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Bunches Of Rule Changes

"First, did anyone realize the shot clock was actually 24.9 seconds long? Well, no more. This year, the clock will start at 24 and tick down to 23 zero-point-one seconds later."

Huh? In a tenth of a second it will tick from 24 to 23?

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Court_visioN reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 4:39
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it seems under the "old" rules basically you'd have 24 full seconds to put up a shot. now it looks like they want to make the 24 second limit end once the clock hits the 24 second mark.

so under the old rules it went from 0.00 --> 24.9 seconds.
now it'll go from 0.00 --> 24.0 seconds. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Something like that according to Brian yes.

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jauer reply to Xsago on Dec 9 at 18:27
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I think Brian's missing something here. It is impossible that the shot clock used to be 24.9 seconds.

Think about it: Yes, the shot clock wouldn't move from 24 to 23 at the instant the ball was inbounded. If it did, the shot clock would only be 23.0 seconds.

At the moment the shot clock moves from 24 to 23, there is 23.0 seconds left. The "23" is showing on the shot clock for a full second. After the first tenth of a second elapses when the number "23" is on the shot clock, there is now 22.9 seconds remaining. The number "22" doesn't show up until there is exactly 22.0 seconds remaining on the shot clock, and "22" remains on the clock until between 22.0 and 21.1, etcetera.

This means that when there is 0.1 seconds remaining on the shot clock, the clock reads "1", which we all know is true. The buzzer sounds at 0.0, which is also the first time the clock reads "0".

If indeed the shot clock is changing, then they are either moving to a 24.9 second possession, or they are adding a decimal point to the shot clock.

That's not right. The final second of the shot clock was displayed in 10ths. It went from 1 to 0.9, 0.8, 0.7 and so on. So it started on 24.9 and went down from there.

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jauer reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 22:49
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Yes, but it wasn't 24.9 seconds long. It ran from 24.9 to 0.9.

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zami reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 5:56
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It used to start from 24.9 (which was shown as 24), and only after a second it got to 23.9 which was shown as 23. Now it starts from 24 (which is still shown as 24), but after a tenth of a second it will reach 23.9 which will be shown as 23.

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zami reply to zami on Dec 8 at 5:58
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*Now it starts from 24.0

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Charlie H reply to zami on Dec 8 at 20:50
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Think you said it better.

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Charlie H reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 20:46
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Yeah, because if you start at 24 and a whole second goes by before it ticks down to 23, it would take 25 seconds. But it's not 25 because the first tick is immediate & doesn't take a 10th of a second. In other words, it takes 9 tenths to get to the .0 because the clock starts at the first tick. I think.

Actually those are very meaningful changes. Wonder what kind of implications they will have. A lot less easy points from free throws for sure for guys like Durant and the premier slashers.

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Sharone Wright on Dec 8 at 9:25
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Really hurts Lou. He made a living earning those cheap trips to the free throw line. I think this might even hurt his playing time, since he is not a good defender and a low % shooter.

Didn't realize the clock was 24.9 seconds versus 24.0 - but oh boy.

As for the other rule changes, oh look, more rules to be done at the refs discretion in a league where the refs discretion tends to favor certain players...that's a good idea.

Prediction - rules will only benefit the stars, refs will continue to call the same way they used to - and Stern will make claims about how it's changed things

The two shooting foul changes actually point away from the superstar treatment, I think. Of course, how they're enforced will tell the story, but those were calls superstars always got that not many other players did.

Enforced is the key

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 21:01
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All the changes are good, but that rip-through one and the "hop" are the really important ones. Maybe we've seen the end of the "jump stop"? I'm surprised the league acknowledged that all that stuff (maybe not the jump stop) is pretty bogus and hurts the game. I thought they'd go on covering for the officials, pretending it's within the rules.

Heat getting Shane Battier

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 12:21
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Does this mean they amnesty M.Miller and target Sammy with that money.

I don't believe they can. This is their MLE, all they have left is the veteran's minimum and possibly the bi-annual.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 12:24
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That's good to hear. They better hope Pittman or Curry can help. "Where's the donuts".

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stan reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 12:39
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They used their MLE on Shane Battier?? Can he play center?

Nope, but eddy curry can (i swear i got the text alert moments before I read this post)

Interesting, from a Wojnarowski article:

Philadelphia 76ers free-agent forward Thaddeus Young(notes) is still hopeful of re-signing with the team if he receives a fair offer. Young has a strong relationship with Sixers coach Doug Collins. The Celtics and Denver Nuggets are also interested in Young.

How can the Celtics be interested in him? Sign and trade? Third team in a Paul deal? This is weird, but Woj is as good as they get in sources...

It would be perfect if the Celts signed him to an offer sheet for 4 years/$21M. Match it and you've got a bargain for four years.

Oh come on - he wouldn't accept such a low ball offer would he? Denver would trump that if they're really interested

That's why i am puzzled with this report. I don't think such a low offer is possible which is why i believe this is part of something bigger. The Celtics reportedly have multiple 3 team scenarios to get Paul. could the Sixers be one of those teams? Getting Okafor in the process maybe? I'm just speculating here of course...

I doubt the sixers are involved because of the whole anathema of making trades with teams in your division thing.

Not to mention why isn't such an offer possible.

The celtics only have six guys under contract - are they really capped out?

Boston has $65M committed to 7 players, not including the cap hold for Jeff Green. They might not even be able to offer the full MLE to someone, in fact, they can't unless they renounce their bird rights to Jeff Green and any other free agents.

Oh jesus they're screwed

So Wojo reports the Celtics have interest in Young, but when you take into account their cap situation they only have that 'over tax' exceptioin to offer.

Well done

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deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Dec 8 at 12:29
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Is a resigned Thad and Spieghts enough if that were the case? Throw in a 3rd piece?

What do the sixers get?

And how much are the celtics going to give up for a guy who they lose after the season (chris paul)

Here's the thing about a sign and trade, it doesn't really work like "Team A has this asset who is an RFA, so they'll just throw him into the deal." It works like "Team A's RFA wants to go to this team, so we'll take a little something back in order to make it work since we really don't want him that much."

i get that, but in my mind, why facilitate a sign and trade if you're only getting garbage back.

Let him sign a crappier deal with the team he wants to sign with, I don't get making it easier for a guy to make more money but then have to take garbage back to get it

Cause honestly - the celtics have very little that they would offer in trade that is better than the open roster space letting young walk would make

Unless the Celts use their amnesty, they can't even offer the full MLE. If they do use it, the biggest offer they could give him would be 4years/$21M. The Celts can't overpay him, and the Sixers don't have to trade him anywhere. RFA's really don't have any leverage if their team wants to retain them other than finding a team with a ton of cap space willing to pay overpay them.

I was referring to the 'over tax' exception - isn't there a 'lesser' exception that tax paying teams can use?

$3M/year, I believe. But you can't go over the tax w/ the MLE, so if they're $4M under, the most they can offer is $4M.

Wait, do you mean they can use the MLE to go up to the tax and then use a second exception to go over it? No, it's my understanding that it's really the same exception, the MLE, but it's capped at different levels based on where you are against the luxury tax. You can only use it once. They can still use the bi-annual, though, I believe, but you can't combine them. The Celts, as currently constructed, can't offer Thad more than 4/$21M, and they'd have to do some cap gymnastics to even be able to offer him that much.

I wasn't referring to the celtics using the MLE twice - I was referring to them ONLY Using the 'tax' exception for Thad - there's no way he would agree to that.

I don't believe he'd agree to the 'regular' MLE either

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 12:36
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Would Thad have interest in going closer to home and getting a chance to start on a rebuiding team?

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 12:33
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Okafor. Celts get Paul, sixers get Okafor and New Orleans gets Thad, Spieghts, Rondo and Boston #1.Not sure how ths money works out but it would be interesting.

Thad would have to want to go to New Orleans. He's under absolutely no obligation to agree to a sign and trade, he can just accept the qualifying offer or sign an offer sheet with another team.

I think Thaddeus Young will want to go to the team that offers him the best deal

Isn't Thad from New Orleans? That's helpful isn't it? But yeah they will still need to offer him at least as much as any other team.

I would think being from New Orleans would be a detriment since you have insightful knowledge about how dying a city it is

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deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Dec 8 at 12:58
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If New Orleans offers the most money, a starting spot and is his hometown that may be a winner.

If New Orleans offers the most money and a starting spot - the home town is irrelevant though isn't it?

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Charlie H reply to Xsago on Dec 9 at 17:00
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He's from Memphis.

Hmm....I guess

It's a deal I could live with though I don't think the money works AT ALL :)

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 12:27
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What 2 out of 3 would the celts prefer out of G.Davis, Green and Thad?

Not sure, but I don't see the sixers being involved in a trade that helps the celtics get chris paul (nor do i think the celtics have any assets to make it worth while to the hornets even fi they're just renting him - that's not the hornets problem)

If the celtics offered Thad a deal, I bet the new ownership would bow to the 'conventional' wisdom and match a 'bigger' contract than they intended cause of the 'oh my god you can't let him go to a team in your division' nuttiness

4 god damn games a season - lighten up -

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 12:53
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Could two separate deals be worked out by the 3 teams. Ex. Celts give Rondo and Green [resigned at 6 m.p.y.] for C.Paul [16.4] and the sixers trading Thad [8 m.p.y.] and Spieghts for Okafor. Maybe N.Orleans won't do one without the other.

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deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Dec 8 at 13:00
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Celts would have to grease the sixers wheels with a future pick.

Unless it's far off - who really cares about a mid 20s draft pick?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 13:26
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The Spurs

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 13:45
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I'd be interested to see what their 2013 pick looks like. That team could go south in a hurry. An unconditional could get you in the lottery.

Another thing that my Celtics friends don't seem to realize is that Rondo has so much more value to that team than any other one in the league. The fact that Ainge is destroying his already fragile confidence by dangling him as trade bait for a second offseason is hilarious. Rebuilding around Rondo is a very dicey proposition.

I like the new UNREAD feature, really good add.

Sorry, but I wouldn't help a division rival get a superstar in his prime just to get a quality borderline all-star center.

Nonsensical thinking in my mind - the sixers play the celtics 4 times a year - and oh yeah - they're only getting paul for one year and the sixers aren't good enough to beat the celtics WITHOUT paul in a playoff series.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 13:14
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Once Paul is traded he probably won't leave the celtics. They have 16 million committed to next year and they can sign Howard. I wouldn't take that risk for Okafur.

Chris Paul said he wouldn't sign long term with the celtics - if the celtics trade for him they only get him for one year probably - knicks not withstanding

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:08
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Where else would he go? Knicks don't have the cap space. It's a huge risk for Boston but they can lure Dwight to Boston.

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 13:16
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If the celts move Rondo for a one year rental the sixers actually help themselves.

if this happens who would play pg for the knicks

Ken Beger: Multiple league executives say the Knicks are now in the lead to land Tyson Chandler, jumping in front of the Warriors.

If the deal goes through, the Knicks use amnesty on Chauncey Billups and move Ronny Turiaf to make room for Chandler, sources say.

Lou Williams?

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deepsixersuede reply to sixerfan1220 on Dec 8 at 13:19
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T.Douglas can defend and shoot the 3 and they seem to love their draft pick. The Lakers may scoop up Billups if he takes less money to win.

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deepsixersuede reply to sixerfan1220 on Dec 8 at 13:21
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Could rumors like this force our new owners hand? And is that a good thing?

Force their hand to do what?

If rumors influence our ownership - we're doomed

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 13:31
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I was hoping it would have them think more about rebuilding, but wishful thinking on my part. If the Knicks sign Chandler, Pauls buddy, maybe Brian's scenerio plays out next year, amnesty Melo and sign Paul.

If the new ownership doesn't have a plan in their minds that they believe in that leads to the sixers being a contender - that's a problem - i a rumor rapidly makes them change that plan - that's another problem.

If you have confidence in your plan, the knicks getting tyson chandler should't matter

They'd owe roughly $53M to 3 players next season, and they would've already used their amnesty to dump Chauncey this year. No way they can sign Paul if this happens, unless he takes the MLE. They'd have to trade away Melo, Stoudemire or Chandler either in a sign-and-trade for Paul, or separately to a team with a ton of cap space to make it happen. I hope they do it.

While they might be better than the sixers for a time, I don't think the knicks are ever going to be a serious finals contender in the melo/amare era

which makes me a little happy

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 13:42
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Thats right, they basically add minimum guys to their big 3. The first minimum salary backcourt in N.B.A. history?

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deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Dec 8 at 13:44
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Things haven't changed a bit, have they?

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 13:45
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How would they fill out their roster with 5 million? Isn't the veterans minimum worth 1.2 million. And since they're under the cap they can't use the MLE, right ?

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Steve V reply to Stan on Dec 8 at 14:16
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You can sign as many minimum salary guys as you need, regardless of cap situation.

Plus Okafur will turn 30 next year and has 42 million and 3 years left on his contract.

From Chris Mannix on Twitter:

"Trickle down effect: League sources saying Knicks possible signing Chandler has Boston more encouraged they can lock up @CP3 long term."

How? Why would he still want to go there long-term?

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deepsixersuede reply to Rich on Dec 8 at 13:56
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Does he think that core has 3 years left in it? Are their less options for him? East coast guy? That's the best I can do.

Not even sure why that makes sense. How do the two relate?

Crap - not thinking clearly - I get it.

So now Paul would have no shot in New York - but come on - he'll have better optoins i'm sure

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:09
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If he really wanted to go to New York, would New Orleans take Carmelo or Amare? I'd offer either of them if I were the Knicks.

An amusing scenario that someone on Twitter, I believe Tom Ziller brought up, is that to get Paul the Knicks would likely have to amnesty Chauncey. The funny part is they picked up his option at the end of last year, which I totally forgot. That would just be completely wasting 10 million dollars.

I don't know what New Orleans thinking is becaues they have no real owners and the NBA is abusing the franchise for its own purposes (or they'd already have a new owner, with deep ass pockets). I don't think swapping paul for one guy who is going to be unhappy the moment he arrives is good for the hornets. If they're going to trade him somewhere - trade him to a place where you get a good offer even for a rental - and the celtics deal might be better

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:22
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Maybe the league, new orleans owners, wants a star in philly, a big market, and Melo ends up here for [fill in the blanks]. A thorn type of move?

Ehh. I don't think the NBA wants to see Amare or Melo out of NY. They exemplify New York- flashy but lacks substance.

Sure, they just went through 1000 hoops to try and get competitive balance and then they would act against their own interests?

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:36
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Billups in possible sign-n-trade for Chandler? What could the knicks add to make it worth it for Dallas? Turiaf?

Tony Douglas? Question is - why would Dallas trade for Chauncey and take the extra salary when they already have Kidd? Also if this happens, Paul's value skyrockets

They aren't going to trade chauncey to the mavs - the mavs are looking to clear max cap room reports indicate - they don't need chauncey (smart to pick up that option New York you idjits). If the knicks want to get chandler they have to amnesty one of billups or turiaf or find cap room takers for them.

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:58
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I agree with you, I just saw that on hoopshype as a possibility. Didn't Dallas have interest in Paul?

I'm sure they do - I'm sure all teams have an interest in Paul

The important questions are

A. Does Paul have an interest (in an extension) in the team
B. Is there a trade that makes the hornets happy without stripping a roster

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 16:16
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As I understand it, (A) isn't really an important question, because Paul can make more money opting out and signing a new deal with his new team next year than he can if he extends. So no extension will ever happen and whichever team trades for him just has to hope for the best, or maybe have a handshake deal in place.

Then the hornets won't get any good value for him not really - and should hold onto the deadline and hope some team loses their point guard

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Charlie H reply to Rich on Dec 8 at 21:10
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That's a great idea. They should offer Melo for Paul. Stoudamire's a big with a big offensive game, they gotta keep him over Melo.

Detroit giving Prince 4yr/27mil. Don't understand that.

Salary floor is going to make people do weird things

actually one rumor already saying Knicks would then turn around and give Amare up for CP3.

I personally think it's the wrong player to give up

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 14:15
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For both teams

Wow teams are more clueless than ever.

Chandler to the Knicks???
Prince resigns with the Pistons for nearly 7m per year???
Butler to the Clippers for 8m per year???

Lots of teams have lost their minds. As long as that's not the Sixers i'm hoping that's a good thing though...

Oh yeah it's getting even worse:

Jerebko 16m for 4 years resigns with the Pistons. This is ridiculous.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Dec 8 at 16:14
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I guess this isn't so bad: Free agent forward Mike Dunleavy will sign a two year, $7.5 million deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, league source tells Y! Sports.

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deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Dec 8 at 16:44
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He had a nice rookie year, not a bad signing. My issue is what are they doing, rebuilding or trying to win. Do they believe L.Frank can add 15 wins this year?

So on the rumored three-team deal, in which:

LAL gets Paul
HOU gets Gasol
NOH gets Martin and Scola, picks

I don't really get this from anyone's perspective, but especially from Houston's. Houston doesn't shed salary in this deal - in fact, they pick a lot of salary up in 2013 and 2014 - and in return, they become a 2-player team. What would Houston have left? They'd have a team of Gasol, Lowry, and some okay and not so okay role players. Their third best player would probably be Patrick Patterson. Why would you bring a max contract veteran second banana into a team that threadbare? I know they want a big, but to help the existing team, not to just have a big in a vacuum.

Deal sucks for houston, sucks for new orleans and the lakers get chris paul only giving up one big name.

Hey look - the lakers get another lift

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 16:22
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Houston would still have cap room to go for Nene. But that's just a lateral move, trading one pair of defensively weak scorers for another pair. Lowry/Gasol/Nene wouldn't do anything. And if you'll recall, their draft picks were big men, so maybe they should wait and see if they're any good before they trade/sign for a whole new frontcourt.

As to LA, I can't quite imagine Kobe playing with a real point guard. Howard would help them a lot more than Paul would.

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deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 16:27
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I like Patterson, Marcus Morris and C.Lee, and they still have Budinger. They should compete if Nene goes there.

Howard would help them more than paul would (and SAS agrees with you but some laker fans still wanna keep bynum)

Are you saying nene is defensively eweak?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 16:41
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I thought that was the consensus view, that Nene was a poor defender. I've never scrutinized his play on that end of the floor.

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 21:16
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Magic Johnson for an aged Gail Goodrich, James Worthy for Don Ford, Kobe for Vlade, Wilt, Kareem & Shaq all acquired for role players or less... It goes on & on.

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deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 16:23
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Read on hoopshype they will go hard after Nene now.

Making them a frontcourt-heavy, defenseless 3-player team instead of a balanced, defenseless 3-player team. I guess you could argue that Gasol's a better player than Martin and Nene's a better player than Scola, but they'd still be such a long way from contending. They should have gunned for Chandler. That could have been a pretty decent team. They already had, with Martin, Scola, Lowry and their other little pieces, one of the league's best offenses. If Chandler could really shore up their defensive issues, they could have contended.

Why would NOH want Scola, Martin and a couple of bad picks? I just don't get that at all. That's not rebuilding and it's not competing now either. It's just making your team worse, and older (Martin is 28, Scola is 31).

but kevin martin SCORES POINTS - he's better than iguodala

According to Larry Coon:

A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.

Do the players even know what they are voting on?

the player is still going to get all his moeny - just over a longer period of time - the player will have to AGREE to the renegotiation - AND if a player really wants to help their team 'win now' - it's a valid way to get it done

I'm not sure WHY you think this is bad.

Oh i understood it that the player can get up to 40% less than the contract said. I get it know my bad.

I doubt that's what it is

I believe what it means it this (sorry for the snotty - my boss is being a jack a lope):

A contract can be renegotiated to be for less money over more years - the player still gets the full amount of money - in a longer period of time - and the base salary can not decrease by MORE than 40%.

Example

30 mil per year for 4 years - 120 mil
becomes
18 mil per year for 6.6 years - 120 mil

Obviously that's not exact - but in the end the player gets as much money - over a longer period of time - thus giving his team room to negotiate.

This is new - but this is big - suddenly teams like the knicks and heat DO have a way to possibly create cap room if players are ameable to it - right?

Yeah i already got it. The writing doesn't make it clear at first reading. It's similar to the stretch exception actually. Wonder if you can use them both?

The stretch waives a guy completely - i'm sure there will be protocols for it but could you imagine a guy who extends his 3 years to 5 years then is waived so it takes 11 years to get his money back - that's awesome

It's confusing cause it's written by lawyers, and lawyers are obligated to write thing confusing to justify their overly high hourly rates...if laws were written with common sense in mind, lawyers wouldn't be as necessary

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 16:50
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It's simply impossible to write laws so clearly that people won't have disputes about what they mean. Besides which, Congress often has reason to not be clear.

Hey look - a lawyer(ish) person chimes up to justify to inscrutable wording of contracts and laws...i must say I find it very surprising that someone who wants to make their living ripping people off would defend such a practice

I"M SHOCKED

Don't take it personally Tray, I've never met a lawyer, in any type of law who was a worth while human being - i'm with shakespeare

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 17:02
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Don't believe me, read this article about "no vehicles in the park."

http://www.law.nyu.edu/ecm_dlv/groups/public/@nyu_law_website__journals__law_review/documents/web_copytext/ecm_pro_059778.pdf

That said, most of the inscrutability of contractual/statutory language that you're complaining about is actually the byproduct of efforts to make the language more precise. I'm sure the language in this deal, however difficult it may be to read for a non-lawyer, is pretty unambiguous, precisely because it contains so much obfuscating detail. Without the impenetrable detail, you'd have something that was a lot easier to read (like the summaries of the deal you see posted on blogs) but left all sorts of issues up in the air.

Hmm - something self serving from the nyu law department

The only thing NYU is good for is giving us more waiters - i mean tisch graduates

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deepsixersuede on Dec 8 at 16:30
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I wonder if the league thought rebuilding through the draft and young players would make it harder to find a buyer in New Orleans.

There's no money in New Orleans, the median income is pathetic, it's a city that could end up under water again, there's no way they can support a basketball team, not really.

The Hornets could already have an owner, a deep pocketed cut throat from the tech world who would build a team to beat the mavericks just to out do marc cuban - it would be awesome for the league

BUt that's also have moved to San Jose and the league thinks they garner some good will but refuse to sell a team that will flounder forever if it stays in new orelans

Just goes to show that matter what the cba says - the owners can't be saved from their own stupidity

The reason they changed the shot clock is so that the refs can immediately tell if the shot clock is working or not.

For the other rule changes, I completely agree on your analysis. Lou Williams will be most affected as he LIVES off of that bump and fade shot. He also does the "hand in the cookie jar" quite a bit.

The rules as a whole will hurt the star players who make a living by getting to the free throw line. This is huge for the Sixers because we don't have a star player.

Heh, yay for no stars!

Why is blake griffin crying in the picture?

Because he's a bitch? Apologies to any bitches reading.

I kind of figured why - just making sure

Do we want to do a depressed fan fantasy basketball league?

Maybe if someone else wants to organize it. I've got way too much going on for the next couple of weeks.

Crap - I can't organize it - i gotta learn ajax in the next week so i can do some more predication contests before the season starts :)

Pretty much takes up most of my free time right now sadly

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 17:54
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ROFL

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Charlie H reply to Dwight on Dec 8 at 21:04
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what's the "hand in the cookie jar" anyway?

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski The Hornets have started to inform teams that they're sending Chris Paul to the Lakers for Bynum and Odom, league sources tell Y! Sports.
7 minutes ago via web

Bwahahaha

Orlando won't get a better deal than that

And Lamaras going to have so much fun on bourbon street (but i see divorce in his future)

WojYahooNBA: Correction: The proposed deal to the Lakers is Chris Paul for Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, source says.

WTF??

Ugh. I'm sick of the NBA

He corrected it - it's not bynum - but gasol - not sure if that's better or worse

I really hope the magic arent dumb enough to do howard for bynum

I don't think the magic would do howard for bynum ALONE - it was going to take more than that - possibly gasol or odom.

To me this means that the lakers either :

A. Exhausted all possibilities with the magic, or:

B. Jim Buss put his head back up his ass and refused to include Bynum in a howard deal

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 18:17
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The Magic owe it to themselves, and the rest of the NBA not to take Bynum straight up. That would be lunacy. Anything Chicago has offered is better than that.

When healthy Bynum is one of the 3 best centers in the league and still maturing - yes I know the when healthy thing is a big issue - but he's probably the best all around center in the league after dwight howard - i don't see why that's a terrible deal

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 18:35
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35, 50, 65, and 54. That's why. Those numbers won't get better as a franchise player as he gets older too.

Well they might depending on what his injuries were and if their chronic or one time only injuries. I don't know enough about his injuries. I know part of the problem last season was the matuirty he didn't show in delaying surgery so he could go to the world cup. He would have been ready sooner if he had had the surgery sooner.

It's not like it's tracy mcgradys back or yao mings toe or brandon roy's knee - none of his injuries (i believe) were of the chronic likely to reoccur variety

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:07
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No not a Yao Ming type injury, but then again, that's a lot of injuries for a guy that you are giving up arguably the most impactful player in the league form, and he is all you would be getting from the Lakers. The rest of their roster is old and washed up, and even worse, they are on two year deals or more so they won't expire.

Also, I'd like to see what Bynum would do carrying a team. One could argue that he was in a perfect situation with the Lakers for his talents. I would look for other options (specifically from Chicago) before I pulled the trigger on a trade solely for Bynum. That's just me though.

Does Chris Paul make the lakers better than if they still had two great 7 footers

i don't think he does

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 18:46
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I don't foresee much Paul/Kobe synergy. On any other team I'd be all for adding the best point guard in the league, but I agree that with the Lakers it's not clear if this helps. They should have just trotted out the same team with a small upgrade at the point and the 3 and hoped for a better outcome.

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Charlie H reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 21:23
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Yeah, Kobe's not used to playing with a conventional PG, however great. He needs a Ron Harper type. On the other hand, that offensive wizard Mike Brown is going to revamp their offense (why?) and drop the triangle. I'm thinking Kobe's gonna hate it.

So... who is playing power forward for the Lakers now? Derrick Caracter?

and bynum is suspended the first 5 games leaving them with no center or pf/c for the first 5 games

back to the 3 team deal, Hornets working to finalize details on 3-team deal to send Chris Paul to Lakers, Gasol to Rockets and Odom, KMart, Scola to NO, sources say.

Wojo's report doesn't exactly eliminate that - it involves paul, pau, and odom - wojo just doesn't have the hornets :)

the hornets this year
PG- ????
SG- Martin
SF-Odom?
PF-Scola
C-Okafor

Seems like it could make the playoffs this year but their future is cloudy

Jarrett Jack at the moment, right? They're essentially the Houston Rockets reconstituted, ought to be a 6th seed in the East.

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Tray reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 19:16
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Amusingly, I forgot which conference the Hornets play in these days.

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Charlie H reply to sixerfan1220 on Dec 8 at 21:25
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They made a big mistake trading Collison. He's a good player.

Don't understand Houston's logic

So I guess this means

C- Jordan Hill
PF- Pau Gasol
SF- Chase Budinger
SG- Terrence Williams
PG- Jonny Flynn

Good luck with that

wouldnt kyle lowry start over flynn?

Absolutely - just an oversight.

Lowry is one of their key pieces.

Terrence Williams starting at SG? Ugly.

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Charlie H reply to Rodney Buford on Dec 8 at 21:28
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They should put Budinger at the 2 and go find a real guard as a backup - Flynn's terrible. Delonte West would be better.

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deepsixersuede reply to Stan on Dec 8 at 19:02
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I think Sam ends up there when they strike out on Nene.

S.Dalembert
P.Gasol
M.Morris
C.Lee
K.Lowry

Not a bad lineup but Tray may be right, just adding Sam to what they had may of been as good.

I don't see that lineup going anywhere in the West. They've basically traded the heart of the 4th best offense in the league for Gasol; all that team needed to go forward, besides Lowry's continued development, was some defense, which as you say, Dalembert could help provide without going to all this trouble.

isn't everyone so excited how the new cba has balanced out the playing field and led to rational contracts

just look at tyson chandlers deal

and NENE might get the max or near the max

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:04
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I want to see the line on who gets hurt first, Chandler or Stoudemire.

Ugh, all this money being floated, Thad is going to get an obnoxious offer

agree 100%

So we're learn quickly if the owners are rational or prisoner of the moment folk

the rumors are unclear - odom might not be in this deal

Nope we are not going to see the Lakers not contending for the next decade... great...

Surely the Magic can't be that dumb and send Howard to the Lakers for Bynum. Bynum is essentially slightly better than Oden.

Not sure this makes the Lakers better short term actually but they have certainly positioned themselves post - Kobe.

CP3 + Bynum is not a bad start for a "rebuilding" process.

If the lakers don't get howard and this trade includes gasol and odom - i don't see how anyone can think it makes them better

It probably keeps them in the conversation for the next half decade, and since every team in the league is willing to bend over and hand them superstars, I'm sure they'll add another before Paul is done. Probably Blake Griffin when he forces his way off the Clips.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts

they killed their front court - they went from 3 7 footers to one seemingly (but not confirmed) injury prone one

And Paul/Kobe on its own is a nice name thing but it won't extend kobe's career much - adding howard is a different story

But right now - the lakers are worse than the team that got swept out last year...I don't know if they win the first round of the playoffs

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:31
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But as he says, they have the best point guard in the league in his prime and will continue to be an attractive free agent destination. It's a great move for the future that probably hurts them a bit now.

Yet they don't have cap room or trading assets - so either big pay cuts - or a lot of MLE'?

How are the lakers any different thank the knicks at this moment?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:42
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Well at this moment, LA has a way better core than New York and could conceivably contend for a title; though I think their chances have dropped, Dallas is not going back to the Finals sans Chandler, so who's their competition, the Thunder and Memphis? I'll take my chances over them when I have the best or second best center in the conference, best point guard, best shooting guard. As for what they can do, unlike New York, they have this tradeable asset that a lot of teams would like in Bynum. And by year 4 of this experiment, Kobe's contract is through.

I suppose - but Kobe is old - and adding Paul doesn't extend his career the way adding Howard does - they have no depth - I really think you're over stating the importance of tyson freaking chandler - just like he's being over paid - the mavs aren't done - i don't think the spurs are done yet either


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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 20:02
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The Spurs really looked like they'd had it towards the end of last season, and in the playoffs. If I'm overrating Chandler's importance, I seem to be in the company of pretty much every NBA observer. Mostly though, I never thought Dallas was that great to begin with, even with him. Their postseason mainly turned on Dirk turning one of the greatest playoffs ever, Terry vastly outperforming who he is, and all their shooters knocking down shots at a freakishly high rate. Anyway, we'll see. As a fan of the NBA, I wish Paul had gone to the Clippers; Paul/Griffin would have been a much more fun tandem to watch than Paul restraining his game and ball-massaging to accommodate Kobe.

Those same NBA observers who though the knicks were a serious contender once they got Carmelo?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 20:13
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I thought the smart ones said that Melo wouldn't help. Like the Hollinger types.

Well when you group every nba observer into one category it's hard to know which herd you follow to form your opinion

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 20:54
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Not the Stephen A. Smith/Rick Bucher/Peter Vescey type, I assure you.

Add a new coach, new system, new players being integrated, Bynum suspended for the first 5 games, the first 3 of which are a back2back2back... The Lakers may have surrendered this season for the future. And they are smart to do so.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:20
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Yeah I don't see it. Which side of the ball are they getting better on? Offense? Gasol's one of the most efficient options in the league. Certainly shouldn't make them better defensively.

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 19:36
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They'll get Howard, Bynum is a better option for Orland than anyone else on the table. Regardless, Paul + Bynum is a good option for the future. It wouldn't be for this year.

I will root for Miami this year. Lesser of two evils.

I still plan on rooting for the sixers

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:39
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lol. You know what I mean.

I guess the Lakers understand that going from Phil Jackson to Mike Brown is going to make them worse for a while anyway so they decided to start rebuilding. Can't blame them. I just hope the Magic aren't dumb enough to give them Howard...

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Cin reply to Xsago on Dec 8 at 20:10
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It looks like Okafor could potentially be a factor in a second trade.

C'mon Thorn, earn your keep.

And do what exactly?

Jesus

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Cin reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 20:17
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Make trade inquiries? If there is a starting center available, whether by trade or in free agency, I'd be glad knowing that the 76ers at least tried to get involved.

And you know the didn't make inquiries how exactly?

You don't think the sixers at least picked up the phone to find out what it would take to get Dwight Howard? I'm sure every team did - doesn't mean we'll hear about it.

You can't presume they didn't make an effort, but dear god - it's emeka freaking okafor - it's not the messiah.

The sixers aren't flush with the trade assets that just moved in this deal - and if okafor is included for salary balancing and you want to try and get him out of Los Angeles - you only make that work with either a s&t of thad (which i don't think the lakers want) or iguodala and taking crap back...

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Cin reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 20:39
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I'm no fool to think that Thorn is not hard at work. Nor do I assume that every feeler sent out by the front office will make it to the rumor mill. Sometimes you find out (Stoudemire in PHX not willing to resign), most of the time you don't. I have no problem with this, but I rather prefer knowing the front offices intentions for my own satisfaction as a fan. Who doesn't?

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Cin reply to Cin on Dec 8 at 20:42
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*STAT not willing to extend

You have faith in your front office or not. I don't believe they have an obligation to let the fans in on what they are or aren't doing. You either trust that they know what they are doing or don't, but I don't believe they have a single obligation to 'clue us in' on how things are done.

That's how I look at it at least. I don't have faith in Thorn not really but I don't need to be clued in as why. I ha hoped new ownership was going to can him right away. The only person working on the 'team building' side of the sixers that I have long term faith in is tony dileo (Collins track history doesn't give me long term faith)

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Charlie H reply to Cin on Dec 8 at 21:35
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Okafor is basically a very expensive rebounder.

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Tom Moore on Dec 8 at 19:32
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Story: Rookie Vucevic expected for Friday afternoon start of training camp, but not free agents Young or Hawes

http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/top-pick-vucevic-should-be-at-camp/article_d738020b-b25f-554f-b72a-32cc48558d43.html

So I am reading on twitter that the Paul trades may help the Rockets land Nene...which would give the Nuggets more room for Thad.

I suppose it's possible - there's now that 50% instead of 25% window in trades - the rockets may have cleared more cap room

Now that the cba is official - i wanna see who gets waived

I honestly have no idea what the Rockets are thinking.

Scola+Martin+Dragic+a pick for a 31 year old Gasol? That's insane...

I'm told daryl morey is a genius

Wouldn't be surprised to see gasol flipped in 60 days

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:50
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Gasol-Brand-Iguodala-Meeks-Jrue?

For?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 19:56
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Turner, Lou, Nocioni and a 1st round draft pick

Use the amnesty clause on Brand in 2012. Sign Ray Allen and JaVale McGee

JaVale-Gasol-Iguodala-Allen-Jrue

Yes. I know this won't happen. Don't need to state the obvious and crush my wishful thinking.

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Cin reply to Stan on Dec 8 at 20:09
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Even in the made-up scenario, why would they sign Ray Allen? He'll be a draw maybe, and a big name, sort of, but probably no more effective than the previously waived Brand.

Regardless, I would love to acquire Gasol somehow, but not for Turner. This isn't to say I would not trade Turner to acquire Gasol, I would just rather trade some other asset instead. Gasol/Brand/?/Turner/Holiday looks like something that could be built around, and it would probably cost at least Iguodala to get a big of Gasol's caliber anyway.

@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski NBA owners have pushed commissioner David Stern to kill the deal sending Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell Y! Sports.

well.....

That would make it VERY interesting :)

I just realized the history on the lakers side

Tall (Vlade) for not Tall (Kobe draft rights) with the hornets

Transcendent Center from Orlando goes to LA in free agency

And a dynasty is born

If Stern DOES veto this trade, because the other owners are jealous - then to me they lose all creibility in their 'wall' of owning the team

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 21:09
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He has no reason to veto the deal, it's an eminently fair deal and NOH had no choice but to deal him. Probably not a smart deal, but if you're trying to get value back, taking the top 2 scorers off one of the league's top offenses, along with a first round pick that will probably be lottery, isn't bad at all.

You think the Knicks are going to miss the playoffs? That's not going to be a lottery pick, and I think the knicks blow.

But wait, carmelo is married

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 22:26
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I thought there was an actual Houston pick involved, my bad.

WOj says nba has killed deal

Let the collusion and un fair labor practice hearings start

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 21:17
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Okay, this really annoys me. I wasn't looking forward to watching this superteam but the league can't pick where players get to go in order to manage its image, then we are really heading to NBA as WWF. What they're essentially saying is that it's okay for Paul to be dealt so long as he goes to some non-superpower franchise.

They can if they own the team though - remember - the owners AGREE to help the hornets stay afloat - where does the money come from if they decide not to contribute

This is the worst case scenario and Stern brought it on himself, by his dogged determination to keep the hornets in new orleans as opposed to selling to motivated buyers.

As we sai earlier - laws don't make any kind of sense - but one would think Chris Paul would have some sort of grievance about this in terms of the NLRB and colusion

This is collusion - i mean it HAS to be right?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 8 at 21:38
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No, I would have to conclude this is lawful. The owner of the team has decided not to deal, that's all. Paul's under contract and can opt out at the end of the season. More likely, though, if the league fails to find a buyer this season, they'll let Paul go for one of the inferior deals to the Clippers or Warriors. I can't see how they could let Paul walk for nothing, that would be malpractice. (Not in a legal sense but you see what I mean.) The owners' outrage seems to be precipitated by the prospect of another superteam.

LA making the smart move. The window for Kone-Gasol-Bynum was closing fast. Now they can build around a 26 year old CP3 and 24 year old Bynum.

They just extended their window another 6+ years and made Bynum 2X better (sure there is injury risk, but there also is a chance for contention as opposed to playing old.)

Oh to be a Sixer fan.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 8 at 21:04
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Question: has a backcourt like this ever been assembled? An extremely ball-dominant point alongside an extremely ball-dominant 2? I can't think of an instance. It's a great deal for the future but right now, I feel like Paul's talents are going to be underutilized, as he checks his game so Kobe can continue to run the offense through himself.

According to folks who cover the lakers 24/7 - Kobe prefers the 3 over the 2 anyway

And besides, the back court will never happen

Kobe wants to play off the ball - the triangle forced him to it now he wouldn't have to with Paul...

I think in the short term Kobe and Paul can make it work. Both can be effective moving without the ball. Both can hit shots from their spots.

But honestly, this is more of a move on from Kobe type of deal.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 8 at 21:35
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Haven't you heard, the deal no longer exists.

No, I just read about it. The NBA is sort of a joke. Remind me of the Lindross debacle (where he was traded to both the Rangers and the Flyers.)

Sort of shows that the NHA and NBA are second rater operations IMO.

Should read NHL

You know

if atlanta wasn't stupid this wouldn't be happening

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Charlie H on Dec 8 at 21:42
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some crazy shit going on

The crazy thing about this NOH/LAL situation is that it got to this point. I mean, the league owns the fucking Hornets, why would they let it get that far down the road before saying "NO, we aren't just going to hand another superstar to the Lakers."

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 22:23
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Apparently the league didn't see the big deal, but tonight at the Board of Governors' meeting when the news came through, Cubes and others got really mad. At least, that was what the first story I read said, but then Wojnarowski gives us this disturbing gem:

“The owners half-pushed this, and Stern took it the rest of the way,” a league source told Yahoo! Sports. “In the end, David didn’t like that the players were dictating where they wanted to go, like Carmelo [Anthony] had, and he wasn’t going to let Chris Paul dictate where he wanted to go.”

Oh okay, maybe Paul should be sentenced to Toronto for a year as punishment for wanting to go some place. Then he'll just sign with whatever team he wanted to go to anyway.

What's crazy is that it shows me how much Stern just has lost all control :)

Lying to the fanbase, world:

NBA spokesman Tim Frank said it was "not true" that owners killed the deal. "It wasn't even discussed at the board meeting," he said. "The league office declined to make the trade for basketball reasons."

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stan reply to Tray on Dec 8 at 22:38
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Houston was the one who was getting raped in the deal

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Tray reply to stan on Dec 8 at 22:45
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Yes. I guess it's just not good enough value to take back two guys who scored a combined 42 points a game last year, extremely efficiently, along with a pick, as opposed to just letting Paul walk for nothing.

That's kind of short-sighted. I mean, that team has absolutely nothing. If they lose Paul, they have to rebuild. In this deal they'd be getting a 28-year-old, a 31-year-old, a 32-year-old and pick that's basically useless in the late teens/early twenties. I'd say about 25 teams can offer more a better return to a team that needs to rebuild than this package, and there are several who can offer better for a rental as well.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 22:55
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It's not my kind of deal at all, but if you're after value now, it's an okay deal. You don't honestly think the league did this for the Hornets' benefit, do you? To save the team from Dell Demps?

Honestly, I don't care if that was their reason or if they did it because they didn't want another superstar forcing his way to mega market. Both reasons are valid to me. Fuck Chris Paul. If he wants to go to New York or LA, he can opt out next summer and hope one of them has enough cap space to sign him for $40M less than he'd get from the team he's currently on.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 8 at 23:20
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Wow, my reaction's completely opposite. I'm lividly angry at Stern, who seems to think he can choreograph the league into a pointless state of parity he wasn't able to obtain through the cba. So now, the 10,000 small market fans of New Orleans can watch their team's lousy players have their stats padded by the best passer in the world for another year, as Paul singlehandedly lifts the team to a first round exit, while the 90% of fans who tune in to watch the 6 or so best teams in the league lose out on the opportunity to see something special, and the millions of Lakers fans in America and across the world have to watch a guy who should just quit and run the union already pretend to be an NBA point guard for another year because somehow it would be unfair to let a star come to LA. Never mind that LA would actually have been made a hair worse due to this deal! The mere perception of a "superteam" - something LA actually already has, though fans don't realize it because they're too dumb to see that Gasol is an All-NBA talent - is enough to demand that the deal be killed. Maybe Stern should just pick who's going to win at the beginning of each season to ensure maximal fairness. Paul's deal is almost over, he has no obligation to hang around in the cesspool of the league, he kindly let Demps know a year in advance that he was leaving so the Hornets could get a nice return instead of losing him for nothing, as happened with LeBron (would you prefer that outcome?), and Demps, true to form, got a veteran package for him. Not what I would do if I were New Orleans's GM, but in the very short term, it's a perfectly fair package, just like Andre Miller for Iverson was a fair, if profoundly mistaken, deal. The league's now painted itself into a corner where if it rejects this deal it has to reject all deals (otherwise it looks like it's favoring some darling small-market team over the Lakers), which is to say, it's painted itself into a corner where it's forced to junk the franchise. This is really insane.

Or you could see this as a GM making a dumb short-term deal which will have long-term ramifications and the owner of that team put the kibosh on it. Either way, I'm just glad it happened. Fuck Lakers fans.

You reaction is asinine an makes no sense to the future stability of the league, the fact that you agree with Dan Gilbert should tell you that.

Why was this trade worse than the grizz lakers gasol trade AT THE TIME (no one thought the grizz get a fair value) - why wasn't that blocked for basketball reasons

This is only about whiny small market owners using their new found power because the hornets are a bs organization - this is sterns own fault - he should have let ellison buy the team and move it.

ONLY reason this happens is because the league owns the hornets and bitchy billionaires who can't run a basketball team successfully and wanted to whine a little more.

Stern is done

Those dumb owners are also the owner of the Hornets, though. I mean, if a dumb GM makes a trade that's bad for the team, isn't it up to the owner of that team to say no?

I think it was more the small-market owners than Stern who made this decision. The teams all own the Hornets collectively, so it seems fair that if a majority of the owners don't want the deal, it gets vetoed. Stern generally gets accused of wanting to place the stars on the big teams so I highly doubt this veto was done willingly.

Having said that, I don't like the decision. But that's because I think the NBA is better with the stars in the big glamour markets (and I think Stern secretly agrees).

This is like if 11 teams in your fantasy league were all running the 12th team because the guy dropped out...and then a trade was made. Crazy.

This is not good for Sixers fans. We wanted this deal to get done because it would mean that Chris Paul won't be going to New York in the free agency of 2012. But now, that still may happen.

Can't happen if NY uses amnesty on chauncey to sign chandler.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7334000/nba-lakers-better-not-making-chris-paul-trade

Pretty good points by Hollinger (and many made here already). He didn't mention Mike Brown's new dribble around and do nothing offense that he ran in Cleveland though.

Wouldn't it be perfect if the Sixers wound up helping Orlando keep Dwight Howard. bit.ly/t9kShH


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