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No Reason For Hope

Nick Young. Interesting. Bye Lou?

Well, I agree with much of what you say, but why do you think they did sign him to a two year deal instead of a longer contract? And I also completely disagree with claiming that the Harkless pick wasn't "swinging for the fences" at least in their minds. It definitely was not about addressing a need as you point out. Looking at a possible silver lining, these two moves together could be interpreted as the organization looking a few years in the future. In two years, Jrue will be entering his prime (and so will Turner if he has one), and if they were blown away by Harkless, he should be ready to contribute at a high level in two years. Hawes and Iguodala come off the books at that point (if they don't trade Iguodala before then), so they will have lots of cap space and could possibly sign a big name to go with the young guys coming into their own.

This might just be very wishful thinking, but you can at least see some form of logic there.

is nick young for 1 year better then lou for 3 or 4 years?

Willie green for 1 year is better than lou for 3 or 4 years

watch, the sixers will now go out and overpay lou for no good reason

Well - yeah - as soon as they over paid Spencer for no good reason you had to expect it with Lou too, only difference is that there's probably some demand for lou out there so the contract will probably suck even more cause they gotta pay him to stay - and you know - lou puts up starters numbers - so he should be paid like one

Anyone can confirm the sixers signed nick young?

Personally I don't think that means Lou is gone, slide Nick between Jrue and Evan and it's gold Jerry, GOLD

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 11:08

Only way lou can come back is if the sixers go over the luxury tax, which I don't see the owners paying.

See below, they're going to amnesty Brand.

It's amazing how even when they do what I think they should do they manage to take all the wind out of the sails of the move.

Nick Young - how many chuckers do the sixers need really? Is it required that ever since Iverson was on the team, chuckers are necessary or the sixers aren't the sixers?

The 76ers have decided to use the amnesty clause on Elton Brand and the $18M left on final year of his deal, league sources tell Y! Sports.

I'd prefer Brand to Nick Young and Spencer Hawes with that money.

You know, I thought when I pushed for it all darn season I'd be happy when they finally did it. Now, it just seems like it's not about rebuilding, it's about tax savings...they won't use it intelligently, but now they can afford to keep Lou without the luxury tax.

Is this the first confirmed amnesty of the off season?

Someone will claim Brand I bet, a couple million, off the bench, he makes a team stronger

The Six reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 11:10

Mixed feelings on this. Maybe they tried to re-sign to a reasonable 2 year deal(which I was hoping for), but he still would have taken a big reduction on salary. I really like Brand. He is still tough but he just doesn't have much left in the tank.

Jason reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 11:11

So Thaddeus young our starting 4 next season?

Moultrie right?

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 11:13

Him and Spencer Hawes were meant to play together. Good god, I hope we trade Iggy, Is there really any point to keep him on this sinking ship? If we do I think we can contend with the bobcats next year.

I hope they trade Iguodala too, and I believe they will, but I no longer believe it will be a smart move, it'll be at best lateral.

This probably means that Iguodala will be traded for one of Utahs numerous power forwards


Sad about Brand. Never had the impact here that was expected by him or the fans, but was a great professional and his effort was always there.

Some reason I'm getting the feeling the Iguodala trade for veteran big is right around the corner.

sfw reply to Ryan F on Jul 6 at 11:26

I agree but I think it will be as a third team to facilitate a sign and trade. Not necessary for a veteran power forward.

The sixers starting power forward at this moment is either Lavoy Allen or Moultrie

I'm 80% sure this is the first shoe to drop in the Andre Iguodala for a PF move

If that PF is Kris Humphries - I'm going to cry

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 11:29

Derrick Williams with Darko.

I'd prefer that to Kris Humphries - but Thorn denied that publicly :)

I honestly don't have the energy to look this up, but Nick Young is being signed for more than the MLE, meaning they're getting under the cap w/ the amnesty, meaning they don't have the MLE at their disposal.

Cause Nick Young is worth more than the MLE

Come on - I mean did they even call Ray Allen?

I'm at a loss for what the point is of 1 year of Nick Young.

Well - if they had signed Spencer for one year, one could argue that the sixers might turn andre iguodala into al jefferson and then after next season spencer, nick, and al expire

But the sixers gave spencer two years

So, well, um, maybe he's here to mentor Evan Turner into being a crappy shooter (which could be a step up for evan?)

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 11:24

Young will look like Ray Allen compared to the shooters the sixers have now. That being said, I didn't want him. There is a reason why he has been moved around so much during his young career. He just guns it from anywhere/everywhere with no discipline.

So I was right, he's a mentor for evan turner

Nick Young has been moved once - he was traded to the Clips mid-season last year.

I can't believe this is his 5th year in the league already. He *did* shoot 44% two years ago, averaged around 16 chucks a game.

The Six reply to Rodney Buford on Jul 6 at 11:32

Yes. So the sixers will be 3 teams in 5 years.

Except he's been 'moved' only once in his career, from Washington to the Clippers

And the clippers don't need him any more cause, you know, they signed jamal crawford.

The funny thing is - given those two contracts, Nick Young is the better deal.

That's how very bad the clippers are

I'm with you, I just don't see the big deal. He was going to be a FA so the wizards flipped him to a playoff team. He subsequently became a FA and signed elsewhere.

I don't hold that as a negative. There are plenty of other negatives in his skill set :)

Rodney, he has some of your game!

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:14

Ray Allen wasn't coming here. The Sixers would have had to way overpay years-wise to get him.

And yet - without calling him - you never know...if you're going to throw stupid money at players - at least throw it at good players

Ray Allen - 2 years - 12-15 million dollars

Better than Nick Young for 1 year at 6 million

Closer to Boston and his sick kid

And the opportunity to stick it Boston


You don't know if they called or not.

I've seen up to 7 teams been attached to having an interest in Ray Allen - from numerous sources

None of them ever reported the sixers

Nothing that happened with the Sixers this season was ever reported until it actually happened. Harkless, draft day trade, Allen contract, Hawes contract, Brand amnesty, Young contract... Nothing was reported before it happened.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:36

I would have been fine with that deal, but as Xsago said, you don't know what happened. Just because you read a HoopsHype rumor, that doesn't mean it's exactly what happened. GM's call each other agents all the time.

It could have been a call, he said no way (Why wouldn't he? He doesn't want to "stick it to Boston"). It probably happened that way, especially because Boston was initially in position offer him exactly what you proposed and apparently wanted him back. He seems like he wants a title.

Just please don't say "THEY DIDN"T EVEN CALL RAY ALLEN" and add that to the "COLLINS SUCKS" all offseason. The decision makers have plenty of real, tangible stuff that fits in their files.

Thoughts on N Young as a spot up shooter between Jrue and Iguodala?

If he was a good shooter I'd be psyched.

Now - close your eyes - and imagine him between Jrue and Turner


Jesse reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 11:50

He has good career 3pt shooting numbers, and he does........nothing else well.

So he's not even as good as Kyle Korver?

Here's my bet. Sixers send Iguodala to Orlando, Humphries comes to Philly, Dwight goes to New Jersey.

Sure kick a guy in the nuts after he endures that torture thing they did to daniel craig in Casino Royale (what sick bastard thought that up by the way)

Alvin reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 11:35

good call, that is so going to happen.

Have we ever been this depressed?

If they help bring Howard into the division then all hope for the franchise would truly be lost.

thatguy on Jul 6 at 11:38

he is tall! i'm cool with this. makin' moves, ya know what i mean? once he gets a few txts from DC, he'll fall in line.

I really, really hope they don't help faciliate the Howard deal.

I really, really hope that DeRozan/Calderon stuff was a misprint. I'd rather have Young than DeRozan.

Perhaps when Portland matches Batum, Minnesota comes calling with Williams and a future pick or something. Then we can have more players that play the same position!

The sixers will trade Andre Iguodala to the Lakers in a S&T that nets them Evanks and Jordan Hill.

That's how things work for the lakers


That would be an alright team

thewhettingstone on Jul 6 at 11:42

I'm probably wrong, but just in case it happens, I can be satisfied with myself that I said it. I think AI9 will end up playing with Durant and OKC.

Out of curiosity, how do you see that happening? What do the sixers get back in such an exchange?

thewhettingstone reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 11:48

OKC's glaring weakness against Miami was an elite wing defender to slow down Lebron. OKC would have their own Olympic team-formed trifecta. we got The Shot Blocka.

Yeah, so how do the sixes obtain a power forward when they add ibaka to the large group of very limited centers?

Ibaka is a power forward. He actually has some decent range on his jumper too.

He does?


Does anyone find it weird that for the past 2 years he's only played 27 minutes a game?

Did you even look? 46% from 16-23 feet on 2.6 attempts per game.

Yes I did look - did you conveniently ignore the 3-9 foot range percentages?

He's a power forward, I care about his number 16-23 feet as much as I care about Spencers 3 point numbers (which should be zero - because he should attempt 0)

Shots from 3-9 feet are almost never jumpers, and I didn't say he had a ton of range on his hook (or that he even had one). Despite how you may feel, spacing is a thing, and a big that can hit an assisted mid-range jumper with consistency is valuable.

For Harden or some kind of deal with Ibaka?

The Six reply to Rodney Buford on Jul 6 at 11:45

....where do I sign?

Hey guys, been a while. Just wanted to say that I am sick to my stomach.

Sixers had to use part of their non-taxpayer MLE on re-signing Lavoy, so they couldn't have offered Young the $5m MLE.

I always thought ownership was willing to take the financial hit to amnesty Brand if they found the right player, I just never thought they would for 1 year of Nick Young.

The good news is I think this may prevent them from signing Lou to a 4 year / $32m deal. The bad news is I think there's another shoe to drop and I'm really worried about Humphries now.

Man - you just want to pile on after Brian and the Casino Royale torture don't you?

If the sixers facilitate Howard to New Jersey while obtaining Kris Humphries on an awful deal - I want everyone checked for lobotomy scars

Yea I would be done. Just done. There's no way, right?

A one or two year deal for Humphries would be a solid improvement at power forward. I have to believe that the front office has no interest in dishing out long-term contracts. It seems their tradeoff is higher per year salary.

This. This is the third deal they've done this offseason that is 2 years or less. Not saying they can't still go and do something stupid. But short-term deals seems to be the strategy at least.

Because in 2 years Jrue (and Evan) will be due contract extensions so those cap room dreams will already be gone.

Don't delude yourself into thinking this is smart moves...the sixers had a short window where their cap space could be valuable - they just closed it

Nick Young
Evan Turner
Kris Humphries
Spencer Hawes

That's not really a solid improvement on the roster from last year, the bench is still putrid, the defense takes a step back, and that team still isn't going to win a title, but yeah, at least they'll tie up their available cap room until Jrue's extension kicks in.

New faces, but same path, perpetual mediocrity

sooner reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:02

The good news about this line up is that it might not be good enough to be considered mediocre and could net a high lottery pick. So there's that.

It's the east - it'll get the 8 seed

As of this morning, the knicks odds to win the nba title were higher than the celtics

I'm just saying :)

As of right now I think Nick Young projects as the top of the bench alongside Thad. And also, where is Dre?

I'm not backing signing him because quite frankly I have rarely ever seen him play, Wizards ya know? But Humphries is undoubtedly an improvement over Brand. He's not THE piece, or even near there, but he could be a competent power forward on a high-level team, a la Brandon Bass and the Celtics.

How do you think the sixers get Kris Humphries?

They have no cap room any more cause - you know - Spencer Hawes and Nick Young

Iguodala morphs into kris humphries

Mediocrity continues

Nick Young, starter, he's the 'scorer' the sixers need

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:11


Al Jefferson to Brooklyn, Iguodala to Utah, Humphries and Morrow to the Sixers.

Good bye Lou.................................

Is that supposed to make me feel better?

Nick Young should mean good bye lou

All of their current salaries plus the two rookies and Nick Young are about $50M. They are still under the cap by my count.

I understand everything has to be spelled out for you, but being 6-8 million under the cap is kind of pointless for a team treading water...there's no max contract space...i thought that was rather obvious

thatguy on Jul 6 at 11:50

The suspense for the next move is killing me. Some possibilities.

Derrick Williams
Al Jefferson
Pau Gasol

Remove Gasol from that list...according to numerous sources the moment Nash went down, the lakers took Gasol off the table...as they shouldn't have been shopping him in the first place...lakers need to realize they can't be 'cap savvy' they have to build their best possible team.

Ryan Anderson

sfw reply to Cholo on Jul 6 at 12:04

Ryan Anderson next to Hawes. That's scary!

Did Mo Speights get more money than Spencer Hawes?

i think he got 2 years 7 million, 2nd year is a team option

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:14

I thought I read it was 3.5 mil per year and the 2nd year is the team's option.

Ok - was confused from reading the article

(BTW - it's a player option according to this

So yeah, Rather have speights and his contract than hawes and his :)

@TeamLou23: Philly, I appreciate you all. Unfortunately I will not be coming back, as they decided to move in a different direction.

So we got that goin for us.

I can't believe that our long national nightmare is over until I read the news that he's signed somewhere else

I guess they'll bring in the Penn kid as our backup point guard.

My days of not respecting the sixers front office are rapidly coming to the middle


It should be noted that I am paraphrasing someone who is a much better writer than me when i use that line - i wish i could take credit

If at the end of the year you told me they signed Hawes for two years, let Lou go, and amnestied brand...I would have been happy. I think I'm happy.

Matt reply to Jared on Jul 6 at 12:37

I'm pretty happy. They're finally doing something, anything. They're making tough decisions (Brand, Lou - good, Spencer - bad). And, they're keeping future flexibility. Hopefully they plan to strike next summer.

Except - that they're not keeping their future flexibility

Do people just forgot about players on rookie contracts and that those contracts expire?

Matt reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:43

Well when your expectation is 5 years of Hawes, 5 years of Lou, and a hobbled Brand, coming out with two relatively cheap years of Hawes, no Lou, no limping old guy, and so far no longterm/huge contracts is pretty damn good.

Are the sixers better on the court than they were when the season ended?

Are the sixers better positioned to be a player any time soon in free agency / trade facilitation with cap room?

Cause as far as I can tell, the goal of the off season should be one of those things, and as far as I can tell, the answer to both of those questions is currently no.

Again, low expectations - and the sixers live up to them - but maybe fans should have higher expectations from the franchise?

Matt reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:53

On the court: no, but I do think Nick Young is a better fit (though worse player) than Lou.

FA/Trades: I think so. It largely depends on what they do with Iggy. Next summer they could have a lot of cap room and Jrue will still be eligible for a QO.

The cap room next summer is a myth

It won't be there

Unless you renounce Jrue

And keep andre and hope he opts out (which I doubt highly he would do)

I've seen lots of folk projecting cap space based on Andre Iguodala opting out - like lots of players opt out of 18 million dollars.

The sixers could have had cap room

1. Amnesty Elton Brand
2. Let Hawes and Lou Walk
3. Trade Iguodala for youth and trade exceptoin
4. Sign no one to more than a one year deal in the off season.

Unfortunately they screwed up #2 (and also #4), badly, and my belief is they'll screw up #3 next.

I can't see how people see this as a net positive, the cap room just isn't going to be there at this time, not enough to matter

Matt reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:07

1. Check
2. Half
3. Don't know yet
4. The only new addition is Hawes, but he'll be expiring and I'm holding out faint hope his deal isn't fully guaranteed.

I would have let Hawes go too. They didn't, but I see this as a step in the right direction.

And I see it as one forward step with numerous steps backwards. I'm not sure how that's the right direction

Jay reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:59

No one's forgetting anything JEM, but you seem to forget that you can sign another player before you sign your guys to extensions so, yeah, they indisputably still retain flexibility.

While I'm at it, JEM, I mean to take issue with your sill assertion that expiring contracts are now of little or no value. As usual you exaggerate. Because of this wrinkle with when tax is calculated they are of reduced value, but quite clearly they still are very valuable. If you're trading with a team, is that team going to want to take back a contract that has several years left or one that is expiring. Of course the answer is expiring. Yes there may be a tax hit, but that was a tax hit they'd encounter anyway by holding on to the asset they wanted to trade.

"Reduced" versus 'little or no' value.

I'm glad you disagree with my assertion about little or no value - could you provide examples in recent years of the great haul that expiring contracts yielded for a team?

And while at it, do some research on cap holds, and a team desperate to avoid paying the luxury tax at all times. Or read what Brian wrote at the bottom.

Unless you have significant cap room it hardly ever gets useful unless you're a team like the lakers and steven nash wants to desperately stay near his family.

People need to understand that no one wants to play for this franchise, because of the city, the fanbase, the local medias inability to not be argumentative, and probably the coach as well

What is becoming clear is that the Sixers do a great job of keeping quiet on their real intent. The one thing this makes evident is that there are likely multiple moves remaining.

They said they needed a strong physical presence in the post - and a shooter. I expect to see them get both and I'm confident they realize as yet they have neither.

All these contracts are short, they aren't buying in to the status quo clearly ... something else is up here.

I don't believe for a moment that the Sixers will facilitate a trade to New Jersey - and I have a hard time believing Orlando will do it either. Could be they are prepping to make a move for D. Howard themselves for one year - making sure they have lots of cap space for next year's free agent market. [or facilitating an Atlanta move to do the same and solving Atlanta's cap space problem in exchange for taking Horford back]

can the sixers sign and trade lou?

Yes - but why?

was just wondering

Ah, I'm not sure it makes a difference one way or another, can't see a capped out team offering him more than the MLE can you?

no i cant but it wouldnt surprise me

Are there any feisible way the sixers can get humphries? Facilitating a dwight to nj seems very unlikely for multiple reasons.

I can't think of a scenario where humphries is a sixer at this point (although I think I'm subconsiously trying not to), which makes me happy until the front office screws up in some other way.

GoSixers - can we agree that you would be more upset if they signed Lou today? We might not be flexible later, but signing Lous certainly wouldn't have helped. I think it's a positive. For a second, I thought we were going to be the team that falls in love with it's players and overpays them. Plus, are you really worried about the rookie contract of Turner? Jrue on the other hand...

I wouldn't have been more upset - I mean sure it would be the height o stupidity - but handing your franchise over to a moron head coach is pretty stupid anyway don't you think?

People who are 'excited' that the sixers didn't re-sign lou had really low expectations of the off season i guess. Doing one smart thing and numerous dumb things isn't a sign of gaining a clue.

the sixers have made 3 significant moves since free agency started, neither of them

1. Made the sixers better on the court, or
B. Gave the sixers the maneuverability to rebuild the franchise from its foundations like I think it needs to be

It's the same old same old - new players same as the old players

I predict Nick Young will make people miss Lou Williams,

Jared reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 12:55

What were your expectations? This site isn't called Depressed Fan b/c we think the Sixers are run like the Spurs.

Oh - I had no expectations, I knew it would be a bad off season, because no the wrong guy is running the show.

It's called depressed fan because that's what Brian called it (though being a yankees fan should disqualify him from such sentiments :) ) - I'm just glad he kept posting after the spencerpocalypse

The Six on Jul 6 at 12:55

I am happy they are not signing Lou, however I wonder who they go to for the last possession at the end of the half/game when they need a shot? The "lou show" wasn't something I needed to see again, but he was really the only guy the sixers went to last season unless you count Turner a little towards the end. Jrue was a mixed bag with his decision making when he had the ball during a last possession. And Dre, despite those two big free-throws, shouldn't be the guy.

As the team stand now, is it Turner?

Who knows, maybe they'll be intelligent and call plays instead of asinine isos.

Just a note to people who think these moves make any kind of sense. Hawes is on the books beyond Jrue's extension. If they really were looking forward, looking to make a big move, it had to happen next year, and the second year of Hawes' deal is a big hindrance to that. Jrue's a restricted FA next summer, and if they're banking on him not even getting an offer sheet from anyone and coming back for the QO, they should take a look at the offers RFA's are getting this summer. It's stupid.

I won't sink as far as personal insults, but I do appreciate that bating.

You asked how the 76ers would obtain Humphries, having already assumed that they do not have cap space and signing him outright would not an option. Unless you think he's a max contract player, then they should be able to afford him at $8M.

meant as reply to GoSixers

I haven't played baseball in years, so there's been no bating in my life in a while.

I didn't ask how the sixers could obtain humphries, someone else did.

And if you think humphries would settle for a 7-8 million base salary for next year based on the crap load of money being handed out to guys who haven't accomplished what he has on the court - that's fine - but his agent would be guilty of malpractice if he didn't see what guy like asik was getting (AAV of 8+ mil per year) and start at 9-10 for a guy who averages a 'double double' - that's something that impresses people

"How do you think the sixers get Kris Humphries?"

As you wish, I'll go back to bating people

I haven't done the math, but Derek put them at $49M to 9 players. So $10M for 4 players to get to the minimum. You have veteran's minimum holds for 4 right now, so $53M.

If you sign Humphries for a deal that starts at $8M, that's $57M for 10 players, with vet minimum cap holds for 3 more spots. So roughly $60M? I think $8M is the top end of what they could spend on one player as a straight free agent signing. Of course, if they step in to facilitate a trade that number goes up.

But, Kris Humphries will sign for that, right? Ignoring the money thrown at bench guys he'll definitely sign for it to come to a city known for being supportive of free agent signings and not hard on guys who maybe have a few personal issues go public

jay reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:19

so now you want humphries or not? I just want to make sure we can nail you down since you seem to take the opposite tact of whatever the sixers do.

Here's the two facts we have:

1. In the last 48 hours you've implored the sixers to amnesty brand
2. the sixers did that and signed a guy for one year thus not hurting flexibility in any major way. And you still can't just stop and say, good job sixers.

If they need to shed 5 or 6 million dollars that will be the easiest thing in the world.

I don't care either way.

Actually I've been imploring the sixers to amnesty brand, but unlike most people I can look at the whole board.

They didn't amnesty brand to be smart - they amnesty'd brand SO THEY COULD HAVE ROOM TO SIGN NICK YOUNG FOR ONE YEAR - that's not smart - it's stupid - it's not just the what - it's the why - and the why is stupid.

They re-signed Spencer Hawes for two years, they signed an awful player for even one year and too much money, and to shed 5-6 million dollars right now as you say is the easiest thing in the world - go right ahead - tell me how the sixers do it easily.

You know what would have been easier - not signing Spencer Hawes or Nick young.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about shedding anything.

I implored the sixers to do a lot of things, doing one of them and then pairing that with a series of stupid moves (in my opinion the stupid moves aren't over yet) doesn't make me thrilled or think the sixers did a good job

Seriously, if you claim to know what i've said you would have read it and absorbed the whole thing, the amnesty on brand was just part of a bigger thing - it wasn't about clearing cap space for a guy (FOR EVEN ONE YEAR) that is worse than lou williams

That's right, nick young is worse than lou williams

Even for one damn year...sign a D league guy to a minimum contract instead of nick young.

What the moves represent is stupidity, a lack of direction and a team that still has no clue what their plan is.

I'm sorry if it's hard for you to comprehend how even though the sixers did one good thing (the amnesty on Brand) i can't see the whole thing as bad

I get that for some the whole picture is hard, they want to pick and choose so they can like it or dislike it - as a whole - the sixers moves over the past 48 hours - are asinine...as a whole...

The sixers ignorization (that's my new word) has been run by idiots for a while now, the hope was that new ownership would inject intelligence, but sadly it hasn't...

You claim that i've 'implored' them to amnesty brand - I have - but only coupled with a few others things - which don't fit your desire to attack me - so you ignore them - what ever

buke reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 13:31

Humphries isn't the only player out there, of course. The reported Bucks offer to Ilyasova was reportedly slightly less than $8 million per year. Still no reports on a conclusive offer for Ryan Anderson. There are other worthwhile frontline players who might be had for less than 8 million (some significantly less) and maybe on one year contracts.

My view is that although they resigned Hawes, they didn't resign Lou so the glass is half full. Who knows what is coming still? I thought this front office had no capacity to surprise but I must confess to being very surprised today.

SHHH....what the sixers did is smart, they'll still have cap room, Andre Iguodala will opt out.

You're just a big menay

I expected a crazy offseason, but this is getting ridiculous.

Young is terrible, but if i were to chose between him on a 1 year deal or Lou on a multi year deal i'd choose Young.

I expected Brand to be amnestied but not in order to sign Nick goddamn Young.

Anyway the other moves aren't really an issue. It's the Hawes deal that is absolutely killing me. Everything could've been so much better had he not been resigned. I am still hoping that second year is a team option, but there is no way they had done that right?

I think the good news is that this team has a very good shot of missing the playoffs next year.

If they sign Humphries, they will really tell me something. Even without Brand, do you realize how fracked. I wrote this a couple days ago:

The Sixers have had a quiet offseason so far. They’ve made three moves of note:

1. Draft SF/PF Maurice Harkless with the 15th pick.

2. Trade a future first round pick with Miami for the rights to PF/C Arnett Moultrie, the 27th pick.

3. Resign PF/C Lavoy Allen for 2 years/$6 Million.

OK, so if you are keeping score at home, there’s three moves right there, all in the frontcourt. Let’s start with Lavoy first. Even though Allen had his ups and downs during the regular season, he showed his potential in the Boston series. Allen did this by stretching the floor and playing excellent defense against Kevin Garnett, who had his way with Hawes. The Sixers signed Allen to a low-risk, short-term trial deal to see what he can do with an increased workload. Allen only played in 41 games during the regular season, and averaged 15 minutes a game. To be safe, let’s say he plays every game at an average of 20 minutes a night.

Also, the Sixers draft Harkless, a poor shooting college power forward who projects to be a small forward in the NBA. Even though I could easily see Doug Collins experiment and play Harkless, who was an excellent college rebounder, at the 4 next to Andre Iguodala for spurts, let’s for argument’s sake say he won’t play a minute there.

The move that really doesn’t mesh with the Hawes signing is the Sixers’ trade for Moultrie at 27. Obviously, the Sixers saw something they liked in the 6’11 and athletic Moultrie. Rod Thorn even went further and said the team felt he was one of the ten best players in the draft! On the safe side, let’s say Moultrie plays 15 minutes a game, but again, this number could and hopefully will be a lot higher.

There are 96 minutes to split up at the 4 and 5 positions. The Sixers, before Hawes was signed, have one “true” power forward (only will play heavy minutes at the 4) on the roster, Thaddeus Young. He played 28 minutes a night last year, pretty much all at the 4. Let’s say he duplicates it. Allen will likely split his 20 minutes between the two positions, so there’s 38 minutes devoted to the 4 and 10 devoted to the 5. Let’s say Moultrie also splits his time between the 4 (2/3) and 5 (1/3) to Hawes’ benefit, and he rounds out the allotted 4 minutes while leaving 33 minutes for Hawes, a true center with a nice deal, to play at the 5. Sounds good, right?

WHAT ABOUT LAST YEAR’S FIRST ROUND PICK? Is Nikola Vucevic, who showed some promise last year, going to play under ten minutes a game? Is that the PLAN?

Can you imagine what things are going to look like if they sign Humphries? There is going to be so little time for Moultrie/Lavoy/Voose or maybe the Hawes signing looks worse now.

If the goal was missing the playoffs they could have just plummed the d-league and veterans for minimum salary players...they aren't done yet, this roster will still be 'shaken up' and then they'll tell us how they feel they built a team ready to take that next step after guys like Jrue and Evan got their seasoning last year :)

My estimation of David Aldridge goes down as he calls young a 'great signing'

Rumours are that the mavs might put a claim in on Brand

Brian was hilarious on Twitter with Aldridge. "GREAT" offseason for Sixers so far. That guy is really bad at his job.

He used to be pretty good when he worked for ESPN...I don't know what happened.

Walt's reaction symbolizes my reaction to the Spencer Hawes re-signing.

So Derek posted something on twitter showing off his fancy synergy sports access

Nick Young ranked in the 97th percentile among NBA players in unguarded catch and shoot opportunities,

Now, the only thing I remember about percentiles is from the presidents physical fitness thing (i kicked ass at sit ups) - is that good or bad?

97th percentile is good

I was too embarrassed to ask Derek if that was good or bad also. Then I thought - there is really no way he is 97 percent BAD, right?

Thanks for confirming.

There are no stupid questions...I asked him on twitter too...i honestly couldn't remember clearly it was so long ago, my memory is starting to go.

I know there are ways to say '97th percent' so it's good and bad, depending on how your ranking...i THINK it's good.

Then again, how many catch and shoot open looks do you get when your front court is, well, the sixers front court :)

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:44

Means he's in the top 3% (but not in the top 2%).

Admire Evan Turners Car


I would always prefer rebuilding - trading Iguodala for some rookies/picks/expiring combination, trading Turner for some young player who actually belongs in the league, etc. - and signing Nick Young isn't that, but I don't think he's worse than Lou. In some ways, he's better (three-point shooting, defense according to some). In some ways he's worse (gets to the line about 60% as much). On balance, he's about as good a player, and we were able to get him without signing him to a multi-year contract, which is crucial. Given the team's apparent goal, remaining a .500 club for forever, his signing isn't that bad a move. Hawes is another story. I thought Collins, who doesn't like Hawes much, was really running the team; what happened to that?

Here's another negative for the Young signing. If he's playing this year in an attempt to get a better (more years) deal next offseason, how freaking helpful is he going to be when he's out only for himself?

Exactly as helpful as he's been his entire career. He's always been a useless gunner.

But he's a new useless gunner, so that's better

Two good things about Nick Young on the team.

(1) He doesn't need the ball in his hands. So there's one less guy dominating the ball who really shouldn't be.
(2) It's only a one-year deal.

He sucks, but at least he won't make the entire offense suck when he isn't shooting and at least he'll only suck here for one year.

But what good is a catch and shoot guy on a team where no one draws double teams?

I mean, that benefit really is limited wouldn't you think?

Not to mention with dougs 'love' of defense, nick probably will be in the dog house faster than Jrue Holiday when he commits a turnover

It's interesting that one of he best things to say about this guy is 'he's not lou williams'

And just think - it could have been 4 years of jamal crawford who they were supposedly interested in.

I know it's only one year - but see - cap space during this next season might be an asset - you never know what's gonna happen with big names nearing expiring time around february (like a dwight howard or a josh smith) and how a third team might capitalize.

Part of my argument was that having the cap space during the season, all of it, was valuable, it's less valuable now

buke reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 14:01

That is true. Who did you want the team to pickup anyway? Sometimes you give the impression that you think there are only about 20 worthwhile players in the NBA and if you can't get one of them, why bother.

You say that you would be happy if they shipped out anyone on the team (but especially Turner and Hawes) except Ig and Jrue but you can't stand any of the potential or actual replacements either.

I'm just happy they are getting some new players as I've watched too many of these guys for too long.

buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:53

For some of us, that is definitely true. As Mae West once said, "When given the choice between two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before." After seven years, I couldn't stand watching Lou for another minute. I know I will be fine watching Nick Young for at least one year.

OH I can see the argument - but even still - doesn't make me think it's a good signing.

When the praise for something is 'at least it's not X', then that always concerns me...depending on what X is of course, but still, it's the whole motivation behind the argument.

I don't think Nick Young makes the sixers better, that's all, it just shows me rudderlessness still

I'm not worried about that. He always sort of plays "only for himself." That's his use as a catch and shoot guy. Plus, Lou, while often very effective, didn't exactly utilize a "team first" mindset.

OK, for those panning the Young signing, serious question. What would you rather the team have done? I'm curious.

Young is an average player, who I thought actually flashed some defensive prowess against Memphis (better size than Lou), is a tad (but only a tad) less efficient than Lou while also being a better fit due to needing the ball less, and only signed him for a year.

I don't find a whole hell of a lot wrong with it, but was there something else? I guess the money is a tad much, but it's only one year. Like it doesn't make the team much better or worse, so are you panning it through the lens of this year's team? They were screwed with that anyway. Long-term it doesn't seem to hurt them at all.

That's not really the point (and one of the most annoying questions someone poses when trying to defend a bad move actually) - the point is what it represents - it represents a dedication to mediocrity and the status quo - to filling up what available cap space they can make with mediocre players but avoiding the salary tax until Jrues extension takes place...i believe it's better to sign a vet min player and keep your cap space open as much as possible than a mediocre player even for one year who helps maintain your mediocre positions as a low seed first round victim to a healthy good team.

It's not about Nick Young or better options (though I still say over pay ray allen, a lot, for two years since you've screwed yourself with hawes anyway is better than Nick Young)

That's my answer at least - it's not about 'who would you rather' it's about the 'message' that this, and the hawes, signing send (to me obviously others see a different message)

Again, still waiting for that other shoe to drop

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 14:34

IMO your answer can't separate the Hawes and Young signings. I agree with the organizational focus being out of whack with Hawes.

Why does Nick Young for one year pose dedication to mediocrity? Dedication to mediocrity would have been multiple years for Nick Young, IMO. There's no dedication to anything when you hand out one year deals to guys.

You say that they are screwed with Hawes, and I agree. So why overpay anyone who isn't a star, like Ray Allen, as you also propose? I bet it would have taken 3 years, 20 million to get Ray Allen to come here, at least two years 16 million. This team isn't in a position to overpay anyone who doesn't move the needle. Ray Allen, even if he were gettable, would cost the money the Sixers should not be using. He wouldn't have moved the needle all that much, even if he did stay healthy.

I've never been fond of Nick Young, the player either. Long-term, this doesn't hurt any of the cap-space they have next Summer for Jrue like Hawes does. A one year deal allows them to hit the reset button next year as well. I can't pan it too much.

There are two directions that the sixers can choose

1. Try and win now
2. Rebuild

Obviously, it's clear that I favor #2, but if they favor #1, and th moves this off season seem to indicate that - then they should go after the best players they can get.

The Hawes (which came first) signing represents to me that the sixers see a two year window (i.e. the duration of Andre Iguodalas contract) before they want to have cap room again - and i'm willing to bet the sixers went to lou williams with a two year, possibly above market (per year) deal and he turned it down and Nick Young was the back up plan for one year.

So - with that premise set - then yes - you go after ray allen for two years instead of Nick Young for one, and yes you over pay him because you want to try and win...if you believe signing Spencer Hawes is a sign the sixers believe they can win with Spencer Hawes (whether or not their belief is accurate is an entirely different issue)

You can't separate the signings because they go together, and represent (to me) a belief that they can contend now - so yes - Ray Allen for two years since spencer is in the way anyway - is better than Nick Young for one if the premise is competetiveness

The sixers had one chance to be significant in the free agency market - and yes getting rid of elton brand was part of it - but getting rid of elton brand so you can sign Nick Young was foolish - and if competetiveness is the goal - Iguodala either stays or is traded for a contract, not youth and cap room.

You can't separate it out (in my opinion) because it all establishes the motivations of the sixers - and if the motivation is competetiveness, Ray Allen is a better option than nick young (for two years) - hell oj mayo over paid for 2 years is a better option than nick young...once you signed hawes for two years - find your best possible 'shooting guard' who will sign for 2 years and over pay him just like you did hawes.

My answer didn't separate the Hawes and Young signings because I don't believe you can - not rationally - they are connected - they indicate a thought process - and once Jrue gets his extension (it won't be a max, but it'll be significant) next off season the cap space window they had will mostly be gone - even with Hawes expiring...Young bites into 6 million of that.

Much like me not being happy with the elton brand amnesty is because it is part of the whole - and as a whole - well - get someone better for two years since you're paying hawes for 2 years anywya

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 14:59

"Much like me not being happy with the elton brand amnesty is because it is part of the whole - and as a whole - well - get someone better for two years since you're paying hawes for 2 years anywya"

But your whole point in answering my original question was that because the Sixers signed Nick Young, they were dedicated to mediocrity and the team's lack of direction is the point of the signing being bad.

Even though Ray Allen won't come here, there would have been the same problems of mediocrity at the end of the year. He's maybe the difference between the 9 and 6 seed, and that's probably generous.

The point is that if the sixers have decided for the next two years to try and 'win' then you should sign the best players you can in those two years

You shouldn't sign nick young for one year if you can get ray allen for those two years.

Remember, it's not that I believe they should do either - i felt spencer should have been sent to play for CSKA Moscow if they'd have him - but once you commit to that two year window - get the best talent you can - if ray allen will play for 2 years and 16 million (or whatever, he won't get more than 6 in 2 years from miami and he's on the benc, one of the reasons he's supposedly leaving boston was his benching), you commit to it.

It's the committment I'm talking about - once you give hawes that contract you've made your committment

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 15:26

"The point is that if the sixers have decided for the next two years to try and 'win' then you should sign the best players you can in those two years."

That sounds a lot different than this...

"That's not really the point (and one of the most annoying questions someone poses when trying to defend a bad move actually) - the point is what it represents - it represents a dedication to mediocrity."

And this....

"That's my answer at least - it's not about 'who would you rather' it's about the 'message' that this, and the hawes, signing send (to me obviously others see a different message)"

Ray Allen IMO, even if he is out there is a better player and still a dedication to mediocrity. Lou Williams is also a better player and also, a dedication to mediocrity.

And the Spencer Hawes signing showed their dedication to mediocrity (in my mind) for hte next two years...so why not be the best mediocre you can.

If lou would have agreed to a two year contract, I bet you he's on the sixers still.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 15:05

"Much like me not being happy with the elton brand amnesty is because it is part of the whole - and as a whole - well - get someone better for two years since you're paying hawes for 2 years anywya"

But your whole point in answering my original question was that because the Sixers signed Nick Young, they were dedicated to mediocrity and the team's lack of direction is the point of the signing being bad. I don't see the logic in following a faulty premise of theirs (They can win now, we signed Hawes) to overpay older players who wouldn't have a huge impact.

Even though Ray Allen won't come here, there would have been the same problems of mediocrity at the end of the year. He's maybe the difference between the 9 and 6 seed, and that's probably generous. So I see no logic in losing cap space next summer for Jrue and free agents to be "above-average mediocre" as opposed to "below-average mediocre." Just because the team has the "win now" premise, I wouldn't rather them make incremental moves just so they can follow something flawed just so they can call it "a direction." They could have overpaid Lou for four years and just as easily said that.

The Six reply to Rich on Jul 6 at 14:46

Signing Ray Allen (an over-paying to do so), would put the team in a worse situation than doing what I wanted the team to do in going after Hibbert or McGee. Ray Allen makes no sense for this team IMO.

You're right

Nick Young is a much better short term optoin than Ray Allen

What has Ray Allen accomplished in the NBA really.

The sixers signed Spencer Hawes for 2 years - which to me is a clarion bell that they think (rightly or wrongly irrelevant) that they have a two year window

If you'd rather have nick young at 6 mil for one year than ray allen over paid for two - i can't help you

Ray Allen is better than nick young,a nd if he would play for philly for 2 years because of more money than miami (and more minutes since he'd start here) you sign him if you think you have a two year window because he's good, and nick young sucks

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:47

But, uh, we don't have a two year window. We have no chance of contending in the next two years. I don't see why you want them to dig the two-year hole deeper.

Something called 'my sports legion' is claiming the sixers have shifted their focus to Ilyasova

I must admit, all the point guards going hither and yon it's kind of shocking you haven't seen the big 'pf names' in free agency doing much yet in comparison, i wonder if this is the shifting 'point guard league' concept coming to bear - focusing on getting the points before anything else

The Six reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 14:33

ESPN had it under "rumors" as well.

ESPN's report under rumors was the speculation of a guy named Joe that the sixers might turn to Ilyasova now that they waived brand, and it's quite possible that the other source was just using the ESPN report...but nothing in the ESPN report claims that they know anything about the sixers actually pursuing him - they just think they might :)

How hilarious would it be if the Sixers end up being the team that takes on Humphries' contract so that DH could go to Brooklyn?

Are we talking hillarious like eddie murphy raw - or hillarious like some people think dane cook is funny but really he's not hillarious?

ESPN Has this about Ilyasova's value and how that crazy Jeff Green contract might impact

Word leaked out on Thursday (via Sam Amick of SI.com) that it could a 4-year, $40 million deal for Boston to bring back free agent Jeff Green.

Those reported figures sent shockwaves through the Twitterverse as NBA fans speculated that if Green -- who sat out last season after undergoing surgery to repair a aortic aneurysm -- could command $10 million a season over four years, how would it impact someone like Ersan Ilyasova?

In a word: positively.

The 25-year-old Ilyasova is suddenly one of the hottest names remaining on the free agent market, and is rumored to be seeking a long-term deal worth at least $10 million annually. If Green's deal with Boston gets done first, it could set the market for what Ilyasova -- who averaged 13 points and 8.8 rebounds last season -- ultimately ends up getting.

L. A. Steve on Jul 6 at 15:21

Well I like Nick better than Lou, that's for sure. I read some of the post and it seems like most people don't think he can shoot, that's hard to believe considering how many times he has killed us over the years. Let's face it Nick is a better perimeter shooter than Lou and will be better at spreading the floor. The thing about Lou that drove me crazy was his shot selection, he took more bad shots than anybody on the team, and of course his defense was nonexistent. Unfortunately, the thing that is apparent to me is that the Sixers are still not an attractive destination to the free agents, so, considering that, I say Nick's o.k. by me.

Now, if I was running the show I'd roll the dice and go after JaVale McGee. This guy is a great shot blocker whose offensive game is starting to blossom. He can run the floor, and he plays all out too. He's a young kid with loads of upside. Denver wants him back but they have other big men who they like too, so it's a possibility that he could be had. The deal for Hawes makes sense if he's a backup, and let's face it, Nik is probably better suited for the 4. Do I think they'll do it, probably not, but I'd love to see them pull the trigger on a deal like this, in my opinion there is risk, but there is a big reward too. If they make this deal and he develops to his potential, I believe it would be the steal of this year's free agent market.

The sixers don't have the ability to make javale mcgee a solid contract offer that denver wouldn't match.

They would have - but they signed spencer hawes and nick young instead

Nick Young can do one thing well - and nothing else even average

L. A. Steve reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 17:31

In regards to having enough cap space to sign McGee, I believe I read somewhere that they have $8 million left after signing Young. With that in mind, they might be able to backload a multi-year deal using the $8 mil in the first year. Also an Iguodala deal could give them some additional cap space, providing they take back smaller contracts. Bottom line, if they wanted to do it, (which they don't), they could find a way to get it done.

This is a response to Rich above, believe it or not I'm too lazy to hit the reply button:

I don't really care about the deal for Young all that much. I think he's really a bad player, but it's one year, and at least he's the right kind of bad player, if that makes sense (doesn't need the ball in his hands).

Personally, I would've preferred they go after Courtney Lee, but whatever.

I'd love to know if they realized they'd have to amnesty Brand to sign Young, or if they didn't figure it out until after the fact, though. I think it's a coin flip that they just accidentally amnestied him.

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 15:33

And that's my point. I hate him as a player, too much Wizards on him. I think he's worse than Lou, and possibly a little better fit than Lou. So in that it's sort of a wash.

The most important part of the signing is the length though. It's clear the front office is bad, awful, bumbling, etc. I'm just happy they didn't resign Lou or give anyone else long-term money to try and build on the faulty premise they can win now. If they do something stupid later now that they amnestied Brand, obviously that changes.

You realize that the nick young 'signing' made the Elton Brand amnesty a necessity right? They couldn't have given Nick Young his one year deal without using the amnesty on Elton Brand.

So basically, they used to amnesty to get Nick Young

One of numerous reasons even that one year deal is, um, stupid

Rich reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 15:49

Do you also realize the Brand deal was a necessity considering this team stupidly resigned Hawes and has an absolute logjam in the front court?

Your logic is all over the place. Do you realize on the Young signing, you originally:

1. Advocated signing a vet minimum player for no cost for cap flexibility for next year. Here's the quote:

"i believe it's better to sign a vet min player and keep your cap space open as much as possible than a mediocre player even for one year who helps maintain your mediocre positions as a low seed first round victim to a healthy good team."

2. And then proceed to make a whole big deal about an over-the-hill Ray Allen and how the team made their decision after signing Hawes.

3. And now you are bitching about having to amnesty Brand, something they would have had to do for your beloved Ray Allen. They were going to have to amnesty Brand after resigning Hawes, genius.

I'm taking a break from the internet.

I don't have a strong opinion about the Nick Young signing because I've hardly watched him play. I do know that he has historically played well against the Sixers (49/42/82 career splits against them), so I suspect the "Brian Schneider" phenomenon may have been in play (sign the guy who always torches your team).

One more note about Nick Young. Three years ago, after a combination of inspiration and frustration, Brian came up with the Willie Green quotient (WGQ) to capture the play of shooting guards who shoot and miss a lot and do nothing else on the court. The formula is [(REB+AST+STL+BLK+FGM)-(FGA+TOV)], and one can divide it by games played. Players who do a lot of other things besides shoot and miss have positive WGQs (for reference: Iguodala is at +4.31 WGQ/G for his career, Turner +2.29, Jrue +1.71, Thad +1.06). Shooting guards tend to have negative WGQs. Lou is at -0.62 WGQ/G for his career (assists offset his missed shots), Meeks at -0.74. The man for whom the WGQ is named, Willie Green, is at -1.82 WGQ/G for his career. Guess what Nick Young is? -3.22 WGQ/G for his career. So Nick Young is more Willie than Willie. What strikes me is that NYoung has more turnovers than assists for his career, almost unheard of for a guard in today's NBA. [*Note on the WGQ: it doesn't give enough credit for scoring, as a player who goes 14-20 would be worse off then one who goes 1-3. But the other items are prominent in advanced statistics like PER.]

Rich reply to Statman on Jul 6 at 15:38

Sounds about right. A lot of Wizards Stink on Nick Young.

Heh, I completely forgot about the WGQ.

Seems like you might need to dust it off and rename it

Has anyone heard any news about Delonte West? I would have rather had him then Nick Young. We could have gotten him for half of what we paid Young. I'd still take him actually. He can play both guard spots and has a good all-around game. Jrue/Evan/Iggy/Young/West with some Harkless sprinkled in at the 3 would round out the 1-3 spots.

The biggest issue, in terms of judging the sixers moves is that they don't currently have a power forward who is even 'league average'.

I'm a bit concerned to see how that's going to turn out

Is that more troubling than not having a center or a shooting guard who is league average?

They came into the summer with below average starters at two positions, it's three now. Wondering if that number will climb to four before all is said and done.

Worse than being below average at SG and C is the fact that none of the guys they have to play those positions can do the bare minimum typically required of the position (shoot at SG and rebound/block shots at C).

Well, they at least have a center and shooting guard :)
Seriously though - did nick young sign a one year six million dollar contract with the understanding he's a bench player? Does that even make sense?

More importantly - who on the clippers said 'old jamal crawford is better than young nick young' - the one saving grace is that the clippers handed out a much worse deal.

I'd like one big man on this team to at least play in the low post 50% of the time offensively - i can't remember the last time the sixers had a big man like that...

McCulloch (still can't spell that name). I think he played in the post when he played.

So 2001, or 2003, depending if you count the 42 games he played in 2003.

I also learned today that he's quite the pinball aficionado and once was on the chapelle show


PS - i'm glad yo udidn't give up yet

I almost gave up everything after the week I had. We'll see how the rest of the summer plays out, I guess.

I didn't find out about Hawes until almost a day after it happened. Rich sent me an email, I almost blew a gasket.

Was a boring offseason up to today. The next steps will indicate either a subtle rebuild with youth or a go for it now mentality. I bet on the subtle rebuild with a young power forward or center brought in at the expense of Iggy and maybe Vuc.

Maybe, some will get their wish and ET plus will be sent away for that big. Maybe Thad gets the next piece.

Gotta believe this will be happening in the very near future. The fan base is very anxious right now waiting for the next move. At least it's no longer a boring offseason.

Not sure if anyone's already linked to this, but Hollinger is perplexed by these moves (article available to ESPN Insider subscribers, one zinger excerpted below):


"If Philly hadn't lazily given Lavoy Allen a one-year deal rather than a team option for the second and third years, like virtually every other team does with every second-round pick, they wouldn't be in this pickle. Philly had to re-sign Allen with its midlevel exception, which meant it had to sign Nick Young with cap space, which meant it had to amnesty Brand once the Sixers decided they liked Young better than Lou Williams. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a front office flying by the seat of its pants."

I disagree with one comment that HOllinger made...i don't believe they liked lou better than young, i believe lou wouldn't sign for two years like hawes did.

My gut says that if lou was willing to sign a two year deal, he'd be a sixer, and that for some reason the sixers felt he'd sign a two year deal so they didn't think it would be an issue

Yep, he should be confused.


What, exactly, are they going for here? Even after the amnesty, Philly has just $7 million in cap room, which is perhaps enough to put in a bid for the likes of Ersan Ilyasova or Kris Humphries, but if you're going to do that, you might as well ride out another year with Brand, right?

7 mil - an awesome use of assets using up 6 mil on nick young

Think it's closer to 9.

Again, I'm trying to make sense out of the senseless; I see no obvious endgame for the Sixers out of this, and am equally puzzled by the timing, but perhaps there's one that eludes my reasoning here.

Personnel-wise it's a mess, but if you're looking for structure, it's in the finances.

The only contract that runs past the next two seasons, to date, is Thaddeus Young's. At that point the team, if necessary, could be boiled down to Thaddeus Young, Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen, and Andre Iguodala (if he opts in). That's only $32M in salary ($16M without Iguodala).

Add in about $2.5 for the cost of the two rookies.

Is Derrick Williams a target at power forward? They wouldn't have used the amnesty clause on Brand and leave a hole at power forward when they could have paid him to fill it.


smh1980 on Jul 6 at 18:29

If I were GM I would have liked to have done the following:

1. Amnesty Brand. Sorry Elton, this is just business. I think Dallas will pay 8 million of this imo.

2. Trade Iggy (I see there is a Derek Williams trade possibility. I would do it. It's a trade for need and Williams peak will be the same timeframe as Jrue's.

3. Let Hawes walk. Yes it's a 2 year deal but he had his chance and failed. I would have let Vuc show us what he's got. Sink or swim.

4. Improve chances for the next draft lottery. Hey, if we make the playoffs next year then that pick goes to the Heat.

5. Have cap space available for a free agent max contract but if that doesn't work out, we are growing the sixers to be a contender in 2015-19 timeframe. The Heat will eventually get old just like the Celtics. Maybe we draft a superstar between now and then. Who knows. We are a very young team. Let's use our youth to our advantage.

Stan reply to smh1980 on Jul 6 at 18:59

I would traded Igoudala to Toronto and then drafted Drummond.

Except there's absolutely no credible proof that that was an option

CM reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 20:54

Much like there is no credible proof that Ray Allen had any interest in signing w/ the Sixers - yet you post about it 38 times a day.

Sigh...I said the sixers should pursue Ray Allen, I said they should over pay him and he should want to come here because he'll get minutes and want to screw over the celtics.

Maybe the word credible, or proof, mean things you don't think they mean - because all I ever stated was that it was my opinion.

My opinion is not credible proof - my opinion is just that - and if you don't like it - I don't care - but man - please - I am tired of being called a liar by douches

CM reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 22:17

I didn't call you a liar.

Mike reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 22:18

No one's calling you a liar; it's just that you criticized Stan's post for not meeting a standard of proof that you so clearly don't apply to your own. That's hypocrisy, not lying.

how would he screw over the celts coming to a shit team like this one

Spencer is Hired on Jul 6 at 19:04

It seems simple to me, build with young guys and use short contracts to keep flexibility. Brian, it amazes me that Harkless and Moultrie suck already, in your eyes. The same front office drafted Iggy and Jrue but now they can't do it right?

Vuce is being given up on also. And the Hawes hate, when he will probably play 24 minutes a night, is over the top, as usual. Moultrie could be the athletic finisher we have wanted for Jrue and if Collins' has done one thing well its let Curry put a system in that covers certain players warts well.

I don't believe another big move is coming and expect our frontcourt to gain valuable experience this year. Lavoy showed enough composure against Garnett to warrant a longer look and Hawes and Thad are experienced enough to play 1/2 the game at the 5 and 4. Start Lavoy at p.f. and let Vuce play 20 to 24 minutes at the backup center spot.

I will enjoy watching this young team grow and be turned over to Jrue this season and by years end Turner will have shown us whether he is a keeper or not.

My impression is that the 6ers seems set on bringing in a high-potential asset to the frontcourt. There was a lot of pre-draft chatter to this extent, and although nothing major occurred on draft night, conversations were definitely had. I wouldn't be surprised if the culmination of those talks lead to a deal at some point.

The only player being paid like a starter in the front-court is Thaddeus Young, who is the de-facto sixth man with Lou Williams moving on. Hawes and Allen are paid like backups, and Vucevic and Moultrie are 4th and 5th in the pecking order.

Spencer is Hired reply to Cin on Jul 6 at 19:36

With Hawes and Vuce at the 5 I am not sure there is a better fit than Lavoy out there. I would rather they take a flier on a young shotblocker [Alabi or L.Sanders] come to mind. Milwaukee may move Sanders for a 2nd rounder with all the similar players they have now.

I agree with what Rich said earlier, do you bury Vuce or Moultrie at the end of the bench this year? It seems Collins wants to see who can step up this year amongest our young guys.

Spencer is Hired reply to Cin on Jul 6 at 19:46

Do you think what happened on draft night changed their plans at all regarding this summer? Zeller would of allowed them to let Hawes go and bring in a better prospect than they can now.

What about when we go small? That should cut into the already crowded rotation. They have Harkless/Iggy/Turner that can play the 4. They should really play them there more often, as much as the matchups allow. Turner should be put on the other teams 4 whenever we can. He's the best defensive rebounder on the team and he can get the break going. If he would look to outlet it faster he could be dangerous on the defensive glass. I think you could even play Turner/Thad at forward and put Thad on the 3. Thad would get to run the break more...scary thought.

The Hawes signing made no sense whatsoever. Why the hell wouldn't you want to see what your young frontcourt can do. You can still make the playoffs and sell tickets(if we keep iggy). Spencer Hawes has no future trade value. Just don't get it. I hope this wasn't what Doug wanted. I can't stand another 24mpg from him this season.

Spencer is Hired reply to DonH on Jul 7 at 5:24

I don't believe our coach wants to play smaller than he does everytime Thad gets 28 mpg. at the p.f. spot. Getting longer on the wings was imperative to help offset Thad's rebounding at that position.

When Iggy leaves hopefully Harkless can provide a capable replacement defensively and rebounding the ball. The moves this summer seem to want to compliment Thad,Turner and Jrue and give them a better chance of succeeding.

I had no problem letting Hawes go but understand why he is here also. He was willing to sign a shorter deal which seems important to our front office. He is young compared to a C.Kaman type signing. And his skillset works as far as spreading the floor for the 3 guys, Jrue,Evan and Thad, that our organization seems high on.

Tk mentioned a while back that a lowpost player may not work here when discussing Sullinger and it looks like he may be right. Moultrie is a slasher that doesn't play on the block, like Favors, and all our bigs can shoot the ball.

Humphries is basically a midrange shooter also so he works in that regard but to me I would rather save the caproom and see if Lavoy and Moultrie can give his type of production.

and if in theory having free cap space gives you "flexibility" to make moves during the season...doesn't signing generic guys like Nick Young keep that same flexibility while also letting you see if the guy has anything left? IF there's a deal to be made this season, you have Young instead of a long term Lou deal, EB is gone either way it looks like, 00 will still only have 1.5 years left at a semi reasonable number...and either they flip AI9 while his value is high or his deal gets that much closer to expiring too no? This seems much more like a Phillies mildly overpaying Rod Barajas type deal than, say, a Dodgers massively overpaying Juan Pierre and screwing their roster over for five years kind of deal...

Hmmm plus that Hoopsrumors site says that "amnesty waivers gives first dibs to clubs with cap space. Contenders like the Heat, Knicks, Lakers, and Clippers, among other over-the-cap teams, will only have a shot to sign Brand if he clears waivers"

...did we know that already? I guess that means cap space as of next Weds when teams are allowed to actually sign guys? But how the hell do you calculate cap space hwen teams are already reaching these deals but they're not official until then??

I'm not sure about we, but yes I knew that already - the only people who can make a waiver claim on a player are teams who are under the cap.

Nothing, at all, happens until July 11th, that includes contracts being signed, or players being wiaved, players can only be waived in the week following.

I'm almost certain the NBA has the logistics worked out, they're pretty smart people.

Most reports are that the Mavs with all their cleared cap room and no one interested in taking it will take a shot to spend a few million on brand.

BTW - the hoopshype.com rumors page doesn't really report much - they just aggregate stuff - so neither they (nor realgm) are the source of most reports - you know - for reliability

Nothing at all actually happens until July 11th.

but say for the Mavs, that's cleared cap room as of...now? bc they haven't actually done anything? but then if every team can sign guys at the same time AND claim amnestied guys (isn't EB the only one?) then how does anybody calculate who has what space when? or massive salary dumps like atlanta - do they somehow have space now even though those deals haven't gone through yet?

Tom Moore on Jul 6 at 21:44

Story: Sixers still have work to do after signing Nick Young, amnestying Brand and not bringing back Williams:


Asked if he'd consider taking Metta World Peace from the Lakers in order to get Pau Gasol, as one rumor contended was a possibility, Thorn responded, "LOL."

Twitter: @tmoorepburbs

mymanjrue on Jul 7 at 2:04

I agree wholeheartedly about Hawes, Brian, but I belive some of the rest of your points were slightly undermined by some thoughtful move today. Letting Lou Walk and getting Nick Yound to play a similar role(asa better 3 point shooter, by the way, albeit less skilled at getting to the line than Lou) on a 1 yr deal for a reasonably price, and amnestying Brank were important. I hope they lead to the signing of an Ilyasova or a Ryan Anderson. Even Al Jefferson would be welcome to this club in an AI deal by me I believe. He is an interior presence on offense the team sorely needs. Ilyasova is my preferred target thanks to his tough d, willingness to attack the glass, and stretch capabilities as a knock down 3 pt shooter-that's a signing I could get excited about.

all of this would look better with a real basket protector defensively at the 5 spot but what can you. kinda hope vuc is in the rumored igoudala-toronto deal-so we onl have one soft, jump shot happy 7fter who isn't athletic enough to pick and roll with jrue/evan on the roster, not two.

al jeff would be a big asset for the young ballhandlers next year. he would hurt, perhaps in other areas-although i believe his advanced defensive stats are rather good=correct me if i'm wrong. haven't watched him enough to really know. seems like a a guy who bangs a little bit to me.

anyone know what ilyasova's strengths are in teh pick and roll?moultrie i think will develop into a good roller...likes to score off cuts i believe

hmmm if the deal for 00 is only two years, the AI9 contract has two years left, and there is apparently some sort of difference in the cap calculations for teams signing vs resigning a guy over two or three years (didn't someone link to a story about how Houston put together a deal that spikes in year 3?), then can't the Sixers do the same thing for a guy like Ilyasova...in theory put together an offer using what's left of the EB money for years one and two, and then bc AI9 will expire, add a huge spike in year three that other teams won't be able to match? Wouldn't they still also be able to offer a discount to Jrue by then?

short version of that paragraph - don't all of these moves so far fit with moving the window out two more years, and/or adding at least a mid-level FA by backloading a deal into that third year and after..?

Brian thanks for keeping this place going...at least until whatever the next move is!

My belief is that the Sixers are somewhere on the periphery of a deal for Dwight Howard or the fallout from the Howard deal if someone signs him.

The silence regarding impending moves has been pretty impressive thus far. My expectation is that our upside potential would be to get Dwight Howard or to get Gasol or Horford should we lose out on getting Howard.

If that doesn't happen, I'm kind of expecting an Ilyasova signing following by an Iguodala/Vucevic for Al Jefferson/Gordon Hayward move.

I'm actually okay with any of those outcomes.

TwoSense reply to TNT on Jul 7 at 13:27

Two questions:

1) Why do you have this belief they're on the verge of a shocking crash, or the leftover wreckage?

2) Why would Utah give up those two pieces for Iguodala when they just traded for Marvin Williams?

So long, Elton Brand. You were a true professional who more often than not sucked as a Sixer. As shoppers, we got the minn for the maximum! While amnesty wasn't imperative, it was prudent, definitely.

So long, Lou Williams. You grew up before our eyes into a commonplace NBA guard. One question before you go: What are the webbed armpit tats about?

Hello, Nick Young. Your shooting killed Sixers a couple of times so they went out and bought ya; front office version of the prevent defense. Hit us with your best shots - fire away!

Welcome back, Spencer Hawes. There's a bellyaching band of observers who would have preferred your going to 1 of 29 other locations. Please take it personally. The next two are YOUR campaign years. God bless Philadelphia.

buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 7 at 14:05

Well said!

Thorn may be one of the least dynamic characters to occupy a general manager's position, but I will say one thing about his reign as we move forward. He appears determined not to make any very expensive mistakes. After the way the last two GMs handcuffed this team with long, expensive contracts a little risk aversion is most welcome. Both of them now seem to be doing better with their successor teams. Why do the Sixers have to be the training ground for GMs giving big blundering contracts in an effort to win their stripes?

eddies' heady's on Jul 7 at 13:17

Well .......... I have actually always kind of liked Nick Young. Admittedly not a numbers guy so don't know how he stacks up but I love his ability to knock down an assisted shot and his prowess from getting hot from deep. I also somewhat liked and appreciated what Lou brought to the floor (particularly his sometimes underrated passing and frequent forays to the line) so I'm not sure how I truly feel about this swap of players.

If they gave Nick Young 6 million (which seems a bit much) to only be a specialist off the bench I'll be pissed. If they paid Nick Young that much to be a starter at SG relegating Evan Turner to his better-suited spot coming off the bench I'll like this move even more than I mildly do now.

I agree with Rich that NYoung wasn't too shabby on defense in that Memphis series this year. And I won't judge him solely on his Wizards career because they were always such a screwed up organization with headcases as players (Arenas, Blatche etc.). That said, I think Doug Collins will be good for NYoung and see that he has more structure and most importantly court discipline.

I've longed for a capable (obviously not efficient as Brian says) shooter, especially from deep, for so many years I guess that's why I feel a tempered excitement from seeing this signing late yesterday. Subject to change at any moment with this team, but as of today I like the move.

Just think Lou's departure will be sorely missed in certain areas that the team already lacks majorly in.

(Still holding firm to the belief that Iguodala will not be traded.. as others are saying something else is coming down the pipe soon. guess we'll see)

Someone earlier asked about those 'poison pill' contracts with the big salary jump in the third year, Larry Coon explained it in his chat this week, and here's the information:

Here’s what it’s all about. If a player has one or two years in the league, he hasn’t been around long enough for his team to have full Bird rights. A player with two years, for example, can only have Early-Bird rights, which lets his team go up to the average salary to keep him, but not more. Orlando took advantage of this by signing Gilbert Arenas several years ago to a contract the Warriors were helpless to match. They fixed it in the 2005 CBA by putting restrictions on offer sheets to restricted free agents with one or two years in the league. In these offer sheets, the first year couldn’t be above the maximum salary, which guaranteed the player’s prior team could match using Early-Bird rights or the Mid-Level exception. But so they players don’t get gypped by only being able to get a small contract, they allowed a big jump starting in the third year — to what it would have been if this rule hadn’t existed.

So teams are taking advantage of this by offering contracts starting at $5 million (the mid-level/Early Bird amount), $5.225 million next season, and with a big jump in 2014-15. First, this is how they can give the player more money. Second, by giving the player a big jump in 2014-15, they’re trying to make it as uncomfortable as possible for the prior team to match.

Okay, now back to your questions — let’s be clear on the difference between what the player is paid and what counts against the team’s cap. Let’s say the contract is for three years, at $5 million, $5.225 million, and $15 million. This is what the player gets paid, with whichever team he ends up with. This is also the amount that counts against the cap if the player’s prior team matches and keeps him.

But if the team with the offer sheet ends up getting him, then the average salary of the whole contract (in this case, $8.4 million) counts against the team’s cap. This is because in order to offer a contract with this kind of balloon payment, the team has to have enough cap room for the average salary. So if they keep him, then this amount is accounted for in the team’s cap.

thanks for posting, this sounds kind of like the new NHL CBA when teams were backloading deals with extra years to lower the average hit...couldn't this then let the Sixers still go after someone with the EB money plus whatever is freed up when AI9 leaves? of course that'll be long after Thorn is gone too...

Iguodala made the Olympic team

Good for him, and well-deserved. Probably bad news for the sixers or whatever team he's playing for this season.

Court_visioN reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 2:14

i doubt it's really bad news. he'll be riding the pine for most of the olympics, and he'd probably be playing basketball during the offseason regardless.

Even if he doesn't play much, you're still talking about an intense practice schedule. I worry about the chronic leg issues.

Adam Aron and Josh Harris are probably smiling somewhere, content at how, by comparison, their asset has appreciated in value. Every player on the Team USA roster has or will eventually have a max contract. Next to Rudy Gay and Eric Gordon, Iguodala is underpaid. Why wouldn't he opt-out with his value at a career high?

He's also the only guy player on the roster who is known primarily for defense, other than Tyson Chandler. Whatever you think of the wisdom of it, scoring is what pays the big bucks, especially for an SF. I think Iggy wil opt out just to get away from Collins and out of Philadelphia, but he's not going to be getting more than $10M/yr on his next contract. Chandler got a near-max because he's a center.

Buke reply to Cin on Jul 8 at 11:48

This shouldn't have much impact on his value (and, if it does, could be a negative). Consider the following:

1) Membership on a USA team has never been limited to max type players;

2) Iguodala is not a little known quantity. He has been a member of a world champ USA team before and his performance on that team, along with his NBA career, already have been incorporated into perceptions of his value; this development does not add any new information.

3) Iguodala is at the point of his career where he is developing chronic injuries and having insufficient rest or therapy for them over the summer may be a negative consideration for his value.

Finally, Spiller is correct that there are salary structures for different types of positions and skills in the NBA and Iguodala doesn't occupy the type of position or perform the most highly compensated skills well enough to earn max money. He might earn more than Spiller's figure on his next contract but probably not so much more.

Does anyone else think that Ersan Ilyasova is slightly overrated? He a decent rebounder and a decent 3 point shooter but I feel like the $40 million offer was fair.

Would you pay this guy $10-12 million a year for 4 years?

eddies' heady's reply to Stan on Jul 8 at 10:49

Not sure if he's overrated, but at those numbers he would be overpaid for sure.

Did I miss something, thought he signed for 5 year $45 million. I think that is a fair number and would have been happy had the Sixers signed him. The guy is a not just a good 3 point shooting big and rebounder ... he can play strong defense in the post.

Stan reply to TNT on Jul 8 at 11:51

That's a fair deal. When he turned down the 5 year 40 million dollar offer, I thought he was looking for a deal that would pay him around 11-12 million a year.

Buke reply to TNT on Jul 8 at 11:53

Considering that Dalembert made 3.5 to 4 million per year more than that on the last two years of his Billy King contract, I would agree that 9 million per year for Ilyasova doesn't seem so extravagant.

Darko Milicic has two years left on his deal but the last year is only partially guaranteed for 1.5 million. Would you trade for him?

buke reply to Stan on Jul 8 at 12:13

Interesting question as it could relate to that rumored potential three-way deal between Minnesota, Portland, and Philly where MN gets Batum in a sign and trade, Portland gets Iguodala, and Philly gets a package of players from MN.

Philly needs a backup point guard and Minnesota has 3 point guards. Minnesota also needs to shed players. With MN's salary structure and player shedding needs, the deal could be a 3 for 1. My guess is that Philly would want a backup point guard (Ridnour or Berea), another young player with some potential (D. Williams), and a player thrown in purely for expiring contract purposes, but maybe Philly would prefer to have two expiring contracts and one player of value instead.

Although a third string center (even if it's Darko) would be potentially more valuable to the team than another small forward, Martell Webster's contract is about 5.1 million a year, whereas Darko's, if what you are saying is true, would only result in about half of that amount expiring after one year. Following next year, Wes Johnson's salary is under team option, so that could be another 5 million plus expiring.

Stan reply to buke on Jul 8 at 13:31

Derrick Williams, Darko Milicic, and Evan Turner. Go after Thabeet, Marvin Williams and Beasley as well.


Reports have been floating around that Thabeet will sign with the Thunder...yknow, that front office that actually knows what they're doing...

Stan reply to das411 on Jul 8 at 14:15

We should outbid them for Thabeet and then outbid Suns for Beasley. Maybe we can convince Jay Williams and Stromile Swift to come out of retirement. That way we can have the largest collection of #2 overall disappointments in the 21 century.

Regarding Ilyasova, 2012's 45% from beyond the arc, including consecutive months over 50% from distance rates as better than "pretty good"...Unless Scott Skiles goes into one of his coniptions, and benches the kid like he did late in the season (yes, he WAS held back,IMO for $$ reasons),this guy will continue to breakout...He would have fit DC's yen for a "stretch 4" like a glove...His 9-10 million per, for what he'll produce if playing more than the 27.5 mpg he got last year, will be value compared to what Ibaka and Gibson will be on the market for next year,as RFAs to boot.

If the Sixers make Brook Lopez an offer and the Nets match, does that mean that they can't trade Lopez until December?

Stan reply to sfw on Jul 8 at 16:38

I hope not. I don't think the Sixers can trade their 1st round pick because they gave it to Miami. I don't think they can trade their 2014 pick because of some restrictions.

I think the Houston deal is better for Orlando, as long as Houston is willing to take back Hedo or Richardson.

Supposedly the Nets would have to pay $107 million in luxury tax if they trade for Howard

sfw reply to Stan on Jul 8 at 16:59

Yeah. I don't see it. With Ilyasova & Anderson no longer available seems like their options are narrowing every day. Getting involved with Portland & Minnesota seems like the most obvious deal out there. I hope they have a plan. Right now they get an incomplete.

Ryan Anderson to the Hornets. 4 years and 36 million

So the two worthwhile PFs have each signed reasonable contracts. Contracts the Sixers could've easily afforded had they not wasted $12.5m on Hawes and Nick Young.

sfw reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 17:10


but how would signing either of those guys have advanced the grand plan of...somehow demolishing this team for ping pong balls towards...having a slightly higher chance of possibly drafting some future superstar who doesn't exist?

Rich reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 19:42

Anderson would have been a great fit.

Orlando Summer League starts tomorrow. Anyone excited?

Just throwing this out there, but Bynum's going to be a free agent next summer, right? As things stand, the second year of Hawes' contract would pretty much preclude them from being able to afford a max offer next summer. Obviously, they could make moves between now and then, but that's where they stand right now.

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 21:11

I'm still holding out hope that the 2nd year is a team option or partially guaranteed.

I think the only way that Bynum becomes available in the free agent market is if he is traded to Orlando. He's more of a money/celebrity guy. I really don't think he's going to take less money to go to a team with a better chance at winning a championship.

eddies' heady's on Jul 8 at 22:17

If they didn't even attempt to give Ryan Anderson or Ilyasova a look .............. instead concentrating on Lavoy and Hawes ............. then.......




If the Trailblazers match Nicolas Batum, then the Timberwolves might deal with the 76ers for Iguodala to meet Love's demands. If Iguodala guarantees to opt-in next year, he would be looking at least a year and a half of playing alongside Love and Ricky Rubio.

Either way, the name being thrown around as coming back to the 76ers is Derrick Williams, who I'm not sure is much different than Thad or Harkless as a tweener.

eddies' heady's on Jul 8 at 23:31

If they're really going to look for a PF and not give out a long term contract, I'd like to see them give JJ Hickson a shot. He did OK in Portland after Sac let him go. He's no world-beater or anything, but they could do worse like giving Humphries a 10 mil contract or something of the sort.

Here you go, folks.

Sixers may be the third team in a deal to facilitate Dwight to Brooklyn, with Humphries going to the Sixers. link.

Overpay Humphries and create a super team in Brooklyn in the process. Sounds awesome.

Stuart reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 23:57

If Ken Berger's report that the Magic are hesitant to take on Bynum since he's a FA next year is true, I don't get why we don't come in as the third team to facilitate the trade by taking Bynum.

Our offer of Thad, ET, Vuce, Harkless, Moultrie, etc has to be more attractive than a couple late first round picks and an expensive Brook Lopez, right? It's pretty obvious why we would do it, and I don't think we'd lose Bynum in FA after considering that we have his Bird rights and he's from NJ.

Or, we could just sign Kris Humprhies for $40M.

And send Dwight to Brooklyn in the process of giving Humphries too much money.

Because all reports indicate Bynum wouldn't sign here long term

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 10:46

His options are limited and he would have to take less guaranteed money to go elsewhere. It's a risk but a risk the team should be willing to take.

i keep reading that cavs are the 3rd team

eddies' heady's on Jul 8 at 23:55

Why the heck didn't they go after Ryan Anderson? The Hornets only sending a middling center back to the Magic? We've got one of them sitting on the bench that couldn't even see a minute in the playoffs.

Is this front office or talent evaluators just allergic to any player that can shoot?

I mean, I thought we liked bigs that can shoot perimeter J's?

The Celts maybe getting Courtney Lee just rubs it in a little bit more, huh?

Can anybody really defend or place a minimal amount of logic behind what the eff they are doing? (and give me more than they're setting themselves up for something big in two years with these short deals...)

They amnestied Brand for exactly what foreshadowed premise? On what assumed basis does reasoning proceed concerning their moves?

I have no idea why Orlando is letting him walk when they could've matched. Have even less of an idea why they spent $9.5M on Hawes and Lavoy when they could've had Anderson or Ilyasova for less than that.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 0:16

Yeah I'm puzzled as to why Orlando doesn't want to keep the guy for that amount of money. 9 million for a 16 and 7 guy that can also shoot it from three at a 39% clip on nearly 7 attempts a game that is also 6'10" tall? Meanwhile, we give Spencer Hawes 2.5 million LESS per year to be 7' tall and give handoffs at the elbow. How are us diehards suppose to gain understanding of stuff like this?

While they've been arguing over ribs preparedness at Chili's, the rest of the teams in the division are at least making moves in an attempt to get better. Just wish I could ascertain the reasoning behind their thinking with those two PF's now signed to reasonable deals and comparing it to what you just mentioned we shelled out for what could be called non-difference makers. Or in Hawes' case, a non-motherfucking factor.

Yep, the summer of "at least they didn't overpay to keep Lou," rolls on.

Is the Orl Summer league on TV this year? Can't find a link.

ItAintEZ reply to tk76 on Jul 9 at 6:19

All the games are on NBA TV this year.

Hobbes reply to sfw on Jul 9 at 10:02

...and that is my read/perspective on the summer moves, precisely.

Last year's team, smoke-and-mirrors playoff fun notwithstanding, sucked monkey-b***s. Small additions or adjustments would just be rearranging chairs on a sinking ship. And we were not attracting superstar talent nor were we trading for it with the ho-hum assets on our roster.

I'm a life-long fan and have the scars to prove it. And I'm fine, fine, fine with one- and two-year contracts for relative small change, as well as with the losing that is most likely in our future this year and perhaps next. Bring on the wrecking ball. Bring on the lottery picks. Bring on lots of cap space for one and/or two summers from now.

sfw reply to Hobbes on Jul 9 at 10:15


Stan reply to sfw on Jul 9 at 10:41

If they were looking to rebuild then they should have traded Iguodala prior to the draft when they could have had a lottery pick and potentially drafted Drummond.

I still believe that the offer from Toronto was available. The Raptors traded away an unprotected 1st round pick for Kyle Lowry and went out of their way to lure Steve Nash. I really don't think that team values Ross over Iguodala. They could have used Iguodala to bait Steve Nash.

Anyway this is all speculative. If the Sixers were really looking to rebuild they wouldn't have re-signed Hawes or looked for a 1 year replacement for Lou Williams.

I honestly don't know what to think of this team.

If they were rebuilding they could have traded Iguodala by now and let Hawes walk in free agency.

If they were looking to building a contender they wouldn't have given Hawes a 2 year contract and would have attempted to go after Howard or Gordon.

If they were looking for continuity they would have resigned Williams and kept Brand.

I actually think that the Sixers have no plan. They are just acting on the spur of the moment and making foolish decisions.

Think about this, The Sixers have managed to field a worse team for next year while increasing their salary commitments. That is not a sign of a team looking to rebuild.

sfw reply to Stan on Jul 9 at 11:45

But they are very short term commitments. I think they still believe Hawes may be a legit starting center as he was the beginning of last year in a very small sampling of games before the injury. If that's true he is part of the rebuild process. Also, 1 year to NYoung vs 4 years to Lou is a wise decision. I don't think they wanted 2 long term commitments to substitutes(TYOUNG & Lou).

I think they still believe Hawes may be a legit starting cente

That's more disturbing to hear than the fact that they signed him to a contract. Because that just means the ability to evaluate talent is somewhere along teh lines of mine

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 11:51

We'll certainly get to watch this unfold. He'll be here for at least this year and maybe next(if he isn't out injured).

You're right, his five years in the league already hasn't shown that he isn't a starter yet, give him a couple more years and too much money to really convince you


Ryan Andersen can't start on the same team with Lopez - neither of them can play half way acceptable defense. The Magic could get away with that with Howard there to cover for him. Otherwise having someone who will give you net negative points is a non-starter.

Sixers have the same issue with trying to target him. When your biggest problem inside is centers who are soft, you can't have a PF who plays only one end.

So the logical conclusion is to let the really efficient PF walk and bring in the injury prone soft center who rebounds like an SG for more money? Please.

And Thad provides the toughness next to our soft centers?

Contracts to bad players that are short are not bad contracts

An unprotected 1st round draft pick in 2015 along with Turner, Vuce, Harkless, Lavoy and Moultrie should be more attractive to the Magic than Brook Lopez and MarShon Brooks, right?

The Sixers have only gave 1 and 2-year deals so far. Maybe their offering a trade package to Orlando in which they get Howard and take back Hedo. If all else fails and Howard leaves they would just rebuild and not worry about long term financial commitments.

Why should it be more attractive, sheer volume?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 11:04

Because Brook Lopez sucks and the Sixers are offering an unprotected 1st round pick in 2014. There's a chance that Howard doesn't re-sign and Iguodala walks in free agency in 2014. Which makes the Sixers a pretty bad team with Jrue Holiday as their only decent player.

And the players the sixers are offering don't suck?

I'm just confused as to why the sixers sucky players are better than the Nets sucky players

And the (at least) 3 first round picks the Nets are including aren't all Nets picks, so it's hard to say that the sixers pick would be better than say, the cavs pick.

BTW - while Brook Lopes might 'suck' he's better than every big man on the sixers, two of whom you want to include in this trade.

Keep in mind, that the sixers have very few valuable trade assets, and the four names you mentioned aren't better than brook lopez, in fact they all suck in their own ways

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 11:16

I doubt the Cavs or whatever team that takes on Humphries is going to give up an unprotected 1st round draft pick. Brook Lopez might be better than Turner but he's still a soft, inefficient center. At least with the Sixers offer they can get cap relief from Hedo's or Richardson's contracts while getting an unprotected 1st round draft pick.

He's better than all the players you listed, so in your argument the volume of crap the sixers offer compensates for the crap the nets offer

The sixers might have been able to do howard and hedo but see they had to keep spencer hawes and screw up lavoy allen a year ago and get the precious nick young

According to Marc Spears of Yahoo, Humphries deal (as far as the cavs see it) would only be one year - he's just a body - a salary to balance things - but he wants a 4 year deal (which no one seems to be out there offering him anyway)

I read somewhere that the Cavs actually want a first round pick in order to accept signing Humphries. If that is the case i would definitely agree with a 1 year deal for Humphries with all that is left with the cap space and acquire a 1st rounder for the trouble.

The reason why the cavs want something additional is that they can sign humphries out right, so participating in the trade means nothing to them.

Humphries doesn't want a one year deal, and let's see what the cavs get.

Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, leaked by the magic in one last gasp desperate effort to get something that doesn't suck for Dwight Howard.

I doubt the sixers get involved in this, when the 'titular' guy running the show and the actual guy running the show are so old, all the moving parts might confuse them

Stan reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 11:47

It would also satisfy Gilbert;s pride by preventing any more championships for Lebron.

Houston should sign Hump to 2 years just to fuck with Brooklyn.

You're right, teams should make stupid moves to spite other teams, that's good business

That's silly. I do agree that you don't facilitate a trade which creates another team you can't beat, though.

And I disagree, you make the best moves for YOUR franchise and have confidence that you can build a team to beat anyone.

I'm not really worried about the Nets 'super team' cause Joe Johnson is grossly over rated, Dwight will come up small when there's pressure, and the nets will be more capped out than Miami (You see Deron or Dwight taking less than their max to match up like they did in Miami? I don't), not to mention you don't hear a lot of reports of guys lining up to add the supporting cast of the nets like they do in miami.

Miami to me is still easily the better team, their big 3 overall better than the Heats big 3, the ego issue seems to be gone, no insecure big men, and the allure of miami (and no state income tax) drawing vets willing to take less money.

If I'm Cleveland, I only worry about my team since I'm so far from contending it's almost irrelevant...Cleveland needs to do what's best for the cavs, and Houston, well, they're probably going to have a new GM in a year so there's that.

Cleveland and Houston can't beat many teams right now, or for the forseeable future anyway, so what's a couple more years if they add assets.

That's like saying 'the hawks shouldn't have traded joe johnson to the nets because it made the nets better' - the hawks don't care about the nets right now they care about refilling their coffers anyway they can to TRY and build for a championship. They are not content to wallow in mediocrity...that's the sixers

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 11:58

The Cavs are a rebuilding team and Gilbert has a grudge against Lebron. Getting a 1st round pick, obtaining a solid player, and preventing the guy who left their team from winning another championship is a win for the Cavs.

Its not like they can beat the Heat or the Bulls anyway.

So it looks like the Nets need to get a fourth team involved, possibly a team willing to throw in a first-round pick for MarShon Brooks (and his .502 TS).

If this happens, it will be the biggest miracle I've ever seen.

Basically, two players have to do something completely against their own best interest (Lopez and Humprhies are free agents, they can sign anywhere, why are they willing to sit around and help the Nets out?), then you've got the Magic who would have to willingly trade a top-five player for a below-average center (who will be signed for too much money) and a bunch of terrible first-round picks. Then you've got to convince at least one or two other teams to help you out in one way or another to facilitate the deal.

If any one of maybe 20 people, including players, agents, owners and GMs, comes to their senses, the whole deal goes up in smoke.

sfw reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 12:08

Yes. This trade just doesn't make sense for every team but Brooklyn and no sense at all for the free agents. Don't get it.

tk76 reply to sfw on Jul 9 at 13:26

Maybe a certain well connected international owner will make it worth people's while to accommodate his team's needs. An I'm not talking about deals we would read about.

sfw reply to tk76 on Jul 9 at 13:45

Maybe, he threatened to send them to a Hostel?

Stan reply to sfw on Jul 9 at 13:47

lol. Even though it was a crappy movie.

Eli Roth is such a douche

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 12:10

Is Orlando going to give up Hedo, Richardson or Davis in this deal? Otherwise the trade wouldn't make any sense for them.

I don't think the Nets can come up w/ that much salary. I mean, they're basically giving up Lopez, Humphries and maybe Brooks, right? Dwight + Hedo would be $31M next season. Are those three guys going to equal like $25M in salary?

Stan reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 12:31

Maybe the Nets are going to take back Davis or Richardson instead. Hedo's contract is going to expire next year along with the salary they have pay out to Arenas.

It's possible, I guess.

Here's some detail on the players involved: link.

Howard, Richardson, Earl Clark to NJ. Brook Lopez, Damion James, Luke Walton, Sheldon Williams to Orlando, and I presume Humphries and Brooks to Cleveland.

Would you trade Thaddeus Young, Evan Turner, Spencer Hawes
Arnett Moultrie, and an unprotected 1st round pick in 2014 for Howard and Richardson?

Brian reply to Stan on Jul 9 at 13:02