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The Gray Lady Joins the Fray

Sucks.

Even if the NYT or another publication were to do the suggested hard investigative work, unveiling what they may suggest, how much would that actually alter in the owner's persecution of an agreement that massively favors them? Probably not much.

Going into any, ANY, labor dispute in which the two sides are battling for profit agreements, when has it not gone to the prospective owners/investors ways?

I just don't see a way that those owners/investors wont get their way, 2011-12 season or not.

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Ryan F on Jul 7 at 7:41
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We need a fan's union. All this bickering over millions/billions of dollars is pretty much a slap in the face to all of the hard working, blue collar fans, who love the product but have to figure out how to go to the game after the mortgage is paid and the babies are fed.

To sit in a seat that is better than watching CSN costs $100 an ass. If I want some clothing, I have to spend $20-$100 on some poorly made POS from China that cost a dollar to sew and a dollar to ship. Outrageous.

These greedy human beings should be embarrassed.

If you don't like the price of tickets (and I'm with you), you should be on the owners' side in the dispute. The owners are trying to reduce costs, which has the potential benefit of reducing ticket prices (especially in a place like Philly where the attendance is putrid). The players' exorbitant salaries are the biggest cause of the massive hike in ticket prices over the past 8 years.

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mchezo reply to stoned81 on Jul 7 at 11:12
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The owners are not going to pass on any cost savings to the consumers (fans). They are going to pocket whatever they can. Furthermore, the owners are also interested in business customers who buy season tickets and give them to clients as gifts. They cannot afford to lower prices to the point to where the face value of the tickets is so low that the gift to clients would be seen as having little value. They also can't afford to price them so high that regular fans can't afford them. The pricing of tickets is driven by a lot of different factors and is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Most of those tickets don't even have a face value printed on them anymore.

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mchezo reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 13:33
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Are you saying that the value of the tickets is not a consideration?

Depends on what you mean by value. I mean, does it matter more if they pay $1,000 face value or if they get them off StubHub for $200? I don't think so. There's cache in giving someone courtside seats, I don't think the price that's printed on the tickets (if it is printed there) matters a whole lot.

You're missing my point. I wasn't implying the owners would reduce ticket prices out of charity. I'm arguing they could reduce ticket prices because it will be a valid business decision.

Ticket prices have risen dramatically in recent years to match the corresponding gargantuan increase in player salaries. However, it's reached the point where the prices are too high for most cities (NY LA Chicago will never have a problem selling out expensive tickets, but most cities will). With reduced player salaries, owners will have the opportunity to experiment with a decrease in ticket prices to see if it spurs larger crowds.

It's at least possible. Whereas if salaries don't come down, it's not possible. So someone who wants cheaper tickets should be on the side of the owners. That's all I'm saying.

I'm surprised it's taken so long for someone to make this point. People here seem more concerned that players with 9 figures coming are underpaid versus the Earl Curetons and Willie Greens of the league. What I want out of the new CBA is to be able to watch the Sixers away games on channel 29 or the Knicks on 9 while sitting on the couch and drinking a beer.

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Dan reply to Ryan F on Jul 7 at 11:30
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People who are struggling to pay their mortgage and feed their babies should not be attending Sixers games.

If Financial World went out of business, and Forbes hasn't seen the NBA books, then the Times should be pretty embarrassed that this made it to their web site.

Except that the Times publishes stuff more embarrassing than this on a daily basis.

Wow, it looks like this is legit. Deron Williams will play in Turkey if the lockout continues.

That's pretty amazing, I'm not sure if restrictions in NBA contracts don't hold any weight during the lockout or if maybe there wasn't anything explicit in there, but it's shocking that a guy of his stature would be the first.

I get a laugh out of the players threatening to go overseas. Considering Euroleague money is way less than what the NBA offered just last week, and the players union rejected that proposal without even making a counteroffer, it shows just how ridiculous the players' hard line position is. They are just being obnoxious and obtuse for the sake of being obnoxious and obtuse. It's not about the money, it's not about fairness, it's not about negotiating in good faith, it's just about saying no for the sake of saying no.

D-Will's not too worried I suppose because he has only 1 year left on his deal, so he's not taking much of a risk. But the "I'll just go to Europe" threats coming from guys like Kevin Durant (who would stand to lose about $80M in guaranteed money if he got hurt overseas) are a joke.

It's not ridiculous at all.

Any player who goes overseas is going to have an out clause where they can come back to the NBA if an agreement is made.

These negotiations aren't about this year, but about the next decade. This isn't meant as a long term replacement for NBA $, but to cushion the hit of potential loss of income to strengthen their bargaining power.

Yep, there won't be enough roster slots over there to take care of everyone, and the salaries are going to be comparatively low, though.

Oh, I wasn't trying to say the entire league is going to mass exodus over there and it's a solution for everyone. I just don't think it's short sighted and ridiculous for the ones who do.

Agreed. And I seriously doubt you'll see any free agents make the move, if Williams gets hurt, the Nets are still paying him. If Thad gets hurt, he doesn't have a fallback.

A lot of the Euroleague teams aren't going to rent NBA players. A few will maybe, but not most. What's more ridiculous is the threat, because players with long-term deals like Durant aren't going to risk injury. It's puffery in negotiations.

Durant gets the $80M whether he gets hurt playing in Turkey or not, just like he gets the $80M if he gets hurt playing pickup ball in his backyard. The risk in a guy with a long-term, big money deal playing in Europe is completely on the shoulders of the owners who are allowing it by locking out the players.

I don't think this is going to add much leverage to the players' side, but it does ad some if more stars follow Williams overseas.

Durant wouldn't lose any money if he got hurt in Europe, not unless he's doing something his contract states explicitly that he cannot do. The Thunder would be on the hook to pay him the $80M.

NBA contracts have language that could allow voiding deals for injuries sustained in non-approved activities. While it's unlikely the Thunder could prevent Durant from going overseas (it's would surely be a violation of his right to work to prevent him from taking another job when they aren't paying him), it would give them the potential option of voiding his deal if he sustains a serious injury.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/07/07/deron.williams/index.html?xid=si_nba&asid=4c825891

That article is flimsy, at best. Ellis was riding a mo-ped, which was a direct violation of a clause in his contract, and made the contract voidable. Unless players have clauses in their contracts prohibiting playing competitive basketball, they wouldn't be voidable. This is no different from guys going back to their colleges to work out with the team, or even getting together w/ a group of players to work out 5-on-5 in the summer. It's a basketball activity and I find it very unlikely that many contracts ban basketball activities.

Heh, so Beasley's marijuana arrest could be his third offense of the league's drug policy. The penalty for a third offense: 5 game suspension.

Do players with guaranteed contracts get paid during the lockout?

Nope. Not a dime, but most teams only pay during the regular season, so they won't be missing paychecks until November.

"Super Cool Beas" a 3-time marijuana offender?

I'm shocked!

Seriously, who cares if pros smoke weed? We glorify guys who take needles to play or load up on legal pain killers - they're "warriors"...

There is a tremendous amount of physical pain involved in being a professional athlete. After a 10 year career, the guy who treats his aches and pains with Mary Jane will probably be better off than the addicted to percocets or oxy.

I don't really care if they test for weed or not, it's not performance enhancing. I just find it funny that they do have a rule against it, and the third offense is only a five-game suspension. Why have the rule at all if it doesn't have any teeth?

I'm sure very few people care, including the NBA apparently since it's only a 5-game suspension. But there's nothing wrong with the league punishing illegal activity if it wants to and the players agree in the CBA.

Beasley is making 6.3 million nest year. If he is suspended for 5 games will he lose 381k in salary?

384K, if it's $6.3M on the dot.

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Dan reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 16:12
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A $384,000 joint. Awesome.

And hitting JJ Barea will cost you $924,000

Apparently Beasley wont be losing anything because there was no CBA when the infraction occured.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214619/Beasley_Will_Avoid_Suspension_For_Marijuana_Possession_Due_To_Lockout

Also some UCLA fans are badmouthing Jrue:
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/7/5/2259875/dear-jrue-please-shut-up

There was a CBA when it occurred. It was the 26th, 4 days before the old CBA expired. They "could" punish him according to the old CBA.

Yeah, BruinsNation is hilarious. They were so pissed when he left early, like he hurt them personally in some way. The quote might just have meant that he would've still been at WU because his friggin' brother was on the team, but whatever. I can't imagine following a college basketball team closely enough to care that much. The sport just bores the hell out of me.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 17:09
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Those comments were hysterical. He's the black sheep of the program, hah. He's not that good in the NBA, hah.

This in my opinion is problem number one in sports fans: College fans and their misguided passion over 18 year old kids. If they don't choose their school, kiss its butt, or play as well as they want him to, they belittle him as a person. I always hated Willie Green's game but he seemed like a good guy.

It's even more ridiculous in Jrue's case. He's an A-Plus person from what I've heard of his interactions with fans.

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tk76 reply to Rich on Jul 7 at 22:02
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I guess the unanimous hatred towards Jrue over there adds some balance to the world. Because certainly every Sixers fan has Jrue at the top of their list as favorite players.

Speak for yourself, for me it's a toss-up between Nocioni and the Voose.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 22:18
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Hawes after a haircut.

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Rich reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 23:41
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I just think it's creepy how personally places like Kentucky and now from what I've seen UCLA, talk about people who played for them as 18 and 19 year old kids. You would think they would care less because their players are replaced faster, but that's not how it is.

Right. "Like Family" is a little more literal when he's talking about Washington.

In 24 minutes durinh rookie year, Jrue averaged 8 points, 3.8 assists, 2.6 rebounds, and 1.1 steals

In 23 minutes ET averaged 7.2 points, 3.9 rebounds, 2 assists and .6 steals.

Maybe there is hope for ET. His rookie numbers are also comparable to Granger's. Is it fair to expect 14 ppg from him next year?

I have a hard time even guessing what Turner will do in his sophomore season.

As a rookie, Jrue had a progression from getting royally screwed by a terrible coach, to playing really well when that coach was overruled and he had to start Jrue. Turner didn't have a progression in his rookie year. He did play well in the playoffs, so maybe he builds off that.

If you were asking me to bet money on the over/under for Turner's PPG this coming season, I'd say under 14 if Iguodala is here (but with decent efficiency), over 14 with poor efficiency if Iguodala is gone.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 18:59
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I don't know, I thought he played a lot better in March and April. After that Portland game where he got the start and was just brutal, he seemed to bounce back nicely for the remainder of the season. His shooting % improved, still not in love with how he didn't seem to know how to get himself to the line though.

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sober81 reply to johnrosz on Jul 7 at 22:12
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The bright side of Lou getting hurt was Turner stepping it up with the extra minutes.

Agreed. That may have saved Evan's career in Philadelphia, because Collins had stuffed him at the end of the bench for no reason (behind Nocioni even, a complete joke).

I'm with johnrosz on this. Brian, how can you say Turner didn't improve? He shot around 48% the last couple months and made 7 of his final 9 threes, which was a monstrous improvement over his start.

9 shots, huh? That sample size is big enough for you?

It shows improvement. More importantly, 48% at the end of the season from the field was a lot more than 9 shots.

Hmmmm check out who has returned to Twitter, now as @mindofAI9

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Dan reply to das411 on Jul 7 at 21:04
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what an elitist :)


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