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New Blood?

http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA/statuses/142105111194378240

An apparent NBA 'reporter' from hoopsworld.

Hmmn. That seems kind of odd to me, unless they're more shopping Lou to bring in something they need. I'd be 100% behind a Lou for Gortat deal. I kind of doubt they're shopping him because they feel like they need to get rid of him, though that would certainly be a clear departure from the status quo.

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Cin reply to Brian on Dec 1 at 1:47
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A problem I see is that there aren't a lot of minutes being freed, even if Nocioni were to be bought out, but a lot of roles are still set to increase. That problem is solved if Thad is stolen away. If he isn't, then a trade of Lou seems fairly sensible since he'll likely seek a larger role when he opts out.

I say strike while the iron is hot. If Danny Ainge and the Celtics are any indicator, then there are going to be a lot of desperate teams out there (Rondo/Green for Westbrook/Perkins? Really?). The Hawks will need some life in their back-court if they lose Jamal Crawford, and are also seemingly ready to move on from Josh Smith. Phoenix already lost Aaron Brooks the China. Throw Lou's name out there and see what bites.

Well it's good to see his hair isn't out of place. No I'm not confident, this is a guy who thought that brook lopez and travis outlaw were both above average nba players, so my hope for the season is they don't trade Iguodala and Thorn retires at the end of the year. And then the Sixers bring in a gm who isn't seventy, and who knows what advanced stats are and can talk about them instead of just saying oh yeah, we have a person who looks at that stuff.

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marcus on Dec 1 at 1:30
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We can look forward to seeing will Smith & his family @ a couple of games might help the team get some publicity lol

Is Iguodala concidered a hold over also? Why don't you have a problem with keeping him?

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Tray reply to KellyDad on Dec 1 at 3:16
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That's different. And really, it is different. Iguodala's a really good (if sometimes, sorry folks, passive) player. He's not perfect, you can't build a whole team around him, but you certainly can build with him. Anyway, I entirely agree with Brian's post, but would expect ownership to bring in their own guy in a year or two, and am very confident they'll be hiring some stats people to assist Thorn. Not every smart team is run by a Cho or Morey or Presti. So long as Thorn is open to the advice he's given by the stats people, it could work out.

I know people here think Broussard is a lousy reporter, and anything that isn't LeBron, he probably is, but this is pretty interesting, potentially league-transforming "news."

http://clipperblog.com/2011/11/29/player-hating-and-speculating/

I like Thorn, I think he's better than Presti, who is very overrated IMO. Presti made two good decisions, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka. Westbrook showed serious flaws in the playoffs and Presti is about to overpay him with a max contract he doesn't deserve. Presti stumbled upon Kevin Durant, who is the obvious main reason OKC is any good. Presti's drafts of Jeff Green, Sebolosha and Cole Aldrich were atrocious. The contract he gave Kendrick Perkins was asinine.

Presti didn't draft Sefolosha. The sixers did. And Sefolosha is a decent player for a 16th pick in the draft.

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Charlie H reply to Xsago on Dec 3 at 18:46
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Sefalosha was taken for Chicago (not Seattle) and Carney for the Sixers.

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Cin reply to Tray on Dec 1 at 14:36
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Ainge came out today about how much they love Rondo - gotta love leaks :)

Billy King made one of those comments that 'denies' without denying - he didn't say they weren't considering offering to howard, just that they hadn't talked to the magic about howard (which i don't think they even can do yet?)

There's nothing saying they can't talk to other teams, I think they could've been talking to Orlando during the entire lockout, they just couldn't talk to dwight to see if he'd sign the extension.

But Brian's reasons for not wanting Thorn back also define Iguodala. If not even more. Iguodala has a longer tenure here and for whatever reason has rubbed more people the wrong way. What would be "more of the same" than Iguodala coming back for his 8th season, averaging 15,6,6 and the team going .500?

Could the difference be that one is a decisionmaker on personnel and the other one is just a player? Just a thought.

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deepsixersuede on Dec 1 at 7:52
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I think Thorn and Collins are tied at the hip and Collins' popularity in this city disallowed the owners from cleaning house after their deal was okayed by the league, especially in this abbreviated lockout situation.

I expect no real changes till Collins leaves than Levian will put his stamp on things.

If the 'popularity' of DOug collins (remember the sixers are at best fourth most popular in the city and I am not even sure they are the most popular basketball team at that) prevented the owners from doing anything with Thorn than that's a bad sign for what the new owners represent. They're in charge, not doug friggin collins, who won't last more than a season or two as the head coach. I hope you're wrong cause if you're not than they are off to a horrible start in my opinion.

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deepsixersuede on Dec 1 at 7:56
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Does a L.Williams for Z.Pachulia deal work for both teams? I believe he is 26 or 27 and could create the 3 headed center rotation ala the old Milwaukee Bucks teams.

That's a horrible deal IMO. Zaza is a passable backup center, but Lou has to have more value than that.

I would trade Lou for a bar of soap. Addition by subtraction.

Addition by substraction doesn't mean you shouldn't try and get as much as possible for him.

And no i don't think trading Lou is addition by substraction by itself. Lou has his annoying weaknessees, but he was a significant part of what the sixers did last year. Despite all the hate he gets, he was/is one of the best bench players in the NBA. Possibly a top 150 player in the league. And he is not overpayed with his current contract. There is a market for him and you can bring something of value back. Why not do it.

I disagree with this premise, Lou adds something positive to the sixers, is it something they 'need', not really. I wouldn't trade Lou for another 'guy' but if future assets are obtainable, then yeah, get them.

The sixers really have a lot of guys who would help a contending team but none that make a team a contender

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sooner on Dec 1 at 8:01
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When I found out who Jason Levien is I thought he would become the gm/president of the team. I'm curious to know how much say he will or won't have in personnel decisions or if the plan is to eventually have him be the decision maker relatively soon?

I know Thorn has a history of making some pretty big moves in his day but in my opinion I do doubt that he would make the right big move for this team right now. But we will see I guess

Thorn was brought back for a reason. The new ownership came in in the midst of a lockout and nobody knew when will things start rolling again. They simply didn't want to jeopardize the progress the franchise made just by putting someone completely new at the helm who won't be able to properly evaluate the team before he makes a decision. You can only do so much from tape. You need to see these players face to face, talk to them etc. That's why Thorn will remain at the helm for the time being to provide some continuity and stability.

Next year we'll see what happens.

Of course this is just my perspective at the situation, doesn't mean i am right.

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215bro on Dec 1 at 8:31
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yo - these new owners are successful business bros. harris is a B.S.D. and has made lots of money by number crunching. i think they will make some shrewd business decisions and get this franchise back on the right tracks quicker than ya'll think.

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Tom Moore on Dec 1 at 9:56
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Lou Williams has already come and gone this morning at PCOM. No other Sixers have showed up so far.

All of you Lou haters are ridiculous...The guy just turned 25. He is a phenomenal scorer. His next 3 years should be his 3 best, and he is already the best scorer on this team. He did just about everything that Collins asked of him last year, including winning a playoff game vs. the Heat for us. There were so many times last year where the Sixers were on massive scoring droughts and the only guy with the confidence and ability to bail them out was Lou. If you want to say that he takes the ball out of Jrue's hands, that's fine, but that's absolutely not his fault. He's doing what he's asked. This is a great 6th man we have, and the amount he gets crapped on, on this board, makes me sick. Probably has something to do with his rapping as well.

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MikeW reply to MikeW on Dec 1 at 10:02
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Also, maybe you guys didn't know this, but HE'S A BOSS

I'm pretty sure people didn't like Lou before his rap videos hit YouTube, but what you say about him doing what Collins asked is correct. I don't think they should be shopping him simply to get rid of him, he's valuable. At the same time, I'd be happy if they traded him to fill a more important hole in the roster.

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timx reply to MikeW on Dec 1 at 11:04
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I agree, I actually want to see Lou start for this team at the two! If Collins could reel him in a bit and make sure the offense goes through Jrue and Dre, it would ultimately make this team that much better. With a 2nd team of ET, Meeks, Thad, and whatever other bigs they acquire. Huge matchup problems for most teams in the league.

The word is 'continuity' - Did the word bother you when it was used yesterday - it did me - everything Thorn says smells like 'same old same old' to me - the billy king era - maintaining that 8 seed being more important than building for the future even if it means a down year.

I've come to terms with what Lou is and what he isn't (though the sixers still ask him to be what he isn't) much like I came to terms with Sam Dalembert when he was here. I wouldn't be sorry to see Lou go because he isn't the difference between winning and losing a title here, in fact no one is really, and I think Lou is a rotation guy on a team with depth (like the mavs or bulls for instance). Him playing a bigger role here is due to a lack of depth/talent, not because they love Lou in my opinion.

As for the 'well iguodala has been here longer':

A. He's done more for the sixers franchise than rod thorn has - even while rod thorn has been here Iguodala has done more at his job than Thorn has done at his

B. Thorn didn't exactly end his run in new jersey on a run of hits (I still think he only took the job because of proximity to his home)

C. Rumors were that Thorn wanted to move Iguodala on draft night typeish moves and new ownership vetoed it, so yuo can't hold that against Thorn if he was told no, can you?

D. As for Alex Kennedy, he works for hoopsworld, mock him if you will, he's paid to cover basketball and he has contacts in the Orlando organization, but lou to the magic for a big man violates one of the basic (stupid) tenets of basketball

I see the Lou discussion- is it related to:

http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA/status/142105111194378240

I presumed so, see the first comment in the thread :)

If Lou is on the trading block, isn't Chicago the ideal trading partner? From what I've read, Chicago is looking for an affordable guard who can create his own shot. And if they can't get Mayo or Afflalo, Lou should make a nice consolation prize.

Asik + CJ Watson for Lou

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=89ahurb

I tried using Pargo instead of Watson as that probably makes the deal more 'realistic', but the salaries didn't match. I know this goes against the rule about trading big for small... but it seems kind of sensible for both sides no? I would try for Gibson first of course, but Asik would still be a huge upgrade over Hawes.

Isn't the type of guy chicago needs a guy who can create his own shot off the pass - not the dribble - they have drose but they need a guy who can be more like korver (and also play defense).

My understanding was that chicago had two guys, on was just too bad defensively but ok offensively and the other was too bad offensively but ok defensively, lou is bad defensively

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raro reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 12:16
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I think Lou would make a pretty good catch and shoot player for the Bulls; someone who fits in between the two extremes of Korver (all offense, no defense) and Bogans (no offense, all defense). He's certainly a better player than N. Young!

And with the awesome front-court of Noah and Gibson, you can hide an average defensive player... Maybe? But really, all of this comes down to me desperately wanting the Sixers to upgrade the C position with some young talent, and not Kwame.

You don't think the great voose is an upgrade?

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raro reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 12:26
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not holding my breath for the great Voose... Though he does have a great nickname!

Asik holds much more value than that.

But I do think Lou is a very good fit for them. What they lack, in my mind, is anyone at all who can create offense when Rose is off the floor. They could also use someone to allow Rose to take a couple of possessions off when he's on the floor. Lou can do that for them.

Wouldn't Thibodeau kill lou though?

Collins didn't kill him. Thibodeau didn't kill Boozer. You can hide one guy.

You've got a point, and I agree that Asik is worth more than just Lou Williams, asik (to me) is the type of asset / player the sixers should be looking for in trades.

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raro reply to Brian on Dec 1 at 12:23
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No doubt about that, but he's the kind of player we need to target. The problem here is that Lou is probably our best and only bargaining chip. I'd offer Speights as well as another instant offense kind of guy? I don't see that happening.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86rs4pe

ugh.

I'd definitely do that. The Bulls would have to be pretty desperate for offense, though.

Lou Williams: Quality Inn offense, EconoLodge defense, Hyatt Regency persona.

Is both expendable and intermittently useful (depending on supply of Maalox... "It's a relief to enjoy life.").

I would like to see ET step into the 6th man role behind J/M/I. That is what makes sense about trading Lou. But I hope they get something usefull in return.

You mean 6/7 man w/ Thad, right? Or do you think he's gone?

I mean backing up the PG/SG/SF positions. I think every 3 player combo of those 4 players works well in terms of complementary skills. But I'm also assuming Meeks will improve some.

I've posted this before

Jrue: 35 min
Meeks: 30 min
Iguodala: 35 min

ET: 30+ minutes at all 3 positions.
That would leave some spot minutes for either Thad or Brackins at SF or maybe they bring in another bench shooter/specialist.

yeah, that would leave about 14 minutes to use somewhere. It might be a problem having only one guy to backup all three positions. I guess they can always sign willie green.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Dec 1 at 14:20
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We can bring back WG, Sam and Smith.

I'm pretty sure the Nets are going to amnesty Travis Outlaw so BK can offer Green the full MLE. That's his secret weapon in convincing Williams to say, and Howard to come to NJ/Brooklyn.

YAHTZEE!!!!

Makes sense for a guard who scorched the nets while making franchise record 12 straight shots vs Suns in playoff-riding game in April. I bet Deron Williams and Lou Williams never did that, even in high school. Willie G!!!

Ownership: Who knows at this point? Stefanski & Hip-Hop were gimmes. Now and forward comes the test.

On leadership, don't know how anyone can be excited by Rod Thorn. He personifies "twilight."

Doug Collins, 1 yr shorter in horizon... will he again be the Pied Piper on second spin around? History asks.


Wilbon (Chicago Homer) wrote something about what the Bulls need (offense) and how they really can't afford it.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 16:39
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I think I'll send ESPN a piece about the Prada coat I can't afford (right now), see if they publish it/you link to it.

Hmm...if only that link to the wilbon article were relevant to an earlier discussion regarding the bulls needs and louis williams.

The fact that you would know the price of a prada coat, or want one, tells me more than i ever wanted to know about your whacked priorities.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 20:20
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$1770, or 1% of my 2013 base pay,

Do the Bulls want a mini-Rose? I think shooters or solid offensive big men make more sense.

YOur trade broke the machine :)

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tk76 reply to stan on Dec 1 at 19:14
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Sounds great. So you'd be left with Brand, Dwight and CP3. This 3 come to 51M, so that leaves you some pocket change to fill out the other 10 players... or you could amnesty Brand and try and add another max contract :)

Actually after the season you're left with a bunch of cap room - howard and paul opt out and brand is amnestied

Check it out - THAT"S blowing it all up :)

Genius

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 20:28
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Exactly! If Dwight and Paul leaves we basically have 58 million in cap space. Hello Dano.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 1 at 20:26
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No. You us the amnesty clause on Elton Brand and have 24 million to sign 10 players before you hit the 58 million cap.,

So I read that CP3 has "requested" a trade to the Knicks.

Of course the Knicks have absolutely nothing to offer. So I guess it plays out like it did with Amare... CP3 refuses to sign an extension with anyone but the Knicks, so the offers available to the Hornets will be minimal (a 1 year rental price.)

We will see how this plays out. But from the looks of it the new CBA has no teeth- at least for the next 2 season. Absolutely nothing has changed- the stars will dictate which cities get superteams and the rest of the cities get to root for their local Washington Generals.

I sort of wish Stern would have held out for real change- or maybe it is just 2 years away.

Stern wouldn't have gotten a season if he hadn't put that two year thing in there - in fact this two year thing is really about 3 players - deron, dwight, and chris paul (which is kind of pathetic)

Dwight will do the same, maybe even deron, but pauls case is more interesting because of who 'owns' the hornets.

The best for the franchise is to get assets, but that ain't good for the nba ::)

The Knicks literally have zero assets. There are going to be teams who will top the Knicks offer for a one-year rental of CP3. I don't see it happening unless he waits for free agency and takes a boatload of less money to play there.

But you don't get much for a rental...that's the problem

You get more than what the Knicks have to offer. That's the point. Any team can put together more than what the Knicks have to offer, and someone will. I don't think he can force his way to the Knicks via trade, he's going to have to wait it out. The Knicks have such garbage to offer, I hope the Hornets or whoever else he winds up with won't even do a sign and trade. Fuck him.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 1 at 23:17
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Exactly. If I were in New Orleans shoes I wouldn't trade him to New York even for the scrap that they do have- Landry Fields, Tony Douglas and expiring contracts. If he wants to go to NY, then he can sign there as a free agent and take less money.

It would be interesting to see Chris Paul take a "discount" deal of about 14 million his first year and see the Knicks fill 9 rosters spots with 4 million dollars and a MLE.

Isn't the minimum deal worth at least 800k?

Yeah, they can't offer Paul the max. They'll be a couple million short. I could see some bullshit off-court deal between the three of them, though. Whatever.

Brian don't angry eagle post tonight :)

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 1 at 23:12
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Please don't. I'm avoiding all Eagles media for the rest of the season.

I wonder what Paul would do in the open market. I wonder how committed he will be to NY when they can only offer him 10-14 million a year. If he turns them down he should be regarded lesser than Lebron.

Here are six trades that would clearly be rentals, but are better packages than the absolute best NYK can do for Chris Paul:

ATL

ORL

IND

POR

SAS

and finally...

LAC. The Clippers could part with two expiring contracts plus Minnesota's #1 pick next summer for a one-year rental of CP3 in the hopes that playing a year with both Blake and Gordon, CP3 would want to stay.

Every one of these offers is better than the absolute best the Knicks can offer, and every one of these offers is also something I think the teams would probably be willing to give up for one year of CP3 without the guarantee of an extension, with the possible exception of Indy, who isn't really close enough to contention for him to make a huge difference and doesn't have a strong case to make for CP3 to stay there w/ an extension.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 0:04
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I still like my blowup idea better :)

But I would like to see him go to Orlando. I could live with that.

Colin Cowherd and Brian agree about the clippers and chris paul

The apocalypse is nigh


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