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Wow, looks like the Clippers might get CP3 without giving up Gordon. This deal is still 10x better than the LAL/HOU deal for the Hornets. Good for them.

...any chance we could then pick up Kaman for Willie Gr...er, LouWill and/or some other random roster filler then?

Yup that's the deal i thought would get them Paul all along. I wouldn't be surprised if they added an additional draft pick (2014?).

Pau/Gordon/Butler/Griffin/Jordan

That's a pretty good team on paper, but with major injury issues. They will either turn into a serious championship contender or become the Rockets and Blazers of the last decade. Still i believe this is the best scenario for Paul, for the Hornets and eve for the league.

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Stan reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 7:58
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Jordna signed with the Warriors

It's an offer sheet, if the clips are serious, they'll match it

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stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 10:25
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True. Don't they have 3 days to match? I thought Jordan got this offer on Friday. LAC would be foolish not to match.

They do have 3 days to match. The rumors about Jordan and the warriors started on Friday (hell Thursday even) but I don't think the Warriors officially submitted their offer sheet until Sunday, so the Clips have until Wednesday.

Rumors were that the Warriors were trying to get Chris Paul and would not officially offer to Jordan until they were sure they were out of it.

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jkay reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 2:51
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Paul
Gordon
Aminu/Gomes
Griffin
Jordan.

Pretty scary IMO. Lakers will have a tough time winning that division after Odom's exit.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 4:25
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It's funny that, over the years, you haven't been nearly as big an advocate of tanking and rebuilding with us as you are for the Hornets. Personally I thought dealing Iverson for Miller was a disaster that prevented us from bottoming out and getting the top picks we otherwise would have had, and that subsequently refusing to deal Iguodala had equally disastrous effects, but you've been really thrilled every year about our string of playoff appearances. I think that's misguided, but it goes to show that fans like to see a competitive team. With Martin, Okafor, Scola, Ariza, and Odom, Hornets fans would likely have had an 8th seed to get behind, and more importantly, something Stern could sell to a new owner. (Who could always blow it up - Martin has just two more years, as does Odom, and there would always have been a trade market for any of them, as each one is actually a pretty good player.) It will be interesting to see if anyone will buy a team that will presumably have the lowest attendance in the league, and whose only selling point is the great picks it'll be getting in the 2012 draft, and for years to come. Unfortunately I don't think there's a LeBron in this draft.

Also, the fact that the Hornets won't get Gordon has to be a result of the veto. With the Lakers out of the running, the Clippers didn't really have to outbid anyone, and the Hornets had no leverage with which to demand Gordon - other than, I suppose, the threat of going back to Boston, but for whatever reason they don't like Rondo and if I know that the Clippers know it.

Iverson was a different situation, and actually I had to go back to the archives to see what I wrote about it at the time. Turns out I was in favor of a rebuild at the time, but realized that was the best package they could get for him. But comparing Iverson in 2006 to Paul now is kind of silly, we weren't talking about a superstar in the middle of his prime, the fair comparison would be like the Sixers trading Iverson in 2003.

And I find it laughable that you think the Hornets would've made the playoffs with Scola, Martin and Odom in the fold. The Rockets didn't make the playoffs with a roster built around Scola and Martin last year, and they had an actual point guard setting them up, not to mention a little bit of depth.

but realized that was the best package they could get for him

I don't agree it was the best package they could get for him in terms of rebuilding, it was the best package they could get and still float on the bottom of the playoffs, which I believe was the target...billy king was all about 'one more piece' cause he was deluded to thinking he was building a championship roster.

The mistake was compounded by not using the only asset obtained in the Iverson deal to move forward in building...

Well, they were nowhere near the playoffs when they made the trade. And I agreed w/ you about moving Miller, until they signed Brand, then it didn't make a whole lot of sense. They changed their window. There weren't a lot of rumors floating around the time he actually got traded, the Sixers were basically hamstrung. What did they wind up getting in the end? Smith played well for them, then walked. Miller stayed for the duration of his contract and the two picks turned into Jason Smith (after a trade) and who was the other pick used on? Didn't they trade it to Portland?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 10:57
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No. We got two 1st round picks in a very deep draft. Miller and Joe Smith were thrown in for salary reasons. We should have tanked that season and gotten a top 10 pick (even though Thaddeus Young was better than that Asian dude Billy King coveted). We were then supposed to trade Miller the following year for draft picks.

The funniest thing is Young is the fifth best player in that draft. Two of those guys were drafted 2nd and 3rd (Durant and Horford), one was 10th (Noah) and the fifth guy was Marc Gasol late in the second round. Realistically unless they lucked up with the second or third pick in the draft (consensus), they got lucky by being 12th. The only way they could've done better is if they got Noah and at the time they thought they were set at C long term with Dalambert.

Btw i just read that old post. I laughed so hard at how you mentioned Oden as the prize of the draft :)

Yeah, I hated Durant, pretty much through his rookie year until he completely turned it around.

I still don't think it's ridiculous to say Oden could have been just as impactful as Durant. Injuries just happen.

Oh i don't disagree at all. I'm just saying that looking it from today's perspective the fact that the Sixers didn't completely tank may not have been that bad after all.

I too liked Oden quite a bit. But i liked Durant more. He just seemed special to me even back then. It was a gut feeling.

That is a steal. Sure N.O. no longer is taking on salary, but neither is LA. Also, Aminu and Bledsoe are marginal talents that do not move the needle at all. The only item of value s the Minny pick.

IMO, the talent that the Lakers had offered could have been parlayed into much better you players than Aminue/Bledsoe. Basically 2 brderline rotation players and one promissing draft pick seems a small price to pay for a top 8 NBA player- even a rental. But maybe that is all it takes.

I disagree with this. First of all, the minny pick very likely a high lottery pick in what is supposed to be one of the strongest drafts in years. Second i disagree with the premise that Aminu and Bledsoe are borderline rotation players long term. They may not pan out, but the potential is certainly there. David Thorpe for example said Bledsoe in his rookie year resembled Holiday in many ways and that he expects a major jump in year 2 (his injury is a concern though). Aminu has a similar build athletically to Thad, but has defensive capability and has slowly improved his range to the three point line. Both players were drafted as very raw talented players with high ceiling. They need time to show what they can do long term. And Kaman, despite his negative attributes can easily be flipped to a contender for another first rounder.

So all in all, the way you can easily look at this trade is 3 first round picks in a strong draft (2 of which high lottery picks), and 2 talented raw players with high ceiling in Bledsoe and Aminu. That's a much better haul than Martin,Scola and Odom long term and it's not even close if you want to build towards a championship. And i don't think Martin, Scola and Odom are even very tradeable. As evidenced by Odom's trade to the Mavericks all he was worth is a late first round pick.

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tk76 reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 8:23
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I was referring to Pau and Odom. As for Aminu and. Bledsoe, I just don't see them rated as top 15 prospects for their age.

They weren't exactly getting Pau and Odom were they? Stern banned the three team trade as an "owner" of the Hornets. He banned it (at least in theory) taking only what "his" team was getting taken into account. But honestly even if that was the deal i don't think it changes much. Pau an Odom alone won't win you anything. With Okafor that would be the Lakers without Bryant. Do you think that's a dangerous team?

As for Aminu and Bledsoe i don't know the jury is out on them. But i believe they have a good chance ending up as top10 players of that draft class (not sure what that means though).

They were getting odom, dragic, and scola

Which is still a better right now package than the hope of the wolves pick and the clippers maybes...

Thad gets a lot of his shots from lou's shot creation so I am not sure how taking the ball out of lou's hands will help thad.

This is just wrong on so many levels...

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mchezo reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 8:45
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on what levels? be specific rather than lazily dismissing a statement without supporting your dismissal of that statement with anything substantive.

Ok here are the first things that immediately jump out to me:

- Lou only creates for himself. He doesn't create for others.
- A lot of Thad's offense comes off offensive rebounds. Lou has nothing to do with this.
- The biggest part of Thad's offensive game are i would say isolations at the elbows. Lou again has nothing to do with this.
- On the contrary if Thad is paired with someone who is "pass first", distributes the ball well and organizes the offense much better, Thad can become a major threat on rolls to the basket, backdoor cuts etc. Lou is the least likely ball handler on the team to provide that for Thad

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mchezodefa reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 15:48
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Ok here are the first things that immediately jump out to me:

- Lou only creates for himself. He doesn't create for others.

The offense runs through Lou most of the time when he is on the floor. He creates shots for Thad and gets him the ball where he needs it. That's one of the reasons why the second unit was so effective on the offensive end last year.

- A lot of Thad's offense comes off offensive rebounds. Lou has nothing to do with this.

I agree that Lou has nothing to do with thad's put backs.

- The biggest part of Thad's offensive game are i would say isolations at the elbows. Lou again has nothing to do with this.

- On the contrary if Thad is paired with someone who is "pass first", distributes the ball well and organizes the offense much better, Thad can become a major threat on rolls to the basket, backdoor cuts etc. Lou is the least likely ball handler on the team to provide that for Thad.

Lou distributes the ball to thad quite well and he also runs the offense well when he is playing point. His statistics support that assertion. His primary role is to score but he also has to keep others involved. Lou does exactly what the sixers tell him to do and but you want him to be a pass first point guard.


The sixers bench was one of the best in the NBA last year, but you want to improve it by removing one of the key players responsible for its success?

So - Lou helps Thaddues Young but no one else huH?

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deepsixersuede on Dec 12 at 7:28
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I would like more postups, depending on matchups each night, with the sixers probably having a size advantage at one of the guard spots most nights. Hawes' passing ability and Elton liking the midrange jumper add to my liking this strategy.

For whatever reason, Iggy has never been used in this way but can an old dog learn a new trick? Can Turner be effective working the other elbow, opposite Elton, on isolations like Thad does?

Evan Turner was a better prospect than Aminu and Bledsoe. Sigh... I just wish the Sixers would stop acting like a small market team.

Anyway, I guess this means Okafur is available. Would you trade for.him even thpugh he has around 45 million left on his deal?

Yes if you can get him for a package of Nocioni + Hawes + Speights (expirings).

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stan reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 9:58
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I wonder if the new ownership would be willing to take on his salary. They would ne committed to 65 million in salary for 6 players.

Well i don't see it as a major problem because i still think they will be under the tax. Not sure if they will be able to add a max free agent after amnestying Brand next summer. They might need to trade away another guy (Lou maybe?).

How does this imaginary lineup sound:

PG Holiday / Lou?
SG Turner / Meeks
SF Iguodala / Young
PF Love / Young
C Okafor / Vucevic

I like this 9 man rotation.

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stan reply to Xsago on Dec 12 at 10:15
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I can't imagine a scenario in which Love wouldn't get the max from Minnesota. He's a much better player than Marc gasoline.

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stan reply to stan on Dec 12 at 10:21
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Stupid auto correct. Lol

I can imagine a scenario in which he doesn't want to stay in Minnesota though, and Minnesota should take him temp on that as soon as possible

I think the only way Love gets out of Minny is if he accepts his QO and then becomes unrestricted the following year.

See - if he doesn't want to play there, if he makes it clear he's not signing an extension, isn't the better move for Minnesota to move him sooner rather than later, if they play out the QO they run the risk of nothing.

I don't get the NBA, so many teams just keep guys too long that they can't re-sign and then lose them for less than they could have gotten if they had moved when they knew.

IF Kahn goes to Kevin Love tomorrow and Kevin Love says - I'd rather play the rest of my career in Cleveland than sign a long term deal here - the smart thing (to me) is to trade him now and maximize his value (they've got bad contracts they can add to make the salary more) as opposed to just playing out the inevitable.

Kind of like extending an over the hill shortstop for 3 or 4 years instead of using those millions differently and finding your next short stop sooner rather than later

But Kevin Love is a really talented player. If Kahn wants to keep him he can just match any offer Love gets next year. Love can always just sign the QO to become an unrestricted FA in 2013 but I don't think he would risk his financial security to do that.

Who cares if Love wants out of Minnesota? He can bitch all he wants but if he wants the max contract, his best option is to stay in Minnesota.

Dudes related to crazy ass beach boys - i put nothing past him

When a player takes the biggest contract to play for a bad team people bitch - and yet if he wants to take less money to play for a team of his choice - people bitch

It seems the only time people don't bitch about free agent signings of good players is when they sign for a team they root for.

Beach Boys - you mean the greatest American band in the history of pop music?!

Kevin's uncle Mike turned attitude, hustle and run-of-the-mill musical talent into millions, while taking sharp & flat outlet passes from cousin Brian (a QB at Hawthorne HS) and runnin' with 'em - crazy like a fox! (The hamburger stand may be gone, but I bet he's got a garage of T-Birds or its modern equivalent today.)

Kevin's father Stan turned attitude, toughness and run-of-the-mill basketball talent into thousands, a minor feat for a west coast kid in the uproarious early 70s. Just his donning of Bullets' "mod" road uniform with roaming, wide verticle stripes was evidence of some valor.

The Love train.

Surfing music makes me ill

And I think the jackson 5 were better

Ya gotta see Dick Dale, King of the Surf Guitar, in person. He'll change your mind.

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 20:31
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The Beach Boys had left surf music behind by '65. Dick Dale - now there's some surf music you can hate. I find it hard to believe that Jimi Hendrix liked him.

Dick Dale, ranked #31 on Rolling Stone's Top 100 guitarists of all-time. Miserlou, Let's Go Trippin', Riders In The Sky, etc. ... the Quincy MA transplant ruled Southern California during late 50s and early 60s due to his transfixing live performances. The legendary guitarist and 2-time cancer survivor is still torchin' amps today at 75, a performing tidal wave. Leo Fender, Brian Wilson, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn - each attested to his greatness and have paid him honor. That you don't is, of course, your choice. Hava nagila!

But he might force a sign and trade. I'm not saying this is realistic but is definitely more realistic than Howard, Paul, D.Williams or any of the other free agents this summer. And he is a perfect fit for the Sixers next to Holiday, Turner and Iguodala.

I'm a Turner guy, but word out of practice last night was that Turner struggled running the point in the scrimmage.

Fagan is only reporter that is saying that Turner will start for sure. At this point I think it is safer to assume that the starting job is Meeks until we see what happens Friday.


Maybe I'm confused, but I don't really care if Evan Turner can run point (Lou Williams can't and people love him)

He's not a point guard

The sixers have one of the better young point guards in the league and one of the best point forwards (like him or not, but lebron is one too) at the three...not sure they need the second year kid who has tons to work on running the point, and honestly, I think other things are more important than Turner being the third point on the team

All I'm saying is that if 1) The Sixers supposed strength is continuity and 2)Turner is not showing significant improvement in all phases of the game then Collins will leave things alone and start Meeks.

Especially with a short camp and the first game in two weeks.

And like I said, I can't really give a good god damn if he can't run the point when there are much more important things for him to do.

He's in his second damn year, and it's not about being perfect, it's about being better, and if Collins has his short sighted short leash - then it'll be another partially wasted season of development for a first round loss...woo hoo

So

What youre saying is that if Evan Turner can't run the point well enough he'll be replaced by Jodie Meeks who, you know, can't run the point or defend?

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Scott reply to sober81 on Dec 12 at 10:37
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If Turner struggled running the point in scrimmage, doesn't that mean it's more likely that he'll end up starting with Jrue where he doesn't have as many ball handling responsibilities? Not that Lou doesn't dominate the ball on the second team, but if Turner doesn't show he can run the point well why does that stop him from starting as an off the ball shooting guard?

Turner needs the ball in his hands to succeed. That's not the same as being a point guard. He is not a PG nor will he ever be.

Besides it's the third day of training camp. I love it how everybody overreacts. I'm infinitely more concerned about Holiday's injury than this.

Clippers and Hornets have submitted a deal to the NBA. Gordon apparently is in the deal, Bledsoe isn't. Paul will pick up his option for 2012-2013 if he is traded to provide some security for the Clippers.

In other news, Prokhorov wants to run for president in Russia. Can't wait for diplomatic actions against a city, if team X, decides not to trade player Y to the Nets.

Ah Russia, still one of the most corrupt countires in the world. I'm glad a leading political figure ouwns an NBA team that's about to be in Brooklyn.

I'm sure even with obtaining chris paul, in his prime, clipper fans (and tray) would prefer to hold out the hope for blake griffin as opposed to obtaining the best center in the game today.

I must say I'm impressed with this move by the clippers, sort of, I'd be more impressed if they gave him the extension right away instead of forcing him to pick up his option so they can trade him next year, maybe to the lakers, when David Stern can't veto it

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stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 10:37
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He did a pretty decent job on college when he ran the point. But I agree with you, his job isn't to run the point. It's to play SG and be the main scoring option on this team. It is nice to have 3 starters that can play the PG position.

Well Jodie Meeks doesn't play the point guard position either...and Turners only job this year is to do better than he did last year as far as I'm concerned

There's any number of things that could 'improve' the sixers relative record this year, some of them do have to do with Thaddeus Young, but not his scoring, some of them do have to do with Jrue Holiday, but not his mistakes, some of them have to do with Evan Turner, some of them have to do with Lou Williams, some of them ahve to do with Doug COllins.

There ain't a team in the league that 'couldn't do better' of course, I still think the sixers will hover around 500 and lose in the first round to the heat or bulls

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stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 10:29
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I still think they have the potential to be a 50 win team or in this season's case a 40 win team. Time will tell, but I'm no so optimistic with Jrue's injury.

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 12:42
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Jrue's mistakes are a big part of what happens this year, actually. Whether he's staying out of foul trouble, not committing the lazy turnover, not taking a quick three in the shot clock, they all matter. Jrue with a more refined game is very important to this team.

Wolves sign Barea to 4 year deal

Cause you can never have too many short guys

Heh. Dollar figure?

No word yet, but man - that's guaranteed to make K Love wanna max out don't you think?

The Rubio bust parade will be fun this year

19m 4 years

20 million for your 3rd string PG- not bad.

I don't know who Drew Unga is but he claims this

http://twitter.com/#!/DrewUnga/status/146258775014248449

A friend of mine just called to inquire about Clippers season tix and was told the trade was agreed to and just awaiting NBA approval.

Which sounds like the Clippers ticketing agents at 8 am on the west coast know the deal is done

Rumors regarding Gordon in or out of the deal are floating heavily - some claim it's just a smoke screen in case the deal doesn't get done, don't want a pouty Eric Gordon (cause Lamar Odom pouted, all future trades will worry that everyone is like Lamar Odom, instead of being like ALL THE OTHER players in the trade who went back to work instead of being whiny bitches), others claim he's just not in it

DA says Clippers will give either Gordon OR Wolves pick - not both

http://twitter.com/#!/daldridgetnt/status/146264695416950784

I think I'd rather have the Wolves' pick

I think i'd rather have the wolves pick and kaman and iguodala on the sixers

but no one listens to me :)

In my plan I think the Clippers have a better roster and give up less players.

And before everyone gets all 'oh the clippers are committed'. If they were REALLY committed they'd sign Paul to an extension, not just guarantee 2 seasons on his original contract

I would make that trade. In fact there are 3 directions this team can go to-

1. Trade Iguodala for young prospects and draft picks. Build with Jrue, Turner, and the high draft pick you get in the lottery.

2. Trade Hawes and Nocioni for Okafur and be competitive in the East.

3. Keep what you have, amnesty Brand in 2012 and hope to sign Howard.

I'd rather have the Wolves pick, and it's really not because I'm all that excited over this draft. I just think getting a piece in the draft that you have under contract for four years is going to be of more value to the Hornets than getting Gordon and having to extend him after next season.

So Stern just seems to determined to not trade chris paul if you believe broussard

Sources say in addition to Bledsoe, league asking for another pick from Minny. Stern is trying to make this impossible.

Hollinger thinks OKC is the best fit for Chauncey of the teams who can put in a silent bid for him tonight in his amnesty auction.

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 13:15
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Well if you are all in, he would be an upgrade over Maynor. It would be interesting to see what they do with Maynor then. He doesn't even play 20 minutes a game as is.

Broussard says league has pulled out again maybe

http://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard/status/146291307575394306

So that would be turning down one trade for immediate assets who can play ball and turning down another trade that gets picks, youth, and expiring contracts

Oh yeah - this is all about the best 'basketball move' for the Hornets.

Stern is going to force Paul to play out the year in New Orleans, generating TONS of bad will from the union already pissed at him, and he's going to screw the Hornets franchise will lose Paul for nothing.

And oh yeah, those ridiculous 'plantation' comparisons will come by the bushel (of cotton no less)

Stern couldn't screw this up more if he TRIED

Aldridge reported right after Broussard that the deal was "close" but not quite done.

And Woj reports a confirmation of Broussars pull out :)

Love twitter

Eh, said deal could be dying. Broussard said the same.

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Jason reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 13:21
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We've found a worse GM than Khan?

Demps is a fine GM - he's made two trades that while not ideal didn't rape the hornets

This is on stern - again the stupid dogged determination to keep a floundering franchise in a floundering city - for a guy who is so smart - his approach to the hornets situation is completely asinine.

Well if he ends up getting more than anyone thought possible he will end up being smart, right? the jury is out on this one, but it's boom or bust for Stern at this point.

For the record, i believe Paul to the clippers will get done very very soon.

Dwight Howard explaining his trade demand. "Nobody wants to stay in the same place. You either barbecue or mildew. I want to barbecue."

What the hell does that even mean?

He's hungry?

He doesn't know. But he heard it from Dr. Phil and liked it.

So now supposedly dwight will consider staying in Orlando is 'some things change'

Which to me is not news - of course he'll stay if they look like they can win a title - but the media will blow it out of proportion.

Changes Dwight Wants

1. Name him the first ever player GM in the history of the NBA
2. Give him a max contract and 10% of team
3. Obtain Pau Gasol and Chris Paul

Then he'll think about it

Maybe Goofy's rubbin' off on him. Dwight needs to get back to watchin' Wilt highlights and working on his game, two separate endeavors.

2 down - 27 to go?

Woj

Deal is dead, "for now, anyway," source tells Y!.Could still be restructured again, but Clippers resisting steep asking price for Paul.

Stern determined to remove all remnants of a legacy he might have had as soon as humanly possible

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 14:36
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Bledsoe, Aminu + Minnesota's pick is fair compensation for Paul, considering he's not signing an extension.


Time to propose that 3-team trade, Harris.

Clips should've done it.

Have we seen a reliable report of what the hornets were asking finally?

Anywhere but LA

last i saw was gordon, aminu, bledsoe and the minny pick. haven't seen anything at all about what the clips were willing to give up.

As i understand they asked for: Gordon,Aminu,Bledsoe,Kaman and the Minny pick. The Clippers were unwilling to part with both Gordon and the Minny pick. They would only trade one of those two assets.

The hornets wanted the moon, the clips offered a little less, the hornets didnt' negotiate.

Seems like Sterns MO

Larry Ellison is laughing at Stern rigth now i bet

I hope NOH puts in minimum bids on all amnestied players. How funny would it be to see Billups on the verge of free agency only to have to go to NOH for the league minimum.

Btw, has anyone heard anything about Fesenko? I'd love to get him in for depth at the five (and a guy can actually defend at the five). Shouldn't cost as much as Speights, either, if they wind up moving Speights.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 16:36
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Still available I believe. Have no idea why they didn't take a flyer on him instead of bringing back the closer. Don't know much about the guy but the scouting report describes him as someone this team could use.

Maybe Thorn has been to busy keeping Fast Eddie's seat warm down at Chili's to try to maneuver such a haul.

Improbable. Word around town is Thorn prefers Cracker Barrel Old Country Store. Runner-up, Applebee's.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 16:39
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Still available I believe. Have no idea why they didn't take a flyer on him instead of bringing back the closer. Don't know much about the guy but the scouting report describes him as someone this team could use.

Maybe Thorn has been to busy keeping Fast Eddie's seat warm down at Chili's to try to maneuver such a haul.

All these non trades - the hornets only have about 6/7 players under contract right now...can't have them spending any more money now can we mr stern you buffoon

According to Marc Stein

One of "changes" Dwight Howard wants is signing of Chauncey. If DH12 stays, sources say he'll urge Billups to spurn Heat and "anchor" Magic

And that Dwight is why you aren't the GM or should be consulted

Billups would be better fit than Jameer. Howard would make a better GM than Otis Smith.

Yes, with his high school education I'm sure Dwight Howard could clearly navigate the intricacies of the CBA

The Pacers used their amnesty, I think they might be in on Billups. They seem to think they're going to make some noise in the playoffs this year. Really, any team w/ cap space and even an outside shot at the playoffs should put a bid in for Billups, for "basketball reasons" if nothing else.

Hah! Woj just had a great thought on Twitter:

If Orlando believes signing Billups could help keep Dwight Howard, clearly Nets are suggesting: Well, maybe Big Shot won't be a free agent.

Doesn't mean anything on the court, but this is a good story about the new owners' approach to business and PR, I think.

I was just about to post the same article :). I know this has nothing about winning per se, but i view this as a major positive. Thinking outside of the box is key, and social media is a major part of the current age.

Btw, if that guy is such a Sixers fan and an Internet junky surely he has posted on Depressed Fan right?

This sounds great:

"While there’s been no official transition of power, general manager Dell Demps has been completely pushed to the side in deal-making decisions for the Hornets, multiple league sources told Y! Sports.

“He’s basically a spectator now,” one official said.

Stern has two of his top league office executives – Joel Litvin and Stu Jackson – making calls and conducting negotiations with teams interested in Paul. Demps is still making calls, but rival front offices and agents involved in possible deals with New Orleans say that he’s no longer authorized to decide on any transaction.

Teams interested in Paul have to send formal “bids” to the league office, sources said."

Admittedly, it would look a little ridiculous if Kaman were the best player one got back in a Paul deal, the pick notwithstanding. But this has become absurd. The whole league, the whole free agency market, is in limbo because people don't know where Paul's going. The Lakers have already been forced to break up a championship team and send away the Sixth Man of the Year. And the Hornets, who the league is so expertly running, have 5 players under contract and agents don't want to deal with them.

Admittedly, it would look a little ridiculous if Kaman were the best player one got back in a Paul deal, the pick notwithstanding

If one viewed it that way one would be an idiot since Kaman is only in the trade as an expiring contract.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:07
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One would be, though if you prefer you could think of Aminu as the best player in the deal. But we do have this tradition, in the league, of the big press conference after the trade where you stand with your newly acquired players and talk about how they'll help the team so much. Now imagine this press conference where your big haul is two very mediocre rookies and Chris Kaman. People bitched about the Gasol deal and they got Marc Gasol back.

Someday you'll learn what is spin and what is real - if you want to buy into the spin - please do - it doesn't surprise me - just because it's tradition doesn't mean it's smart.

Kaman isn't a long term player in any deal he's in - it's about the cap room, rookie deals, and picks that new orleans was going to get.

Stern is a buffoon -

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:12
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I'm just saying that teams have fans, most of them very dumb, and it doesn't look good to tell those fans that the best player we got back for Chris Paul is Kaman, or if you don't want to even count him because he's walking, your preference between Bledsoe and Aminu. This is why teams don't often do these sorts of blow-the-whole-thing-up deals, and why we got stuck with Andre Miller.

I'd fire Demps for agreeing to that Lakers deal, but that's just me.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:10
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It wasn't such a bad deal because Martin has real value, as did the others. Nothing says they have to stand pat with those players.

So you can't get anything of value for Chris Paul, but you will be able to parlay three lesser pieces - much, much lesser pieces, into something of value, huh? What did the Lakers get for Odom. That's silly logic.

What did the Lakers get for Odom?

Exactly what they wanted (if we're going to believe what people say). They didn't want to trade Odom until he demanded it, so they figure they should save cap / tax money.

Sealed Bids for a traded player?

How long has David Stern be the commissioner? Does he not know how these things work?

I haven't seen anyone comment here on Mayo to Indiana for McRoberts/Rush. I think with Mayo and West, though some people here don't like either, they become, I don't know, about a .580 team.

47 wins in a regular-length season? Eh. I think they kind of need Foster or someone like that on the inside to make up for West and Hibbert's softness. Though when I look at Hibbert's numbers, he blocks some shots and isn't a bad rebounder. How the hell did he shoot 46% from the floor, though?

A sub 500 team becomes a close to 600 team by obtaining OJ Mayo

How does that NOT make sense to you?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:17
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Mayo AND West. Two pretty good, pretty efficient scorers. (Mayo had a bad year last year - year prior, TS% of .551, shooting .383 from three.) Pacers, as you know, had very little offense last year, Granger and not much else. Good defensive team though, and they got a lot better under Vogel and played the Bulls to a statistical draw in the first round.

The Pacers lost in 5 games, were outscored by 37 points in the series.

The Sixers lost in 5 games, were outscored by 27 points in the series.

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Rich reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:31
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"Nah, we actually got killed."

Seriously though, I'm pretty sick of national writers talking up the Pacers and how competitive they were against the Bulls. First off, that's not usually how it works in terms of teams getting better. If they are going to use that methodlology though, and not say anything about the Sixers doing the same exact thing against the team that beat the Bulls in 5, well I just have no hope.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:35
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I didn't say anything about the Sixers' loss. Though 27 points of that 37-point differential were accumulated in one game, first four was -10.

And against Orlando a couple of years ago, the Sixers were -8 in the first round (against the team that went to the finals), against Detroit the year before that, they were +8 through 4 games. What you're saying about the Pacers really doesn't mean anything, and if it did, it would hold just as much meaning for the Sixers. In fact, the Pacers are kind if in the same boat as the Sixers were the year after they lost to the Pistons in the first round, only the Sixers actually won two games in that series and they wound up paying more for Brand than Indy will for West. OJ Mayo's TS% last year makes Willie Green cringe.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:46
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All true, but we didn't make any improvements. We lost Miller and added Jrue, we lost Dalembert and added Hawes, we compensated for that by getting Brand healthy and Thad playing at a fairly high level. If we added Mayo and West to our team, I'd expect us to win 47 games in an 82-game season too.

Dunleavy was head-and-shoulders above Mayo last season.

In fact, Dunleavy was more productive than Mayo has ever been in his career last season, so how does replacing Dunleavy with Mayo equal an increase at all? If anything, it'll probably cost them games. So adding David West is going to improve them by 10 games, or more to make up for the deficit Mayo causes?

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:54
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I think I'm saying that Mayo had an aberrantly bad year. You know that I'm saying that, I said it two or three posts up. Not only was he better in his first two seasons - and usually players get better from their rookie season, not worse - it's been pretty well-documented that he wasn't so happy down there, had a rocky year, various off-court distractions.

He was better in his first two seasons than the 2010-2011 version of OJ Mayo, but he was never better than Dunleavy was last year for Pacer (the Pacers team that won 37 games), yet somehow replacing Dunleavy with Mayo is supposed to help them win more games. Seems logical.

Oh right david west, old and coming off major injury, that should go well

Dude scored 19 ppg. You don't know what you're talking about

The irony inherent in your statement about what I know is palpable.

Is a torn ACL significant?

Nope. Gamers are gamers. You can take the boy out the hood, But you cant take the hood out boy

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:39
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is Stan for real or is he doing some type of performance art character

I was actually wondering after some comments regarding DeAndre Jordan and a few other things, I've come to the conclusion that Stan is probably still in high school

High school mentality

Insulting to high schoolers

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johnrosz on Dec 12 at 17:02
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Brian, have you considered trying to set up an interview with Adam Aron? He's been pretty accessible on twitter, I've gotten a number of responsnes

As long as you don't ask about the actual team or improving the team on the court - sure.

Nah, haven't tried. That dude who set up the two twitter accounts followed me right before the Sixers took them over, though. Pretty funny.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 17:43
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turns out they hired that guy to run their social media. we should all make up random mascot twitter accounts.

Also, saw on twitter that the owners are replacing our PA announcer. I could never stand that guy, but perhaps some of you liked him. John Schuhmann of NBA.com said it so I assume it's true, though maybe David Stern will step in and veto the firing.

Many people said it - and like most of the 'ballyhooed' moves of the new ownership group - i really don't give a shit.

The roster and the record is what matters and what indicates their track record as owners, not their stupid mascot contest

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:32
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I think that a pleasant fan experience increases attendance, which increases revenues, and which makes a team a more attractive free agent destination. Players don't like to play for teams that no one cares about. The Sixers fan experience hasn't changed much since the mid-90s. Obviously you're not a fan who cares much about this stuff, but many others do, as evidenced by the amount of participation in the mascot poll.

Please let me know the day you pull your head out of your rectum

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 17:42
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So you basically think that it's a smart idea for a team to have the creepiest mascot, the crappiest PA announcer, the dullest arena, the ugliest cheerleaders, the worst halftime entertainment, and that none of this has an effect on attendance or the future of the franchise.

Actually, the Sixers didn't really have any of that, but it's all meaningless. No one goes to games to see a halftime show (except maybe the relatives of the performers). It's all window dressing. They'll draw big crowds when they have a legit shot at winning, or they're playing inspiring basketball. Attendance really picked up last year as they started playing better ball, ugly cheerleaders and all. They only drew less than 15K one time in their last 10 home games (vs. DET, in the second-to-last game).

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 18:01
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We definitely had the creepiest mascot, the thing looked like a crappy horror movie doll.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 18:02
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ugly cheerleaders? I don't know if I can agree there

If you're going to an nba game to see the cheerleaders - go to a strip club - or watch porn at home - sheesh

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Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 18:05
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shhh, with the lowered prices it's cheaper to go to a sixer game. with binoculars, it's almost the same experience!

With a 46 inch hi def television i'd think a couch would be more comfortable - and less expensive (now if only league pass would be in hi def where i live ;)

I've often considered heading down to the staples center to watch the sixers play (the clippers) but it's not really worth it unless you're getting 'good' seats which even for clippers games would be a minimum of 200 a piece in addition to a bunch of other costs (and gas - crap at 4 a gallon)

Course that was before the arrival of the untradeable Griffin

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Court_visioN reply to Tray on Dec 12 at 17:54
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where are these halftime entertainment rankings you speak of? can't find them anywhere.

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sfw reply to Tray on Dec 12 at 18:00
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Never liked that guy either. Glad they are trying to change the fan experience down there.

While defending his Lamar Odom move during a press conference, Mitch Kupchak claimed that the Lakers were still in negotiations for more then one 'big deal'.

Not that I expect the sixers are involved in anything aside from finding some sucker to take Mareese Speights, but hey.

Peripheral business, but I applaud the hiring of Tom Lamaine as PA announcer. Radio/TV broadcast veteran with rich voice who carries himself with class; longtime Sixers fan. Cord, former radio DJ if I'm not mistaken, was loud remnant of Croce era pump-it-up presentation. Stefanski, Hip-hop, Cord... baby steps. (Cord was placed elsewhere in organization.)

clippers placed a bid on Chauncey Billups

And to do that they had to either let Jordan go or amnesty someone.

Do you think the clippers know they can't trade him?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 19:13
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Clippers just matched Jordan's offer sheet.

Yep. It'll actually be more fun if they don't get Paul. Then you can spend the whole season coming up with excuses for why they didn't make the playoffs.

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 19:37
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Because they're very young, have an awful coach, and have three good players. It's very simple. I know you're mad that their future is a million times brighter than ours, but don't let it cloud your rationality. If Gordon doesn't miss a third of the season, though, I will predict a 34-32 year for them.

W/out Paul they don't top last year's win total. I'm saying 30 wins. And exactly how bright will their future be when Blake Griffin realizes it's a loser organization with an asshole owner and bolts at his first opportunity, probably to go somewhere else and play with a guy like Chris Paul.

See this is the clippers first move in their master plan to obtain dwight howard who said today he'd like to see the magic get billlups.

GENIUS

Signing JJ Barea nt even the most foolish thing that David Kahn did today

Source says 43rd pick Malcolm Lee signed 3-yr guaranteed deal with Minnesota.

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Jason reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 18:18
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4 years 19 million for JJ barea is decent imo.

On a team going nowhere with how many guards?

Seriously - the wolves are going to run a set with 5 players all 6 feet or under this year - watch

Kahn's living vicariously in a most serious way. Is lobbying league to have rims lowered to 9'6". Has contacted Mugsy Bogues, Spud Webb, Dana Barros and Charlie Criss about coming out of retirements. Rambis was a shipwreck as the head coach of a young squad but, at the same time, Minny personnel is a little short in every respect.

I'm waiting for news on Xavier Silas. His dad James was a nice offensive player. Collins, who I'm sure got schooled by Pop at times, will probably give son a longer look.

Well you know the sixers really need that 15th man that won't get any minutes

Are you sure, given time & opportunity, he can't become better than Meeks?

No - but then again - that's not much of a goal

True. Smart aim though in his first camp. (The Alamo wasn't built in a day.)

Jason Quick - covers the trail blazers for the oregoninan - on twitter - in succession

I still think Reggie Evans might be in play for the Blazers

THEN

Another possible free agent I could see helping this team ... Willie Green

For the worry warts - from Tom Moore

#Sixers Holiday is scrimmaging.

#Sixers starters are Holiday, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand and Hawes - same as last year.

#Sixers Turner just missed open 3, but form was good. Vucevic looks a little lost.

That's what they said about Kenny Payne and Leo Rautins.

As to Billups, there was some talk (ESPN, Howard Beck of the New York Times) that the sticking point in the negotiations was Bledsoe, insane as that sounds and is. So if Billups is there, perhaps it makes Bledsoe more movable.

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Stan reply to Tray on Dec 12 at 21:03
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??? They're moving Bledsoe for Chris Paul. Why would having Billups make Bledsoe more movable? Doesn't make sense.

what the hell? can someone make their mind up

@ESPNSteinLine
Marc Stein Just filed w/@Chris_Broussard: Sources close to talks tell ESPN there is renewed momentum to seal @CP3 trade to Clippers as soon as Tueday

The clippers roster situation changed...

:)

But more importantly, the NBA needs this not to drag out. Paul is going to leave, and the way they're handling this makes them look like bumbling idiots which really doesn't encourage any potential buyers coming into the league.

Not to mention, cause or not, the threat of a lawsuit from the players association less than a week after signing the CBA is just bad...

Berger said this

Ken Berger: Re: revival of CP3 talks with Clips, which began earlier today, source says, "The league has no choice. They have nowhere else to go." Twitter

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 12 at 21:49
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No cause. Unfortunately.

As to the revived talks, it's pretty simple, isn't it? Either Stern is willing to bite the bullet and just take the pick, or he's not. What else is there to talk about, Willie Warren? Can't imagine the league has any interest in Jordan's $43 million contract. So either they're willing to drop their demands or they're not. Unless there's any truth to the rumor that talks broke down because of Bledsoe, which multiple people have reported but which seems impossible.

They're just waiting for Philly to pull that 3-team trade. It's time for the 5th biggest market to start being relevant. Pull the trigger Harris.

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johnrosz on Dec 12 at 22:25
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ET is back with the 2nd unit, should we be reading into this? Kind of banking on a huge step forward for him this season

I read into it that he won't be starting. Collins loves Meeks even though he can't dribble, pass, or defend. He's not even that great a 3-point shooter, just mediocre for a specialist. Collins simply doesn't like Turner's game and tough attitude and it wouldn't shock me if he tries to get Turner shipped out of town. A shame, because Collins will quit a year later. Same BS Collins pulled with Theo Ratliff in Detroit, never played him, got him shipped out, and then Collins got dumped and Ratliff became a great piece for the Sixers.

In the two do-or-die games in the playoffs last year, Collins played Turner more than Meeks. You're strange anti-Meeks obsession is clouding things. Turner was given every opportunity last year and I'm sure he will be this year as well.

You sell Meeks way too short. The guy shot 39.7% from three on a ton of attempts, he's a legit threat from deep and he doesn't hurt you anywhere else. He's a viable option if Turner hasn't improved enough over the summer, especially if he's playing between Jrue and Iguodala. That's not ideal, obviously, because this team doesn't approach their ceiling if Turner doesn't pan out, but putting it on Collins is silly.

While I won't hesitate to admit to Meeks-hating (guilty as charged), I simply don't agree that Turner was given "every opportunity" last year. There were many occasions when Turner would make one mistake (a missed shot, a turnover) and get taken out of the game. Similar treatment was not given to other players, at least not the level that Turner got it.

Late in the season, Turner lost pretty much all his minutes, for no reason. Even Noc was taking his minutes. Turner only got to play in the playoffs because LouWill got hurt with 5 games left in the season, forcing Collins to play Turner because no one was left. Turner played well and that's why he ended up getting playoff minutes. I'll give Collins credit for seeing that Turner played very well at the end, and thus sticking with him. But there was absolutely no reason for Collins to have taken away all of Turner's minutes before LouWill got hurt.

We'll see what happens this year.

We have different memories of last season, then. I recall several times where Turner was handed opportunities (in Portland when Iguodala was hurt is one example) and flubbed them away. I also remember at least a few games where he was seriously spiraling out of control, with one mistake after another. That's not unusual for a rookie, and it's not a definitive sign for the future, but he earned his lack of minutes in my eyes.

I remember Turner putting up pretty good numbers when Iggy was hurt. Turner definitely had games with mistakes, sure, like you said it comes with being a rookie. And sure, some games he deserved less minutes. But from my viewpoint there were too many games when he got under 15 minutes, especially the final month of the season.

Would this trade give the Sixers a legit shot at the finals this year?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7k7ys4d

Paul, Meeks, Iguodala, Brand, Okafor starting lineup with Thad as 6th man and only Hawes/the Voose behind him.

NOH would get Jrue, who I value pretty highly, Turner, who should have more value than Bledsoe and Aminu, a bunch of expiring contracts and the Sixers throw in their #1 pick from next year (or the year after).

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Tray reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 22:35
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Turner may have played his value away. Bledsoe and Aminu, though they didn't have great seasons, had a lot of moments where one could see their upside. But I think a lot of teams believe Turner's a player without a position after last year. In any event, the Clippers' Minny pick is a lot better than what we've got to offer, and Gordon, like it or not, is rated a bit more highly than Jrue. There are a lot of great young point guards out there these days and virtually no good young 2s.

And no, no chance at the Finals. We would still not score nearly enough.

Of course, Gordon's an RFA next summer, so you could see him as a one-year rental for NOH. Jrue is under team control for two more. And given the choice between a young PG to build around or a young SG who doesn't distribute, I'll take the young PG.

That lineup is better than any lineup Paul ever had in NOH, though there's very little depth. I think they'd have a shot of getting out of the East. You've got solid guys at the four and five, a very good wing and an SG who can spread the floor to play around CP3. It would depend on how they'd fill out the roster. I'd roll the dice if this could get it done.

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Rich reply to Tray on Dec 12 at 22:40
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People couldn't see Turner's upside in the Miami series?

Not like they could see Aminu's in the Clippers 50 losses, apparently.

LOL - was going to post the same thing.

I could, but Turner still has the bust reputation for whatever reason. Doesn't help that his coach seems to share those sentiments. I bet for the life of me that Evan Turner would've had identical stats as John Wall in DC had the Sixers won the lottery and the Wizards the #2 pick.

.494 TS% and 0.041 WS/48? Don't set the bar too high. Counting stats don't mean a whole lot in a vacuum.

I don't think Wall had a super rookie year by any means. But he was deemed a new superstar by the NBA media, while Turner was called a bust. I'm just saying Turner's "bust" reputation around the NBA is very misguided.

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Rich reply to stoned81 on Dec 12 at 23:00
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I agree with this, mostly. Wall and Turner's situations were at opposite ends of the spectrum in not being very desirable. In my opinion, Turner didn't really quantitatively get enough time, while Wall's time was qualitatively very lacking.

Alas, people see Wall's stats and heap praise on him. Some perspective is needed.

Good points, agreed.

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Rich reply to stoned81 on Dec 12 at 22:55
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I'm not sure if that's such a great thing either. Sure, Wall put up numbers and played the desirable number of minutes that you would want a rookie to play. It's just that there's something about the way the Wizards played last year, really the least coordinated team I've seen in awhile on a basketball court. It was awful basketball (even outside of wins and losses), really and Wall, while not the primary offender, was certainly a part of it.

Oh totally, like I said to Brian above, I wasn't endorsing Wall, I was joint pointing out how foolish the "bust" media campaign against Turner is. Wall is anointed a future star for a performance that Turner could've easily replicated in a similar position.

I don't think any team with Jodie Meeks as the starting shooting guard goes to the finals. Same problem Chicago ran into last year with Keith Bogans. These guys are borderline D-leaguers, you can't go deep into the playoffs with these guys starting at the 2.

DeShawn Stevenson was the starting two guard for the world champs last year.

Fair point, but Terry took all the minutes at the 2. The Sixers with your above team, and the Bulls last year, have nothing at the 2, starter or bench. The Mavs just like Terry coming off the bench, but he was the de facto starting 2-guard.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 23:26
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doug collins likes having 2 ball handlers on the court at any given time, so i think the idea is jrue and iguodala are the ballhandlers for the starting unit, and the second unit would have lou and turner. I still think Turner will get the bulk of the minutes down the stretch, and I think that's good enough for me.

On an unrelated note, there gonna be SixersBeat this season?

Yeah, the first episode will be the Thursday before the first game. I think it's the 22nd.

Video of Collins a couple things, first Collins talked early about how it all went to shit when they didn't have Jrue running the point. Good sign.

Second, he talked about Brackins at the three operating like Meeks, spreading the floor. Can Brackins shoot well enough to be that guy at the three? I haven't seen anything like that from him.

He also sort of skirts the issue of who's going to start at the two.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 23:29
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he definitely doesn't lack for confidence in his jumper.

Sounds like right now Doug is leaning towards starting the season with Jodie at the 2. That can change, but I guess I was kind of hoping for ET to come into camp and leave Doug no other choice but to start him

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MCT reply to Brian on Dec 12 at 23:37
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I think it's pretty clear that Jodie will start again. He probably is a better fit with the other 4 starters, but I highly doubt they can repeat their success from last year with that lineup. I would bet my mortgage that they won't actually. I think Collins is a decent coach, but I don't understand why he would give up on a JTI lineup after a few practices. Let them play some games first for Christ's sake.

I wouldn't stop there as far as changing the starting lineup. I'd sit Hawes down and go with their best combo up front to start games, hopefully you can avoid double-digit holes from Hawes early impolosions. Jrue, Turner, Iguodala, Thad, Brand.

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MCT reply to Brian on Dec 13 at 0:00
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Whatever happens, I hope that lineup gets a lot of time together.

Read yet another report from ESPN making it out that Bledsoe and an extra first-round pick were the dealbreaker, but that the Clippers would perhaps do Gordon/Minny pick/Aminu/Kaman. If that's the case, perhaps this will really happen.

The Clips would be crazy not to. Unless they prefer missing the playoffs and being an eternal laughing stock.


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