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Sixers Win Despite Sloppy Play

Agree 100% with the writeup tonight. Team is looking good, especially Vucevic, but my frustration with the crappy first 6 minutes of every game is starting to boil over, and the limiting of Turner's minutes for no reason has to be Doug Collins trying to drive me off a cliff.

One thing I would add is LouWill's D, never a strong suit, seemed especially terrible tonight. He kept leaving guys wide open and getting burned on drives, at least when I was watching closely. I also thought it was Lou's fault that the Pacers nearly got a lay-up with .3 to go in the 3rd, but Collins seemed to blame Jodie and was tearing into him as he returned to the bench (Jodie didn't even acknowledge him, which led Collins to give him the death stare. Very bizarre sequence).

Court_visioN reply to stoned81 on Jan 10 at 0:14

that was definitely meeks' fault. lost him on the curl. either way, the biggest issue is the fact that Meeks was on the floor instead of Turner for that posession. (I don't remember if the Pacers subbed on that play, maybe Doug couldn't make the substitution?)

Should be able to make a sub every time the ball a whistle blows (as it had with .3 to go). I guess that makes sense that Jodie lost his man, but Lou wasn't covering anyone, he was just watching. If Doug is going to scream about D, Lou should also hear the venom, but for some reason he's immune.

I don't want to panic but Elton brand is going to have to step up some

Tom Moore on Jan 10 at 0:25

Link to my Sixers video interviews:


MCT reply to Tom Moore on Jan 10 at 0:28

Tom, are they planning on trading Turner? I'm wondering why he is still getting hardly any minutes and when he is in the game, he is not a part of the offense unless he goes coast to coast after a rebound.

Forgot to mention Hawes looked a lot more like the Hawes of old than the new, improved Hawes tonight. Hope it was a blip. He was pitiful defending Hibbert.

marcus reply to Brian on Jan 10 at 0:52

I expected hawes to struggle against hibbert tonight for some reason hell I expect him to struggle against the top ten centers in the league as long as he can do well against the rest I guess I can live with it

mo speezy on Jan 10 at 0:52

Did I mishear, or after the Voose play you mentioned did Malik remark it looked like he got shot from the "Texas suppository building?" If so, I feel like that should be the comedic highlight of the game.

Yeah I heard that and dropped my jaw. Zumoff froze. Malik is the best Sixer color guy since Jack Ramsay in my opinion.

Tray reply to stoned81 on Jan 10 at 2:04

I liked both Mix and Salmi a lot better.

I hated Mix. Who is Salmi? My memory must have faded....

will reply to Tray on Jan 10 at 10:15

Loved Mix, HATED Salmi, will always have a soft spot for E. Snow...

Collins has to do something about these slow starts to every game.

...not seeing anybody argue anymore that this year's 6-2 team is still going to be exactly the same damn thing as last year's group that took 20 games to win six...

Tray reply to das411 on Jan 10 at 2:07

Don't know about exactly the same team, but I expect us to have a middle of the pack offense at best by the time the season's through. Right now we're 4th in offensive rating.

The offense is a little more than 2pts/100pos better than last season right now. Say they split the difference between where they are now and where they were last season, that's better than middle of the road. Probably good enough for top 10 this season. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation for this season. They're basically the same team w/ growth from a bunch of players. Of course, if Brand's regression stays like this, it's going to be hard to make up for his efficiency w/out Hawes or Vucevic keeping up their production.

Tk76 reply to das411 on Jan 10 at 9:53

I think they are the same team as the final 66 games of last season. They really have played an easy schedule so far and many of their opponents have been missing stars.

I think they were about a 45 sun team for the majority of last season, and I see them as being only a game or two better this year. They will need to keep up their early success a whole lit longer before I am ready to concede that they have made some kind of major jump to a higher level.

Stan reply to Tk76 on Jan 10 at 9:57

One main difference from last year is that I think they will be able to sustain their double digit leads.

Tk76 reply to Stan on Jan 10 at 10:08

I agree that they seem much more focussed and seem to know at what time they they need to raise their game. But the jury is still out on whether they will be able to sustain this or hoe to will translate against top 10 teams.

Blowing out bad teams is a pretty good indicator of a good team. They didn't do this last season, nothing to this degree. And players missing for other teams is all part of their advantage. Youth, depth and continuity. If you don't count wins against teams w/out their stars, then I guess you shouldn't count losses w/out Iguodala last season, either. So they were really 41-31.

Tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 10 at 10:21

I don't disagree. I just don't think they were s 500 squad for the last 66 games of last season, and there opponents this year have not been at the level where we can be sure that this team has really turned a corner. They never won 5 in a row last year, but I don't think they had such an easy schedule.

jswigga on Jan 10 at 7:17

spot on again, mate. So stoked to see Turner and have another productive (but limited) night. Iggy too. He is such a baller. Can anyone in Philly please explain the hatred for him? I was born and raised in Philly, but have lived overseas for years so I don't have an ear to the ground... why all the ambivalence for an above-the-rim guy who goes all-out every night? Or does he? Doesn't he? I can't recall too many stinkers for him. Hope he makes the Olympic squad.

As for the attendance... that was shocking. WTF?? Watching on League Pass I have to say I was pretty bummed to see so few heads.

Whatever big-time win for US!!

Spencer for hire on Jan 10 at 7:37

Did Bobby Jones have a sitdown with Thad when he was in town? Man what a defensive performance!!!! I think we all thought Thad's contract was more for the offensive end of the floor but he may earn it in other ways.

Spencer for hire reply to Spencer for hire on Jan 10 at 7:39

Vucevic looks a lot more like Splitter so far rather than Krstic.

The Sixers covered the spread yet again.

the back to back is probably the reason turner did not play many minutes, collins probably will play him 25+ tonight.

Good too see the sixers winning, combine that with last years great 2nd half form and it looks like we have a consistent team that will win ball games.

I know the attendance is terrible right now but we all forget before the phillies started to win vetrans stadium looked like a ghost town, so it wont be too long before wells fargo will be packed.

interestingly, one of the soldier's in "full metal jacket" references the "texas suppository building" and gets an unintentional laugh from his fellow marines. maybe malik was referencing the movie. hmm.

I have to say despite some really worrying stretches, i like what i am seeing from the team so far. I am actually not as surprised by the record as i am by the way they got it.

Some positive early observations:

- They win the way good teams win. They obliterate opponents in short stretches in the third or more importantly in the fourth quarters. They win when they play subpar. They look like the team to beat on any given night. All signs of a good team.
- Their defense has been superb. I am especially impressed by Thad who has gone from a defensive liability to the second best defender on the team so far this season.
- They have a system that maximizes the production of almost all of the players (except for maybe Turner).
- They share the ball very well, while taking care of it and turning the ball over at a low rate. Again signs of good teams.
- To make the start even better i have been pleasantly surprised by the players i least expected to. Hawes looks like a decent center so far. Vucevic is one of the best rookies early on and looks like he might be more than a backup center. And Thad, well Thad has been the best Sixer player so far with his relentless energy.
- They have a legit 9man rotation which is more than most teams can say. Yes, i am confident in Vucevic for at least 10min a night, which is what a 9th man would get.


- I am worried about Jrue. He has been shooting better this year (an in crunch time no less), but his overall game is not where i hoped it will be. Whether it is a result of Turner initiating more, Jrue becoming a solid mid range shooter or just early season rust leading to turnovers, if this team is to become a contender they will need Jrue at a much higher level. I want the pass first Jrue back!!!
- Brand is clearly not the same this season. He is still a decent rotation player but he cannot carry this team anymore the way he carried them last year. He is quite possibly the 6th best player on the team right now.
- Meeks needs to find his groove. They need him against the top teams. Meeks has been a streaky shooter throught his career though so i expect him to hit a good streak soon.
- Overall too many jumpers and to little drives to the lane. While Collins has done a very good job to keep everybody satisfied i still think the team needs to be better balanced.
- They won't get a good draft pick in one of the best drafts in years.
- If they were smart they would've made a trade while their assets are at an all time high. I am worried they won't even consider it.

Trade for what? And besides Speights, which asset has lost value so far this season?

Oh quite the contrary. My comment as i can see now is misleading. I think some of the players will be at an all time high this season and they shouldn't be afraid to make a long term trade if it cost them a few games this season. I am however afraid about that. For example, Lou and Hawes i think will never have more value than what they have this season. Even Iguodala cannot be viewed as a bad contract by anyone anymore. If they get a chance to get a valuable asset for guys like that, they shoulg take it. And by valuable asset i mean, a very talented young player, a high lottery pick, risk a 1-year loan for Howard etc.

As for the attendance i think the schedule really kills them. When they have 18 games in 30 days, you cannot expect to have enough fans for each game. I think when they start playing at home once or twice a week, the fans will come. If they somehow launch themselves into a "contender" debate by that time, or if Iguodala makes the allstar team, that will only help them.

Stan reply to Xsago on Jan 10 at 10:01

8k is still pathetic. They should be averaging around 16-17k fans per game.

ojr107 reply to Stan on Jan 10 at 10:29

Yesterday was the College football National Championship game, I wonder how much attendance was down around the league.

Sub 10,000 is pathetic - period regardless of excuses

Minnesota @ Toronto - 14,097
Atlanta @ New Jersey - 12,259
Charlotte @ New York - 19,763
Detroit @ Chicago - 21,530
New Orleans @ Denver - 14,002

So - the sixers had (approximately) 1/3 the attendance of the next worse attendance game last night.

Now, this is of course only PAID attendance, which means corporate sponsors and season ticket holders who might not have shown up...but then again, pathetic is pathetic, in a major city where you can't get corporate sponsorship or season ticket filling to 10K either.

And no it's not the location of the stadium, god what a trite excuse...it's winning titles, it's building a roster that makes people (casual fans) excited...especially in a city with options

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jan 10 at 10:40

"it's building a roster that makes people (casual fans) excited"

Do you mean bringing in Monte Ellis and Zach Randolph?

Did I go anywhere near saying that? Let's face it, casual fans are drawn to stars (not that I think Ellis or Randolph are stars). Winning + Stars helps.

Winning in the playoffs also helps, win a round and people will show up next year...losing in the first round every year will not excite people

One more thing, it may not be as significant but a little support from the talking radio heads would be nice.

I've been listening to the 'mid morning' show on 97.5 (I can't listen to the crap at noon or misanelli) and they talk more about the eagles, or college football, or the nfl playoffs, than they do the sixers, and when they do talk about the sixers it's clear they don't really know what they're talking about...or have anything positive to say...if aron wants to work on his pr spin he needs to start figuring out a little payola for the talking heads

sixers -10 for tonights game, O/U 197.5

DeMarcus Cousins is going to be a huge mismatch today. I expect him to go the FT line a lot. Did anyone watch yesterday's Orlando/Kings game? How were the Kings able to limit Howard to 5 points and still lose by 7 points?

Foul Trouble...Howard got 2 fouls in like the first two minutes of the game...and Orlando still won the game :)

Cousins started out hot, but got winded easily, he's not conditioned enough to play an entire quarter without needing a rest

So who here would trade Turner for Cousins?

I wouldn't trade LaVoy Allen for Cousins.

Then you're a fool

jkay reply to GoSixers on Jan 10 at 10:44

depends on the way you see it. the possibility alone that Cousins could reach even a tenth of his potential is enticing enough but the term 'locker-room cancer' is not irrelevant when you think of him.

And yet he's 20 years old, and has the upside beyond what brian seems to think...when people talk about hate, brians hatred towards cousin is in full force, and hey, i can't blame him. Did I say he'd be in the sixers locker room long? He'd be sent to the d-league, with some special 'mental' coaches and he'd be given an ultimatum (but not the one people think)...this whole cancer thing is silly...Rasheed Wallace was a 'cancer', Randolph is a 'cancer', yada yada yad, if your locker room isn't strong enough to resist one bad apple, then it's not a good locker room anyway, the sixers have veterans to bitchslap cousins and a coach who would tell him to STFU.

We went into the cousins 'issuses' things in detail last year, but to say you wouldn't trade for him is foolish, his potential makes him valuable if you can get through to him, and it's not as far gone as people seem to think, but in professional sports teams only ever hire coaches to help a guys game, not his mental attitude, which is hella easier to modify than to find a way to make a mediocre guy better than his talent would allow...my own personal opinion of course, don't want to get into it any more, but if the sixers could make a good deal for cousins, i'd want them to - roy hibbert showed why last night

Aside from that the sixers NEED to find a young power forward cause this looks like Brands last year of even partially productive

Stan reply to Tk76 on Jan 10 at 10:10

I would trade Speights for Cousins.

I probably wouldn't. While Cousins does have more raw talent than Turner i don't want a headcase like him on the team. And i don't think he will ever learn to play winning basketball. That Kentucky college team from two seasons ago was as loaded with talent as i have seen in college and they somehow managed to f*** it up, with Cousins being one of the major reasons why.

Everyone who had all their shit together at 20 after living a life of 'do whatever you want' raise your hand?

Hell everyone who had their shit together at 20 raise their hand?

I hope there were people in your life who didn't give up on you at 20.

Slowly, but confidently raising my hand :))

Anyway, i'm not saying it's impossible for him to become a force, but not all headcases figure it out like Rasheed Wallace or Z-Bo. Oh, and they figured it out at 30 after changing a few teams....

In 5-6 years maybe it will make sense to trade for Cousins. But right now, that can lead to nothing good. At lead that's my opinion.

Goose's per 36 numbers are crazy right now.

He went for 20pts 18 boards in the last 2 games in 37 minutes. While his per 36 is 17.5 pts. 14 reb.

His WS/48 is .392. Which is second in the NBA for players with more than 75 minutes played. As you would guess, Lebron is the only player ahead of Voose.

Small sample but amusing.

Tk76 reply to Tk76 on Jan 10 at 10:36

By goose I mean Voose.

Goose is better - top gun is unintentionally awesome

Tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 10 at 10:40

He is hawes wing man?

I'm cautiously optimistic that my faith in Tony DiLeo is still well founded

no way i trade for cousins. we are 6-2 and many of our key players are not even playing up to last years level. thad has become an amazing defensive player. if he can match his current defense with last years offense, watch out. obviously we have flaws but we are doing a great job working around them. any one of out top eight or nine can drop 20 points on a given night and we hve the number 1 defense. the scheduling gods have been good to us. we should rip thru january. february is when we will se if we are contenders. we were competitive with the best teams last year and this year our offense and especially our defense is better. gotta love how things are going. not concerned about brand because he is currently doing what we need him to do. I expect holiday to get his turnovers under control and I love how he is hitting big shots.

South Broad on Jan 10 at 11:07

This, what seems like, daily whine over Turner and his minutes is becoming amusing. Think it would be safe to guess that minute distribution is going to be all over the place with this schedule. But when looking at last night's game again this morning, Turner was doing good to be looked at as even average. He was arguably the most passive guy on the court on the offensive end except for two drives to the hoop (one being full court). He had more turnovers than assists (as did most of the team minus Andre and Lou). Granted, his defense was good for the most part but with the way the team was looking on offense (and taking his passivity into account) he received right around the minutes he deserved. Lou was good at setting others up, though he took his usual ill-advised shots (which he is probably asked to do), and Iguodala was the best player on the floor last night. So, there wasn't an opportunity for extended minutes for Turner or Meeks when you look at how each of them played in that game.

At this point, those two aren't really what you could say "better than the other", they just bring much needed different elements to the court, some elements needed at more times than others. Just not sure if the infatuation over Turner and his minutes results from his high draft status and inflated expectations, or obliviousness to his current mediocre and inconsistent play on the court. Definitely grin-worthy though:)

concerning last night's game, Turner's defense alone was reason enough to leave him in. Sixers guards (bar Iggy) as a group were terrible in initiating any offense.
But Lou Williams' bad shots really killed us last night. Wasting possessions is unforgivable. To top it off, his defense was as pick friendly as usual. I was actually yelling at the TV for DC to pull him, which he didn't. Heck my sister thought I was nuts.
For last night's game, that argument is valid.

I'm not one of the people who thinks Turner's gotten a raw deal. Last night I thought he was a better option than Meeks based on how they played in the game. Looking back at the rotations, though, it looks like he more lost minutes to Lou than Meeks, so it's not a big deal.

As long as the sixers win, I'm not sure how anyone gets a raw deal, but there are times when Jodie is maddeningly frustrating, or I even forget he's on the court :)

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