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Nearly Unwatchable, Nearing the Abyss

eddies' heady's on Dec 17 at 9:52

My fellow Sixers addict, sorry, but I can't offer you any assistance with this. The only reason I can offer you as to how this season won't be over by January 9th is to tell you the even worse harsh reality that the season is already over on Dec. 17th. Book it, put a fork in it, it's done. D.O.N.E. Done. The stove doesn't have a see-thru window on the front of it, but the toast is already burned. Pessimist? Maybe; Realist? More likely.

If they somehow make it into the lottery, do they get to keep the pick this year?

Mike reply to mopey on Dec 17 at 10:00

think the pick we traded to Orlando is lottery protected for 2 years

Doesn't really matter. I'm too old to get caught up in who they take at #14. These middling first rounders are window dressing, and maybe a way to augment a solid core, but in and of themselves, they're useless. Makes me chuckle when people lament trading Vucevic, Harkless and a mid-first rounder in the Bynum deal. Those guys are all so dime-a-dozen it isn't even funny.

well Holiday was the #17 pick, Bynum was #10. just saying.

and Vucevic is averaging almost 12 rebounds this month. i know someone has to grab them on a bad team, but he's still just 22. and no one knows anything about Harkless yet. if Bynum doesn't ever play a game here i don't know how we're supposed to justify the trade, even though according to everyone on the planet "they had to do it." i remember people saying the same thing about the Brand signing too.

That's great. I hope they go on to have awesome role playing careers. I will never lose sleep over trading away a role player until role players are the final piece to putting a contender on the floor. They're completely useless without the core pieces. I'd trade away 100 of them for a 10% chance at building a team around a guy like Bynum. 4 mid-firsts and Iguodala? That's a bargain for one of the handful of franchise-changing talents in the league.

Marcus reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 10:47

Yea I hear where you coming from they took a gamble and so far its looking like it may not work out but its a gamble you have to take. Who knows Andrew may heal up and do his thing. I just don't know if u resign him for a max contract or not that's a huge gamble that can push the franchise back a couple years if Andrew performs if he comes back that's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make.

i agree with you i just don't think you can be certain the picks they traded won't turn into a franchise changing piece. i feel pretty confident Vucevic won't be anything but a role player. but we still don't know about Harkless, and you can definitely draft someone in the future with a pick they traded.

Eh, Jrue is pretty much the best-case scenario in the middle of the first. Bynum came right out of high school shortly after Kwame scared everyone away from high school big men. If you're counting on mid-firsts to save the franchise, the franchise is doomed.

Mike reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 11:10

i'm pretty much at the point where i do believe this franchise is forever doomed anyway

Paul George and Roy Hibbert is all I could come up with and Hibbert is having an atrocious season.

I been a redskins fan for a very long time & never had hope we could turn things around & now look at us. I believe the Sixers will start to turn things around just like the redskins. Andrew is the key to that and if he plays he would do wonders for this team

A franchise changing quarterback will do that - that wouldn't happen if picking in the mid teens like a 'lottery' sixers team would do...the situations are not comparable, bad contracts stink a lot more in the NBA, one player can make a much more significant difference.

And oh yeah - before REdSkins fans get all excited about Robert Griffin and the future, look at his fragility and look at season 2 Cam Newtown after the league had a full year of film on him.

If Bynum plays he will do wonders for the team, if he comes back healthy, isn't a whiny gimme the ball bitch that he ended up in LA and re-signs, and still says healthy.

If If's and buts were candy and nuts

He has a real point about playing w/ Kobe. No way Kobe should've had a 30%+ usage rate over the past three seasons w/ Bynum in the middle. Bynum's usage rate was 17% one of those years, w/ a TS% over .60.

Expressing your point properly is a sign of maturity - and I think he comes off as whiny bitch...Collins inability to use 'size advantages' that he's had while he's been the sixers coach be it big men - or small guys guarding Jrue Holliday - isn't exactly something to hang his hat on.

Kobe actually agreed with him, which was funny. He comes off like a moron, but basically what he said was that playing w/ Kobe helped him early in his career, because defenses focused on Kobe. But later in his career, he wasn't getting the ball as much as he should've been. It's all accurate.

Using the transitive power then - and look at Evan's Turners numbers across the board where he's in the 'PPG/R/Ast' air that Iguodala used to be in - Iguodala really was stunting his growth

Turner could probably make the case. His per/36 numbers aren't really that improved. The shooting efficiency is the only meaningful gain I see, and Iguodala's absence could be helping with that, I suppose. Turner's typically the only small on the floor who's encouraged to shoot from the outside by the other team.

Not sure how one player being gone makes the others shooting form fall into place - but ok :)

PS - Kobe taking the high road - maybe maturity can happen - never happened with Shaq - didn't think it would with Kobe

Actually didn't see it as kobe taking the high road, just kobe being like, "Yeah. I hog the ball. So what?"

Lurker reply to GoSixers on Dec 18 at 23:13

I'll agree with you about injury concerns about RG3.

I disagree with you about Newton having a down season. His team will most likely finish with the same record as last year (Raiders and Saints left). His interceptions are down, however, so are his rushing touchdowns. He started out like gangbusters the 1st half of his rookie year. Then he either hit the rookie wall or like you said film became available on him. If you look at how Newton has played over the last 2 months, you'll see he is playing much better. I'd say you are incorrect about Newton having a down year.

Judging a QB on a teams won loss record is like judging a baseball pitcher on his W-L record - it ignores much of what's going on.

(THere's a great article out there by the way comparing the seasons of Cliff Lee and Cole Hamels which are pretty near identical in every way but the W-L record)

I think he's having a down year and I've heard others say the same thing, and at the same time, it's kind of to be expected that you'll have a down year you're second year because people just know you better.

The third year for Newton (and Griffin when he gets there) will be the telling ones...the league adjusts to you, now how do you adjust...though it's also up to your team to surround you with quality offensive weapons and hope they don't get hurt

The answer to your question is simple; we have a good chance at being better than Boston or Milwaukee by the end of the year if Jrue comes back soon and Bynum comes back ever. Those teams aren't much better than we are. I assume they both have tough stretches of their schedules too; they just aren't now. In the short term we'll fall behind, and later when they have their tough stretches we'll catch up to some extent, though of course I can't predict with any sort of confidence that we'll close the gap.

That's a good way to look at it.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 15:54

Also, there are about 6 teams with no chance of making the playoffs (Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, Detroit, Charlotte, and probably Orlando - though they do have the 8th best defensive rating in the league right now), so that leaves 9 teams fighting for 8 spots. We basically have a one in two chance, then, of being the 8th team, though I do think that a Bynum-less Sixers team is weaker than either of the other 2 teams on the bubble.

The better question i think is, assuming they get Bynum back in time for the playoffs, is making the playoffs as a low seed worth giving up the pick?

Right now i'd say yes, because i think this team with a healthy Bynum is a contender, but i might change my mind if they fail to produce at a great rate if/when Bynum returns from injury.

As long as Bynum returns to full health before February and plays the way we expect him to, i think the Sixers will have a chance to make the playoffs. Forget about making a run at home court advantage though. If they do make the playoffs, they won't be better than 7-8 seed and play Miami or New York in the first round.

Playoffs. More value in seeing the team play together in the postseason than the #14 pick.

I guess, though a good playoff run and 20 games from Bynum over inflates his value because people get blinded - ignoring injury history.

I'd like to see Bynum play this year cause I'd like to see what's possible, but playoffs or not, if he's able Bynum has to put in some serious minutes or he's going to lose money

but if a playoff run inflates his value, isn't that to the Sixers' advantage since they can offer him a bigger deal than anybody else?

I suppose - if you want to be the team vastly over paying the immature injury prone center...sure

tk76 reply to Xsago on Dec 17 at 13:53

They are giving up that pick eventually so this year is no better or worse than another. If they do get a lottery picky in the next few years better for it to be a high lottery pick. But jrue would have to be out a long time for that to happen.

How many years is the pick they owe to Miami protected before it becomes two 2nd rounders? Just this year or next one as well? if it's just this year than it might make some sense to miss the playoffs. If not they better be running on all cylinders in March and April.

If they can make it through this part of the schedule at LEAST close to .500, then, if Bynum returns... Anything can happen.

Won't happen if Jrue's foot doesn't get better soon, though.

Here's to hoping the basketball gods don't feed us a crap sandwich for the holidays, gentlemen.

Yea tough to be positive when you're just rooting for injuries to heal. Was at the game so couldn't even change the channel during the long stretches of Dorrel running point and Spence being the focal point of the offense. All I watch for now is to hopefully see Evan improve, kid was scared of going to the rim last night b/c of Dwight. I don't want Jrue to rush back but damn if they aren't awful without him.

Speeke I was there too, and confounded by Dorrell at the point. That was so weird. Kwame and Hawes were god awful. it was a shit-show. It was fun to see Swaggy go off though.

Say the Sixers pass on Bynum - won't they have a ton of cap space?

Nope. Kwame + Spence = $9M. Jrue's extension kicks in. Turner's making a ton on his rookie deal. Thad's making good money. I did the math the other day, think it was less than $5M in cap space this summer. If they let everyone walk the year after, and don't re-sign Turner, they'd have max money that year, but pretty much just Thad and Jrue under contract.

Richardson is also under contract. $6.5M, I think.

There is also the thing about the 50/50 split in the BRI kicking in right? The cap will likely be lower as a result. They might be able to offer a max (or something close to it) if they find a way to trade Hawes, Kwame and/or Richardson for expiring contracts.

Don't think that gets them to a max offer for a free agent. Probably have to get rid of all three without taking any money back in the deal. And how would they possibly accomplish that?

Marcus reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:25

Brian you are smoking crack if you really think what cam newton has done this yr will happen torg3 . One newton is not the competitor or player rg3 is I know u maybe a lil tight that the eagles suck and the redskins is the division but that was a really bad comparison. Anybody that watches football or know anything a out rg3 knows its not likely rg3 will have the same fate newton has so far.

Wasn't me. I like RG3, only thing that can hold him back is injury, imo.

Marcus reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:34

I also would say that's the only thing that could hurt him is injury. I know this is a Sixers blog & I bleed Sixers but I must say httr (hail to the redskins)

Marcus reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:55

Brian my apologies didn't realize it was gosixers who made that statement

It was me who said it, and you type as a fan of the RedSkins, the more tape teams have, the more prepared they are...I'm not really sure how you have all this insight into who Cam Newton is and how Robert Griffins inherent 'awesomesuceness' will prevent him from taking a step back.

He's having a good first season, so did Cam Newtown - Philip Rivers was a good quarterback at one point - people used to fear Eli Manning, the hype machine is in full force because having the Redskins viable is good for the NFL and ESPN, last year the hype machine was in full force for Newton.

You're right though, Griffin is no Newton - he's much more fragile and likely to be injured when he runs

Marcus reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 16:54

Lmaooo its not about having all this insight all I simply said was you smoking crack if you think rg3 & newton are comparable. I'm not saying it can't happen but me personally I don't deal with the what if this or what if that or next yr crap let's talk about now and right now he's not newton and he's not playing like newton.

Well, I'm not sure what language you're speaking, so I can't continue with this conversation. If you don't understand the comparison I'm making, you don't, and that's fine, I didn't say anything about their skill sets being similar, I was talking about their hype, and how once the league gets tape on a guy, the league starts to figure him out, and now they're going to have a full season of tape on Griffin.

Marcus reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 17:04

Lmaooo its no hype he's the real deal. I respect your opinion respect mines as well. I'm talking the same language as you difference is I don't see it your way but I respect your opinion all I ask is that you respect mines.

Mines huh? Are you planning on exploding things somewhere? You're a raving redskins fan, you have an inherent bias that will make you ignore the parallels, but please, don't imply we're speaking the same language. I'm speaking (and writing) English.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 18:03

Please don't denigrate commenters for speaking or writing in slang. It doesn't mean they're unintelligent (or not English-speakers when they're talking in a dialect of English).

mymanjrue reply to Tray on Dec 17 at 20:32

hear hear. dude's gotta realize that having learned to talk in lower merion doesn't make him any better or worse than anyone else

mymanjrue reply to mymanjrue on Dec 17 at 20:46

abd the main line is my ancestral homeland!

Marcus reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 19:56

Honestly your the biggest ass on this board & I'm sure most people on here would aggree. Anytime somebody doesn't aggree with your point of view there dumb or not smart. I was speaking English but your such an asshole it maybe hard for you to understand. Like tray said don't confuse slang with not being able to write english & more so I wasn't using slang just speaking my peace.

Jesse reply to GoSixers on Dec 18 at 7:59

You're just comparing RGIII and Cam Newton because they're both black. There have been plenty of QBs who have generated a lot of hype in their first years - Elway, Marino, Montana, Peyton Manning, etc. - who haven't sucked thereafter, so isolating Cam Newton as a comparison to RGIII is just racist. Unless you think they have the same game, which is absurd, just because they can both run.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 18 at 7:42

RG3 = Cam Newton because they're both black. Jeez Marcus why can't you understand the correlation that GoSixers is trying to make?

Actually that's not the comparison I was making, I was making a comparison purely based on hype. In fact I made that clear repeatedly.

I love the whole 'he ruins the blog' assignations when people live to attack everything I say :)

Having been EDUCATED in multiple locations, I believe that I could expect people to speak with at least an 8th grad education 'mmj' - the thread in which I commented regarding the mines lacks any sort of grammatical syntax, proper use of any words, and any sort of intelligence behind it besides the ravings of an admitted hog (PS - being a redskins and sixers fan, worse than being a Yankees and sixers fan, at least they're not in the same division as the relative Philadelphia team)

As for whatever Tray said, I have the same response I always have to anything he says. It's written below

If the Wizards of all teams could find a way to trade away Arenas, anything is possible. Two year deals aren't that untradeable IMO. The bigger problem might actually be Richardson who has 3 years left, but at least he is playing decently well.

eddies' heady's reply to Xsago on Dec 18 at 9:39

Two year deals may not be that untradeable, but a 2 year deal to Spencer friggin' Hawes is the definition of untradeable. I firmly believe, and have since the deal went public, that no one will trade for that tub of lard for that amount of money, expiring or not. It'll never happen, and those that were claiming it wasn't a bad deal from the beginning because it was trade-friendly were way off-base imo. Of course, there's nothing more that I'd relish better than being proved wrong here. But again, I'd go as far as to say I'd give up basketball watching altogether if they ever performed a miracle of such proportions. That's how far from it taking place I think it is.

And who was the bonehead that felt giving Kwame a player option was beneficial? I think they'd have a really tough time trying to move him too. Bad or below average teams aren't going to want these guys, and contenders sure as heck wouldn't have a want/need for them either I'd think.

Packaged with some other flotsam? Maybe, but it would cause you to bring back an atrocious contract(s), no?

Any contract can be traded if you're willing to take back a worse contract.

I hate Hawes as much as you do, but i think you are wrong. He certainly isn't worth 6 million, but i think he is tradeable for an expiring as long as that expiring is just that - an expiring contract, not a player that can actually play. A lot of teams in the NBA often fall into the trap of paying a lot money for a big man.

What i am scared of actually is not his "tradeability", but that Collins and the organization will actually consider trading him away for an expiring. They gave him the contract after all...

You're wrong...sorry, no one is taking on hawes money when they could have the contract expire instead, the caps getting tighter, free agency is getting wilder, a team would be completely ASININE to take on Hawes money unless he's the missing 'piece' that makes them a contender.

Please find me one team that you can say 'hawes is that missing piece'

It was all such a brilliant plan...until Bynum predictably became injured for an indeterminate amount of time and once again crushed all of our hopes for anything more than a respectable finish.

this is usually around the time that i swear off the sixers forever and pledge my allegiance to another team(in order to justify keeping league pass). happens every season. but i always come crawling back. but don't think i'm not going to watch all the GSW games I come across. Take that, Sixers!!!

Bynum was injured for your 'indeterminate amount of time' when the sixers traded for him...and he delayed off season treatment longer than he needed to (which was predictable based on his last journey involving the world cup.

If you're a sixer fan you won't give up on them now any more then when they traded barkley for peanut shells (no - not peanuts - peanuts have more use)

Marcus reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 16:32

I definetly aggree with that statement real Sixers fans are going to stick by them regardless

I'll watch, but to be honest, haven't enjoyed the past two games at all. Got home late Friday night, my in-laws were over. After they went to bed, sat down to enjoy the Sixers. No Jrue, could barely keep my eyes open during the game. Then last night I was looking forward to the game pretty much all week, put the kids down early, settled in...then had to watch that mess. Ugh. Hope Jrue is back tomorrow.

Marcus reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:58

Yea its a rough time to be a Sixers fan but honestly they always find some way to pull through. All we can have is hope its definetly not looking good for us but there's that a lil bit of hope thats what keeps me going.

Rob_STC reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 18:23


What you are describing is the problem with the NBA for the last 20 years. No parity because there is too many teams and too few stars. Only sport of the 4 that is truly predictable, Any team to get 2 stars have the edge, 3 and it's a championship run. So there winds up being about 4 really good teams, 4 pathetic teams and 22 mediocre teams who can all fight it out for the lower seeds. The middling teams never seem to get over the hump unless they get some kind of a miracle break. The Sixers have been stuck as a mediocre team for years. This was the first year with a player like Bynum where they looked to have a chance to get out of that. It doesn't seem like the collective bargaining agreement did a whole lot to change the NBA. Frustrating as hell as a fan to always be looking for next year. Your right as a whole those 14th picks or 2nd picks for that matter unless you come across a Kevin Durant don't usually do a thing for you. Unless the NBA eliminates like 6 franchises I don't see it changing.

The CBA was never going to increase competitiveness (or parity as it is in the NFL) - the CBA doesn't care about competitiveness, it cares about the owners making as much as they can and the players making as much as they can - they couldn't give a rats ass about their fans in negotiations - that's quite obvious if you just look at the NHL - they were close to done (after kicking Bettman and Fehr out, who the HELL gives Fehr another job by the way? The NHLPA - idiots) and then it blew up over some minor things.

The lip service both sides give to fans is just to sway public opinion against the other - hell - the majority of the NFL money comes from TV rights, that's why they don't care that the Thursday games are crap as long as people keep watching...and it's why I think they'll end up being on almost every night of the week in the future (save for Wednesday unless it coincides with a bye after the wednesday game...)

Jesse reply to Brian on Dec 18 at 8:02

"put the kids down early"


Tom Moore on Dec 17 at 19:10

Story (with Jrue Holiday video): Sixers may not have Holiday to start daunting 11-game stretch:


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