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Where Do They Go From Here?

Hey Brian, do you think Chicago might be interested in Turner?

With Rose out for all or most of next year, they might be interested in having a guy who could dominate the offense. They may want a guy who can stand in for Rose (albeit inefficiently) instead of tanking a year.

They might. I'd trade him for Taj Gibson. Don't think Chicago would, though.

I wonder if David Kahn wants Evan Turner

And as we all know, Daryl Morey over values players based on where they were drafted, Evan Turner was the #2 pick in the draft, should be able to trade him straight up for Kevin Martin ;) (Kevin Martin really? You think the sixers should obtain Kevin Martin - I'm almost certain there's some sort of turn around in that thinking from past comments)

I still have hope for Turner, he showed progression, but I'm meh on him, staying or going...my opinions on this team haven't changed much from before the playoffs have started (including Lavoy Allen), but it all starts with Thorn, fire Thorn or I have no hope

I kind of doubt they'll fire Thorn. I think he's already been marginalized to the extreme. They'll let him keep showing up and collecting his checks.

Kevin Martin is a good fit now, imo, because his style of play fits, and he's on the last year of his deal. Keeps the flexibility open.

And trying to trade with Daryl Morey is a nightmare and a half :)

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Stan reply to Brian on May 29 at 13:41
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Evan Turner has two years left with the last year being a team option. I just don't like the idea of trading Turner and Thad for a perimeter player, and I've never been a big fan of Kevin Martin. I'd rather use them to trade for Josh Smith or Marcin Gortat. Amnesty Brand and use whatever cap space for Gordon or Hill.

Brian - is the amnesty option "use it or lose it", AND only for a player on the roster prior to the lockout? If so I agree on using it for Brand. If not, and we can hold on to it, could Brand's giant contract be a chip in a year? I know it's not easy to match up $18 mil in a trade, but just curious to get your thoughts.

I agree with most everything you said, and I would add that they need to send Thorn packing ASAP as well. He is not a war time consigliere, and I thing we need bold moves here. I am a fan of McGee so I would make a competitive offer sheet.

McGee has a bad rap after his time in Washington, and while he looked good in Denver, it was a small sample...Denver is an interesting team this off season, they have a lot of moving pieces but no 'superstar' either.

The amnesty can be used once, on players who were under contract before the new CBA...the only sixer options are Lou, Andre, Brand...I don't think 'expiring contracts' have that much value any more...there was a short period of time a few years ago that they were quite valuable for certain teams, but now not so much...I don't think holding on to brand in the hopes you find a taker for his contract when his game is almost completely gone is a good idea. he should be amnestied if the goal is winning. He gives the team cap flexibility they don't HAVE to use it right away, but at least it's there.

You know what is better than an expiring contract? Cap space. And you can trade away cap space instead of a player (trade exception for the other team).

That's the best way to land a high quality player on a reasonable contract this offseason IMO.

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The Six reply to Xsago on May 29 at 12:22
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True.

Yeah, agreed. This is something I've gone back and forth over, the playoffs kind of clinched it for me. I thought Brand was a big part of the success of the team, but he was nonexistent in the playoffs and they still defended exceptionally well. I think no matter what the plan is, using the amnesty on him is the best idea.

I don't think that Thorn is in charge of basketball decisions. It seems like, for beter or worse, Collins is running the show and that Thorn is there to provide his expertise on the technical side of how transactions get done.

Didn't see that comment until now, but contrary to Coach Parcells, I don't want DOug Collins making roster decisions...Coach's have short term self motivated interest when building a team...that's why GM's exist. Why isn't that dude with basketball front office experience taking over?

And is collins taking over draft decisions as well?

Wish he had control over the draft a couple years ago.

I think he would have taken Wes Johnson. Wes is more athletic and a better shooter. He was a Doug Collins type player.

I think he had control of the 2011 draft - all reports were that he LOVED Vucevic. IMO, Stefanski picked Turner on his way out the door and he was replaced with Collins as the talent evaluator and Thorn as the business guy.

Thorn was never the talent evaluator

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CM reply to CM on May 29 at 15:28
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Also, he watched Lavoy Allen in person several times during the 2010-2011 season.

Brian,

First-- thanks for all the work you put in this year. I'm sure doing all of the research and writing took a hell of a lot of time, so I just wanted to express my gratitude for that.

Second-- Curious what you think of Nicolas Batum. I know he'll be expensive to obtain, but I think a perimeter combination of Jrue-Batum-Iguodala would be insane defensively, and Batum can both shoot the three and play off the ball. If we could get him for a S&T of Turner&Thad or Turner & a 1st, would you be in favor of it?

Lastly--I've been giving some thought to playing Evan in a 6th man role if we (hopefully) don't resign Lou. He seems like an ideal backup, since he can replace any of the PG, SG or SF if they're struggling. This would also give them the ball in his hands to run the 2nd unit, which would benefit him. What are your thoughts on this?

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The Six reply to Stuart on May 29 at 12:27
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I am disappointed in ET's playoff performance like many, but I saw a lot of progress this year. If he is part of a trade that would get us a young Big, or a young legit scorer, I'm in favor of it. Otherwise I am fine with him being on the team next year. Sixth man may be a good option if his ego can handle it.

I think Nikola will improve in spite of his lack of athleticism. He is too weak and gets pushed around easily, but If you look at him from his freshman year at USC to his junior year, you can see that he was very dedicated in building his body and getting stronger. Hopefully that continues. We all know he's surrounded by a strong basketball family and now a coach who seems like he's invested in developing the youth on his roster.

For that reason, we definitely won't see Turner being moved. I'm not insinuating that Iguodala should be moved instead, I feel that there are things that should be attempted before you shuffle the perimeter, namely frontcourt improvement. We haven't seen what JTI can do with a functional threat inside. As we saw in the waning minutes of game seven, Jrue continually penetrated to score but without any inside movement there were no passing lanes or easy feeds to keep the defense guessing.

I suppose I could be counted amongst the Turner apologists. I readily admit that he doomed the team, at times, throughout the playoffs. The final straw that I would grasp for him wouldn't be that he is out of position, but that his two major flaws that have made him so inefficient, poor shooting percentages and turnovers, are two areas that are more easily improved. I'm not sure if he'll improve enough, I certainly hope he isn't given a prominent role to kill the offense with inefficiency for a year. But he seems to have the drive and determination to improve, and if he doesn't, I doubly hope that the front office is cutthroat enough to wash their hands of him.

Not sure how the family and 'body mass increase' of Nikola connects to Evan Turner not being traded?

Depending on who you talk to nationally, the playoffs were a coming out party or indication of the flatness of him as a player...find someone impressed by how he played, parlay 'second pick in the draft' maximize value.

I meant youth and commitment to development in general. It's more likely that route is taken unless a sureshot opportunity, one that's worth sacrificing the youth movement, presents itself. That scenario would involve a tag-team partner (you know, those guys that want no part of Philly) coming in to play with Dre and everyone else being expendable. Unless they sell out their entire roster to bring in Thomas Robinson, but that's even more expensive.

It's interesting how Thorn has disappeared over the past few months. I've seen Harris and Aron talk far more about the future of the team. Others have mentioned this and i do agree about it, that Thorn is pretty much an afterthought in the decision process right now.

It makes you wonder who is truly in charge. Collins? Aron? Levien? All of the above?

If we amnesty Brand, Hopefully this opens the door to not only free agent signings, but potential trades without the other team having to take Salary back. If Nash Walks, Maybe the Suns decide they don't need Gortat's contract?

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Stan reply to ojr107 on May 29 at 13:04
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7 million per season isn't bad for a starting center. He's only 28 and has 2 years left on his deal.

Yeah, if they'd move him, I'd be interested.

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ojr107 reply to Stan on May 29 at 13:44
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Good point, maybe we have to back another bad contract to get him or give up a pick? I'd still do it, I think he's a great fit for us.

As for Turner, as i pretty much predicted before the season began Turner will show glimpses of greatness, but will suffer from serious inconsistency issues. I do believe that a lot of second year players suffer from the same problems so i wouldn't jump to conclusions about his ability. And the lockout magnified all those issues. If they can use him in a no-brainer trade they should do it, but otherwise he should stay.

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ojr107 reply to Xsago on May 29 at 12:42
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I'm likewise still holding out hope he improves his jumpshot. By all accounts he worked pretty hard on it this summer, but its probably more than a one year process. If he stays at it and becomes a decent catch and shoot player, it will help out his game quite a bit. That being said, I don't disagree that up until this point he has been dissapointing.

I'm of the opinion that Thad is another piece that should be aggressively shopped this offseason.

He disappears in the playoffs' half-court game.

Would MIN be interested in a Turner/Young for Williams/Johnson deal?

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Johnrosz on May 29 at 13:16
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Kevin Martin? Build around iggy and jrue? Thats not a recipe for anything but 2nd round exits year in and year out. Iggy's time has passed here Im afraid. They're not ever going to be good enough with Iggy as a core piece, by the time Jrue turns into his best case scenario self, iggy will be 30. Just time to move on, he went out on a high note.

As for ET, it's better to hold onto him and hope he takes a big step rather than move him for a vet. This team should do nothing that makes them older.

Two great defenders who can initiate offense, set others up, and score efficiently without demanding a high usage rate. I'm keeping them because those types of players can play with anyone, and elevate anyone's game. It's not necessarily building around them, it's just that they're the only pieces I think are worth keeping if you're building a contender.

You don't think the career arc of Jrue and Iguodala is incongruous to building a title team? Iguodala has been in the league a long time...

Nah, not really. Iguodala's 28, I'd say he's got at least four more years of being an elite defender. Even if his athleticism slips a little bit, he'll still be an elite defender. The only concern is whether he'll miss time with injury. The rest of his game isn't predicated on athleticism anymore. Catch-and-shoot and setting guys up.

Sounds like a good plan, if they can get Martin, but they are still woefully thin in the front court...I wonder if they really have enough bullets (while keeping Iguodala) to get a quality competitive front court...Lavoy is a nice motor guy off the bench but I think people need to expect that in a full season he isn't going to contribute the way he did against one team that is old :)

If Jrue can continue to initiate the way he shows flashes of, with that confidence, he'll start to draw doubles...

Other than the ones you mentioned, I would like to go after these players in free agency

1. George Hill (RFA)
2. Carlos Delfino (UFA)
3. Marco Belinelli (UFA)
4. Ian Mahinmi (UFA)
5. Ivan Johnson (UFA)

Hill is interesting, and he might be available if they go after Eric Gordon hard. The other guys are a dime a dozen, but better fits for this team than the current guys occupying those positions.

any reason why you didnt mention hibbert instead of mcgee

I can't imagine the Pacers not matching any and every offer he's given.

if they want eric gordon, i dont think they could re-sign hibbert

They can sign Gordon and then resign Hibbert. I think they can do that, right? They are 22 million under the cap, and they could unload Granger.

dont know their cap situation but im assuming Gordon gets near the max and hibbert at least 10 million per year

so i guess if they sign gordon then granger is tradeable

Here's a quick question

You can sign Roy Hibbert or Eric Gordon - you can only sign one

Do you think the pacers would choose gordon over one of the few quality big men in the league?

id choose hibbert

I would too. I really don't know why Hibbert isn't featured more by Indy on the offensive end.

I should've mentioned Hibbert, just think Indy won't let him go. Wonder if he gets a max offer.

How's the new CBA work regarding RFA's - do you know? I mean what's the monetary difference between the pacers max and the open market max - cause he'll get a max deal from someone (would you offer him one if the sixers waived brand?)

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Anonymous on May 29 at 14:08
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When healthy I think Brand did a lot. I remember at one point Brian you said you wouldn't amnesty Brand unless you can get Dwight. I think that what we do with him should depend on who we can get.

Unfortunately, the amnesty decision has to be made really early. I think it's the first 7 days of free agency. So you might have an idea where you're going to use the money, if you're going to use the money, but most likely, it's going to be use it or lose it w/out the certainty that you'll get anyone. If that's the case, I say use it.

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Anonymous reply to Brian on May 29 at 14:55
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yeah,makes sense, but what I'd like most of all is if we could somehow get him at a bargain price later. I think he stays a great complementary player contributing in many subtle ways.

Bottoming Out

All of these moves are short term fixes. We need to be stockpiling assets and caproom. It's the only way to land a superstar and that is what we need. Period.

1. Amnesty Brand, but instead of handing that over to Sammy D 2.0 (McGee), hold it and wait for a team that needs to dump salary.

2. Let Hawes walk and play Vucevic and Allen at the 5 next year

3. Let Lou walk, for sure. He's proven that he's a nice piece for a contender with other scoring options, but that is not what the Sixers need. Replace him with a cheaper, younger version. There are undersized, inefficient scorers that can't defend all over the place.

4. Start Thad at the 4 and draft a back-up 4-5 and play them

5. Hold onto Iggy--Brian hit the nail on the head. Perimeter defense is the only strength we have. let's build around that.

6. One more year with Turner--why dump Turner now for pennies on the dollar? Why? We are not going to win anything with Kevin Martin at the two. He is not the answer. Give Turner even more responsibility next year and let him pad those stats with inefficient lines. Bulk up his value. Remember this is all about stockpiling assets. Everyone thinks Turner is flawed, but has potential. Dumping him now is crazy, unless he is part of a blockbuster that lands you a big time young talent.

Clear cap space, play the young guys and get back in the lottery, this time with enough ping pong balls to either land a real stud or dangle a top 5 pick, along with other young assets to land a difference maker. Kris Humphries? Kevin Martin? JaVale Mcgee? 10 more years a mediocrity. I hope Aron and Harris learn from Stefanski's mistakes. He came out of the gate with the blockbuster Brand deal and it set us back 5 years. No need to make a huge splash unless the deal terms are favorable. Everyone is still young. Don't lock us up in more mediocrity. Please.

The deal for Kevin Martin I proposed above served two purposes: #1, clearing out 2 guys who don't fit, but tie up a bunch of cap space over the coming years (Thad and Turner) and getting a shooting guard who can actually shoot to play between Jrue and Iguodala. It's pretty much a can't lose deal, because Martin's $12M comes off the books after this coming season, so you've got about $14M more in cap room considering the escalating contracts for Thad and Turner.

I like the idea but you simply can't count on Martin to be healthy for a playoff run.

That's fine. You're rolling the dice for next season, but if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. The main goal here isn't to improve the team drastically for next year, it's to improve the team in the long term. Martin would free up all that cap space after next season, and if he does stay healthy next year, that's great.

I'd make every possible attempt to use that salary to bring in some front court help. After exhausting all those avenues, it's likely that the Kevin Martin train would have passed, but that's okay. Just because there's a gaping hole inside doesn't mean it will be fixed right away. Get Courtney Lee and he can be a part of the night shift or slide in at the 2 if Turner or Iguodala are traded.

Looking for positives this year, I think we found this team could be elite defensively. On the other hand, even if they signed Gordon they would be no better than average offensively. With that in mind, my plan would focus on making the defense truly elite. If possible, I would:

1) Play Turner at the Point.
2) Play Jrue at the two.
Neither of them fit the role perfectly, but together they have all the skills of a backcourt. They are big, they can defend, they can get to the basket, they can play fast and slow, etc...
3) Keep Iggy at the 3
4) Depending on the salary keep Lou as the 6 and Thad as the 7.
These guys can really drive an above average second unit. Though neither fits as a starter.

Amnesty Brand and let Hawes, Meeks, Battie leave.

Plan a) would be an elite defensive center that can score (Bynum, Howard).

Given the probability that would not work, Plan B would go for a center who can defend/ rebound, and a 4 that can shoot. So, Ryan Anderson as the 4 and someone in the mold of Camby/ Kenyon Martin/ Dalembert at the 5.

The new center/ shot blocker allows the perimeter defenders to get more aggressive and take chances. The 4 opens up lanes so that Turner/ Holiday/ Iggy can get to the basket.

Yeah, I think putting Turner at the point is probably the least productive thing this team could possibly do. When he's on the floor, the drive/kick ability of Jrue and Iguodala is essentially wasted because he'll be the guy they leave open. Jrue can play the two, and Turner can play the point, but Jrue's a better PG imo, and the team is better with him at the point.

Turner is so much like Hawes it's sickening. We've got a center whose only asset is passing, and a shooting guard whose only asset is rebounding.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on May 30 at 0:04
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"Turner is so much like Hawes it's sickening."

Music to my ears, and just as sickening and sad to my soul at the same time because of its' truth. Thanks for saying that as I also mentioned it to Buke on Sunday. I guess the near 80% Turner-apologists around are finally seeing the light, or, they've straight bowed down to the administrator's declaration. You spoke a negative truth about the chosen one and went reply-less. Kudos.

Yep, you really told me! In fact, your words were so profound that I had forgotten them minutes after reading them.

You know what's more sickening than Turner or Hawes could ever be? An obsessive loser who crows about imagined victories on an inconsequential blog.

So what does that say about someone who responds to said obsessive loser?

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buke reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 12:33
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Nothing very flattering I must admit

Ok then :)

Trolls go away when you stop feeding them

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bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 21:28
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Or people who are tired of dealing with them go away...

But they keep coming back

Just for a hoot, here is the latest SF1976 incantations...

Paraphrasing his posts at realgm, the Sixers hope is to:

1. Sign Deron Williams after utilizing the amnensty on Brand.

2. Keep Iggy.

3. Trade for Dwight Howard a package including some/all of Jrue/Turner/Thad/Vuce/Picks.

4. Fill in the holes.

Now he states that the team does not expect to pull it off... but that they would at least try.

He also says they envision potentially keeping Jrue and shifting him to SG next to Deron.
......

I have to say a core of:
Deron (28)
Jrue(21)
Iggy(28)
?
Dwight(26)
+ filler

...would be tremendously exciting forthe next 4 years... in a completely unrealistic fantasy type of way. Imagine the stream of ring seeking vets on their last legs whoo would rotate through that roster over the next 4 years. I can imagine the likes of KG, Ray Allen, Kobe, Camby and countless others sort of 2003 Lakers style (Karl Malone, Payton, Ho. Grant.)

Well, this is the first SF1976 made up rumor that I'd be in favor of. still think he's full of shit, though.

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tk76 reply to Brian on May 29 at 14:48
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No doubt, but if you are going to make stuff up you might as well go all out :) And it sort of works in that you could make it happen if Deron and Dwight forced the issue.

If those two were going to force the issue, you'd think they'd do it in Brooklyn. Though playing w/ Iguodala/Jrue is much better than playing w/ the garbage the Nets have.

I kind of wonder if those guys would want to play for Collins, though.

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tk76 reply to Brian on May 29 at 14:53
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SF1976 says Dr. J was hired as the "recruiter."

I can see that in that he has connections in Orlando. Dr. J., Will Smith and Collins gives this team a bit of cachet that it has lacked for a long time.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on May 29 at 14:55
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Although the team remains in Philly, and will never be in NY or LA. That said, Deron/Iggy/Howard would be the makings of a super-high prifile team. But I think they would need to hold onto Jrue to beat Miami. He would be that extra weapon and defender that gives them the edge.

If they accomplish only the first part of that, sign Deron, what's the ceiling of that team?

Deron
Jrue
Iguodala
Thad
Allen?

Front court is such a black hole, you'd have to do something about it. Maybe trade Thad, Turner and Voose for Al Jefferson, something like that. Ugh.

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tk76 reply to Brian on May 29 at 14:52
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Yeah, it does not work unless you also get a great big. Deron Williams is really not all that special if he does not have a legit P&R partner.

I like it mostly if you get a quality young big who will thrive with Deron... and then in 4 years Jrue will step up as Deron fades.

Deron/Jrue/Iggy would certainly give you aesthetically pleasing offense as compare to this past year. They all can drive, pass, defend and hit a spot up 3. I'm not sure their is enough ball to go around, but somehow I think they make it work. Deron has always controlled the ball, but I can imagine him equally happy getting to hit a dagger three off of excellent ball movement from Jrue and Iggy.

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Anonymous on May 29 at 15:03
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As for Turner, I remember all the talk that he was slow develop in college (until his 3rd year). I think he will keep improving and I'm still holding out hope he can become a great NBA player.

Yeah, some people are saying the same thing about Vucevic. To me, taking three years to develop in college isn't a badge of honor. In your third year of college, you have a tremendous experience advantage over pretty much everyone you're playing against except for the guys who really aren't that good to begin with. Nearly every elite athlete leaves after their first year, second year at the outside. So basically he excelled when he was playing against a bunch of raw kids or upper classmen who didn't have pro potential. There's no parallel in the NBA, where everyone is an elite athlete and guys don't leave to play somewhere else if they're too good.

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Anonymous reply to Brian on May 29 at 15:36
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He seems to be improving. He hasn't got his outside shot, but near the end of the playoffs he seemed to be learning to avoid blocks.

I really dont know what will happen with Turner but still hopeful.

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Anonymous on May 29 at 15:13
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As for meeks I was surprised by his playoff performance and think he could stay at the minimum.

I like Lou and Thad, but they could probably start elsewhere. A change may help them.

Amnesty Brand

Sign Deron Williams

Trade Jrue to SAC or POR for their lottery pick

Draft Jared Sullinger

Trade Turner and Young to MEM for Rudy Gay

Draft best available at #15

Re-sign Lavoy Allen Sam Young and Jodie Meeks as your bench crew.

Williams
Iguodala
Gay
Sullinger
Vucevic

Sullinger strikes me as the big man version of Turner.

I don't mind trading anyone on the current roster to get a real difference maker. Anything they want to give up in an attempt to get Howard - even for just 1 year with no guarantee of a renewal - is okay with me.

However, Kevin Martin is an absolute sieve on defense. There is no way he's gonna start on a Doug Collins team. Trading young assets for a severely flawed veteran would make me a depressed fan.

I want to see Williams and Hawes allowed to walk, and Lavoy Allen re-signed.

I say try to make aggressive moves in the first couple of days, then make your decision on EB. Salary flexibility this year vs next year is of little importance if there is no one worthwhile to spend it on.

Is there anyone you think would be worth trading up for in this year's draft?

The only difference I see between 50 minutes/game with Jodie and Lou on the floor vs. 30 minutes/game with Martin on the floor is that Martin actually gives you efficient scoring while being a shitty defender. Meeks and Lou give you the shit defense w/out the offensive boost.

I don't mind trading anyone on the current roster to get a real difference maker. Anything they want to give up in an attempt to get Howard - even for just 1 year with no guarantee of a renewal - is okay with me.

However, Kevin Martin is an absolute sieve on defense. There is no way he's gonna start on a Doug Collins team. Trading young assets for a severely flawed veteran would make me a depressed fan.

I want to see Williams and Hawes allowed to walk, and Lavoy Allen re-signed.

I say try to make aggressive moves in the first couple of days, then make your decision on EB. Salary flexibility this year vs next year is of little importance if there is no one worthwhile to spend it on.

Is there anyone you think would be worth trading up for in this year's draft?

There is no way he's gonna start on a Doug Collins team.

He absolutely would start, and between two incredible defenders.

You know - like Jodie Meeks but 100X better

" Kevin Martin is an absolute sieve on defense"

is he any worse then what maeeks is on defense?

*meeks
and this meant to be a reply to TNT

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johnrosz on May 29 at 15:53
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Move up and take Perry Jones, from the stuff I read his potential is off the charts. He's probably not going to pan out, but I think when you're stuck in mediocrity like the Sixers, you've gotta try and hit home runs

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Stan reply to johnrosz on May 29 at 16:03
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I'd rather move up for Jon Henson

Did you read the chad ford thing this weekend?

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 16:18
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I did not, I take it they say he's lazy and has Lavoy Allen's motor?

No, they didn't, there is just a 'split opinion' on Jones...though most see him as a perimeter player not a low post player...

I love to read phrases like 'perimeter oriented big man who shies away from contact in the paint'

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The Six reply to johnrosz on May 29 at 16:36
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I will not pretend that I watch a lot of college ball outside of the tournament, but I was looking forward to watching that Baylor team for Jones and Q. Miller. I was disappointed that I didn't see more back-to-the-basket play from Jones. Maybe those who watched more of him can give a detailed and complete assessment of his play, so take my limited experience in watching him play with a grain of salt. I just think the Sixers really need that type of Low-post player who wants to bang and get some tough inside points and rebounds. Jones didn't strike me as that guy. Of course I could be wrong.

Quincy Miller didn't impress me at all.

Good thoughts, Brian. I have a couple more thoughts.

I agree with the Turner assessment. He could theoretically improve with tons of work on his jumper, but still how good is he even then? He just doesn't get good shots. Above all, his athleticism really hurts when he's not even close to a knock down shooter. I was wrong about him it seems. I'll admit that.

Thad is another player I would be open to moving. I love how hard he plays, but Thad is a player with major warts. His playoff performances have been underwhelming for two years now. Thad just hasn't been able to get to the tin at all off the dribble, and his jumper is very shaky. Well, that, and he gets bullied under the basket. Considering Thad's contract, I'd move him for something even of less value than him. A shooter perhaps.

I know Brian is going to echo these sentiments in a few days, but I think this team needs to be built around Jrue Holiday. I look at the way the San Antonio Spurs run offense, and feel that is the direction this team needs to go in. Jrue needs to improve in one area, the pick and roll, but the team needs to give him the pieces to be successful in this area. Watching him in the Boston series, you see how hard it is for him to run pick and roll. He has no space to move.

The way San Antonio plays is the way I'd be trying to build it. Obviously, the Sixers aren't going to get Tony Parker, but I feel Collins can squeeze the most out of worse defensive players. Doug has done a great job on that end. There needs to be a few pieces added to do this though. basically, the way the Spurs now, or the Suns with Nash, or the 08 Hornets with Chris Paul, scored their points was with a simple formula: 3 shooters around a pick and roll combo. I feel we have the point guard who can run this type of offense, and even if he's not as good as those other guys (Nash, Paul) offensively, I'm just looking to create a slightly above average offense. I trust Doug to take care of the other end.

The way to build this is with a finishing big at the 5. I can't stress how important it is to San Antonio that Tim Duncan simply rolls to the basket on more than half of his ball screens. Seriously, just the action of rolling helps so much with their spacing. Obviously the guy is one of the best players of all time, but he's no spry chicken any more. As long as the player is smart and mobile, this works. I wouldn't even need any semblance of a post game. Maybe you look at Fab Melo in the draft? I don't know, but you look at players who you think can roll to the rim, and when they are open, catch and finish.

Think about how clogged the lane is for Jrue with our current roster. The starting lineup has one guy spotting up behind the three point line in Iguodala, a guy who gets no respect spotting up 16 feet from the rim in Turner, Hawes or Brand also staying 12-16 away. That's why Hawes and Turner don't help the team. Hawes sets a horrible screen and as the center joins everyone on the perimeter INSIDE the three point line. You need someone at the rim at the five spot to create proper spacing. The dirty little secret about Hawes is that he really doesn't extend the defense all that much. Not enough to where he makes it easier on his teammates. If Jrue gets by his man, Hawes' guy can help and recover to Hawes with minimal penalty. He's a shitty stretch four playing center for this team. It's a testament to the defense how they even got to the seven games with Boston with Hawes.

Once you find the center, this team needs three other guys between that guy and Jrue who can spot up and hit threes. A legitimate stretch four is something I'd be targeting in the draft or free agency. I wonder if Channing Frye would be worth a gamble. He was fantastic a couple of seasons ago and sort of fell of a cliff this year. Iguodala could fit in with this team because he has proven he can make spot-up threes at a nice clip. That's primarily what he'd be asked to do in this system. If Martin were also available for Turner/Thad, we'd have something.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Iguodala (maybe with Thad?) for that impact big we are looking for as long as he could be replaced with a decent facsimile (Threes and Solid, if not suffocating D) at the 3. He just would fit into the system I'd try to build.

2 key words this summer for me: Jrue. Spacing.

Clippers pick up option on Del Negro - silly

Off Season

1. Amnesty Elton Brand
2. Let Lou and Hawes walk
3. Sign Eric Gordon for 4 years/ 58 million
4. Trade Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner for Josh Smith

That leaves you with 11 million to resign Lavoy Allen and sign your draft picks, a center, and a backup PG.

Before I give my thoughts, I'd like to say a very belated thanks to Brian for another great year of blogging. Because of work, I wasn't able to participate as much as I would have liked (either authoring or posting), but this blog was still my first destination for Sixer talk. (It was also great to meet you in person, Brian.)

Most of my comments on "where do they go" relate to Jrue. While this has been two seasons in a row that Thad, for example, has failed to impress in the playoffs, it's been two seasons in a row that Jrue has raised his game. Jrue was probably the fourth best Sixer in the regular season but was either first or second (with Iguodala) in the postseason. Most impressive to me was that he raised his assist-to-turnover ratio in the postseason to around 2.5, with increased ball-handling responsibilities.

The one aspect of Jrue's game that prevents me from going all-in on building around Jrue is that he lacks the court vision of the great point guards. For that reason, Iguodala -- who certainly needs help from his PG in the halfcourt -- may never get back to the 17-19 PPG scorer he was when Andre Miller was his PG. Likewise for other players (like Thad), Jrue as primary initiator may never maximize their scoring potential. BUT, Jrue made the right pass often enough this postseason that I believe he could grow into a steady, above-average PG at running the offense -- and his defense is certainly enough to justify that kind of PG on offense.

Considerations like the above make keeping Iguodala around as a "security blanket" of sorts a good idea, to settle the team down and run the offense when Jrue isn't doing it effectively. Hopefully, the latter will happen less and less over time, and Collins will be able trust Jrue more and more.

In the end, I agree with Brian (as often is the case): if the Sixers don't completely blow up the team, then Jrue and Iguodala are the players to build around. They are the only two players on the roster that are likely to be above average starters next year.

Yeah, it was great to meet you as well.

Had a really fun season, took my kids to a game down in Philly, took my son and father-in-law to a game at MSG, caught a game at MSG with Rich, met TK76 and Derek Bodner for a playoff win in Philly, saw the team in the final game in NJ with my brother and of course, Statman treated me to a game in Boston. Thanks to all, again.

Should have some off season prediction contests (sixer and non sixer related as well) to spur some conversation.

For instance - who gets traded first Gasol or Howard, or do we see the bynum/gasol howard swap?

Will OKC just admit they cant pay all four and trade ibaka before they have to let him go?

Will Darryl Morey ever complete a trade

Is David Kahn crazy or a crazy genius (more of an essay contest)

What was Rubio's injury, torn ACL?

yea

Yeah, but can you blame that on Kahn? Rubio was the ROY when healthy

Unrelated thought. They were saying 8-12 months for Rose, wondering what Rubio's timetable is.

Kahn made two great trades. Love for Mayo, and Mike Miller/Randy Foye for Washington's pick (which wound up being Rubio). The only unforgivable thing he's done imo is drafting Jonny Flynn. In no world was that ever going to work out. Ridnour, Webster, Barea were all bleh moves.

Didn't he draft/obtain pekovic also?

Where was he drafted?

Forgot him. Was he a second-round pick, or did they just sign him? Can't remember.

31st by the twolves in 2008 - the year the sixers drafted speights

I'm just saying

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Stan reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 23:47
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That makes me hate that draft even more.

Roy Hibbert
JaVale McGee
Serge Ibaka
Nikola Peković
DeAndre Jordan
Omer Asik

Also, the Love extension was stupid, but I guess it remains to be seen whether that'll wind up good or bad in the long run. I hope he's a Sixer in three years.

In a vacuum it's stupid - but you can't let a guy like that leave Minnesota, and if that's what it takes - that's unfrotunately what you have to pay him.

He'll never be a sixers - you know that :)

I mean it's stupid in that the didn't offer him the max. They wanted to give him four years so they could save their super-max for Rubio. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Love's counter was a three-year deal w/ a player option for the fourth, so he can get out of there a year earlier.

Ah, I remember, that's right, my mind had it backwards...should have looked it up to be sure...that was kind of silly...is there any advantage to a shorter contract because it allows you a bigger 'first year' if you re-sign?

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stan reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 20:24
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Does he get any credit for convincing some team to take Al Jefferson off his hands?

What did they take back in that deal? I can't remember.

from wikipedia

On July 13, 2010, Jefferson was traded to the Utah Jazz for two future first round picks and center Kosta Koufos.

My guess is that Turner is very unlikely to be traded and Thad isn't so likely to be traded either. No way Jrue will be traded. Iguodala is more likely to be traded than any of them for two reasons:

1) His contract is larger and his perceived value is greater so he could bring more in return.

2) As another poster said above, his time has passed here. A large portion of the fans would love to see him go and another portion wouldn't shed any tears if he were traded. Put those two blocks together and you probably easily have a majority of fans.

This has nothing to do with the analysis of basketball junkies anymore than the success of candidates in elections has to do with the views of political scientists. This has to do with mass perceptions. He's been here 8 years and the team has little to show for it. When a team is stuck, people want to see new faces.

Sadly, I suspect many of you are right: AI9 is probably gone.
I hope he gets the credit/respect/props/ contract he deserves elsewhere.
I never understood the general dissatisfaction fans have for him, but if you can't embrace the guy do what's right and let him go. I wish him nothing but the best.

With all the talk swirling of possible moves, why has coach Colins' name not been bandied about? Surely the prospect of another coach is worth 2 or three cents??

I just don't see it happening. Pretty sure they're behind Collins at this point.

Reports are that an extension is in the works...i'll believe it when i see it

I'm not sure why they'd extend him right now, unless it's like a position-agnostic extension. He's under contract to coach for next year, then a team option for the following year. Do they really need to lock him down beyond that, and do they really expect him to still be coaching at that point? I guess if they want him to move into the front office when he's done coaching they could lock him up for that.

Kind of odd, considering he lost the team in April :)

I think an extension is premature just based on his history - but maybe he really has found his 'home' and he'll end up in the front office the next time he 'loses' the team.

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The Six reply to jswigga on May 29 at 21:01
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"I hope he gets the contract he deserves elsewhere"

AI9 is a polarizing player indeed, and I would be OK with keeping him around next season unless a trade is out there that can really upgrade this team (i.e. good young scorer/big man). But I never heard anyone say that we was underpaid, or that he was playing under a contract with bad terms. Has he outplayed his current deal in your opinion?

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jswigga reply to The Six on May 31 at 1:55
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thank you for the perspective!!
I never heard that AI9 deserved more or was outplaying his contract. Excellent reply. Good points, well taken.
Cheers

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spencer for hire on May 29 at 19:16
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If Charlotte keeps the #1 pick and drafts Davis the sixers should immediately inquire about a Biyombo for Vucevic trade. Include our 2nd rounders if need be.

Amnesty Elton and sign Ilyasova, though they may have to outbid the russian in Brooklyn. Draft the best compliment to Jrue, Iggy and Turner at #15 [T.Ross?] and let Lou walk and replace him with a better off the ball shooter.[C.Lee?]

Ilyasova,T.Young
A.Iguadala, T.Ross
B.Biyombo, L.Allen
C.Lee, E.Turner
J.Holiday,[veteran]

Why would they trade Biyombo for Voose? I assume they'd want to fill one of their holes because Davis/Biyombo is redundant, to a degree, but why trade him for another project big, with less upside?

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spencer for hire reply to Brian on May 29 at 19:48
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I think redundancy would be part of it. Plus the fact they are rebuilding and if we add a pick or two they may go for it.

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spencer for hire on May 29 at 19:54
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Brian, if they amnesty Brand, do you expect them to go totally young? I expect a veteran/young mix of sorts and no steps back strategy at all.

No idea what they're going to do. I doubt we're going to see them blow the whole thing up, though. Think they want to improve the roster, which probably means established guys, at a minimum. Not necessarily veterans, but guys w/ a couple of years in the league and some kind of pedigree. Ideally, I think they're going to try (and probably fail) to get a star.

Of all of the possibilities, the only thing that worries me is going all in long term with players who are only "good." Something like Humphries to a 5 year deal or Lou to a deal at 8-10M/year. I want them to maintain some flexibility until they truly have some sort of elite long term core in place (and who knows when that will be.)

So I won't be overly disappointed if they fail to move closer to being a contender. But I will be disheartened if they reinforce mediocrity the way it turned out from having locked in Brand and Iggy for 5 years (although each seemed much better at the time then they ultimately turned out to be.)

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tk76 reply to tk76 on May 29 at 21:00
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That said, I'd be all for locking in Jrue to a long deal if it seems like a bargain.

If Lou gets a long term deal at 8-10 million a year, it's obvious that new owners are dumber than old owners

If the Spurs win the title this year (a distinct possibility), where does that fit with your Superstar Theory? Is Parker a superstar? Is Duncan still one? Or are these Spurs more like the 2003-04 Pistons?

I was just about to ask something similar - does anyone else the Spurs look an awful lot like the '05 White Sox these days? And will just roll through whoever the other conference puts up...and then age in dog years and try to chase this year again for the next several?

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Rich reply to Statman on May 29 at 23:36
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Nope. They wouldn't qualify.

Yes Parker, Ginobli and Duncan (still) are superstars

The fact that people are questioning the thought is fascinating. Tony Parker is better than Rajon Rondo and yet because he just plays his game and keeps his mouth shut people don't notice how good he is.

Parker Ginobli and Duncan are better than everyone, except maybe Iguodala, on the sixers.

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Rich reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 14:29
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Parker is better than Iguodala, and Duncan still is too. I wouldn't consider Iguodala a "superstar" in the sense of that argument, but truth be told I disagree with The Superstar Theory in general. It uses an arbitrary term to try and explain something which is difficult to explain.

18 points and 8 assists is excellent, but has Parker been considered a "Superstar" in the past? He's as 17 and 6 for his career. I really don't think he's considered a superstar in that argument in that he's still not a "1st Option." The 1st option for San Antonio is the open man. The 2nd option is the really open man. Parker was flipping fantastic last night, too.

Does anyone besides me like Jordan Hill? As a UFA, he seems like a nice upgrade to what the team has coming off the bench now. He provides a solid rebounding/defensive presence at a position where the Sixers just don't have that. Would would he cost more than $3.5/$4 mil per yr?

I promise I'm not trying to be a pain in the arse, but is he really that much better than Lavoy Allen?

He had some nice games for LA in the playoffs, but he's been a bit of a mess since he was drafted (is he really a UFA?)

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The Six reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 21:19
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No it's a legit question. I see him as a 5 and Lavoy as a 4.

Bench guys though are more fluid aren't they...and aside from a couple teams (Orlando, Indiana) it's not like there's a lot of 'centers' in the league to worry about...Hill gets a lot of play on the LA radio airwaves these days (cause there's really little to talk about since the lakers won't use the amnesty on kobe :) ) - they like him a lot but don't think he's a key piece or anything...like Lavoy - but with more seasons behind him - he made some noise in the playoffs/late in the season but hasn't been heard from most of his career

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Buke reply to The Six on May 29 at 22:22
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I was impressed with him too when I saw him in the playoffs. I suspect the answer to his future depends upon what LA does with Gasol (You've probably heard the Iggy + for Gasol rumor). There seems to be some friction between Kobe and Gasol. If the Lakers trade Gasol, I suspect they would very much want to hang on to Jordan Hill.

There's friction between Kobe and any one who has a bad game.

Pau Gasol won't work with Doug Collins - he worked in the Triangle - he doesn't work in Mike Browns system...he needs to be in a different kind of system - philly ain't it. He'd be a disappointment here

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Jesse reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 22:52
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He wasn't a disappointment in Memphis. Just because he had a bad year this year, I wouldn't discount every other year he has been productive and say that he can't succeed in systems other than the triangle offense.

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Buke reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 23:12
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He had 17.4 pts and 10.4 rebounds per game this year playing alongside Kobe and Bynum. If that's disappointing, then I guess all of our guys are complete losers since none of them achieved those numbers.

Hmm....sixers have made their first move of the off season - 'move' used lightly.

Tom Moore: #Sixers Rod Thorn via email: Team won't pick up third-year option on F Craig Brackins, allowing him to become a free agent. Twitter

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Buke reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 22:26
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To quote Claude Rains in Casablanca:

"I'm shocked! Shocked!"


I guess that's not too surprising for a first round pick who was traded by his drafting team almost immediately after his appearance in his first summer league. And to think that we gave up the likes of Willie and Jason for him!

Hey Derek

What do you think of Arnett Moultrie

What do you guys think about James Harden? guy will be an RFA after next season; I'm not entirely sure if OKC could match a max or near max offer for him due to KD/Perkins/Westbrook. Would you be willing to offer him a max contract next off-season if he continues playing well? I wouldn't mind a Jrue/Harden Duo to build around going forward.

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eddies' heady's on May 30 at 0:30
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Really good thoughts. Thanks for finally sharing them. Agree with pretty much everything stated. I was wavering on Jrue as he appeared to be in a decline/funk toward the end of the season, but that was more a frustration reaction to the losing streak and his play during it. He's a definite keeper. Andre's a keeper too, though I wouldn't shed a tear if he were shipped out just because I've been an advocate of freeing up his money, which I've felt since the day it was offered was an overpayment. No need to bid against only yourself, as Thad will forever fall under the Andre-overpaid category now because of his non-competing bid overpayment. And neither's play has shown to be worthy of the dough shelled out, imo. Thad should have been given Lou-money, or allowed to walk.

I'm just so fed up watching Hawes and Turner almost mimic each other, though in different ways, that I'd just probably be happy if they did nothing but saw that Hawes didn't return and shipped Turner's ass out of here. Obviously, my hope is that more will take place but those two moves would be a heck of a selfish consolation on this fan's end.

Something good must be getting ready to go down because we're starting to agree with each other more and more. That has to be a good sign, no? .... considering where we've been in disagreements over the years; Stefanski, Ty/Jrue, players responsible vs Eddie Jordan responsible, and weirdly enough we never disagreed on Turner I don't think. Thank goodness cause he had enough backers around here.

Really good thoughts shared though and I kind of feel the same way mainly because I have a good amount of faith in Collins' scheming, and systems he will adapt and run if he could ever exchange and secure different personnel.

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spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on May 30 at 7:17
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Had backers around here, are you using him in the past tense already.

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eddies' heady's reply to spencer for hire on May 30 at 10:03
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Just as it states. The way some are jumping off the ledge regarding him the past tense is referring to 'enough backers'. When Rich finally jumps, tense a'changes.

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johnrosz on May 30 at 0:39
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Unless there's some avenue to contention in the next 2 years or so, I don't see the point of retaining Iggy and pulling out the list of veteran guards to try and fit between Jrue and Iggy, none of which really take them to that next level. Need to be realistic here, the playoff run was awesome, but there aren't many things that can be done to take them to that next level right now.

I'm not really sure what level they'd be at if they added a guy like Martin at the two. My thought is that these guys already cover for shitty defenders, so how could they wind up being worse if they were covering for shitty defenders who could actually score efficiently. Ultimately, though, the idea to trade for Martin is more about creating more flexibility by getting rid of long-term money. If it works for a year, great, maybe you're onto something for the future. If it doesn't, no harm no foul. You use that money to get a better piece.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on May 30 at 1:08
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I'd rather just give Turner one more year to figure it out. It's pretty unlikely that he puts it together, but I don't think I'm ready to give him up for cap space. For me, I'd prefer to take a chance on him figuring his shit out than get a known veteran commodity in return.

And as far as Iggy+Jrue, I just don't think I'm sold on the idea of two major pieces being 7 or 8 years apart in age. If Iggy were 24-25 I'd agree with you. He worries me more and more each day though with the leg issues, and with the Olympics sure to take a toll on his body, I'd rather just sell high on him right now and try to fit as many young pieces as I can with Jrue.

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Turner Apologist on May 30 at 6:13
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For all here that want to keep Iguodala...you should be Evan Turner's number one fan.

Turner's jump shot at times is ugly and inconsistent...and in Iggy's 9th year so is his.

Turner does sometimes have turnovers...I believe I saw Iggy in his 9th year throw two alley oops in Game 7 to Lou Williams for absolutely no reason that swung momentum.

In Iggy's second year he was not that impressive at all and showed absolutely no flashes like Turner does now.

Turner's strengths are never utilized consistently which leads to him being inconsistent. He should have been posting up his defenders several times per game. Either he gets a shot over them or can make a nice pass.

You say Iggy is an elite defender...but he didn't even make the second defensive team. Look at the Bulls, Spurs and Celtics. Do they have a guy who is as great a defender as Iggy? Not really but their defense is amazing which shows you don't need a $15 million Bruce Bowen who handles the ball, can't drive and can't dribble.

So if you are suddenly high on Iggy in his 9th year because he started to hit some three's while still missing tons of free throws and want to get rid of Turner in his second year and call him a bust while loving Iggy in his 9th year who still can't shoot and still makes stupid turnovers while making a crap load of money...I will just laugh at that.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Turner Apologist on May 30 at 6:58
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yeah funny on the olly oops. iggy also took 2 contested 19 footers with 18+ on the shot clock and zero passes over half court. bad decisions are the same as turnovers. the 30% free throw shooting didnt help either.

Ronnie Brewer, Kawhi Leonard, Avery Bradley

This Turner sickness fascinates me, especially when it's coupled with Iguodala hate. In Turner, you desperately cling to what you hope he will be while completely ignoring what he is and how terrible he's been. With Iguodala, you hate him because of what he will never be, while completely ignoring the excellent player he already is and always has been.

Also find it hilarious that most Turner lovers have no compunction making fun of Iguodala's shooting ability when Iguodala has never been as bad of a shooter as Turner.

Brian thanks for providing this site for Sixer fans to vent. This is one of a kind.

Some ideas to improve the Sixers going forward.

Definitely keep Jrue, Iggy, Turner & L. Allen. I agree with those who want to see Turner develop for one more year. To me, he has Chauncey Billups/Andre Miller type of potential. Not a star but a solid NBA player.

I want to see Hawes & Meeks gone. Maybe Lou and if a bigger player could be added for Thad, just do it. One possible trade could be to send Thad to OKC for Perkins & Collison(somehow make the salaries work). I know Perkins is overpaid but 18-24 minutes of his defending the paint is needed on this team.

Do what you have to do to draft a center in the late first or 2nd. There are a couple with defensive potential in this draft. Draft the best player available with their first pick.

I'd like to see one veteran who has been on a championship team come in(Garnett(replace Elton),Ray Allen(Meeks) or Kidd(Lou)(2 year deals?))? Perkins would also, satisfy that. To do any of that, I guess Elton would have to be amnestied.

Going along with Brian's thoughts on going after a guy like Kevin Martin because of his fit and expiring contract, why not use Evan and Thad to get Josh Smith? Same idea as with Kevin Martin - not a huge risk because you're not making a long-term commitment, but he's a big time upgrade at the 4 even with his occasional mental lapses. I can't possibly imagine the Hawks getting a better deal, especially when at this point, they just need bodies to fill out their roster because they have so much committed to guys like Johnson and Horford. If you amnesty Brand and get aggressive with Gordon in the FA market, you could have Jrue-Gordon-Iggy-Smith-? I guess you're still missing a Center, but maybe you can use Vuc and Lavoy in combo there or use MLE. That's a team to get excited about and still gives you some future flexibility.

However, the team that really intrigues me as far as a trade goes is the Wizards. With a huge expiring contract (Lewis) some promising big men (Booker, Seraphin) and other young guys like Vesely and Singleton plus a top-3 pick, I wonder if they'd have any interest in adding Igoudala to that team to give Wall another positive veteran presence if they miss out on Davis at #1. I'd love to add Drummond, MKG, or Robinson if we could secure their pick. Or if they do add Davis, are they more motivated to add a guy like Igoudala believing with Nene, Wall, and Davis, they are getting close to competing? Kind of wondering aloud here...

It probably doessn't matter a great deal what the 76ers do. This year's performance, for which all deserve credit, is about as far as a team can get in the NBA without being superior. In roughly 65 years of professional basketball, we've seen about 18 champions, 9 of which only won once 9making them historical anomalies), and two of those champions (Lakers and Celtics) possess more than half of all the championship titles. It's not a league of parity.

Given this particular roster, we are not headed in any kind of unusual direction (i.e. towards championships). We had chemistry and effort on our side this year, along with lucky breaks (all of the league is out of shape when the season opens; Rose AND Noah go down in the first playoff series; etc.). But there is absolutely NOTHING 'championship special' about ANYTHING on this roster or coaching staff. And, given the nature of the league, that's nothing to be particularly upset about. Just as we live in a classed society of limited upward mobility, those of us checking this blog in our free time are watching a deeply stratified league in which the same 3-5 teams win most of the championships.

Love my Sixers, but I find this season more disspiriting than most because there are no illusions for me about this roster--whereas in the last two years I suppose I hoped Holiday and Turner might prove to be something to build with. Turner's unimpressive. He's also annoying. Jrue, he's inconsistent as a player and lackluster as a traditional point guard. Truth is, we have excellence at no single spot in our starting five. Acquiring anything that approaches some kind of excellence probably means slicing off two or more significant pieces of the team that actually got to the conference semi-finals.

May as well be starting over.

On the upside, our uniforms are pretty decent, attendance is apparently up, new owners might try to be ambitious for awhile, and we've been told that league-wide changes-for-the-better will unfold over a series of years with this new CBA.

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thewhettingstone on May 30 at 9:55
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Thanks for the site Brian.

Some personnel changes would be most welcome. More size in the frontcourt is priority #1 as I see it. If we can get a big on the open market for a good deal, that would be great. They should also draft a center as well. I think they should start accumulating bigs. Have a surplus. And then use them!...which leads me to Collins.

I really don't have, as one poster said above, "...faith in Collins' scheming, and systems he will adapt and run if he could ever exchange and secure different personnel."

I think Collins, even if he was coaching the dream team, would still make absolutely mind-boggling rotational decisions. The guy just flat out makes it harder on himself than it needs to be. With that said, I think it would be stupid to change coaches now. One more year with Collins. If he shows progress in his decision making with different personnel, then keep him for another year. If he's still doing dumb things like starting Hawes, who can't guard Garnett, instead of Allen, who can guard Garnett, then find another coach.

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Exile on Kenny Payne Street on May 30 at 10:20
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perimeter defense is the team's strength, but is that really what you want to build your team around? wouldn't interior defense/presence be preferable? and if iggy or turner or whoever can be traded to acquire that, why would that not make sense?

I'd prefer to have both.

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Exile on Kenny Payne Street reply to Brian on May 30 at 10:52
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likewise. i just wouldnt take iggy or anyone off the block to maintain one strength at the expense of (arguably) more important ones.

You're talking about a limited pool of players who can take your extreme weakness and turn it into a strength. Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol are probably the two that come to mind, and Gasol still boggles my mind.

Zach Randolph boggles my mind as well. How a guy who is that unathletic and short for his position, can be so effective puzzles me.

EB got by on athleticism, toughness, and long arms. Zach Randolph has none of those qualities.

Well there's this thing called skills. Gasol and Randolph are skilled players. It's not everything about athleticism despite what the mainstream media might lead you to believe.

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buke reply to Xsago on May 30 at 12:56
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Very true. I'm continually reminded of Charles Barkley's quote describing Stromille Swift:

"That boy can run and jump like a deer, but I would never put a deer in a basketball game."

That was always my feeling on Larry Hughes. Sure he could run fast and jump high - but he couldn't really play basketball

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 15:53
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That pick was franchise altering. What if the Sixers had Iverson & Pierce? Or just Pierce?

I think Hughes had skills, he just didn't have desire.

What if the sixers had iverson and duncan?

Sometimes you make bad picks or the lottery curses you

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 17:28
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I'm not talkling about luck! Larry Brown should have picked Pierce - anybody could see that. He was projected in the top 3 by most people. He was a Kansas guy. What was he thinking? (That Hughes could be a great defensive point guard and let Iverson run free.)

Or Dirk Nowitzki

Yes, the hughes pick was a disaster :)

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Exile on Kenny Payne Street reply to Brian on May 30 at 11:13
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thats entirely possible, but unexpected trades occur all the time. i appreciate everything iggy brings to the table, not just his defense, but hes just not good enough to merit "must keep" status. great perimeter defense (best in league?) got them an 8th seed and what would have been a stern horsewhipping if chicago was healthy. im not in favor of trading iggy just to trade him, ftr. hes just not someone id build around.

Basketball is a team sport, and if you can build a good team with Iguodala you keep him...your statement seems to indicate that he's not good enough because the sixers got the 8th seed...what seed would they have had if he wasn't on the roster? What seed would they have had if they had a front court made up of nba quality players? If Evan Turner played like the second pick in the NBA draft?

Iguodala is the best player on the team, period, and if traded he should be traded for assets that put the sixers in position to build a competitive team in the future (and not for Pau Gasol, cause that team, minus Iguodala, still won't contend for a title)

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Exile on Kenny Payne Street reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 11:27
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"your statement seems to indicate that he's not good enough because the sixers got the 8th seed...what seed would they have had if he wasn't on the roster? What seed would they have had if they had a front court made up of nba quality players?"


actually i said that great perimeter defense, possibly the best in the league, was only good enough to get them the 8th seed. team sport, as you say. clearly theyd be worse without him. getting nba quality players in the frontcourt is precisely the reason for my comments. if iggy or jrue or anyone can be traded for an asset such as that, then were agreed, trade them. the gist of my point is id rather build from inside-out if it can be done.

Well, you're going to run up against the NBA maxim of 'never trading big for small' or whatever...no team is going to give you a quality big for a Point or a 2/3 (which ever you want to classify Iguodala as). You can get crappy bigs I'm sure.

There's some depth in big men (with upside) in this draft, this guy from Mississippi State seems intriguing, but I've only read reviews, need to hear what young Mr Bodner has to say about it as he's really the only draft voice I trust.

I've advocated an Iguodala trade for a while now, because it would be best for him and the sixers in the long run I think. Unfortunately, I expect the new owners to buy into the 'fools gold' that was this playoff run against an injured team and then a team on its last legs and start to believe they're one piece away...which if history is any indicator means a move for a big name, who is on his last legs, this off season

If you didn't have Iguodala, the team misses the playoffs, the management decides to tank in order to obtain a better draft position, and eventually after many years you get the opportunity to get a franchise player in the draft. You sacrifice fan interest, good basketball, and player development in the meantime

I disagree with a couple things in here, including the 'tanking' issue...the rest of the roster would have been the same and Collins would have coached them hard, and player development might have progressed even more for the players who matter (Iguodala is no longer developing, neither is Elton Brand, Spencer Hawes never will)...as for the franchise player, there's one in this draft, and even without Iguodala, the sixers wouldn't have been as bad as the bobcats

If you're telling me we can get one of those guys for Iguodala, then by all means, trade him.

The Grizz are an interesting team...it seems like they are at their best when either Rudy Gay or Zach Randolph are injured...which is weird.

Maybe not enough shots to go around? Those guys are both pretty much dead ends, the ball goes to them, they shoot.

Course they have TOny Allen - who as we all know is the bestest defender in the whole land - I know how you hate Rudy Gay - but Memphis is one of those teams that might be interesting to work with, either to trade or facilitate as 3rd party...one of those teams with talent that still needs a 'shake up' to take the next step.

PS - how about them thunder...

If the spurs win the title, does this count as a counterexample to the notion that you need a superstar to win the title? I know Duncan used to be a superstar, but he hasn't played like one all season(although he is playing very well).

The spurs have three super stars, they just aren't ego driven douchebags so they aren't given the credit to be super stars, they play great ball IN a system and are about team, not themselves

it seems that the concept of super star is defined purely on a points per game or rebounds per game issue, individual achievements.

Why aren't Duncan Ginobli and Parker superstars?

Duncan's stats haven't been that "superstar" worthy. He's also not the same player he was 5 years ago. I haven't watched much SAS games but apparently he's playing like he was 5 years ago. Ginobili is another interesting player because he doesn't put up "superstar" number and he comes off the bench.

I'm hoping that SAS wins the championship this year. They are least douchey team left in the playoffs.

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ojr107 reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 12:38
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Duncan used to be a superstar, but isn't the player he used to be due to age. exhibit a) He's shooting 30 % from the field in the WCF.

Parker/Ginobli both solid players, but would you really compare either of them to Lebron, Kobe, D. Howard, Durant?

The definition of what a 'superstar' is is different to me than it is to you (I don't consider Dwight Howard a super star because of his inability to do many things, not to mention his maturity and attitude, oh yeah, he's demanding a trade again, hey idiot if you didn't opt in you wouldn't have an issue)

Comparing the Spurs to the Pistons is an insult to the Spurs and their history - the pistons were a one hit wonder - this spurs roster has been near the top echelon for years...if you don't want to consider them superstars, that's fine, but Tim Duncan has more titles then everyone you mentioned except Kobe...and he probably WILL end his career with more titles than them...

If you look at ego driven get his point driven players, then yeah, they aren't superstars - but whatever

I think it's unfair to call Detroit a "one year wonder". They won a championship in 2004, had a 64 win season and made it to the NBA Finals the following year which lost in 7 games, had the best record in the East in 2006, and won 59 games in 2007.

They're not the New York Giants

That Pistons team will probably wind up in the same boat as this Celtics team.

You're right - the New York Giants have multiple super bowls whereas the pistons still only won one - and we were comparing the pistons to the spurs - the spurs have been elite for over a decade - the pistons were not.

The Giants won two super bowls in between 10 years of mediocrity. The Pistons were an elite team with the same core that won a championship. There is a difference.

Hmm....you do math funny

2007, 2011 - that's 4 years

The Giants were mediocre from 2002-2007. Had a mediocre season in 2007 and had a great post season. Then reverted into mediocrity from 2008-2011.

From 2002-2007, the Pistons were a top 3 team in their conference.

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Exile on Kenny Payne Street reply to Stan on May 30 at 13:33
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giants have won two superbowls in the last 5 years.

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ojr107 reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 13:15
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I've mentioned twice already that I consider that Duncan was a great player, just saying he's not that guy anymore. Players aren't static, they change over time.
I'm clearly not comparing the past Spurs titles teams to the Pistons team (Where Duncan was one of the best players in the league) but I am comparing this team to it. And that team was far from a one hit wonder, the year after they won the title they went as far as game 7 of the nba finals.

Calling Ginobili a superstar is quite the stretch, far from a guy who is great at anything in particular, more of a glue guy then a star. And he's another guy who isn't in his prime anymore, hasn't exactly it been great the last couple of seasons.

My point wasn't to diss the Spurs I think They have three legit all star level players, excellent role players, are well coached, and play well as a team. My point was to make the argument that you don't need to wait to get a great HOF type player and build around that guy(Again, I realize Duncan is a future HOF, just saying he's not that guy anymore).


We'll disagree on Howard, I think he's such a game changer on the defense end can get you 20 points a game shooting .58 from the field. Sure, he could be better if he was more skilled, but as he is he is a great player.

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Rich reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 18:11
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Meaningless cross-sport comparisons aside, the Pistons were far from a one-hit wonder. They were a team built to compete at a really high level for five years and they did that. They were title threats for four out of those five years (Even when they lost to a bad Cleveland team, they were conference finalists). Comparing pretty much anyone in basketball today to the Spurs is an insult. They had a very good run, fairly similar to one these Celtics will end up with.

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buke reply to ojr107 on May 30 at 12:52
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Watching Tony Parker I have to conclude that he deserves the "Superstar" label. Of course, he can't be compared to Lebron who has all of his athleticism and is 6'8" and strong as a bull. Ginobilli is aging but still very intense and very lethal. Tim Duncan has been a delight to watch in these playoffs. He won't make any highlight films but so many moves he makes on the court have an uncanny way of leading to good things.

I lack the words to fully express how impressed I've been with the Spurs "TEAM" and I hope someday to see a Sixers "TEAM" that approaches their level of play. I actually started chuckling while watching them last night. They always seem to be in the right place doing the right things.

The Spurs are a great team because they have great unselfish talent...you can't be a great team without great talent

The sixers have little 'great' talent

I think Parker, Manu and Duncan are all really good players. When I think superstar, though, I usually think of a guy who basically changes a franchise. Like pick the worst roster in the league and put LeBron on the team and they're in the playoffs. Probably the same for Wade, Dwight, CP3, Durant. I don't think any of those three guys are at that level. I do think they fit the Pistons mold right now. They didn't for all of their other titles, Duncan was unquestionably a superstar. At this point, they have three stars, a lot like Billups, Wallace and Hamilton on the Pistons championship team.

btw, Deron Williams fell off my list of superstars after the results in NJ.

When I think superstar, though, I usually think of a guy who basically changes a franchise

Then Rajon Rondo isn't a superstar either, though many think he is. And is Wade really a super star? Those franchises were changed by Shaq and Lebron, not Wade, one could argue?

Would Duncan Change the Sixers?

Wade carried the Heat post-Shaq, pre-LeBron.

Add Duncan to the current Sixers and he definitely changes them. Add him to the current Bobcats, and probably not. Add Duncan in his prime to the Bobcats, though, and they're a playoff team.

Where exactly did he carry them?

Lebron James carried a bunch of castoffs from his rookie year, making a finals appearance, with probably as little or less talent than Wade had 'post shaq pre lebron'. Wade hasn't won anything of significance without help from another guy, and he's injury prone (which matters to me though most people ignore it unless it's extreme like Oden)

Playoffs. i'm saying the baseline is that you don't miss the playoffs w/ a healthy superstar on your roster, regardless of who he has around him.

The sixers made the playoffs for many years with Andre Iguodala surrounded by questionable talent (ignore the eddie jordan years) - you can't just say 'playoffs' makes a guy a super star...there's more to it than that.

I think, like porn, you know it when you see it, and it's different things to different people. If I could have one player from the heat - it'd be Lebron in a heartbeat, and I know there are some people who would pick wade, and I think that's foolish

It's all subjective, that's just how I look at it. I think it keeps the number low, as it should be.

As said this above somewhere, but dominant two-way players, or transcendent on one side of the ball.

Hmm...now that I think about it, if you aren't at least 'above average' at the weaker end of the court - are you a super star? The Thunder supposedly have two superstars - but since neither of them defend really well, are they really? If you have two super stars like the Thunder shouldn't you at least be competetive against a team like the Spurs? The spurs have bitchslapped the Thunder in both games.

Well, I think there are guys whose offense is just so good that it doesn't matter. Nash, CP3, Shaq. Durant probably falls in that category, Westbrook is an above average defender at the point, imo.

You don't think Shaq was good defensively or you just think that he was so good offensively his defense didn't matter (and I quibble with Shaq in general because to me super star is a mental thing too and Shaqs free throw shooting, or lack thereof and lack of RESPECT for the importance of it took away from him, he was just a physical beast...dwight howard is the same way, just bigger and stronger, but talented?)

Shaq never gave a crap about defense, and especially later in his career he was terrible at it. I think any really big guy who can shoot free throws is an aberration. It's like shooting w/ a whiffle ball for these guys. They can work on it, obviously, but I don't really kill them for being poor free throw shooters, as long as they have a dominant TS%, which Shaq and Dwight always have.

There's one simple solution to the free throw issue - i't just not 'cool' (though russell westbrook seems to have weird ideas about cool - i mean his clothes are worse than garanimals)

Yeah, I've never seen the stats on whether the granny shot was actually more accurate.

Well since no one will actually try it you can't actually run the comparison :)

For those who want Deron Williams, rumors are that the only way he stays in Jersey is if they get Dwight Howard.

If the Nets win the lottery, it could get interesting.

I think the first 4 picks will be:

1. Washington- pairing "superstar" Wall w/ superstar Davis, making them OKC V2.0)

2. New Orleans- They would have given them the #1 pick, but David Stern doesn't want to make it look obvious)

3. New Jersey- Without a good team the Brooklyn franchise will fail.

4. Charlotte- No one cares about them, but they are the worst team in NBA history.

So you believe the lottery is fixed?

Did anyone else know that Tony DiLeo interviewed for the GM Job in Portland? I didn't

Prediction, though the bar is set low the Nets will have the best looking rep(teeth and all) at tonights lottery

http://www.nba.com/nets/irina_pavlova_bio.html


The 2012 NBA Draft Lottery will be held in New York on Wednesday, May 30, and will be televised on ESPN at 8:00 p.m. ET, before Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals.

The Charlotte Bobcats have the best chance to win the top pick. Kentucky’s Anthony Davis will be selected first, no matter to wins the lottery.

Here’s a breakdown of each team’s chances to win the first pick:

Team, Record, Chances,

Charlotte, 7-59, 25 percent

Washington, 20-46, 19.9

Cleveland, 21-45, 13.8

New Orleans, 21-45, 13.7

Sacramento, 22-44, 7.6

New Jersey*, 22-44, 7.5

Golden State#, 23-43, 3.6

Toronto, 23-43, 3.5

Detroit, 25-41, 1.7

New Orleans!, (from Minnesota, 26-40), 1.1

Portland, 28-38, 0.8

Milwaukee, 31-35, 0.7

Phoenix, 33-33, 0.6

Houston, 34-32 ,0.5

* This Nets’ pick goes to the Trail Blazers unless it’s in the top three.

# The Warriors’ pick goes to the Jazz unless it’s in the top seven

! The Hornets have two lottery picks, and thus a 14.8 percent chance to land the top pick.

Only the top three picks are determined by the lottery. The rest of the first round will be determined based on record. In other words, the lowest the Bobcats can pick is fourth.

The order for the remainder of the first-round picks is as follows:

15. Philadelphia

16. Houston (from New York)

17. Dallas

18. Minnesota (from Utah)

19. Orlando

20. Denver

21. Boston

22. Boston (from Clippers)

23. Atlanta

24. Cleveland (from Lakers)

25. Memphis

26. Indiana

27. Miami

28. Oklahoma City

29. Chicago

30. Golden State (from San Antonio)

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-05-24/nba-draft-lottery-2012-anthony-davis-thomas-robinson-harrison-barnes-bobcats#ixzz1wNFfoCxx

OT, but I was looking for some good Spurs coverage and went to the excellent site 48 Minutes of Hell. Little did I know, there was another site called The Gothic Ginobili, which besides having an awesome name, is freaking fantastic:

http://gothicginobili.com/

The Spurs have the most knowledgeable fan base IMO. I've seen at least 2-3 great Spurs blogs over the past few years.

What do you guys thik about Ersan Ilyasova? Can Thad be moved for a piece that fits better and can we spend Thad's money on Ilyasova? I like him. He's young, he can shoot, he boards. I read that he will cost about 8 million/year, around the same as Thad. I like a Ilyasova/Lavoy power forward tandem.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I'd much rather have him for the same money as Thad. Good rebounder, good three-point shooter and he can actually start.

To 'use Thad's money' on Illyasova (i think it's two l's?) means you don't trade him for anything but cap space. Using the amnesty on Brand creates enough for Illyasova without having to give up Thad for nothing...not sure they can't both exist on the same team though

I'd be looking to move Thad for other reasons, but it's not a necessity. You're right, amnesty Brand there's more than enough room to sign Ilyasova (one "l").

If Hawes and Lou are both gone as well, they'd have plenty of cap space left over. I think Thad's got some value around the league, that contract is movable and you should be able to get some kind of asset back in return (or he's a good piece to throw into a blockbuster trade, coupled w/ a trade exception).

(If there's one l there's a typo in the original post - that was my source of the spelling ;) )

I wonder what you could get packaging Iguodala and Thad - the salary combined is pretty large - but that's the kind of pckage that might lure a team to give up some assets/picks?

Dwight and Hedo, maybe.

You're just never going to let that dream go are you :)

Would it be worth it to get dwight you think and give up those two? Would dwight want to stay long term?

If you got Deron as well, he probably would :)

I have no idea what that guy wants, though. Even if he wanted to come to Philly, which he doesn't, I'm not sure he'd want to play for someone as controlling as Collins. Same goes for D. Williams.

I have no idea what that guy wants,

Hard to know when HE doesn't know - the Magic messed this up too - they should have just moved him

It's a tough situation to be in. Denver had some young pieces in place, and Melo wasn't even a superstar. Orlando has nothing but old dudes and Ryan Anderson, and really nothing but a fat payroll is/when Dwight leaves. And they just opened a new arena. They probably should've sat down with him quietly and said "You can pick your coach and GM, but you need to sign this four-year extension right now." Take it or leave it, and if he didn't take it, then trade him for the best package you can get.

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CSTH reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 14:55
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I have to assume you can package Thad and Turner or Thad and someone to get another player that "fits". I agree with Brian that atleast Ilyasova can start and would be a good match with Jrue and Iggy. I also like Lavoy being the backup, so when you have to deal with a load in the paint, you can throw Lavoy in there and swing Illyasova to the three. A sweet shooting PF that can rebound and is 25. Hmmm... I guess this is why you do amnesty Brand.

Also, if Illyasova is your 4, what kind of 5 do you need? McGee?

And for the love of God, draft some Turkish dudes in the 2nd round already.

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johnrosz on May 30 at 15:55
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When can we as Sixers fans begin our annual tradition of hoping the team trades up or makes draft day moves, only to stay put and draft the soft stiff that nobody wants. A quick glance at the mocks and I see Meyers Leonard as their "skilled" big man of the future...

I've paid zero attention to college hoops and even less to the draft this season.

At this point you need to watch high school basketball to get a good feel for draft.

Speaking of high school hoops, does Austin Rivers fall in the same category as Jrue, Thad and Avery Bradley? Top of the draft class out of high school, then slips because of a shaky one year in college? Draft express is saying he was ranked #2 in his high school class. That's a profile I like for a pick in the teens, w/out diving too deep into his measurements/performance/outlook.

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JW reply to Brian on May 30 at 17:20
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If you don't like Lou, you probably won't like him.

Agree. He is in the same mold as a Lou Williams/Monte Ellis/Kemba Walker.

Nobody on the spurs are superstars on this current team. Duncan was a superstar for most of his career. I would say there all-stars. There's way more allstars in the league than superstars. The NBA may have about 10-12 superstars in the league.

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Philly in NYC on May 30 at 18:13
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Here's what I would love for this offseason:
1. Clear cap space by letting Hawes & Meeks walk (gladly), using the amnesty on Brand (semi-grudgingly), and also letting Lou move on (grudgingly). Re-sign Lavoy Allen to a reasonable multi-year deal.
2. Sign Deron Williams to a max deal.
3-A. Try to trade Iggy & Jrue for Andrew Bynum. Then use our #15 pick on a SG who can get us buckets off the bench.
-or-
3-B. Trade Jrue for Portland's 2 lottery picks. Then package 2 of our 3 first rounders with Iggy for Dwight Howard....or use our 3 first rounders for the best players available and wait a year to try and add Dwight Howard as a free agent.

The big question mark is whether Deron Williams & Dwight Howard would come to Philly. If so, then Evan Turner, Thad Young, Lavoy Allen, and Nic Vucevic would be a good supporting cast and we'd still have an opportunity to add another quality piece (or more) in the draft and likely a good mid-level free agent. We could probably also add 1 or 2 vets at the tail-end of their career for league min deals who would be looking for a chance at a title.

It's a long shot, but that's what we chat about this time of year.

Thoughts?

3-A. Try to trade Iggy & Jrue for Andrew Bynum. Then use our #15 pick on a SG who can get us buckets off the bench.
-or-
3-B. Trade Jrue for Portland's 2 lottery picks. Then package 2 of our 3 first rounders with Iggy for Dwight Howard....or use our 3 first rounders for the best players available and wait a year to try and add Dwight Howard as a free agent.

Neither of these trades would ever happen

Dont agree. Like the idea of going after Bynum but if you trade Jrue who is our starting PG if you dont go after one with the #15 pick? Then why would you trade Jrue ( 21 with two years of pro experience) for two draft picks who might not contribute immediatly? Collins isn't the biggest fan of Rookies.

Let's see

Dear Lakers - give us the most talented (though still needing to mature) big man in the league for a guy closer to the end of his career to the beginning who doesn't help you get any closer to winning a title but severely weakens your front court.

Not to mention that the secondary Dwight Howard trade is ridiculous even more so.

Neither of those trades makes sense for the lakers or the blazers...

Dear Blazers - give up 2 lottery picks in one of the deepest drafts in a long time for a guy going into his fourth year - who was picked in the mid first round and has played like it for the majority of his career -

"Deep draft" might be one of the bigggest overstatements in the NBA.

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Jason reply to KellyDad on May 30 at 18:44
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How is this an overstatement? I think it's true this year.

It's an over statement because it's a valid argument against those two ridiculous trade ideas :)

"THINK" sais it all right there.

"If you put Evan Turner on a terrible team and let him handle the ball exclusively, his counting stats would be impressive. He'd probably average close to 20 points, maybe challenge for double-digit rebounds a year or two, and hand out a half-dozen assists per game as well."

Is this team really that far away from being terrible?

Yes. Look at the Charlotte Bobcats. The best player on that team would be the 5th or 6th best player on this team. I don't even know who the best player on that team is- Gerald Henderson, Kemba Walker, D.J. Augustin, or Bismack Biyombo?

Who is the clear cut best player o the Sixers?

Andre Iguodal

Regular season YES. Post season NO!

Whatever you say

Small Sample Size is Small Sample Size

Andre Iguodala is the best player on the sixers - clearly - but you won't admit it

Collins coaching style/substitutions was a total 180 from the regular season. He let Turner miss 17 shots and still left him in as astarter. That would have never happened in the regular season. He leaned more on Jrue and Turner than he ever had and Jrue came through.

Not really sure how that is attached to the fact that Iguodala is the best player on the sixers (and dealing with an injury conveniently ignored by bashers)

The sixers went 7-6 over 13 games and you can read into that who the best player is on the team? Cool

I prefer to look at the entirety of the board instead of the small portion of it

I can see how you drew your conclusion but maybe I'm just not a believer in how Collins coached during the regular season (the entirety of the board).

That's possible, but more likely is irrational hatred of a specific player fueling your inability to see that this isn't even a one season issue - Iguodala has been the best sixer on the roster for years

He has been yes. But I think Jrue had a higher ceiling than Iguodala that has been stalled by how Collins coached most of the regular season.

Can you say that you know exactly who Jrue, Turner, Allen and Vuce will be on opening night 2012-13? All we have to show for it is a .500 reacord, beating a hobbles Bulls team ang going 7 with a old/hobbled Celtics team. Looks like rose to some but question marks to me.

No, he was still the best in the post-season. There was a hiccup with his brief hobbling, but I can't imagine someone, if removed, affecting the 6ers run more than AI9.

I wonder if Atlanta would consider trading Josh Smith for Thaddeus Young. The Sixers can do it if they amnesty Brand, but I wonder if Atlanta would trade Smith's expiring contract for a guy who was absent in the playoffs and still has 35 million on his deal.

Thad plus sign-and-trade Lou. Both go to a familiar place in exchange for a guy who wants out.

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spencer for hire on May 30 at 18:58
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Our coach mentioned getting longer on the wing off the bench, I would like to get longer at backup p.f. and the guy [Lavoy] is already here. Two Thad deals I would do;

1] Trade Thad and our #1 for Milsap; Utah can draft a young p.g.

2] Amnesty Elton and trade Thad and 7 million in caproom for A.Jefferson.

I know a lot of people dislike Jefferson but he would give Jrue a lowpost threat and if this team can be top 3 defensively with Hawes and an aging Elton why not with Jefferson.

What makes Milsap that much better than Thaddeus Young

it's fascinating how Thad youngs value has dropped precipitously - so quickly - since the end of the regular season

id rather have milsap over thad but i still like thad

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Marcus reply to sixerfan1220 on May 30 at 19:38
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I think milsap is better than Thad as well.Only people I don't want traded is jrue & iguodala everybody else can be in the table. I think we should keep Elton and let the cap space come off the books. I think there's a chance he would resign with us on the cheap to come off the bench. If I'm not mistaking I bill Ingram from hoopshype said Sixers should let Elton come off the books there would be better free agents next year to address there needs than this yr.

Just because you create cap space doesn't mean yo have to use it...i know it's a foreign concept, but waiving brand gives you cap room just in case, doesn't mean you have to use it.

Bill Ingram works for hoopsworld

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Marcus reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 19:46
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Yea my fault I meant hoopsworld. Also I hear a lot names why doesnt nobody say anything about getting Kris Humphries he's a walking double every night. I also think he's a little underrated.

Kris Humphries got a double double on a crap team
He married a kardashian
He's shopping his own reality show
He only showed up when he was going into free agency
Hell i'd prefer ryan anderson (who i don't want) over humphries

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spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 19:48
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I think he is better at everything; outside shot, rebounding, defense and a legit score along with the fact he makes the same money.

So - if he's so much better than Thaddeus Young why would the Jazz give him up for a lesser player and the 15th pick in the draft when depending on the lottery tonight they could end up with a pick in the top 6?

Just wondering...trades have to work for both teams - why does this trade work for the jazz?

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spencer for hire on May 30 at 19:54
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It allows them to draft a p.g. assuming they don't get their pick back and allows Favors to start with Thad coming off the bench willingly where Milsap may not.

Not sure why you think Milsap may not accept coming off the bench willingly - he seemed to when he had to do it this year. This is a weak point guard draft

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spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 20:00
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I agree about the p.g.'s in this draft but am not enamored with Thad at his current price unless our organization sees something we don't see.

lol. New Orleans getting the #1 pick was bull shit.

Did they really? Yeah, the lottery isn't fixed at all.

Nets pick goes to Portland. I don't see how the Nets can put together any kind of viable package for Dwight w/out a high first round pick.

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Stan reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:35
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They could have given NOLA the #2 pick. The NBA lost a lot of credibility with this move.

The NBA only loses credibility with folks who think that the lottery is fixed...If the lottery was fixed, the nets would have gotten the #1 pick - a future super star in Brooklyn is more important than a superstar in the piss poor new orlenas market.

The lottery isn't fixed, it's poorly designed, but people need to stop talking about it being fixed, the 'worst team' hardly ever gets the #1 pick in this 14 team lottery...the odds are AGAINST the worst team getting the #1 pick in the 14 team lottery - I think it's happened less than 5 times total since 14 teams were in it

It's a broken system - it's stupid - but only tin foil hat weares think it's fixed

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Stan reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 21:09
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Come on. Do you really think that it's just a coincidence that the team the NBA is trying to sell in the bad market that they are handicapped to, just ended up with the #1 overall pick despite having a 13% chance of getting that pick? It's a HUGE coincidence to me.

Yes, but see I understand how to run an 8 deck blackjack shoe, a craps table, a roulette table and calculate all the odds of all the possible combinations...I know how probability works, I know that that nba draft lottery is broken (no one complained when the sixers jumped to #2 did they).

The lottery is always going to seem fixed if the worst team doesn't get it.

PS - The Hornets sale is already in process - it'll be finalized sooner rather than later - they found their buyer.

Also, Charlotte is a great basketball city with TONS more money than New Orleans - The NBA doesn't care about new orleans - not really - it's just good PR - if they really cared about where guys end up - big city teams would always win the lottery.

You think they really wanted the spurs to get Robinson AND Duncan?

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johnrosz on May 30 at 20:29
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Anyone interested in swapping Iggy for Portland's pick at #6? Who says no?

Does Portland have the cap space to just absorb Iguodala's contract?

i think they have a trade exception from the wallace deal

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johnrosz reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:36
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they're at around 37 Mil for next year but that's with Batum's situation unresolved

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Marty reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:36
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Forget Portland, shouldn't Thorn be on the phone RIGHT NOW with the Wizards? I'd love to get up to 3 and take Drummond, MKG, or even Robinson. My gut says Charlotte takes MKG, so that leaves Drummond or Robinson. Wouldn't Igoudala be a better move to add to Wall & Nene especially since they actually have a decent amount of big men on the roster? OR, can we get Lewis's massive expiring and say Seraphin or Booker in a deal if Washington does decide to keep the pick?

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johnrosz reply to Marty on May 30 at 20:41
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lot of interesting avenues appear to have opened up with the way the lotto just went down, but that means the Sixers have to be willing to do something bold, and Rod Thorn has to be roused from his nap

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Tom Moore on May 30 at 20:37
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Sixers story (with Dominic Cheek, Courtney Witte video interviews): Thorn expects to be back:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/sixers/thorn-assumes-he-ll-return-for-third-season/article_bc2596cc-57a4-5494-b59c-8bec79bb974e.html

Poor Nets fans are telling themselves that Gerald Wallace is better player than anyone drafted with the #6 pick.

What are they going to tell themselves when Wallace walks, which I fully expect him to do unless the Nets severely overpay him.

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Jason reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:43
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Wouldn't that be the reasonable thing to do for the nets? Really no point in holding on to him if Deron leaves.

Yep. So they gave up the #6 pick for 573 minutes of Gerald Wallace in a lost season.

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Stan reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:47
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Billy King will probably overpay him out of spite.

Alright, so the Nets lost all their ammunition to get Howard, I would expect. Let's toy with the idea the Sixers can get Deron and Dwight, since I'm bored.

Amnesty Brand, Hawes, Meeks and Lou all walk. Sign Williams for the max.

Then you trade Iguodala + Thad + Turner for Dwight and Hedo.

Leaves the Sixers with a probable starting lineup of

Deron
Jrue
Hedo (Ugh)
Allen
Dwight

That's a top three team in the East w/ no adjustments. Of course, I'd look for an upgrade at the three. I'd love to be able to figure out a way to get Dwight without including Iguodala or Jrue, but I don't see how that would happen. I don't really see how any of this would happen, honestly.

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Stan reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:54
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I really don't think you can get Dwight without Jrue. I know this is purely hypothetical but Orlando will probably hold onto Dwight until the trade deadline. I also think that it would be difficult to convince Deron to sign here without a legitimate big man. Finally the most difficult thing would be to wake up Rod Thorn or get him to do something during his retirement.

The magic have lost all their leverage in trading for Dwight - why would they keep him - and pay him longer than they have to if they can get some players out of it, they should try and move him before draft night

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Marty reply to Stan on May 30 at 21:13
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Turner and Thad for Josh Smith. Max Deron. Deron-Jrue-Iggy-Smith-?

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Marty reply to Stan on May 30 at 21:18
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Turner and Thad for Josh Smith. Max Deron. Deron-Jrue-Iggy-Smith-?

I'd rather keep Iguodala then Jrue especially if you have to end up with Hedo Turkoglu starting...

On another note, the NBA DRaft Lottery is ridiculously broken - yes I get that for some reason tanking in the NBA is bad whereas 'sucking for luck' is ok - but the draft is supposed the help the worst teams get better - the bobcats were terrible - the fact that they had a 75% chance of NOT getting the first pick is ridiculous

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Stuart reply to Brian on May 30 at 20:56
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We could leave Andre(who I'm assuming Dwight would prefer to play with)by trading Jrue, Turner, Thad (+ our first and/or Vuce) for Dwight.

That leaves us with Deron, (Jodie?), Andre, Lavoy, Dwight which I guess is slightly preferable to your scenario. Such a small chance of it happening, obviously.

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Philly in NYC reply to Brian on May 30 at 21:23
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I agree with the beginning part and signing Williams. I would then trade Jrue for Portland's #6 and #11 picks. With the #6, I would pick Andre Drummond. With the #11, hopefully we can get Damian Lillard as a backup PG, and with the #15 either Terrence Ross as a backup SG or Arnett Moultrie as another big. I would then give them a season to develop and then maybe go after Dwight Howard as a free agent once we know what we got. Maybe we hit it with one or two of the picks or ET really develops and we'll have something to really get excited about. We would be pretty young especially up front but I'd want to see what this squad could do.

For the upcoming season, we would have the following starting 5....

PG: Deron Williams
SG: Evan Turner
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Thad Young
C: Nic Vucevic

....and the following bench....
PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Terrence Ross (?)
SF: ??? (We'll need to sign someone. Thad could also play some minutes here.)
PF: Lavoy Allen, Arnett Moultrie (?)
C: Andre Drummond

Especially with Dwight Howard coming off the injury, I'd rather wait a year to decide whether to try to add him (we would probably need to move Iggy's salary or use him in a sign-and-trade for Dwight).

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me with a straight face that Jrue Holiday is worth two picks in the top 11 of the NBA draft

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Philly in NYC reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 21:30
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In a draft that is think at PG, I think a team like Portland that really needs a PG would definitely consider making a big move for a guy like Jrue.

I think you're vastly over valuing Jrue Holiday and how desperate teams can get.

Maybe the Blazers just make a run at Nash, or Lowry in free agency, or Jeremy Lin

There's some quality PG's in free agency - the blazers have cap room - and Jrue Holiday isn't worth 2 lottery picks - he just isn't...he hasn't shown enough in the entirety of his career (outside a few playoff games this year that people seem to be focused on) to be worth that much value. It's a bad deal for the blazers.

Chad Ford report today on this Lillard kid from Weber State was that he's moving up - could be first point taken - possibly even a top 10 pick

what do you think they have to give up for okafor?

Um - Very little?

Utah struck out on the Warriors pick. The Warriors got the 7th pick and that pick was top 7 protected. The Jazz have another chance in 2013 to get a lottery pick (I'm not sure what the protection is) but if they strike out again in 2013, they'll end up with 2-2nd rounders.

Golden State was 'furiously' trying to get that pick back before the lottery cause they were afraid to lose it...their new owner talks too much publicly saying the wrong things...not to mention the move to San Francisco in a couple years is going to make it an unfriendly place to play for the warriors for a while :)

Utah has no first round pick - still don't think they'd take a lesser player for the 15th pick to get a point guard :)

The ESPN mock still has the sixers taking Arnett Moultrie who I'm waiting for derek to say somethinga bout :)

"The Nets are in talks with Wallace's agent to extend his contract for three years at $30.4 million."

Have no fear Nets Fans! Billy King is here.

How the hell did he get another job?

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Stan reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 21:10