DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Sixers' Defense vs. the Lakers

41.9 PER for Lou! That's insane.

Great stuff, who did you Goudelock's three to?

Statman reply to Brian on Feb 7 at 19:00

His three went to Meeks, who was late rotating to him after a double-team on Kobe.

Heh, so Voose and Hawes gave up 12 offensive boards in 57 minutes. Honestly, I thought the total would've been higher.

It's a funny chicken/egg thing. If you discount the rebounding, they played a very good defensive game, but it can also be said they couldn't have performed as well in rotations and traps w/out being out of position. Though my eyes tell me Hawes' problem on at least a handful of those had little to do with why he didn't get the defensive boards, it was an effort/strength problem more than anything.

At the end of the day, there really isn't a worse team in the NBA for the Sixers to match up against. Having one of Bynum/Gasol is probably too much for their front court players to handle, let alone both, let alone both of them playing 36+ minutes. To have all of your worst nightmares come true and still come out with the win is really something to be proud of, even if the rebounding effort was not.

Dwight reply to Brian on Feb 7 at 18:22

Defensive rebounding definitely counts as a part of defense. You're correct that the Sixers aggressive rotations on Kobe and double teams on Bynum had a lot to do with the rebound deficit.

Another part of it was Brand's absence. People overlook his defensive rebounding ability. His rebounding is one of the main reasons why we give up fewer points when he is in the lineup.

Why do you think Allen didn't play more? He seems to be stronger than both Hawes and Voose. I thought he was doing a better job boxing out when he was in the game, and the numbers in the reverse box score bear that out. Hawes gave up .5 rebounds per minute played, Voose .44, but Allen .28.

He picked up a couple early fouls, right? I don't think he's got Collins' trust yet, at least not as much as the other two guys. A couple times I've wondered why he didn't get the call, but I've also been proven wrong more than a couple times when Lou has caught fire, or Meeks has hit a couple of threes, so who knows. Collins goes w/ his gut a lot of the time.

Dwight reply to JayJ on Feb 7 at 18:25

I think it has to do with conditioning. Allen was known at Temple to be less effective when playing big minutes. Collins knows this and wants to ease him into an NBA schedule where he has to play every other night.

I guess the two fouls explain low minutes in the first half, but not the second. I just thought we missed Brand on the boards last night, and Allen would have helped fill that gap a bit more than extra minutes for Voose and Hawes. I do think DC goes with his gut, and i'll take his gut over my brains any day.

This post is dedicated to GoSixers:

Dalembert was benched last night because he wasn't playing hard.


Stan reply to Dwight on Feb 7 at 18:24

"Be careful, Samuel. McHale will include you in some lopsided trade to benefit his Celtics if you don’t behave."


Favorite defensive play of the year thus far?

Brand's block on Howard?
Lou's block on Haslem?
Andre forcing a TO on Melo late in the game?
ET forcing Kobe to jack up a 3 pointer?
Andre's block on Lebron's heave?
Meeks' steal/hustle from yesterday?

I'd go with
1) Brand on Howard (symbolic, also)
2) Lou on Haslem (cuz of height difference)
3) the total team effort ending with Turner deflecting the ball on an opponent while getting back on defense (home vs.. Chi? not sure, it was 3-4 games ago, at least 3 of our guys involved)
4) Meex dive from last night, for the quickness of the run and the ability to call time out

Good question.
Brand's block on Howard was by far my favorite. Not to mention, the most shocking.

Tom Moore on Feb 7 at 20:31

Sixers story (with Holiday, Collins videos): Sound decisions are paying off:


Read your blog everyday and follow during every game. Went to Peekskill high school in ny with Elton he was the nicest guy ever. could you just tell me what per stands for I didn't follow that stat

It stands for Player Efficiency Rating. It was developed by John Hollinger (from ESPN) as a catch-all stat, one number where 15.0 is supposed to represent the average player so you can quickly determine the relative production of a player. It's flawed in a lot of ways, but at least widely recognized because of Hollinger's high-profile position.

Here's a quick description from Hollinger himself.

My main problem w/ the stat is that it over inflates the value of guys who take a ton of shots without penalizing them enough if they score inefficiently.

Anxiously awaiting your DeMarcus Cousins update, Tray.

Stan reply to Brian on Feb 7 at 22:53

His +/- was +14, he had a double double, and he scared off Love from showing up to the game

Actually, I expect he'll ignore Cousins altogether and instead focus his nightly recap on Bismack.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 8 at 0:22

I was just coming here to see what you had to say about those Celtics and Pacers wins. Yeah, Cousins had a bad night offensively and was limited by foul trouble; he also had 11 boards in 24 minutes, which is really great. 2nd in the league in offensive rebound rate, fourth in defensive rate, third in total. Bismack, as you alluded to, was a huge non-factor in his second start. Not sure how someone of his size and athleticism gets 2 rebounds. Pekovic continues to play really well, and Monta had 30 at the half and 40 five minutes into the third. Love, of course, sits two games for accidentally looking at a player's head before stomping on it.

Turtle Bay reply to Tray on Feb 8 at 0:29

Cousins is probably pissed that he didn't think of the head-stomp before Love did. It seems like just the move he would do... on his coach.

I should have a comment on the Celts beating the Bobcats at home? Or should I have a comment on the Pacers blowing an 11-point lead at home only to have the Jazz cough the game up? Not sure which was more impressive.

If Odom was still on the Lakers they kill kill kill the Sixers in that game though...still don't know why they made that trade but thank for doing it!

Stan reply to das411 on Feb 8 at 9:40

I didn't get it either. Maybe it had to do with salary or the luxury tax. I'm too lazy to find out if trading Odom had an effect on their tax.

Nice article about Lavoy from the Daily News, including LouWill kinda making him his bitch:


I wanna see how they perform with both Hawes and Voose in the game together. That size lineup is something that this team hasn't played in a while.

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long to see it. Doesn't look good as far as Hawes playing tomorrow night.

As Sean O`Connor points out, Doug made a great late-game decision in bringing in Turner to cover Gasol on an inbound play. Turner ended up on Kobe after the switch.


That was really late, right. When the Lakers needed a three?

Phil reply to Brian on Feb 8 at 5:41

95-90, 10 seconds to go.

Jrue - Fisher
Lou - World Peace (inbounding)
Dre - Kobe
Turner - Gasol
Hawes - Bynum

Kobe goes around Gasol and sets a pick. Gasol steps back to get the inbound pass. Iggy and Turner need to switch.


ha...Great Lavoy article.."Lavoy, this chicken isn't going to cut itself."

Anyway--it looked to me that Voose did a better job covering Bynam one one one than Hawes. He seemed like he wasnt being pushed around as much. They both gave up oints but Voose seemed to have a little more strngth holding his position.

When do they make the announcement on who were selected as the reserves for the all star team?

Ballots of coaches were due Monday afternoon, announcement of results sometime tomorrow.

Crossing your fingers Iguodala doesn't make it?

No. Whatever will be will be. Or as early Laker fan Doris Day says, Que Sera Sera.

I wouldn't mind if none make it. Would be the ultimate testament to team play. Andre, Lou, Thad, Jrue (The Stable) and rotating melange of bigs have propelled Sixers to fast start, in concert.

In reality, it depends which way Doug politicked - Lou or Andre. Guy delivers a hell of a stump speech; wonderful gladhander. AS selection/game scoring lean says Lou, dues paying says Andre.

Hollinger stats - NBA player efficiency rankings:

Lou Williams #18
Spencer Hawes #30
Thadeus Young #48
Andre Iguodala #55
Nikola Vucevic #65
Lavoy Allen #67
Elton Brand #82
Evan Turner #137
Jrue Holiday #139
Jodie Meeks #161
Tony Battie #272

PER is a wonderful statistic, if you don't care about defense, which if you read ESPN articles and chats, you'll see that they don't.

Like most statistics it's flawed, the flaws in PER are more prevalent than other flaws, but ESPN promotes it because it's theirs and they like to be able to present the one stat to rule them all.

Which player performance measurement/formula do you see as being most accurate or reliable in assessment of overall play?


There is no 'single' formula in basketball, hell there's no one in baseball and baseball is hella simpler to isolate players in than basketball.

Looking for the GUT of basketball is a fools errand, but busting out per as 'the number' allows the simpletons and fools to think they have a clue.

Somewhere out there, brian knows where, is a site that measures your per AND your 'defensive' per.

Hell I find this page


More useful than PER

Per is for dilettantes and dabblers who don't want to think

There is a defensive version of PER, Opponent Production at 82games.com. So PER differential is a better measure of overall impact (offensive and defensive). If PER biases toward frequent shooters and rebounders, then Opponent Production will do the same. The only misleading aspect about Opponent Production is that it penalizes those who defend the best opponents (e.g., Iguodala) while rewarding those who defend weaker opponents (e.g., Lou).

So I took the list of the top 60 in PER at ESPN (call this PER1), added another 8 players who are considered all-star candidates who were outside the top 60 (e.g., Joe Johnson, Deng, Stoudemire), then went to 82games.com and tabulated their Production (call this PER2) Opponent Production (OPP), and Production Differential (PDIF).

PER2 ratings are slightly different than PER1, partly because 82games.com is about a week out of date: Hawes #12, Lou #14, Iguodala #48t, Thad #53. In OPP, though, Iguodala is #1 in the entire list (as he was last year), Lou #2 (a lot of bad backup point guards!), Thad #56, Hawes #65. In PDIF, Lou is #4, Iguodala #10, Hawes #53, Thad #59. The only small forwards ahead of Iguodala in PDIF are LeBron and Durant.

Taking defense into account, Iguodala absolutely deserves to go to the All-Star game, and it seems about 80% of national writers agree.

See - I knew someone knew where to find it - i couldn't find it.

Seems like a good time to say au revoir though


Just go to any team's main page on 82games.com and look at the "Production" columns. The Sixer page is here.

Turtle Bay reply to Statman on Feb 8 at 18:28

Pretty impressive that the top 10 Sixers all have positive "production" numbers. I wonder how many teams can say that.

Statman, just wanted to say that I always enjoy your posts and I really like the reverse box score format, so thanks for putting in the work..

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment