DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

The Misery Ends Tonight

I agree with the rational for tanking under the current rules of draft order, but it completely takes away the joy of watching the game. I really think the rules of draft order should be drastically changed, put the best and worst teams on equal footing in the deciding draft order process, lets end this losing on purpose madness. Watching the extreme that Portland has taken it to is making me sick.


I disagree with tanking just for tankings sake - there's no one worth tanking for this year - not really - the draft is a mish mash of mediocrity supposedly

Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 11:32

Even a mediocre player is better than a really mediocre player, or a bust. So long as a front office believes it knows how to draft, you're always better off drafting early in the lottery than late.

GoSixers reply to Tray on Apr 17 at 21:18

There's an argument to be made that tanking in a 'bad' year means you will end up with a better mediocre player on the guaranteed contract and thus in the years you want to tank (like next year for what's his name) you won't be able to - that's how you get mired in mediocrity

looks like melo is gonna win the scoring title

Larry Smith on Apr 17 at 12:24


Have a coke and a smile and watch this


I kind of think you're joking and that the Inquirer released some Collins-sourced hit job on Nick Young that you're making fun of, but I'm not sure.

hill west george hibbert all out for tonight

Anyone have a favorite for who the Sixers will hire as their next coach?

Brad Stevens

This would make me so happy!

From what I've seen of new ownership it also has almost no chance of happening


Charlie H reply to ojr107 on Apr 17 at 16:55

Kurt Rambis.

For some reason that made me think about Rudy T - I wonder if he's ready to give it another try

Game #82!! I'll be here, either lurking or posting, but definitely watching the game.

I'm still waiting for Swaggy to drop 50...maybe tonight's the night!!

Marc Stein votes for Jrue but no one else at ESPN agrees with him:


I'm sure we all hope and pray Bynum is not asked back, does not come back and forever fucks off into the sunset with the horse he rode in on, but...

Speaking of potential coaches, would Stan Van Gundy not be a good or even great choice? We have seen the kind of play he can get out of mediocre dudes and what he can do with big men on the roster. Stan gets my vote for best next hire.

swigga in Japan out

I don't think SVG would agree to coach a team going nowhere like the Sixers. He wants a contender. He has enough reputation to land a good job where he can actually win a lot of games.

jswigga reply to Xsago on Apr 17 at 17:35

Sadly, I think you are right. Philly is not on SVGs radar.

Tray reply to Xsago on Apr 17 at 18:06


Well if bynum is gone - svg and big men don't exist with the roster the sixers would have - nor are they good outside shooters - where stan likes to work

I think stan would take the job he was offered - there's only 30 NBA jobs - you can't be that picky if you wanna work

so then doesn't keeping Bynum, even if just for a year, make this a MUCH more attractive job for just about any coach?

Not an intelligent coach who realizes that an injury prone poor work ethiced unliked in Los Angeles 7 footer probably isn't the ticket

Man, it's been a while since I was here for a game thread. Wonder if DirecTV is going to randomly black it out.

MOTHERFUCKER! home broadcast on league pass. wanted Zu and Malik one last time. Sucks.

Aaa and of course my wifi is down. Lovely. Ok, switching to the iPad. I'm determined tonight.

So how big of a role will the refs play in getting the Lakers into the playoffs tonight?

GoSixers reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 21:19

None - Memphis will win

Hawes loses the tap (last time I'll ever say that? Please?)

i hope they shoot like 50 long twos to send doug out

I'm going to dream about the "Dribble up and take a 17-footer" Turner signature play all summer.

sissy 3!

Sissy three. Hope all you opposing GMs are watching this. Stretch five for sale!

No box out by Hawes breaking up the shutout, probably. Maybe.


Turner's matador defense does the job, though.


Heh, Turner burned again in iso. At least he fouled him for the and-one on that one.

nice flop

What a flop. Fucking sissy on sissy crime.

How can you call that a flagrant? He fucking flopped like a bitch.

That statement wasn't really fair to bitches. That was just horrible.

Turner long two!

The Pacers are doing everything possible to give this game to the Sixers.


what was that jrue

moultrie tip in

I wonder if Jrue and Thad get back in this game at all.

Nice move by Moultrie.

i feel like he has a underrated post game

Thad's back in.

Turner long two.

mymanjrue on Apr 17 at 20:56

e turner finna drop thirty in this pathetic and meaningless game.

pouring one out for all my depressedfan homies tonight


Moultrie is going to have to learn to play w/out fouling, but that's something young guys learn.

thad bank shot

Collins is resting Jrue for the playoffs.

mymanjrue reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 21:26

the unexpectged eff you jrue?

The Raps are winning as well. Looks like Portland's tank job will get them to #10 and the Sixers/Raps will be flipping a coin for 11/12.

wright 3

mymanjrue on Apr 17 at 21:29

dorell wright is securing the garbage mvp award tonight

ET turning gold into garbage, as usual.

OK, here's a serious question. If the Sixers find a way to trade Turner and slot Wright in as their starting 3 next season, how much better are they? No other changes, just give Turner's role to Wright.

mymanjrue reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 21:45

three to five wins better based on this year

Put Kwame in, Doug.

GoSixers reply to Brian on Apr 17 at 21:44

Nothing can ruin tonight - i got tastykakes for the first time in over a decade :)

mymanjrue reply to GoSixers on Apr 17 at 21:46


Yeah well - it's the little things - there's a chain out here called 'jersey mikes' that is the best imitation of a cheese steak - it was that kind of day - hadn't been in months and saw tastykakes - that was aweseome (the phillies being walloped on espn2 was not awesome)

@ChrisVito: Thought Kwame Brown was heading to the scorer's table to check in. Instead, he returns to the bench with a piece of candy.

Does candy go with all the cheddar he's been stealing this year?

17-point game. This is losable, folks.

PHI 85, IND 68

Utah down 14 at the end of 3rd- they were down 2 at the half

Memphis went to the line 11 times in the decisive third quarter. 5 times in the entire first half.

Memphis went to Zach down low a lot more

They're going to lose this game, folks!

this is pretty funny

meaningless loss (or win, crossing my fingers)for a meaningless team at the end of a truly meaningless season.

i'm clicking back and forth between this game and the Watch Paint Dry Channel

I'm hoping the game will end at 10:22 exactly. If I start watching Southland 22 minutes after it starts I can skip all the commercials and get into bed at 11.

Or you can just skip southland and go to bed - i mean it's not coming back next season so what's the point :)

did they cancel it? Fuckers.

It hasn't been cancelled oficially - but about half the cast has already signed on to new pilots - folks under contract don't tend to do that?

I watched the first season on NBC but never really felt the need to follow it

Good show. Would've been a long-running hit if NBC didn't pull that Leno crap.

NBC gets beat by Univision - they have massive problems - and good show and hit hardly ever go together any more - the ratings system right or wrong is based on the taste of americans - and americans have no taste

The networks are in trouble for a variety of reasons and need to reset their business model

That time slot was pretty much a guaranteed hit back in the day. Like a 30-year stretch.

Yeah, when Friends and Seinfeld were on the air sure :)

The Leno move was one of desperation because they were horrible at 10 PM

And they still are except for the incredibly old Law & Order franchise, and Hannibal has done alright in the numbers, but I don't expect it to last - it's too cerebral - bryan fuller always loses his audiences cause he's so damn smart and creative - americans don't wanna think when they watch tv - arcs tend to confuse them -

Think Hill Street Blues was on the air before Cheers, can't remember. Thursday nights used to belong to NBC.

Comparing those days to these days is nuts - there were like four optoins :)

Not really comparing, but NBC was still holding onto their thursday nights until the Leno thing. Hill Street Blues, LA Law, ER, Homicide, Law & Order. Southland would've continued that w/ 30 Rock and The Office holding down the 9pm hour.

You don't really know how bad ratings wise 30 rock was do you? the thursday at 10 slot was a problem BEFORE leno - that's why they tried that (and seriously why is so much attention paid to late night - their ratings numbers are miniscule) - 30 rock was propped up for some reason - but purely on ratings it should have been cancelled (I loved it once i finally started watching it and got the 'joke')

This is what ADHD gives me - too many interests to learn about :) Yes, I know more about ratings than I should too :)

I thought the 30 rock ratings tanked when they moved it out of the 9:30 slot. Eh, whatever.

Aside from Collins - what other teams do you think are looking for new coaches after this season?

Nets, probably. Depends on who gets bounced from the playoffs in the first round unexpectedly.

I think Del Negro ends up unemployed - the nets are terrible - firing avery won't help if they keep billy around

I really didn't see any 'non' playoff teams that would fire their coach - I think the guy in ATL may take the fall just because they want to show josh they're 'doing something'

I read somewhere that this year could be the year with most coaching changes. I remember that the artcle stated as many as 17 possible coaching changes that have a realistic shot at happening. Of course not all of them will, but i do expect at least 5-6 changes.

Hansbrough is faster than Turner, when he's dribbling the ball.

Dang Turner really scratched up that guy's shoulder. total sissy move.

Turner is padding his shots blocked stats tonight.


Moultrie with the sick defense to cause the violation and seal the deal on the Sixers 34th and final win of the season.

Turner squeezed in one more brick. Might have enough time to get another layup blocked, too.

If miracles happen - who do you pick on next year?

Well, it would take multiple miracles to clear the deck. If Turner and Hawes are both gone, who knows. Probably Al Jefferson.

See - look at that - you found a way to RUIN the thought of no hawes and turner :)

This team couldn't go away fast enough.

Is it just me or are D'antoni and the healthy players all pretty much talking about how much better it is that Kobe is hurt?

Anonymous on Apr 18 at 0:10

Phil Jackson arrived in Philadelphia tonight to meet w Josh Harris

Does anyone believe this is true?

I was actually having the Phil Jackson thought after that published article on ESPN LA...he could be the next pat riley - let him coach for a year, pick a successor, move to the front office - and maybe JUST MAYBE he can be a 'plus' when recruiting free agents. One of the few names I think that could have that pull

Cousins had 36 and 22 tonight, with 3 assists and 3 blocks, against a Clippers team that was actually trying to win (and did narrowly win). It's not too late to offer them Turner.


Andrew Bynum, F skipped school often; when present, sat, smirked and laughed; no work turned in

Kwame Brown, D- skills and motivation invariably tardy; accepts fate without a perceptible shrug; to his credit, is a big help when supplies are delivered to room and boxes need situating

Spencer Hawes, C- petulant student who struggles when challenged; feisty in a humorous way at times; is hard on himself and others, especially fans; listening skills and handwriting still need improvement

Lavoy Allen, D too quiet for his own good, often appears disinterested; doesn't even run at recess; packs a mean lunch

Arnett Moultrie, D+ interrupts lessons with untimely bathroom requests; problematic attention span, contributions limited; occasional spark shown

Thad Young, B+ studies his heart out, participates fully, submits work for extra credit; a pleasure to have in class

Evan Turner, D+ inconsistency plagues him, as does a poor attitude - disregards directions, makes fun of others, bristles at authority; frequently appears distressed; daydreams often; splendid work submitted on occasion; much room for growth

Jrue Holiday, B- attention seeker, full of personality, does not clean up messes; delightful at times but needy, requires much reinforcement; improvement shown, room for more

Damien Wilkins, C- started year passively, showed spunk by close; strong-willed; advanced age both helps and hurts; is dependably first in line at fire drills

Dorell Wright, C+ has talents, effort shown, wants to please, good citizen; distracted at times by others; overall, a contributor

Nick Young, C- weaknesses countered by his natural good humor, style and perspective; never complains; a ray of sunshine when things click

Justin Holiday, D- placement in question; must learn to do his own work

Jason Richardson, Incomplete was given pass to nurse's office, never returned

Statman reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 18 at 12:20

I didn't see many Sixers games this year, but from what I saw, these grades look fair. I like your non-inflated grading system where it isn't guaranteed that a certain percentage of the class will get A's.

Just out of curiosity, Prof. Bill, who was the last Sixer to which you would have given a full "A"? Iverson in 00-01? Barkley in 89-90? Surely Moses in 82-83?

Tray reply to Statman on Apr 18 at 12:30

Mutombo's 00-01 stint for us was also very good, I think.

Thanks for your remarks, Statman.

Would issue an 'A' for each of those you performances mentioned. Barkley and Moses earned multiple A's while here. Also, J, Cheeks & Bobby Jones each earned more than 1. Wilt, all 4 seasons; Hal 3 or 4; Chet 1 or 2, Billy 1 ('69-'70).

The sum of 'excellence': 10 players in 50 years; 4 of them in 1st decade.

I think Andre Igoudla is a better player then Bobby Jones on both sides of the ball. You have to be careful not to ding a guy like Igoudala based on his team-mates and a lot of bs about his peronality. It didn't stop the Nuggets from winning 57 games with him this year. I would have given Hersey Hawnkins at least as season of A or A- as well if we are looking that last 30 years or so a very good player at his best for the Sixers. If you don't believe it check out his stats in 1990-91 they are pretty eye popping: 22ppg, .472 FG%,.40% 3pt, 3.9 RPG, 3.7 Ast, 2.2 spg. He had a couple of other seasons pretty close to this as a Sixer.

Firmly disagree with your Iguodala-Jones conclusion. Bobby, the better player, Sundays through Saturdays.

I didn't "ding" Iguodala; didn't mention him as 'A' graded seasons are for excellent overall performances only.

Hawk was a solid player, could shoot. Was a turnstile defensively at times, a little slow.

Liked Miller, still do (low to ground and lethal at times). Mr. Moxie. Scorched often by quicker guards though.

Like George McGinnis before them (whom I fondly remember and credit for reviving basketball legitimacy at the Spectrum in '75-'76), your mentioned players were/are successful and influential, but fall short of excellence, the sterling standard, the 'A'.

KH reply to Statman on Apr 18 at 14:00

Your asking Bill but I probably would have given Igoudala and Andre Miller at least an A- if not out right A's in at least one of there seasons with the team. Igoudala was a 17-18 PER type player with the Sixers in addition to pretty much all-leauge defense(even if he wasn't getting credit for it). Miller at his best with the Sixers was there best point guard since Cheeks including Holiday imo. Also, I would have given Holiday a B+ he carried a gigantic load on this team and is a legitimate 2 way player. He season is marred by about last 20 games or so before that he was pretty much dynamite.

Statman reply to KH on Apr 18 at 14:48

For the record, I would have given Iguodala an 'A' for both 08-09 (18.8 PPG on 56% TS%) and 10-11 (lower scoring but one of the best passing seasons ever by a forward, plus amazing defense that prompted Brian to put together his impressive "shutdown list"). But Dollar Bill isn't objective about Iguodala (hates him with a passion) and neither am I (my favorite Sixer in the last 20 years), so I decided to leave him out of the discussion.

Nice that you brought up Hawkins' 90-91 season (both that and 89-90 would earn A's from me). He was my favorite from that era, and his 39-point performance in the do-or-die Game 5 in the first round of the 1990 playoffs ranks as one of the all-time clutch playoff games that I can remember.

For the record, I'd give Jrue a 'B' for this year, which isn't far off from your grade or Dollar Bill's.

Yeah, I don't have a big problem with any of the grades. The comments for Jrue baffle me, but that's never going to change. I probably would've given him a C+, thought he was borderline A for 2/3 of the season, then a D the rest of the way. Overall, slightly above average.

Thad probably deserves the B+, but I'd love to know why he can really rebound in spurts, then he gets destroyed on the glass the rest of the time. He's going to need to figure that out (and how to hit a freebie). Not much else to argue with.

...so if these owners really do only care about selling tickets, why are they (allegedly) ousting Doug?

I'm not sure what one thing has to do with the other. Not a lot of people bought tickets to see Doug coach.

"Doug will not coach next year", not pushed out, will be an advisor to Harris

mymanjrue reply to das411 on Apr 18 at 10:07

translation:doug was pushed out; will be paid for doing nothing next year as compensation

"there will be more analytics in our decision making"

thats good, just hire a coach who will listen/use them please

i should add josh Harris said that

woah Doug knew at Christmas he'd leave??

Sharone Wright reply to das411 on Apr 18 at 10:22

Mailed in the last three months.

Sharone Wright on Apr 18 at 10:25

He's rambling about how hard it is to coach in the NBA. Said he would have left even if they won this year. Why did DC take this job if he knew he couldn't do it?

Cause he's an ego maniac?

Sharone Wright on Apr 18 at 10:29

"Not a dire situation." I disagree, Josh Harris.

I actually like that quote. Hopefully it means he's not in a rush to try and get back to being good.

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 11:10

doug Collins, what an asshole

Sharone Wright reply to mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 11:26

When asked why he didn't tell his players last night that he was quitting, he said, "because I didn't want to. I had things to do." Pretty sure that is verbatim.

Now - I can see some reasons to not tell players you're quitting, distracting them, want them focused on the seasons but 'i had things to do'? Seriously doug - you had a job coaching the sixers - that's it - that WAS your thing to do - and you did a piss poor job of it this year after your coup

Didn't they all already know? I doubt any of them like him, it would've been an awkward conversation.

Sharone Wright reply to Tray on Apr 18 at 11:43

Yeah, but at least ahve the decency to tell them last night after the game!

I just picture Turner awkwardly smirking at him.

Flew the coop on own instincts. Talked off ledge a few months back. I hope next coach is calmer and more adept, less self-involved.

Am happy that the off-season has arrived. My eyes and ears hurt.

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 11:20

Collins: "I have incredible love and joy for" josh harris

If someone was paying me large amounts of cash not to work when they didn't have to - I would too

looks like CLE is firing byron scott

See - sure - their record sucked - but their roster is really young and they suffered serious injuries to key players this year - not sure how he takes the fall for that...thought they'd give him another year

Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 18 at 11:57

Maybe it's more an issue of player development, although Tristan Thompson has developed. I've seen a lot to the effect that Irving takes games and defensive possessions off, so I mean, if the Scott-Irving relationship is bad or if he was failing to get through to him, that might be reason enough.

Well if that's why he got fired, good for the cavs for giving all the power to one player - how'd that work out last time?

Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 18 at 12:12

Firing a coach because he's failed to maximize a key player's abilities or motivate a key player isn't quite the same thing as giving that player the power to fire the coach.

Tom Moore on Apr 18 at 12:04

Story (with video): Collins: I made decision to resign 'around Christmas'


T. Young, Holiday: Stockholm Syndrome refugees

Terribly disappointed to read that Collins will still be 'advising' for five years - I do hope that's all spin and that basically he's just collecting pay checks to stay away

Lawrence Frank reportedly getting the ax

Interim Phoenix guy probably not getting the job

Gotta wonder where the sixers job ranks (in terms of roster) in available jobs - I know it's not the best opening as while it is in ohio the cleveland roster looks better long term than the sixers

Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 18 at 13:42

I'd also rank Detroit over us.

So wait a minute - the sixers have known for four months they would need a new coach and yet that aren't sure if they'll have one at the draft?

That's encouraging

so would you be more or less pissed if Harris had said yes, it's Curry today?

I'd be pissed it was curry but unsurprised since doug is not going anywhere - i'm not really sure that the outcome had to be curry - they had forewarning - they could have shopped the job - and it seems like they've done nothing to find a new coach so far

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 13:55

"We've got a lot of good young pieces and we probably played our best basketball the last six weeks of the season, which was important to me"

Fuck you, too

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 13:57

ET sez: "He could always go back to commentating. Whatever he wants to do that makes him happy."

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 13:58

Josh Harris sez we begged him to come back "but at the same time I recognized his desire as a man"

Too bad Eddie Jordan signed with Rutgers. He would be a great pickup to ensure a good draft pick next year. I'm all for getting a subpar coach like Curry to basically just man down the position next year. Getting a top draft pick in next years studded draft and then getting a top FA to pair with Wiggins, Holiday, Young is pivotal for this franchise to become relevant.

Don't think it's possible to shave 15 wins off this team's total without getting rid of Jrue and/or Thad.

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 18 at 17:07

I don't know. We end the season 5th from the bottom in offensive rating, so I don't see that what's keeping our heads above water is our two leading scorers/our only real playmaker. Rather, what's keeping us from totally tanking is the league-average defense. Do Jrue and Thad get the credit for that? On/off numbers seem to suggest that we're a lot worse defensively when either is on the bench, but a lot of this is coaching; after all, in the 2009 season, we played Iguodala 40 minutes a game, Thad 32 minutes a game, Jrue 24 minutes a game, still had Brand, and yet were 24th in the league in defense. That took some horrible coaching, but you don't need to be a horrible defensive coach to have a bad defense with this roster; you just need to be an average one. Someone like Lawrence Frank, perhaps.

I guess if you have a coach who actively puts his worst defensive lineups on the floor, you could do it (remember the lineups Jordan would trot out there to hold on to leads?) But that probably means a coach who's willing to put Jrue and Thad on the bench together for long stretches, which I don't see as very likely.

Assuming they replace Collins with a halfway competent coach, I'd say the floor is maybe 30 wins if they don't get rid of Jrue or Thad. Unless one of them misses a bunch of time to injury, which I suppose if I was a good fan who cared about getting a star, I'd be rooting for.

Tray reply to Brian on Apr 18 at 17:55

I think we can get worse if we simply use worse defensive schemes. I mean, there are coaches who have a defensive philosophy of packing the paint and giving up open threes.

It's definitely possible. I think we're talking a 5-game swing unless you get a coach willing to do stupid things w/ rotations to actively make the defense worse, though. Don't think it's much more than that.

Rich reply to Brian on Apr 18 at 18:29

I think they seriously need to look at off-loading Thad. He's a luxury, on a team that needs much more than that. But his trade market is tricky.

mymanjrue reply to Rich on Apr 18 at 18:44

I agree, Rich. That's been my thinking for awhile now-not that I don't love Thad

I agree with you about Thad. Do you think a team that misses out in free agency this summer might be willing to give up a pick in next year's draft for him? That would be perfect, but don't know if it's possible.

Rich reply to sander on Apr 18 at 22:28

I think that would be the dream scenario, as you get worse because your return is delayed a year and still should be promising, but as you said, I don't know if it's possible.

I feel like Toronto might be dumb enough to do that, but I don't think they can because they gave this year's pick to OKC.

Stan reply to Brian on Apr 18 at 19:10

They could go down with "injuries" or they could be bad enough just to get to the lottery and pray to Stern so that he gives us a good draft pick.

Tom Moore on Apr 18 at 16:22

Link to story on some potential coaching candidates:


Tom Moore on Apr 18 at 16:24

Anybody else find it interesting that Harris kept mentioning cost per win as "something we've never measured before" and said they paid $84M for only 34 wins this year? Wonder if that's the kind of thinking that leads to picking up more draft picks....or guys who can deliver huge value even at max contracts, like a certain center might be able to...

That 84 mil number HAS to include Elton right? I mean story teller has the sixers as 65 million

Yeah, why wouldn't they include Brand?

Well I wouldn't' include it in a per win calculation - cause he wasn't on the roster - but doug was - so his salary should be included. Elton is a one time charge - they chose it - but it shouldn't be applied to the win total in my opinion - elton wasn't great in dallas this year - it's not like the sixers were going to be THAT much better if was here :)

Coaching salaries should be used in per win costs though i believe

Since getting rid of Evan Turner seems to be the stuff of dreams on this board (and possibly Sixers fans in general given the poll results at Philly.com), I thought I would compile a list of opposing teams he performed best against this season. I limited the list to those teams where he had a shooting efficiency rating above what Bryan refers to as the Mendoza line. So, his rating in that department represents how many points per full shot he averaged against those teams. Also included are games played, average points, Assist to turnover ratio, and rebound average in those games.

These teams are sorted according to the shooting efficiency ratio.

Legend: Team,Games,PTS,Sh Eff,A/T,Rb

Dallas-2, 19.5, 1.28, 1.50, 4.5
Charlt-4, 19.3, 1.13, .89, 8.3
OKCity-2, 15.5, 1.13, 1.13, 5.5
Memphs-2, 14, 1.12, 2.29, 4.5
Clevel-4, 15.3, 1.08, 4.00, 8.8
Lakers-2, 19, 1.07, 3.67, 8.5
Houstn- 2, 9, 1.06, 3.00, 4.5
Atlant- 4, 14, 1.03, 1.92, 6.0
GoldSt- 2, 16, 1.03, 2.60, 7.5
NYKnck- 4, 15.8,1.03, 1.80, 8.0
Milwau- 4, 16, 1.01, 1.54, 5.0

So, if better performances against opponents leave more favorable impressions on potential trade partners, Turner would have left the best overall impressions on Dallas, Charlotte, OK City, Cleveland, LA Lakers, Golden State, and the Knicks

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 21:28

from bill simmons' annual trade value column...explaining guys who made the list last year but have fallen off- Evan Turner (no. 46) will either haunt Philly on his next team or just plain haunt his next team (I'm leaning toward the latter)

later, from the real list: 40. Jrue Holiday
Had him ranked 12 spots higher in February … and then the Sixers fell apart and briskly completed their "How One Risky Blockbuster Trade And Three Seemingly Minor But Definitely Dumb Free-Agent Signings Can Completely Murder Any And All Momentum Of A Feel-Good Playoff Team" cycle. That reminds me: Kudos to Doug Collins for keeping one of my favorite streaks alive — he's never coached a team for longer than three years! I think that makes him the Elizabeth Taylor of NBA coaches. I can't wait until he takes a job that's the equivalent of Larry Fortensky. Remember Larry Fortensky? Anyone? Check out his hair! It's magnificent! I couldn't be happier to introduce you to Larry.

Tray reply to mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 21:32

Bill Simmons is an idiot. Posting his stuff is like posting bleacher report.

Simmons' passage is funny. Apply at your post office tomorrow for a sense of humor. [Good pass, mymanjrue.]

mymanjrue reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 18 at 21:55

thanks dolla dolla bill. Loved your grades

You're a far better writer and humorist than Simmons on his best days.

Thanks, Tray. Nice of you to say that. I don't read Simmons regularly. Didn't he go from Boston blogger to national pundit? The Liz-Larry stuff cracked me up. Had totally forgot about that odd couple. Analogous contemporary hypothetical linking: Lindsay Lohan and Joe the (Ohio) Plumber.

mymanjrue reply to Dollar Bill on Apr 19 at 3:20

yes, national pundit and accompanying LA address and swollen cranium. Has his lame moments to be sure but I personally have always enjoyed his NBA insights. Can see why Tray and others dislike him so passionately as his persona has a considerable smarm factor.

mymanjrue on Apr 18 at 21:57

by the by, this Phillies game is turning extremely painful

Yeah - they're old and breaking down - and manuel will get the boot though it's not his fault - but hey - this right here is funny


GM choice and coach choice and a synchronized direction have to be ironed out before talent is moved or acquired.


Really impressed with Frank Vogel here. The way he pays attention and understands stats is far far ahead of most NBA coaches.

stuck in the mud? on Apr 19 at 16:41

The more I think about it, the Sixers should call up Orlando and ask them if they'd like the Sixers pick this year after all. Then sign Andrew Bynum to a 2 year max deal with an incentive option that triggers an extra three years if he plays 50 games or more each of the first two season.

Why do this? If Bynum can't play, the Sixers can be bad enough to have a really bad record [e.g. great draft pick] after next year. A middling pick this year does not put them in a position that gets them an impact player.

Meantime, if Bynum is actually healthy and plays next year - we have the big man we wanted in the first place. If the Sixers let Bynum go and use this year's pick ... they will spend the next 4 years watching Houston become a top 5 team with the guy the gave up so much to trade for. I say double down. The downside at least makes you bad enough to get a good player in the draft.

THIS - the only guy in the league other than Dwight who could turn this current team, and the 2013-14 version of it since nobody else wants any of these guys, into the potential beast we all thought they would be is #33...worst case is another season like this one but with omre cap space clearing, no?

Tray reply to das411 on Apr 19 at 19:08

"potential beast" seems like such a stretch. You can't be as bad as we are and add one player and get really good, unless that player is LeBron or Duncan and Shaq in their primes. We'd win 50 games, maybe. Also, I'm sure there are teams that want Thad.

You forget that Bynum will most likely suit up for 30-40 regular season games and miss the rest of the season. That way he will screw up any lottery chance the Sixers will have and still make them useless in the playoffs, if they even make them.

‏@tmoorepburbs 2m
#Sixers win coin flip with #Raptors, will likely end up with 11th pick in NBA Draft. Have 0.8 percent shot at No. 1 overall pick. #76ers

Many years ago (now) i did a little research regarding 'jumping' in the lottery - at the time no double digit team had every jumped into the top 3 - I think at the time 9 had done it once (and the sixers were picking 9th that year).

Be nice if this was the year

only recent one i can remember where a team jumped up alot of spots was when the bulls were 9th and won the lotery when they took rose

sooo you're saying there's a chance?

"Not to be arrogant or cocky, but my name comes up, I believe, because of trade value in that situation," Turner said. "Regardless of whether I get heat for certain situations or certain bad nights and stuff, I still think I'm a valuable player in this league."

"I'm just tapping the surface," said Turner, who averaged 7.2 points as a rookie and 9.4 last season. "The difference between 14 points and 18 points are a couple of foul calls. So people might agree that I get fouled a lot. So if I get to 18 points, that's all-star numbers."

Turner thinks hes close to an allstar. Hahahahahahahaha please get rid of this guy

Tray reply to Diesel on Apr 20 at 17:09

There are like 50 crazy things about that statement (his, not yours).

Jesse reply to Diesel on Apr 20 at 18:36

Haha yeah I saw this. This guy lives on Neptune.

South Broad on Apr 20 at 17:34

thanks for posting that. AI will always be my favorite athlete ever, and a truly fascinating individual to me. sounds like he's an alcoholic so i hope he gets the help he needs, but feel like it's going to end badly.

Tom Moore on Apr 20 at 17:38

Sunday column (with video): Too bad Sixers can't follow Magic plan:


buke reply to Tom Moore on Apr 20 at 20:24

Like your article, but, of course, the Sixers could follow the Magic's plan. They would just be a little behind their schedule is all.

Still, despite having a pretty short bench and very few premier players, the Sixers still finished well above the Magic. I like the Magic's team but time will tell whether they emerge as something closer to OK City or to Sacramento.

Tray reply to Tom Moore on Apr 20 at 22:29

Undersized power forwards are a thing in the NBA these days, you know. I think Thad's a legitimate asset.

Greg reply to Tom Moore on Apr 21 at 1:09

This is pretty much my opinion. What bothers me is that we had so much talent. Back when we had Lou williams and thad coming off the bench I felt like we had 9 guys who could start in this league (i knew everyone disagreed with me so I didnt actually say this), but now we kind if see what some of these guys can do. The last thing we probably ever expected was to see meeks scorin the critical buckets for the lakers to lock up the 7th seed. Vuc and harkless staring in orlando. Iguadala,miller feels like im watching the sixers. Speights,lou, willie green,etc. These arent superstars but in terms of net talent we had a bunch of guys other teams would love to try in a starting role. If you can't get a valuable pieces in trade then they should have kept these guys and only traded for upgrades.

Which brings me to my next point. Bynum should be given every chance to get healthy and sign a team friendly deal. If we dont give him a chance someone else will. Let's see first if he can get healthy. i know it's hard to want to risk having another elton brand contract, but if he is playing again this seems to me like a mid-risk high reward move for a team that depleted itself. If he's not healthy he might accept team options? Thats all i got but at least this gives us a chance to rebound.

Tray reply to Greg on Apr 21 at 1:30

Well we kind of packaged a lot of that talent in a trade, and unfortunately it blew up in our faces. Speights was traded away for nothing because he really is nothing. Green's crap. Same with Meeks, there are millions of fill-in players like him. And I don't see why we should've resigned Miller; cap space is valuable too and we weren't going anywhere with him, and the trade value of a really old veteran on a new deal isn't going to be that high. Letting Lou go and signing the guys we did to replace him was the one mistake (out of the things you mention, not the only mistake we've made in recent years), but it wasn't a disastrous move.

Greg reply to Tray on Apr 21 at 1:52

Even if the players are bad that doesn't mean we can't get something better in return. speights had some good moments in his first year and could have been packed with another decent "fill in" for a player. I'm pretty sure they could have found a way to complete the bynum trade without giving up Vuc, who really never had much of a chance. I do understand your point about capspace but it's not like nick young richardson hawes and kawame were a better use of that space. I didn't say getting rid of every guy was a bad idea. I'm just pointing out the ovrall downgrade which was not only a result of bynums injury, because even that trade gave up too much. I'm not making a list of all their mistakes but i'd say there were a bunch of mistakes made.

buke reply to Greg on Apr 21 at 13:19

Of course, you've heard of the phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." George W. Bush also had a similar but slightly mangled version.

That's part of the psychology at work in any eventual decision about Bynum. I guess it depends upon the temperament of the owners and maybe they would just reduce the decision to a simple risk assessment of costs vs. benefits. But, if it were me, I don't think I could give Bynum another opportunity to burn me.

Greg reply to buke on Apr 21 at 17:11

The past is the past, as far as I'm concerned, and I wouldn't necessarily say I was fooled the first time around.

Every player should be evaluated with the same considerations as if another team had gotten fooled. I initially hated the Brand trade because he was injured and up in age, but after his contract was ending I was one of the biggest supporters to keep him around as a cheap vet. Obviously that wouldn't have helped much in this case but the point is I evaluate him the same way I would if his injury had affected another team. As if he was just a regular free agent from somewhere else. I wasn't even fooled the first time but the mistake was in the past and has no bearing on future choices. The injury itself does have bearing.

What does it matter which team got fooled by the injury? Is he worth the risk or not? If you think it's a stupid risk for any team to re-sign him, then thats fine, but the sixers past season is over and has no bearing on that decision. The fact the sixers struggled with his injury (as opposed to some other team) is irrelevant in assessing his future.

In this case even bynum got fooled. I never liked the trade but would have liked to have him if he can play. Even if the trade was a bad risk, that's over. You cant erase the past, but if he can play by next year that's what counts. If he can play, this currently sounds like a good risk. (its not like we have to give up anything)

he's also younger than brand. poundingtherock.com had a good article a while back on stars who overcame knee injuries early in their career. I know bynums knee problems have been going on a long time, but the team should assess this again later. If his knees are still horrible and another team wants to offer a max deal then obviously we may have to let go, but more likely than that I guess he'll either be ready to play and/or take a team friendly deal.

Greg reply to Greg on Apr 21 at 17:19

2 corrections...
-"hated the brand signing", not a trade
-"risk for any team to sign him", not re-sign

buke reply to Greg on Apr 21 at 17:36

Brevity isn't your strong point, is it? Although I must say you have redundancy down pat.

I wrote earlier that this was a matter of temperament. If one is completely dispassionate, then one might simply be willing to bear the risks of getting burned again if the risk isn't overly large in relation to the potential benefits. But few people are completely dispassionate after being cheated. Temperaments are real and can't be dismissed by abstractions.

Brand was a different story because he was under a long-term contract. The club (and you and any other fans) really had no choice but to keep the faith. He also had a solid veteran reputation.

Greg reply to buke on Apr 21 at 17:42

It's a matter of choice. I realized that comment was a little more detailed than neceassary but I wasn't concerned enough to go back and edit.

Greg reply to buke on Apr 21 at 17:49

The redundancy was an accident that happened as i moved a couple paragraphs around :) sorry it was such a burden for you

Greg reply to buke on Apr 21 at 18:10

By the way, there are few game-changing centers in the league right now. If anything it seems more dispassionate to sit at the bottom of the league hoping someone else will come along with no plan. I believe passionate fans would like to have a top center, if he can get healthy.

gotta love seeing Andre Miller & Iguodala dominate in a playoff game

Rodney reply to Mike on Apr 20 at 21:25

Bittersweet. I blame it all on Stefanski. The no-bid contract and the lowball we no longer need your services because it's Lou's job at point now offer.

buke reply to Rodney on Apr 20 at 22:43

Holiday also would have benefitted from being the understudy to a real point guard for at least a couple of years. I hated seeing Miller go more than any Sixer since Barkley.

Mike reply to Rodney on Apr 21 at 9:38

i mean, he is probably one of the 5 worst defenders in the league at this point. his ability to do things like he did in the 4th Q last night at this point in his career is pretty remarkable though.

Clippers going 11 deep, as is Memphis, but Willie, formerly the team's starting two guard, isn't getting a single minute. A few years from now, that will be Evan "Two Foul Calls Away From All-Star Status" Turner.

Greg reply to Tray on Apr 21 at 1:39

Not sure whats going on with willie, but i don't think this is a result of his play. As the commentators pointed out, the clippers had him starting 57 games this year and he was one of the league leaders in 3 point percentage.

If he was all that bad, i dont think the clippers (who brian refers to having a "deep" roster) would keep him in a starting role. Looks like he was inactive for their final game which makes me think this may be an injury.

Rich reply to Greg on Apr 21 at 15:47

I don't think Willie's played bad in his role (making threes like you said), but he is not playing in the playoffs because he's not good enough to crack that rotation. Even during the season, he would play about about eight minutes at the beginning of each half and then not play the rest of the game unless it was a blowout. And Billups was hurt pretty much the entire year. Very deep team.

He was always the 11th or 12th best player on the team, but it made sense to start him when his value could be maximized.

Tom Moore on Apr 22 at 8:43

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment