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Pressing Questions - June 18, 2011

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eddies' heady's on Jun 18 at 1:35
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I'd trade Andre + Speights for #4 + JJ Hickson. With the pick to be used on Jonas.

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Steve V reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 18 at 8:49
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What do you like about Jonas? He's a hustle player right noe and has good athleticism, but even in his prime I doubt he'll ever be a "go to" guy and probably will never be able to get points outside of 10 feet. He's also seriously lacking in the strength department.

1) Disagree he'll never be able to get points outside of 10 feet. He has solid touch on his jumper. He hasn't used it much, and it's going to need repetition to be consistent, but he should at least be average from 10-15 feet in his prime
2) not too worried about his strength. he looks like he has the frame to put on muscle.
3) No, he'll never be a go-to guy. That's not what he's being drafted to be. The hope with whoever's drafting him is he becomes a Tyson Chandler type.

I like Valanciunas more and more every day. He has actually jumped ahead of Kanter on my draft board. His 90% FT rate is huge for a big man. He can be a factor in crunch time without a problem. Usually players with very good FT rates tend to become very solid mid range shooters over time.

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Steve V reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 18 at 11:19
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Do you think he has the ability to be a defender on Chandlers level? He got pushed around alot in his league , but that could be attributed to his opponents being much older than him. His 90 percent free throw percentage is encouraging but I still don't think its a sure thing he develops any time of perimeter game.

Yeah, I think this is a fair trade. Obviously, I'd rather hold onto Iguodala but if the team feels like they need to move him, then getting the guy with the biggest upside in the draft is a nice consolation.

1.) No. They aren't the making move type. The team hasn't moved up in the draft's first round in ... wow, I actually can't figure out when.
2.)Less interested. Not because of the weaker overall class (which it is), but simply because of the position, regardless of whether or not most of us knew Evan Turner was going to be a Sixer since the draft lottery. But I do admit that finally having a second round pick for the first time in four years is intriguing.
3.) I can't say anything for certain with the CBA and everything, but I get the feeling the organization will do what they can to keep him on the team.

(1) I do not expect the Sixers to move up. I think they are quite thrilled with the talent projected to be there at 16 (in my opinion, it's better than the talent available at #6 in last year's five-man draft). Right now I think they'll end up picking Vucevic. If Singleton or Tristan Thompson falls, they could pick them. Jordan Hamilton is a possibility if he's there, especially if they trade Iggy. If all 4 of those guys are gone, I think it'll be Markieff Morris. I like all four of those guys, and wish there were a way we could trade Iggy and Lou to grab 2 more first-rounders and come away with Vucevic, Hamilton, and Thompson.

(2) Definitely more interested in this year's draft. I was totally pumped about Turner, but there wasn't really any drama. This year we have no idea what's going on. Plus it's a much deeper draft and the whole first round should be interesting to watch.

(3) Thad will be back if he's willing to make a career coming off the bench. If he's not, he may not be back.

1) I think the Sixers reasoning is that at least one top 10 ranked player will slip, which is why they haven't really explored any draft related scenarios. They seem happy with drafting players that slip for some reason.
2) I am probably more interested in this draft simply because after the draft lottery we kind of all knew that Turner was very likely going to be the pick at #2. However, despite my interest in this draft i am very low on the actual talent in the draft. I feel like this draft will produce only 6-7 good players and everybody else will be 10th man material at best.
3) I really believe Thad will be back next season. I think the organization as a whole is much higher on Thad than the average poster here on DF. I actually think that Thad is the biggest reason why the Sixers want to trade Iguodala not Turner. I expect to see Thad as a starter at SF when/if next season starts.

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deepsixersuede on Jun 18 at 7:41
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I don't think they move up in the draft because a] they won't trade Iggy for an unknown talent b]none of their other players they would trade get them higher c] why give up an asset when the guy they get at #16 may be better than a guy they get at #9.

I do expect a move up in the 2nd round for a player they like, because Spieghts, Brackins or future #2's allow it to be done at less expense. A J.Tyler,K.Benson or J.Johnson added to #16 would make this a good draft.

I am excited because Thorn and Collins hopefully won't pass on the oppurtunity to get the Deandre Jordan of this years 2nd round.

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Steve V reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 18 at 8:54
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I think that's JaJuan Johnson. The only thing this guy doesn't have is strength and his frame probably won't add too much more weight , but he's a really good shotblocker, plays hard all the time, has developed a very consistent 18 ft jumper and is one of the better athletes in this draft. I think he should be a mid to late first rounder.

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Steve V reply to Steve V on Jun 18 at 8:58
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Actually I shouldn't say lacking in strength, more like lacking girth. He's wiry strong as evidenced by his 15 reps at the combine. His 38 inch vertical is also freakish for his size. I'd take him over Vucevic easily.

Bench press has very little to do with big men.

He's lacking lower body strength in a big way. It's going to prevent his post game from translating, and it's going to prevent him from being a quality post defender and defensive rebounder.

He'll still have some value, but he's a backup big.

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eddies' heady's reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 18 at 10:59
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But his lack of lower body strength won't prevent him from being a weakside shot blocker, or a challenger/shot affecter when playing post defense in the paint, or especially out-jumping guys for defensive boards. I mean, Sam wasn't exactly this strong lower body guy either when he came in.

Well, the best way to neutralize a lanky shot blocker when he's defending his man is to engage him in the post. as a weakside shot blocker, I agree, he'll be effective.

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eddies' heady's reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 19 at 10:45
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I agree, but even guys with strength can be neutralized that way too, so I don't consider that such a negative if they possess good leaping ability.

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Steve V reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 18 at 11:02
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I think it depends on what team he lands with. He could certainly be a starter in Orlando with Dwight Howard backing him up in the post, and his offensive prowess and shot blocking ability could make up for his post defense.

Disagree with initial point. Bench press ability translates. Ball off rim, up for grabs, all other things being equal, possession goes to the 15 rep-per over the 9 rep-per. Upper body strength matters a lot in NBA ... league's all-time rebounding list is replete with examples.

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Court_visioN reply to Ty Game on Jun 18 at 19:41
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well the "all other things equal" caveat makes it kind of obvious. obviously if everything else was the same but one had more upper body strength you'd give the edge to the stronger guy. but if you have a guy with strong core and lower body and match him up against a guy with a strong upper body, I feel like the lower body guy (sounds weird) would win (almost) every time.

Disagree 1000%

Strength is important. Lower body strength moreso, as you establish and hold position with your lower body. In terms of upper body strength, bench press is a terrible indication, as players with long arms have always been at a disadvantage.

Tyson Chandler rep'd 2 times at his combine. He had a 26.6% dreb% this year. Al Jefferson rep'd 3 times. Dwight Howard only 7. Nick Collison only 8, DeAndre Jordan only 8, Joakim Noah only 12. But Chris Wilcox pushed his way through 20 reps, Channing Frye 19, and Kwame Brown 17.

Who's upper body is stronger, Dwight Howard or Channing Frye ? Who's developed into the better rebounder ?

Lower body strength is more important than upper body, and bench press is a poor way to gauge upper body strength.

Add all the zeroes you want; it's emotion, not substance.

What's the standard gauge of upper body strength then, besides eyeballs?

My comment wasn't excluding the importance of "pins" and trunk strength. Lane play isn't for the weak, in any respect of body or mind.

I could cherrypick support, like you did, for my converse position if I had the full list of current NBA weightlifters' rep specs handy.

At least we agree that general physical strength matters.

That's funny, since I'm the only one who provided any substance to my post. You were the one making generalities "bench press ability translates" without backing them up.

And, actually, we all do have access to the combine numbers. At DraftExpress, we're nice enough to make those searchable and sortable.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=14

Me being me, I'm always intrigued by the offensive guy. For me that means Burks, and to a lesser extent, Donatas. I feel pretty confident that Burks is going to be a much better scorer than Turner in the NBA. Of course, I agree that our frontcourt is in dire straits, both now and especially in the long term. But I don't know how great any of the options at #16 are. I can see the argument, though, that we're better off picking a rotational big, as we need to find 3 or 4 of them, than someone who at best can be a second scorer on a contender.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 18 at 11:05
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That's a heck of an argument though. I can see we need a rotational big too but I would not be upset in the slightest if we picked a scorer of the ball. The offensive guys intrigue me more too, no disrespect to defense though. If Burks or Donatas fell that far, it would make it interesting, sort of like when Jrue and Lawson and Collison were there two years ago.

Yeah, it really is the better argument, that we need 3 or 4 big men so we better draft one. Whereas if you pick Burks, that still leaves us with no truly bigtime scorer, and a bunch of second, third and fourth options (Holiday, Young, Lou, and, optimistically, Burks and Turner falling into the second/third category, Iguodala being more of a fourth option), which then begs the question, where are you even going to play your superstar scorer, now that positions 1-3 are - hopefully - filled with Jrue, Burks/Turner, and Andre. That said, isn't there some argument for picking the best player because, even if you don't keep him, he'll have the most value? If we had picked Favors and the Nets had taken Turner, the Nets would be looking at a really bleak future right now.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 18 at 12:27
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I'm not sure about if you pick the best player he'll have the most value because your value and best player is probably different than other teams.

So are we looking at a really bleak future since we were the ones that took Turner?

No, because we have non-Turner talent. The Nets, outside of Favors, had Brook Lopez, who's developing into a range-less Bargnani.

And I don't really agree with that. It's true that our most value is different from other teams, but if you just go for the biggest talent, then - assuming you get the question of who's the biggest talent right, a big assumption - you should end up with the player with the most value. So for example, I think there's a very good chance that a year from now, Derrick Williams will have the second most value of players in the rookie class, after Irving. He's just better than players like Kanter, Kemba, Knight. Now, Minnesota has absolutely no place for him - they have Beasley and Love, and Johnson. But so what? They should play him and then either trade him or trade Beasley. Preferably trading Beasley, as he'll never be that good.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 18 at 13:51
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Gotcha. I agree with this premise when talking about the top guys in the draft ala D. Williams or Irving, but my premise was us picking as low as #16 and trying to assess who has better value or the better talent. It's a crapshoot down that far and other teams' views certainly differ, hence why guys fall.

I think there's a pretty good chance that Burks will put up numbers a lot earlier in his career than Morris or Faried or Vucevic. Though his jump shot really is frightening. Far more so than Turner's, even.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 11:08
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Can you expand on that jump shot frightening thing? Only saw him around 4 times last year and as I remember nothing stood out to me, but may have just missed or overlooked it.

I don't know if they'll make a move, I doubt they will but as you wrote over at sbnation, it's maybe time to make one. They've got a couple bigger issues looming over them, the pending CBA expiration and negotiations to sell the team. I expect those weight heavy and are 'unusual' events that would influence an already difficult trade to make fairly.

Draft Interest - I guess more, but that's because the draft is muddled, even at the top, it's not good because there's not 'separating players'. I also think there's more interest because the sixers made the playoffs. I mean a couple years ago they drafted Speights at 16, was everyone super interested then?

It's more interesting because there's more to talk about, but that's because of the weakness of the draft and the sixers position in it.

I don't know the rules for re-signing a guy -but any team that signs a restricted free agent before the new CBA is in place is just dumb unless he's a kevin durant type player. It's rather clear whatever comes through the owners are going to get some concessions, so I don't think not re-signing Thad yet means anything. Thad's going to get too much money from someone, probably the sixers, fortunately with the new CBA, there will be more things in place to prevent teams from their own stupidity (which is what these things are mostly about, salary caps, contract restrictions, preventing teams from their own stupidity cause they listen to agents way too much)

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eddies' heady's on Jun 18 at 12:46
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Touching on something Tray mentioned above and something others have mentioned regarding Turner stepping in to replace Iguodala - it's interesting that many comments since the season ended have frequently mentioned that Jrue / Turner are our immediate and I would assume long term cornerstones.

But why is this the case / mindset? Is it just blind hope / faith?

Because Jodie Meeks started nearly the whole year at the 2, and assuming for the moment that Andre will still be here, why isn't the core spoken about in terms of Jrue / Jodie? I mean, he started and brought a much needed element to the open-court (speed) and half-court (shooting, spacing) success.

He and Turner are roughly the same age. He was the starter and there's no reason to think he won't still be entrenched there if/when the season starts. Yet, he's hardly ever mentioned?

Because Jodie Meeks is a one-dimensional 3-point shooter who was, far and away, the worst starting shooting guard on any playoff team. He's Craig Hodges, he'll maybe win a 3-point contest, but you don't want him on the floor more than 10 minutes a game if you're actually thinking of contending.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 18 at 13:26
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No question that Turner's potential is greater than Meeks's. Even if all the worst fears about Turner come true, he'll still probably be a better player than Meeks, though it could be close.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 18 at 13:55
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So basically, we're going to cast aside the next Kyle Korver and focus on a lesser (at the moment) but better rebounding Willie Green?

Kyle Korver isnt a player you build around. Kyle Korver is a bench player, a good one, but a bench player, and the sixers have now found him (twice it seems)

If you think Jodie Meeks upside is Kyle Korver and that he's a core piece for the future, you have low hopes for the upside of a team.

you really think Jodie Meeks is better than Evan Turner? And you really think Evan Turner is no better than Willie Green with a little more rebounding?

you're just playing, right?

Nope- he's thought evan turner was a bust from the moment he was drafted.

True, but saying that we should be discussing a long-term Holiday/Meeks backcourt seems extreme even for eddie's heady's. We all have dislikes for certain players (I can't stand Lou, for example), but this dude has really gone off the deep end if he thinks Meeks has a better future than Turner.

I suppose at the moment if you just look at his non-rebounding stats, one could see the Turner/Green comparison, but anyone who watches the guy can see that he's potentially capable of a lot more than Green ever was. As to Meeks, he was (a) a much worse shooter in college than Korver, and (b) is, today, not as good a shooter as Korver. There really are a ton of guys running around in the NBA who can shoot the three at 39%. Especially if it's all they can do. Besides, I don't recall anyone mentioning casting Meeks aside - definitely on this team he's a role player of substantial value.

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Kyle reply to Tray on Jun 18 at 17:08
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i agree, he isn't cast aside. he just is what he is. a three point shooter. he's Eddie House at best.

but god damn, Jodie can not finish at the rim to save his life. Love his hustle, though.

Excellent point. For a 3-point specialist, 39% is pretty bad, considering he does nothing else (can't defend, can't pass, can't dribble, can't finish). Guys like that are a dime a dozen in the Camden street courts.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 18 at 20:15
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Dime a dozen in the Camden street courts is a bit of a stretch, but he's definitely a player in the Eddie House/Damon Jones mold, without the ability to even kind of play point, and without their egomania.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 11:22
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Well, not that anyone has cast him aside, but it is often mentioned that Jrue/Turner are the backcourt of the future, or whatever. What I'm wondering is if Jodie Meeks stays on this team, does Turner ever beat him out to start at the 2, particularly with Doug Collins coaching this team?

If he doesn't, then it's not a stretch to speak in terms of Jrue/Jodie being the backcourt of the future. I mean, we're talking about basically a bit role player that played the 2 position the least of all the positions when he was on the court this year, yet it's bandied about rather often by some that he and Jrue are the future. I see a lot of abstract there, which is why I asked is it just blind hope/faith at this point.

No, it is a stretch to talk about Jrue/Jodie being the backcourt of the future because Jodie will never be good enough to be a starting two on a contending team. It's not like he's Anthony Morrow, he's one of those players that good teams usually have 2 or 3 of, usually coming off their bench.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 13:05
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Fair. Then it's just as much of a stretch to talk about Jrue/Turner being the backcourt of the future because of the abstract I mentioned above. There seems to be a consensus of "known" with Jodie, whereas Turner seems to still linger out there as an unknown. Not sure how it can be anything but hope/faith when labeling Turner a core member for the future.

The opinions on Jodie seem to be capped out and finalized, where with Turner there seems to be much thought that he has this room to get better. I'm not sure I agree with either train of thought.

Yeah, there's an actual chance that Jrue/Turner could be the backcourt of the future and there's really not very much chance that Jrue/Meeks could, unless Meeks suddenly learns to do anything besides being an above-average three-point shooter. It's not as if Turner's some scrub we're irrationally hopeful about, he was the best player in college basketball and has a lot of skills that ought to translate to the NBA. Good players having bad rookie seasons isn't unheard of.

Thinking Turner could replace Iguodala when Monta Ellis inevitably comes here is hoping. He's not ready to shoulder that kind of load and that's not his true position. That's blind faith.

Thinking Turner has potential to be a better all-around player that Meeks and a starter for this team alongside Jrue is far from it.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Jun 19 at 11:27
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Well if it's far from blind faith, then what is it? There's nothing concrete here to go off of. The guy played the 2 less than any position this year when he was on the court.

Being a 2 or 3 offensively is really not much of a difference. You are playing off the ball and you role depends on your skill set as well as the guy next to you. Being a 2 next to Carmelo is pretty similar to playing the 3 next to Kobe. I wouldn't get caught up in the "He can't shoot, he has to play the three" argument I hear on WIP a lot.

Like I said though, Turner has the ability to be a plus defender at that spot with his length. A lot of his problems this year were "rookie mistakes" (fouling jumpshooters, getting caught on picks) and he was still a little bit better on that end than Jodie (Team's defensive rating was better, and his Defensive Win Shares were a little higher. Not taken completely literally, but it's something to look at). If he cleans that up, than he can be an above average guy on that end, with the ability to guard threes.

I don't really see Jodie developing into much more on that end. I thought he did a great job this year and he busts his butt, but he's limited. As a 7th/8th man would be the optimal role for Jodie.

I'd be open to the idea of trading down in the 1st round. The players that seem to be slotted for the middle of the 1st don't really fit the needs of the 76ers roster. See if a team that wants a specific piece would move up to #16. The bigs seem to be slotting in at the bottom of the round.

Maybe trading down to #24 w/ OKC and adding Aldrich or Mullens.

Or trading #16 to CHI for #28 & #30.

Just heard back from Courtney Witte via email.

"Donatas (Motiejunas) will be in. Klay (Thompson) will not."

So Thompson apparently doesn't want to visit because he thinks he'll be gone by No. 16.

Also, a projected first-rounder cancelled on the Sixers Saturday for Sunday's workout. I haven't been able to find out who it was.

Blog: Sixers still working to get first-rounders in for workouts:

http://ow.ly/5kYg6

15 players to be in the Green Room. Bismack is not one of them (unless I read incorrectly.) Maybe that means he drops :) Doubt it, but it's a slow news day.

I would like to get back to a point that some have made about how the heat played against us vs. the other teams they played. I watched a few games in (not very much of the boston series)every series. I saw the same team. Boston won one gamme with a injured Rondo. The bulls won one game with pretty much a healthy roster. Sixers won one game with Andre and Lou being injured not at 100%.
How far off are the sixers. With that being said who at pick 16 in this draft helps us win one or two more games.
Is it Faried's rebounding and D. Hamilton's ability to score off the ball. Markief's all around game good but unspectacular.

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Kyle reply to emtmess on Jun 18 at 16:16
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I like the idea of drafting Faried. He can be an immediate contributor. You know what you are getting and he doesn't disrupt the offense.

Whether people like it or not, we are banking on Holiday and Turner taking their games to another level. If this does not happen in the next year or two, we are a ways away from contending.

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emtmess reply to Kyle on Jun 18 at 16:30
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Teams can change there direction quickly in only a few seasons for the better and for the worse. Under the right conditions you can go from your best player wanting out of town (Anthony and Pierce) and take two different directions. Both teams are better off but went about it in different ways. If Jrue and Evan do not get any better than what they are know where does that put us? Not really that far off from where we are now. Now if Jrue plays worse then we are in trouble.

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Kyle reply to emtmess on Jun 18 at 17:00
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Yeah, I hear you. But, that opportunity is absolutely unknown. Sure, if we can land Dwight Howard we become immediate contenders.

Jrue was a prize, but the number 2 overall pick shouldn't be a flier. You should be hoping that he can be a difference maker on the court.

Where we are right now is still a ways away from contending for a championship. Again, we want these young players to take a step into the upper echelon of talent. Until we either land that player, or one or two of our guys become that player, you can count on .500 basketball.

In the NBA you need at least one bonafide superstar and mix of very high quality role players.

Just like earlier, if you think you are going to build your team with Jodie Meeks as a cornerstone. Your team will be garbage. Unless you like first round exits and hardly making the playoffs. Then you'll be great.

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eddies' heady's reply to Kyle on Jun 19 at 11:48
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It was apparently misunderstood what I was saying earlier. I wasn't saying that Jodie was a cornerstone. I was saying how can so many safely assume that Turner is?

Jrue's shown enough to say that he's a given. Turner hasn't. Jodie started most of the year. Turner became Andre's backup at the 3 as the season went along. Aren't we assuming a little too much to say that Turner is going to overtake Jodie at the 2? He couldn't do it last year, and Doug has publicly stated many times how much Jodie's shooting did for spacing in the halfcourt.

And as you mentioned above, fans are banking on Holiday and Turner taking their games to another level. To me, when you are banking on that, as you mentioned later, you're asking for mediocrity and .500 ball. The chances of those two things happening are pretty close to none.

With that said, to me, at this point, I can only safely say the same thing about Turner that Tray said above about Meeks - he's just a role player of value, but not substantial yet.

I really think that worst case, Turner ends up averaging, in starter's minutes, something like 12, 5 and 4 on not very good shooting. In which case, he'd be a bit more valuable than Meeks.

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Tom Moore on Jun 18 at 17:47
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Guard from Purdue (E’Twaun Moore) is no longer working out for Sixers Sunday. He was replaced by Paris Horne from St. John's. Moore is projected to be a middle second-round pick in some mock drafts; Moore and two of the three other guys working out Sunday (Temple's Lavoy Allen and Kentucky big man Josh Harrellson) aren't expected to be drafted. Kentucky guard DeAndre Liggins is a mid-second, according to the mocks.

Hmmm has anyone else noticed that @jrue_holiday11 has been tweeting about spending time with @dwighthoward an awful lot lately...? Maybe we should all tweet at those two and say YES DUDES YOU NEED TO BE TEAMMATES HERE!

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Rich reply to das411 on Jun 19 at 0:45
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Have seen that, Jrue giving Dwight a lot of dap.

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Kyle reply to das411 on Jun 19 at 0:45
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if we land Dwight Howard..................

Even Jrue likes to name drop :)

Oh those whacky timberwolves

The Minnesota Timberwolves, meanwhile, won't let Williams or Irving slip beyond No. 2. Sources with knowledge of the situation say that if the Cavaliers pick Irving at No. 1, the Timberwolves will take Williams at No. 2, and don't plan on trading Michael Beasley or Anthony Randolph.

If the Cavs were to select Williams, the Timberwolves would take Irving at No. 2, even with the impending arrival of Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio. The Timberwolves would hold onto the Irving asset and likely command a number of suitors. Reserve point guard Jonny Flynn then would be on the trade block.

Anyone have a take on how plugged in this guy is:

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=750

A ton of info/speculation in this 2 page article. A small bit:

"The Houston Rockets are very high on Donatas Motiejunas and he appears to be at the top of their draft board. They were the first NBA team to bring him in for a workout in this country, as he visited Houston on Friday. The Sixers are also very high on Motiejunas but they'll likely have to trade up to get him. Motiejunas will not get past the Sixers at No. 16."

"The biggest surprise not invited to the green room is Bismack Biyombo, who could go as high as No. 5 to the Raptors or No. 8 to the Pistons. If he gets past the Pistons, though, he could slide to the Sixers at No. 16."

BTW, here is my new fearless draft prediction.

Sixers do not trade. They pick Tristan Thompson and Justin Holiday at #16 and #50.

I then try and talk myself into the Thompson pick- given he is young and athletic enough to potentially for a good combo with Jrue. As for Justin, he remains a Sixer for his entire 12 year NBA career, and is a fan favorite off the bench, eventual becoming an assistant to his mentor, head coach Aaron Mckie.

Tristan thompson isn't a terrible get imo.

No, as I said, I would talk myself into it. He at least has the raw tools to be a nice P&R athlete.

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deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 13:03
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An interesting comment by Thad Young on the news at noon today. He said I hope coach Collins can work some magic and get a big man that can score the ball so I can go back to playing my natural position.

If Montiejunis comes here and Iggy gets traded could the plan be to start Thad at the s.f. spot and let Montiejunis take over Thad's bench scoring role at the combo forward spot.

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deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 13:15
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Remember the discussions on here about who has more value, Iggy at 12 million or Melo at 21 to 23 million, well at what value could Thad be signed that he could be close to Iggy in value when compared to Iggy at 15 million.

Thad, being an undersized power forward off the bench is your natural position. We all remember your days on the wing; they weren't that pretty.

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deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 13:45
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I sort of agree with that but maybe Collins sees differently. As for what Thad said, could this be all part of the negotiations between he and the team .

Moti, Thad and Ellis in the starting lineup. If that isn't enough to turn me into a Nets fan, nothing is.

Well, the Nets would probably be better than the sixers

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Stan reply to Brian on Jun 19 at 14:43
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What about a Kaman-Thad-Turner-Jimmer-Ellis lineup?

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jun 19 at 14:46
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His comment surprised me a bit. Collins seemed to put Thad in a great spot last year. If Thad won't be happy in that role and wants starters money than keep Iggy and draft Thad's replacement.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jun 19 at 15:04
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Just maybe in the long run, Motiejunas alongside a strong defensive center could work out. We do have enough rebounding on the perimeter that we can, with a good center, afford one bad rebounding big if he's offensively good enough.

I guess I don't see how talking about wanting to change positions is a negotiation tool. I would think that if you want more money, you pretend to be really happy with where the team's playing you so they're more inclined to bring you back. I could understand his saying that he plans on being a starter and is therefore owed starter's money, but how could he ever start at the three here? Only if we move Iguodala, as I think we've clearly given up on playing him at the two.

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deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 14:56
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Sixers just drafted Sammy D. on NBA t.v., a solid selection at number 26. If anyone wants to watch them pick E.Turner again [Eddies] that draft is on at 630 .

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eddies' heady's reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 17:35
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Ha, don't torture me man, it's Father's Day...I'll make sure to start the charcoal shortly before then ;)

Video: St. John's guard Paris Horne on breaking rim with two-handed dunk during Sunday workout for Sixers:

http://ow.ly/5lki5

Video: Temple power forward Lavoy Allen on working out again for Sixers and Thursday's NBA Draft:

http://ow.ly/5lkJZ

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Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 18:22
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Blog: Horne after breaking rim during Sunday's Sixers workout: 'My bad':

http://bit.ly/lcFVSO

(with video and photo)

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Tray reply to Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 18:50
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Why do teams waste so much time working out players they'll never draft? And then making condescending comments about them like, "what a nice story he can tell his kids when he's done playing [in Europe] - he tore the rim down"? Like yeah, what a nice story, once upon a time in an NBA workout I never should have been given, I tore the rim down. Never did get drafted though...

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deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 19:03
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I hope they are setting the groundwork for possible undrafted free agents with guys like J. Harrelson and X. Silas being brought in.

On C.B.S. Sports channel is a good draft show with none other than E.Jordan as one of its panel.

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johnrosz reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 19:19
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scouts are cynical by nature from what I've seen and read. I hate that tone you're referring to as well, the DX twitter guy absolutely rips kids apart for their interview sessions.

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Tray reply to johnrosz on Jun 19 at 20:01
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The ripping kids apart might be more okay with me; it's not the same thing, anyway. I just don't get doing a pointless workout and then saying that, hey, at least he has a nice story he can tell his kids. Here the guy is thinking that he might have actually impressed the team and we're just like, "you'll always be able to remember that one time you brought down the rim in an NBA practice facility."

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Rich reply to Tray on Jun 19 at 22:43
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They always like to give local guys a workout. My friend's older brother got one a few years ago out of Bucknell. I think most of the players like it to be honest to be looked at for an NBA team. If you think the team is wasting its time, fine. I think the players that will probably go undrafted appreciate the workout though.

It's not like they don't have the time :)

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Tray reply to Rich on Jun 19 at 23:52
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I think we're giving those players false hopes. Some of them, anyway; others must realize.

I accidentally ripped down a rim in college (only problem was that I missed the dunk, but maybe that was because the rim came off.) I'm sure it was too loose, because I'm not about to be confused for Daryl Dawkins. Now I can't even dunk, so it is a good memory. Anyhow, its not the same as breaking a backboard.

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress/status/82057219851563008

So - the warriors um - kind of over value Ellis?

Even the Sixers can come up with a better trade offer than that. :)

Orlando probably wants to hold onto Dwight as long as possible, but would they consider a Howard, Arenas, Turkoglu for Iguodala, Brand, Lou, Speights, Brackins deal? I'm sure they could do a little better as far as talent, but I don't think they could possibly do better financially.

This trade is a lose-lose for both sides. If Dwight doesn't win a championship during the half season he's here, he'll walk and we'll be left with Arenas' massive contract. Also, I think an Andrew Bynum swap would be a better deal for ORL.

If Thad gets a nice contract, a Thad, Evan, Bismack package might seem more pleasing to ORL. Is Dwight a FA in summer 2012 or 13?

I thought the prereq to any Howard deal was taking on at least one of their bad contracts, but I don't know, maybe I'm just misreading the info out there.

Yea, but I don't think any team has the assets to take Howard's 17 million plus Gilbert's 20 million and still have a championship team. Last season I thought that the team that acquired Melo would also take Harrington. Off the top of my head I can't think of any bad contracts that were taken along in any blockbuster trades - Shaq, Gasol, Allen, Garnett, Melo, Deron..

So are you saying that a lineup of Jrue, Turner, Hedo, Thad, and Howard and a bench of Arenas, Meeks, Hawes, and Faried couldn't at least CONTEND for a championship? Oh my goodness.

I don't think they can win. Sure they might go 6 games against Miami, but I don't think that team is good enough to beat them. A Howard-Bass-Turk-Richardson-Nelson wasn't good enough to beat ATL. I don't think a Howard-Thad-Turk-Turner-Jrue lineup is much better. -And if he doesn't win a championship or got the finals, I doubt he'll resign here.

This is accurate, but the problem is no team is going to take on Arenas's contract without Howard signing a contract extension as part of the trade. And it's unlikely he'll want to sign an extension with any team that has Arenas on it, because Arenas prevents the team from getting any other good players.

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Ricky reply to GoSixers on Jun 19 at 23:15
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I don't know whats more appealing, Andris Beidrins or Monte Ellis.

Story: Sixers finally about to take a look at some first-rounders:

http://bit.ly/koKuxb

Motiejunas is coming Monday, Faried and supposedly other projected first-rounders Tuesday.

For Jonas fans, some interviews with draftexpress, along with workout video of our future power forward, Motiejunas. The second interview begins with the heavily accented line, "you ask me some questions?"

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/ValanciunasMotiejunas-InterviewWorkout-Videos-3758/

Jonas is the next Noah, except he makes 9 out of every 10 free throws. :)

He's just behind Biyombo on my list, way ahead of the other international guys (and Kanter).

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Tray reply to Brian on Jun 20 at 1:05
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Honestly, every year, you just rank the prospects in order of how defensively touted they are and/or in inverse order of how much offensive skill they have. I just want to know at what point you would be willing to draft a player who can actually make a turnaround jumper in an empty gym; is there a critical mass of defensive athletes we must reach before we can start drafting players with skills, even if they're not players with Nowitzki-level skills? (Of course, even Dirk wasn't Dirk before he was drafted; he was an unfinished Euro with lots of question marks, like Kanter or Motiejunas are now.) Or is the plan to fill the roster with athletic freaks from top to bottom and hold opposing teams to zero? I don't necessarily disagree that Jonas will be better than Kanter, but it's just so predictable that you would think so, simply because Jonas fits your raw athletic defender with a motor type and Kanter rings your finesse player alarm bells.

Well, since you have my thought process down, can you explain Stephen Curry and Kevin Love? The two guys I really wanted in their drafts.

I don't have a problem with skilled players if those skills are something that I think will translate. Bigs who shoot a bunch of jumpers or use rudimentary post moves and size advantages to "dominate" crap competition don't do it for me, sorry.

So Cooney included this in a column he wrote about how trading Iguodala is a good idea:

"At times, Iguodala seemed detached from what Collins was trying to implement, often bringing his teammates down with him. When the University of Arizona product was engaged, he clearly showed that he was the best all-around player on the team."

I'd love an example of something Collins asked that Iguodala didn't do. His usage rate was way down, he played the best defense of his career. He stepped into the point-forward role Collins asked of him. Collins put a premium on possessions, Iguodala put together an amazing assist/turnover ratio.

This strikes me as unsubstantiated crap, which isn't really all that shocking. I guess he sees what gets the eyeballs from Kate and he's just following suit. No sweat off his back, since he's pretty much said he doesn't like Iguodala.

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Chunky Soup reply to Brian on Jun 20 at 0:49
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What, what does this guy mean by engaged? Iguodala only played the entire year injured and shut down pretty much eveyone in his path, and was by far the most productive player on the Sixers. If that isn't enough then maybe he should go someplace where he is actually appreciated, and Cooney can go trade for Brandon Roy and see how that works out.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 20 at 1:27
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he doesn't dance with Jrue before games or during halftime, remember?

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 20 at 1:44
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That's a load of crap.

I think you're too hard on Kate, but this line from Cooney is definite player-hating. I did notice Iggy periodically staring up into the ceiling as he jogged down the court, as if he'd rather be anywhere else (especially during the 3-13 start), but I don't think that had anything to do with "what Collins why trying to implement," nor do I think it "brought his teammates down." Pretty sure Cooney made that stuff up.

Re: Iggy, if Biyombo is truly falling in the draft, I would call every team in front of us on draft day and offer Iggy straight up for the pick and contracts to make it work. I'd love to walk out of this draft with Biyombo and Vucevic. And as a pipe dream (pipe dream because Doug Collins will never trade LouWill), I would also offer LouWill to every team with a 1st-rounder and draft Jordan Hamilton.

In my unrealistic dream world that will never happen, we grab Hamilton (SF), Biyombo (PF/C), and Vucevic (C) to go with Holiday/Turner for a super-young core of 5. And we have the veteran anchor Brand, with Thad and my boy Hawes. God I love this idea, and I know it has zero chance of fruition.

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Dan reply to stoned81 on Jun 20 at 17:11
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I want to trade up for Bismack (without giving up Igoudala) and then trade Evan to get a wing that can score efficiently.


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