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Time At the Five

Court_visioN on Dec 22 at 2:36

"the Sixers were -56 with Brand at the four last season, and +195 with him at the FIVE"

think that's what you meant?

Dwight reply to Court_visioN on Dec 22 at 2:56

They were -56 with Hawes as the five.

This season it looks like he's gotten a little bit better in the rebounding department, but he will remain a liability.

Vucevic has already proven in preseason to be a better defender and rebounder. The sooner that he can learn the offense and be a regular rotation player, the sooner Hawes can be replaced and the Sixers can take a step forward as a contender.

Court_visioN reply to Dwight on Dec 22 at 3:03

how did you get that vucevic is a better defender and rebounder? his 2 rebounds in 17 mins/game?

I don't know what it is about our replacement level centers that elicits weird, fringey opinions from people.

About the game tonight, Paul seems a little out of sorts so far in LA, but Griffin's going to have a monster year. They have defensive issues they need to address there if they want to contend, though. Jordan's a highlight-reel shot-blocker, but he doesn't seem to be much of a positional defender.

Dwight reply to Court_visioN on Dec 22 at 12:33

Vucevic had more rebounds per minute in the second preseason game.

He also has a much larger wingspan than Hawes and can jump higher, making him already a better rebounder and shot blocker.

Being taller and able to jump higher doesn't automatically make you a better rebounder or a better shotblocker. Kevin Love is the best rebounder on the planet and there are about 100 guys in the league who are taller and can jump higher than him.

Good catch, this is fixed. It's +195 w/ him at the five.

Hawes was -52 in total last season, and he only played the five.

It kinda shows how week the center position is league wide if Brand can play that many minutes at the 5 spot. If you can get productive reserve minutes out of a 6'10 Elton Brand at 32, a 21 year old 7 foot Nick Vucevic should be able to do the same or better.

I'm just hoping that Collins doesn't shatter the rookies confidence early like he did Turner last year. He's already stated that he doesn't want to rush Vucevic. With such a tight schedule he's going to have to be productive early and often.

jkay reply to KellyDad on Dec 22 at 3:35

I am inclined to agree with Collins on this one. I like his attitude on defense but unless something changes fast, he cannot play C in an NBA game.

Brian's words elucidate my concerns best; but when you couple the limited physical tools with rookie mistakes, you're left with a huge liability in the middle.

Tray reply to KellyDad on Dec 22 at 3:36

Yeah, if a 6'10 aging former all-star/all-nba 3d teamer can hack it, then why, any random young 7 footer can do. We should just bring in Brian Zoubek - bet he could do the same or better than brand.

Here is some homework for you, name me one backup center in the NBA that you can say is hands down better than Vucevic? Then name me player who are listed as centers are "true" centers?

And notice everything you stated about brand was preceded by the word "former".

I'd say there are 8 teams with a situation at backup center that's worse than having the Voose as your backup. 7 teams don't really have a backup center (HOU, CLE, IND, LAL, MEM, NYK, WAS) and the 8th team has Eddy Curry as their backup.

Of course, a lot of those teams have PFs they can slide to the five to spell their starter.

The Voose is really nothing right now. He's got physical limitation that he may overcome, eventually, but in the two preseason games he played, he was a terrible rebounder and a really poor defender. He made one or two decent plays on the defensive end and showed one quick-ish move in the post in the last game, so maybe there's hope, but not much.

I remembered how you cried like a baby on draft night when Vucevic was chosen so I'm finding it hard to take you evaluation of him as unbiased/fair.

My point is you dont have to be an elite athlete to be a productive center in this league simply because there aren't many productive center period. Starters or otherwise.

Just look at Javale Mcgee as an example. You cant get a better athlete at center but his carreer numbers are very pedestian.

deepsixersuede on Dec 22 at 4:41

I hope our 2nd unit's offensive capabilities allow Vucevic to play 8 to 12 minutes a night as the ultimate role player.

Solid defensive rotations, screens and limited touches with our trio of Thad,Evan and Lou limiting his offensive responsibilities , similar to what Iavoroni did a few seasons ago.

1. Hawes had a career year in terms of rebounding, and he looks like he will be even better this year. He was a bad rebounder in Sac, and a bit abvoe average last year. But Hawes does not contest shots well and cannot play the pick and roll.

2. Voose atually seems more mobile than I expected. He lacks explosiveness but does not seem overly plodding. And his long arms seem to disrupt shooters more than Hawes with his T-Rex arms. Hawes is taller than Voose, but has 8 inches less standing reach....

3. My biggest concern with Voose is that he seems weak on the D-Board and useless on the O-Boards. I actually expect that to dramatically improve as he adjusts to the NBA game, but it could take 1-2 years (Much like Hawes rebounded poorly his first few years.)

Do you think 20% DREB is average for a center?

Tk76 reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 17:34
Tk76 reply to Tk76 on Dec 22 at 17:38

Hawes 22.6 per that site.

That's bad. So essentially, the average center gets 1/5 of the available defensive rebounds, or the perfect share of what the team should get. I guess a bit higher if you consider the team DRB% should be 75-80%. Kind of illustrates just how dominant Dalembert was on the defensive glass his last couple of years in Philly.

The other night afte Mcgee's monster dunk on the rook, he continued playing through like nothing happened. He doesn't appear intimidated, whatsoever. His lack of athleticism doesn't help him protect the rim but his defensive effort, intelligence/maturity(for his age) and Ball skills, I think, will get him limited minutes in the rotation(8 min a game?). So, at center, Hawes(3o-32min), Elton(10-12) and Vuce(6-8) sounds about right to me.

The PA announcer did not announce Vuce's first appearance on the home floor. Somehow, the rookie/veteran(?) PA announcer missed him entering the game. In general, I like TL's style and genuine enthusiasm. He made some mistakes but he seems real, not using a schtick like the previous guy.

I don't see how you can expect Hawes to play 30+ minutes/game.

sfw reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 14:26

Hoping he will be improved physically and play consistant ball. Looking for 11 pts & 9 plus reb's a game. Gotta Believe!

Off topic, but one encouraging thing to me in the two games was Turner. He is getting to the line, which this team badly needs. If he keeps his aggression up over the haul, he is going to turn out just fine.

Jrue, Lou and Turner combined to go 22/24 from the line in that last game. Definitely need to see more of that.

Hey Brian,

I might be missing the point about the New Comments widget button on the left hand side, but the number stays at 0 despite there being new comments on a thread? Or does this only reference comments made by me?

The number in the box is the number of new comments since you loaded the page. Meaning, it's the number of comments waiting to be read that you can't see. If you click the number, it will reload the page, and the new comments will be there, and will be marked unread. It updates every 30 seconds and checks if there are new comments waiting in the system that you aren't seeing. It's best used during game threads.

raro reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 10:31

Gotcha. I was hitting refresh on my browser as opposed to waiting for the number to update itself.


You figure out how to watch all the christmas day games yet? If so, you going to have a running thread for them?

I'm going to be in and out all day. We're having both families over some time in the afternoon, so those will be hit or miss, but by the time the night games start my wife will be exhausted and happy for me to be distracted, so I should be fully in for those. I'll have a thread up, definitely. Going to be a great sports weekend.

And the eagles STILL HAVE A SHOT :)

Ugh. Jrue's achilles better not linger. From Mike Preston on Twitter:

Lou (left hamstring strain) & Jrue (left Achilles tendon strain) both go through non-contact drills only today, listed as day-to-day.

ESPN award predictions:

Coach of the year: Collins got one vote (of 30). Vinny Del Negro got 2.

Rookie of the year: Zero votes for the Voose.

Defensive POY: Zero votes for anyone on the Sixers. Tony Allen got a couple, as did DeAndre Jordan. Mostly Dwight.

Sixth Man of the year: Two votes for Thad, none for Lou.

Most Improved: One vote for Turner.

MVP: Zero votes for the Sixers. Only LeBron, Durant and CP3 received votes. Not a single vote for Rose to repeat.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 12:56

No, two for Collns. McMenamin and Forsberg.

You're right, I missed the first one.

The Clippers hype got out of hand very quickly.

Two of ESPN's brighter commentators, Coon and Arnovitz, predict Thad will win Sixth Man of the year. Hollinger and ten others pick Harden. 2 people predicted Collins will be COY. Jon Barry predicts DPOY for DeAndre Jordan. Remind me to mute him when he talks.

Jason reply to Tray on Dec 22 at 13:56

Jon Barry also predicted ET to be Most Improved.

Tray reply to Jason on Dec 22 at 15:40

He's starting from a very low floor, but I fear that's also way off.

Fesenko is still a free agent, how about adding a big white center to the mix who can actually defend? Does this franchise have something against bigs who can defend or something?

jsmoove reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 14:14

They traded that guy for Herbert Hill or Derrick Byars after originally drafting him didn't they?

Ryan F reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 14:29

If he had a reputation of setting soft screens, loving the mid range game, willing to jack up a 3 every once in a while, AND could play defense, maybe.

Thorn on 94.1.

He talks a bit about Hawes' approach to free agency, "I'm worth more money and I'm going to find someone to give it to me....whoops."

Brook Lopez - foot surgery :)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 22 at 15:06

You're a horrible person

While your opinion of me matters as much as whether or not mars has water, the smile was meant to be about the nets chances of getting howard, since they revolve around brook lopez (and FIVE first round picks) - I should have been more clear. I'm not happy brook lopez got foot surgery

And besides, he still gets paid all his money and it's just foot surgery - it's not like his life is endangered right?

I have the same reaction I always have when a player on a rival team gets hurt. Fuck him.

I just thought all the dwight howard hype made it funny that the 'key' piece was now down with another injury (he was injured last season too)

I expect that when Blake Griffin gets hurt again you'll smile too :)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 22 at 16:10

I should have put a smiley face at the end of my sentence as well. I feel the same way.

Sorry, bad over reaction, job chaos going on - my future is in upheaval possibly - shouldn't post when that's going on :)

Unless anyone here knows a headhunter?

Tom Moore on Dec 22 at 14:32

Thursday Sixers video: Lou Williams, Collins on Williams and Holiday not scrimmaging, and looking ahead to Monday's opener:


Glad he said they're working on plays against a zone. They looked completely unprepared for that in the last Wiz game. Sounds like Jrue and Lou are both fine, just taking no chances, getting them some extra rest.

Willie Green has found a home.

Stan reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 15:05

Veteran leadership!

Basketball Prospectus has the Sixers at 36-30 in their projections.

Tom Moore reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 15:51

Exactly what I said on WIP this morning.

Their writeup is actually pretty good. He spends the last paragraph talking about the Sixers building their young guys up this year, enjoying some success, then making a move for Dwight Howard next summer if he isn't traded before then. That would seriously be the absolute best case scenario right now.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 18:31

Pretty implausible too.

Aren't most absolute best cases pretty implausible? Killjoy

No, I'm killROY

Hey - FOx and TLC are firing Sarah Palin - it's a new day in america - EVERYTHING is possible

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 22 at 20:19

Well, Palin never had the greatest ratings.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 20:19

No - Howard to the Lakers is the Lakers' best case scenario, not implausible in the least.

The Lakers best case is getting rid of Brown, getting Phil Jackson back and getting Dwight Howard. Highly implausible.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 22 at 20:39

Well, if you want to get that picky, our best case might also involve replacing Doug Collins with some coach who's won a title. Collins is good but, never having broken through with Jordan, I have to think he's a second-tier coach.

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