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jswigga on Apr 7 at 3:44
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anyone else following Mo Speights' career at Memphis. Dude is thugging. I always thought Collins liked him too. Not trying to start fires and I know the discussion should really focus on Orlando... just wondering if anyone else regrets the trade...

thoughts?

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tk76 reply to jswigga on Apr 7 at 6:02
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Funny thing is that on a per minute basis his numbers in memphis are worse than they were in Philly for points and FG% and only up a small amount for rebounding.

Hollins has found use in him (43 starts, 22.5 mpg; Grizz 28-20 while deploying him). Collins' refusal to do so (remember the DNPs?) in a year when frontline weakness is obvious and has been costly is a mark against his coaching. Collins' inabilty to tolerate/incorporate Speights has resulted in extended showings of "Elton & the Smurfs", not a capital idea. If his moving of Speights was made with a belief that Thorn would help him by acquiring size, that's just another miscalculation. It's a classic case of Doug's "throwing the baby out with the bath water." Rash.

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eddies' heady's reply to jswigga on Apr 7 at 10:18
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Can't really say I regret the trade. Never saw the drive or will to succeed from the guy, and if he doesn't have that within himself he's more like dead weight to me. Did like his unbridled enthusiasm and team player aspects he displayed from the bench especially for not getting any minutes.

Curious why you say you think Collins liked him. Is there an insuation to follow this that Thorn or someone in the FO was ultimately responsible for his moving?

Collins liked him? Where'd I say that? Facts of Speight's handling say the opposite. (Goodbye smooches for public consumption don't count.) No insinuation by me on your presented Thorn/FO angle.

Marreese is a part-timer player, but not a useless big man like Doug positioned and acted on. Much like his handle on Turner, Holiday, S. Young (so far) - Collins, turnover (imo). And Vucevic & Allen have been reduced to afterthoughts after early production - why? Depends on the week with present coach, Mr. Hot-&-Cold. Puts teams - and some individuals - through wringers.

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eddies' heady's reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 7 at 11:11
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I was replying to the original poster, not you. Agree on the goodbye smooches though.

My mistake. Sorry. (Doug just benched me.)

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Tom Moore reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 13:21
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Don't think it would've worked here with Speights. All he does is shoot jumpers. He doesn't pass or defend and team is better off with him not playing down the stretch.

That's the party line of the Sixers anyway. Next thing ya know, Iguodala will be deemed a statesman. I disagree with your easy disparagement ("all he does is shoot jumpers"); he rebounds some, shoots FTs at a decent clip, contributes length/some inside resistence to a WC playoff-bound team.

Liked your prediction, Brian. 'Tis the opposite of rash, and funny in the wider context of your usual optimistic prognostications.

Basketball-reference.com win probability: PHL 69%, ORL 31%. Strongly factoring Magic's physical AND spiritual injuries, me supposes.

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Tom Moore on Apr 7 at 13:18
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the magic are starting redick at SG, id love for turner to attack him on the offensive end

Might be fun to see how old man Battie and/or Lavoy handle DH12...of all the games to NOT go with only 00 and Brand at center, this seems like it'd be an obvious one...

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Tom Moore on Apr 7 at 19:22
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South Broad reply to Tom Moore on Apr 7 at 20:16
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This is twice in the last two weeks you've labeled Iguodala as the most likely candidate to be moved. Inside info? Or speculation?

Sixers looking great. Down 10 early.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:20
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Our starters really blow of late. geez

Hawes has played good D on Howard so far. I'm kinda shocked. :S

We'd have to make our next 3 shoots to reach 40% shooting...

Spencer has hold Dwight to 1-6, but has taken 7 shots himself and only made 2. Great stuff.

Meeks with the 3 after the first possession where the Sixers moved the ball. Only down 5 after 1...

Brian said to keep it civil. But if I'm all alone, am I allowed to fart and piss in the comments?

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:39
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Dag Thad, he struggles soooo much to just finish with authority, or draw the slightest of contact. Blown bunny. ugh

jodie misses a 3, lou makes one

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:41
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Ugh Jodie, get some legs under that shot...

Lou w/ the 2nd chance 3!

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:43
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Yeah like that Jodie!

They're running at each and every chance they get. Been awhile since seeing that it seems like.

Great 15-2 run. Up 3, early in the 2nd. Dwight has played all 15 minutes. Let's see if we can build a bit of a lead when he sits now.

DH12 still in.

Finally some battie - he and Lavoy might make things interesting.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:49
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Bavetta and Joey Crawford tonight. This could get fun down the stretch.

dwight out, please take advantage

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:51
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DH goes out after 16 min, buttttttt Hawes comes back in too though. sigh

How do you miss this shot, Jrue?

good job thad

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:54
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Much better energy the last 5 min or so in this 2nd quarter.

jodie 3!

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:55
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Lazy pass Jrue.

Jo-3!!

24-4 run

Wow, we see some energy, some hustle, some D. And what do you know ... shot's start falling, the game gets easier and we're on a 24-4 run.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 20:58
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Be nice if Jrue would enter the building.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:01
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Jodie's been hustling his ass off.

Because Jrue only shows up for one half usually, we can expect great things in the 2nd. Yay!

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eddies' heady's reply to Phil on Apr 7 at 21:06
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Ha, you're probably right too.

good hustle thad

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:05
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Sure am glad to see him shorten ET's minutes.

Well, Meeks and Lou have played very efficient so far.

You gotta give Hawes credit. He played Dwight very well so far.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:09
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Instead of the usual Lou for one, he gave it to Dre up top in a 1-4 set and ends up with a Spencer faked 3 and drive and dish to Thad, who gets fouled.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:12
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Well, he's went one man further in his bench tonight w/ Battie. Would like to see him give Sam Young a few minutes. None in first half probably won't be any in second.

Hmmm, gave it to Dre again on last possession of half and out of a timeout.

Why doesn't anyone cut to the basket when Dre has problems getting space?

Bench outscoring the starters 30-15.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:15
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Hell of a second quarter, energy picked up tremendously once the bench came in.

EB and Hawes have 3 assists each, Andre has 6 himself. Our PG has NONE.

The only number in Jrue's box score is 2 for turnovers.

In the interest of being fair, given that I always bash Hawes, I have to say he played fairly well that half. Good defense and boxing out on Howard and his running the high post set on offense was the catalyst for our run to pull ahead while Howard was on the bench. If he had finished more shots, it would have been an excellent performance. Have another half like that, 00.

Another quick hook for Jrue here. He's been awful this game.

turner at point

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:40
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Jrue w/ an early hook again. Jodie in at the 7 min mark.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:42
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Forced, bad shot Evan.

Get ET out for Lou, and Hawes for Thad and this starter lull will be over.

Starters blow the lead.

Between the Sixers and the Phillies, Philadelphia teams are just awful on offense.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:47
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Last 2 possessions just too much holding the ball, no movement of it. Players are moving but the balls not.

....so still no v8 or Lavoy?

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Sean K reply to das411 on Apr 7 at 21:49
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They're dead to Doug.

meeks 3!

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:54
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Jo-3!

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:56
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We matched ORL's offensive futility from the 2nd quarter in our 3rd. Just atrocious. Hate to even watch that starting lineup he's throwing out there. Guess he has to start Hawes but really wish he'd re-insert Jodie for Turner.

Annndddd, he gives the ball to Dre again for the last possession of a quarter. Passed it to Lou for a miss though.

Ugh a 16-point quarter.
We need to build a lead while Howard sits the first few minutes of the fourth quarter.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 21:59
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Our starting backcourt is near invisible tonight. When Redick and Jameer are outplaying you, you know you're gonna be in some kind of trouble.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:00
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Big Baby had 15 pts in the 3rd quarter? wow

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:01
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He brings ET back in to start the 4th for Iguodala. ugh, still no Sam Young.

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eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:02
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and he brought Hawes back too .... we are down 8, a trend?

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:01
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Getting ugly

D12 probably going to end up with the quietest 20-20 game you'll ever see. I think he could go for 30-30 against out front court if he was really engaged in the game.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:05
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Sixers starters - 22 pts

Glen Davis - 23 pts

sheesh

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:05
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grab it Hawes!

I'll be shocked if we score 80 this game.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:06
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Thad goes right, and gets fouled on the same play? say it ain't so....

This game doesn't feel like a win. And I'm starting to ask myself if we even will make the playoffs...

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:09
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Was not a clear out by Thad.

thad!

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:09
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Thad taking over?

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:10
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Jrue's got a leash on tonight, huh? Hasn't been seen since the 7 min mark of the 3rd.

And ET's been his buddy on the pine, and rightly so for both.

Exactly, Lou and Meeks have clearly outplayed them tonight. Stick with them.

thad again

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:11
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Even with one of the easiest upcoming schedules to finish the season, with phillies scoring problems their not guaranteed to get even 6th seed.
Time to rebuild. With so many great trading pieces we could really get some solid players if not an all star or two.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:11
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Hawes and ET come in, we go down 8.

Hawes and ET go back out, we're with in 1.

Coincidence? .............. yes

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:13
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Jrue's back in for Lou.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:15
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Andre is all over whoever he's guarding on defense. He's had 2 near steals near the sideline just from being a pest.

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Sharone Wright reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:16
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Feel like his effort is wasted on J-Rich.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:17
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Better not be any mess from Crawford or Bavetta down the stretch here.

And our great half court offense down the stretch of a close game begins...

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:18
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Sixers. In a close game. Against a +.500 team. I am terrified.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:19
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Take Glen Davis to the rack Thad, don't settle like that.

jrue finally

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:20
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Jrue +1!

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:20
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Get Meeks out.

I think it's time to get Meeks out. JJ is abusing him.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:20
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They just cant get anything easy on the offensive end . Sho t clockwinding down just about every possession.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:21
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Ugh, Redick off a curl/handoff. Two straight times. Jodie was on him the first time, second time he got caught and stumbled.

Switched to AI9 on Redick. Then he turns it over.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:22
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and jj again this time a 3

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:22
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Redick 3 after Dre switched onto him and gets caught hard on a DH screen, ugh

Really? JJ Redick? We don't deserve the Atlantic.

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:23
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Elton has to get up on that screen!

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:24
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Jrue with a tough bailout jumper.

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:24
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Good hustle, White!

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:25
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At least they're semi trying on D

Glen Davis 15 in the third and now Redick 11 in the fourth.

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:28
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Boston won, so if we can somehow win tonight, we're playing for first tomorrow.

Follow your shot Thad.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:29
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Dammit Thad, go to the hole son!!! ugh ugh ugh

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:31
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box out for the love of God

Yay, another loss. Great stuff.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:32
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and Howard is suddenly a decent free throw shooter.....

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:33
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Well, now that the short term "rooting" is out of the way

GO BUCKS!!

D12 from the line > AI9 from the line

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Sharone Wright reply to Sean K on Apr 7 at 22:35
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Brutal.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:35
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Wow Igoudala, thats how you get us back in the game.

Lou should tell a reporter he doesn't understand how someone can't shoot 70% from the free throw line.

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eddies' heady's reply to Sean K on Apr 7 at 22:39
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Who gives a shit about 15 footers....

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TwoSense on Apr 7 at 22:36
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Turner -23...in only 19 minutes. Ouch!

blame andre when your down 5 and lou takes a horrible contested 3

but i guess lou can take bad shots and no one will say anything

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Sean K reply to sixerfan1220 on Apr 7 at 22:41
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I wasn't blaming Andre for the loss. That was complete team (lack of) effort in defeat. Just pointing out that people would say being an average free throw shooter is something you could seemingly work on as much as giving effort on defense. Don't throw stones...

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:38
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especially at the guard position.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:39
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We need to make changes and trades. This team is not a contender.

alright so i'm now officially on the Blow This Team Up bandwagon.

they can't beat anyone.

who would you keep? maybe thad? maybe turner? who else?

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Rich reply to joeykey on Apr 7 at 23:57
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I don't think anyone would be safe for the right price. Ideally, I'd like to think a couple of these guys could fetch a Top 10 Pick.

Jrue and Turner would be two I'd keep, maybe Thad. None of them would be safe in my estimation though. Probably Jrue would, but he'd have one season to show that this year was a fluke.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:40
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and when your getting paid as much as AI you need to deliver more than he has

i'm done with iguodala. NEXT

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:41
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Sixers, the cure for a dysfunctional team's losing streak.

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Sean K reply to Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:46
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Coach and star player involved in a public dispute. Two starters injured. No problem, playing the spiraling Sixers tonight.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:44
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See I like Andre, just not for the amount of money hes getting paid and not as a leader and go to guy on the offense. I'd def keep Turner Thad and Jrue or maybe see what I could get for them. I think every one needs to be considered as a bargaining chip.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:44
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If they don't find a taker for Evan Turner in the offseason, I'm going to join Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor.

No way you keep this guy. Wish I could understand why he's so polarizing. I mean, a blind squirrel every once in a while finds a nut.

There's really no reason to single him out tonight, not when most of the team sucked.

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eddies' heady's reply to MCT on Apr 7 at 23:36
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Who mentioned anything about tonight?

Just weird that you're even talking about a Turner trade when the entire team fucking sucks.

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eddies' heady's reply to MCT on Apr 7 at 23:50
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Well I'd argue that he's a big reason why they suck. From the sudden thrust into the starting lineup (disruption) to his guaranteed inconsistent performances to just the overall flop of being a hopeful franshise-changing pick.

But really, this is nothing new. I shouted from the rooftops all last year to trade the guy. I'm open to them trading any single player on the squad, but getting rid of him would be a nice start.

--As for tonight, I wasn't singling him out anymore than I was Jrue, Thad, or any of the starters. Check the thread. As usual, you just choose to habitually focus on and defend him.

I don't have time to check the game thread, I really don't give a shit what you were posting during the game.

The team was sucking before he was put in the starting lineup. That's why the change was made in the first place. They aren't very good, that's why they are sucking now. It's not because of Evan Turner.

My offseason plan - amnesty Brand, let Lou and Spencer walk, and then trade two of Iguodala, Jrue, and Turner - whatever scenario brings the most back in return.

And fire Doug Collins, because he is a shitty coach and he has been for all 4 franchises he has been with.

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eddies' heady's reply to MCT on Apr 8 at 0:12
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heh, you don't have time to check the game thread? yet, you actually did check it and singled out this particular comment. Well, what do you know, it said something about the chosen one in a negative light. Typical.

Can the Jrue honeymoon be over now? He's not good. He never will be good. he's like the new Jacques Vaughn. he'll be on some random team's bench by early next season. kid is terrible.

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Sharone Wright reply to joeykey on Apr 7 at 22:47
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He's not terrrible, but he has been a tremendous disapointment for me this year. I thought he could be our killer this year, and he has been inconsistent at best.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:47
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I'd give the wolves Andre BRand and a first round for Love... wish that were a possibility

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Sharone Wright reply to Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:49
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Yeah, like the Wolves would ever do that. C'mon man.

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:50
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Lol like I said ..... Iwish it were a possibility.

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:50
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What in the world can DC say in his Presser?

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eddies' heady's reply to Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:56
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"Get me some fucking talent. And a big. And some players that can shoot the damn ball."

Sound about right?

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Sharone Wright reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:58
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Hopefully that is a transcript of his conversation with Rod "Weekend at Bernies" Thorn.

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eddies' heady's reply to Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 23:01
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Heh, good one. Very fitting.

i dunno man...he looks terrible. absolutely terrible. honestly, i cant figure out why turner and meeks catch so much heat when jrue is out there as a below average player every night. 2 years from now he'll be fighting for a 10 day contract. he's THAT BAD.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 7 at 22:53
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Sixers starters - 31 pts

Jodie and Lou - 31 pts

Sixers starters - 13 made buckets

Thad and Lou - 13 made buckets

is this the point where you're supposed to shake your head?

oh,

EB and Hawes - 8 assists

Jrue Holiday - ZERO

now do you shake it?

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Dr Leo Marvin on Apr 7 at 22:56
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LOl ... yeah those are some stats. This team is lacking identity and guys with set roles.

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Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:56
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DC just said that he will only give the current starters one more chance. I assume he means Meeks will be starting again. He usually changes two guys when he juggles his lineups, so I hope he means that Hawes will be benched, but probably not.

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eddies' heady's reply to Sharone Wright on Apr 7 at 22:58
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Really? Cause I sure hope so. We're so much better and a different team w/ Meeks out there and ET coming off the bench.

It's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, it doesn't matter what Collins does because the team is going down. It's time for a rebuild, a serious take the team down to the foundation rebuild.

IN FULL AGREEMENT

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eddies' heady's reply to RockP on Apr 7 at 23:08
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Totally agree. I just found it alarming and damn near stupid for DC to come out and say he was starting ET for the rest of the year back when he made the change. He had no reason to broadcast that, except well, it was right after David Falk was in town lurking in the tunnel, so I don't know.

Just weird to say something like that and now he's possibly going to go back on it, that causes tension and friction in a locker room. Just giving a guy a spot like that without him earning it and making a declaration for the rest of the year, and now back-tracking and possibly reversing course. If he does make the change as said above, grumblings all around I'd suppose.

Collins is trying anything he can at this point. I agree there was no reason to say Evan Turner is the starter for the rest of the season. Collins has been very confusing with his moves this season. As many have pointed out on this board, some players get longer leashes than others for no reason at all besides his personal preference.

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eddies' heady's reply to RockP on Apr 7 at 23:15
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But I often ask myself, is it longer leashes from personal preference, or, no other options when he looks down the bench?

Options are limited, especially at the 4 and 5 but Hawes is absolutely killing the team some or most nights and he gets his minutes. I don't know what Lavoy Allen or Vucevic did, but Collins can't play either of them for 10 minutes a night? If either went in the game and just gave hard fouls that would be an improvement.

i hope jrue mysteriously twists his ankle and gets traded. ive watched him be a terrible disappointment since jump. turner deserves to be the point guard.

and please allow AI9 to choose his destination. he deserves it.

said he's giving the starting lineup 1 more game & then he's changing things up. he said that unit is having chemistry issues. didn't mention Turner by name but it's pretty clear what he was talking about.

Yes, the smart thing at this juncture would be to bench Turner and obliterate whatever small amount of trust might be left between the head coach and one of the two young players the Sixers have who MIGHT turn into something...so Jodie Meeks can get minutes and hustle and dive for loose balls and lose by 5 instead of 15?

The two players who have potentially worthwhile futures in the league/on this team are Holiday and Turner. Since as of a couple hours ago it should be crystal clear to anyone who cares that the PRESENT of this group is utterly worthless, should we not let Turner and Holiday play through this existential crisis they are having as basketball players and hopefully come out better?What is the point of wringing effort minutes out of Jodie Meeks on a team that is going nowhere fast?

Further, if there is anyone on here who doubts that Collins has lost the team, I don't quite know what to say. It's pretty clear-their success was based on everyone(or enough of them) buying into the coaching that the MAXIMUM was wrung out of them and they didn't lose against bad teams and everything else. Now, the team isn't buying in, looking either indifferent, tight, or terrified that anything they do will be met with a seat on the bench and a harangue from the twitching drill sergeant at the helm(that last in the case of Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner, the development of whom a tempermentally suited head coach would see as his chief priority)

Jrue Holiday is sapped of all confidence...everytime he started to make a play tonight, you could see him thinking wait i'm fucking up i should do THIS instead!result being he stopped in mid drive to make bad passes and on and on. If you think the fact that the "point guard of the future" and the focus of hope on this site for the last three years is too terrified of making a mistake and getting benched/yelled at to play basketball is more a reflection on him than the coach, you are frankly insane(eddie's headys, I am looking in your direction)

Agree with everything you say, except I'm not sure how "more Meeks" means we do better though. Did you see Meeks "covering" Reddick in the 4th? LOL-worthy.

well Vucevic was beyond horrible for a stretch of about a month while he was still playing

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eddies' heady's reply to Mike on Apr 7 at 23:28
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yep, was getting ready to reply and say that, and Allen had tailed off considerably too.

I agree they are not perfect options, but at the very least use the fouls. That's 12 fouls unused each night. The 76ers are a horribly soft team that gets bullied around every night. Use the fouls.

This is getting to be really disappointing, but you know, hopefully this season proves to everyone in the organization that this nucleus is incapable of contending for a title.

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Tray reply to Rich on Apr 7 at 23:56
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Since a smart guy like Brian tends to not get that/thinks we're a piece away, I don't know that it'll be so obvious to Thorn.

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Rich reply to Tray on Apr 8 at 0:02
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I mean, they might be a piece and a half away, but one of those would have to be Dwight Howard. Obviously, that ain't happening and nobody else they could even theoretically acquire would be close to him in impact. I'm not sure what Brian thinks now, he may be changing his mind. I know it swung me. This season has been sobering.

I'm really scared about what the ownership and front office thinks about this team. I wouldn't resign either Hawes, because he sucks and I hate watching him play or Lou, who is valuable but also not a guy you want to be spending a lot of money on. When Lou is bad too, I hate watching him play as well.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Apr 8 at 0:14
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What swung you? This season, or this bad stretch the last month?

The whole thing. If you can't take advantage of dominating the competition for 1/3 of a shortened season, well, you aren't that good.

Eh. Derek and I talked about this on a show back when they were playing really well. Add Howard, you've got a contender. If you can't get a guy like Howard, no idea where you go. Nothing has really changed that thinking, though getting Howard has probably gone from like a 1% chance to 0.00001%. Though I guess they could give up the farm to get him this summer if Orlando doesn't want to deal with this nonsense all year next year. Of course, then Howard's gone after one year anyway.

Whatever. I'd like to see an entertaining win tomorrow night, that's all I'm focusing on right now, for my own sanity.

Your posts lack any coherent logic...you make this post, which expresses an accurate evaluation of the team's prospects for the rest of the season, yet spend the rest of your bandwidth on this thread cheering on Doug Collins choice to respond to this struggle by benching Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner, the only players on the team who could potentially develop into useful building blocks, in favor of veterans/role players whose ceiling has already been reached.

it strikes me that i'm young, 24, and i know how it feels to feel constrained by seemingly wrongheaded decisions made by oldaer and more powerful men, and that helps explin why my sympathies lie with evan turner, and the players as a whole, in this situation. if you are an aging white guy who played high school ball in the 70's or some similar profile, doug represents an idealized value system which some of the posters here are clearly deeply bound to, and the players lack of fealty to those values is some sort of threat/continued death of PLAYING(and practicing and thinking and living) THE RIGHT WAY. the racial aspect can't be ignored, it is ever present with the nba and especially evident here, with collins doting on the humble, hustling jodie meeks(whose profile of light on talent, high on effort outside shooter is roughly that of the quintessential white guard of days of yore) and compulsively aggressive in his reprisals toward turner, a brash and cocky young guy who has never given any indication that he believes doug collins knows more than evan turner about what evan turner needs to succeed in the league.

jrue fits this scheme as well-indications are that he responds to coaching with (perhaps excessive0 attempts to please rather than the quiet defiance so often written across evan turner's face-collins wants jrue to be his guy. but he's been undermining jrue's growth since the middle of last year when he announced with fanfare that andre igoudala would be playing point forward consistently, taking the team out of young holiday's hands just as his growth should have been abouut to accelerate. could the draconian penalties inflicted on the whole team if holiday commits a certain number of turnovers say something about collins' difficulties accepting the ascendent point guard culture of the league?the new nfl qb is kind of like the running quarterback-a marriage of traditional role(once upon a time, let's not forget, it was thought that a black player would not be able to handle the point guard role, and even more recently, black quarterbacks were moved to wide receiver and other positions as a matter of course in bigtime college football) with particular talents of the generation of athletes set to put their own imprint on said role

does anyone think the sixers would be worse off if jrue holiday did not feel like his teammates would hate him if he made a mistake, or that every turnover he made was indicative of failure/laziness/stupidity?might the proper approach with a young, raw, eager to please kid have been to try to teach him to learn from mistakes and recognize their causes-recognizing that a young point guard is gonna have to have games where he turns it over more than you'd like if he's ever going to reach his potential as a playmaker?

the approach i outline, i have to point out for all the "collins treats the player like his sons!" would be preferable not just for jrue holiday the young, developing nba player but for jrue holiday, the young developing man placed in surreal setting-the nba-at 19 years old, his one year of college having been spent in his hometown. perhaps a kid like jrue who all reports indicate tries very hard to be what collins asks him to be on the court requires that you err on the side of providing a safe place to learn from mistakes rather than punishment and humiliation as consequences of mistakes.it could be very valuable for young men like holiday to have a father figure, but only if that figure is as nurturing and wise as the moniker suggests. harsh, impossible to please fathers(and father figures who single out their sons' every struggle on the road to maturity as occasions for ridicule and emasculation produce dysfunctional snos

it is these dynamics that have hastened my progression from "dc-gets the most out of his team!"-"dc-eh, kinda feeling ambiguous towards the guy but want to like him"-"dc-confusing, mixed messages and who does he think he is with the army hair and bristling insecurity"-"dc-what a creep and a fraud, stop him before he coaches again"

mmy own biases are surely at work here, which i freely acknowledge and try to account for in discussing it


dc shouldn't be treating them like his sons regardless, and of course he doesnt-he treats them like what they are, the guys who changes in the game of basketball have brought to the fore, ahead of the doug collins' of the world and their offspring-but i have to smack myself in the face when i read "he looks at these guys like his sons" as an excuse for the grating and hypercritical mode which has taken over for dc-young as they are, these are professionals whose hard work in getting recognized as elite, nba-worthy talents has been significant and meaningful. evan turner was national player of the year. AND evan turner is the product of a whole different culture that doug sets himself in oppositio to with his flattop and his authoritarian harangue and specifically with his insistence that is evan turner can't flourish in the nba playing a role that he's never before played on a basketball team, he shouldn't flourish in the nba at all. even if you instinctively relate more to collins side of this generational/racial/cultural divide(which I should be sure to point out doesn't make you a bad person or a racist or anyhting like that in my book, just makes you who you are) can you try to imagine how frustrating that would be?

imagine you're et, you are picked #2 overall in the draft on the strength of your award winning college player whose game was both dominant predicated on ball dominance, got to the nba and suddenly realized that you were suddenly being judged on how energetically you come off screens?your off the ball movements in pursuit of an open look at a midrange jumper is what is prized in the offense?a tactic you've never had to utilize in pursuit of a shot that has never been a staple of your game?and you'r itching to prove yourself and everyone on the internet says you are a bust and you're trying to grin and bear it for the team's skae?then miraculously you are given the chance to do the things that you have alwsys done to help your team win, and for a few games you do, and your numbers look like you're back in the big 10 and the offense as a whole is clicking and the team is winning-and then you're back running screens again?

when i think how he must feel, the effort and will he showed in moving off the ball and trying to succeed in a role he doesn't want and is illprepared for is far more notable/impressive/revealing then his dud of a game vs. orlando, where clearly a large chunk of the team was just going through the motions.

as if evan turner is supposed to react to these first two nba years in such a way as to be the only guy left selling out for the coach and fighting through screens off the ball at the end of the year?in what world, under what logic or morality?

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eddies' heady's reply to mymanjrue on Apr 8 at 10:14
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The day you come to the realization that Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner's ceilings have also been reached, or pretty darn close if that makes you feel better, and they are also nothing more than role players, you'll be much better off for it. Then, and only then, YOU will come to the realization of the "coherent logic" (ha that was funny) in its' present.

When you finally set hope aside and eventually come around, you'll see the only block each of these guys represent in the building is that of role players - one a bit, the other a rotational borderline starter, you can figure out which.

well, i guess that's where we differ-i don't believe jrue or turner have been given the opportunity to demonstrate what if any potential for growth they possess...they both have pedigree and visible skill and in my mind at this point i don;t see why this sixers team is even playing basketball games if not to try and get answers to the question marks hanging over those two players...with everyone else on the team, you pretty much know what you have

i think if you were honest you'd acknowledge that the two players on the roster most likely to be markedly better nba players in the future are holiday and turner-note that most likely is not the same as likely

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eddies' heady's reply to mymanjrue on Apr 9 at 0:55
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I just was honest with you, but you still don't respect it apparently. Being you said if I were honest...

Once again, I said when you set aside hope you'll see that most likely and markedly better is slim to none - with both of 'em.

but who on the team is more likely than tose too?

at this juncture it is hard for me to understand how anyone who follows this team can miss doug collins' seemingly concerted effort to destroy evan turner, in particular, as a basketball player over the last two years. i'm outraged by it personally. sorry for implying dishonesty on your part. i don't get it but enjoy

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dave reply to mymanjrue on Apr 8 at 11:45
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Although i am not a huge supporter of collins i think your dead wrong on the racial aspects of doug collins coaching and comparing them to everybodys same beliefs.

For example a couple weeks ago mike brown benched kobe for not playing well which kobe was not happy for. Yes, lobe for his whole career has been able to work through his off nights but mike brown is not that kinda coach, he went with the hotter hand. is mike brown a rascist. Doug Collins has a coaching philosphy that has worked for him and hurt him in the same seasons, this is whats happening now.

Doug Collins strategy works and letting a player play through off nights works too but they are all on individual basis. The guy picked before turner has has the luxury of playing through off nights, look what it has done for him.

hey, you're probably right...either way
likely I wrote that stuff more in reaction to the total identification of many fans withh collins...philadelphia sports fans definitely have race issues and naturally they are most pronounced in basketball...often think the highest ideal of basketball for a certain kind of philadelphia is a big fivwe game at the palestra cira 66 or something


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