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Team Basketball For the Win

I did really appreciate Jrue's game tonight. In Cousins notes, Matt Moore wrote this. Not positive if he was joking:

The only time the Sacramento Kings did anything to make anyone cheer on Wednesday came when DeMarcus Cousins fouled Kenneth Faried [Tray: and fouled out] with 13 seconds left -- and his team down by 25 -- so that Faried could convert two free throws and send the Denver crowd home with discounted tacos for reaching 100 points.

A real gentleman, that DeMarcus.

Is there anyone on this blog that still believes that Iguodala is still a better basketball player than Jrue Holliday?

Yes! Did you already forget the first two-three games? The ones where Iguodala was dominating and Holiday looked almost as bad as Meeks?

If Holiday can continue to play like he did last night consistently than he will be better than Iguodala but it's still early IMO.

I can't agree you no more!!! :)

Somebody better keep this kind of shit till Jrue can keep this HOF'er like performance every single night.

Not trying to make my comparison based solely off this game but i love both you guys short term memory. Guess you don't remember the second half of last season and the playoffs huh?

I will give you the first five games of this season when Iguodala has been shooting the ball
WAY above his carreer average and Jrue has struggled. I'm going to ask this same question at the All Star break and let's see if you give the same response.

I hope as well Holiday will be better than Iguodala by the allstar break. But last season Iguodala was still better than Holiday even though he was hurt and had probably one of the worse seasons of his career. Holiday was not doing a good job defensively last season especially on the pick and roll. He is getting better in that department this year.

if both players are 100% healthy lets do a check list

jumpshot - Jrue
ball handling - Jrue
defense - Iguodala
passing - push
ability to get to the rim - Jrue
finish with both hands - Jrue
one on one ability - Jrue
court vision - Iguodala
clutch plays - Jrue

Am I missing anything?

Yes you are.

First of all you listed 8 offensive characteristic and only one defensive. Offense = Defense.
ability to get to the rim - Jrue
finish with both hands - Jrue
one on one ability - Jrue
I don't think Jrue is better than Iguodala in any of these characteristic. I would say push here.

Right now i'd say offensively it's 60-40 in Jrue favour, but defensively it's 75-25 in Iguodala's which makes Iguodala slightly better than Holiday. Holiday has a chance to improve both offensively and defensively compared to Iguodala so he can become better than him, but he is not right now. Ask again in two months we'll see where they are then.

Jrue's biggest flaw on defense is he has trouble against the pic andd roll but in a one on one situation he is an above average defender. I still totally give the edge to Iguodala. I just think that Jrue's offensive game is so much smoother than Iguodala's that it makes him the better player.

Not even close. It looks more like this:

jumpshot - Jrue
ball handling - Iguodala
defense - Iguodala
passing - Iguodala
ability to get to the rim - Iguodala
finish with both hands - Iguodala
one on one ability - Iguodala
court vision - Iguodala
clutch plays - Jrue

sooner reply to J on Jan 5 at 9:53

Iggy is not the better ball handler

bebopdeluxe reply to J on Jan 5 at 10:03

You honestly think that in terms of one-on-one ability and ability to get to the rim (other than one 2-on-1 or other fastbreaks) that Iguodala is better than Jrue?


As much as Iguodala handles the ball, when was the last time you saw him beat the press or a double team with his handle? How often do you see Iguodala cross a guy over and finish at the rim? His strenth is reconizing the pressur and finding the open man. Thats why I gave him an advantage in court vision.

Maybe when you see it at the post-up spot.

Post up: Iggy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jrue
Spin Move: Iggy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jrue

After the V-Cut in a post spot, Iggy's dribble, crossover, ball-handing, contact is wonderful.

marcus reply to KellyDad on Jan 5 at 10:00

Lmaoo that's funny iguodala is better than jrue in most of those categories like xsago said iggy worst yr probably last year he still was better than jrue. Jrue can potentially become better than piggy only time will tell

Have you ever taken time to compare their stats from last year?

Mike D reply to KellyDad on Jan 5 at 17:39


Is there anyone on this blog that still believes that Iguodala is still a better basketball player than Jrue Holliday?

jswigga on Jan 5 at 3:30

Great to see Turner play the way he can and should!
Props to all the sixers... 3 and 2 on the road is legit.

Now we got to protect home court.

First in the East!!

> Is there anyone on this blog that still believes that Iguodala is still a better basketball player than Jrue Holliday?


Would you consider starting Lou next to Jrue for the first 4 - 6 minutes just to make sure a 3pt threat is out on the floor? You could go back to the current rotation in the 2nd.

I don't think Lou is that much of a three point threat. Anyway Lou is perfectly suited in the 6th man 24min per game role i don't think Collins should raise his expectations when he is producing in his role.

Ryan F on Jan 5 at 6:36

Who is going to the opener, and what are you expecting from the new ”show”? Im really curious to see the differences and improvements AA has been raving about.

marcus on Jan 5 at 7:35

I like jrue holiday alot but lets not get carried away here iguodala is better than him right now only time will tell if that changes

Spencer for hire on Jan 5 at 8:17

I know Collins took some well deserved flak in the game thread for his lineups at times but 2 things he did were needed; 1]playing Elton more minutes because of the physicalness down low. 2]going with the better perimeter defenders late in the game. He made a comment post game that they weren't prepared for Gordon and Jack's aggresiveness together because they hadn't played much together and adjusted accordingly.

Lou was getting eaten up by Jack. The other thing is Collins seems to be doing things on a , who is doing well at the moment basis this year, and it will be interesting to see if the "team first" attitude persists when on certain nights guys minutes may be limited. I think Elton will handle it well but young guys may not.

I love Iggy as a high I.Q. player but he hasto learn to give the ball to the hot hand, Jrue tonight, when it happens.

bebopdeluxe reply to Spencer for hire on Jan 5 at 10:25

When JTI is playing like that late in the game, Lou is going to be on the bench...sometimes right next to EB (as he was last night).

He had BETTER not whine about it.

There will be some games where it will be Turner on the bench. There will be games - particularly when they need offense and matchups are favorable - that Iguodala will be on the bench. When you can go 8-9 deep with minimal dropoff (which a collaborative-effort team like the Sixers MUST do to be successful), there will be a couple of guys who will be sitting out in the guts of any given game...it won't always be the same guys...and it is going to be the coach's call who those guys are.

If Lou starts woofing about sitting out sometimes, I predict that will not end well.

Any self-respecting player thinks he should be in there at money time. I don't blame Lou for being a little disgruntled, as he (and Hawes) carried them in Gs 1-4. It's not easy playing for Coach Yank-y, who makes quick decisions like the thermostat in my home. The film will acknowledge Turner & Iguodala's impacting D in H2. Give Lou the ball Friday night and he'll get happy again.

Lou didn't say anything, did he?

Nothing that I'm aware of. It's the guys who are laughing when taken out are the ones to worry about. Why did I just think of Sam Dalembert?

bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 5 at 11:21

As long as he is clear about players' roles and the results - more often than not - prove to be successful, I don't see ANYBODY having a problem with your "Coach Yank-y". The problem is when a player puts his own needs ahead of the team...to the team's detriment. In the first 4 games, Lou was great, and they needed him - Jrue was still struggling with his offense and they needed somebody to score the ball in the guts of the game. I am sure that there will be other games where they will need Lou's offense...but last night, they needed to stop Gordon and Jack - and that is NOT in Lou's toolbox.

The phrase "Give Lou the ball Friday night and he'll get happy again" turns my stomach.

Averse to reality? Tums, a favorite for more than 75 years.

If you don't put the ball in his hands, why would you have him on the court? They're payin' him almost 6 mil this year - that's an expensive decoy. Most natural scorer on team, ask your favorite coach.

bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 5 at 21:00

Perhaps I just don't put him on the court sometimes during the guts of the game.

And if I DO put him on the court in the guts of the game, it is because - on THAT night, in THAT game - I think he'll help me win THAT game. I sure as hell ain't gonna put him on the court just to make sure that lil' Lou is HAPPY.

And what about the games where guys like Thad, ET and Brand are on the bench in the guts of the game ( as I am sure will happen frequently - particularly if Hawes continues to play like this. Am I gonna have to worry about whether they are gonna piss and moan about being in at crunch time (on THAT night, in THAT game)? Huh?

My guess is that Collins ain't gonna sweat it too much.

And - if everybody in that 9-man rotation sits out once in a while at crunch-time (which sheer numbers dictate will happen - a LOT), I don't think the other guys are gonna be happy if Lou gets his panties all in a twist when it happens to him...right?

I <3 Ty on Jan 5 at 10:10

Are you talking weaving through a line-up of folding chairs for 94 and back, or taking care and advancing the basketball through aggressive defensive stances and hostile traffic? Under intensified game conditions both are adequate-plus, sufficiently-equipped, but neither are exceptional ballhandlers. In other words, when playing under duress, the next turnover of both can be anticipated with some confidence. Even.

Shucks, I'm behind the times; meant to say orange traffic cones.

If you're talking about dribbling through a double, then I think Turner is the only guy on the team w/ a good enough handle to truly do that. Turner's got the type of handle where you can just give him the ball against a full court press and let him dribble through it, I don't think Iguodala or Jrue are really capable of that.

Between the two, I trust Jrue more w/ the dribble. In a one-on-one situation with a tough defender on him, Jrue uses his dribble better to get by the guy, but Iguodala takes better care of the ball. At least that's where I think they're at right now in their careers.

I don't really care about the Jrue vs. Iguodala debate. They're both capable of being the best player on the floor on any given night, I don't care if they take turns. Eventually, my hope is that there's no contest and Jrue turns out to be the better player.

I don't really care about the Jrue vs. Iguodala debate.

I'm in agreement with you on this. What does it matter who is the better player? Last time I checked, there are five guys on the floor. For the Sixers to win consistently, both of them have to play well.

Good points on handlers.

I think Doug goosed Jrue's performance by Pistol Pete story-telling (inference of Jrue's quotes). Jrue's an excitable sort, likes limelight and imagery of greatness. Responded well last night. Nice 3 pt. shooter when he has time & room; is growing into the dagger moment. Looked to see others too - positive turnabout.

Jrue's threes are strange. If he catches-and-shoots w/out ample room, it doesn't drop almost without fail. If he catches-and-shoots with daylight, it's money. And off the dribble, if he gets his man on his heels and dribbles right into it, it's money. I swear 90% of the time you could pause before he lets the shot go and I could tell you if it's going in or not.

It was the same way with Webber on his 15-footers back in the day.

jkay reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 12:30

Jrue keeps the ball lower, probably helped by his size, and is able to navigate better. Iguodala has a high dribble, and tends to get stripped more often in the lane. Also guilty of palming the ball occasionally. So nod probably goes to the former.

The reason for my question is this, IMO now that Jrue is a better player than Iguodala, and possibly Evan soon, are there going to be more Iguodala trade rumors as the deadline gets closer? And to a further extent, will that effect Iguodala being here for the rest of his contract.

I don't see how one thing has anything to do with the other. Kobe is probably no longer the best player on the Lakers, in fact he might be #3. Does that mean he doesn't help them win anymore? Does that mean he should be traded? If anything, Kobe falling back on his own team is a bigger issue than Iguodala, because Iguodala has never been a guy to take too many shots or put any kind of claim on the spotlight. Even when he was unquestionably the best player on the team, he played a team game with a low usage percentage.

But the difference between the two is the players that are better than Kobe are bigs in Bynum and Gasol. The players that are better than Iguodala are perimeter players that do lots of the same things as Iguodala for far less money. Not to mention Kobe's championships versus that at Iguodala's best he has never lead the Sixers to a +.500 record.

Kobe never led the Lakers to a +.500 record w/out either Shaq or Gasol.

Is Iguodala helping you win? Yes. Are there enough minutes for Jrue, Turner and Iguodala to all play? Yes. So why do they need to trade him?

And it's debatable whether Jrue or Iguodala is better. It's nowhere near debatable whether Turner is better than Iguodala. It's not even close. Turner has a long way to go before he's even an average player.

Stan reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 17:11

They won 47 in 05'

They averaged 40.33 wins in the three years when they had Kobe and no dominant big man. Pretty much the same thing Iguodala's been able to do here, discounting the EFJ year, since Cheeks left.

Ugh, should say since Iverson left.

So what is the sillier argument, Iguodala vs Jrue or Iguodala vs Kobe?

Everything about this argument is silly. Saying Kobe's rings matter at all beyond he was a big part of some really talented teams in years past is silly when you're talking about his value now. Saying Iguodala's never led the Sixers to a +.500 record without mentioning his supporting case is silly. Saying Iguodala should be traded because you think Jrue is better than him is the silliest of all. None of it has anything to do with anything.

If you're saying they should trade Iguodala now because Jrue and Turner can cover in the areas that he excels in, and you think they could get something of value to help in an area they're weak in, then just say that. I don't agree, but at least that's a coherent thought.

Well Kobe right now is still averaging 25,6,6 on a team that is 4-3 in a tougher conference. His value is still pretty high to me.

IMO i really think some people on this blog really over value Iguodala. Especially you Brian!!

IMO i really think some people on this blog really over value Iguodala. Especially you Brian!!

You could also just come right out and say that instead of posting these nonsensical, passive-aggressive questions designed to somehow trip me up and get me to say Iguodala isn't valuable.

I will get you to agree with me about Iguodala if its the last think I do. LOL

IMO i really think some people on this blog really over value Iguodala. Especially you Brian!!

I'm guessing then that you didn't agree with the panel of 90 experts at ESPN who ranked Iguodala as the #34 player in the NBA this summer (and Jrue about 50 spots lower). Maybe they overvalued him too (or possibly some people on the blog might undervalue him?).

My favorite thing about Jrue's game last night, he took 15 shots, only 2 of them were long twos (and one of those he thought was a three, but he had a toenail on the line). Threes and shots in the lane. More of that.

South Broad on Jan 5 at 11:06

So, coming off a long-time-seen west coast road trip, and Jrue getting hot for a five minute stretch, we've reduced ourselves to a debate over whether Jrue or Iguodala is the better player?

OK .... yawwwwnnnnnnn

What's next? Whether Spencer Hawes is better than Dwight Howard due to his recent surprising play?

The argument is silly, but not as silly as comparing it to Spencer vs. Dwight.

Is Spencer Hawes for real? Last year he played like this on offense may 2 or 3 times. He was out rebounded my Carl Landry a few times, but in the 4th quarter he had a pretty decent defensive game.

He was 4/6 on long twos last night. 12/14 from 16-23' over his last three games. That can't last, but I'll take it while he's hot. The key is going to be to get him to stop taking so many of them when he starts shooting them at a normal clip. Defensively, he's definitely challenging more shots. His rebounding was down last night.

No argument here, it's just a consideration of personnel abilities regarding ballhandling, an important aspect of play. Statman, relax, your man Iggy will be on the list of the teacher's door no matter how many words are posted here, for or against.

This is a problem: Thad is 14/17 (82.4%) at the rim, 5/19 (26%) from 16-23 feet. Needs to stop settling for those jumpers and drive.

less of a problem and more of an indicator right?

It's a problem if they don't do something about it.

Stan reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 11:47

I think teams know who to play him now. I'm a little worried.

I don't think that's it. Teams knew how to play him last year as well, it didn't matter unless they had a guy like Joel Anthony who was super-long and super quick. This year he's settling for those jumpers against guys like Jason Smith and Kaman. He can still blow right by guys like that, no matter how they're playing him. He's settling because he wants to prove he can hit the jumper, probably because he worked on it all summer and Collins told him it was important.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 11:45

I noticed another problem with him that is probably old news by now - he has no right handed dribble whatsoever. Someone was forcing him baseline last night when he was on the left side of the court and he merely had to pick up his dribble and pass it. Like he knew it was going to be a possible turnover if he tried to handle it with his right hand.

Last year, he used a spin to the right to combat when guys severely overplayed his left. He also blew a wide-open layup last night by going under the hoop to get to his left (I think that's what he was doing).

He's as left side dominant as they come. Willis Reed may have had a weaker right hand. Or Darrall Imhoff.

These Jrue/Iguodala comparisons are annoying. They both play different positions. One guy is a 28 year veteran SF the other is a 21 year old PG.

Da Jruth on Jan 5 at 11:38

Is this Evan Turner's Phoenix and Golden State games from last year? Or will the soph escape the turnstiles? Roun' and roun' he goes, where he settles nobody knows ... Doug's scolding hot breath mustn't smelt too pleasant with the Gumbo aroma. Stern exhale the kid walked into.

bebopdeluxe reply to Da Jruth on Jan 5 at 11:45


this was truly a pleasure to read.

One of the weirdest comments I have ever read on this site. I want to understand the gumbo reference but just can't.

jkay reply to T McL on Jan 5 at 12:38

DC always yelling at the Kid from the bench, New Orleans Cuisine ...
I guess?

My favorite play of the game was when Iguodala intercepted the alley opp pass.

Iguodala's follow dunk at the 1:44 mark here

Quick comments (in the middle of an all-day meeting):

- Great writeup, Brian. There were some moments (like the play where the ball got passed three times without any dribbling, resulting in a lay-up) that were exhilarating to watch.
- Favorite moment of the game was when the ball bounced off Jason Smith's head to Hawes, who threw in a floater (not an easy shot, by the way). For some reason, that's exactly how I think of Jason Smith (ball bouncing off his head).
- I can understand why Lou was upset about not playing much in the 4th, but you really can't argue with the results. Iguodala and Turner, if you looked closely, were switching if needed onto Gordon, limiting the effectiveness of any picking by Turner's man. And Gordon went 1-6 in the 4th, the only made basket being the crazy banked floater. Iguodala had him so intimidated that he even missed the garbage-time lay-up at the end. Back in 07-09, I remember when the Sixers did something similar with Iguodala and Carney (switching all picks) and bothered teams with it.
- Whatever the thinking about strength of schedule, ending a 5-game road trip 3-2 with a scoring margin of almost 10 is impressive.

Rich reply to Statman on Jan 5 at 15:29

I'm watching the game now, and can't believe how much I dislike Jason Smith. He's flailing his arms up and down on the bench after every positive play the Hornets make. The fact that he's played pretty well is really bothering me, because he really isn't very good. Alligator Arms Smith.

Kings fire Westphal

Westphal was a bad coach, but inmates running the asylum is never a good thing.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 22:00

I thought Keith Smart was okay in GSW, certainly better than that nut. I don't think they're rolling over for Cousins.

Philly in NYC on Jan 5 at 14:50

Looking for some help in understanding if this is at all possible...Let's say the Sixers really develop this year and Dwight Howard decides to opt out and is interested in signing with us if we can clear enough cap space....is the following possible? (I'm hoping Brian or one of the other guys familiar with the CBA can answer)

I think that using the amnesty on Brand would get us close but not quite close enough to clear the space that we would need for Howard. So here's an idea to clear the space for Howard....and it includes a chance to retain Brand at a greatly reduced cap figure....

  1. Use the trade exception that we just got for Speights in a trade of Brand to Washington for Rashard Lewis who has a higher cap figure.

  2. Use the amnesty on Rashard Lewis which may clear enough cap space to fit Howard (maybe someone can put numbers to this to see if it would get us close).

  3. Let's say that the Brand-Lewis trade has a wink-wink agreement where Washington also uses their amnesty on Brand. I could be wrong, but I think there may be a loophole in the CBA that could then allow each team to put in an amnesty FA bid for the player that they traded away as the player was amnestied by another team (not sure if the restriction on reacquiring a player would apply here...could someone check?). I believe we can only put in an amnesty FA bid if we are still under the cap but if we are somehow under the cap after signing Howard, could the Sixers put in a mid-level exception bid on Brand and then get him back at that reduced cap number? Not sure this works.

  4. Now the topper....resign Hawes using Larry Bird rights which would likely put us into luxury cap range but would put us into a title contention position (assuming Hawes continues to develop and can play the 4 with Howard at the 5....which would have Brand coming off the bench for the last year of his deal.

We would have a really exciting club with an awesome 4/5 rotation of Howard, Hawes, Brand, Thad, Vucevic to go along with the rotation that we'll have at the other positions with Jrue, ET, Iggy, Lou.

I know there's a lot here and probably has some snags....but is any of it possible? Would the Speights trade exception along with Brand get us close enough to trade for Lewis? Would amnestying Lewis get us under the cap enough to add Howard? Could we then put an amnesty FA bid on Brand if he's amnestied by Washington and get him at the reduced cap figure? Would we still be able to resign Hawes using Bird rights? With Hawes ability to play outside the middle at the offensive end could allow him to play alongside Howard and give us a tough twin-tower combo. Could Howard pass this up?

I don't think you can trade for a player and use the amnesty clause on him. Even if you could, if we amnesty Lewis we would still have the same cap number.

I didn't read past #1. You can only amnesty your own player, you can't amnesty a guy you traded for. And by simply amnestying Brand, they'll have enough cap room to sign Howard.

Philly in NYC reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 15:00

Yeah, I think I remember reading that rule. Bummer as it would have been a fun way to get Brand for that final year at the reduced cap figure, but oh well.

Question: what do you think of Hawes playing the 4 along side Howard? I know that Hawes could have some defensive matchup problems but having Thad for those matchups would give the Sixers some flexibility. What do you think?

I wish Spencer Hawes nothing but the best in his future endeavors somewhere other than Philadelphia.

Philly in NYC reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 15:08

Still not feeling better about his game, huh? I'm guessing it's the long-two's?

Scott reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 15:08

Not even going to give him some time to prove himself this season? Considering the start he has had, I think he has at least earned some additional time to prove himself before we completely right him off again.

I hope Hawes continues this level of play throughout the season, helps the Sixers win a ton of regular season games and maybe even a round in the playoffs, then I hope he goes somewhere else. I love how he's playing right now, he's been very efficient, but he's not the type of center that's going to unlock the potential of this roster and he's not the type of center I want my team investing a decent chunk of money in.

Philly in NYC reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 15:25

just curious....could you give a half-dozen examples of better fits for the sixers? i'm guessing with your love for biyombo that you're thinking we don't need much offensive game from our center but rather need a strong shotblocker & rebounder at the 5?

personally, if hawes continues to develop and can average 15 point, 12 boards, 2 blocks for the season....along with his passing game and efficiency.....i'd be happy with him as our center. especially considering that he's young and can continue to improve. hopefully that improvement includes more aggressiveness but there have been some positive early season aggressive moments for him so maybe that is possible.

I'll give you a list of 10 guys I'd rather have, but they aren't the only 10:

D. Jordan
Love (even out of position at the five)
Horford (even out of position at the 5)

Actually, that list is just guys that I'd really like to have. If we're talking about guys I'd just rather have than Hawes, I'm not as stringent:

J. McGee
M. Gasol

I'm leaving anyone over like 27 or 28 off the list just because I don't think getting an older guy is a good idea, but you get the picture.

Forgot Nick Collison, add him to the second list as well.

Stan reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 16:56

No David Lee? No Andrea Bargnani? No Brook Lopez? No DeMarcus Cousins? No Andray Blatche?

Court_visioN reply to Stan on Jan 5 at 19:01

haha, i can't tell if this was sarcastic, but all the players you listed there are terrible.

I wouldn't mind David Lee. The rest are trash.

Tom Moore on Jan 5 at 15:12

Sixers Thursday video: Holiday, Hawes and Collins on Friday night's home opener and having 18 of the next 22 games at the Wells Fargo Center:


Woj: Warriors are willing to rent Dwight Howard, and hopefully convince him to sign long term. Risky move, but I'd probably do it.

Stan reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 16:07

I can't take it seriously

"The Warriors are willing to part with either of their two guards – Curry or Monta Ellis"

It seriously wouldn't shock me if Otis Smith preferred Ellis.

San Francisco didn't take to Wilt; team didn't draw at the Cow Palace during his 2 1/2 seasons there: '62-'63, '63-'64, '64-'65 (gone at midseason). '63-'64 was a 1st place squad and Warriors were 7th of 9 in attendance; other 2 seasons, dead last. One of the reasons Mieuli was willing to trade him back to Philly. But of course it was a different time, world has changed. Would Dwight thrive in liberal SF? Not sure.

They do have great fans. He might be swayed. Of course, I think he could probably be swayed to stay anywhere if the team that owned his bird rights absolutely refused to do a sign-and-trade, and made him take $30M-$40M less to change teams.

Money is like that. Even Superman is susceptible.

Stan reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 16:46

C- Howard
PF- Lee
SF- Hedo
SG- Thompson
PG- Ellis

This lineup is worse than what Dwight has in Orlando. He would be a bigger jackass than Lebron if he resigns with Golden State.

Anyway, if all it takes to bring in Howard is Curry and the absorption of Hedo's contract, I think the Sixers should definitely be involved in these trade talks.

Stan reply to Stan on Jan 5 at 16:51

Would we be able to trade Thad by the deadline if we wanted to?

Yes, I believe so. There's no such thing as BYC anymore.

After 5 games now, we really have to wonder about Jodie. I think the team is so much better if he can give them a solid 20 minutes a game, but with the way he is playing, he in no way deserves them. It is interesting that he seems to have a pretty long leash compared to that of Turner last year. I hope he can break out of it.

That being said, I don't understand why he was guarding Jordan for so long, and that's on Collins. My gut is that you put Jrue on Gordon to start and leave AI9 on Aminu, with Meeks on Jack. He really seemed to be a passable defender, but Gordon beat him up last night. Last year I was impressed with Jodie's lateral quickness, which was much better than I thought. That was due to him having solid defensive fundamentals.

A nice shooting night for Turner, and you can see that his shot is slowly coming along. He'll still have some bad nights shooting for sure, but as long as he keeps giving 5 boards, three assists, and good defense, he can have his growing pains and still be able to contribute.

Great game by Hawes. His shooting touch has been unreal this year, and he's doing a pretty good job on the defensive glass. Nothing bad to say about what he's done so far. When he shoots like this, it really does draw a big man out too.

Finally, if the Sixers have found a formula to close games, it's not just "Iso Jrue." Notice on all of those plays (Especially a nice sort of 1-4 Utah Jazz action they ran twice), Jrue gave the ball up after initiating. They are running Jrue off screens and then telling him to make a play. On the Iguodala put-back dunk, they ran that same play twice and on the second one, Jrue got Hawes a 14 foot jumper that's frankly a good look in the rhythm of the offense when Hawes is shooting this way. This style is so much better than just telling the team to clear out for Jrue. Well, I'd like to see a screen every once in awhile, but that's for another day.

They were running that offense pretty much the whole night. Jrue would bring it up, kick it to the wing, then cut to get it back w/ a big in the neighborhood and make a play from there. Good movement off the ball and really a much better option than the Spence hand-off offense, imo.

"It is interesting that he seems to have a pretty long leash compared to that of Turner last year."

Interesting indeed.

It's a conspiracy! Doug hates Evan because he's anti-speech-impediment! Someone call the ACLU, immediately.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be factual that Doug Collins treats players unequally. I think most coaches do (Larry Brown certainly did). Why do you always react like it's completely crazy to think that Turner gets treated harsher than others? LouWill plays zero D, but Doug never gets in his face. Turner makes a minor mistake on D and he'll get screamed at. If Turner throws up a completely ill-advised runner from 20 feet like Meeks did yesterday, he gets benched immediately. But when Meeks did it, he got to play the entire 3rd quarter. Turner lost his starting 2-guard position after 1 practice. Meeks still had it after 4 games of shooting about 30%.

It just cracks me up how much it bothers you, and how you completely blow it out of proportion. I sat about 2 feet away from Collins during what was probably Turner's worst games of the season last year in Chicago, he didn't yell at him at all, in fact he kept patting him on the back and telling him to keep his head up. Even if he does yell at Turner, who cares? Why does it bother you so much? Are you worried about his psyche? Do you think he's just picking on him for no reason?

Well if it's just cuz it cracks you up then that's fine haha. The reason it bothers me is I have this terrible vision of Collins eventually going to Rod Thorn and saying "get ET off my team." Hopefully I'm just paranoid. As for picking on him, I do think he picks on him, whether it's for a reason, I can't say I know.

Rich reply to stoned81 on Jan 6 at 0:19

I still don't think the starting makes any difference at all. Turner played 31 minutes and finished last night, which is what most of us hope to see. The fact that he earned them was good as well. They finished with JTI last night. The debate over whether who starts is overrated.

What will be interesting is how Collins juggles Meeks' minutes if he continues to play this poorly. Jodie being fazed out would turn them from a team with a very good eight/Voose man rotation to a team that really only knows what type of play you are getting from seven guys. If Meeks keeps this up, Collins' hand will be forced.

Still have no idea why he was on Gordon in the first place. The fact that he kept throwing Jodie at Gordon is mystifying.

I see your point about starting but I wanted Meeks to be cut last year, so I don't even want to see him on the roster, let alone the starting lineup. It's as much anti-Meeks as it is pro-Turner for me in wishing for a lineup change.

Did we get a trade exemption for the Speights trade?

No doubt, we get Speights' & Xavier Henry's TE.

$2.7 TPE for Speights. Which isn't all that useful, you can't combine them, or add them on to cap space. You can basically use it to acquire a player who's making $2.7M or less without giving salary back.

Tom Moore on Jan 5 at 17:44

Story (with Holiday, Hawes, Collins video interviews): Sixers looking forward to being at home:


Johnnylaptop on Jan 5 at 18:54

Starters, Jrue, Evan,Iggy, Thad, Dwight Howard. Bench, Lou, Jodie, Spence, Voose, plus 5. My hearts racing. We could run, fast break. half court. Dwight and his agent would be stupid not to at least talk to the Sixer's,and see what we have in mind. Dwight Howard could do alot worse. I think all the jump shots Thad is taking is Collins doing. Collins gave Thad instructions on what to work on the past summer, his jump shot. Now he is telling Thad to let it go and eventually the shot's will fall. It won't be easy, it will suck some night's, but in the end Thad will have another way to score. We did just sign him for four more years.

Not enough shooting IMO.

Anyone else going to the game tomorrow night?? Wondering exactly what will be different about the "experience" besides new anthem and a renamed dance team...will try to post from there, maybe tweet a few pictures if anything is majorly different...

and iIf that Robert guy who wanted an Ayla Brown CD is still lurking somewhere, email me das411@gmail.com and we'll work something out...

Tk76 reply to das411 on Jan 5 at 21:23

I believe they are going to dim the lights to make the court more like a stage. Like how it is for NY and LA.

eddies' heady's reply to Tk76 on Jan 5 at 21:43

I sooo hope they do this.

5 games in the next 6 days. Crazy.

You say crazy, I say spectacular.

South Broad reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 22:24

The lady doesn't seem to think so.

grounds for divorce? this is why i stay single

76ers present schedule, relative "cake" - 4 straight at home (split by a day of rest), followed by a 2 hr tpke ride to knock heads with the Knickerbockers.

One faraway example of a tougher road: '61-'62 Syracuse Nationals between Christmas & Jan 2 - 7 games in 9 days in 5 cities; SYR, BOS, PHI, SYR, SYR, CIN, CHI; went 3-4. Season schedules then were more compressed, travel - rail, bus & air - less cushy. (Players' union which began in '54 wasn't recognized by owners until '64.)

Tomorrow night the coltish Sixers will be ONLY team of 30 that's played just 5. MIA, LAL, SAC & DAL will have played 8. Phila can't complain.

That "cake" schedule features a back-to-back then a day off, then a back-to-back-to-back then a day off, then a back-to-back. They're probably going to lose a game to a team they should beat, and it might not have anything to do w/ how good they are. 7 games in 9 days is a lot.

That being said, everyone has a crazy schedule, and the Sixers are more equipped to handle it than most (assuming Doug can find a way to get more than 8 guys into the rotation in the face of all these back-to-backs). I feel like 7-0 is within reach. :)

Man, Westphal is doing such a crappy job in Sacto, they're getting killed by the hapless Bucks tonight....what? Westphal isn't there? Cousins has 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 11 minutes? I don't believe it for a second, it was all the coach's fault.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 0:22

I don't think anyone ever said that. Seems to be Evans's fault for letting Jennings go off. However, they're actually ahead with 44 seconds to go, and Cousins had 19 and 15 in just 27 minutes, 2 steals and a block on 18 shots before fouling out. He now averages 10 boards a night and 1.6 blocks in 26 minutes a night. His offense is a work in progress, but he does get to the line 6 times a night and makes 77% of his free-throws. And his turnovers are down a lot from his rookie year. All in all, still a very promising young player, and one of the big reasons Sacto is in this game in spite of shooting 40% percent to the Bucks' 53%. He's why they have, currently, a 53-31 rebounding advantage. Not his fault his teammates can't make a three tonight.

His turnovers aren't down a lot, his fouls are up (he's now averaging 10 TO+PF/36 minutes), and even after his miracle game in the blowout loss the other night, he's still shooting 38% from the floor. The rebounding is impressive, though his defensive rebounding has actually dropped off and I'd love to see how many offensive rebounds come from rebounding his own point-blank misses.

The Bucks are just horrible, btw. How do you blow that lead to that team. Funniest thing I saw tonight was Keith Smart putting Jimmer Fredette on the floor for not one, but two key defensive possessions in the final seconds.

Dwight reply to Brian on Jan 6 at 2:55

Cousins is a good player for a 2nd year player. There's no denying that. When you look at Kevin Durant's usage rates and efficiency in his early years, you would also find he was one of the worst in the league. You have to give these players time to develop. Cousins is clearly a tremendous talent who will take time to develop. I don't get all of this criticism early on in his career.

Yeah I expect a few "low tide" games along the trail due to adjusted schedule. Not this early though. They're young legs, they're home for 5 of 6, have a strong bench jockey to help 'em navigate. Physical and mental fatigue will factor in results eventually. Right now they should show "full steam ahead."

Eh, do you think Brand can handle 100 minutes in 3 nights? If he can't that messes w/ the rotation big time up front, and if the Voose is still nursing his lumbar, they don't exactly have many able bodies to eat up the minutes.

A cogent point. Brand can handle 100 in 3 but he'll be runnin' and jumpin' like Red Foxx later on; production down as is. Doug's gonna have to pull a rabbit out of his hat regarding big men, i.e., get the FO to acquire one! Battie? What's that about?

Joel Anthony, chris Bosh, Mario Chalmers, James Jones, Shane Battier.
How do you manage to lose to that lineup?

Step One: Give Jeff Teague and Marvin Williams a combined 22 shots (3/22) and give Al Horford 7 (5/7). In a triple overtime game, their best player got 7 shots. That's hilarious.

Anthony, sweat. Bosh, sweet. Chalmers, swift. Jones, swish. Battier, swell.

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