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Bizarro Night Comes at Wrong Time

They got beat up out there and did not really punch back. Not a big surprise but somewhat disappointing.

At least it wasn't a close loss. Look on the bright side, Turner looked good again, and Jrue did as well.

tk76 reply to Brian on Mar 15 at 3:03

I am not pessimistic. The game was what it was. The Pacers where able to dictate the style and the Sixers where sort of impressive to be able to hang so long with their scoring. But in another game maybe the Sixers dictate their style and win handily. I think a bit has to dictate with how the game is called and the crowd reaction. In Philly I'm guessing a lot more fouls get called against the Pacers and less bail out Calla against the sixers which would have changes the game.

Not saying it was badly officiated. More that the way it was called played into the Pacers style and allowed them to set their types of screens and assert their physical style.

6mauro4 on Mar 15 at 4:01

Usually iguodala responds with great defense against all stars players; tonight he didn't. Not only on granger but also on hill in crucial time; are there any trades involving AI? We will see tomorrow.

Spencer for hire on Mar 15 at 6:57

Collins always says if they don't play with a sense of urgency they are not real good, and tonight it showed. Defense aside, I was curious how Hawes would "fit in offensively" and to be honest he looked like he got in the way more than anything.

Turner's emergence may have signaled the end of the "Hawes era" in Philly this summer and a big that screens and offensive rebounds should be a target this summer.

Whether we draft him [Plumlee?] or sign him [Humphries] a big in that vein is needed now, not another facillitator.

Sixers have had one solid win against a pretty good team in Utah since the all star break.
Celtics were on the third night of a back to back to back--
and the Knicks were in obvious disarray.
Next six games they will go 2-4. Still nice to see Turner playing well and Jrue looked pretty good also.

Unfortunately the teams not really even remotely close to a championship and superstar players don't want to come here. Why Dwight Howard would prefer Brooklyn over Philly is beyond me.
Philly can be a basketball town, has great history and passionate fans. The Nets have NONE of that. Not to mention even a gutted Sixer team is better than the Nets.
Prokhorov must be a heck of a salesman.

"Why Dwight Howard would prefer Brooklyn over Philly is beyond me. "

Really? The same reason almost anyone in any line of work chooses NYC over Philly. 4am closing time vs 2am. Celebrities galore vs. zero celebrities. International world-class city vs. boring, cultureless second-rate little brother.

Plus it's not really Brooklyn. Dwight will live in Manhattan, and become the media star he always wanted to be. Philly vs. NYC is not a difficult decision for any NBA player, or, frankly, any young professional period.

Gdog reply to spiller27 on Mar 15 at 8:38

I hear you BUT--the Nets games/team/basketball culture is DEAD. It will always be Knick basketball first. Just like its Yankee baseball. Guess Dwight will have to find that out the hard way...

Sharone Wright reply to spiller27 on Mar 15 at 8:39

"Effective play from him [Hawes] and/or Vuce will be necessary in the playoffs."
Why? Its not like he can defend the other team's big, right? And the JTI Thad Brand lineup will probably close for us. Hawes brings nothing to the table, and takes a lot off. We have three guys who can pass, we don't need to run our offense through the center anymore.

CSTH reply to spiller27 on Mar 15 at 9:09


I'd be interested to know where you live or where you have lived to make these claims.

I lived in NY for 11 years but am Philly born and raised. Of course I love NY, but my opening argument to Howard would start with a video of absolute sea of Philles red from their championship parade. The one thing Philly has over NY is that sports are more central to life in Philly than they are in NY. The reason for this is just what you mentioned above, NY has a ton going on. If the Knicks suck, there are still 8 million things to do to take your mind off it. This is not the case in Philly. When a team is good in Philly, like the Phillies, the entire city takes it to heart and it becomes part of our identity and those stars become the brightest stars in our not so little universe. Eagles nation is real. A summer night in center city is dominated by Phillies shirts. With Howard and a real shot at a championship, the rich Sixers history and our pride in that history would swell back to life. The Nets will never have that. Howard and Williams will never win a championship, and Howard will be just another star in the galaxy of stars that is NY. We are not Cleveland. The Sixers are one of the 5 most important franchises in NBA history. And Philadelphia is an incredible place to be the star of a championship team. Ask Ryan Howard or Pat Burrell or Jimmy Rollins if they would have rather won their championship for the Yankees. I guarantee they say no. Just like anything in life, it's more meaningful when you have less of it.

Gdog reply to CSTH on Mar 15 at 10:43

I've lived in Jersey and PA. Used to live right outside of East Rutherford and I have friends who are Nets fans. Been to many Net/Sixer games and when both teams are good---there is NO comparison. Back in 2000 Sixer games were ELECTRIC. Even when the Nets went back to back in their finals appearances with Jason Kidd--the "juice" just wasn't there in their arena. Jeremy Lin had the knicks on a 7 game winning streak and NY was on FIRE.
People love the knicks good or bad---New Yorkers could care less about the Nets and they wont care when they are in Brooklyn either. Throw all the Jay Z hip hop BS you want on there...it wont matter.

A. The Nets are going to Brooklyn, which has a little bit of a basketball history
B. This whole philly is a basketball town is a meme that just won't die but it's also not valid as far as I'm concerned unless you preface it by saying it's a COLLEGE basketball town
C. Dwight Howards motivations (before his decision to waste another season in Orlando - maybe he just wants to try and answer the media questions accurately this time) for his new team had very little to do with basketball, because if it had to do with winning, the sixers would have been an option.
D. Philadelphias fan base doesn't exactly have a history of being ultra supportive of players who might struggle, or shoot 50% from the FT line...and Dwight seems to be a bit of a delicate flower

Gdog reply to GoSixers on Mar 15 at 10:49

Philly IS a basketball town if the team is decent. I went to many Iverson years games and the atmosphere was great.
But you are right though---If the team isnt immediately great and Howard struggles he will catch a beating in the media--everyday. I guess he doesn't want that pressure.
Probably also why Lebron didn't go to the Knicks.
Who knows maybe Howard is friends with D Mcnabb.

Probably also why Lebron didn't go to the Knicks.

You are incorrect sir. And looking at the knicks, maybe Lebron made the right choice. Lebron didn't go to new york cause it's a pathetically run organization with an awful owner that won't win for ever, and that's kind of awesome.

Fans showing up when a team is good doesn't make a town a good 'sports' town - it makes em a good bandwagon town.

Philadelphia is a good HOCKEY town - the flyers tend to do well in attendance even in down years. Philadelphia is a good football town, the eagles were awful last year and still get primacy on the Sports radio most of the year, even when the only season being played is the sixers.

Like most cities, Philadelphia is a good bandwagon town, but like relationships, the strength of fanhood is defined by how a team is supported when it's rocky. It's easy to support a team when they're winning. But Philadelphia fans turned on the sixers, and QUICKLY as the Iverson thing went wrong.

ESPN 710 does a 2 hour lakers pre game - every game - if the sixers were the best team in the league - I still don't think they'd get a 2 hour radio pre game

That's just how I see it.

And one more thing

Turned on 97.5 this morning as I got to work (10:30 east coast time) to see fan reaction to the sixer game.

So far all they've talked about for 35 minutes is the Eagles.

Gdog reply to GoSixers on Mar 15 at 12:57

well. The Sixers will never eclipse the Eagles. But part of that is the NBA isnt even close to the popularity of the NFL. Having been at all sorts of NBA games--I can tell you that there is a certain "juice" to sixer gams when they are good. It may be bandwagon but the Nets games were dead when they were going to the finals--the sixer games in 2000 were ELECTRIC.

I attribute the loss to Indy being physical and the Sixers letting it throw them off their game.

Indy was getting away with some muggings and the Sixers were preoccupied with the calls they weren't getting - particularly Thad and Lou, IMO. I did like Iguodala's response after Granger hit him with that elbow - his dunk attempt that knocked over Hibbert and West. Jrue's face as Andre went to the line was awesome.

Hawes stunk, but that's to be expected - his early season play was such a surprise that you can't really expect for him to pick up right where he left off. Effective play from him and/or Vuce will be necessary in the playoffs. It's going to take Hawes some time to get his legs, which is key for him considering his lack of upper body strength - length and mobility are his advantages. There were a couple of Granger drives that he was really slow to react to.

Sharone Wright reply to CM on Mar 15 at 8:40

"Effective play from him [Hawes] and/or Vuce will be necessary in the playoffs."
Why? Its not like he can defend the other team's big, right? And the JTI Thad Brand lineup will probably close for us. Hawes brings nothing to the table, and takes a lot off. We have three guys who can pass, we don't need to run our offense through the center anymore.

When you score by committee, having as many contributors as possible should be a priority. Getting something from Hawes/Vuce will keep opponents honest and open space for the others.

They're not going to be able to hang with top teams if they are getting nothing from their frontcourt. Thad hasn't shown that he can be effective in a playoff series where the other team gameplans for him (see 2011 vs Miami) and relying on Brand to give you 30+ minutes a night through a series is follish, IMO.

Sharone Wright reply to CM on Mar 15 at 10:06

I don't want Hawes being a member of that committee! I am OK with him getting 20 minutes in back up role in the playoffs to keep EB's minutes down. But when the 4th quarter rolls around, please bench him.

mchezo reply to CM on Mar 15 at 13:54

3 fouls in three quarters is pathetic. these is no excuse for that kind of officiating.

I give Spencer a pass due to his long absence. I don't give Doug a pass for playing him that much. Sucks to not have Lavoy or Batman in there for defensive purposes. Don't think Hawes should be starting yet. Although the Heat game might be the best matchup for him to do it.

Anyone else see the rumor that Thorn is looking to add a "big guard" to fill out the bench? Jodie and Lou are looking pretty small these days with all our size in the starting line up. Not sure who they may be targeting- but size for the sake of size doesn't sound good to me.

I thought it was Iguodala's worst defensive game of the year, in a year when he is leading the league by a LOT in opponent PER (and holding opposing SFs to about 35% eFG). It began with the two offensive rebounds allowed, continuing a disturbing trend from the Knicks game (where he gave up about 4 offensive rebounds to Carmelo). But Granger also got off about 4 not-very-well-challenged jumpers in the 3rd, due to an uncharacteristic lack of concentration on Iguodala's part. The Sixers player the Pacers two more times, so hopefully Iguodala will come out more aggressively the next time.

All that said, I've seen the Pacers a few times this year, and they aren't nearly as good as they showed last night (though they did almost beat the Heat the other day, so maybe they are peaking now). When Lou Amundson is hitting 20-footers, you know it's just not your team's night ...

Exile on Kenny Payne Street on Mar 15 at 9:38

Other than the first possession of the game, the Sixers D didn't trigger the O. Credit to the Pacers for excellent transition defense, too. Pacers did not miss, Sixers could not get out and run, and when they did they never had numbers. Indiana played as well as it could possibly play. It happens. I wouldn't expect the same outcome next time they play.

Go easy on Hawes :)

Hawes was terrible last night, but after being gone so long it's not surprising he was terrible. Hawes at 100% and the sixers still probably lose that game because at 100% Hawes is still terrible defensively against strong physical players...

Hawes needs time to get back into game shape, conditioning, speed, and that can only happen by playing in games, so Doug's going to have to work him in at Dougs pace...win or lose a game here or there isn't as important as having a 100% healthy roster come playoff time, though keeping a top 4 seed would be nice, though I think not an issue long term either...though I know that if they lose to the heat and bulls people will be freaking out

Of course the Heat lost to the Bulls without D Rose last night, so they'll be foaming at the mouth on Friday night. I really hope we can split these next two games.

anybody know if theres any chance rose misses the game against us this weekend? a win's a win.

A win is a win, and no derrick rose does hurt the bulls. However, the Bulls without Rose still beat the Heat last night

It was really a weird game. The Sixers offense was actually pretty good, one of their better performances at that end of the floor. But the defense was absolutely inexcusable. Yes, the Pacers made a lot of shots they don't normally make, but the Sixers didn't really force them into tough shots the way they usually do.

I am not worried in the long term, but they better come back with a vengeance against Miami and Chicago. This kind of defense is unacceptable.

Stan reply to Xsago on Mar 15 at 10:17

I thought Iguodala played lazy (to his standards). He half-heartily contested Granger's jump shots and he allowed Granger to get a few rebounds. I also did not agree with 2/3 of the 3s he jacked up after he went 2-2.

Just saw that. So basically we gave them back one of the two 2nd round picks they gave us for Speights?

I would be lying if I said that I knew anything about Sam Young.

Well i guess it's Young for Memphis weirdly protected pick + the TPE for Young.

I'm fine with this move. I think will fit in nicely with this group. He is fairly limited offensively but is a decent defender and an energy/hustle guy from the little that i have seen. I haven't seen any numbers yet though...

Wait a minute, the sixers obtained Sam young AND gave up a pick?

THat's just stupid. Memphis was the motivated seller, Memphis was trying to get under the luxury tax. Hell I advocated this damn thing yesterday but to get an extra pick, please tell me the sixers didn't:

A. Help Memphis get under the luxury tax
B. Give up a pick, even a conditional second round pick, to do so.

Sam Young was very valuable to Memphis with Rudy Gay out last year. He was actually a big reason they were able to continue strong without him and make a playoff run. Obviously Gay is far superior, but Young did prove an adequate starter for a playoff team. Given that he has another year on his rookie contract after this season, when we'll be potentially without Lou and Jodie, it makes this a very smart move since they'll be able to bring him up to speed for the second half of the season and then work him in during the off-season.

1. According to StoryTellers (the most reliable site I know for contracts) Young isn't signed past this season.
2. His number isn't even as high as they list do to 250K in unlikely incentives listed
3. The Grizz needed to get under the salary cap - they saved money - they were looking for someone to take Sam Young with a TPE
4. Don't care what Sam Young did last year for another team, that was last year, he's coming here to be better than Jodie Meeks

Unless what I was just told by someone I trust that the sixers have to give up something in a trade (though he might have been kidding, I don't know) there's no reason to have given up anything to help memphis save 5 million dollars on a player it was known they were looking to trade and were going to let go in the off season anyway

You're right, he is expiring, I thought he was a late first round pick.

I disagree that he's coming in to compete with Jodie given his first two years at Pitt and Memphis shooting between 0.6 and 1.1 three's per game. However, in his second two years at Pitt he had up to four attempts at nearly 40%. Even if he reverts to those years as a shooter he, could hardly be classified as a pure shooter. Essentially my argument is that they are both meant to round out the wing rotation, especially after Lou walks next year.

Of course, if this were a precursor move, it would have to be for Lou. After his two televised scuffles with DC, hinting at wanting to be a starter in a post-game interview, and also Evan hinting at another teammate wanting to start (almost definitely Lou), it's probably best to trade him while he's having a career year.

Jrue/Turner/Iguodala with Young/Meeks on the rotation is very solid.

I was primarily thinking about their ability to play defense. I know very little about Sam Young, but the odds are he's a better defender than jodie meeks? (and lou of course)

His 3 point shooting (or meeks) is irrelevant to me - it's the defense from the bench that concerns me - cause now the sixers '1-3' defensive bench is jodie and lou :)

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Mar 15 at 10:55

I hear what you are saying, bro...but perhaps Thorn needed to give up the 2 because other teams may have wanted the guy?

Just the sheer fact that he can play some 3 - allowing both Iguodala and Turner to get rest together - will help a lot. We get a free look...if he fits in, we can keep him around next year at a reasonable nut. With Turner hopefully in the starting lineup for keeps, we needed to add a legit SF to the bench, and at this time of the year we could do worse than Sam Young.

I think thorn needed to give up whatever he gave up because the NBA rules require it. I don't believe there was a huge market for Sam Young

(PS...I hope the magic get dwight signed piece of paper and turn around and trade him)

So now that Howard is waiving his ETO, do you think that this changes the Sixers trade deadline strategy? Would they be more willing to take on contracts that end next year?

It shouldn't

The sixers had zero chance of obtaining Dwight Howard (in my opinion) and functioning in a way that they thought they did would mean they weren't paying attention or doing their due dilligence (sure you can't talk to the player but every one talks to agents)

Dwight Howard was never a realistic option so now I don't think the sixers 'deadline strategy' should change. However, I don't think they had a deadline strategy that involved anyone but spare parts (Nocioni, Brackins, etc..) and somehow using the TPE - they weren't going to make a splash anyway.

This Dwight Howard thing is laughable to me, the agents selfish motivation, Dwight wishy washy BS, seriously, the answer is 'no comment' then move on - stop trying to please everyone. Make your statement at the beginning of the season "I"m going to explore free agency" and say no comment...Dwight seems to care too much about what people think of him and thus he comes off as a buffoon.

I was thinking though, did Drew Brees field questions all season about a contract extension with the Saints? Did the horribly mean aggressive Philadelphia media torture Desean Jackson all season? (These are serious questions). Sure sometimes it plays out in MLB, but does it play out in the NFL, and is anywhere worse than the NBA...again, it's just nuts.

Sam Young seems like a redundant piece to the puzzle that is 76ers basketball. Wonder if this means they are going to trade Turner or Andre and this is to cover the gap.

Sam Young is a guy who maybe is better than Jodie Meeks. He has an expiring contract. It probably means absolutely nothing to trading Evan Turner or Andre Iguodala. It just means that the sixers bench guards now that Evan Turner is a starter are god awful

And let me be clear that I understand that a second round pick, a conditional one, is insignificant in the grad scheme of things...that Sam Young is insignificant.

The sixers helped the grizzlies save about 5 million dollars (Brians figure I'm using, not looking it up) by taking a contract off their hands...and to thank Memphis for the privilege of helping them save 5 million dollars the sixers said, here have your second round pick back.

It's not the pick that bothers me per sé, it's the savvy of the GM that I question. There's absolutely no reason the seasons should have to give up anything aside from the TPE space to help the Griz save 5 million dollars, hell they should GET something for taking on the salary and helping the Grizz out. To me it's another mark in the negative ledger of Rod Thorn.

you understand basketball enough to not compare Sam Young and Meeks, its like compare oranges and apples, Sam is an athletic defender with a suspect shot in the mold of Dantay Jones, Meeks is just a shooter with some effort on D but still suspect on this side of the game.. They can't do the samething on the court so to say Sam is coming to be better than Meeks is a bit strange, he could get in front of Meeks in the rotation but its up to what Collins need from his players and not which one is better. Just saying, please don't be offended.

I wouldn't call his shot suspect, just lacking range. He should do well knocking down open looks off of swing passes along the perimeter, albeit from a couple feet inside the three point line.

No, it's not strange. I don't care about Jodie Meeks play except for his defense cause his shot this year is sporadic at best, defense is different, it's always there, and the sixers lack defense off the bench. If you don't think getting someone who can defend better than Meeks (and Lou) is important you weren't watching last nights game.

They have a gap to cover right now. There's no backup 3 on the roster when you start Iguodala and Turner, which means less of your best three on the perimeter together because you have to alternate the rest for Turner and Iguodala. Young at least gives you someone who can play the three and defend for maybe 6-8 minutes/night so both Iguodala and Turner can rest at the same time. Might mean 6-8 more minutes for them together on the floor.

Stan reply to thatguy on Mar 15 at 10:46

So what you're saying is that Rod Thorn will now be looking to trade Andre or Turner because he has Sam Young who will come in and replace their production?

bebopdeluxe reply to thatguy on Mar 15 at 10:47

This is a guy that we, in essence, paid a 2nd round pick to get a look at to see if he fits. Decent skill set for a bench guy...certainly gives us another kind of body to bring in off the bench at the 2/3. With Turner now as a starter, we really did not have a guy like this outside of the starting lineup.

Not an earth shaking move, but I think it makes the bench deeper.

thatguy reply to bebopdeluxe on Mar 15 at 10:53

I agree with all of the above statements, but still, have a few hours until the deadline, maybe they are setting up for some LEAGUE SHATTERING NEWS. Sixers basketball is back!

@derekbodner Hearing 2nd round pick is long ago forgotten about Ricky Sanchez

bebopdeluxe reply to sixerfan1220 on Mar 15 at 11:10

Meaning - we got him for SQUAT.

Happier now, Jem?

As I understand it I'm never ever happy. If something was required to go back to Memphis, then yeah I feel better about it, though I still would have liked to see something else come from Memphis, like another future second round pick or a weak first round pick (say top 20 protected or whatever) just to show some negotiating savvy yes.

Yesterday I said the sixers should get nick young AND the grizz first round pick this year (possibly in the low 20s) to help them save 5 million dollars, so it's not like my opinion on this changes now that the trade is made.

Do they have to give something back in the trade, I guess that's the rules, that doesn't mean that savvy negotiation doesn't get something else out of it as a 'thank you' from the grizz for saving the 5 million. I don't believe sam young is going to be a huge difference maker this season (unless catasrophe happens) or that he's going to be on the roster past this season, so yeah, I would have liekd to see a little bit more coming to philly for helping memphis get under the luxury tax.

It's not the specific deal, like i said, it's the principle, reflection on the sixers GM (as I see it) that's all. I think it's over all impact on the sixers is minimal on and off the court.

If you expect 'earth shattering' news from the sixers, you're going to be sorely disappointed I believe

"Snarls" Hawes, a center only a mother could love.

Iggy, Granger's girlfriend for a night, has another big date Friday.

Indiana physical approach, the way to go when meeting Philadelphia, a team loaded with confidence-men. "You tough? I'm not goin' anywhere. Prove it."

Rough road just ahead - Heat, @Bulls, @Bobcats, Knicks, Celtics, @Spurs. Likely to lose 4 of next 6... 27-22, engine throwin' out blue smoke.

Sam Young: great, another 6'6"" athlete to add to the stable. Sixers need inside muscle for playoff success. A tweak for Coach Tweak by Thorn, cautious tweaker.

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