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A Dark, Dark Day

Oh man, the Hawes line is too good. The GOP should be ashamed to have him #Lessthan00

that picture is worth a 1,000 words

eddies' heady's on Apr 4 at 22:20

Yes, I can still laugh. LOL, that was good.

Hahahahaha best game writeup ever!

Nope, team record is 29-25, and falling.

That line about how you've spent too much time caring about this team...I'm right there with you.

If the FO doesn't at least attempt to address the glaring needs this off-season I will crucify a cat.

Fixed. The record, not the team.

Not really sure what they can do to get better, the sixers are capped out and mediocre, and their 'rookie contract' guys, none of em, look like 'stars', let alone superstars yet...the worry is that aron and his cronies are so in love with the fans showing up and the 'fan experience' improvements that they think that people will show up to watch the 500 make the playoffs and lose in the first round team year after year...at this point, I hope attendance dips the rest of the season so as not to con them into thinking folks show up for anything but a team that wins.

Iguodala is probably having his best 'perceived' season whether it is his best season or not so it's time to move him...amnesty brand so you have cap room to facilitate things (andrew bynum and the lakers are headed off a cliff soon, and the clippers might be headed off a quick one too), don't pay spencer, pray lou opts out, let doug resign instead of firing him (he's old, vertigo, whatever, make something up).

Blow this damn thing up - cause you're stuck in the no mans land of the nba and there's no way to get out of it with out a lot of pain and suffering

Only three home games left, and I think Saturday night will probably be a sell out. They'll give tickets away to fill it up on 'Fan Appreciation Night.'

Can't wait to see Lou address the crowd.

Sigh...that just sucks...I didn't realize the end of the season for this (yet again) 500 team.

I mean - take away the jordan year as the aberration and they've been 500 and out in the first round for four straight seasons (presuming a first round loss this year) - i mean someone has to see the pattern who works for the sixers - right?

South Broad on Apr 4 at 22:29

Is that where Thorn's been hiding, under that bag?

He's just keeping his mouth shut hoping he can get a few more paychecks before the can him

Obviously, guarding LeBron isn't the best barometer, but Harden is a terrible on-the-ball defender. Someone's going to exploit that at some point in the playoffs.

The Thunder are a bad defensive team in a lot of ways, they're just sickly efficient offensively...I wonder if a healthy Memphis could take them in 7...could you imagine if speights somehow went off in a 7 game series against the thunder...that would be awesome.

I just wonder which one they're going to let go - Bennet isn't going to pay harden and ibaka market value...

Bet they wish they didn't extend Perkins. Could've used that money on Ibaka.

It goes w/out saying I hope they give Harden the max and let Ibaka walk to the Sixers.

Yeah I couldn't believe they gave Perkins that money. Such an overrated player. Plus he has a huge inferiority complex (flipping out when C-Webb says he's not very good and going nuts when LeBron said Blake had a big dunk on him).

Big inferiority complex - he's a sixers fan

Could they win a title with perkins starting?

I think the presti 'wunderkind' thing is a bit overblown since lottery luck got them durant, and westbrook was the guy to pick at the spot...maybe some other teams passed on him that shouldn't have...but that happens in every draft. If Bennet makes Presti make a choice between Harden and Ibaka, that'll be where Presti proves it.

And on cue Perkins blows a huge layup.

And misses the two free throws :)

And misses both freebies. Ugly. Sixersesque.

Presti made Cole Aldrich a lottery pick, to me that alone eliminates any thought of him as someone who truly knows what he's doing.

NIce seeing Westbrook whine about a call in a one-point game instead of getting back on D.

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 14:23

They can always amnesty Perkins. I think if Boston had a healthy Perkins in '10 they would have won the championship.

I just realized (also while doing the dishes, it's good think time) I am not even looking forward to the baseball season - ever since I saw Ryan Howard go down in that last game against the Cardinals I was dreading this season...then the Utley thing, man - are all the philly teams headed to mediocrity?

Phillies will be good this year. Unless one of their aces get injured, they should win the division.

big deal - the sixers might still win the division too...at some point doing the same thing every year isn't progress

Phillies are a team that could use a new manager. Winning a world series should not make you manager for your life, Boston learned that and the Phils should too.

except that a playoff series in baseball is less predictable than in basketball.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 23:04

Couldn't be different, actually. Once you get in the baseball playoffs, everyone has a chance.

eddies' heady's on Apr 4 at 23:20

Seems so long ago doesn't it when the team possessed that thing called the bench brigade?

eddies' heady's on Apr 4 at 23:30

BTW in what was an otherwise good article, that Iguodala comment was an absolute no-no in my book. You just don't say that in a public forum no matter how true or how you really feel. Just not good to see, no matter how it's spun.

It'd be like Lou saying how he doesn't get that someone that plays stellar D can't shoot a 15 foot free uncontested shot worth a damn. I'd guess if Lou did do that the board would be in meltdown mode; Andre says it, not so much.

Good point. Agree.

Philadelphia doesn't like Iguodala because, bricks aside, he's a put-on. Easy to see through him.

Philadelphia doesn't like Iguodala because 90% of the fans have the IQs of tsetse flies and can't think the game any deeper than PPG.

You like to believe that. Iguodala has been/is a hoax.
I say that from conviction, not to personally affront.

By no means do I like the fact that Sixers fans are, by and large, morons. You're atypical in that you're less a mouthbreather, more a senile baby boomer with too much time on his hands and an illogical vendetta against the guy.

If this team is, in fact, plateaued at or around .500 and first-round fodder for legit contenders, it's because Iguodala elevates them to that level, not because he holds them back from being something more. Anyone who can't see that is an imbecile or being intentionally obtuse. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think you've earned it. Now write me some prose about a sinking ship or something.

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 9:54


Quote for Truth or Quite Frankly Told?

bebopdeluxe reply to Jeff on Apr 5 at 11:16

Quoted For Truth

Ryan F reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 11:01


Well it is the 100th anniversary of the titanic this weekend, one could say the ice berg has been headed for the sixers for a few years now and no one bothered to get out of the way?

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 14:39

This is the point of the season where we should flourish not falter. I thought we were a young team with a deep bench.

I say that from conviction, not to personally affront.

You say it from opinion, pure and simple, facts belie your 'conviction' - but you ignore them - which puts you in the 90%

So you piggyback on Brian's wild and arbitrary 90% estimate and try to pass along his out-of-his-ass number as fact. Doesn't work, chief. That 90% "theory" is a self-serving, Iggy-protecting canard. Philly fans discern clowns and poseurs, thus Iguodala's lack of popularity.

Who is the one and only constant on Sixers roster for the last 8 yrs of serial mediocrity (294-334)? That's right, #9, #9, #9... Mr. Woebegone - wealthy owner/developer of "Iggyocrity," the hardwood on which failure is, of course, everyone else's fault.

In my opinion his estimate is way low, as it dovetails with my 95% estimate of the world population

Another wild number, and self-congratulatingly smug. To each his own delusions.

That gave me a laugh, probably not for reasons you expect, but thanks for the laugh, and with that I bid you adieu

Wow, a free cryptogram from a shifty Frenchman! Merci, Monsieur Expatriate.

I don't really want to attack you and your Lou boner all that much, but I think you are pretty much way off base with all of your comparisons. Should he have said that in public? I don't know, but it's nice somebody did. You'll never hear Doug Collins say it.

If Andre Iguodala (40 percent this season from three), can't shoot for a damn, than I'd like to know what Lou Williams (37 percent) is considered as doing. Who gives a shit about 15 foot jumpers? Anything including and between that and the three point line is the worst shot in basketball, and the reason our offense can be painful to watch. Lou shoots forty percent from that spot too, so big whoop. He scores 8 points every 10 shots from there, Iguodala 6. That shot means nothing.

There is no reason Lou Williams shouldn't be a pest on the defensive end of the floor. His slender build prevents him from being a complete lockdown defender, but his superb athleticism gives him all of the tools to be an excellent on the ball defender. Yet, he just doesn't give any effort on that end, to the point where Ben Uzoh is blowing by him, missing layups, getting his own board and basically doing whatever he wants. That's all about effort, and Iguodala is right to feel that way.

Just because Iguodala can't shoot, that doesn't mean he doesn't work his ass off on it. That's pretty much something he can't improve on. That's why he said it, because he sees how easy shooting/scoring comes to Lou compared to him. All Lou would need to do is give effort on the other end, and he doesn't. That would frustrate me too.

johnrosz reply to Rich on Apr 5 at 2:06

I think the equal "jab" if you want to call it that, would be Lou pondering why Andre Iguodala can't shoot free throws better than Anthony Mason.

But anyway, I'm more concerned tonight with our head coach. I thought at some point he would lose the team, maybe next year, or the following year, but I'm kind of scared that it's happening right before our eyes.

Rich reply to johnrosz on Apr 5 at 2:33

Free throws aren't half of the game like defense is. I wouldn't call that equal at all.

mchezo reply to Rich on Apr 5 at 13:05

Lou is not a lazy defender. he is definitely not the best defender but he does try most of the time. characterizing him as a defender who does not give effort is inaccurate in my opinion.

Rich reply to mchezo on Apr 5 at 13:27

I don't know, he's pretty damn lazy to me. Likes to play way off people. Try and watch that next time they play and see how easy it is to drive against him.

bebopdeluxe on Apr 4 at 23:55

Pretty clear that the intense pace that these guys have played at - particularly on defense - is now taking a toll. What I don't get is at a time that they are feeling MAJOR fatigue, DC actually SHORTENS the bench. Why the f did they trade for Sam Young if they can't even give him 6-8 minutes of burn? Based on how pathetic Hawes has been, would a few minutes from Allen be THAT much of a drop off?

Thad looks completely gassed. Turner had ZERO juice tonight. Too many jumpers - which is just lazy, tired offense. And the effort on the defensive boards in the 4th quarter was disgusting. I understand why Collins benched Turner - especially after he fouled Derozan on that 3-point attempt - but it also makes a mediocre-to-poor rebounding team truly laughable.

It will be interesting to see what happens the next two games. If they don't show up and lose both, it will probably be time to start rooting for the Bucks.

Evan Turner probably wanted to show everything he had versus Miami, I'm sure he lacked energy tonight as did others. Seeing the way DC handled him that game I'm sure he's both disappointed and angry and doesn't know what to do anymore, resulting in a game like this. This is all on DC.

As a professional he should go out there every game as perfect as possible and there shouldn't be any excuses for not doing that. But DC has created a toxic situation and I think he's losing touch with his players. Speaking from my own experiences I'd be going mad if I was in ET's position, and this doesn't have anything to do with IQ you can have my word on that.

bebopdeluxe reply to HendrikDB on Apr 5 at 8:24

I am as much of a Turner booster as anybody around here, and I would agree that he REALLY gets up for Miami and was probably pretty gassed after playing 40 minutes and having to deal with LBJ...but as Collins basically said after last night's game, this is a big-boy league, and you need to find a way to have more jump than he showed last night.

While my focus was/is on the whole team, I could not help but be struck by Turner's facial expressions and body language at points last night. It is SO disappointing that a guy who has carried himself as THE MAN throughout his basketball career can get so emotionally knocked off-stride when things don't go his way. Stuff like that can easily offset (in the eyes of his coaches and teammates) the good stuff like his play in Miami.

The team looks collectively like dead man walking.

Hmm, I believe someone mention something about the baseball season starting.

Go 76ers (you're on borrowed time now)

honestly I'd pay good money to hear Iguodala quotes; they are so blunt and apolitical, it sounds like something funny from the Daily Show.

What's the deal with Young? The Raptors commentators hinted numerous times of a problem between him and Collins regarding minutes. That's really weird considering Collins has repeatedly said Young is his favorite player.

I am becoming disgusted with the play in the last few weeks. The offense is just at a D-league level and that is unacceptable. Something has to be done. And i mean drastic. I was/am a supporter of winning, but something is clearly wrong with the team right now.

Oh yeah and on a side not 7 points in the 4th quarter. 7. And 3 points in the last 9 or so minutes. That is epic bad.

johnrosz reply to Xsago on Apr 5 at 2:22

Players are getting fed up with DC. People don't change, he's still the annoying/controlling micromanager that can't last at any of his stops I'm afraid. A shame too, because he knows the game and he's a genuinely good guy, just that type A personality that can't seem to mesh

bebopdeluxe reply to johnrosz on Apr 5 at 8:41

While I do not think he is in the same league as Larry Brown, I think they both share a trait in that they are basketball "purists" who will fall in love with limited players who play with intensity and try to "play the right way" (Meeks and Don Reid for Collins, Lynch and Ty Hill/Skeletor for LB). They look at teams with limitations as a challenge...they do a good initial job restructuring and optimizing the resoruces, getting them to overachieve...but for the most part, those teams eventually fall apart because they simply do not have enough talent to take the next step, and what players initially accept in coaching - because it leads to more wins - eventually become grating. The coach cannot get any more blood from a stone, the limited players hit their plateau and cannot take their games any further, and the good players start hearing the coach's screeching in their sleep.

That is why the Collins/LB cycle only lasts 3 years.

Unfortunately, we may have combined years 2 and 3 in one year with Collins with this compressed schedule.

well...at least we're not the Bobcats...

I'd rather be in the bobcats position than the sixers position, at least the bobcats have a chance to get better

jswigga on Apr 5 at 9:15

yo. Johnrosz and Bebop hit it spot on. DC gotta go.
When I first heard he was coming out of the booth I was bitter. "We don't need that old man," I thought to myself. Than I saw him roll up his sleeves and get to work. Initially I was impressed and even surprised at how boneheaded I was for not giving him a chance.

But more and more it appears that Collins lacks the ability to get thru to the players. I know he is a general with the Xs and Os, but it doesn't mean anything if the players are playing hard. Look at Brooks' squad; Thib's squad; Vogel's squad... Shoot even Del Negro has his boys hustling. Then you got the OG workaholics: Pop, Carlisle and Skiles. Everybody on them squads competes every night. Are those teams all better than the 6ers? No Way! Ok, not thaaaaaat much better. But one thing is they are all coached better. Those players come to play every night - win or lose - and they gritty as all getup.

Sixers don't need some franchise player to come and rescue them from mediocrity... they need to hustle harder. First step: everyone takes hard look in the mirror, nuts up and blazes into the paint on EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION.

bebopdeluxe reply to jswigga on Apr 5 at 10:01

I agree with a lot of this post...the only thing I would say is while it might be desirable to "nut up" (love that phrase) on every single possession, I think that can be done without anguishing about every blown assignment or mistake that is made out there. At some point, you install your system, make sure that people know their roles (VERY important, IMO...and one of Collins' biggest weaknesses, in my eyes) and then let the players compete.

And - just as Turner's facial expressions and body language may drive people nutty, watching Collins live and die with every possession on the bench has GOT to have an impact on the players. GOT to.

Sixers don't need some franchise player to come and rescue them from mediocrity... they need to hustle harder. First step: everyone takes hard look in the mirror, nuts up and blazes into the paint on EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION.

This is a ridiculous assertion right here...you need talent to win in the NBA, not just hustle - or reggie evans would be a perpetual all-star (then again he was beloved by the 90%)

Not to mention, you can't just drive into the paint with wreckless abandon on every single possession.

Driving is important, but the sixers also lack the personnel to score frequently in the paint.

Well, driving helps, and some sixers can finish at the basket better than others (Lou, Jrue, and sometimes evan, but he seems to drive right into people) it also helps to have at least one big who isn't entirely useless in the low post :)

The sixers have been stuck in neutral for years now, and a 500 team is what they have been, are, and will remain unless massive overhaul is done, and yes, that will require sucking for some time, cause that's how the NBA works...

In addition; I think they're just tired. as bebopdeluxe said.

I was wondering what playing Sixer defense with flaccid bigs would do to them. Maybe this is it.

Perhaps it's also the extra effort that's needed to be exerted on the perimeter to make-up for the sub-par front court defense.

bebopdeluxe reply to Jeff on Apr 5 at 11:17


Collins deserves plenty of blame for this collapse, but it's crazy to think after 4 coaches since '07 and 3 (about to be 4) 1st round exits that the #1 problem is anything but the players. the team is built completely backwards, they have perimeter players who rebound and defend, yet no big man who protects the paint. the structure of the roster is flawed and has been for years. no coach can fix that.

eddies' heady's reply to Mike on Apr 5 at 9:47

totally agree with this. I'm not convinced that Doug has lost these guys. They were lost from the jump, Doug just ran upon a GPS with batteries that were almost done. The Energizer bunny hath stopped. And for that, I am glad (paging the FO).

The collection of pussies that peeked through during the EJ year have now returned. No heart or toughness from any of them except Brand. Their collective will is sorely absent.

You want sooo badly to believe in Doug Collins...this is most interestinhg for what it says about you...I would bet anything that you are middle aged and white

Hobbes on Apr 5 at 9:26

The limitations of each and every player on this roster has haunted and continues to haunt this team.

Meeks, Hawes? I'm not even bothering to mention them. They're both lucky to be in the league.

Williams? Just let him go, already! He's a poor man's Iverson, and as good as he can be on occasion on the offensive side, he's pretty weak sauce as an end-of-game isolation guy. He's also streaky. He cant' guard a shadow. Reading between the lines, he and Iggy aren't best friends?! We can't use him in any kind of trade in an effort to improve our starting five?

If Iguodala was in a wine store five years ago, the sign above him would say, "$18.99, retail value $35.99." Management bought him at retail value. In truth, he's matured in the last two years and is now probably a pretty good $24.99 bottle of red, but that's paying too much if you bought that bottle to impress some chick you met at the bar last week, and he's not refined enough to impress the boss's daughter that you're having over the next night. Oh, yeah, and he's peaked, too. With each successive year, this bottle of wine tastes more and more shattered. Every team needs vets, but do they need this one? The other night, I heard him in an interview saying he could think his way through any game. Obviously, his brain stops working in interviews, as saying to a national reporter that Williams can't guard a shadow isn't too slick!

Turner, in year two, is so limited offensively that he can't be anything but alarmingly inconsistent. His jumper sucks ass, and bad: 44% from 3-9 ft, 39% from 10-15 ft, 35% from 16-23 ft, 24% from the 3, and 65% from the charity stripe. Those numbers are beyond terrible. And, frankly, he's a natural nothing, position-wise. He's a fau-PG, and can't ever be confused with a SG. Ship him out, our ship out Iggy so Turner can try that spot, because he's got no business being a guard in this league. If he's a scorer, then he better learn to shoot.

Jrue Holiday. He's inconsistent as hell, and he's a poor floor general. Our third-year PG is 34th in the league in assists--on a team that's (shockingly) 14th in the league in FG %. He's the best we have for that position, and I suppose he's young and all, but he's just plain unreliable to this point in his career and I wouldn't blame ownership if they cut bait on him if some other PG gamble came along.

Thad Young, good lunch-pailing offensive player, but for God's sake he's PF/SF hybrid who neither controls an offense, not shuts down a player, nor pulls down boards. Five rebounds per game is a yawner. Pretty soft.

Embarassingly, Brand is my favorite player on the team. And he's old car with ripped upolstery. But he's not afraid to bruise it up, when he's got his legs his short jumper is pretty solid, he's smart on the court, and he keeps his mouth shut. Unfortunately, he's a gas guzzler and he's got a date with the junkyard.

Anybody who wants to go forward with a core of these players may as well build a house on sand down at the beach, hurricane-east-side.

eddies' heady's reply to Hobbes on Apr 5 at 9:40

^ what he said

the coach hasn't lost anything, if anything it just shows what a marvel of a job DC was able to do to squeeze what looked like blood out of a turnip. It's the players and has always been the players, even during the EJ year.

Couldn't have said it any better than you did regarding Turner and Jrue, I've pretty much reached my wits end with those two. Jrue looks nothing close to a must-keep. Turner, well, he's been garbage since he arrived, summer league was the harbinger. I was one of the main proponents on here of trading Iguodala two years ago when rumors were flying and when his value was probably at it's highest but stopped beating that drum and it looks like that ship has sailed considering his body now breaking down along with his game.

Would like to have a beer with you, good convo abound! Thanks for expressing those thoughts that are eerily similar to my own.

The coach has lost the team...

I want to agree with this, and will try to patiently wait until the end of the season to make a full judgement.

that's 99% speculation, and 1% fact.

Most of the comments here are 99% speculation :) Evan Turner 'hatred' is speculation, it takes evidence of things seen and draws conclusions that most except the most rabid turnerites feel is paranoid conspiracy theory.

You know what's fact...fact is that no matter how 'great' doug collins has been in other places, which have ALWAYS played better his first couple years - he's never made it all the way through season 3. That's fact. And I never believed he'd make it through season 3 in Philadelphia, and I still don't. I just think they'll be nice about it and he'll resign for 'health' or 'family' reasons in the off season.

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 11:19

I think the compressed season has given us Seasons 2 (20-9) and Season 3 (right now) in one.

And I disagree entirely.

I think this season played out in reverse to last season, they started out like crap last season, then turned it around and played hot for a time and then settled into mediocrity.

This year they started out hot, then played like crap and now they're back to where they always have been, mediocre, average, 500, middle of the pack.

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 11:34

that's fine - you can disagree entirely

and I disagree with you


Disagree all you want, it's not two seasons - it's one season - at the end of the season they'll probably be around 500 - and they 'are who they are' - they are who the record says they are - around 500...hot streaks, cold streaks, bad losses, good wins, in the end, 500 is 500, different road, same destination

Just saying, it's the dennis green thing, by the end of the season, they are who they are, you can't parse it to try and make it fit a world view you want to have. It's one season, good bad and ugly

I think it would be prudent to be measured when expressing thoughts right after a horrible loss. I could rehash comments from the Sixers highest point (say the win over the Bulls or the Lakers); point is, a team does not all of a sudden just become useless. It's problematic but I'd save all that for the off-season.

I think Williams fits a need for a bench player, he's atop in 6th man production in terms of points, which is pretty much what 6th men are brought in for. I dont know any 6th man that has been brought in to play lock-down defense. We can definitely do better but I dont think he's hurting us, if used properly that is. He is good value for a contending team.

You killed any objective Iguodala argument by citing his contract. This and last season has made me believe he is not overpaid, maybe even underpaid. Simply because he means more to this team than he would on a contender. But with regards to the future, I think he may be a luxury that we can't afford unless something changes. And by changes, I mean enter superstar.

Turner is an enigma to me. Not ready to write him off. But it doesnt look good for him so far.

Disappointment in Jrue might be a product of our hype on this blog. When we saw flashes, we assumed he would make the transition seamlessly into top flight PG. I think just showing flashes of good vision, passing, anticipation, don't make you a PG. Condition being putting it all together consistently. Still high on him, regardless of what position he winds up playing.

Thad Young is another luxury. He is a quick and efficient scorer. If we put him on the trading block, you would see the kind of offers that would come in.

Collins deserves some blame but it's mostly talent level.
I think player bashing is in bad taste now. Might as well wait till the inevitable 1st round exit.
I still want to see what this team can do.

Lou Williams is a nice asset on a team going somewhere, on a team going nowhere, he's an unnecessary piece that should have been traded when he had value so the team could obtain assets to improve its numerous holes, but that's not the Philly way.

Iguodala bashing is nice and back in full force by the 90%, and now they get to call him a 'pussy' cause they think having a finger jammed in your eye is something you just shake off...however he's having a great season, he's been an all star and is in talks for DPOY consideration, and while some of this things shouldn't matter, they do, and it will increase his trade value. The quotes in the magazine to me are Iguodala saying he's tired of being spit upon by a city that values Lou Williams 'ability' than Andre Iguodala's value. I hope for his sake he's traded this off season, I hope for the sixers sake someone other than Rod Thorn is making the trade. I hope lou opts out and some team out there over pays him cause they are upset they couldn't get monta ellis. In the old days I'd hope for a sign and trade, but not sure those are all that helpful any more.

Hawes should just be let to walk, let some other dumb team pay him cause he's tall, you'd think the sean bradley debacle would have taught anyone who ever paid attention to the sixers that just because someone is tall doesn't mean he'll be good.

The only pieces I care about seeing on this roster going forward are Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner, not because I think they're great or anything, but because they're the only ones with upside worth taking a look at. If Sam Young wants to come back cheap, fine, whatever, but this entire franchise is built on the wrong foundation, and you gotta tear it down to the foundation. If you keep building upon a weak foundation, s the sixers have been doing for over 10 years now, you stay where you are, you don't get better.

until it happens, I wont hold my breath.
I'll keep this young exciting team play.
"But Amen, bro, Amen."

Yeah, well, it's the same drum I beat last year, it won't happen :)

Yeah, I forgot about Thad, I'm not sure where Thad fits on my plan...he's young age wise, but career arc wise, should he stay or go, I think his value is higher than his ability right now so maybe he goes.

Coin toss

Hobbes reply to jkay on Apr 5 at 11:17

"You killed any objective Iguodala argument by citing his contract. This and last season has made me believe he is not overpaid, maybe even underpaid. Simply because he means more to this team than he would on a contender."

I never claimed to be "objective." In fact, I'm a postmodern relativist, which means I think (a) objectivity is overrated and (b) that objectivity is more of an ideal than an obtainable goal.

As for that tired "overpaid/underpaid" stuff, I find the math simple and the culture complex. Last year the Dallas Mavericks won the NBA championship. They paid out $86 thousand in salaries for that particular team, and 22% of it ($19,000) went to Dirk Nowitski. In Philly land, 20% of our team salary goes to Iggs. That's the simple math part! Ya' just don't allow 20% of your salary to go to a guy giving you 14 and 6 who can't take over games. Most teams do, of course. Which is why most teams suck. Philly brass doesn't get it, and neither do most fans. The complex part, the culture part, of course has to do with so-called market-value, with how you land better players when your team salary is 15 and 20 million smaller than premiere teams. Frankly, it's just not fair; it's a rigged game. Finding a way to beat the house (unlikely), somehow, probably involves tons of luck and tons of brains and really big balls. Spending 1/5 of your salary on a second/third banana before you have a legitimate first banana isn't using brains or having balls. It's ass-f*^king yourself while entering a game that's already rigged against you.

My point being, when you're an organization with a smaller budget and you employ players with annual salaries they'd make with more luxurious teams, you're probably going to lose out, and lose out bad! Put another way, player value needs to be relative to team financal practices. I'm not saying my view is the only view, but it is mine, and it does have a logic to it--and the historical record can be read to support it. I'm also not saying Iggy's a bad player. He's a great player, and just might make more elsewhere. But in Philly, where the owners won't pay luxury taxes, it's foolish to give so much when the rest of your squad is question marks. If someone thinks otherwise, hats off to you, but the end-of-year standings are on my side!

For those who don't understand how math truly works, it's easy to abuse and reach flawed and faulty conclusions

Hobbes reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 11:21


well said

Hobbes on Apr 5 at 9:57

I enjoy reading this blog, your comments included.

I'll probably be drinking while watching the next 76er game. At tip-off, we can toast each other and all Philly sports fans--each of whom is approximately 99% scar tissue.

Man, the Magic are imploding, which could help the sixers (if they can win the division) get a better seeding maybe. Coach and Player mouthing off about asking to fire coach

Sharone Wright reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 13:20

That would be great if we were not imploding also.

Well, I'm not imploding personally, and the sixers might be imploding, not 100% sure yet, I think they're just in a slump as mediocre teams are wont to do

Sharone Wright on Apr 5 at 13:54

Man, I want to like Iggy. I appreciate his game. I love his defense. I like that he is good to elite in every skill needed on the basketball court except shooting.

I believe the the reason he is not liked by Philly fans is that he is the best player on a average team, and too much is expected of him offensively. He can be a key component of a championship team, but casual fans only see the missed 4th quarter shots, not the fact that he shut his man down over the same period.

That being said, he makes it hard to like him. He seems to hate playing basketball. He seems like a miserable person, and I question his leadership if he embarrasses a teammate in the press. He also doesn't want to be here, so why should I want him here? I think the Sixers just need to move on, and I am sure he agrees.

He's not liked in Philly because the philadelphia fan base as a hole appreciates you only if you score 20 points per game, or are reggie evans

you are a misanthropic dunce

That being said, he makes it hard to like him. He seems to hate playing basketball. He seems like a miserable person, and I question his leadership if he embarrasses a teammate in the press. He also doesn't want to be here, so why should I want him here?

I think that's kinda the reason ppl don't like him. All of the above are just perceptions that are bolstered by what you choose to think rather than facts.

But even still, I keep hoping that it's possible for fans to divorce Iguodala personally from his game.

I don't like Dwayne Wade, at all, I dont know him well either, but I'd sure as hell want him on my team in an instant.

Sharone is probably right, what with all the games missed in Iguodalas career, for every small injury, he probably doesn't like playing basketball at all. I find this kind of comment ridiculous every time someone says it - right up there with 'he doesn't want to win' - like players enjoy losing or show up and say 'let's lose today'. It's as silly as saying the best college team can beat the worst NBA team, no they can't, it's a foolish sports radio comment.

I've never seen Iguodala as miserable. I've seen him as thoughtful, which in Philadelphia is anathema, cause they want their guys to be blue collar like they see the city as, which is foolish as well it ain't a blue collar city.

As for 'wanting' to be here? Why should he want to be playing for a franchise that almost rraded him for an inferior player and a fan base that values a guy who scores a lot of points (and does little to nothing else)more than the value the guy who has been the BEST PLAYER on the team ever since Iverson left.

But yeah, let's get down on Igoudala cause he's tired of being the fans whipping boy.

Listen to Mike Misanelli one day and tell me Iguodala should love being in Philadelphia since he has so much fan support.

The Warriors have better fan support and man they SUCK

Sharone Wright reply to jkay on Apr 5 at 14:27

I'll grant that my opinion is in part emotional. We are humans, and that is part of the fan experience. That being said, do you really think that he wants to be here? Do you really think he is a good leader? I'm not sure that those two points are perception.

Now, I'll admit that my "doesn't enjoy playing" comment is pure pereption.

I am not sure how you make a point about AI9 using Dwayne Wade--they are not on the same tier. Obviously we'd all love Dwayne Wade on this team.

I share your opinion in that I would love to see a moment where Iggy dominates a game and an I-go-DAH-la chant breaks out. I wish he would make it easier for us to like him.

Sigh, and there in is the problem and the issue, it's not Iguodala, it's you.

Andre Iguodala was never the leading scorer in Arizona, Andre Iguodala was not the leading scorer on his high school team, he's not a scorer, and fans have decided that he HAS TO BE to love him.

He's one of the best all around basketball players in the NBA, and yet the fans of Philadlehpia discount him because he doesn't score enough points. So you'd like him to change the way he's played basketball his entire life to make it easier for YOU to like him.

How about this - he's the best all around player on the nba team you root for - if that's not enough for you - then yeah - if you can't root for the best player on your favorite team cause you don't like how many points he does or doesn't score - i have no problem with that player wanting out of town - why the HELL should he want to stay in a place where he's not wanted, where a guy like monta Ellis would be more popular than Iguodala.

Seriously, I have no problem - he's given this city the best he can for a long ass time and all the city says is it's not enough -w hile at the same time folk have praised Reggie Evans, worshipped at the altar of lou williams clutchness...this is a city that doesn't know how to appreciate a quality player...

Stan reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 14:41

Well said

Sharone Wright reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 14:42

When did I say I want him to score more points? I never said that and don't need him to do so, and I get a 5 paragraph lecure on it. I like his game.
When I say give us something, I should have rephrased it: how about NOT ripping your teamates? How about not deferring leadership responsibilities to a guy who can't even start? How about not saying that the fans would prefer to root for a murderer. How about not giving the wishy washy quotes at the end of last year that pretty much stated that you don't want to be here. Am I asking too much?

Were the comments he made in that interview not accurate? I guess saying you could kill someone if you scored a bunch of points was hyperbolic. Maybe just chasing your wife around nude with a gun in your hand would've been more literal.

Sharone Wright reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 14:49

That doesn't mean you say it, right? Do you tell you wife she looks fat in that dress? :)

Yes, you're right, it's exactly the same thing.

It's your perception that makes it wrong, you hate Iguodala so you will perceive everything through that filter.

Players have been calling out their teammates publicly for a long while - do you hate it when they all do it - or just when Iguodala rightly calls out the vastly over rated lou williams?

Sharone Wright reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 15:06

I don't like any players ripping teamates in the press. How can it ever be productive, even if true?

Actually this is a little uncomfortable for me, because I do like his game, and I am always defending his on-court game to casual fans. Just sick of everything with this team right now, including AI9.

And yet you make a comment like 'i wish he made it easier to like him' - which makes little sense if you already do like him.

As for the rest of it - I don't care much about a player ripping a player in the press or privately as long as it's true.

Kobe took less grief for his you tube andrew bynum comments years ago than people are giving Iguodala for pointing out that lou williams couldn't defend a blind quadrapalegic dog

He's kept his tongue for years, he makes a few comments in one article or two and you blow it out of proportion...you want him to be a leader, what if being a leader isn't his style, people just assume who a leader is and who isn't - 50% of the time I'd bet people are wrong...the leader in the lakers locker room was derek freaking fisher, even at the end, it was fisher...he wasn't even the best point guard on his team by the time he was gone. I think your entire rationale is based on some nonsense that was antiquated thinking 20+ years ago.

Like I said, given his heart and soul his entire career for a franchise (and city) that would (seemingly) rather have Monta Fucking Ellis, that praises Lou Williams, who sucks much more than he doesn't, and has had NOTHING positive to say about him his entire career here, even when he's making the all-star game, getting chances to be on the US Olympic squad, the fanbase and organization tend to minimize him. A guy can only be 'quiet' and stoic for so long when he's treated like crap...and Iguodala has been treated like crap by the philadelphia fans for his entire career.

I find this whol 'dont rip your teammates in public thing' funny - cause other times - other players get PRAISED for calling out their teammates in public - to make them answerable PUBLICLY for their deficiencies.

I think personally - if someone else said it - you'd probably be in favor of it - you just hate Iguodala - and he's played his best for his entire career here - and you can't appreciate what he's done - you jsut want more and more - and so does most of the fanbase - the unappreciative, ignorant, fanbase, as a whole, so yeah, he probably wants to play for a team and fanbase that would appreciate him more - who the hell wouldn't?

These people are doing a job, and he does a very good job (and your 'doesn't like the game' was just ridiculous and idiotic, and the fact that he comes in every season in shape, great shape in fact, and hardly ever misses a game is enough to me to say the guy probably likes basketball, but not enough for you and god knows what standard you hold it to) and the city and fanbase literally has shown no appreciation for anything he's done - they just focus on what he hasn't done

Or, and i'll say it one more time for the cheap seats - they value monta ellis over him.

WHY THE HELL would a player want to stay in a city where the fanbase values a player significantly worse than you as an improvement? Or with a franchise that almost traded you straight up for said player.

I'm impressed that Iguodala has kept his cool for as long as he has with all the slings and arrows he suffers from fools and jesters

mo speezy reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 14:43

I love Iguodala's game and he's been my favorite player in the NBA for several years now, however I can definitely see why (of course, based on perception and not experience) people are turned off by his personality (to the extent it comes through in interviews, on-court body language & mannerisms, etc.). He's just not very warm/charistmatic, period. That doesn't mean he's a bad person or you shouldn't root for him - and this is where I guess many people who dislike him are wrong - but I can see where the perception comes from.

Stan reply to mo speezy on Apr 5 at 14:47

I don't understand why people get turned off by his words and actions during interviews. It's such a stupid reason to hate an athlete. I also disagree with the sentiment that fans dislike Iguodala because of his attitude. Fans hardly watch the press conferences or the interviews. People dislike him because they don't like what they see under the points column in the stats sheet.

When your team doesnt score 30 points in the second half against the Raptors, at home, in front of your home fans, you should want to take the lead and score. Thats what good/great players do as a competitor.

Sigh, yet again you demonstrate no understanding of Andre Iguodala the basketball player

Again you show that you dont understand what it means to be a competitor and wanting to do everything you need to not to lose.

If that means playing through injury, playing out of position or trying to take a scoring role, you just dont let games like last night happen without going all out.

And yet again you demonstrate you know nothing about me (why should you) or about the realities of life. You live in the dreamworld of sports, where people say things like 'give 110%' and think that's a possible kind of thing.

You think you can tell how hard a guy is trying, you think that pain is irrelevant that anyone can play through any injury and they're just a pussy if they don't.

You are Howard Eskins wet dream

i met andre - he was in front of me in line, at the pizza hut in one of the penn station food courts. this was 5 days after the story broke about his $80mil contract. and he was taking amtrak and eating fast food. ha. anyway, i introduced myself and told him how excited i was to have him staying in philly. he gave me the half-hug, and said thank you. then he walked away from the counter, forgetting to take his change. i gave him his $11 and he was all smiles.

my point is, he seems to be a really good guy. hopefully my anecdote will partially stave off ad hominem attacks or personal judgments.

How much fault lies in Collins' hands for Jrue's lack of development? I loved the emphasis he put on defense and the roles he defined for the players because it was a breath of fresh air from Eddie Jordan. What's the difference between his offensive philosophy and that of Eddie Jordans? They both live and die off of mid range jumpers.

One more thing, if Hawes and Lou get brought back next year, I think it's time to start picketing outside to get Collins and Thorn fired.

We may as well find a new team to root for, because ownership signs the checks and they allowed it to happen.

Well the ownership has changed, and they haven't really had time to put a stamp on the franchise cause of the lockout...this off season is going to be telling I think as to the kind of owners they want to be.

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 15:25

I'll give them a pass on this season since they had limited options and a short off season. What they do this summer will give me a clear indication of where this team is headed. If they can't find a center to complement Jrue and give long term deals to both Lou and Spence, I might join the Monte for Andre bandwagon out of desperation.

The Collins Jrue thing started last year...with the Iguodala 'point forward' thing. I believe it's just my perception that has me thinking Collins is telling Jrue to focus on scoring so much, not to mention that asinine turnover restriction he had on him...forcing him to playing tight.

I'm really hoping it's just my perception that Doug Collins hasn't 'Domonic Browned' Jrue Holiday

Stan reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 15:28

Don't understand the Phillies reference but I think I agree with you. The Sixers have a very athletic, young PG with discipline and the willingness to learn and they haven't taught him how to be a PG. When it's all said and done he may just end up being a jump shooting PG with good size and athleticism.

The Sixers started a marathon running hard, guess what happens at the end ? Its not rocket science..
You can win a lot on this compressed season by just playing hard all the time but if you add a tissue paper unathletic frontcourt that can't defend, rebound or generate their own offense, you overload the work of the perimeter guys, they are tired mentally and physically.
Add the time that they played without Hawes, so somebody had to pick up his minutes i.e. Thad, EB, Iggy and Turner.
This is an exemple of bad managemnt, when you start a season like this one weak at 4 and 5 the positions and you loose your starting center, the FO must sign someone or if they were proactive (good managemnt) they should have signed someone that could play every game as a back up, not someone like Battie. Plus, they send Speights away and didn't replaced him.
Well, your starting center is soft injure prone and your back up center is a guy that can play 1 game out of 10, you just give away your other back up PF|C for nothing and so what you have at the big positions now ? The 2 rookies, but your coach can't stand rookie mistakes, and the old undersized PF and the severelly undersized back up PF playing big minutes against NBA Cs and PFs.
Man, the owners and FO or the don't care or they are extremelly cheap.
This is your 11|12 Sixers.

Eric Gordon played last night. Based on the highlights he looked healthy, but his shooting numbers weren't good (3-11). He still had 15 points and attempted 9 free throws. I say they should let Lou, Hawes and Brackins walk, trade Turner and sign Gordon. I hope he doesn't end up with the Pacers.

I don't know. I mean, how much are you willing to invest in a guy who can't stay on the floor? He's also restricted, so New Orleans can match, and probably would match.

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 16:02

I think the max you can give him is 14 million a year-

I'd take the risk and sign him to a 3 year contract for 12-14 million a year. If it fails, it fails. We could then trade Thad, Andre and rebuild again. I don't think our future would be anymore bleak with an injured Gordon and no Evan Turner. New Orleans would probably match and the Pacers would probably be more of an attractive destination to him. I'd still take the risk in signing him

They can try. Big contracts are less of a risk under the new CBA. They can use the stretch provision to cut a guy signed since the CBA was put in place.

johnrosz on Apr 5 at 17:26


I was critical of her in the past, but god damn do I miss her now that all we're left with is that bonehead John Mitchell and Cooney

Must read

To overlook what happened in the off season would be a mistake. When the new ownership took over, they made it clear that Jrue Holiday (and to some extent Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young) was the new face of the franchise. Where did that leave Iguodala and Brand? It left them knowing the franchise was heading in the other direction, but still they remained the two highest-paid players on the team. That’s a tough spot in which to be. Other NBA franchises have made the decision to trade expensive veteran players, turning the team over to the young guys (looking at the Cleveland Cavaliers here), but the Sixers made the decision to keep those veterans around. The franchise hoped these guys could lead the younger players and provide wisdom and experience during the transition. You can agree with that decision or you can disagree, but you can’t ignore the issues that it creates within the locker room. The big-money veterans know the franchise is going in a different direction, so they’re in a bad spot. And the young guys need to be patient and listen, qualities not abundant in young guys (or in NBA players). So that leaves the Sixers often pulling in opposite directions.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 17:39

that portion I wasn't so concerned with, seems purely speculative. The first part about Doug is pretty alarming, I don't know if she'd just grab that out of thin air.

Well, the collins stuff was unsurprising to me, as I had expected it, maybe it's a bit sooner than I expected it but every time i got shouted down about how it was 'different' for collins this time, I just waited and look, he's burning a team out on him again cause he's a control freak.

Substitute Larry Brown for Collins, the article would still read the same about almost every job either of them ever had.

She was the beat writer, so she'd be in a better position to know how the franchise was handling the players and the direction of the franchise face than us, and besides, her assertion supports my earlier arguments :)

The Cavs? The Cavs rode their veterans until they broke down to keep their record afloat, until they got hurt. They're still riding Jameson. All they did to clear the way for young players was amnesty Baron Davis.

Not my words, Fagans, was referring more to the portion regarding 'changing the face' of the franchise while the best player is turned aside - as she sees it

Yeah, wasn't arguing w/ you.

Ok good, cause I wouldn't use the Cavaliers as any kind of model...for anything positive.

I'm not even sure I buy the whole 'face of the franchise' change thing...I'm not local so don't see a lot of the advertising that goes with the team so I couldn't speak to whether there was a shift (or if Iguodala and/or brand were ever the focus in the first place)

But if they want to turn the reins over to guys on the 'upswing' as it is - then trade the other guys to get assets to help the building process - sheesh

The franchise's marketing has seemed confused, as I suppose it should be without a lone superstar. I mean, put six guys on a billboard, whatever. It's not like this is a shift or anything. They've never sold the team on Iguodala's name. The Brand excitement lasted until his first injury. Personally, I think her article is basically speculation and piling on, but whatever.

Well at least she's not piling ON Iguodala as she used to - and with that SI article she had the ammo :)

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 20:50

So, you think that entire first part about Collins (right down to the in-game comments from players to Collins and the request by players between games to back off a little) is not based on knowledge of/about the team or from sources, but is "speculation and piling on"?

So...she's lying?

Prove it.

I don't really have to prove anything, and neither does she, considering she never used the word "source" once in the post. It wouldn't be a shock that any of this stuff actually happened, and some of the stuff you or I have sort of witnessed just from watching games. I'm just not buying that she's really plugged in to what's going on with this team anymore now that she's off the beat and working at ESPN. I'm definitely not buying that she's more plugged in than all of the writers who still actually are on the beat. The fact that she didn't even mention talking to someone, or an un-named source leads me to believe it's speculation and the Sixers downturn was a good time to pile on for some page views.

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 21:33


She wrote a sensationalist piece on her blog for page views? That's what you think?

She was the beat writer for the team for what - 2-3 years? Now writing (and, seemingly, doing a LOT of writing) for ESPN...so what the hell does she gain from making up a bunch of crap to make Collins look bad - huh?

Whatever. It's your opinion.

I never said it was anything more than my opinion. It seems like another jump on the bandwagon to me.

And really, her post is her opinion. Which is perfectly fine. She isn't publishing this anywhere, it's on her blog and she isn't citing sources or claiming to have some kind of monster scoop. This is what she thinks is going on, and it very well may be. I wouldn't doubt it. All I said is I think it's speculation and an opportune time to start piling on Collins. Like she piled on Iguodala last year when she realized all of her readers hated him.

It's an "I told you so!" post because she predicted 34 wins and remained completely silent while the team was playing well.

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 21:45

Wow. What a hater.

What gives you the impression that she is so shallow to write an "I told you so" piece to point out that she was right all along?

I think she has WAY more things on here plate these days than to worry about what bloggers think about her pre-season prediction for the SIxers.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 22:04

I don't think of it as an "I told you so!", you guys never liked her because she wasn't an Iguodala fan. I didn't agree with her take on him either, nor did I get why she was drinking the Hawes =Peyton Manning kool aid, but I still put some stock into what she has to say. I would think she still talks to people around the team, she was well liked by a lot of people. I think we can all agree that the Sixers beat was way more interesting when she was at the helm.

Well - you're wrong as usual

Her first year she was respected as a serious writer who wrote intelligently and then her second year seemed to descend into pandering to the Iguodala haters to get more traffic on her blog.

Anyone pro Iguodala for Ellis loses all sense of credibility and knowledge about basketball in my opinion - and it was one of her champion pet causes.

She no longer 'needs' access so she can write what she saw whether it was there or not with impunity, she answers to no one, she's not employed so she doesn't have to have facts on her side any more...maybe what she wrote is truth, maybe it's not, but think about this - she works for ESPN now but it wasn't published on ESPN it was published on her own personal blog...why not publish this 'explosive' piece of 'journalism' where it'll get the most traffic instead of something fewif any people will read, unless it doesn't have enough fact based information and support to be published in a real newspaper, or even the new york post.

I just found it an entertaining read, I did not find it all that earth shattering or shocking, but if she had real 'balls' maybe she would have written these things when still covering the sixers in a real newspaper.

There's no editor to fact check her story, there's no responsibility because she's not headed to the stadium the next day - maybe just an axe to grind...she keeps writing stuff like this she'll be out of work soon, I mean espn has some standards

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 22:17

she took down Eddie Jordan while he was still coaching the team. That took some onions on her part, none of the other writers really wanted to say what everyone was thinking. She was the first, then they all seemed to follow her lead. And why would they post it on ESPN? That's not her job, she writes about the Sixers out of her own personal interest, which makes it even more clear to me that she has no real incentive to make that stuff up. It's fairly speculative in nature, I agree, but I don't think she'd publish that without a reasonable lead, whether they're named or unnamed in her post.

hear hear

Brian's response to Kate is funny...jealousy towards someone who is a pro in every sense of the word at something at which he is an amateur in every sense of the word...she was on top of the beat when she was on it, and a drive by from her even now is more insightful than anything I've seen written in a blog or newspaper all year...and Brian says "but she's not on the beat any more!"Yeah-the beat is owned by Bob Cooney, whose every article reads like a release from Doug Collins; publicist, and that Williams guy who is a nothing as far as analysis of the team...

johnrosz reply to Brian on Apr 5 at 21:35

Cooney absolutely eats out of Doug's hand, and that Mitchell guy is like the worst writer I've ever seen. They're too worried about getting those juicy quotes from Doug to ever challenge him on anything (nobody even asked him about removing ET in the Heat game)

Kate knew before anyone else when Eddie Jordan was going to get canned, she definitely got that scoop from somewhere, I'm not surprised if she's still somewhat connected.

bebopdeluxe reply to johnrosz on Apr 5 at 21:43

Definitely QFT about Cooney...and Mitchell is horrible. They are not going to rock the boat. Only guy currently on the beat questioning the direction of this team is Tom Moore (liked the article about Turner, BTW).

I just don't see what she would have to gain from putting in print a piece that lays out a pretty plausible scenario about what is going on that is complete speculation and bullshit...and I think she knows well enough that if here assertions WERE complete bullshit, it would not look favorably on her. Even though she is no longer a beat writer for the team (in which case she would NEVER write an article that damning of Collins, IMO), she is a visible enough writer (trying to gain national credibility at ESPN) that writing a hack-job piece to get a few more page views on her obscure blog makes exactly ZERO sense.

(have you been to her blog? there's nothing there)

Jesus christ this comment section is getting so god damned tedious. I never called her a liar. I never questioned her journalistic integrity. What I said was it seemed like speculation to me, rather than an expose on the inner workings of the team. Had it been an actual article, rather than a blog post, there might've been a source cited. There might've even been a quote or two. None of those things were in there, so I took it as opinion. Maybe just her explanation for the e-mails and tweets she received.

Either way, I don't really give a shit. Didn't mean to insult your online crush. My bad.

Oh come on - he doesnt' get any points for consistently putting words in your mouth and thought sin your head?:)

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 22:40

You are the most fucking sensitive person running a blog I have EVER seen.


You take challenges to your position so personally...I expect somebody like jem to respond to challenges to his position with snarky personal jabs (that's what makes him so endearing, you know), but I expect the guy whose picture is at the top of the page to not get his panties in a twist so easily.

You clearly suggest that she made that stuff up. I challenged that position.

That's it.

"Insulting my on-line crush"?


What's funny is that you replied to me, because your rage and over emotionality blinded you to who you should really be replying to?

I'd be upset with you too for the accusations you throw around constantly...putting words in peoples mouth...it's funny when you rant about peoples 'panties in a twist' when you have your panties in a twist constantly about your perceived vendetta doug collins has against your man crush evan azimuth turner

This is the paragraph where she supposedly blows the lid off things, she never really says anything about stuff we haven't seen on TV:

On more than one occasion, players have let Collins know — during a game — that they’re sick of the relentless nitpicking. This incessant nagging (or even the perception of it) leads to fractured relationships. The Sixers have reached the point where, at least some of them, have addressed this issue with Collins.

"have addressed this issue with Collins," she doesn't say they addressed the issue in any way beyond letting him know during a game, which we've seen on TV.

Brian, why mmust you be an apologist for Doug Collins?

Also, can you not except that a real reporter with sources and personal relationships has more information backing up her statements then is visible over the television screen to a blogger in a Yankees cap?

I'd be pretty disappointed if she didn't have better sources than me. That was never my point. I said this seemed like speculation, mainly because when a journalist talks to someone, then shares that information with his/her readers, they source it. They say, "I talked to Fred," or they say "A source told me." The absence of such statements makes it seem like speculation to me. Which is fine. She wrote this on a personal blog, not for a newspaper/magazine/website. I never said she was wrong. I never called her a liar. I said it seemed like speculation. And the timing seemed like piling on.

As for being a Collins apologist, I don't think I've been very pro-Collins around here the past couple of days and I didn't say anything in his defense in this annoying thread either. I said it was speculation.

I'm done with this conversation now. What I originally said was innocuous and straight forward. The cult of Fagan's apostles turned it into a huge waste of time.

Brian, the only reaction to her blogpost that was strange was yours-it feels like you searched for reasons to discredit it, maybe because she was more incisive about the state of the Sixers in a few hundred words than you have been in 5 years...maybe you are hypersensitive because analysis reveals that you don't really know what you're talking about any more than any of the commenters on this site...you wrote that Kevin Durant would never succeed in the NBA...you worship Igoudala and discredit others for having the temerity to suggest that the deficiencies of the team are related to the deficiencies of the star player...you worship Dwight Howard...you write off Demarcus Cousins...you aren't a good judge of NBA talent...it's fine...you are a fan, and you run a great fan website...but when you pretend to be more than that and place yourself among a small imagined enlightened elite of Sixers fans, it is grossly unattractive and fraudulent

Domonic Brown couldn't read a decent fly ball and bad-timing-injuried his way back into the minors. He was given as much opportunity as you could give a rookie.
Don't get the analogy.

meant as a reply to smth above; but at this point, who cares anyway.

Well, the phillies had the #1 prospect in baseball, and they tried to fix something (his swing) that wasn't broken - and they screwed him up - Jrue wasn't broken - but Doug tried to fix him anyway - and now he's possibly irreparably broken, just like Brown. The sixers (and phillies) took positive assets and broke them (Ps - you know who else can't get good read on fly balls? The starting center fielder for the phillies)

It's time to trade Iggy, amnesty Brand and blow things up. We all knew this team's ceiling was a first round exit all along...there was slim hope to win a playoff round, but that's it.

Iguodala's value should be at an all-time high, coming off his All-Star berth. We should be able to get a young player and draft pick for him...I bet Sacramento (Jason Thompson, Marcus Thornton, 2012 1st pick) or even Minnesota (Derrick Williams) would be interested. Even better if we could get a young big man.

Are we staying in limbo forever??

The Sacramento trade also reads as 'andre iguodala for a 2012 lottery pick and two under achieving pieces of scrap?'

lol at SVG

Yeah, he ain't coaching the magic next season - hell I wouldn't be surprised to see him gone in the next week or so

this piggy backs off kates recent column about the sixers


i shouldnt say piggy backs but the excerpts are important

bebopdeluxe reply to sixerfan1220 on Apr 5 at 20:54

I am surprised that Henry Abbott would reprint and highlight a bunch of "speculation and piling on"...

Abbot will repost anything that gets him more traffic, he contributed nothing insightful - it was just filler for his 'blog'

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 21:29

I don't give a fuck about whether he gets more traffic (just like I don't get bent about all the Philly.com sports articles that try to get you to click another page with NOTHING on it...just to amp their page views...I am getting the content for free, so if an extra click helps 'em, whatever)...but I doubt that he would put it up there like that if he really thought the content (which is not flattering to Collins) was, as Brian has said, a bunch of speculation.

Like I said - Years 2 and 3...in one.

What ever you say - you obviously have some sort of hard on for this entire issue - fight about it with someone else

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Apr 5 at 22:47

Who said this is a fight?

WTF is going on around here?

I think it is pretty clear that 1) Fagan is asserting - and using pretty clear examples to substantiate her position - that Collins is losing the team...and 2) Brian is saying that what reads like a pretty clear, cogent portrayal of what is going on is, in essence, a bunch of speculation.

I challenged that position. I challenged it both in terms of substance and in terms of questioning what her motivation would be to do that. It is a discussion...a debate...

He responds by apologizing for "insulting my on-line crush". Very classy.

Have fun, guys.

You are spot on bebop

Why is anyone shocked the Magic can't defend without Dwight? He's the only above average defender they have on their roster.

Who is shocked? Are you watching TNT again? You know that's bad for you

Yeah, TNT announcers are shocked.

I've never liked the way Van Gundy has used Howard, though I do somewhat agree with his underlying offensive theory behind it. Feel bad for the guy that it looks like his tenure in Orlando is going to end pretty much in the same way as Miami. Pushed out by someone on the inside.

If you haven't heard the audio with stan and then dwight talking about it - you gotta hear it - dwight has mastered the art of ignoring/not answering questions smoother than any politician.

Also go to hear Kurt Rambis talk about how Blake Griffin commits offensive fouls like all the time :)

Zero points in the first half - against the knicks? WTF

Tom Moore on Apr 5 at 20:38

seriously melo isn't really that good.

HE's CLUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is another game where i root for the knicks because i still think the sixers CAN win the division (not sure they will but they can)

PS - based on this game - Dwight ain't real good either :)

Nice touch, Pierce.

Rondo played 43 minutes yesterday. Just played the entire first quarter tonight (Pierce did as well). Boston doesn't have a backup PG who can handle the ball, wondering if Doc is going to try to push Rondo to 40+ minutes again.

Wow, he is going to kill Rondo. Look at the minutes he's played in their recent back-to-backs.

Down go the Celtics. The Sixers control their own destiny, if that type of thing floats your boat.

matt reply to Brian on Apr 6 at 8:29

Outside of the largely overrated DRose and annoying yet effective Thibs, I really like watching the Bulls.

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