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The Turner Experience

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jswigga on Mar 13 at 6:02
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awesome piece on Turner's rise to the challenge.
So great to see him becoming the player everyone knew he could be.

Hopefully he can sustain this rise as the season progresses.
It's looking fugly good

Honestly in his first game as a Sixer against Miami last season I was expecting him to play like this. Not immediately, but I didn't foresee it taking 1.5 years.

Well I'm glad anyway. Hope this is a sign of things to come.

Everyone should go back and read your comments after the Memphis loss last month. Some of you really owe Turner an apology.

Well if this wasnt completely asinine.

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bebopdeluxe reply to KellyDad on Mar 13 at 10:18
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No need for "I told you so's"... the people who were slagging Turner (and busting the balls of the reglars who were Turner "apologists") know who they are. Brian said - right at the top - that he did this as much as anybody on this board, and this post is as complete a " mea culpa" as anybody could expect. Heck, even Eddie's Heady has said some micely supportive things about Turner in the last couple of game threads (although I am not holding my breath waiting for a collective "my bad" from him).

The bottom line is we are all Sixers fans, and while it might be interesting on some level to really understand the whole back-story here about what happened with Turner, I am more focused on what this means for the team MOVING FORWARD. As a guy who has been a fan of this team for almost 40 years, I think that Evan Turner is the most exciting player to watch on this team since Iverson's prime years, and I look forward to watching JTI grow together.

Nice writeup, Brian.

bebop...thanks for saying what I've been thinking-ET has made the Sixers more exciting in the last three games than they've been since the Iverson prime of, oh 99-03. He feels like a star to me, and saying that doesn't involve rose colored projections of his development as it does with jrue.

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Raffaele on Mar 13 at 7:01
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Great piece.

Sure Turner (and the 76ers) have been pleasant to watch in the past three games. Always liked Turner and was very disappointed (with him mostly) for is inconsistent play in the past couple of months.

Let's hope he can keep this level (even a bit lower than that). As Statman pointed out in one comment I'm curious to see how he'd react when he will have a rough start of a game: the "pre-explosion" Turner was inclined to get discouraged if the first few shots weren't falling.

Also, I am curious to see how this "new" Turner would react in the final minutes of a close game.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Raffaele on Mar 13 at 11:34
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Well, he certainly had a rough night shooting the ball in Milwaukee...and he still had 12 rebounds. I think that he has enough in his toolbox that, even when his shot is not falling, he will find ways to make a positive impact. I just don't want to become Iverson-like in the sense that, if his shot is not falling, he keeps taking increasingly-difficult/bad shots in an effort to "get going". Most of the shots he took in Milwaukee were good ones that just didn't drop.

GoSixers and/or Jeff, just pick one name.

I promise we're not the same person. Declaring an apology to a basketball player for playing badly a month ago? You're right, that wasnt arrogant at all.

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ugh reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 18:42
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Oh I don't really care about that post. You just seem to have the exact same views down to the words used (GoSixers uses the word "asinine" about 10 times every comment thread - I think it's the only vocabulary word he knows), so I thought you were the same person.

It's a fairly common word.

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GoSixers reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 20:38
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And often very apt (in my opinion of course) I mean if people are allowed to repeat the same opinion over and over why not use the same word over and over, don't want to blind the populous with my pervasive loquaciousness or pedantic demagoguery.

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ugh reply to GoSixers on Mar 14 at 17:48
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touche

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GoSixers reply to ugh on Mar 14 at 17:54
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Sorry, the only proper way to use that word is in the phrase touché pussy cat.

Much like the only poper way to use the word hipster is to follow it with the word douche or douchebag

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Spencer for hire on Mar 13 at 7:49
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Well written Brian; It would of been a crime to spend a #2 pick on a player and not allow him to succeed in the role he was good at in college. It would of been like L.Brown turning A.I. into a pass first p.g. .

We finally drafted a Batman and they tried to turn him into Robin. L.Brown saw how Iverson got worn down attacking from the top of the key and put him on the wing and it worked to perfection.

I expect Collins to adjust Hawes' game accordingly. I remember in college Hawes being a pretty good corner shooter and a move to either baseline like Vuce does now may keep things open for Evan. It is time for Hawes to become a finisher as much as a facillitator.

I like this post Brian. Nice job.

I don't think we should get carried away. Turners effectiveness basically comes down to whether or not he's hitting that midrange jumper. Since he's been starting that shot is falling so he has been way more aggressive overall. The true test will be how he plays if it's not falling.

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CSTH reply to mike on Mar 13 at 8:56
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He's still going to rebound like a beast and push the ball up the court.

Brian hit the nail on the head when he talked about the increase in overall aggression that our rebounders are showing. The other thing i love is that our run the court mentality is now on a different level. If Turner can remain single-minded in his rebound and push the ball mentality, Jrue and Iggy will look to do it even more as well. I am interested to see if Turner rubs off on Jrue and Iggy and they become rebounding fast break machines as well.

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thewhettingstone on Mar 13 at 9:00
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I think DC telling Turner that he will be in the starting line-up for the rest of the year really made the difference for his level of play. He finally got that vote of confidence from his coach; I think that's all he wanted/needed. In the game against the Bucks he was playing nervous and for the most part playing not to fail. Then Doug came out and said all that stuff about Evan playing the point and finishing up the year in his starting role, and then Turner went out and had a game against Boston. I think the Sixers absolutely have their superstar now. He's been there for a while, riding the pine for the most part, but whatever, things come together how they do.

Superstars make shots with defenses geared to 'em. Turner has yet to cross that threshhold, or even seen it. He's playin' boldly for now; I'm not sold.

His shot remains a sticking point, as is his immature mentality (bristles at authority, produces only when mollycoddled by guarantee of starter's minutes). His pride in rebounding is a playing time default position at this point. Defense: has his ups (surges of concentation & physicality) and downs (gets buzzsawed some by elite quicks; loses focus, loose ranger on occasion).

The ultimate Evan, in my guess, will settle somewhere between recent unleashed, "here I am" performances and the erratic, tiptoeing guy who has been a year-and-a-half bust/pain in the brass's ass. I wouldn't make him my centerpice just yet. A lot still to prove, including consistency.

As a commodity, I situate him somewhere between HOLD, ACCUMULATE & SELL. That said, "Courageous Cat" lately; certainly a competitor - but so was Larry Costello, David Wingate, Derek Smith and George Lynch.

Agree with the point you are making. Should make for an interesting rest of the season.

Very. Fun to watch these days - for the puzzle and the findings.

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thewhettingstone reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 13 at 17:44
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I can understand the reservation to label him a superstar at such an early stage in his emergence; however, I have a good feeling about the kid, and I'm putting all of my cards on the table to say he's going to continue to be 'the guy' for the Sixers. This year and many more to come. If I'm wrong, well, so what. At least it all makes for a good story. A young team needed a stud, so we sent our youngest up-and-comer to the lottery to get us a pick. Jrue came through and got number two (plus ten). And also the way you described what you call his 'immature mentality' - 'bristles at authority, produces only when mollycoddled by guarantee of starter's minutes' - I would say that those are absolutely the character traits of a superstar.

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kushmir on Mar 13 at 9:31
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we may have collins to thank for this…my first memory of turner in the NBA was numerous reports of him struggling in summer league. david thorpe went on and on about how bad his body language was. he behave like a player who expected Kobe like calls with Jodie Meeks type production. you can see it now even, like most good players Evan EXPECTS respect from the officials. its just he hadnt proved squat in the league and was underperforming to boot.

Collins decides to go with the tough love and not only doesn’t start him, but makes him play behind a player who’s clearly not as talented. for two years he watches his draftmates play despite the fact many are learning as they go along. to add insult to injury, he pulls him early and often when he makes mistakes. conditioning him to one thing: produce or dont play. it could have backfired but look at the results: Evan treasures PT and doesn’t dare take it for granted…he earned playing time by virtue of Meeks’ diminishing production and the teams need for a lineup change.

Collins may have made Turner into a PRO and given him the one thing he really needs: A "i wasnt a bust" chip on his shoulder.

Regarding the high-risk, high-reward offense, the Sixers have been able to withstand a few more turnovers from an ultra-aggressive Turner because Iguodala has been passing exceptionally well recently, even for him (49 assists, 8 turnovers in the last 7 games; the Sixers as a team lead the NBA by far in assist-to-turnover ratio, at over 2-to-1 [no other team is above 1.7]). One positive from Turner's bench days that hasn't translated yet to his play as a starter is his passing (14 assists, 12 turnovers in his 4 starts). He's made up for it by scoring efficiently, which is what you'd like out of your shooting guard.

The key question for me is whether Turner will be able to make his game into a net positive even if he isn't scoring efficiently (e.g., by doing the Iguodala things of getting rebounds, getting steals, playing defense, getting assists without turning the ball over, and not shooting too much). I have a feeling we may find out in the next couple games (and if he continues to score efficiently, I'm all for that too).

I think the one thing the Sixers really need Evan to do is score. Even if he does inefficiently, when you reach a hundred points, all of a sudden, taking care of the ball to DC's standards is not necessary for a win. If he can keep getting to the line, I believe that will be more than enough reward for starting him. Defense and rebounding are good but not as badly needed as a scoring option, not named Lou.

Brian -

Excellent post but I fear that it fails to raise *the* pressing question that I feel is fundamental for any legitimate Evan Turner analysis. I believe the question that must be asked, but frankly has not been breached, is the ability, or lack thereof, of Evan Turner to maintain a long-term, loving, relationship given the shortcomings in his vocal range (e.g., having an uncomfortably awkward voice).

I am still awaiting the finalization of my UPenn Graduate class survey, but early indications are indicating that the Villian's ability to maintain a healthy relationship is simply marginalized through the law of diminishing returns, in that the more he talks, the less seriously he can be taken. To further understand the analysis, one must ask, "how can true love be found" given the environmental/socioeconomic context of the facts? A NBA study released in 2007 shows that over 94% of NBA relationships are based upon the sole fact that one half of the relationship is an NBA player, while the other 50% of the relationship is comprised of Gucci hoes. If we interpolate this statistic (which arguably must be higher given the relative consistency of the NBA player pay structure against the rapidly declining income of the average American in a post bail-out world) the probability of ET finding someone to love him for 'who he is' (e.g., an awkward voice) versus probability of ET being 'punked by floozies', we find the results to be highly discouraging. If your biggest concern was the impact of a few missed mid-range jump shots to start off a game, I fear you only are considering the tip of the metaphysical iceberg.

I don't want to dump cold water on this love fest, but I just need to see a larger sample size of ET's improved play. To me, the largest and most profound secondary issue caused by ET's maladroit vocal range is the impact it has on his ability to lead a team on the hardwood. I simply cannot believe that a bunch of millionaires in a 4th quarter huddle are able to maintain a level of professionalism and rally behind the Villian as he gives an impassioned speech with 32 seconds remaining. Such an instance would be literally impossible for Lou Williams. Unless ET spends the off-season with a vocal coach, I feel that his ability to rise to the level of superstar will be hindered.

Thank you,

thatguy.

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Sharone Wright reply to thatguy on Mar 13 at 10:20
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ET sounds like Edgar (Vince D'Onofrio) from Men in Black.

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tk76 reply to thatguy on Mar 13 at 10:59
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Kermit the Frog is a proven leader and has been beloved for decades. Avatar is the highest grossing film ever. Cross the two and you have Evan Turner.

Great post Brian!
As an ET fan who began to sour as the reality from the TV set met my eyes, I am happy for him, but mostly just excited about what it could mean for the team.

Everyone seems to be forgetting Jrue while riding the ET ship outta the atmosphere (you know you gotta have AI-Artificial Intelligence for that too). Holiday is the one member on our starting lineup with a pure shot, well close to it anyway, and while the only consistency he has displayed this season is his inconsistent play, I am still high on his projection. Regardless of whether he ends up a combo guard or finds the eyes to play point, I will always favor a player who can shoot and get his shot off as being more effective in the NBA than say Turner.
That being said, with regards to ET, I always knew he had the mentality to be a scorer/star player, he definitely lacks the elite athleticism or shooting to cement that, but I hope with his Andre-Miller repertoire, his ability to read his defender's direction off his cross-over or whatever move he uses, and his ability to get to the line, he may quickly become the Sixers go-to offensive player. To be continued.

I think everyone is jumping the gun a bit when they start talking about ET superstar. I am as happy as anyone that he has stepped up as a starter. But we are talking a few games where they are winning. Just like with Lin, I want to wait to see the ups and downs before making a good guess to what ET can be on a regular basis.

My biggest concern in the past with ET was that at his age he should be close to his prime and not require a ton of seasoning. So it is great to see him step up and I guess we will know in a few weeks just exactly what this team can and cannot expect from ET... which was the very reason to start him.

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Anonymous reply to tk76 on Mar 13 at 10:50
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+1. I could not have said it better myself. Reads like an elastic over reaction over compensating for previous criticism with the opponents being Milwaukee, Utah, Boston, New York. That is not exactly a murderers row of quality basketball teams.

yup i think over-compensation or just 'compensation'(to be grammatically correct) is the word.

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Mar 13 at 11:01
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I am not anointing him as a superstar...however, watching him do the kind of things that he did in college in the NBA is not only exciting...it is fair to think that what we a seeing is not a Lin-like burst. When Lin had that 7-game stretch and Linsanity was born, THAT was ridiculous, because there was nothing in his game at Harvard that would suggest he would do what he did. Yes, he did have some good college games against good teams, but he played in a 3rd tier league that did not have the level of nightly athletes that the Big 10 had...much less the NBA.

Lin h the potential to be a solid NBA point guard...and there is nothing wrong with that. However, Turner has the ability and potential to take was was ELITE production at the college level, and transfer much of it to the pro game. He is doing the SAME THINGS now that he was doing in college...rebounding the basketball at a high level...using his plus-handle to push the ball in transition...he obviously needs to tighten up his handle in the half-court, but just as I expect Lin to cut down on his turnovers as he gains experience, I expect Turner to do the same.

What is exciting is that, as Turner is producing at this level, it looks to my eyes to be very natural...it doesn't look "hit a fallaway 25 baseling jumper with two guys right on top of him how the FUCK did he do that?" like Lou's shot looked liked.

It looks REPEATABLE.

And that is what has me most excited.

I am extremely encouraged with Turner's play of late, but i am still unwilling to jump on the bandwagon. If he can reproduce this same type of game he has produced in his first 4 starts (yes, including the Bucks game), than we can definitely say he is for real.

I wasn't a Turner supporter when the Sixers drafted him, but i've grown to like him last year. I thought this year he will show flashes of brilliance, but struggle at times as well and this is pretty much exactly what he has done. Next year will be his defining year, when he will either become a glue guy or THE guy. Time will tell. I think he can be "THE" guy but needs to be surrounded by the appropriate type of players. Not sure Holiday and Iguodala are the ones but they could be.

Jrue for Steph Curry?

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Anonymous reply to CSTH on Mar 13 at 11:40
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Why would you suggest such a thing? Do you want the sixers to become a worse basketball team?

There is something unique to Sixers fans where the light can only shine on one player at a time. Now that Turner's playing well, all the sudden Jrue has to go.

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CSTH reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 11:48
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I love Jrue and am definitely not advocating that he needs to go, I'm just thinking ahead.

If Turner is the real deal, who would you put around him? When i say Curry for Jrue, I'm asking if Curry's offense outweighs Jrue's D in relation to Turner's skill set.

Probably not, but Turner's emergence allows us to play GM with a new set of hypotheticals, that's for sure and Jrue is a serious, serious chip.

your post is heavy on assumptions.

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CSTH reply to jkay on Mar 13 at 11:54
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Forgive me, it's been a long, long time since I was this interested in guessing what the true ceiling is for a Sixer.

I'd do that trade regardless of Turner's play but i don't see the Warriors agreeing to it. I like Holiday a lot, but i think Curry is and will be better...

I'm with Jkay. I'm really excited for Turner and wish him all the sucess in the world. But I really wonder whether a guard/wing with a so-so outside shot can ever be a #1 scoring option.

When I think of #1 scoring options I think of MJ, Durant, Dirk. Scorers that can rise above whatever the defense throws at them. Obviously those kinds of players don't come along every day which is why they're so valuable.

It's great if Evan contributes in other areas of the game if and when his shot isn't falling. But at the end of the day the Sixers need a night in night out efficient 20+ scorer. Of course they can still be a very good team without one. But it will be very tough to win it all, even with everyone playing at an otherwise high level.

All that said I'm going to be at Friday night's game and I fully expect an unbridled Miami ass whipping.

The guys you're describing are 30ppg guys at their peak. I'm not sure the Sixers need that, I am pretty Turner will never be that good. But it's definitely possible he can be an efficient 20ppg guy, and that really might be all a team built like this needs. Not saying he will be that guy, but it's not absurd anymore to hold out hope.

I'm just as excited about the defense we can play to start games with this lineup. Turner has a long way to go on the defensive end, but if he is your third best perimeter defender you are in good shape. Iguodala is an elite defender (the best in the NBA in my opinion), Jrue is a very good to great defender, and Turner is a good defender. Together I think they can be pretty damn good as a unt.

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MCT reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 11:54
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unit*

For those of you who followed Turner's career at OSU, you'll get a kick out of this story from a new book by Mark Titus (of Club Trillion fame, now with Bill Simmons' "Grantland" website):

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/03/dont-put-me-in-coach-a-review

I heard Titus tell Simmons this story on a BS Report podcast before the 2010 draft, but it was only an abbreviated version.

This is why I held out some hope after Turner's struggles and apparent lack of mental toughness to start his career in the NBA. He was nuts when he started college too, but he eventually got it together.

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bebopdeluxe reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 12:13
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Reading that excerpt, it is amazing that Turner kept his cool and said all he right things while he and Collins were butting heads (and it sure seems likely that ts was the case, after reading this).

Let's all hope that he is on the other side of this.

He's been paid well enough to don't talk back to his boss but that last season "I just wanna play !", after I think a game against golden state, was sort of a talk back..
I defended Turner before but exclusivelly because Collins wasn't using him to his strenghs but I kinda get what Collins was trying to do, Turner was a high usage player with the ball his whole life and a high TO guy too, using too many seconds to create something, I think Collins playing him off the ball forced Turner to put his lightning into a bottle, like "you've got the early part of the shotclock to make something happen"; or "1 TO and you out !" Trying to make him become more productive on a couple of seconds, at first it just kills your game trying to create something too fast and mistake free, its easier just to pass the ball, than "you are not agressive enough, bench !" Then the guy starts to press himself but mind and body aren't used to the kind of speed of the pro game, you will get a TO or a passive guy until the game slows down to him. Once the game slow down and he is not thinking anymore and just executing his talent was tammed to the pro game, now folks, is the time that teams will start to scout him and prepare for him and we gonna see what we got, I hope he become the good Turner; rebouding machine-slasher-scorer this team needs, it will be interesting to watch..

wow, that's a good book.
I highly doubt he got "The Villain" for his play on the court.

Everyone thinks he's soft. Whether it's his purported diva attitude about his role (whichs his coach has directly refuted time and time again and never was an even remotely substantial claim) or his hitherto inconsistent play, everyone had a reason. But Evan has a mean streak, is competitive, and gives this team a ferocity it didn't have from its scorers. This isn't an I told you so, I wasn't at practices gauging how effective he'd be as a focal point playing major minutes. Like most "ET apologists" here, it was hope against hope that he would put it all together and not a concrete eventuality.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Cin on Mar 13 at 18:20
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Anybody who makes it back in 8 weeks from BREAKING HIS BACK is not soft...at least not in my book, anyway.

If he called that guy "walk-on" I wonder what he calls Meeks in practice.

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Turtle Bay reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 18:56
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Turner seems like a total psycho

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TwoSense reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 22:20
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Entertaining how paranoid Turner seems to be. Thinking everyone is trying to keep him from the league or deliberately trying to piss him off? Pretty funny, or alarming, or, a prerequisite for success; depends on one's line of sight. Would have waited for his back to be turned, assuming he took this position to retrieve rebounds off free throws, and fired that son-of-a-bitch squarely right into the back of his ovum-head with all my might, and then proceeded to fuck him up as he expectedly approached said free throw line. Could adjust and amalgamate to any teammate but always abhorred cocky asses like him.

Fine line between mental toughness and feeble mind, in his case.

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Ryan F reply to TwoSense on Mar 13 at 22:23
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yawn.

Eh, the story doesn't bother me that much. If anything, I think he's pretty clearly grown a lot since then, because if he was having tantrums in practice w/ Collins we would've heard about it.

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TwoSense reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:31
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Yea, doesn't bother me either, funny though. Instead of practice tantrums or towel-kicking incidents, do you just send Falk as a pseudo-tantrum to Collins's office?

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MCT reply to TwoSense on Mar 13 at 22:25
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I'm sure Titus embellished the story a bit for dramatic effect. And Turner was 18 or 19 at the time, when I was that age I used to piss on parked cop cars after college parties so I'm not going to judge him for stories like this. From what they say he mellowed out a lot during college and by the time he was a Junior he was considered a great teammate, and also had a great relationship with his coach Thad Matta.

I just thought it was a funny story because he kind of seemed like a spaz as a rookie in the NBA too.

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GoSixers reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 22:32
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I thought it was just a funny anecdote also, though your story of pissing on cop cars - man you were dumb weren't you?

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:36
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I should add that I was inebriated and the cop was never actually in the car.

But yes, I was dumb.

Quick question or maybe statement, while Turner's jumpshot looks more fluid this season his hand placement doesnt look that different to me. Noticed this in a picture that Tom Moore had up over at Philly Burbs. Anyone else notice this or am I seeing things?

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soulgoldy on Mar 13 at 15:07
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look at what he did to shumpert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHsdLhQuRI

Yea I saw that during the game and laughed, wonder what got into him...

Turner and Shumpert are good friends, they played on the same middle school team together.

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Tom Moore on Mar 13 at 15:56
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Sixers Tuesday video: Hawes and Collins on Hawes' impending return against the Pacers:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/sports_columnists/tom_moore/sixers-hawes-collins/youtube_7f987f6b-63f1-5b6b-9e03-cc8966a6cd38.html

Really says a lot about ET too that even though he has this dickish attitude and thinks he should be the best player on the floor every night (and has been for these past three)...the ONLY thing we had to go on from the outside was the towel-kicking thing how many months ago?

Re: Hawes, since you already know how these lineups function with ET in Rodman Mode, do you start the Thad/EB lineup on Weds and put Hawes on the Night Shift, at least to start?

Here's a good use for the Speights trade exception: link.

I think that TPE has limited value because it's so small, but I've always like Douglas' work on the defensive end. It would be good to have a guard off the bench who can defend, even in a limited role.

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GoSixers reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 18:53
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Saw that the Knicks were exploring moving him but didn't even think about it because of the whole 'in your division' BS that means if the sixers weren't in the knicks division they'd probably do it but won't because they play four times a year :)

TPEs in general aren't as valuable as they used to be, ask the jazz and the lakers :)

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CM reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 20:06
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I saw that earlier today and KNEW that Brian would be all over it!

I'd do the TPE or Brackins for Douglas. He'd give the roster a little PG/LouWill insurance and Brackins ain't doin' shit.

Ever since I found this blog I have always waited to read the initial write up whether it was someting i agreed with or that i thought was absolute bullshit. Either way I have never gave Brain a shout out for keeping me coming back day in and day out.

Hell of a job Brian. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the kind words, appreciate it.

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 19:19
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Man the trade deadline can't come soon enough

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GoSixers reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 19:23
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Rooting for the heat seems wrong

Didn't realize the Pacers were playing tonight. That's a bonus. Home/home b2b isn't as big of a deal as one where you travel, though.

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GoSixers reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 20:42
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Bitch Slapping the Blazers (up 16 with 3:40 left in the 3rd) makes it not a huge deal either :)

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Tom Moore on Mar 13 at 20:15
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If Dallas trades Odom, VC, Beaubois and Domonique Jones for expirings they'll only be committed to 30 million in cap salary next year once they amnesty Heywood.

Odom has a $2.4 million buyout next year if the team decides to cut him. Would you make a Nocioni/Odom swap?

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GoSixers reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 20:36
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Nah, he's all messed up this season, I don't think he'd help, and then they have to buy him out anyway. The Mavs situation has been clear for a while - if they find a taker for shawn marion by the deadline - or before free agency - that gives them cap space - I see them getting Deron and Dwight.

@WojYahooNBA: MIL and GS are near deal to send Andrew Bogut and Stephen Jackson for Monta Ellis, Ekpe Udoh & Kwame Brown, sources tell Y!

Is it possible that this makes both teams worse? (given that Bogut it out the rest of this season)

ellis and jennings in the same back-court, dont think that will work out well

I'm wondering if this means they'll look to trade Jennings. I'm not sure who they would get for him, but it would need to be someone who can defend as well, if not better than him, and doesn't mind standing around watching Monta waste possessions.

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GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Mar 13 at 20:40
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Bucks might be looking to move Jennings since supposedly he's already indicated he's leaving cause he said he's keeping his options open and eye on 'big markets' or something.

That deal is laughably weird to me. Is there something I'm missing that makes it make sense for eithe side?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 20:50
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He comes across as a "Knicks" type player.

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Stan reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 20:38
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No- Could you imagine trying to stop a Monte/Jennings backcourt? I haven't seen a backcourt this scary since Marbury/Francis.

Huh?

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GoSixers reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 20:41
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yes, the marbury francis back court did very well in the playoffs did it not?

If the bucks long term plan is an ellis jennings back court, I look for scott skiles to be the first nba coach in a long time to resign

jerry sloan?

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GoSixers reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 20:49
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Crap, totally forgot that...I tend to forget about Utah in general...honestly. not just in basketball but in general.

This Miami game is ridiculous, they should be putting the magic away

I'm not too worried. It's only in the third quarter. Plus the smart guys on the radio said you can't even put Howard in at the end of close games since he can't hit foul shots.

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GoSixers reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 20:54
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Gotta question the offense the heat are running in the third quarter is the magic only committed their seconf foul with 1:45 to go in the quarter.

The magic have taken the lead - when i got home the heat were up like 9

That's because the hedgehog has a few tricks up his sleeve. The magic have beaten the heat before, but the heat are by and large the better team. I'm sure they'll pull this one out.

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GoSixers reply to Jeff on Mar 13 at 20:58
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They better, rooting for the heat makes me feel unclean...the least they could do is win

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Stan reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 20:51
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:( Sarcasm doesn't translate well.

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GoSixers reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 20:52
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All depends on the delivery :)

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 20:54
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I thought my Marbury/Francis comparison would have done the trick.

Larry Brown resigned Dec. '10, maybe with Jordan's hand on the small of his back, but officially a resignation.

Deron Williams' prima donna antics drove Sloan to resign last Feb., just 2 days after Sloan had agreed to coach Jazz this year.

I'm trying to imagine the late former Marine Alex Hannum and Evan Turner coexisting, but I can't. (Hannum is the only coach to win a crown with 3 teams - Hawks, Sixers, Oaks. And he's the only one whose teams denied Bill Russell the trophy - twice.)

What's your point? Are you questioning Turner's character?

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GoSixers reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 21:48
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He doesn't have one, never does

Didn't question. Made statements. They're self-explanatory.

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Gosixers reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 13 at 21:59
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They're self-explanatory.

Hardly ever

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Charlie H reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 14 at 9:56
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What a great coach, one of the best ever. Nobody else won NBA titles with 2 teams until Phil Jackson did it. (Not that it's a better achievement than winning twice with the same team.) He was a hardass, but he was also a player's coach. Wilt liked playing for him so much that he made sure the Sixers hired him.

Well if there is an consolation, us being the #4 seed and Chicago being the #1 seed means that we won't have to face Miami in the 2nd round.

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GoSixers reply to Stan on Mar 13 at 21:53
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The sixers aren't going to beat the heat or the bulls in a 7 game series, there's no consolation.

I still think the sixers end up with the 3 seed, pacers / magic will play each other (assuming howard isn't traded)

The bucks on the other hand have decided they'd like to help the knicks get the 8 seed.

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:00
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I don't think the Sixers can beat the Bulls in a 7 game series either. But they match up better to the Bulls than the Heat.

Bogut was out this season anyway. Maybe Ellis is good enough of an improvement over Jackson to help the Bucks keep the 8th seed.

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:01
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Rusty Simmons: Ellis offered this gem, "I knew they weren't going to trade me to a playoff team."

Hm...Monta, the bucks currently hold the 8 seed in the east. I know it's confusing, but the top 8 teams in each conference make the playoffs. Of course, now that the bucks have added you, you're right, they probably won't make the playoffs, probably because of you

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MCT reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:04
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Wow, what a dick thing to say. Way to make a good first impression with your new team Mr. Ellis.

I wonder if he'll ride his mo-ped to Milwaukee.

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MCT reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:09
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Ha, this time it's made of solid gold.

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GoSixers reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 22:06
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These are better comments (non ellis)

Rusty Simmons: One Warriors player said: "If we're giving up, I can feel my hip hurting already." Twitter

Marcus Thompson: Said one Warriors player: "So we're just giving up on the season?" Twitter

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:09
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Ron Artest just threw a hip check into a grizzlies player to try and get the lakers a fast break (they didn't convert) jesus...i think the nba needs a fourth official

One of my points was that you were inaccurate in your statement about resignations. Hope you didn't mind the contrast.

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GoSixers reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 13 at 22:13
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You could have just gone with Jerry Sloan - I forgot him too...and in fact someone had already mentioned it, so aside from the reply function not making sense to your obviously alzheimers riddled brain, it was already pointed out to me that i was wrong, so you missed out on the glory that so many seem to think is important.

So an oversight is evidence of a disease and correcting nonsense is glory. Don't think so, chap. Cheerio.

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GoSixers reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 13 at 22:31
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There is more than enough evidence to indicate that the prions have started eating your brain old man...

When you wish upon a star... .

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:15
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So those bulls/lakers talks about gasol?

The talks, first reported by ESPN.com's Marc Stein, were driven at least in part by Arn Tellem, the shared agent of Gasol and Derrick Rose. Tellem has had a longstanding strong relationship with Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf. Chicago Tribune

Another agent trying to make a deal, the nba needs to crack down on this stuff

Would you trade Brand and Jrue for Gasol?

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South Broad reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:24
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No, .. three years ago - yes.

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GoSixers reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:28
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No - I wouldn't...I don't think he makes the difference against the heat or bulls, and I think he's one of those guys who likes being #2, not #1...plus you're dumping jrue in that deal. I prefer keeping the jrue turner 'mini core' together for now

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:37
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I would not. He doesn't replace the production of the two players. I can't see how Gasol's craftiness and post game would benefit the team more than what Jrue and Elton mean to the defense, and the offense to a lesser extent.

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GoSixers reply to Ryan F on Mar 13 at 22:39
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If it were straight up Pau for Elton (hypothetically) i'd do it in a heart beat cause I think elton brand has less left in his tank than my ford with the blown engine that hasn't been driven in 3 years

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Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:47
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As would I. I think Pau's game will actually decline less rapidly that most players since he's a skilled, long player that has never really relied on athleticism. Brand wasn't the deal beaker in the scenario, neither Jrue, it was the combination of the two. Don't feel that that trade would improve the team now, or in the future.

I wish Thorn would had made a pitch for Bogut, maybe boss, Noce, Lavoy and Hawes would get the deal done, talent wise is not worse than golden state offer plus they could be all expiring. The team survived half season with out Hawes anyway, they could wait on Bogut, I read he could be back in mid april; Lavoy and Noce are end of the bench players; Lou is the only one the team would miss his production but for a shot at real center I would have try it

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GoSixers reply to JH on Mar 13 at 22:30
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A. You don't know that he didn't make a pitch (I hope to god he didn't)
B. SPencer Hawes can veto any trade
C. Bogut is injury prone and does he fit what the sixers do?

The bucks didn't get much for bogut - but did you see the part where you also have to take back stephen jackson?

The bucks weren't making a deal of Bogut without stephen Jackson - how did you plan to make that work?

Well you don't get a potential top 5 center without giving a pick and a real starter or taking someone garbage a.k.a S.Jackson. But I would preffer Captain Jack being Sixers bench point replacement for Lou at 3 spot behind Iggy, he still could shoot a 3 and his salary expire together with EB's.
How Bogut fit the Sixers ? When healthy he could hold the D on the paint, plus he is a good shotblocker and rebounder, that could be enough to get Thad on the starting 5.
Or do you think Dwight is coming to Philly this next summer ? Do you think LA is giving Bynum for such low offer ? Gortat for Lou and hawes, would the Suns do it ?
Guess not.. So how you gonna fill the 5 spot for this team to make the next step ? I dont think Hawes is the answer. So give me yours.

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South Broad reply to JH on Mar 13 at 22:40
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Never really had a liking or interest in Bogut at all. Too plodding. Not strong enough as a weak-side guy.

EB is too plodding and he is the starter at PF on this team. Bogut could start with Thad..
Im not saying Bogut is the savior but he is an above average center when healthy and his 2 injuries are not like Bynum's or Oden's chronicle injuries on the same places, his injuries were more like accidents.
Im trying to come with ideas for the sore spot on this team, a big who can defend and rebound with the best bigs on the league, I thought a Bogut trade would fecth at least a starter, young talent and a 1st round pick plus take S. Jax off their hands. He got trade for a cheaper offer, I just note that, for that crap of golden state's offer, the Sixers could make it a better one without touching the nucleus of JTI and Thad

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Eric reply to JH on Mar 13 at 23:17
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Omer Asik is a restricted free agent this summer. He would be a great fit next to Thad.

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JH reply to Eric on Mar 14 at 9:51
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Agree..
Im looking at him too

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South Broad reply to JH on Mar 13 at 23:39
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Back injury in '08-'09 wasn't / isn't of the accident variety. He's just a shiny Spencer Hawes imo. Not much more than what you already have when it boils down to it.

Fucking Nuggets are coughing this game up. Had the Hawks buried.

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GoSixers reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:37
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Ongoing theme tonight, the heat should have beat the magic - the grizzlies (even short handed) let the lakers back into go into overtime - coming down to the end now.

Lakers will get last shot - let's see if kobe passes

Does the arrival of Ekpe Udoh in Milwaukee mean that Larry Sanders is available? As two defensive rotational guys it's pretty redundant to keep both. Perhaps they flip Udoh? Time for Rod Thorn to get into attack mode. Lavoy and Nik

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GoSixers reply to Cin on Mar 13 at 22:38
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Oh yes please, maybe Garry Shandling will come to games

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South Broad reply to Cin on Mar 13 at 22:46
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You really see Udoh as that "defensive"? Meaning, is he really that much of a difference maker on defense and the glass moreso than the offense Nikola provides you as a jump-shooting big and occasional on-the-blocks guy?

I see him as athletic with potential in transition, defensively and offensively. Also, he's an excellent at blocking shots and could be used in that role quite well. My original post got cut off, but I was basically getting at Nikola and Lavoy being well suited to their roles, an offensive big and dirtywork big, respectively, but neither are effective as weakside help.

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South Broad reply to Cin on Mar 13 at 23:56
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Thought you were saying trade Nikola for Udoh, I see now.

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:43
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Oj mayo has no conscience when he shoots

Even when he's 7 for 21 he'll just keep shooting

Not sure why, but I'm torturing myself w/ this ATL/DEN game. They had to yank Lawson and get Miller in there to calm things down. Denver clinging to a 2-point lead.

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GoSixers reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 22:49
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I just like watching the game in hi def, and i mean, who doesn't want to watch a game at a stadium that plays whoomp there it is AND that steel dragon classic stand up and shout :)

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matt reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 23:23
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Even on mobile gamecast this is good

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GoSixers on Mar 13 at 22:51
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Um - NBA.com seems to have jumped the gun?

http://store.nba.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12458953

dwight now saying he wants to stay the rest of the year and the magic have to "roll the dice"

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GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Mar 14 at 10:40
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Dwight needs to stop trying to placate everyone and be honest, he's screwing the Magic and what little fans they have in an attempt to be loved by all and over reacting after a win against the heat.

Omer Asik is a restricted free agent this summer. He would be a great fit next to Thad.

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Eric reply to Eric on Mar 13 at 23:18
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Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to JH's above comment.

Joe Johnson forcing shit against Afflalo is the best play they can come up with?

Heh, did you see the end of that game? Ran a beautiful play on the inbound and Zaza blows the point-blank layup. Hawks lose.

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MCT reply to Brian on Mar 13 at 23:52
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Yeah it didn't even hit the rim. I can't decide if that was a brilliant play call or a terrible one.

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MCT reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 23:53
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Terrible in hindshight I mean, since he missed so badly. Dude was wide open though

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MCT reply to MCT on Mar 13 at 23:54
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hindsight*

So if Dwight goes to the Nets, either by trade or free agency in the offseason, is there any chance that Deron Williams skips town anyway and signs with his hometown Mavs?

Yeah, I think there's definitely a chance.

Orlando has to have better offers on the table for Dwight simply as a rental than what NJ can offer them right now. If they trade him, I doubt it'll be to the Nets. This is probably going to play out this summer.

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GoSixers reply to MCT on Mar 14 at 10:42
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I've always thought Deron was going to Dallas no matter what, and thus that's why he's keeping his mouth shut. I still think Cuban figures out a way to get them both.


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