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Reactions to the Vucevic Pick

After listening to Chad Ford I'm reminded of Mike Mamula

A guy who didn't impress in actual games who impresses with workout numbers.

Oh I'm excited

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Court_visioN on Jun 24 at 11:12
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personally I'm more peeved about the second round pick than the vucevic pick. At least take a flyer on someone with some sort of potential. The vucevic pick I'm not thrilled about either...

Anyone with a good understanding of combine stats - how is Vucevic's lateral movement? I'm more concerned about Vucevic's ability to play the pick and roll defensively than I am with him finishing inside on offense.

He had the second-worst lane agility score of anyone drafted last night.

and by score, I mean time.

That doesn't always mean a whole lot, sometimes the numbers don't make sense (Justin Holiday was worse than Vuc, for example), but I'd say it doesn't exactly bode well. To me, he's slow footed and can't jump.

But Ed said he's going to learn to play above the rim and he's going to work on his 3 point shooting

so it's all good

He's very bad laterally. That's more my concern with him defensively than either explosion or lower body strength.

But THE THREES?

Above the RIM?

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Court_visioN reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 24 at 11:52
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damn. i'm guessing this isn't something that can really be improved...

Only somewhat related but at the end Eddie Jordan talks about deffense kinda funny after his coaching stint here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7b96oEYCO4

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Court_visioN reply to emtmess on Jun 24 at 11:44
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"defense, eh, a little bit suspect.."
i laughed on that line, i'm sure you did as well haha.

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emtmess reply to Court_visioN on Jun 24 at 11:53
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Yeah the irony of "that guy" saying that...nice.

Vucevic is a career backup IMO, Hamilton, Singleton or even Farie would've been better fits. With Utah taking Kanter someone in that front court has to go and with Kirilenko probably leaving as a free agent maybe we could get Jefferson. Vucevic makes Jefferson seem like Lebron athletically. Preferably we'd be able to get Favors somehow but I doubt Utah would trade him.

What do the sixers have besides Iguodala Utah would want for Jefferson?

Would you trade Iguodala for Jefferson?

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Steve V reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 11:41
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If were resigned to the fact that were trading him then yea I'd do it because of everything we've heard I think he's the best player.

Except he's a crap player, and while the sixers 'are' resigned to the fact maybe, I (not part of the sixers, not part of the 'were') am not resigned to the fact that you trade him just to trade him, nor do you trade him for a guy who doesn't defend.

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Steve V reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 12:22
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That's why I said if they're definitely trading him Jefferson is a better option than Odom Kaman or Ellis, I don't want to trade Iguodala at all I'm a huge fan of his.

Kaman is preferable to me of that group, his contract expires after this season.

Plus, Kaman would complete the 'set' :)

I want no part of Al Jefferson. Absolutely none. He's the anti-Iguodala, basically. He's an efficient offensive player pretty much only because he doesn't turn the ball over (led the league in TO rate), and he rebounds pretty well, but he absolutely murders you on the defensive end. Kills you. The Jazz had a 111 defensive efficiency rating with Jefferson on the floor, 103 with him on the bench, and that's no coincidence. There's a reason he's never been to the playoffs.

Interesting how the centers that we have acquired since Doug Collins came over has been:

Spencer Hawes
Darius Songalia
Tony Battie
Nikola Vucevic

assuming that the underclassmen come out, that draft looks alot better at the top then this one

Not a lot of size. I guess we should look for the tallest, slowest guy in the second round and write down his name. He'll be our pick at #15.

I thought Dr Rivers kid was the presumptive #1?

So are you saying you couldn't find any positive reactions to this selection? I would love to see you be so unbiased for once.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20234

1 against the many negative comments of more authoritative sources than the orlando magic beat writer for hoopsworld, who gives Thorn the benefit of the doubt because he drafted Michael Jordan.

Added the link above.

And of the other stories I linked to, only the one I wrote and the one from Liberty Ballers were negative.

Actually - what was said was this

I've been looking for more reaction pieces, but I honestly think no one cares.

Not sure how that becomes 'you're biased and suck' but just that the only reactions at all were from sixers bloggers.

The sixers are not a significant NBA team, they were doubly insignificant last night, there's a lot more interesting things in last nights draft to write about then drafting a work out warrior and a guy who won't make the nba roster

It's biased because all you have to do use Google and several stories about this pick come up. More positive/optimistic than negative actually. The positive story was so littlementioned that I missed it. Those type stories got brushed to the side while the story from C. Ford, J Smallwood and LibertyBallers werent.

Here anouther:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/746750-nba-draft-2011-how-nikola-vucevic-fits-on-the-philadelphia-76ers

Well if you want to put stock in bleacher report and use it to support your argument that intelligent people think it's a good pick, go right ahead.

OK, linking to Bleacher Report is a bannable offense.

And you're missing the point. Smallwood's story wasn't negative, he said he liked the pick. Fagan, Cooney and Moore didn't really give an opinion either way.

Bleacher Report isn't worth linking to.

Except for philly.com :)

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emtmess reply to KellyDad on Jun 24 at 12:11
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I think Brian is pretty fair. You are not going to agree with someone all the time that does not mean they did not evaulate the point/player/whatever in a fair and unbiased manner.

Vucevic is going to wear #8, according to a pic from Mike Preston.

damn, i was hoping for 01

I was hoping for a negative integer.

I was hoping he'd choose i

It would be fitting

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 11:45
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00 flipped sideways?

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Court_visioN on Jun 24 at 12:11
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live post draft presser on csnphilly.com right now.

Can't watch those anymore, the softball questions drive me nuts - they're on the way out CHALLENGE them for gods sake

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Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 12:23
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not only that i think these guys are ridiculously boring to watch. lavoy allen cracked a few people up when they asked him what he was doing during the draft and he just said "i was just by myself"

So can Nikola ever be as good as Songolia was in his prime?

according to Dei Lynam last year, Songaila was a great get for Thorn. The guy shot 50% from the floor!

Wait, she didn't actually say that, did she ?

verbatim.

I found it.

1:34: Comment From Brian
In your book, is toughness more important than being good at basketball? Because both Songaila and Nocioni are just horrible basketball players.


1:39 Dei
You must never have watched either play. Both have been in the league for years. Songila averages 19 miinutes and shoots 50 percent from the floor 85 from the line over his seven years. Nocioni more then 11 points in 25 minutes for career not to mention his contributions over the years to his national team. They aren't all-stars but they can play

That's awful. She should lose her creds for that. Reporters have a responsibility to be truthful to their readers, and either she should have her creds revoked because she's trying to protect the Sixers, or she should have them revoked for not watching basketball and knowing the subject she covers.

Interesting, under-reported fact from last night's draft.

Darryl Morey has traded for probably the two worst lottery picks in the past ten years in the span of five months.

Hey - I kept asking if the flynn trade took some shine off of morey and people kept saying that flynn was just a throw in and that the euro was the target :)

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deepsixersuede on Jun 24 at 12:36
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Brian, does this pick make you feel any better about Iggy staying? If Hamilton was picked would the writing have been on the wall?

Collins has been consistant on the type of bigs he prefers and hopefully it is because our lack of wing shooters that are here and him wanting to keep his perimeter core intact.

The sixers are no better (or worse) than they were when the season ended. They're still first round fodder at best, and added nothing in the draft to improve where they're weak.

How can anyone feel better about anything? (And really, all the Iguodala stuff was bull floated by click whores, I don't believe any of it was ever close to happening). The sixers are still a rudderless ship.

I'll feel better when they're sold and the new people come in - tell us they have a plan and then make moves that make sense

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 12:47
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If he plays with a higher motor than Hawes and has a high I.Q. defensively than I think they have improved. We were good defensively in spight of Hawes and with Vucevic possibly replacing Spieghts it may improve slightly on last years team.

Except I see no reliable sources of information that make any of your 'maybes' and 'ifs' anything more than wishful thinking and hoping.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

As of now - the sixers aren't better - they just added another white stiff who will play before speights but who performs no better than speights

I don't think the draft really has anything to do with whether Iguodala stays or goes. Two different front offices will make the decision. Thorn/Stefanski for the draft, Levien for Iguodala.

Can't believe the guy has a vertical four inches worse than Hawes... This guy doesn't even have the excuse of multiple knee surgeries right?

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deepsixersuede on Jun 24 at 12:41
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Derek, what undrafted guys should the sixers target, in your opinion, and is there a young p.f. in the league that can supply some athletism here?

What makes you think the sixers are going to target undrafted guys?

Assuming the sixers sign hawes back and young back and sign their two free agents they currently have 12 contracts for next year. 13 if they sign the stiff from temple

Not really sure why people think that this ownership as is is going to look for more pieces to sign but not play (or does anyone remember craig brackins)?

Factor in signing a vet 'big man' who might actually be able to defend - and they're up to 14

I don't see them wasting money on a guy who will never play -

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 12:51
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Good points; I wonder if Spieghts is let go for a future #2 or cash.

They'll probably bring in some undrafted guys for camp, if they ever have a camp. Usually it's just local guys. Last year, that guy from Duke wouldn't even come in, forget his name.

8, center Walt Bellamy's #. A good sign. 20,941 pts (20.1), 14,241 rbs (13.7). Nik Vucevic, "The Swiss-Belgian-Montenegren (Just You) Watch."

If the head coach (#2 in COY balloting, 38 yrs of NBA affiliations/interest) is "incredibly thrilled" by the selection, and the GM (who as a '63-'64 rookie averaged 14.4 for the battling Baltimore Bullets, with Walt Bellamy as teammate) approved it, how can fans question the wisdom contained within last night's #16 draft position decision? These two guys KNOW what they're doing. Didn't the 14-wins improvement tell you that?

No the 14 win improvement is only over valued by those who don't pay enough attention to what the sixers were before Jordan was hired or are so stuck in the past they talk about dead guys like they still play in th league

Ouch! You're mean and quasi-modern. And "Bells" lives, I'm happy to inform.

You're happy to be the sixers mouth piece - that's not informing :)

I get the logic behind saying things like this, I really do. The only thing I don't understand is why you read blogs. I mean, just read the press releases the Sixers send out if you think the decision makers are beyond reproach.

Never saw the kid play so I'm withholding judgement. Sixers need a solid body inside; he appears to be at least that. He may be the next Craig Raymond, Al Henry or Dana Lewis, but Collins and Thorn have earned the benefit of a little time. Had Stefanski been the driver - different story.

This may be a bit of cherry picking stats but since I can not see game tape to see who gaurded who I kinda have to guess. Against opp. with first round 4/5 type players this is what Vucevic did (also included tour. game against VCU)

fgm/fga c3pa/c3pm ftm/fta or/dr a-st-blk-to-fouls

Texas
9-17 2-5 4-4 2/7 2-0-1-0-5
Kansas
6-8 1-2 0-0 2/8 2-2-2-2-4
Arizona
8-16 0-1 2-5 2/5 2-0-0-2-4
arizona
9-17 0-3 7-7 1/11 0-1-0-0-4
arizona
6-12 0-3 4-5 3/9 5-1-3-5-4
VCU
3-5 0-1 5-6 1/13 0-0-2-2-5
Hope I did not leave ant team with a decent 4/5 player out. Also wish I could find how he did Deff. in thoose games.

Wait, did you include points? THATS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!

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Court_visioN reply to SacNasty on Jun 24 at 14:02
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he assumed you could do math.

The student becomes the pupil :)

I admit I was tempted to say something but I know i have to behave :)

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Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 14:25
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a student becoming a pupil isn't much of an upgrade =)

Damn, it's been a very long week - student becomes a pupa?:)

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Court_visioN reply to SacNasty on Jun 24 at 14:04
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didn't mean that to sound quite so jemagee-like =P

I just hope the guy is better than Hawes. Great draft!

Eskin is saying Iguodala was "very difficult to coach. Wouldn't run the right plays."

and now it begins.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:18
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He's an idiot but he knows somebody pretty well connected in the Sixers organization. I'm not saying its true, I just wouldn't totally disregard everything he says related to the team like some.

I really do think yesterday was the day to trade him, stigmas have a way of making their way into the NBA front offices for whatever reason, and actually seem to seriously influence personnel decisions.

If he somehow becomes "uncoachable" as well as already being labeled "overpaid" He's never going anywhere.

Notice the use of quotes, as I'm not actually saying he is either of those labels.

There are several reasons why I don't believe a word of this, which I'm sure I'll eventually have to get into, but the validity of this doesn't matter a whole lot if it gets "out there." Once it does, it just becomes fact among the anti-Iguodala people. Not sure how it affects his value.

Eskin may or may not have sources

but he has an agenda

Usually his sources are bitter current or ex employees with an axe to grind against someone and Eskin loves axe grinding

He also hates good players

Eskin is a douchebag

If you're listening to him STOP

That was on Twitter.

I think i've made my feelings about twitter pretty clear as well, it's worse than actually listening to his radio show

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:25
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hahaha you asked Eskin for a source, good one Brian

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johnrosz on Jun 24 at 14:28
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Doug curiously sat Iggy at the end of game 3 I think it was, or maybe game 5. For like 3 or 4 possessions, then brought him right back in.

OH MY GOD ITS TRUE

No really though, anyone remember that? It was bizarre

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johnrosz on Jun 24 at 14:51
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hey Brian, Eskins son mentioned you on twitter

SpikeRocks Spike Eskin
@iAmDreDennis you overrate Iguodala because you read depressedfan.com too much. Seriously. Ellis doesn't defend, fine, Iggy can't score.

heh. yeah, punk kid.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:56
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well, he's not actually a kid I don't think. Probably 30's. He hosts a local show once in a while, I know he's a radio DJ and he's terrible (plays whitesnake and shit hair metal, and AC/DC like non stop in the afternoon)

punk nearly middle-aged man.

He looks like a hipster to me.

The correct term is either hipster doofus or hipster douche

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jun 24 at 15:05
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God, the points per game argument again. It's so hard to get away from.

It's really not

Anyone who just uses the points per game argument is obviously someone not worth talking to - so you just ignore them.

He's eskins kid - is it a surprise he's a putz?

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 15:14
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I love his response though to "Ellis can't defend"

"Ellis can't defend? FINE, Iguodala can't score!"

That's just not true at all about Iggy. Yet it's so entirely true that Ellis can't defend, no matter what metrics you use to look at it.

More comments about Vucevic

Kelly Dwyer

"This is sort of the opposite feeling that I have about the Knicks, ending up with the same grade.

I like Vucevic's game. He can shoot, boards like crazy, and is a better athlete than some analysts gave him credit for. This is a legitimately good NBA player. I just wonder where he fits in Doug Collins' system, and amongst that loaded frontcourt in Philadelphia. I get that you have to draft the best player available, but I also wonder if the next team in Vucevic's career is his best team available.

Allen? Not feeling it. Grade: C+"

Kurt Helin

" Good pick up with Nikola Vucevic, the kind of genuine, low-post center and rebounder they could use. Sorry Spencer Hawes.
Grade: B+"

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johnrosz reply to Lou_23 on Jun 24 at 15:16
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loaded front court

That had to be sarcastic, didn't it?

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:22
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Maybe the writer just meant they have a lot of bodies in the frount court right now... doesn't realize loaded implies that they actually have a wealth of talent?

Loaded Philadelphia front court ? What the F ?

I think he has just about every point backwards.

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johnrosz on Jun 24 at 15:32
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Also getting back to an issue from last night. You guys were being a little harsh on Ed Stefanski for forgetting to mention Evan Turner as part of the young core during ESPN interview.

I think you guys are giving Ed way too much credit if you think he made a conscious decision to leave Turner out. I think he has no idea what he's saying half the time to begin with, and was probably a little bit jumpy about doing a national interview.

Heh. That's a fairly big omission, imo.

Stefanski on 97.5 said Vucevic is "Nenad Kridstic before he blew his knee out"

Is that good or bad?

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Steve V reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 16:17
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Kristic was a good up and coming player before his injury, so I'd say it's a good thing, Id say Vucevic is more like Kristic post injury though.

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Jason's Kid reply to Steve V on Jun 26 at 9:44
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Nenad Kristic was said to be the best european bigman in europe before he busted his knee. So that for me is a positive.

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johnrosz on Jun 24 at 16:03
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While I agree that it's fair to criticize his combine numbers,especially his vert and lane agility, ripping on Vucevic for his bench press isn't fair. He has a crazy wingspan, you know he's a strong kid just looking at him. From what I've seen he also appears to be more coordinated than Spencer, which is a bonus. I don't even think Spencer can drink a cup of gatorade without looking like an uncoordinated oaf.

He's an improvement over Mo Speights, our backup C.

Right now our roster in 2012 will look like:

Dwight Howard
Elton Brand
Andre Iguodala
Evan Turner
Jrue Holiday

Reserves:

Nikola Vucevic
Thaddeus Young
Terrence Ross
Lou Williams
Andre Miller

Jodie Meeks

How do you know he's an improvement over Mo Speights (I'll say it once, and I'll say it again, Spencer HAwes was not that much better than Mo Speights when you take into account minutes, they both EQUALLY sucked)

I missed the rest of what you said after your factless presumption that he's better than speights.

Made me laugh - thanks

There's a small minute chance Dwight HOward plays for the sixers next season (but not any other seasons after that)

There's a small minute chance i'll have sex with lucy liu some day - cause quantum possibilities and all that. I have a better chance with lucy liu than the sixers have of getting dwight howard.

When Andre Iguodala is not part of the deal, the odds i sleep with lucy liu before are die become INFINITELY higher than the odds the sixers obtain Dwight Howard.

I want the drugs you're taking, cause they're AWESOME

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Dan reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 17:10
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That projected lineup was mostly a joke. For fucks sake, are you always this much of an ass or do you just vent all of your frustrations from work and home on the internet? OBVIOUSLY its a long shot that we get Dwight Howard. We don't have the cap space or the prospects to acquire him. We also wouldn't be able to afford to keep him, Lou, Iggy, Thad and Brand if there is a hard cap. It's a light-hearted overly optimistic solution to make this team a contender.

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packimop reply to Dan on Jun 29 at 12:33
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Are you serious? Dwight Howard to the 6ers? Why do I even see people mentioning this? It's utterly retarded for so many reasons especially since you still have EB/Thad/AI9 which would basically put us at the cap right there. God damn you are stupid

It really boggles my mind that anyone who is serious basketball fan and sixer fan, would like this pick. We basically got spencer hawes to make it easier for people out there to comprehend. Also, spencer hawes sucked last year and didn't defend anyone. So now we have two of the same players, this is not a step in the right direction.

On a different note Eskin is an idiot and his son plays crappy music allday and he should stick to DJ job and not comment about sports.

So now that we have our backup center position filled through the draft, how do we fill our starting center position?

I don't expect anything out of the 2011 free agency. Since we are committed to 53 million even without Thad and Hawes contract factored in. I don't see any decent prospects in the 2012 draft (unless Lucas Noguiera proves otherwise)

The 2012 Free agents are:

Dwight Howard
JaVale McGee (R)
Omer Asik (R)
Roy Hibbert (R)
Chris Kaman
Anthony Randolph (R)
Robin Lopez (R)
Jason Thompson (R)

Are we going to spend the next 2 years without a center unless we get in the lottery?


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Steve V reply to Stan on Jun 24 at 20:07
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The 2012 draft is loaded, best since 03.

Bucher on Iguodala not being traded

Because they're going through a sale of the team. I've been told the new ownership doesn't want any significant deals made until they're officially under control. So my prediction that Ig would be dealt by July 1 could be in danger. But I still believe, short of rules that prohibit it, he'll be dealt before the end of the next season. Whenever that might be.

Just a funny question

If there's no 11-12 season, can the Bobcats be given the top pick next year based purely on roster?

Here's an (unconfirmed) fun fact that I didn't think brian shared yet

Of players drafted in the top 30 over the previous 11 years, only 1 had a worse vertical than Nikola Vucevic. His name was Pavel Podkolzine. Pavel Podkolzine was 7'5", 303 pounds.

Dude reaches to 9'5" without jumping. what the problem is

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Dan reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 18:25
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A lot of good PF prospects, (if everyone declares) good year to trade up and find Brand's replacement.

Don't need to trade up - just trade Iguodal for kaman - that shold do it

I think its a good thing that Charlotte drafted Bismack. Think we might be able to aqcuire him for less than what we would have on draft night. Maybe we can trade him Spencer Hawes? Why not? They've given up Tyson Chandler and Gerald Wallace for basically nothing.

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zig reply to Stan on Jun 24 at 18:34
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I do think it makes tyrus thomas very gettable, if anyone is interested in him and his contract

Jeff Goodman
"I'm a huge fan of Vucevic, who is a skilled big man with size and three years of college experience. He can score inside and also on the perimeter -- and does a nice job on the glass. Allen is a solid second-round pickup, another big body who could make the club.
Grade: A- " Second best note

John goodmans skinnier less talented brother?

Hey Brian, if it's alright to post here, my buddy and I like to joke around on a blog of our own and just write about sports and whatever we want in the goofiest way possible. He's a big NBA guy and a diehard Cavs fan, and we talk about the NBA in about the most irreverent way possible. If anyone wants to read two guys crack mostly bad jokes during the first 20 picks last night, take a look. Be warned, some language in here too:

http://twomuchnoise.com/2011-nba-draft-commentary-predicting-results-the-morris-twins-and-the-five-stages-of-grief.html

Yeah, no problem at all. Whenever you write something feel free to put a link in here.

After this pick I drank myself to drunk within 25 minutes. Had a horrible draft, and a worse evening.

Now with the benefit of a dwindling hangover, I've begun to look into this kid. I did nothing before the draft, because for the last month I've been convincing myself this would be the year we'd do something ballsy. Wrong.

What I've seen so far is giving me a reason for optimism. The reports say the guy is slow. Slow as shit. Can't jump etc etc. After watching about 40 minutes of clips, I don't see it. He seems to have really smooth foot work, not have a problem getting up, graceful around the basket, and a soft touch. Now I understand the clips are selective, but the boy has some talent in there, you can see it. He's big and he's young.

Wouldn't bet money he'd challenge for the starting job next year, which he better. Not sold on him, but pleased enough to regret my initial reaction.

40 minutes of clips designed to make him look good

Go watch full games

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Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 19:14
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I acknowledged that, because I knew you would. I understand that. Even though they are put together in a way to influence a positive opinion, they still show he has some talents.

In his entire college career they could only find 40 minutes to show he has talent

think about all the other minutes

that show he sucks

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 19:54
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You mean that his fans, if he were good, would post hours and hours of clips to youtube? Is that the case of any college player?

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Rich reply to Tray on Jun 24 at 21:18
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No it isn't, unless the guy was a highlight reel player or at some big basketball school which USC doesn't qualify as.

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Tray reply to Rich on Jun 25 at 14:01
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Right. Anyway, I looked at these clips and he doesn't look good. He has an okay shot and a very mechanical hook shot, like Dwight Howard's. His post moves are slow and lumbering, as is he. I can't see how anyone can even look at that guy and see a promising NBA center. For me to draft him above, say, 40, he'd have to be 7'2 and capable of blocking a few shots.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 19:15
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Do you know where I can get full games (without paying). I remember someone last year posted a link to a full game of Ohio State and I realized that Turner was a volume scorer. I want to see this guy play defense, how he rebounds, and what his athletic limitations are.

I actually just looked it up - freaking USC web site has full games but you gotta pay.

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The Greek reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 19:43
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John, with all due respect you're Bipolar right? Nothing wrong with that, but it would help other understand why your so bitter and petulant when others disagree with you?

Ah, it's nice to see your back to my name calling.

Really, when you tried to get me fired from my job I should have realized what type of petulant troll you really are.

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dan reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 21:53
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With all due respect, he does have a point. You do treat everyone here like idiots and you are always bitter. This isn't philly.com

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The Greek on Jun 24 at 19:46
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Good news for the DP faithful as it appears that Iggy will be back next season. I just hope that he relinquishes the need to have the ball in his hands for late game possessions. Drives more to the basket, and makes 80% of his ft's.

Ah fuck it

I'm out

Things I learned today:

I'm a punk
My show sucks
I'm a hipster
I'm a putz
I am nearly middle aged (which is an unfortunate reality)
If you have a job that partially entails playing music, you should not be permitted to discuss sports
I am a douche

And here I was excited for Friday. Now I can't even talk sports anymore.

Bummer.

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Rich reply to Spikr on Jun 25 at 0:49
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If it makes you feel better, I had no idea who you were. Now I know you want to trade Iguodala for Ellis.

If you can't take the little bit of criticism you got today, having a job in the public eye is probably not a great choice.

I understand everyone hates the 16th pick. I'm not thrilled with it either. But we did NEED a center. Do we need yet ANOTHER SF or PF ? When exactly would the #2 pick of last years draft actually PLAY if we did that ?
If this guy can average 10 pts and 8 boards a night and clog up the lane a bit with his mass I'm OK with the pick.
Philly has a long history of drafting big slow white guys who cant play, so I can see where the sensitivity is. But maybe this ones different. Collins loves em. We trust Collins don't we ? I do. Lets face it most of you don't know anything about the players being drafted outside of highlight reels and what some basketball blogger writes about their strengths and weaknesses. Thats all you know, that's it. Collins sees the workouts, talks with the player, probably watches HOURS of real game tape, not just highlight reels or some bullshit picture of JRUE attempting to dunk on Vucevic.(which he didnt score on anyway). This is a young guy who averaged 17 and 10 in the PAC 10. Not in high school. Hes gotten much better every year and will probably continue to(which I'm sure is Collins mindset here). I remember this time last year everyone going gaga over Derrick Favors, the number THREE pick in the draft. He was so fantastic the nets traded him. He may turn out to be pretty good but the reality is you don't really know. Let it play out before you crucify the guy. If he turns out to be another Rik Smits(another big slow white guy) I would say the pick is a steal.

I don't trust Collins at all (he thinks Lou is "one of my best players" and insists Iguodala has the ball on the last possession for an iso no matter what). But I love the pick. True center, double-double averages, 75% foul shooter (for a 7-footer, that's a great reflection of shooting skills). Can't wait till he gets on the court.

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Tray reply to Gdog on Jun 25 at 11:42
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"I remember this time last year everyone going gaga over Derrick Favors, the number THREE pick in the draft. He was so fantastic the nets traded him."

For the first or second best point guard in basketball. A reflection of how highly teams think of him.

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Gdog reply to Tray on Jun 25 at 13:22
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Wrong. You act like they traded Favors for Williams straight up. He was a little more than a throw in. Devon Harris and two first round draft picks is what got the deal done. Not just Derrick Favors. http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6150419
If this guy was so valued around the league they could have traded at the minimum him and Devon Harris( a former all star) without TWO first round draft picks. At this point hes a good role player. Nothing more. Which at the end of the day may be the same thing Vucevic may wind up being.

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Tray reply to Gdog on Jun 25 at 13:54
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No one really values Devin Harris. They had to make the salaries match.

I think that trade was more about this year's #3 plus the additional first-rounder than about Favors. I imagine they're thrilled with getting Kanter, plus they have another pick, all for a guy who was going to leave them in a year anyways. It's amazing how much more the Nets gave up for D. Williams (without a contract extension) than the Knicks gave up for Carmelo (with a contract extension).

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 25 at 16:19
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Well, not so amazing when you consider that Williams is twice the player.

Both are excellent, but the contract extension issue is a huge one. What if the Nets can't re-sign Williams? Then they ruined themselves for about 7 years. And it's going to be hard to keep him. They blew so much cap space on Outlaw, Farmar, and Petro, and they'll have to throw money at Humphries and Brook Lopez to keep them. Williams isn't going to stay there if that's his entire supporting cast, they'll have no additional cap space for another star.

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Dan reply to stoned81 on Jun 25 at 22:35
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They have a ton of cap space in 2012. I believe they are on the books for 20 mill. Basically they took a HUGE gamble. They did this so that they can eventually sign Dwight Howard. Howard may feel that the best situation for him to win a championship is to join Deron in NJ. Other teams won't have enough space or enough talent to bring him. ORL is in the same situation CLE is in. They are on the books for 56 mill w/o Howard for summer 12'. They won't have the cap space to sign any good players to keep him there. IMO I think Howard is gone and as a FA NJ and BOS are the only teams that might be able to sign him

Yeah they have about $20M to Outlaw/Morrow/Petro/Farmar. They'll probably have to throw about $8M/yr at Humphries, that's $28M. Add Deron Williams at $16M/yr (or more), that's $44M. I guess that could leave about $16M for Howard. So I suppose it's doable, if they tell Brook Lopez to take a hike. I think they're going to have to hope ORL takes Lopez in a trade for Howard. If that works, then hey, it was a good move. Huge risk though.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 26 at 0:04
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Lopez is putrid so that's not happening.

I think he's better than putrid, but I agree ORL wouldn't trade Howard for him. If the Nets keep Lopez, they have no space for another star beyond D-Will. Which will make it tough to keep him.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 25 at 23:50
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Ruined themselves? They'll simply be one of the very worst teams in the league and get chances to draft more prospects like Favors. Like Cleveland after LeBron left. That team's future appears to be at least somewhat bright. I don't know how great Irving will be, Thompson seems to have been a mistake, but they'll be awful again given that a 20-year-old rookie point guard will be their best player next season, and they'll get to draft very high in next year's stacked draft. And eventually they'll have quite a core.

I don't see continually being bad to get good draft picks as a positive. That's the history of the Nets, Clippers, Raptors, Wolves, Kings, etc. It's a terrible path to go down. It occasionally works, but usually just puts your fans in extended misery.

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 26 at 0:01
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And I don't know if Carmelo's excellent. Carmelo's an excellent talent who hasn't made the jump to excellent basketball player. There's a reason Denver got better when he left, New York got worse when he arrived, and he never won anything out there in spite of being on a pretty talent-loaded team. And I know people think that team was fatally bad on defense, but that's partly his fault, and it isn't even true. Adjusted for pace, they had some good defensive seasons. On paper, if Melo were so good, that team should've made the Finals. What he had was no less than what Dirk had this year, probably more. A lot of size and talent up front, Chauncey Billups (and before that Iverson when he was still quite good), tons of scorers. Honestly, I think the single biggest weakness about the Denver Nuggets the past 8 years was that their go-to guy was Carmelo, an inefficient volume scorer who can't shoot and doesn't care about defense.

Dirk had two centers (Chandler and Haywood), Knicks didn't really have a center. I also think Carlisle is a better coach than D'Antoni. Not to mention Dirk also had Terry, Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd, that's a way better team. Billups was hurt, so Carmelo's supporting cast was Amare and nothing. The Mavs were also together a lot longer. I don't think the situations are comparable.

Vucevic could very well be a good "below the rim" rebounder. Those guys exist(ed). Silas, Unseld, even Kevin Love now. But the odds of it happening are slim to none. And rebounds are good, but he couldn't even block shots at a substantial rate in the Pac-10. Hawes scored less and rebounded less at Washington but blocked 0.3 more shots per game.

I don't see how picking up a PF would have blocked Turner. Anyway, they could have picked up Singleton and then convinced a team that wanted him to give us something valuable in return. You need strong assets in this league, not filler like Vucevic.

Teams weren't exactly fighting each other to get Singleton, were they? Why would they trade out of the spot if they wanted Vucevic?

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Tray reply to stoned81 on Jun 25 at 23:53
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Well you know, we could have traded down 20 spots and he still would've been there. That's what Derek says and that seems about right for a player of Vucevic's abilities to everyone but you. So if Vucevic was really their guy, they screwed themselves just by not trading the pick for two second-rounders, or something of that nature.

Did Derek speak with every GM that drafted from 17 to 30? Or did some mysterious "source" tell him this, just like all the sources that told us Iggy would be traded, that the Wolves really wanted to trade the #2 pick? With all those great "sources" giving us BS trade rumors to increase the page views of the reporter, the only big trade was Stephen Jackson to MIL and John Salmons to SAC, which was never rumored by any source ever. Sources are a joke.

Derek saying Vucevic wouldn't have gone the 2nd round is (a) pure speculation, and (b) in my opinion, absurd. The Knicks looked pretty closely at Vucevic, and they were just one spot behind us. If you want to pick a guy, you draft him. You don't make ridiculous gambles just because a reporter named Derek has a source who thinks you can get the guy in the 2nd round. Who manages a team like that?

If reporters really knew where everyone in the draft was going, they wouldn't butcher their mock drafts every year. After the first 3 picks, the mocks were wrong on pretty much every pick in the entire draft. Why? Because GMs don't tip sources on who they're drafting. They aren't idiots. If you tip a source to your draft plans, other teams will jump in front of you to grab that player. So it doesn't happen, and everyone is simply guessing. Derek is guessing, his source is guessing, and the Sixers, instead of guessing, drafted the guy they wanted.

"that seems about right for a player of Vucevic's abilities to everyone but you"

I think you forgot about Rod Thorn and Doug Collins.

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Cin reply to stoned81 on Jun 26 at 10:00
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At the very least the Blazers would have scooped him up at #21.

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Tray reply to Cin on Jun 26 at 14:06
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Yeah, the Blazers also wasted their first-round pick. So that's possible. When they had a smart GM (the guy who did Charlotte's brilliant draft), that wouldn't have happened.

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Jason's Kid reply to Tray on Jun 26 at 9:34
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Not really.

Bobcats, Kings, Spurs, Knicks(trying to get the 15th) and the Celtics were all interested in selecting Nikola. That's why we almost traded Iggy to move 6 spots up so we can select him.

...but will this dude's tweets and awkwardly falling over during intros be as hilarious as 00's?

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Spencer Flaws on Jun 26 at 0:49
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what the heck does thorn keep saying "uh" in the introductory press conference.

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Jason's Kid on Jun 26 at 9:29
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What's not to like about this kid? Yeah, I know he's not that of an athletic jumper but he's got one of the best in terms of standing reach, quickness (sprint; quicker than most Cs) and skill.

Before you guys do a criticism about this kid, try to do a research about his workouts. Words like "outstanding", "impressive" and "wow" are the words that described his workouts. It's been said that some NBA execs were finding a hard time to differentiate him and Enes Kanter (lower than Vucevic in stand vertical).

Offensively, he's a good inside and outside scorer. Coach Silas and Collins were impressed by his scoring arsenal which includes the ability to score inside with either left or right hand. Defensively, he's a solid defensive player and is a very good rebounder.

Great post. Agreed!

This whole post could've been written 4 years ago about Spencer Hawes, minus, in fairness, the rebounding. For example, draftexpress wrote back then:

His combination of excellent footwork, outside shooting stroke, and post moves that even many NBA veterans lack are what separate him from any other center prospect in the 2007 NBA Draft not named Greg Oden.

Offensively, we have not seen a more polished center at the collegiate level in recent memory. He has every single post move in the book, along with the ability to go to those moves with either hand. He is awfully hard to predict since he goes to both his left and right shoulders equally well, with no problems shooting a turnaround jumper or jump hook regardless of what direction he goes. Hawes' soft touch with either hand is awfully rare for a big man prospect (evidenced by his 54.1% field goal percentage), and makes him an absolute nightmare for bigger, less mobile centers such as Gray.

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tk76 reply to Tray on Jun 26 at 15:27
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Just because Hawes is a bum who does not care to work on his game and has bad knees that prevent him from having a strong base... does not mean every non-explosive white center is destined to be a bum.

I don't like the thought process of the teamub going for non-athletes the past two years, but it is way too early to know if this guy will be a quality player or not.

Absolutely agree. I'm not super excited with Vucevic, but we could've done much worse. He was a very good rebounder in college (especially on the defensive end) and reportedly has great work ethic. He may end up being a career backup but it's equally possible that he becomes a decent starting center. It's all about continued development...

Maybe this will help some of you guys a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcgpIuD_JyQ
We dont have ANYONE on the roster that hits jumpers consistently( from the center postion). We dont have ANYONE on the roster that is a "workout warrior".
We dont have ANYONE on the roster who is committed to getting better everyday. We dont have ANYONE on the roster from the center postion who rebounds like this.

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Cin reply to Gdog on Jun 26 at 11:21
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Unless you mistakenly left out the "from a center" caveat after "workout warrior" then you are mistaken. Iguodala/Young both are definitely classified as such.

"We dont have ANYONE on the roster who is committed to getting better everyday."

Two things: (1) this isn't true, Jrue is committed to getting better. So are Turner and Thad. Just because they don't always get better doesn't mean they aren't trying. (2), who cares how committed he is when he has to get vastly better just to be an okay center?

I did mistakenly leave out "from the center position". Im well aware Iguodola, Young and Jrue all work heavily on their game. I think part of the issue with the pick is that there were players that were ranked higher that were still on the board. Unfortunately, we already have at least 3 "tweeners" on the roster and Brand had a pretty good year last year and hes not going anywhere for the next few years. So taking singleton wasnt an option. and lets not forget...we NEEDED a center !

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Spencer Flaws on Jun 26 at 15:04
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Vucevic has a longer wingspan and standing reach than spencer despite being an inch shorter, he actually hits his free throws, and he is way stronger than spencer. Spencer hawes only bench pressed 9 reps at his combine and he has the same wingspan as his height. Vucevic has a wingspan that is 5 inches longer than his height. And vucevic rebounds better.

Just because Hawes is a bum who does not care to work on his game and has bad knees that prevent him from having a strong base... does not mean every non-explosive white center is destined to be a bum.

I don't like the thought process of the teamub going for non-athletes the past two years, but it is way too early to know if this guy will be a quality player or not.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Jun 26 at 16:04
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What center with the lift of a potted plant, good but not great size, and no shot-blocking ability hasn't been a bum? I've seen people throw around names like Rik Smits, Okur, Ilgauskas, but they were a lot bigger, or in Okur's case, considerably more talented. To me a jump-shooting center is useless unless he can make threes at a good rate, or is incredibly accurate from mid-range, like Yao was. Otherwise, you're just adding someone pretty good at making the least efficient shot at basketball.

There are a lot of successful not very athletic big men in the NBA. Okur was pretty good while he was healthy, and he is actually smaller than Vucevic. Yao was the best center in the league, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph are very good, even Al Jefersson and Brook Lopez are good players despite their flaws, Brad Miller was good for a while... I could go on and on. And that's before we get to the lesser known players such as Oberto, Jeff Foster, Nesterovic who were very useful as well. Even if Vucevic becomes something like them it's great value for a player picked at #16 in a very weak draft.

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rswknight reply to Tray on Jun 26 at 16:29
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Wes Unseld, Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Yao, Sabonis(NBA version), Sacremento version of Vlade Divac, Modern version of Tim Duncan, Greg Monroe...

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Rich reply to tk76 on Jun 26 at 16:52
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Like your thought process here. Don't agree with the front office's fascination with non-athletes at the center position, but it's premature to just write him off and say "He's another Hawes." Let's watch the kid play first.

Looking at his college numbers, his season this year was better than Hawes' at Washington. Hawes was only a freshman, while Vucevic was very young his first couple of years.

sorry for the double post, using my phone at the airport.

You are making the premature assumption that he will only be a jump shooter because he lacks lift. That may or may not turn out to be the case.

He wants to be like Pau Gasol- and a less athletic Pau is basically Marc Gasol. Will he be like that, I do not know- but Iam bot going to count out his ability to score in the lane just yet since he has size, length and touch .

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rswknight reply to tk76 on Jun 26 at 16:39
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He's also mentioned Tim Duncan in interviews as someone he emulates as well.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Jun 26 at 22:15
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I think Marc Gasol is a far more physical player than his brother (or Vucevic) and a very solid defensive player. Anyway, you're smarter than this - he wants to be like Pau Gasol, but he's not that athletic, so... I guess he'll be like Pau's brother because Pau's brother is a less athletic version of Pau! (And is that even really true? I think they have completely different games.) Who might be the third best center in the NBA. What Vucevic wants to be, imagines he could be, is very different from what he's capable of being. I want to be as good a lawyer as Chief Justice Roberts was when he was in private practice, but I'm not quite as elegant a writer, so therefore maybe I'll be like Seth Waxman, the former Solicitor General of the United States, because he's like Roberts minus the really elegant writing. Or, more likely, maybe I'll just be a pretty good lawyer, because if I had Waxman-like talent I would have displayed it by now, just as if Vucevic had a chance at being Marc Gasol people might have heard of him before his junior year in college.

You are getting us reversed here. You are the one who has already decided he will be a stiff who only shoots jumpers. Whereas I never said Vucevic will succeed, just that it is not somehow predetermined simply because he lacks explosiveness.

I'm the one who says there is a range he can end up as a player depending on how he develops in terms of lower body strength and the ability to get off shots in the lane. That range is anywhere from a worse passing Hawes to a Marc Gasol type player with better range.

We know he is not an athlete. We know he will not be a good shot blocker. What nobody knows is to what degree his strengths at USC will translate, and how much he adds to his skills and physical tools from age 21 to his prime in 3-4n years.

Hawes was unable/unwilling to add to his game. Hawes had major knee reconstruction at age 16. he also has a rep of being resistant to coaching and not very committed to working on his weak areas off the court.

But to you to assume that Hawes and Vucevic will have the same career arc just because they entered the league with some similar strengths and limitation is lacking an open mind. Hawes stinks beyond not being able to jump.

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Rich reply to Tray on Jun 26 at 22:56
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The junior year in college thing is a lazy argument. Marc Gasol came into the league when he was three years older than Vucevic did. He also had been playing European basketball for five years before he was picked late in the 2nd Round. That's a huge difference.

You are acting like Marc Gasol was a sure thing. His NBA draft profile from ESPN, verbatim:

"A below average NBA athlete. Can be plodding at times. Plays below the rim which hurts both his rebounding and shot blocking numbers. Slow. Has struggled with weight issues in the past."

That sounds a lot like Vucevic. I am turning into a Vucevic defender by just wanting to give the guy a good chance to play before making a value judgment.

BTW, here was my exact post... how you jumped to your conclusion about it is beyond me :)

"He wants to be like Pau Gasol- and a less athletic Pau is basically Marc Gasol. Will he be like that, I do not know"

We got a skilled 5, now do we have to pair him with a defensive 4?

Here's an interesting point made by NBA draft net...

Recent history would indicate that drafting a high energy athlete who makes a team play 4-on-5 offensively works best when the team has a player or players who can handle that additional offensive burden. Joel Anthony can operate in Miami because they have Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, and Omer Asik are able to be valuable despite teams not defending them outside the paint because of Derrick Rose.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades

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rswknight reply to Max on Jun 26 at 19:51
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If Vucevic becomes a solid starter, then I would look to match him with a high-energy, high motor athletic banger 4/5 type who can defend, block shots, rebound, set screens and run the floor. Kenneth Faried would match that profile from this draft. Mason Plumlee too.

Perhaps a motivated Lavoy Allen could become that well?

kind of common sense no?

Its a shame because Sammy D would be perfect right now. He isn't a shot blocker but perhaps we can get Reggie Evans for cheap. He loved Philly.

He too isn't a shot blocker, but Chuck Hayes is also a good rebounder and defender

Of all recorded "centers" drafted in the 1st round where draftexpress has 3/4 court sprint numbers, Vucevic ranks 11th out of 49. His agility score is 26th out of 49.

His non-step max reach is better than Kaman, Kanter, Love and Monroe, within 2" of Counsins and LMA, Bogut, Horford... and yet people have decided he won't be able to score in the lane?

Maybe the guy will be a complete stiff. I don't know. But I also don't know why so many people are convinced he will be a bust just because he was not the type of player that we wanted the Sixers to draft. It reminds me of when people knee jerked pre-determined that Jrue would stink just because he was not Lawson.

Excellent post sir. The response has definitely been knee-jerk. And when people started saying the Sixers could have gotten Vucevic in the 2d round (a manifestly absurd contention), I knew it had gone beyond reality.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Jun 26 at 23:20
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He won't score in the post in the halfcourt because anyone can see that his post game is pretty bleh. And he's not going to score by running the floor, obviously, or catching lobs, or by outmuscling anyone.

Also, a guy did similarity scores for all the draft prospects, and Vucevic rated as most similar to Marcus Haislip, Nick Collison, Brackins, Frye, Koufos, Ryan Anderson, D.J. White, and Spencer Hawes. Faried rated as most similar to Okafor, Taj Gibson, Oden, David Harrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams, Sean May, Jordan Hill, Favors, and Ed Davis. Singleton also has a surprisingly strong list of comparables: http://www.hickory-high.com/?page_id=1740

"He won't score in the post in the halfcourt because anyone can see that his post game is pretty bleh"

Just because you see it this way doesn't mean "anyone" sees it this way. Many disagree with you including Rod Thorn and several other GMs who were interested in Vucevic.

As for your comparisons, if the guys Faried and Singleton compare with include Sean May, Jordan Hill, Greg Oden, David Harrison, Tyrus Thomas, and Taj Gibson, I'm doubly glad we didn't pick them. Talk about lacking upside.

Yes, Faried will end up somewhere like Sheldon Williams, Favors, Oden and Taj Gibson... becasue those players are so similar?

Sounds like an example of plugging in stats without any regard for the actual players. Do you really think that group of players are similar?

Did you read his methodology?

He used Height. He ignored wingspan and standing reach. He then looked at stats without in any way normalizing them to level of competition or age.

He did a statistical analysis. That does not mean it was a valid one :)

Great find. Although I'm still upset we aren't getting the next Jordan Hill! LMAO.

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Rich reply to Tray on Jun 26 at 23:45
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I think most of us take Singleton or Faried too, that's not what the point is. I'd like to see the guy play before than trying to figure out which one of six guys a study says he'll be as a pro.

As for his post game, it is heavily reliant on hook shots. I will say that his wingspan MAY help that translate. None of the guys I've seen in the highlights (I understand what a highlight video does) are even close to blocking his shot.

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Rich reply to Rich on Jun 26 at 23:49
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Plus that study says Carmelo Anthony is just as good of a comparison to Vucevic as Hawes. Hah.


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