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The Sixers Inquired On Amare?

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Sixers_fan92 on Jan 29 at 1:46
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I don't think I want any part of amateur either. But man he and jrue running the pick and roll. Him and Dre. Man. Idk what. The knocks would want tho. And I don't wanna give up jrue et or iggy

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Sixers_fan92 reply to Sixers_fan92 on Jan 29 at 1:48
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Stupid auto spell. Should be amare* and knicks* not amateur and knocks

Yeah, I can't imagine they'd just give him away unless they were completely convinced they'd made a humongous mistake. His value on the trade market can't be great w/ the injury history, dip in production and uninsured contract, though. I doubt he gets moved.

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Sixers_fan92 on Jan 29 at 1:58
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At least we know the FO is inquiring about talent even if nothing gets done. If we were to get amare tho what would you be willing to give up ?

I don't believe the report.

We all know that the Sixers only look to aquire ball friendly, jump shooting, athletically challenged bigs. The want a popper and not a roller.

Maybe they were actually calling about Josh Harrellson.

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Johnnylaptop on Jan 29 at 2:05
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I hope Sixers remember how they got stung signing an older veteran, Elton Brand, with a history of injury's.

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Sixers_fan92 reply to Johnnylaptop on Jan 29 at 2:13
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Not only the injury history. Have you seen how he's playing this year. He's shooting about 43% from the field. Say what you want about Anthony taking shots from him but that has nothing to do with him making less than half of his shot attempts

I think that's at least partially a result of him being a pick-and-roll big with no smalls who have a clue how to run the pick-and-roll. He needs someone to set him up, and the Knicks' plan was to have Melo play a point-forward role this season. Melo's as point-forward has manifested itself in 74 assists to 54 turnovers.

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Sixers_fan92 reply to Brian on Jan 29 at 2:21
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Do you think him coming to philly would work ? There are a lot of willing passers on this team.

Depends on what you mean by work. It would depend on what you have to give up to get him as to whether he'd make the team better. He'd be a fit offensively, and they could probably hide him defensively (though he might give Collins a heart attack). I don't think he's the key to making them a contender, though, and I don't think you can pay a guy that much if he isn't that. Plus, you've got the injuries on top of it all.

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Sixers_fan92 reply to Brian on Jan 29 at 2:29
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I agree he would be a nice fit offensively and he did average 2 blks a game last season if I'm not mistaken. If not for the huge contract and injury history I'd try to get a deal done.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Jan 29 at 2:55
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He's not even the roll man on most of the pick and rolls that the Knicks run. Tyson Chandler usually has that honor, and Amare plays the role of the guy who stretches the floor to create space for that PnR. He's putting up more jumpshots now than he ever has (just based on watching a game or two, no stats to back me up here)

The guy needs a PG. If Amare is not playing with a guard who can run the P&R they he ius going to just shoot jumpers. He is not going to get his off of O-Boards since that has not been a big part of his game for a long time.

He actually is a good jump shooter0- but it is a waste of his talent.

He needs Carmelo to not be on the team

And his jump shooting this year is bad

I hope Sixers remember how they got stung signing an older veteran, Elton Brand, with a history of injuries.

The better comparison for me from recent Sixer history would be Chris Webber. I was one of those who was really excited when they signed Webber -- until I saw him play and realized that he was primarily a jump shooter with no lift at that point in his career (same microfracture surgery as Amare too, if I'm not mistaken).

If this was the Amare of 2007-08 who averaged 25/9/2 on 59/81 shooting, sign me up in a heartbeat. But I suspect Amare now is closer to Webber circa 2006.

You could probably make a deal that is appealing to both teams if NY was allowed to trade for brand and then amnesty him this summer (and sign Dwight.) But since you can't do that it seems like a difficult fit since the Sixers don't have a ton of expirings.

Maybe something like:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86xalgf

Amare and Douglas

for Lou, ET and Noce

For the Sixers they make a run at it right now (although I say the come up short.) And they keep a balance roster by getting back Douglas to fill in as a cheap bench scorer.

For NY they add 2 young, dynamic players who might fit with Melo, while freeing up some cap space. But they would have to make another move to really get under the cap.

Again, don't really see how it works.

The Sixers would be left w/ no backup PG, but I guess they could use AI9 as point-forward for stretches and get by w/ Douglas otherwise.

Brand as 6th man in this case, or Amare/Brand up front?

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tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 29 at 3:21
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Brand as 1st big off the bench. But I see Brand getting 30 minutes off the bench on many nights with Hawes playing less minutes. It would probably help both players and would make up for the loss of 2 key bench scorers.

Most triple doubles in Sixers history, according to the postgame show: Barkley with 10, AI9 with 8 after last night, Andre Miller with 3, and Aaron McKie with 2...and that's it? really? Didn't ET have one last year?

Jrue had one last year, and Iverson had one as well, I think. Those might be all the guys w/ multiples, though Dr. J really didn't a couple?

Actually, wait, that can't be right. Wilt had to have a bunch. Is this most triple doubles since 1985 or something?

basketball-reference.com only has game box scores in their database back to 85-86, here's the list for the Sixers in that time.

some interesting names on that list, thanks for looking it up...but Harvey Pollack probably has more stats than any of us would know what to do with, anyone know if his stat books are available online anywhere?

Oh, i prey this won't happen. Stoudemire is not the player he used to be anymore. He is old, injury prone and worst of all can't play defense. The team would probably be worse with him.

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jswigga on Jan 29 at 7:51
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No, no, no! We don't want Amare if it means giving up any of our dudes...! Still, I'm glad the rumors are about him and not Mello as Melo destroys any team he's on.

Oh. And love that NY is already selling out Stat too.

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Jason M on Jan 29 at 9:15
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I just have one question. Why does Collins hate Turner so much?

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bebopdeluxe reply to Jason M on Jan 29 at 9:30
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Ummm...are you new around here?

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Jason M reply to bebopdeluxe on Jan 29 at 9:49
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Yeah it was a joke. I just read all of the ridiculous comments on the game thread last night.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Jason M on Jan 29 at 9:53
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Yeah...I don't think that Collins hates Turner. I just think he's an idiot for playing him the way he does.

;-)

I keep seeing the "Lou hates being on the bench". Could you please cite some evidence in the form of quotes or at least newspaper references to this? Beyond the fact that no good player actually wants to sit during crunch time, where's the evidence that Lou is toxic/whining?

For "toxic/whining", I've found no hard evidence. I think "hates being on the bench" is inferred by his body language, especially facial expression, when bench minutes increase. It doesn't take a Reader & Advisor to detect a sour disposition in one as animated as Lou.

I don't necessarily see bristling as a negative. Don't want bench players to be satisfied or complacent. Want them ready for battle and game-productive. Nuttin' like a seat on the bench to drive that message home.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 29 at 10:16
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Agreed. I think that Turner being aggressive offensively in garbage time last night (after a couple of games of the kind of standing on the wing, passive/aggreessive crap that he pulled last season) was good to see...it wa almost as Turner was saying, "fuck this...I can be every bit the selfish gunner that everyone else is being out here.". Good to see.

I think even Turner's biggest fans, under a bare lightbulb in an unadorned room, would admit that his 97- game NBA career has been uneven, to put it mildy.

23.6 mpg, .436, .286, .760, 4.4 TRB, 2.2 A, 7.8 ppg

He just hasn't proven himself yet. Would another city or a head coach other than Collins help him? Maybe.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 29 at 11:07
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And the reason why we should trade Turner instead of Meeks - a one-dimentional player who brings substantially less of several major basketball skills (defense, rebounding, ball-handling, passing) than Turner has shown is?

Is there a greater likelihood that with consistent minutes Turner will become a more impactful offensive player than Meeks will become a better defender, ball-handler, rebounder and passer than Turner? If the singular skill that Meeks provides can be provided by, say, Jrue Holiday, then why continue to play Meeks over Turner? Why are people on this forum SO fucking hesitant to consider that Jrue is NOT Ricky Rubio - this quintessential uber-passing PG - and instead allow Jrue's potential as a TRUE closer to be developed and exploited by allowing him to play off the ball at times in crunch time while Turner or Iguodala take care of he ball-handling and passing? When Meeks is out there with Jrue ( and please, please, PLEASE do not put Meeks out there with Lou, thanks), aren't your offensive sets WAY more predictable and restricted because of Meeks' limitations in ball- handling and passing?

Meeks must give pretty good head.

First of all, I'm not a big fan of Jrue's hyperkinetic PG game; talented but too unpredictable yet, too focused on his own scoring. He is though only 21; there's time for him to acquire court sophistication, develop more Jruelessness.

Secondly, I haven't promoted a Turner trade, though that might be in the best interests of the team at some point. He presents duplicative skills and a singular ego not easily managed. Unless you're getting rid of Iguodala, it could be the way to go to fill team needs.

As TK76 recently remarked, Meeks (and his tighter, more recessive game and ego) is a better fit at the moment between Jrue and Iguodala. The JTIMW minutes logjam is the Sixers' gift and Collins' happy problem. Can Turner be an elite NBA point guard or point forward if given the opportunity? To me, it's very much in doubt. His pro identity is unclear, though his desire to climb the ladder is not. A funky Broadway player - with definite assets and flaws - who's miles away from the precepts of team-first fundamentals, my view.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 29 at 12:49
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And your evidence for Turner's inability to grasp "team-first fundamentals" is what?

Please substantiate this position with examples and facts. Thanks.

My eyes and his petulance. His shot and the rim.

Meeks is the one who wined about minutes this year, not Turner.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 29 at 13:34
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That's all you've got? "His shot and the rim"?

Hoo-boy.

And "petulance"? You mean, like the "petulance" that Lou's body language oozes when he is pulled out in the stretch run of a close game? The only difference is that Lou has actually won more than one or two games in his career...as opposed to Meeks - who is handed MAJOR minutes every game in spite of the limitations in virtually every aspect of his game other than his shooting. If I were Turner - watching a guy who gets big minutes over him despite a game that is NOWHERE NEAR as complete as his own (and a guy who goes into the coach's office to say, "oh, coach, you're not playing me as much...don't you like me?"), I would be pissed as well.

Perfect response.

Purposely misinterpreting what he says to rant is beneath you.

Am almost intrigued by the high compliment, m'lord. And say "hi" to Oprah & Dennis Miller for me. Did you know the greatest Gaucho ever was G Brian Shaw, followed by Laker/Cav F Don Ford of mid-70s?

Any compliment you viewed in my comment was unintended and only in your fevered (drug induced?) ramblings

Thanks just the same, sport. A negative comment from you is a ringing endorsement.

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Jan 29 at 12:43
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Touche, bro.

I do stand by the content of my post, however.

Las Vegas has listed Wizards, Bobcats & Pistons as early favorites for winning this season's NIT.

Iggy on Gillette-close triple-double: "It just comes naturally to me." Comical line of the year.

Per usual, your misinformed comments are better served on philly.com.

Inform me, Iggy cultist. You have the power within you to be free.

Yes, that's what I am, an "Iggy cultist". Perhaps my goggles are just less foggy than yours.

Regardless, I'll inform you of what you already know (but let your bias and agenda get in the way of):

Triple-doubles are not a common feat to accomplish in the NBA. Most players, with their skill sets can't reach one during their careers, let alone multiple times.
Someone of Iguodala's skill set would have a higher propensity to getting a triple-double. In other words, someone who is a "stat stuffer" (note, "stat stuffer" does not imply high-volume, crutch-time, super duper star, which is the real reason why you dislike him, but are afraid to admit it)

His comment of triple-doubles coming naturally to him - in relation to other NBA players, they would come more natural to him. Most people would understand this and not scoff at it. That is, unless of course they have a natural bias against him :)

So yes, I have the power to be free just as you have the power to not be so narrow-minded. Philly.com is still calling for you if you're interested.

The Amare trade doesn't help us short term to the point that we'll be contenders. This hurts us in the long term and gives the Knicks the opportunity to build a really good team with Deron, Melo, and Chandler.

I'll pass.

Melo is the one who should be traded, maybe for Deron.

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Turtle Bay reply to Stan on Jan 29 at 12:30
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It would be pretty funny if the Knicks traded Melo right after his year-long demands that he be traded to them. Having said that, I think Anthony is a much better player than Amare

I'm just glad there's a sixers trade rumor not involving 2nd round picks and bench warmers

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The Answer on Jan 29 at 13:08
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The bitchiness on these comment threads has gotten progressively worse

Sorry, Iverson.

What is all this Meeks whined about minutes nonsense. All he did was ask Collins if he is doing anything wrong (he knew he wasn't playing well at the time). He never whined for minutes.

For all the hate Meeks has gotten this season, he has actually produced. He is better than last year 20 games into the season.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Xsago on Jan 29 at 13:44
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I don't hate Meeks - I think he is a nice guy to bring in off the bench. I just do not understand why a guy whose game is so limited gets major, developmental minutes (with the starters) while Turner gets stuck half the time playing garbage minutes at the end of blowouts. I can't for the life of me understand why a guy (Meeks) whose upside is a poor-man's Dell Curry gets these quality minutes, while a guy (Turner) with WAY more skills and upside is getting whatever burn is left over. How the fuck will Turner ever get the confidence he needs to be a potential closer for this team when, after playing his ass off against LBJ and the Heat in Miami, he sits on the bench and watches Meeks and the rest of the team piss the game away? Huh?

Turner gets more points, rebounds, and assists, and plays better D than Meeks. Whatever Meeks produces, it's worse than Turner in all categories.

As for Meeks' whining, I equate going into your coach's office and begging for plays to be run for you and saying "why did I only get 16 minutes" with a classic junior-high whine. I thought that kind of stuff ended when we turned 14. I never like those kids on my junior high team who would be the coach's pet to get more minutes, so I sure am not going to like an NBA player who does that.

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Tray reply to spiller27 on Jan 29 at 15:07
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Actually, Meeks is a pretty efficient scorer, Turner's a pretty inefficient one.

People who think Meeks should come off the bench don't understand the concept of fitting a player's skill set with the rest of the group on the floor.

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Stan reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 14:28
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True. But I don't understand why Meeks gets significant minutes in the 3rd while Turner doesn't play until garbage time in the 4th

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bebopdeluxe reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 14:29
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So, because the one-dimensional guy (Meeks) can only be successful if he is on the floor with the starters, we take minutes from one of our key pieces for the future, and let him play the last 10 minutes of blowouts. I am sure that Turner is getting LOTS of valuable development time while Jrue, Iggy, EB and the rest of the starters have towels on their heads on the bench...

So we all don't know anything, and neither do 29 out of 30 NBA coaches? No other team starts a one-dimensional three-point specialist.

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Stan reply to spiller27 on Jan 29 at 14:35
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Meeks stretches the floor and doesn't hurt you on the defensive end. Having a guy like Meeks is important when your SF is not a good jumpshooter and you want your PG to penetrate more.

"Meeks stretches the floor" is a myth. He's wide open nearly all the time.

"Meeks doesn't hurt you on the defensive end" is absolutely false in my humble opinion.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Stan on Jan 29 at 14:44
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Even if Meeks is a credible defender - which I do not believe he is - he's not better than Turner, IMO. And in terms of rebounding, passing, ball-handling and other areas, he is materially inferior to Turner.

Hopefully, this argument will become a moot point as the quality of the competition gets better, the games get tighter, and we see JTI closing games.

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sooner reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 14:32
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you're only talking about one side of the floor. Because he's a good 3pt shooter the coach should turn a blind eye to his poor defense?

It's ironic that most of the crowd that defends starting Meeks are the same people who blast generic fans for being obsessed with PPG.

Meeks plays better with the starting lineup than Evan Turner does. That's already been proven. We were 3-13 last year when we started Turner.

And it makes more sense because Turner isn't nearly as effective when the ball isn't in his hands. Turner is at his best when he rebounds the ball and pushes the fast break. Unfortunately, that is exactly what Iguodala does for the 1st team.

And plenty of teams start 3 point specialists. Look at last year's champions the Mavericks who started DeShawn Stevenson despite Jason Terry being the better overall player. Look at the Spurs starting Keith Bogans despite Manu Ginobili playing better.

It's all about finding a lineup where the players talents can complement each other the best.

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bebopdeluxe reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 14:48
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The Spurs and Mavs examples are both good ones...and as long as we have JTI closing games when things get tougher, I am fine with Meeks starting. I just hope that what Collins did in the Miami game (having a fucking brain fart and leaving Meeks in over Turner even after ET beasted in the 1st half and Meeks was useless in stopping the Heat's 3rd quarter run) was an isolated incident, that's all.

The examples were actually terrible. As I wrote below Stevenson is a defensive (not 3-point) specialist and the Spurs benched Bogans and started Ginobli in the second-half of that season because Popovich realized had made a mistake.

Manu can play in the starting lineup because he can also play the role of spot up shooter when Parker and Duncan are on the floor. Early on in his career, that wasn't the case and the Spurs started spot-up shooters over Ginobili and had a lot of success using that rotation.

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sooner reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 14:49
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you are only talking about the offensive side. 3 and 13 was last season, it was turner's first 16 games of his career I don't think that is a fair argument. If you watch the last 10 minutes or so of the denver game when jrue, turner, iggy, thad and brand were playing together I think you wouldn't be arguing that turner and iggy can't play together. Iggy is more then capable of making an impact without the ball in his hands, admittedly turner's impact is lessened when he doesn't have the ball in his hands at this point in his career. But like you I am only talking about the offensive side. On defense turner and iggy together is a tremendous advantage against other teams, with meeks out there not so much.

So much fail here.

(1) Turner didn't start until Game 7. We were 1-6 when he entered the starting lineup. He started 12 games, we went 4-8. 3-1 at home, 1-7 on the road. 4 of those losses were against OKC, DAL, SAS, and MIA, all on the road.

(2) DeShawn Stevenson is a defensive specialist, not a three-point specialist.

(3) Keith Bogans started over Ginobli in first half of the 2009-2010 season in what can only be described as the worst decision of Greg Popovich's career. He realized that mistake and corrected it during the second half of that season and the playoffs.

I'm not arguing that Turner doesn't help the team when he starts at small forward in place of Iguodala.

Why don't you measure the W-L when Turner started at shooting guard in place of Meeks.

It was better with Meeks, but that also coincided with the team figuring things out. I'd argue that the improvement last year had much more to do with the team needing time to figure out how to play together than Meeks and his sub-40% 3-point shooting entering the starting-lineup. We'll never know but I believe the Sixers would've had the same success (playoffs, first round exit) with Turner starting.

Anyways it doesn't matter, I'm talking about this year and the future. A 3-point specialist who can't create his own shot and is a liability on D should be coming off the bench like they do on every other team in the NBA, in my humble opinion.

Have you been listening to me? It's not about which player is better. I've already agreed that Turner is the better player. Meeks plays better with the starting lineup because he can play around the 3-point line. Turner can't do that. That allows players like Elton Brand to be double-teamed less, it allows the players to spread the floor more easily when Iguodala or Holiday leads the fast break.

I've been listening. I just disagree that starting a defensive liability just because he hits 40% of threes is good for the team. And it's simply false that Meeks prevents Brand from getting double-teamed and spreads the floor for Jrue and Iggy. To do those things, you have to be closely guarded at the three-point line. In fact, Meeks is left wide open on most possessions.

You're telling me you would rather have Brand kick it out, when double-teamed, to Evan Turner on the perimeter instead of Meeks?

When did I say that? I believe basketball is a two-way sport. Defense matters to me. If it doesn't to you, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Ok, so now we're entering a new argument. That's good.

I do agree that Turner instead of Meeks is a better defensive lineup. However, the Sixers perimeter defense has remained the best in the league despite starting Meeks. Why? Because they have Jrue and Iggy to guard the two most potent guards from the other team. Meeks typically guards the weakest perimeter player. This strategy works against most teams, but against teams like the Heat who have multiple perimeter threats then starting Turner over Meeks becomes plausible. But over the course of a season when most teams won't feature 3 players in the back-court who can penetrate, we can get away with not starting Turner.

Agreed that starting Meeks doesn't hurt us against the typical bad NBA team. Our record this year against bad teams speaks for itself.

I'm more concerned about beating good teams and playoff success. Last year I was satisfied with a first-round exit because, after the Eddie Jordan debacle, getting to the playoffs was a success. But this year a first-round exit would be a disappointment. Thus far this season, we haven't played well against good teams. You need to beat a good team 4 out of 7 to make it to the second round. I think Turner gives us a better chance to do that.

Now see you're missing my point. Starting Meeks doesn't hurt us defensively against a team not named the Miami Heat. There aren't any other teams in the league that require 3 plus perimeter defenders in order to defend. That's what makes the Heat so good.

Against the other 28 NBA teams, you're helping yourself by starting Meeks over Turner because of how much better he fits in offensively. There's no point in making a permanent change to start Turner when it helps you against only one team.

I'm not missing your point, just disagreeing. I think Turner on the floor instead of Meeks makes us better against every team, not just Miami. I think against bad teams (the majority of our opponents thus far) it doesn't matter because those teams stink. I think it does matter against good teams, and we're only going to be facing good teams in the playoffs.

See, you keep missing the point. I agree that Turner on the floor is better than Meeks on the floor. But it's who they're playing with. Meeks simply fits in much better with Brand and Iguodala, which is why he gets more minutes.

Again I'm not missing your point. I know you think Meeks fits better. I simply don't agree. I don't think Meeks belongs in the rotation, frankly. We have three guards who are legit NBA players who should share regular minutes: Holiday, Turner, and Lou. Meeks, in my opinion (an opinion not shared by many on this web site, but shared by every real human Sixer fan I know) should not play more than 10 minutes a game. His role should strictly be to come in when we need a 3-pointer. That's how other teams use 3-point specialists.

If shooting 3-pointers well was so important that it outweighed faults in all other aspects of the game, Craig Hodges wouldn't have sat the bench all his years with the Bulls while he was dominating 3-point contests.

Meeks can't create his own shot and plays terrible defense. In my opinion (again, not shared by many here), that outweighs whatever benefit we derive from 40% three-point shooting.

I get your entire point. Meeks fits better with the starting lineup. I just don't agree, that's all.

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Turtle Bay reply to spiller27 on Jan 29 at 19:39
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I think in arguing for Turner receiving more playing time, you are also exaggerating quite a bit when it comes to Meeks. I've seen every Sixers game this season, and although I don't think Meeks is a great defender, I would say he is average, and definitely not "horrible" as you put it. That, combined with his elite 3 point shooting, warrants him about 20 minutes per game on THIS team, which definitely needs players to spread the floor (don't really get your argument that Meeks doesn't spread the floor because he makes open three point shots. Are you complaining that Meeks gets a lot of open looks? Would you prefer that defenders guarded him out there?).

I think your main problem with the way Collins is handling Turner is that he isn't a "starter." I get that. As a fan, and as a basketball player, you naturally think that the better player should be a starter. Try to get past that mentality and accept that Collins likes to have balanced units on the floor, and that necessitates him starting Meeks and bringing Turner off the bench.

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Turtle Bay reply to Turtle Bay on Jan 29 at 19:44
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Oops, didn't see the "Turner vs. Meeks" page. Reposted over there. Try not to ban me.

Meeks is more covered on the perimeter than Evan Turner.

I never said anything about whether Turner is covered on the perimeter. I was responding to your statement that Meeks "spreads the floor" which is false since he is wide open.

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tk76 reply to dwight on Jan 29 at 15:51
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Quality response.

It is about putting the best team on the floor over 48 min and not about having the most talented individuals in your starting line-up regardless of fit.

They have too many perimeter players who need to dribble to help the team. Right now that is costing Turner minutes, and u.timate the answer will be to trade one of J/T/I or Lou.

But that is good. You don't make a trade right now. You wait until you can use one of those redundant assets in a trade for a frontcourt player to either replace Brand long term or a better center.

I think peoples intense focus on ET's minutes is missing the forest for the trees. I also think it is a fundamental disconnect between what J/I and Lou have proven they can do on the NBA level and what Turner has not proven 2300 minutes into his NBA career (at the same age as a lot of established NBA stars.)

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jan 29 at 16:36
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My guess is Lou will opt out this summer, either because 1) he has a good season and someone will give him a new deal or - more hopefully - 2) Lou gets pissed off sitting on the bench a bunch at crunchtime in favor of JTI.

I like the trade far better that was being proposed on 97.5
Orlando, New Jersey, Philly deal.
Philly gets---Dwight Howard, Deron Williams

Orlando Gets--Jrue, Nets 1st round pick, Elton Brand

Jersey gets - Jameer Williams, Philly 1st rd pick, Orland 1st round pick, Iguodola

Of course you take the chance of not signing either guy but THAT would make Philly a contender for about the next 5 years. Fun to fantasize

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Stan reply to Gdog on Jan 29 at 13:45
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Hahaha. I would make this trade in a heartbeat. But why would Orlando and NJ do this? Yikes, these people are worse than me when it comes to trade ideas.

Orlando would do it because Howard doesn't want to be there and they don't have other players to package in a trade that would make Howard want to stay there.
In place of Howard they are getting a young, promising PG, a first round pick from a crap team (so probably a decent lottery pick in a strong draft) and a guy whose contract will expire in a year.

Jersey would do this because they get "Jameer Williams", a couple first round picks, and Iguodala, who they could package in a deal probably for young prospects and more picks, if they were smart.

In each case, both teams are getting rid of their stars who may or may not re-sign with the team anyway. The real risk would be with the sixers.

You don't seriously believe the Nets would do this? I can't tell if you're joking. I sure hope you are.

I didn't say they would do it. I was trying to come up with reasons why they would. If there is no way they can retain Deron Williams, their best option is not letting him walk, but rather dealing him for picks and prospects.

Maybe Howard will go to the Nets to team up with him!! Yeah right...

Gotcha. In my opinion there's a zero percent chance they trade D-Will. They gave up Favors, Kanter, Harris, and GSW's #1 for him. They wouldn't be able to get anything close to that for him now. They're going to ride it out.

Also, I do think the Nets are gonna get Howard. BK will offer more than any other team to get him. I think they'll give up Brook Lopez, MarShon Brooks, and 4 or 5 first-rounders for Howard and Turkoglu.

I'm pretty sure that only the Magic can offer Howard the most money. I believe the new CBA is 5 years for teams who have bird's rights and 4 years for teams who don't.

That's true. However, Dwight has been trashing his teammates all year. They're not keeping him. As long as he stays healthy, he'll be able to get another max contract 4 years from now, so it won't really matter whether he signs for 4 or 5 years. I think there's a zero percent chance he re-signs with the Magic, and I think the Magic realize that.

"If he stays healthy"

When you're talking about 20 million dollars, most players wouldn't want to gamble on whether or not they will stay healthy.

If it's the difference between playing in New York or Orlando, he'll absolutely take that risk. He'll make more than $20M in extra endorsements/entertainment opportunities playing in NYC anyway.

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Stan reply to spiller27 on Jan 29 at 14:30
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I don't think you're allowed to give up more than 1 first round draft pick for two consecutive years.

True. Won't stop BK. 4 picks over 8 years.

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Stan reply to Jeff on Jan 29 at 14:20
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Orlando could do better. They might as well trade with NJ straight up for Lopez and two first round picks. This way, they wouldn't have to take on an extra year's salary for Elton Brand.

Also if rumors are correct, the trade proposal from GS would be much better. Orlando would get Stephon Curry and expiring contracts while giving up Hedo's contract.

NJ gave up Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter and another lottery pick for Deron Williams. The first round draft picks they get from Philadelphia and Orlando, along with Lou and Jameer are not worth the risk they took. They are better off doing nothing and convincing Howard to sign with them in free agency.

So basically what you're saying is New Jersey is a doomed team? I really don't think they're getting Howard. If they get Howard, you can't win a championship with two people.

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Stan reply to Jeff on Jan 29 at 14:43
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Howard and Deron are superstars who are in their prime. If BK is a good GM he'll be able to fill out the roster spots with decent players. They also have a lottery pick that could net them a decent player.

This isn't the same situation as NY. Deron and Howard and much much much better than Melo and Amare.

You also have to consider Deron and Howard's situations. Should Deron go to Dallas and play with an aging Dirk or stay in NJ and build a great team with Howard?

Deron and Howard are in their primes now. I'm pretty sure they are looking to win a championship now. With that said, I have no doubt the Russian owner would spend a fortune trying to build a winner around them. I'm just not sure that they have the assets to get other significant pieces. We have to remember that whatever that team becomes, they still have to be good enough to compete with chicago, miami, and OKC.

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Stan reply to Jeff on Jan 29 at 14:54
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No one on their roster is untradeable. They'll have a top 5 lottery pick along with 20 million in cap space for the summer of 2013.

They'll have to pay for that top 5 lottery pick, as well as giving extensions to Deron williams and paying a max salary to Howard. When all of that is said and done I don't think they'll still have that 20 million in cap space.

In addition to that, they'll still have to sign 5+ players to fill out the roster.

19 each for D-Will and Howard is 38. 5 mil for a top pick is 43. Salary cap will be 59 or 60 mil. That's 16 mil remaining. I think they have 4 or 5 guys signed next year that hits the 60 mil, plus the midlevel exception. Seems easily doable.

Go here:

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/11-12salaries.htm

You'll see who they have left after signing Deron, Howard, and lottery pick.

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Stan reply to Jeff on Jan 29 at 15:38
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They'll have 10-15 million in the summer of 2013 if they add guys for the minimum salary to fill out their roster in 2012. Next year they'll have 16 million in expiring contracts along with a guy they drafted in the top 5 as trade pieces. If BK is a good GM, he can build a championship team.

Seems to me Howard does not want to sign with the Magic no matter what. And Deron Im sure doesn't want to be on a 20 win team his whole career.
I actually think the trade makes sense for ALL teams, with Philly acquiring the most risk of all. Ill tell you this, if somehow this could happen, Philly would be a basketball town once again. Even above the almighty Eagles.
I dont know if anyone ever listens to 97.5 but many of their hosts have a pretty good feel about the sixers and their fans. The sixers are a fun team to watch---but unfortunately they are going to have to make some type of bold move to get to the next level. Its great they could win 50 games in a normal season but until they get a bona fide elite top 10 player to build around---they will still fall short of a championship. Everyone keeps mentioning the Pistons---but they had a deron williams type point in Thomas--so even they were not without at least one elite talent.

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Stan reply to Gdog on Jan 29 at 14:49
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NJ would be gave up 2 players- Derrick Favors and Enes Kantor, along with a lottery pick to get Deron Williams and be in the situation they are in right now. They have the most to lose and trading away Deron for less than what they gave up is defeat. They would be better letting Deron walk and rebuild from there.

You also have to remember that Chris Paul was traded for Eric Gordon and Minnesota's lottery pick. Orlando and NJ can do much better than what Philadelphia is offering them.

Man, I want no parts of Amare. None at all. Brand has been way better than him this year, anyway. Let's keep what we have going.

By the way, with yesterday's game we fell to 28th in attempts at the rim, ahead only of the offensively challenged Lakers and Nets. We're second in the league in 2-point jump shots (shots from 10-23 feet), behind only the Bobcats.

As far as all of the Turner comments go, I really think a lot of his seemingly reduced role the past week is due to the fact they were winning three of the games handily by the time he got his normal second half run. That's really not a bad thing to have happen, to have a good enough 1st three quarters so that the last one is essentially all garbage time.

Collins won't change the rotation this week, and they'll probably be in closer games with Turner playing in the 4th Quarter with all of the other rotation guys, not Nocioni. That's the way he sees fit right now. He'll get his 20-25 minutes.

OK, but his per-36 numbers are 14/8/4. Doesn't that indicate 20-25 is not enough?

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Rich reply to spiller27 on Jan 29 at 15:32
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Compared to maybe Jodie, but Jodie fills a role. I don't think Jodie needs to be out there quite as long (Maybe 26 to 20 Minutes), but it's hard to get mad when we are winning. That's the only complaint I can think of too.

Lou's Per-36 is 22-5-3 and he plays a minute less. It might seem like more sometimes when we are blowing teams out, but Collins really has all his bench guys (Minus Voose) and Meeks around 26 minutes, which is fine. For one thing, it doesn't tire them out and when he needs a huge effort from one of them, they are all capable of doing it.

What's wrong with "The Night Shift" being a team effort? The name could use a little work, but the idea of it is pretty solid and they way they put it into practice is very enjoyable.

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Sharone Wright on Jan 29 at 16:41
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4-3 over the next 7 games pipe dream or possible?

I think it's definitely possible. Actually they have to win at least 4 if the want that 3rd seed in the East.

Jameer Nelson, who is suffering from concussion-like symptoms, will not play on Sunday, and has been ruled out for Monday, as well.

So Duhon at the point, huh?

yep and im looking at the magic roster and larry hughes is on it

I wonder if Bulls fans are at this moment talking about how horrible Derrick Rose is after he missed those two free throws in the 'clutch'?

PS - Magic JOhnson doesn't think the sixers are a top 5 time in the east - going forward - but the pacers and celtics are

Good to know he pays attention to the NBA and doesn't follow hype.

Man look at those top 5 celtics just putting it to the cavs :)

PS - for all the folk who have problems with the plastering of the 'bad teams' - somehow thinking it's bad for the sixers or something. You play the teams on your schedule - GOOD TEAMS beat the crap out of bad teams (and every once in a while they slip up) -

The fact that there are a lot of bad teams in the eastern conference (and that 3,possibly four of them if you wanna count the celtics are in the sixers division) isn't something they can control

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Sharone Wright reply to GoSixers on Jan 29 at 18:16
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Bottom line, we need to do well in the next 7 games to get any respect. Atlanta--good win. Pacers--good win. Unfortunately, that's the whole list.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Jan 29 at 18:24
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Free throw shooting is the only part of Iguodala's game that pisses me off. Why is he so consistently bad at it?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Jan 29 at 18:25
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At least he thinks we're better than the Knicks

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 29 at 20:22
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I think Indiana's going to be better than us this season. Don't know about Boston, but it's hard to count them out.

I do expect that most of the pacers players are better at basketball than you or me

But if they don't trade Granger he will hurt them more than he will help them...

But he's their star :)

So why, exactly, do you think the team with the #20 offense and #7 defense is going to be better than the Sixers? I know you think the Sixers are scoring over their head right now, but do you seriously expect them to drop from #5 to well below average? Do you expect the Sixers defense to drop from #1 to #10? Or do you think the Pacers are going to dramatically improve in both areas? Or did you just not really give this any thought?

I'm going to go with the last one, contrary to just pick an argument

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tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 29 at 23:42
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The Sixers have been streaky in the past. Let's wait another 25 games before we start concluding who is the best.

Somewhere on the internet there's a OKC fan blog with a discussion why Harden is not starting over Sefolosha.

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L.A. Steve on Jan 30 at 16:52
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I agree with Brian on his point that this trade isn't going to happen, however, I disagree on the other. I would love to have Amare in a Sixers' uniform. He's just what we need, a big time, go-to scorer, who has a great inside game, and has become a very good mid-range shooter too. True, he's having sub-par season, but the Knicks are in a total state of confusion, so it's understandable.

Amare career numbers are outstanding (22 ppg, and 9 rpg, with a 53 fg%), and he's still, basically, a young man (approximately, 14 months older than Dre). As far as the health issue, I'm not too worried about it. While he had serious knee surgery, (the one which rebuilds cartilage), it appears to have been a total success. Because it occurred several years ago, and he hasn't had any trouble since. In fact his game hasn't change at all, he plays with the same athleticism as he did before the operation. So, like I said, it doesn't concern me. Besides, our owner is a billionaire, if it doesn't bother him, why should it bother me. And if anyone is worried about screwing up our cap, just keep the amnesty open in the unlikely event the knee problem occurs, or he stinks, neither of which I expect to happen. So, in closing, I'd just say, Rod, if it's at all possible, (which it probably isn't), make this deal happen, ASAP!

You might not be worrieda bout his 'health' but no insurance company in the world would touch that contract due to his health issues.

Amare is only good if he's the focus in d'antnoi's system.

Oh yeah - collins would hate his 'defense'


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