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Pressing Questions - December 2, 2011

My assumption is that the plan is:

C: Make incremental improvements to the roster while keeping future cap flexibility in place

One thing has been bothering me ever since i read the general ideas in the new CBA and i think it affects teams when making their long term plans quite a bit. It's the new minimum salary rule. With 85% this year and 90% later, it's going to be extremely hard for teams going for rebuilding through the draft options to meet the criteria. That's 6-10 million of salary more than it was in the previous CBA and that's a significant jump IMO. I wonder if teams are force to sign guys to bad contracts just to get to the limit. For example if the Hornets decide to trade Paul for young talent and expirings, there is a good chance they will not be able to meet the 90% threshold next season with a young roster. Basically teams are forced to not tank too much. This complicates things for teams willing to go into rebuild mode.

sooner reply to Xsago on Dec 2 at 8:18

I'm not sure but I think if a team is under the salary cap floor they have to give extra money to the players on their roster to reach that floor. I maybe wrong but I believe the kings were either in danger of having to do this or did do this last year.

Thi Kings made a trade with Boston (getting Daniels for a conditional second round pick) in order to go over the limit.

C. I just wondering if getting rid or Iguodala, Brand and Nocioni equal "tearing it down"?

I meant option C.

Eugene on Dec 2 at 6:36

i'd like to see D12 in Philly next season. and now i see how good he can be with Jrue Holiday and ET.

sorry for my english tho :]

Probably C.

Their only realistic options are to either Bowe it up now or hold for two years and then go for it. And the blow it up route probably implies to much pain for right more.

Derick summed up the options well at Lb- and while I'd other the more aggregative route, I'm also fine with C.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Dec 2 at 6:59

Sorry, trying to learn how to type quickly on my phone with Swype.Not so good...

deepsixersuede on Dec 2 at 8:05

I think it definitely is option C, and after battling Miami in the playoffs I can't blame them for thinking they may be pretty good.

If Turner earns a starting spot and Collins continues to put in good defensive principles the trio of Jrue,Turner and Iggy could lock up teams best perimeter scorers on most nights.

And if Vucevic is as good a team defensive player as Collins professes maybe our bigs can hold their end up too. Even Hawes had his moments last year. Imagine Sam backing up those 3 perimeter guys.

And finally we had a good bench last year and if Thad is back that should continue. That is the tweek I expect Thorn to make, finding an Iavoroni type to do the dirty work and screening to free up Lou and Thad.

There's no way Thorn or Collins would be on board with A or B. C's probably the best description, although D could be possible depending on how close they think they are.

sooner on Dec 2 at 8:32

I hope A or B but its probably C or D. If they went with A I'd assume they would be trying to acquire a superstar now to pair with another super star during next seasons free agency. But would the sixers have enough talent left after trading for a superstar to retain said player and convince another to join the team?

Now if in the process of trading all of the sixers best talent for this superstar the front office was able to keep their 1st rnd pick(unlikely). Which could end up being a very high pick (because I'd assume the sixers wouldn't be a very good team right off the bat after the trade). They could bring in a very good player from the upcoming draft class and maybe entice the two stars to sign with them.

I think their best chance to accomplish option A would be to do anything you can to get howard and then sign deron williams. Because it sounds like cp3 is deadest on going to the knicks.

Here's the link to my latest over on SB Nation Philly. It's on the opportunity Harris & co have, and how we'll get a pretty good idea very soon how they're going to use it.

elf reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 10:37

Of the 2 choices wich one is the most realistic ?

x)try to get minesota 1st pick thru trade with the clippers, using Thad(highly difficult) or Iggy (kind of easy) and let the young guns learn thru their mistakes and next draft get the pieces to complement Jrue and ET with 2 high picks and then amnesety Brand.


y) developt our monster perimeter D and some shooting and next year amnesety Brand and try to sell the team to Dwight Howard as he is the missing piece to a championship

I usually don't care for Moore, but I agree w/ this piece.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 9:45

A great idea in that article. It reminds me of a line from Hoosiers;" Lets' win one for all the small schools [markets]." Wouldn't the league,as New Orleans owners, pull the trigger on that right away?

I would absolutely love that trade even if i am a Sixers fan and it means a possible creation of a dynasty in the East. I am tired of players holding small market teams as hostages.

I don't think it's possible though since i believe in the end some of the other contenders will come up with a better offer than Orlando could possibly offer.

One of the more interesting things that came out of the lockout is possibly the change of power in the NBA. In the past the league i think wanted superstars teaming up and going to big market teams. It provided unprecedented growth for the league as evidenced with the Heat-mania. Things may have changed now though. And if that is the case the NBA owned Hornets may actually agree to a deal like that. I don't think it was possible in the past.

In the past the league i think wanted superstars teaming up and going to big market teams.

And they still do, no matter what BS they spout to make small market owners happy and keep them quiet.

Big Market Teams have big tv markets
Superstars teaming up in bigger markets means bigger ratings on the national tv deal
that means more money form TNT ESPN and whomever else decides they want a piece of the nba

It's the dirty secret, super star team ups in big markets are better for the NBA then a 'level playing' field where you could end up with a Milwaukee Utah final. Of course they don't say it publicly because it's anathema, but the NBA WANTS the knicks to contend for a title shot, preferably against the lakers.

I wonder how much the star can trump the market. Like, if OKC makes the finals against Miami, is that going to draw a significantly smaller audience than Miami vs. LA? Honest question, my gut says it would be smaller, but not significantly so, because people would tune in to see Durant.

I think it would be smaller because the ratings 'increases' in general (to me) don't come from the real or even interested nba fan but the casual fan, and they know LA and NY just as teams - with history - even if it's really old - maybe they know kevin durant. I think an OKC final is like a Spurs final, i mean casual folk knew robinson and duncan, but they'd more likely tune in for the 'big guys' and Durant ain't one of the big guys (in name recognition to the casual nba fan) as much yet.

I think Chicago would draw better than OKC not because of any player but because of the 'jordan history' effect on the casual fan

In todays age and even more in the future you don't need to be part of a market to be a fan of a team. The international growth especially, hugely impacts this. TV deals i think will more and more be related to the actual team and it's star power than the size of the market the team is in. And nothing makes a team to a casual fan outside of the 30 directly impacted markets interesting like winning.

And I think you're wrong, and the ratings of recent nba finals demonstrate that.

The casual fan doesn't follow a team, the casual fan watches the playoffs on tv, maybe watches the games on christmas

The most important metric to the NBA for the forseeable future is their tv deal - which is based on playoff ratings usually - and the big markets / big history teams have been shown to get higher ratings, and there's no evidence apparent that it's going to change.

The nba can talk about being global, the nfl can play in london (stupid) every year, mlb can open in japan, but in the end, for the forseeable future, the majority of the money these leagues make is on their US tv deals...and I see no reason or actual evidence that that's going to change any time soon no matter the 'predictions' that have been made for a long time...and still haven't come true.

I don't buy your premise, because I don't believe the NBA really cares about competitiveness for all teams, that was a smoke screen, it wasn't about competitiveness it was about money - not losing 300 million dollars a season, the nba wants all their teams to make money - and a bigger tv deal would accomplish that more than competitiveness

The dirty secret is that dynasties tend to get bigger ratings

And i think you are wrong. The globalization is much stronger every year. And in 5-10 years the situation will be dramatically different than it was 5-10 years ago. The true impact of outer markets (international + US without a team) only started some 3 years ago IMO.

Anyway didn't the Dallas - Miami series have higher ratings than the Lakers - Celtics series? I don't have the data, correct me if i am wrong. And Dallas and Miami are both smaller markets than Los Angeles and Boston.

Do you honestly believe that a say Knicks - Clippers final would have a better rating than a Thunder - Magic one just because their markets are bigger? It's all about the players and winning. Fans will follow the winning teams with the most attractive players.

And to be honest there is no substantial data to suggest that small market teams can't have good ratings globally. The only non big market finalist over the past few years were the Magic and nobody really expected that series to be even at all.

As for Christmas games i agree about them, they are all about the US, fans in China for example couldn't care less about Christmas...

And there you go, as if i knew what was going to happen, the Magic - Thunder was just scheduled as a Christmas game.

So what's the plan again?

1. buyout Nocioni
2. Hold the amnesty card until next year
3. try and resign Thad for 7-8m
4. bite the bullet on this season and let Jrue, Evan and Iggy try and figure it out
5. Amnesty Brand next summer?
6. have $25m in cap room to add the missing piece next summer?

I'm trying to piece it all together. If that is the plan I am super down with it.

I'm guessing that's the general idea. Resigning Thad and amnestying Brand are not a given though.

The Greek reply to csth on Dec 2 at 10:30

That's a solid plan, using the amnesty clause on Noc would be a stupid decision.

Stan reply to csth on Dec 2 at 10:42

That's pretty much what I want to see as well. Although I don't think we can find the "missing piece" in free agency. After the big three there aren't any big free agents. The 2013 NBA free agent market looks pretty bleak as well.

In 2012 I would trade Iguodala and build with Jrue and Evan.

I think the general idea of trying to squeeze as many wins this year with a young roster and try to sign a superstar free agent next year is a relatively good plan. Philadelphia is a big enough market that convincing a superstar to join a young promising team shouldn't be impossible.

The problem with the plan though is the free agents that are available. They are either:

- point guards (which is possibly the only position where the team is set long term)
- the best center in the league (a guy who virtually every team in the league will try to sign)
- a restricted FA power forward (every offer would likely be matched)

2012 is possibly the best year to have cap space in, but basically the Sixers have very little chance to use it on a worthy guy. It's a tricky situation and unless something significantly changes the Sixers will be in a very tough position next summer. There is hope though.

Organization seems reluctant, no, averse, make that, critically obstinate to the idea of emptying its cart for a season or two, taking on the financial hit/PR riddle, in order to build something better with fresh and seriously impacting products. Agree with those who say option C.

D is an interesting option though not likely to be advisable for a 41-win team with no significant personnel changes outside of Stanford question mark Nikola Vucevic and Temple prayer Lavoy Allen.

"Internal growth" of '65-'66 Sixers happened when someone named Wilt was acquired on 1/15/65 and blocked, passed, banked, dunked & shovel-shotted team to all-time greatness. "Internal growth" of '81-'82 edition happened when a guy named Moses arrived on 9/2/82 and parted the lane with admirable, grunting, perspiring regularity and basketball know-how in '82-'83, another season of spectacular results. The rest, as they say, is 'small case' history.

deepsixersuede on Dec 2 at 11:24

Assuming things fall into place this year in a positive way; Jrue and Turner improve and show bigtime promise, Thad signs a reasonable deal, and either Vucevic or Hawes show they are capable of giving a good 24 minutes at the 5 how does this team stack league wide next year with Elton becoming an expiring contract?

Is there an option of moving Elton for a star were not thinking off for a team that may need to clear salary? Preferably a p.f. ? Elton expiring at that time should be a real good chip to play.

We don't just need a star. We need a young star because our remaining core players are all under 25 (except Iguodala if he stays).

And you don't get them in trades or free agency these days :)

Some teams do, just not the Sixers. Unless Harris can somehow demonstrate that Philly is an attractive destination.

Well 'young' stars to me are the guys about to get their first non rookie deal - not a guy like lebron - but a guy like durant, or rose - and guys like that don't usually leave for their 'first' big contract - it's the second one.

I mean sure getting lebron on this team would have been awesome but he's more on the 'iguodala' career arc than the holiday career arc. So I should have been clear what i meant on young stars.

Lottery luck seems to be the best way :)

When i say young i don't necessarily mean guys at the end of their rookie deal. I mean guys whose prime will coincide with the prime of our guys. Basically we are talking 26 or younger. Howard, Paul, Deron Williams all of them qualify as young stars in my mind because they will still be in their prime when Holiday or Turner hit theirs in a few years. What i don't want are 29-30 year old stars. Those are useless to the team as currently constructed.

Just to be clear, I'm talkin' about adjusting book by moving 'names' for a big 'get' (like others find ways to do), not goin' in dumpster simply for an iffy pick.

The knicks got carmelo because that's the only place he wanted to go.

The nets deal for Deron Williams was not beatable by the sixers unless you wanted to give up Jrue Holiday since Evan Turner even then was a disappointing draft pick

People keep tlaking about the sixers like they have significant trade assets, and I don't believe they do.

Elton Brand is an aging PF who might help a contender

Iguodala is the best player but he's not a 'central figure' type player he needs stars around him to be maximized

Jrue Holiday - you can't really trade him because he's your best young player

That's it - those are the assets I see the sixers having to trade - you aren't getting a 'big get' with that little to offer a team in return, the only hope would be is if some star decided they only wanted to play in philly and then the sixers would have some negotiating room but in an 'open market' i don't see the sixers having enough assets to GET a big get and then get the big get to stay AND be better than an 8 seed

Unless they convince a big get he wants to be here and the big get is a free agent. Then all you need is the cap space and a second round pick to do a sign-and-trade.

deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Dec 2 at 12:44

I was thinking a Z. Randolph level player. But if Turner and Jrue don't reach Iggy's level that isn't worth doing. We need some of our young guys to pan out.

I don't buy that you could necessarily tell the difference between A and C.

Given the minimum spend requirement is so close to the cap, I think the profile of a team doing everything it can to secure a top notch star will be different from what it looked like previously.

Now I think the premium is on having high priced contracts that provide value on the court, but can be dumped when the right opportunity presents itself - or having large expiring contracts.

The Sixers are really well positioned from that standpoint. They will actually have at least one sometimes 3 big contracts - Noce, EB, Dre - they could move quickly whenever an opportunity presents itself. Come July, thru trade and/or amnesty they could easily drop salary. Dre is tradable on talent, EB and Noce as expiring contracts.

For the next 30 months, they have great flexibility to seize an opportunity if one presents itself. The only way to screw it up would be to amnesty Noce now and waste the amnesty. If Noce wants a buyout, fine.

In the short term, the focus needs to be on the growth of our young talent and being more competitive on the court - so that a free agent sees the possibilities in playing here. Then, your alpha FA - the ones who think they are head and shoulders above the rest and can lead a team to a championship against one of these faux creations like NY or Miami - just might want to come here. [maybe even Dwight Howard if the Sixers could win a playoff round and take the Heat to 6 games this year]

Either way, I think what we viewed as 'jail' previously with these contracts is now an advantage.

I don't care who they go after, or how much they pay them, as long as any marginal guys are signed to one year deals.

Hmm Christmas Day

Magic Thunder

Warriors, really? Couldn't find a single team with an 'attraction' beyond the warrios to match up against the griffin wunderkind?

deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 2 at 12:41

How many times does Jerry West get on camera?

Crimeny - is he working for the warriors now? I totally forgot that - I guess that's the allure?

I mean i can see the reason for every team listed on christmas day BUT the warriors, even if it is the espn late game, there really are no other west coast teams with a draw any more are there? Maybe the spurs would be the best option of any draw?

The Monta matinee.

Except that it's most likely a 10 pm eastern start on ESPN :)

Oh wait, I forgot that former ESPN/ABC commentator and savior (with no coaching experience on any level) Marc Jackson is now coaching the warriors, they're doing a solid to their former dude I guess

ABC, TNT and ESPN all have games on christmas day

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 2 at 19:04

It's a decent matchup, for the reason that they can't actually make the Clippers play a good team. Then the game wouldn't be close. So they have the Clippers play an entertaining bad team, and GSW is entertaining. Curry's a really good player, and Monta, though inefficient, is a great deal of fun to watch and put up stats comparable to Rose last year, at least as a scorer. (Note that this is NOT an endorsement of trading for Monta, a statement that he's a top 5 shooting guard in the league, or an All-Star, just that he is (a) a good player and (b) a solid undercard attraction.) I could see the argument for playing them against Denver or the Suns, or Houston for that matter, but there's no one player on Denver that anyone will tune in to see, and Phoenix isn't really a team of the moment anymore. And Kevin Martin is a more esoteric taste among NBA fans than Curry-Ellis.


On Melo - do you know that as fact? Philly's a short trip to home. (Not that his presence unlocks championship safe.)

Jrue can't be traded? Absurd. 'O', "Pistol", "Pearl", Nate Archibald, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd were, to name a few.

See your general point about Sixers' less-than-dreamy assets but creativity and audacity - using quantitative shipment, cash incentive and future considerations - is an avenue untried. The Grumpy Old Men administrative/head coaching route will take 'em exactly nowhere imo.

If you trade for a star but have nothing to put around him - what's the point - you lose him in free agency.

I know that Melo made it clear he'd only sign an extension with New York - everyone knew it

The "right star" can turn "nothings" into "somethings", i.e., Nowitzki, Jose Barea; Kobe, Jordan Farmar; Pierce, Eddie House; Duncan, Brent Barry.

Which one of those guys won a title with just nothings?

It takes more than one star to win a title - not guys 'elevated' but the star around them but stars in their own right

Kobe - Shaq, Pau Gasol
Duncan - quite a few of them
Nowitzki had above average players around him last year and for his career

Dwight Howard wants out, Chris Paul want sout because (partly) they know they can't do it alone without another star

Drats. Guessed you'd go there. Point anticipated and taken.

Howard & Paul are pushing buttons to move, in part, because it's become trendy among peers. Chasing rainbows.

I think they're pushing buttons because they want to win titles and maximize contracts

If you played for orlando or nw orleans would you have faith they could build a team that could make a finals appearance in your career life time - let alone win one?

Otis Smith has demonstrated he's clueless (to me) on how to build around dwight howard

The NBA runs the hornets so they won't ever pay the luxury tax and their stupid dogmatic determination to keep the team in New Orleans prevents a sale to an owner who would put winning above cost certainty

These guys (to me) are both more justified in their pushes out of their teams than Carmelo (you're whipped boy, you're WHIPPED) was in pushing out of Denver, denver had shown they had a better idea than either New Orleans or Orlando.

If Thad is re-signed and we basically have the same roster as last season, I hope Collins gives serious thought to starting Brand at the five. JH, JM, AI, TY and EB was such a dominant lineup for them last season.


Here's a question for you, if you were betting today, who finishes their career with more titles: LeBron James or Dwight Howard?


Lebron 1, with buckets of tears like the ol' TV show
"Queen For A Day."

Dwight 2, with beamings of delight like the ol' TV show
"Gomer Pyle USMC."

Both guestimates assuming 1A & 1B teammates are made of steel.

stan reply to Brian on Dec 2 at 14:39


Ryan F reply to Brian on Dec 3 at 0:01

Howard. History shows big men win championships, especially when theyre that dominant.

Dollar Bill is an interesting addition to the commenters... Unique vocabulary and typing pattern. J.R. Writer-esque

"Dollar Bill" is "Ty Game" from last year or JJG from years before ... I would recognize the writing style anywhere (impressive vocabulary, sharp wit, concise thoughts) ... agree he's always an entertaining read, though I'm often on the opposite side opinion-wise.

The Greek reply to Statman on Dec 3 at 13:25

JJG, dollar bill, Tygame or whatever his name currently is, he's a real deal fan who has been a sixers fan for longer then most of us have been alive. He's to be respected unlike the people that that jumped on the Iverson bandwagon and think that they know everything about basketball.

Sounds like you know him personally.

Option A.

Step 1- Resign Thad

Step 2- Trade Jrue, Turner, Thad, Iguodala, Lou, and Nocioni, 1st round draft pick, and a 2nd round draft pick for Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Daniel Orton and Quincy Pondexter.

Step 3- Use the amnesty clause on Elton Brand

Step 4- Fill out roster with free agents, Arron Affalo, Teyshaun Prince, Reggie Williams, etc..

Step 5- Watch Dwight Howard and Chris Paul walk in free agency.

Step 6- Offer max contracts to Kevin Love, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, Andrew Bynum, and Russell Westbrook

Step 7- Get rejected by those players.

Step 8- overpay Danilo, O.J. Mayo, Michael Beasley, and Roy Hibbert to retain some sense of pride.

The entertainment value of this would be well worth it. Daniloooo!

Love the rumor season

Today, Chris Paul knows the knicks have nothing to trade for him and wouldn't insult the hornets by asking them to make a trade to NY happen.

UPDATE: One of Lewis' agents told The Washington Post that he has been informed by the Wizards that they are not going to use the amnesty provision this season on their client.
"I spoke to Washington and there is no indication they will use their amnesty on Rashard," said Colin Bryant. "They have assured us they will not use the amnesty on him and he is going to be a big part of their plans now and in the future."
Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld said Thursday "in all likelihood we won't amnesty anybody this year."

Not sure why they wouldn't amnesty Rashard. I thought this was a drop dead certainty. They stink, they aren't going anywhere, he doesn't really help at all and maybe someone picks him up in the silent auction 'cheap' so you don't have to pay the whole deal.

I honestly thought that Rashard Lewis was one of the no brainer amnesty calls (Gilbert Arenas, Brandon Roy, Luke Walton, Travis Outlaw rounding out my top 5). I'm shocked

Mike P reply to GoSixers on Dec 3 at 20:33

No reason to amnesty him.

Wiz suck this year, get another super high pick in a stacked draft and then amnesty him next year.

They are rebuilding by clearing cap space and getting a bunch of high draft picks.

That is such a weird concept.

Of course to answer the first question I'd like to see the Sixers blow it up, of course that is not going to happen. We will spend the year arguing about how good our not really all that great trio of SFs really are then argue if Andre Iguodala a franchise player/why we shouldn't trade him (that might be my favorite part of this site, the like 3 posts that Brian makes that are like "NO, HE IS THE BEST AND EVERYONE HATES HIM FOR NO REASON) and then get all excited when they barely make it into the playoffs and somehow manage to win one game against miami when Jrue Holiday goes nuts.

Then they'll lose, we'll get a crappy mid round pick again, and we'll continue being depressed.

My only two hopes for this season are for Nikki V to show some sort of basketball skill and Jrue to make another leap toward top point guardom.

Cin reply to Mike P on Dec 3 at 22:01

The argument for Iguodala isn't that he is a franchise player, it's that he's worth the second banana money he is being paid. He also seem to be more of a front office favorite around the league rather than fan favorite, which bodes well for a potential trade. If they amnesty Brand next year and trade Iguodala to a cap space team, that's basically blowing it up with the amount of money they'd be taking off the books.

Mike P reply to Cin on Dec 3 at 22:09

Blowing it up is only worth it if we can get something of value in return.

That is the biggest problem here. Iggy is not a bad player and really, objectively, his contract is only just a little bit off.

He's just been miscast as the leader of the franchise and then all of that was compounded when the Brand signing fell through like it did.

So just giving away one of the most athletic players in the league who plays spectacular defense is not something you just do.

I really want to just tank it up, but just giving away Iggy and letting Brand go for nothing isn't going to solve this. Brian's column on Philly SB had the right idea. If they be patient and use the amnesty correctly the rebuilding of the team could be done very shrewdly.

It's also a matter of luck if it comes down to ping pong balls sadly.

Cin reply to Mike P on Dec 3 at 22:27

The benefit of using the amnesty on Brand while simultaneously trading Iguodala to a cap team is taking as much salary off the books as possible to be free agent players. Hopefully at that point Holiday, Turner, and whoever else (ideally Williams and Young) are attractive enough pieces to bring in a high caliber free agent big man and some complimentary role players. Also trading Iguodala to a cap team isn't to give him away, it's a matter of not getting the equivalent amount of salary in return. You'd have to get something in return of course.

Mike P reply to Cin on Dec 3 at 22:31

Oh yeah, I am not against amnestying brand and trading Iggy, but there has to be some sort of plan in place and we'd have to get something of value back for Andre I.

We shouldn't think top tier FA's are going to come here though. Paul is set on going to NY and Dwight obviously wants to go to LA.

The Sixers have to develop through the draft and start a culture themselves.

Cin reply to Mike P on Dec 3 at 22:40

I agree, the elite free agents will decide where they want to go. Hopefully it's the team you root for, but it most likely isn't. Still something like JaVale McGee and Danilo Gallinari for non-max contracts isn't too bad a deal, although they'll both be RFA's. Or Eric Gordon, another RFA, at the 2 and slide Turner to the 3.

sober81 on Dec 2 at 17:20

Just watched a short video of Turner on sixers.com. They briefly showed him shooting with his new form. Definitively looked improved. The off hand is now in the proper position and the release is much quicker.

I can't get the video at work but part of the problem was his 'angle' wasn't it? The shot was flat and easy to block or something like that - is that changed?

sober81 reply to GoSixers on Dec 2 at 17:40

Hard to tell the arc from the camera angle but he definitely looked smoother and "normal", whereas his old jumper was odd looking.


Guessing you are talking about this one. It looks much better i gotta admit.

off hand definitely looks better. It'll be interesting whether that translates to the game when he's thinking about it less and whether it's muscle memory yet.

Charlie H reply to Derek Bodner on Dec 4 at 9:25

It's not a jumper though - he's shooting a set shot. If he can do that after jumping, I'll be convinced.

Cin reply to sober81 on Dec 2 at 18:53

From the Lou video it sounds like Evan really put work in this off-season. I think his twitter has something like "everyone else can rush but I'll wait to be perfect." Also seems like trading Lou would have the "Perkins Effect" on the team.

IMO there are 2 issues (an sorry to be long winded):

1. Going with J/T/I means you have no "shooter." That does not mean no one can hit a jumper, but none of them are what I would subjectively call a dangerous shooter that you are most concerned about leaving them open. None of them will make their living off of jumpers.

Can you think of a contending PG/SG/SF that lacked a true shooter? I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

2. Turner needs a respectable jumper to ever be an impact player. That is where this summer's work is important. But IMO, even if he develops a solid jumper it still does not make J/T/I fit as well as if you replace one with an equivalent talent who was a pure shooter.

you could say the same for Jrue. He needs a solid jumper to be an impact player, even though it is the the focus of his game. Fortunately, when he entered the league, Jrue's jumper is much better than advertised.

Iguodala is the only one of the 3 that has the athletic ability to be an impact player without ever developing a respectable jumper.

Agree 100% with this.

eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Dec 4 at 12:09

Totally agree with this. And why I sense that Doug will stay with Meeks as his starter to provide more floor balance. Doesn't mean that's who will see the more important minutes though. Should be interesting to see how it shakes out.

And also, someone mentioned the other day (think it was deepsixersuede?) that those three will be capable of shutting down most other backcourts around the league. That seems a bit of a stretch to say that given how much we saw Jrue struggle last year, Andre have his uncustomary occasional game off, and Turner having major mental lapses within the team defensive scheme.

Sans Andre when he's motivated to turn it up a notch(usually versus a star), neither of these guys are anywhere close to shut down ability.

deepsixersuede reply to eddies' heady's on Dec 4 at 12:21

My hope is if they share the offensive burden more it allows for more effort on the other end of the floor. Also I hope Vucevic is as advertised, a solid team defender who can clog the lane for them.

I thought in the playoffs against great wing players that Turner and Jrue showed great promise and hope they build off of that.

Sans Andre when he's motivated to turn it up a notch(usually versus a star), neither of these guys are anywhere close to shut down ability.

Saying Iguodala is only good when he turns it on is just asinine. Iguodala is a constant and I'd say this is a better description of how Jrue defended last season (excellent vs. the stars he was given one-on-one duties against, like Westbrook and Rose, less so against the average PGs).

As far as Turner, I don't know what to think, he had some terrible games, had some games where he showed a lot of promise, we'll just have to see where he winds up.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Dec 4 at 14:59

But I didn't say he's only good when he turns it on. I meant he's only of the shut down variety, as he's sort of proven the last couple of years when he goes up against a name player.

He's a shut down defender pretty much every time he steps on the floor. Saying anything short of that is just silly and you know it.

I think the correct argument is that it's not noticeable when he shuts down someone who isn't a significant player :)

Iguodala does as good of a job as anyone in locking down top offensive players. But the fact is that in general great offense from a wing trumps great defense in the NBA, unless you have a dominant lane defender backing you up.

Having J/T/I all be good defenders only gets you so far without quality interior defense a rebounding.

I'd say Jrue's struggles were probably 50 % his fault, 50 % not, which was scheme. Looking back at the Synergy, he really gets no kind of proper hedging from the big men. I will say that he does have to do a better job of not getting caught on screens, and making a decision whether to go over or under. Jrue really had almost as much burden defensively as Iguodala, maybe more.

How good of a shooter was Paul Peirce when he entered the league? I feel like ET can be a similar player. They basically have the same build and athleticism.

I think the answer is C or D. I continue to think that a superstar, or one of those superstars at least, coming here is a pipe dream. There are a ton of potential non-Philly destinations for these guys, between the Lakers, Clippers, Nets and whatever machinations the Knicks pull. It's a player-driven process and there's never been a whiff of speculation that any of those players would like to come to us.

Rich reply to Tray on Dec 2 at 19:12

"Us"? Be careful Tray. Aren't you not a Sixers fan anymore?

Completely agree. Dressing down our roster to go for Howard or Paul is like the Nets in 2010, ending up with Travis Outlaw and Jordan Farmar. We have a 0% chance to get Howard or Paul and it's absolutely ridiculous, in my humble opinion, to make decisions on our current roster based on thinking those guys might sign here. They won't.

A. For a team like the 76ers, you'll have to convince a star that they're the missing piece. That means developing your roster first so the star can slip right in and skip the youthful growing pains. Right now A isn't an option.

B. You don't tear something down that hasn't yet been determined to be a failure. Holiday and Turner are great prospects, Williams and Young already make one of the best bench duos, Iguodala has a few years left in his prime, and Brand is an excellent veteran placeholder who can be flipped for significant cap space next year.

C. Cap flexibility comes down to the trade worthiness of Iguodala and deciding when to erase Brand from the books. I think those are both considerations for next season, not this one.

D. This. Build on last year and find this rosters ceiling. They need a significant inside presence to seriously unlock their potential and keep all of Hawes/Speights/Brackins/Vucevic/Allen on the bench. I'd target next season and until then continue to develop a winning mentality within Holiday and Turner.

deepsixersuede on Dec 3 at 9:00

Guys, I agree there may be a 5 % chance of one of them stars coming here but how would you feel if our new management did this. First off, I believe this makes sense for both teams but this would be the last big move our roster mmakes with smaller pieces added on.

Call Memphis and swap Iggy for R.Gay straight up. His career seemed on an upward arc before his injury and it frees up caproom and may help sway Gasol to resign knowing he will get the ball more, like in the playoffs last season.

Does a big 3 of Gay, Jrue and Turner improve our future as complimentary pieces agewise and skillset wise and can Gay be the #1 scorer, ala Carmelo that we have been lacking?

and let the bashing commence!

deepsixersuede reply to Stan on Dec 3 at 16:08

I meant frees up caproom for Memphis of course. Can Gay be considered a young star in another year, maybe, it would be a gamble I wouldn't mind them taking because it keeps Turner at s.g. and adds a 6'9" small forward..

I'm not a big fan of Rudy. I think Iguodala is the better player. He's only 2 years older than Rudy and Rudy makes more money than him.

I would trade Iggy for Gay in a heartbeat, but didn't Memphis already say no?

deepsixersuede reply to stoned81 on Dec 4 at 10:14

With Gasol asking for the moon and their playoff success minus Gay they may think hard about it.

I would jump for joy if you are correct.

I don't watch college or high school basketball. So how does the next few drafts look like in terms of talent? Any potential superstars?

This next draft can be huge if they don't change the age rule.

And yet the sixers probably will be in the mid to low teens because they'll lose in the first round of the playoffs.

All indications are that the age limit wasn't going to change, however, the NBA and players after agreeing on the big points took a whole damn week to sit down to hammer out the language of the whole deal (which bothers me for some reason, they have 'two weeks' to get the agreement signed and all and yet it took a week for them to sit down again)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 3 at 13:33

It would all depend on the talent availble. If there is going to be a draft within the next few years that will resemble the 03' draft then I would go ahead and trade Iguodala and amnesty Brand.

If the best talent available is Perry Jones, then I would build with what I have.

I know you vehemently disagree with this notion, but I want to keep what I have for this year just for the slight chance that Dwight might sign here :)

Hey, we all have our opinions, you think there's a slight chance dwight would sign here, I don't think there's a snowballs chance, and I also think trading for him costs you your point guard :)

I don't know about the depth of this draft, dereks the only guy I really trust to comment on that, I was really hoping the age would go up a year, but this years draft might have extra depth beause of the guys who didn't come out last year.

Aren't Sullinger and Barnes 'higher' rated prospects than the baylor kid?

I think it's too early to tell how good exactly the draft will be but at the moment it looks as if the 2012 draft will be very deep. There is a chance that you will be able to draft a very good prospect even in the teens.

deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Dec 3 at 16:03

An interesting kid to watch is the kid Meyers Leonard, a 7 footer from Illinois. Very raw but athletic and playing now against Gonzaga and Sacre, another 7 footer. Not many battles of solid 7 footers any more.

but he's white....

Da Jruth reply to Xsago on Dec 3 at 22:58

Totally agree on this upcoming draft being full of quality, even in the mid to late first round. Suede mentioned a couple of 7 footers - Fab Melo really piqued my interest in that Syracuse game Friday night. In limited viewing, he appeared to be just the type of big to work well with Jrue on pick and rolls. Thought he looked rather agile for a 7 footer with that long of legs.

elf reply to GoSixers on Dec 3 at 19:41

I think the 76ers should trade Iggy, because is our best asset, for the minesota pick with the clippers because their lame(Sota) and the pick is unprotected and let the young guns learn thru theirs mistakes. Maybe trade or amnesty Brand, this would get us in the lottery too, If the 76ers got 2 lottery picks in this next draft they can cover a lot holes in the talent department, this is a draft with some athletic bigs with the magic word: potential !
Jrue, Turner, Thad have tasted the playoffs they know when the real season beggins, I bet with the competitive nature they showed in games, they wanna get in again.
If theres a definition of one step back, to get to 2 or 3 foward is it

CBA won't be signed yet obviously but players & teams can start talking (free agency) on Monday

That Anthony Davis kid looks pretty good. Lets tank the season!

deepsixersuede reply to Stan on Dec 4 at 12:12

I am setting my sights on picking in the 15 pick range, that is why guys like Plumlee and Henson are catching my eye, along with the Vanderbuilt kid ,Ezele, who is out hurt now. Guys like Davis will be long gone by our pick.

Who knows, maybe Elton's contract becomes a draft day asset next year we'll see.

If Elton pulls in another 15/9 performance (or close to it) this year, I'm sure his expiring contract will be an asset after this season. However, if we trade him, it would presumably be for a longer contract, which would make no sense to me. We've been waiting for 4 years to get back under the cap, and we throw it away with one year to go?

deepsixersuede reply to stoned81 on Dec 4 at 16:09

I was thinking moving Elton and our pick to a team for a longer contract and a top 5 pick, with the new c.b.a. taking effect maybe a team would be in desperate mode to get under the cap.

Ah. If a team is willing to give up a top 5 pick just to unload a long contract, I would imagine it's really a terrible contract that we wouldn't want, no?

And why wouldn't they just waive him?:)

Expiring contracts haven't had serious value for a while except really in those years when you have one (or multiple) superstars about to hit the unrestricted free agent market. The new CBA may add value to them, but I don't forsee a lot of extra value, and more so to teams over the tax who have already used their waiver.

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