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Sixers Dominate Again

Sixers wake up 1st in defensive efficiency and 1st in offensive efficiency. WOW!!! I know it won't last, but it feels good these days to be a Sixers fan.

Dwight on Jan 8 at 7:13

Great write up. You summarized the game well. I really had no idea up until this game how dominant thad young can be on defense. He was pressuring the ball all night, had some huge blocks, and big rebounds.

The Greek on Jan 8 at 9:55

Getting the Voose at 16 might be a tremendous steal!

That kid can play, have faith in Rod Thorn and DC folks, they know more then we do.

If I remember correctly it was Stefanski who had been targeting Vucevic for over a year.

TMoore might be able to get Collins to talk about what he said during that timeout...ET gave the new Inquirer guy a few hints:

"I don't know if I can say that; we spoke basketball," is how Evan Turner described what Collins said to the players huddled around him. "But there was a lot of 'bleep, bleep, bleep.' 'Shut the front door,' and a whole lot of, 'What the fudge?' "


North of border mutts lose by 35; furious longtime fan Jack London cancels cable subscription, declares team a pale imitation of White Fang.

31.8% FG, 8.3% 3-FG, 58.3% FT - Raptors time-travel to Ice Age, set basketball back thousands of years.

Toronto snowed under by Collins' 3Q time-out avalanche.

Sixers happen upon another stray; enjoying SPCA schedule to date.

Spencer subtly begins his descent.

Johnnylaptop reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 8 at 13:19

Reality check, check.

I am liking what I see in Vucevic. I am not liking that Turner is usually the last guy off the bench.

I agree with your write-up Brian except I don't get what you're saying about Turner being "inefficient." He was 4 for 8, that's 50%. He's shooting 47% on the season. What is "efficient"?

A general rule of thumb for efficiency is more than a point per possession. So point total should be more than shot attempts plus free throws divided by two. Last night, Turner scored 9 points on 8 shots and 2 free throws, so 9 possessions. That's not good. He needs to either start shooting over 50% or start getting to the line or start hitting threes.

Technically, the formula for free throws is x 0.44 to account for and-one FTs, but it's easier to just divide by two in your head. By the formula, he had 9 points on 8.88 possessions, which puts his TS% over 50, but not by enough.

Just as an example, Iguodala was almost as efficient as Turner last night, and he was 3/12 from the floor, but he mixed in a three and six FTs.

I don't see ET ever being much of a three point shooter. I do think he will get closer to fifty percent on his twos and draw more fouls as he matures.

Im just hoping that Turner realizes that he isn't a three point shooter and learns to perfect his midrange jumper. It seemed to become a crutch for Iguodala when he was moved to the two guard position a couple seasons ago.

If it were a counted statistic I think Turner would lead the team in opposing shooting fouls that weren't called. That's not a complaint against the establishment, it's just the way the league goes. Eventually a portion of those are going to start getting called so it's something to keep in mind, especially if he continues to drive and not settle for mostly contested mid-range jumpers.

Also, I don't know if it's him takng his ADIDAS sponsorship or offseason abroad following women's soccer too seriously, but Jrue has got to be leading the league in kicked balls.

His only three attempt was also a halfcourt heave from 40+ feet, so he was 4/7 on shots that should be counted. It's only one shot, but still.

They all count. Iguodala and Lou have taken more of those crazy shots at the end of quarters than anyone.

3-pointers are not Turner's game. As for foul shots, he never gets calls. His game is pull-ups and floaters. If he shoots 47% on those, that's great. I think you are asking too much if you expect him to shoot over 50%, hardly anyone besides LeBron and power forwards do that.

Shooting 47% on those is fine, if he's getting to the line and/or hitting threes as well. If he never gets to the line or hits threes, and shoots 47% on his two-point attempts, he's really not a good option on the offensive end at all.

Well it means he's not as good an offensive option as LeBron, but he's certainly a better option than Jodie Meeks. All that matters is whether he should be used more on this current Sixers team, not whether he'd be an offensive key on the Miami Heat.

I also just disagree with the premise that a 47% shooter is not an offensive option if he's not a three-point shooter. And I also disagree with the premise that Iguodala shooting 3 for 12 is almost as efficient as Turner shooting 4 for 8 because Iggy got hacked a lot and launched a few from deep. All that means is Iggy took a lot more attempts, missed a lot more shots, and got fouled on some of them.

It's simple math. You're just choosing not to believe it, or you can't grasp it. Teams need to do better than scoring 1 point per possession. If a player shoots 47%, doesn't get to the line, and doesn't make thees, he's not scoring 1 point per possession. There are good players who don't shoot threes, they either shoot well above 50%, or they get to the line a great deal, or both.

Jrue vs. Turner illustrates this pretty well.

Turner is shooting 46% from the floor, Jrue is shooting 45%, neither of them gets to the line a whole lot, but Jrue has hit 11 threes to Turner's zero.

Jrue is scoring about 1.11 points/possession used. Turner is scoring 1.0, on the season.

Lou is shooting 43.7% on the season, but he gets to the line and hits threes, so he's scoring 1.14 points/possession used.

Iguodala is shooting 41%, but he's scoring 1.12 points per possession used.

This doesn't take turnovers into account, but when we're just talking about who should get the shots, Turner is pretty low on the list, but he's greatly improved over last season.

MCT reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 17:03

I would argue that Turner's efficiency would increase if he gets more shots, just based on his history. I don't think that's the best thing for this team right now though so I am ok with slow progress from him.

I think if Turner gets more opportunities (starting instead of Meeks, and more minutes at the expense of Meeks), you'll see him get more visits to the line. Like I said below it's a catch-22, if he doesn't deserve more opportunities because he doesn't get to the line enough, he'll never get the respect from the refs to become "efficient" enough to warrant more opportunities.

Give him a chance to start and give him 35 minutes, and give him 20 games of it. Even if he struggles a bit, I can't see how he could do any worse than Meeks has in 27 out of 28 quarters.

Dwight reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 18:06

Turner is obviously going to get to the line. He attacks the rim and his game is inside.

Tray reply to stoned81 on Jan 8 at 16:17

Then he's a pretty lousy offensive weapon. If he can't get to the line, and he can't make threes, then unless he gets really, really good at making the shots he takes inside the arc, the most he can ever be is a fourth option. That's just the way it is; you can't say, "oh, but he doesn't get calls and he doesn't make threes so can't he get credit for being good at what he's good at?" No, he can't really, because the things he can't do are things you need to do, if you don't shoot 50% from the field, to be a good offensive player.

I always get worried when I agree with you.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 20:32

My views are generally pretty sensible; I don't know that we've ever really disagreed about much, aside from my wishing we had tanked a couple of the past seasons.

He'll get calls eventually, but for now he's more in the drive-and-dish and pull-up mode. That's just playing his role. I also disagree with the idea that he has to become a great 3-point shooter to become an offensive option. There are a bunch of offensive stars in this league that don't shoot well from 3.

Oh and also, you've presented a total catch-22. You're saying because he doesn't get calls, he's not an offensive option. But the only way he'll get the respect from the refs is if he gets more opportunities. Since by your argument, he doesn't deserve more opportunities because he doesn't get to the line enough, you've set him up for a catch-22 where he can't win.

Tray reply to stoned81 on Jan 8 at 20:34

No I didn't say that. Yeah, if we were contending for a championship I wouldn't want Turner to waste too many possessions, but this team, in spite of how well it's played so far, is still at a point where it can afford to do things that might be suboptimal in terms of winning games at this moment, but will help develop our players. Turner may become a player who gets to the line more, and of course he should get all the chances he can to become a player who does so.

"Suboptimal in terms of winning games"... you're well on your way to lawyerdom. For clarity, I suggest the term of the street: "stupid."

Tray reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 8 at 21:48

That would be the wrong term, because I don't at all think it would be stupid to let Turner take a lot of shots, even if it might cost us some games.

Pardon me, I take that back. Correction: You're well on your way to failing the bar exam. (Just kidding.)

How can an individual's development supercede a team's? If a Turner shooting increase costs Sixers games, that would be the situation in hand. His job is to grow professionally within the "confines" of team success, whether he likes his individual pace or not.

Who is asking for an individual to supersede the team? I'm not asking for Turner to replace Dwayne Wade in the starting lineup. I'm asking him to replace Jodie Meeks in the starting lineup. Jodie is, without question, the worst starter in the NBA, and, arguably, one of the worst players in the NBA. I wouldn't suggest starting Turner and giving him more opportunities at the expense of Holiday. I'm talking about at the expense of Meeks. That is good for the team.

Doug's trying to shrink Turner's head some, but I don't think his 'limit minutes' method'll work. Kid thinks he's a superstar already. I'd advise him to average more than 9.9, 5.9 & 2.6 in 26.4 before he distributes that business card. A little improvement shown. Hired shooting instructor Herb Magee is grieving Evan's .688 FT accuracy, a decline from last season. And the revised J isn't anything to write home about. When Meeks' shot drops, he's a better fit with the other 4 starters - for the time being at least.

Rich reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 9 at 0:03

Who cares that he thinks he's a good player? He seems to fit in really well with the rest of the team and the concept. You know, the funny thing about those averages is that they come out to might just come around to 13, 8, and 4 if he plays the 30 minutes he's supposed to every night.

As for his jumper, you do realize that he's probably going to build on it a little, right? Judging that (and the free throws, was that a joke?) on the first little part of the first season he changed it is a little soon. Did you expect him to start dropping threes off screens? It's a pretty hard thing to completely change the one thing you have done for around 10 years and completely change the mechanics of how you do it. The fact that his jumper looks this much better is very impressive, actually.

I do, for cryin' out loud. I disagree that he fits in really well; seems to me he thinks he deserves bright lights, center stage without a polished act. A coach's burr.

Why is he "supposed to" play 30 mpg? Minutes and places in rotation are usually earned.

Gonna build on jumper a little? Wouldn't bet my last dollar on it. Shooting is not all technique, natural physics has something to do with it too. I could drive a Chevy Volt perfectly but it won't win any races.

He's taken 15 FT's so far this year, I don't think that's enough to make a stupid comment yet.

He's taken 16, not 15. And missed 5. .688. Enough to cite, though not conclude. Get your facts straight - innacuracy is what's stupid.

Opinions are opinions. Mine, at present, of Turner is, he's high maintenance for medium return. I surmise yours is different - fine & dandy.

"Thinks himself a superstar" is a huge overstatement. He's no Scottt Hopson in this regard. Meeks as among the worst players in the league is also incredibly hyperbolic.

Turner is confident. Meeks is one-dimensional. The starting five need that one dimension and the bench needs Turner's other two. This season is all about the W's for dWight and probably at the expense of PT that ET could use to refine his game (still not a complete package, tries to play like one).

Honestly I could care less who starts, it's not like Collins hasn't afforded him plenty of minutes. He doesn't let him play through adversity, but he also hasn't shown the ability to overcome it. What bothers me is his still terrible body language. He throws his arms up on every screen when there is clearly no pass to be made (you didn't wiggle yourself free with that lazy "just hand it to me" trot) and on the fast break when, sure, you're ahead of most the D and have an angle on the basket, but your teammate would have to make an impossible pass to you! He also dribbles himself into traps (defender + boundary line) far too often.

You're right, got carried away a little. It's an overstatement, though not huge ... he thinks he's a star.

"Meeks among the worst players in the league" - I didn't say it, talk to stoned81 on that. Or Doug Collins; no doubt he'd present you with some countering perspectives.

You do realize Turner has played more minutes than Meeks, right? And if you insist on lobbying for Meeks to be cut, or something, I assume you think the team should go with a 7-man rotation, because they don't have a soul on their roster who can join the rotation on the perimeter.

MCT reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 0:25

Turner should get closer to 30 and Meeks should get closer to 15-18, right now they're at 26 and 23 respectively. Jodie has a longer leash from Doug than he deserves.

Yes, Turner is getting more minutes than Meeks, but Meeks is still getting too many, and Turner is still getting too few, in my opinion. Ideally yes I'd like to see Meeks cut, but that won't happen this season obviously, so I could live with 10 minutes a game (typical for a three-point specialist) for him. I think Vucevic belongs in the rotation, so that's 8 right there, and we haven't seen what Brackins can do yet (he was a first-round pick for some reason, surely he's at least worth seeing on the court a bit before we decide he can't play?). Very few teams have more than 8 players who have truly proven they belong on an NBA court.

With his injury...I'm wondering when the FO wakes-up to the reality that we need another big! With Hawes out/potentially so, Brand/Battie in decline & Lavoy apparently just a prop at this point...there should be some concern! Or does it only become a one if/when we start losing games?

South Broad reply to khouse on Jan 8 at 14:28

Guess it becomes one after Adam Aron realizes his dream of orchestrating a quasi-broadway production, whenever that might be.

not sure if this was mentioned before, but a funny article from the New York Times on the 76ers.


Interesting article. Sixers truly are 4th-fiddle in town, that's why they need to create a reason to come to the arena besides basketball. That's what a downtown arena would do. Unfortunately we're stuck in the awful WFC.

Stan reply to stoned81 on Jan 8 at 18:27

Philly fans are the worst. There's no excuse in having worse attendance figures than the Nets, Jazz and Raptors. I don't understand why the Flyers get so much love from the local fans. Two Stanley cup appearances in in 27 years.

Demarcus Cousins, good first quarter, got dwight in early foul trouble (2 in the first 2 minutes) but couldn't make it 9 minutes without having to be taken out cause of poor conditioning

Yeah it's annoying. Philly is a blue-collar town. Blue-collar towns just tend to be into hockey rather than basketball. I remember growing up and being pretty much the only Sixer fan among all my friends, all the way through high school.

Ah yes - now we resort to the blue collar myth

The flyers are contenders year in and year out and still have broad street bully carry over, they not only won championships they had 'style

People need to stop looking for excuses as to why folks don't show up to spend money on a team with no shot at winning a title...

Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jan 8 at 21:47

Everybody's a contender in the NHL.

Early line for tomorrow's game is sixers -4.5, O/U 183.5

Hmmn, that's a tough call. This is the Sixers first test since opening night. IND is a good defensive team, so far. Below average on the offensive end, and they play at a pretty slow pace. If I had to bet, I'd take the Sixers at -4.5. Like that more than the over. And I'd never, ever bet an under.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 20:36

I expect us to win by a pretty decent margin. That team just isn't scoring right now. Eventually this ought to change but at the moment we're a vastly better team.

I mean I was never a huge fan of his announcing, but has Bill Walton sunk so low that he has to do Kings games?

Jim Grey also working on Kings broadcasts?

Interesting stat: I watched the game listening to Raptors announcers and they said Sixers lead the NBA in 4th quarter scoring (!) with 30 PPG.

If anyone can check/update that, I tried but I couldn't find a site with those figures.

That didn't include the Raptors game of course. Extremely encouraging, right?

We also lead the NBA in PPG differential (+15, over Miami at +11) but of course the easy schedule has a lot to do with that, and overall that doesn't mean much, at least to me.

Cousins has 16 and 9 on 8 shots, with 3 blocks, but 5 turnovers and one of the worst shots I've ever seen late in the game.

Where is John Wall headed?? Are his teammates just bad (I know they are)or is he part of the problem??
Turner has taken a lot of criticism for a slow career start but whatever Wall is doing does not look very impressive.

There's an article out there (from this past weekend, I saw an excerpt on the hoopshype.com rumors page) saying that the wizards are having concerns too - some of those concerns concern Walls b-ball IQ being too low?

I had this conversation a while back, I don't think the problem is necessarily limited to basketball IQ, I think his actual IQ isn't in triple digits. Don't think you can succeed at the point being a complete idiot. And he's definitely part of the problem.

Hmmm according to @SixersCEOAdam, the attendance Friday night was 19,500 for the opener and 14,500 for Toronto, with 6,245 $1 pretzels sold last night...should be very interesting to see if they can keep that up on a weeknight...

Funny watching Speights struggle in Memphis` system.

Sixers_fan92 on Jan 8 at 22:17

Speights with 8 points and 2 boards on 8 shots against LAL right now

Turner looks worlds better this year. He's actually helping our team win. As long as he continues to improve I'm a happy man.

Mo Speights is leading the Grizz in scoring against LA. Glad to see him do well.

Likewise. 17 & 7 in 28 minutes, pretty solid. Another great example of the Doug Collins "not in the" Hug Club permanent banishment.

YoungGun13 reply to stoned81 on Jan 9 at 0:09

How is 17 points on 19 possessions solid at all?

The guy essentially hasn't played NBA basketball in over 2 years. I think it's pretty darn impressive to shoot 44.4% in what effectively amounts to his first time on the floor since 2010.

It's not, at all. It's a guy using way too many possessions and not doing anything w/ those possessions, but people are obsessed with points scored to the point where they don't look at anything beyond that.

Dwight reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 9:07

Im guessing you werent a big AI fan then

Dwight reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 9:07

Im guessing you werent a big AI fan then

HW reply to Dwight on Jan 9 at 0:34

He did lead in scoring, but efficiency-wise, he used 19 possessions to score 17 points, so not very good. Also, his defense was...well, even worse than we remembered.

Tk76 reply to HW on Jan 9 at 0:52

Lets see how he does over a longer stretch. I used to think that Speights was the type that would only improve with regular minutes. Then I concluded he was a bum. But right now he has his chance to disprove the doubters. Much like Hawes...

And if Hawes is representative, it only takes 6 games to prove you're a stud in some people's eyes.

My comments on Evan Turner are this. He is a scorer first and foremost. He will never be a knock down three point shooter but with his handle nd mid-range jumpshot can become the go to scorere this team needs.The player that i think hold Turner back more than any is Lou. Turner should be in that role of the one on one scorer simply because he brings more options to the court.

Dwight reply to KellyDad on Jan 9 at 12:19

I see Turner more as a creator. He is crafty at moving around the court and finding an open shot for himself or drawing the defender in to find the open shot for someone else.

Lou is a pure scorer because he is great at knocking down 3 pointers, contested mid range shots, and he can get to the line better than most players in the league.

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