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Nets Make Sixers Look Good

I feel so dirty naming Hawes player of the game. Kind of fitting, for this season.

ha...I know how you feel...

Plus, Lou had a good game too!It's like a nightmare scenario...Doug was probably ready to throw 90 million at the two of them last night...listening to him heap praise on Spence made me break out in a cold sweat

BTW-wondering if you've noticed that DeMarcus Cousins is playing out of his mind?Apparently he is responding really well to a big man coach they brought in. He is beasting-25 and 18 last night, averaging something like 23 and 12 in the last month. I loved his diss of Blake Griffin too. Still think he's an uncoachable cancer?I have no idea what his personality is but it just seems silly to me to write someone off because they're immature at 19.

I know I boost ET all the time but that's in comparison to the other players on the Sixers...it's even more tragic to me that Cousins was on the board and we passed him up-hes a top 5 big man right now and likely the best player from that draft the way things are going, a potential superstar...and I've spent the season watching any opposing player who wants to push Sixers big men out of rebounding position with only Brand putting up a fight

I would trade Igoudala PLUS Jrue or ET for Cousins...but Sacramento would hang up the phone...I'd even toss in this year's #1

re18954 on Apr 11 at 2:40

Thats the hawes that helped us get off to a good start. If he can continue to play like that, we might be able to win a game against Miami

DC in the postgame when someone asked about 00 not starting: "Jeff Capel's the best, he told Spencer, 'go back to your room and act like a little child, tear up your room, give me the bill, and then be ready to play tonight.' so Spencer texted him, he said 'i just went back to my room, trashed my room, busted up my TV, charged the room to you but I'm ready to roll,' so we're good...I don't want to talk to Spencer at that time, that's the time when you have somebody step in and talk to him, and Spencer came back like i knew he would. Spencer is a damn good player, and he got in a rhythm tonight, and when he plays like that he makes us altogether different..."

Spencer is a stiff who had his soft slop find the bottom of the hoop tonight. It really worries me when I read garbage like that.

L. A. Steve reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 14:44

You're right about that! Hawes had a good game against nobody, and I mean nobody! If Brook Lopez would have been there, it would have been a different story.

Since I'm not a soothsayer, predicting the future is risky at best, but based on what I've seen recently, it looks to me like Turner is looking for a one way ticket out of here. Last night he appeared to be going through the motions, his heart wasn't in it at all. That, and the comment about not being one of the key members on the team just gave me the sense that he wants to get as far away from Doug Collins as possible. Frankly, I hope he gets it, as long as Doug is the coach, it's not going to happen for him here. He'll be a fish out of water in this poor excuse of an offense. The fact of the matter is he's not a spot-up shooter and that's what Doug's offense calls for him to be. Coach is so locked into Jrue at the point, there is no way that I can see Evan playing there.

Since our new management appears to be firmly committed to Doug, I see no other course of action but to trade him. Let's just hope we get something decent in return, however, based upon the Speights deal, I expect we'll be fleeced again.

Eh, Doug isn't really committed to Jrue at the point. In terms of raw minutes, he probably plays the point the most, but it's not even half the time overall. It probably goes Jrue, Lou, Iguodala, Turner in terms of being the "point." I think in terms of percentage of time on the floor when they're running the point, Lou is by far the leader. He's almost always dominating the ball when he's out there.

L. A. Steve reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 16:38

According to a recent quote that appeared on CSN.COM, Doug stated the following: "I put the ball in Jrue's hands and I trust his judgment completely". So, it appears that Jrue can do what he wants: shoot, pass, whatever. The fact that he looks for his shot first is his decision, he could just as easily look pass first, it's his call.

Jrue plays a lot of minutes, and he is, officially, the team's point guard. Last year Doug Collins went on record saying Jrue Holiday is going to be a top 5 NBA point guard in the near future. So I expect if Jrue started dropping dimes like a Magic Johnson, I think Doug would be passing out cigars like a proud papa, saying, that's my son.

Tom Moore reply to das411 on Apr 11 at 8:37

Collins and Hawes explained that trashing the hotel room didn't really happen - was just a figure of speech.

What actually happened was that Spencer tried to knock the television set over, but somehow wound up getting pushed all the way out into the hallway. He then spun, threw the remote control over his shoulder at the television (now about fifteen feet away from him), missed, and it was time to get ready for the game.

He then got rejected by the lampshade.

hahaha, comment of the year

Tom Moore on Apr 11 at 8:33

While it was nice to see some actual sustained effort...if the Sixers are going to win a bunch of games against lousy teams down the stretch because Spencer Hawes does another extended impersonation of a worthwhile basketball player, I'd rather that they not bother at this point.

Honestly, it was chimerical, that game...against a bad and disinterested team, the Sixers showed effort and everything-but as I've said, my concerns are Jrue and Evan and figuring out what we can learn about them going forward. on that front last night was just as disappointing as so many other games recently-Jrue was doing his best Lou Williams impersonation and Evan was improperly utilized.

Allow me to beat that drum a little bit-at one point, substitutions were made and Turner, Meeks and Lou were on the floor together-looking at Brian's always useful rotation chart, it's the last group of the third quarter. Malik Rose(who has been fantastic lately) says "I really like this look Mark because with this lineup coming on the floor we can really see Evan Turner playing some point guard and doing what he does best"

So, I perk up momentarily...but of course, Lou brings it up the floor...and they get into their set , and Lou is pounding leather in the backcourt with Jodie while Evan stands in the corner.

In Evan's roughly 20 minutes, he rarely touched the ball, so he did not make much of an impact-but he did throw the BEST PASS of the game, a beautiful bounce pass in transition for a Hawes dunk. It was a perfect pass, and the kind of thing that we saw a lot of when Evan had the ball in his hands for 5 games.

Evan Turner had one great play last night-on the ONE PLAY where he came up the floor with the ball in his hands.

So, Brian, your statement("Evan Turner didn't quite show the same enthusiasm as Hawes for his demotion to the bench brigade. Turner finished 1/4 without many memorable plays") is totally accurate...but it drives me crazy because it seems really unfair(not on your part-just that ET looks bad because he doesn't do much off the ball, but on his ONE opportunity with the ball in transition he makes the play of the game)
I'm just saying, if you coached Evan Turner and you wanted him traded because of a personality clash or something, and you wanted to give him minutes but set him up for failure...you would design offensive sets where he stands in the corner spacing the floor(despite the fact that long 2s/3s are his biggest weakness as an offensive player!) and never touches the ball.

That's what Doug Collins has done. He put him in the lineup(which I doubt, really doubt, was Doug's idea) and even let him use his strengths offensively for five games, four of which saw the team shoot 50% from the floor. In 3 of those five games, the team shot 50% and won with 100 points or better while getting to the free throw line 20-25 times. They were easily the most impressive wins of the season, all coming over potential playoff teams.

If you coached this team and you wanted Evan Turner to be an important of the team, now and for years to come(because, you know, you used your most important draft pick in fifteen years on him), you would have been ecstatic after those five games. You would have told your guys that the offense you ran for those 5 games would be your offense for the rest of the season and to adjust accordingly. You would have told the media/fans that this was why you had picked Evan Turner #2, that they should come down to the arena for the rest of the season and see the future of the franchise. You would have said that it wouldn't always look as easy as it did against the Celtics or on that Sunday afternoon at Madison Square Garden, and that there would be bumps in the road, that there might be more turnovers than you'd prefer etc, but that you were committed to letting Evan Turner be your playmaker and accepting the inevitable occasional growing pains.

You would have done this NOT simply because he was the 2nd pick in the draft, but because the four guys(Jrue, Evan, Iggy, Hawes) who are "ball friendly" on your squad had all been given a chance to have the offense run through them, and the offense looked best with the ball running through Evan. You would point out that Jrue and Igoudala played much better with Evan on the ball than Evan did with Jrue or Igoudala on the ball, so you believed that putting Evan on the ball was the best way to maximize the contributions of your three best perimeter players.

Doug Collins has responded to that 5 game stretch by taking Turner off the ball and having him stand in the corner, spacing the floor

Doug Collins is more invested in the growth and evolution of Spencer Hawes than the growth and evolution of Evan Turner. He practically blew big Spence in his press conference yesterday, gushing and grinning as he described how Spencer tore apart his hotel room after being removed from the starting lineup

mchezo reply to mymanjrue on Apr 11 at 16:55

Lou did an excellent job running the point last night. He did not pound the ball.

The Nets took the ball out of his hands with doubles. He did a good job of getting rid of it.

You're right...the two most annoying players on the team-and two of DC's pets-played perhaps their best games of the year last night. 20 pts on 8 shots for Lou, 8 boards(!), 5 assists-great game. But a chimera. That is not who Lou is, we know who Lou is

mchezo reply to mymanjrue on Apr 11 at 18:15

we don't all agree on Lou.

I actually kind of miss the Lou Troll. At least it was something different.

I thought Jrue had another bad game, despite his 15 pts. Seemed like a lot of jacking shots early in the shot clock, especially in the first quarter. Terrible. If that's how he is going to play basketball, he is not a point guard. Why don't we try having Jrue standing in the corner spacing the floor and put Evan in the backcourt with the ball?

Jrue can actually hit those shots so it would ACTUALLY space the floor, plus I can imagine some beautiful give and go action with Jrue penetrating off of movement in those type of sets

Seems a way to make the most of the demonstrated talents of the two most important guys on the team...plus, ya know, doesn't basketball generally work better when someone plays point guard?I miss the point guard position when I watch the Sixers

By the way, I watched the pregame yesterday-couple observations. 1-Jrue did a little interview with Dei Lynam and at the end he looked at the camera, winked and pointed his index finger. I wanted to punch him. gotta get a new handle. 2-Marc Jackson was asked which of Jrue/Evan he thought more likely to be an AllStar at some point, and I loved his answer-Evan, because while they both have skill and talent, Evan has shown more of a killer instinct, basically. This is absolutely true, and yyet another heartbreaking and infuriating aspect of Turner's misuse-though I know it will send some into paroxysms because it involves making observations of basketball players as human beings and there is no Synergy metric for that

you are being too partial to Turner while dismissing Holiday. I think Holiday has the better chance to be an All-Star simply because Turner has not developed any semblance of an outside shot. Jrue concerns me but I will stick with the 'he's still just 21yrs old' defense for now.
But above all, I don't know how any sane person can continue to have optimistic outlooks like All-star-dom for any member of this team. Right now, what you see and what you project; the distance between is HUGE.

I don't discount mental makeup in athletes. I do think we are generally unreliable in determining it, though.

I'll agree with this, but I'm often fascinated how people try to determine mental make up...like KG is a 'warrior' cause he screams like a little girl all the time, or if some guy doesn't smile he's not enjoying himself.

Sure, I believe the science of 'microexpressions' exists, but it takes a hell of a long time to be able to determine what's going on by someone just looking at their face...

To me, it's not about the KG-style screaming and stuff, it's more subtle...Turner has a competitive edge that I like-hitting a shot in DWade's face and letting him know about it, even when he got in Durant's face

I look at it as a Potter Stewart thing-"I don't know how to define it but I know it when I see it"

Yeah, except you don't see it on television

And I see Evan Turner talking smack to Wade or Kevin Durant as immaturity and stupidity, dude has accomplished nothing in the league, less than nothing, he puts together a few games and then thinks he can talk smack, to me that reeks of entitlement and a lack of understanding of how to achieve REAL success in the NBA

Two people see the same thing and see it entirely differently :)

Ha, yeah...I was at the OKC game and my reaction at the time was like yours-shut up ET, you're making him mad. It got the crowd jacked up-maybe the most excitement all year apart from the Laker game, sadly enough-but Durant silenced it with a 3

After I posted those examples I thought well god, bad examples...I said I couldn't define it but I tried anyway!

So I'll just say that I've seen flashes of a competitive edge/killer instinct/insert cliche, ineffable flashes, from Evan Turner and nada from Jrue(and I've looked, believe me!I want to love Jrue!)...I think Evan could be a killer in this league...and leave it at that

The "he's still just 21" thing is really misguided, in my opinion-maybe I am wrong, but I think time in the league getting minutes is what is relevant. Turner has had five games to showcase his main talent and he played like an all star

I don't discount the possibility that my Turner crush is just grasping at straws...but I believe he will be an all star in his career, I really do

Think you overvalue outside shooting a little bit, but also think Turner's shooting stats are a little misleading...he's a very psychological player who feeds off of rhythm and involvement-if you recall the those first games as a starter, he shot well once he got going. He isn't a 3 point shooter and I guess not within like 4 ft of the 3 point line(which is a shot that it is never smart to take anyway, although Jrue loves it...one game I attended he caught the ball with his feet set behind the line, STEPPED FORWARD inside the line and shot-he missed), but other than that...he can knock down 18 footers...he is a much much better shooter than someone like Rondo, not someone you can play off of from that range. But if you tell me he got 4 shots in a game playing off ball, well...(the one he made was a catch and shoot from baseline 18ft or so)

Do feel like this could also end with me in a padded room somewhere telling the attendants about THE THREE GAMES

Turner has had five games to showcase his main talent and he played like an all star

He had more than five games to show case his main talent - you choose to focus on the five games he played well and ignore the games he played badly.

What other games were there where e played 35 min and dominated the ball?If there are others I didn't see 'em

L. A. Steve reply to mymanjrue on Apr 11 at 15:55

When it comes to ET, you and I are on the same page. Evan should be at the 1, and Jrue at the 2. I've been saying it forever, but it's not going to happen here, not as long as Doug Collins is our coach.

Dou Collins is unreal, I've never seen a coach show so much partiality toward certain players. He has his favorites and he's devoted to them, to the point where he loses all objectivity. They can do no wrong, regardless of what they do on the court. Personally, I think he's broken Evan. Last night it appeared to me that he was just going through the motions. You know, bring the ball up, initiate the offense by passing it to a teammate, cut through the lane, and go stand in the corner while a teammate takes another bad shot. Just to clarify, he's not doing that on his own, that's Doug's offense, it's scripted that way.

A big problem for Evan is Doug's offense has digressed into isolation basketball, there's not much passing going on. For the most part Evan gets one touch per offensive possession, and that's definitely not conducive for his game. In order for him to perform at optimal level he needs to have multiple touches per possession, and have his teammates in motion finding open spots. If he's in a rhythm he can make shots, if he's spotting up, not so much. And for some reason he's not driving the lane enough. I loved it when he would drive the lane, stop on a dime, and put up a 5' J, for some reason, that's disappeared.

As I posted earlier today, Unfortunately, as long as Collins is the coach I believe Evan is doomed, he's done everything possible to screw him up. Based on what I've seen recently. I think Evan has pretty much given up and is looking for the door.

Jrue isn't a 2 - no matter how much Doug Collins tries to make him one...if it comes down to a choice between evan turner or jrue holiday - evan should be traded away

Man, I agree with every word of your post...it's reassuring that I'm not out of my mind...would love to know what the backstory is with Collins and ET. Collins wants him gone, I feel like that's why he put him in the starting lineup-so he could fail. I would guess that rather than focus on the offense looking better than it has in years, he rode Evan about the turnovers and that's why he took him off the ball. Now Doug can say well I started him!I tried my best!

in summation

A Hawes led victorty over a lottery team?thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere

no Bargnani for the raptors tonight

For some reason I would have rather lose than win due to a good game by Hawes, Meeks, or Lou. I just don't want the Sixers to invest a lot of money in them.

If the sixers are swayed by one game against a lottery team missing its best big man, then it really doesn't matter because the sixers are going to stink forever

Stan reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 16:33

I think it's possible. I hope Spencer ends the season playing poorly because a lot of GMs have invested money into players based on how they have ended their seasons. If Hawes plays well it will be a justification to his level of play in the beginning of the season and crappy play in the middle of the season will just be brushed aside as him adjusting to his injuries.

It's funny, but when Hawes and Meeks have a good game you can see a more enthusiastic version of Doug Collins at the post game interviews. It's sort of a vindication to him of the commitment he has shown to Hawes and Meeks.

Anonymous on Apr 11 at 14:07

Continuing my comments from a couple days ago, I'd say Brands value this year went beyond what the stats indicate, but for one, basketballvalue has his adj +/- as the 2nd best sixer at 6.61.

Anonymous reply to Anonymous on Apr 11 at 14:09

The only vets I spotted ahead of him were Nash, Dunkin, KG, and pierce. Both power forwards making 20 million.


He still isn't part of the long term future of the sixers, maybe if he's that good he can be traded, but he shouldn't be on the sixers any more - this is a team going nowhere if the roster doesn't undergo massive overhaul - and he isn't available in back to back games, and he's not getting younger

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 14:22

At least he's a start. I dont believe he's the reason the team fell apart later this year. I think he's at least a building block for a contender, if you want one over the next few years.

Brand a building block for a contender? You are batshit crazy

Anonymous reply to MCT on Apr 11 at 15:16

When Brand signed his last contract my initial reaction was very worried because he was getting older and coming off a serious injury. But now he's improving and playing like a valuable puzzle piece.

I appreciate how hard Brand works, and I am not someone who thinks his signing has been a bust. Just more of a dissapointment. But he is a class act and a professional and you can't say that about many players these days.

But I agree with those who want to blow up this ship and start over, and that includes veterans like EB. I hope he goes to a contender and contributes for them but there is no longer a place for him on this team, in my opinion.

Committing that type of money to a guy Brand's age is pretty much out of the question. To me, he seems to be running on fumes right now.

Anonymous reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 14:36

Considering he's already set to make 18m next year this isnt a huge difference. Sort of like 18m and then 5m after that. Plus he's only 33, hard to replace, and I think he improved the last 2 years.

I'm not sure what argument you're making. Are you saying if he declines his option for next season, you then re-sign him for 3 or 4 years? You can't renegotiate a contract, so he's either making $18M next year, or he's opting out, which I don't think is very likely.

Anonymous reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 14:48

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, that was assuming we could negotiate a new contract this offseason, negating the 18m, like we had discussed a couple days ago. Not assuming he would accept but I'd offer.

I'm pretty sure that isn't technically allowed.

Anonymous reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 15:09

If renegotiating isnt allowed then maybe they could opt out and sign at the same time. Better than riding out the 18m season, and I'd hate to scrap him. His intangibles and position are hard to fill.

It's not up to them, though. Why would Brand opt out?

Anonymous reply to Brian on Apr 11 at 15:22

So he doesnt have to move? So they dont amnesty him? To help the team? He doesnt have to and if he'd rather pick up and go that's his choice, but I'd hope he likes Philly and wants to stay long term.

You think brand still has a few years left and don't think he's career arc will head downward as he gets older?

He's had too many injuries and he's too old to be a building block - he's a complimentary piece - say if the celtics decide to trade pau gasol - maybe he helps there - a good bench guy for dallas or the spurs

Ghe's not a centerpiece for the sixers, or any team starting over, because of his age, you can't ignore that

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 14:42

I feel like you need veterans to build. Unless you want to scrap them all, but we have too much talent to scrap it all and rebuild. Veterans and big men have value. I dont predict a sudden drop off.

1. You need veterans if the rest of your team is players about to enter the prime - you don't need veterans if you're starting over from scratch - which the sixers (imo) need to do if they want to do more than lose in the first round.

2. I disagree with your assertion that the sixers have 'too much talent' to scrap it all and rebuild

3. Old big men with an injury history who can't play 35 MPG and show up for back to backs do not have a lot of value, if you don't predict a drop off, that's just a flaw in your htinking in my opinion because as guys get older their games go down hill - it's a fact - a career is not a plateau for ever, it hits a peak and then after some time heads down hill...and brand is on the down slope

But if you believe the sixers as constructed are only one piece away from contending for an NBA titlle, you should post as billy king, not anonymous, cause that's how the sixers partially got here in the first place

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 17:09

If you want to scrap Jrue, Turner, Lou, Iguodala and Brand then I think we could get high lottery picks. Since 4 of them work as point guards I'd rather trade parts for parts and hopefully sign a big.

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 17:15

On second thought, I cant imagine how bad the team would be this year without Brand down low. We could ditch him and sign more point guards. That could also help us lose :)

Anonymous reply to Anonymous on Apr 11 at 14:14

I'd also offer him 4 years at 8m each, 3 years at 9m, 3 years with team options for years 4 and 5 at 9.5 mil, and if he ups the offer i'd probably still accept. He seems to fit well in Philly

I think a lot of players would look good if they played 35min and dominated the ball. To give an example; Devin Harris in Jersey pre-Williams era.

meant as reply to Anonymous.


I must be getting old.

Anonymous reply to jkay on Apr 11 at 15:28

Does elton brand dominate the ball? I didn't notice. He only scores about 10ppg.

heh. best to just ignore the comment.

Question for those with Synergy access:

How frequently do the Sixers run pick-and-roll with Thad Young as the big and which of the guards do they do it with?

To me, it seems as though they don't use it much (relative to other teams in the league)and that it could be a way to get Thad more opportunities catching the ball while headed to the rim.

Brian, I am going to send you an article. There is a game tonight- so maybe it will be a good fit for tomorrow or the next day.


Actually, I'm having a hard time finding the data I need. I will email you. If I can't find the data I'll just post what I have in this thread.

Random thought: Anyone here think Derrick Rose will play out his contract in Chicago?
I worry if his knees and ankles can carry the weight of those blurring moves he makes and the hopes of the Chicago faithful proclaiming the second coming. I see him being more DL friendly than Wade.

Stan reply to jkay on Apr 11 at 16:39

I don't think his situation is as bad as Brandon Roy's. Even if he's only 60% of the player, he'll play out his contract. All of that money is guaranteed, Chicago has no choice but to pay it out.

Anonymous on Apr 11 at 15:44

I hate to start an empty rumor, but my feeling is the decline this season was partially due to some sort of locker room issues. Iguodala's negative SI comments about Philly and team are partially why.

Anonymous reply to Anonymous on Apr 11 at 15:47

I still believe that Turner needs to be a point guard which is another issue, but all this adds up to questions about chemistry, which s extremely impotant for a superstarless ball sharing team.

Then why start an empty rumor, and then of course dump it on Iguodala

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 16:25

That's my feeling. I hope its not an empty rumor. Dougs comments where he gave no analysis of the decline also led me to believe there may be something behind the scenes, not necessarily iguodala.

It's not like your breaking new ground with your thoughts that there are 'locker room issues' - I'm sure there are.

As much as doug collins is praised as a great coach -there's a reason he hasn't made it through year 3 at his jobs...i'm not sure why he's so praised considering he's ben run out of his last two jobs

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 16:32

Agree that the Collins praise is unwarranted, he's a lifer so I think that has a lot to do with the generally good rep he has around the league. But when you look at the actual resume, it doesn't quite live up.

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 17:00

Well ok, but I was also extending this as a theory for the sudden decline, as a result of chemistry. I dont think the team is as bad as they played the past couple weaks.

The clear subtext of articles, comments etc from people with locker room access is that there are problems. Kate Fagan's piece was explicit about it, leaving aside the SI quote. Malik Rose said on twitter(lol) that he "hopes Dre and Lou can get past it" which would imply that it's a problem. Plus anyone with any insight into NBA players should realize that a perceived diss in a national magazine is going to cause friction

I think part of it is something Kate's post alluded to-the marketing of the Sixers took a sharp turn away from Igoudala and Brand and towards Jrue and Lou. Brand seems unruffled but that seems like the kind of thing that would aggrieve Andre...Fagan said "it's been a hard year in the locker room"

You can pretend that these types of resentments aren't nursed in NBA locker rooms and that a public slam in a national magazine wouldn't inflame them

You can pretend that Kate Fagan(who KNOWS THE PLAYERS) doesn't have credibility or has a bias against Igoudala

but you're pretending
Igoudala ain't a saint...the kkneejerk dismissal of criticism of Iggy is way more annoying at this point than criticism...I don't see much kneejerk Igoudala hate going on...most people who criticize him around here respect his game and have been fans but aren't blind...the reality is it's time for him to go and he is going to-Utah maybe?Al Jefferson?

Sigh, if you ever bothered to read my 'defense' of Iguodala you'd comprehend that it's not knee jerk - my problem with people of your ilk is your critisicm of Iguodala is based on bull shit and skills he's never had or shown to have but you think cause he got paid more money he should suddenly figure out how to do things HES NEVER DONE BEFORE...it's stupid, it's inane, and it ignores the facts in front of you.

I don't care what Iguodala said in the Sports Illustrated article because IT WAS TRUE - and players call other team mates out ALL THE TIME in public - only people who hate the player hate the quotes.

I'm not getting into specifics about Iguodala any more with you or any other folks who think the problems with the sixers start with Iguodala or think 'he doesn't score enough points he's not good enough' - because it's based in bullshit - and there's enough bull shit

Man, see this is what you do, I DON'T MAKE THOSE CRITICISMS!You lump people together!I don't think his contract is out of line!I basically agree with you on Igoudala as a player. I believe he should have been traded about 18 months ago is all

You lump all criticism of Igoudala into one thing-the PERCEPTION of what you think it's about even when you just told me that the things I criticize about Igoudala are things i've NEVER SAID, and it's annoying and insulting

Anonymous reply to GoSixers on Apr 11 at 18:00

How about lou call him out then and say he cant score well especially under pressure (in the playoffs or at the end of games)? Would that help the team? Really I like his game but he has flaws too.

Anonymous reply to mymanjrue on Apr 11 at 17:27

I had never heard any of these points before. Very informative, thanks

Kate knows the players, and many of the people in the locker room, but she hasn't been in the locker room in months. While she still clearly talks to people, she hasn't witnessed much first hand.

What I can say from my experience in the locker room is I don't think this is an Iguodala problem. Maybe he could provide slightly better leadership? Sure. With a coach like Collins, who can harp, hearing it from a peer as well can provide some reinforcement and make Collins' job easier. But I think this is a Collins issue. Iguodala can be somewhat aloof, but the general vibe I get in the locker room and interviewing them, there isn't animosity between Iguodala and the others. I saw Lou explaining his relationship with Andre, and I saw him interract with Andre that day in the locker room, and I do believe that there isn't a problem between the two.

Not to mention (and the Iguodala haters haven't mentioned it) that both Lou and Andre were interviewed by ESPN for the last ESPN telecast and both of them said it was a joke - that Andre was always talking to lou about stuff like that, and that's how lou took it - now - that could be utter BS - but both Loou and Andre presented it as something 'taken out of context' and something they've joked about before.

I disagree on the leadership thing, people either are or aren't leaders - and Iguodala isn't one - and I'm fine with that - it's not in his DNA - that's who he is.

Thanks for the insight, Derek...nice to hear a firsthand view.

My impression of Andre-and of course it is just that, an impression based on what I see on TV an in interviews-is aloof, like you said, and intelligent...feel like he'd be capable of slipping in some pretty cutting remarks when motivated-but, I also feel like he feels misunderstood, so maybe I am misunderstanding totally. He seems like a pretty interesting guy actually

I think the 'lou' comment was what he said, and lou said, a joke, and i htink the 'win a championship and kill someone' comment had to do with how iverson didn't take grief for all his legal problem (while he was a sixer) and guys like Iguodala (and McNabb) perform at high levels and stay 'clean' but are shredded by the fan base, the talk radio, and don't even have the support of their own organiziations.

I very much get the impression he's TIRED of playing for the sixers, in Philadlephia, and I honestly don't blame him

certainly agree with that last sentence

I have a pretty nuanced opinion about Igoudala...but I do think they should've dealt him prior to last season or early in the season...not for Monta Ellis, but...

I wish him well when he leaves Philly...on opening night, there were boos when he was introduced so I made a point of standing up to clap-I'm not a hater

Nuanced, there's that word again, you keep using it, I do not think it means what you think it means

You know those TV shows where they rehash the same plot every season- like House almost being fired, a couple almost getting together, the group almost getting off the island...

That is how I feel about Iguodala and the Sixers. It has been the same plot-line for years now. How many times can a guy be on the way out and yet keep coming back? Whether you think he is deserving of the criticism or not, whether you think he should stay on the team or not, whether you think he is overpaid or not... can we just have an end to it? Just trade the guy after this season and be done with it. I don't even care what they get back- just move on to the next chapter, I've read this one already.

Stan reply to tk76 on Apr 11 at 17:45

I've been watching House for the past 7 years and still haven't gotten tired of it.

I got tired of house somewhere in the second season...i watched the 'rehab' episode for andre braugher and lin manuel miranda - but can't say i even realized it was still on when it was announced this would be the end of the show.

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