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A Deflating Loss in Chicago

I vehemently disagree with this nonsense.

Ha! it's almost as if his presence makes the rest of tge team play softer.

On another note, it would be nice to watch a game where the sixers dont get two or three times as many PFs as the opposition.

At least their next game is against a bad team. They need to beat up on some cupcakes in the hope of recatching some of their rhythm from earlier this year.

I really don't fell like I have ever had a good handle on this team all year. A strange season of dichotomies. Good defense but soft. Great point differential but can't win a close game. Living off of jumpers yet Iggy is their best long range shooter this year. It is almost like every trend appears unsustainable. The only consistent thing they do is crush bad teams... which they won't be facing come the playoffs.

It's not so much that I am down on this team as much as I just don't understand them and don't know long term where they are headed and how the can realistically put it all together.

They've been nothing if not predictably unpredictable. And they've provided great fodder for the people who like to chime in with "Sixers suck, blow it up!" comments occasionally.

I'm also expecting the Knicks trolls to show up within a day or two.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Mar 18 at 1:56
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Not even sure how you can blow up such a young tram. But you can maybe mix it up by exchanging your young talent other promising young player who are languishing on bad teams. I would never advocate trading youth for band aid vets... but a Stack house for Ratliff type deal might be in order. Give up a core player for a big.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Mar 18 at 4:00
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You could've traded Iguodala, maybe Lou.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Mar 18 at 1:51
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Maybe they are a bit of seasoning and doable moves from being a top 6 team... or maybe they are the hawks of 3 years ago- building around a young core that won't ever go anywhere and locking themselves in another 4+ years if 1st round exits.

The Hawks got out of the first round last year, right?

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tk76 reply to Brian on Mar 18 at 2:12
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True- and I expect the Sixers will at some point. But were the Hawks really seen as a threat? And will the Sixers need a huge move it just a smart one to get beyond what the Hawks were.

No idea. I'd like to see what this team as currently constructed could do w/ half of a decent center. I'm sure Hawks fans have said for years they'd like to see what their core can do w/ half of a decent PG, though.

Where are they getting a half decent center though they don't grow on trees...the only free agent centers worth sniffing this off season are both restricted (Hibbert and Lopez) and even on Lopez the Nets are gonna match probably.

my fear is they turn into the Hawks or Blazers. a lot of young talent they could package and make a splash for a glaring need (on this team obv a center). instead they never pulled the trigger & doomed themselves to a string of 1st rd exits. injuries played a part in Portland too, but they could have still done something to make themselves more competitive.

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tk76 reply to Mike on Mar 18 at 10:24
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Also, outside of Philly, the general feeling is that this Sixers team has lower caliber talent than what the Hawks or Blazers had 2 years ago.

In terms of high level talent, listing the highest first... and ranking using the Hawks and Blazers players perceived talent level 2 years ago and the Sixers today:

Roy
JJ
Horford
Smith
Aldridge
Iguodala
Oden (would be higher but already injuries 2 yrs ago)
Jrue
Young
Lou
ET
Brand
Andre Miller(underrated 2 yrs ago on the blazers)

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Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 10:07
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Brian, If New Orleans is willing to part with Okafor for caproom and a young big [L.Allen] or future pick here is my solution, if Elton is amnestied.

Start Okafor at center with Thad next to him. Thad is averaging 7 rebounds in 30 mpg. recently and may get 18 ppg. as a starter. Draft Plumlee [N. Collison?] and put him next to Vuce off the bench and depending on matchups, Thad and Plumlee's minutes vary slightly.

Not sure how much better we would be but more physical, probably.

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eddies' heady's reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 10:29
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I see you throw around his name often, but you don't believe Plumlee is going to provide you with anything physical do you? (assuming you're referring to Mason?)

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Spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 12:10
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Picking where we are he may be the best option. Don't see him as more than a rotational big but hope our staff can get a lot out of him.

If we can trade the pick for a guy in the league go that route but not sure who.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 10:26
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@Tray above: Or trade Turner when he was hot.

I mentioned it after the Boston game, even if these three are able to play together, you ain't winning crap with them in roles like this. This three guys can initiate offense, or two of them masquerading as PG's when neither are really traditional PG's, is not going to be successful long term. It will not fly in the playoffs especially if they're fortunate enough to make it to a 2nd round matchup when the competition and gameplanning is ratcheted up considerably.

Sometimes I feel like what Brian said above and wonder what they'd be capable of with just a shadow of a center, but I come back to the same thing, they still won't work.

For starters, you don't have enough shooting if you have a dump-down guy. Andre can't be depended upon to consistently drain perimeter J's and Evan is Evan, not exactly who you want on the outside with a look at an open jumper. Jrue looks like he could be an adequate option depending what day and week of the month it is.

Second, if you have that low-block guy the lane will be clogged up for the three ball-handlers/initiators limiting their ability to penetrate and pick their spots.

Now, if you had that semblance of a big and he was athletic and savvy enough to succeed in a pick-and-roll setting I think you still would be limited. If the pass to the big is covered on his roll and the defender being screened just goes under most of the time then it goes back to not having enough shooting. Of course, if the defender goes over the screen these three guys can manufacture a look and at the least force the defense to scramble, if they don't finish themselves.

I just don't see this trio going anywhere and the often thrown around "no one will score on them though" is beyond far-fetched. They're three above-average defenders (at times), but only one of them is even close to being a lock-down guy (and even he's showing warts lately).

Somebody has to be moved, preferably for a big. A collection of top of the line Volkswagen's is never going to equal a Lamborghini, no matter how many of them you accumulate.

I waver on who you should move and who can bring you back the most (obviously Andre), but my choice would be Turner because I don't want to let Andre go because of his versatility. And Jrue I'm just not sure of and can't really get a handle on, but he's begun to look more moveable with his deficiencies at setting others up or getting to the free throw line (two crucial aspects I like in a PG). Turner's the choice because I think his game is limited and easier to gameplan for and shut down. You dare him to shoot, play off his dribble and give him room, sagging to cut down on his angles to drive. And like Stacey King mentioned last night, after he waxes fancy with his dribble it's like it takes him two weeks to get the shot off (his shot was swatted out of bounds on this play). He's ball-dominant which diminishes his versatility on the offensive end.

As appealing as this lineup and trio is to some segments of our fanbase, I'm of the opinion that you're still going to be mediocre, just maybe on the upper end of it. Pretty much the worst place to be ... good enough to not be bad but not bad enough to get good.

Change something, is all I'm really saying. Doug has de-boned all the chicken he can for the salad he's trying to make out of shit.

Unfortunately you cannot trade 3 top of the line V's for a Lamborghini either.

Also, offensively you could argue the team has 4 players masquerading as PG's.

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Spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 12:28
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I don't think you can say they won't work yet. First off they work great defensively in our coach's switching system being interchangeable.

Secondly, Iggy and Jrue seem to be doing fine from long distance and Turner has shot better with more minutes. Add a stretch four[Ilyasova?] this summer if you feel you want more shooting but it may not be necessary.

Let's try calling them guards and forwards or just basketball players for a change. They can't be easy to gameplan for not knowing who will be on a wing or handling the ball different times down the floor.


They are the strength of this team, in my opinion, why weaken it.

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eddies' heady's reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 13:45
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Others can allow for more observation time but I stand by my declarative statement on the trio.

Them being the strength of the team is exactly the reason I'm saying something has to change. You've got to give something up to get a big.

It will be interesting to see how much better each of the current pieces perform if/when the Sixers acquire that missing athletic big... Sort of like how we wondered how go the AI Sixers would have been if they had a great 2 way big to team up with AI (sayKG).

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Spencer for hire reply to tk76 on Mar 18 at 12:17
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Hopefully the big we need becomes available for cap space with the new C.B.A. taking effect. Guys like Okafor and Jefferson may not be ideal for a lot of reasons but if you add them without giving away much it would improve us.

Jefferson is 2 years removed from the knee issue and looks lighter and is passing better this season. He would bring some physicalness offensively and could hurt Miami inside.

But if our coach keeps failing to attack mismatches [Elton on Boozer?] than it won't matter.

ELton Brand the second day after a back to back isn't all that useful in general no matter who is guarding him...it's one of many problems

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Spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Mar 18 at 12:31
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Very true. Do you think an offensive mind added to Collin's staff could help?

I think collins does the best he can with the offensive assets the sixers have. They are a flawed team, at multiples positions, but their entire front court is a disaster

Sorry for phone induced typos.

I am starting to get more frustrated with the offensive system that Collin's uses more than I am frustrated with the players.

What offensive system would you advise for the mismatched roster?

Something that doesn't involve LouWill playing the final 5 minutes since it usually guarantees we lose the game (Laker game being the sole exception).

An offence that doesnt have player settling for jump shots. This team is way more suited for them to get to the rim than to shoot jump shots. There are go give and go's, no ally opps, no cuts to the rim for such a team with players that are able yo makeghood passes.

They also lack a suitable big to run the P&R or even finish in traffic off of a good pass. Thad should be that guy, but for some reason is not used in that role.

I disagree with you assessment of what would be a good offense for a team with no big men of quality

But in this offence the bigs are setting pick on both sides of the foul line. That usually leaves them out of position to rebound let alone post up. If these bigs are supposed to be passer friendly why is there noone making backdoor cuts or running give and go's?

The strength of this team is supposed to be athletic wing player who can slash and get to the rim why are we so horrible at getting to the rim in the half court? We start three players now that can pass and finish at or near the rim but they settle for jumpshots.

Jrue: Worst 30 pt. game I've seen in a while, an AAU special. Not impressed. It's a team game; has to develop habit of getting others involved. Too much 'me'.

Evan: Fat head and disproportionate game (nice size/length, light on athleticism, relatively speaking); tantrums'll get him nowhere. Poor shot selection last night.

Iguodala: Loves the mind games of the individual defensive challenge, doesn't love the rough stuff in spite of showy muscles.

Brand: Reminds me of two Willie Nelson songs, "Angel Flyin' Too Close To The Ground" & "The Party's Over." Snacks on hacks.

Lou: Up-and-down scorer; graduate of the Curly Howard School of Defense.

Spencer: A center who prefers the upper key region of the court. "Fetch that man a latte with whipped creme and cinnamon sprinkles!"

Sam Young: New previously-owned vehicle in the garage after a long trip.

Doug Collins: Flummoxed and flustrated [a portmanteau word] against top teams. If slide continues, his reactions will fascinate.

Decision-makers are too sentimental. When teams start commercializing unis, Hallmark should be sewn on Sixers.

On the positive side, the Charlotte Bobkittens are next. If they can't beat them, "well kiss maah gritz."

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Marcus reply to Dollar Bill on Mar 18 at 13:35
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More haters on deck I see.

You a lover of last night's effort? Or the last 23, in which they've gone 9-14? If you are, you settle for mediocrity.

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Marcus reply to Marcus on Mar 18 at 15:19
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U and gdog are some haters just come out the closet bro u guys always got something negative to say even when they win if u going to hate that's fine but don't come on here and front like u root for the Sixers.

When Lou came in for Turner in the 4th, the Bulls went on an offensive rebound surge that killed us. What a shocker, you remove your best defensive rebounder and suddenly the opposing team gets a bunch of o-boards.

You enjoy blaming Lou for everything.

The sixers were outplayed in the third, with or without Lou on the floor...lots of people played badly last night INCLUDING Evan Turner, please see that...

I wasn't blaming Lou, I was blaming Collins. He took out his best rebounder and then we couldn't get a rebound at the end of the game. It killed us.

Well it didn't kill you, or the sixers, any more than the fact that the offense died sometime in the 2nd quarter and never came back.

If Turner's your best defensive rebounder, you've seriously misappropriated your organization's resources.
Bigs are the problem. Who on Sixers matched Noah's & Asik's will to get the ball last night?

That's fine but it's a separate point. The fact remains that Turner is our best defensive rebounder, Collins benched him in the 4th, and the unsurprising result was we couldn't grab a rebound.

My position is, Turner doesn't make a DECISIVE difference in that regard last night even with your referenced Q4 PT. (His rebounding numbers are somewhat fluffy.) It's academic now.

And can't neglect to mention Taj Gibson's work; played a real nice 22 minutes.

We have to work with what we have ..... Hopefully we can get better in the off season.

It wasn't an efficient 30 (27 shots, 4 FTA), but it was more efficient than the rest of the team was, so it's not like he was hurting them by gunning

I think that's a little overly simplistic way of looking at an offense, and a little contradictory to those who oppose iso-ball. It's the argument that's been made against Anthony for years.

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Spencer for hire reply to Derek Bodner on Mar 18 at 14:47
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Derek, First round pick for the sixers, Royce White, would ya?

Ask me around draft time. I have my concerns.

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eddies' heady's reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 14:53
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If he or C.J. Leslie come out, I'd much rather have Leslie.

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Spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 15:00
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Neither seem a great fit here but White has special talent that may outweigh his issues with a pick in the 20's, similar to how Cousins was risky top 3 but worth the risk at 5.

My problem with Leslie is his size. Is he 6'9"? Or is he Thad's size.

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eddies' heady's reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 15:09
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He's a legit 6'9. And quick as lightning when facing up, and has a decent handle for that height. Really good weakside help type guy. Just wish he could shoot, has a funky form where he sort of projects the ball at the hoop. Another year of college would be good for him but with this Sweet 16 run he's gonna be tempted.

What do you feel is White's 'special talent'?

Problem I see is his special talent becomes diminished if he's not good enough to be the focal point of the offense.

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Spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 15:16
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Being a star. Other than Davis I haven't seen a better player all tournament. He was a top 20 recruit before his issues were discovered but there are a lot of questions, as Derek suggested.

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Spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Mar 18 at 15:23
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When a player does as well as he did against Kentucky scouts I would think take notice because it is doing it against N.B.A. type talent.

Haven't seen the game yet, but the success he had certainly bodes well for his stock.

Again, ask me for my full opinion before the draft. I just want to watch more.

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eddies' heady's reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 22:35
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Really? You'd honestly say that he's been better than C.J. Leslie just in both their two games this tournament?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. In Anthony's case, you've usually got him using 25 shots to get 25 points while the rest of the team uses 65 to get 70, so in effect he's worse than the rest of the team. Last night, jrue did more with his 27 than the rest of the team with their (on my phone, don't have the numbers in front of me). Two different arguments.

I don't particularly like that type of imbalance, especially on the Sixers, but when no one else on the team is scoring efficiently at all (and your bigs can't finish a point blank dunk when you set them up) I can't say I really blame Jrue for taking 27 shots.

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Rich reply to Brian on Mar 18 at 17:14
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The way Jrue used those possessions is much different from NYK too. Anthony will catch it with 15 seconds and end the possession. Jrue didn't do that at all last night. Plus, his teammates weren't good at all last night.

I'm saying a lack of ball movement will contribute to otherwise ineffective scoring by those not touching the ball and finding their rhythm.

Granted, I haven't watched the game yet, but the blanket philosophy of "he was more efficient than his teammates, ergo him gunning didn't negatively impact his team" I don't agree I think is often times faulty logic.

I did mention in that same paragraph that he should've had 8 or 9 assists to go along w/ the 30 points, if Hawes wasn't a useless basketball player. In this case, I honestly don't think Jrue was doing anything but taking the bad shots someone else would've had to take, and doing more with them than the other guys would've based on their production last night.

Like I said, I didn't watch the game, and wasn't responding to whether Jrue hurt the team, as I don't know. I just don't agree with the statement I quoted, in principle. I think it's overly simplified. That's all.

If it was made in a vacuum, I'd agree.

Not really a deflating loss for the Sixers. I didn't think they would win anyway. 30 points on 27 shots for Jrue isn't doing anything but padding his stats.
Knicks look like they are playing solid again once they got rid of D'antoni. Celtics can pull it together if they have a lot of rest. I'm not sure who's going to win the Atlantic---but I doubt it will be the Sixers. The team over the last 25 games has been awful and not really worthy of a playoff seed anyway. They should make the playoffs but unless they get a high seed it will be another first round exit. They aren't beating Chicago, Miami or Orlando and would be lucky to get anything more than a game(or possibly 2 against orlando) .

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Spencer for hire reply to Gdog on Mar 18 at 14:45
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The defense has remained the best and the team's ppg. are up which would seem to be a recipe for wins. But with all the roles slightly changing and Hawes back it may take a little while to work out.

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Spencer for hire reply to Spencer for hire on Mar 18 at 15:24
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Sorry, meant to reply to eddies.

Eddies, I will say that Draymond Green is an excellent, excellent college player. I don't think he'll be able to do a lot of the stuff he does, like run 4-5 pick and rolls, in the NBA at all really. At this level though, he is a very good player.

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Spencer for hire reply to Rich on Mar 18 at 17:40
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Rich, it amazes me that guys like D. Green, Darius Miller and Y.Gates may not get drafted. I thought Miller would be a perfect fit as a backup 3 here before they acquired S.Young. But teams will take upside over the known as usual probably.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Mar 18 at 22:33
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He's gonna be a straight stud at the next level the way I see him. Just like Kevin Love was slept on, he will be too. If he's a projected late 1st/early 2nd round pick, you take him at where the Sixers are likely to be picking, he's that good to me. The guy is talented, but just as much intangibly as tangibly. That's hard to find. Saying he is only a good player at one level is trying to pigeon-hole or better yet suppress or restrain him.

I've never been a fan of the upside thing over proven guys, too many don't pan out as such. Draymond is too heady and skilled and can shoot it to boot. There's nothing that I can put my finger on as to why he won't translate in a multitude of roles. His back to the basket game isn't even tapped yet, or often with Izzo.

The comparison isn't meant as apt, or even fair, but you have to look at him like a mini-Magic but in a 4-man, 3-man-tweener bulky type body, with a handle and vision, and ability to decisively execute what that vision just saw.

I'd love to have him, or take a chance on him that late.

...Kevin Love was the 5th overall pick in the draft, and traded for the 3rd pick in the same draft. He was universally expected to go between 3 and 5. I'm not sure how much he was really slept on (overrating Michael Beasley was the bigger problem of that draft).

But yes, I think it would be ridiculous if Green doesn't get drafted.

Draymond is 22 year old 4th year PF listed at 6'6 235 who averages 12.4 boards per 40 min.

Love was drafted as a 19 year old true freshman PF listed at 6'9, 255lbs who averaged 14.4 reb/40 min at age 19. I think that speaks to a bit to why he seemed to project better as an impact pro. Not to mention everything else Love brought to the table.

Rebounding translates well from college to the pros, so Green should be a good rebounder in the NBA and has a nice all around feel for the game. But to throw Love out there as a comparison seems off.

The problem with Green is he has absolutely no position to defend. I'm not sure I can see him being more than a 20 minute per game player because of that. But he's definitely a player in the league, IMO.

Draymond will find a spot in the league, he falls right inot the some undersized post role that Davis, Bass and Blair play. His abilities will give some matchups fits and he'll be completely ineffective against others.

A great 2nd round pick based on being game ready and his energy/skill level.

That's a bit different than 'straight stud' would you not agree?

What's with the whole business about restraining and suppressing? I said he was good at one level and that I don't think he'll be nearly good at another level. My words won't be the reason he does whatever he does.

I don't see him developing a post game at all. Izzo has let guys play on the post in his career (Paul Davis in the past, Derrick Nix now) so you can't blame that on him. Green's a perimeter player, and that's his strength on that level.

That's a problem on both ends of the floor, because he's not big enough. Kevin Love is a good three inches taller than him, and he's still a below average NBA defender. The SLU guys were shooting over Green at will today. If that's a starting NBA 4, like Elton Brand even, they'd have no problem getting what they wanted against him. That's legitimately a huge problem. Who can he guard?

I think he's a great passer and a pretty good, not great shooter, but he doesn't have three point range or anything. Plus, I don't think in the NBA he could be able to have an offense run through him. Best case to me seems like a solid 7th/8th man. He doesn't really have a position to defend though.

I'm always amazed by this teams's dichotomy in terms of close games. Just looking at the ESPN standings:

21W -6L: Games decided by 10 or more points
4W - 14L: Games within 9 points.

Portland (15-10 vs 6-13) is the only other team remotely resembling the Sixers in this regard (and another team who has faded.)

As to why...
1. No go to players or plays down the stretch.
2. No quality post or P&R threat. No "star."
3. They may have a good defense, but they are soft. So when push comes to shove late in a game they are the team that gets shoved and the other team gets O-boards on critical possessions.

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anonymous on Mar 18 at 20:02
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The 3-point percentages hovering around .250 could be part of the issue. We outrebounded the heat and took 19 more shots. Bulls not so much but seems to me we need to get better looks.

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matt reply to anonymous on Mar 18 at 20:34
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Fouls twist stats like those

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anonymous reply to matt on Mar 19 at 9:56
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Sometimes, but not in the game against the heat. They had only 5 more foul shots which cost them about 2 or 3 regular shots, bringing the 19 shot differnce down to 16 or 17.

Not to mention while being a good defensive team, we are not very good at causing turnovers and getting into transition for easy baskets. everythings a struggle.

The Nuggets officially waived Turiaf today

They should sign him, but I'm sure there's a softer guy out there somewhere they have their eye on.

Rumors are that the Celtics are looking at him...Wyc will spend the money - I think they're dumping JO as well.

Turiaf would immediately become the best sixers big man under 30

Another day I have to root for the heat - disappointing

Ric Bucher putting Otis on the spot on the live broadcast.

Anyone believe Otis will be employed after the season ends?

That was the first time I've seen him really talk. He impressed me about as much as his personnel moves have.

Ditto. He sounded like a man with no clue.

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matt reply to GoSixers on Mar 18 at 22:43
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They can't fire him until the Dwight saga has ended now. It wouldn't be loyal

I'm pretty sure Dwight can fire him.

Firing him before Dwight leaves almost lets him off the hook.


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