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Heading Back to Brooklyn

I'm toying with the idea of making the trek from the West Village and heading to Barclays, myself. But...why? The Sixers might be the most boring team in the league. I'm not sure I want to drop $80-$100 just to fall asleep in my seat by the half. I was there a few months back for Nets-Nugs and it was a blast, though. Great place to catch a game.

If the Sixers aren't reason enough, I'm looking forward to the freak show. At least, I hope the Nets still have their freak show in between quarters. They used to have wolves, baby wolves, dwarves, giants, women on stilts. It was like a Hieronymus Bosch painting. I hope they didn't do away w/ that.

Barclays Center architecture: I.M. Pei meets Salvador Dali. Saw it at the Flushing Meadows, NY World's Fair in '64 ... the things you can recycle! "It's a small world after all."

Yeah, the original plan was much more elaborate.

Thanks, Brian - interesting read. Too bad Gehry's '06 mould-breaking design was tossed.

You know, that really does remind me of Dali now that you mention it. Sort of looks like it's melting in the middle. You truly are a renaissance man.

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 11:25

I'm more reminded of Jean Arp.

It's actually not all that impressive - me and some dude at the TGIFriday's on Union Square agreed that it doesn't really "pop." And yea, I stopped into the Friday's. Don't judge me. Brother Jimmy's was packed.


I wish I had more time tonight. I still work on the UES, the East River is just a big impediment when I have to cross the other way to get home. Could go for a good meal.

Dang man I wish I had more time too. gotta be in Queens then Williamsburg after work. Hopefully I get back in time to see Moultrie BEASTIN'

ford has the sixers taking zeller in his new mock(accounts for team needs)

Yeah, that wouldn't shock me. Draft doesn't hold a ton of interest. I'll be happy if they get a guy who projects to be a halfway decent starter, or a legit rotational guy w/ a marketable skill.

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 13:47

speaking of which...has Vucevic exceeded your expectations? Kenneth Faried would have been the better pick, but Vucevic wasn't a bad selection for #11

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 13:50

I see very little in our drafting history, with the one exception of Vucevic, that would indicate we'd ever draft a player like Zeller. Even Vucevic is a poor comparison; while he was way less agile than Zeller is, he had way better physical tools for the position, i.e. measurements and strength, and we obviously cared more about those things than his lane agility number. Our drafting history shows we value (1) younger prospects (Turner's an exception, but he was the consensus #2 pick in the draft), (2) athleticism, even at the cost of taking someone whose college stats or play disappointed relative to expectations coming out of high school, (3) at center, legit size (Vuce) or rare athleticism (Dalembert). We're extremely consistent in this; it's been the case of just about every draft pick since DiLeo has controlled drafting. Iguodala, Lou, Carney, Jason Smith, Thad, Speights, Jrue, Harkless, and Moultrie all fit this mold. Turner's the one exception, and it happened because we drafted so high that we were forced to depart from our usual tendencies and take the player that everyone believed was the second best in the draft. Had we picked 12th, I'm pretty sure we would've gone with Ed Davis or Larry Sanders. There's just no way that the Sixers will pick a guy who the majority of GM's think is too weak to be an effective center. Whatever Collins's weird taste for players like Hawes, when it comes to the people who do the drafting, we're one of the least likely teams in the league to take a skilled player who lacks the physical tools to play his position. I could see them taking Len, Plumlee, Austin, Dieng, Goodwin, or Glenn Robinson's son before I could see them picking Zeller. If they had a choice between the Kansas center and Zeller, they'd take the Kansas center.

Not sure how Jason Smith fits into this thesis of yours. His measurements were pretty bad.

Personally, I think they take Zeller because they're afraid someone will outbid them for Hawes when this contract expires and they need someone to fill his shoes.

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 14:58

Smith was an athletic 4. So said the scouts at the time, anyway; I checked draftexpress. They were super-enthused.

Even if we're hunting for a Hawes replacement, I can't imagine why Zeller would be the guy. What's funny about you is you always have this hyper-optimistic outlook on player development (Jrue will be a top 5 PG, Brand would return to pre-injury form, Thad had virtually no ceiling, Iguodala was going to develop an offensive game beyond that of a 3rd to 4th option) and team performance (with Bynum/with countless other pieces, we could contend), but you're unwarrantedly pessimistic about the moves the front office will make, to the point where you even doubt our drafting, a huge team strength. I on the other hand think that the Sixers will continue to draft decent players in the middle of the first round for the foreseeable future, that those players will always be alright but will never develop into superstars (specifically, I see only 1 to 2 more All-Star appearances in Jrue's future), that the steady influx of middling talent will always stop us from bottoming out, and that the cycle of .500 ball will continue forever unless lightning strikes (possibly in the form of Bynum coming back and being really great, or in the form of some Harden-like trade) or until they blow everything up. I think ownership probably sees blowing everything up as a high-risk move, with huge potential downside in attendance, and that they want the Sixers to always at least have a shot at the playoffs. I think that's wrong, even from a purely financial perspective, but it's a reasonable view; it is possible in the NBA to be really bad for a really long time. But it seems to be pretty difficult if Michael Jordan or someone of that ilk doesn't run your team.

Eh. Like I said recently, you probably shouldn't put too much stock into my draft analysis. I think Jrue is the only pick I've really been excited about since Iguodala. My general feeling about this particular draft class is there's nothing much to be optimistic about.

As for your jabs at me, Jrue's 22, there's still time. You were more enamored with Thad's upside than I ever was, and Iguodala did develop his offensive game beyond being the third or fourth option on a really good team, then his offensive game regressed. So there.

I do have a question, though. Shouldn't the pro-tanking contingent be praying the Sixers sign Bynum? I mean, best-case, Bynum comes back and gives you more than any rookie will over the next 3-5 years. Worst case, you sign him, he never plays, the team sucks and doesn't have the flexibility to make a move that would raise them to playoff-level and they get to tank for 3-5 years. Seems like a win-win, no?

Jesse reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 16:23

I think the pro-tanking contingent wants a crappy team and cap space.

They really shouldn't be enamored with cap space. If you have a crappy team with cap space, the front office is going to be under pressure to use the cap space to improve the team, which makes it harder to tank. The ideal is a "heady" front office that treasures sucking ass and sitting on cap space, using it wisely to acquire more draft picks, etc. But stockpiling draft picks in the NBA doesn't accomplish anything unless they're unprotected first-rounders that eventually turn into a high lottery pick (or you can sucker the Clips into trading you the #1 pick).

If you're going to be realistic and hope for your team to tank, it's more logical to sign a guy like Bynum and let the team wallow if/when he misses significant time. Basically, the front office needs to have its hands tied in order to properly tank.

I'm neither pro or anti tanking but unless Bynum agrees to a VERY team friendly deal - he can go suck it

I need to see what the market says about him. I really don't want the Sixers to come into this situation the way they came into the Andre Miller and Lou Williams situations, where they low ball their own free agent, he says no, the guy moves on and then signs a reasonable deal elsewhere. I don't think I'd be the first to make an offer. Maybe have a conversation with him, say we'd love to have you back, see what the market says and give us a chance to top your best offer. I do think he owes them that much. I mean, right of first refusal isn't exactly much to ask in this situation. Then if a team offers him 3 years/$45M you maybe add some extra money or a fourth year with a vesting option or something.

So what you're saying is you miss Lou Williams?

Sometimes. But mostly it just annoys me that other teams get bargains because the Sixers have no patience in negotiating with their own free agents. Like they feel the need to make a take it or leave it offer on the first day of free agency, then the guys sign elsewhere for less money because they were dicks about it. Of course, there are also situations where they jump the gun with silly offers bidding against themselves and the guys take them up on the offers (Hawes/Kwame/Lavoy come to mind).

Which is worse - the billy king method of negotiating against yourself an over paying or setting what you think is market value for a player and letting someone else play more. Maybe the sixers didn't think Lou was worth as much as the hawks gave him?

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 17:42

I was watching a Mavericks game the other day and I remembered that Dirk Nowitzki was 35 years old. The Mavericks let Tyson Chandler walk and gambled on trying to get either Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in free agency. There were talks last year about how they were going to manage to get both of them on the roster. They gambled and lost. Now they have a 35 year old fading superstar and limited window to win another championship. They certainly seem like the team desperate enough to go out and get Bynum to a max deal. You have a teams like Atlanta, Portland and Houston that have good rosters and are only a player away from challenging for a championship. You also have teams like Charlotte and Detroit that want to generate some buzz and legitimacy for their teams.

I think the best that the Sixers can get away with offering him is a 4-year deal worth the max that a team can sign him away for with incentives to reach the 5 year/$100 million he is looking for.

The same argument you mentioned before is the same reason why I think the Sixers should re-sign Bynum. Other than Lebron/Bosh signing, I can't think of a single "superstar" that was signed away in free agency in the past 10 years.

I think the pro-tanking team doesn't fully understand the new CBA rules. You can't both tank AND have cap space. If i'm not mistaken next year each team will be forced to use cap space equal to 90% of where the salary cap lands. In other words if the Sixers let Bynum and the other free agents go and sign their three rookies, they will have around 13-14 million left in cap space. And they will in a way be forced to spend half of it (6-7 million). This is a rough estimation, but i would rather sign Bynum than another mediocre player just to reach the minimum payroll. I think they will have up to the February trade deadline to actually figure out a way to use 90% of the cap in payroll but with so many teams having cap space i guess there will be more than few that will be left with nothing.

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 16:44

I fear the middle case where Bynum turns into okay post-injury Bynum. This could happen a few ways; he's a lot worse but stays on the court, he's good when he plays but can only play half the year, etc. And I think the middle case is the most likely. He will play some but there's no way he's going to be both great and consistently healthy. If he never played, of course, they'd work out some kind of buy out or retirement or however that's handled, and the tanking wouldn't work anyway because we still have Jrue and Thad and Doug will continue to demand that we have a few passable role players. Probably next time he picks better ones than Nick Young, it would be hard not to. Even with 0 games of Bynum this year, we're barely in the lottery. To tank they need a coach who doesn't coach defense, or a Thad for picks deal, or Jrue for same.

He wouldn't retire, and he probably wouldn't take a buyout, either. There's no benefit in either scenario for him. They could use the stretch provision and cut him, which would mean he'd be on the books for twice as long at half the price. Then they'd have to find another way to waste that cap space.

What would your desired path forward be? Do you think they should trade Jrue and/or Thad this summer so they can be truly bad and have nothing to rebuild with?

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 9 at 17:09

Probably not. Under the new CBA, it seems likely that more players like Harden will be dealt in the future. And Thad's the sort of piece that would work in that kind of deal. So I think we at least keep Thad, keep doing a good job in the draft and hope something of that kind materializes, or that we get really lucky and draft an excellent 2-way player who isn't quite a superstar in the area where we draft, like a Paul George. I could see selling high on Jrue. I definitely think that he can play the position very well and that with a reduced scoring load he could recommit to being a top defender at his position, but I have very little enthusiasm for his personal scoring contributions. I'd like to be able to keep him and pair him with the star I hope we eventually land via trade, but his continued presence does probably prevent us from ever being bad enough to draft a franchise player.

I kind of like Michigan's Mitch McGary as a dark horse pick if he declares. He fits all the criteria the Sixers seem to use: legit size 6'10, 250lbs, 7-0 wingspan, good motor, good athlete,was a very highly rated player in high school like top 10 in the nation good. Struggled a bit at the start at Michigan but was probably there best player in the last six games of the year or so. Right now I see him ranked in the low 20's at NBA draft.net. Draft Xpress has him as the number 9 pick in the 2014 draft. Chad Ford has him as the number 12 pick this year. Regardless I like him more then Zeller who seems weak and its not very long at all.

Only saw a little bit of Michigan vs. Syracuse. Heard people raving about him recently. Bad free throw shooter, right?

Tray reply to KH on Apr 9 at 16:52

Just what skills does McGary have, if any? Thus far I have seen him dunk, get some tip-ins, and pass pretty well from the high post. Oh and hit one jump shot. He also entered college at the age of 20, and he was ranked about 90th in his class until he started dominating kids of normal high-school age at AAU events. I could see him being like a Reggie Evans with way less rebounding in the NBA. I also think it's almost always a mistake to draft someone who wasn't highly rated until he blew up in the tournament.

I wonder if OKC could redo the Harden deal, would they have taken Thaddeus Young over the package they received from Houston.

I wonder if they'd trade Harden at all...still think it was a mistake

Stan reply to GoSixers on Apr 9 at 19:44

They didn't really have a choice. They would have a steep tax to pay even if they used the amnesty clause on Perkins

jrue jumper, boxing out evans might help

sissy hook

quick 3 jrue goes in

jrue 3

wilkins to the line

wright 3!

thad oop!


TwoSense on Apr 9 at 22:42

Does anyone on this team have a shred of heart or pride? However small?

Sixers outrebounded by 33

Since we are at the point when all that is worth talking about is the draft (as unexciting as it appears to be), what's up with so many "old" freshmen this year. One of the key factors i look at prospects when looking for the guys i like a the draft is age and this year i really don't know what to think of half of the freshmen prospects because they are way too old to be freshmen. 4 of the top 8 freshmen according to draftexpress are 20 years old. There are sophomores that are younger and juniors that are about the same age. Considering the Sixers do have a tendency to draft very young players - 18 year olds such as Thad Young, Jrue, Harkless and actually do very well with those picks (they all appear to be great value for where they were drafted) it's almost impossible to figure out what they will do this year. The only 18 year old freshman this year is Archie Goodwin and even though i do like him later in the first round he is probably a reach at 12. On the other hand some of the highest touted freshmen are 20 years old, players like Muhammad, McLemore, Bennett.

Such a weird draft.

20 is really old. Like held back a year old. My kids are both the oldest in their class because they were born right after the cutoff, and they'll be 19 as freshmen in college.

By "weird draft" you mean "shitty draft" right?

buke reply to Brian on Apr 10 at 10:27

Undoubtedly most of them are prep school kids where they did a post-high school year at a boarding school with an elite basketball team.

Its good to draft as young as possible if the guy is a talent but there are no absolutes. Everybodies circumstance is different. I would have no problem drafting a guy who would be 21 or 22 by the end of his rookie season with the team if I thought he was the best guy at the spot I was drafting. Most guys do not starting hitting there peak year until about 26-27 based on position at least according to an espn article I saw. Thad Young and Holiday are on the extreme side of young for a college freshman drafted. Holiday came out a year earlier then J Wall and is younger then him.

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