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Another Body Blow

Well, what do you know... The Sixers killer is now a Sixer.

Dan Gelston: 76ers sign former Gonzaga guard Jeremy Pargo to a 10-day contract.

How many 10-day periods are left in the season? They've got Pargo for 2, then who's next on the d-league PG revolving door list?

Well, your site appears to be broken, so go ahead and tell us all why Jrue is the most overrated and Bynum is second. Also, if you get the chance, post a link to where you said the Sixers were crazy for making the Bynum trade back when they actually made it.

Can you back this up with something more reliable than philadunkia? Maybe bleacher report?

That's one opinion. Another might be that he's a point guard carrying an artificially high usage rate (with average scoring efficiency for the position) because he plays for a team whose only other legitimate offensive weapon is an undersized four, not to mention the dregs on the wings and the softest centers in the league. And when you make statements saying he gets outplayed more than half the time (which is false) you aren't taking into account the fact that every other team focuses their entire defense on Jrue, while the Sixers leave Jrue on an island, usually to play 2 on 1 in every pick and role, while they cover for the plethora of minus defenders Jrue shares the floor with.

You would've had a better anti-Jrue argument last season when he was below average offensively in a secondary role.

In Bynum's case, I take it injured = overrated.

Thoughts are not facts

Yeah. The logic isn't sound, but you're on the record. Congrats.

haha i love Grantland:

The Knicks were up three with about 11 minutes to go and the Wizards were running their, "Hmmm ... OK?" set, which is kind of like the pin-down the Thunder run, minus the movement and the hope...

sounds similar to the Sixers offense

Sixers are really bad from the top of the key:


The most interesting thing to me is how every team gets an actual number except for simmons pet celtics :)

When healthy Bynum is better than iguodala, one thing you would have to factor in is scarcity - how many players in the league are better than bynum when healthy at their position - it could be argued that the number is one (and honestly I think there's an argument that a 'motivated' bynum is better than the Lakers big man who is more sensitive than a 5 year old girl on LIttle House on the Prairie)

I was probably one of Iguodalas biggest fans but when both are fully healthy - and engaged - Bynum is better than he is - he just is in my opinion - though it's not really a fair comparison due to the vagaries of size and position

PS - Jrue is having a great season for a 22 year old as well - turns out he's 22 and he grew up rather close to where I work - didnt know that

I'm one of Iguodala's biggest fans but there's no way he is HOF worthy

Not sure how seriously you wanna take something that lists Monta Ellis with a better probability - but things like this are always fun to use as bar debate tools :)


So - you posit an argument with no factual evidence supporting it - when called out on it - you make someone else do the work (work he's already done actually in variety of forms this year)

ESPN picked well

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 7 at 13:59

Sunnergren's okay.

Well - you said so - and you put it in all caps - it must be so.

I'm sure if one did the research - one could find players with better careers than Iguodala who aren't yet in the hall of fame.

Opponent PER isn't perfect, but 82 Games says Jrue's opposite numbers have a 15.1 PER, and he has a 19.4 PER. So according to them, he's winning his matchup.

One on one matchups aren't the point though. Jrue plays with a bunch of bad players that are generally bad on both ends of the floor.

Rich reply to Rich on Feb 7 at 14:26

Actually, I didn't see Brian's post. He made the point that I was trying to make.

It's a pretty pointless argument, and extremely subjective. If you ask Dollar Bill, Jrue has lost every matchup, ever.

Just a quick look at the box scores, I've got Jrue winning 30, losing 14 so far this season. A handful could've gone either way.

Like this one and this one.

In the first, Dragic had an efficient 21 points and 6 dimes, but Jrue had a triple-double. Who won that matchup? In the second, Rondo had 20 assists, but Jrue had 21 and 14. Who won that one?

If you're making the case Jrue is overrated, you give both to the other guy.

Steven Toll reply to Brian on Feb 7 at 15:55

Parker, Westbrook, Jennings, Felton all outplayed Jrue 2x.

Knight, Pargo, Dragic, Barea/Ridnour, Deron, George Hill all did once.

That is 14 games right there off the top of my head

LOL at 30-14 in Jrue's matchups this year

See, here's a good example. The first game you gave to Felton, he had 11 pts, 1 assist. Jrue had 27 and 7. The second game you gave to Felton he had 16/8, Jrue had 17/8. Only advantage to Felton in either game was turns.

I compared starters, didn't add together the lines for all PGs who played on the other team.

One on one matchups aren't the point though. Jrue plays with a bunch of bad players that are generally bad on both ends of the floor.

This isn't an argument that worked when Iguodala was here and it's unlikely to be an argument that works now...people seem to not want to see it, the team aspect, they want it to be as easy to parse as baseball which while a 'team game' is at any given moment only about a player or two - so it's easy to isolate player from team - not so much in other sports (one of the issues in advanced metrics in other sports being useful, basketball has other issues of course, but they are specific to basketball). Jrue got the big contract - Jrue will now be the target (unless Bynum is given a big fat contract cause I don't think he'll ever live up to the standards people have in Philadelphia with his injury concerns)

Stating opinions as facts does not make them thus. Holiday is having an excellent season for a 21 year old. There are plenty of stats that point to this. Per 100 possession type stats with him on the court and off and his PER versus his counterpoint. Also, he has been praised in articles recently by people like Zach Lowe, Bradley Doolittle, and David Thorpe. Lowe and Doolittle are well versed in the advanced statistical part of the game and Thorpe is a more typical scout/coachi type although he is also familiar with some advanced stats. I have read these guys many times in the past and they are not afraid to criticize or say someone is over-rated.

As for Bynum not being that much better then Igoudala that argument can be made for 98% of the players in the league. Iggs is a very good player. But I believe Bynum is worth at least a few more wins and that is actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things not to mention he is a better fit as Igoudala without a doubt retarded Holiday's development because of all the ball handling and play making Idougala did.

SixersRising on Feb 7 at 16:16

Sixers signed Jeremy Pargo. Any thoughts on this one? Personally, I hope we don't find ourselves needing to play him any more than we played Mack.

Glad last night's game wasn't against Charlotte. That offense wasn't prepared to beat anyone with that shooting performance.

Even more glad Moultrie is going to be guaranteed minutes while Thad is out. He looked like he belonged on the floor last night, which given his experience level is saying something. Hopefully he earns some playing time so that when Thad gets back he can get reasonable rest. Collins has always said Thad is at his best in 7 minute stretches. And I'd like to see Lavoy on the court less, he's not showing much energy.

Lavoy looked energized to me last night. He was battling for o-boards, at least. Wasn't grabbing them, but he was battling.

Jrue + Turner + Hawes = 0/17 on long twos last night according to hoopdata (the play-by-play on b-r.com is different, which is weird).

Depends on where you're getting your info - I know that hoopdata is getting their info from ESPN shot charts - don't know where B-R gets theris. There's no one consistently accurate provider of information sadly :)

Well, Collins raved about Moultrie after the draft last year and said that he was absolutely the player they wanted because he was clearly better than the other similar players they brought in for workouts. Yet, he's hardly played him at all on a team with a shortage of capable big men. Now it would seem that he has little choice but to allow his personnel choices follow his rhetoric. The only thing good about last night's game is that Moultrie gave a very respectable performance in his first game playing significant minutes.

Tom Moore on Feb 7 at 17:51

Sixers story (with Jeremy Pargo video): Collins: 'Toughest year I've had as a coach'


Bulls discussing a Bargnani / Boozer swap with the Raps (other ancillary pieces would make salary work) - that guy sounds like TT would be thrilled

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 7 at 19:03

I don't know who TT is, but I wouldn't do that if I were Chicago. If you're Toronto, though, I guess you end up with a pretty decent chance at the 8th seed, while continuing to destroy your future.

Bulls coach.

Oh yeah. Yeah, I don't think he'd like that deal very much.

jrue in the skills challenge

so three starters are hurt while on huge contracts, there's one all-star carrying a bunch of role players, and no draft picks or farm system at all...sounds like these Sixers have been Amaro'd

johnrosz on Feb 7 at 21:08

I am honestly stunned by how terrible Dwight looks this season

God, I really hope Steve Toll doesn't start to make regular appearances on this blog. He's one of the main reasons I avoid Philadunkia.

seen his named mentioned on liberty ballers also

buke reply to Chris on Feb 8 at 0:00

Sounds like you've led a sheltered life. I really don't mind his appearances. At least he keeps the other blowhards occupied.

so does the new/current CBA allow guy sto be put on any sort of long term injured list and remove their cap hit, like the NHL does?

kinda, they have an injury exception but im not really sure how it works

Sharone Wright on Feb 8 at 9:06

Adam Aron appeared on 94 WIP this morning. He said that DC is not burnt out, but what else is he going to say on that question?

Only comment that stood out to me was that Bynum is the hardest working guy at practice--3 hours per day. Hard to believe that one.

Is 3 hours a day a lot of work to rehab and get in shape from a sports injury? I don't know - I mean - maybe it's just the number and my perceptoin of it - but 3 hours doesn't seem like a lot does it? And - is it 3 hours in a row - or an 3 one hour sessions.

I don't know - no news from the 'Bynum area' of the sixes gives me any warm fuzzies

Sharone Wright reply to GoSixers on Feb 8 at 12:24

I thought the "hardest working guy at practice" was the part that is hard to believe.

Tom Moore on Feb 8 at 11:00

Sixers poll question: Will Thad Young or Andrew Bynum return from injury to play first?


To vote, go halfway down right side of site.

Twitter: @tmoorepburbs

buke reply to Tom Moore on Feb 8 at 11:14

Perhaps a more important question is which one is more likely to return at close to 100%. I believe that Bynum is more likely than not to play this year, but I have no idea how long he will play and in what condition.

heartwarming that there aren't just morons in Philly:

•Mark Kiszla of The Denver Post: To score 13.5 points per game, Nuggets forward Andre Iguodala is being paid $15 million per year, give or take a Porsche. Even by the wacky standards of the NBA, that does not compute. No way, no how, is Iguodala worth the money. So here's the key question for Denver coming down the stretch: Can the Nuggets afford to build a contender around Iguodala, given the constraints of the NBA salary cap and this franchise's aversion to paying the luxury tax on talent? Iguodala is a clamp-down defender, a true professional and a compelling interview. But the NBA is not a spelling bee. You don't get paid $15 million for giving intelligent sound bites or getting eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. For $15 million, was it too much to expect for the 29-year-old Iguodala to lead the Nuggets in scoring, be an all-league defender and stamp his personality on the locker room? His defense has met expectations. The rest of the shiny package? Empty.

Tuck reply to Mike on Feb 8 at 12:48

Sounds like another Monta Ellis fan.

To be fair, Iggy is having a down year but that's no excuse for this guy's moronic rant. Add him to the majority of national basketball writers who really don't understand the game.

Tray reply to Tuck on Feb 8 at 14:24

I always thought that on a contender Iguodala would be a third or fourth option, which is what he is now (although this year he's a really inefficient third option that can't hit a jump shot or a free-throw).

Heh. Yeah, I wonder what this guy thought about Melo getting knocked out in the first round 8 times in 9 years.


So I decided to look at the Sixers Points Per Shot statitistics, and I'm surprised to see D.Wright is at 1.15, better than our other perimieter plays that have played a lot of minutes. He seems like he has been struggling most of the year, but he has been more efficient than I thought. Has he been screwing up in other areas to get himself int he doghouse? Or was there a string of games where he was wildly efficient, bolstering up his total numbers?

It's tough to figure out why he landed in the doghouse. Seems like Collins thinks he isn't assertive enough. His points-per-shot is always going to be high because such a huge percentage of his shots are threes.

He shoots a lot of threes and gets to the line more than the others. That's why his point per shot numbers are higher.

I think he is in the doghouse for major rotation mental lapses on the defensive end actually. Wright can make a nice steal or block every now and then but often completely loses positioning within the Sixers defensive schemes. Sometimes he looks like a rookie who doesn;t understand the NBA plays on defense. The reason why i am surprised for his benching though is because when he isn't lost he is actually one of the better defenders on the team. But i guess all Doug cares is following the game plan not being reasonably effective when you don't follow the game plan all the time. I think many coaches share the same philosophy though to be honest, including some of the best.

The injured clippers will attempt to play tonight versus the heat.

Assuming no major setbacks whether or not they play tonight I'd expect to see them against the sixers

Mike reply to GoSixers on Feb 8 at 14:28

i was looking forward to that game tonight with a CP3 return, but now it sounds like a bunch of guys on Miami have the flu

Wade Bosh and Allen are game time decisions, if paul, griffin and billups are active I wouldn't be surprised to see the heat guys 'tough it out'

It's on ESPN tonight so they're obviously going to hype the game - they're billing it as a possible finals preview (which honestly it is - no one in the east looks like they can stop a healthy heat in 7 games cause the only team that can attack their weakness would be a healthy sixers roster that lacks a lot of the other pieces needed ;) )

Mike reply to GoSixers on Feb 8 at 19:14

agreed on Miami (though I think Indy would give them an even better fight than last year). i don't think the Clippers have a shot to beat SA or OKC though. i think they could even lose in the 1st round if they have to play someone like Denver or GS.

Bobcats and Nets talking a humphries for ben gordon swap - cause - you know - if you want floor spacing - ben gordon is the guy to get

I liked this line

The Nets view Humphries, averaging 6.0 points and 6.4 rebounds a game, as expendable because he and Reggie Evans are similar-styled players.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 8 at 17:43

You don't think Ben Gordon is the guy to get if you want floor spacing, or is the "cause - you know -" actually non-sarcastic? Ben Gordon, you know, has shot over 40% from three in all but one season in his career, three seasons ago. I'd be very surprised if there's any shooter as good on the market.

I wonder if any team would make a trade for Shawn Marion just so they could void his contract and get out of paying him?


there was a piece on Carl Landry today on Grantland. throw him into the pile of bigs including Hickson who were totally available this summer. the most depressing thing about this team by far is that Hawes and Kwame will both be on this team next season.

Excerpt from Zach Lowe's article today on Grantland:
"Evan Turner … oof. I’ve been cautiously bullish on Turner, mostly because he can do some things — slick interior passes through tight spaces, for instance — that are rare skills. He’s also developed a usable corner 3, huge for his long-term prognosis. But bad things happen when he drives to the basket. The Sixers have scored just 0.93 points per possession when Turner drives, the second-worst figure among camera players with a usable sample of drives. Only Eric Maynor, now benched, has been worse. Turner has shot just 18-of-43 on drives."

Good to see the stats back up the eye test of how ineffective the Turner head-down, bull rush into the lane is.

Mike reply to Sean on Feb 8 at 19:32

i need to read that column. been waiting to hear some analysis from that camera system.

Tray reply to Sean on Feb 8 at 19:37

Harden averages nine drives per game, which is fifth among players whose teams have the cameras. The top four: Tony Parker (10.8), Rajon Rondo (10.1), Russell Westbrook (9.3), and Jrue Holiday (9.2). As an aside, that Holiday number is a fantastically good sign for Philly. He ranked below average by this metric last season, and he’s piling up about twice as many drives per game this season, according to the 2011-12 data I’ve reviewed. Philly is still below average as a team in drives per game, which tells you how much heavy lifting Holiday is doing for a very limited bunch.

Statman on Feb 8 at 20:14

Today's trivia question: there are five current players in the NBA who have played over 100 games in their NBA careers and started every one of them. Blake Griffin is #5 at 197 games. (Kyrie Irving is #6 at 89 games.) Can you name the top 4, who have all played over 400 games without coming off the bench? Hint: LeBron and Dwight Howard have come off the bench once each in their careers, Tim Duncan twice, Paul Pierce three times.


andre iguodala



Statman reply to sixerfan1220 on Feb 8 at 20:25

Good guesses. You got the hardest one (Iguodala, #2 at 665), but none of the others is correct. Kobe played behind Eddie Jones at the start of his career, remember?

i was 2 kobe's first year

MCT reply to Statman on Feb 8 at 20:28


Kevin Durant

Chris Paul

not in that order, dont know the 4th

MCT reply to MCT on Feb 8 at 21:17

Carmelo is the 4th

So it's Carmelo, Iguodala, Paul, Durant - in that order (most games to fewest)

Statman reply to MCT on Feb 8 at 23:01

You got it. Interestingly, another former Sixer that you might not expect, Hersey Hawkins, started the first 813 games of his career.

In my opinion this team needs youth and energy. I bet they could find some tall energized ballers in south america. I really am tired of watching this team go with low depth and low energy, back and forth. Can they sign guys from anywhere or do they need to all wait and declare for next years draft? I know finding an nba caliber player isnt easy but thats not all there is to it. Having young athletic guys who are injury free and highly motivated and able to fill minutes. Sounds like something worth bringing in, and who know, they could end up with someone like faried.

Marc Stein says we may trade Turner:

• The Sixers, sources say, are open to a shakeup as they continue to wait for the return of Andrew Bynum to give All-Star point guard Jrue Holiday some badly needed help. And I'm told Philly, as such, is shopping (or at least making calls to gauge the value of) swingman Evan Turner.

I wouldn't do either of these. Dalambert is useless long term.

I would prefer Turner/Hawes for either Josh Smith or Paul Millsap. I'm not sure where either leaves Thad, maybe as the starting small forward or back in his sixth man role.

At this point i don't like Josh Smith. He is only marginally better than Thad (if that) and will ask for a far higher salary. Not to mention he is older. And lets face it they are very similar type of players.

I'd prefer a legit starting wing for Turner/Hawes. Guys i like (and could be available) include: JJ Reddick, Dudley, Matthews and Granger.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Feb 9 at 9:19

Please let there be just one fool out there. Someone has to look at his counting numbers and think he's more than what he actually is.

David Kahn, perhaps.

Tray reply to Tray on Feb 9 at 13:09

Or what about whoever runs Utah?

Greg reply to Tray on Feb 9 at 13:10

If Turner isnt going to play point, I could see him fitting well with a team like the clippers. I imagine this would take the pressure off him to try to score and chris paul and would show him if he is hurting the offense. He could benefit them by just providing another body who can rebound, shoot 3s and play defense, but once he settles in i wouldnt be surprised to see more of an Iguodala role that varies.

Then again, they probably wouldn't offer much, and I think his game is still improving each year.

If these rumors are true, looks like they got Mitchell to write a "save Turner's trade value" piece. Otherwise known as excuses for Turner.

hahaha just saw a commercial on CSN hyping the matchup of...Hawes vs Kemba Walker damn is this team bad

Tray reply to das411 on Feb 9 at 17:33

Hawes vs. Kemba? At least Kemba vs. Jrue makes some sense. Kemba's had a few good games recently.

Back to the discussion of lower bounds, I think we can all agree that Turner is basically at his lower bound, meaning that he can't really get much worse unless he gets injured etc. A players upper bound or ceiling is usually much higher than his lower bound. Ive never heard of a player whose lower and upper bounds were in the same place. This means that all players should typically be expected to perform over their lower bounds.

When a player is at his lower bound you cant expect to get anything worthwhile in return. This is like selling low on a stock, and this is a bad idea. It would make more sense to sell high on a player if you expect a decline when he is near his upper bound.

With Turner only possibly going to improve and his value at a low, we shouldn't expect any reasonable offers.

Greg reply to Greg on Feb 9 at 14:13

Considering how high turners lower bound is, this makes him a really good player to have. Most players dont have such high lower bounds. If kobe struggled people would have set his lower bound low because of the jumo from hs. If ai struggled, people would have set his lower bound lower than turner because of his height. With Turner, however, we know he can rebound, play defense, not cause turnovers, with a strong potential for scoring under certain circumstances. Very few players have such a high lower bound except for all stars.

buke reply to Greg on Feb 9 at 15:17

Well, since you made the analogy to stocks, people buy stocks all the time at their lower bounds. Ideally, that's where investors prefer to buy them.

I think Turner is operating at close to his lower bound, but the notion that he has a significantly higher upper bound certainly isn't a consensus on this page. I think he has to be traded because this simply isn't a good situation for all of the parties involved.

The fact that he's in a slump now shouldn't significantly decrease his trade value. I think he's had enough time to show what is is capable of achieving (both highs and lows). He's a bit of a risky player because of his inconsistency and proclivity toward regular slumps, but not so risky. He only has one guaranteed year after this one, can do a lot of different things, and, as you say, has a reasonably high "floor" of capability. I don't think he is going to turn into the type of player who doesn't make an appearance in a significant number of games (unless he gets hurt, of course).

Greg reply to buke on Feb 9 at 16:23

Yeah, sounds good except I'm not really used to nba teams buying low. Seems like they all try to buy high. Best trade I could really see happening is getting another young player in a situation similar to turner. If that happens, a change of pace could benefit both players, but I dont have any specific player in mind.

Greg reply to Greg on Feb 9 at 17:00

What I meant to say is, I'm sure plenty of teams would be happy to buy low but they wouldnt offer much value. I'd be surprised if they do take a ticket on his high floor and offer a fair amount. Otherwise, buying low only benefits the buyer. When buying high, however, teams are often willing to overpay. That's always my expectation in the NBA, but you make a good point and I do agree a change of pace could benefit all sides.

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