DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Place Your Bets

WHat I think will happen?

Hawes is signed and he is the 'best available center' they could sign and they got a bargain

Lou stays

Meeks gone

Brand kept - he has leadership

Iguodala - traded for a 'veteran' lateral type move at best - maybe a real 2 guard who can score 20 ppg and let Evan Turner play small forward where they know he will excel now that the evil Iguodala is gone

Turner stays, and after Iguodala is traded the marketing of the team starts to revolve around Turner, and Jrue to a lesser extent.

The sixers stay at 15 and draft whomever is available from the mediocre names we've been reading, with focus on shooting more than rebounding

No trade on draft night, no serious run at Deron Williams, no free agent from another team signed for 40 mil (at least one from the sixers signed for that much though)

Danny Ferry will be hired sooner rather than later, I'll bet that it happens in the next week, and tony dileo leaves the next day to be the clippers GM

I believe most of this will happen, I want none of it to happen

Any enthusiasm I had for new ownership has gone in the last 2 weeks, it's ed snider all over again, but with PT Barnum as opposed to howard huges as the owners

Hawes, Lou and Brand all coming back. Ugh.

One thing I find funny just reading comments on different blogs is how the same people who constantly say Iguodala is overpaid are now saying he's definitely going to opt out of the final year of his contract. Not a lot of overpaid guys opt out.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 6:09

I was thinking the same damn thing.

I don't know that I'd be surprised if he opted out though, maybe less money per year but 3-4 years, that kind of longer term security might be worth it.

Or maybe he opts out just to get away from Collins

johnrosz on Jun 21 at 0:03

Lou walks, Meeks gets a WTF deal but still insignificant, Lavoy is back at a reasonable number. Hawes goes back to some hick state where he is revered for his ball friendliness and skill level.

They probably give Deron's agent a call, I wouldn't be shocked if DC and the newly hired Ferry even make a publicized visit to the Willaims household, but in the end he doesn't see a match here. They end up keeping Brand because of his invaluable leadership yada yada...

Iggy gets dealt the day of the draft...I think Portland is the ideal match in any Iggy trade, they've got the space to take Iggy without punishing the Sixers with a bad contract, I think a potential impact player will be available at the 6 spot. They love Drummond or perhaps Harrison Barnes if he is available.

We find out Turner is actually bipolar( I don't mean this as a joke, it's not funny, it's been rumored for a while). And this was in fact the reason for his up and down season and the Stan Hochman "story"

If he's bipolar, it's treatable, but on the off chance you've never met someone bipolar, off their meds, Turner might have issues, but I doubt he's bipolar. Bipolar folk go through terrible mood swings if they aren't medicated, some very extreme (grandfather was, never took medication, wasn't good as he got older)

The only reference to Turners mental health I recall is that one story, that inferred, with nothing supported, by a yellow journalist trying to get clicks on his web site.

Mental illness is eminatable treatable and people need to stop treating folk with them like pariahs. IF Turner has an issue, you deal with it and then you continue with your life, they aren't debilitating unless it's something like DID or Schizophrenia, and if Turner had those, he wouldn't have made it this far anyway...

I'm truly tired of a nation that thinks mental illness is like leporsy or something, and journalists who don't bother with facts in their stories anymore...journalism is dead, because there are so few actual journalists left

1. I see Lou staying, based solely on the Collins' relationship.

2. Hawes walks, we all breathe some relief.

3. Resign Meeks to short-term contract. One year wouldn't shock me.

4. Allen stays, pretty obvious

5. Andre stays

6. I have a feeling they'll do nothing with Brand. His contract will just end and they won't do anything.

7. Evan Stays

8. Firmly convinced the team will draft Terrence Ross if he's available.
- Every other draft question. They'll stay pat.

And Thorn gets replaced before the season begins.

spencer for hire on Jun 21 at 7:11

Lou signs in Pheonix for 8 mpy.

Spencer goes to Portland and Brian becomes a Blazer fan because of their physical frontcourt.

Iggy stays and ends up a lifelong sixer.

Sixers draft T.Jones and move up to the late 1st round to acquire Lou's replacement [D.Lamb] because they here rumors he won't be back.

E.Brand stays and reupps at a cheap price and he, Vuce and Lavoy are our centers for the next 3 years.

D.Ferry signs early next week and shops Thad after the draft for a veteran scorer [Milsap] by giving away next years unprotected #1 because Milsap adrees to reupp.

E.Turner becomes a 15 pt. scorer and along with the Milsap addition our offense becomes good enough that we get to one conference final under M.Curry after Collins moves to the front office.

You forgot to mention whether they'll add Kris Humphries. My prediction? MAX DEAL.

Greg reply to Greg on Jun 21 at 8:59

As to the other questions:

Lou walks.
Meeks signs (reasonable) one year deal.
Lavoy stays (slightly) overpaid.
Iguodala stays.
Brand stays.
Turner stays.
No draft day trades.
Sixers take best nonathletic big man or high volume, low efficiency scorer at #15.
No Deron.
No free agent (except maybe Hump).
No Ferry before the draft.

Essentially they stand pat, because that's what we have expected from this team.

Here’s what I’d like to see happen::
- Gone: Lou(I’ll believe it when I see it), Hawes & Iguodala. Lou signs with Phoenix. Hawes ends up in Portland. Andre sent to Toronto for the 8 pick, Davis & Calderon
- send Calderon plus future lottery protected #1 to Houston for K. Lowry & M. Morris
- Resign Allen, Meeks & keep Elton
- Draft Jeremy Lamb at 8. Draft Moe Harkless at 15, Move up if necessary in 2nd and draft Bernard James or Kyle O’Quinn

Roster for 2012
C/PF Vuc/Elton/Thad/Allen
SF/SG ET/ Meeks
PG; Jrue
C/PF Davis/James or O’Quinn
SF/SG M.Morris/Harkless/Lamb
PG K. Lowry

- Davis(one year to see if he can play)
- Lamb & Harkless(shooting with high upside)
- James/O’Quinn both have length and defend. Either will work here.
- Lowry(aggressive/solid starting caliber point guard)
- M. Morris(SF/PF another aggressive player with ½ court game)

I somehow fail to understand how all these moves eventually end up in a championship. Lowry is redundant with Jrue, Morris and Davis are rotation players but nothing more. Even if Lamb and Harkless pan out, the ceiling of that team is not higher than what the Sixers already did this season. I'd say if you are making changes they'd better move the team much closer to a championship, whether it's next year or in 5-6 years.

sfw reply to Xsago on Jun 21 at 10:08

This would be a start.
At this point the sixers don't have a legitimate shooter(Lamb) or a star(maybe Harkless can develop into that). Might just have a good enough core to recruit the big piece needed to take them over the top. I'd rather have Lowry(cheaper) than Lou. Still have Elton coming off the books after next year. At least Morris & Davis have some upside to them. We can agree to disagree.

Lots of depressed thoughts on the future of the team. Mine are a little brighter.

1. Lou Williams gets a long term contract in the 6-7 million per year range (i.e. overpaid but not a disastrous contract)
2. Hawes walks and signs elsewhere.
3. Meeks resigns for 1-2 million per year.
4. Lavoy Allen resigns at 3 million per year.
5. Iguodala is traded for an athletic big man.
6. Brand gets amnestied.
7. Turner stays and gets a more prominent role in the team (definitely a starter either at SG or SF).
8-10. Not sure what they will do with the draft. Everything is possible, but right now i would put my money at moving up, because after all, that's actually the easiest way to address the "athletic big" need. Or at least they will think they have addressed it. They won't know for a few years. They will give up #15 in the process.
11. They will make a run at Deron Williams but will eventually fail.
12. No, they won't sign anyone to 40m+, but i wouldn't be surprised if they overpaid a solid player at a position of need (big man or scorer/shooter) for one year. Similar to what the Nets did last year with Humphries.
13. Thorn will be replaced before next season, but unlikely before the draft.

I would like to add that i think they will try to make an uneven trade using the cap space after the Brand amnesty for an established star or a very solid starter level player. Also they might lose Young in the process of acquiring the athletic big or the shooter/scorer.

1. Lou stays, I think he wants to and he may give us a slight discount.
2. Hawes leaves. Drafting Voose and the emergence of Levoy makes this a fairly easy decision.
3. If they draft a shooter in the first round i say he's gone. If not, I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign a small deal with us. And, I don't really care either way.
4. Levoy signs. He shouldn't be too expensive and it is a good PR move and a solid player.
5. Stays.
6. Amnesty. I hope he opts out and signs something like a 3 year $20 mil, but I doubt he does that.
7. Stays.
8. Stay at 15, draft a big. It is a big need for us and it is a fairly deep draft for PF's.
9. No.
10. No, but if they do I think it is up to the SAC #5 or the GS #7.
11. Yes, unsuccessfully.
12. No.
13. They should, but they won't. Maybe before the season starts.

Wow, don't think I've ever seen Hollinger rip someone this bad. He's right, too.

Man, I've seen people try and argue how this is a good deal putting veterans around future great John Wall...how it makes them winners. Some folk think it makes them better than the sixers (though without an off season I'm not sure how one can decide that now)

The flaw with their logic is the guy they're building this shitty roster around pretty much sucks. That, and the pieces their assembling suck as well.

But John Wall scores a lot of points, and makes pretty passes, he was just surrounded by jerks, and they got rid of Javale Mcgee and Rashard Lewis, and now they'll get rid of blatche, and it'll all be ok cause they got Okafor and Ariza. He's also grossly superior to Jrue Holiday already, because well, look at his points :)

PS - if this trade changes the wizards draft strategy one iota, it's asinine...2 years isn't a reason to totally decide to draft someone different.

Actually, I think they're in win now mode. Maybe they'd like Thad Young for the #3 pick. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7swvmt9

I'd probably do that, then cut Blatche, or just give him the Brackins treatment until he goes insane.

Yeah, read that yesterday. I was surprised how direct Hollinger was but he is right. I am still trying to understand what the wizards were thinking. There must be another trade after this, because this is practically ensuring that you'll be a 30-35 win team in the next 2 years, without much chance to add significant talent.

Hollinger gets credit for say it.

I get lambasted (on another site) for saying it :)

I am fascinated by the people trying to defend this trade for the Wizards, it's incredible

I agree with you Brian, Hollinger is right. The bright side is the Nawlins side of this deal. It shows just what can be accomplished by an aggressive front office willing to be aggressive and spend money [for the buyout] - and Grunfeld isn't the only clueless GM in this league.

BTW, here's the interview I did with Spike Eskin on WIP about the draft Tuesday:

Now - what I wish would happen

1. Lou, Spencer, Meeks are all on other teams next year
2. Sixers do re-sign Lavoy but don't go all nuts on it, he has some solid games in one playoff series, theres' no guarantee he maintains that in a season, but 3 years, a couple mil a year isn't horrible
3. Iguodala traded, on draft night or pre-arranged post draft deal - not laterally but in a way that next season the sixers take a step back but obtain quality pieces to use going forward to build a team that can win a title.
4. If Chad Ford is ever right in his entire career, trade Evan Turner for the #10 pick in the draft, right now, today, before New Orleans says no
5. At 15 the sixers (even after trading Iguodala still have the pick) draft the best player available, due to the fact that aside from Jrue Holiday, Thad and Lavoy off the bench, they don't have much going forward. Additionally, the sixers spend a couple hundred thousand dollars to use some second round picks to stash some guys in europe who are raw but could be something given european seasoning.
6. The sixers owners come to their senses, hire a real GM and tell Doug, coach the team and shut up or there is the door...let him walk out the door, go hire Brian Shaw
7. No run at Deron, doesn't fit the plan, neither does anyone else
8. AMnesty Brand, don't have to use cap space, but nice to have

Anger folks who think the sixers were close to a title this year, I mean they took the celtics to 7 games, the celtics took the heat far, it's the transitive property.

Course, none of this will happen,

Lou Williams re-signs with the Sixers, or plays in another uniform next season?
Stays with the Sixers, 4 years 30 million

Spencer Hawes re-signs or walks?

Jodie Meeks re-signs or walks?

Lavoy Allen re-signs or walks?
Stays 3 years 8 mill

Andre Iguodala stays or gets traded?

Elton Brand stays on his current contract, opts out of his final year but re-signs a longer deal for less yearly money, or the Sixers use their amnesty provision on him?
Sixers let his contract expire for this year

Evan Turner stays or gets traded?

The Sixers stay at #15 and draft either (a) a shooter, (b) a big, (c) other?
big, Tyler Zeller

Do the Sixers trade the #15 pick to either move down or out of the first round?
move up for Zeller

Do the Sixers make a trade to move up into the lottery, if so, how high?

Do the Sixers make a serious run at Deron Williams in free agency?
ROFL, no.

Do the Sixers sign any free agent (from another team) for a contract worth more than $40M?

Is Rod Thorn's replacement hired prior to the draft? Before the season begins?

Hollinger on Sullinger

Oh, he'll get numbers, I just wonder if he'll give them up just as easily. The comparisons I might use with him are guys like Carlos Boozer or Gary Trent.

He's not a horrible 1-1 defender, particularly in the post. He's going to get eaten alive on pick and rolls, though.

Ok - now see - you've changed my mind again - the sixers are bad at P&R defense, please don't add another guy who stinks at it.

Is it impossible to learn how to defend the P&R or are the sixers coaching staff year after year after year just horrible at teaching it?

I actually think the coaching staff is pretty good at it, they're just faced with Sophie's Choice. When Thad's the big in it, they do a superb job, when the rest of the sloths are in it, they leave the guard on an island and tell the slow pokes to just sag all the way to the hoop.

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 12:59

Yup. Thad was freaking excellent at it this year. Never knew why the Celtics ran screen roll with Rondo at him. He blew it up every single time. Maybe it was just by mistake once or twice a game.

Yeah, no, he stinks at it. It's a very legitimate concern.

But is it learnable? What's Sullingers IQ (b-ball) like?

I think in a lot of cases it's a footspeed thing. The guys who are really good at it are quick. You have to be smart and willing, as well, but being smart, willing and slow isn't really a recipe for success.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 13:13

It's not just a matter of basketball IQ, more of physical limitations with his feet I'd guess. Elton Brand has a great basketball IQ, but he can only be so good at pick and roll defense because he doesn't have the footspeed to recover. So he has to sort of play it halfway, which sucks.

Sullinger's lane agility time was bad - not a good indication that he'll ever be a "good" pick and roll defender.

Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 13:32

Lateral quickness. He has none of it.

i get that now - thanks

AH well - if he has no lateral quickness - i pass on him personally

Another quote from Hollinger that might induce some discussion

I think they need to look hard at trading Turner while people are under the mistaken impression that he's good. Unfortunately, I think they'll end up trading Iggy instead.

I don't see it as an either or - trade both of em

"Not what you want to happen, but what you think will happen:"

1. Lou Williams re-signs with the Sixers, or plays in another uniform next season?

Choice B

2. Spencer Hawes re-signs or walks?

Choice B

3. Jodie Meeks re-signs or walks?

Hmmm...still Choice B

4. Lavoy Allen re-signs or walks?

Choice A

5. Andre Iguodala stays or gets traded?

Choice B

6. Elton Brand stays on his current contract, opts out of his final year but re-signs a
longer deal for less yearly money, or the Sixers use their amnesty provision on him?

Choice A

7. Evan Turner stays or gets traded?

Choice A

8. The Sixers stay at #15 and draft either (a) a shooter, (b) a big, (c) other?

Yes to #15 and probably pick (b)

9. Do the Sixers trade the #15 pick to either move down or out of the first round?

No, but they might get another first rounder if they pull off a trade (of course, one opportunity for that is already gone)

10. Do the Sixers make a trade to move up into the lottery, if so, how high?

See #9. Don't think they will covet someone like Drummond or Robinson enough to trade their other first round pick and Iggy for that pick and maybe an expiring contract.

11. Do the Sixers make a serious run at Deron Williams in free agency?

No, although such a move would be a very exciting surprise.

12. Do the Sixers sign any free agent (from another team) for a contract worth more than $40M?

Maybe something approaching that, but possibly split over a couple of players.

13. Is Rod Thorn's replacement hired prior to the draft? Before the season begins?

Don't know and don't care.

Hmm...more information leads to a change...sorry, I value defense too much, please don't pick sullinger,

Hearing Houston Rockets have a deal in the works to move Sam Dalembert and possibly the 16th pick

hopefully yesterday started a week of trading before the draft

I'd seriously jump for joy if he was being moved to the Sixers for Evan Turner and the #15 pick.

But Evan Turner was drafted #2 - so in the Darryl Morey book of how basketball works he's worth a lot more than that.

Dalembert has a buy out as well - this might be another salary type move like yesterday if it happens

Rockets trade rumors tend to fall apart usually because morey gets greedy

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 13:55

I wonder if there's any truth to being able to get the 10th or 11th pick for him. You'd have to jump on that.

I know I would. They won't.

If turner was traded purely for a pick (thus you get cap space too) how low of a pick would you take and still be ok with it?

10, 15, 20?

keep going.


2nd round pick?

In my view, that cap space is worth more than Turner in the short and long term for the team.

Bring back the exact same team, but swap Ross (and maybe Rivers as well) in for Turner and this team's wins climb by 5.

5 added wins is an awfully big swing (assuming we adjust for the fact that the season is longer :)

Yeah, I have a theory but haven't had the time to put the research together for it.

MojoSoDope reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 22:58

Would like to hear it for sure.

Tray reply to MojoSoDope on Jun 21 at 23:03

Yeah, me too. Should be amusing.

Cholo reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 14:07

Top 15 (ok, 16)

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:15

Saw on twitter he's up at 5 am going to the gym and working on his game... I don't know, I would rather hold onto him for one more year and hope he takes a big step forward than to grab a role player, unless it's PJ III, I'm looking for a homerun pick in this draft.

Well here's my problem with that theory

He worked on his game (shot) last off season

And he shot worse (not vastly, but still worse) this season. There was no improvement.

You can work your ass off, but if you don't have the natural ability/skill to get better, you just won't.

The lack of shooting improvement this year after all the talk about how he worked at it is a big red flag for me

I don't really have a problem with people holding out hope for Turner. It's understandable, I'm just ready to move on.

It's a personal thing. I don't understand hope in the face of overwhelming evidence. I was trained in science for most of my schooling even if I quit, I don't deal in hope when the overwhelming evidence tells me my hope is futile. To me there's no empirical evidence that provides hope for the future of Evan Turner. I had hope last off season, but after another season, I can't see anything to have hope for.

That's just me though...trade him while he has value, if he disappoints again next year (which to me is like at least 75% likely) his value is none

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 14:25

well, with the engine of this franchise stalled for the last decade, I'm just sick of compiling role players. This team is like a scrap heap of role players for good teams to choose from, except the Sixers never deal any of their decent assets.

I'll take my 25 % chance (that may be generous) that ET can be something to build with. If not, he will turn into the role player they'd likely end up dealing him for anyway.

Yeah, compiling role players isn't great. the only thing worse than that is hoarding role players who don't fit, which is what I see Turner's ceiling as.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:29

fit into what though? Trading ET for a role player that better fits this current model of Jrue and Iggy isn't getting them past the first round.

I don't disagree that he's been terrible, but I'd rather hope that he can take that step than move him for some vet that provides GRIT and TOUGHNESS

Evan Turner has grit and toughness, that's not the issue.

He doesn't fit into the role of 'key player on championship contending team'...which is what I want to believe the sixers are moving towards...and haven't been since 2003 or so

By fit, I mean fit for a team that's capable of going deep into the playoffs. A guy like Ross, for example, can play for anyone if his shot translates. Defend and shoot the three, and it's easy to make it work. Turner, on the other hand, cannot shoot. And to put points on the board, he needs to dominate the ball and even if he winds up better than I think he will be, he's still not going to be efficient enough to warrant that. So no, I don't think even under the best of circumstances, he fits on a really good playoff team.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:37

Is there any instance of a high pedigree guy like that markedly improving his efficiency from year 2 to year 3? I'm asking because I really don't know, I'm fully aware I'm just grabbing at straws with ET at this point, I think by year 3 you pretty much know what you have, I'm trying to be as patient as I can be about him. Can't give up just yet.

Buke reply to johnrosz on Jun 21 at 15:02

Yes. Chauncey Billups who didn't shoot over 40% until his fourth year in the league. Maybe that's why he played for four different teams in his first six years. He was also a high draft pick who underperformed in his early career, but then, he arrived at Detroit and the rest is history.

His shooting percentages for his first three years were significantly below Turner's but a significantly larger proportion of his shots were 3 pointers.


Billups was light years ahead of Turner in his second season. Fell back a bit in his third, though.

Well on that we agree which is why I advocate (and have for a few years now) the blowing up model - in which you trade your assets aside from the few you rally like - for better 'younger' long term assets.

And to me - there's only one starting asset on the team to keep long term - Jrue - and one bench asset, I guess, in Lavoy Allen, but he's another guy that maybe in a small sample size against the celtics created a buzz he's not really worth of, though being a second round pick - how much money can he really garner in a sign and trade that any team would be interested?

I'd trade Turner, and Iguodala personally and if the offer was good enough I'd even trade Jrue,

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 14:32

If it's clear that this team isn't anywhere close to contention next year (they won't be), teams will be calling about Thad at the deadline like crazy. I expect more of the same Sixers of the last decade though, refusing to trade Thad when he probably would get you a really nice return. I think Thad has maxed out at this point but they will consider him invaluable to their quest for the 7th seed.

Thad had a pretty good season and is definitely a part of the puzzle if he can overcome his playoff woes.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:22

I think the value of holding onto him and hoping for progression is greater than trading him for a known commodity or just freeing themselves of his money.

#10 may be a little different story, if there's a guy there that they think can be a big time player, but I don't really see that either.

Doesn't have to be a big time player per se, it just has to be someone they think can be better than Turner, who isn't a big time player yet (and as I see it - never will be)

It kind of blows that LeBron's going to get to waltz to a ring without having to up against one legitimate wing defender in the playoffs.


A healthy, rested Pierce is the best of that bunch, but I'd say he was probably below average by that time of the playoffs. The other guys are all pretty bad.

How many 'legitimate' wing defenders exist in the NBA when you're talking about the best player in the league.

I don't know the names off the top of my head but who did the thunder play that could legitimately get in Durants way?

Hmmn, Marion, Artest, S. Jackson and then LeBron.

Every defender he's faced has been better than anyone LeBron faced to get there.

Who in the east, aside from Iguodala of course, do you think could give Lebron a good game...he's pretty good

Top three in the East are Iguodala, LeBron and Deng. After them...tough call. No one really stands out. And really, Iguodala and Deng aren't good enough to stop LeBron, they just make it harder on him.

Well see - that's the point - no one is good enough to stop Lebron - period :)

Oh and as far as big enough - Dude is a brick outhouse - no 'wing' defender is big enough to guard him - most power forwards aren't big enough to guard him and they definitely aren't fast enough

Yeah, but he's faced a bunch of patsies. I guess that's my point. It would've been nice for him to at least have to break a sweat on the offensive end. Though Granger did try to act tough in that series.

Garnett should've been guarding LeBron that entire series.

I think if that happens, the celtics lose even quicker, Garnett gets tired quicker, needs more rest, can't bring the offense.

You're just jealous that he wanted to go to Miami instead of philadelphia - admit it :)

CM reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:27

Do you count Sefolosha as a elite wing defender?

Is he on LeBron or Wade?

I haven't watched enough of the Finals. he's good, but not really big enough to cover LeBron.

CM reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:31

I haven't watched much, but he's showed up in some Lebron highlights.

Were those highlights him stopping Lebron or Lebron messing him around.

Thabo has been guarding him - I believe that the 'gimpy three' he made in game four was in the face of Thabo

i have been watching the games, and i can just say - if you don't have a larger (46 or so) high def television - you are missing out watching basketball games - the difference is just obscene

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 15:03

I'm not sure about Lebron, but he did show up Wade. He stole the ball from Wade at the end of game 2 and made it a one possession game. That play could have won them the game.

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 15:18

He's been covering him a lot. I think he's a pretty elite wing defender. Who is big enough to guard LeBron in the league who is considered elite? Iguodala, but he's always had a tough time with LBJ.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 15:04

Stephen Jackson?

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 15:01

There are times when Lebron just stands there in isolation for about 10 seconds and then launches up a jump shot. I don't understand why a player who has been in the league for 9 years with his talent level, hesitates so much in iso.

I understand the frustration with Turner, he's been pretty disappointing.

The guy that he reminds me of is Jalen Rose - big, ball dominant guards who weren't natural shooters. It took Rose a couple years to find his niche in the league before developing into a valuable rotation player.

I'd be fine with him staying or going, but I wouldn't just dump him for a late 1st.

Rose was also drafted 13th in the draft

Maybe if Turner were drafted 13th we'd have more patience?:)

After his sophomore season at OSU I think he was projected in the middle of the first round. That's probably where he should have been drafted.

The frustration comes from him actually hurting the team on top of being a disappointment. Next season should fairly determine his career trajectory. If he has anything to show for the thousands of shooting reps he should be taking this off-season then there's a chance he may still turn out.

I'm not intending to be an ass or start a fight, this is a serious inquiry.

Why do you think his shooting could improve next season when he focused on it when he already focused on it last season, and it didn't improve, it in fact was slightly worse?

I don't see why there is any hope for improvement when there was none this year after working with Herb McGee - I just don't see it

Buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 15:15

For a guy who boasts that he "was trained in science" you sure exhibit a lot of confidence in your subjective propositions. See the link in my post above about Chauncey Billups. That's just one example of a guy who improved his shooting after his initial years in the league. I believe that you could find others. Whether or not Turner will be able to do the same, I do not know.

Well, the missing piece in what you wrote is if Billups had to rework his shooting motoin from scratch because he had been shooting wrong his entire life.

if not - then scientifically the comparison isn't right - so - find a player whose shot had to be rebuilt from scratch and then we can talk

Buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 15:25

"so - find a player whose shot had to be rebuilt from scratch and then we can talk"

I'll pass. Not worth my time and not nearly as potentially stimulating for me as you may think.

Well, you are the one who called me out personally, if you can't back up your assertions, just move along young man...you got one example and think you've proved your point - i don't htink one example proves any point

Be it Chauncey Billups or the pistons title team

Buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 15:58

"young man"

Wrong again. I'm 55 years old.

That's great, physical age doesn't always reflect maturity level - as you prove

buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 16:18

Ah...there's the misuse of the word "proof" again. By the way, I didn't say that my example "proved" anything. I don't speak that way (although one could argue that illustrating that something HAS BEEN done does indicate that something CAN BE done). I explicitly noted that I could make no prediction about Turner. See, I'm not a guy who views the expression "I don't know" as a sign of weakness or blustery conclusions as a sign of strength or intelligence.

As far as calling you out, well, you're the one who insists on plastering your words all over the page. If you don't want to create so many openings for criticism, then you might consider showing a little more restraint.

Criticize what I say, not who I am, and maybe you can have a leg to stand on.


Charlie Ace reply to Buke on Jun 21 at 17:59

There have been many: Havlicek, Scottie Pippen, Lebron James to name a few stars. (Lebron was below average when he came in.) It took Billups about 6 years.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 15:16

People who rework their shots completely don't necessarily get their touch down after one year, especially when you are thrust into the NBA. It's not a one-year fix.

Turner's form was so much better this year, and he didn't get the touch. That's a result of shooting the ball ass backwards for so many years. If he keeps working on that form, I have no doubt he'll improve. It may never be a strength, but he can keep people honest with it if he keeps practicing with that form.

Last season he re-worked his form and used repetitions to embed it in his muscle memory. He wasn't consistent (what's new?) with his developing form, but really it's only a matter of repetitions.

His main issues, to my naked eye, were, first, his upper-body being detached from his base, a major source of inconsistency for anyone. A more fluid motion equals a more repeatable stroke. And second, when he played tired or unsettled, he would fall back in to the poor shooting fundamentals that plagued his first season. The second issue has more to do with his conditioning, both physical and mental, and less with his form, but it all contributes to the same thing: poor shooting.

If he can continue to fine-tune his fundamentals while putting in thousands of reps on his stroke (and come in to next season in better shape) I think a reasonable expectation can be a developed corner three with higher conversion rates inside the arc. Working on his physique and shooting touch aren't the difficult part in my opinion, just time consuming and requiring dedication. His major obstacle is becoming consistent.

that's great. If he's willing to put in 10,000 hours of work, he can become an average shooter, maybe. An average shooter whose entire game is taking long jump shots.

I don't think it's fair to say his game is based on taking long jumpers. At times the long jumper has certainly dictated his offensive performance, but first and foremost he is a driver. If he's an average shooter from the corner and converts an average rate of jumpers, that will be one tremendous step up from where he's been for two years. If he becomes reliant on either then he's truly doomed.

But I also think he's more intelligent than you give him credit for. His goal is to get to the basket, but with defenders sagging off him ten feet that becomes an insurmountable task. A lot of those shots he took in the playoffs I feel he would have converted if he had some breathing room inside, and that all starts with making defenders honest.

Average shooter who relies on the jumper and/or below-average driver with limited athleticism who has trouble getting his shot off in the lane and doesn't get to the line. Either way, it's not a guy you want to build your offense around. Unfortunately, if you want the sexy counting stats, he's going to need the ball in his hands all the time. Again, time to move on. Anything short of breathtaking improvement on his jumper is just going to maybe move him from completely sucking to just plain sucking.

A guy with his skills is only going to be an efficient scorer if his jumper is a strength, a weapon. I don't think that level of improvement is going to happen. What will happen is the reins will be given to Turner, he'll drive when he can, get a bunch of his shots blocked, whine for calls, eventually start taking jumpers he can't hit. When the ball isn't in his hands, his man will ignore him and make things harder for the rest of the guys on the floor.

For a fan base that has spent 8 years ripping Iguodala for his jumper, it amazes me that Turner gets a pass. Iguodala was never, ever as bad of a shooter as Turner is, and Iguodala could actually do other things effectively on the floor.

Turner's a 10-15 minute guy off the bench. A guy you maybe ride against second units when he has an extreme matchup advantage. He'll play some D and grab some boards, but if you make him focal point, even of a second unit, he's going to submarine your offense.

For a fan base that has spent 8 years ripping Iguodala for his jumper, it amazes me that Turner gets a pass. Iguodala was never, ever as bad of a shooter as Turner is, and Iguodala could actually do other things effectively on the floor.

Was Iguodala ripped his entire career, or was he ripped once he was off his rookie deal? To me the amount a guy is paid often increases the amount of criticism.

KH reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 16:10

Brian, I am not a Turner fan but I think he is a little better then that. I think he could do well as the main guy of the second unit. He would be playing a lot against the other teams benches and he could control the ball a lot. That being said Im ready to trade him for anything of value. I think somehow a narrative has been spun that he played decently in the play-offs, when it was pretty much the opposite, and his value is probably as high as it will ever be. Time for the Sixers to cut bait if they can.

Buke reply to KH on Jun 21 at 16:25

You may have hit on something. Perhaps his potential ceiling in the league after a few more years is as a sixth man. Who knows? When you look at those who have won that award in the last 15 years, he doesn't appear to have the potential at the moment to rank among the best of them but he might be able to stand alongside the lesser ones.

I disagree with your assertion that he can only become efficient if his jumper is a strength. He needs to be able to make open jumpers with his feet set, something he hasn't been able to do. For him to become efficient he'll have to convert at a high rate under and around the basket and he'll need good spacing to do so. That doesn't mean he needs to be a centerpiece to an offense, especially not in this offense, but that's how and when he will become effective on the offensive end.

What I was saying is that the physical limitations won't allow him to be a dominant driver, so the only way he's going to be efficient with his limited athleticism is if he's hitting a bunch of jumpers, and really when I say jumpers, I mean threes.

Does Evan Turner 'move weird' to you when he drives to the basket? There's just something off about it to me

Brian - how does milsap float your chain?

How long is his contract? It was front-loaded, right? Like a poison pill for Utah.

I don't really have a problem with him. Thought Utah maybe used him too far from the hoop, but he was essentially a SF in their best lineup at the end of the year. Think he's probably a better rebounder than anyone on our front line right now.

Milsap makes slightly over 8 mil and expires next year - i bet to make it work the sixers would have to take on devin harris as well - who expires next year - they makes 17.1 mil next year - should work with iguodala - that sounds fun doesn't it?

PS - on Sullinger - I've seen this a few places - Derek know anything?

From what I have been told he’ll miss a big chunk of the year to corrective back surgery… not sure that is smart for Orlando.

I like Millsap, would Utah do Milsap for Turner?

update on dalembert

On reports of a Dalembert deal, was told "Not happening." Rox would like to move a pick, but also like Sam's contract.Long way to next Thu.

johnrosz on Jun 21 at 15:12

Perry Jones is expected to come in for a visit with the Sixers, glad to see that. Would be totally ok with taking him if he's there at 15, if he sucks he sucks, but in a lot of ways he seems like the wing equivalent to Drummond in the draft. High bust potential, but has all the physical tools to be a really good player.

I don't see the point of the investing in another tweener who may not turn out when they have a known quantity in Thad, who's very effective at his best and should be a yearly contender for sixth man of the year.

Well, if they're similar players the difference is you have Jones on a rookie contract to replace what costs $8M+/year for Thad to do (and not do in the playoffs, as the case may be).

Perry Jones and Thad are different types of players. Perry Jones will make Hawes look like Shaq. He is extremely averse from contact, which is why he wants to be a SF. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't block shots. All he has is impressive physical tools. And he can't even use them effectively. He has poor defensive fundamentals and positioning. It's one thing to draft a guy for his physical skills if he is a legitimate strong big man. But drafting a guy like that to play on the perimeter usually doesn't end up well.

JonesIII is the closest thing to a bust in the draft IMO. I want none of him.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 16:29

I was thinking the same thing in regards to Terrence Jones. If he's the best player available, draft him. Having a similar skill set to that of Young shouldn't be a deterrent. Just get rid of Thad and his hefty contract.

Buke reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 16:42

Well, OK, but do you know of any takers for Thad? Otherwise, we have Thad and a cheaper Thad light (although T. Jones is considerably brawnier than Thad).

Hawes gone. Lou gone. Brand Amnestied. Iggy may be gone but I woudln't count on it. The Sixers will want a lot for him. I wouldn't be shocked if the Sixers traded Turner. Chad Ford seems to think the Sixers are shopping him around for a top 10 pick. I personally would do that if I could get high enough to get Andre Drummond.

Are you talking about the comment in the ford chat? The impression I got from that was that the 10 was available and he threw a bunch of names out there.

Of course that was before the hornets deal too - or did ford say something today?

CM reply to KH on Jun 21 at 16:11

I would give up any asset (or combination thereof) they have to get Drummond.

He's the lottery ticket with the most upside, IMO.

And his downside is terrifying, and seemingly more likely, at least based on folk who have talked to him?

People get very excited when high rated players start slipping down the draft because then maybe the sixers can grab them...I get concerned that the rumors and whispers are seen as very real after you talk to the kid and that's why he's slipping

Jesse reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 20:19

Jrue worked out for us

Jrue wasn't a project top 5 pick (on talent) going into his draft I don't believe

Actually, I think he was. Sacto was supposed to take him instead of Tyreke, I think. He dropped because of some kind of late red flag about his shoulder, according to Chad Ford.

I remember him dropping because of his shoulder - but really - top 5 talent (and dropping because of your shoulder and dropping because of questions about your motivation and interest in basketball are two entirely different things, it's more akin to sullinger than drummond)

Jesse reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 0:58

No. That is an excuse. He was projected top 5 and he dropped. No rationalization. It's worth it to swing for the fences when top players drop.

buke reply to KH on Jun 21 at 16:38

"I personally would do that if I could get high enough to get Andre Drummond."

Well I would, too, but we're Sixers' fans unlike the GMs around the league. I would be surprised at this point if Turner could get the Sixers anything above #16 or so.

What about Iguodala?

buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 16:48

Just to get Drummond? I wouldn't personally. Now, if a competent vet who filled a need was traded along with the #2 for Iggy and something else (like some current or future Sixers' pick), then probably, yes.

If you trade Iguodala for a competent vet aren't you just creating a new hole while filling an old one?

buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 17:36

I agree with those who say that either Iggy or Turner should be traded. If Iggy were traded, I would expect the Sixers to get much more in return. I'm guessing that maybe Turner could slide over and do a reasonable impersonation of Iggy light. Perhaps he could concentrate on defense and rebounding and score about 10 to 12 points a game while dishing out about 3 assists per game. Alternatively, perhaps Thad could be inserted in the starting lineup as a small forward while Turner is a sixth or seventh man. Meanwhile a veteran might be acquired in the deal to provide interior help or outside shooting.

I don't believe Turner can be much of Iguodala lite unless by lite we mean 'rebounds and very little else'...I don't think he has the court vision no matter how good his handles get...let alone the defense...what Iguodala brings will be sorely missed, but I'm fine with trading him because I don't believe the sixeers can win a title any time soon...

I do not understand why people see it as an either or though, I'd trade them both, if turner for 10 and Iguodala got the sixers into the top 6 or something, I'd make both deals

Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 20:13

For Iguodala, I'd need to get whatever I thought would get me Drummond.

For Turner, I'd need mid to late lottery at worst.

If I wasn't such a staunch supporter of drafting Turner, I'd probably feel the same way as Brian. If we would have drafted Favors, the future of this team would look a lot better.

You shouldn't dwell on what you were - it doesn't matter now

You can't let your feelings at the time sway you - it's 2 years later - just go by what he's done :)

buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 23:35

I'd trade Turner for #10. That would give the Sixers considerably more draft flexibility. If the team did that and traded Iggy (hard to imagine them doing both), then I think they have to somehow get a substantial veteran point guard in the deal because I don't think Holiday by himself is good enough of a playmaker.

Sam Amico: For those asking, NBA sources say Warriors appear to be keeping No. 7 pick. May have floated it briefly, but nothing out there they wanted.

The NFL Expands using new technology by selling "View 22" to fans for 100 bucks a season

The NBA expands using new technology by handing out social media awards


I think the Sixers should trade one of Iguodala, Holiday or Turner. Personally I think Holiday is he one to trade. I also think Brian's dramatic turnabout in assessment of Turner is driven more by a feeling that either he or Iggy needs to leave tha anything else.

I believe Collins, though he's not crazy about Turner personally and didn't want to draft him - recognizes he is a winner and will keep him. If I'm wrong about how Collins assesses it, you can bet Turner will be traded by mid-July.

All just my opinion, but emotionally writing off a guy based on the kind of no-coaching season we just endured makes no sense to me at all.

Couple things

"He's a winner" - What does that even mean? Most of the guys who make the NBA tend to win a lot in lower levels - cause if they didn't - they wouldn't bee good enough to hit the NBA - Elton Brand is a 'winner' - not sure how that made him better at basketball.

The only thing Evan Turner did better this season compared to last season is rebounding - that's his only improvement - not sure...he had a low ceiling coming into the league because of his age (the longer you stay in college, the lower your ceiling ends up being, there's research from ESPN i think they called it S.M.A.R.T or A.T.T.A.C.K - not sure which - where they examined a whole bunch of stuff regarding the draft, and who came out when)

I don't know what a 'no coaching' season means - because Doug Collins does an awful lot of coaching and berating

Here you go - from the inquirer

Beginning Saturday morning, the Sixers will bring in 6-11 Arnett Moultrie (Mississippi State), 7-0 Tyler Zeller (North Carolina), 6-11 Perry Jones (Baylor), 6-10 John Henson (North Carolina) and 6-10 Andrew Nicholson (St. Bonaventure). Philadelphia Inquirer

Focus on mid first round big men after the sullinger back news - coincidence?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 21:58

I think they have wanted to bring in all the bigs in their range for a while. I'm guessing a bunch of them initially turned them down while they hoped to secure assurances that they would go in the lottery.

It's great that they are able to get to work out all of these guys in person.

Do you recall if they worked out sullinger already - or did he turn them down?

Having a hard time understanding why OKC plays Perkins at all. I haven't checked the data, but Collison seems to be a much better option.

In this series he probably is - but they keep not doing it.

Perkins might be an amnesty casualty this off season

WOnder how people would feel about him here

Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Jun 21 at 21:49

He has a defensive reputation. Doesn't seem to be a terrific rebounder, or exceptional at anything for that matter. He has a pretty hefty contact I believe. I guess he'd be an upgrade now, but I don't think I'd feel anything more than apathy if he somehow made his way here.

Holy crap you're right - that contract is insane - I didn't know it was that big or that long...but if you claim on the amnesty how much counts against your cap?

The great sam presti either signed or traded for that contract - I don't see how it's not held against him

He traded for him, then extended him.

If you claim on amnesty, only your winning bid counts against the cap. I'm not exactly sure how it works, you'd think it would be the winning bid flat, per year. The amnestying team picks up the difference. So if your percentage bid works out to $3M in year one, maybe you pay $3M each year. Or maybe it's always 15% or whatever, for the rest of the contract, so it increases as the contract increases. Interesting question for Coon.

So - if they amnesty him - you put in a claim - say 3 mil - and if yo uget him - you're paying him (probably) 3 million per year through 2015

That's not horrible - when you think about that Spencer Hawes probably will average more than 3 mil per for the rest of his contract.

I think if Bennet wants to keep Harden and Ibaka then Perkins is the casualty - but that's really next off season

You know, there's a ton of talk about whether they can keep both of those guys, and really, it's not even a debate. Ibaka's good, but you can replace what he gives you imo. Harden's the guy they need to keep. Ibaka doesn't make them special.

Well, in our small sample size instantaneous sports coverage world, Harden is being questioned in his value as well in some corners as he's kind of laying a big freaking egg in the finals.

I wouldn't mind Ibaka on the sixers roster, but I think as a fan I have low expectations of what 'improvement' is - but Ibaka is going to get paid a lot.

Again, it's not an issue for them really until next off season, though taking care of it this off season would be the smarter move (to me) because if you plan to let one go you can trade him for value now

Well, he's a special scorer. His defense is complete shit, especially his on-the-ball defense, but the guy is so freaking efficient, it doesn't really matter.

Can someone explain to me why every time I turn on the Finals, Derek Fisher is in the game?

One word


Ibaka. Max. OKC doesn't match, Sixers hve the DPOY runner-up.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 3:21

You were the one going crazy and holding it against him that the great Scott Brooks hadn't been signed yet,lille he would ever leave there. I think we can hold off on that talk.

Presti traded for Perkins because he thought he needed to beat the Lakers and needed post defense. Amnestying him is a no brainier, IMO. He's only helpful against Bynum and Howard. Now he needs to worry about beating Miami.

this is coming from ford so take it how you will

@chadfordinsider: More on Royce White. Now hearing more definitely promise is from Celtics at 21.

love when 2 people say 2 different things

@sam_amick: Source says Iowa State F Royce White does not have a promise from Boston.

No coaching means there was virtually no preseason and only regular season practices. The Sixers literally had 3 practices the entire regular season. Bottom line they made zero adjustments to the prior years scheme thru the entire season.

He's a winner means his compete level and performance in the playoffs was better than he regular season. Only he, Iggy, Lavoy and Brand can claim that.

You notice . No response from Brian at all on that post ... Nor were there such hypocritical comments coming from his direction during the season - or I'd never have followed this blog on a daily basis all year.

End of the day ... My feeling is we trade Turner for the 10 th pick we looked like a smacked ass for he next 8 years as. It becomes clear Collins screwed up he development of a money player.

I'm not even sure what this nonsense is in reply to, but by all means, please go elsewhere if you don't like it here.

I'm glad you're enamored with Turner's "compete level" whatever that is. I'm more focused with production level, and Turner was just about the worst player to set foot on a court during the playoffs. Much like he was nearly the least efficient scorer in the entire league among players who played more than 1,500 minutes.

Trading Turner for the #10 pick is beyond a no-brainer at this point. I'd say pick any guy in the top 15 at random in this draft class and it's no worse than a coin flip that he'll be a better pro than Turner, and he'll be much, much cheaper.

Turner is the peso of money players...apologies to any Mexicans out there. (If Greece wasn't on the euro, I would've used them).

Apologies to he community for he triple post - not intended

Wow - this game 5 is kind of the worst game of the series -unless the Thunder have a big run in them with a heat choke job - this isn't going back to oklahoma

eddies' heady's on Jun 21 at 23:06

I really like Andrew Nicholson, glad they are getting a look at him. Think he may be a very underrated PF in this draft.

Turner has went from Evanordinary(!) to a peso .... damn

Yup, and you're still a cunt.

Johnrosz reply to MCT on Jun 22 at 1:49

Haha, come on man

eddies' heady's reply to MCT on Jun 22 at 8:52

..better than having Evan continue shoving his meat down your throat

you're rich, pun intended

No, he's really not. Can you stop already with these awful guesses of supposed second handles? Makes everyone look bad.

Nah, just makes him look bad

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 15:13

Yeah, I guess you are right. I'm just so tired of him pegging anyone who disagrees with him about Turner as me. Like, he couldn't be anymore fucking wrong. The paranoia on him is growing by the hour.

Like, MCT posts on here all the time. I've debated with him, and I'm pretty sure I even argued with him from on a couple of occasions. It's like I'm spending time debating points with myself.

MCT reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 15:20

My bad for being childish and calling him a name. I don't even disagree with him about Turner anymore, I just don't like the guy.

johnrosz reply to MCT on Jun 22 at 15:21

to be fair, you don't actually know him. He might be a really good guy that's just having some fun on the internet.

MCT reply to johnrosz on Jun 22 at 15:21

True. I should say, I dislike the Depressed Fan/online version of eddie's heady's

You could say the same thing about me and yet people yell at me all the time :)

Rich reply to MCT on Jun 22 at 15:36

Oh, I don't have any problem with you. I don't really have any problem with him either, just when he automatically says I have multiple handles. In fact, he once hinted at me being the same person as GoSixers.

I know you post here all the time. So much so I know your stance on Turner, mostly been sort of a middle ground guy, disagreeing with people on both sides. Probably more negative than positive actually.

Do people have multiple handles on here? I'd be interested in that.

He's paranoid about that. Accused me of being GoSixers for years, actually.

Typically, if someone has multiple handles I find out. If I suspect, I check the IP addresses and try to put an end to it.

I'm flattered that anyone would be accused of being me (I have had various nicknames in the past yes but just for the hell of it) - trust me - no one wants to be me - internet or otherwise

Have you seen his interview on DX? It's really remarkable that he perceives "Somewhat." to be a fully formed thought. He's tall though, right?

spencer for hire reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 22 at 7:00

I like Nicholson also; best big shooter in the draft and blocks shots also. I take him over Moultrie and probably Perry Jones also. I hope they take Terrance Jones or Leonard if they are there though.

Chad Ford - searching for ideas - runs a draft based purely on #1 picks (only) in the past 20 years, based on what was known at the time

Iverson before Howard

Oh, so you need superstars to win a championship? It's too bad that Lillard is probably the only scoring superstar in this draft, and the Sixers won't get him because he's a PG.

Scoring is relative to efficiency, and team efficiency outweighs individual efficiency. Monta Ellis averaged over 20 points a game for two years as the engine to Golden State's offense, and in those two years the team didn't finish better than 3rd in their division. Stephen Curry just put in another injury-riddled season and who do they decide to keep? Not their twenty point scorer.

I'll take an efficient scorer that's a superstar defender or passer, before a superstar "shot maker."
How quickly we forget that Wade and James are all-world caliber in multiple facets of the game, and forget the cautionary tale of the Knicks, and their singularly-proficient "superstars." That is the more likely outcome for most teams that attempt to reach for the top shelf and not farm their own talent in an established system. Continuity does have it's benefits as long as the arrow is pointing up.

Lmaooo listening to 106.7 the fan lebron haters are going mad wonder how Cavs owner Dan Gilbert feels right now lol.

spencer for hire on Jun 22 at 7:28

If Houston offered their 2 first rounders and L.Scola for Iggy would ya? Scola's last year is not fully guaranteed and there is a chance the sixers could come out of this draft with 3 starting quality players.

A major rebuild in one draft or move up and target someone. Would McHale embrace such a move? K.Martin and Iggy would make a nice 2/3 tandem and they need to get all their young p.f.'s minutes.[Montiejunis, M.Morris, P.Patterson]

I'll do it. Houston? Nah, no.

"Tony DiLeo, the senior vice president of basketball operations for the Philadelphia 76ers who is highly regarded by his peers, is drawing keen consideration from the Los Angeles Clippers for their vacant general manager’s job. … "


Not sure if this is old news. But it definitely sounds like Dileo wont be with the Sixers for much longer one way or the other.

Yeah i read about this a few days ago. I kinda like DiLeo (he is the only one of the FO guys that i liked all this years), but i guess we are going to see a whole new 76ers come September so we may as well say farewell to everyone (almost everyone) involved with the team of late.

Out of curiosity: what makes you "kinda like" DiLeo? Was it the ignoring of Euro talent over the last decade-plus? Was it drafting Bradley over Penny? Was it the decision to keep this team on veteran life support for the last 5 years, with stars like Andre Miller?

Except did he draft Penny over Bradley?
Was he over ruled on Euros
Is he the one who drafted Kyle Korver, Louis Williams, Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young and Andre Iguodala?

He's well regarded by many who look at the whole board for his talent evaluation, no one is perfect, and he also coached this team to the playoffs...

His departure is bad for the franchise but good for Napoleon Collins consolidation of his power base

Pick your poison. Guys like Witte and DiLeo from the old regime who were okay with a team of role players or Collins/Thorn [Replacement] from the new regime who "seem to be" headed in the wrong direction. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with either one, but I'm not okay saying I "like" DiLeo.

Well, since you've already settled on your opinion I guess clarifying the facts is unimportant.

Since the team was purchased last summer, one could say that everyone here is from the 'old regime' because the new regime hasn't hired anyone yet.

Dileo has done a very good job, one of the few strengths and signs of stability in a front office that has been a revolving door since Larry Brown left.

Though none of it matters now that Napoleon has taken over

Collins isn't short.

Maybe in height, he isn't short, but megalomaniacs always tend to be small in some way and over compensating. (Do you know of any tall historical megalomaniacs? Napoleon is just the first one that came to mind)

Royce White has shut down draft workouts, supposedly he has a promise, ESPN projecting it's the celtics.

Saw elsewhere the Celts didn't make a promise, and he may have shut down the workouts because he doesn't want to fly all over the country to do them.

Amico said no promise...another report said the T'wolves would draft him at 18 if he was there or trade their pick.

I love pre draft time - after all these years, people (writers) still don't know they're just pawns...at least admit it :)

In a week, the sixers will do nothing, and the off season will be quiet

DiLeo has been widely regarded as the key member of the staff when it comes to evaluating draft talent. He has found a lot of value at the places the Sixers have been picking. Comparing the Sixers track record with non-lottery picks to other teams make the Sixers one of the best on the league (the only team that you can easily say has done a better job is San Antonio). I also remember Iguodala praising him during the draft a few years ago saying DiLeo perfectly guessed every pick and move during the draft by other teams.

He did a very good job as a coach as well. He took a team that was struggling mid season and turned it into a playoff team by the end of it. And that was the best playoff first round exit team (of the three) since Iverson left IMO.

He was part of the organization for 20 years for a reason. I've never read anything bad about him from the media. He is well regarded by anyone covering the Sixers. And to top it all, as soon as it appeared that things are changing with the Sixers, immediately teams are after him to be their GM. First it was the Blazers who considered him, now it's the Clippers. Other teams clearly value him high as well.

im still confused why scott brooks player perkins over collison and now we find out Perkins has a tear in his groin

By snarling and playing through his injury, he brought the veteran toughness they needed to get blown out and give up layups.

He's also really good at getting dunked on, dramatically.

Hey, he'll be on some valuable basketball cards in the future then - that's important

I still laugh at Celtics fans saying how they let a great player in Perkins. Most overrated player by any one fan base.

I'd love to see the Synergy numbers for his post up catches in the playoffs. It's mind boggling why they ever went to him. It's a turnover or blocked shot 3 out 4 times, no joke.

Matt reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 13:23

Watching Perk get stuffed every time someone spoon fed him a dunk made me believe Spencer Hawes could be a piece of a contending team.

Most overrated player by any one fan base.

Evan Turner would like to get into this competition
So would John Wall
and a variety of Bulls bench players

Oh, and laker fans.

You should see some of the trade ideas Laker fans think are fair based on their scrubs and or rookies

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 13:33

You can't blame them. They got a 27 year old Pau Gasol in exchange for Kawme Brown and Marc Gasol, a 2nd round pick who never suited for the Lakers.

I guess, but that was an exception, not a rule
Not to mention they think stern is out to get them (Chris Paul deal)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 13:52

It seems like every trade they've done has been one sided. Last year they were able to get a decent PG in Ramon Sessions and all they had to give up was Luke Walton, a guy who had a bigger contract than Sessions.

The CP3 trade was one sided as well and would have fucked both the Rosckets and the Hornets.

Stan reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 13:36

It seemed as though the Celtics would have won the title back in 2010 if Perkins hadn't been injured. He's probably a better player than Jeff Green.

CM reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 13:48

Perkins has a role in the league, MIA was a really bad match-up for him.

He would have been better suited for a series vs ORL or LA or SA - a team that played a post player significant minutes.

How did Perkins do in the LA series?

Bynum shot 43% from the floor vs OKC compared to 51% in the 1st round and 56% during the regular season.

Rich reply to CM on Jun 22 at 15:07

I'm sort of just making fun of him because I don't like Perkins. Still, I don't get why he gets the ball: This year's playoffs, he had a 41 percent eFG though. That's pretty tough to do at the center position.

San Antonio was a bad matchup for him though. They put Perkins into pick and roll after pick and roll with Parker in the first couple of games to torch OKC. In Game 2, he looked helpless. Then the Spurs sort of went away from it a little, but really, OKC won that series on the offensive end.

I agree, he does have a place in the league, just at probably half the money he is making. Perkins is good at a couple of things: post defense and offensive rebounding. Problem is, post defense is becoming less and less useful. One could argue Los Angeles and Orlando are the only two real threats you need it against. Watching him stink it up a lot in the playoffs gave me an appreciation for how good KG is defensively. KG did a lot of covering for him rotationwise in Boston, and he doesn't have that in OKC. Ibaka may get there one day, but his main weakness right now are rotations, which make his 2nd Place DPOY vote a joke.

Stan reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 15:14

I can understand why Perkins is rated as he is. The Celtics were up 3-2 against LAL in 2010, lost Perkins and then lost the last 2 games.

In 2011, Boston dominated Miami in the 1st 3 regular season games. Once they traded Perkins, Miami beat Boston in their last match-up in the regular season and then beat them in the playoffs in 5 games.

Rich reply to Stan on Jun 22 at 15:24

Besides you probably placing too much emphasis on regular season games, Perkins was hurt until January last year, so wipe two of those game out.

Still, do you think Perkins would have changed that Miami series? I don't think he would have made any difference when you consider personnel and matchups. Miami has no post defender That had a lot more with Miami figuring out who they were, IMO.

My Celtics friends always talk say that about the Lakers series. I could see it just because Game 7 was so close (Game 6 wasn't), maybe, but I still don't know about that. To me, it had a lot more to do with the Lakers going home and playing the last two games there.

Rich reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 15:26

Sorry, should read, "Miami has no post threat."

Stan reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 17:06

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just staing why fans feel that way. He wouldn't have made a difference in the ECF, but I do think he's a better player than Jeff Green and any player that Boston paired with KG this year.

So do you think a team with a "big 3" consisting of Iguodala, Deron, and Howard could beat Miami in a 7 game series?

Yeah, I do actually.

A dominant PG, a dominant big and a dominant defender on the wing. That's pretty much the perfect formula for beating Miami.

Possibly, Iguodala presents a bigger challenge for Lebron than anyone else, no on the heat can stop dwight howard offensively.

But, keep in mind, the role players matter, chalmers in game 4, battier over all, mike miller going nuts in game 5.

They don't have to contribute every game, but it seems like a role player needs to step up each game.

I like that core, but you need guys around it, a 3 point shooter, somone to cover bosh so howard doesn't get in foul trouble and can focus more on rebounding...

I think that team would have a better chance than any other team that could be built in the east yeah :)

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 15:12

I feel like LBJ has owned Iggy in the past, and wouldn't present an actual challenge to the point of impacting the series in any way. That's not to downplay Iggy's defensive prowess, but moreso to acknowledge that LBJ is the greatest player in the world by a wide margin.

I'm not disagreeing but Iguodala presents MORE of a challenge than most players wouldn't it?

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 15:17

yes he would, he wasn't really healthy during the playoff series last year either. His chase utley knee syndrome was flaring up I believe.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 15:18

Who hasn't LBJ dominated? Shawn Marion.
In 2011 he closed the playoffs against Chicago and Boston. Against Philadelphia, Wade was the one who did the most damage. You can only limit him. I don't think LBJ would score 35-40 pts against Iguodala or average 30 ppg in a series against him.

Rich reply to johnrosz on Jun 22 at 15:16

I agree that LBJ is the guy I've seen most comfortable operating against Iguodala. Just a physical specimen.

If you put Dwight Howard behind Andre though, I'd imagine Dre could make some adjustments to make it a lot tougher for LBJ.

johnrosz reply to Rich on Jun 22 at 15:19

oh yeah, absolutely, big difference between sending someone to the "help" in the form of Spence and in the form of Dwight haha.

I think that big 3 would be built for the playoffs especially, they would make some half court offenses look historically bad.

4 games this year. the 41-point game where Iguodala got hurt and LeBron absolutely went off after that. Then 29 on good efficiency, 19 on bad efficiency and 28 on good efficiency. So pretty much one bad game, two of his average games, and then the big game which was really mostly a big fourth quarter (think he had something like 20 points after Iguodala went out, in like 15 minutes).

Playoffs last season, he scored 30+ one time in the five games. 16, 21, 24 and 29 in the others. Regular season last year, 16, 20 and 32. He also had 9 turnovers in that 16-point game.

The point is that it isn't a cakewalk for him when he plays the Sixers, like it was for this entire playoff run.

I actually still think if you added Dwight to the current team they could beat Miami. Have to get rid of Turner and get a SG who can shoot, though.


That's a dominant defensive team, and Howard's going to give you 20+ efficient points that Miami just can't stop up front. Unfortunately, no way to get it done that I can see this summer, unless Orlando is completely enamored with Turner. Then you could amnesty Brand, trade Turner plus a couple of #1 picks to Orlando and take Howard back into cap space.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 22 at 15:16

all you can do is sign Deron and patiently wait for Howard to sign in 2013.

Here's a question for you. Say they're able to lure Deron Williams somehow, and he's the only addition they make outside of the draft. (have to amnesty Brand to do it). Where would this team finish in he East?


Turner and Thad off the bench w/ other flotsam.

I'd think better than this year's team, probably, but that frontcourt would still be the achilles heel.

I wonder if Jrue gets you the #6 pick from Portland.

CM reply to Brian on Jun 22 at 15:38

I think it would, he'd be the top PG in this draft by a large margin (IMO).

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 22 at 15:42

I mean, if Turner could get you in a position to pick Ross and you kept 15, a smallish crunch time lineup could be:


They could pretty much switch anything with them, and have plus rebounding guards to help with that disadvantage a tad. You'd still have Thad (who I'd be open to move if it got a good pick), Voose, and maybe another free agent off the bench too.

I say they win the division, maybe win in the second round, but still don't put up much of a fight against the heat

can someone tell me what I'm missing? Lillard is listed as a junior everywhere, but I see four years of stats at Weber State. What gives?

He was granted a medical redshirt his 3rd year because he only played 9 games due to an injury.

One area that I haven't seen much dicussion of is that of sign & trades with Lou Williams and Spencer Hawes.

Specifically, could you construct a deal to get Josh Smith from ATL by giving them C to put next to Horford or a hometown hero?

While most see them as imperfect fits here, both guys will have value somewhere in the league.

If you included Turner in a S&T with Hawes for Smith then amnestied Brand, would that make PHI a more attractive destination for Deron Williams?

I'm not sure the demand for Louis Williams will warrant a sign and trade (I'm almost sure that the demand for spencer hawes won't require a sign & trade, if he gets the MLE i'll be impressed)

You undervalue Josh Smith if you think Hawes and Turner is enough to get him.

Reports are the hawks still believe in their team - while smith might want out they won't give him away - and they don't need a point guard because they like teague

So getting Smith without giving up Iguodala is pretty unlikely, let alone for hawes and evan turner

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 16:54

What about Thad and Turner?

For Josh Smith? His perceived value is such that without Iguodala you don't get him...I don't know that I'd trade him for Iguodala but that's his perceived value (as I see it)

Thad is a bench player, at best, and Turner is as close to being a bust as you can be without actually being one

Not to mention - do their contracts come close to matching up or are the sixers absorbing the difference after they waive braned?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 17:40

Thy pretty much match up. Josh Smith makes around 13 mill. Turner makes about 4.5 mill, and Thad makes around 8 mill.

I doubt he has that much value. He's basically an expiring contract that won't re-sign with Atlanta.

I think he's "getable" without including Iguodala.

He's reportedly unhappy and they're so cash-strapped by the Joe Johnson contract that they're limited in the ways that they can change their roster.

And he's their best asset to improve their roster - no?

Sign and trades are less useful under the new CBA. There's a limit on value and years on the contracts, I believe. I'm sure they'll still happen, but they did kind of emasculate them a little bit.

So - let's say you can get the #8 pick for Iguodala and the #15, you take back Calderon (yeah I know you don't need him but he's a good player and an expiring contract) and ed davis.

What player MUST be available at #8 for you to be comfortable with the sixers making that trade?

I'm not trading Iguodala for a pick unless Robinson or Drummond is available.

Would you make the deal (giving up 15) if either was available?

Your favorite source says the sticking point is the 15th pick :)

If Davis is coming back along with #8, I'd be okay with that (assuming their target is there). Davis is a young big who can do some things defensively and on the boards.

I'd try to swap 2nd rounders as well to try to take advantage of the reported depth of this draft.

I really have no opinion on the matter honestly - just curious what others thought - it's a rumor i've seen floated many places - i prefer it no matter the outcome of player and or pieces without the #15 because of how I value Iguodala, plus, it's the same division, and don't you always have to pay a premium (rightly or wrongly aside) when trading within your division? Keeping #15 is that premium toronto pays

PS - Are the reports true - did Marc Cuban really make Skip Bayless his bitch on ESPN this morning?


I like Cuban more today than I did yesterday

He should have smacked Smith around too

Jesse reply to GoSixers on Jun 22 at 16:39

He kind of did that too. It was great.

I mean I've been a Cuban fan ever since he took yahoo to make his billions, but to go on ESPN as a guest and shred him, that's just awesome.

Charlie H reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 22 at 18:08

I'll never say another bad word about Cuban.

Dwyer was even better.

If you follow the links this isn't even the worse thing that's happened to bayless this season - Jalen Rose demonstrated that he flat out lied about his 'basketball career' in high school and called him out on the air.

And ESPN, which claims to care about covering sports, does nothing about it.

It's sad, though unsurprising, that all ESPN really cares about is the viewers, and the eyes, not having folks with a shred of integrity or knowledge commenting on sports.

Bayless isn't the only one, but he's one of the worst, if not THE worst covering any sport on ESPN (some of the former baseball players are god awful)...i'm pretty sure though that they rejiggered that show again and now it's just two hours of first and ten - with skip and SAS permanently against each other.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 23 at 0:04

I was thinking the same thing. He's the poster child of what is wrong with sports journalism today. Funny thing is that both Skip Beyless and Bleacher Report gets universal hate. I've never heard anyone say a good thing about either one.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 23 at 14:39

"Water Pistol Pete...Jr."

Almost felt bad for Bayless for a nanosecond

Awesome stuff from Cuban. Gotta love an owner who understands the nuances of the game as well as he does.

Maybe if we're talking about getting up to #2. Not if Drummond slips to #6. Iguodala is worth more than just moving up 9 spots in the draft.

good news?, bad news?,wasnt really impressed with ferry to begin with

@Chris_Broussard: Hawks have spoken to Danny Ferry about becoming their new GM, sources say.


Reports were that the job was Ferry's for the taking but he didn't want a job where he didn't have final say so...so really, this doesn't change the overall tenor of the 'puppet' GM concept...it just means it'll be a different puppet.

That's how i see it - it is news I guess, but neither good nor bad - it just is.

would atlanta do thad and lou for josh smith?

i think it works money wise

They might considering Smith wants out and his contract is expiring. We might need to add a future first rounder though (maybe lottery protected).

I'm not sure this works out personnel-wise for the Hawks or financially for the 76ers.

The Hawks, from what I understand, want to get bigger by moving Horford down to power forward. With Zaza Pachulia missing the entire Celics series, Jason Collins and Erick Dampier combined for an average of thirty minutes played per game against Boston. That's a piss-poor rotation by any standard.

For the Sixers, they should should know that the Hawks will unload Marvin Williams on any prospective buyer of Josh Smith. With Smith coming in as a starter, then the next logical step is using the amnesty clause on Brand. Then there's extending Smith, which will be at least $10M per year for three or four years.

I don't see the 76ers spending $47M (Brand's one year salary, Marvin Williams two year salary, and Josh Smith's one year salary) on what could amount to one year of Josh Smith. Even with an extension, say for three years, that basically boils down to four years of Josh Smith at a grand total of at least $80M.

Stan reply to Cin on Jun 23 at 23:38

I would give up Thad and Lou/Evan for Josh Smith. It wouldn't matter if he left in free agency, the Sixers would have a bunch of cap space. I wouldn't take back Marvin Williams.

My ideal scenario this season was to amnesty Brand, trade Evan and Thad for Josh Smith, then sign Eric Gordon or Deron Williams to a decent contract.

It would give you a lineup of:

Vucevic/1st round pick

The following year they could sign Howard, and then extend Jrue and Josh Smith :)

It would have worked better with Eric Gordon than Deron Williams because the Sixers could have offered him a lesser salary and still have enough cap space to build a bench and sign Howard in 2013. Unfortunately, NOH will have the ability to resign Gordon after raping Washington.

Peter Vescey on the sixers GM 'search' today.

Danny Ferry is the leader for the 76ers’ job currently held by team president Rod Thorn, but may decline for fear of not having full control. Ownership should stop playing games. Just give Doug Collins the title of president so he can call the shots on and off court out in the open.

Tom Moore on Jun 23 at 15:50

Video piece from Saturday's Sixers predraft workout. It's mainly on Perry Jones III from Baylor, with interviews and workout footage:


Yes, that's Evan Turner shooting jumpers in background during my first stand-up.

There are some interesting videos on nba.com previewing the draft and in one of them Steve Kerr shares that when he was the GM of the Suns they really liked Jrue Holiday and wanted to give him a promise, which his agent declined. On draft night when Holiday fell to 14 where they were drafting they thought they had a deal with the Warriors in which they would have acquired Stephon Curry, so they thought with Nash, Dragic and Curry they can't have another point guard and went with Earl Clark for defensive purposes.

Lets hope the Sixers get lucky like that again this year.

welp it looks like the Flyers have finally pulled the trigger on their own version of ET for Derrick Favors, waited until the second day of their draft to do it though for some reason...hmm...

Um yay?

Did they find a goalie yet?

they found him last year, next time anyone complains about Brand or AI9's contracts just be glad they don't go 9 years like Bryzgalovs does!

1. I think he Lou somehow ends up in Atlanta and gives them long-term stability as a bench guard where Crawford and Hinrich could not.

2. Hawes is way, way out the door.

3. Meeks may receive as better off on a lesser team to play a larger role.

4. Allen is most definitely re-signed. Platoon at center with Vucevic. maybe.

5. If Collins can get a veritable post threat, Iguodala stays. Otherwise, his value has never been higher and in my eyes it's unfair to keep him while his surrounding cast "matures." He deserves a chance at a ring and that won't be here.

6. I think they are taking a wait-and-see approach with Brand, but at most he spends one more year in Philly.

7. Turner 100% stays for the duration of his rookie contract.

8. No clue, but if I had to guess, they end up with either Zeller or Ross at #15, unless Sullinger is somehow still available.

9. No.

10. Brook Lopez.

11. Thorn gives them "continuity" throughout the draft process before moving into his contractually-stipulated advisory role.


Your top five in overall PPP allowed in the playoffs, min 100 poss: Holiday, Joel Anthony, DeAndre Jordan (!) , Rondo and Bass.

Stan reply to Rich on Jun 23 at 23:42


So were they the five best or worst?

Rich reply to Stan on Jun 24 at 18:05


Rich reply to Rich on Jun 24 at 21:55

Thad didn't do a whole hell of a lot. Nobody outside of Lavoy was particularly useful on the offensive end in that series. Thad had a few moments, I guess.

Rich reply to Rich on Jun 24 at 21:57

In the frontcourt that should read.

It's just isolation attempts and a small sample size, but I think it bolsters the "Jrue is actually a really good defender" argument.

tk76 reply to Stan on Jun 24 at 19:50

Bass? Really? Is that because KG took the tougher cover?

Tom Moore on Jun 23 at 23:45
Stan reply to sfw on Jun 24 at 12:34

Is Van Horn really a common last name?

Danny Ferry is reportedly close to being the new GM in Atlanta, looks like the collins puppet search will continue.


johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 17:04

Billy King might be looking for a new job soon....

No indication of that yet, and reports today are that it's 70:30 (approximately) Deron stays in New Jersey.

I think King has some stability, the Orlando thing is a disaster you can't fully put on King. They thought they could have them both by season end...they didn't take into account that Dwight Howard has no clue what he really wants

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 24 at 20:27

If the Nets keep Deron, I hope the Magic sign Steve Nash and then package Nelson and Reddick for Granger.


That should keep Howard in Orlando while spiraling both NJ and Orlando into years of mediocrity.

That won't make Orlando mediocre. That's a championship caliber team. Howard managed to get the Magic to the finals with turkoglu, Lewis and Nelson. Imagine what he can do with Nash, Granger, Richardson and Anderson. 4 major 3 point threats and possibly the best passing PG in the league instead of guys who shot the three well, but never created anything for Howard and couldn't defend anyone. Not to mention that Granger while not as good as some believe is certainly a better defender than anyone outside of Howard the Magic had during their "contender" years. This lineup would be a dream come true for Orlando and a major problem for Miami.

DC Comic on Jun 24 at 22:13

Lavoy Allen re-signs with the Sixers.
Spencer Hawes, Lou Williams and Jodie Meeks do not return - although they might sign/trade Lou in order to help him out and get him to a team he wants to play for that wouldn't otherwise have the cap room to sign him.
Andre Iguodala gets traded. With his trade value relatively high, and his Chase Utley-like knee issues likely to suffer after playing in the Olympics, the Sixers make a smart decision and trade him for either a starting caliber big man or the #6 pick from Portland to draft Andre Drummond.
Evan Turner stays
The Sixers keep #15 and draft a shooter
Rod Thorn's replacement will not be hired until this time next year.
The SIxers do not sign a free agent for a contract in the $40 million range.
Elton Brand is kept to allow cap room for a major free agent move at the trade deadline or next summer

Most NBA teams will not have the patience to wait for Drummond. Very likely to fall below 6. I think the Pistons may have a shot at him unless the Sixers or another team move up to 7 or 8 and pick him.


I'm not sure this makes sense to me

Most of the teams in the top 5 are a long way from contending from anything so why would they not have patience.

And if patience is needed on a player, it's unlikely the sixers will draft him because they're deluded into thinking that the team will be better when they hand the keys to Evan Turner

I haven't heard anyone from the organization thinking that trading Iguodala and "giving the keys" to Turner will make the team better. I look at this as maximizing the value of your assets.

I can't see Iguodala having more value than he has now. He became an allstar and lead his team to the second round of the playoffs. Not to mention the fact that i cannot imagine Iguodala resigning with the Sixers after all that he's been through over the years.

Also i don't think Turner will have a lower value than he has now. Even if he puts meaningless stats on a bad team (which might happen without Iguodala) he will still improve his perceived value.

Of course that's not to say the team won't be better next year. It all depends on the other moves.

Lets put it this way. If they do indeed trade for Drummond, or even Henson (he's quite raw as well) i just can't see that being a short term move for a better record next season without additional moves.

DC Comic on Jun 25 at 10:25

The GM situation appears already to be a significant issue thwarting the Sixers competitiveness this offseason. If you are watching the moves and aggressiveness that Houston is beginning to display, they are just the kinds of things you'd hope to see the Sixers pursuing.

I'm not a proponent of any particular GM candidate, but the fact we don't have one in place going into this offseason means the Sixers will be sitting around observing while other teams are the ones making major progress.

It's ironic that Collins has managed to make the one move - the perception that any GM candidate will be just a figurehead - that is guaranteed to undermine the team's ability to effectively remake the front office and team composition in ways that are build toward becoming a conender

I dont' believe the lack of GM has prevented the sixers making any sigificant moves.

One move has been made of any significance, I'm not really sure why we are talking about Houston, where rumors have been floating, but that's all.

The sixers have focused on the draft, and it seems trading Iguodala...what else would you suggest they be aggressive about?

The presumption that nothing is happening because nothing is being reported is faulty

The #7 deal framework is Iguodala for #7 Jefferson Dorrell Wright and one other small piece - hang up is Jefferson - sixers don't want his contract (which expires the same time as Iguodalas, really don't see it as a hold up if the sixers get to keep #15 and get the guy they targeted at #7)

The #8 deal framework is the rumored Calderon/Ed Davis Iguodala swap...supposed hold up there is the raptors want 15, the sixers don't want to give it up.

Though it makes little sense for either team to obtain Iguodala in my opinion, if they want him and the guy the sixers want is available at 7 or 8 - go right ahead.

Not sure there's any player in this draft worth that kind of risk reward investment - but those are the rumors

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 11:41

I read a user comment to a draft article who wrote Toronto prefers Bargnani plus 8 for Iggy. No idea of it's validity.

It's all as valid as you want it to be, Calderon makes sense if you combine it with the Nash to Toronto rumors, plus they get a pretty good off season if they add those two (Nash and Iguodala) short term.

Though at the same time, their 'super rookie' still is having buy out issues, so maybe he can't get out of it to play this season.

Just saying, the original posted seemed concerned that there were no baseless rumors regarding what the sixers were doing while there were baseless rumors about the rockets, so hopefully this rumor will assuage him.

Honestly, my dream scenario is to trade Iguodala and the #15 to the kings for Cousins #5 and filler to make the trade work, cause Cousins on the sixers would just make brians writing so much more entertaining

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 11:53

Bargnani might have the same effect for different reasons.

True, but the cousins dynamic on this blog is so fun, seeing it day in and day out - is there a better entertainment dollar on the sixers blogo/discussion forum sphere?

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 11:57

Not since Eddie Jordan.

Yeah, but was there anyone pro Eddie Jordan?

I mean, sure, this is the best place to discuss the sixers on the web (and trust me, I've been a lot of places on the web, dark dirty scary places you don't really want to go), but Cousins would just make it more awesomer...i mean, even more so than if that Iguodala Monta Ellis thing had gone through

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 12:04

No there were no pro Eddie guys. At least they wouldn't put in in a blog entry.

And there's at least one vocal Demarcus Cousins guy here, daily fireworks would be awesomesauce

and that's what it's about

Personally, I'd like to see Cousins, Wall and Turner all on the same team. They'd each average 20 points/game with 30% usage rate and the team would average like 75 points on 90 possessions/game. They'd blame the role players.

Now you're talking, though that'd be difficult in Philadelphia.

At this point, I want the roster shaken up purely for something new to talk about.

I mean the post Iguodala Turner Years have been pretty beaten and they havne't even started yet :)

If it will assuage you

There's a 'source' who claims the sixers are in discussion to obtain the #7 or #8 pick...and that frameworks have been discussed with negotiations on going.

Jesse reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 12:18

But will Drummond still be on the board at #7? A lot of mocks have him going either #5 or #6. If so, any idea who the Sixers would target (assuming that they would first target Drummond)?

Mocks are notoriously inaccurate, and Drummond is all over the place, does Portland really want to take on two projects? Is Portland even keeping the pick, who knows.

To me, the only guarantee regarding who goes where is Davis at #1 - the next 3 names could go in any order after that.

Heck, the Cavs and bobcats are rumored to be making some swap moves (2 for 4 and 24, I think it's 24) because the cavs are afraid that the wizards will take their raw upside guy.

Course, it could all be bs as well, but it's fun bs to speculate about as long as you don't take much of it seriously.

The only thing I'm mostly (like 95) sure of is that Andre Iguodala won't be on the sixers roster opening day 2012. That 5% accounts for injury possibility in the olympic try outs (depending on who shows up and who doesn't, I dont' believe it's a lock he's on the final London roster)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 25 at 12:31

Why do you feel that way? I thought that since Collins has more control, it is less likely for the team to trade Iguodala.

Because I feel now that Collins has more control it's more likely that the team will trade Iguodala, and more likely to make a bad trade because of that.