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Draft Day Is Upon Us

@daldridgetnt: Source: Bobcats have five legit offers they're currently exploring to trade the second pick overall in tonight's NBA Draft

Yeah, i think the Bobcats will trade the pick it's just a matter of who will offer the most.

If OKC really offered Harden, they need to think long and hard about that.

If OKC really offered harden, then Presti isn't as smart as everyone says he is

Or the owner is unwilling to spend and he is trying to find a way to make it all work. We'll know soon enough.

Matt reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:22

Why? It'd save them the issue of struggling to pay everyone for now and Harden could be replaced with Beal. That leaves them some flexibility for other moves too. Even if they somehow paid Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka without tax hell, they'd be completely locked in. This move provides flexibility.

This move makes the Thunder worse
A team that went to the NBA finals and looks to be the prohibitive favorite next year gives up one of their key players
Their 'salary issues' don't start until next off season
You could probably get more immediate help via trade
Dont sell off one of your major pieces for a maybe when there are other ways to 'save money' in the future
Or maybe if you hadn't signed perkins to that awful extension in the first place it wouldn't be so bad.

This is a panic move, and ibaka should be shopped BEFORE harden...he's more easy to replace.

Besides, if you want to believe the report that OKC is shopping the pick, then you have to believe the report where OKC denies that they're even considering such a thing.

They can't both be true

One is a nameless source, one is from OKC itself, with attribution...

Trading Harden is stupid - and unnecessary

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:33

How does trading harden not get you into the conversation of the FIRST pick overall. Harden is that good. The second pick overall is not enough.

In a different year, he might. This year, no. A.Davis is the kind of prospect Lebron was. Someone said yesterday that there are only three players in the league worth more than the #1 pick this year: Lebron, Durant and Paul. Of course this is only his opinion (whoever that was).

Like I said, the hype....

Anthony Davis isn't in the same class Lebron James is, Lebron James entered the league as a complete dominant player in the league...Davis isn't that...(oh yeah, Lebron was younger)

But - that's why Harden isn't in the conversation for #1

In the days leading up to the draft the words prospect and hype are often mixed. That's the biggest flaw of the draft IMO.

They're mixed in the media, that doesn't mean they're mixed in front offices

There are a lot of problems with the draft and how it works, hype is something for fans and GMs to use media for to try and maneuver and take advantage of other teams.

It's probably not in the top 5 of REAL problems

Actually some analytics show that Anthony Davis rates out as a superior propsect to guys taken recently with the number 1 pick in the draft such as Blake Griffin and D Rose. I personally think Davis is going to be a beast. What offensive skills does somebody like Blake Griffin really have and he averages 20 and 10? Griffin is just a monster athelete that attacks the rim relentlessly. Davis is bigger and longer and at least as athlectic. Davis is a lock to be bette then Blake Griffin and thats not even taking into account the defensive side of the court where he will be a dominant force.

Stan reply to The Six on Jun 28 at 10:52

James Harden fr the 1st overall pick? Come on, he's not that good.

Because, accurate or not, the hype around anthony davis is that there are very few players you'd trade his rights for, and james harden isn't in the conversation

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:56

I think he's a good piece for a championship roster. Getting a center with his ability and potential is extremely difficult. Harden may be a decent player but he's a guard that isn't on the same caliber as Dwayne Wade or Derrick Rose. I wouldn't trade Anthony Davis for Harden.

if they stay at 15(which i think they will) my top 3

1. Ross
2. Perry Jones
3. Terrence Jones
not a fan moultrie which i keep seeing in some mocks

Someone just put a fake rumor out there so PJIII can slide more?

yea i think thats what this is

Love that picture, Brian. Too funny. Let's go for the whole enchilada tonight.

Aim, pull trigger, reconstitute, Sixers, you perennial also-rans!

Since I've been looking at mocks and not rankings, I just realized DX has Drummond as the #2 prospect. If he's really going to fall to #9, Philly better at least be trying to trade up for him. I'd gladly sellout for a core of Jrue and Drummond.

I have major concerns about Drummond but i'd be fine if they went that route. He is among the guys i like overall. I think he has a decent chance to become a good starter level athletic C.

The show starts at 7 PM but the first pick is at 7:30 right? Lame, but I'm leaving work early to catch this :)

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:39

Anyone else on this site out here in LA beside you and I? I was looking for a good place to catch the draft. Maybe if anyone was interested we could get a group together.

Well I'm not in LA, I'm in santa barbara (though now I work in carpinteria) and I only know a couple places in town to watch sports.

I have heard rumor of a 'philly sports bar' in Ventura, but since I don't drink it's really not worth it :)

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:44

yeah that's a little far from where I am.

When my brother lived in LA, this is where he'd go to catch all the Eagles games: The Shack.

A burger with hotlinks on top of it? That just sounds gross

The Six reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 10:51

Thanks Brian....I've been there once for Eagles games. That's not a bad option.

Charlie H reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 16:19

The Shack??? Wow. I used to go there in the early 80s. A split hot link on top of the burger. I worked down the road from there.

Pretty funny Brian, putting up a photo of Chili's. Classic.

James Harden is not worth the first pick.

I don't understand how Meyers Leonard could be an elite athlete at 7' and not be a huge star playing in the Big 10. Or is he and I just wasn't paying attention?

I don't see Terrence Ross lasting until 15, not if he's a top-ranked shooter and plays defense.

Sixers will draft a big man and jettison Hawes. Thorn saying that Hawes will probably be on the team next year is just smoke. I think that's his role now, designated smoke-blower.

FKD215 reply to The Six on Jun 28 at 13:28

I just moved to Long Beach from Philly. There are a couple places around here, but I'd love to know more about where to watch 6ers and Eagles.

Long Beach huh? WHat brought you out there?

Fkd215 reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 18:12

My wife got a job teaching psychology and we decided to give the west coast a shot. And I'm doing evaluations for non-profits, making art, and missing getting to hear Marc Zumoff's voice 3 nights a week.

I pay for the league pass package - it's worth it for a sixers fan - I think...besides, the games tart earlier, mostly, over at a reasonable time and you still have time left in the evening :)

Like most people here- I'm praying the Sixers make a move up and grab Drummond without giving up #15- and then take Terrance Ross. The more I read about that kid and the more highlights I watch- I really like what he could be on the Sixers. Jrue, Ross, Thad, and Drummond is as athletic as any young core in the NBA.

Quick question- has anyone here attended the draft before? Me and a couple guys got tickets and are going tonight...any insiders advice or things to look out for? Thinking about wearing a suit and pretending to be Tyler Zeller's long lost cousin but I'm not sure that will work out.

Don't know if he'll post today, but I know Derek has, and a few of the guys over at LB have with 'press' passes (I guess anyone can get one of those these days)

In case this wasn't posted yet (apologies if so):

Jerry West on Golden State's pick:

“We don’t want a player you’re going to have to wait on for two years,” West said on Chronicle Live. “We want someone who can play right away.”


“Let me tell you something, the most difficult players to find are dirty-work players,” West said. “And I don’t mean that in the sense of beating people up. I mean that every single night you know they’re going to compete.

“One of the things, I think, this team really lacks is toughness. This year we’re going to get some toughness.”

If Drummond drops...Igouldala is the exact player West is looking for. Of course it could all be a smoke screen too.

Stan reply to The Six on Jun 28 at 10:59

4 team trade

Houston gets Pau Gasol
LAL gets Iguodala
SAC gets Houston's mid round picks
PHI gets SAC's picks and drafts Drummond

The Six reply to Stan on Jun 28 at 11:01

For the record....I am OK with any trade that a) Gets the sixers Drummond, and b) Doesn't cost the team Jrue in the process.

Does whether or not they ahve to give up 15 or hamstring cap room matter?

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:08

No to me. I want building blocks of Jrue and Drummond. I can deal with everything else later. No contract we take back would hamstring the team past two years anyway.

I don't disagree, but if reports are accurate, the sixers do, and that might just be posturing, but if the rumors are accurate, the sixers can make a deal with GSW if they agree to take biedrins or jefferson (Jefferson makes more money by the way, if that matters) which they don't want to do.

Or it might all be BS

ryano reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:14

I think giving up 15 matters. Picking up Ross or another PF to bolster our front line is an important move. Does the cap room problem matter if the team can amnesty Brand?

I don't think Pau Gasol moves tonight, I think he does move, I think the hawks want gasol and the lakers don't want josh smith - today at least - so I doubt that they'd want Iguodala either

Jerry West is the man who said to the hornets "Hey, draft that Bryant kid out of Lower Merion at #13 for us, just as a solid, and we'll give you Vlade Divac".

No GM is ever perfect, but Jerry West might be the best front office mind of my life time in the NBA.

Which means he also can play the media better than anyone else :)

There are rumors, from a variety of sources, with a variety of reliabilities that the sixers and golden state have talked - the issue is that Golden State wants the sixers to take back a contract (Jefferson or Biedrins) that the sixers don't want to take back.

It's like #7, Dorrell Wright, and the contract for Iguodala (not sure if 15 is involved or not)

There's a report that the Pistons took a look at Drummond yesterday, because he might slip to 9.

Rumors that Cleveland might be targeting Dion Waiters at #4 this morning as well.

It might be a pretty fun draft night

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:12

If I'm trading Iguodala for a lottery pick, the contract I get in return wouldn't matter to me as long as it doesn't extend for more than 2 years.

Trading Iguodala for Drummond puts the team out of playoff contention for a few years and makes the purpose of cap space obsolete.

I would trade Iguodala for Biedrins (2 years 18 million remaining), Wright, and Drummond if I felt like it was time to rebuild.

I feel it's a couple years behind the time to rebuild :)

but that's the good thing about being a sixers fan, since they always forget to rebuild, give it a couple years, and they get another chance, give me false, hope, and then do nothing.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

Fan(aticism) = insanity

This should be a defining night for this team. They should choose to either rebuild for the future or make drastic changes to put this team in contention.

My gut feeling says that they will extend Hawes for one more year and then sign Crawford to a long term deal worth around 5-6 million per year. The Sixers will win 41-45 games, they will have another 1st round exit, and people will praise Collins for getting a mediocre team to put up a good fight against a far superior opponent.

As a reminder, here's a good page to track all the rumors floating around the NBA


Interesting quote from Coach K about Austin Rivers:

'When Austin came to Duke, I told him that every player is like a house: The more skills you learn, the more windows you have on your house. When he came to Duke, he had one really big window. He was an amazing scorer. The goal was to add more windows to his game. He's in that process right now. "I hope he gets a demanding coach at the next level who pushes him to keep adding to his game. That's how he’ll become great. If he reverts back to just doing the thing he does well, his chances lessen that he's a good player in the NBA." '

Chad Ford's Grantland comment seems to have stirred up a hornets nest of people coming to Rivers' defense.

Still don't understand why Ford couldn't say that on various of his ESPN outlets

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 11:43

I'm guessing Rivers reminds you of Curry to a certain extent?

I wan initially opposed to the idea of drafting him but I've warmed up to it. Also, by drafting Rivers it's less likely that the Sixers will re-sign Lou or trade for Crawford.

Crawford opting out of his contract guarantees that the sixers won't trade for him tonight

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:49

Thank god.

I'm on the fence with Rivers. I like his jumper, think he could be a nice piece for that alone, but I do have a feeling he's going to be a little too much like Lou to fit in between Jrue and Iguodala, which is still the direction I have for the team, until one of those guys is traded.


Moral: He who lives in a glass house has stones.

Chad Ford says the Sixers are trying to trade up for Terrence Ross, and their Big Board is as follows: 1) Terrence Ross 2) Jeremy Lamb 3) Arnett Moultrie 4) Perry Jones III 5) Terrence Jones

2 of 3-5 will definitely be available at 15.

Steve Kyler

I think they get Ross without trading Iggy… but Houston has interest in Iggy for sure.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:53

When was the last time the Sixers traded up in the draft?

Was Thaddeus young picked higher or lower and than traded for?:)

Nah, they just took him at 12.

the last trade I can remember is Jason Smith. Think Miami took him one spot higher and we traded Daequon Cook for him. Or maybe that was vice versa. They've traded picks away for nothing somewhat recently as well.

Sorry - memory shot

The thing i was thinking of was the carney / thabo deal

That was brilliance (thabo was drafted higher though, so technically the sixers traded down)

Yep, forgot that one. Carney...man.

That's not Larry Hughes bad, but same principle - run fast -- jump high - but basketball?

I wonder if it's a focus on athleticism that is the draft mistakes (aside from Turner)

They went away from athleticism for the past two picks, hasn't exactly worked out.

L. A. Steve reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 18:25

You're almost right, the Heat drafted Smith one position ahead of us. We then drafted Cook, per their request. Then we traded Cook plus our 2nd round pick for Smith.

We lost that second round pick because Billy King told the world we were going after Jason Smith. Pat saw an easy mark and went after it.

Any idea who that second round pick turned into?

L. A. Steve reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 18:29


Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 18:33

Nick Calathes. Danny Green was taken right after, FWIW

I think Calathes is rumored to be coming back to the NBA next year

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 11:56


Athleticism? Potential? Upside?

I'm not sure - but probably for the same reason Speights was rated higher than Hibbert and Voose higher than what's his name.

I wonder if the sixers draft skill (tony dileo) is split based on position - they evaluate back court (1-3) players alright but suck at front court evaluation

if you have 40 minutes ford and russillo on the draft


Tom Ziller and Bob Cooney both have the Sixers taking Andrew Nicholson. Please, no.

I wonder if Collins hides from Thorn at TGI Friday's tonight.

Well, they reached for Voose. Wouldn't shock me if they do it again. Nothing beats reaching for guys w/ limited upside.

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 12:11

Undersized, too, right?

I'm with you on the athleticism and shooting. Just look at the Finals we just saw.

KH reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 13:35

I wouldn't call Vucevic a reach at all. Most mocks had him in the top 20. How a lot of teams draft is they put players in tiers of prospects and then they take the best guy left in a particular tier that fits a need. I also don't think Vucevic career in the NBA will be a bad one. He will be a rotation guy for years just needs to get a little stronger.

He was a second-rounder prior to the combine, and I think most mocks had him going to the Sixers because they were clearly taking him. Never saw a mock that had him going any higher than the Sixers.

He rose in every single draft board as soon as people realized he actually has elite C size. Most previously thought he would measure far worse. He wasn't a sexy pick, he wasn't a pick who dropped but he wasn't picked too early either. I agree that changing what you feel about a player after workouts and some measurements drastically is ridiculous but his perceived value was a top 20 pick at the time.

All in all after only one season to evaluate he is looking like a decent pick in a pretty bad draft class. Only Faried and Brooks did better and neither of them is going to be anything special IMO. Faried will be an enegy big off the bench and Brooks will become the next Nick Young IMO.

Vucevic showed plenty of flaws but it was that kind of draft. Not a single different pick would've made things better.

Energy Big off the bench versus soft doughy big off the bench who doesn't like to rebound

I'll take energy big off the bench for 100 alex

#8 isn't going to end up being anything more than a bench player either.

See the bigger picture...

Without a C on the roster, it would be far more likely that Hawes is re-signed.

I think that we'll see an imporved Voose in year 2. He'll never be more than a fringe starter/good back-up, but those guys get paid a lot of money in this league.

I see the bigger picture - but that's a horrible justification for #8 right now - Hawes shouldn't be resigned because you could get a minimum salary guy in to play center who sucks as much as Hawes.

That's just a forced justification for this bench guy trying to make it a good pick after the fact

I'm not saying he will. I'm just saying he was an average pick. No obvious miss out there. And there are plenty of worse players drafted after him.

As for a bad rebounder, the stats pretty much speak for themselves. He was 30th in the league in rebound rate as a rookie, right between Favors, Ilyasova, Gortat, T.Chandler, E. Davis and Hibbert. He wasn't spectacular but he was far from bad.


Speights was at 16.2

Is Speights a good rebounder?

Of hamburgers and fries, yes.

He did a solid job last year.

I absolutely agree that stats in a vacuum are relatively useless, but that doesn't discount the fact the last year Vucevic statistically did a good job rebounding the basketball.

And Kris Humphries is an awesome rebounder

Sign him :)

If he signs for the right price why not? He is a very good rebounder. He provides energy. He can't do much else though. For 5million a year i'd be happy to have him.

Stan reply to Xsago on Jun 28 at 14:23

5 million is not enough. He wants 8-10 million per year for 4-5 years.

Some team will offer him a deal that is close to that.

I think NJ will give him a one year deal for 9 million, and then give him a long term extension once the Dwight Howard scenario is resolved.

I know, which is why i don't want him. That doesn't mean he is not a great rebounder and that he can't help a team.

This is the perfect example of the biggest problem with the league. Players are no longer evaluated for how good they are but for how much money they make.

Opening paragraph from Mitchell's latest masterpiece:

"Asked this week whether the 76ers were trying to move up in Thursday night's NBA draft, Sixers president Rod Thorn said that while he has spent a lot of time on the phone, he doesn't expect to make such a move."

Who do you think he's been talking to on the phone?

the owner of chili's to see if he can become the genral manager there

CM reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 12:19

Mitchell is a complete dud.

Thanks for not linking to his piece (of shit) so as to not artificially inflate his view count.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 12:27

Milwaukee for an Iguodala/Monte swap

NJ to bring in Johan Petro

LA so they can exchange #15 pick for the #60 pick and save 1.5 million dollars

Houston so Morey can stockpile more mid rounders

Spencer Hawes, continuing to demonstrate that his stupidity extends far beyond basketball

Spencer Hawes: Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. We might as well be Russia in 1983. #americancommunists Twitter

Ah, a short 12 months ago this guy was banging the union drum. I can't wait until he signs elsewhere.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 12:32

I can't believe I've been on twitter for almost a year and forgot to follow him. I've been missing out on some great stuff.

Be patient with Spence. Brilliant minds take surprising routes. His thinking is not complete. He may migrate to profundity yet. Twitterdee or Twitterdum?

I have a few simple qualifications

If you think Ronald Reagan was a great presidnet - you're a complete an utter douche

If you don't understand what communism is - you're a complete an utter douche if you use it improperly - (that includes confusing socialism and communism as the same thing)

If you're a rich white guy who is paid too much money for being tall but think poor folk shouldn't have a right to health care - you're an utter douche

Maybe if he didn't SUCK so much at basketball I'd be a bit more forgiving (I'd root for Kob eon the lakers for instance even though I know he's a misogynist stalker type) but he sucks at basketball AND he's an utter douche

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 12:46

This isn't a political blog even though I agree with a lot of what you say.

It's also not your blog right?

People who own blogs can delete comments they don't approve of

I'm pretty sure it's not a 'post a link to ugly porn stars offering blow jobs' blogs either - right?

Alright, everyone focus your ire at Rod Thorn, or some other common enemy. Hawes' political nonsense amuses me in that he's such a hypocrite. Porn amuses because it's porn.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 12:52

It was basketball related!

But seriously, I don't think I want to read a nasty political debate on a basketball blog.

And I don't want to read links to useless porn stars offering blow jobs because I'm not a 12 year old boy any more.

And it is basketball related in the fact that the whole 'locker room environment' was such a big deal in trading Sam Dalembert - you don't think a borderline racist white guy in the locker room would cause some tension?

Correct me if I'm wrong but "utter douche" x 4 hints at a predisposition entering your analysis of our team's center. Yes, he strains to compete. Spence takes to roundball as Warren G. Harding took to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Matt reply to Stan on Jun 28 at 12:43

I guess it's to be expected, but they're hideous.

Ha. Even Iguodala is debating Hawes.

Great, that'll endear him to this fanbase. Debate the uber-conservative white guy on Twitter.

Here's my question, and it's serious, for all the talk about locker room harmony, isn't having a big old opinioinated right wing redneck in a locker room where the primary player is not of the redneck variety cause some tension - more so than a Sam Dalembert wanting to shoot the ball a bit more?

Don't think most of these guys care about politics all that much.

I think they care about where they come from, and most of them come from the kind of places that benefit from what Hawes refers to (ignorantly) as communism.

Racism isn't politics, and Hawes will claim it isn't racism, but it's economicism (for lack of a better word) and a lot of NBA players come from economically challenged backgrounds.

That's a leap you make, which I'm not sure a lot of guys in the NBA would, or even care to. Doubt it's that big of a deal, honestly.

As far as I'm concerned, it's as likely to disrupt a locker room as Sam Dalembert wanting more shots

Course this is the NBA, where players start fights over poker debts, yet don't start fights over a guy shtupping his wife

Certainly could be. Though there haven't been any reports of this locker room being disrupted, just lost.

Don't make something that is a non issue an issue. And your opinion is not any more valid then Spencer Hawes in the grand scheme of things. People don't come to sports blogs to hear poilitical opinions.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:16

I really don't think these a lot of these players could hold a political debate and I doubt Hawes brings it up in the locker room.

Matt reply to Stan on Jun 28 at 13:01

Since when does "C'mon son be cool" constitute political debate?

Stan reply to Matt on Jun 28 at 13:14

Obviously Iguodala said something to Hawes about his tweets.

This NBA podcast on ESPN is humorous

I'm looking forward to Hollinger's version of the "oh, hold on a second, I'm getting multiple texts from sources, be right back" chat on ESPN.

The best parts of these chats when I read them is when they talk about sixers players and the information they state as fact seems absolutely contrary to reality

Especially in regards to Hawes

New rumor that people might like

Dejuan Blair - unhappy in SA - SA wants to bring over a euro - needs roster space - Dejuan Blair available

He doesn't fit the stated goals of adding a shooter or getting bigger in the frontcourt, but depending on what happens in the 1st round and what deals are on the table...

I'd consider both the 2nd's for Blair if they draft a shooter or a C in the first. He pounds the glass and comes from a well-schooled defensive system. Also, would set the best screens we've seen in philly since Marc Jackson was glued to the floor of the Wachovia Center.

Stan reply to CM on Jun 28 at 13:19

I think SAS is looking for a 1st round pick and that is what they're most likely to get.

What was the site that pertained to Sixers rumors only?

This is the only thing I know of.

prosportsdailiy.com has rumors that are team related as well

Sources said Charlotte's phones were burning up on Wednesday with teams trying to move up and grab the No. 2 pick. But those suitors have balked so far at having to take the aforementioned Tyrus Thomas, who has three years and $26 million remaining on his contract

So - would you be willing to take on a 3 year deal to get that #2 pick?

If it's really about clearing money - the sixers can do that - be it turner - or handshake waiting on brans amnesty

Depends on who you are giving up...

Iguodala for Thomas + #2? Don't quite like that. But i would do #2 + Thomas for #15 after a Brand amnesty. The cap space this year is useless anyway.

That doesn't work without taking on diop also i don't believe

Plus they won't out from under money - not more money

though Turner works cause of his rookie deal

I'd do it and just absorb thomas into brands money

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:16

I would take back Thomas' contract in exchange for Robinson.

I would take on Thomas' money to get a shot at Drummond, as long as I could hold onto Jrue.

Chad Ford gives me a big laugh as he gives us his pronunciation of naivete

There are two ways to pronounce it. Was it completely botched?

I've heard naye-eve-tay and naye-eve-a-tay

Fords pronunciation didn't come anywhere close

Keep in mind - i get aggravated that 'dived' or 'pleaded' are now accepted parts of the english language (one because they just don't sound right, but what was wrong with dove and pled?)

LOL, the Chili's picture is awesome for this thread

I'd rather have a guy who's playing basketball that thinks he's really good than a guy who questions his own ability

Agree or disagree with that statement?

Course, I don't want either kind of player - but that's the quote I heard.

Gotta keep your head up when you play soccer

Dunleavy deserved it.

Man, I can't even say a soccer ball in the face is the worst soccer injury I ever received :)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:25

I agree, you deserve worse :)

Problems with the NBA Draft (in reference to something earliers about hype and smoke) that are significant in my opinion

1. Agent influence not only on WHERE a player works out - but what sort of work out they do
2. The Combine is useless, no wunderlic type test, no requirement, guys can do whatever they want, whatever they don't want.
3. The emphasis on athleticism over skill, upside over ability
4. The One year rule (it should be two)

I agree with most of this. But it's interesting you say all of this is wrong with the draft, yet the guy you like the most - Drummond red flags on all of these problems. He shined in the measurements section. He diidn't workout against the other big men in those massive workouts, he is all athleticism zero skill and he was a freshman.

I understand why you like him, but in order to fix the draft i think first GMs, players, agents, fans, everyone has to realize what matters and what doesn't.

Actually, if you look closely,I haven't really stated an opinion on most players - and i stated that I didn't know much - the only guy i really don't want is Sullinger - too many people say he can't play the pick and roll defense.

The reason Drummond floats so badly up and down the draft board is a perfect example of what's wrong with the NBA draft.

Every year there are guys whose motor they question - whose guys they question about their dedication to basketball - here's an idea - figure out a way to test a guy (personality) - human psychology really isn't that tough to understand if you pay attention to what people say, how they say it, and how they answer some questions...create a wunderlic type test, and see how guys do, make it absoultely required.

Whens the last time you heard an NFL prospect passing on the combine, or saying they only want to do the measurables, they don't want to take the wunderlic or do the drills....come on man - it just doesn't happen.

My feelings on drummond are apathetic at best, the consensus is he has the most upside in the draft after davis, and the sixers are stuck in mediocrity, so would i mind if they took a risk on the biggest upside kid in the draft? Absoultely not, have i said i'd do anything to get him? No I haven't...i have no feel on this draft, it all feels like almost everyone is the same, but in different ways, there's no stand out, there's no oh boy, there's no emotional pull

And oh yeah - do away with the bench press - come up with something more basketball relevant - guys with arms that long have trouble lifting weights sometime

If you'd like to call me a liar regarding my comments about Drummond, go right ahead, you won't be the first person pulling up history to call me a liar this week (though hopefully you will not misintrepret what I said)

i don't recall 'loving' drummond - because i don't really love any one in this draft

Brian loves him though and most of you think we're the same people

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:36

Because upside is very important in the NBA. It's hard to find talent in the draft and at times you should be willing to overlook these problems if the guy has tremendous upside.

This isn't the NFL draft where they take a comprehensive look at a person's mentality and ask him questions like whether or not his mother was a whore.
A lot of NFL teams expect their 2nd round picks to be starters during their rookie years. They can pass over a guy with character issues because there will be plenty of prospects available that could contribute right away.

In the NBA you would be lucky to find a decent rotational player with a mid round pick.

This isn't the NFL draft where they take a comprehensive look at a person's mentality and ask him questions like whether or not his mother was a whore.

I'm well aware that it's not

But why not - nothing STOPS them from instituting these rules - did andrew luck say "I'm the number one pick, we all know it, so i'm not coming to your combine"

Seriously, dude was the prohibitive #1 pick TWO YEARS IN A ROW (just decided to go back to school for some reason - i raised my eyebrow at that in terms of dedication to football) - and he still jumped through the leagues hoops.

Andre Drummond, not guarnateed to go anywhere - refuses to jump through the hoops.

And I'm not saying none of it matters, I'm tired of people not getting that.

What I'm saying is that I feel the wrong things are weighted too heavy while other things are completely ignored.

EVERYTHING matters, but I feel not enough is done to screen draftees properely and that the wrong things are weighted.

Maybe it's because my team drafted two very atheltic guys who sucked to high heaven and had the basketball iq of a turd

Well, one problem is that people seem to overlook the fact that athleticism matters. Matters more than how many points a guy scored against shitty competition in college. Matters more than how much a junior playing against completely clueless freshman dominated a shitty conference as well.

If I'm running a franchise today, the first thing I'm doing is crossing every upper classmen off my list of potential picks in the first round. Then I'm crossing every average athlete or undersized big man. Then I'm crossing off everyone who would need to learn the most important aspect of the position he plays (like a shooting guard who can't shoot). then I'll start looking at college stats, once I have a list of guys who aren't wasting my time.

And I did not mean to imply that athleticism didn't matter - I just think it needs to be taken in the proper context...sometimes I think athleticism is the only thing that gets a player drafted and then they find out 'holy crap - he can't really play basketball'

man, youre really down on Turner. I can't really blame you, though. The good news is he's still on his rookie contract and he'll most likely be figured out by the FO by the time it expires.

The FO is ready to get rid of Iguodala because they feel Turner needs to 'grow' more.

I still don't know what they saw in the past two seasons with any consistency that makes that a smart move.

The FO has been "ready" to get rid of Iguodala for quite some time now. If they don't get rid of him, I'd think of it as a good sign that they're not so high on Turner. If they do get rid of him, I would pray to the old gods and the new that it addresses a serious need on this roster.
Anyway, I predict that if Lou is gone next year, Turner becomes the new Lou in that he takes away possessions from Jrue.

If Evan Turner is moved back to the bench, I'm a happy guy :)

I would be very surprised if Andre Iguodala heads to PCOM for training camp

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:28

How much does ability matter?
Turner, Hansbrough, and Laettner had great college careers but it didn't translate well in the NBA.

That depends on how you evaluate ability, which leads to another issue I have, but it's not just the NBA

Standardization of the basketball court and some of the rules. College football has some rules that vary, longer 'play clock' (though it's come down), the reception rule (is it still one foot instead of two) pass interference is only a 15 yarder I think, clock stoppage on the first down, but inherently, the general aspect of the game is the same...4 downs, 10 yards, same fields, same dimensions...

Let's not pretend that college basketball is something it isn't - the stars who go to college (and draw fans) are there to play in the NBA - plain and simple

1. Put the 3 point line in the right place - stop making questionable shooters look better than they are.
2. Fouls - six of them - not just in the big east - in every conference
3. Defense - none of this crappy zone stuff unless it would be allowed in the NBA

There are too many variations in the college game versus the NBA (in my opinion) to make a fair judgement of ability.

Which dovetails with the agents having too much power and deciding that a guy won't play in a 3 on 3 (let alone 5 on 5) work out with other draft prospects on the off chance it's showed up that maybe he really isn't as good as his college numbers show him when he's against better competition.

Ability matters, height matters, but much like sean bradley shouldn't have been drafted just because he was 7'6, a great college player doesn't always make a good nba player (hell, even the NFL makes mistakes, ala tim tebow, but they seem to make less and at least put prospects through REAL processes)

You're investing millions sometimes in these guys and you're letting the guy who gets 15% control what they do for you?


Stan reply to T McL on Jun 28 at 14:43

Comment of the day

Let me just be clear...aside from the bench press, I'm not saying eliminate things from the combine, I'm saying make it a real combine and not a dog and pony show where players can sit out just cause they want to.

The 'Harden for the #2 thing' seems to be on the bobcats side - i.e. Oklahoma City asks what Charlotte wants for #2, Charlotte says James Harden, Oklahoma City hangs up.

ALso reported that Charlotte turned down Derrick Williams from Minnesota for the #2

Can't blame minny for trying. Have to give some credit to Jordan if he had anything to do with the immediate dial-tone after the minnesota call.

Don't blame anyone for trying, don't blame charlotte for asking for harden - but see how it gets backwards - possibly - it's not OKC offering harden for #2 (which never made sense) but Charlotte saying 'you want #2, give us harden', that makes sense :)

I'm betting every team including New Orleans ahs made an offer for #2 (except that the hornets didn't use #1 as bait ;)

It's standard due dilligence if you feel a team might be willing to move a pick - give em a call and find out what they feel the pick is worth - or make an offer.

Some offers will leak out, some won't, I'm betting the sixers made the call too...


Off topic, but a good back and forth between ZL and Brand.

The Six reply to Ryan F on Jun 28 at 15:08

I would like to find a way to keep him in the form of a renegotiated contract. He has a lot to offer a team still.

This is the most interesting comment in it (about Dalembert)

Yeah. And when he was here [in Philadelphia], he always wanted to go somewhere else. Now I wonder if he wishes he was still with us, since he has been moved so many times.

Stan reply to Ryan F on Jun 28 at 15:10

SI.com: The draft is tomorrow, which means Andre Iguodala’s name is in every other trade rumor. Do you just ignore all of that?

Brand: Yeah, yeah — you just have to roll with it and see what happens. And you have to remember: It’s not always greener on the other side. I gotta talk to my friend Sammy D [Samuel Dalembert] about that.

SI.com: You heard he was traded to Milwaukee today, I assume …

Brand: Yeah. And when he was here [in Philadelphia], he always wanted to go somewhere else. Now I wonder if he wishes he was still with us, since he has been moved so many times.

Makes it sound like Iguodala wants out, no?

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 15:20

Yup. I don't blame him

I'm not sure I'd read that much into it, but I could see how you could

Could also be read as he's talking about the front office. Like they want a new toy, but odds are the return wouldn't help you as much as AI9. Or could just be a mixed metaphor from a Duke guy.

I think when he started his grass is always greener comment he had already moved on to the whole Dalembert thing, and that Iguodala wasn't part of it.

Just how i read it

Al Horford for the #2 overall pick?

If they really like Robinson, makes sense to me for the Hawks. Restart the clock on a similar player (meaning four years before he's making big money).

Don't see why the Bobcats would do it. Horford isn't going to carry them out of the lottery.

Sullinger falling 'like a rock'

He already jumps and runs like a rock, falling like one shouldn't be too hard.

Mark Jackson apparently got blackmailed by a stripper.

I like how they add in that he's a family man and an ordained minister.

Makes it more salacious, though the report I read pointed out that he wasn't a minister 'at the time' - like some how that matters

Guys need to pick their mistresses better -s trippers make bad mistresses

Never a good idea to leave a stripper with physical evidence of an affair.

Especially when as a famous NBA player you'd have much better options.

Seriously, high priced call girls (like 3 grand a pop) just don't talk as much as cheap strippers

Chad Ford just updated his mock: Moultrie to the Sixers, Ross to the Bucks at #14. That would bug me.

Hoopsworld is saying the Warriors would include Klay Thompson with the #7 pick for a SF. link. Name Iguodala as a target.

The issue (according to the source you hate) isn't the warriors willilngness to make the deal it's the sixers willingness not to take on Jefferson or Biedrins

However, maybe it's all a smoke screen to see who is available at 7

If Drummond is available - Brians gonna be screaming at the tv

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 16:44

I would pay to see a live steam of Brian's reaction to every draft pick.

Fortunately, I've got more pressing matters to be pissed about tonight. My reactions will probably be less severe than in years passed.

Sorry to hear it's still that bad

Worse, actually. but I'll be here for the live chat. A welcome distraction that hopefully won't raise my blood pressure to the level of "stroke."

Shoot, sorry to hear about that, hope it gets better

The Six reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 16:19

I would have to really consider that.

UTAH rumored to be willing to take on Mo Williams contract if he opts in (which he's already said he would do which is why the clippers are looking to get rid of him :) )

The last auction block Drummond in Philadelphia - 3rd Rd, 76th overall in the '89 draft - was also from the Big East Conference: Syracuse Orangemen running back Robert Drummond. He disappointed Buddy Ryan and the Eagles; lasted 3 seasons of not quite getting to the corner and turning it upfield; 36 career games, 187 yards, 3 TDs. Needless to say, the legacies of Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Jim Nance, Floyd Little, Larry Csonka and Joe Morris weren't threatened.

Key question prior to tonight's card game: Yeah, he can dunk like Dominique (well, maybe not THAT well), but does Andre Drummond have it in him to make Sixers fans forget those Huskies who have already served: Toby Kimball, Bruce Kuczenski, Donyell Marshall and Kevin Ollie?

Can you start commenting on Eagles blogs as well. I would love to read more of your football analysis.

Since you asked politely, no.

Watch your end punctuation.

wade missing the Olympics, opens up a spot for Iguodala?

Think he was probably making it anyway, should be a lock now.

I wouldn't think so...Iguodala brings nothing Wade does...Iguodala was on the team last year partly because a lot of guys were taking off, this year they have mostly the full compliment of big names, I think he might make it but I still think it's 50:50

Cause realisticaly - if you take 12 of the best 30 NBA players, you're going to win (the teams that didn't win were either coached badly (brown) or just made up of not the best talent, just the talent willing to go)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 16:42

Funny how you mention Brown. Most people blame the 04' disappointment on Iverson.

Yeah, well, in my personal estimation, based on 40 years of life experience, most people are stupid.

It's rather well established in various articles that brown refused to play certain players and that's probably why they lost

Guys I think Philly's pick will be between Terrence Ross, Terrence Jones, Arnette Moultrie, and Meyers Leonard.

My wild card pick is Jared Sullinger, don't be surprised to hear his name.

I've not seen any of the collegians play the game of basketball, ergo, I'm leavin' it all up to Mr. Thorn, hoping he plays it like Jack Nicklaus played the back nine at Augusta in '86 - - at age 46, 6 under par 30 (!) to again don the Green Jacket (besting Kite, Norman, et al). C'mon, Rod, you're not washed up. Tell Collins to zip it, and show the clawing climbers and the weasely whippersnappers a thing or two!

On an incredibly unrelated to the draft note but still interesting.

In 2 days, Scott Brooks becomes a coaching free agent barring any contract extension, both sides still reported to be far apart.

Both Portland and Orlando are still without coaches, and I wouldn't put it past sterling to can del negro to make a run at brooks (though no way sterling pays what brooks is worth, delnegero is the worst paid coach in the nba, by a lot)

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 17:38

Not Scotty's best coaching job in the finals.

Yeah, you're right
6 games should define his entire coaching career to date
Has a younger team ever made the nba finals?

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 17:46

There you go again...where did I say that those 6 games should define his coaching career??? Just stating that I felt he was outcoached.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 17:52


I'd put it past Sterling to make a run at Brooks. He's a cheapskate owner that doesn't like to spend money on his players, much less coaches. The reason he hasn't canned Vinny Freaking Del Negro is for one reason: He's cheap. It would be stunning if Sterling trumped, and he'd have to way overpay, OKC for Scott Brooks.

Also, I don't really think Brooks has a ton of leverage. Sure, I'd like to eek every dollar out and maybe get that up to 3 years/12 mil, but is he going to leave Oklahoma City? That team is not going to skip a beat without Scott Brooks. If Portland throws him a Godfather offer, you say, "So long Scott, good luck in Portland" while having your pick of every coaching free agent out there. Does Brooks think he's worth more than that?

You're overstating the value of the olkahoma city job (i think) and i also think people might wonder if maybe bennett is being a cheapskate?

Think about it - this guy took your young team to the finals and you run him off - what coach worth their salt wants that job? (I mean aside from the carpetbagger who went back to college?)

"The N.B.A. and its players union are moving toward a settlement in the so-called Bird rights case that has temporarily clouded the future of the Knicks’ Jeremy Lin, according to two people briefed on the talks.

The most likely outcome is that Lin and three other players — including the Knicks’ Steve Novak — will retain some form of Bird rights, as affirmed last week by an arbitrator, according to one of the people briefed on the talks. But the talks were continuing Thursday, and the details of a settlement remained in flux. "

&#%!, This lessens the chance of Lin coming to Philadelphia :(

Yes, instead of 0 it's now i

I get the sense this will be yet another boring Sixers draft where they stand pat. I hope this is the last do nothing Sixers draft.

I really do not like any of the consensus names at 15 if Ross is gone. The Sixers have the flexibility and need to make some sort of move... but they are complacent.

Ryan F reply to tk76 on Jun 28 at 18:02

I don't expect anything from the Sixers more than safe. I an still incredibly excited for this draft. I can't remember a draft with so much uncertainty.

tk76 reply to Ryan F on Jun 28 at 18:06

Unfortunately, I don't get excited about other teams making moves.

So according to a late report, Ray Allen would consider Phoenix

if he'd consider phoenix maybe he'd consider philadelphia

im not seeing things right?
kendall marshall?


Yeah, don't see that happening. I do like Kendall Marshall though, just not with our current roster.

Hearing they're talking about playing Holiday off the ball more next year. RT @MIKESMD77 what is the logic behind sixers taking Marshall?

What? Isn't that contrary to everything we've heard doug say? Also if he was to play off the ball, I'd assume it would be to open up touches for ET/Iggy. Bad logic on DX part imo. But maybe they know something we don't, doubt it though.

I knew the Sixers might throw a curve ball and defy any and all expectations, but this is too much for me to handle. Marshall? Seriously? Is there some kind of trade in the works?

I like Marshall quite a bit, but i think he will only be successful on the right team. The Sixers, right now, are NOT the right team. Wow, he wasn't on my radar at all.

eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 19:11

If they draft Kendall Marshall, I'm giving up and moving to Morristown and taking out Brian's trash, walking his dog, and standing in his kitchen guarding his frigde from no one for cold beers while he watches league pass every other night and Sixers games 3 rooms away, and he just gives score updates as I bring the next cold one. Talk about F me!

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