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Sixers Lock Up Lavoy

eddies' heady's on Jul 2 at 0:59

I like Lavoy and wanted them to bring him back, but this deal absolutely pisses me the hell off. A disgrace. Utter effin' disgrace.

It's a distant second for me in the past week in terms of moves that have pissed me off. Short sighted stupidity rather than out and out stupidity.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 1:50

who did you want them to take at 15?

and now they can include him in that deal for Dwight!

Allen definitely deserves to be part of the rotation and 3m per year is OK for him. I was mad a few months ago when i realized that he only had a 1 year contract (probably as a result of his overblown motor issues as a way to motivate him), but i am at peace with it now. A 3m per year deal is not a game changer in the grand scheme of things.

Next in business:

1. Don't resign Hawes
2. Amnesty Brand
3. Don't resign Lou, unless it's a 1year deal or a deal at less than 5-6 million per year (which won't happen)
4. Don't offer any free agent more than a 1 year deal. Humphries, Ilyasova, Crawford and whoever else the Sixers are interested in are role players no need to lock them up long term without a core.
5. Make a hard push for a 1 year Howard rental without giving up Jrue and Iguodala
6. Try to consume an established very good player in your cap space that fits with the current core (don't give up too many assets in the process). Examples include: Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap, Pau Gasol, Danny Granger, Rudy Gay and whoever else hits the market and fits. Preference on contracts that end with Iguodala.
6b. Alternatively, in addition to acquiring a player via trade with the cap space trade Iguodala for another established very good player.
7. If 5 and 6 are unsuccessful trade Iguodala for young talented players or 1st round lottery picks (expected to be lottery picks).

Basically this leads to four possibilities (options A, B, C and D)
- fully rebuild and keep Jrue
- go for a potential Jrue/Iguodala/Howard core
- go for a Jrue/Iguodala/established player core
- go for a Jrue/established player 1/established player 2 core

Whichever route they take they need to work fully towards achieving that goal. I'll be satisfied if they make a set plan with everyone in the FO on the same page and execute it.

smh1980 on Jul 2 at 5:49

Dwight/Sixers rumor from yesterday:
david pingalore @pinglocal6 10h Heard from #nba insiders #magic dealing with #lakers #sixers #warriors #rockets on potential trades for @DwightHoward

I read this and the guy appears to be legit. Assuming this is correct, can the Sixers beat a potential offer from the Lakers, Rockets, Nets or Warriors without giving up Jrue and Iguodala? I am ok with a rental as long as the remaining team will have a chance to compete for a championship next year. If that happens maybe you can convince Howard to stay long term.

Will a Turner, Harkless, Moultrie, Vucevic, 2013 unprotected 1st and cap space be enough? If possible i'd be even willing to absorb one of the terrible Magic contracts (haven't done the math yet).

If it works and Howard stays you have a great core for the next 5-10 years. If it doesn't you start from scratch in 2013/2014 with only Jrue, Thad and Lavoy the only ones under contract (an possibly a bad Orlando contract).

Spencer for hire reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 7:24

How about the Joe Johnson rumors. If Atlanta is willing to take expirings and a future #1 pick, would ya? Would Iggy be tempted to stay put?

Elton and Evan and no future #1 for him.

Joe Johnson's contract scares the hell out of me. Not sure he will make the team that much better, so you can afford him. The only way trading for Joe Johnson makes sense is if you already have Howard.

Jrue/Johnson/Iguodala = a ton of money on the wings without the ability to add a starting caliber frontcourt IMO.

Jrue/Johnson/Howard might work even with Howard temporarily on a rental. But that's a long shot and i think you can do better than that if you can actually acquire Howard.

2013 pick outside of lottery belongs to Miami. If the Sixers had Dwight there's almost no chance they don't make the playoffs.

You are right, my bad. But i would assume that can be renegotiated, if the Sixers can give Miami something. I've seen stuff like that happen before.

Anonymous reply to Xsago on Jul 3 at 14:50

In my opinion, I don't think it would be worth 5 first round picks for a one year rental.

I'm fine with taking Turkoglu's contract back in a Howard deal. No restrictions from my standpoint in terms of who I'd be willing to trade for Howard.

However, there is no way under any circumstances I want Joe Johnson. Let the Nets be the ones to torpedo their future with what is now the most damaging bad contract in the league [since Gilbert Arenas was amnestied].

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. My only sticking point would be holding on to either Iguodala or Jrue.

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 9:34

I feel like the Sixers wouldn't be any better than the Magic were last year if they gave up both Iguodala and Jrue.

Stan reply to TNT on Jul 2 at 9:44

My dream scenario for the Nets would be for them to trade for Joe Johnson, sign Jeremy Lin, and re-sign Brook Lopez and Kris Humphries.

That would give them a starting lineup of:

Jeremy Lin
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Kris Humphries
Brook Lopez

That wouldn't be a playoff team nor a team that would be a top 5 lottery team.

I'm happy with this, if he could've been had cheaper, well hindsight is 20/20.

I turned on the Phils game on Saturday and caught a second of the ticker saying a qualifing offer had been made and I immediately started freaking out, positive it was in reference to Hawes. Scary few minutes until I was sure it had nothing to do with Hawes. (phew)

Hindsight may be 20/20 but common sense is common sense and giving a second round pick a second year at a minimum salary on his dealer is a no brainer, but it turns out it isn't because if it were a no brainer, even the sixers would figure it out.

Last night it was a 3 year deal, now it's a 2 year deal, still not a huge deal, nor something for anyone to get really upset about. It isn't like they gave Hawes or Lou any more money...they solidified a bench position for 3 million dollars...the deal is not worth wasting upset over

What I find weird or interesting or whatever is that it seems like 2/3 of the teams are in reports talking to this player or that player aside from the teams that, you know, no one would want to play for (Cleveland, Utah, Charlotte, etc...) and yet the sixers only come up on their own free agents and that one obscure dwight howard rumor.

I wonder if it's because they are so good at playing their cards to the vest or that the reporters don't know which chilli's they're at?

Looks like they've plugged all their leaks. Harkless was a complete surprise.

But an awesome one right?

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 11:34

You need to find you're happy place again. You're bringing a new meaning to the title depressed fan lately. I think GoSixers is to blame.

I'll fully take the blame if it makes you feel better...I believe I'm to blame for all ills on every internet message board that talks about philadelphia sports.

Me and disco stu

I agree. Some teams are better at keeping things from the public, others aren't. The best ones though use the media to help their cause.

The Sixers are among the better teams in the league at keeping things quiet, but are also among the worst at being able to utilize the media to their own advantage.

I have two theories

1. They aren't talking to any free agents
2. They are - but the media couldn't care less who the sixers talk to

I guess most of the time it's a little bit of both. But it's really strange to me how almost every single time the Sixers make a more important deal pretty much everyone is shocked because noone saw it coming.

I'd say being irrelevant to the media has to be at least to a degree the owners fault. The new owners have to work hard at making the team more media relevant. Winning helps greatly, but Philadelphia is a big enough market to matter to the media regardless of the winning percentage.

Just curious what you think of as an 'important' deal
I mean there was Elton Brand
And trading for chris webber was a 'big' deal that could be considered important
(I don't think anyone considered the hawes trade important ;) )

TwoSense on Jul 2 at 10:56

I want no part of Dwight Howard, none. That's a circus I definitely don't want a ticket to.

Howard may be lost and overrated (he has almost no offensive skill), but he is still by far the best center in the league in this center-starved NBA era.

I don't know if he's 'by far' the best center any more now that Bynum had a fully healthy season, but he is the best center in the league.

And 'no way' to me doesn't make any sense. If the sixers could get howard without giving up pieces that matter (Turner, unsigned draft picks, brands cap room) there's no harm in doing it in my opinion, worst case scenario there's a team at the deadline that wants him, or you just have massive cap room when he signs else where.

All depends on the cost - and neither Jrue, nor Iguodala, nor even Thaddeus Young are worth giving up for a one year rental

I disagree on Thad, definitely. I'd be alright with getting rid of the long term contract, honestly.

The equation you have to figure out regarding Iguodala being in the trade is (a) what are the odds you're going to be able to re-sign Dwight and (b) Would you be able to get more for Howard at the deadline than you could get for Iguodala now or then?

There's a very good chance you could get a top-five pick in the draft, if not better, from the Nets if you took Howard and then moved him at the deadline. You might be able to get more than that if you moved him to someone else.

It's my view that beggars can't be choosers. There are a limited number of superstars in the league, Dwight is assuredly that. You roll the dice if you have the opportunity. It would be an either or thing, though. If Iguodala and Jrue aren't included in the deal, then I'll take back Hedo's contract. If Iguodala is in the deal, I don't take back a bad contract.

I believe the odds re-signing Dwight Howard are zero - and none

I believe the value of Dwight Howard at the deadline if he sticks to his guns is not a top 5 pick...if he really only wants to go to Brooklyn you'd think maybe possibly the lesson of the knicks might even be too obvious for Billy King to miss.

The way I see it, it's a one year rental, a one year chance to try and win a title, (ray allen damn it), and you don't giv eup anyone who would help you win that title (thaddeus young off the bench matters).

Ray Allen
Who cares
Dwight Howard

That's a starting five i'd believe in more than any starting five the teams has put out in over a decade. A herniated disk takes 3-5 months to recover from.

This presumes Dwight will be professional and play out the string.

BTW - since answering interview questions that cause a kerfuffle can be seen as 'detrimental to the team' isn't there some sort of fine possibilities out there?

It's looking like the Nets are planning to use up their cap space this summer. I don't think BK is going to be able to sign him in free agency, so he'll have to put together the best trade package he can, either at the deadline, or next summer in a sign-and-trade.

So you don't believe a S&T for dwight howard built around joe johnson and gerald wallace would entice anyone?

It's the silly season, the rumors are flying fast and furious. I don't buy the 'the nets aren't going to get caught up in dwight howard madness again and are going to trade for joe johnson in 48 hours' thing...do you? I mean Billy King is stupid, but is he that stupid?

You can't have the Nets first round pick in 2013 - so what top 5 pick are you getting AFTER they have deron williams and dwight howard?

Why can't you get their #1 in 2013?

that rule only looks forward. They could trade their #1 in 2013 right now.


I thought it didn't reset until draft night itself. They traded their 2012 (stupidly) in Wallace so couldn't trade their 2013 pick...if it resets after the 2012 draft then I guess so

But what sort of flotsam would you have to take back to make the numbers work or is this based on the nets not giving up all their cap space this off season?

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 11:52

There is no way Orlando would give up Dwight and not take back any of Jrue/Iguodala/Thad, and honestly they'd probably ask for two of them.

Thad, Turner, a couple of #1 picks and cap space for Dwight and Hedo. That's too good to be true, I suppose.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:02

So for the best center in basketball, you get:

1. A very good bench player who has a healthy long-term contract and has sort of disappeared in the playoffs the last two seasons.

2. A 3rd Year shooting guard who isn't very athletic and hasn't found the ability to put the ball in the hole. Especially with your comments recently, you don't think Turner is an asset.

3. Middling draft picks.

4. Cap Space.

I just think you have to look at it from Orlando's point of view. There is going to be better offers than that. They don't even receive a starting quality player (as of yet) back in the deal.

Yeah, teams will offer better than that, I'd suppose. Too good to be true.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:02

Thats what I would offer and be comfortable with. Maybe throw in Vuce or Lavoy, or one of your favorite picks from this year. I really don't see what else they're going to get that would be better than that, except for a Bynum/Howard swap.

Then you don't make the trade, it's not worth gutting yoru roster for one year of a guy who isn't going to be happy and might stretch his back injury out longer and who has at least one confirmed incident of bad mouthing a team mate at the same time he's the one putting his team in turmoil.

Dwight Howard should not be over paid for - he's not a franchise saver if he ain't staying

Well, the flip side of that argument is that the franchise isn't worth saving, so go ahead and take a huge gamble w/ the fallback being a true rebuild starting next summer.

I don't believe it's smart to use all your rebuilding assets (Jrue Andre and to a lesser extent Thaddeus Young) in one shot and then have nothing to show for it.

Rather move the assets separately to obtain pieces...instead of moving all 3 and having nothing to show for it but cap space

Yeah, I don't consider Thad as one of the pieces worth keeping. Just Jrue and Iguodala, and Iguodala's age precludes him from being a building piece for a true rebuild.

Oh no - Iguodala (and Thad) aren't pieces for rebuilding - they are assets used to get other pieces for rebuilding.

There's really 3 guys with value (in my opinion) on this team that can be used to replenish your 'war chest' as it were for rebuilding.

Jrue Holiday
Andre Iguodala
Thaddeus Young
Elton Brands cap room

Giving most of that up and coming out with nothing but cap room and possibly a top 5 pick in what's projected (right now) to be a weak draft to me isn't a good haul for said assets.

Young has trade value, even at his salary, in fact much like Iguodala, Youngs trade value might be at its peak.

Eh. If you're talking about tearing it down, then what's the point of trading Thad for some other guy who fits a different need at $8M/year w/out the superstar to go with him.

If you aren't trying to improve upon this roster, then cap space and picks are the only things that matter in terms of a rebuild.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:15

And Jrue, the only true rebuilding block on the Sixers.

Not if he's holding out for a max contract, he isn't.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:19

Well, news travels fast. Yeah, then you have nothing.

But if you give it all up for dwigt howard all youre' going to get is cap space at the end, and maybe a top 5 pick in a bad draft

I prefer spreading it out to obtain rebuilding assets. Not sure where I said trade thaddeus young for another 8 mil a year player :)

I'm not sure what other kinds of options you're going to have. Thad's a luxury, really. The type of player a really good team might be interested in to bolster their bench. So you're talking about a different kind of player making similar money, maybe an expiring contract and a pick. Something like that.

Or a three way draft pick, you don't know, much like using the amnesty is better in case 'things come up' but putting all your eggs in the dwight howard basket knowing you'll have nothing to show for it afterwards but a barren roster and cap room (and that always attracts players right?:)) is a bad idea, it's just the way I see it

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 12:14

Still, his trade value isn't to the point where it brings back anything guaranteed to be very good. He's a bench player with a pretty high, but fair salary. I don't know what you'd get for him. Maybe an expiring and a Late 1st Round pick from a good team.

Assuming we don't resign Williams or Hawes, how much can we spend this summer a free agent?

The big issue isn't williams or hawes as much as Elton Brand, if they amnesty brand they have serious free agent money - if they don't - well - they don't

Right now, they can't do anything. They're at $56M with 9 guys under contract, including the rookies. Lop off Brand, you've got max space. Don't amnesty him, you've got the MLE only.

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 11:53

What are the restrictions for the MLE? I thought you couldn't use it if you're under the cap.

When was the last time the Sixers used the full MLE? Last thing I remember in regards to the MLE with the Sixers was when they tried to use it on Rasheed Wallace back in 05' or 06'.

I believe the clock is officially ticking on the Brand amnesty, by the way. Unless it starts ticking on the day you can officially sign people.

There've been conflicting reports on the amnesty window, I believe Coon said it starts at the end of the amnesty period, and lasts one week, so something like the 11th to 17th?

Jrue Holiday will be on the U.S. Select team that will train against the Team U.S.A. in Las Vegas next week ...

Good for him. He'd be a good pick for the team in 2016. Guard the point and hit jumpers off the bench.

this has to be wrong right?

Sixers guard Jrue Holiday added to USA select team roster. Holiday also is seeking a max contract extension from Sixers, source tells Yahoo!

Heh. Well, that's funny.

I'd have a big problem w/ a 4 year/$58M extension for Jrue right now. A big, big problem.

I would think all players would 'seek' a mx extension, but hell, the way Doug Collins uses him he'll never earn one :)

He's going to have to wait for his second non-rookie contract, if then.

So what's the better offer for Orlando?

Louis Scola, Kyle Lowry, Jeremy Lamb, and Terrence Jones in exchange for Dwight Howard and Quintin Richardson


Evan Turner, Thaddeus Young, Moe Harkless, Arnett Moultrie, and Elton Brand's cap space for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu

buke reply to Stan on Jul 2 at 13:56

If I were Orlando's GM, I think I would prefer the Houston option. Orlando may be headed to a more or less complete blowup: coach gone, former GM gone, Howard likely gone, J. Nelson maybe gone. Even Riddick's status seems uncertain according to recent reports. The Houston package you propose gives them an established point guard, one of the best shooters of the last draft, a strong, good scoring, forward with a pretty manageable contract, and a promising draft pick forward.

The Philly package you propose gives them more future flexibility and takes Hedo off their hands (although he's only around two more years at most) but gives them less reliable resources to stay competitive and begin the rebuilding process.

He can ask whatever he wants to. Doesn't mean he is going to get it.

You always set the bar high at first. I think the final offer he will receive is at around 10-11 million per year. That's something i'd be ok with i guess. It's far better than the max which is what 14 million per year?

How much did Gallinari get from the Nuggets last year? I would assume Jrue right now is at a similar level to what Gallinari was perceived to be at last year.

My thought was they could get him at a bargain price if they extended him this summer, considering he regressed last season. Something similar to what Conley got. 4 years, $36M.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:24

I thought 4 years, 40 would be fair to both parties.

Yeah, if his starting point is the max, though, then next summer is going to be crucial. They'll probably need to have their roster somewhat set if they're going to have to give him a big deal, otherwise he'll eat up too much cap space with his extension. It'll be like Iguodala w/ Brand, they'll have to use their cap space because it's going to disappear.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:29

It's tricky. Jrue's value to a team really skyrockets if he'd have a solid defensive big/pick and roll partner. Without that though, it's hard to feel comfortable starting the team by giving him a ton of money.

matt reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 12:29

Next summer was crucial anyway. If they're smart enough to enter next season with cap space (which we'll soon know), they were going to spend it all regardless. That's why I think this offseason is as telling as anything. Once next summer rolls by our roster will be essentially set for another 4-5 years - sort of how Iggy and Brand defined the prior run.

Did he really regress all in all including the playoffs? I'd say he is certainly better than what Conley was when he got the deal.

Buke reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 13:41

On what basis do you conclude that Jrue was "certainly" better than Conley? I know that we all watch Jrue a lot and Conley rarely, but that doesn't mean that Conley is accomplishing much less.

Conley improved quite a bit after he got the contract extension. Before getting the deal he was a disappointing lottery pick. The national media bashed Memphis for offering that much.

People like mentioning Conley in the same sentence with Jrue mostly because of what his contract represents (extension before he improves) rather than his actual on court production.

And of course lets just say current Conley = Jrue offensively, but Jrue is a better defender.

buke reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 14:06

Suffice it to say that I don't share the enthusiasm for Jrue's offensive capabilities. I think he's a fine athlete and defender, a good and improving shooter, and a potentially good scorer, but I'm not confident that he'll ever develop into a high quality playmaker. At least Memphis doesn't feel the need to surround Conley with two point forwards. If I ever had the opportunity to trade Jrue for someone like Rickie Rubio, I'd probably throw in a Sixers first rounder, or Evan or Thad, in the deal.

The sixers haven't surrounded jrue with two point forwards either

They only have one poitn forward, and he was here before Jrue was

Jrue is doing the best he can as the sixers try to teach him an entirely new position he's never played before.

It's like when Dom Brown was the #1 prospect in baseball and the phillies tried to 'fix' his swing and thus broke him

buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 14:24

Against my better judgment, I will respond. Jrue was regarded as a point guard coming into college (in fact either the highest or one of the highest rated ones depending upon the rating agency). He probably played that position and others for whatever AAU clubs he was part of. His high school was an uber wealthy Hollywood area private school where he pretty much was the whole team. He entered UCLA as one of the highest rated high school players but Howland had the senior Collison in the starting point guard role and kept him there. I don't know why you think he "never" played point guard until he came to the NBA.

Now, I have no wish to become involved in one of your annoyingly protracted arguments, so please look elsewhere for your targets.

Did I say he never played point guard?

I said the sixers were asking him to be something he isn't. The sixers aren't asking Jrue to be a point guard, they are trying to make him a two guard, for reasons passing understanding.

Sorry I confused you, but I'm well aware of Jrue's past, but it seems maybe you don't see what the sixers are doing with Jrue or does 'off the ball' mean something different to you?

buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 14:39

Any confusion results because you are a lousy writer (in addition to your other issues). I guess I didn't pick up on the "off the ball" point but I think I can be forgiven since you never mentioned that phrase in your post.

I mentioned teaching him a new position

The presumption you made inaccurately was that I didn't know Jrues actual position coming in to the league. As someone who claims to be an avid sixer fan (because casual fans tend not to post on blogs) you think you'd pay attention to how the sixers play and notice that they are trying to make him a two guard. I realize if you don't pay attention to the games, you probably would miss it

As for your needless, baseless, uninformed insults about my person - you know absolutely nothing real about me child, just what you see on the internet.

The internet is fraught with lies and misinformatio

buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 14:50

"you know absolutely nothing real about me child, just what you see on the internet."

And believe me, that's already far more than I want to know. As far as lying about you, well, you're the one doing all the talking so the lies must be coming from your own mouth. As far as the child comment, I've already told you that I'm 55 years old, but I can understand why you might be a bit forgetful. That information was conveyed during my turn in the conversation.

Ryan F reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 12:25

The thing is, if you give Jrue an extension this year of any significant amount, no cap space next year.

The Six reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 12:26

Even if/when he becomes an RFA, he can only get whatever offer sheet another team is willing to sign him to. It won't be a max offer. The market will set his worth for the sixers to match.

Even if it's a max offer from another team, that's less than a max offer from the Sixers.

This isn't an issue of them losing him, it's just an issue of not signing him to a favorable extension this summer, which would've been preferable.

I see his value at $50M with a contract length of five years including a player option for the fifth year.

1st year: $8M
2nd: $9M
3rd: $10M
4th: $11M
5th (player option): $12M

Good god, no more player options PLEASE

Thad has a player option, didn't realize that.

I wish I'd read about someone else offering Hawes a deal.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 13:04

me too. starting to worry a bit.

Hawes is not among the top tier big men. He will get an offer when the best free agents are off the market. Hopefully, the Sixers won't offer more or even match the offer.

Honestly, i don't expect Hawes back unless it's a one year deal, in case they decide to wait till next year to try to use the potential cap space.

He didn't get any offers last year, and he wasn't injured the year before.

Spencer Hawes isn't a priority for anyone - hell Chris Kaman is more of a priority, Hawes is like a third tier guy at best. Haven't heard anything about humphries either, and he's a guy teams might want to sign.

Hawes will sit there for a while, until teams go after players they want - then they go for the consolation prizes - like Hawes

Not worried at all

I think Monta Ellis had a similar deal. Five years/$55M, with a set salary of $11M each year and a player option for the last year.

But Monta Ellis has a bad deal :)

This was before the moped accident. He scored an efficent twenty points per game that year playing alongside Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson. Didn't fare so well when he become the primary option.

Stan reply to Cin on Jul 2 at 12:37

I think he's worth close to what Jameer got in 08'


I'm not saying their similar players but Jrue hasn't done anything special.

I wonder what Brandon Jennings will get.

He is far better now to what Nelson was back than. I understand wanting ti get a steal of a contract, but that's not how things work.

I think it's essential to lock Jrue up this year. I am kinda scared that he might be really good next year and warrant an even bigger contract. Restricted free agenccy is one of the biggest reasons why the economy in the NBA doesn't really work.

Lebron James averaged 18.8 ppg on 39% shooting vs. the Magic in 4 games last year.

Five years for George Hill and the Pacers. Bye bye Darren Collison?

Cab't blame Jrue for seeking a max contract. He's a better player than Thad, Lou, and Turner and those guys are going to make 5.8+ million next year.

The Six on Jul 2 at 13:18

I hope there is still a chance Moultrie can play in the summer league. I was looking forward to seeing him. High ankle sprain is tough however.

are you getting moultrie and anthony davis confused?

Nope, the news on Moultrie came out today as well.

So knowing the Magic appear to be following the path of a full rebuild, what will be paramount to them will be draft picks and cap space.

I think the Sixers best shot would be to amnesty Brand, trade enough young assets to take back Turkoglu's contract, then use the remaining cap space to take Howard and provide Orlando with a huge trade exception.

Something like this:
Sixers: D. Howard, Turkoglu
Orlando: Thad, Vucevic, [one of Turner, Moultrie or Harkless] and an unprotected 1st round pick.

Orlando ends up with 3 young pieces, $18 million trade exception, and a future first round pick. For 2012, assuming they take Moultrie, the Sixers have:
Iguodala, Harkless
Holiday, Turner
Howard, TBD
Turkoglu, TBD
Turner, Harkless

That could be really competitive and if you get Howard, a premier mid level exception veteran would want to come here.

For 2013 if there were a full reset you are look at:

Iguodala [if he doesn't opt out]
Turkoglu [for one more year]
plus $20 million in cap space to compete for a max free agent in a year heavy with max player free agent talent.

To me it is a win-win aggressive approach and a good risk. I'm betting that Orlando would try to hold out to have Holiday in the package of players instead of choice of Turner/Moultrie/Harkless.

At the end of the day this is a very competitive package for a one year rental and better than anyone else can likely match.

Unless they like Bynum enough to do Bynum plus two future #1's ... but those picks will be low picks and they don't get any salary flexibility.

If you ask me, if the Sixers are trying to do a deal they may have the best chance of any known contender.

Lavoy should be somewhere on your 2012 and 13 rosters too...unless they just signed him to that deal in order to make these #s work, hmm...

(From the unlikely but who the hell really knows department) Given the information below...is it at all possible/plausible that with Brand's $ off the books next year that A19 might well be amnestied to take advantage of an already good market next year?

•Bob Finnan of The News-Herald:

"...This time next year, a punitive or "super" luxury tax kicks in. The tax will be assessed at different levels based on the amount that a team is over the threshold. This year, it's a dollar-for-dollar tax. Starting next year, teams could pay $1.50 on the dollar, and up to $3.50. Experts predict teams will want to dump players — perhaps some very good ones — to stay out of that tax threshold. Teams with cap space could benefit greatly."

Rich reply to khouse on Jul 2 at 13:47

That's interesting. Hypothetically, the bidding for an amnestied Iguodala would be pretty insane.

khouse reply to khouse on Jul 2 at 13:47


Most of the Iguodala haters think he's going to opt out of the final year of his deal.

I kind of doubt they'll be anywhere near the tax line in 2013 unless they make a bunch of questionable decisions this summer. If they're nearing the tax because they got Dwight, and kept him, then they'll gladly pay for a year to put a contender on the floor.

how will brian get more depressed?

if derrick favors takes anthony davis team usa roster spot

Conley and Jrue are pretty good comps after their third seasons.

mchezo reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 15:41

could say the same for lou and chauncey...

Your point? I'm talking about the type of contract Jrue should command coming off his rookie contract. Did Chauncey get some kind of monster contract in that year? And why are we talking about Lou 4 years ago.

Maybe you meant Turner, which would also be irrelevant to this discussion.

two of my friends who are St Joe's grads just texted me saying that the reporter from Orlando who has been saying the sixers are involved in the dwight howard trade talks was just on 97.5FM in Philly. Supposedly he was saying there is a possibility of a multi team trade that the sixers would be involved in. Neither of them are sixers fans, but they were texting me because the reporter also said that the trade would most likely bring Jameer Nelson back to Philadelphia, so they were very excited. I told them I'm not really excited for that.

Anybody actually hear the interview?

If we are getting Nelson, I assume we are either trading Jrue or making him a SG. Neither of which I'm happy about.

Nelson is fucking garbage. Might as well re-sign Hawes.

Is that legal? (The garbage thing)

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 14:38

As long as he has consent from the garbage.

Ah, good point

Stan reply to Scott on Jul 2 at 14:40

He's a UFA so he can't be traded. Him coming to Philadelphia makes no sense. I could argue that Turner, Jrue, and Iguodala are better passers and ball handlers.

Scott reply to Stan on Jul 2 at 14:46

Had no idea he is an UFA. Hopefully we arent sending Jrue somewhere and then signing him. that would suck.

Well, could be a sign and trade. Let's hope not.

If I heard correctly, he was saying the deal the teams discussed back at the trade deadline would've sent Jameer to Philly.

Nelson as a backup PG at 3-4 million per year is OK i guess. However, the core needs to be set before acquiring role players. The core is far from set right now.

I was just looking at Jameer's career numbers, anyone else find it odd that he's never averaged more than 31.8 minutes/game for a season? That's incredibly low for a starting PG.

Sorry, 31.2 minutes. And it's not like they've had stud backups that needed time, either.

That's the Turkoglu factor there as he played point forward and a lot of the offense during their successful years ran through Hedo.

Yeah, but 30 minutes/game? I mean, Iguodala plays a lot of point forward for the Sixers, but Jrue was still between 34 and 36 minutes/game.

Probably dwight made them sit him

Still don't think it's a coincidence the only time they did anything in the playoffs was the year nelson was hurt and alston played the point.

buke reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 16:31

I watched them pretty closely during that run. Seems to me that Hedo was the primary playmaker even though Alston was the nominal point guard.

Nelson can't play off the ball.

Why are you wasting your time on the "worst pure pg" in the league?

I was trying to figure out why you think he's such a winner.

He was on a team that won games

Hence a winner

Don't forget that undefeated regular season in his college senior year...lots of wins there

Led Chester HS to 2000 PA State Championship. College Freshman Of The Year following season. Led the undefeated regular season Hawks to #1 seed, Final 8 during storied senior season. His Orlando arrival and good start helped move big name Stevie Francis to Knicks. Magic didn't rise from 21 wins to 52, 59, 59, 52 on their immature oak alone; his co-rook teammate, the little guy from deep southeastern Pennsylvania has been instrumental, has had a lot to do with it.

Besides talent/skills, ya gotta have toughness, savvy, heart and soul - Jameer brings it, not afraid of work; elevates others. Has limitations but is a winner with a capital W.

Career shooting:

Nash .491/.428/.904
Calderon .482/.381/.879
Rondo .481/.241/.619
Paull .472/.361/.854
Rose .464/.310/.815
A. Miller .458/.205/.807
Nelson .456/.388/.808
Holiday .440/.377/.798
Westbrook .430/.289/.818
Lowry .420/.330/.783

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a final 8 exit for a #1 seed a disappointment?


Petty point.

There's a bigger picture as you well know.

Open thine eyes.

What's the bigger picture? The guy has played his entire career w/ the best big man in the league and surrounded by knockdown shooters and statistically, he's been average. That's an indictment of his skills. I don't really care what he did in high school or college playing a BS conference. I'm just looking at the facts. I want no part of him.

The bigger picture is his winning effect and the breadth of his career - HS, College, NBA.

Nelson's casts have varied through time. STEADY winning is a highly credible indicator of skill and leadership.

You're an indictor of his game with sweeping statements (ex. "statistically he's been average"). Biases are fine, we all carry them. They don't lend to evaluative accuracy though.

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

The teams won
Jameer Nelson was on them
Jameer Nelson is a winner

I think more NBA teams should have signed will perdue...he was a winner

Or Scott Williams...

I suffered through that one with the rest of the fans from back in the '90s.

Dingleberry rides again!

Rich reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 2 at 17:59

Jrue won a state championship in high school too. I don't really see what that has anything to do with the type of basketball players they are now.

And I am a huge Jameer fan, always have rooted for the kid, but he hasn't been a very good basketball player the last couple of years. I think today's Jrue could have bettered those numbers playing with Dwight/shooters. Nice position for a point guard to succeed.

HOllinger article here (insider) talks about various trade scenarios for Dwight Howard

Five teams and possibilities discussed, Philadelphia not one of the five

sounds like joe johnson to the nets is done pending deron re-signs

What a stunning array of garabge

David Aldridge: Breaking: Nets "very close" to acquiring Joe Johnson from Hawks for Farmar, Petro, Morrow, Williams, Stevenson and protected pick (Houston). Twitter

I guess smaller shorter pieces easier to get rid of?

And who said that Billy King still wasn't a bad GM?:)

So Deron, Joe, Gerald Wallace, that's a medium three? A mediocre 3? Is that team even better than the sixers that made the second round if they find a PF?

So, Dwight only wants to be traded to Brooklyn, and Brooklyn seems to function as if they have no interest in Dwight...Dwights got a problem

It's not that NJ has no interest in Dwight, it's that Orlando has no interest in what Brooklyn has to offer.

So save your money until next off season when he's a free agent instead of wasting it on joe johnson and gerald wallace?

Tell Deron the plan - deron will stay

f Dwight really means he's only going to play for one team - then Brooklyn holds all the cards - this is dumber than when New York over paid for Carmelo

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 17:27

I refuse to believe BK is that inept, Dwight handed to him on a silver platter more or less, and he's going to drop said platter and break everything...for Joe Johnson?

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but he has to feel like he can either a) find a way to trade for Dwight right now or b) create enough flexibility somehow to fit him under the cap next year...

I have no problem believing that Billy King is one of the most inept GMs in the league...the willie green gift from god was evidence of that.

I think King is kind of effed right now. He can't sit on the cap space and lure Williams to sign. Right now, his priority is to get Deron. And he's going to back himself into a corner to do it. I don't think Deron would sign off on a plan to wait another year for Dwight. He's already wasted 1.5 years of his career on shit teams in New Jersey.

If Deron Williams primary concern is his contract size, then it's not as much of a corner as you think. Jersey gets him the most money, and he gets to live in new york which as I understand it some crazy people like to live in.

Unless Deron Williams explicitly said 'no more waiting for dwight, let's get mediocre right away' - I mean he can't think joe johnson and gerald wallace are the keys to an nba title can he?

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 17:39

King was just thrown into "Shark Tank" and got eaten up.

I don't understand why people thought Deron Williams would resign in Brooklyn automatically. He's from Dallas, and there's a pretty damn good player there. It's not as if Dwight is on fire right now, on or off the court.


At least according to one article I read that claimed to be quoting a friend of Deron's.

The anonymous source (and either they'll all accurate or none are ;) ) said that first and foremost Deron cared about money...

L. A. Steve on Jul 2 at 17:19

It's being reported on ComcastSportNet that Jrue Holiday is going to ask for a max deal after next season. Wow, he must have hired the Depressed Fan as his agent. That takes some balls if you ask me, the guy is still a developing player. He must have an high opinion of his skills if he think that he's a max guy.

It's called negotiating, the sixers don't often extend guys early anyway

Rich reply to L. A. Steve on Jul 2 at 17:26

"Wow, he must have hired the Depressed Fan as his agent."

Read the thread please.

I wonder if King just felt he had to do something, anything, because he felt Deron just might bolt for the Mavs? If so, he is so dumb.

Joe Johnson quietly was very good last year, but man, that contract. Just kills all flexibility.

They can afford to re-sign Williams, Wallace, and then RFA Lopez, and maybe even Humphries if they have his bird rights. Still have a shot-creator in MarShon Brooks as 6th man, too.

How much better does Wiliams make Johnson/Wallace/Humphries/Lopez/

Another really good part of all this is how Danny Ferry was able to trade that contract. Pretty impressive.

I wonder if this changes Josh Smiths mind
Maybe he hated it all being about Joe?

buke reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 17:47

Yes and in the process he was able to acquire the bottom of his bench in a single move. Well, he did get one very good shooter in Morrow. Wonder if this is a signal that the Hawks are prepared to go into full blast rebuilding mode. Maybe when it's all said and done they'll need to start Petro some games this year.

Yeah, I think Ferry's first order of business is to unfuck that roster. Wonder if he'd be willing to move Horford.

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 17:52

I don't get why he would move Horford. He's one of the better PFs in the league, he's only 26 years old and he's only making $12 million a year. You'd have to give me someone like Favors in order to move him.

Is turner like favors?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 18:00


That's all I have to say.

buke reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 17:57

I guess it would be a relief to start a high pressure job like that with such clear and attainable objectives. I hope they keep Horford at least as he will be less dangerous there than almost anywhere else. We no longer need him, of course, since we drafted Moultrie and resigned Lavoy.

Stan reply to buke on Jul 2 at 17:57

It would be funny if the deal wasn't contingent on having Deron Williams re-sign with Brooklyn. Atlanta could go out and sign Deron, then amnesty Williams and sign Howard in free agency. I think it could work salary wise.

Stan reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 17:50

He lucked into it. Don't make Dan Ferry into something he's not.

Rich reply to Stan on Jul 2 at 18:06

Who cares how he did it? That's an excellent long-term move. I'm tired of people thinking GM's are like players. Some have the ability to adapt and learn from past mistakes. Also, it's not as if that Cleveland situation was a very common one. He was being held up by one guy the whole time, so he gambled and made some shortsighted moves, and lost. Totally different spot in Atlanta.

Dwight's from Atlanta. Curious what he'd think about playing there.

Stan reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 18:12

Because it's a matter of assessing credit. Billy King would have looked like a genius if the Nets had gotten the #1 overall pick, traded it for Howard, kept Wallace and re-signed Williams.

Ferry lucked into a situation where a desperate GM was willing to take on a burdensome contract in order to field a mediocre team as quickly as possible.

I'm not saying he's a bad GM, but I refuse to give him credit for this or sulk about how the Sixers missed out on him.

Hey - give Danny Ferry credit for taking advantage of a bad GM - knowing who you can take advantage of and how much you can is a good skill for a GM - Ferry gets credit for knowing Billy King was an idiot :)

Rich reply to Stan on Jul 2 at 18:18

A GM's job is to do the best job with his group of personnel. Assessing GMs has always been difficult. Obviously there are really well-run organizations like San Antonio, but you assess the job that guy does with his particular team.

That's why nobody should be sulking about the Sixers not signing him. He would have had different personnel to deal with. But, with Atlanta's personnel, he gets an "A" so far. Good GM's take advantage of dumb ones.

Couldn't agree more.

stan reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 18:25

Ed Stefanski started out with an A :)

I honestly can't say what happened to Dumars. I thought that guy was a genius 5 years ago.

How much of that team did dumars actualy build and how much was there when he got there?

I think B.Wallace and Prince were there, but he got Billups and R.Wallace. He did a great job back than but completely lost it since.

Well - he lost it a while ago - over paying Gordon and Villanueva - getting some help from the bobcats was nice - I don't know how new owner feels about the amnesty - but using it on Villanueva next year when Maggette expires might be good.

They do have one solid piece in greg monroe

stan reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 20:27

He took over in 2000. So he gets credit for drafting Prince and trading for B Wallace and Prince.


"Nelson, of course, is the Chester High and St. Joe’s All-American and All-Star for the Orlando Magic who opted out of the last year of his five-year, $38 million deal to become an unrestricted free agent. Nelson will talk to the Magic first, but there are whispers he is interested in returning home to play for the Sixers.

Nelson could be the veteran point guard to transform the Sixers and be a mentor to 21-year-old Jrue Holiday. Moreover, Nelson just turned 30 and certainly has a few solid seasons left, which might not be the same for Hinrich."

How the fuck do these guys get jobs. He's the last person I want mentoring Jrue and I'm pretty sure he has MAYBE one or two subpar seasons left in him before going to china.

Yeah, what exactly would he be transforming the sixers into ?


I'm just really hoping we trade iggy and amnesty brand and start creating cap space to make some real moves next summer. Let hawes walk, don't pay lou more than 6mil a year.

Stan reply to Mike on Jul 2 at 17:58

What moves? What free agent is going to sign with a team composed of Turner and Jrue? You need Iguodala to attract good free agents.

Mike reply to Stan on Jul 2 at 18:02

That's true. I've been lurking on this blog for over a year but decided to finally start posting. It's nice to talk this team this with mostly rational and logical people. I'm just so tired of this team being mediocre. The Sixers are my favorite team and basketball is my favorite sport. The 2001 run was probably the best year of my life as a fan.

Your plan isn't a short term plan though - it's a long term plan - yes the sixers won't attract free agents this off season but really if they keep Iguodala they aren't going to anyway...I adovcate your plan but it's a long term plan, it's not one of winning or even making the playoffs the next couple seasons as you build a team built to win a title, not just win a round in theplayoffs depending on an injury

Mike reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 18:37

Exactly. I can deal with 2-3 bad seasons if it sets us up for 5+ years of being competitive, relevant, and having a chance at a title.

Well, like it or not, you're on 'my side of the street' then - i've been advocating this for a while now (like since they traded Iverson and Iguodala was still young :) )

I don't expect they'll do it though, not if Doug Collins really is in charge and not when the new owners see the gate from two rounds of home playoff games

Mike reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 19:01

The biggest problem with trying to compete now is I don't see us getting pass miami, or through some miracle, OKC no matter what we do. The new owners have to realize this. 5 years from now Lebron will be in his mid 30s, Wade will be retired probably, and that's when we could make a move at really doing something special.

I wonder its Philly has a trade agreement in place with someone that is pending another move. Like Iguodala to Toronto if they sign Nash. Didn't the Suns. always want to pair those two after they let Joe Johson get away?

So the Nets won't wait for Williams, the Johnson trade will happen. Wow!!!


This trade can't be executed until the amnesty period is ended (Deshawn Stephenson has to be a sign & trade in the deal).

Somehow I think the nets will know what Deron Williams is doing before then

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 18:05

It will only be official on July 11th

The rumor was they weren't going to pull the trigger if Deron walked. I think they're saying that isn't the case anymore.

I still see multiple reports both ways - and july 11th is 9 days away

This does throw a major wrinkle in Dwight's plans, though. If Deron comes back, there's no way the Nets can be players for him in free agency. If Orlando trades him elsewhere, he's going to have to find a different destination in free agency anyway. His "I'll only re-sign with Brooklyn" ultimatum has no teeth if Brooklyn doesn't have the money to sign him as a FA.

Well i guess they can try to trade Wallace to increase their cap space but... Yeah it's gonna be very hard. Honestly i think Howard will want to go wherever the media will say is the best place for him (both for winning and his brand).

Has Dwight himself ever said outloud "It is only New Jersey" - all I read is that he said it was one team - now he can just pick a different team :)

stan reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 18:21

This puts Boston into play as well for next year. Some people regard Rondo as the best PG in the NBA.

Just going online and on SportsCenter: Hawks have agreed in principle to deal Marvin Williams to Utah for Devin Harris to shed even more $

Danny Ferry knows how to tear down a house

One day, two monumental mistakes dealt with.

And still has Josh Smith to trade to get assets.

I mean, sure he wouldn't have had any power in Philadelphia, but must say Danny Ferry looks like he would have had the chops to do some serious remodeling.

Josh Smith is still on the hook too

In my opinion it's easier to clear some salary than acquire assets. Let's see who he brings in around Horford.

I'm glad that's your opinion
But until you clear salary you can't bring in assets
If you don't think the Hawks are in a better position to build an improving team than they were yesterday, fine, but they have the ability to maneuver where before they didn't.

This instant gratification society screws intelligent patient team building

That they are now in a position to build isn't a guarantee they will be better.

WHy didn't anyone tell me
This changes everything
Oh wait - NO DUH

And if the hawks sat on their ass and didn't make a move - you know what would have been guaranteed - NOTHING - not a title, not a conference finals, hell not even a playoff round victory...

But - you're right - staying still in mediocrity in perpetuity makes sense unless you have a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT GUARANTEE that you'll get better.

You are rod thorns son

I'm saying judge the results, not the process. If all he does amounts to continued mediocrity, what does it matter how they got there?

I can judge the man making an EFFORT to try and improve his mediocre franchise while the sixers do nothing but continue to wallow in their mediocrity.

Doing something is better than doing nothing when you're team has no way up in the future...in the NBA creating cap space is important, please don't sit here and say these aren't good moves because you don't know the end result...that's just ridiculous...Ferry obviously has a plan - and he's aggressively executing it to try and reset a franchise tied down with bad contracts that can't even get out of the first round of the playoffs.

The sixers on the other hand seem to have their thumbs up their asses, enjoying their 7 layer dip at chilis.

It's obvious which plan you think is better, because well, doing nothing at least guarantees nothing bad

And just like that, dwight's 'one team' changes according to ric bucher

Source: With Nets out of equation, Mavs go to top of Dwight Howard's wish list. No other teams - Lakers included - on it. For now.

Tomorrow, who knows with this guy.

Prob best option RT @WindhorstESPN: Considering Atlanta is home + friends Josh Smith & Morrow are Hawks, new option for Dwight Howard?

I wondered if maybe they were doing all this maneuvering to get Dwight, like somehow they had some back channel contact from agent or family that if they had the money dwight would sign there.

Thing is, and this article has been written a lot of places, from a lot of players point of views, playing at home is usually not good for an athlete, too many demands...

Alex Kennedy‏@AlexKennedyNBA

Lakers' restricted free agent Devin Ebanks has drawn interest from the Magic, Thunder, Nets, Hawks and 76ers

Anyone like this? Have no idea what it would take but it tells me the front office is at least considering out of the box ideas, which is encouraging.

See page 2 of this article for more on Ebanks possibly being undervalued according to advanced metrics

Rich reply to JL31 on Jul 2 at 20:45

Collins wants to get bigger on the wings, but again, it doesn't solve the shooting holes.

eddies' heady's reply to JL31 on Jul 3 at 0:02

Isn't Ebanks kind of similar to Harkless minus the athleticism?

You know - I understand that you shouldn't make moves unless you are guaranteed to get better - because as everyone knows - you only take chances if you know the outcome, but the hawks are now in a position to keep josh smith, make a play for dwight howard (if he wants to play at home with his good friend Josh Smith) and oh yeah, make a run at chris paul too.

A plan to try and get better, even if you fail, is better than sitting stuck in mediocrity because of a lack of guaranteee

I see you have taken to talking to yourself.

Spencer for hire on Jul 2 at 20:50

The hell with Dwight Howard!!!! Let's help him go to Atlanta to team with Josh Smith by offering cap room [Elton amnesty] and some young cheap assets for Horford.

given a choice between Horford and Williams - who would you prefer?

If they could get Horford w/out giving up Iguodala and/or Jrue, I'd take Horford.

Well - if the hawks are in a cap clearing bonanza and horford is on the table - it seems pretty easy to get done - even Collins coudn't screw it up (well he could).

It's interesting, because first it was 'josh smith' wants out around the draft - then you hear rumbles of joe johnson to the nets - then danny ferry is tearing down the house.

I don't think Horford would be part of the plan - wouldn't he work next to dwight howard?

Or be needed to get dwight howard?:)

Spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 21:01

They would want shooters but Moultrie and his "stretch pf " game along with a young sf in Harkness and Vuce could work. Atlanta has a p.g. already.


Or they might just want cap - dependson the plan
if they are targeting Howard and CP3 while still keeping josh smith - that trade exception could be mighty powerful

They can have turner, moultrie or moe - all three of em if they want :)

Spencer for hire reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 20:57

I agree, he is under contract and not a possible one year rental.

Oh I was just asking skill wise, not contract wise

Spencer for hire reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 21:07

I am so tired of Howard's act I would probably take Horford. Using an analogy from past arguments on here, Iggy at 14 million or Anthony at 22 million, would you rather have Horford at his price or Howard at his?

Well, if you've read my comments, I wouldn't give up anyone I value to get Dwight howard on the sixers roster next year :)

Pretty sure the question was Horford or Williams. At least that's the question I was answering. Horford or Dwight...depends on what you have to give up. In a vacuum, it's Dwight and it's not even close.

@jwquick: Agent Greg Lawrence says Blazers have shown interest in unrestricted free agent Spencer Hawes

Unfortunately, it's from Hawes' fucking agent. What's he going to say, "No one likes my clients because he sucks ass?"

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 1:14

I feel like Hawes in ultra liberal Portland would make for an excellent sitcom that I would very much enjoy

So Espn says Nicolas Batum is Minny's 'plan a', however,

The Wolves, like every team, have Plans B and C. It involves possibly trading for Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala, although the source said that contract is troublesome.

I really can't believe there are people inthis league who still say his contract is 'troublesome' and yet Joe Frigging Johnson gets traded in like 2 days

A two-year contract is troublesome...that's fine. Sign Batum for $50M/4 years, that won't be troublesome at all when he gives you 50% of what Iguodala does.

I like the fact that it sort of implies that Plan b and c are the same :)

Spencer for hire reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 21:10

Does Batum sign an offer sheet before the Hibbert situation gets straightened out?

One can shoot, the other can't. It matters. No matter what the Iguodala Club says, both on the scoreboard and in the negotiating room.

Yeah, Iggy (& agent) went into Stefanski's office one ill-fated summer morning and said, I just scored 19 ppg for this organization but I intend to recede to 12 a game by 2012 and become a defensive specialist, ad hoc playmaker and team spokesman with phony specs. Now, pony up 80 million or I'm gone. Ed, having just driven back from a long, happy night of oldies at the Springfield Inn, said Dre, you're stupendous and, as your luck would have it, I'm currently stupid - sign here please.

One scores points
and does nothing else
one is one of the better all around basketball playersin the nba

There's a reason lebon james is the best PLAYER in the league but Kevin Durant is the best scorer

Igg a Dolla!
Igg a Dolla!
Igg a Dolla!
Hail, hail,
Igg a Dolla!

Just FYI iguodala shot better from three than both of those guys last year. And my guess would be he was much better in catch-and-shoot situations.

Shush now, facts confuse the elderly

Hobbes reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 22:10

Should we include all the facts? Such as the near across-the-board better shooting numbers from various locations on the court? Or that last year reads like a statistical anomaly for Iggy at the 3pt line? That, career-wise, both of the others are better 3pt shooters than our Iggy (jenuflect), and by several digits?

Not really sure what jenufelction (or even genuflection) has to do with anything.

However, if all the facts count, the corrective eye surgery Andre Iguodala had during the off season probably should come into play shouldn't it?

Hobbes reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 22:21

So that's it?! Eye surgery's been the only thing standing in the way of a proficient jumper!?

Doesn't explain the FT% issue, but it's still my favorite post EVER!

Better shooting on long twos doesn't really excite me.

Hobbes reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 23:44

Well, that's okay. Over the last four years, Batum looks better than Iggy at short range (3-9 ft) and mid-range (10-15 ft), too.

Same goes for Johnson.

All that aside, I don't aim to argue w you, Brian. You run a good blog and write smart stuff. And while you're right that Iggy has been many things, a good shooter isn't one of them and posters aren't off-base to point that out.

People keep having different arguments than I am. Maybe I'm confused. Thought we were talking about the Olympic Team, and Iguodala vs. Gay and Gordon. I don't know how Batum and Johnson got into the comparison.

Colangelo said there are six players vying for three spots: Harden, Blake Griffin, Rudy Gay, Iguodala, Eric Gordon and Anthony Davis.

Man - rudy gay can score 20 points a game

Well, Davis is hurt. So it's really a group of five. I'd take Harden, Griffin, Iguodala. But that's just me. Feel like they've got enough guys who can go out and score a bunch, better served having a defensive wing on the squad over Gordon and Gay.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 21:18

Unless he gets hurt, I really think he's going to make this team. Could have a bigger role than some suspect, too.

If he's staying, I'd rather he didn't make the team so he can rest up. If he leaves, I hope he goes to London and kicks ass.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 21:37

Well, you should probably want him gone, because he has a role on this team, even more of one with his defensive versatility. He played some 4, at least on defense, for Coach K in the 2010 World Championships.

Oh please let dwight howard go to the clippers- that would be awesome

I think Iguodala will make the team, but unless we trade him I wish he wouldn't. His wheels are starting to seem as stable as Chase Utley's.

Who could Philly possible want in an Iguodala trade with Minnesota. That makes no sense to me.

If it turns out the Sixers are part of a deal that gets them Howard, Bynum or Horford out of all this mess, without trading Iguodala or Holiday, it will be worth all the quiet in the early going here.

I think Iguodala will make the team, but unless we trade him I wish he wouldn't. His wheels are starting to seem as stable as Chase Utley's.

Who could Philly possible want in an Iguodala trade with Minnesota. That makes no sense to me.

If it turns out the Sixers are part of a deal that gets them Howard, Bynum or Horford out of all this mess, without trading Iguodala or Holiday, it will be worth all the quiet in the early going here.

The Six on Jul 2 at 22:12

Looking at the job Ferry is doing in Atlanta really makes me wish the Sixers would have given him the power that he wanted (assuming that is the main reason he didn't become GM in Philadelphia). In two days he has gotten rid of one of the worst contracts in the whole NBA (if not the worst), and put Atlanta in position to make a run at Howard.

I'm under no illusions that Ferry would have made the Sixers a player for Howard. Obviously his ties to Atlanta are very strong. But this Sixers team needs an outsider's perspective IMO, and Ferry would have been able to make an honest assessment of this team and make the right moves.

Stan reply to The Six on Jul 2 at 22:28

We'll wait and see. I doubt Ferry would have come in and made drastic changes to the Sixers' roster. He lucked into a situation where he found a desperate/idiot GM.

We'll see if he trades Smith and/or Horford and what he can get in return. We'll see what he does with all of this cap space.

Or he 'lucked' into ownership that realized the franchise has been treading water for a while and that to move forward you might have to move backward until you find the new path...which I don't think sixers ownership understands

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 22:50

True, very true. Some owners out there might not be willing to trade one of their franchise players even if he was going to handicap them in the future.

I think this is less of a "we're too mediocre" thing, and more of a "Jesus, we're going to be big taxpayers" thing.

I actually would be a little excited if our starting swingman could make mid-range jump shots at a better clip than the Birdman. Not that Johnson wouldn't be a huge setback in other ways.

eddies' heady's on Jul 3 at 0:11

Can someone lend me some insight into why Utah would do that Marvin Williams deal with Atlanta? Are they gonna start Mo Williams now at PG? And with their glut of big men their most successful lineup at the end of the year was with Millsap at the 3 right? Are they wanting Marving to be their starter at SF or something? With Gordon Hayward starting at SG?

setting up the Williams/Kanter for Iggy/Vuc trade.

Greg reply to sfw on Jul 3 at 8:01

Would rather have Favors.

sfw reply to Greg on Jul 3 at 8:13

Unfortunately, Utah also prefers Favors.

There is still a chance that Orlando Magic star Dwight Howard could become a member of the Brooklyn Nets, according to league sources. The Nets and the Orlando Magic are discussing a trade that would send Howard to the Nets for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and the Nets' first-round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017, sources said. ESPN.com

from Tom Moore's twitter account-

Tom Moore ‏@tmoorepburbs
LA Times: FA Jamal Crawford meeting today with Lakers, who could offer deal starting at $5 mill. Sixers believed to have interest in him.

Do it Lakers.

This Nets/Dwight rumor has to be misinformed, right? I mean, Brook Lopez and Kris Humphries for too much money, and three picks which are sure to be in the late twenties? Marshon Brooks is going to be the best player Orlando gets back, and he really isn't very good.

ItAintEZ reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 9:07

I have been hearing Brousard all morning talking about this and he never seems to mention any of the issues with this deal. The players involved have to agree to the sign and trade and the draft picks might as well be 2nd rounders.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 9:16

I'm hoping so. I really want the Nets to fail, and I'm hoping Dwight doesn't get his wish just top be spiteful.

I really don't see why Orlando makes that trade when every other team could offer better, and at least a handful of teams reportedly would without the assurance of an extension.

So apparently a third team would have to be involved to take on Humphries in a sign and trade. If that third team is the Sixers, I won't be pleased.

I don't see why a third team would be involved at all when they can just sign Humphries as a free agent. Why facilitate a deal between Orlando and Brooklyn unless they get New Jersey's 2019 first rounder as a bonus or something.

I don't see how this can happen now. Two factors if I understand the rules right.

I think they'd need to sign Howard first, then even though over the cap they could re-sign their own guy in D. Williams.

However, Lopez is being reported as part of the deal. If they sign him, I don't think they can trade him until December ... so this deal couldn't get done until well after the season starts, right?

I think Broussard will report anything to get all the air time he can in the NY market. All that has to be true is that someone told him it was discussed ... doesn't even have to be a possibility for these guys to report it if they can seize a media cycle.

Can someone check me on whether I have these rules right?

They can sign and trade Brook Lopez. Of course, he'd have to want to go to Orlando and agree to the deal. The big catch here, besides the package being completely shitty, is Humphries is an unrestricted free agent. If anyone signs him besides the Nets, he just walks and there's nothing they can do about it, and this whole thing blows up.

So three ways this deal dies #1: Brook Lopez decides he doesn't want to go to Orlando, or he signs an offer sheet w/ someone else (can't sign-and-trade a matched offer sheet). #2: Humphries decides he wants to sign somewhere else, or maybe he just wants to test the market. Or no team is willing to just absorb him into cap space for no reason other than to help the Nets out. #3: Orlando realizes this offer is complete bullshit.

I think their window for a sign and trade is 3 days from what I read also - otherwise Lopez cannot be traded until December.

Orlando's GM doesn't seem stupid enough to cave and not get a good deal back. Lopez, the 25th pick in last year's draft and Humphries (I don't understand either as he's UFA) isn't close.

Orlandos GM hasn't done anything yet of significance, it's hard to say whether he seems stupid or not yet.

This is a team without a coach even

What do you guys think about Hibbert? Reports are saying that Indiana is only 50/50 to match, and if they can find somewhat of a replacement (Kaman, Hawes, ew) they'll let him walk to the Blazers.

Even though the offer sheet is large, they HAVE to match right? Hibbert is the difference between possible contention and mediocrity to me.

I always thought Hibbert was underutilized, I guess the question is why. Maybe he can't handle a bigger workload. Not sure. I'd be surprised if they didn't match, though.

Or he's the difference between over paying and being capped out and building a better team over all.

It's too much money for Hibbert, he's good, yes, he's not a max player...interesting that Pritchards former team is putting him on the hot seat his first month in the job

Stan reply to Ryan F on Jul 3 at 11:12

Has Hibbert signed the offer sheet yet? What's his max? 4 years and 62 million?

I doubt they let him walk. The Sixers are a better team than the Pacers without Hibbert. Maybe they should do a sign and trade for Howard :)

What would piss you off more- Howard going to Boston or Brooklyn?

Is Boston a realistic option?

Would be next summer, I think. Wait, they extended KG, right? I guess it depends on whether they bring Ray Allen back, for how long and at what price. Also saw they're trying to bring Bass back.

Yeah, but Dwight (according to reports) is kind of a big pussy and wants to go somewhere without a history of quality big men (or anything probably since he doesn't want to go to Chicago). I doubt he'd be interested in playing for a team with such a storied history and history of big men that Dwight might have to live up to.

I mean if he's afraid to be compared to Shaq, what would he think about being compared to the Boston greats, he might just break down and cry

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 11:34

I think they're only committed to $42 million for next year. The off season isn't over yet and they still haven't filled out their roster yet.

It was basically a hypothetical for me.

Howard going to Boston would piss me off because it would feed into arrogance of the Boston fanbase and how they believe that they are the "basketball mecca". Seeing KG and Pierce win another championship and make speeches about how "no one believed in them" would make me stop watching basketball.

Howard going to Brooklyn would piss me off because it's a money driven market fueled by douchebags who are more interested in their brands than winning a championship.

I've never heard Boston referred to as a basketball mecca, even by Boston fans. I've heard New York referred to as a basketball mecca.

At what salary level does the amount of money a person makes stop being ok as the reason to get a new job? I've always been curious about that.

if I left my job (and my company in lurch) for 50% more salary - no one (but my company) would blame me - in sports - if you leave somewhere for more money you're a greedy bastard...at what salary level does the american form of business (capitalism) stop being ok?

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 3 at 11:43

You probably haven't hung out with enough Boston people then. Arrogance knows no bounds.

Well - I'm married to someone from Boston...and my sister works at MIT :)

mymanjrue reply to GoSixers on Jul 4 at 5:52

madison square garden is commonly referred to as the "mecca of basetball"

but boston has 17 banners. you honestly have never picked up on the fact that celtcs fans believe the celtcs to be the Chosen Team?

Rich reply to Stan on Jul 3 at 11:20

Boston, but they'd have to wait the whole season. They don't have anything Orlando would want outside of Avery Bradley and possibly Sullinger.

Would they even have the space next year to do that?

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Think it depends on what they do w/ Bass/Allen this summer. When does Pierce's deal expire?

Pierece has a player option for 13/14

Deron Williams
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Dwight Howard

Can that team - coached by the little general - take out the heat in the playoffs?

Any team with Dwight and a legit point guard can take out the Heat, imo.

Pierce has a player option for 15 mil. Best believe that gets signed.

Add that with Garnett (11), Rondo (12) and they'd probably be an option with those guys the only ones guaranteed now. They'll probably pay Allen/Bass/Bradley, so I guess they could at the very least sign and trade depending on what they sign those guys to.

I'd really prefer if we didn't wind up with another super team, though. This is getting tiresome.

Well see, the new CBA still made it possible (obviously) and multi billion dollar owners who see teams as 'shiny things' and want the best shiny thing will continue to spend.

Sadly, we don't root for a team with a shiny thing.

As for the super team concept, it seems that depending on how you build it people complain less.

Heat - bad
OKC - it's ok
Lakers - didn't hear a lot of complaining about it being unfair they had a super team.

So - if you have 2 of your stars via the draft it's ok?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 3 at 11:43

I think it's worse when a team trades their superstar away in exchange for garbage. You can't control the draft lottery, a prospect or a player's mind in free agency, but it's frustrating when another team contributes to the problem in the NBA.

Is it better than when a team desperately tries to make the superstar happy with a series of bad trades but then the super star leaves and they're left with nothing?

Lebron's greatest sin (in my mind) isn't the decision, it's the fact that he lied to the cavs, he should have told them he was going to miami the moment he knew.

PS - Broussard in CYA mode - Nets move not imminent - Magic not talking to Nets - talking to Lakers, Rockets, Mavs

The Six on Jul 3 at 12:45

Are the sixers even going to try and upgrade the C position? Are they going to meet with any FA/RFA's?

I mean...Jordan Hill is not Dwight Howard but he is certainly an upgrade over what the team has now. Can they at least look at him? And zero interest in Javale McGee? I would just love to know if there is any semblance of a plan with this front office.

Dont commit to anything long term and save cap space for next off-season seems like a good plan to me.

The Six reply to Jeff on Jul 3 at 12:54

You must have a lot of faith in this group. I don't.

buke reply to Jeff on Jul 3 at 13:29

Well, OK, but when next summer comes around the sea of free agent opportunity may be much shallower than it appears now. Sure, there are a lot of quality names among potential 2013 free agents but many of them seem like they may fall into the "unlikely to materialize" category.

I'm not suggesting that the Sixers should go full tilt this summer but spending something and/or making a trade to address at least one critical need would be most welcome.

The point i was making was that if theyre going to go all out on a FA signing i'd prefer if it was with a better supply in next year's.

buke reply to Jeff on Jul 3 at 14:31

I understand. I'm just not sure that the available supply then will be as good as it looks now and if they can address current needs at reasonable cost I'd like them to be a little more aggressive about doing it.

Which costs so far have you found reasonable?

George Hill?
Landry Fields?
Omer Asik?
Roy HIbbert?
Steve Nash (3 years 36 million)?

Cause it seems to me that reasonable and nba free agency go together like Rush Limbaugh and Anderson Cooper

I would prefer for them to go about their needs by re uilding and only target a FA if it's a star.

The Six reply to Jeff on Jul 3 at 14:40

I get what you are saying, except there are just not enough stars to go around. Howard isn't coming here this summer, and Chris Paul will not be a sixer in 2013. Who are you looking for?

You know

Deron Williams wasn't available

Then Billy King picked up the phone, and made a call, and Deron Williams was on the nets, before most teams knew he was available.

A lot of things go on in the NBA that the fans are not aware of, they want immediate results, they demand action, and inaction seems the same to many as doing nothing, so when there's cap room they demand free agents be signed, no matter who they are, so that the team is 'doing something'

Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do

Any would be great, but if you cant land one you focus on rebuilding. They cant win a championship with the roster as is, and we've already seen enough examples of teams use up cap space on dumb signings that only makes them marginally better while crippling any type of roster flexibility.


The Six reply to Jeff on Jul 3 at 14:54