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Let's take this a step further. Say this is the deal that gets it done.

Would you do that? Leaving you with a starting five of Deron, Meeks, Thad(?), Brand, Dwight?

Why would Orlando do this? Billy King is gonna offer a million first-rounders plus Brook Lopez and MarShon Brooks, AND will take Hedo off their hands.

Brook Lopez is garbage. I don't think Orlando wants any part of him, nor should they.

And I'm not saying either of those teams would be willing to do make these deals, this would essentially be the result of one or both of them forcing their way to Philly by saying they won't sign an extension elsewhere, which is never going to happen.

The question is whether you, as a Sixers fan, would want the front office to completely blow it to pieces in order to land two superstars. Or if you'd prefer to continue to watch this group grow together.

I see. I wouldn't want the trade, I like our guys minus one or two.

psv reply to Brian on Feb 3 at 1:08

I want nothing to do with Deron Williams. Don't forget what happened in Utah with Jerry Sloan - I could easily see it happening again with Doug Collins.

Besides, does D-Will and Howard and a few warm bodies give you a reasonable chance to get through the Eastern Conference to the Finals? I don't think it does.

Stan reply to Brian on Feb 3 at 8:35

Would you do it if BK wanted you to replace Nocioni with Thad?

Not a finals team, but conceivably you could parlay brand's 18M into another good piece at SF. Maybe PP or another vet?

The deal you list is painful but also avoids taking back dead weight like Hedo. So you have to think it would long term enable you to fill in the blanks to build a champion.

But the sentimental questions remains over whether you want to build a "mercenary chamlion" to which I say yes since mist likely you are selling high.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 3 at 0:30

Mobile typo. should read champion.

I would want to keep the group we have just because I'm a fan of the players, not the management. I don't root for the front office to make good moves, I root for the team to win games.

Wow. Have you checked the results yet?

was just commenting on that.
and I was feeling shy cos I thought I was being sentimental

GM rule #1: never pass up the chance to land all NBA players at the 2 most influential positions in Basketball

Not saying it's the same thing but I'd much rather now see the ceiling of these guys playing together than become the Knicks. If I had to choose between seeing these guys lose in the conference finals or a Dwight and Deron combo lose, I'd pick these guys anyday, they play as hard as anyone and its a beaut to watch

I would not want to see that trade happen at all. And I think the poll results so far show that real, dedicated fans who have been watching for years would agree. Seeing Dwight, Deron, and a bunch of randoms (besides EB, meeks, and the others) playing in a sixers uniform would have no substance whatsoever. This group of guys play so hard for this city and us fans and it would be an absolute shame to blow up a team who is playing absolutely phenomenal basketball. I am a firm believer that this team as currently structured can hang with the big teams in the NBA. The young guys are going to continually get better under Collins and our best player is still in his prime. I honestly don't think this team needs a superstar, I just think they need a big guy who can play some fucking defense. We have been playing LOCKDOWN defense with almost no inside presence at all. Obviously Dwight would be prime in this spot, but at that price I think it would be a lot smarter to get someone who can just play some really good inside defense.

And I think the poll results so far show that real, dedicated fans who have been watching for years would agree.

Real dedicated philly fans would rather win a round (maybe two) in the playoffs than have 2 of the 15 best players in the league and possibly win an NBA title instead?

Good to know

How do you know those two will win us a championship? Who will cover lebron or wade vs the heat? Just because it's Dwight Howard and Deron Williams, who isn't really playing like a superstar at all this year, doesn't guarantee a championship. And how do you know this team isn't good enough to win a championship right now? You're just assuming that the sixers will lose in the second round. Obviously it will be tough, but have some faith in your team.

You say i should have faith - whatever - i've made my opinions clear on what i think of 'faith' - faith ignores the realities of things and how the nba works.

The pistons were not an example, they were an exception (and more talented than this sixers team as well) to a rule. I don't know that howard / deron williams will win a championship, i'm fairly confident this roster won't make an nba finals (if that) without a severe talent influx

Deron Williamd AND Dwight Hoard are more talented than any other single player on this team - period

I know everyone loves the guts and grit and hustle it plays into the bullshit that makes people think Phiilly is a 'blue collar' town...which it isn't, but faith is called faith for a reson - faith ignores facts - faith ignores reality

i don't function on faith - faith to me is for those who are too scared to faith the truth

So you have faith - enjoy that faith - but when it's crushed - remember - that's what faith is for

Da Jruth reply to GoSixers on Feb 3 at 19:08

Respect of opinion granted, but just so disconsolately pitiful.

Your opinion about mine is heard, and ignored, as are most peoples opinions about me - the most important lesson I learned is life is to not really care what people think about me except the few who actually matter.

Talk to me when this team actually wins something significant.

Again - it's like ignoring the 13-4 run last year - people just talk about 3-13 and say 'wow what a turn around' - but this team has had a run before - a pretty damn good one.

Anyone who thinks that all things being equal and healthy that they can take the bulls or heat in a 7 game series is deluded in my opinion...it ignores how the nba works come playoff time

I just don't get how you can watch these players for so many years and then boom trade them away like that and bring in a whole new crop of players.

Also, my faith comes from watching this team play extraordinary basketball, not just because i'm a fan. This is a top team in the nba right now and i just can't justify blowing that up for suerstars. We have no idea whether they will mesh or not, and even if they do it's not like d-will and howard can take over every game. we still need a complete team and i think that getting those 2 would cost way too much.

I agree that this team as currently constructed probably will not win a chamionship this year, but jrue holiday is only 21. evan turner is 23. thad is 23. we have players that still have yet to enter their prime. give it a year or two and the signing of a big guy in the middle and we have a championship caliber team.

faith to me is believing in your team, and i honestly don't understand why you watch every single sixers game religiously if you don't even have faith in your team. what's the fun in watching for you?

Because I'm not emotionally attached to players - emotional attachment leads to irrational decisions.

The only thing I consider for me is will this make the sixers a better team - will it give them a better chance of winning a championship going forward - because it's not the players - it's the team - i'm not an Iguodala fan - I'm a sixer fan - I've liked Iguodala as a player before he was drafted, let out a scream the moment the raptors picked araujo and scared my animals, but when he stops being a sixer, I stop 'caring' about him as a player.

I don't root for players, i root for teams, I don't care HOW they win a championship, I just want to believe they can, and i don't believe this roster can win a championship

Professional sports is a business - I'm not friends with the players - I don't know them - they get paid a lot of money - rightly or wrongly - they're set for life usually when they retire (unless they're bad with their money) - so I don't think it heartless to say i don't 'care' about them - and the organization sure as hell shoudln't - they should ONLY care about making the team better.

I think deron williams and dwight howard and role players make the TEAM better with a better chance of winning a title than riding this 'blue collar' team...that's all. I don't have any emotional attachment to any of em, I don't have emotional attachment to ryan howard, or chase utley or andre iguodala or any eagle player - because honestly - if i think the TEAM can be more competetivie by using THOSE assets to get BETTER assets - that's what i want.

Players are assets - assets of the team - to be used as the team sees fit to build a championship contender.

It's why I hated them keeping andre miller just so they could lose in the first round again - it was a waste of an asset - for the long term future health of the team

Maybe its the picture at the top of tk76's post, but I started thinking about the role Jodie Meeks has played in this team's turnaround (this isn't a Turner v Meeks post, I swear Brian). I'm not saying he is the only part or even the biggest, but possibly an important part of the metamorphosis tk76 speaks of. In the year or two before the date in question, one of the biggest critiques of the Sixers was that we had no outside shooting. When we got Meeks I dont' think we thought he'd be an answer to the problem, but it seems as if he has been. In the horrid November of '10, Meeks wasn't a starter. He saw inconsistent minutes. He averaged 17mpg, since then he has not averaged less than 23mpg in any full month. In that horrible 3-13 stretch the Sixers lost several very close games. Jodie may have been the key piece, a shooter, that this team needed to be able to take it to the next level.

We lost a bunch of close games after the 3-13 start and still are losing close games this year. We just clobbered the Bulls when Meeks played his least minutes of the season.

My answer for the first question in the post is a little too, I don't know, you can't really quantify it, it's just my gut feeling.

It took Collins some time to figure out the strengths/weaknesses of the team, and then it took some more time to come up with a formula that used the strengths to hide the weaknesses. He, and his coaching staff, have to get a ton of credit, but the makeup of the roster is a big reason why as well. The Sixers have talent, in some areas they have more talent than anyone else in the league, but it's not the areas that traditionally equate to success, at least not on their own. Figuring out how to be a successful defensive team from the outside in was truly a marvel. I'm still not exactly sure how they've done it. Last season, they did it by hanging their perimeter players out to dry on pick-and-rolls. It was Jrue vs. a PG and a big man, and the results weren't pretty. This year, Jrue has gotten much better at playing the P&R, and the coaches have figured out how to use the bigs without (a) opening up the lane or (b) leaving three point shooters wide open. It's like they've figured out how to do the impossible, there's no tradeoffs.

I got a bit sidetracked there for a second, but when I talk about the makeup of the roster, I don't just mean skills, I mean actual people. The guys on this team truly care about winning more than individual accomplishments. That's a rare thing, and it's allowed Collins to take this roster with flat talent, and move his pieces around the chess board from day one. It's allowed the five guys on the floor, whoever they are, to defer to the hot hand. To never worry about "getting theirs."

They've had a few small flareups. Turner "I just want to play", Lou pouting on the bench when he was pulled in crunch time, but those were quickly squashed. Collins got these guys to buy in, the guys are smart and willing enough to accept their roles and execute the strategies and priorities the coaches have devised and laid out for them.

If you take a step back and think about it, their offense is kept afloat by one thing. They don't turn the ball over. Period. Their turnover rate right now is 11%. That's three percent better than league-average. To break this down further, the Sixers score roughly 1.1 points per non-turnover possession. If they had a league-average turnover rate, they would have scored 73 fewer points so far this season. 73 fewer points spread over their 22 games may not sound like a whole lot, but it would drop their OFR from 106.7 (6th in the league) to 103.5 (which would be 14th in the league).

Sometimes the results of the strategy of this obsession with taking care of the basketball may be less than visually appealing (a 20-foot jumper over a risky interior pass, for example), but it works when you can take care of the ball like this.

Anyway, I'm rambling now, but basically I think it boils down to really, really smart coaching on the macro level and a great group of guys who believe in their coach and put the team before themselves.

The Sixers players definitely put team before themselves more than any other NBA squad.

ItAintEZ on Feb 3 at 6:35

Is there any way to find out what officiating crew is doing the game vs. Miami. For some reason this feels like it could be a good old fashioned Joey Crawford screw job.

Spencer for hire on Feb 3 at 7:45

Dwight is getting on my nerves this year and that is clouding my reasoning a bit, I admit to that. I want guys added that fit a need and are quality people. Examples [R.Allen,P.Milsap] Guys who are ready to step in and contribute and guys who don't need so many touches.

To me Dwight isn't a guarantee of a championship, especially if the cupboard is left bare in acquiring him. Get me two guys at Iggy's level without having to trade our current core and I will take my chances.

By the time the playoffs end we will have a better feel for this teams direction and Thorn may make his move this summer. And after last years draft maybe we get lucky with our 23rd pick ? and get our defensive big [Ezeli] and keep on building.

Spencer for hire reply to Spencer for hire on Feb 3 at 7:53

Brian, a question for you; If they amnesty Elton, how does that effect this team?

They need to find a way to trade for Derrick Favors. I believe that under Collins his game would really take off.

The ultimate goal is to win a championship isn't it ?
I would absolutely blow it all up to land Deron and Dwight.
I'm shocked that any of you would feel differently. I do love the current team, but with Collins coaching I could see Dwight reaching Hakeem/Shaq level and Williams being the best PG in the league, bar none. Sixers would be at the top of ESPN every day.
Every major free agent would want to come here to play with these guys(for far less money) and the Sixers within a year or two would be championship contenders for the next 5-7 years. Can even the most optimistic fan say that right now ? Be real.

bebopdeluxe reply to Gdog on Feb 3 at 10:27

Yes. I could say that.

Give me an example - at least, so far - of a team that completely gutted itself for two guys and a bunch of JACK that won a title? Boston gave up a lot for Garnett and Allen...but they still had Pierce and Rondo. Giving up virtually all of the rest of our assets for two guys doesn't do a lot for me...especially when you consider that Collins only probably has 2-3 more years left in the tank.

The other thing I do worry about is Collins and Williams...both are pretty strong-willed guys...Collins is going to DEMAND that Williams play a certain way, and I don't know - based on how Williams was with Sloan - if he is just going to happily buy in...especially after he gets maxed out.

bebopdeluxe on Feb 3 at 9:03

As much as I like the idea of landing Howard, I wouldn't trade the farm for him...and I absolutely would not gut the team for Howard/Williams...the farthest I would go is to give up a piece or two and, say, two #1's for Howard (something like Brand, Hawes, Turner and picks)...

If we can't get him this summer - either as a FA or on a discounted S&T deal, then we keep going to war with what we have. As others have been saying lately, perhaps the way we win a CHIP isn't so much us acquiring a superstar as much as making other team's superstars ordinary when they play us (like we did Wednesday night), and then beat them with superior defense and team play.

I think from an objective standpoint Gdog is 100% correct.

The poll results show why we as fans should not be running the franchise, and how the GM needs to be objective. I agree with everyone that it is more rewarding to see a team grow before our eyes. And Philly fans love the Rocky, David vs Goliath, Rudy, Hoosier story as much as anyone.

But honestly, if you ask someone objectively. isn't the clear choice to get a team with:

1. Dwight, the best defensive force and best center in his prime for 5 years.

2. Deron, a complete elite PG in his prime who is better than anyone at playing off of a great big... for 5 years.

3. Coach Collins/Curry. A coach who can take the remaining flawed pieces and build a system that maximizes them. A guy who can make his team buy in and give 100%.

4. No "bad contracts."

5. Brand, who is both a valuable vet pretense and a guy you can either amnesty or maybe trade to bring back a quality piece (maybe a quality player on a bloated contract.)

6. Thad- the ultimate high energy guy who can either be plugged in as a starter next to Dwight or anchor your bench by bringing that energy to your "Night Shift."

or... our current Sixers.


Was anyone watching TNT before the Bulls/Knicks game? They were talking Eastern Conference All-Stars. Almost every person on there had AI high on there list followed by Jrue. Barkley was even talking up Lou Williams. That would give this team at least two all-stars this year. When is the last time that happened.

Brian makes a good point about this team's success via low turnovers.

It sort of reminds me of how Larry Brown effects rapid reclemation jobs... but more aesthetically pleasing.

When LB takes over he brings in low upside vets and has them take the air out of the ball. LB installs a low risk offense that is focused on always having proper floor balance so that you can get back on defense. It also drags out possessions to shorten the game and hopefully boar the opponent into mistakes.

Soemhow Collins manages to get the same mistake free ball but using young, energetic players in an offense that is actually quite enjoyable to watch (frequent cuts/passes versus LB's isolations.)

On why we are better: I don't think this roster is overachieving, just realizing its potential. That's in large part due to Collins, but it's also just that we were really young. Youth + talent + great coaching = progress.

On trades: I like what we have at point guard. No question Williams is better offensively than Jrue right now. But Holiday is still so young, has a ton of potential, and is already a better defender than Williams. Add to that Williams' attitude and I do not make that trade.

Diwght's a tougher call. I would give up Spence (and one of our young bigs if that helped), Dre or ET, Thad or Lou, and picks to eternity. If you don't hold on to some talent in the trade there is no reason for Dwight to stick around. Resulting lineup:

Dwight/Brand/ET or Dre/Jodie/Jrue with Thad/Lou off the bench

I doubt Orlando makes this trade. Someone will get desperate and offer more than this. But I would not.

I don't remember who suggested it, but if there is a way to poach Ray Allen, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Good work tk - i had some thoughts about writing something comparing 16 games and 16 games but never materialized due to a bunch of stuff going on.

Then again, this is the same team that had a 13-4 run last year (in january feb no less) so though everyone focuses on the 3-13 start last year, a run like this was in them last year too

Dwight seems like he could fit right in as a chemistry guy with this team once his situation is settled, as opposed to Deron Williams...but nobody has posted the trade Simmons came up with yesterday here yet??


Have you ever played the game, "What's the goofiest Howard trade Otis Smith can make that actually makes total sense on paper and would be kind of cool?" and banned Oklahoma City (Perkins, Ibaka and Harden for Howard) from being involved? Here's my vote: Howard, Hedo Turkoglu's contract atrocity ($34.8 million through 2014) and the Duhon/Richardson cap-cloggers for Elton Brand (expires next year), Evan Turner, Andres Nocioni's Expiring Contract, Spencer Hawes and no. 1 picks in 2012 and 2014. Howard, Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Lou Williams, Jrue Holiday, Nikola Vucevic, Jodie Meeks … now that's a potential rebounding/defense/transition menace!"


^ as much as it's been fun to watch ET grow and Brand show what he has left in the tank this season...you HAVE to make that move if it's available, don't you? Not only does it set up a fantastic Sixer team for however long you lock up DH12, it also cockblocks the Nets/Knicks/Boston/Lakers from getting him and the Sixers would OWN the headlines in this city like the Phils did after getting Halladay...without the stupid trading away Cliff Lee at the same time, which a deal of Jrue for Deron just might be...

bebopdeluxe reply to das411 on Feb 3 at 10:15

That's funny...I didn't even see that article, and the trade he pitched was, in essence, the trade that I mentioned (with additional salary)...

I would have a chubby from here to Towanda if we could do that.

tk76 reply to das411 on Feb 3 at 10:26

It was discussed a bit the other day. It would be a good trade for the Sixers despite having to take on Hedo and his bad contract.

I asked the before whether you start Hedo and move Iggy to SG or whether you play Hedo off the bench and continue to start Meeks? Also, do you start Thad?

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Feb 3 at 10:29

Couldn't they just amnesty Hedo?

No - the sixers can not amnesty Hedo

Can't amnesty a player you traded for

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Feb 3 at 10:38



I believe the way it works is that you can only amnesty players who were on your roster and under contract before the new CBA was signed - which limits it to Elton, Iguodala, Lou, Nocioni, Jrue and Turner (I think) for the sixers.

There was some clarification on the 'renegotiation' thing the other day that I saw that I hadn't seen before having to do with the new contract length can't be longer than the original (i.e if you're on a 4 year deal and renegotiate after 2 years, the new deal can't be more than 4 years, I think)

Jerry West wouldn't give in to Dwight, or any superstar who 'demanded' a trade

He cited that as the primary reason he wouldn't comply with a superstar's trade demands. And he also said he wouldn't want a player on his team who didn't want to be there and wouldn't want many of the players that would come back in a deal for a high-salaried superstar. "If I were an executive on a team where a player says he's going to leave, let him leave," West said on 710 ESPN's Max and Marcellus show earlier Thursday. "It would be better than saddling yourself with a bunch of players that are not going to fit in to what you're trying to do -- high-salaried players, in many cases overpaid players by today's standards, that would burden you going forward. "I'd almost rather start over again myself. You're not going to replace that player, but there's an enormous penalty there and it looks like to me like the inmates are running the asylum if you let that happen."

Stan reply to GoSixers on Feb 3 at 9:53

Utah did pretty good for themselves when they unloaded Deron, who didn't want to be there.

Mosghov, Chandler, and Dano are much better than nothing.

Eric Gordon and Minny's pick is better than nothing.

As i understand it he was referring to the kind of trade the Hornets were offered from the Lakers and Rockets. And the kind of offer the Magic will receive for Howard from the Lakers.

Any rebuilding team will accept draft picks, preferably high end draft picks. There is no baggage with them and lots of promise.

I would make this trade. Howard and Deron are on the same caliber as Wade and Lebron. This isn't the same situation in which the Knicks were in.
We would still have Thad, we would still have Brand who is an expiring next year. It's definately worth the risk. As good as this team is it will never make it to the Finals.

Ok so i voted for keep the team, but i view this a lot differently. I am not against trading some of the players for Howard or Deron Williams. The reason i wouldn't directly do a trade like that because completely gutting the team and getting Howard and Williams doesn't guarantee you that you will actually have a better team than this current one. I am a firm believer that it takes a well assembled team to win and there is no proof that the remaining team will be any good.

That's why i'd prefer a cautious approach where i would try to get that missing piece without sacrificing too much of the current core.

Stars without a team mean nothing, just ask the Knicks. The only thing they might accomplish by doing that is a short term boost in attendance and maybe become an intriguing destination for other stars.

The Celtics have been mentioned but the Celtics didn't exactly blow it up. They kept their most important players and added two more players that on paper were a great fit next to their own guys. Now if you can get Howard and/or Deron Williams and keep some reasonable combination of Holiday/Turner/Iguodala/Young/Williams and maybe even some of the other guys Hawes/Vucevic/Meeks/Brand you do it. But it's unlikely they will be able to do that with the current assets.

For example if you can get Howard and keep holiday, Iguodala and Young you do it. A lineup of Holiday/Meeks/Iguodala/Young/Howard is a contender, because it won't completely change their current team, while fixing their biggest weakness with the best player at the position.

Stan reply to Xsago on Feb 3 at 11:23

The problem is- who would Orlando want other than Jrue, Iguodala and Young? We don't have the same luxury of having an overhyped Al Jefferson and Gerland Green.

Hah, Gerald Green, as in 'the next TMac." Oh where have you gone Gerald Green. Celtics fans turn their lonely eyes to you...

Last time i checked we have a few guys on their way to be overhyped i.e. Hawes, Lou Williams, even Vucevic, not to mention a former No.2 pick.

Anyway i am not saying that you need to keep everyone but you need to keep the important parts. I'd be willing to trade one of Iguodala or Turner to go along with Lou, Hawes, picks and expirings.

I agree. I would only add that Holiday shouldn't be traded at all. Not untouchable, but removing him is essentially removing the identity of the team. To attempt to improve, however, someone is eventually going to have to go, for better or worse.

Stan reply to Xsago on Feb 3 at 12:53

Al Jefferson was considered to be a future franchise player, Green had a lot of "potential". I don't think the general consesus of Lou, Hawes and Vucevic is that they are going to be franchise players.

Limiting turnovers through emphasis; webbing parts into alert, cohesive D; subordinating egos for team goal of Ws with one game at a time approach; egging more out of players than ever before (in a whole sense) through role definition & encouragement; coping winningly at temporary loss of 2 bigs = inspiring, galvanizing head coach (& staff), a picture of excellence to date. What a third hire by Stefanski!

Despite a lot of talk that the Sixers haven't beat anyone yet, there are only 3 teams in the league that have a decidedly better record than the Sixers vs .500+ opponents and only one of them (Miami - 8-3) is in the East. East opponents like Chicago (6-5), Indiana (6-4), Atlanta (3-7), Orlando (4-7) and Boston (3-6) have similar or worse records against the good teams.

A leavening consideration is Sixers' 14-8 HOME/AWAY advantage so far. 12-2 at HOME, 4-4 AWAY. Will enemy arenas stem momentum? Table turns in Feb (7 of 8 on road, 2/11 to 2/28).

the road record is deceptive, imo. Of the four losses, you've got the third night of a back-to-back-to-back in NY against a rested Knicks team w/out Hawes. You've also got the second night of a back-to-back in Miami against a rested Heat team w/out Hawes in which Vucevic got hurt in a tight game.

Even one of their wins on the road came in a really tough circumstance, second night of a b2b in Oakland against a rested Warriors team.

Good points about 2 road losses, but flip it and equally weigh Wachovia visitor circumstances for picture balance on great start. Believer/skeptic? ... I'm "on the see-saw", expecting a hard February bump due to schedule, improbability of sustaining such high-pitch play. This can't last. Or can it?

ORL and DEN were both the second night of b2b's when they came in. Don't think the Sixers had an advantage on any others. Sacto came in rested, the Sixers were in the middle of a b2b2b, so that one went the other way.

I think its fair to say that the current record can be interpreted in various ways.

What we really need is to see where this team is in 1 month. We should have a good handle on this team by the All-Star break and trade deadline. But obviously these last 2 wins have everyone dreaming bigger than ever befoer.

Cholo reply to Dollar Bill on Feb 3 at 11:53

Project 43 wins..

The poll results are really amazing. If we had taken this poll even a couple of weeks ago I think we would've seen at least a 50/50 split.

raro reply to Brian on Feb 3 at 12:12

I voted for keeping the group together as well, but still found the results surprising. Acknowledging that Deron + Dwight give us a better chance of winning a title, the current group of players are simply more likable and fun to watch. I would think Denver fans feel the same way.

I don't think "star stacking" is a viable route for the 76ers as they are currently consructed.

The Celtics already had Pierce.
The Heat already had Wade.

They need to be patient and only make a move when they are one piece away. I don't care how good Deron and Howard are, it will take them a few years to be legit contenders while their bench comes together and complimentary starters are found. After that, do they want to spend the next three or four years battling the Heat, Bulls, or possibly both in the playoffs? Probably not, weariness will take its toll.

The strength of the roster is really them being young and good enough to be legit for a long time with one major roster addition and being financially capable of making that move without giving anything up.

Let Lou walk and increase Turner's role
Replace Meeks with Courtney Lee
Or replace Lou/Meeks with Ray Allen or O.J. Mayo
Give Jrue a Mike Conley-esque contract
Solve the PF/C dilemma. Bring in an FA or make a trade, either way you have the keep/cut flexibility of Brand's contract. Do not commit to Hawes (I don't think Collins/Thorn are sold on his long-term viablity as a starter).

Holiday/Allen (expiring/1y6M?)/Iguodala/Brand (expiring)/Vucevic

Young/Turner/1st rounder/Lavoy (the new Battie) as the bench. Maybe the MEM 2nd rounder as a back up point.

Elite? No. But very competitive and a lot of movable pieces if nothing major goes through in the offseason.

Also, as far as Brand's contract is concerned, I don't think it would be a terrible idea to amnesty him, trade a prospect/draft pick, and absorb a bad contract if it meant moving up to draft an elite big man in the draft. If we can't count on anyone finding Philadelphia appealing, a young, extremely talented rookie should suffice.

Stan reply to Cin on Feb 3 at 12:41

The Celtics had Peirce along with Rondo and Perkins. If you took away Perkins you don't have a championship team. Boston would have won in 10' if Perkins hadn't been injured.

Brian posted the hypothetical trade somewhere.

IIRC the Sxier would be left with:


Bench: Voose, Hawes?, Allan

So they would need to find a bench scorer (attainable) and maybe a starting SF to move Thad to the bench.

Their salary would be:
Howard + Williams 36M
Young 8M
Brackins+ Voose 3M
47M before Brand and RFA Meeks

That leaves them 23M to play with in the form of trading Brand's 18M expiring towards players under 18M of long term contracts that fit (and maybe are a bit overpaid so teams want to move them.)

So a lot depends o0n what you are getting back using that 18M. But that is a fair amount of flexibility as compared with what the heat had to work with.

For example, say they move Brand to GS becasue they want to get out from David Lee's contract without having to amnesty him (and be stuck actually paying some money if not tax.)

Brand for David Lee + Dorrell Wright works. Then you resin Meeks to a small number and grab an old scoring guard (like how the Clippers got Billups.)

You have:

David Lee/Thad/Lavoy

I believe that is a very legit contender after that 1 trade.

And hopefully they wouldn't blow their remaining money on Mike Miller.

It all depends on what you can get back for Brand. That 18M has to be invested in important players. They players can be flawed sicne Howard and Deron will cover some imperfections- but they have to work for that team and you only get one shot at it.

bebopdeluxe on Feb 3 at 12:21

The strength of the roster is really them being young and good enough to be legit for a long time with one major roster addition and being financially capable of making that move without giving anything up.


Last year I would have placed the Sxiers as bottom 5 in the NBA in terms of 5 year franchise outlook. The vast majroity of teams were either in a better "win now" position or were in a better position to land a superstar through the draft or a trade, while the Sixers were capped out for another 2 years and stuck in mediocrity.

Well, 1 year later the Sixers seem much better positioned to become a truly elite team in the coming years- and even if they don't they still will be a very good and entertaining/relevant team that is in position to make some interesting moves.

i watch basketball on Feb 3 at 13:01

If we learned something from the knicks, wouldn't it be smart not to give away all your young talent for someone who you could potentially sign in 3 months? If they found a way to trade for deron and then continue winning, and win at least one round of playoffs, wouldn't that put the sixers at the top of dwights list. We'd be over new jersey and dallas because we would have the point guard he wants to play with. And who else has the cap room, star player, and young talent that the sixers would have.

If you could trade turner, jrue, allen, noc, brackins, and a first rounder for deron, I think the sixers would have a great lineup to keep winning this year. Upgrade at point guard and not destorying the bench (still have lou, thad, and vuc). Then if lou doesn't pick up his player option (fairly likely), amnesty brand, and you'd have enough room to pay for howard I believe. The sixers would be at 42.6 mill salary, enough room to fit the 15.5 first year of dwights max contract.

I'm pretty sure the first year of Dwight's max contract would be less than that if he's signing as a FA.

I think he would start at about 18M. He is on his second max deal and an 8 year vet so can get a pretty big max deal.

I don't think he can w/out bird rights.

I quickly looked it up. It did not really change from the old CBA. So the Max for a 8-9 year vet is the great of 30% of the cap or 16.3M. This means the starting salary wuld be a bit over 17M.

Can you remember the last max player who signed w/out using bird rights?

No, but Lebron took less than the max.

He was signed using Bird rights, as was Bosh.

i watch basketball on Feb 3 at 13:02

If we learned something from the knicks, wouldn't it be smart not to give away all your young talent for someone who you could potentially sign in 3 months? If they found a way to trade for deron and then continue winning, and win at least one round of playoffs, wouldn't that put the sixers at the top of dwights list. We'd be over new jersey and dallas because we would have the point guard he wants to play with. And who else has the cap room, star player, and young talent that the sixers would have.

If you could trade turner, jrue, allen, noc, brackins, and a first rounder for deron, I think the sixers would have a great lineup to keep winning this year. Upgrade at point guard and not destorying the bench (still have lou, thad, and vuc). Then if lou doesn't pick up his player option (fairly likely), amnesty brand, and you'd have enough room to pay for howard I believe. The sixers would be at 42.6 mill salary, enough room to fit the 15.5 first year of dwights max contract.

By the way, someone sent me an email this morning and brought up a really good point.

What if Brand exercises his player option with the intention of re-signing with the Sixers, like Richard Jefferson did with the Spurs.

He's owed $18M for next year. What if he becomes a free agent, then quickly re-signs for 4 years, $20M with a team option for the fourth year with a buy out?

He'd still be getting the money, but he'd allow the Sixers to open up the cap space without using the amnesty on him, he stays here for the rest of his career, and he instantly becomes a fan favorite, kind of paying the franchise back for the year lost to injury.

That certainly would be generous on his part- but not sure why he does that. It would have to be at a higher number for it to make financial sense.

I guess we could call it the "Philly Min."

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Feb 3 at 14:45


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