DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

Jump off a bridge or in front of a train...even though there are still 12 games left and all of them at least *might* be winnable?

1. initial response absolutely not. are we grasping at straws to answer why they've dropped off? we'll see how he does vs. Orlando.
2.see #1 they should go over games and interviews from earlier in the season when they were playing their best and talking about being a team
3.lost season? how so? if anything it's a freebie and a great learning experience. jrue is finally showing signs of learning to be aggressive, evan showing off his improved game and giving flashes of greatness
4. 7-9, 7 we win the Atlantic, 8 we earn the 6th spot, 9 we hang on to the 7th or 8th.
5. Yes they can do it. They've made it as difficult as probably possible, particularly because of circumstances other teams are in. Orlando coming off 5 losses and D12/SVG nonsense, Boston losing close games vs. good teams coming at us with a vengeance for so many reasons on their turf... we CAN, but it's going to take all we have, if we have anything left.
6.No way. If things go that way, we also have some kind of epic miracle to root for. Long term I think it motivates the front office to make better moves since A. they'll be under a bigger microscope and B. will have more to lose. Rather than if we drop out of the playoffs and they just have to make a move, any move, to show some signs of life.

I know things have gotten bad of late, but I'm not one to give up hope even if it hurts more when we lose. I hate all the people jumping ship so fast. Yes it'll make it hurt a little less if the worst happens, but to me you give up so much more.

sb nation, huh? not too shabby.

i like to see depressed fan (brian) gain recognition. i don't know the dude, but i do know that this blog is hands down the best place for sixers fans on the web.

word. and congrats and please don't ever stop. except for maybe changing the name when/if the 76ers transform into a perennial powerhouse.

word again.

user-pic
mymanjrue on Apr 6 at 6:02
+/-

1. Unfortunately, I do. The Kate Fagan blog post was very interesting, as she provided hands down the best Sixers/NBA coverage in the media in many years and I would tend to believe that she has pretty good sources with the team.

2. It's possible, I believe, that Collins can reconnect and finish strong. Part of me expects that-just not sure if that takes the form of winning the division and even a playoff series(tough to imagine right now), or playing Miami hard for five or six games, which is the current trajectory and would be an abject disappointment. I think Doug may not have totally drawn down the goodwill he built up with some players earlier in his tenure. On the other hand, it is difficult to imagine the Sixers even making the playoffs when one looks back at the 2nd half against Toronto. In the 4th quarter, with the game still within reach, Elton Brand tried desperately to spark a rally. Unlike his huge single quarter performances vs. Boston and Atlanta, EB could not summon forth a vintage performance and singlehandedly change the game. He shouldn't have to-his effort and professionalism should have been answered by SOMEONE on the court for the Sixers. Instead, his teammates forced bad shots, developed a fatal allergy to ball movement, and barked at refs after failing to deliver, sometimes as game action continued. They looked for all the world like a dysfunctional NBA team, and maybe that is irrevocably what they are-the proof will be in the pudding.

3. At this point, yes. Jrue's evolution has been particularly vexing. He seems to have performed as the coach requested, which was less like a point guard than ever. Maybe I just missed them, but can anyone recall a Collins quote praising Jrue's playmaking abilities after a game or urging him to make greater use of said abilities?All I can remember are quotes like "Jrue can't be afraid to shoot," "we need scoring from Jrue," etc. Now, this team DOES need scoring from Jrue as he is one of its best offensive players and better shooters. However, as far as his development, it is his court vision, playmaking ability and "point guard skills" which, along with his ability to score and lockdown defensive potential, we ahave all been excited about. In that sense, Jrue has seemed to ave regressed. I do think his intangible development remains on track as he has shown flashes of oncourt leadership, as when he helped Brand put away the Celtics in the third quarter a couple weeks ago. Thad flourished in his role for awhile, but has lately struggled mightily on offense and gotten pushed around on defense. An almost identical year to last season-he seems to have hit his stride as an NBA player-a valuable bench guy with serious limitations, NOT a difference maker or reliable core piece for a true contender-but a nice complementary player who can turn around quarters on energy alone at his best. Jodie is what he is. Turner has probably exhibited the most visible improvement over last year, but only in tantalizing stretches, and he continues to largely flounder within his proscribed role. Lou has developed, I guess, in that Doug has created a monster by validating Lou's regard for himself as a top grade scorer and 4th quarter force. In reality, he is a flashy gunner and late game iso ballstopper who struggles mightily in iso if under any kind of pressure. There is a 1984 quality to the Lou 4th quarter scorer hype, which implies that he performs well under pressure when the opposite is true. Lou's trademark flurries of points have occurred frequently this season, but only once did one hit in a high pressure situation, against the Lakers. Since Lou thinks he is Allen Iverson, I guess memories of 2001 were conjured. Aside from that game, his bursts of scoring have come most frequently in blowout wins. Lou can hurt teams by piling on, but he cannot land the knockout punch-despite being given seemingly endless opportunities. Spencer Hawes is garbage; an affront to the basketball loving public. The rookie bigs, whose contributions were such a nice story early in the year, seemed to hit a rookie wall and were banished by Doug, leaving them devoid of confidence. Did Collins have great pieces to work with?Of course, no. But he does have a couple of young players with the talent to be very good NBA players and he has not, to my eyes, properly cultivated it.
h
4.7-have to think the Toronto game was a nadir. They are still a playoff team-but it looked at one point as though they had a chance to rise to the top of the East's second tier. Orlando's implosion-which it was assumed could occur as the result of Howard being traded(BTW, Brian-you fetishize Howard and indeed his skills would be perfect for this team-but how is it that he gets a pass on being a head case and Demarcus Cousins does not?I find his behavior orders of magnitude more immature and disruptive than Cousins', which seems to be reputation and rumor accepted as fact rather than the public D12 trainwreck) but has happened thanks to the disrupting influence of his wholly self centered presence-leaves an opening for a young Eastern team to rise and make a run with a chance-albeit remote-at an ECF berth. After that Sunday afternoon at Madison Square Garden in early March, I thought the Sixers had a chance to capitalize, but it appears that Indiana is stepping up and the Sixers are stuck in neutral.

5. I KNOW they can do it. They beat Orlando at home already in a game that was more lopsided than its final score, and Orlando is the only above .500 team collapsing in an uglier fashion than the Sixers at the moment. They match up well with the Celtics head to head. I don't think they will beat them, however. Although some blog proprietors declared with utmost certainty, armed with received wisdom about old legs breaking down in the compressed season, that the Celtics would run aground, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett have played like the HOF caliber veterans they are with the help of Rajon Rondo, who has since the trade deadline reverted to being one of the most thrilling younger players in the league after weathering trade rumors and harsh scrutiny, and the emergence of Avery Bradley as a high energy defensive stopper. Still-they lost the last two(don't think Ray Ray's return was a help) and their schedule stays tough. If the Sixers had indicated that they really want the division, I'd say they would get it. They haven't yet; Boston has-they can change that this weekend but confidence is very low.

6. After all the time, emotion, mental energy, money, etc I have devoted to rooting for this team to win, this line of thinking-while compelling-fails to compute for me. Although I am well aware of the shortcomings of the roster, I retain high hopes for Jrue, ET etc and would love nothing more than for this season to become defined by one of those guys asserting himself and leading the team to meaningful victories. I hate to see young guys with potential conditioned to come up short. I understand the rationale, but I have to believe that management is capable of drawing conclusions over a season and has seen the same team we have. Rooting for your team to lose to ensure against delusional management decisions seems a perversion of fandom and the kind of thing that only a joyless snob eager to demonstrate the farsighted and detached "wisdom" which sets himself apart from the 90% of his fellow fans whom he deems mouthbreathers and morons and so forth. I would call this joyless species an "Internet fan":rooting in an emotionless vacuum, believing that 90% of commenters on Philly.com accurately reflect 90% of Sixers fans. If you go to games and like, talk to Sixers fans in real life, you realize that the cadre of devoted ticket buyers who are in a real sense the team's fan base, are an astute bunch with both basketball IQ and a grasp of the intangible dynamics so defining in bigtime team sports. For example, many true Sixer fans are ready to see Andre Igoudala move on-not because they don't appreciate DEFENSE AND PASSING AND THE FINER THINGS but because they know that the Sixers will be hard pressed to develop much further as long as Iggy is their best player. It's a testament to Igoudala's game that the Sixers have a default high floor, and an impeachment of its profound limitations that they have such a low ceiling.

Sadly, the 4th quarter against Toronto exemplified the leadership vacuum that has come to define Igoudala's career here. I love Igoudala's game, and I ave respect for him. But the fundamental truth is that he is not equipped to do the heavy lifting for a contending team. He was miscast as the star of the franchise and has never won a playoff series, and as he neglected to get back on defense after shooting an airball in the 4th vs. Toronto to complain that he had been fouled it was the lowpoint of the lowpoint of the season, in my mind. The best player on the team sets that tone for a playoff race

user-pic
jswigga on Apr 6 at 6:14
+/-

I assume if you read this blog you're probably from Philly or at least been a fan of the Sixers for some length of time. Why is that relavant? B/C if you've been a fan of the Sixers for any length of time you know that they can AND WILL shoot themselves in the foot. It's almost as guaranteed as the Knicks self-imploding every single year.

How many times during this season have the Sixers dropped games to teams they should crush? Too many. How many in the last 2 weeks? To even entertain the notion that they can now, somehow suddenly turn on the juice and win when they need to win is absurd. I have lost all confidence in them and can't see them making the playoffs. This after a goddamned 20-7 start. Talk about fool's gold.

I know Evan T. put in mad work on his J over last summer, but until I see him and Jrue going strong in the paint I have to assume that they (younger guys) haven't improved/ developed as much as we'd like to believe. Thad is and continues to be a beast.

Actually, they really hadn't lost any games against teams they should have crushed until Washington and Toronto...their early season improvement was a result of taking care of business against bad teams...exception would be the OT home loss to the Nets where Deron Williams went off

user-pic
Spencer for hire on Apr 6 at 7:58
+/-

Brian, I am less concerned about Collins losing the team than some of you. I didn't expect him here more than 3 or 4 years anyway.

My main issue all along is has he showed the young kids the right way to do things, are they better for it moving forward and is a solid system in place. I believe the next coach will have a good foundation in place and that is important.

My hope this summer is that Thad [sf], Jrue[p.g.] and Evan [s.g.] are built around properly and with other players their age. They have to get it right this summer .

If they win the divison, play over 500 ball, and win a series that is major improvement.

The less time Thad spends at SF the better it is for the team. He can't guard SF's and he doesn't have the quickness advantage against them.

I think Collins lost the two. The two most recent blow-out losses, plus their overall 11-18 record in the last 29 games indicates this.
We were led to believe that the sixers' young legs would carry their further up the rankings this season, when in reality the condensed schedule was detrimental to a young, undisciplined team.

A lot of Kate's blog post was skepticism, but the part where she discussed how different teammates don't understand their roles - I can see her logic in this and I agree with it. Losing close games as taken its toll, perhaps?

I don't know Collins will ever get this team back on track. If anything, it's the players who are going to have to rally if they want to make the playoffs/get a good seeding.

If winning is more important than locker-room troubles than they will rally. If not, then time for some changes.

"lost the two" = lost the team

Firstly, I love the passion in these recent blogs. Intense!

All teams go through ups and downs of the season. The Celts was early. The Sixers is now. Still time to right things and get playoff ready. The sixers are what they are. A slightly better than .500 team. Hopefully, DC & company have analyzed this roster thoroughly for the real moves in the off season and the young players show growth in the playoffs. I agree with Spencer.

Keep the passion going!

1. I think it's impossible for this set of guys with their loyalty to Collins for him to have lost the team in any overt sense. I think they know the way he handles pressure makes it difficult for the team to overcome obstacles to winning ... and they probably suffer silently knowing that. If you think players don't realize his substitution patters with Evan hurt the team, that's naive. If you think players don't recognize that he took perhaps the Sixers biggest strength - defensive intensity and running 10 players deep - away from them by shrinking to a 7-8 man rotation and announcing it as if he was some genius doesn't hurt the collective confidence and ability to ride the hot hand on a given night, then you don't give them enough credit. If you think the explicit message that turnovers and poor defense has consequences for everyone except Hawes and Williams doesn't discourage others who have to make up for it, think again. But at the end of the day, this team has too much character for that to translate into a lack of loyalty to a coach that made them relevant.
Collins needs to loosen up and stop being afraid to lose. Go back to the 10 man rotations .. especially against non-playoff teams and teams with old, tired legs and emphasize defense and accountability. Stop having a double standard when it comes to benching Turner vs when Lou has a bad shooting game or Meeks does. Ride the hot hand until the opponent shows they can stop it. Run a balanced offense in the last minutes of quarters and stop having everyone stand around watching Lou shoot another BS off balance contested jumper. If he's gonna have the ball at the end, make him know he needs to drive the lane and get fouled. Stop standing on the sidelines looking like a catatonic crybaby and exhort his guys like a cheerleader. This team didn't suddenly lose what talent they displayed ... they can feel that their coach is afraid and have stopped playing the way that made them unique. The biggest problem I'm seeing is between Collins' ears ... and I see no self introspection or objective assessment of the problems coming from him. If for some reason he was sick for two or three games, you'd see a turnaround with his assistants in charge .. just because of what they won't do to undermine their own guys.
3. I see growth with Turner, not as much as there should have been perhaps, but some. I see growth over prior years with Hawes ... although I'm actually happy he hasn't played well enough to see us reward a soft player with too big a contract. I don't get Jrue Holiday .. seeing no growth there at all and I have no idea why. The two rookie bigs outperformed reasonable expectations, but I don't think they are growing from watching on the bench .. no.
4. 9 - 4 games up with 8 to go? I don't see them not making the playoffs. Now, if you were asking at this point would I like to see them make the lottery? That's a different question ...
5. I still think they win the Atlantic Division. I think half the Orlando team wants to lose to punish their coach ... half want to lose to punish D12. I think the Sixers are a bad matchup for Boston ... not a fluke we have swept them every game so far. We have too much depth for them. Boston has old, tired legs and their schedule is tough. If the Sixers beat them head to head again ... they will hang on to win the division. If that doesn't happen ... I'm just hoping they finish in any position other than 7th.
6. Against any team but the Heat, I think the Sixers will surprise a lot of people with their play in a 7 game series. Collins coaches better when he doesn't think his team is a favorite ... and when he and the team can adjust to what went well and didn't from the previous game. I think Turner especially ... as well as Brand and Iguodala .... play to their potential the bigger the game. This team has enough pride they will bite back if they lose a game. And they have the capacity to play dominant defense that makes them a tough matchup for anyone. If they don't play the Heat the first round [who are a matchup problem because we can't attack their weakness with our soft bigs] I think they potentially have the potential to win two series. Either way, I'm not confident Thorn survives - he is not the new ownership's guy. If they crash down the stretch, Collins might not survive for the same reason.

user-pic
mymanjrue reply to TNT on Apr 6 at 17:19
+/-

Great post, TNT...agree with a lot of your observations about Collins and think you express them extremely well. Thank you

Yes Collins has lost the team, no he can't find them, and no none of this is surprising, the players and league have changed since collins last coached and back then teams were burning out on him in less than 3 seasons, so now it
takes 2.

I consider the past 2 seasons lost seasons in the development of Jrue Holiday as a point guard, because Doug COllins and the coaching staff seem to have decided he isn't a point guard...I'm not sure he'll ever get back to it any more than I"m sure Dom Brown will find his swing again...some guys don't need to be fixed, Jrue was one of them.

I guess you could say Thad has shown growth and maybe Collins gets credit for that, but aside from that, no growth.

I'd say it's a 9 they'll make the playoffs, maybe a 3 they'll win the division (though you didn't ask that one ;)

Boston is old, the Magic are imploding, can the sixers win those two games, yes, they have the talent to win those two games, will they win those two games? I doubt it, no one who has watched this team suck against the wiz and the raptors can say with 100% belief that they will win. I figure they'll split 1-1

I think ownership ALREADY has a false sense of security based on the hot start and the bump in attendance...the espn 'flex' national games probably make them feel better already. They probably already consider this season a success...nothing that happens between now and the end of the season that is likely should change the long term prognosis of a team that minus eddie jordan keeps playing around 500 ball

I consider the past 2 seasons lost seasons in the development of Jrue Holiday as a point guard, because Doug Collins and the coaching staff seem to have decided he isn't a point guard

While I don't discount the possibility that Collins and the coaching staff have told Jrue to be more aggressive in looking for his shot (though I have never seen this confirmed officially), I would say a good portion of the blame for Jrue's lack of point guard ability this year rests with Jrue himself. Whatever general direction the coaching staff has given him, no one would complain if he wound up with 10 assists and 3 turnovers instead of his usual 4 assists and 2 turnovers.

What I see is that he neglects to make some passes that most good point guards make, he can't make some types passes well (lobs come to mind), and his timing on some passes is off, causing many of his passing turnovers. Stuck watching the Celtics as my local team, I see how easy Rondo (admittedly one of the best passing PGs in the league) makes the game for his creaky old teammates, and I wish the same could happen with the Sixers.

The thing is that we have seen flashes of that kind of play from Jrue. The first and third Atlanta games come to mind. In the first Atlanta game, he went 6-16 with 5 turnovers -- but he had 11 assists (season high), and his play in the 3rd quarter, mainly in setting up his teammates, led to the eventual blowout win. Ironically, though Jrue played an awful game overall vs. the Heat this week, I thought he came out with a good first quarter, setting his teammates up.


So you don't think the draconian - commit less than x turnovers or everybody runs - edict from the coaching staff has anything to do with Jrue hesitancy to pass at some points?

It's possible, but to my eyes that doesn't account for all the "good" passes that Jrue hasn't made this year. Again, I don't think Collins or any of the other coaches would complain about 10 assists and even 4 turnovers. (If Rondo or Nash were on this team, I'm almost certain Collins would give them free rein to do what they do.) I could be wrong, but I doubt anyone was running after Jrue's 5 turnovers in the first Atlanta game.

We have no idea what goes on in practice, all we can know is what we are 'told' by the announcers who indicated that Jrue had a limit.

Jrue was progressing fine until the "point forward" move by Doug Collins last year, maybe it's coincidence, but I don't think so

Collins was!Jrue got noticeably reduced minutes in the second half as I recall. I was at the game and thought the first half was one of the best I'd seen from him all year-along with, as you said, the first Atlanta game. I also agree with you that he came out passing well vs Miami, but everything else went wrong and it turned into a really bad game for Jrue

#1 & #2: "lost the team," that's probably an over-used and very dramatic term. I'd wager that several of the key players are tired of him, yes. But I doubt that most are ignoring him, as it seems they did 2/3rds through the Jordan tenure. Winning a few games will lighten the mood a little, I'd think.

#2: Lost seasons, probably not. Better players typically perform, regardless of the conditions--conditions, being a compressed season, type-A coach, etc. Turner does get minutes, as does Jrue, etc. And in a season, especially a condensed one, there really aren't former PGs on staff who are drilling and training the Jrues of the league on how to be Nash or Parker or whatever. Jrue and Turner are on the stage. Neither are 'naturals' as PGs or even as SGs. I don't blame the coach or the organization for thier ho-hum "development," because development has an awful lot to do with your player DNA, where you were on the learning curve when drafted, and what you do in the summers. We have so-so talent. End of story.

#4. 90% confident we make the playoffs. Unfortunately.

#5. Can they finish 1st in the Atlantic. Of course. Will they? I just had a really nice cup of coffee, so I'll say "yes" right now. Later tonight I might say "no." And I'll change my mind a dozen times between now and the end of the season. Who knows. More often than not, I'll probably answer with an "No, they'll fold up like cheap suits."

#6. I'd say it's highly unlikely that the management is under any illusions about this team being of championship calibre. If there's illusions in play, it would only be about whether or not they're sufficiently equipped to win enough games to turn a profit next year. Like it or not, fans and owners are different animals. One cares only about excellence and rings. The other tends to care about excellence and rings, plus ledger sheets with black ink. One is part of a big family, many of whose members think the NBA is just like a video game where you trade players in and out as quickly as the control pad allows you to, the other is part of a small family in which trades aren't quite so easy and black-and-white. One thinks rich people treat cash as if it were monopoly money, the other uses its money in order to get ordinary folks' money.

The owners most likely know what they've got, whether teh team wins out or not. How risky they're willing to be in order to get better? That's an altogeter different question. We might be slightly more prepared to answer that question this summer--when we see how they handle Brand (it's unclear to me how they should handle him, btw). If they're risky, hungry, Cuban types, they just might amnesty him.

Stewart (Phila)
avid, it's difficult coming to conclusions about players who are so young, but do you think Holiday is better suited to the 2, and Turner to the 1?

David Thorpe
(12:26 PM)
No and yes.

user-pic
scott reply to GoSixers on Apr 6 at 11:58
+/-

do you think he means, no holiday isnt better suited to be the 2, and yes turner is better suited to be the 1? meaning they are both better suited to be the 1.

if thats what hes saying, i agree. everyone was worried about iguodala and turner playing together, i think turner and holiday playing together is the bigger issue. turner needs to dominate the ball, and at this point i think turner has the higher ceiling. tuner's got some crazy attitude on the court. i actually think it helps him. sometimes i wish holiday would play with a little more emotion.

Scott

Yeah, I do think that what he's saying, not sure I agree with him that Evan Turner is better suited as a '1' any more than Andre Iguodala is because of his passing ability. No they aren't as high level as him but Magic Johnson excelled as a point forward (I don't remember, does anyone remember who the point guard on those laker teams was?)

Turner is a good rebounder and a good passer, but a horrendous shooter...if teams don't have to play him close that's an issue (at any position) in my opinion.

As for your 'emotion' comment, what works for one player doesn't work for another, Jrue doesn't strike me as a very experessive guy, naturally, he's an even keeled guy, and I prefer even keeled guys if I have to make a choice, cause overly emotional guys can get more easily upset by one bad call...as for other turner court mannerisms, he calls for the damn ball too much and seems to complain as much as a 10 year vet

user-pic
scott reply to GoSixers on Apr 6 at 12:16
+/-

John, i agree with most of what you said. Turner will have problems if he doesn't hit shots consistently, and for him to come close to reaching his ceiling he will definitely have to improve his shot. If we were somehow forced to pick which player we'd rather have longterm, though, right now I'd pick Turner because I think his shot will get better and his ceiling is higher. You're right though, if his shot doesnt get better he's not reaching that ceiling.

As for Jrue's emotion, i think his game would be better suited if he showed some anger every once in a while. He seems hesitant to take it to the rim with confidence sometimes, and i think if he had more emotion it could boost his confidence and maybe he could get to the rim/free throw line more often. As you said, though, it is important that he can manage the emotion. Especially as a PG, he has to be at least somewhat level headed so he can control the flow of the game. I agree that his being even keeled is a strength, i just wish he could mixed in some controlled emotion every so often.

General question, who would you rather have long term, Jrue or Turner?

If forced to pick one player long term, I'd pick Jrue Holiday because he's better at a more important position (when allowed to play it properly) than Turner, i believe he has more upside, and he's 18 months (approximately) younger than Evan Turner.

As for the 'more emotion' comments, I'm just going to say I disagree with the premise and what you said about how it would affect his game. I believe each guys best game is played in a different manner, and some people dont' like it, but as long as it gets the job done, I get over it. I don't feel being more emotional would make Jrue better, and I don't see any reliable evidence that says 'more emotion means better' in general.

Jrue could definitely use "more city, less beach" in his general approach. Nice kid - and it hurts him.

You're right, being nice really hurt the careers of guys like Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabar

Typical pejoration, sour milk man.

Heads up, there's a difference between on- and off-court.

Norm Nixon was the point for Magic's first couple of years, before the Lakers woke up and gave full pg duties to Magic

user-pic
Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Apr 7 at 9:53
+/-

Magic was never a forward. He was the point guard on that team from the first game his rookie year. The lineups were

1 Magic
2 Nixon/Scott
5 Abdul-Jabbar/Divac
4 Haywood/Chones/Rambis/Thompson/Perkins
3 Wilkes/Worthy

Point forward is a mythical position that describes almost nobody except Bird & Pippen. Iguodala fits the description, and I think he's very good at it, he just doesn't play it very often, certainly not for an entire game.

In the '82 & '83 finals, Cheeks guarded him the entire time.

That era was before my time, and I've certainly never thought of Magic as anything other than a pg but what I gosixers was referring to was Magic's very first years in the league when the Lakers started Norm Nixon beside him, who was to my understanding thought of as a traditional type pg..the way I've read it, there was some reluctance on the part of the Lakers management to commit to Magic at point due to his singular/revolutionary style of play, so Norm Nixon stuck around to provide some of the more traditional pg skills during the transition to SHOWTIME, which blossomed fully after Nixon was jettisoned...if I don't quite have the story right, which I probably don't, I hope one of my elders will correct me...I find that kind of thing very interesting

user-pic
eddies' heady's on Apr 6 at 12:04
+/-

"Has Doug Collins lost the team?"

I really don't think so. If so, then what type of coach can these chaps play for? They pouted and tuned out Eddie Jordan, even very early before the warning signs started sounding. Too many egos at play I guess. Turner's a headcase and believes he's a super-duper, Andre always has, and now even moreso thinks he's an actual star because of his all-star berth. Lou does an admirable job of being the leader in the offseason and I'd assume in-season, but he's probably on a trip because he rightfully or wrongly feels he should be a starter (esp considering the two chosen to start in front of him). They're not the big boys they think they are, or the professionals they're supposed to be, if DC has lost these guys or they've tuned him out.


"Can he find them? If so, how/when?"

Hell if I know. If they are tuned out or immune to his stern ways, maybe they're too headstrong within their own right to ever come around. If they can't play for a taskmaster or disciplinarian just imagine what they'd do or how they'd act with a so-called 'players coach'. I'd say if we think this is interesting what's happening right now, the 'interesting' could go up a few notches with a more lenient headman.


"Do you consider this a lost season in terms of developing the young guys? Do you think any of them have shown any kind of growth?"

This one's kind of tough. I really don't see any kind of maturation with Jrue. Last year, I had placed the Ty Lawson wishes to the back of my mind, but this year they've resurfaced mightily. I prefer a traditional true PG that can also get his own shot and penetrate at will drawing defenses, along with the ability to knock down an open shot or two. A guy that has innate court vision and passing sense. A well-rounded floor general. Jrue has really only shown me the ability to knock down open shots from time to time. He's displayed nothing, even last year, to show that he's a sufficient floor leader - an extension of the coach on the floor. How many times have you ever seen him gather the guys for an on-floor huddle during a stoppage in play? Or gather the guys together down the stretch in crunch time? Yeah, I said earlier in the year that he's still very young (in response to GoSixers saying he had regressed in his career arc), but this year he's shown me that he may just be way too raw for that position going forward. You either have 'it', or you dont. There's only so much developing you can do with regards to the point guard position.

Evan Turner has flatlined. Others talk about growth with him, but I would say it's all relative to how absolutely bad he was last year. It's not too difficult to show so-called growth from that. He's a one-dimensional player that can't shoot. He has to dominate the ball to even have a chance to be successful, and that isn't even a guarantee if he does possess the rock. He would be too easy to gameplan for if you gave him the reins full-time. His lack of a jumper or any respectable range would be a major hindrance. His passing and vision is not adequate, he's mostly in the same mode that Jrue has been in this year when having the ball - get mine.

Thad Young is about the same to me. He appears to have worked on his jumper but for some reason I still cringe when I see him load up and ready to launch. I just don't like the idea of him being the guy to shoot a 15-20 footer. His relentless energy and hustle is admirable. And I totally fawn over his on-court demeanor. He always keeps such an even keel and always looks to be in business-mode.

I wouldn't say it's a lost season as far as growth. It *should* be a wakeup call to management that none of these guys are long term would-be keepers. If something better or with more upside comes along, cast your rod and see if something bites. Because you aren't ascending too far up the ladder if you stay with the status quo and keep these guys as your "core".


"Scale of 1-10, how confident are you the Sixers will make the playoffs?"

5 - Only because there are enough teams left that are mailing it in and playing out the string with young guys to see what they have. I wouldn't be sad in the least if they would miss the playoffs altogether. Getting in this lottery could really be helpful (assuming they don't make another ill-advised, non-fitting, boneheaded pick like they did in the past two drafts). It's painful to say but I think after Wed. night I'm quietly rooting for the Bucks and Knicks. Going on 10 years of this shit is enough for long-suffering fans like me. I'm not getting any younger and 1983 seems like prehistoric Jurassic Park days at this point.


"These last two are related: Believe it or not, the Sixers control their own destiny in the division now. Beat Orlando, beat Boston and they're all alone in 1st in the Atlantic. Do you think they can do it? Do you think they will do it?"

No and no. They may - may - just get lucky vs ORL on Saturday because of the disarray they're currently in. Boston puts them in their rightful place on Sunday, much to my chagrin.


"Hypothetical: Say the team rallies from this point, wins the Atlantic, gets home-court in the first round over Atlanta and wins a series, then loses to the Bulls in the second round. Even if that result would be fun to watch, do you think it would create more of a false sense of security for ownership and the front office? Meaning, if that's all we have left to root for, could it completely screw the team long term?"

Yes, I actually think it would. With this all still being new to these guys I have this belief, however true or false, that they're somewhat in, for lack of a better term, 'fan mode'. Small amounts? Yes - but I think as an owner and being invested in your product it's human nature to believe in what you're putting out there and think it's more that what it actually is. Maybe you can chalk it up to blind faith, I don't know. But I feel pretty secure in saying that *if* they make an advancement over last year's playoffs and get to the 2nd round, this ownership will change it up from 'continuity' and parade this new mantra of 'improvement'. All the while, just allowing themselves to be blinded by the towering pines and robust willow oaks blocking their view from the orchard on the other side - the trees that actually bear the fruit. With the pine cones and needles, and blade leaves from the oaks representing their revenues and gate receipts - and to a lesser extent these current players or "core" that showed great 'improvement'; while new players, and more sensible roster construction providing a better chance of a championship, representing the ripe fruit.

Yep, it's a bitch when you can't even "root" in the short term because you're much too afraid of the ramifications long term. Ah, the life and history of Sixers fans. Well, at least this one....

Three teams in the past decided at some point that they could not play for Doug Collins either. He gets a pass for the mess of a situation in Washington, but Michael Jordan's Bulls and Grant Hill's Pistons? He was ran out of town both times for the same reason. He is not good with young players after awhile because he obsesses over every single mistake and he is far too impulsive to be a great NBA coach. He certainly has the basketball knowledge, but not the temperment.

Find me an NBA team that isn't filled with egos. That's not a valid excuse for a coach in this league.

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to MCT on Apr 6 at 23:11
+/-

It wasn't given as a valid excuse for a "coach", it was provided as a hypothesis for a "situation".

Egos clashing, and losing a team, are two entirely different things.

You're arguing he doesn't have the temperament, I'd argue til the end of humanity the players are the ones that don't actually have it, young or not.

I'd love to see more than just one SOB openly display a moodiness, or some mild anger.

The head coach's temperament is nothing more than window dressing, it's just the revealment in the moment; but the knowledge (as you say) and wisdom is the core disposition. Reception of it is key.

1. yes, when "leader" Iguodala steps out and criticizes teammate Williams in national publication, reported and early-evidenced "all for one" comraderie takes a hit; Collins diminished some

2. no, even Doug's nervous willpower can't stuff genie back in lamp

3. no, developing young guys can gain from experience of '11-'12 passage - the humble student is the better student; growth dependent on individual and his internals

4. 5; Apr 25 @MIL - next to last game - shaping up to be big

5. haven't shown ability to rise with strong team efforts consecutively of late; 1 win over weekend at best

6. best case scenario - miss playoffs; new owners order detonation & rebuild (extremely unlikely, see Hobbes - #6)

Basically, he's got the counting stats (blocks and steals), he's got the advanced stats (best post defender in the league, according to synergy. The team is much, much better defensively with him on the floor).

thanks

If we only had a good, defensive, athletic center who could finish at the rim playing next to him...sigh.

It should be pointed out that he also says Iguodala is probably a 'more' worthy candidate than Brand but the difference in defense when either of them is off the floor is stark.

PS

The only other team to lose to the wiz by 20 or more this year is the pistons

Here's my latest piece on SB Nation Philly.

Your last question really scares me Brian. It really does.

Yeah, it really should.

I believe from a development standpoint, things have been a failure. Really though, there are only two young guys I care about (Maybe Thad, but he's turning into a valuable contributor who has a certain ceiling).

I guess my question would be, if you would blow it up, have we seen enough from those 2 guys to determine what we could get? I would prioritize just keeping them, but Turner's value has risen with his flashes he's shown recently. I don't think Iguodala himself would fetch a high draft pick or something of true, rebuilding value. But Iguodala and Jrue? Iguodala and Turner? That may get you back something pretty nice. It would depend on what they could get back, but I believe the Sixers have to listen to everything.

no hedo or anderson for the magic and Quentin Richardson is doubtful


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif