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Sixers Tread Water In Draft

If they are rebuilding these are perfectly fine picks. If they are not, these were bad decisions. It's that simple. We should find out soon enough. Their decisions regarding Brand, Lou, Hawes, Meeks, Allen and Iguodala will say a lot about their direction.

So you want to rebuild around a tweener 3/4 and a big who doesn't defend? I don't see these as good moves if you're rebuilding, at all. If you're rebuilding, then you should've traded Iguodala to get up high enough to get Drummond.

I agree that Iguodala should've been traded for a high lottery pick and a guy with considerable upside (like Drummond). That doesn't mean that they won't rebuild though. Iguodala can still be traded for a talented relatively young player or future pick/picks.

Also there is no proof that they actually could trade Iguodala for Drummond. Just speculation from guys who may or may not have sources.

Iguodala can still be traded for a talented relatively young player or future pick/picks.

And when he's not, when he's traded for Al Jefferson or Rudy Gay, will you still be positive and found ways to spin it? The sixers PR department should hire you

I'm not trying to spin anything. I am just going with facts. Not trading someone for a pick does not equal not rebuilding.

If they sign a guy like Jamal Crawford i will be the first one to bash them as hard as possible.

then you should've traded Iguodala to get up high enough to get Drummond.

The assumption is that you could, and my belief is that the way the draft played out was rather unexpected, I think once GSW saw who was available their pick wasn't available, I think it's possible that the Toronto pick was available, but even that isn't guaranteed.

I don't disagree that what the sixers did last night doesn't make any sense no matter how much ostriches want to try and justify drafting another duplicated piece of pieces we already have that are great at that kind of game (Iguodala) or mediocre (Turner). Maybe they just wanted a set of three players that all do the same thing at different levels?

It's hard to muster any emotion for anything this franchise does until it seems to me that they aren't treading water (as you said). Treading water is boring, and they've been doing it for close to a decade

Don't think these draft choices say anything definite about Turner, Iggy, or Thad other than at least one of them probably has to go. When it comes to making a deal this summer, Turner just might be the easiest of the three to trade and the team has the most financial incentive to trade Thad. Maybe they already have such a deal mostly negotiated.

Regardless of what they are planning, though, one has to wonder if this player evaluation team has a fixation for a certain physical type of player. When in doubt, this general type of player attracts them instinctually as the best player available. Five out of the last eight initial first round picks for them have been small forwards and only Carney is no longer with them.

Who's the fifth? Harkless, Thad, Iguodala, Carney (Thabo actually), who's the fifth?

Buke reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 10:14

Turner. He was more or less a small forward in college. He pretty much had the same size and body type as Ig and Carney even if he didn't have their athleticism (or even their level of 3pt shooting for that matter).

Makes sense.

It's quite simple really. They want the next Kobe. Or Wade. Or Lebron. And they think with enough repetition we might stumble onto him. Haven't found him yet. And they won't find him until they realize they need a higher pick.

buke reply to Xsago on Jun 29 at 10:54

I think you might be on to something! I never thought of it that way.

Sort of like what NBA teams were doing for about a dozen years beginning in the nineties: continuing to draft African centers in the first round until they got the next Hakeem. After Yinka Dare, Michael Olowokandi, Desagana Diop, and Sear Sene they finally came to the conclusion that Hakeem was extremely unique even among very tall Africans.

If that's what they're doing, it's still pretty stupid

Where do you see they gave up next year's first?

I have to imagine that is heavily protected in the Top 20 and at best simply gives the Heat the ability to swap picks down the road.

The Sixers helped them as much as they helped us by limiting the guaranteed first round contract on their cap.

It's lottery protected the next three years - nothing like "top 20" protected.

lottery protected the next 3 years if the heat dont have it by 2015 it turns into a 2nd round pick in 2015 and 2016

I can probably sum this up in simpler terms.

If they're going to rebuild, they should've traded up.

If they're going to try to improve the team, they should've addressed at least one of their needs.

The did neither.

I can't wait to see Jrue/ET/Dre/Harkless/Thad or Jrue/Dre/Harkless/Thad/Moultrie.

South Broad on Jun 29 at 10:23

For those that know, what does/will Moultrie give you different than what Lavoy Allen gave you last season?

-they both prefer jumpers
-they both aren't known as shot blockers

He isn't as strong as Lavoy.

Have a feeling Lavoy might be gone, honestly.

South Broad reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 10:35

Was kind of what I was thinking, that if he's not even as strong as Lavoy Allen then he isn't going to give you anything on the low blocks, instead preferring to shoot mid-range jumpers. Vucevic is already more than willing to provide that.

Also makes one wonder if they feel they are going to have a hard time keeping Lavoy so they went ahead and got his possible replacement. In that regard, I'm not that averse to the pick -- while on the other hand if they feel they've secured Brand's replacement we're all in trouble and they basically just ushered a mid-teens pick to the team everyone is trying to catch in the Heat.

Anyone know who/what team determines at what point or which year the Heat receive that pick?

That would just be foolish if Lavoy is gone, make the qualifying offer (have they yet?) and sign him to an affordable contract. While I"m not all 'oh my god lavoy is awesome' like a lot of people after a 7 game series, he's worth a couple years and a couple million, with a front court as barren as the sixers moultrie doesn't solve much (if anything) let alone fill the void at both the 4 and 5 the sixers have.

Letting Lavoy go would be a bad basketball decision, and financial too

Allen and Moultrie (from the little that i've seen of Moultrie) aren't that similar.

Moultrie is a very good athlete, who can do very well as a roller in the P&R (the thing the team has been missing the most on the offensive end). He has a pretty good handle for his size. He also gets lost on rotations and can't defend the post well.

Allen is a quiet kid. Moultrie has had issues with previous teammates and coaches.

Moultrie is actually a lot like Speights. Just a little bit more mobile.

I liked the Harkless pick originally. But once I read that Thorn wants to transition him to play power forward in the NBA, I became disappointed. If we're going to draft a 3/4 tweener, then we should have drafted Perry Jones. Another player who is very raw, but who also has a very high ceiling.

I am not a fan at all of the Moultrie pick. He reminds me too much of Marreese Speights. He can shoot and rebound, but has little post game and can't rotate on defense. I feel like every single big man the Sixers draft MUST be a shooter. I wanted them to take Festus Ezeli or Fab Melo, big guys who can rebound and defend. Unfortunately neither guy has much range, so of course the Sixers avoid them.

buke reply to Dwight on Jun 29 at 10:34

If you watch footage of Moultrie, he looks like a pretty aggressive offensive rebounder at least. He did lead the SEC in rebounding and averaged 10.5 a game so rebounding is obviously a big part of his game. He doesn't block many shots but Love and Blake Griffin don't either.

We'll have to see what happens with Perry Jones, but the fact that he slipped to #28 after two years of college when he was rated as a top 5 to 10 pick during his first year out of high school shows that the Sixers had plenty of company in feeling that his potential "upside" didn't overcome his risk. It is interesting that he was picked by a team who, at least for the moment, didn't need much if anything from him.

Now that I have killed most of the teams/picks, I'll note that I really like PHI grabbing Harkless and (especially) Moultrie.

If they believed they were the best talents at those spots, I don't have a problem with the picks. Pick what u think are the best talents and figure out your roster during the summer. Don't worry about mis-matched pieces. I think they will attempt to do that this summer. Whether they make the right choices in the off season is another story

Obviously the sixers have a plan, it's just not clear to us peons, nor should they bother to explain it, they've earned the right to do whatever they want and have us support them, look how well they continue to build teams that make the playoffs.

So if they trade a first round pick that only has lottery protections (top 14) for the next 3 years, then obviously they have faith that they won't have to convey that pick to the heat, right, I mean why would you do that for the 27th pick in a draft otherwise?

FKD215 reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 13:03

"Obviously the sixers have a plan..." This is what I want to know, too. Whenever people who are supposed to be reasonably intelligent do things that seem wildly off-base, i have to ask, what do they know that I don't, what is the logic that I'm not privy to? Maybe this fits a plan -- what is it? The Harkless pick seems pretty nonsensical on a team with so many SFs who can't shoot. Maybe they've got solid offers for Iguodala, Turner and/or Thad? I'm hoping...

(Um, I was being mostly sarcastic, I thought that came across)

eddies' heady's on Jun 29 at 10:41

Anyone know the reasons why Moultrie transferred from UTEP after his sophomore season? Was it because of Tony Barbee going to Auburn and Tim Floyd coming in? Just wondering because he got playing time under Barbee from what I remember.

spencer for hire on Jun 29 at 10:43

Collins has a knack for turning players with offensive skills into good team defenders. Moultrie fits that mold of a long athlete that will have to learn on the job, like Thad did.

As far as taking bigs that can shoot, the strength of this teams future is perimeter defenders that aren't snipers and to play them together one of our bigs must have that skill.

S.Marion has had a pretty long and solid career without ever being a great shooter and when he was drafted out of U.N.L.V. I didn't know a whole lot about him. If Harkness can be that kind of player I am happy with the pick.

As far as next years #1, do the sixers want any more youth added to this core now? Getting our p.f. in house this year fills every position with a young player and now it will be interesting to see which veterans replace Iggy and Elton in the next couple of years.

Collins has a knack for turning players with offensive skills into good team defenders.


spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 10:53

S.Hawes, Thad and Vuce at times last year. Hawes, for all his shortcomings, had his moments.

Well since I disagree with two of your assertions of guys getting 'better' at defense (Hawes and #8, you can't even judge if collins improved him defensively as it was his rookie year), and you want to give credit to collins that's fine.

Paraphrasing Aaron Sorkin on Thad Young

You know how Thad Young got better at defense? He decided to

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:01

It just seems Collins isn't into the "defensive" one end of the court players, whether that is the right approach or not is up for debate.

Vuce over Faried and Spieghts over McGee are two examples that our front office seems to agree. Even this year Ezeli or Melo could of been taken.

Well - that's a different point - I can't give him credit for 'turning defensive players' around the way others do - of course i don't agree that he love Iguodala either, so I tend to disagree with folk on most things.

I think last nights draft was irrelevant - the sixers are still mediocre and drafted nothing that will escape them from mediocrity...they made no moves yet to escape mediocrity...maybe they will make moves that at least demonstrate a clue that something needs to be done (first easy step is to amnesty brand)...I guess from what I had read and heard about new ownership I thought some changes would happen...but a year later, all the reasons I had for hope are dashed against the shores of stupidity

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:26

It's unbelievable how much stock you put into coaching when it has anything to do with Collins' weaknesses and how easily you not only downplay, but dismiss it when it's a strength. Collins time and again put Thad in a position to succeed on defense by utilizing his strengths. Turned him into a weapon on defense, honestly.

And it's unbelievable when a coach gets credit for the natural progression of a player through the NBA


It's not like Young did tons of things better this year (in fact his most important weakness, rebounding, took a step back)

So Is collins responsible for him rebounding worse as well - or only responsible for the good things

Collins can't ONLY be responsible for improvements - he must be responsible for failures as well - or you are doing the same damn thing you accuse me of doing.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 16:05

I'm not doing anything you are doing. For example, I can readily admit Collins is very much responsible for Jrue and the teamn's bad year on the offensive end. Your Anti-Collins agenda make it seem clear that another coach could have made the team a whole lot better this year. That's not true.

Also, there is no "natural progression" when it comes to Thad finally being utilized properly on defense. He has always given 100 percent effort on that end of the floor, but had zero feel, often running around like a chicken with his head cut off, overhelping, etc. Now with a coach who emphasizes defense, he covers as much ground as anybody in the league in the halfcourt, and effectively at that. It's a Baylessian argument to say, "Thad Young is better because he finally decided to play defense."

Even though this point you brought off was off-topic because the original post was talking about team defense, Thad will never be a good rebounder. Gregg Popovich doesn't make him a good rebounder. Phil Jackson doesn't make him a good rebounder. And yes, Doug Collins doesn't make him a good rebounder.

What Collins did was properly utilize his speed to blow up pick and rolls, take charges, and rotate to shooters. And yes, he should get a good amount of credit for that, as should Thad.

. Your Anti-Collins agenda make it seem clear that another coach could have made the team a whole lot better this year. That's not true.

That's incorrect, and demosntrates you don't read what I write, just assume you know what I write.

I never said anyone could make the team a whole lot better, what I've said is that COLLINS DOESNT MAKE THE TEAM a whole lot better than it was when Cheeks or Dileo was the coach.

If you can't see the difference between the two principles - I can't help you - but I NEVER said anyone would be a better coach - I said BFD collins coached the sixers to the 8 seed, mo cheeks and tony dileo did that.

I stopped reading after that comment because it's clear you DONT know the points I'm making - so why bother?

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 16:41

Lucky for you that you stopped reading the comments there. Color me skeptical...

Color me not caring what you believe

Since it's obvious you either don't read or comprehend what I write :)

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 17:12

I read how you said Thaddeus Young became a very good defensive player all by himself and a better (emphasis) team defender because he just decided it was time, an argument Skip Bayless just used with LeBron James. Everyone read that.

What nobody got to read was an on-topic response when I had the gall to call you on it.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 16:48

I mean if you want to just leave it at Thad Young's "progression" into being a very good team defender, fine.

Oh, and you do realize Cheeks/DiLeo coached two different teams, right? Those guys had Andre Miller and Sammy when Collins has Jrue and Hawes. They aren't the same situations.

JW reply to Rich on Jun 29 at 18:40

Think you're the second person that has pointed this out to him today and i guess since it doesn't suit his agenda he just ignores that *fact* ... oh well

I guess you are referring to Thad, but really the Sixers almost never draft for offense, instead opting for defense and athleticism. Not sure how you can make a habit of turning offensive players into good defenders without having good offensive players in the first place.

but really the Sixers almost never draft for offense, instead opting for defense and athleticism.

In two of the last three years they drafted Speights and #8

Not sure athleticism or defense can be used to describe either of them...the word never is a dangerous one, you shouldn't use it.

Hence the word almost :). But i agree i shouldn't use such strict words. It doesn't change the fact that over the last decade the majority of draftees were athletes with defensive potential.

And Speights was a pretty good athlete before his injuries.

That's great, you said defense and athleticism

and #8 has neither

I just feel like the Sixers needed to get a true big man to play center. Someone who can really control the paint defensively. There some late round first picks that had those players, Fab Melo and Festus Ezeli. Unfortunately the Sixers took neither. Unless the Sixers make a trade to get true center, I don't see them making the next step.

spencer for hire reply to Dwight on Jun 29 at 10:51

One thing the playoffs showed is teams playing small with Bosh and Garnett both playing a lot at the center spot.

Lavoy and Moultrie fit that mold and it seems certain trends by succesful teams are copied. Lavoy looked more comfortable guarding at the 5 last year and Vuce is definitely more of a 5.

Collins trapping defense just got a lot more athletic and long and should be better this season.

This year was the exception, not the norm. Most years, you need a good defensive front court to win the championship. I like Brand, but Hawes has to be one of the worst centers in NBA history. I honestly don't think I've seen a player as bad as him.

The Six reply to Dwight on Jun 29 at 12:24

I have to think they make a run at McGee.


Can't get him, restricted free agent, knucklehead, maturity issues, on and on and on

I expect a run for a guy like humphries before javale mcgee

I mean humphries averaged a double double last year, and of course the jersey sixer connection with Billy King - can do a sign and trade to make sure humphries gets that extra year...sixers can help out jersey by absorbing the contract into the elton brand amnesty giving jersey a huge trade exception.

Everyone wins

Except, you know, the sixers, in the second round of the playoffs even if they make it that far

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:42

RFA status should not be a concern. Denver does not have a lot of room if I looked at their roster/cap space correctly (and some on this site are probably more adept at that analysis than me).

Maturity, propensity to be a knuckle-head...sure, I'll give you that. But this team needs what he offers. I wanted Drummond - they didn't get him. Fill the position already.

I would be happy if they made a run at McGee.

I thought for sure they would take Zeller at 15 last night...I was 99% sure that was the pick. Then Harkless...then my stomach fell because these geniuses are going to resign Hawes. 3 years, 30 mil. Something like that. Ugh...

spencer for hire reply to ryano on Jun 29 at 10:56

When Thorn said Zeller was too much like Vuce that should also pertain to Spencer, wouldn't you say.

I had a similar feeling but then resigned myself to not getting too bent out of shape until it actually happens.

If they sign Lavoy (whose demeanor hints that he'd probably remain happier close to home in his routine and with his previous coaches) then they'll be Allen/Vuc/Brand/Moultrie with Thad sprinkled at the 4. That's not great, but at least it doesn't have Spencer Hawes.

buke reply to ryano on Jun 29 at 11:07

Don't think you should make that inference. While I think Collins may have liked certain parts of Hawes' game, his softness and slowness (particularly on the defensive end) tend to make me think they will look elsewhere. There are a fair number of centers available this summer and even someone like Asik would be an upgrade defensively. They already have another center in Vucevic who may be able to do a reasonable imitation of Hawes' offensive contributions while still having potential to improve upon Hawes' weaknesses.

As the great poets once said

You have to laugh, you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:07

Brian's earlier point about Moultrie being good cutting off the ball is similar to what Tk brought up about Drummond last week. He could be a real good fit with our current perimeter group and could serve a Favors type role for Jrue.

Can shotblocking be improved on at the pro level? Is it just an effort thing?

A lot of shot blocking is instinct, there's things you can get better at I think (like not goaltending so much Sammy, but Sammy instinctively is a great shot blocker). Knowing WHEN to attempt the block versus boxing your guy out or staying with your guy is important, but I don't think the actual 'ability' is all that improveable.

Are there a lot of guys who were bad shot blockers in college who suddenly became good ones in the NBA? I don't know, the reasons for the lack of blocked shots is vital to know if it can improve, I'm sure there are some things that can be improved at the next level (with work) but some things just can't...there's an inherent talent/ability/instinct that i think is vital for it - not sure yo ucan teach that

While it now seems Collins will last longer than 2+ seasons (his first time in his NBA career, good job Doug, maybe you'll get a whole 10 full seasons under your belt as an NBA coach and earn all the praise you get as a coach, though your coaching resume doesn't deserve it), I'm already pretty sure it's not good for the sixers long term championship aspirations...

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:12

Its kinda ironic that after moving Spieghts and sorta liking the "little things" Lavoy did well that Moultrie is here to come under Collins' skin.

On the plus side
Brians least favorite source was exposed last night as either knowing nothing or just being a tool for someone who works for the franchise for floating bs without getting any solid facts :)

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 14:57

are you talking about the realgm guy? There's something wrong with him, it's amazing that people read his tidbits as gospel. I think he loves the internet adulation, which is just plain weird.

Yes, yes I am (and a few more have come out of the woodwork recently) and I believe at one point, at one time, he did have a connection, but he lost it, and instead of just admitting it he cobbles together what's readily out there, sprinkles in his own guesses and makes it 'inside info'.

What's interesting is there was someone else, whose screen name I forgot, who did have some inside info for a time, and then he told us he lost it, it coincided with something else that had happened so I was able to deduce (and he admitted) that his source was in the training staff, and thus most of his info was just injury related :)

spencer for hire on Jun 29 at 11:17

Do you guys feel that Lou is definitely coming back? There were a lot of Lou type of guys in last nights 2nd round that they passed on.

And can he be gotten for 6 mpy.?

I personally have not yet felt Lou was coming back at all, but that might have been more wishing and hoping than believing.

As much as the whole 'Iguodala is in the way of Turner' thing seems to be a drum beating thing, one could argue that Lou is also in the way of Turner as he's the 'second team scorer' who always has the ball.

I think some team will see Lou, be enamored by him leading a team in scoring from the bench, think he can be a point guard, and over pay him...he'll get a contract the size of Thaddeus Youngs, and hopefully the sixers are smart enough to know he isn't worth that much

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:31

I agree with all of that and think if we got Ross, he would of eventually started and Evan could of filled Lou's role. Did we become a more traditional team last night or am I missing something?

I'm not sure how the sixers would have become a more traditional team last night, if they had gotten Ross, who can play the 'traditional' role of the shooting guard (scoring points as his best asset as opposed to Evan Turner whose best asset is rebounding), they might have been more traditional, but Harkless is like the Michael Keaton guy in Multiplicity, you know the one, the one who likes pizza and calls him mike...a copy of a copy, and you know how copies degrade right?

I think the goal of the sixers is to have Evan fill bigger shoes than Lou, and I don't think Evan COULD fill Lou's role, Lou's primary role is scoring off the bench (and drawing fouls for some reason he's the only one who did it well, drawing fouls seemed anathema to everyone else), and Turner hasn't really shown he can do that yet.

I think because he was the #2 pick the sixers are putting too much faith and belief in Turner, call it 'evidence of things not seen' (there i am ripping off sorkin again), while the visual evidence doesn't show the team shoudl be handed over to him.

I don't think the sixers became more traditional, or better, last night, and my gut (which is evidence of things not seen but has a history of being right) tells me, this is just the first step in the sixers getting 'not better' this off season

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:55

If Harkless is Nucioni's replacement and Moultrie is Hawes' replacement than the next move should be dealing with the Lou/Meeks dynamic. Looking at the shooting guard unrestricted free agents there aren't a lot of good options and using the midlevel probably would be a bad idea now.

Gerald Green is the only interesting name and I don't even know if he can guard s.g.'s .

Ray Allen is pretty interesting, and if he'd consider Phoenix why wouldn't he consider Philadelphia?

spencer for hire reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 29 at 12:04

Derek, a very good article. How do you see a Moultrie/Vuce combo working together and if you had to start a team would you rather have Moultrie and Vuce or Melo and Sullinger?

Melo and Sullinger. The lack of a real shot blocker really worries me.

Well that Moultrie part was sure depressing, thanks dude ;)

eddies' heady's on Jun 29 at 11:55

If what Thorn said is really going to be the plan with Harkless (him being an eventual 4), then it's just more of the same with this front office and franchise.

Wanted to turn Iguodala into a shooting guard - fail
Wanted to make Lou into a point guard - fail
Wanted Carney to be a three point threat - fail
Still want Thad to masquerade as a 4 - an 8 mil non-competing bid fail
Still want Turner to masquerade as a shooting guard - major fail

I may have left some out....but Harkless either better get on a heck of a protein diet or learn how to shoot a whole lot better so he can be a stretch 4.

Another stretch four who doesn't stretch anything. These guys are brilliant.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 12:08

One can only hope that whomever replaces Thorn in the next year or so will decide to clean house of the rest of the leftovers. DiLeo and Witte have hung around way too long to have pretty much accomplished nothing.

I read they're skimping on summer league, right? Orlando but not Vegas. Makes sense.

Hey - at least:

1. They're going to a summer league
2. And not splitting a team with another team (was it the nets)

And think about all the excitement of watching Lavoy, Voose, Harkness, Moultire and various undrafted free agents who won't make the team run up and down the court when no defense i played....WOO HOO

I'm not upset with the Harkless pick. I wasn't enamored with Zeller or Sullinger. I think Harkless could come off the bench and provided solid defense and rebounding at the 3 and the 4. In 5 or 6 years from now he can hopefully develop into a Shane Battier.

The Moultrie trade was ridiculous. Why give up a potential 15-17 pick for a guy that was drafted #27? The only way this makes sense is if they think Moultrie was worth of the #15 overall pick or if they don't see themselves making the playoffs in the next 2 years.

eddies' heady's reply to Stan on Jun 29 at 12:19

I wouldn't say I was enamored with Zeller either, but I believe he will do well on the next level because his post moves and footwork are already refined. Has a nice baby hook that he goes to often also.

But touching on what you said after that, if Harkless does develop into a Battier, what have you really obtained or accomplished as far as team goals when after year 6 you have nothing more than an adequate defender who can 'maybe' hit an occasional three? Like where are you getting yourselves up the ascension ladder by only ending up with a Battier-type after 5-6 years of grooming and developing him?

The Moultrie trade was even more ridiculous when you consider they not only gave up a possible #15-#17 but also a middle 2nd round pick in #45 to get him.

"The only way this makes sense is if they think Moultrie was worth of the #15 overall pick "

Considering where he was going in mocks (and their draft board was similar), this is exactly what they were thinking.

Although I agree that it would have been much preferable to trade up... I'm not at all seeing how you can spin Harkness as a shortsighted win now move. That sounds like you are trying to reconstruct the pick within the preconceived framework you (and many others) believe is Collins mindset.

Harkness is more raw than any first round pick the Sixers have made in a while. More raw than Thad was, who at least had some refined post moves coming out. IMO the Harkness pick has zero impact on their moves this summer since they won't expect PT from him next season beyond spot minutes in the second qtr and blowouts.

a few interesting things Thorn said during the press conference yesterday.

Harkins shoots the ball better than Thad(not according to college statistics, maybe they think his jump shot will be easier to work with)?

Elton brand is on the last legs of his career. Sure we all know this, but its weird for a team president to say this out loud.

Says when he worked out for the Sixers he made 37/50 three pointers. "When you watch him play his shot is fine, he just needs repetition. We think he's going to be a very good shooter."

Lets hope this is true.

At this point in time, I trust Derek more than Thorn, Thorn has an agenda...

The most glaring problem is his jump shot, however, and it's something that is going to take considerable effort to correct. His footwork and balance are inconsistent, something he's going to have to correct to really see consistent results. He also struggles to shoot off the dribble, something that is also going to further hamper his dribble-drive game until it's improved.

eddies' heady's reply to ojr107 on Jun 29 at 12:12

they think Turner needs just repetition too, well at least some of his supporters do, maybe management hasn't come out and said that, I may be getting it confused

Although I agree that it would have been much preferable to trade up... I'm not at all seeing how you can spin Harkness as a shortsighted win now move. That sounds like you are trying to reconstruct the pick within the preconceived framework you (and many others) believe is Collins mindset.

Harkness is more raw than any first round pick the Sixers have made in a while. More raw than Thad was, who at least had some refined post moves coming out. IMO the Harkness pick has zero impact on their moves this summer since they won't expect PT from him next season beyond spot minutes in the second qtr and blowouts.

It can easily be spun as a bad move, no matter what the long term plan is...saying you want him to be a PF in the NBA when you already have one player you call a PF who really isn't, that's pretty bad too...it's easy to spin this as a bad move

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:13

I don't know why Thorn said that. If Harkness isn't Iggy's eventual replacement than I will be pissed. I feel Iggy will be back but if a big scorer is gotten for him now Harkness may be able to get 15 to 25 minutes right away, in a limited role.

Spin, pure and simple, it's thorns job to spin things as positively as possible at all times, much like it's doug collins job to make everyone believe everyone loves everyone even if they don't really.

Face it, as fans we don't know half of what's going on, public statements are a mixture of half truth, spin, and a little bit of truth sprinkled in, but enough people believe every word as truth that it works, and then 3 years later, no one remembers that it was all bs when the kid is traded for sam young

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:42

I did not say it was a good move.

To those who think Tony Dileo is useless, unable to see past a year or two, please recall how long he's been with the franchise, learn about his history, and factor in that just because he makes suggestions, that they aren't always taken (you know, like NOT drafting Larry Hughes)

If you give DiLeo credit for all the misses and ignore all the hits, you're just sitting there with your agenda and trying to make a point that isn't valid

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:16

Why do you think he wouldn't want our G.M. job? Do he and Collins have a bad relationship?

Because I think the Wojo article a couple weeks ago was accurate, and no one wants a GM job where you aren't the decision maker, the next sixers GM (at this time) is a puppet with Collins wrinkly old hand up your ass telling you what to say and do.

Who wants that job?

It's more probably that Collins doesn't want Dileo to have the job because, well, he's a better talent evaluator and probably could do a better job making trades than Collins could (oh yeah, he does have experience coaching and also took the mediocre team to a playoff loss, which collnis would have done if Rose hadn't messed up his ACL)

Tony DiLeo would rather have the worst GM job in basketball than openly say he wants the sixers job.

That's awesome

And whether or not a coach 'loses the team' is irrelevant if said coach has ownership eating out of the palm of his hand, the players just get sent away while the coach skates free, able to place any blame on former players.

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:28

I remember reading how Deleo wanted to watch his kids play ball and such and thought being close to home would help him do that.

It is probably more on Collins than. After how he successfully coached here I think he could do well as a g.m. .

collins wrinkly old hand reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 21:00

where do i apply for the job where i get collins' wrinkly old hand up my ass? i am lonely

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:29

That's kind of my point with DiLeo. He's been here way too long and has had input on drafting mediocre guy after mediocre guy that don't mesh and fit with each other.

I'm not ignoring all the so-called 'hits' he's had, I'm just giving attention to those 'hits' haven't led us to anything of substance. Anybody could have scored on a pick or two or three, the probabilites are in your favor when you've been with the same franchise for around 20 years.

My deal is if most of us were fed up with Snider and wanted him to jump off the bridge, why keep tossing out a life vest to one of his right hand men and leftovers?

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:38

"If you give DiLeo credit for all the misses and ignore all the hits, you're just sitting there with your agenda and trying to make a point that isn't valid"

Couldn't we just substitute Collins for DiLeo here and flip this back at you?

There's evidence for Dileos credit, there's assumption for giving Collins credit

He's a guy who was so great a coach he never lasted more than 2+ seasons at any job before this one

Reports of a power grab behind the scenes from a reputable reporter demonstrate that he's more about his ego than the franchise

If Derrick Rose doesn't tear an ACL, if Noah doesn't do down, he's just another sixer coach who gets to the first round and loses

Like Tony Dileo
Like Mo Cheeks

Different roster, same out come, hovering around 500 and losing in the playoffs without a real chance of contending (and honestly, you were one of many questioning his coaching decisions during games all season, or did you forget that)

Collins has done nothing in 2 years to prove to me he's any better than Tony Dileo or Mo Cheeks

It's all about the result - the result is mediocre and barely a playoff team

Except Collins coached so well he blew a big division lead early in the season and ended up in third place

So I guess if he gets credit for everything he should get credit for being unable to even secure second place in his divsion?

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 13:09

Is it really assumption when Thad Young turns into a good pick and roll defender?

Is it really assumption when the team is one of the top defenses in the whole league?

As for the ego/franchise thing, I'd argue that it's the exact opposite. The franchise has been so fucked up for years, and for two years they've given him absolute slop to trot out there hoping he'd make caviar out of it, he maybe feels that it'd be better if he did have more input for, you know, the franchise's sake. Considering what the franchise has provided him with since he was hired and not showing any desire to improve upon it, he probably looks at it like 'how can I do any worse than what they're doing?'. You know, sort of like us fans feel we can do better and know more than the tards that are currently employed.

Sure, I questioned his coaching decisions, and would question any coaches in-game decisions, that's just the nature of the beast. Doesn't minimize the overall job he was able to pull off with what he had to work with, which you often conveniently ignore in your diminishing of Doug.

Not sure if you will answer this honestly as you didn't a week or so ago but - did Collins have a better or worse roster than Cheeks/DiLeo by not having Sam Dalembert - instead Spencer Hawes - and by not having a true floor general in Andre Miller - instead a young, green Jrue Holiday?

If I recall correctly, your take last week was that Collins had a better roster than those other two coaches just because he had two years of a on the downside Elton Brand, which I find preposterous. Hawes and Jrue over Sammy and Miller, and just add Brand and it's a better roster? Really?

I agree with you that it's about the result and they're a mediocre playoff team but aren't you, again, ignoring what the head coach was given to work with? Like, you're laying all the blame at his feet and pushing aside that he had your favorite phrase of misfit toys to work with?

And you're referencing blowing a big division lead but turning a blind eye to the early season easy schedule that padded said lead to which you argued endlessly that it would all even out as the season went on, no?

Hmm....the best on the court off season for the sixers probably looks something like this (with in realism)

Kris Humphries for like 4 years
Ray Allen for the MLE - 3 years (come on - if he's considering Phoenix, at least he can win a few more games in Philly and show up the Celtics)
Hope #8 matures and can be a starter
Keep Lavoy Allen
Put Turner on the bench where he belongs

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:41

If everybody is back, except Hawes and Meeks, who do they target next offseason when Brand is off the books? K.Martin could be a good fit.

Now see - now you went and ruined my positivity.

If Hawes is back I won't have anywhere to talk sixers :(

spencer for hire on Jun 29 at 12:45

Brian, what is your take on Sullinger wearing the green and white?

I don't think theyll have to give up the first rounder for a couple of years at least, if it's Miami's choice of when they get it they won't want the extra guaranteed contract. I'm fine with the Moultrie trade, while not deep on superstars this draft was regarded as one of the deepest in years. Moultrie reminds me of Darrell Arthur more than he reminds me of Speights.

At some point, when you are treading water, you either have to get somewhere, get rescued, or your drown.

I'm not sure the sixers are going anywhere, I doubt anyone is going to rescue them, which just leaves drowning.


Wouldn't it be awesome to read something like this in a Philadlephia Newspaper, with Thorn as the source?

He said not to worry about free agency, that all bases are covered. "Trust me, we’ve got the whole plan for free agency. We’ve got the whole plan set up," Cuban said, without divulging details. "We’ve got the first frontal attack, second frontal attack, plan A, B, C, D. I’ll be in L.A. on the phone, same as I was two years ago, same as I’ve always been, but we’ll have people on peoples’ doorsteps."

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:56

Dallas had a solid draft. Three defensive role players [Cunningham,Crowder and B.James] for a little money.

If they amnesty Haywood, should the sixers have interest?

All comes down to a cost factor - if he doesn't cost much - sure - put in a 2 million dollar bid on his amnesty - he can be a good body - he's not a great player - but upgrade over what the sixers have if the price is right - maybe works well with humphries

Not sure this was out there - I know the suns had interest in Jrue Holiday, I didn't know that they passed on him only because they thought they had another deal done

Steve Kerr: When Curry was available at seven, Golden State took him. We thought we've got a deal. It hasn't been consummated. So at 14, Jrue Holiday is still there and we go, 'Wait a sec, we've got (Steve Nash). We've got (Goran) Dragic, who we really like. We thought we're going to have Curry. We just can't take another point guard. We take Earl Clark, who we love for defensive purposes. Jrue Holiday has turned into a great point guard and Clark is still trying to find his way." Arizona Republic

I weighed in before the draft saying I wanted to trade up for Drummond. Clearly the opportunity was there and they didn't feel it was worth it.

While I'm no major proponent for Thorn, any assessment based on the near term impacts of these players is misguided. The front office was up front about their intention for this draft in the beginning, when they stated: "Will we draft for talent, we will trade for need". Clearly they went out and executed based on that strategy. They thought they got good value in terms of developmental talent based upon the picks they had available. Time will prove them right or wrong. If they turn out to be right, whether Harkless is a SG, SF or PF they made a great pick --- because he will at least have trade value we can leverage. They simply view the draft as vehicle for adding assets. A perspective shared by the Spurs and their progeny GMs in OKC and now Orlando.

If we are looking to how the next year or two's needs are to be solved, look to trades and/or free agency. That will be more interesting and they clearly will have to make significant moves. Not saying I have a lot of confidence in how it turns out - but I'll reserve judgement until we see what happens.

Also, I will say that I think 'Moe Harkless' is a really cool name so I hope he turns out to be really good someday.

I weighed in before the draft saying I wanted to trade up for Drummond. Clearly the opportunity was there and they didn't feel it was worth it.

Where was it clear the opportunity was available. As far as I can tell, 8 was the only 'clear' opportunity, and if the Raptors wanna make a huge run at Nash, taking on Iguodala hinders that possibility.

If you say Golden State, I'll disagree, Harrison Barnes wasn't supposed to be available at 7, once he was, I believe Golden State stopped talking to anyone for trade because they felt they were gettinga draft steal.

spencer for hire reply to TNT on Jun 29 at 13:07

Memphis gave qualifying offers to Spieghts and D.Arthur, not to Mayo. Is Mayo worth amnestying Elton and would you rather have Lou at 7 mpy. or Mayo at 11 mpy.?

Interesting that Memphis wouldn't qualify Mayo, he was going to be sought after this off season and a S&T with a young team with assets may have presented itself (Minny has been rumored to be hot on Mayo for a while now).


spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 13:13

Mayo's numbers the first 2 years were good. Don't know why he tailed off but a move for him makes sense now.

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 13:19

Are sign n trades rendered obselete under the new c b a ? The rules are different now as far as benefiting the players, if I remember correctly.

I don't know if they are completely obsolete, I thought they still had some use...not making a qualfying offer to a guy like Mayo just seems out of the ordinary, hell the sixers made one to Spencer Hawes, unless a guy is just a huge turd, the only thing the qualifying offer does is hold up cap space, which might mean the Grizz need that cap space sooner rather than waiting for Mayo to find a new deal...i mean - let him find a better deal and let him go or match it - not offering the QO makes little sense unless there's a move coming quickly...

Hollinger says it's purely a financial decisions

If Speights, Arthur accept QOs it puts Griz $1M in tax; that's workable. But if Mayo accepted his it was Armageddon.

Means that a trade with them (for Iguodala for instance) seems to indicate that it really has to be dollar for dollar, or the sixers taking on more money then they send out.

Then again, it also means that such a salary skittish team might be willing to trade a player on the outs if it got them a big fat trade exception....just saying

Apparently, the plan in Philly is fill the roster with wings who can't shoot jumpers and bigs who only want to shoot jumpers. Awesome.

eddies' heady's reply to Mike on Jun 29 at 13:14

You hit the nail on the head. The evidence sure tells us that.

Bosh withdrew from Olympics as well today

Tony Dileo's Greatest Hits:

Side 1

Little Guy's Big Dreams
Hampton Posse Ride
So Long Stack
Standin' Tall At The Baggy Shorts Ball
Cuppin' Ma Ears For You

Side 2

Mama Said
Defending 3 Is The Loneliest Number
Talkin' Practice Blues
Crossovers, Cognac and Moonbeams
The Ballad Of Larry & Pat
Skip To My Lue

spencer for hire reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 29 at 13:21

We drafted Sonny Dove and Darnell Hillman last night, haven't you heard?

Lloyd to you; he's your elder, suede. Darnell had a good 'fro back in the day.

Where to turn if they're Mark Macon and Donald Hodge?

Ford: Sixers B+ (insider)

Analysis: The Sixers added a lot more athleticism to one of the most athletic teams in the league. Harkless is a slashing forward who reminds scouts of a young Trevor Ariza. Landing a shooter was a more pressing need, but all of the top shooters were off the board by 15. Moultrie is a bouncy rebounding machine who can stretch the floor with his jumper. However, I'm not sure either guy will ever live up to their athletic potential. Doug Collins is going to be a bit frustrated with their basketball IQ. But I like their potential a lot. I also thought that the Sixers paid a very small price to land Moultrie. A future lottery-protected first who will likely land in the awful 2013 NBA Draft is a bonus (wonder if the Heat had done their homework on what was coming next year). You don't find athletes like Moultrie this far down in the draft.

I didn't think about the "bad 2013 draft" angle.

Waffle. How can Ford issue a B+ if he's not sure they'll ever live up to athletic potential? You aspiring basketweavers, take his course.

He's Chad Ford - why would you wonder anything more when you realize it's chad food.

Was a rhetorical question. Heard of him, but I don't seek out his journaleeching. Some are respectable, few are interesting. Locally, I miss Kate Fagan's drilling and dispensing on Sixers, even though she got a little googly-eyed for the comebacking Cap'n Collins.

If you miss Fagan one would think yo'd love ford

A cockeyed corollary. It's like saying if you like Emily Dickinson, you'll like Shel Silverstein.

The former beat writer cast a fresh eye on a tired organization and dared to express her optics with atypical depth/intensity. No shame in appreciating her work during her Philly stint.

Currently, Tom Moore, Dennis Deitsch and Jack McCaffery are worthy local reads on your 76ers.

Correction: Dennis Deitch (no 's')

This "young" Trevor Ariza stuff slays me.

Given this draft, here are my speculations about what the rest of this offseason looks like (not what I want to happen, but what I think will happen):

--2 out of Hawes, Brand and Allen will be back. Likely Brand and Allen. (Please, by all the gods, let Hawes go.) Brand then becomes either a trade chip at the deadline or money off the books for 2012 FA class.
--1 or even 2 of the three of Iguodala, Turner and Thad traded. Most likely just Iguodala. Most likely for an Al Jefferson type, but who knows.
--Meeks re-signed for cheap.
--MLE type signing for a shooter.
--Lou still walks.

So, with the 'luck of the sixers' that exists, Iguodala will make the olympic team, the sixers won't consummate a deal in time and he'll blow something out missing the entire season.

I feel like us fans need to pool money together to try and buy this team and lead it in a new direction. I get more insight from articles on here than from anything I hear from the front office. Are there any billionaires on here?

TwoSense reply to Dwight on Jun 29 at 14:24

No, but I do have a few pennies.

Two of them?

something to keep your eye on

Re: roster: the Sixers nearly had a couple of big-time trades happen. For some reason teams didn't pull trigger on deals w/ established guys

I'm told there will be big moves made and that the Sixers are involved in some of these talks. There will be a shoe dropping Btwn now & 7/15

"For some reason"

cause they never pull the trigger :)

As of right now...

Harkless comes in for defense and help on the boards. He can guard the three, some two, and some four.

According to DraftExpress' intel, Jrue will be off the ball more often. A bonafide scoring role will bode well for him if he comes back stronger and more aggressive.

If the playoff run was any indication, be prepared for a lot of Evan Turner as point forward.

Iguodala returns as slash. Wing defender slash transition ace slash spot-up aficionado.

The logjam of mostly ineffective bigs (Brand/Young/Vucevic/Allen/Moultrie) will be sorted out by free agency or trade.

Pure speculation:
Brand agrees to spread out his due $18M over three years.
With enough cap space to offer a maximum contract ($21M available I believe), Serge Ibaka signs an offer sheet, which I think starts at $13M for a three year veteran, that OKC declines to match. The remaining cap space is used to sign now unrestricted free agent Ovinton J'Anthony Mayo and fill out the roster. Holiday is then extended for Mike Conley money.


I just pulled that out if my ass, but it's what I see as an ideal. I could go either way on Brand (amnesty or re-sign) but if they are commited to making a move, it should be while the amnesty window is open. Something tells me moving him as an expiring at the trade deadline won't net a worthwhile return. Also, I said I wanted Mayo but only if he can operate as a veritable backup point. Otherwise, just fill in the blank.

According to DraftExpress' intel, Jrue will be off the ball more often. A bonafide scoring role will bode well for him if he comes back stronger and more aggressive.

That 'intel' was to justify having a point guard in the sixers for the mock - 30 minutes later their mock changed

While DX employs the most reliable sixer source I know of - I don't buy that because their mock changes SO quickly.

It was their provided rationale behind them mocking Kendall Marshall as the 15th pick, and obviously that didn't pan out, but I think that the thought process still stands true. Bring in someone who can operate the offense part-time so that Jrue can freelance and make the most of his scoring abilities, both with and without the ball.

And as I said yesterday, if this is the sixers plan, then their plan to destroy Jrue Holidays future as a productive player in the NBA continues apace

How is that?

Because Jrue Holiday is a point guard, not a shooting guard, and playing him more off the ball moves him away from that - and thus eliminates a skill that he has

You know - like last year - when collins made the short sighted move to give iguodala more responsibility offensively - it won a few more games but it broke jrues development - this year collins was a bear on turnovers and now he'll just tell jrue he's a 2 guard


Jrue is a combo guard with excellent scoring instincts, not point abilities. He's still developing and is, for reference, only two months older than Damian Lillard. He will be a proficient point over time, but that's not where he can be effectively utilized right now.

I guess it's not fair of me to say "right now." I should say "full-time."

How does Collins let him go at the point last season when there are no practices to allow for correction of Holiday's inevitable mistakes?

Hmm...well he could let him make mistakes, know that he's young, and know that developing players make mistakes and learn from them - instead he did what taskmasters do - thus scaring those who work for them into trying to improve because they know if they fail they get in trouble and the trouble is not something they want to deal with.

This is one of those issues where collins is a bad coach in my estimation - more worried about the short term (his resume) than the player development

It's funny how Jrue Holiday was a point guard until Doug Collins decided he wasn't (and wins were more important)

He's still learning to play in the NBA

woo knee reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 21:29

if collins only thinks short term -
and the wrinkly old hand of collins is on the reins of the franchise -
why did the sixers draft a raw 19 year old that will take time to develop and who does not fit the present roster that well; when there were more nba-ready players and players who fit better available?

You mean like when they gave away the 15th pick in next years draft for Moultiere?

Seriously - why not just draft him 15 and keep next years pick.

woo knee reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 21:40

its been suggested above that next years draft class is weak, perhaps the sixers got a guy in moultrie that they think is a better prospect than whoever is available mid late teens next year.

but you changed the subject.

collins just picked a very athletic raw kid who will need time to develop (assuming wrinkly hand not in ass but firmly on reins). thats long term thinking. we took best upside available.

just saw harkless on daily news live replay. he is smart and mature beyond his years. that certainly seems like the kind of character guy that collins likes.

because theres a pretty good chance that moultrie at 27 is better then whoever they will get next year(unless they suck and get a top 5 pick)

Watching some video of Harkless, I was reminded of another St. John's alum, Ron Artest (Metta World Peace). Moe has the same herky-jerky dribble and is very inconsistent with the jumper (Artest is a career 42% shooter), but he seems to be able to get points through sheer physicality. Artest is another answer to the question that people often ask (are there examples of players whose jump shots get better over time?): shot low 30's from 3 for the first 7 years of his career, bumped it up to 36-37% for years 8-12.

Obviously, the question is whether Harkless can be as good as Artest on defense. If he isn't, I'd imagine it won't be long before Philly fans nickname him "Mo Heartless" ...

johnrosz reply to Statman on Jun 29 at 15:59

he seems like a way better athlete than Ron Ron, but maybe Artest had some hops back in the day, can't say I really remember

I really like the picking Harkless at 15 and trading up to get Moultrie. I would like it better if we had offered up Thad or Turner to be able to pick up Sullinger, Zeller, Perry Jones III. Now waiting to see if the Front Office is going to do next. I have a bad feeling about the possibility of them trading for Crawford, resigning Lou Williams and Spencer Hawes. Of course now if they don't do that I will be pretty happy with them. Gotta love "lowered expectations".

Crawford is a free agent

They can over pay him without trading for him

emtmess reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 18:12

Yeah i was not sure what was going on with him since there was some rumors about the Sixers being interested in trading for him prior to the draft.

He doesn't think he's a back up
If the sixers are moving jrue off the ball - make him the starter - i've always been a fan
Once they move Iguodala you can start calderon jrue and turner
He's a starter in a league where a few teams need starts (Phoenix, Utah, even the lakers could use an upgrade).

If he isn't claimed, he'll sign as a starter somewhere I bet

Lol. The idea that Rod Thorn would go out and actively pursue a free agent made me chuckle.

Indiana, New York, Miami, Atlanta, and Orlando would be good destinations for him.

Utah, the Lakers, hell Chicago needs a point guard for next season as well

Calderon only has a one year deal left, Toronto is doing this to try and run after Nash (which I don't think they'll succeed at and then they'll throw money at Dragic or Lowry probably), but with only one year left and so many teams needing a point guard, some of them can claim players, I don't think he'll make it through the 'waiver wire'

spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 19:06

Solomon Alabi is a guy I would take a flier on. Long athletic shotblocker in T.Batties' role as a 3rd center.

Sixers have much bigger issues then finding a third center - as much as there was love for Battie, a lot of that was because the other options, well, stunk...improve the starting center to someone who isn't spencer hawes and the calls for the 3rd center might die off. I mean sure, he might be nice

Starting C
Starting PF (I amnesty Brand)
A starting 2 who can shoot (like Ray Allen)
Bench Scorer to replace Lou (Evan Turner isn't it)
Defensive guy off the bench (back court type, 1-3 defender)

Those are 5 things I'd worry about before the third center :)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 19:25

"Defensive guy off the bench (back court type, 1-3 defender)"

I think that guy is Moe Harkless

I've heard tell of it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

The undersized college power forward converting switching positions and defending NBA players (I mean is the A-10 even a power conference any more?) and working on his god awful shot mechanics - if anyone can do it - the uber coach who makes men out of ferrets can

Schoolboy reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:10

He played for st johns of the big east. Not st joes of the a-10

Actually - in my mind he played for neither - for some reason st bonaventure was stuck in my mind - double check pictures in the future

Which of course means a bit tougher defense, and he's used to the 6 foul thing.

of course, according to the review today, St Johns mostly played zones - so there's that

emtmess reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 12:17

I read a reviews on swishscout.com and other places that said his shot mechanics are not bad. I am no expert so I will defer to others. I would like to know why your opinion differs from is it based on how his shot looks or the results he gets from it. I know some players have good mechanics with no touch and that can limit there effectiveness as a shooter.

In terms of history of being accurate, and intelligent about basketball, I don't know swishscout, I know derek.

Of all the people who I've read over the years who write about the sixers, his opinion is one I value the most (and there's very few whose opinions I totally respect about the game). He purely writes about the sixers and basketball with no personal agenda behind it and gets the game (in my opinion)

So when he says Harkless has a crap shot, I believe him.

Evan Turner had a crap shot in college, but he still got buckets, that isn't working in the NBA

Ask yourself, is drafting another player with awful shot mechanics really the best use of a pick...no matter what your plan. Was Moe Harkless really far and away the 'best' player available. Everyone at 15 had flaws, is it wise to draft a guy with a big shooting flaw when you already used #2 to draft a guy with a big shooting flaw?

emtmess reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:47

It depends on what your overall plan is for the team I guess. I am ok with them picking Harkless. I would not have been mad if they had picked P. Jones, T. Jones, Sullinger. Or if they had made the trade with Dallas that Cleveland did (not for the players that Dallas got but for the picks). It comes down to what else they do, if they stand still then it downgrades how effective Harkless might be able to be. If they go out and make other changes to the roster the may be able to maximize what they can get out Harkless both short and long term.

Whatever the sixers plan, they have a lot of holes, immediate and future, and drafting Evan Turner 2.0 doesn't seem to be a good idea to fill any of them

That's just how I see it

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 19:33

Youw won't be able to address the PF/C positions in free agency. Next year the free agents will be:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Nikola Pekovic
Serge Ibaka
Taj Gibson
Josh Smith
Paul Millsap
Tiago Splitter

Well, kris humphries numbers aren't horrible
there's the russian guy the bucks are going to let go
The Bulls have excess big men and a desire to save money

THere are options this off season

Dwight Howard isn't coming here
the Lakers will extend Bynum
Pekovic might be a RFA that Minny won't let go
Ibaka is interesting though - the whole OKC Plan is interesting - BUt on the open market Ibaka is going to be vastly over paid

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:21

You need an active GM to fill all of the needs on the roster.

Ersan Ilyasova is an interesting name, although I wouldn't throw big money at him. He does not look like he weighs 235 lbs.

If it helps - think of Rod Thorn as Billy King and Doug Collins as Larry Brown

There is an active 'mind' deciding on moves for the sixers - whether it's addled or thinking clearly is a different story


Toronto Raptors Media Relations: ‪#Raptors‬ To clear any misinformation out there, Bryan Colangelo DID NOT say today he plans to amnesty Jose Calderon.

Sounds to me like someone mis reported a conference call

Jameer Nelson - doing the Magic a favor - opting out

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:18

lol. Who is going to pay Jammer Nelson 7+ million a year on the open market?

Funny thing is that if the Magic hadn't panicked and traded VC, Pietrus, and Gortat for Hedo and Richardson, and not sign and traded for Big Baby, they would be sitting pretty with 20 million in cap space.

They should have taken the Miami route by not making dumb moves to appease their superstar

In Orlandos defense - the heat had inside information a year in advance that bosh and lebron would be willing to come there

And it wasn't tampering cause it was just 3 players talking in another country

Don't you love the NBA?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:38

He should have known that bringing back Hedo wasn't enough to take them past Miami. He had Dwight for another year there was no need to panic.

I don't know, is Orlando a shitty place? I've never been there before. He should have Dwight recruit CP3 or Deron Williams.

I can't blame him entirely. He probably wasn't certain about the amnesty clause or whether or not Jameer Nelson would opt out.

I don't know, is Orlando a shitty place?
Short answer, yes.

The allure of Miami is the nightlife...skanks galore in Miami, Orlando is more disney centric, not exactly nightlife friendly.

I think ocean proximity versus inland also contributes to it.

I mean burn notice looks cool

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:43

The Sixers should definitely hire Iverson to recruit players to Philadelphia

When's the last time a "small" market signed a super star free agent?

Sacramento is a small market and did a good job for a while of singing good free agents.

Recently though, um, Boozer bolting for Utah is really the only time I can think of?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 20:59

Steve Nash to the Suns. I forgot about that one

At least, by drafting Moultrie, they won't take on whatever huge contract Kris Humphries gets.

Breaking Sixers News

Scott Schroeder: Clay Tucker and Devin Searcy are expected to join Xavier Silas on the Sixers roster in Orlando. Twitter

I usually don't get mad at the stupid things the Sixers do but when Toronto was picking at 8 and Drummond was there and no trade with Iggy (after hearing how Toronto was offering David and Calderon too) was made I was very mad and then got depressed.

It was compounded when the Raptors took the guy I kinda wanted and then the Sixers decided to take another version of Thad Young.

We are the new Hawks. Just start 4 SFs and Jrue and be happy we make it to .500 every year. Even better when we hire Gund as our GM.

:( :( :(

If we decide to trade Iggy, don't resign Lou and Hawks, and just let Brand expire I will flip 180, but it isn't looking good.

Please rebuild guys. First round exits and mid round picks are what titles a blog full of miserable dudes.

Well, you got 'very mad and then got depressed' over something that probably never was real to start with. I thought maybe Toronto would see about moving their pick, because they couldn't get lillard, and they over drafted as well...if the sixers moved up to 8 to get ross - I think apoplexy would have ocurrred here.

If you buy this report

Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo "tried hard" to move down in the draft, but most offers involved trading out of the draft entirely, which he didn't want to do, says Ryan Wolstat of the Toronto Sun

Then maybe the sixers could have moved up

But it would have cost them 15 and they didn't want to do that, probably in additino to giving up the best player in the deal...I would have been opposed to that idea.

I wouldn't have moved up to 8 if it meant giving up 15...before the draft or now

Would you trade Andre Iguodala and Moe Harkless for Anre Drummond?

Five years from now that might be a no-brainer. Harkless is at best, what, a hybrid forward that's a defensive specialist and not totally useless offensively? Bizzaro Thad Young?

I see your point, but I think the sixers made the wrong pick at 15 as well :)

I don't think I would trade Iguodala and Harkless just for Drummond, that's not enough for Iguodala

Not for nothing, did I miss the announcement of the qualifying offer for Lavoy Allen?

Andre Iguodala sold his house on the main line (beautiful place to grow up by the way) supposedly below market value - over react to that as you will

Damn can't beleive how many people are bitchin and moaning about these picks, I mean I think just getting Harkless would have been dissapointing but when they got Moultrie to, thats not too bad I dont think. I think Moultrie could be pretty decent, def athletic catch some olly oops from Jrue, pretty decent footwork and a good rebounder. Obviously this is not our complete team and there are moves to be made but I am pretty excited about the picks and hopefull for a couple more nice peices to add in FA or possibly trade. Oh well just my take. You can't just turn a switch and be a championchip contender, dosen't work like that unless you get Dwight Howard but I don't think thats going to happen.

sfw reply to Garrett on Jun 30 at 7:33

The reason folks are bitchin is they wanted Dwight #2 in Drummond and thought it was possible to do and the Sixers didn't. I didn't want him. So, I agree with you.

Brian, here comes the fun part of the offseason. Free agent and trade season. Can't wait to hear your take on what is gonna happen.

My wish list:
Ray Allen
Joakim Noah

If we can't get them:
Jason Terry
Omer Asik

Even though I know Chicago wants to keep Asik - I make him a strong offer to put Chicago in a mode where they have to make a decision. Then we have a stopper in the middle to complement the best wing defenders in the NBA.

"Best wing defenders in the NBA" never got no team to promised land, not no how, not next season, not in all seasons that have come before. (See Sidney Moncrief, Paul Pressey-Bucks - creme de la creme of paired mid-sized "in the yard" pitbulls).

Still looking for Sixers to insert a couple dependable shooters (not JazzyJrueOfHollywood, an AAU-trained "hybrid" [euphemism for we-don't-know-what-the-hell-he-is-but-we-drafted-'em], not LouWillHeOrWon'tHe?, not Mouthguard Jodie), two nasty rebounders (Vuc & earthbound Eltie?? - c'mon!!), a scrappy floor general with court vision and sense of where his team is (ex. Lowry, Calderon, Nash, Nelson), an actual post presence with ability to score (for when needed - - it's called halfcourt relief) and a complementary soldier or two... THEN Sixer fans would have somethin' to crow about. Until then, an olio of guys shaped liked basketball players or, if you prefer, Collinsian goulash, doctored grub at the Not-OK Corral.

Iverson, 1 year of Barkley-Mahorn-Gminski-D. Smith-Dawkins-Hawkins-et al, '76-'83, '63-'68: the proud times.

Funny how all your desired floor generals have zero rings in about 30 combined seasons. Also hilarious that you put Jameer, probably the worst pure PG in the league in with that group.

Zero rings, proof of zero re PGs. Takes a full team to win.

I know you dis Nelson regularly. I know he's a winner.

Really, where has Nelson 'won'?

If not for one year in college would Jammer Nelson get all this kind of hype?

He's been in the NBA for a while now, hasn't won squat...

Funny that the only time Orlando had any success in the playoffs was the year Nelson was out.

CM reply to TNT on Jun 30 at 10:55

How far are Los Bulls from the luxury tax? What would it take to make their matching of an Asik offer unpalatable?

The Deng, Noah rumors were purportedly due to luxury tax concerns, so there is a chance that if you offer a deal that puts them over they wouldn't match. Is Asik really worth that much?

How much?

That was my question.

From Coons chat yesterday - the bulls are already paying the tax

Bulls won’t be able to offer much to anybody. Right now they’re $6 million over the tax line, so all they’d have is the $3 million non-taxpayer mid level exception. They don’t want to be taxpayers, so they clearly want to shed salary.

I still think using the amnesty on brand and absoring noah if they will do it to get under the tax is a good plan - btw - that's a better use for a future mid first round pick then giving it to the heat.

KG back to the celtics for 3 years 34 million


ojr107 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 11:05

They will regret that after next season, if not sooner.

Who wants to bet the third year has a team option?

Blake Griffin reportedly about to sign his exetension in Clipper land - wonder how he'll feel when Chris Paul leaves

matt reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 12:12

It seems like standard procedure to lock up your first big contract as early as possible.

Yeah, especially in Griffin's case. I mean, he already missed a full year due to injury, plus he gets thrown the floor a couple of times a week. If I were him, I'd sign the first big offer as well.

stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 12:29

CP3 stays for good. There's no way he gives up his bird rights. Plus there isn't a better market out there for him.

Chris Paul isn't a free agent until next year

And there are plenty of better places for him than playing for the worst owner in basketball.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that Donald Sterling will come near the luxury tax.

Max out Paul, Max out Griffin, the amount of money they pay Jordan - and what money do you have left?

Don't forget, worst paid coach, worst paid GM - that team won't ever win while sterling is the owner.

I really think a comissioner should have the power to force a sale for the 'good of the league'

Let Ellison have the clippers, move em up north, let the kings leave for anaheim - split that area as the warriors move to san francisco

For the good of the league.

This isn't like in baseball where teams are in poorer cities and have cheap owners

This is freaking LA for gods sake...

stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:27

He's in a good situation. NY, Orlando or any other team out there won't be able to offer him a max contract and give him a better roster that he has right now.

Is Sterling really going to stop short of the luxury tax if its going to prevent them from selling out every game?

Is Sterling really going to stop short of the luxury tax if
its going to prevent them from selling out every game?

Of course he is - because for him it's about maximizing profit, and the money share he gets for not being a luxury tax payer probably exceeds the attendance money - there's cost in more fans - there's no cost in luxury tax bonus.

With the repeater tax and teams being penalized even more, you have to think the 'bonus' for being under the luury tax has grown as well.

Win or lose, the clippers have always been one of the most profitable nba teams, year in and year out...and it's well established that's what sterling worries about.

That's why a GM works without a contract, that's why a bad coach is kept, because he's cheap....sterling has shown 'effort' before, maggette/brand at the time, but in the end he always reverts to form.

I dislike sterling for a lot of reasons, he's really an AWFUL human being, but he's also a crap sports owner...just yet another reason to dislike him...if he suddenly grew one of those old timey mustaches with the 'coils' on the end that villians used to have I wouldn't be surprised.

Donald Sterling cares about only one thing - profit - not wins and losses - and he was making tons of bank when the clippers sucked...he'll have no problem going back to suck - it's about the P/L - not attendance

You can't look at donald sterling like a 'normal' owner - you have to look at him like the pittsburgh pirates, or the kansas city royals - sure maybe they'll be good for a bit - but they'll let their stars go before they have to pay them the big bucks.

Even with his contract extension on his rookie deal, is blake griffin really paid 'what he's worth' - isn't it that 'second deal' post rookie contract where guys really cash in?

Chris Paul is coming up to his next off season...

Already there are reports that the clippers are low balling him on the contract extensions (3 years - if he hits the open market every team can offer him 4).

You only mentioned two teams - the salary cap market is malleable. The sixers could be smart, cautious, and have the cap room to sign Chris Paul next off season to a max (4 year) deal. The Hornets have a new owner - two high draft picks - and still don't have a point guard, but they have a new owner, unafraid to make big moves, with experience bringing big names to a small city in the NFL (different market I know). He wasn't here when the hornets gave Paul away, what sort of coup would it be for Benson to get Davis one year (pure luck of course but still) and then bring back Chris Paul.

You can't just say 'Orlando New York' and say no one can afford Chris Paul, he'll be more sought after than Deron Williams, and more teams are going to clear cap space on the off chance dwight does hit the market.

I don't think it's a lock he stays in LA, and because of the owners, the odds go down, just based on his history

In my opinion our tactic is a bigger issue than current roster. Sixers don't have pure shooters? So attack the fuckin' basket, get to the line and stop making this mid/long jump shots all the time. Simple.

matt reply to Jay on Jun 30 at 12:15

You need some floor spacing for that to work. Everybody has been talking about the athletes in the finals, but what about all the shooters? Miami dominated by kicking it out. A good offense has someone that can break down the defense and a couple guys that can hit outside shots when they double/clog the paint.

Jay reply to matt on Jun 30 at 12:21

Yeah but this doesn't explain why the Sixers were last in getting to the free throw line.

The explanation is simple

Spencer Hawes
Elton Brand
Lavoy Allen
Thaddeus Young (I guess he counts)

And Doug Collins offense.

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 12:47

Mainly Doug Collins offense. My thoughts are around players like Iguodala, Turner, now Harkless. They are slashers and suffer with long jumpers.

Not having big men who can play the low post AND OR draw a double team is an issue the sixers have had for a LONG time...my hope is that this off season they try and mend that decades old mistake a little.

Two Years ago, Cleveland wouldn't commit to obtaining a major player (Amare?) to assuage Lebron James because of JJ Hickson, now hickson isn't even offered a qualifying offer. Is there any reason to take a look at the kid or was Cleveland just stupid a couple years ago?

The sixers need a vast improvement in front court players if they want to 'compete now' and if you do it by giving up Iguodala you create a new need

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 13:25

I don't really understand what happened with J.J. Hickson but I love this guy. You mention that we need big man who can play the low post. How about Al Jefferson for Iguodala? I can't see any better low post big who could be available for Sixers. And Harkless can replace Iggy in my opinion.

You think Harkless can replace Iguodala next year?

His defense, his rebounding, his court vision, his ball handling...hell, Iguodala had his best year shooting from the 3 last year.

Andre Iguodala probably had the best overall season (even with the FT shooting) of his career and you think that this kid with so many flaws he needs to work on (plus needing to learn to play a new position and play real defense instead of zone defense) can replace him next year?

Because Al Jefferson has one year left on his contract, so unless you think Harkless is ready to step in RIGHT NOW - trading Iguodala for Jefferson does create a giant hole

And neither Harkless nor Turner can fill it.

So - the only way I'm comfortable with the sixers being a better team in trading for Al Jefferson is if he's absorbed into the cap space created by amnestying Elton Brand or if the jazz want Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:04

Let's get it straight: 28 y/o Andre Iguodala today is better player than 19 y/o Moe Harkless. But I don't think that AI is all we need now. And he has player option for next season. Besides I'm sick with treating Evan Turner like an egg. And I don't want to see the same story with Harkless. He is a tough kid from Queens and I would give him a chance.

None of those things make any sort of basketball sense to me, Evan Turner hasn't been treated like an egg, he's been given a chance, and he failed, and your 'harkless is a tough kid' thing means nothing if he can't play in the NBA

Your argument was 'trade jefferson for Igudoala because harkless can take Iguodalas place'

1. He can't - he probably never will - Iguodala was better in college than Harkless was as well
2. Al Jefferson is only signed for one year

So - if you think the sixers are a better team with Al Jefferson but not Andre Iguodala and entrusting an unproven rookie to the spot - I disagree whole heartedly

For basketball reasons not nonsensical 'toughness' reasons.

The sixers at BEST make a lateral move in the trade you suggested - they aren't better

So why bother?

As for Iguodalas option, whatever, he's not likely to opt out.

Like i said, with sixers luck, they'll wait on an iguodala trade, he'll get injured this summer and then they're screwed.

Maybe for reasons of toughness and leadership and being an all around nice guy they should amnesty iguodala so they can keep brand?

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:33

C' mon.....amnesty Igoudala?

I was being sarcastic, if 'toughness' is important factor in harkless being ready right away to replace iguodala than since iguodala is such a 'non leader' then it's better to keep brand for those esoteric intangibles then keep the best player on the roster.

There's a latin term for what I was trying to do, but I stopped taking latin in 9th grade, gave up on the idea of law school after my mom got screwed over by too many malpractice and divorce attorneys - realized anyone who went into law truly was scum - so gave up latin

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:51

very well. I gave it up after 9th grade as well.

French was easier, and got me 12 free credits in college :)

Remember, I'm usually being a smart ass ;)

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 16:05

I disagree. Evan Turner didn't get his chance. For god's sake even Jodie Meeks has been given a bigger chance. About my argument, I suppose Harkless can be good wing defender as Iggy is. AI is better ball handler and passer but with Jrue and ET I could give it up if I can get big low post player as a reward. And sorry but I'm still not a big fan of Iggy's deep jumpers.

Now, how can you tell that Moe can't play in the NBA? In my opinion toughness or strong character means much more in NBA than in college basketball. Tyler Hansbrough was a star in college but in NBA he is so mediocre.

And why expiring contract is a problem for you? If Al Jefferson will fit for our roster - re-sign him. If won't - let him go. At least with Big Al we can be sure that Spencer Hawes won't return. Which lineup would you prefer: Jrue - ET - Harkless - Brand/Thad - Jefferson or Jrue - ET - Iggy - Brand/Thad - Hawes? For me it's no brainer.

And I think Evan Turner has had more than enough chance and has failed repeatedly to show consistent anything (aside from rebounding) and that the franchise, and fans, want to make excuses for him...not really sure how two years in, with what he's shown you can say 'yeah, let's get rid of our best player so we can get Evan Turner more opportunity to suck'.

When your argument devolves into 'toughness' as your strongest point, it means you can't argue things like ability or skill or back it up with anything, it means you only have some nebulous idea because of where he grew up (pussies grew up in brooklyn too, spike lee for instance, is a pussy, he's from brooklyn)

The point is you think that Al Jefferson / Moe Harkless is better than Andre Iguodala / Lavoy Allen (or elton brand or kris humphries signed as a free agent or that russian guy from milwaukee)...I disagree

If the plan is for the sixers to continue to be the best team they can be - trading Iguodala is stupid...period...the only reason I favor his trading is because while I don't believe in deserve, I think it'd be nice for him to be on a team where at least THE FRANCHISE is on his side

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 16:34

OK you have your opinion, I'll stay with mine. Spike Lee is 5' 5", Moe Harkless 6' 8" athlete and still growing. Be serious.


So now toughness has to do with height? It's not an internal quality...if you're tall you're tough if you're short you're not.


Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 16:55

If you're 5'5" you can be the toughest guy on the planet and it won't be enough. But for NBA player based on athleticism toughness is as much important as skills.

And yet that wasn't your original point - it had something to do with being tough because of where he grew up - now your point changes, that's fine

Reggie Evans is very very tough

He sucks very much at basketball

Skill matters more than toughness, ask Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant (no one from lower merion high school has ever been tough, trust me) or any number of great nba players who aren't 'tough'.

tough is one of those things people use to justify a guy with no talent

When he's white, it's not toughness, it's grit

Same principle though

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 17:20

Are you Lieutenant Colombo? Yeah Reggie Evans is very tough and I suppose more than half of NBA teams would love to have him. And even if you don't like Harkless, you have to agree that Moe has more skills and athleticism than Reggie.

Schoolboy reply to Jay on Jun 30 at 17:46

Earl Boykins.

Yeah, but is he from brooklyn? (I have no idea)

First time I've seen report of this - thankfully

With the draft in the rear view mirror, Sixers president Rod Thorn said on Friday that the next order of business was to negotiate with the team's free agents. The team kicked off that plan shortly after the introductory press conferences for draftees Maurice Harkless and Arnett Moultrie when it extended a qualifying offer to restricted free agent, Lavoy Allen, according to a source.

Some might be interested to read that Toronto feels they drafted the 7th best player in the draft

We had him ranked as the 7th best prospect – and one of the guys ahead of him slid down the board due to medical concerns. When we got to our actual pick, we took the best player available. I agree with the general sentiment that he does a lot of things reasonably well – and that’s precisely one of the reasons he projected well in our in-house analytic tools. Unless you’re looking at a guy who can provide elite production in a key area, you’re often better served taking a player who can contribute positive value in multiple key phases of the game. I’d much rather have a guy who’s a slight positive in 6 areas at the pro level than a positive in 1-2 areas and a negative in the others. Bottom line: athletic wings who can hit the 3, play defense and get after it on the boards have positive value on nearly any team, regardless of how it’s constructed. We’re a team that’s building and improving, and based on the data we’d accumulated on him, Ross was a guy we assess will very quickly become a player who can contribute on both ends of the court.

Another big man name reported available - Luis Scola

This is why you use the amnesty on Elton Brand, in my opinion, not to go out and spend on free agents but to be in a position to capitalize on situations unexpected...I'm not saying Scola is a guy you trade for, but let's say someone worth trading for becomes available after july 18th, and the team trading him is looking for cap relief.

If the sixers have not used the amnesty on Elton brand, they can not be involved.

Expiring contracts have little to no value any more as the tax is determined at the end of the season, before contracts expire...the amnesty use is much more valuable.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 14:08

I get your point, free up the money to give yourself a chance in the market, totally agree. Now as it pertains to Scola...I'd rather just have Gasol if we're going down the skilled big man route...Isn't Scola still on the books for another 3 years?

Third year isn't guaranteed unless he meets certain 'performance incentives' (source, storytellercontracts.com)

And yes, I'd trade Pau Gasol right into Elton Brands cap space, absolutely.

I think that is one reason you waive Brand, Pau Gasol, mitch kupchak has an impossible mandate (from LA radio sources I've learned to trust when it comes to the lakers). He needs to make the lakers better and reduce their luxury tax bill.

Jim Buss might be irrationally in love with Andrew Bynum and trading Kobe (like they should, basketaball wise) is a non starter, so Gasol is out by process of elimination.

Maybe it's a 3 way deal, who knows, but the sixers need to be in a position to obtain a guy like Gasol, without giving up Iguodala.

He's better than Al Jefferson, no doubt, but the sixers still have a big problem if Iguodala is given up, period...so if the goal really is 'winning' right now, keeping Iguodala until you use Brands cap room makes more sense (to me)

And, not for nothing, if you keep Iguodala, Gasol isn't so much a target, he is a big target in LA, the fans blame it all on him (not even artest, him) and in philly iguodala would still get all the blame :)

PS - they mentioned on the radio yesterday one of the benefits of Pau Gasol in LA is that he speaks spanish, the lakers just signed that HUGE tv deal with spanish speaking tv - having a player who does post game interviews in spanish is huge - not necessarily a factor that's major but it is a factor - I'd think that the hispanic population of philadelphia probably is small compared to LA (in pure volume and percentage of overall population) but I haven't been home in 9 years this thanksgiving (it's easy to remember when, it was thanksgiving the year my precocious world beating niece was born ;) )

Eric reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 16:05

Trade idea: Iguodala for Scola and Lowry.
This would be a pre-dwight move for Houston...

Interesting, but see, to me, that means "Jrue Holiday not a point guard", and I don't believe he's not a point guard, and there's still a chance, obtain lowry and Jrue Holiday is a two guard.


I guess it depends on if they have the balls to amnesty brand and what they do with it.

Well, the sixers cerrently only have 8 players under contract (counting the guaranteed first round draft pick contracts from Thursday night)

NBA rules, and history, combine to think that at least 5 players will be signed by the sixers this off season, probably 6.

How many of them will matter?

emtmess reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 15:57

Two maybe three is my guess. If we sign a 3 point shooter and a center they almost by default will get playing time. Now if they matter in a good or bad way might be the bigger question.

So which ever team Deron Williams signs with is also guaranteed to get Jason Kidd as well.

Is that an incentive or a dis-incentive?

depends, if its the nets would you rather it be kidd or a 2nd round rookie, and last year he averaged 36 MPG so its not like the backup would play alot

Cap Space is a premium and very valuable, how much do you have to pay jason kidd as a condition of getting Deron Williams?

not alot but i assume kidd knows that nobody he is going to pay him alot to be the backup

I guess, but the concept that 'with one Deron Williams you get Jason kidd'...like it's an added bonus...it's a pretty big point guard free agent market this year...you might even get a better back up than the ancient jason kidd, even for less money...doubtful he makes less than 4-5 mil per year...

Spencer for hire on Jun 30 at 18:18

Is there a free agent they target that would be very unexpected? I'll throw a name out, Jordan Farmar. He shot like 45% from 3 last year, has championship experience, can play some p.g. and is a good fit age wise with our young players.

@Ledger_Nets Jordan Farmar is opting into the final year of his contract

Spencer for hire reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 18:31

Thanks, I thought he was a good fit here.

When did you see that

NY Times had this today as well - most recent thing I've seen :)

Jordan Farmar intends to opt out of his contract by Saturday night, according to a close associate. New York Times

a nets writer i follow on twitter re tweeted it

Spencer for hire reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 18:50

With them getting Tyshaun Taylor on draft night and J.Kidd possibly coming in a package deal with Deron that surprised me.

I agree with the O.Asik talk earlier today. It would be nice to get a group of 20 to 25 year olds who already have playoff experience and let them grow together.

I mentioned Alabi yesterday because we need a rim protector added to our bigs and Asik could provide that. With Henson in Milwaukee maybe Sanders can be gotten cheaply as far as assets.

E.Davis could be another option. Does Garnett's signing limit them in free agency?

"E.Davis could be another option. Does Garnett's signing limit them in free agency?"

what does garnett signing have to do with the sixers?

Even with the signing of Kevin Garnett, the Celtics have reportedly about 13 million under the salary cap

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 19:19

I hope they use it all on OJ Mayo and Brook Lopez

Why would they even target brook lopez with Garnett coming back?

Not sure if they target mayo - but Jeff Green will take some of it I'm sure

dont know how well he is as a reporter but anyway

Source: five, six team's set to offer Lou Williams a contract

Here's hoping he is very very accurate - and that none of them are the sixers :)

Which free agent signing would piss you off the most?:

Chris Kaman
Antwan Jamison
Brook Lopez

Depends on the money - but I think Kaman - for the fact that I think he's so utterly ugly watching him 82 games a year would be awful.

Lopez is at least young :)

You would only have to suffer through about thirty games or so until he breaks an ankle.

Ugh, 30 games of that seems like extra torture if the off season proceeds how I expect it to ;)

Jesse reply to Stan on Jun 30 at 20:08

Jamison - old, can't defend, tweener

Yes. They all would be bad moves.

Does the salary of a player who has been amnestied have an impact on the luxury tax?

Jay reply to Stan on Jun 30 at 21:41


Broussard is reporing that Dwight Howard has FINALLY gone the Carmelo route, demanding a trade to one team and one team only (the Nets)

Which I think means he knows what's going to happen with Deron Williams

And also means he's an idiot for opting in (not that that was surprising) in the first place.

By opting in, can't he make more in his next contract if he's traded? If he was unrestricted he leaves money on the table, right?

Only if he re-signs with the team he's traded to and like Brian intimated - the Nets don't have squat to offer compared to a team like the rockets who supposedly ARE willing to try a one year rental.

And besides, Dwight said it wasn't about money, it was about winning...


There are about 10 teams out there who can offer more for a rental of Dwight Howard than the Nets can to buy him. Did Orlando hire their GM yet?

Yeah, they got the new GM - not the coach though

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 23:44

Does he have a no-trade clause? If would trade him to a crappy team out of spite

Only one guy in the NBA has a no trade clause (Kobe) they're almost impossible to qualify for

Any chance the sixers could sign Courtney Lee away from Houston? Is it worth the gamble? He's a younger guy..fits a good building team, no?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 23:47

What's the max that he can get by resigning with Orlando? If he were to sign somewhere else, I think his max is about 4 years and $75 million

OK, so the first kick in the junk came on draft night. I'm assuming the next two weeks will completely finish me off. First bit of news I'm expecting: 4 years, $38M for Lou Williams.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 30 at 23:52

Does he get reunited with Billy King? :)

Look at this way, not re-signing Lou or Hawes puts this team about $8 million under the salary cap and only 10 players on the roster. That means Thorn would have to go out and shop for free agents.

I'd rather have Lou for $38 milllion, than see that money go to guys like Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmer, and Johan Petro.

Shit, don't make me go to the spreadsheet, but that math doesn't sound right to me.

Jesus, you get away from the computer w/ the family for a day and all hell breaks loose. So the Mavs didn't cut Vince Carter, which will probably hamper them in their chase for Deron Williams. Jordan Farmar opted in to the final year of his deal w/ the Nets, taking away some of their flexibility, and now the Nets are trying to get Joe Johnson from the Hawks? I don't get half of these rumors.

Stan reply to Brian on Jun 30 at 23:56

Trading for Joe Johnson and re-singing Wallace might convince Deron to stay. They lose their cap space, but right now they're banking on Orlando giving them Howard in exchange for Brook Lopez and MarShon Brooks.

Hopefully the Magic trade him somewhere else out of spite.

If they trade for Joe Johnson, there's no way they could possibly sign Deron for the max and trade for Howard.

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 0:16

Trade Morrow, Petro, Farmer for Joe Johnson. Sign Gerald Wallace to $11 million a year, sign Brook Lopez for $8 million a year, sign Kris Humphries to $10 million a year and then use the Bird Rights to re-sign Deron.

Have Dwight force a trade to NJ and give Orlando Brooks, Lopez and Humphries. :)

Even if that doesn't work out, if signing Joe Johnson helps them keep Deron, then the Nets are happy. They'll fill their seats for a couple of years.

They have cap holds on all the guys you mentioned, so they couldn't trade for Joe Johnson into cap space unless they rescinded their bird rights first.

renounced, not rescinded.

Right now, if they renounce everyone but Deron, I believe they have something like $37M counting against the cap, so $18M in cap space. They could do a trade where they take back Joe Johnson into that cap space, which would put them right up against the cap, then they could sign Deron using his Bird Rights, but they can't package Wallace, Humphries or any of the other guys to get Dwight, because they don't hold their Bird Rights anymore. They could only sign them for the veteran's minimum, I believe.

The Mavs date for guaranteeing Carters contract next year has not come yet - I heard that yesterday, they still can

Morey is meeting with Omer Asik in a couple of minutes, apparently.

Anyone want to wager on where Rod Thorn is right now?

Mike P reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 17:37

Sleeping. He is probably still sleeping right now.

In non sleeping GM news, Danny Ferry is really trying to clean house in that Hawks roster.

I initially really didn't want him as the Sixers GM, but damn if he is out there to prove me wrong. It seems like he is really going for a true blow up and rebuild. Exactly what I'd like to see for the Sixers.

Or the "Make good moves and get better" option, but we all know that is the biggest long shot.

Oh well, SIXERS BASKETBALL! At least Harkless has a cool name.

He didn't want to come to Philadelphia

He didn't want to be a puppet

I'm kind of shocked I'm hearing any noise at all about OJ Mayo. He's such a blah shooting guard. There are cheaper guys out there as FAs who will have a bigger impact on a team for less money.

I believe OJ considers himself a point guard. At least I think that's what rotoworld quoted.

When motivated he's a good defender, but he hasn't been consistent with his effort level. With someone like Collins behind him I would take my chances. At worst he's as good a shooter as Lou and Meeks, but with better defense.

After his role in consecutive playoff appearances in Memphis, I don't think he's being viewed as a starter that come's in and steals fifteen shots per game. He's not going to be as expensive as Eric Gordon or even Lou. He's also an unrestricted free agent, which eases things quite a bit if he finds the situation here favorable. Plus, if he's capable of spotting minutes at point without putting scoring blinders on, it's two birds with one stone.

eddies' heady's reply to Cin on Jul 1 at 10:50

Agree with this description/opinion, I'd like to have him.

Just saw on Twitter the Rockets are prepared to offer Asik $8M per year.

I guess that might be his market value, but let someone else pay it. I like Asik, but he's really, really limited. I'd so much prefer Gortat to him. Gortat's a steal at his current salary.

Eric Gordon seeking the 4-year max, per Broussard. Not a shocker there, man I'd hate signing him to that contract, though. With that injury history...

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 0:20

I wouldn't mind. He would be a good fit in between Jrue and Iguodala.

I'm really bored with this team.

@jrfingerCSN: Sixers will talk to Lou Williams and Spencer Hawes first. After that, maybe Jameer? Humphries?