That's exactly what you just said about Iguodala. Nothing else he does matters unless he can do this one thing.

I think you are right. The Sixers all seem to respect Iguodala a ton. But The roster is full of guys several years younger than Iguodala, of which Jrue is the youngest. But if anything, Jrue appears to be the leader of that crew.

I'm not saying it is a spit locker-room. More that a PG often is a team leader, and it looks like tghings are transitioning to where Jrue is the face of the team... at least until they trade for Monta :)

I sort of feel bad for Jrue in that it will be much harder to enjoy the game once you become the focus of everyone's attention.

I'm afraid this might be more hope than what's actually happening, at least from an internal perspective. Outwardly, I think the marketing folk are trying to make that transition, but as far as the team is concerned, I'm not sure I see it. And if you believe Kate at all, Lou is the guy those young guys see as their leader.

This isn't to say that I don't hope things move in that direction, with the team becoming Jrue's, it's just that I don't think I've really seen any indication of that happening on the floor.

Lou is the guy those young guys see as their leader.

Then the future of the team is screwed, his 'rap' his twitter behavior, it doesn't strike me as a leader any more than Iguodala being the best player on the team but not dancing strikes a good leader

user-pic
The Greek reply to KellyDad on Jun 12 at 20:22
+/-

Kate Fagan knows more about the inner workings of that locker than anyone in here with the exception of Tom Moore. That's a fact.

user-pic
The Greek reply to KellyDad on Jun 12 at 20:24
+/-

Kellydad, your words are the truth my friend.

Hmm...seems the new troll is drawing a lot of attention from folks. If you ignore them they go away.

As for Kate Fagan, if she wants to be the Misanelli of beat writers, more power to her, she has no credibility left.

As for those who continue to ask Iguodala to be what he never was, it's like asking for a Bush to be intelligent or for a Jessica to have talent - it's not going to happen, but people seem to appreciate who they are as opposed to just focusing on what they aren't.

The best basketball player on the team, and a majority of folks think trading him will make the team better.

Here. I have 100 dollars, I'll give it you, you give me 75 dollars. I'm better off.

"Here. I have 100 dollars, I'll give it you, you give me 75 dollars. I'm better off."

i agree, if you cant get what you want for iggy dont trade him


user-pic
emtmess reply to GoSixers on Jun 12 at 13:43
+/-

Does taking the $75 put me in a lower tax bracket?

...so is anybody else here watching what is hopefully the last Q of Miami's season?

Don't want to jinx it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats Mavs, YOU SUCK HEAT, and yes we could totally take those chumps (with a real center)...

Is that real center bill russell wilt chamberlain or kareem abdul jabar?

Cause if not, then no, the sixers could not take the heat in a 7 game series - the mavs have a lot more talent than the sixers - they have better defenders than the sixers after Iguodala and oh yeah, their back up point guard kicks lou williams ASS

user-pic
Hugh reply to GoSixers on Jun 12 at 23:19
+/-

yea.. I hate JJ Barea when he's playing against the Sixers. Last year against Dallas, Jrue was owning Kidd and the Sixers collectively were doing a good job on Dirk. The Sixers had an 8 point lead early in the 2nd and it looked like they would win it.

Then JJ came in and made our whole team look silly. I seriously wanted to go Andrew Bynum on his ass

Not 7
Not 6
Not 5
Not 4
Not 3
Not 2
Not 1.........lol

I am really disappointed in the Mavs. Dirk, Kidd, Marion, Peja, Terry, and Chandler have been playing since the early 90's or the early 00's. They finally win and they barely crack a smile. Lebron and Wade did a lot more celebrating when the beat the 7th seed Sixers.

I like it. All business.

user-pic
jkay reply to Brian on Jun 13 at 1:38
+/-

+1


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif