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Let Free Agency Begin

Here's a little more on the Paul trade:

After the trade, they'd be left with $58M on the books for next year, $52M if they buy Odom out, they'd have their pick, which would probably be somewhere in the late lottery, and the Knicks pick, which would be in the late teens, most likely.

If the trade goes away, CP3 stays in NOH and walks for nothing at the end of the season, next year the Hornets have $28M on the books and a pick probably somewhere around the pick they'd be getting from Houston in the trade.

So the trade off here is probably about $25M against the cap next season vs. maybe like the #12 pick in the draft next year. Are there a lot of owners who would allow their GM to make that trade? You've also got Scola signed for another two years after next season. Is paying Luis Scola $11M+ when he's 35 a smart move for a rebuilding team to make?

Take the NBA out of the equation, only a brain dead owner would allow this deal to go down.

The NBA sets a terrible precedent, and you have no idea what New Orlenas might have been done next

A league owning a team is a bad idea, and this just proves it. The pau gasol trade was a bad crappy ass trade, but the league didn't own the grizzlies.

Bad deals happen in every league all the time because people who made billions in other areas think they know something they really don't (yeah you jerry jones)...the league vetoing this deal no matter how bad it was on 'basketball terms' when tons of other crappy trades have been approved in the past is hypocrisy.

Being on the side of dan gilbert isn't good in my mind

Yeah, amnesty Brand and you have close to 20-30M in cap space to add Howard and the FA's of his choice.

I'm not sure they make the Finals, but they sure would be good:

Jrue/Lou
Turner/Meeks
Iguodala
Young/Brackins
Howard/Voose

Howard would score a a ton of easy baskets off of J/T/I, and Thad would run wild. Heck, maybe Lou would even learn to pass off of his drives... well maybe not.

And here's Broussard playing party pooper on twitter:

Nets have emerged as No. 1 choice for Dwight Howard, multiple sources say. D12 is expected to ask Magic to trade him to NJ.

For a second imagine the Paul trade happened and Dwight/Deron are in Brooklyn.

That means just about every marque star outside of OKC is in a major media market... and somehow Philly and SF get none (Sorry Monta.)

10 Largest Media Markets:
NY: Melo, Amare, Deron, Dwight
LA: Kobe, CP3, Griffin
Chicago: Rose
Philly: NONE
Boston: KG/PP/Allen
SF: NONE
Dallas: Dirk
DC
ATL
Houston

Miami is 17th...

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Tray reply to tk76 on Dec 9 at 1:14
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A lot of this has to do with Kevin McHale, Otis Smith, Danny Ferry, and Dell Demps not being very bright GMs.

Can't imagine the Nets being top contenders with Deron, Howard, and a bunch of sub-par players, including their non-rebounding back-up center.

Howard with a great point guard is in an instant contender with 10 minimum contracts, imo.

A problem with the heat last year was their lack of depth. Piss poor bench couldn't stop the bleeding when their starters had to rest. Fatigue finally caught up. Not a simnilar situation if Howard went to the Nets? The owner could fill in at power forward I guess.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 9:30
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I can't imagine NJ taking Brook Lopez over Bynum or a combination of Deng and Noah.

"I'm not saying players don't have the right to choose where they play, but I am saying that players don't have to right to choose where they play and enjoy the benefits reserved for teams to retain their talent."

That's a nice idea, perhaps, except the CBA doesn't say that and we might still be in a lockout today if the owners had tried to get that in the deal. So you're saying that even though the league couldn't get that in the deal and signed a contract with the players where this sort of thing is allowed, Stern ought to go around vetoing these kinds of trades and effectively impose your rule unilaterally. So when Orlando strikes a deal with the Lakers, you want a veto so that Orlando can reap the full benefits of its Bird rights and put Howard to the choice of sacrificing money to play on a team that might win, ever. Or would you be okay with this kind of deal so long as the players take the financial hit? Since, according to you, it's taking that hit, not players choosing to go to big market franchises, that you're concerned about.

And with that all said, I don't quite know what you're talking about, because it's my understanding that under this new CBA you don't get to enjoy "the benefits reserved for teams to maintain their talents." Extend and trades, I thought, got dramatically curtailed, the team that you're traded to doesn't have Bird Rights, there's no way that you're making the same amount of money as you would if you stayed put.

I believe the removal of extend and trades doesn't take effect until year three. But this wouldn't be an extend and trade. Paul wants to get to the lakers now so he can re-sign w/ them using his bird rights and get the 5-year, hometown max. Which he can get under the CBA. I believe that changes after two years as well.

And if Orlando takes pennies on the dollar to send Howard to the team of his choice, I'd love it if Stern vetoed it, but I don't think he would. The league doesn't own the magic.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 1:05
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So basically even though they bargained to retain this kind of trade for the next two years - this, in fact, was one of the sticking points in the negotiations - you'd like Stern to abrogate that where possible. Leaving the Hornets, who Stern's supposed to be looking out for, high and dry when Paul leaves in order to, in the single instance where Stern has the power to do it, enforce a rule that's... the opposite of what the rule actually is, at the moment. Who's being helped here? There's no way in the world that Paul's going to take the extra money to play for a David Stern-owned franchise.

Actually, I think the Hornets are being helped. They'd be better off from a rebuilding standpoint if they just let CP3 walk than if they made this trade. See my comment above.

And I don't think there's any way Paul will re-sign in NOH, let him walk as a free agent, that's his right. And he's got to give up $40M to do it, that's the cost.

Here's the deal. Amnesty Brand, withdraw QO from Hawes and rescind bird rights then:

Send Nocioni (expiring), Lou Williams (kind of expiring), Evan Turner, Marreese Speights (expiring) and 2 first round picks to Orlando.

Receive Dwight Howard and Gilbert Arenas from Orlando.

This move saves Orlando $49M over the next 3 seasons, gives them one young star and two first-round picks and leaves the Sixers with the following roster (assuming they re-sign Thad for a number at or below his $8.7M cap hold).

Jrue
Meeks/Arenas
Iguodala
Young/Brackins
Howard/Voose

This move would actually allow the Sixers to add mle players w/out hitting the tax until Gilbert is off the books, then they could add a decent salary and extend Jrue in his RFA year.

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 1:23
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Turner's a "young star" now?!

And it solves the mascot problem... The Hibachi.

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khouse reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 9:28
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It would be great if at trade like this were to go down but unfortunately the new ownership appears, at the moment, to be as "nut less" as the last! I hope I'm wrong & that they surprise us all especially given our years of in-action & the vows/promises they made when they bought the team.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 11:33
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yea but when I make these ridiculous trade proposals everyone bashes me for it

In Brians defense, he's in charge here :)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811

Dan Gilbert's plea to Stern against the possible Chris Paul trade:

"Commissioner,

It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.

This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.

Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.

I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn’t appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).

I just don’t see how we can allow this trade to happen.

I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.

When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

Dan G."

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Rich reply to Cin on Dec 9 at 1:19
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I wonder what font he used.

Calibri, unfortunately :)

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 1:38
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He really is a caricature of himself.

The team that I think is really being helped here is the Lakers unfortunately, unless their thinking was "Sign Paul, then Dwight will come to us next year" even though that's a ton of money in three guys, especially because Kobe makes soooo freakin much. Now the Lakers can rededicate their efforts to getting Howard. If you are only getting one of the two, Howard is the guy you want with that team, Bynum be damned.

Heh, i woke up and what do i see. The owners told the Lakers, you didn't want to share the revenue from that TV deal, no CP3 for you.

I have no objection over this, the have the right to veto the deal and they did it. As i understand it they can veto a trade anyway, they don't need to own the Hornets to do that.

Personally i didn't understand it from the Hornets perspective, but i was completely shocked from the Houston perspective.

I also fully agree with Brian. You shouldn't force a player to play somewhere, but that player can't hold his team hostage an dictate where he gets traded.

The league just stopped another guaranteed Lakers domination for the next decade (Howard for Bynum was a guarantee after that). I'm in for that :)

Oh and btw with everybody saying this is collusion. Isn't making that trade classified as collusion in the first place considering there is player forcing his team to sell him to a particular team no matter what they can bring back?

At this point my money is on the deal still going through, possibly slightly different.

Also the trade doesn't work financially as reported. The Hornets have to find a way to shed another big contract to make it happen. Maybe the deal included a sing and trade for West to the Lakers?? Or Okafor?? That would make the trade even worse...

Most people assumed Okafor was going to the lakers (which gives them minimal fonrt court depth they lost) in the LA area to make it work

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deepsixersuede on Dec 9 at 7:39
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Brian, I read the hoopsworld comment about Iggy and tried to come up with a deal that works. This is the best I could come up with using names that have been mentioned in trade rumors.

Three team deal with the sixers trading Iggy to Orlando and recieving Redick and Milsap, Utah trading Milsap and R.Bell [to Orlando] and Orlando trading Redick and J.Nelson [to Utah. It works moneywise and gets Utah a p.g. and 6 million in caproom.

Is this fair value for Iggy?

No!

Millsap is a poor mans Brand essentially and Reddick is very similar to Meeks. I don't see how this trade helps the Sixers.

I tried the same by the way but it's really hard to trade with Orlando because they really have no assets. The only quality asset they had (Gortat) they gave away last year. Anyway any trade scenario has to start with Ryan Anderson. He is young, and a very interesting player that can definitely have a role on a good team. Possibly even a starter.

I'm not sure how that helps the Sixers . Do you really think a Milsap/Voose frontcourt would stop anyone. And Reddick is best served as a bench player.

Jrue
Reddick
Turner
Milsap (or Brand)
Voose (or Kwame/Hawes)

IMO that team stinks- especially defensively.

Oh that team stinks on many levels

IMO, for the Sixers to be "relevant" they need to be among the top 4 teams in their conference. If you get Dwight/Deron in Brooklyn, do the Sixers have a shot a "relevance" in the next 4 years?

Miami, Chicago, NJ and NY should all be better than the Sixers for the next 4 years based on the stars in their prime on there roster. And that is not even looking at the other 10 teams that they would be be competing with in the conference.

It's amazing that this team can be already burred through 2016- especially given its been 9 seasons since they have finished top 4 in the East.

I guess that is the way of things in the NBA. No stars and poor management/ownership means no hope.

I agree with classifying relevance as a top 4 team in your conference. I disagree though that Miami, NY, Chicago and NJ (with Howard) are penciled in to be better than the Sixers for a number of reasons:

- It takes a team to win, not a collection of stars (i know many of you disagree with this)
- Things happen fast in the NBA. Injuries, age, new stars change the dynamics of the league constantly. Just ask the Blazers who were the hottest team in the NBA just 3 seasons ago with and up and coming superstar in Roy, a potential HoF center in Oden and a great 2-3 option in Aldridge. Not to mention the ton of draft picks, young players with potential etc.
- The CBA becomes much harsher in 2013 on teams with high payrolls. Can that quartet of teams keep those guys long term?
- Do you really think the Knicks core of Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler can contend? I don't.

Can the knicks as constructed win one round in the playoffs. Sure they can - win a round you're in the top 4. New York might not be top four

but the heat bulls and nets if they get dwight and attract a mediocre free agent are as well.

Can the sixers be top 4 sometime soon, maybe. Do they have anyone on the roster who is going to be an NBA super star? Probably not.

How many top 4 teams in the league have zero superstars? I would give you Memphis, but we'll have to see how they do this season and what goes on with marc gasol

Knicks are questionable. But if Tyson Chandler is healthy they have the defense to balance out their offense. I don't see them as a great team, but definitely a tough team to play.

I hope that the NBA vetoing this trade leads to Dwight Howard ending up with the lakers (no matter what broussard reports)...let's see them veto that trade for 'basketball reasons'...

It appears as though Dwight never had much thoughts about going to LA anyway. I feel like that CP3 trade MUST go through or the league is in some big time trouble (possibly legal trouble). Howard could wait a couple days to see how it unfolds. Instead, he is is already set to head up to Jersey. Hello, 4th place (in the Atlantic) Sixers.

Why is the league in trouble again? The league survived through a gambling fiasco and it can't survive a simple banned trade? And the legal ramifications are way overblown, the league has every right to stop any trade from happening. It's written in the rules of how the league operates.. Honestly, i have no idea why they haven't done it before... That's what created the problem.

So, was I was driving in (early as usual) to work this morning my thoughts wandered to what's going on in the NBA with players only willing to play in certain places, or for certain teams, and forcing their way out more often than not, and then I started thinking about the NFL, where Aaron Rodgers seems happy to play in the hinterlands of Green Bay, Ben Roethlisberger enjoys playing in PITtsburgh (that's all on purpose) and free agent stars happily go to places like New Orleans, Baltimore, sometimes even Buffalo.

And for some reason the whole 'no fun league' criticism came to mind and I started thinking about it. The NFL doesn't want their popularity to be about players, to be about individuals, to be about ego. The NFL wants popularity to be about team, performance as a team, to be about the group. Sure, there are stars in the NFL, and I'm sure many of them were pampered in college, possibly even before hand, and yet the league doesn't have the same issues with players and movement (as much) as the NBA has.

Then you think about the NBA, whose identity is built not by team, but by player, the name on the back of the jersey matters more (how many 'fans' of the sixers were purely just Iverson fans and then left when Iverson left). The NBA markets itself, not as team, but as ego, it's not about what teams are in the national games, but what players.

Now I haven't fully fleshed this out but I think the reason the NBA finds itself in this position is partly of their own doing, not because of the new CBA but because they have decided the best way to sell their product is the individual, and not the team, and thus they give the power to the individuals, the individuals ARE bigger than the team, some bigger than the game.

The Detroit Lions play a football game EVERY thanksgiving, even they were horrible they played a game every thanksgiving. Would the NBA continue to put the thunder on Christmas day if they ddin't have Kevin Durant? Were the bulls playing christmas day every year after jordan but before derrick rose?

I probably shouldn't be posting this yet because I haven't fully fleshed it out, but while I think part of this Chris Paul debacle is the new CBA, the league improperly maintaining ownership of the Hornets WAY too long, and David Sterns own inevitable death march beginning, I don't think the CBA has eliminated one of the primary issues that drives the NBA that isn't as apparent or influential in the NFL and that's the individual ego of the player.

Maybe this occurred to other people before, but it never occurred to me before today, and maybe that is why the NFL consciously made efforts to remove the 'ego' from the game as much as possible, so that, the league could survive and not be as bullied by individual players as they are now

(Sure sure, non guaranteed contracts help, but when a guy hits free agnecy in the NFL a lot more teams in a lot more 'not fun' parts of the country seem to have a chance at him)

Feel free to laugh comment or bash, but it's just a thought I had

I don't follow the NFL (or MLB, NHL or anything else for that matter) at all. I know very few of the players and have no idea who is better (the best). Hell i don't even know the rules of the sports (especially baseball). Yet i know about the Green Bay Packers and the New England Patriots even though i don't even know where exactly geographically these teams are located (Patriots close to Boston right?, and the Packers... close to Clevelend?)

So there you have it.

Of course many will argue that basketball is a 5man sport and superstars are more important for success than in the NFL. I completely disagree with this. It takes a team to win. Championship teams had great TEAMS.

Green Bay isn't very close to Cleveland - it's in Wisconsin, closer to Milwaukee (and Chicago) in NBA terms than Cleveland. It's also a unique NFL team - it's owned by the city - in fact they are currently selling shares at 250 bucks a piece (limit 200) to anyone who wants to 'own' a piece of an NFL team.

The Patriots are outside boston yes, an until recently (the last 10 years or so) they might have been the fourth most popular team in the city, Boston has a rich sports history outside of the celtics in both hockey and mlb (even if that rich baseball history was mostly about bad luck and a 100 year old trade :) - My gf is from boston and she loves the red sox - so i'm biased about it but she's also now an eagles sixers aand partial phillies fan :)

I don't know if my idea makes sense, it quite possibly doesn't - but it just seemed to me that the whole 'packaging' of the NBA inevitably led to what's going on right now

The NFL has stars but it is a true team sport.

I think players in the NFL realize it takes a great organization to field a top team. You will be good with a star QB, but without a quality defense, O-line and skill players you don't have a shot at a SB. So players want to play for the right coach/team more than they are focused on the city.

While in the NBA it is assumed that 2 great players make or break a team so they can chose where they want to win.

The same applies to baseball, but having no salary control shifts the emphasis to teams willing to spend to win.

Yeah, my counter argument is the 2011 Indianapolis Colts :)

Brandon Roy is retiring, huh? Lucky break for he Blazers.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 10:46
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Is he still going to get paid?

Oh yes - it's guaranteed

And the blazers have to pay it ALL since they couldn't get insurance

Also allows the blazers to waive someone else :)

I hope he comes back next year and plays 11 games. Didn't the POR doctors pull some shit w/ Darius Miles and then it came back to bite them in the ass when he played again?

I believe Darius Miles did come back and play and it screwed Portland

4 years, up to $42.7M for DeAndre Jordan from GSW. Wonder if Sterling matches that.

Well all that 'clippers are the team of the future' talk gets a real test right away, which I'm glad to see.

is it too much for DeAndre Jordan - probably - should the clippers match if they are serious about building a winning team - hells yes - it makes a statement - more so than signing caron frigging butler does.

If they let jordan walk it'll just prove (to me) that Sterling is going to be Sterling and the clippers 'dynasty' ain't ever gonna happen.

And if i'm blake griffin i demand a trade immediately :)

What team should he demand to be traded to. You can only pick from three.

Oklahoma City, Dallas, and Washington

The first two I truly actually believe the last one was for giggles

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 11:12
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and I though that the 3 years and 30 million that you proposed was a little excessive

My latest from SB Nation Philly on the Chris Paul situation. link

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 11:18
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"gumption" Haven't head that word in a long time

How about "scrapple" I haven't heard that one in a while. Probably picked 'em both up from my dad. My favorite was "head like a sieve."

scrapple is breakfast meat - and god i miss it
scrappy might be the word you're looking for?:)

I like gumption, and scrappy - i like to use neglected words

DAMN IT

Now I want scrapple

Nope. Meant scrapple. My dad loved that stuff, haven't seen it like a decade.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 11:31
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Never been a big fan of scrapple, reminds me of an episode of Roseanne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl2m2w-WJsU&feature=related

If you're from Philadelphia and don't like Scrapple I don't trust you ;)

And roseanne was awesome

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 11:35
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I don't really consider myself a true "Philadelphian" since my parents didn't grow up here

You aren't a true philadelphian because you dislike scrapple - what's next - you'll tell me tastykakes are just ok?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 11:38
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I like tatykakes, but cheesewiz is awful.

Hell yeah

CHeeze Whiz is awful

Utz makes the best potato chips

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 11:41
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Herr's is better, but UTZ is more affordable.

Oh i loved utz - picked em up at the ardmore farmers market - man miss that too - sigh i miss home

For the best scrapple sandwich, there is only one scrapple brand: "Philadelphia's Favorite" Habbersett's (of Folcroft, PA). Of course the blended pig product (stock, skins, hearts, livers, tongues, salt & spices) should be thinly sliced and then seared in a hot frying pan to a dark brown encrusted readiness for serving on the fresh bread or roll of your choosing. Note that the delicacy also serves as an astounding finger food for parties, but be sure to refer to it as 'pork a la petite quantite' so as to retain your more squeamish guests.

never really had a scrapple sandwich, just had it with breakfast on the weekends instead of bacon or sausage :)

You haven't lived! Especially great when snowed-in.

One of my top 10 favorite words. I saw it listed once as one of the great words in the U.S. vernacular.

New Orleans would be better served using the amnesty provision on Chris Paul than making the trade.

Someone would bid 100% of his salary in the blind auction, so they'd save $16.5M this season. Plus they'd have great odds for getting a top three pick in this draft.

Either that, or they can trade him, take on $45M in salary, have their own pick in the early teens and the Knicks pick in the late teens.

Oh but that makes WAY too much sense

Hah, that is sort of funny, sad and true.

David Aldridge on Twitter:

Magic contemplating filing tampering charges against two teams for illegal contact w/ Dwight Howard. Story up soon on http://NBA.com.

Is it bad that I wish one of those teams was the Sixers?

Nope - it's only bad if you really think it was one of them :)

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 11:59
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I'm guessing NJ and Boston

the penalty should be the 2 #1 picks NJ was going to include in the deal for Howard :)

Is it tampering if HOWARD contacted the nets?

1 year, $6.5M for Grant Hill to stay in PHO.

Hey - a rational deal

Here's a heartening quote from the Aldridge piece:

The Magic, the source said, will not allow a repeat of the Shaquille O'Neal departure from Orlando to Los Angeles in 1996, when O'Neal walked as a free agent and the Magic were left with nothing. If the organization ultimately decides it has no choice but to trade Howard, it will do so. But the Magic will decide where he goes. The source said a reported proposed package by the Nets of center Brook Lopez and Draft picks for Howard is not at all interesting to the Magic.
The Magic, the source said, will not let Howard dictate the terms of where he wants to go.
"This will not be another Shaq situation," the source said. The Magic will "do what's in the best interests of the organization" and will not be left with nothing.

That's great

But if the magic trade Howard to a place where he won't sign an extension and he makes it publicly known - they won't get as much as they could get.

SO basically - trade him to a team he wants to go to - get the best deal you can - trade him for 50 cents on the dollar to a team willing to rent him for one year - or play it out and get squadoosh.

Being inflexible and intractable is always a good idea.

It doesn't matter if the team of his preference is offering 50 cents on the dollar, which the Nets are. The Noah/Deng/Taj package blows the Nets out of the water, as does my made up package from the Sixers above.

The Noah Deng Taj package doesn't exist if Howard says 'i won't sign an extension in chicago'

You don't get that package UNLESS Howard says he'll re-sign there - because the bulls aren't stupid...hence 50 cents on the dollar

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 12:14
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I guess this means he'll go to Chicago or L.A. Hopefully LA, there's no way Howard can justify leaving Chicago

Of course there is

I don't want to play in chicago is legitimate justification - jesus

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Stan reply to Stan on Dec 9 at 12:20
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I meant "hopefully Chicago"

@sam_amick
Sam Amick League source tells SI.com that it's New Jersey and Houston.

Nice. Orlando should get the NYK #1 pick from Houston and NJ's #1 from them if this is true.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 16:20
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isn't it frustrating how Broussard is just a mouthpiece for the big time player agents

He has the best contacts in the world for reporting this NBA stuff, and he's late to the beat on pretty much everything.

Just a bad reporter IMO

He was pretty much a player mouthpiece during the lock-out.

It probably helps keep his sources happy but diminishes his credibility.

It is a fine tightrope that sports journalists have to walk and some are better than others- which is partly why I don't bash beat writers for not being as aggressive in their attacks of the teams they cover.

For example, Tom Moore is critical but keeps a tone that does not inflame or incite. Which probably is good for his credibility and access but does not fit with the TV/ESPN style of shock-jocks.

Just saw this on twitter from someone. There's no appeal available for the veto because the league is seeing it as the Hornets pulling out of the negotiations, not a decision by stern as commissioner. In other words, "Ha ha. Suck it."

by the way, i'd make the deal I laid out above without a guarantee from Howard that he'd re-sign here. If he walks, you're left paying Gilbert for two more years, but who cares. I mean, what are you saving that cap space for if you can't get a superstar to come here, and in this case, if you can't get a superstar to stay here. Gilbert comes off the books the same year as Iguodala, and you can build a team with the pieces you have left if you can convince Howard to stay.

Is it really an impossible sale? They've got a new owner, they've got a coach with a tremendous amount of cache, they've got an elite wing defender who can set him up better than anyone he's ever played with, along with a true PG to pair him with for the next decade. I mean, just get him here and then it's up to you to sell him on staying.

And you know what, if you get him here, you really don't need to be the best salesman in the world. All you have to convince him is that staying in Philly and playing w/ Jrue/Iguodala is a better option than giving up $40M to sign somewhere else as an unrestricted free agent.

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 12:28
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I would make the deal as well, but in Orlando's perspective having Bynum is better than having Turner

Probably, if he's on the table.

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Da Jruth reply to Stan on Dec 10 at 1:33
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Is Turner even close to a comparison with Bynum here?

Isn't that like saying John Battle is preferable over a young Hakeem? But not so much in the literal.

You're assuming that basketball is the only decision process - and if it were - why the hell wouldn't he go to chicago instead?

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 12:48
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It's a tougher sell for the Magic. These teams clearly don't think "We need too free up cap space and bottom out." The GMs are thinking, "I need the most value back for my player so my fans think I got something back and the league isn't mad at me for giving a sweetheart deal and not giving up Dwight Howard for less the he's worth." In that scenario, the Sixers didn't offer their Top 2 players, so it's really not enough. Jrue would probably have to be in the deal.

Stern really screwed the pooch with this Lakers deal. It screwed the Hornets long-term, but they got good value back for their superstar. It really was a fair trade.

See, I don't get how screwing the team long-term is a fair deal. It's just stupid.

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 13:10
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No argument, but that's on the GM.

And when a GM makes a stupid deal, who stops it from happening? The owner, right?

Which is why CBA changes make no big deal to competetivness cause owners who are stupid don't suddenly get smart

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 13:19
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Not here!

Big Baby to the Magic for Brandon Bass

Shit, now Howard's going to want to stay in ORL :)

Per Kate on Twitter, Battie coming back to the Sixers.

The sixers are determined to have the best collection of mediocrity at best centers in the NBA

Possibly the best center on the Sixers roster right now.

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Sean reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 15:07
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Sixers continue their outside-the-box thinking.

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Jack Straw on Dec 9 at 12:53
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Battie re-signed? Wow, suprised that isn't mixed in with the Howard, CP3 headlines.

Kate on twitter: The 76ers can't move Speights until @yungsmoove21 & Hawes situations are resolved. Once there's closure there, almost certain Speights gone.

Any guesses on what they can get for speights?

A second round pick, protected through pick 55

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stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 13:07
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Yup that along with a first round pick from our end should do it.

Maybe a team that needs to meet the minimum will take a shot at him since he's an expiring. No harm no foul if all they give up is a late second round pick for us to throw away on a player who isn't ranked in the top 500 on anyone's list.

Yeah but i'm not sure why hawes or young holds this up unless Thorn is too addled to handle all three ideas a the same time?

looks like kate is headed to espn

Ah, yes, OK, ESPN release beats me to the punch on this one (& most things). Leaving the #Sixers beat to write for WWL. Had a blast here!

Just when you thought ESPN's basketball coverage couldn't get worse

Maybe they're launching ESPNPhiladelphia.com

I heard she's going to be writing for some kind of espn for women thing. it might be new.

She wrote a piece for the mag last year http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=6060641

Couple months ago they launched 'espnw' for womens sports...makes sense I guess.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/

(which crashed my firefox before it could fully load)

Good for her. Best of luck. I hope whoever they replace her with won't pander to the LCD.

Wouldn't be surprised if she's not replaced either.

They have to have a Sixers beat writer. They'll just get someone right out of college and pay them $20K.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 14:48
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A total bummer. While there are those who may not have liked her, I hope they enjoy a steady diet of Cooney and Narducci.

The only beat writer I've read consistently for like the last 4 or 5 years is tom moore.

Anyone who works for a paper that is part of philly.com is anatehma

I miss Lyon. Not a beat writer, but a good writer. Sort of a dying breed.

One of the best things of living in the midwest was getting the chicago tribune every day - mike royko was incredible - i also got to see the guy from the la times (jim murray?) closer to the end of his career.

I moved to Detroit after Mitch Albom had moved on to bigger things. And I don't follow the local papers herein Chicago.

Not sure when you moved to chicago - but royko was probably dead by then - i think he died while i was in college - but i could be wrong.

Guys like that usually have the papers publish their stuff as anthologies, if you liked lyon you wanna check out royko - he was brilliant

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:05
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With all due respect to Tom - who has been great about participating in forums like Depressed Fan - I'll take Kate in a heartbeat.

I guess I missed all of those incisive, scathing articles that Tom wrote about how much of an abject failure that "Brace Face" was.

Bunny articles :)

Kate Fagans change from real writer to panderer who suddenly thought Iguodala was the devil made her worthless in my opinion. She wasn't worth reading once she started pandering

Never seen Tom Moore pander

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:13
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Can't say that I got that vibe about Iguodala from her...if you are saying that she would question how Iggy fit on the team (and if he was doing enough to fit on the team), I felt that it was a legit angle to work.

In my almost 40 years of following Philly sports, I have NEVER seen a beat writer take a team to the woodshed the way she ripped Jordan and the Sixers for the disaster that was....while Cooney, Tom Moore and everybody else soft-pedalled it, she was shockingly real - and broke it down with substance and style.

She wasn't perfect, but she was better that whoever will replace her, IMO.

She felt that Ellis for Iguodala was a good and fair trade

I stop listening to anyone who posits a theory because it's so obviously stupid

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:19
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If people used that standard - one bad take on something means you are an idiot - then who would POSSIBLY listen to you?

;-)

(man - an I glad the Sixers are back)

No one listens to me - hell half the time i'm just writing stuff cause i like to hear myself talk - remember - but i'm also not paid to be an intelligent unbiased beat writer of a basketball team who provides the fans with intelligent reasoned informed coverage of the team

her pandering to the morons went beyond the igioudala ellis thing but just an example

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:26
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So...what's Cooney's excuse?

Look - I don't think there is ANY writer that I am going to like all of the time. Perhaps she stood out for me because the bar was/is so freaking low these days. For me, her taking Jordan and the Sixers to task during that disaster was the only thing I remember enjoying during that time, and for that she will always rate well with me.

Let's reconvene in March and see how her replacement is doing - OK?

To be fair, Tom was really the only beat writer I can think of who was critical about the Eddie Jordan hiring the day he was hired.

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:58
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So not true. These sweeping statements just have to stop.

You're right

Anyone who covers sports for philly.com is anathema

It's my opinion - i don't like any of them - i think they're all hacks - i think brian gets the sixers better than anyone covering them for philly.com - i think the goodphight covers the phillies better

It's my opinion - if you don't agree with it - that's great - but you don't have to have it - it's MINE

Never through Iguodala would outlast Fagan in Philly :)

I wish her luck, she spiced things up a bit by not shying away from a strong opinion.

I'll be away from my computer for the official start of free agency, keep this post updated if anything earth shattering happens. Back in an hour or so.

I love how the national media steals our worst journalists. i.e Steven A. Smith

Next step- Gonzo

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bebopdeluxe reply to Stan on Dec 9 at 14:54
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Is this for real?

You are comparing Kate Fagan with SAS and Gonzo?

Ummmm...OK.

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Stan reply to bebopdeluxe on Dec 9 at 14:57
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sorry, that was a little harsh.

I think he was just hoping that ESPN would take him away next?

"Update: Rockets will NOT have complaint filed by Magic regarding tampering. Nets still being considered."

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Jack Straw on Dec 9 at 13:59
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Just heard that some radio station (104.3 - The Fan?) is reporting that an unknown source claims the Nuggets are going to offer Thad a deal starting at $10M for 5 years.

Interesting - cause kate fagan just used twitter on this

#Sixers & restricted free agent Thaddeus Young are closing in on a deal to bring him back to the Sixers, multiple NBA sources have confirmed

i hope they didnt give thad too much

I'm concerned because at the moment this is contrary to what the sixers reported plan was, in connection with reported 'over payings' like the warriors for deandre jordan this feels like a panic move

But i have no actual facts to support it, just my own suppositions, we'll see

I assume their deal will be based on what other teams were willing to offer- but with an extra year and a different raise structure.

So it will be "market value"... but this years market could be wacky.

Also, I think all parties have handled this in a classy manner.

We'll see when the contract is announced if the sixers handled it intelligently

Not so much intelligently as pointing out the contrast with teams that either overpay without knowing the market (Iguodala) or engender ill will by stretching out the process while waiting for another team to make an offer. Or on the flip side a player wanting to be in the limelight while they make their "decision."

Sounds like the team and player both want to get a deal done without much distraction. And honestly, there is know way they could know what the current market is without waiting until today.

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sooner reply to Jack Straw on Dec 9 at 14:25
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I'm pretty sure that other teams can only sign thad to a contract length of 4 years per the new cba?

Maybe the sixers out right offered him that deal, and if they did they're morons.

The Nuggets can't offer Thad 5 years.

Sure they can - via sign and trade

I don't think they can, actually. Need to look it up, but I think sign-and-trades are capped at 4.

Ah, interesting

i say do a sign and trade duopoly

They get thad we get nene

If we signed Tony Battie does this mean we can't amnesty anyone this year?

Why would the two be related?

Jrue Holiday
Evan Turner
Louis Williams
Jodie Meeks
Elton Brand
Andre Iguodala
Mareese Speights

(I think that's the list)

The only folks who qualify to be amnesty'd by the sixers. Why would Battie interact one way or the other?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 14:15
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I thought you had to use the amnesty clause before you could make any trades or signings.

Ah, I see, I don't know about that. Has anyone officially anounced they are using it? Maybe the NBA is keeping it quiet until the whole auction thing is done too? I don't know. Sorry, misunderstood the question, but I don't know if there's a difference this year at least

NBA teams informed of key dates today, sources say. Window to amnesty players is Dec. 9 (today) thru Dec. 16. Trade deadline is March 15 via marc stein


4 years/$24M for Bib Baby. If that's a fair deal, what's Thad worth?

Slightly less than deandre jordan would be my guess

btw, if it was a sign and trade that sent danilo to us, I'd be fine w/ it.

If ou find a pdf of the cba on line - please provide link

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Stan reply to Brian on Dec 9 at 14:29
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Orlando deserves what they get. How do you have the two best centers in the past 2 generations and f**k it up?

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Charlie H reply to Stan on Dec 9 at 17:26
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It's really hard to hold on to the best center in the league unless you're the Lakers. There's too strong of a gravitational pull. The Sixers didn't want to trade Wilt but were forced to. There was no way Orlando could have kept Shaq.

Out of curiosity - has anyone come across a news article that indicates that they think what Stern did with the Chris Paul trade was a smart/good move that doesn't reek of bad things?

Marcus Thornton Signs Five-Year, $40 Million Deal With Sacramento

so with davis and thornton signing, i'm thinking we'll be lucky if Thad is 5/50.

Sigh

Too much

Though front load it through the first three years and maybe not so bad?

I'd love to see a frontloaded contract for a Sixer.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news_arenas_120911.html

Gilbert Arenas officially waived

Can't wait to see some idiot GM put in a blind bid of like 50% on him.

Any owner who lets their GM do that should sell their team or have the fan base file a class action suit to have them declared incompetent.

I could see some team paying him a couple million to come off the bench...

Well now they're sure to keep howard

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Cin reply to Cin on Dec 9 at 15:26
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Vince Carter has also been waived and Brandon Roy will retire.

Was carter amnestyd' or just had a buy out?

Good news guys. At probasketballtalk.com they said that the Sixers and Thaddeus Young are close to reaching a deal. It also sounds like we're likely to re-sign Spencer Hawes. Looks like we're bringing back the same exact team from last year, which is a good thing. Hopefully we can use our continuity to our advantage.

Is your last name Schrute?

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Dwight reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 15:50
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No, my last name is Eisenhower.

Well, since you must be a zombie that's ok then

Wow i'm gone for a few hours and what happens:

- Thornton 40m for 5 years
- Big Baby 24m 4 years

Man if we get Young at 7-8m at this point i'm gonna feel it's a bargain.

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johnrosz on Dec 9 at 16:34
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sooo...Kate says to follow a guy named John Mitchell for Sixers news up through Wednesday when she leaves, that leads me to believe he's her replacement?

Quick google search for a John Mitchell leads me to Bleacher Report...

really hope I'm looking up the wrong guy, because holy shit. Not excited for...

10 Reasons Why the Sixers Need to Trade Iguodala

Maybe they are outsourcing Sixers coverage to a blog.

I could have suggested a better blog....

Hey - i tried to suggest a better sixers blog to ESPN - they ignored me - bastards

A bad haul?

They have six, SIX guys signed.

They got a good two guard in Martin, a very good big man in Scola, a very good forward in Odom, a young guard with lots of upside in Dragic, and a first round pick.

You can use those pieces in other deals to get more picks/cap space.

No Superstar is coming to NO, they need to build a winning culture there first and then resign their superstar. Which is what they failed to do with Paul.

Dealing Paul for all of that is a nice little reboot to the crappy franchise.

Saying that's a bad haul is retarded.

Woj says that the hornets, rockets and lakers still are talking

which is insane

i bet Coach Collins put a little fire under Thorn to get Young signed now as opposed to waiting for Young to sign someone else's offer sheet first. especially, if the Sixers know they are probably going to match anything anyway. I'm sure Collins is very eager to have Thaddeus present for the practices. he has had so much time to prep for the practices, i bet they are very intense. pretty sure Collins is kind of crazy, but in a good way for a bball coach.

Yes - it would be thrilling to me if the motivation to sign Thaddeus Young were Doug Collins

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Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 16:51
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I would be thrilled if Thaddeus young's motivation to re sign with the sixers was Doug Collins though

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Scott reply to GoSixers on Dec 9 at 16:53
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haha, fair response. i just feel like collins must be so excited right now to finally be starting the season. i appreciate his attitude towards the game. I agree, though, hopefully his deal is more thought out than what i was implying before. patience. im ready for this season to start now.

I don't think they should be in a rush to sign Young, I do agree that the market is over valued right now and if they can get him for 'under' the current market by actively negotiating, that's great, but I don't feel Thaddeus Young is a player that helps the sixers win a title long term - I'm indifferent to his status until the contract terms are announced :)

He can be a guy who helps you win a title.

Heck, Barrea helped Dalas win a title by being an offensive spark.

But I figure you mean he won't be a top 3 player on a contender- which makes it hard to swallow a giant contract. And I generally am not one to sign complementary pieces to big contracts prior to having your franchise player in place.

The thing is, that you generally can unload quality young players at any time, even if they are a bit overpaid. for example, the Sixers could have gotten out of Iguodlala's contract at any time.

If you want to hear an educated opinion that is pro lakers at the same time, 710espn.com right now - the mason ireland show is pretty good and very basketball heavy

Since LAL,NOH and HOU are re-engaged in Pauls talks i wonder if Stern accepts the deal if the Lakers give the Hornets and Rockets the same players, but the Hornets send more salary back (Ariza, Jack...). It seems to me that the whole problem with the deal was the money. The new revenue sharing system is dependent on the Lakers paying huge tax right now and this deal saves them huge amounts of money short term. This is where the problem is and the league won't allow them to achieve more flexibility in addition to getting Paul.

If that's the problem w/ the deal, then the league is full of crap. The problem with the deal should be that New Orleans got older, more expensive, and did absolutely nothing for themselves in terms of rebuilding. If they don't address that, the trade is a joke.

That's why i hate that deal but i am not sure that's the reason it got nixed. Anyway the Hornets ain't getting a good deal for Paul after this. It's gonna be largely the same deal or bust.

You don't really believe they veoted the trade purely because of the contents of the trade fo 'basketball reasons' do you?

If the hornets weren't owned by the NBA this trade would have gone done with no word from the NBA

the league would've allowed it if it was constructed like this and the NOH owner was on board, yes. A decent owner, however, would've told Demps to find a new job if he suggested this package as a return for Paul. Or at least I would've.

There's a large body of writers out there that disagree with you entirely...all across the spectrum of analysis and insight

Yep. I'm OK with that. The package they'd be getting actually hurts the rebuilding process and doesn't make them good enough to matter in any way. I hate it.

Rip Hamilton getting waived by the Pistons. Waived not amnestied.

This is getting weird. It looks like teams waive players instead of amnestying them so that they can sign with contenders and not go through that stupid auction.

Loopholes and unintended consequences always happen after new CBA's. Reminds me of politics.

5y 42m for Thad per Wojnarowski. Happy or not? I wanna see how the deal is structured first. Better than everything else i've heard all free agency long though.

Oh and btw i love how Woj is faster and has more details than Fagan and he is covering the whole NBA.

I can live with that I guess - based on what's going on around the leage 8.4 per year (Average) isn't horrible

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Ryan F reply to Xsago on Dec 9 at 17:24
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Works for me. 8 per. Better thanmost of the other garbage being thrown around

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Ryan F reply to Xsago on Dec 9 at 17:26
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Works for me. 8 per. Better thanmost of the other garbage being thrown around

I sure hope that is front-loaded.

But in dollar terms it does not seem bad. Seems like they dodged a bullet.

A 5 year contract starting at 7M with annual max 7.5% raises is...5yr/42M.

$7.25 starting first year is $42M. I'd love it if they front loaded it. 12/12/6/6/6 would put them in such good shape when the CBA stiffens.

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Cin reply to Xsago on Dec 9 at 17:37
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5y/40M was where I have placed Young's value all along.

Also Brandan Wright to the Mavericks. Obviously they're doing well to replace Chandler's "toughness."

That's probably starting at 7M w/ increases. That was the top edge of my limit. I can live with it. Would love if it was front-loaded.

A guy like Thad is going to get his minutes. However, if Vucevic becomes a big player for us, then that will make it more difficult to play Young. The reason Young got so much playing time last season was because Spencer Hawes barely played 20 minutes a game.

Except Young can take all of Nocioni's minutes at the SF position. And who says, Hawes will get 20min per game. Hawes may not even play get back. Wonder if he is still a free agent deep into training camp. Vucevic might have a chance to overtake him on the depth chart. Especially if this goes into the season.

A quick look at the salary situation going forwards suggests the Sixers will have up to 19 million next summer if they amnesty Brand and not resign Nocioni, Speigths and Hawes. They will also have Meeks as a free agent. Guessing they will have the room for a max deal for any player right? Not sure how those maxes depending on experience work.

Kevin Love anyone :)

Oops forgot the rookies. So that would mean a few million lower than that.

Elton Brand is better than Kevin Love as of right now. He's a much more efficient scorer. And Love pads his rebounding stats, as the T-Wolves were one of the worst rebounding teams in the league last season.

Are you serious? Love was more efficient last year. and his rebound rate was through the roof.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=brandel01&y1=2011&p2=loveke01&y2=2011

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Ryan F reply to Dwight on Dec 9 at 17:43
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Youre high.

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Charlie H reply to Ryan F on Dec 9 at 17:53
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Why is that such an outrageous claim? Brand outplayed Bosh in the playoffs. Just because he's overpaid doesn't mean he isn't good. Love is very good and getting better, but his offensive game is pretty limited. He's a good shooter from 17 feet, has a good bank shot, but do you really want him out there?

Limited offensive game? The guy shot 43% from three last year.

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Ryan F reply to Charlie H on Dec 9 at 17:59
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Youre claiming that Love is limited offensively when Brand does little more than shoot mid range jumpers. I'm fine with who Brand is, but saying that he is better than Love is just dumb. Defensively probably, but as complete basketball player, no.

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Ryan F reply to Charlie H on Dec 9 at 18:04
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Youre claiming that Love is limited offensively when Brand does little more than shoot mid range jumpers. I'm fine with who Brand is, but saying that he is better than Love is just dumb. Defensively probably, but as complete basketball player, no.

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Charlie H reply to Ryan F on Dec 9 at 18:32
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I don't see how he can be better as a complete player when his defense is bad. Also, Brand can post up. Not sure that's part of Love's game, but admittedly I haven't seen him play very much. I mean, I'll even concede that Love's better (especially in light of 43% 3-pt % on 211 attempts - wow), but to imply that there's a big difference seems a bit exaggerated. Brand did shoot 51% last year. (He's 2 for 15 on 3s for his career!)

Now that I think about, Brand should be getting more than 8 boards a game considering how weak our other bigs were. Okay, you win.

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Dwight reply to Dwight on Dec 9 at 18:17
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Love doesn't have a reliable shot. He gets all of his points from put backs and jump shots. He doesn't have a go-to move in the post like Brand has, that's why Elton hit so many big buckets for us last year and why we had a decent record. The T-Wolves suck and Love is a part of that reason. He doesn't defend and isn't as efficient as Brand on the offensive end.

Hmm - all those 3's - no shot huh?

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Dwight reply to Dwight on Dec 9 at 18:25
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Let me rephrase: he doesn't have a go to shot.

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Dwight reply to Dwight on Dec 9 at 18:33
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For instance, the Sixers will give the ball to Brand late in the shot clock. The defender knows what Brand is going to do, Brand knows what he's going to do. All Elton does is his trademarked fadeaway and it goes in almost every time even with good defense.

With Love, he doesn't have that type of move, that defenders know is coming but still can't stop. He gets most of his points from cheap put backs and wide open 3's. It's obviously not enough to win games as evidenced by the T-Wolves record.

Yeah, I watched 82 games last season and I'd say Brand beat the shot clock with one of those fades maybe twice. He wasn't the guy they went to in a bailout situation. And if you want to stop his unstoppable move, put a guy who's over 6'10" on him. Brand was good last season, but he's nowhere near Love, and he's also not unstoppable. He was deadly on spot-up mid-range jumpers.

Love reportedly lost 25 lbs in the off season - and dude neeeded it


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