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The Collins Question

Here is Collins answer to your "question" of his offense (from philly.com article on Jrue by "the Bard, AKA Marcus Hayes:)

"Eventually, [Jrue] has to be our quarterback. He has to be the guy with the ball in his hands," Collins said. "We've got to be able to become more of a traditional team."


I think Collins has fgelt forced to play this stilted type of offense by the fact that they lacked a shooter, a big who can roll or score in the post and Jrue was not ready to be a traditional PG. But in the next few years Collins and Harris want to add the pieces that allow them to have a better offense.. in the traditional sense.

Rich reply to tk76 on May 31 at 8:22

I saw that, but it's definitely still a question if he follows through. I believe he called Jrue "A Top 5 PG" in the past and then made him play risk free ball.

spencer for hire on May 31 at 7:33

Rich, well said. A quote the other day by Collins caught my eye; to paraphrase "we want to become a more conventional team, and we need the ball in Jrue's hands to be successful."

Listening to Hubie Brown discuss how simple and effective the spurs offense and its moving parts are on E.S.P.N. radio yesterday had me thinking; bigs that set good screens and can hit the pick n pop [Lavoy,Vuce]; players that can attack off the screens and get in the lane to create openings [Jrue,Evan,Iggy] and the missing ingredient ,someone to hit the corner 3pt. shot.

As this team is constructed finding minutes and a position for that shooter is the issue to me. I believe our front office and coach still believe that this teams offense is better with a shooter next to Jrue and Evan off the bench.

Rich, you mentioned C.Frye yesterday and I believe you are on the right track. Getting shooting from our s.g. spot in the starting lineup and one of our bigs on the bench may be the solution and give Jrue the space to operate.

If that shooter can be gotten for our #1 pick they may pull the trigger. And a Thad for Frye or Ryan Anderson trade may work for the bench. A lowpost threat may be down on the priority list with Vuce showing signs of that part of his game last year.

In order to have the kind of offense the Spurs are employing you need the guys who are capable of attacking of the dribble to be able to shoot as well. Ginnobili is a very good shooter. Parker is not great, but is passable. And they have a lot of 3pt shooter/defender types. They also need bigs who can set good screens and just from a simple "eye test" the Sixers bigs set some of the worst screens in the league.

If you want to build the Sixers in the Spurs way (which i would definitely approve, but i don't think is the only way to build your team), the first things that you need to do are:

- Turner needs to go, and Jrue and Iguodala need to improve their shooting. Not just percentages, but faster release as well. Meeks and Lou can fill a role of the bench (much smaller than their current one).
- Every single guy in the front court needs to be changed. They needs big agile and smart players. They got none right now with all these attributes.

spencer for hire reply to Xsago on May 31 at 7:56

I agree with your points but feel that a] Vuce and Lavoy set the best screens of our bigs last year; b] it seems the corner shooter has time to set his feet and Iggy really got better at that last year.

I am not advocating us being as good as S.Antonio but spacing would improve with this type of gameplan.

spencer for hire reply to spencer for hire on May 31 at 7:49

A sign n trade of Lou for C.Frye may work from Pheonix's end. And moving up in the 2nd round to get J.Jenkins could give us a Redick type shooter as an upgrade on Meeks.

Collins has had his share of highs and lows in his 2 year (so far) tenure in Philly. Big picture, i think he has done a solid job so far. Of course it's easy to say he did a great job at the defensive end and a terrible job at the offensive end. The numbers back it up. His history with the Bulls, Pistons and Wizards though don't show much. He has mostly coached a middle of the pack team on both ends of the floor, but he does have the occasional great season on offense or defense.

Remembering back when he was hired though, his biggest strength was his presumed ability to adapt to the roster. And after 2 years, i actually think that is probably true. It seems to me like we are putting blame on Collins due to the roster he was given, to begin with. In my opinion, the style he has employed on both ends of the floor directly reflects the strengths and weaknesses of the roster.

The fact that he changed the lineup and roles a lot suggest that he was actually trying to change a few things instead of go up against the wall with his own philosophy, which is something most coaches do nowadays.

All in all, while Collins certainly has his flaws, he is still better than most coaches in the NBA. The only issue i might have with him is what him being on the team means about the general direction the front office would take. I have no problem with him as a coach though.

I think if he is given a roster with pieces that fit better next year, he will do much better.

Regarding finding a traditional offense, I wouldn't be surprised if we draft this guy in the 2nd round(Draft Express has us selecting him). He would bring maturity for a Rook, defense, off the ball movenment and shooting which is needed on this team. Maybe, a young Noc.


The Greek reply to sfw on Jun 1 at 21:03

It's funny that you mention this SFW, as I have been meaning to tweet his name to Adam Aaron for over 2 weeks now. I have been watching this kid for the past 3 years now, from the time that he dominated the Euro 19 and under tournament all the way through this season when he helped Olympiacos with the euro championships. He would be a perfect 2nd round pick, and unlike noc he is a plus defender.

sfw reply to The Greek on Jun 1 at 22:08

Greek, Tweet him. Based on his bio, I think he'd be a good fit.

Since the offseason is all about hypotheticals this is what i would like the team to do and is relatively realistic. This should be more of a plan B situation since D-Will/Howard is obviously plan A.

I am not going to go in specific trades and signings i will just list a few players that fit the kind of team i think the Sixers can become and are relatively possible to acquire for the right package. None of them is a superstar, or even a true star really.

wings: Batum, Matthews, Gallinari, Harden, Hayward, Afflalo, D. Wright

bigs: Kanter, Favors, Varejao, Gortat, Nene

This list means i think the true keeper is Jrue Holiday and while i love some of the other players, none of them is a true keeper.

Some combination of cap space, Iguodala, Turner, Thad and draft picks surely can get some of these players.

hypothetical lineup no.1.


hypothetical lineup no.2.


You can make a lot of combinations with these players and end up with a team that i can see become a contender. I didn't necessarily pick the best lineup i was just trying to show realistic possibilities.

I know this is not the superstar way, but this is a good plan B.

tk76 reply to Xsago on May 31 at 9:11

Similar odds to:

My plan A was to play in the NBA. My plan B was to go into my current profession.

Meaning plan A is sort of like Pipe Dream A... but interesting to think about.

The real question becomes can plan B help me succeed in my career as much as pipe dream A can?

I think it can, but it's more difficult to pull off.

Thanks for this Rich, real good read.

I don't want Collins to be the one making personnel decisions. Coaches are more self motivated and short term looking than others. It's the nature of the job and the profession. Doug Collins was really fond of Lou Williams, is he the guy you want deciding if Lou gets another long term deal from the sixers? If the coach decides they 'must' keep lou to have the scoring punch off the bench, because all he's worried about is his legacy, is that someone you want making the roster decisions.

If it's true that Collins is guiding the franchise, then I'm bound for another disappointing off season where continuity is the buzz word...oh joy

The only caveat here is if Collins is going to slide into the front office when he's done coaching, which I wouldn't rule out.

No matter who's making the decisions, it shouldn't take a long time this summer to figure out whether they're looking short term, long term or both.

That occurred to me but I dismissed it immediately as I didn't want to thinka bout it.

1) Too late
2) Don't expect continuity.

sooner reply to Derek Bodner on May 31 at 12:29

Are you saying we should expect Collins to help orchestrate at least a moderate personnel shake up?

Also do you have any new info about Thorn possibly retiring?

I've been told quite a bit. I don't have a whole lot that I'm allowed to talk about, though.

sooner reply to Derek Bodner on May 31 at 13:10

Are you able to give a time frame on when the change(s) might be made?

Changes aren't even definite, so no, not really.

Which big man do you prefer for the sixers to pick at 15?

I hope you're wrong on this one, pretty sure you probably aren't, but unless the whole 'moving to the front office' is in his future, putting the coach in control is a bad idea.

Especially a coach with such a limited long term track record

I would think that a coach who feels he has job security within the organization would be more inclined to make moves for long-term gains.

what is 'job security' - any coach can be fired at any time - a contract doesn't equal security - if the sixers stay healthy and go 20-62 next season - doug collins isn't secure

In most cases, yes. I was referring to articles written about ownership seeing Doug as valuable to the organizations yadda yadda. It's all speculation, but if they sign him to a contract extension and fire him after next season, they still have to pay him.
More so, if they're in talks about moving him up to the FO after his coaching term, there would also be reason to believe he might want to look for long-term moves.

I agree with you in the sense that it would be out of the ordinary, but surely isn't far-fetched.

If they are in talks to move him in to the front office - then they should just do it - those 'at some point' type deals always make me nervous, too much variability, too much can happen. If his future is in the front office, put him there...he's getting older, he's had health issues in the past...I don't think putting a guy with no front offic experience in the front office when he's closer to death than he is to his 30s is a good idea in general...

I don't want Doug Collins in the sixers front office I guess is what I'm trying to say.

What was the point of what's his name (levien?) in the owners group if he wasn't going to be involved, or has he been squeezed out, or did he do something stupid or what?

No matter how you look at it, the sixers have improved their winning % and have increased their attendance rates from near last to 17th in the league. Owners might be giving all or most of this credit to Doug, which may in turn translate into awarding him with tenure within the organization.

I'm not really sure what I think about all of that, but it seems like a possibility.

Aside from the eddie jordan aberration the sixers have hovered around 500 for the past seasons - regardless of coach...and collins history and age seem to be being ignored...everyone loved lavoy allen in the playoffs - where the heck was he most of the season - was that lavoy not showing up, or was that collins not playing him.

Collins has too many questions to me - too much inconsistency - combined with his age - and history - that I just don't want him making long term decisions for the franchise (hell I still don't want him to be the coach)

There are lots of positives and negatives about him, but I do think he got the most production he could possibly get out of this roster, albeit, at the expense of developing the younger players.

Put a gun to my head and I would say that I would prefer him making roster decisions over Larry Brown, but that isn't really saying a whole lot.

He didn't look like a bum, or a thug, or anything like that. He never does. He just didn't look professional enough for the moment.

This is from the Marcus Hayes article...I guess he hasn't been watching Oklahoma City Thunder post game press conferences where Durant and Westbrook look like they've been shopping in the garanimals section...I'm not one who feels what you wear defines who you are, it's how you do your job...Marcus Hayes would find most of the tech industry 'unprofessional' I guess...more evidence to me that he's a douche

Yeah, that guy is terrible. I did kind of find it funny that he was wearing a sponge bob hat, though. I find that more professional than a lot of the attire I've seen at these post game pressers.

Someone made a comment that the 'nerd chic' dressing (and yes, I still want my geek 'back' from the rest of the world) was a sort of 'counter response' to the way guys like Iverson used to dress and how the media used to characterize it as a 'thug' mentality.

Though the whole "I'm wearing glasses even though I don't need them" thing is just ridiculous

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 2 at 14:51

I find it funny how in the NBA press conference commercial, they show clips of about 3 or 4 different players wearing the same pair of hipster glasses.

The word hipsters only has one proper usage - as an adjective for the word douche, douchebag, or something similar...

Golden State has long since had interest in Philadelphia’s Andre Iguodala, who is exactly the playmaking athlete the Warriors need at small forward. Contra Costa Times

Iguodala rumors for a lot of teams are floating out there, not specifics, just interest, I don't want Doug Collins making that decision

I feel like Collins thinks very highly of Iguodala, he wouldn't be interested in moving on to just move on. He'd probably demand a significant haul in return.

Your stance on this is a little confusing. You're wary of Collins having too much input, as it is your opinion that coaches (in general) are too short term in their thinking, yet you're worried about him making a bad value deal for his best player. Wouldn't a coach focused on the short term have high demands for his best player?

Short term and long term thinking lead to different 'demands'.

In my first job after I quit grad school, I was in a very short term profit aspect of the stock market (IPOs) and my boss was very good at it - he di things smartly - booked his profits - things started going wrong when he invested in long / existing stocks and just maintained a portfolio - when things started to go bad he couldn't just book the profit...

I think it's possible that while Collins might have a 'high return' valuation on Iguodala, what he sees as a good return might apply only to the current immediate roster, whereas someone like me might be more interested in younger/long term assets...for instance, the iguodala/nene deal, i don't care much about the player, i care about the pick, whereas collins might be more interested in the player return.

I'm either vastly over explaining or not making a lick of sense - either way - i tried :)

I see Collins as having a longer view with this team then you give him credit for. I agree he would not aim for a high lottery pick this year, but I don't think he views this team in a Mr fix-it short term way like Larry Brown did.

Collins may not envision himself coaching them in 5 years, but I think he plans on staying with the franchise in some capacity for the long haul, since he wants to live with his family/grandkids. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Collins views himself as having a lifelong connection to the Sixers and I think he wants to be part of a rebuild the same as when he first came here as a player.

That does not mean he will make the right decisions with his front office control. But I don't think he will be nearly as focused on a 1-2 year window as you seem to s\believe. but I guess we will see.

Is it ironic that the celtics are whining about fouls not being called against them when Kevin Garnett probably should foul out of every game he plays?

Rich reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 11:43

Oh God I know. There was one really bad call last night against them, IMO. That was the Wade foul on Rondo, a big call that they have every right to bitch about. Spare me with the foul differential though. I have a lot of friends from Boston who just point to the number of fouls and say the game is fixed. It's like they don't watch the game at all. One team shoots jumpers pretty much every play and the other team attacks like crazy and is in the bonus every quarter. It ain't hard to figure out. Yoh shouldnt automatically get an even foul distribution. Plus, they act like a team with 17 championships is getting the shaft like a small market team. Give me a break.

If KG would be told he would have that Wade call in OT go against him (KG hacked him on the arm too, probably before the kick even) if he wouldn't get called for an illegal screen the entire game, he'd take that.

That was an excellent game though. Gotta give it to Rondo. Wow.

Stan reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 14:02

I love how Wade stared down KG after he made the difficult layup in OT.

The Six reply to Stan on May 31 at 17:24

I've grown to really dislike Wade over the last few seasons. Is it me or has he become a total punk? I didn't see him becoming this type of player before (not the great skill player aspect - he is truly a great player, but rather the gradually turning-into-a-punk aspect).

Charlie H reply to The Six on Jun 1 at 16:27

I feel the same. Used to like him, still think he's one of the most intelligent players in the league, but he seems to have turned into a prima donna and a bad sport. Remember the game-ending dunk last year in the playoffs? He's always preening. And I'm getting really tired of the we-don't-get-enough-respect routine.

Maybe he feels crowded by LeBron. He can't really play his game all the time with LeBron in there. He has to pick his spots. I think he could do a lot better in adapting to LeBron's game. LeBron is a guy who can play with anybody in my opinion. Wade might be a better one-on-one player, but I don't think he raises his teammates' games the way LeBron can.

Stan reply to The Six on Jun 1 at 17:03

I've felt the same way about Wade as well but I do take exception whenever a player gets at KG.

A couple of days ago, Tim Duncan had a huge dunk on Serge Ibaka. He didn't stand there and soak in the cheers, pump his chest or scream like a douchebag.

Because Tim Duncan is the epitome of class and selflessness

It's also the reason Tim Duncan isn't as popular

Say what you want - but the loud mouth celebraters and 'starers' are the guys the kids like, the guys they want to be.

More young kids want to be like Carmelo, or that punk KG than like Duncan.

Crazy trade suggestion based on the fact that washington could use some maturity on their team and some defensive effort to guide their youth

Iguodala for nene and #3 :)

sfw reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 11:08

I think we'd have to include the #15 but I would do it.

nenes contract is 2 years longer and he's older than Iguodala - wouldn't do it if the 15 needed to be included...that 15 is important this off season...

raro reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 11:23

Really? They give us the #3 pick and we have Iguodala's replacement in MKG plus a huge upgrade at the 5 spot.

Not that Washington would ever do that deal...

I'm still thinking about the Iguodala for P Gasol trade. Pau has only two years left on his contract (similar to KMart so not a big risk) and would play well with Thad at the 4 IMO. It would also leave us room to amnesty Brand and go after E. Gordon. Our starting lineup:

E Gordon
P Gasol

That's an ECF team no?

I find it fascinating that people pish posh something as 'never' and then make similar suggestions that won't ever happen.

Gasol for Iguodala won't happen

Eric Gordon is a restricted free agent - those guys don't often leave unless vastly over paid (and oh yeah, injuries)

Nene is older, only a huge upgrade at the 5 because the sixers SUCK at the 5, and has a worse deal than Iguodala.

Aside from being taller than Iguodala, Nene is less of a player and contract in every way, the Wizards get the better deal AND better salary issue (and they can still amnesty rashard lewis)

I think they'll probably just decline the option on Lewis. It's a $13M buyout or something like that.

Oh right, I forgot about that option - they should definitely use that.

Supposedly they want to move blatche this off season though :)

And since Blatche has totally alienated their fanbase, he'll likely be victim of the amnesty clause.

They have a fanbase?

raro reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 11:49

My point was that I would not hesitate to include our own first rounder in that deal with Washington. We upgrade the 5 spot and invest in the potential of a younger and cheaper version of Iguodala. And no, I'm not saying they're the same player, so don't jump on that. What kind of talent are we getting at the 15 spot that beats out two NBA starters?

I think we come out on top in that deal, which is why I expressed some doubts about its likelihood. Not sure why the Gasol for Iguodala trade is any less likely to happen?

Gasol can't run with Thad, Jrue, etc. He's a very poor fit even if he would help the half-court offense. I think GoSixers said it the other day, but the Lakers landing Iguodala for Gasol would be a tremendous coup for them and their championship prospects next year.

Rich reply to Cin on May 31 at 11:47

If Dre would continue to make catch and shoot threes, they'd be by far the 2nd best 2-3 combo in the league if the Lakers landed him.

raro reply to Cin on May 31 at 12:01

I think people are forgetting just how good of a player P Gasol is. But I could be wrong about him fitting in with Sixers...

I think people are forgetting just how 'not the man' Pau Gasol is. He's not a 'face of the franchise' guy - he's a second option guy...he excels at it. He's also super expensive, and I'd rather keep Iguodala than have Gasol...I don't want Nene on the team - I want the #3 pick (and the #15 pick)_ and Nene is the cost

I don't think the Wizards could afford to give up Nene if they wanted to trade for Iguodala. They are both in their prime and would be a welcome veteran tandem to have around Wall and the rest of the Wizard youth, but why add one veteran and subtract the other if the goal is to add maturity?

Sign-and-trade Lou + Thad for Josh Smith

Draft Dion Waiters as back-up point or Terrence Ross as size along the perimeter

Amnesty Brand and trade Evan Turner in a financially lopsided deal. Target someone like Andrea Bargnani, Andray Blatche, or Chris Kaman.

Ride the core of Jrue, Iguodala, and Smith.

I'll cry if any three of those big men make it on the team. Josh Smith next to Bargnani? Talk about night and day.

Rich, great analysis. I completely agree on your assessment of Collins' success on the defensive side. The one thing I'd add to the offensive side is the question of turnovers. Collins' safe style did have the effect of limiting turnovers, which in effect gave us more possessions and kept us in some games where our O was stagnant. Given our lack of offensive firepower, that seems like a solid strategy to me. I see that as Collins adapting to the roster he's given, as you said. It's not ideal, but it seems like the most likely way to get wins out of this team.

Those three big men you wanted to target make me want to put a head in an oven.

The Nets are not bound by the constraints of logic; if they were they wouldn't have traded a lottery pick for three months of Gerald Wallace. They have a new building opening and want to make a splash.

John Hollinger

Did someone really offer a Nene for Igoudala deal? Even if you buy the argument that Nene being a big gives him extra value he wasn't even as good as Iggs on the offensive side of the court last year. We don't even have to take into account Igoudala's stellar defense. He is much more valuable then the Nene of last season. I'm not trading Iggs unless I get valuable young pieces back or a youngish star quality player. I dont totally buy the Collins criticisms on offense either. He ran an offense that you run with a team of non-shooters with no iside scoring punch. To me Collins weakness as a coach are personality related. He knows the actual game of basketball better then 99.9% of coaches.

Rich reply to KH on May 31 at 13:45

In a vacuum, a team of non shooters should not be setting historically low records for free throw attempts, no? Wouldn't it be the exact opposite?

I agree with the point about personality, but my point is that the offense is indicative of what worries me with how he coaches going forward. Collins ran that offense, and the whole team, in a way which can only take a team so far. He did a nice job this year because this team was talented to only go so far. Going forward, will he trust the process more than living and dying over every single game? Does he have the personality to do that?

Actually it involved the #3 pick in the 2012 draft, taking on Nene is the cost of getting that pick...yes I proposed it, but it had nothing to do with the issues you elucidate after neglecting to notice the 3rd pick in the draft.

The sixers roster as currently constructed isn't 'a piece' away from anything significant and I feel it needs a radical shake up. Obtaining the #3 pick in this draft would help with that in my opinion and you don't move up that high without giving something up (unless of course you think jrue holiday is worth 2 lottery picks from the blazers which i think is even more insane)

ryano reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 13:22

Do you have a proposed target at number 3?

Nope, but I think the pick you get at 3 is hella better than the pick you get at 15.

Lots of good power forward candidates in this draft, Derek probably had a good target at 3.

The only lock I understand in this draft is Davis at #1 and most other stuff is in flux

ryano reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 13:38

Exactly...which worries me a bit. I'd be 100% on board for Thomas Robinson, but the only other big man in the top tier is Drummond and he looks like a guy who might never get it. I'd hate to trade Dre and end up with Kwame Brown.

It's funny, but there are people who would love it if they traded Iguodala for a guy like Drummond, and he didn't pan out. Because then they could keep getting lottery picks for years to come.

I think the 'lottery pick for years to come' crowd is smaller than you think - I'm not part of it.

Yeah, wasn't accusing you. but they're out there.

Tray reply to Brian on Jun 1 at 14:35

I could live with lottery picks for years to come, but I'd definitely like any prospects we trade for to pan out.

What about MKC? I know people like him a lot.

If you think about it, if the sixers do trade Iguodala they are only set at one position - Point GUard (and even that is debateable)

If you get #3 and keep 15 (I don't give up 15 - if the wiz want it - hang up the phone) you can get two positions?

ryano reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 13:53

That would be ideal. Thomas Robinson at 3 and a shooter/guard at 15 (Rivers? Jeremy Lamb?) or an Iggy replacement. If Robinson turns out to be the real deal- like Boozer + athleticism + defense- and #15 can be an efficient wing scoring boost, in a couple years the team could be in a nice spot.

ryano reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 13:54

That would be ideal. Thomas Robinson at 3 and a shooter/guard at 15 (Rivers? Jeremy Lamb?) or an Iggy replacement. If Robinson turns out to be the real deal- like Boozer + athleticism + defense- and #15 can be an efficient wing scoring boost, in a couple years the team could be in a nice spot.

And to me - it's why you make that move - and why you take on Nene for a couple extra years.

It's nothing against Iguodala - it's wanting to believe the team is building towards something...and to do that (to me) a step back might be necessary to get on the right path

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 14:09

MKG would be the Iguodala replacement if you nab him at 3. Hell of a player who I bet will be on a good team before long, but not a shooter, at least yet. Local kid too, which would be a nice story. You would be hoping there's a big out there at 15, which I don't know is the case. I don't know the middle of this draft very well with guys I've heard of and others I haven't.

Theoretically, and this wouldn't be possible, but a Jrue-MKG-Dre backcourt and then a big rotation of Thad-EB-Lavoy would threaten records for defensive efficiency. You could legitmately switch everything when Thad and Lavoy are out there.

Tom Moore on May 31 at 13:38

Ric Bucher has an article insider about possible Gasol Trades, he suggests Gasol for Iguodala & Hawes (S&T)...however in the same portion of the article he says that Evan Turner is showing signs of being a ' capable go-to perimeter threat'

Heh. I wonder if it's awkward when Hollinger walks by those guys in the cafeteria in Bristol.

Hollinger doesn't actually do a lot of tv time does he? I mean he's not chad ford living in hawaii but he lives in like atlanta or something, most of his stuff is web based, so he's not there :)

ESPN web offices are not in Bristol (I applied for a job with them not long ago - so I know they're not there :) )

They used to be on the left coast, I think. they have offices all over the place these days.

That's what happens when you get bought by the mouse :)

My friend works for them in the broadcasting department, and he's stationed up in some random place in CT.

So, do timeouts help stop that run?

Doug is a smart guy and true yank-ee. Coaches for the moment. If you're his flavor of the week, you're in good stead. If you f-up, see ya next month - maybe. Hated playin' for coaches like him. Will blow smoke in your tepee, then send you to the reservation if you're not careful. Words, wags and wins, baby! In Doug's kitchen, you're spaghetti against the wall - make sure ya stick.

Doesn't know what to do with big men. Trashed Speights; attic-ed Vucevic, Battie; baptized, sat, utilized Allen; featured Hawes.

Advice to players: Buy and wear Duke t-shirts to practices, even if you're from Walla Walla - subliminal messaging is your friend.

Has smartly forged an alliance with Harris. Get used to him forging your Sixers, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health... .

spencer for hire on Jun 1 at 12:21

Using draftexpress player rankings and storytellers for current rosters I just did a mock draft that has our sixers getting Terrence Jones [starting p.f.], K.Joseph [A.Iguadala protege] and Miles Plumlee [3rd center].

There goes that Duke connection with our 3rd pick.

Seems to be many flavors of these mock drafts around. Would you gamble on a trade for the big kid from UCONN if he fell to 5 or below? Or on any of the top players in this draft. Not sure what would be desired from the Sixers in return?

spencer for hire reply to sfw on Jun 1 at 12:48

Watching the video preview of Drummond on draft express [great job by Derek and co.] it seems Drummond is as much a one way player as Melo. Will our coach ever take a raw offensive big?

He would probably take Zellar instead.

spencer for hire reply to sfw on Jun 1 at 12:52

I believe any pick after #1 could be had but would you be willing to pay the price. Ex.[ E.Turner, Vuce and #15 for Ty. Thomas and #2] Would ya?

Not sure I'd want the pressure of another #2 pick. Would probbaly pick the wrong guy. WOuld prefer to fish a little deeper(5 down) and give up less.

Re Plumlee: Wouldn't be surprised in 3rd. But Sixers thin frontline could use all 3 brothers - Miles, Mason & Marshall (pity the financer of the family's food bill).

Philadelphia 'Blue Devil' buyer beware - Art Heyman, Dave Henderson, Alaa Abdelnaby, Roshown McLeod, Shavlik Randolph.

becuase im sure he will be linked to this team eventually

if the sixers trade iguodala to the warriors for a 1st round draft pick the sixers have to give them a 1st for this year or next because there's a decent chance Utah will have the warriors pick next year, so just remember that when you make up your fake trades

They could just have GSW make the pick for them, then trade for the player after the draft is over. That rule only looks forward. Not saying I'd do it, but there is a way around it.

Given how much Marc Jackson wants someone like Iguodala to make up for the poor defense between Curry/Thompson, I'm not surprised how much talk there has been between these two dealing. They have Bogut coming back next season and are probably looking to make a push for at least fringe relevancy like the Sixers did this season.

spencer for hire on Jun 1 at 14:40

Derek, looking at this draft is there a big difference between a top 5 pick and #15 pick? Best case at #2 may be Gilchrist and worse case at #15 may be T.Ross, in my opinion. Why give up a lot to get up there?

johnrosz on Jun 1 at 14:56

I can't believe how far Harrison Barnes has fallen, was a consensus #1 coming out of high school, what happened to this guy

If he goes in the top 5 then he did well for himself despite that ranking. He might not have revolutionized the NCAA, but he still showed he belongs in the NBA. Keep in mind if he declared for the draft last year he would be a top 5 pick with even more questions than he has now.

Stan reply to johnrosz on Jun 1 at 16:25

It happens a lot in sports. I think Thaddeus Young was a top 3 ranked prospect coming out of high school. It happens in the NFL as well. Bryce Brown, the Eagles 7th round draft pick was the top high school football prospect in the country.

Jrue was the number 2 prospect coming out of high school. He had a terrible freshman year and got drafted at #17. A player's performance in high school sometimes tells more about a player as an NBA prospect than his performance as a college player.

johnrosz reply to Xsago on Jun 1 at 19:33

If you told me two years ago that I could have Harrison Barnes at the 3 to go with Jrue and ET in the backcourt I'd have been all over it. Now I still think I could roll with it, it's taking a huge chance but I think at some point you just have to start over...maybe it works out, maybe not, but it's worth a try.

South Broad reply to johnrosz on Jun 2 at 10:28

Was high on Barnes at this time last year too. Local criticisms of him this year were that he couldn't easily get his own offense and quickly settled for outside shots, mostly 3's. Basically that he became one-dimensional and brought nothing to his team but shooting, not always so well though. Rumblings increased toward the end of the college season that he was a headcase and ego-driven majorly which put off a few of his teammates {youtube his high school announcement for some proof of this}. This kid was focused on his *brand* before he ever set foot on Chapel Hill's campus. Kendall Marshall's injury only served to show even more that Barnes was not the catalyst for that team as he was recruited to be. Big disappointment when factoring in the hype he was ushered in with. Still can't get a read on how he will translate to the next level.

The Sixers (DiLeo?) have actually drafted quite a few highly regarded prospects in high school who's stock fell come draft time. Jrue, Thad and Lou all fall in that category.

Having that in mind, the guys to watch at draft night might be: Henson, Barnes, Sullinger, Jones, Rivers... (MKG, Beal will go too high i guess).

All of these guys are targeted to be drafted between 5 and 20.

Stan reply to Xsago on Jun 1 at 19:57

Henson and Barnes are my favorite from that group.

I've soured on Ohio State guys. They have a tendency of developing disappointments- Greg Oden*, Evan Turner, Vernon Gholston, Tedd Ginn,........

I would take out Rivers, although D.C. will love his bloodlines. They want to keep an imposing perimeter and Rivers just doesn't have the size. On offense they need a prolific off the ball scorer.

Depending on what's in the front offices mind (sell out for a full-on youth movement or absorb veterans and maintain the status quo), I would expect them to target the strength of the draft relative to where they pick and that's wings and guards.

The highest I see them being able to trade up, that isn't just a fantasy with no real life connections, is probably at seven with Golden State. The top three so far, Davis, Robinson, and Kidd-Gilchrist, will certainly be gone. Before seven I think Beal, Barnes, and Drummond are taken as well.

I see Henson as a starter next to Vucevic, but where do you think Sullinger fits with this roster?

you see vucevic as a starter?

Token starter playing around twenty minutes.

The rumour mill has the Warriors coveting several players the Raptors will consider going after, including Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay and Danny Granger. Toronto Sun

Warriors 7, Raptors 8, both want Iguodala reportedly

Hey brian - still want steph curry?:)

I'd take him to play between Jrue and Iguodala. Not so much if you're giving up Iguodala to get him, though. That ankle scares me. I'd offer Turner and our first rounder for him, definitely. Though they'd laugh at us.

So Steph and the 7th - even if they would do it you wouldn't?

I wouldn't trade for him honestly - ankles are bad little issues to have

AJ reply to GoSixers on Jun 2 at 17:22

Iguodala to GSW for the 7th and Dorrell Wright?

Jesus - things are bad in charlotte

Immediately after the Lottery, Bobcats.com began offering upper bowl season ticket packages at two seasons for the price of one. The site announced: "Purchase seats for the 2012-13 season at regular price and get the 2013-14 season completely FREE !!!"

What the hell is going on in these game 3's? Both 'favorites' getting waxed...

Tom Moore on Jun 1 at 23:43
spencer for hire reply to Tom Moore on Jun 2 at 9:54

Tom, I sort of agree with this logic, but my question is what options besides the draft and trades are available? Do the sixers have the biannual and midlevel exemptions to use and do you think they would?

Has the new C.B.A. been released for public consumption?

Really good place to read quick analysis on players in the draft.


spencer for hire on Jun 2 at 9:46

Looking at the measurement history on draftxpress as far as possible targets for the sixers. A.Iguadala, T.Young and E.Turner all measured the same height, without shoes coming out of college.

K.Humphries measured the same as Elton, minus 5 inches in wingspan.

P.Milsap measured shorter than K.Korver, but has a 7.1 wingspan.

A guy I thought could eventually replace Iggy in 2 years, J.Crowder just recently measured 6'3 3/4" without shoes, similar to D.Wade.

Vuce actually measured over 6' 10" without shoes last year, so he's got that going for him.

spencer for hire reply to spencer for hire on Jun 2 at 9:48

Oh, E.Ilyasova measured shorter than Humphries yet is listed at 6' 10" by the N.B.A. .

I thought Crowder was a hustle/rebound guy that could shoot 3's. He's plays SF, so that really hurts him.

John Henson is listed at 6'11 and is said to have a 7'6 wingspan.

spencer for hire reply to Stan on Jun 2 at 12:17

He [Crowder] also is listed at 242 lbs. . It really has to tick front offices off when in the most important time of their lives guys like Crowder, Y.Gates and R.Sidney get so outta shape.

I thought Crowder could be Kw. Leonard #2 but he may have to set his sights on being a T.Allen type.

Or it makes the front office guys happy that they demonstrate the lack of commitment and mental focus to be in the NBA.

Guy who gains a lot of weight headed into draft/workouts isn't a guy focused on his future or success in the NBA.

Easy to eliminate them.

Chris Brousard suggests blockbuster trades this off season including everyones favorite 'straight up deal' with the Griz, Iguodala for Gay.

(it's an insider article)

I have a silly question that's been nagging at me. Let's assume for the moment that the mutual love affair between Collins and Brand is legitimate, and that Brand feels loyalty to Collins and the team. Why couldn't we amnesty him and then re-sign him for $1 M? We end up paying him the exact same amount (which we would have to do anyway), but we remove $17 M from our cap while keeping his veteran presence and leadership. Wouldn't that be the best of all outcomes?

I suppose the only downside is if Brand wants to extract a few million more from another team, but I'm not sure if that's what motivates him anymore. He's got plenty of money from this contract and he's also got side business ventures, so I don't know if getting one more contract is more important to him, or seeing through the building project under Collins.

Nick reply to Nick on Jun 2 at 14:45

I've read some reports that a team can't re-sign an amnestied player, but nothing concrete - the bigger problem may be that Brand would have to go through the bid system, and someone might bid more than $1 M (or whatever the min is for a player with his years) and then we'd be stuck paying the difference with him no longer on the team.

You can't re-sign a guy you amnesty for a while (at least a year, maybe more) is my understanding.

If Brand is serious about liking the sixers and collins and yada yada yada - he could just opt out and renegotiate a longer but much more cost conscious (and worth) contract.

Let Lou and Hawes go but Sign Brand for a few years at the MLE value for instance...

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 2 at 14:53

If he clears waivers, I think you can. Right?

This is from the AMnesty Faq for 2005 - I would think the same basic principles regarding the re-signing apply

Q: Can a team re-sign its own amnesty player at a later date?
A: No. Amnesty players are strictly prohibited from re-signing with the team that released them for the life of the terminated contract.


Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 2 at 15:09

That's interesting. I assumed that after a player cleared waivers he was fair game for his old team. I still don't think Brand would have cleared waivers. Some team like Boston or Indiana would pick him and only pay him 1-3 million.

I guess I'm the only person that seen Collins as slightly overrated.

07-08 team wins 40 games
08-09 team wins 41 games
09-10 team wins 27 games (EFJ)
10-11 team wins 41 games
11-12 team wins 35 games (4 games over .500)

He hasn't really developed Jrue or Turner at the rate we all hoped. If you take out the 09-10 season every other player has performed at the level most expected.

Vucevic has regressed in a major way and LaVoy Allen, a player who Collins didn't think deserved to suit up at the beginning of the season turns out to be his best big man in the playoffs. He has displayed horrible in game managment and seemed to lose the team for most of the second half of the season.

His style of coaching has left this team with the same amount of questions, if not more, going into next season.

You guess wrong, you aren't the only person who has questioned the impact or import of Collins

Collins did well to maximize Jrue's contributions at this stage of his development. Jrue's biggest weakness' in my opinion were his inconsistent, weak drives and his decision making dropping off as he got closer to the rim. When it counted most he drove confidently, used his length to get off shots, and was more willing to reset when denied penetration. Or pull-up which was probably good offense considering the teams half-court woes. This campaign was one that he will definitely be able to build on.

Evan's problems start and end at Evan. He has improving form, but little consistency and no touch. That's not a coaching fix, that's thousands of repetitions in an empty gym. Also, Collins isn't why he wasn't in shape. Now, I could criticize Collins for letting him settle for jumpers amd not harping aggression during the season, which could have lead to more makes inside during their playoff run, but there's too much work to be done to elsewhere to say that could have been the difference. By all accounts, Collins did his best to put Evan in spots that he could excel. Almost to a fault.

As for Vucevic, he didn't regress, he hit the rookie wall. He's a classic example of a bigger guy needing a few years to develop. Lavoy is much more phyically mature than Vuce and his qualification as best big man isn't impressive. Brand was hobbled and simply moved in quicksand. Hawes is a poorly manipulated marionette with dead knees and gimp wrists. Allen, as the only able body, wins by default. I like him, he's valuable, but let's not overstate his accolades.

Prospect development is one of his strengths and with a lack of a pre-season, minimal practices, and a condensed schedule, there was a cap on what could be done and with that there should have been a cap on expectations.

spencer for hire reply to Cin on Jun 2 at 17:41

Watching that show "the association" on N.B.A. tv about the nuggets showed me how coaches communicate messages to their teams while running a practice.

G.Karl telling Ty Lawson he needs somebody to step up while Gallanari was out and egging him on each time down the floor to step up, was something Collins talked about this year. He basically said during a game there isn't time to send messages like that.

Nick reply to Cin on Jun 3 at 9:39

Very good insights.

Doug Collins turned Eddie Jordan's team that didn't care into a team that "cares" but shoots like Larry Hughes. The former team edition was a certified loser, present one carries more pretense. Collins' schmoozing is outstanding though; it really takes the cake.

There are a lot of articles out there about a variety of teams looking to move their picks, the warriors, the blazers moving one, the raptors moving theirs.

Until you know for sure what folks are looking for you can't say 'the sixers should do it' - but the sixers have assets to be significant players this off season - starting with the draft...

Yup, that's what it comes down to. It's encouraging that continuity isn't on the table yet, but it takes two to tango, and hopefully the two aren't Hawes' agent with the Sixers FO and Collins sitting in a la Andy Reid.

Wasn't there a lot of talk around here last year about how they should have bought mroe pix going into the draft? Do we have any idea how that would work under this mysterious new CBA...can teams buy picks from each other in exchange for...cap space? Exceptions? Don't the Sixers still have some small amount of $$ free from the Speights-Sam Young deal...would that be enough to pick up another pick somewhere?

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 2 at 22:02

According to the trade machine the only way to get the #7 pick is to take back Biedrens in the deal. Evidently R.Jefferson isn't tradeable on draft night and they won't give up D.Lee and #7.

If they would give up #7 and #30 maybe the sixers would do it.

Until Sixers are truly willing to give up some of their "core" players like Iggy, Brand, Jrue, Turner, Thad - not just flirt with the idea - there won't be much change in team dynamics. Old story, gotta give to get/revamp. Sixers tend to be too sentimental/patient, become emotionally attached to good sports under the numbers. But it's a players' league, not a nice people's league. Talent. Loud, unflinching talent, please.

TwoSense reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 3 at 10:27

Very well said.

spencer for hire on Jun 3 at 8:30

Let me correct myself; R.Jefferson has a trade restriction but it is just back to the spurs ,so he is available.

He would be the type of acquisition, along with a pick, that I could see in a "no steps back" approach. He could bridge the gap till a young replacement for A.Iguadala is ready.

He shot 42% from 3 pt. land last year.

spencer for hire on Jun 3 at 8:34

The new C.B.A. is sure mysterious territory. I believe the draft pick acquired still has no value but other than that, who knows.

spencer for hire on Jun 3 at 9:28

According to J.Finger in his article today, Elton Brand finished 9th in the league in defensive win shares and 6th in defensive rating behind Garnett, Noah,Josh Smith, C.Boozer and Dw. Howard.

That is some good amo for the front office to use if they don't amnesty him. But how does Boozer make that list?

Two former sixers passed this week; O.Woolridge and now Leroy Ellis.

Brian and Derek, thoughts on the players that have worked out for the Sixers so far?

The Six on Jun 3 at 22:50

keeping with the theme of possible destinations for AI9 if the Sixers decide to deal him, the Warriors have been mentioned a number of times as a trade partner. Outside of the main players/picks which would be swapped, does anyone know much about the progression of Jeremy Tyler? Would he be worth considering as part of the return package? I know he hasn't played a ton of minutes.

So Celts/Heat are tied 2-2. Transitive property?

Tray reply to Brian on Jun 4 at 0:56

Miami will win of course, but they are Boshless.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jun 4 at 3:36

certainly makes it harder to dismiss what the Sixers accomplished in their playoff run. They were as close as they could get to making the conference finals- and without Bosh I believe the Sixers would have given the Heat some trouble much like the Celtics are. although the Celtics probably match up a bit better with the Heat... but the Sixers probably match up better against some of the elite teams put west (as compared to the Celtics.)

actually found myself rooting for the Heat during the game, if only to knock out those old assholes and because it was so freakin hilarious to see BOTH LBJ and Pierce complaining about the same referees!

Surprised there has not been more chatter during each of these remaining games though...is everyone just completely sick of this sport for now?

...and did nobody notice Adam Aron tweeting yesterday that the new mascot and blue uniforms will be ready for next season?

spencer for hire reply to das411 on Jun 4 at 8:12

My hate for both teams makes it tough to watch so I tend to check the game sporadictly. The western series is enjoyable though.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 4 at 9:53

I can't believe that Lebron James finally got a bad call against him. I dislike the idea of superteams but the Heat are so much more tolerable than the Celtics.

spencer for hire on Jun 4 at 8:08

If the sixers want the perfect compliment to Jrue and Evan he is in this draft. Check out T.Ross's video scouting report on draftxpress. He would be a perfect fit and may be there at #15.

very impressed with his mechanics shooting off screens, generally off the ball. It's so balanced and fluid too. I believe he could be a Rip Hamilton type.
Off the dribble though, his shot looks much more awkward. If he could be a very good defender and build some strength, he'll be a steal for sure.

Dollar Bill, This ones for you. The no. 15 picks back to the 50's and yes, John Q. Trapp was one of them in 1968.

Number 15

Year Player School/Country – Team

2011 Kawhi Leonard, San Diego State – Indiana Pacers
2010 Larry Sanders, Virginia Commonwealth – Milwaukee Bucks


2009 Austin Daye, Gonzaga – Detroit Pistons
2008 Robin Lopez, Stanford – Phoenix Suns
2007 Rodney Stuckey, Eastern Washington – Detroit Pistons
2006 Cedric Simmons, North Carolina State – New Orleans Hornets
2005 Antoine Wright, Texas A&M – New Jersey Nets
2004 Al Jefferson, Prentiss HS (MS) – Boston Celtics
2003 Reece Gaines, Louisville – Orlando Magic
2002 Bostjan Nachbar, Slovenia – Houston Rockets
2001 Steven Hunter, DePaul – Orlando Magic
2000 Jason Collier, Georgia Tech – Milwaukee Bucks (Draft rights traded to Houston Rockets)


1999 Frederic Weis, France – New York Knicks
1998 Matt Harpring, Georgia Tech – Orlando Magic
1997 Kelvin Cato, Iowa State – Dallas (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
1996 Steve Nash, Santa Clara – Phoenix Suns
1995 Brent Barry, Oregon State – Denver Nuggets (Draft rights traded to L.A. Clippers)
1994 Eric Piatkowski, Nebraska – Indiana Pacers
1993 Doug Edwards, Florida State – Atlanta Hawks
1992 Anthony Peeler, Missouri – L.A. Lakers
1991 Anthony Avent, Seton Hall – Atlanta Hawks (Draft rights traded to Milwaukee Bucks)
1990 Dave Jamerson, Ohio – Miami HEAT (Draft rights traded to Houston Rockets)


1989 Todd Lichti, Stanford – Denver Nuggets
1988 Gary Grant, Michigan – Seattle Supersonics (Draft rights traded to L.A. Clippers)
1987 Jose Ortiz, Oregon State – Utah Jazz
1986 Dell Curry, Virginia Tech – Utah Jazz
1985 Blair Rasmussen, Oregon – Denver Nuggets
1984 Terence Stansbury, Temple – Dallas Mavericks
1983 Howard Carter, Louisiana State – Denver Nuggets
1982 David Thirdkill, Bradley – Phoenix Suns
1981 Jeff Lamp, Virginia – Portland Trail Blazers
1980 Reggie Johnson, Tennessee –San Antonio Spurs


1979 Phil Hubbard, Michigan – Detroit Pistons
1978 Mike Mitchell, Auburn – Cleveland Cavaliers
1977 Brad Davis, Maryland – L.A. Lakers
1976 Chuckie Williams, Kansas State – Cleveland Cavaliers
1975 John Lambert, USC – Cleveland Cavaliers
1974 Al Eberhard, Missouri – Detroit Pistons
1973 Barry Parkhill, Virginia – Portland Trail Blazers
1972 Harold Fox, Jacksonville – Buffalo Braves (2nd round)
1971 Kennedy McIntosh, Eastern Michigan – Chicago Bulls
1970 John Hummer, Princeton – Buffalo Braves


1969 Rick Roberson, Cincinnati – L.A. Lakers

2nd round:
1968 John Trapp, UNLV – San Diego Rockets
1967 Byron Beck, Denver – Chicago Bulls
1966 Neil Johnson, Creighton University – Baltimore Bullets
1965 Flynn Robinson, University of Wyoming – Cincinnati Royals
1964 Bill Chmielewski, University of Dayton – Cincinnati Royals
1963 Hershell West, Grambling State University – Philadelphia 76ers
1962 Gene Wiley, Wichita State University – L.A. Lakers
1961 Ted Luckenbill, University of Houston – Philadelphia Warriors
1960 Pickles Kennedy, Temple University – Philadelphia Warriors


1959 None
1958 Hub Reed, Oklahoma City University – St. Louis Hawks
1957 Jim Morgan, University of Louisville – Syracuse Nationals
1956 None
1955 None
1954 Dick Farley, Indiana University – Syracuse Nationals
1953 None
1952 None
1951 Roland Minson, Brigham Young University – New York

Stan reply to sfw on Jun 4 at 12:33

yikes. Kawhi Leonard and Steve Nash are the only players I like. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone on that list prior to 1995.

sfw reply to Stan on Jun 4 at 12:49

Thankfully this is supposed to be a deep draft. Pretty pathetic picks at 15. So

Tray reply to Stan on Jun 4 at 16:32

You don't know Dell Curry? Or Peeler, or Piatkowski? They were all still in the league less than ten years ago, and all pretty good shooters (Curry was a great shooter, as well as Stephen Curry's father).

Charlie H reply to Stan on Jun 4 at 17:58

The late Mike Mitchell was a tremendous player, made 1 or 2 All-Star teams I think. He & Nash & Al Jefferson are the only really good ones, though I think Kawhi Leonard is gonna be really good. Dell Curry was ok.

Pickles Kennedy?

I remember Hub Reed had his very own chapter in "Basketball Stars of 1964."

I could never understand why though, and still don't understand it.

So it's good to see that the clippers are still the clippers ain't it?

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