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A Litmus Test in ATL

Thad has pretty good career numbers against Atlanta, including this year where he went for 18 points, 11 rebs, 4 assists and 5 steals in their only matchup. Josh Smith ain't got nothing on Mr. Young.

Also, I don't mind seeing Ivey play so many minutes, not because he's good but because it ensures Jrue won't have to play off the ball like he does when Pargo is in.

Would like to see Charles Jenkins get some run tonight and let's keep the Moultrie train on track with 25 minutes tonight.

You know what, you're right about Thad vs. ATL. He hasn't had problems w/ them in his career. I wasn't complaining about Ivey's minutes, I was just saying it's a sad state of affairs when Royal Ivey is playing a month's worth of minutes in one game. I'd prefer him to Pargo w/ Jrue, as well.

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Tuck reply to Brian on Mar 6 at 10:36
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Yea, I know you weren't complaining about Ivey. It's sad that he plays at all but that's the depressing reality that is this Sixers team.

Who do I root for? I root for Evan Turner. How many players in the NBA average at least 14 points, 4 assists, and 6 rebounds per game? 6. - Lebron, Durant, George, Pierce, Smith and Evan Turner.

With 13 games remaining in the season, I'm hoping that each game helps Turner improve those stats leading some GM out there to believe that Turner is a talent worth investing in.

I'm numb to Turner at this point. The only thing that pisses me off is when announcers say the Sixers are going to have a tough decision when he's a restricted free agent. If re-signing him is on the table, everyone should be fired.

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Tuck reply to Brian on Mar 6 at 10:40
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I wouldn't be surprised if they did resign Turner. It would suck but NBA teams are always scared to let top draft picks go, fearing that they might end up developing into something on another team.

I have to believe their evaluation period will be over on him by then. He'll be about to turn 26 when he's a restricted free agent.

If trade deadline rumors are to be believed, the evaluation period is already over on him

Not for everyone. I read the organization was split on whether to move him or not.

See to me - that's one of them litmus test things - if you were against moving him - for a bag of doritos - you should be fired

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Stan reply to GoSixers on Mar 6 at 12:37
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I just don't see the point in trading Turner for an expiring contract, unless he was included in a package with Hawes, Kwame and/or Richardson.

If you're talking about this summer, the only real reason to trade him for another expiring contract is to improve the team on the floor. The reason I'd be fully in favor of it is I could finally stop worrying that this cursed franchise will re-sign him after next year.

Ideally, Turner would be viewed as a team as a young guy they can fix, and an expiring contract if it doesn't work out. That's more value than an older scrub making too much money in the last year of his deal. That's a piece you can talk someone into as part of a deal for something big, maybe.

Because he has a contract that lasts PAST this season, for too much money (Cause he was the #2 pick) so it would clear cap space AND get him off the roster so there's no need to watch him play anymore or cater to his fragile ego or over play him to justify he was the #2 pick

The sad thing about last night is the team and Collins really did everything we always ask for. Extra burn for Moultrie. They shot a ton of threes, drove to the hole aggressively and didn't settle for long twos. They did all of that, against what's really not a good team, and they still lost. It's disheartening. With the exception of the Orlando game, I don't think they've played poorly since the Minnesota loss. And they've got one win to show for it. Bleh.

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Sharone Wright on Mar 6 at 10:51
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I was at the game last night, and there was no way I can advocate tanking when the Celts are in town.

Trash talking update: a moron Celtics fan was very vocal, and after I noticed he was wearing a Rondo jersey, he and I got into it. He came up with some brilliant, original thoughts like, "look at the score" (Boston was up by about 10 at that point). I asked him how his knee was, I chanted "ACL...ACL" and since it was relatively quiet in the arena, I yelled to his entire section, "someone buy this guy a new jersey!" to some nervous laughter by Sixers fans who may or may not have been concerned about an altercation.

Thank you, thank you...

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Court_visioN reply to Sharone Wright on Mar 6 at 13:11
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not sure a Sixers fan is in any position to mention the word "knee" anywhere.

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Sharone Wright reply to Court_visioN on Mar 6 at 15:28
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Might agree with you if I were wearing a #33 jersey.

Say what you want about Collins comments after the Orlando game but the stats show he was kind of right:

Percentage of mid-range jumpers up to the Orlando game:25.4%
Percentage of mid-range jumpers after the Orlando game:19.8%

Percentage of shots in the paint up to the Orlando game:41.5%
Percentage of shots in the paint after the Orlando game:46.5%

The effort is visibly improved and has resulted in better shot selection. They've outscored their opponents in the paint in 3 of the 4 games.

Of course the sample size is very small, but they've also played against 3 of the best defenses in the NBA in that stretch. You can assume it can get even better against worse defenses. Another reason: No Nick Young in the last 3 games and more minutes for Moultrie. Hey maybe the Sixers shot selection issues DO have to do with the player personnel and effort...

P.S. When was the last time the Sixers scored 64 points in the paint in a single non-OT game? It was such a relief to watch that despite the loss.

Barkley was probably playing.

Oh and i forgot i don't have the actual stats right now, but i tracked this early in the season and the Sixers RARELY outscore the opponents in the paint.

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Tuck reply to Xsago on Mar 6 at 13:26
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I wouldn't say they did it against 3 of the best defenses in the NBA. The Celtics and Wizards are top 10 defenses but the Warriors are pretty average.

And I don't think anyone will dispute that some of the issues with shot selection has to do in large part to their personnel but who's the guy who controls who plays and had a large part in signing so many of these players who take bad shots? I would like to see this go on for some more games before I believe that they turned a corner or that anything Doug said after the Orlando game impacted this team.

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Tray reply to Tuck on Mar 6 at 13:39
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I always thought, in fact, that it was Collins's offensive strategy to take a lot of mid-range jump shots.

I always thought the long-twos were a result of Collins' offensive strategy being never turn the ball over. If you won't take any risks, you're going to take a bunch of long twos.

Of course, when you fill a roster with bigs who like to shoot from the outside and wings who aren't driving threats, you're also limiting the options.

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Tray reply to Brian on Mar 6 at 14:37
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Well, it definitely isn't his offensive strategy to take a lot of threes; he seems to prefer "higher-percentage" 18-footers.

The Jaques Vaughn offensive philosophy!

I actually don't think he's opposed to threes, he just wants those open looks to come with very little risk, which is hard when you don't have a post threat. Drive and kick is the next best option, but driving and kicking leads to a higher turnover rate. You can get the long two without really taking any risks at all, especially when it's a pick-and-pop w/ your center.

Collins is not benching them when they take long twos you are right about that. But i don't think he actually emphasizes that shot as much as discussed around here. The fact that they are shooting so many jumpers is largely a byproduct of the personnel. And despite being a low turnover team again this year, i think the low turnovers are also in a way a byproduct of having only jump shooting big men. I mean Jrue Holiday is among the league leaders in turnovers this season and has not been benched once this year due to bad turnovers. Just inserting Moultrie makes a huge difference in terms of attacking the rim instead of settling for jumpers.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Mar 6 at 17:17
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Well, what about the fact that Thad, once a slightly below-average three-point shooter, has been instructed to never take threes (5 all year), but has taken 115 shots outside of 15 feet?

I think that's specific to Thad. For some reason, he got it in his mind that Thad couldn't shoot the three. Which is odd, because he shot league average early in his career. I think it was sort of a draconian method to get the simple point across that he wanted Thad working more around the hoop. Who knows? It does seem like he gets extremely pissed when someone turns down an open look at a three, especially Wright. He doesn't seem to get pissed at Jrue for the same violation, though. I sure do.

The third good defense is not the Warriors it's the Bulls. The Warriors were the only team in that stretch that doesn't play good defense.

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Rich reply to Xsago on Mar 6 at 19:06
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"Say what you want about Collins comments after the Orlando game but the stats show he was kind of right"

Did he say anything about their horrible shot selection in the presser? I don't quite recall. Even if he did, the main points he harped on were below average effort and professionalism. I've made my opinion clear on this, but I don't see how a better offensive philosophy makes him "right" when that wasn't the focus of his message.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Orlando game wasn't a stinker, but they've been praised for playing hard and still had terrible shot selection (last year, for example, when they were bottom of the barrel in expected field goal percentage). Obviously I wasn't impressed by the press conference, but I don't see a huge correlation here. The improved offensive approach is a very welcome sight, though.

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Rich reply to Xsago on Mar 6 at 19:25
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And also, while three of those teams are very good defensively, they aren't exactly the beacon of shot-selection, either. Golden State and Washington take the lowest percentage of shots at the rim in the league, and while Boston is 20th in that respect, they're also jumper-happy.

So is it really a huge surprise that the Sixers outscored those teams, especially GSW and WAS, in the paint? I'm not so sure. Especially when you consider Swaggy hasn't been playing and Moultrie has. Last night was great to watch, though.

You can definitely add Granger to my "Knee Problem Dream Team" link

PG: Rondo
SG: Gordon
SF: Granger
PF: Nerlens
C: Bynum/Oden

Zaza isnt playing, korver is but stevenson will start

thad jumper goes in

sissy tip in

1st quarter free throws for jrue!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:00
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That hot start sure evened out rather quick.

teague killing pargo

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:03
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All I'll say about that first quarter is thank goodness Thad is in the building cause if he wasn't....

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:04
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And so far, Jrue with an off-shot night. O-fer.

ugh turner on korver

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:06
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Damien 3??!!!!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:07
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D3!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:08
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Wilkins bailout fallaway J.

wilkins step back jumper!

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Big Will on Mar 6 at 20:08
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D3 short on the finger roll.

wright 3

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:09
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Crappy D and rim protection, not stopping the ball at all on the perimeter.

D3!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:12
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Charles Jenkins ..... Charles Jenkins!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:13
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Check this out:

Ivey, Charles Jenkins, ET, Damien Wilkins, Moultrie.

Heh

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:14
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Jrue and Hawes back now. For Moultrie and Ivey.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:15
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Damn Spencer what a BRICK man! Thump!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:15
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Jenkins J!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:22
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The 4 starters not named Thad have a combined 6 pts on a combined 2-17 shooting. Ouch.

jenkins!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:22
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Charles Jenkins J!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:23
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Jenkins playing the passing lanes, steal! And fouled.

good job moultrie

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:28
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Moultrie in the post with the lefty finish!

please post up moultrie more often, wright layup

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:28
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Jenkins steal! Dorell layup.

jrue rolled his ankle again, did it last night too

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:33
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Bad shot to end the quarter, Jrue.

Those bench guys gave a scoring boost but no one and I mean no one has any incentive to play any defense.

Jrue, Royal, Evan, Spencer - 6 pts on 1-18 shooting. Jrue and Royal are still 0-fer.

jenkins starting for ivey

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:48
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Charles Jenkins starting this half instead of Ivey.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:51
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Way to jog down the court Hawes after missing the slam.

nice pass spence to thad

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:52
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Jrue with the palming violation.

sissy jumper

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:57
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I'm dumbfounded at how this in now a 5 pt game with 4 of our starters combining for 12 pts.

Jrue gets his first bucket on a drive. 14 pts for the starters.

death by tolliver

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 20:59
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Anthony Tolliver and Jeff Teague are made to look like All Stars by the Sixers defense.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:02
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Spencer, you might want to use those limp ass wrists to sprint down court. Bum.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:03
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Annnnddd Hawes attempts to learn how to put up a tent in the lane. Get his ass out Doug NOW!.

Hawes foul, hits Josh Smith in the face on a reverse layup.

FINALLY HE takes his rightful place. Moultrie in.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:04
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3 pt gam is now back up to 14. 13-2 Hawks run.

I actually caught up on the DVR. Never happens. Lot of fast forwarding out of disgust.

moultrie jumper

2.1 on the shot clock. You think they get a stop here?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Mar 6 at 21:19
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It'll be the first one they've gotten all night if they do. Defense has been non-existent.

Jesus, Jrue. That's horrible.

yea hes been bad tonight

Jrue to Moultrie on the p&r.

Anyone have a clue as to why Collins didn't switch Jrue onto Teague earlier?

If Moultrie runs hard to the rim there I think he gets a dunk. They're all lethargic tonight.

Fuck. Three great looks on that trip. Tough to watch.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:29
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Excruciating.

why do they keep posting up wilkins

Ivey with a Willie Green line tonight. Only Green would've never expended enough energy to commit five fouls in 13 minutes.

It's a good thing there are only 20 or so games left in this season. Any longer, I think Doug would've stroked out on the bench.

Wilkins is on fire.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:32
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Damien!

p&r to Moultrie, gets it stripped.

They finally called a moving screen on Horford. He's been setting one every fucking play.

Lot of big games going on for the tankers tonight.

At least Jrue's been getting to the line. If he could only do that in games where he can actually hit a shot to save his life.

JRUE43!!!!!

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:40
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Wilkins has scored as much as 4 of our starters combined. Heh

PHI 96, ATL 107 final.

Well that was fun. I guess the Sixers suck is more powerful than their recent dominance over Atlanta.

Wilkins POTG.

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eddies' heady's on Mar 6 at 21:44
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Well it was nice only having to watch Spencer and Evan for 21 and 23 minutes respectively tonight.

And look! They won the 4th quarter. Progress.

Jrue +7 tonight. -18 in the 10 minutes he was on the bench. Last night he was +8, they were -16 in the 6 minutes he was on the bench. Even when he's shooting like shit, they're hopeless when he's on the bench.

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Geese reply to Brian on Mar 6 at 22:13
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They were wretched whether he was on the floor or on the bench. +/- & all of these analytic's are becoming way more important than people actually sitting down & making sure players fit together with other players. Last night's game that +/- crap had Moultrie listed as -whatever, pathetic. When Moultrie was in the game last night he not only gave us MUCH NEEDED inside presence but continues to show how shitty a coach Doug Collins is for waiting till it is clearly crap-tank time, to give him some run. I want Collins head on a platter & dumped in the Delaware, right alongside all this analytical crap.

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buke reply to Geese on Mar 6 at 22:32
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I try to be disagreeable but I can't find anything in your post to criticize. Uh...wait...I don't really want Collins' head floating in the Delaware, but, you know....if that's what it takes....

Moultrie's problem vs. BOS was that he was on the floor most of the time Jrue was off. When they were on together, it was a positive. And in both of these games, the other team went on monster runs in the brief stints when Jrue was on the bench. Last night, the game was lost in one of those runs at the beginning of the fourth. Tonight, it was the end of the third. When a guy plays nearly the entire game and the on/off is that dramatic, there's something to the numbers.

I think the point here is that without Jrue on the floor, the opposing team literally has nothing to worry about, on either side of the ball.

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Geese reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 15:23
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Moultrie had no problems against Boston. It is the +/- stat that tries to tell me he did. The real problem is justification for yet another useless analytical stat that attempts to take away the work of coaches, GM's, observant fans & anyone else who has already seen the game & then looks at the box score & sees some gimmicky quantification computation, as if this was a fantasy basketball/dungeons & dragons-type, stat booster.

And monster runs took place & take place whether Jrue was/is on the court or off of it. Like that Hawks game last night. The game honestly & actually ended, when the Sixers got out to that 8 - nothing lead at the start of the game & couldn't do anything with it. The game was over the moment the Hawks caught up to us & then took the lead. Everything else was a formality, because the reason why we got off to the 8 - nothing start was because the Hawks played like a team that just didn't have it last night & were ready to mail it in, as a loss. But once the Sixers couldn't even capitalize on that & then showed that they were just as ready to roll over as the Hawks were? The Hawks are playing for playoff positioning & that got them rolling. They have something to play for. And we do not. And it showed. The +/- column cares nothing about that, because it doesn't measure non-mathematical circumstances & situations.

Teams are no longer concerned about Jrue Holiday. Teams do not worry about Jrue Holiday & that shows too. No one sits up saying, damn, we gotta play Jrue Holiday & the Sixers. I do not like how some of our fanbase has become so desperate for some sort of something, that they want to talk as if Jrue Holiday is Allen Iverson-Light. He's not even close. Not even close. Lou Williams isn't even here & is injured & he can still draw fouls easier than Jrue & that worries me, as it should. And I mention Lou Williams because of the fact that what I just typed, IS A FACT. So now, Cranky Pants Doug Collins can't pull Jrue aside at some point & sit & go over 7 years of Lou Williams available footage & show Jrue that he can do JUST AS MUCH AS LOU COULD. But what he really needs to learn how to do now, especially with no Bynum coming at all, he has to attack the defense & get to the rim & force contact. I would suspect that with how many years of Iverson tape to show, he could show him that too. Where it's not about telling Jrue to be Lou or Allen, but he has to master getting contact & getting to the line AND MAKING THE REFS call fouls.

I'd suspect even Cranky Pants can do that. May have even done it. So then, why does Jrue still not get to the line? Why is he still playing games where he himself knows & sees he can drive around damn near anyone, but without warning he will just stop doing that & go to shooting jumpers, when putting people in foul trouble & getting to the free throw line has actually cost this team PLENTY OF GAMES. And it's cost us plenty of games, because the opponents get to the rim & get fouled & go to the line, while we keep shooting jumpers. At some point, a good player has some semblance of willful disobedience & understanding that, I don't care what coach said, we gotta get to the free throw line. I'ma keep driving on them till I either get knocked the fuck out, or they start making calls for me!

At some point, what I just typed, has to take place within your star players' mind & I don't see that with Jrue. And I don't get the impression that this coach is doing that either & worse, if he is? Then what does that mean or say about Jrue? +/- can't even hold that conversation because it isn't a number, it is a psychological aspect. Maybe Jrue is sick of Collins sending him text at 2am, like he brought up last year during one of the games in the playoffs.

When our team was winning & competitive, teams used to hard-trap Holiday & usually get him to turn the ball over. But we haven't seen that in literal months & part of the reason for that is because most opposing coaches & players have figured out that they can let Jrue Holiday do whatever he wants. As long as he doesn't consistently drive to the rim, who cares how many points or assists he gets. The overemphasis of Jrue Holiday is crushing Jrue & we are seeing it now night, after night, after night.

I really hate it when nonsense like this rambles on for so long. If you're going to rant, at least have the courtesy to break it up into a series of comments.

I agree, Jrue needs to get to the line more. I disagree that teams aren't focusing their defense on him. He gets doubled in one of two ways every time they run a pick-and-roll (aggressive trap out past the three point line, or the big stands at the elbow, essentially blocking the lane). They pay zero attention to the roller. This opens up the roll, but Moultrie and occasionally Thad are the only bigs who will roll.

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Geese reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 15:58
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Then don't run a blog, Brian. You're just as much of a whiny bitch as Evan Turner.

That was concise. Thank you.

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Geese reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 16:14
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I don't want you to hurt yourself, so you're welcome.

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Geese reply to Geese on Mar 7 at 19:43
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They are running right now on NBA TV an expose talking about Analytics & right now, Steve Smith laughin his ass off at how Tyson Chandler was just shown in another stupid ass analytical crapfest where his true shooting percentage has Tyson Chandler at the top. Where all Steve Smith kept saying was "He dunks."

Huh?

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Geese reply to GoSixers on Mar 7 at 20:15
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Brian & I were talking about analytics & while I was watching NBA TV earlier, they showed an Analytics Convention 15 minutes ago & they were doing all their number crunching & tossing out how analytics determine things that simply watching the game & looking at a normal box score will tell you the same thing.

So they went back to the NBA TV studio to "show" how analytics can prove a persons True Shooting percentage. They showed the top five True Shooting Percentage players in the league right now & #1 was Tyson Chandler. So Steve Smith starts chuckling, because he's making it clear that it's a joke that Tyson Chandler is supposedly the best true shooter, when all Tyson Chandler does is dunk. So Steve Smith kept saying "He dunks."

Magic up 3 on the Heat late.

Hornets killing the Lakers.

Twolves vs. Wiz. One of them has to win.

Cavs won.

Raps vs. Suns. Someone has to win.

So it looks like Chad Ford has us targeting Zeller. Who has watched him play?

ugh, havent seen all his games but the ones i saw i wasnt very impressed

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buke reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 10:23
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I have watched a few Indiana games. Based on the trouble he had on both ends of the court with Minnesota's Mbakwe and the fact that the backup center Eliason was fairly effective in defending him, I would pass.

I would prefer Indiana's Oladipo (a very willing and athletic defender) over Zeller, but I would probably prefer someone else over either of them.

Is Oladipo going to be an offensive handicap? Something like a Thabo or a Tony Allen?

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Tuck reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 12:01
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I think Oladipo's offensive potential is better than those two but I think both are good comparisons.

I really like Oladipo and think he would be a nice complement to Jrue, especially if he continues to improve his jumper.

The Sixers badly need an athletic wing who can defend and keep teams honest with his jumper (sound familiar).

I agree that Oladipo has better offensive potential than Allen and Thabo but that doesn't mean he will achieve it. I guess he will be a very good defender in the pros and he will go as far as his jumper will take him. I disagree though that he has a jumper at this point. His made some threes this season, but the sample size is extremely low and i think he will struggle mightily with the NBA 3 pointer. I think there will be better prospects at the position where Oladipo will get drafted IMO.

I'd love for them to get someone who can get to the free throw line with some regularity. Might be too much to ask, though.

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KH reply to Xsago on Mar 7 at 12:45
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I totally disagree about Oladipo. His shot is a work in progress but he is a hard worker that has already improved noticeably in the shooting deparment. Is he a good jumpshooter by NBA standards yet hardly. I think he is a better shooter then Igoudala was at this age though. Hardorker plus elite athelectic gifts makes this guy a no brainer in he is there when the Sixers pick. They need a 2/3 that can defend and who possesses elite level athlectic ability. Sadly I don't think Oladipo will be there when the Sixers pick unless we can get into the top 5-7. He'll do nothing but rise when its combine time and when the work outs start he'll crush people in the workouts due to his motor and athlectic ability. There is a reason why this kid is very close to the front runner for college player of the year by a lot of people in the know.

Player of the Year, especially for a junior, doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

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Stan reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 13:11
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Would you be satisfied if he was as good as Avery Bradley?

Bradley's in the same conversation with Allen and Thabo. I like Bradley, but if you use a high lottery pick to get a guy like that, you're going to be paying him too much money and you picked the wrong year to get a high lottery pick, again.

Wish the Sixers would've just bought a pick in that draft and taken Bradley. It was obvious he was going to be a really good perimeter defender.

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Stan reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 15:22
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He is projected to get drafted in the 5-9 range which pays at most about $3.5 million/year. I don't think that's a lot to pay if he can contribute on the same level as Tony Allen or Avery Bradley. It won't handicap the Sixers from any potential signings. It's certainly better than paying a 7 footer and keep him on the bench.

I don't think you can compare Oladipo to Iguodala at all.

1. Oladipo is a junior, Iguodala got drafted as a sophomore.

2. At the same age Iguodala was a better shooter in college than Oladipo, while taking more shots. Sample size matters and Oladipo has taken very few threes to label him a good shooter. And he even needs to adjust to the longer three point line in the NBA. Turner was one of the best three point shooters in the league based on percentage earlier on the year. He is not really a good shooter though is he?

3. Iguodala was a much much better passer than Oladipo in college.

4. Iguodala was a better rebounder than Oladipo in college.

5. Iguodala was a better ball handler than Oldaipo. Oladipo doesn't really have a handle at this point.

Really apart from defense, there is not a single area where Oladipo can match Iguodala's college version.

Don't get me wrong Oladipo will have a nice NBA career. He will be a role player though. I wouldn't get extremely excited about college players who suddenly realized how to be effective in their third year when they are playing younger players. Oladipo was a complete non factor in his first two years in college. He's got the potential to be better than Allen/Sefolosha/Bradley but it's very unlikely he will actually be much better than them. He is ok as a 12th-18th pick, but there are at least 7-8 prospects who are better than him even in a draft like this.

Getting a wing defender out of the draft, a guy who can step in an contribute something meaningful right away, wouldn't be a bad thing. It's something they desperately need. But getting that type of player isn't going to suddenly make them a good team. Don't think anyone in this draft is going to suddenly make them a good team.

I agree but there are at least a few that might be able to become top 50 players in the NBA. The Sixers are from the point where they should draft for need. Right now they should simply draft the player left on the board that has the highest star potential. I doubt Oladipo will be the one. There are no superstars in the draft, but even in weak drafts there are 2-3 allstars that emerge. The player doesn't need to fit at all. At worst he will be a very good asset.

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Tuck reply to Xsago on Mar 7 at 16:14
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You're right about small sample size on Oladipo's jumper but his form has improved considerably over his 3 years at Indiana. He has good lift and follow through and has shown the ability this year to catch and shoot and shoot off the dribble.

A jump shot is something all players can improve upon once they hit the NBA level as long as the have a solid foundation to start from. Evan Turner is a great example of a guy who had a terrible foundation and needed to completely rework his jumper especially his hand placement on the ball. Oladipo has good form already so now it's more about making small adjustments (NBA shooting coaches can help with that) and getting lots of repetition.

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buke reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 13:59
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I would agree with Tuck's assessment. Oladipo's offense would appear to lag his defense at this point but he does seem to be able to score in streaks. He has very good quickness and athletic ability.

Improvement at the college level over three years isn't nearly as encouraging as it used to be. "He keeps getting older, they stay the same age."

So various interesting reports out today:

1. Both teams confirming Smith for Turner+Hawes was very close before the deadline. The talks have originated last season actually.

2. The Heat "feverishly" pursued Vucevic when he was in Philly. Names being mentioned as part of the package: Chalmers and Cole.

Maybe this part of the draft day trade for Moultrie?

Ugh, why didn't they just pull the trigger on the Smith trade? What the fuck?

So presumably the deal would've been Voose/future pick for Chalmers/Moultrie?

Cole is garbage, but Chalmers would fit.

Is that Mitchell story really like two paragraphs long?

Yes - but it also has a poll so that makes it ok

The Sixers probably said no to the deal. Have to protect core players like Turner and Hawes. Jesus.

The Hawks may have been holding out for something better - I mean they'd have to think 'Josh Smith is worth more than this right'?

Or Smith's agent told the sixers 'no way in hell is he signing with you for less than x per year', and the sixers didn't realize the salary savings of dumping turner and hawes a year early would TOTALLY be worth it.

Heh. First time I've seen it. At least the Sixers have never done that. That's right up there w/ offensive goaltending on a three-point shot with your team down by three at the buzzer. I still miss Dalembert.

Doug Collins, who was never booed by his mother, is 99-109 as Sixers commander, yet local writers and talking heads cede to his meandering menu of meanings like he's Red Auerbach's offspring - - a neverending honeymoon. Can't one intrepid reporter at least mention Aleksandr Belov's game winner when Doug is full as a tick?

Jrue's shot looks like he's been punching a brick wall. 13 for last 48. Some say he's a special player. John Wall, Avery Bradley and Jeff Teague haven't heard the news, among a parade of other guards on the 60 gm, 23 win trail.

Sixers scouting, historical perspective: Other cities got Lenny, Dominique and Gerald. Philadelphia got Eddie Lee and Damien.

Sixers scouting, modern perspective: Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner have proven to be volatile personalities, showing the maturity of teenagers at times on the court. And they don't play basketball very well to boot.

When Adam Aron dutifully explained the tragic onset of Bynum Influenza on the community, it occured to me that he bears a slight resemblance to the late Buddy Hackett, another comedian.

On tap: 'Superheroes' Friday, 'Magic Tricks' Sunday.

One of the big problems with drafting really high in a bad draft is that you might get a useful role player with a high pick, but the fact that he's a high pick (and the contract that goes with it) means you probably can't use him in the role he's most suited for. Turner would be much more palatable if he'd been nothing more than a wing off the bench getting spot minutes backing up the 1,2,3 for a couple of years, but you can't do that with the #2 pick. Instead, you thrust him into a role his salary and pedigree dictate and you've got a guy who's hopelessly overmatched.

The sad thing is the Sixers (or really just Collins) resisted the urge to shove the guy into the starting lineup, until his hand was forced. Didn't stop people from wanting to run him out of town for playing the scrub off the bench for two years, though.

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Tray reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 14:48
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I think we can get away doing whatever we want with the 6th pick though.

I wonder if Turner has lowered the bar for future draft picks.

Shawn Bradley
Tim Thomas
Evan Turner.

Three #2 picks in 20 years, and that's what they got out of them.

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Stan reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 15:26
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I wish Turner had forced the Sixers to trade him on draft day.

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Geese reply to Stan on Mar 7 at 15:28
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Turner will be gone soon enough. He doesn't fit here & he's become a basket case. It would be really stupid to keep him once his contract ends.

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Stan reply to Geese on Mar 7 at 15:35
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But if he had forced a trade on draft day we might have been able to trade down for Paul George, Greg Monroe, Ed Davis, Larry Sanders, Eric Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, or Kévin Seraphin. They could have even stayed at #2 and drafted Derrick Favors.

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Geese reply to Stan on Mar 7 at 15:53
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All of this is true, but none of it happened, unfortunately. And to my knowledge, no one within the organization has stated WHY they took Turner over everyone you mentioned. I could sit here & speculate but in this instance, I won't. Only the people involved know why they took Turner over Favors. From my own limited knowledge of Favors & the relative timidity of this organization, at that time, they weren't gonna gamble on Favors going off the reservation. That's my guess regarding him. Because when I look at how the team is constructed now, it is essentially a physically weak team that doesn't handle pressure well in clutch situations. Never mind that Collins is already a potential psychological meltdown waiting to happen to, so? I think those things played a part in the non-selection of Favors.

We don't actually have a dominant personality on the team & ironically, the closest to that is Turner himself. That is why I said he doesn't fit, the team is centered around Jrue & Turner is a volume shooter with a busted jumpshot. To me, & I said I wasn't gonna guess & here I am guessing. But when they drafted Turner they probably saw how he was a scorer. But didn't really care about HOW HE SCORES. Which of course always leads to disaster.

It is the same type of reason why Shawn Bradley was drafted, because things weren't properly thought out. Everyone was too busy remembering Brad Daugherty, instead of focusing on the here & now of that time, during that draft. So they picked Bradley & the rest is history. This franchise has a lot of nightmares of future's past & we've seen as a fanbase, a lot of decisions made where they were based more out of fear of previous mistakes, instead of what was actually needed at that time & how that person fit with what is already here.

I think when Turner was drafted they may have intended to ultimately build the team around him & then changed their mind at some point. That's my best guess, because to believe that they drafted him without understanding that everything was around & all about him in his college days, is just naive & stupid drafting, unfortunately. They could have gotten those other players, but they decided on this one & to me, they didn't really think about how he was going to fit with what they already had. I also don't believe Collins was hired yet, was he? What I do know is that those two don't get along & it is obvious. I was never fooled by this year, although it was a nice try I guess, on their parts.

I think that Turner will play out his last year & either move on or be moved, next year. But I don't see him going past next year unless someone pulls a Doug Collins/Spencer Hawes move. Which would be really stupid at this point.

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Stan reply to Geese on Mar 7 at 16:04
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Turner was considered a "safe" pick. A player with high basketball IQ that would average 20/5/6. Brandon Roy had success in the NBA despite his lack of athleticism.

From what I read it was supposed to be a 2 player draft. Even Kobe thought Turner was the best player in the country-
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer031910

First off - Kobe's opinion on a player coming out of college carries as much weight as Brian's kids in my mind - no offense to Brian's kids - but players and talent evaluation hardly ever go together well.

Demarcus cousins had them most pure potential in the draft - if he had half his head on right he would have been far and away the #1 pick and the sixers would have John Wall right now - and brian would still be depressed about it

I'd rather have Wall and Jrue than Turner and Jrue. I'd rather put my head in the oven than have to watch either combo, but if picking between the two, I'd go Wall/Jrue

And how would you feel about Jrue and Cousins?

Probably Wall, Cousins, Turner. The first two at least have trade value.

I should say the first two are overrated by more people.

I think Wall is the most over rated of all of them as it seems people see no flaws in his game - still don't thik cousins is a lost cause and would be the preference to me if the draft were redone - I get you love Favors though :)

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 17:08
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I think Turner has more value than Wall around the league. Just a guess. Cousins has more value than either. He has as much skill as Bynum and is no goofier.

I think you probably got that completely backwards actually - Cousins isn't 'goofy' cousins is a head case - he has raw talent yes - but so far in 3 years has shown no change in his immaturity, approach to the game, or anything else that made his red flags drop him in the draft.

If i recall, many a writer called him the best raw talent in the draft, most upside, but most likely to crash and burn as well.

I don't think Turner goes top 3 in the draft if it's redone today

I found two less than reliable web sites that 'redid' the 2010 draft in Jan 2011, both had the sixers picking cousins, both had turner going 7

I don't know how that would play out today - but I don't think he'd be top 3

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Mar 7 at 17:24
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Goofy and headcase mean pretty much the same to me. Bynum is a headcase. (Shooting at his next door neighbors' house, vowing to come back this season a week before failing to show for a presser, nullifying his market value by announcing that he doesn't want to play in pain). I pretty much agree, but wouldn't Wall be picked around #7 too? Favors, Monroe, Cousins, George, Turner, maybe even Sanders would be picked ahead of him. But that's just me. Hell, I'd take Bledsoe over Wall.

Turner wouldn't be picked before Wall. No way.

Head problems aside, Cousins has nowhere near the skill Bynum does/did. In Bynum's case, if he was actually on the floor, the goofy off-court behavior wouldn't matter in the least. He's the type of guy who can elevate a team. Cousins hasn't been anything close to that, he's actually been the opposite.

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 17:52
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I guess you're right. It's just that Turner has been more productive than Wall, and in my opinion Wall is just not very good. (I know, ET is worse than that, in your opinion.) As for Bynum, I only meant that his goofiness keeps him off the floor. He'd be playing right now if he were a serious athlete. (Sabonis and Walton played through similar injuries.) Both Wall and Bynum have some of that Dwight Howard above-it-all, my-life-is-awesome-no-matter-how-I-play attitude that I can't stand. ET strikes me as more serious, though he can certainly be accused of being goofy.

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Charlie H reply to Stan on Mar 7 at 17:04
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Right. The top 3 or 4 picks are almost always consensus. Every team would have taken Bradley and Darko 2nd in my opinion. There have been very few high picks where the team thought outside the box: Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Damien Lillard.

Just looked at the 2006 draft. Rondo was picked 21st and turned out better than every pick before him. Adam Morrison went 3rd. That's how I envision this year's draft if the Sixers move up to the 3rd pick. (And somebody like Kobe will be picked 4th.)

The future looks bleak. I guess the Sixers could sign Dwight Howard, but I don't even want him. Can't see myself cheering for such an unserious player. At least Turner's serious, and he never preens or pounds his chest. I'm hoping for J.J. Redick. And for Turner to prove Brian wrong. (I can dream can't I?)

Worrying about him going off the reservation sounds more like a concern w/ Cousins than Favors.

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Geese reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 16:34
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And that is correct & a mistake on my part, because I was thinking about Demarcus Cousins & not Derrick Favors. Thank you for the useful correction.

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 16:30
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The number of mediocre to awful #2 picks is really staggering. Stromile Swift, Steve Stipanovich, Wayman Tisdale, Danny Ferry, Darko, Kenny Anderson, Jay Williams, Marvin Williams, Steve Francis, Okafor....

My feeling is that Turner is a player that a lot of teams like. It's just the feeling I get because I don't hear/read a lot of negatives other than what I see every day here. I can't agree that the Sixers should dump him and sign Bynum - the opposite seems a lot safer. I've gone from being in favor of signing Bynum to the max to not wanting to hear his name again in about a 2 weeks. Consider these 2 quotes (paraphrasing):

"I don't think I'll ever be pain free."

"I don't want to play in pain."

He just wants to take his money and go off and join the circus. He's cultivating a clown look, as you may have noticed.

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Stan reply to Charlie H on Mar 7 at 21:31
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I would have drafted Thomas Robinson with the #2 overall pick. Michael Jordan actually made the right pick.

"Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense"

https://twitter.com/CourtneyLee2211/statuses/309150812725207040

Now, why didn't this guy buy the sixers?

Yeah, that's the guy who shortchanged the future of his franchise.

Yeah, I'm ok with it as it's in the confine of the CBA - he's going to be a Super 2 and get a CRAPLOAD in arbitration.

he followed the rules and he's getting crap for it - whatever - hell - i'd talk hal steinbrenner over adam aron right now - and hal is an idiot

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Mar 7 at 17:14
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Beer was $8 a cup at the Big A in 2003?

That just seems like a brilliant move to me. The Angels are still making a killing on beer at $4.50 and they probably sell 3 times as much as they would at $8.

I wonder if the FO still has Pat Croce's number.

If the FO still has Croce's number - I hope they lose it unless they need a new head cheerleader.

I read once a 'rationalization' for why beer and food cost so much at sporting events - didn't buy it then )

It costs so much because it can. Like gas on a toll road.

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Tray reply to Brian on Mar 7 at 17:29
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The thing about arenas is that, like movie theaters, they own the concessioners. Which is different from, say, malls or airports, places where a customer's also trapped but where there's some sort of competition.

That's not always true. Outside companies do concessions in most arenas, I believe. The Yanks/Cowboys created/bought a company to handle theirs, but I believe that's not the norm. They still make a ton of money on concessions, everyone does. Those companies have outrageous cashflow to the point where they've created securities based on their cashflow.

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Charlie H reply to Tray on Mar 7 at 17:43
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In Philly, and many other places, doesn't Aramark own the concessions? Or is it just the vendor that runs them and gets paid a fee? Either way, the team makes a lot on them.

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Tray reply to Charlie H on Mar 7 at 17:47
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Yeah, I didn't really know what I was talking about. I guess the actual distinction is a contract with a single vendor vs. leases to multiple vendors.

I know there's also a company called 'sysco' that is involved in concessions too which always used to confuse me because I only knew of the other cisco's.

I think the 'two layers' is why the concessions cost so much - the companies pay the stadiums (or teams) to sell at their locations and pass that cost onto the customers. Brian is right that you are a captive customer but I think if they really started charging truly outrageous prices (double the cost of everything) they'd be in for some sort of legal issues.

Hell - that's why i used to wear a back pack into the movies so i could bring my own stuff

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Mar 7 at 18:05
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When I was there (last time was '06 I think) it was Aramark. Sysco supplies food to a lot of these places, I don't think they run the concessions, but they might. It's a major source of income, and I blame fans for the high prices. They express amazement at the price of a hot dog but feel obligated to buy them because it's part of the "experience". Does anybody eat those gooey pseudo-nachos except at sporting events?

We always take popcorn into movies. The most overpriced food item on earth. Almost no labor involved - it comes pre-popped in gigantic bags, is put into containers under lights then squirted with "real" butter before being handed to the customer. $7.50 please.

I haven't been back to the east coast since November 2001, so i was just going on gneralizations :)

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Mar 7 at 17:28
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That's what I meant. He'd be an improvement over Aron. ;-)

Oh my bad - sorry for the over reaction

The tanking/well-timed season-ending injuries begin; Gortat is done for the year, and Scott's considering shutting Irving down.

It's sad when i think the cavaliers are better run than the sixers

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Mar 8 at 9:34
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Now a source tells ESPN that Scott was just confused and Irving will keep playing.

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tk76 reply to Tray on Mar 7 at 21:01
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Jrue is getting worn down by his own admission. Time to lightne up his minutes and give him some nights off. Don't want him getting hurt or hurting our chances...

Honestly, he has not looked the same for a while. Earlier this year he looked both strong and quick. Now he no longer looks physically strong where he is bullying his way past smaller guards.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Mar 7 at 21:37
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conspiracy theory: That's why they didn't trade for Josh Smith and then traded for Jenkins. The Sixers knew that Bynum wouldn't play this season, Josh Smith would put them in a position to contend for the playoffs, and they needed to another PG once they "rested" Jrue. They decided to tank before the ASG because they knew ahead of time that Bynum wouldn't play.

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Tray reply to Stan on Mar 8 at 9:35
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If you were really going to tank, wouldn't you just play Ivey and Turner at the point? Jenkins is okay.

Last night after McGee blocked a shot and then failed to save it out of bounds, he celebrated by pretending to autograph the ball. Watch Andre Miller's reaction:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2287769/javalesigns.gif

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Matt reply to Tray on Mar 8 at 12:32
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In fairness, I don't think he could have saved it or, necessarily, blocked it inbounds. I like that he's a bit of a clown.

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Tray reply to Matt on Mar 8 at 15:52
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I really enjoyed this myself, I just didn't get why he was running the ball down. I guess to autograph it.

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TwoSense on Mar 8 at 19:45
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Two words that I say to myself often, that bring about thoughts of a hopeless romantic - Andrew Bynum.


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