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Three Weeks Until...

I'm mostly looking forward to Turner shooting his way to stardom :)).

Or if we are realistic the offensive flow in the half court with J/T/I or J/M/T.

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deepsixersuede on Dec 5 at 8:08
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Turner and Vucevic on both ends of the court. I feel we may finally have a solid defensive center. Not flashy but Liambeerlike.

Voose has to make his way past Hawes on the depth chart. I know that seems laughable at first, but considering that they have similar skill sets, I think it'll take awhile. If he's able to draw fouls more frequently than Hawes, which shouldn't be hard to do, that'll certainly help his cause.

He might play defense like Laimbeer does now, or maybe like the centers Laimbeer coached for the Shock.

You're just going to have fun with him all season aren't you?

I wonder what happens if Vucevic actually shows promise, plays well and is nothing like Hawes (unlikely but not impossible). How long will it take for you to change your stance on him?

For the record i view him as a backup center and i am not overly excited but i do believe he will be better than Hawes long term.

Are we talking a week month or season of good play?

I expect the guy to stink, being 'slightly better' than hawes still stinks

It's just a hypothetical what if question. How long will it take for the non-believers to accept his production? In general i would say that it takes 2-3 seasons to fully evaluate a players abilities and potential, but i would be encouraged after 10-15 games of solid consistent play.

Hell, considering the low expectations i will probably be encouraged if he even shows some toughness inside. That will be a start.

Well that depends

He's been playing organized ball in some other country whereas Hawes has been half assing work outs in Washington. Shouldn't he be more basketball ready already. I mean if they have overlapping skills, shouldnt he beat hawes out?

Yes, that's unrealistic, but can't really say until you see how the season goes, but I want to see a significant amount of playing time before changing my mind on him.

I have low hopes for him but I'm not ready to write him off after a dozen or so bad games - I just don't expect him to be the 'savior' some seem to think he is.

In his favor is that expectations are SUPER low

Well Hawes has a whole season of training with the Sixers and mroe or less should at least know the system. Vucevic probably hasn't even met at least half of his teammates, let alone train with them.

Going into the season i doubt Vucevic will get any playing time early on, but if he shows something in practice he will gradually start to get some. I don't think Collins will let an unknown commodity play that easily. He likes rotations with lets call it "expectable outcome". At least that's what i got out of him last season, and his past work suggests that as well. But that can be said for most coaches, can't it.

Collins likes his W-L record not getting too screwed

I'd rather throw Sash in the deep end and see if he can swim

This season is going to be a nightmare for the rookies in general. They will be completely unprepared for what is ahead of them.

I realize that they are different sports, but the NFL had a compacted off season due to their lock out and many rookies are performing very well.

If Hawes had been playing for Montenegro the past 6 weeks, what type of performance would he be putting up?

Hard to guess, given Hawes actually has softy post skills that are vestigial on the NBA stage.

Lets put it this way. A guy grabbing 20 boards in a game in Europe is extremely extremely rare (slower pace, shorter games etc.). Very few players have done it. Vucevic has done it in only 32 minutes and he had another game with 18 in 23 minutes. On top of that he had a 30 point game (high individual scoring games are rare in Europe as well) where he shot 11/11. I think it's safe to assume that Hawes would have zero shot at accomplishing this.

Of course this doesn't mean Vucevic will succeed in the NBA against NBA type of athletes but at least gives some hope that he will be a serviceable big man.

Turner, easily. Whether he is what we thought he would be is huge for this franchise right now.

Turner all the way!

It's interesting how there are a ton of "leaks" and "sources said" about a huge number of free agents and i am yet to read a single one about Thad Young. I wonder if teams (similar to the situations in Memphis and the Clippers) think the Sixers are very likely going to match any offer and are reluctant to express significant interest about Young. I honestly don't know what's the better situation, convince him to sign prior to him getting a huge offer from another team or waiting for him to sign with another team and than match it if it is reasonable. It looks like teams are after unrestricted free agents now and restricted free agents have a chance to resign with their current teams at a reasonable price. What happens if a team with huge cap space in desperate need to sign anyone strikes out with the unrestricted free agents? I wouldn't be surprised if Thad gets a huge offer that wouldn't have been on the table otherwise. Letting him get an offer is a huge gamble.

The three teams that scare me the most are Sacramento, Indiana and Denver. They have huge cap space and will have to sign someone to get to the minimum salary. And all of them wouldn't mind a young guy since they are in rebuild mode.

For the first time in years the sixers will be entering a season with the same coach as the previous season. I've heard people mention the sixers will get off to another slow start. I don't believe this. I'm excited to see them kick off the season (despite the fact that I'll be out of the country when they do)and continue to mesh together.

I like that point. Looking forward to this newfound stability as well. Something we haven't had in a long time.

Yep, this is the first time in a long time the roster hasn't had a huge change (so far, at least) and the head coach is still in place.

Woo hoo continuity

Nothing fun about it, but it's good for the players and means they should get off to a good start.

I'm looking forward to Jrue becoming the top five point guard that Collins was talking about, and also Iguodala not getting traded.


Hawes at least improved his rebound rate last season, but he's essentially turning into the new Rasho Nesterovic -- an otherwise moderately effective midrange shooting big man whose offensive impact suffers from a comically low free throw rate. As a result, Hawes' true shooting percentage was just 48.1 last season and annually ranks among the worst at the center position.

Woo hoo

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raro reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 11:07
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ugh... dump his sorry ass already.

Hollinger's comment on Sasha had a conclusion that I'm paraphrasing below (I try to limit inside direct quotes to a minimum)

"Not sure where he gets minutes since he and Hawes have such similar games"

I was surprised how well Hollinger has assessed the Sixers in his article. It's rare to see a national media guy who actually isn't talking nonsense when talking about the Sixers.

And for those who haven't read it Hawes has the three worst free throw rates in the history of the NBA for guys of his size and age.

Hollinger is an analytical guy, he doesn't let the perception interfere with the facts. I don't like PER but at least he's a more unbiased commenter in general.

The ESPN 5 on 5 was annoying - did they fire philadunkia?

The 5 on 5 was ridiculous. The guy from the Nets blog clearly have never seen the Sixers play last season.

Which was weird, do they have competitor blogs do every 5 on 5 - i haven't really read them - i would have thought that the philadunkia 'writer' would have done it (they don't seem to have dumped them)

I don't know. I think they use some general NBA bloggers (which are the best of the bunch IMO), but they also use some guys from "local" blogs that are usually biased and have no clue.

Philadunkia is a said blog though...

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 13:52
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I don't think they usually have the team's blog do a "5 on 5." They usually stay with a combo of guys like Abbott, Hoop Speak or Daily Dime as well as guys from some of the other team blogs (Even though the Suns had their own guys today as I'm looking at this). Philadunkia usually isn't one of the 5-on-5 people though, at least I've never seen them and I skim through most of them.

P.S. I also agree about Hollinger's scouting reports being very good (especially for a guy who is known for crunching numbers, he really knows the game on the floor), and I reread the Nets guy's answers, holy crap what an douchebag. Every answer was really negative (Jrue isn't a building block yet, Thad might be able to be a good player, Turner will suck, They need a ton of scoring, and the last one:

"Hurt. The Sixers want to get Holiday as much run as possible to help him develop. With fewer games on the schedule, he's not going to get as many minutes, which will likely stunt his improvement. There's no one particularly old on the team that would benefit from a short season except Brand, and he'll surely get hurt anyway."

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Cin reply to Rich on Dec 5 at 14:27
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Brand was a workhorse last season and only missed one game. Give me a break.

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Rich reply to Cin on Dec 5 at 14:45
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I just think that's a weird statement, because on the one hand he says that a shorter season helps older players, when it's really just not a shorter season. It's a shorter season jammed into a long period of time, which might help younger legs. Then he uses Brand as a guy who will definitely get injured, even though by his logic the schedule would be a good thing for him.

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raro reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 11:17
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Yeah, I read that too. Voose seems to have two things going for him IMO:

1. He's an 'unknown' asset compared to Hawes who might just surprise us.
2. He has this reputation of being average on defense? I'm not sure how this theory will hold up against NBA big men...

On the other hand, he might just be a worse athlete than Hawes, which is ridiculous.

Nikola Vucevic is the next Sabonis (post injury Portland years).

"I really think I'm going to be on a new team come training camp," Chandler told ESPN.com in a telephone interview Wednesday night. "I'm really taking a hard look at all of my options, trying to see what best suits me."

That would be a devastating loss for Dallas. He's the 2nd best player on the team.

Anyway, if Dallas uses the amnesty clause on Brendan Hawywood, would you put in a bid for him? At 50-75% of his salary, he provides more value than Spencer Hawes.

If Dallas can't keep tyson chandler, don't they need brendan haywood?

A sobering thought: Ed Stefanski could easily clear enough cap space to sign Thad to an offer sheet starting at $10M in year one. He might not be done fucking the Sixers over yet. Another possible guy who could drive up Thad's price: Billy King. Awesome.

Man that is scary indeed...

I am looking forward to finding out if there are changes in perception surrounding a few players...

Some analysts said that Holiday didn't have a lot of upside despite being a consensus Top 5 recruit going into his one year at UCLA. After his quick start in the league, where does he improve next?

How many threes and pull-ups will Turner make this season? And will we stop expecting all of his jumpers to clang off the rim?

What kind of role will a healthy Iguodala have compared to the one he should? If he turns a perceived weakness of his, spot-up shooting, into a strength, which it statistically is, maybe he'll get the respect he deserves.

Will Vucevic show the promise of becoming a capable starting five/high-level role player? I'm not as concerned as some with his total lack of athleticism. It's not a requisite trait of a successful NBA center, much less a seven footer. It's also not as if he's out of shape like Hawes was last season. Damn his doughy physique, only showing tenacity on freebie rebounds that bounce right to him, and always playing with his arms down and wrists limp.

I'm not letting my Hawes experience skew my Voose enthusiasm. He may not be the athlete the Sixers need, but he could still be an effective center, who they can pair with an athletic PF.

Just because Hawes would rather be a PG does not mean that Voose will have the same style. There are non-athletic7 footers who are tough, active and engaged in the lane. Hawes is not one of them, but lets wait a bit before bashing Voose. You can always bash the pick, but don't bash the player until he warrants it by his play.

So what you're saying is all the available footage that shows the kind of player he has been until now is not relevant to his evaluation?

No. I'm saying that being being a white 7 footer with good length/size and poor athleticism does not mean he will be just like Hawes. Hawes has weak kness and no lower body strength. He also has short arms and a somewhat thin frame. While Voose has 4" more reach and a more solid frame to mix it up. But more importantly, Hawes wants to be out of the lane- are you sure that is the case based on pre-draft reports on Voose?

Both Hawes and Voose have limits to their games. But part of what makes Hawes stink goes beyond these limitations. He wants to avoid contact and stay out of the lane. But that has not been the case for Voose.

There are lots of players who are similar in terms of what they are physically capable of. Voose will never be an athletic force (and the team does need one)- but that does not mean he will be Hawes.

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Cin reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 15:43
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Most of what I've seen shows Vucevic being a solid one-on-one defender that compensates for his lack of lateral agility with good use of length and footwork. He also apparently has good enough timing to bother shots but I'm not sure how he grades as a help defender.

I've read somewhere that the biggest problem on defense in his game is showing up on screens. He tends to stay closer to the rim(probably due to lack of athleticism) and he does a decent job defending that way but against NBA athletes i doubt that will be enough.

just reminding everyone that the schedules officially come out tomorrow at 7PM EST(im sure some stuff might leak ahead of time though)

Also Brian, do you plan on having preview posts for each player?

Not sure, that's typically something I do in the dog days of summer when there's nothing else going on. Things will probably be pretty busy from now until the tip.

Evan Turner was one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA last year with eFG% 44% and TS% 48%.

How much can we expect him to raise those figures to a respectable level this year?

208 long twos for Turner, 114 at the rim. only 125 trips to the line.

It's not just about fixing that jumper, he needs to stop settling for the long twos, turn some into threes, turn some into drives and get to the line. If he just comes in with a shiny new jumper but insists on taking long twos, the improvements aren't going to be very noticeable.

Or meaningful, for that matter. Fucking midrange game...such a waste.

I used to hate Willie Green's 20 foot jumpers- and he at least hit them with regularity. Now I hate Lou and ET's 20 foot jumpers.

I do think ET took more wide openlong 2's as opposed to Iguodala and Lou, who took contested long 2's. The problem was that even wide open, he was not effective from that range.

But it is hard to have a player turn down a wide open jumper. You have to prove to the defense you can hit them before they show enough respect to where the rest of the game opens up.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 16:12
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I hated Willie Green's long twos because he would shoot them in transition. He would shoot contested jump shots even when there was plenty of time left on the clock. I don't think ET will play the same way.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 16:14
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The Celtics are mainly built on mid and long range shooting.

The only team that's really built on mid-range jumpers is the Mavs, and they have two guys who are awesome at it.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 16:29
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I feel like Allen, Peirce, and Garnett are mainly jump shooters while Rondo runs around and finds the open man.

FG% from 16-23ft:

KG: 47%/4.9
RA: 46%/3.3
PP: 42%/2.8
RR: 41%/3.3

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 16:49
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Does the last number represent fg attempts?

yes

The Mav's are crazy in that they shoot 46% as a team from 16-23 ft. The league average is 39%.

IMO, if you can shoot over 45% on long 2's then it is a good shot. For example EB is 46% and Dirk 52% on 16-23 foot jumpers.

So for 85% of NBA players the long 2 is bad. But EB, Dirk, Duncan, Horford and some other are effective from that range. But look at some of the Sixers:

16-23 ht jumpers: % and attempts per game:
EB: 46%/3
JH: 42%/3
SH: 40%/2
JM: 39%/1

AI: 37%/3.8 !
ET: 37%/2.7 !
LW: 37%/2.9 !
TY: 34%/2.4 !

So Igyy, ET, Lou and Young are killing them with long jumpers. Almost 12 bad shots a game between them.

I disagree on it being a good shot, at least I disagree in a vacuum. If you're dribble down the floor and putting up a 46% 2-point shot right away with basically zero chance of getting fouled, you're failing. Now if the shot clock is winding down, and you can get the ball to a guy who shoots 46% from 16-23, he's probably going to be open and that's a good shot in that situation. Taking a long two early in the shot clock is bad offense, as is running plays designed to get guys looks from 20 feet, those are the shots defenses want you to take, you really shouldn't even need to run plays to get them, and you should be able to get a decent look at any time in the shot clock. 0.92 points/possession is shitty offense. You need to strive for better early in the clock.

My response:

1. Having a guy who consistently hits a 16-23 footer spreads the defense and opens up the game for that player and his teammates. You hit that shot and then the next possession you pump fake and drive or you pass to a teammate who is now more open. You also force more help since your man defender will have to stay closer to you.

2. By the numbers you score .92 pts on the shot. The average ORR off of jumpers in the NBA is 28%, so your outcomes are:

46%: Made shot = 0.92 pts
15%: Offensive rebound = 0.15 (say score 1 ppp off of Oboards)
3%: Foul = 0.02 pts (rounded down)
36%: DBoard = 0 pts
--------------------------------------------------
So a 46% long 2 pt shot yields 1.09 pts per shot. That is equivalent to the most efficient scoring offense in the NBA.

So not a bad shot.

A couple of problems w/ that logic. #1, where'd you come up with 28% ORR on jumpers? #2, a 3% chance of getting fouled on a 20-footer? That's high. #3, step back one fucking foot and you only need to be shooting 31% to increase the scoring on the shot, going by your numbers.

31% = .93 points
19% ORR = .19 points
3% fouled = .03 points
47% d-board = 0 points
======================
total 1.15 ppp by your math. best offense ever.

1: http://www.82games.com/comm13.htm

2. Chance of getting fouled? I just guessed, but I'm talking about guys like Dirk and Pierce who are dangerous shooters (high volume shooters 46%+ on long jumpers.)- those guys draw fouls on long jumpers.

3. What is the 3p% for those same players?
Dirk, PP etc all shoot much worse from 3pt then on long jumpers. It just physically a tougher shot. Dirk or Bosh can shoot a 20 footer off balance with a man in there face. They can't routine hit that same type of shot from 24 feet. Very few guys can hit 3's for volume at the same % as they can a long 2.

I agree that a 3pt shot is generally better than a long 2. But that does not make a long jumper bad if taken by a guy for whom it is a valid weapon.

And really, when you take the offensive rebounds into account, you're only comparing the relative value of an offensive rebound on a jumper over a layup, if you credit the entire point value of the o-board, then you're just comparing the 20-footer to a turnover, and even I'll concede that the 20-footer is better than a turnover.

I am looking at PPP. Does an OBoard start a whole new possession (I don't know the answer to this.)

I am saying a 46% (0.92 pt/shot) shot that requires minimal set-up and low TO is a good NBA shot. There are more efficient shots (3pts or layups) but those types of shots ar a ton more difficult to generate within the offense and so you can't compare them apple to apples since trying to generate a layup or open 3 will often fail before the shot ever goes up.

I am saying a 46% (0.92 pt/shot) shot that requires minimal set-up and low TO is a good NBA shot.

That's so Eddie Jordan of you.

Hey, if he generated that type of offensive efficiency then maybe he would not be couching high school freshman.

One team in the NBA has that offense- the Mavs.

And the real flaw with EFJ was his inability to consider the Sixers talent when installing a offense. It would be like in football installing a run and shoot when you have lousy receivers and QB.

Or even ignoring the best RB in the league so Vince Young can air it out 2/3 of the time.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 18:27
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If he throws 67% of the time he'll complete 15 passes. If he throws only 50% of time he'll only complete 7 passes. You don't understand the logic behind this.

I understand Reid's logic. He likes to pass and thinks the run is archaic.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 18:51
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No, not true. If you run the ball 10 times you might get 60 yards if you are any good. But if you pass the ball 50 times you're bound to get at least one completion longer than 60 yards. One pass might have get you more yards than 10 running plays. Duh.

I see what you did there...

I can't wait until reid is let go and people are lamenting the reid years - unaware of how a run such as this is unlikely in todays nfl

Sorry - not lamenting the reid years, but lamenting the current situation and missing the reid years...brain skipped a thought...hate when tht happens.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 18:59
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I am a Reid supporter. But the decisions he has made have been mind boggling- promoting Juan Catillo as DC, throwing the ball 67% of the time with Vince Young, starting a 4th round rookie at MLB without any competition in training camp, banking on guys who came back from ACL tears to be a big part of the team...

He also hasn't been drafting well when it comes to defense.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:00
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It's a passing league, unfortunately a large portion of the fanbase thinks it's 1992 and you win with GRIND IT OUT, TOUGH MINDED FOOTBALL.

No...Andy was ahead of the curve, it's a passing league, GB, New Orleans, New England, those Colts teams, almost every successful team in the NFL will run a heavily pass oriented offense.

Some fans want clueless Jeff Fisher for gods sake, they will rue the day that they ran Andy out of town.

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Stan reply to johnrosz on Dec 5 at 19:05
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I disagree. You don't need to pass the ball as many times as Andy does. If you're going to pass the ball 67% of the time, try throwing more intermediate passes. I hate how they go for the deep ball half the time only to come up with incompletions and interceptions.

I don't have a problem with being pass heavy when you have Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Brees or P. Manning. I have a problem throwing the ball this much when you have Vince Young as your QB and one of the best RBs in the league basically acting as a decoy.

Anyway, I don't really care. I'm pretty sure the Eagles are going to suck me in one more time before ultimately breaking my heart, again.

As for Reid, I think his time has come. If for no other reason, he should probably be let go for completely fucking up the decision for defensive coordinator two years in a row.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 19:40
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Even Aaron Rodgers doesn't chuck up 60 yard passes 10 times a game. We had a well balanced offense with Vick. I don't understand why that has to change with Vince Young.

I don't get Reid. He goes out and hires one of the best d-line, o-line, and ST coaches but fucks up the d-coordinator position badly.

His drafting of defensive players is abysmal. I think it's time they at least take him out of the GM role.

I'm not a huge NFL follower but i got to see the end of the giants game yesterday - the giants secondary just sucks or aaron rogers is just inhuman - those passes were like all perfectly thrown - under 58 seconds - that's just work

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:53
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He's my favorite QB in the NFL. I like him more than Brady because he's not a stick and doesn't have this "elitist" mentality.

There really is no weakness in his game.

one of the teams im worried that will over-pay thad

@KBergCBS "Good conversation" today between Nuggets and RFA Thaddeus Young, and more conversations planned, source says.

This 85% cap minimum is going to lead to some terrible contacts.

I feel like this lock-out/CBA has hurt the Sixers in every way possible, and I really don't see any way in which it befitted the team. If anything they are in a worse position than they were before it started. I really wish the owners could have gotten some real system changes.

So does anyone have any information on when the first Sixers game is?

Official Schedule announcement is tomorrow

Any news on the teams that Spencer Hawes is talking to?

Heh.

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Rich reply to Stan on Dec 5 at 17:46
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Simmons predicted Detroif would pick him up for 3 years, 18 million today. I hope he's right.

Turner. Other areas of interest would be jrue, Thad, and vucevic.

If Thad leaves, how big a hit does our offense take? I suppose he's our most efficient scorer, if not, to borrow a Frazierism, our most prolific. I guess improvements from Jrue and Turner could make up for some (much?) of the loss.

I suppose they'd look something like they did in the series vs. Miami, except they wouldn't be giving a bunch of possessions to a guy who couldn't get a shot off against Joel Anthony.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 17:20
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At first I thought you were saying that like it was a good thing, but we scored 86 points a game in that series so I'm guessing you share my concern? I think, just to take a wild guess, that it would drop us to about 20th in the league in offense.

Nope, not a good thing, but I doubt the drop would be that precipitous. You'd hope the extra possessions would go to people who would use them decently well. 12.7 points on roughly 12 possessions/game shouldn't make or break you, as a team. Thad almost never got to the line and never took threes, if you can give the possessions to someone who does one or the other of those things, you don't need a guy who shoots 54% from the floor.

I just hope they have the nuts to let him walk if someone makes him a stupid offer.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 18:00
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Yeah, you're probably right. He did, in spite of not shooting threes or getting to the line, lead the team in TS%, outside of Meeks, but not by a huge margin. Lou didn't shoot a great percentage from the field last year so all those trips to the line only did so much, and besides Meeks we don't have any very accurate three-point shooters.

And I'm not sure if it's been posted here, but Eddie Jordan is now coaching a freshman high school team in DC.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/12/5/2613449/eddie-jordan-is-coaching-the-freshman-team-at-a-d-c-high-school#comments

Heh, saw that. He said Popovich invited him to visit spurs camp or something, but he's happy where he is.

Let the craziness begin!!! Apparently the Lakers are in discussions with the Hornets about CP3 and the Bulls are preparing a serious offer for Howard.

If these trades were to happen that would be a major blow for Miami an the Knicks.

In other news bits and pieces about the schedule have started coming up. Like the Lakers starting on a back-to-back-to-back :)

Hmmn. I guess the Lakers would have to cough up Bynum. I really don't see any worthwhile assets on the Bulls, though. What the hell kind of package could they put together for Howard? I mean, Luol Deng? Why would Orlando want him? I guess Taj Gibson, but either Deng or Boozer's contracts would have to be in the deal, and I don't see how either of those has any value.

Really glad the system changes are making it easier for the small markets to compete.

Well the reports that i read suggested Bynum + Odom for Chris Paul and any 2-3 Bulls player outside of Rose for Howard (guessing that means Noah + 2 of Deng, Gibson, Asik and Boozer)

Oh yeah and if these reports have any truth in them these are serious offers. Not something most teams will be able to even match let alone convince the stars to sign a contract extension.

P.S. D. Williams on the other hand said he will likely stay in New Jersey...

He'll be the only one, then. The rest of them are moving to brooklyn next year.

Forgot about Noah. I don't know how much NOH would value Bynum, personally, I think he's too frail, but I could see that happening. There are about 20 teams who can put together a better package for Howard than the Bulls, though. This league is going to be so unbelievably slanted by the time this two-year grace period is up.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 17:54
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Bynum is probably the best young talent they can get in return. Big markets benefit by being able to overrate their players.

Bynum is too fragile IMO. There is no guarantee he will be able to stay on the court long enough to matter. Whoever trades for him is destined for mediocrity.

Yeah the grace period will screw things up for the duration of the CBA basically.

As for Howard to Bulls, a Noah+Deng+Gibson+1st round pick for Howard+Turkoglu looks pretty good to me. I can't see anyone who can realistically top that. Bynum+Odom that the Lakers for example are allegedly offering for Paul is a much worse offer than this one. Which team can put together a better offer without giving up their best player? And we are not counting teams that will likely have top5 picks because those are not really realistic options.

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Stan reply to Xsago on Dec 5 at 17:59
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I agree. That's a decent deal for Orlando. I don't think any other team can match that and still be confident that they won't lose him in free agency.

I don't know, I mean Deng and Noah is absolutely zero cap savings for the Magic. In fact, they'd be tied up even longer and into the luxury tax w/out the benefit of having Dwight. I wouldn't put anything past Otis Smith, though.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 18:21
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But they get talent in return. I can't think of any other possible trade that could bring in more talent. Either way, I think Otis loses his job after this year.

Noah's a decent complementary piece, but what are they really gaining from this deal? They'd probably be the most expensive sub-500 team in the league for years to come.

And yet howard has expressed in the past that he isn't interested in snow

The lakers aren't getting paul without giving up bynum (who idiot boy wouldn't give up last year for howard)

This is all asinine ridiculousness...I wish Dwight Howard WOULD say publicly where he'd want to sign, even a short list, so all the other teams stopped wasting time

Deron Williams didn't say it's likely he'll stay with the nets, he said he'd consider it

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 18:39
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No he said there was a 90% chance, which is more than likely. too lazy to give you a link but google deron williams 90%.

Gee Tray - thanks for explaining me what 90% means
Should I explain to you what the difference between talk and deed is?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:06
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No, that would be inapposite, because your initial claim was that "Deron Williams didn't SAY it's likely he'll stay with the nets." So you said that Williams did not even talk about likely staying with the Nets. Yet, what he actually said was that it was a near-certainty. And I believe it's very likely myself. Surely Prokhorov will land some good talent, maybe not Paul or Howard but some good pieces. And they're in a market Williams likes, and in the long run good players will come to play there.

Hell yeah, I'm voting for Big Ben. A dog and a moose, what the fuck?

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Stan reply to Cin on Dec 5 at 18:01
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Sounds like a very messed up eastern European porn video.

Yeah, Ben wins by default. But do you think it is an insult to the real Franklin?

And anyway, ben Franklin is already one of the mascots for Franklin and Marshall University:
http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/media_items/f-m-mascots-ben-john.200.134.s.jpg

-There is not a moose within 600 miles of Philly (outside of a "lodge") so how woould that be a Sixers mascot?

-Are they really thinking of bringing back Big Dog?

-Ben Franklin is a historical figure, not a mascot, but at least he is relevant.

Why not be like the Raptors and rip off a movie. Have a Rocky-like guy and be done with it.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 18:03
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uggh. I am so sick of Rocky.

Fine, then a big #6. I don't care. But a dog or a moose? What in the world does that have to do with Philly other than the Sixers have been dogs for too long.

Why the hell do they need a mascot, in this city, with the ultimate mascot - seriously - the phanatic should be the mascot for all the teams

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CM reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 18:47
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I rarely agree with anything you write, but THIS I'm on board with.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 18:08
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These are all horrible and significantly lessen the likelihood of my becoming a serious Sixers fan again anytime soon.

Because they won't have a good mascot? You are really reaching for reasons to bail on the Sixers.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 18:13
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These are the random sorts of reasons on which I base my meaningless, skin-deep affinities to basketball teams. When I was at Duke I decided I didn't like the team because the fans were annoying, Coach K's a sanctimonious prick, and their jersies were ugly. (They also play really boring basketball.) Anyway, I did expect a little better from the Jim Henson Puppet Company.

"Anyway, I did expect a little better from the Jim Henson Puppet Company."

Yeah, was thinking the same think.

As for Duke, any chance you were already a fan of a rival college team prior to matriculating at Duke and maybe that effected you perspective?

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 5 at 18:17
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No chance in the world. I was a fan of the team until I went to my first home game, in which we played Willie Green's alma mater, and I realized I wanted Detroit to win. I never really became a fan of any other team after that point, I just rooted for Duke to lose all its games.

Hopefully Wilson Chandler can get out of his Chinese contract, he'd be a more desirable target than Thad. If he comes back I think he would be a RFA for the Nuggets which would take them out of contention for Thad hopefully. Although, that just may drive the price up for both of them.

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Tray reply to Cin on Dec 5 at 18:14
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I'd take Thad over Chandler but maybe there's something I'm missing? Chandler can hit the three?

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Tom Moore on Dec 5 at 17:57
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Here's Bill Simmons' prediction for Spencer Hawes:


11. Spencer Hawes
Prediction: Signs with Detroit (three years, $18 million)
Verdict: OVERPAID

For the love of all things holy please let this happen.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 18:04
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If the Sixers match, I will flip shit.

They will rue the day that they let Hawes walk... well, maybe not.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 18:45
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read today that DET just signed some stat guru to be director of bball ops...so don't think that's going to be happening once they take a glance at our oafish centers TS%

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Cin reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 19:03
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I always thought that Kaman would end up with his hometown Pistons in exchange for Prince. Either way, I didn't even think it even possible for someone to throw an offer sheet Spencer Hawes way. Mind-boggling. For the love of god, let him walk if they do. Or, to spite the gods, find someone who would do a sign-and-trade for him. Oh, how fortune would have shifted if that were to happen. I think Ed Stefanski would officially be declared a genius.

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Tray reply to Cin on Dec 5 at 19:14
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Let's keep in mind that this is just a BS Bill Simmons jokey prediction, not even something that's been rumored as happening. Also that they have Greg Monroe.

I noticed not one person said that they are eager to see Iguodala play. Be it to see him back 100% healthy, to see him play 66 games at "point forward", to see him play along with and lead the younger players or for any other reason.

Is Iguodala becoming an afterthought on this team or are we just taking his production as something that to be expected?

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Tray reply to KellyDad on Dec 5 at 18:22
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It's expected and people tend to be excited to see stuff that's not completely predictable, like Jrue/Turner/even Vucevic's future.

New mascots are up on the website for vote. Ben Franklin, a dog, and a moose. I might miss the bunny.

Screw it - pennsylvania, penns woods, just have a freaking tree like stanford :)

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 18:28
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What about two conjoined twins? Brings the term "brotherly love" to a whole new meaning.

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Tray reply to Stan on Dec 5 at 18:32
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That would at least be interesting. The moose is puzzling. Everyone likes moose, nice animals, but they're not especially Philadelphian. Perhaps the mascot should be a drunken cheesesteak purveyor. But that would probably be seen as ethnically offensive.

I never really considered cheesesteaks ethnic myself

I think they should just have a giant blue collar - feed the myth

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 18:47
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I personally hate cheese-wiz and I refuse to pay more than $5 for a sandwich.

I grew up right outside Philadelphia, I went to real pizza in narberth - a lot - I NEVER heard of cheeze whiz on a cheesesteak until I moved out of state and people started doing stories on pats and genos.

As far as I'm concerned, real cheesteak fans don't go to either - and cheese whiz is disguisting

Man - the thing i miss most about home is the food - i miss cheese fries a lot (again, not whiz, good white italian cheeses)

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:03
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I would never eat at Geno's, their owner was one of those "SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET THE FUCK OUT" idiots

I live in a town where if you aren't bilingual you are automatically disqualified from about half the jobs :)

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:07
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Chinatown?

Santa Barbara, California :)

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:12
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I had an interview with a judge out there but he didn't want me. It's okay because he's 90+ and well past his prime. But it would've been a better place to live for a year than Oklahoma.

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 5 at 19:18
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You would have probably quit on him before he died.

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Tray reply to Stan on Dec 5 at 19:24
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I'm actually fiercely loyal to old people/judges/authority figures, but besides, quitting on a judge you're clerking for is death to your career. Indeed, there are some judges whose offers you can't even refuse without doing serious damage to your career.

It more likely would have been the opposite

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:00
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Yeah but what would this mascot dressed up as a drunk cheesesteaks purveyor look like? They'd give him Italian traits and people would complain.

Well see Tray, that just means you're a racist, not the sixers

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:10
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Haven't the owners of the big cheesesteak places all been Italian? Pat's was founded by the Olivieris, Geno's by the recently deceased Joey Vento.

and yet you had to make him drunk

I pity the future of the bar

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 5 at 19:15
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I'm confused, did lawyers cause the death of Joey Vento?

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 5 at 19:34
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Lawyers are scum.

.12 hours to scan a piece of paper at a rate of $75/hr. Some lawyer actually charged me $9 for having his secretary scan a piece of paper. It was one piece of paper! And it took her 9 minutes to do it!

My mother was an OB/GYN and went through a divorce - i learned to hate lawyers early, and often :)

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Tray reply to Stan on Dec 5 at 19:57
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No good lawyer charges only $75 an hour. They charge $300 and up. I used to think those rates were ridiculous myself, but then I went to a top law school and found that, even at a school where everyone's in the 99th percentile of testtakers, with great college records, only a tiny fraction of people are any good at law. It's not like we're basketball players, but people with actual legal ability are relatively rare.

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 5 at 20:11
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$75 wasn't for him. It was for his freakin' secretary.

RE video: I love how the big 3 just stood there and took it.

I wanted either Ben Franklin or a dancing liberty bell as our mascot so I am very happy with Big Ben.

I look forward to seeing Jrue get better, see if Turner can figure it out like he did in College, and if Nikola can actually play basketball.

Deron Williams more relevant comment than the '90% BS'

"My plan is to stay," Williams said during an interview with WFAN radio Monday. "Hopefully we get some good talent in here to where I can stay."

Obviously the bolding emphasis is mine...sure there's a 90% chance he'll stay, but it seems to have a rather huge but sitting right there now doesn't it.

So basically his 90% statement, as I thought, means squat, 'get talent that i think will help me win a title or i'll leave' - that's what it sounds like to me.


Isn't this deal better than Noah and Deng for Howard?

Sixers send Iguodala, Jrue, Nocioni, Williams for Howard and Turkoglu.

Would leave the Sixers with a starting five of Howard, Brand, Turk, Meeks, Turner at the point, I guess. But they'd have Howard.

Yes

But if Howard doesn't agree to an extension do you still do the deal?

Does that sixer team win a round in the playoffs?

Ugh. That's putting a lot of faith in Turner as playmaker. I'd much, much rather do the deal as Turner, Iguodala, Nocioni, Lou and hold on to Jrue.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 5 at 22:12
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Are we sure he signs an extension when hes traded this year? If he ever actually hits the open market(big if)...I'd rather amnesty EB after this year and give him a hard sell from his friend Jrue, our new billionaire owner, and Doug. At least it's safer than gutting everything just to try to extend him.

If you're gutting everything, you'd have to probably have an extension deal in place. If you're rolling the dice, I think I'd give up anyone but Jrue.

I expect that wherever dwight howard ends up - he'll agree to an extension there or the deal won't happen.

You have to gut your team AND you don't get to keep howard - what's the oint?

I would only trade Jrue if it involved getting both Howard and Paul.

Paul-> Iguodala, Williams, 1st round pick
Howard, Duhon, Hedo-> Jrue, Thad, Turner, Nocioni

The offers that NOH and ORL have are better than this. But I am not willing to give up Jrue for a one year rental of Dwight. Let him go to Chicago, better there than NY or LA.

The point is getting Howard without giving up your best player so you can sell Howard on something to sign the extension. Turner and Brand ain't gonna do it. And if you swap Turner for Jrue than the deal becomes probably worse than Noah+Deng (not to mention the Bulls can throw Gibson and a 1st rounder in it).

In the Sixers case you pretty much have to keep Holiday, Brand and either Iguodala or Turner for Howard to even consider an extension.

Marv Albert makes that highlight for me. Something very nostalgic with the "Oh, what a move by Holiday!"

Turner and Vucevic. Can't wait to silence the haters on both counts.

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Stuart on Dec 6 at 0:34
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What do you guys think about getting Okafor if/when CP3 gets dealt? I know he has a pretty huge contract (and expires same year as Andre's) but he plays pretty solid defense, blocks shots, rebounds, etc. Nothing spectacular, but you could do a lot worse, as we all know.

No idea what it would take to get him, but I doubt NO will still want him when they rebuild

We bounced his name around late last week, he'd fit if you're willing to push the window out another year.

Lakers want Paul and Howard.

You know, at some point these "small market" teams really need to just say fuck off to the big markets. Bynum maybe helps one of those teams rebuild, if he remains healthy, but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for either team to trade away their superstar and take Pau back.

Yeah, it's getting really frustrating.

Still waiting on a Lebron+Miller for Howard+Nelson trade. When you think about it the trade makes perfect sense for both teams. And yeah the Heat with Wade, Bosh AND Howard would be unstoppable. Nelson fixes their PG issues as well.

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Stuart on Dec 6 at 0:51
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Ah ok didn't see that. I'd still probably take on the contract, even though tying up 30MM/year in andre/emeka would limit our flexibility somewhat.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/12/brandon_roy_will_remain_a_trai.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


One of the most prominent players mentioned in amnesty clause talk, Brandon Roy, will return to the Blazers... as a starter.

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Tray reply to Cin on Dec 6 at 2:47
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what the hell.

They can use it next year, or the following year. I guess they just want to give him another year to see if he can come back as some semblance of the over-rated player he once was.

The title should say that the Lakers and Clippers want Howard and Paul. The article mentions both teams wanting to sign the tandem, but ESPN deliberately excludes the Clippers on the titleā€¦


The Clippers have much more to offer to get either or both of them, honestly. Kaman + the Minny #1 pick is a better package for NOH and ORL than Gasol. Eric Gordon and a sign-and-trade of DeAndre Jordan is better than Bynum as well, imo. That would be funny if Sterling wound up being a taxpayer with Blake, Howard and CP3.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 6 at 2:25
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this has to be alarming for Sterling, they're not supposed to be good, then people are going to expect him to spend money to contend


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