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Guest Post: Please Tank

Haha, thanks for posting, Brian! Kind of making fun of myself a little for wanting our team to lose, but had a good time writing!

SixersRising on May 25 at 9:21

I'm excited for the new front office and if they made the commitment to tank, I'd be fine with it. However, most of what I'm seeing from folks does not involve a real commitment to tanking. I do not for a moment believe that it's acceptable to tank by asking players not to do their best.

Should the FO decide to tank, prepare yourselves to see Jrue, Thad and Turner all traded for draft picks. Also be ready to see Kwame Brown playing 32 minutes a game. There are a lot of bad teams in the NBA. Tanking looks like trading to get multiple first round picks ... then finding a way to be bad enough to assure that the one you already own is top 5.

I question whether many really have the stomach for it. I love hockey, so if they decided to do it I'd survive.

If the sixers wanted to Tank, keeping Evan Turner would be a huge part of that (after you trade Thad and Jrue), you make him your primary ball handler, give him the 'focus' as he feels he deserves, without adding any quality players in the off season, you'll win less than 20 games.

I'm prepared for Evan Turner to be traded, I dream of Evan Turner being traded, Evan Turner is not a hinderance to losing games, he's an intense asset that helps you lose.

If the sixers looked like they had a plan in place that involved building a title contender (and yes I know luck is required) I'd be ok with it.

If folks didn't give up when Eddie Jordan was coaching I don't think they'd give up an intelligent plant

Nice writing BTW - Sander


Holy ****. It's very unlikely this guy will ever be an NBA player, but if i can get a 55-60 pick without giving up anything of value i'd draft him just for the fun of it. He'll most likely go undrafted, so i'd definitely give him a call after the draft as a recruit for Delaware 87ers. They've got nothing to lose and who know maybe he'll learn how to defend wings and shoot the three.

SixersRising on May 25 at 12:36

Actually GoSixers you make a great point. Perhaps the surest way to tank doesn't even involve players, just bring back Eddie Jordan as coach for a year or two.

And even I couldn't stomach that.

One write speculates on how 'analytics' will be used to try and improve Jrue (and Evan) offensively

Love the Eastern Front photography.

Now, on to the other form of "tanking." One doesn't have to strive for tanking. As 2010 and 2013 illustrate, it can happen without trying and the same thing could be true next year. Also, as bad as the Sixers were this year, they weren't quite bad enough to be considered primo tankers. In today's NBA, a team faces difficult competition to be among the very worst. Unless you are willing to abandon all claims to credibility, losing 13 straight games at the end of the year (e.g., Portland) is more difficult than it looks.

I'm not going to rehash the whole anti-tanking argument because it has been stated numerous times before, but suffice to say that I believe a team has a better chance of becoming Sacramento than OK City as a result of repeated tanking. San Antonio tanked only once in the last generation or so and got Tim Duncan as a result but he's rare enough to be a Hall of Famer and he's far from the only reason they're now shooting for their fifth championship during that time period.

Finally, the nineties were a far worse time to be a Sixer fan than this century. That's because the team has been mostly competitive this century (6 playoff appearances with Iverson but also 4 without him) while they were perennial 20+ game winners in the nineties. The regular season is 82 games so it still matters.

Fans who believe that neither the franchise nor the players care about winning will stop buying tickets. And the sports television networks don't show lousy teams from the Eastern and Central time zones very often (Western teams get more regular exposure regardless of record because there are fewer of them to choose from for late games). Money from tickets and television appearances mean more than the hopes of blog participants.

Chronic mediocrity won't get you on television, and every year you continue to be stuck in neutral you will lose more and more fans.

Tanking has nothing to do with players, players don't tank, franchises decide to. Unless the sixers give up Jrue and Thad this off season they aren't looking to tank, though if the hype is even close to accurate, next season is a season worth tanking for if all the freshman projected to be high lottery picks come out (it goes beyond just Wiggins)

the Pacers are kind of an argument against what Brian has been saying all season, that mid-1st round picks aren't worth losing a few more games for:

George- #10
Hill- #26
Hibbert- #17
West- #18
Stephenson- #40

they didnt draft hill or west

No, but I don't think that was the point - the point wasn't what team drafted them but where they were drafted :)

This statement doesn't really make sense to me. All their guys were drafted mid-first. How is that an argument in favor of tanking? I guess it could be argument that you don't have to tank to contend, but I'm pretty sure this Pacer's squad will be forgotten if they lose to Miami, or brushed aside as an anomaly if they make it further, like the Pistons have been.

I think the problem is that Mike thinks you're pro tanking :)

Mike reply to Brian on May 26 at 13:06

Yea sorry, my post didn't really make sense. I wasn't really talking about tanking. We've just had the conversation a few times this season about how much mid-1st round picks are worth. I thought I remembered you saying you'd rather them get the 8 seed than move up a few picks, because unless you were drafting top 5ish you're usually not getting an impact player.

This Pacers team is really good and well coached. I think if Wade isn't healthy they absolutely can beat the Heat. Miami's strength is getting easy buckets at the basket and 3-point shooting, and Indiana defends both of those better than any team in the league.

Mike reply to Mike on May 26 at 13:13

I realize I'm kind of contradicting myself. Basically I'm just saying mid-1st round picks are indeed valuable, and you can find impact players there.

I'm actually kind of shocked how good Hibbert has become, because I remember thinking he was a total stiff at Georgetown and would not amount to much of an NBA player. He's put a lot of work into his game.

Tray reply to Mike on May 26 at 14:02

Well your post still doesn't make sense, to be honest, because outside of George all those guys were drafted by non-lottery teams. So you can still get the 8 seed and draft those players.

Tray reply to Tray on May 26 at 14:10

And 17/18, given how bad the East usually is compared to the West, that's usually about the 6th seed in the East. But you don't really need all this anecdotal evidence, you can just look at the studies that have been done on the average value of each pick. Which do show that non-lottery picks are worth a lot less on average.

Mike reply to Tray on May 26 at 15:42

"Basically I'm just saying mid-1st round picks are indeed valuable, and you can find impact players there."

Tray reply to Mike on May 26 at 19:07

Yeah, I was responding to "I thought I remembered you saying you'd rather them get the 8 seed than move up a few picks, because unless you were drafting top 5ish you're usually not getting an impact player." So do you disagree with Brian on that, or do you think, as your examples seem to show, it's fine to draft 15th and get the 8 seed because there's all this mid-first-round talent at 15 and below? My own view is that (a) in almost every draft there will be some really good players available after 14, but (b) almost always no superstars, which a team does need to acquire at some point (let's say Manu, Parker, Marc Gasol, and Ben Wallace, who have all been the best players on contenders and/or championship-winning teams at some point, are exceptions to this rule, which seems generous), and (c) the chances of your being the team that correctly picks the really good players after 14 isn't so great, though some teams certainly are a lot better at this than others and it certainly isn't pure luck.

Tray reply to Tray on May 26 at 19:12

And let me just add, part of what makes (c) true is that the players you're talking about generally weren't really great prospects that teams just whiffed on and should've picked earlier. Marc Gasol wasn't a very good player when he was drafted. Parker had no jump shot, no floater, and was a really erratic floor general when he was drafted. Hibbert, like you said, appeared to very possibly be a stiff when he got drafted. So to some extent these teams just got lucky that those players developed that much, although the team's coaching staff had a lot to do with it in some cases.

@KBergCBS 2m
Bobcats agree to terms with Steve Clifford as head coach, league sources confirm

one less team needs a head coach now

Ginobili had 6 points on 6 shots, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, and 6 turnovers tonight. I thought of Evan Turner before the Satan thing even crossed my mind.

Nah, Turner would've needed about 14 shots to get his 6 points.

YoungGun13 on May 28 at 13:47

hey what do you guys think about jamaal franklin the kid from san diego state? I just heard about him then watched his dx scouting video and this guy is super-athletic. He also hits the boards hard and his stats across the board are really good. He reminds me of d-wade when he was at marquette. Might be the steal of the draft.

I think the Sixers have had enough of junior guards who are great rebounders but can't shoot, don't you?

Drafting older guys is almost never the way to go in the draft. Same thing hold for guards who can't shoot unless they are dominant at driving and finishing at the basket with a great handle.

To put it shortly, i'm not a fan of Franklin at all. I'd stay away from him, unless he falls to the second round, where at 35 or 42 (the Sixers picks) i guess he is solid value.

Jesse reply to Xsago on May 28 at 16:50

I generally agree with you, but the situation changes when you're talking about schools outside the major conferences. The guys just don't get as much exposure and tend to stay in school for longer. Guys like Steph Curry, Kenneth Faried, Larry Sanders, and Damien Lillard off the top of my head are recent guys from mid majors who stayed in school for at least 3 years and have already had success in the NBA.

Faried and Sanders are not guards. And Curry and Lillard were very good to great shooters. Franklin in neither.

Jesse reply to Xsago on May 28 at 17:03

Ummm ok, so you are drawing a distinction between guards and forwards and you are discounting the guards because they were good shooters. It sounds like you just picking random features to support your argument

No. If you want me to make it simple, here is the most simplistic version: Franklin is old and can't shoot. The only guard that was old and couldn't shoot that became a good player in the NBA that i know of is Wade. And Franklin is nowhere near the prospect Wade was. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Jesse reply to Xsago on May 28 at 18:59

Yeah with those qualifiers I guess you could say Greivis Vasquez, Norris Cole and Kawhi Leonard, unless you think a junior is drastically older than a Sophomore.

Age is more important than class IMO. Leonard was much younger than Franklin. They are the same age and Leonard has 2 years in the NBA under his belt.

I don't remember much about Vasquez and Cole as prospects, but i think it's safe to say that Cole is not a good NBA player. As for Vasquez he is a pass first point guard which is a very different role than Franklins. He was also a better shooter in college.

Who knows, maybe i'm wrong about Franlkin, but it seems to me that guys like him never become good players in the NBA.

Jesse reply to Xsago on May 28 at 20:38

I mean I agree that older and not good 3pt shooter are two characteristics that are not positive. It goes without saying that you want to draft guys with positive qualities. I'm more making the argument that you have to evaluate mid-major players differently from guys at big time schools. Also, shooting is one thing that can definitely improve in the NBA. Turner's corner three this year aside, Vasquez was a 32% 3pt shooter from the college 3pt line and a 34% shooter this year in the NBA (taking 3 per game). Leonard was a 25% career shooter in college and was 37% this year and 42% last year.

But yes, in general, you are right that being older and having a poor 3pt shooting percentage in college are bad things.

Jesse reply to Xsago on May 28 at 20:41

We can agree to disagree about Norris Cole. I think he's a solid backup PG. His numbers in this year's playoffs are very good for a backup point. I don't feel strongly either way though.

You make a solid point about where his value is. If we're at 11, aim for top 10 value. If we're at 21, aim for top 20 value, etc.

And again I agree that he isn't a great fit, although I do like him as a prospect. For my own self-indulgence here is my top eleven specifically for the Sixers:

1. Nerlens Noel
2. Anthony Bennett
3. Ben McLemore
4. Victor Oladipo
5. Rudy Gobert
6. Alex Len (foot injury knocks him below Gobert)
7. Otto Porter (next Wesley Johnson)
8. Dennis Schroeder
9. Trey Burke (lack of D and off-the-ball play marginalize fit)
10. Shabazz Muhammad (enigma of the draft)
11. Sergey Karasev

I'll reserve my choice of top 11 for later, some things might pop up in the mean time, but as of right now i like a lot of the same guys you do. My top 11 have 9 of your guys with the exception of McLemore and Gobert. I have Zeller and Adetokunbo in my top 11 instead.

I usually look for guys that i think are underrated according to the rankings around the web and i think, similar to 2011, this year is the year of the international guys. Len, Adams, Karasev, Adetokunbo, Gobert, Shroeder, Saric, Bennett, Jean-Charles, Nogueira... Plenty of intriguing prospects. I have a feeling that some of them will be very good, and one or two might end up as stars. But, not all as at least half of them have high bust potential, so picking the right one will be key.

jsmoove reply to Cin on May 28 at 17:23

you found four listed guys to rank under the 'next wesley johnson' otto porter but you still want the sixers to take the 'next wesley johnson' if the above ranked six guys are gone??? something seems amiss esp if your gonna label him with that predictor

In response to you and Charlie H, he's worth drafting more than the guys that are below him. Wesley Johnson would have been good but all reports are he became complacent once he got paid. Porter seems to have a better head on his shoulder, but I have him much lower than most people. If he doesn't adapt to the NBA, I think a less athletic, higher IQ Wesley Johnson is his "floor."

Charlie H reply to Cin on May 28 at 17:23

This is specifically for the Sixers? Why would you want them to pick a bust, if that's what Porter is going to be? He shouldn't even be on your list. Or are the guys below him all busts too?

I spoke with a buddy who's an assistant GM with an eastern conference team, and has ties to the sixers. he told me that there's no way in hell the sixers sign Bynum. who knows. take it for what it's worth.

Unless he actually works for the sixers, not sure he has any more credibility than everyone else whose been writing the same thing for weeks

Well, number 2 on my lit of best coaching options for the Sixers - Mike Malone, is probably headed to the Kings. The Kings new majority owner, was a part owner of the Warriors previously, so this was probably planned a while ago.

Anyway, if the Sixers do indeed focus on gathering assets and player development next season, instead of winning, i seriously doubt they can land one of the bigger names. We can see what happens to the teams locked to be among the worst next season. They are getting second tier guys such as Hornacek (Suns) and Clifford (Bobcats/Hornets). Does that mean a guy like McKie for the Sixers? Does Chris Finch from Houston fit the bill?

This is funny:

Hollinger, who is now part of the Grizzlies front office was the only "expert" to pick the Spurs to win the West going into the season.

What's even funnier is that 25 of the "experts" picked the Lakers...


Maybe it's just me but NBA writers seem to be the slowest to 'accept' when a guy is beyond his peak - like a Steve Nash - or to comprehend that injuries take time to recover from.

I don't think Dwight was 100% until at least mid season - if by then...speaking of 'don't pay him a max' contract - simmons wrote something on grantland about it

I also think Howard couldn't really deal with the pressure and what Kobe and the Lakers expected of him. He simply doesn't have the mentality or IQ of a star, but his physical profile and lack of quality at his position is what made him one. I think he'll be much better in Houston or Dallas. Atlanta might be a problem again as he is from there and all the attention will be on him.

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 17:27

Simmons, man, so insightful on who you should and shouldn't sign to a max contract. The part where he compared signing him to how an actor feels when he runs into Lindsey Lohan at a bar at 2 am (dated pop culture reference alert!) really convinced me.

@ajchawks The Hawks have hired Mike Budenholzer as head coach. #ATLHawks

damn wanted the sixers to take a look at hiring him

And there goes my number 1 guy...

For all the hate Denny Ferry got when he was rumored to be the new GM of the Sixers, he has done a lot of things right IMO.

Chad Ford has a new mock draft up and brian will be pleased to know that instead of taking a '7 foot' white guy form indiana he has the sixers taking a '7 foot' white guy from croatia instead

Kentavious is at 13
Adams has 'vaulted' on his mock from 23 to 12 (never trust the combine risers)
Shabazz down to 14 (from 11)

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 18:27

And where does he have Zeller going? Saric looks rather gaunt ... and what's that crud on his upper lip? Does he wear braces or is that a grill?



Sounds awesome

Tray reply to Brian on May 28 at 22:38

Next Magic Johnson. On Mars.

He changed his big board not the mock. He doesn't actually think the Sixers will draft Saric, just that he is 11th on his board.

Interestingly, there is very little info anywhere about who the sixers might target.

there's no reliable information anywhere about who any team will draft - everyone is blowing smoke and using writers

I see things like this as mocks because (as aforementioned) Ford is used more than a drunk AEPhi girl on a Saturday night in Santa Barbara leading up to the draft - if the 'big board' is the order of 'bpa' - you can really only assume teams are going to draft the BPA unless they come out and explicitly say 'we're drafting x'

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 22:37

With analogies like that, you can be the next Bill Simmons. I don't agree, however, that you can really assume Ford's big board very closely resembles the draft order, even if the draft were held today. Keep in mind that different teams have different ideas of who the BPA is at any given spot and Ford's big board is just a sort of average of GM's preferences. Also, it's not like any GM is sitting down with Ford this early and giving him information that's as specific as "so and so is 11th on our board, someone else is 12th," etc. I think right now he just is hearing that teams like someone less because of what they saw at the combine, and they like someone else a lot more than they used to, etc.

Oh wow refs - you wanna feed the conspiracy people about the Heat - that horrible 24 second violation call ain't gonna help ya

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 0:33

Seems like the only conspiracy theories coming out of this game will be that the league wants the series to go 6 or 7, or that Joey Crawford just wants more per diem money.

Indy has pretty much outplayed Miami in 3 of 4 games. this is pretty amazing.

That's because it's all about matchups in the NBA. And they are a very tough matchup for the Heat. I still think the Heat will win though.

Mike reply to Xsago on May 29 at 10:35

same, i think they probably win the next 2. but i'm still really impressed with Indiana, particularly Hibbert.

I wonder if the Heat Pacers series will 'increase' the market for Bynum at all. There are always those teams that ignore health concerns and only look at what a player does when he plays, and Bynum is a big man with offensive skill who could shred the heat in the playoffs.

yep. that's pretty much all I've been thinking about. Hibbert isn't even a good offensive big man and he's shredding them. They'd have absolutely no answer for Bynum.

Sometimes I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic (and as I typed this I think I just felt a small tremor of an earthquake - weird) so I'm not sure how to respond but the Pacers are benefiting from the mismatch with Hibbert, but with West as well...I don't think Hibbert alone would be as advantageous to the Pacers.

Hibbert also is an alright defender - not sure how Bynum would be on the defensive end, but in a 'copycat' league like the NBA - I think Bynum (and his agent) are loving this series.

West really hasn't done a whole lot in the time I've watched. LeBron pretty much takes him out of it.

And no, I wasn't being sarcastic.

West made some nice plays last night that I recall (one of those offensive fouls called on Lebron in the fourth was 'induced' (in my opinion) by West.

And yes - crap - that was an earth quake...i hate earthquakes

Mike reply to Brian on May 29 at 10:48

West has been cleaning up on the boards though. they also sent him a couple times to double Lebron last night which they had been avoiding up until this point

The size definitely hurts on the glass, but I'm not sure that has as much to do w/ West being in there as it does with Bosh rebounding like a guard.

Hibbert's defense is big, and the fact that MIA plays Ray Allen and Battier at all times allows West to guard smaller, that helps too.

I do think Miami would have no answer for Bynum and if you put him out there w/ some shooters and a penetrator, they'd be in trouble.

So - the sixers need to re-sign Bynum, and find some shooters and penetrators then?:)

Re-sign Bynum and Wright. Ship out Hawes and Turner for another shooter. That would be a decent start.

Ship out Hawes and Turner for another shooter.

What kind of 'shooter' (and what kind of contract) do you think the sixers are getting back for that package. Keep in mind I don't think they can trade their first round pick until 2018 or something crazy like that?

A risky one. Like Gordon or Granger, most likely.

I was thinking that it would be almost certain that the pacers would look to move Granger this off season, but he only has one more year on his contract and if the pacers wanna 'keep the band together' they're going to have to pay west this offseason, george and stephenson next off season - but thank god thay have ian mahini locked up until 15/16 (who the hell pays that guy 4 mil per for four years, wtf?)

There was a time when analytics guys around the league went gung-ho about Mahinmi and they drove his price up. He is a poster child of why you can't use stats without enough context.

Eric Gordon's contract truly is terrible - I have no idea why New Orelans matched it

I can get behind that. But what's the backup plan if Bynum can't play, at least not long enough to matter? Or what happens if he can play but is not the same guy he used to be (remember Brand)?

Chronic (yet not career threatening) 'injuries' for Thad and Jrue and a top 3 pick in a draft that's got '2003 hype' already :)

I don't think you can both sign Bynum AND tank if he can't play. He probably will play next year. The question is how many games can he actually play and will he be dominant. The most likely scenario is that he will miss 20-30 games and he will need time to get to a high level. That pretty much spells 40 wins. Not to mention, it makes sense to sign good players that fit with Bynum this summer if you are going that route and as a result win more games and kill your cap space.

The smart way to go is creating a plan and sticking to it. If it's tanking, than tank. If it's signing Bynum, than try to make the supporting cast as good as possible and focus on getting him healthy.

Don't think Bynum would be the same story as Brand, even if diminished physically. If he can get on the floor, he's still the biggest guy out there w/ great touch. Brand was undersized w/ no lift.

Mike reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 10:38

it's a great point and something i've also thought about. you have to consider it when you see Hibbert dominating like he has been this series. he didn't even have a great regular season and he's significantly less skilled offensively than Bynum (Hibbert is obv the better defender & rim protector).

And since I'm not good enough with video or X's and O's (nor have I been watching THAT closely - last night was the first game I had on beginning to end - didn't pay attention to all of it but it was on at least :) - I can't say which is more important to the Pacer's competitiveness, Hibbert's offense or Hibbert's defense.

Not for nothing, but that 3 at the end of the third by Stephenson(?) how the hell does he put that in?

Mike reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 10:45

I'd say both. most baskets he's getting are either off offensive rebounds or just dump ins where he uses his body to shield defenders. Pacers are good at getting him the ball up high where no one on the Heat can do anything about it and all he has to do is lay it in.

defensively him just being there is obviously in Miami's head. it's been talked about a lot how Lebron basically added that floater to his game just for guys like Hibbert.

I wonder if anyone else is beginning to question what Hinkie is doing as coaching vacancies are being filled, and the sixers have yet to interview anyone...does it bother anyone...do you think maybe they're waiting until they work out their draft board (supposedly they're starting workouts next week) or maybe waiting for someone still in the playoffs?

ATL didn't wait for the Spurs to get knocked out, though. My guess is it's going to be Shaw, for no good reason.

Pretty "hot" name - I wonder if maybe Hinkie is running into his first conflict with ownership regarding the budget for a coach while they still have to pay Collins...I can see wanting your front office set up first, but come on, you can still take some preliminary interviews at the same time...

Didn't I read he was meeting w/ Shaw during the lottery? Or was that just a rumor/made up headline?

Lots of reports that he missed the lottery to meet with Shaw, yes, but haven't seen any confirmations about it.

Be curious to know what Shaw does and doesn't do in Indiana

Could be you're right, Shaw's the guy and they're waiting until Miami eliminates Indiana

I think it's going to be Finch from the Rockets coaching staff. I think Hinkie probably considers him a done deal and is focusing on setting up a complete front office instead. I mean right now it's Hinkie and... who else? Will the scouts remain? Are there any assistants, video analysts or whatever that will still be there. The only one that appears to still be there is Barzilai and he is not a management kind of guy.

I also think the top coaching targets rejected them because they have better opportunities. I'm getting a feeling the Sixers are going into major rebuild/tank mode and the coaches that have a choice always run away from those kind of situations. Not that, tanking would be a bad idea all things considered.

I don't think that the Sixers are being rejected. Jrue is signed for four more years and is only 23. Thad is signed for three more years and is only 25. Richardson is the only bad contract but otherwise there's good flexibility. More so these things are enticing to a GM, but when one is being hired alongside a coach, the prospective coach knows his feedback will count

Brians favorite player might be trade bait leading up to the draft, he's tall, with a very high ceiling but he seems to have the mental agility of a lawyer

of whom do you speak?

Well he ain't my cousin, he probably ain't yours - but he is Demarcus Cousins :)

Yeah, I don't think pairing him w/ Irving is a good idea. hope they pull the trigger.

Afflalo is another name for the earlier conversation about a shooter for Hawes/Turner.

Cavs Mavs and Bobcats rumored to be in on cousins

For PURE entertainment value (though I don't believe Cousin is a lost cause like you do) I hope someone drops a note that the sixers are sniffing around cousins too

My well for indignation is running pretty dry these days. That might be enough to distract me from more important matters, though.

That's the hope - I mean seriously - the only thing that matters to me this off season is that the sixers make moves that rekindle your interest and fervor for the team - even if they're terrible moves :)

Seriously though - if you also decided to shut it down and focus on the kids and such I wouldn't blame you one bit either :)

Yeah, well I'm not putting too much time into it right now, which kind of sucks. I think my view on signing Bynum is either (a) they're good quickly so I can get back into it or (b) he's hurt and I can completely ignore them for a couple of years. I'm a selfish prick.

Well in your defense, they aren't really doing anything, the post mortems are done, free agency hasn't started, hell they haven't even had draft visits yet - there's really not much to say :)

You know the problem is that you're forgetting C - he's going to play if they re-sign him - he's going to miss games - but when he plays they're going to look good for 20-30 games in a row and he's going to rope you in to paying just enough attention to get aggravated when he gets hurt :)

I'd kill for 60 games + playoffs. take 22 off every year, go bowling, do some dancing, whatever. Just give me 60+ playoffs.

Court_visioN reply to Brian on May 29 at 15:00

Something interesting in Phil Jackson's new book... he says when he first scouted Bynum the one reservation he had with him was his running gait - he predicted that he would have serious knee problems in the future.

Might have been a factor on why LA traded Bynum in the first place.

No honor or pleasure in competing with a massive clown like Bynum. Don't care how many wins he'd help notch. He cooked his goose here.

Court_visioN reply to Dollar Bill on May 29 at 16:18

Sort of related: goose meat is pretty damn delicious.

Be pretty hard to top tea smoked duck - damn that' good

Good for migration chili.

Is it your contention he wasn't really hurt, but malingering and collecting a check, or he didn't rehab effectively, or you just don't like his personality? Not winnerish enough for you?

Less than 1/3 of the NBA teams won't go to the Las Vegas Summer League this year

Thank god the sixers are saving that cash

Did they officially say they weren't going?

Just announced today - the hoopshype rumors page had some twitter posts

Jody Genessy: Jazz among nine teams that won't be in Las Vegas summer league. Other rebels: Celtics, Pistons, Rockets, Pacers, Nets, Thunder, Magic, 76ers Twitter @DJJazzyJody

I haven't checked the history - I wonder if the rockets skip it consistently - maybe they don't value the summer league?

The 76ers announced a week ago that they are going to Orlando with 10 other teams or so. There's really no point in attending both.

I disagree with you - there's a point when you're as bad as the sixers to look at as much talent in a game situation as you can - and there's more competition in Vegas - so there's a lot of reasons to go I can see - hell - at least this year the sixers will have their own team - so I guess that's a step in the right direction

Except Orlando and Houston overlap by a day and it would be extremely difficult for the players as most of them are not used to playing 15 games in 20 days. Last year only one team attended both i think. This year there may not be any. And we don't even truly know the value of summer league.

This not a big deal.

Las Vegas not Houston.

Court_visioN reply to Xsago on May 30 at 11:32

Also I would imagine the media coverage of the Vegas summer league is more extensive, and it would be easier to scout those players remotely as opposed to the guys in the Orlando league

Still haven't forgotten that Sixers-Nets joint team with those cruddy announcers. "Jay-rue Holiday"... honestly.

This is true, but i don't understand how better media coverage helps the players playing in the game. I'd even say better media coverage means easier to scout players on other teams, which would in theory benefit the Sixers.

Anyway, it would be great if they played in both, but i'm not sure it's logistically feasible as both summer league camps overlap for a day or two.

Court_visioN reply to Xsago on May 30 at 11:50

Oh that's what I meant. It'd be easier to scout other teams because of the media coverage... as long as the level of competition is similar it would probably be more beneficial to pick the Orlando league (assuming you only had enough money budgeted to go to one of them)

The biggest issue with tanking is that there isn't a coherent plan that works. Similar to what Brian said that other teams paths to the top were not "repeatable".

if we are going to truly tank the plan would need to include trades and our team would stink. Is it really worth stinking for 1 good prospect. Like someone else said, even if we got so lucky to get a star we might end up with a team like chris paul had in new orleans.

Cleveland has just been super lucky to land all these top picks and they still stink too. did they even try to tank last year? Or do they just stink? I mean realistically if u are a smart organization and want to rebuild you could go that route, but it will probably take a few years just to get 1 solid prospect, and when you do get a solid prospect then you become mediocre again and cant tank so easily in the next year. It's a really hard path in my opinion. Tanking aint easy at all.

On the other hand trading for picks and bulding through the draft makes sense sometimes. But the focus should be on bulding a winning club in a short amount of time, no waiting around with bad coaches and bad players to try to land the next lebron, because the odds just arent there. Like the real lottery you cant just look at a thousand winners and conclude that buying lottery tickets is a great way to win, because that misses the big picture. The chance of succeeding by trying to lose is higher than that, but still a really tough route. You cant just throw 1 good pick on a bad team and expect the team to be revitalized. It doesnt work that way.

Like i said given our teams incredible misfortune of talent and contracts, i could support a complete rebuild if bynum isnt healthy. im fine with 1 year of mediocre prospecta if this draft is really that great.

As far as trades go i dont think we'd get much for anyone we have. I don't see upside in anyone except turner and maybe jrue. Thad seems to be leveling out as a result of bad coaches, and lavoy/moultrie just dont look that great. For now I'm just hoping hinkie knows what hes doing, that he'll find a good coach and replace these busted vets for guys who want to win. Thats the real formula is team chemistry and guys who want to win and with smart draft choices. Lakera got kobe with the 14th pick, bynum with the 10th pick, pau gasol through strange trade. Spurs got parker with the 28th pick. In other words, there's a big picture with many objectives. Good coaches like larry brown. Smart trades like when we brought in mutumbo to defend shaq. Theres no simple formula, including tanking.

ESPN's daily '5 on 5' did some draft questions today

Who is being most underestimated was one of the questions, two said Zeller, ford said Kentavious

Projects include Adams Gobert and Len

Adams also got 2 votes as 'most upside but in need of most polish

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 29 at 23:09

Do you really have to read these insider articles and then post the only parts that agree with you? For all we know the three who didn't vote Zeller in most underestimated voted him in the most likely to bust category.

We all know that Boston is going to tank next year. They're in a perfect position to do so. Paul Pierce already said he's going to get traded or released, KG will most likely retire because of that, and Rondo probably won't play next season.

I wonder how many minutes Kwame would play if he was on the Heat.

If Bynum and Rose come back healthy next season, where do you think the Sixers would rank among Miami, New York, Chicago and Indiana?

Just current team plus Bynum? If he's healthy for 82 games, probably about the same level as Indy and New York in the regular season. Miami and Chicago are a clear rung above. Knicks, Sixers, Pacers all somewhere close to 50 wins if they all stay healthy all year. Sixers probably at the bottom of those three, though.

That's a lot of assumptions, though.

Well, it starts with the assumption that 'we all know' that Boston is going to tank...and unless they buy out pierce, knee cap Rondo and trade Garnett that's unlikely as well

don't think boston tanking is really a needed piece of the argument. They aren't in the top four/five of the East even if they don't tank.

I think the sixers are at best fourth in the discussion of 'healthy bynum' and same roster. They are not in the same class as Indiana. Indiana right now is better than the sixers (at full strength) and they're 'missing' Granger (an argument could be made they are better without him though)

Indiana is a well built team - if they can keep it together and stay healthy I honestly think even with Derek Rose healthy that Indiana is the #2 in the east going forward

As is. I don't think NYK, Chicago, or Miami can do much to improve their team next year. Those are pretty big assumptions but it would make a pretty decent Eastern Conference.

ESPN Insider published Thad's name in a possible move for CLE's pick. Doubt we have the other assets to get it done, but interesting nonetheless.

Really? What article is that? What did they say?

If it's Thad for #1, you have to think long and hard about that trade. But if it's #11 + Thad for #1, i honestly probably wouldn't do it. The difference between #11 and #1 in this draft in not that big.

Also it wouldn't work straight up, so the other pieces involved are important as well.

It's not an article - it's in the rumors section of ESPN Insider, feeding off the Chad Ford report about Cleveland shopping the #1 Joe Kaiser lists some names with the premise

This is only speculation, but here are some other players who could be come up in trade talks for Cleveland's No. 1 pick:

Lists Young, Ilyasova, Zach Randolph, and Luol Deng

If you're trading thaddeus Young, you're doing it for tanking purposes, having the #1 pick in this draft and drafting a big man who might not play at all next season is a pretty strong 'pro' tanking move.

I agree that if you are trading Thad for a pick, they are going to tank. However, i'm just fairly low on the talent level in this draft. I'd keep Thad for later when you can package him and another young prospect and/or picks for a star or keep him as part of a contender core if you can get a star in any other way.

If they can get a pick for Hawes and Turner, great, but i wouldn't jump on trading Thad right away.

See - in my opinion you just vastly over rated Thad and Hawes and Turner all at the same time.

How did i overrate Hawes and Turner? I just said if they can get a pick for them great. If not, no biggie. That's bordering on no value.

And you vastly underrate Thad for years. I can't even understand why as every statistical analysis suggests otherwise. Smarter experts than us around the league like him. Zach Lowe for example, this year, mentioned him as a borderline allstar, listing him among the 5-6 snubs in the East. We can agree to disagree about him. He is a top 50 player on the league.

Hawes or Turner getting a protected second round pick (protected through #55) would be impressive, so thinking you can get any kind of first round pick for them is kind of over rating them as the team trading for them must take on their salaries (which they are not worth)

Discussing Thaddeus is pointless - I think he's vastly over rated - you don't - others don't - whatever...he's a tweener with holes in his game with no upside left...don't see that as very valuable

There is a huge difference between Nerlens Noel and Kelly Olynyk IMO. I would make the trade if they were drafting Noel or McLemore even though I don't think either one of them will be a top 15 NBA player.

I don't think any player in this draft will be a top 25 player actually, not just top 15. And Olynyk is not going to get drafted that high. He and Plumlee have been falling for a month now (and for a good reason). I wouldn't be surprised if they were late first rounders on draft night. In reality you are talking about the difference between Noel and Len/Zeller/Adams/Gobert. I don't think the difference is worth Thad.

What do you think about this guy Gobert for the Sixers pick? Does he have any skills at all or just the crazy measurements? I haven't seen much on the Euro players.

I understand the appeal. He does understand defensive fundamentals (rebounding, post defense, P&R...) and can be a great shot blocker. He is even a pretty good finisher in the P&R. In many ways he is similar to Noel actually. They also have the same weakness in a way. Not enough strength. And in Gobert's case that's a major issue. He is fairly soft and has the lower body strength of a small point guard. And i'm not even sure his frame can support adding much more. His higher body strength is fine, but if he can't develop his lower body he will not be an NBA player, as that's crucial for a center. He's also a bit old for a raw prospect (will be 21 soon), and older raw prospects don't have a good track history. I'd say he has 90-95% chance to be a bust and 5-10% chance to be a perennial DPOY candidate similar to Chandler. No middle ground, because if he does develop his lower body he will instantly have a major impact. I just think that's a very long shot. How high would you draft him? I would stay away from him at #11, but i wouldn't be mad if he did get picked.

Thanks for the info! If you were drafting would you take Adams instead of Gobert? He seems to have some defensive potential. Len probably would not last till the Sixers pick. I would just be so unhappy if they went for Olynyk or Zeller because they don't seem like centers.

Yeah, i'd take Adams ahead of Gobert. He has his fare share of issues, but it think he has far lower bust potential than Gobert with probably a similar chance to be a star.

I would love if Len fell, but i doubt that happens. I agree that Zeller and Olynyk are not centers, but i think Zeller is actually a solid prospect as a PF. Just no Olynyk and Plumlee.

If the Sixers decide not to bring back Bynum, I think that Noel would be a better player than Thad to build for the future. If they do decide to keep Bynum, I think McLemore would be a better fit for this team.

It would be a good trade for the Sixers. I'd even throw in Evan Turner :)

If your goal is to tank, Thad for the #1 pick is pretty damned good start. Only problem w/ getting the #1 pick in this draft is you're probably going to wind up tying up a bunch of cap space on a guy you might not want on your books in a couple of years at that number. I'd rather make the trade for Cleveland's unprotected #1 in next year's draft.

I wouldn't. I have a feeling that Cleveland will make moves in order to make the playoffs next year. Thad would certainly help them. And #1 even in this year's draft has to be better than #15 or worse in a good draft right?.

Cleveland has been trying to make the playoffs the past couple of years imo. Trying and doing are two different things.

Yeah, but the kid with the glasses said they were going to make the playoffs next year.

IF Varrajo(sp?) and Knight are 100% healthy the entire season - I mean - come on - the bucks were awful - the 8 seed isn't out of their reach - and that's why many think they'll want to move the #1 pick in a weaker draft (like this one) for a more established player who can help with that goal of getting the 8 seed (and losing)

Personally - I think it's stupid short term thinking - but Dan Gilbert isn't known for his genius

but would the revenue from an 8-seed one and done help the Cavs cover a certain free-agent-to-be if they make a run at him next year?

I don't believe so - and I also don't believe Lebron has any intention of returning to Cleveland, cause honestly, wouldn't you rather play in LA if you're taking a pay cut than Cleveland, that is if he decides to leave Miami, and all this 'he wants to go home' stuff just sounds made up to me...staying in miami guarantees him the most money, the only reason to leave is for a bigger market, and Cleveland ain't it...now if he leaves for the Lakers, I wouldn't be surprised.

And besides, let's say Cleveland makes the playoffs next year, and the heat are the #1 seed again (not impossible) and the heat bitch slap the cavs in four games (also not impossible) how does lebron feel about the cleveland roster after bitch slapping them - and all the boos he'd be getting...

All this hype about 2014 free agency - if you take a closer look at the unrestricted guys - it's not great after Lebron

Yeah, but a lot of people think he won't play next year (tanking bonus) and he's not as terrible as you seem to think he is - but aren't rookie contracts now only guaranteed for 3 years or so - he won't be on the books long - and while some thing 'there's no difference between 1 and 11' in this draft, to me that's a ridiculous notion as there are better players in this draft than other players - so having your pick of all of them is a benefit (and besides, yo don't have to take noel #1 anyway, i've seen arguments for otto as well)

Tray reply to Xsago on May 30 at 13:45

You know way more about this draft class than me, but I think the odds are in favor of someone surprisingly developing into a top 25 player. If you look at today's top 25 players, which I'll crudely identify for the sake of this post with total win shares, quite a few weren't thought to be likely or even plausible top 25 players when they were drafted. Besides George Hill, who's 12th in win shares this season for reasons I can't quite fathom, you've got Gasol, Parker, Ibaka, Lee, West, and Splitter. And I don't think many people were bullish on Harden when he was drafted outside of the Thunder front office. Then there are players who aren't top 25 in win shares, but who probably are top 25 players, like Hibbert.

Which is why you are playing the odds. I've made some research about past drafts and in bad drafts, there are no more than 7-8 players worth of a rotation spot on a contender and only 2-3 are good enough to be starters. There is a small chance that one of those 2-3 guys might be a top 25 player, but those are slim chances. Who knows maybe everybody is wrong and this will end up a solid draft class, but the smart money is on playing the odds. And the odds suggest, it's not gonna be pretty.

The draft won't be as bad as the 2000 draft (my god it was scary to even look at it, Turkoglu is the best player in the draft), but i've seen the draft compared to the 2006 draft because there are many players with similar quality and no real star prospects. And here's what 2006 brought the NBA: Aldridge, Gay, Roy, Rondo and Milsap. There were a few rotation level players as well like Redick, Bargnani, Lowry, Sefolosha. And that's it. The only star there is Roy and he had injury issues even before he was drafted. How many of these guys are top 25 players?

I'd compare Nerlens to Andre Drummond. I know he tore his ACL but he doesn't have a history of lingering knee issues and he's only 19 (7 years younger than Bynum). It's a risk I'd be willing to take. I'm a big fan of Thad but he does have his limitations.

If the Sixers do re-sign Bynum, who do you think would be a better fit- McLemore or Thad?

I know that little bow-tie wearing kid promised that Cleveland would make the playoffs next year, but no team except for Miami, OKC, NYK, and LAC would trade an unprotected pick in next year's draft.

I am worried that Noel has a small frame and will struggle a bit against true centers in the NBA, which is why Drummond is the better prospect. But i don't disagree that Noel might one day be a star regardless of the injury.

And i can't imagine McLemore as a core piece on a contender. Rotation guy? Maybe. But his IQ and motor are too low for him to be more than that IMO. And he might even completely bust out if too much is asked of him, which will happen when they draft him with a top 5 pick.

Rotational player is a bit harsh. I think McLemore will be better than that, i see a fringe all star player. He won't be asked to do much at first since he would be the 3rd option behind Bynum and Jrue.

I'm not sure how well Thad would fit with Bynum in comparison to McLemore.

If they do decide to move on from Bynum, I would trade Thad for the #1 overall pick. He's not a player to build around and I don't think you can get a better offer than that.

buke reply to Stan on May 30 at 16:28

Do you really think they can get the #1 overall pick for him? Thad is a known quantity, he is not an all star level player (and at this point probably never will be), and he would cost about 4.5 million per year more than the #1 pick.

I know that this year's collection of prospects isn't very well respected, but you have to think that at least one or two of them will be all stars. The team picking first has the best opportunity to get one of those. The team picking first is usually pretty bad so they have less incentive to exchange upside potential for an immediate starter with a limited ceiling.

This whole 'thad for #1' is fueled purely on the baseless speculation of an ESPN writer - but I don't think any draft is 'guaranteed' to have all star level players...i mean there will be players better than others obvious but there's no guarantee that great players are in every draft

Stan reply to buke on May 30 at 16:46

It's just speculation. I'm just saying that I would make the trade but I don't think the Cavs would do it. I'm not sure what Thad's trade value is. I don't know how you would compare him to DeMarcus Cousins (who is only 2 years younger) but apparently a lot of Cavs fans would trade the #1 for him. - http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/5/30/4379882/nba-trade-rumors-demarcus-cousins-trade-scenarios-for-the-cavaliers

UPside wise? Cousins surpasses thad by a mile - in terms of contributing to a team that's going to make the playoffs (even as an 8 seed) if that's the Cavs goal, Thaddeus Young is a better option. My opinion on Cousins has been made repeatedly....but at this point it's a severe long shot he's ever going to pan out...if the cavs are looking purely at 'who makes us better now to make the playoffs' - I think you'd choose Thaddeus Young.

I think the Cavs are just holding an open auction. They want to the super secret NBA GM's discussion forum and said 'who wants the #1 pick - make your best offer' - and I don't think Thaddeus Young will be the best offer, Thaddeus Young & 11 might not even be the best offer

Stan reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 18:36

What about Thad, #11, AND Evan Turner :)

That depends, are the sixers also taking back the worst contract the cavs have?

Stan reply to GoSixers on May 30 at 19:11

The Cavs really don't have any bad contracts. Anderson Varejao who was put on IR last season because of a blood clot, has 2 years and $18.7 million left on his deal ($13 million guaranteed). They also have to pay Speights $4.5 million, but they can't trade him because he has a player option that year.

I didn't go look at it but I couldn't remember hearing about any bad contracts with Cleveland (it helps that free agents really don't want to play for you)...and if Varejao is healthy they're keeping him cause they wanna make the playoffs.

That's another team clearing cap room for 2014 - hell - maybe they want to trade down just to have less on the cap for the summer of 2014...interesting...hmmm...evan turner's contract DOES expire at the end of 2013/14, so maybe he has some value as this is one of those years that expiring contracts MAY have slightly more value than normal as people want to make runs at the free agent class (but it means taking back longer deals of not so good players maybe)

Interesting, Hinkie's first moves (if he ever makes any) are going to be very interesting

Thomas Robinson is rumored to be on the trade block so Houston can clear cap space for Dwight

Is he someone the sixers should be interested in if they had cap space to give anyone?

i liked him coming out of the draft, but dont know what they can trade to help the rockets cap situation

My guess is the Rockets would want to keep Asik and Lin to make a run with Howard and then trade them as expiring contracts next season. That being said, the only other players they have under contract outside of their core are Royce White, Donatas Motiejunas, and Terrence Jones. They would have to trade Robinson and probably one or two of those guys to afford Howard, and clearly take nothing back now or in the draft. With all of that in mind, I think the best offer the Sixers could make is the 11th pick plus whatever the return pick would be from a third team taking on Thad. I would rather try for the 11th pick and Thad for a shot at Noel, Bennet, or McLemore.

You don't think Asik becomes expendable if they get Dwight? I mean, you can't play them together. I guess you could, but neither is a four. I'd think they'd be happy to move him, and would probably like to use that money on a guy who can start with Dwight.

I do think Asik will become expendable if they land Dwight, but not before that.

Asik for T.Young is one interesting trade that will probably benefit both teams, even though i'm not a fan of the fact that Asik is not really locked up long term (like Young) and might be overpaid when he hits free agency.

Why pay another big between the MLE and vets minimum when Asik can fill in for 15-18 min for $5.5M?

Asik is making $8.3M. The problem I see w/ Houston's salary structure is they can basically invest in four key players if they get Howard. They've got Howard and Harden on max contracts and currently they have Lin and Asik at $8.3M and change. Do you really want that fourth significant investment to be in a big off the bench?

I didn't realize the Rockets used a loophole for averaging the cap hit. No, at $8M he would be as good as gone.

Not a fan of Thomas Robinson. Wasn't a fan during draft time, not a fan now. He is relatively small for a PF, can't finish inside and doesn't really have skills to compensate for it. He is practically becoming a backup live body coming off the bench. The only real skill he has is rebounding. He might be useful on a contender where they can develop him into a 10-15 minute backup, but i don't think he is worth his salary on the sixers.

Now i know that it's wrong to judge a guy after only one year, but he is not that young, he's 22 already and he doesn't really look very promising. He needs to improve everything. And that's not gonna happen.

That being said if he comes in a package together with one of the promising young guys the Rockets have i.e. Motiejunas or Jones, than you gotta think about it. Just don't lose more future draft picks over it.

@WojYahooNBA 30s
Golden State's Mike Malone has reached an agreement in principle on a four-year deal to coach the Sacramento Kings, sources tell Y! Sports.

Just as an illustration of how bad Thomas Robinson has been in his rookie season, this is a list of every 6-9 and taller player, aged between 21 and 23 (T-Rob was 21 when he was drafted) in the last 20 years that recorded negative win shares.

Of all of them i count only a few that amounted to anything in the NBA: Ben Wallace, Shawn Bradley, Rasho Nesterovic. That's it. In 20 years. Technically Corey Brewer too, but he is not a big man. Maybe you can add Byron Mullens and Earl Clark to the list, but they haven't really done much so far, other than getting some playing time on bad teams, and i'd say the odds are against them that they ever will.

3.5 million for a player like that is way too much. He is a raw athlete with almost no skills. And at 22 the ship has probably sailed considering how much he needs to improve.

I forgot the link, here it is:


I gotta say, this Clippers and Grizzlies things are just fascinating to me. Two organizations that should have things really going their way, pretty easily, and yet they still seem in chaos...the clippers have internal strife and their free agent super star being upset and the grizz after their best season ever are probably losing one of if not both the coach and GM

Well, the Clippers are the Clippers, what did you expect of Sterling and co. ? :)

As for the Grizzlies, i think they are one of the more interesting stories this offseason. I think it's in their own best interest to change the GM, the coach and trade Zach Randolph so they can have a clear picture of what they want to do long term. In their case, it's about winning not clouding their judgement on the true value of the team and organization IMO.

Greg reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 12:04

I haven't seen much news on the clippers internal issues. Would you explain to me what he's upset about?

Chris Paul is upset because both the owner and the ex coach have implied pretty clearly without explicitly saying it that "Chris Paul got Vinny Del Negro fired"...whether that's true or not - you don't go public with stuff like that, especially as an owner who hopes to sign him as a free agent. In fact other 'sources' now claim Paul stayed out of it - he wanted no say on whether or not Del Negro gets fired.

Interestingly, one of the rumored names for the Clippers head coaching job is Byron Scott, who supposedly had a rather contentious relationship with Chris Paul previously.

Donald Sterling is an awful human being, he's a racist, a misogynist, a slum lord, an utter and complete douche, but he's a good business man and the fact that he doesn't realize he has the opportunity to put a stranglehold on the very rabid LA Basketball fan base (which will bale (bail?) on the lakers the moment they sink into obscurity) for a long time to come - to make his team the 'talk' of the town and get all that lovely tv money (the amount of money the lakers got for their TV channel is obnoxious) is shocking because these are bad BUSINESS moves...

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 12:26

He has no such opportunity. The Lakers will always be the fan favorite and will always be good, somehow or another.

Sounds like you're not going to Donald's cookout this weekend. He could be arranging top tea smoked duck, your favorite waterfowl dish.

Greg reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 13:46

Reminds me of what happened with dwight in orlando.i wonder how seriously he will consider leaving the team.

Guess it depends on where else he can get a good contract and win - if money is the primary focus - then he's not leaving the clippers, unless maybe Dallas figures out how to max him out - California State tax sucks rotten eggs...that no tax thing makes the 'texas max' worth more than other teams obviously (florida i believe also has no state taxes)

I haven't read anything that implies that if the Rockets 'whiff' on Dwight they would shift the focus to Paul, so what options does Chris Paul have to play with good players and still get the 'free agency' max or close to it?

Sure - I mean if he said 'hey i'll take the mle' every team in the league that could make a run at him would - but that's not going to happen - so most of the real contenders aren't players for him

Stan reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 14:06

How is the tax code like in Georgia? Maybe the Hawks can sign both CP3 and Howard to max deals and have them build a championship team with Horford.

I just have a hard time seeing Atlanta do that, even if there were interest from Howard and Paul (for what it's worth, with all the 'interest' Dwight Howard has publicly made to teams in the past few years, Atlanta has never been publicly in the mix). The hawks only have 3 guaranteed players for next season...good lord they have some cap room - I doubt they can get them both - but they positioned themselves well :)

Well, the salary cap is unknown yet, and last i read it's gonna be a little lower than previously reported, but last time i checked, i think it is very realistic that:

- Atlanta will be able to make the sufficient moves to put itself in a position to go after both Paul and Howard
- Houston will be able to offer the max to Howard
- Dallas will be able to offer the max to Howard or Paul. With some maneuvering they might even be able to offer something close to the max to both Paul and Howard (they'd have to keep only Nowitzki though).

Everyone else is an afterthought in free agency IMO. They will wait to see what happens with these teams first.

Dallas needs to find a taker for Shawn Marion if they want to offer a max I believe

Dallas can offer one max without any moves. Houston needs to make a minor move.

That's great (even though you're wrong), but Dallas doesn't have any young talent to pair with Dwight. I think it's fun for Dallas to try and create cap room but I can't see Chris Paul or Dwight Howard signing there for less money than they can get from LA because it does not put them in a good position to win long term since you got dirk and squadoosh

Schroeder reportedly has a first round promise from the Celtics...

Take him at 11.

Obviously you do your own due diligence, but Boston has a track record of solid scouting in the late first. Rondo and Bradley were both great values. That should boost Schroeder's stock, if its true.

The sixers have a 'track record' of solid scouting as well (though if it was DiLeo - who knows what they have now). I don't think the Celtics promising a guy anything makes him more interesting to draft - hell could just be another bait and switch to try and get someone else to take him so somone else falls.

I still say there's enough 'equal' talent at #11 that taking a back up at the one position where you're mostly set makes no sense

Who says he's be a backup? Might be a replacement that allows you to move Jrue, or a guy who can play next to Jrue.

Stan reply to Brian on May 31 at 13:33

Move Jrue? As in trade him? Shut yo' mouth.

If you're tanking you move Jrue while he's considered an all-star - on a 'decent' contract - absolutely

I like Shroeder. He is probably worth the #11 pick. I am pro taking best player available, but he would be a fairly bad fit if he indeed is the best player available. But even if he ends up a backup he might have value later in a trade (like Bledsoe, who is incredibly overrated btw).

Backup PG is a bigger need than soft PF off the bench IMO.

Especially true when your starting point is more of a combo guard. Schroeder can pass, shoot, defend, and adds an element of speed that has been sorely lacking in the backcourt. Also, he's one of the rare euro's whose game is tailor-made for the NBA without much adjustment.

I'm going by the general assumption that PG is the only position set on the team long term. Backup PG or backup PF should not even be discussed at this point. It's not like the Sixers are a contender to think about backup roles.

Anyway, all of that entirely depends on who is left on the board. If you have prospects rated equally, you go for need. If not, you go for best player available.

P.S. FWIW, i have Shroeder and Zeller (who i would assume you were alluding to with the "soft PF" remark) rated equally. I guess by the "backup fit" logic, you can make the case about drafting Shroeder ahead of Zeller.

I try not to look at it by the rigidity of starting position, 1-5, but rather how someone's role will improve the team. Backup point is a term that only serves to pigeon-hole and doesn't convey worth outside of a depth chart.

That's wonderful - however you want to word it - the sixers have massive needs more important than Schroder making the 'back court depth' (does that phrasology work better for you) when their front court is an absolute disaster.

I think Brian is overly down on the big men in this draft, and I think part of it is "Hawes fatigue"...there's a lot of 'similarly valued' players in this draft that will be available at 11 that fill bigger holes than Schroeder will.

However you want to word that - that's fine - but since you're talking about a team that only has two players really worth keeping, take the guy who fills the biggest hole all things being equal - Schroder doesn't fill the biggest hole based on who else is projected to be available at the same time

Rich reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 17:21

If all things are equal, then you take the big guy over Schroeder. If Schroeder is the best player, then the fact that they really only have two keepers fits into the logic of taking him. The overall talent needs to be upgraded more than anything.

It really is too bad DiLeo had to go. He's done pretty well in this spot before.

That's kind of the point I was (poorly) trying to make - all things being equal you fill the bigger hole and I think there are bigger holes than what schroder fills - but I also think there are better options in terms of BPA at 11 over Schroder compared to Brian's opinion of this draft

Rich reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 21:44

Sounds good. I've given up trying to distinguish between draft prospects at the back end of the lottery. If I had to pick, I tend to skew towards Brian's opinion because I similarly value athleticism, but hey, that's backfired on us before: See Vucevic, Nikola.

Greg reply to Rich on May 31 at 22:11

I think we could make the argument that a big with slightly less talent might be more desirable than a guard with slightly higher talent. A basic analogy would be QBs in the NFL draft. They go higher than their actual talent or potential because the position is so important. Id say franchise big men are similarly hard to find in the NBA right. If we can get a big of "similar" potential as GoSixers said (even if not entirely equal) I'd rather take the big.

Rich reply to Greg on May 31 at 22:57

There probably isn't a franchise big man at the top of the draft, much less at the 11th pick. That's the main reason you take the best player available, because this is a bad draft and getting a contributor on a good team at 11 will probably be thought of as a great pick. The Sixers currently have two players who could realistically get meaningful minutes on a good team, a guard and a forward. The number one goal should be to make that number three, at whatever position.

I don't really buy the QB analogy. There's not a position in basketball within the same stratosphere of importance as quarterback in football. In hoops if you're good, you're good, and will find a way to effect the game.

Again though, if the top two players available have similar talent and potential, by all means I'm down with going big.

Greg reply to Rich on May 31 at 23:46

The exact talent level (franchise talent or not) is irrelevent to my point. Even just getting a solid starting big man is tough. Look at all the guys that come through the NBA and how hard it is to find guys who can play there, blocking shots down low or being one of the teams top scoring threats. I believe that position is very weak in the nba right now and a solid player at that position would help a team much more than a comparable talented guard. Not just franchise-level talent but even just solid starter talent.

Based on your last comment though it sounds like we agree. If you say the talent and potential are "similar", then i agree. If you are saying they need to be "equal" then i dont agree. I wouldn't drop down to take a much worse prospect just to fill a need. I'm a big fan of best player available drafting, but quality bigs are so hard to get that (even just looking for solid starters) i do believe they should go slightly higher per talent than guards.

By the way I agree that big men are not so important as QBs. The analogy isn't saying big men deserve as much weighting as QBs. I'm just saying the position needs -some- extra weighting because the big man position is valuable and hard to find.

Greg reply to Rich on Jun 1 at 0:50

If the NBA was filled with top centers and no ball handlers then I'd be saying the opposite.

Thad is better than Zeller or Olynyk, and neither of them can guard fives, so what hole are they filling? Gobert and, to a lesser extent, Adams could have arguements made for them

And I don't disagree with the "all things being equal" arguement, but I'm also not speaking vaguely or in general for it to be applicable.

Thad is better NOW than Zeller and Olynyk - but you're comparing apples and oranges - the thad who plays for the sixers now is not the Thad who was drafted by the sixers.

I've already conceded that Zller isn't an NBA 5 - I'm not sure what his ability to guard the 5 has to do with anything, Thad can't guard 5's, and there's a lot of 4's he can't guard either.

Zeller has a more refined offensive game now than Thad had when he came into the league, he also has range Thad still hasn't established, as I said a few times, I see him as a stretch four in the NBA - never said he was a five

you can't compare a guy near the end of his second NBA contract to a guy coming out of college - that's just an unfair comparison - Thad has had longer to work on his game (and yet still doesn't have the shooting range that zeller is demonstrating now, thad didn't even have it in workouts, that he wasn't allowed to use at Indiana).

Thad is a fine player - and yeah - at this point he's a better NBA player than either name you mentioned - yet he's also been in the NBA a bit longer than they have - when he was a rookie - he was raw and people wondered if he'd ever be a serious NBA player...so try and remember then - and copmare it to then - not now - as now isn't a fair comparison

The Thad "now," who is under contract for three more years, is who the Zeller's and Olynyk's would be competing with at the four, and since neither can slide up or down we have a veritable logjam.

Charlie H reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 17:15

I like Schroeder, from what I've read anyway. Seems to have real leadership qualities. Very fast, excellent ballhandler. He can play with Jrue. We're seeing the 2 point guard lineup more frequently these days, like Curry and Jack on GS. Don't Paul & Bledsoe play together sometimes? I think Jrue and Schroeder could be a very good defensive backcourt, if a bit undersized.

Maybe you can explain to me how it benefits a team to promise a player it'll pick him. I've never understood that. Just to keep him from working out for other teams?

Well, in this case, i'm going on memory here so I might be wrong, but I believe that the 'remove your name from the draft' date for Euro's has not even passed yet, so by making a promise to Shcroeder they make sure he stays in the draft. I think the players like promises because it means that they can eliminate some teams they are going to work out for...if the promise is to be believed than Schroder can ignore any team below the Celtics (though promises aren't worth the paper their printed on and yeah I know they aren't printed ;)

I might be wrong, but I know that I read somewhere there was at least one euro who was going to pull out of the draft unless he was given a promise which means that they can pull out later...so a promise keeps him in the draft?

Saric said he'd pull out if he doesn't have a promise in the lottery. I think Shroeder also wanted a first round promise to stay in the draft but i am less sure of it.

Charlie H reply to GoSixers on May 31 at 18:56

thanks - didn't consider the pull-out option

Masai Ujiri has accepted the Toronto GM job and Larry Drew has accepted Bucks coaching job according to woj

Rumors are that Ujiri is going to keep Dwayne Casey on and let him at least start coaching next season, so not another job opening up there

Interesting Read about a new way to look at the players on the court

Greg reply to GoSixers on Jun 1 at 14:09


I'm actually sort of a writer who doesn't publish any of my work. I have many articles/etc I've written that no one has ever read. Coincidentally, the 5 NBA positions are something I actually chose to write about.

I have for a long time questioned those 5 positions. Sometimes i wonder what a team could do with 5 point guards, e.g. if u had a team of rubio, chris paul, nash, jrue, and rondo.

I've also always hated the 5 position names. As I examined this topic, I tried to come up with better titles for the 5 current positions. e.g. the small forward position questionable name. that position could be called the specialist position. (or to take an idea from this web site we could consider calling it the swiss army knife position, or maybe just the role player position)

While trying this exercise, though, i actually came to the conclusion that the current titles make a lot of sense. The players do run around the court a lot, but they are still usually doing what the title says. e.g. The center still usually stands in the center. If you break the other titles down into parts, they work well too.

If we tried creating a new system, like using a bunch of guards, then the titles might not work as well. But you can't really predict what type of players people will put on the court.

That's what i find most interesting about the article you posted is that the guy isn't using the word "positions" in the traditional sense. He is basically using them based on possible roles a guy could play. So hockey might have 8 common positions and baseball might have 15. That's a neat idea that I really like a lot. This type of system allows you to call your positions differently at any time, based on what the players actually do on the court. then you could almost call them whatever you want, but the analysis he does is useful in seeing what people already do.

"I try not to look at it by the rigidity of starting position, 1-5, but rather how someone's role will improve the team."

So basically, draft Schroeder.

(Disclaimet: this is just an obligatory post meant to instigate.)

Nouveau nomenclature.

A player is a player is a player. Run, dribble, catch, pass, shoot, defend, rebound, see, care, hustle, perform under pressure...if an individual does all 11 well, draft him expeditiously, no matter what color or shape graphic represents him on the computer printout, no matter what new tag is applied to the whole of his on-court services.

The fewer tasks a prospect has mastered, the lesser value the player brings to his spot in the retail bargain bin.

Drafting basketball players has an aspect, eventually, of a simple pinball machine: 'tilt' or 'bonus' game.

*Nouvelle nomenclature.

Let's hope it's 'bonus' this year but it looks like another weak draft.

*Je prefere mon choix de mot.

There will be 'bonus' players in the panning out imo; a few may even be unrecognized or misjudged currently by the chattering, standby herd of talent evaluators called experts, as the heart & soul of prospects is not a quick translation.

Bonne journee, monsieur!

Stan reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 1 at 22:26

How do define "well" and what players meet that criteria?

"well" - ranges from 'masterful' to 'proficient' to 'practically applicable in a winning way'; in other words, above the norm or the ordinary.

List of qualifiers for all 11 categories? Don't have time to ferret.

Greg reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 2 at 17:36

(I'll take this as a reply to the link posted by GoSixers)

Yeah i basically agree with you. That guy shouldn't have called them positions but more like 13 common "skillsets". Calling them positions is misusing the word, misleading, and might be what's causing so much debate.

However, I like the direction this is headed as an idea. instead of positions, i think what he's trying to say is that these are common roles that players have. This is sort of a new way of thinking about the positions, based on the player's roles on the court. I'm don't know how well the statistics really indicate the player's role, but it seems like an interesting direction.

Looking at how terrible this draft is, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that a 1st round pick can be acquired in exchange for Evan Turner. Would it be crazy for OKC,New Orleans, Detroit, Milwaukee or Boston to give up their first for Turner?

Boy it sure is interesting to see how MIA has trouble handling a team with a young PG, tons of outside shooting and an above average center...hmm...

hmmm somewhat interesting that Aldridge says Mo Cheeks "really impressed Detroit" but not much beyond speculation on our coach, Kelvin Sampson and "wouldn't shock me" to see them look at Quin Snyder for some reason...sure does seem like a MUCH more leak-proof front office than pre-Hinkie...

and before it completely disappears from the internet, the end of that postgame show may be the funniest one minute TNT has ever aired: http://youtu.be/JxTVkzXuqwM

Mike reply to das411 on Jun 2 at 13:56

he also broke out "No homo"


Heres an interesting article i found on kevin durant's back www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-05-22/kevin-durant-back-tattoo-misspelling-okc-thunder-oklahoma-donation-westbrook

Greg reply to Greg on Jun 2 at 17:54
Greg reply to Greg on Jun 2 at 18:08
Greg reply to Greg on Jun 2 at 18:11

Ok. Must be something wrong with my phone's browser. Just copy and paste if anyone wants to see what he has on his back

Hollins done in Memphis it seems

The NBA is a difficult place for a coach. I've never seen this many coaches having problems after 55+ winning seasons. Del Negro i out. Hollins appears to be out. And even Karl apparently has issues in Denver. It's weird.

That being said i think letting Hollins go will end up as a smart move for the GRizzlies. He is not a fit with their new analytics-heavy ways. Hollins is in many ways Doug 2.0 and he'll end up with a more old school team like Brooklyn or the Clippers.

Yeah, saw his quote. He didn't seem too surprised. I wonder where he winds up.

‏@LarryCoon 1h
Confirming @ESPNSteinLine tweet -- league's projected cap/tax for 2013-14 is currently $58.5M & $71.6M. For 2014-15 it's $62.1M & $75.7M.

I was just looking at the heat's contract situation and they already have over $75 committed. Am I right that all this means is that they can't avoid the luxury tax?

Stan reply to Greg on Jun 4 at 0:37

They could amnesty Lebron :)

It's the repeat offender tax they're worried about. As it stands, if Miami uses the amnesty on Mike Miller and chooses not to re-sign Chalmers (who has a player option), their tax rate will only be $1.5 next year. Which should be around $7.5 million.

The following year, assuming that used the amnesty on Mike Miller, they might not have to pay a tax at all if they fill out the rest of their roster with minimum salaries

It will be difficult for Miami to get around paying a lot of money on tax. I would buy back our 1st round pick if all it took was taking on Haslem's contract.

Is anyone else watching this game?

Finishing up some work, game is on in the background. LeBron should've gotten a T for hanging on the rim right there.

Meh - there were peole underneath him - they don't call that tech all that much

Roy Hibbert should learn to handle doubles better :)

Bosh is such a joke.

Man, they got caught w/ West on Wade there in semi-transition.

Greg reply to Brian on Jun 3 at 22:26

This might just be coincidence but ever since he won the shooting stars challenge i've noticed him shooting 3 pointers a lot more. I wasn't following his stats or anything, but i never really viewed his game that way.

They really give Hibbert so much latitude on his shot block attempts. It's like nothing I've seen before.

At 29-25 I went to cook dinner cause the plumber was damn late - now I sit down before the start of the third and it seems like the heat have taken control

I know it's off topic, but...


Walks would be nice - but it's nice to see him coming around after the organization messed with him the past couple years

You got that exactly wrong. NL pitchers messed with him the past couple years. He's responsible for this year's production; he was equally responsible for last few's lack.

aaaand, the Pacers are officially forgotten.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jun 4 at 5:04

They remind me a lot of the old Reggie Miller Pacers in how they managed to play a foil to the superstar champs. But the old Pacers were more entertaining.

They kind of remind me of the Pistons in the early-mid 2000s. They had a great physical starting lineup with solid chemistry and were a great defensive team. Just like the Pacers. George and Hibbert will ride team success and make some allstar games. They will be a formidable team in the next 5 years with the current core. They might even win a title one day. Indiana and Memphis are headed towards a dark horse status for the next 5 or so years as semi-contenders. And that's perfectly fine.

There goes the 2nd component of league office nightmare, a Grizz-Pacers Finals.

Didn't watch one Heat-Pacers game, on purpose.

Jesse James, Henry James, Reuben James, Po James, Chris James, Lebron James. "Home, James."

So if Miami had to choose between letting go of Wade or Bosh, who would they give up?

Bosh is younger, but they could do better w/ that money IMO. Wade is pretty irreplaceable. I doubt they let either of them go.

Wade is also almost certain to decline sharply from now on. He's actually survived much better than i thought he will in terms of injuries but i think his body is starting to show his age. And if he can't keep up with his style of play that is largely dependent on health and athleticism he is not that good. For all his shortcomings and being an unconventional big man, Bosh is still a very good player.

Well there's a lot of Heat upheaval possibly coming in the summer of 2014. Again, it'll be the summer of Lebron. If he opts out and leaves, what do the Heat do? I don't think the Heat are so worried about this off season - though they'll probably give Anderson a multi year deal. If Wade continues to get hurt he's going to be limited, but be able to step up sometimes like he did last night.

Not sure the Heat are caring about it that much right now though

If they are smart Wade. But i don't think they'd do that. Wade will accept a smaller deal and all 3 will stay put. The only small chance that the Heat's big 3 will break up, is if Lebron decides to go to Cleveland, which is unlikely but not impossible.

As surely as the grass grows at Merion today in natural anticipation of Tiger tracks, hushed greens, lime green trousers and gin & tonics with a lime wedge, Sam Hinkie, basketball analytic wonk, former Stanford University MBA whiz and newest Sixer troubleshooter, is slow as molasses in selecting a head coach. What in the Sam Hill is he waiting for? The ghost of Hank Luisetti [first college player to score 50]? Mike Montgomery? Mark Madsen? Jim Plunkett & Randy Vataha?

In news sure to enflame some and excite others, Peter Vescey (you've been warned) says the sixers are interested in trying to pursue Josh Smith...

Hope he's just joshing.

saw that.

I have to think there's an advanced defensive stat they're privy to that puts most of Atlanta's confounding success on Smith's defense.

Meh, I think it's Peter Vescey, he put one hand in the free agent sock, pulled out josh smith, the other in the 'random team with cap room' sock, and pulled out sixers, and then wrote a story.

I tend to think Vescey has as much insight to the sixers as your favorite sixerfan

There was an article regarding statistical analysis of perimeter defense in the NBA. Josh Smith was the best perimeter defender in the league according to the metrics. Iguodala was second, Allen and Conley were top 5 as well. The methodology made sense and the results were also pretty good. So there's that... I'll try to find the link.

Here it is:


The metric is a composite stat based on some of the available defensive Synergy stats (points per play), RAPM, opponents PER and block and steal percentages.

Metrics hasn't won a game yet, but he's conversation fodder.

JS skies (when he's in the mood), but he's got many cloudy games on resume.

Actually, metrics won a game last night, and a title the past two years.

Don't confuse the old people, they get very cranky, next you'll be telling him that sabremetrics actually works in baseball

That's your theory.

It's about sheer talent, abetted by chemistry and coaching competence, not wizardry. Analytic "mavens" should stick to graham crackers & cold milk.

This comment here demonstrates that you have absolutely no clue what analytics purports to do and not to do. It's a shame people like you are so close minded that you allow your ignorance and fear of anything new to cloud your view and form your opinions without being informed. Good on ya Mr Bissinger

Garbage in, garbage out.

Thanks for playing.

Hey look - the perfect definition of irony (I think)

I'm still fascinated that you can figure out this new fangled magic computer box

Proud pointyhead,
You lame; see a grind wheel.

Chemistry, like when you have players complaining they aren't getting enough touches in the middle of a series.

That's not complaining - that's just the desire to win - don't you know that - Wade just wants to win and he knows that even if he's shooting worse than Evan Turner, the Heat have the best chance to win when he gets more shots

I wasn't sure if that was chemistry or gumption. I always get those two stats confused.

Don't forget the WTW and KHTW quotients - those are very important

And there's always the cross sport 'clutch' number which you just know when you see and is immune to things like facts, and small sample size

Human chemistry involves griping, an offshoot of caring. Wade & James share same team goal of Ring. Hoss & Little Joe didn't always agree, but they maintained the Ponderosa.

griping to the press? Thought real winners and team players kept that stuff in the locker room.

Nah, that's for fogies. It's a new age; the land of Twitter, Facebook, contemporaneity (and an abundancy of inanity).

Greg reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 4 at 13:57

I agree about chemistry. To me chemistry is when you know a players not going to stop when he starts to cut back door; having parts that fit together like screwdriver needs to fit the screw; having players who are confident in their teammates to make the shot so they don't take a worse shot themselves; and also examples you gave (like guys wanting to win together with a shared goal, leading wade to accept a smaller role with his head held high).

I also like your initial summary (players, chemistry, coaching) which seems right on. makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, i do support statistical analysis. Advanced stats (as gosixers implied) are intended to help make those judgements about which players are good, etc.

I think it's just speculation based on the Rockets interest in Smith (which does make sense), Hinkie's past with the Rockets and the Sixers reported potential trade for Smith before the trade deadline (Turner+Hawes).

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 4 at 11:13

I know it's a different ownership, but they should have traded for him last year if the reported offer of Turner/Hawes was true. They could've kept Bynum and re-signed Smith. It would have worked salary wise.

A line up of: Bynum/Smith/Thad/Richardson/Jrue would be pretty good on the defensive end. I don't know how they would fare on offense.

How good is Bynum defensively, when he's healthy? Never got the impression that he was that good, but maybe that's just my impression.

The problem with the team you listed is how very very poor they would be shooting from the outside (Richardson is in decline due to age I think) so the advantage of the big man who draws the double team is hindered a bit...though if the sixers figured out how to run a pick and roll with those two athletic guys next to Jrue that could be a benefit

Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jun 4 at 11:34

Bynum had the same issues that Shaq did on the defensive end - he's lazy on the pick and roll. He is a strong post defender and he does protect the rim pretty well - that's really how he got his chance to start on the Lakers in the first place.

Wait, bad on the pick and roll? Why didn't you say so - he fits in perfectly with the sixers defensive scheme :)

Matt reply to GoSixers on Jun 4 at 12:36

The Sixers can't shoot anyway. Though Turner had a nice year from 3, I don't think that's something you worry about in a trade for a far superior player.

Ford released a new mock today - Zeller is stlll at the sixers at #11

KCP at #9 To The T'Wolves
Shabazz has slipped to #16 and the Celtics
Schroder listed at #14 to the Jazz
Guy who shouldn't be drafted so high purely because of the school he attended listed at #10 to the Blazers

Fords comments on Zeller indicate that he might slot higher if his shooting looks good at workouts and GM's believe he can transfer to a 'stretch 4' (which is what I always thought he was going to be, not an NBA 5)...says he also hears the the sixers, and the blazers at 10 might be in on saric as well (currently projected at #13 to the Mavs)

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jun 4 at 17:21

Can't wait for our stretch 4 who can't stretch the floor.

Can't wait for one of your disgruntled clients to brain you

DraftExpress released a 'scouting' video of Schroder today here

After the new cap announcement both the rockets and mavericks will need to make moves to clear 'complete max' cap room for Dwight Howard, unless for some reason Shawn Marion feels giving up 9+ million guaranteed is a good idea...contrary to the certain pronouncements made by others earlier, both teams need to make moves to clear about 3+ mil...Robinson gets the Rockets closer, but not completely there

Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 4 at 19:52

Maybe he has an agreement with Cuban that he'll opt out and take a 3 year deal worth around $15-18 million.

I'm pretty sure things like that might be considered tampering even with your own players (and honestly - that would be utterly foolish if you don't get dwight howard to be stuck with that got for 2 more seasons :)

The Spurs did that exact same thing with Richard Jefferson a couple years ago, remember? It smelled at the time, but the league didn't do anything.

The way I look at it - lots of this goes on - the NBA can't do anything without proof - Cuban has a big mouth - and wouldn't surprise me if he did do something and said the wrong thing at the wrong time (and man does he talk about shark tank too much) and get himself fined.

Even with the cap room for Howard, the mavs have the bigger problem of the talent around Howard, it would be better in Houston, in the end though, I think this is HOward talking out of his arse that led to him 'opting in' in Orlando because he wants to make everyone happy, and he's going back to LA because of the extra caish, and he wants to be 'hollywood'

Joshua Harris has been recognized as the 2013 Outstanding American by the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, joining such other noted winners as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Billy Baldwin.

Harris Wrestled two years at Penn it seems - but either he was very short or very scrany - he wrestled at 118 lbs...


He's still both short and scrawny. I'd say 5'3" maybe 5'4".

Dude - the sixers are owned by an oompa loompa? Oh my stars

So the sixers are starting their first workouts

The Sixers will work out Kentucky's Archie Goodwin, Louisville's Peyton Siva and Temple's Scootie Randall, writes Nick Menta of CSN Philly. Since the Sixers pick No. 11, they could only be looking at this trio via trade in the first or with one of their two second round selections (No. 35 and No. 42).

And in news that I hope is just made up

If Hinkie even placed a call to Brown I'll be very disappointed

The Nets, Sixers and a third team have all contacted Larry Brown about their coaching vacancies, reports Adam Zagoria of SNY, citing a source close to Brown. Reports of interest in Brown, currently the head coach at SMU, is nothing new this offseason, but this is the first we've heard that he has actually been contacted. The Clippers are the only other team, outside of Brooklyn, Philly and the Pistons, to still have an opening, but it is unclear if they are the third team. Brown has coached all four franchises.

I hope these Larry Brown rumors aren't true.

Hinkie is insane if he think hiring Larry Brown is a good idea.

I do think that story is made up btw.

As a coach w/ no personnel power? He's one of the best ever imo.

Sure - as long as he's on his medicine for his bipolar player evaluations

Greg reply to Stan on Jun 5 at 12:55

Since when is larry brown considered a bad coach? I thought he was one of the most respected coaches ever. Not only that but especially good with young/ underachieving players (as opposed to a coach that needs a lot of star power).

Depends on who you talk to - but I consider him a horrible coach because of his Napoleonic complex, and his schizophrenic approach to players and I still blame him for the disaster that he left here - I call him the rat because he saw the iceberg coming and left (with the owners blessing, which pissed me off to) - He will throw players under the bus rather than take his own blame (see the olympics) for his coaching flaws and he's ALWAYS looking for the next better job

Plus - I think the game passed him by - I mean you'd think a guy with his resume could get a good college job - not SMU

Greg reply to GoSixers on Jun 5 at 14:12

What iceberg are you referring to? I have now read the wikipedia entry on brown and sixers and have found nothing about any of this. I don't remember this either. I remember him and AI disagreed sometimes but in retrospect his last season here went pretty well, and him and ai seemed to gain a level of respect after that. I'm also not aware of any connection between brown and the sixers later trade of ai, or anything like that.

Also, why should he have to stay a long time if that's not what he does? Not to mention that he quickly won a championship with his next team, which makes his vision/choice look intelligent, imo. Not that I want him to leave but apparently that's his style everywhere he goes, because he likes new challenges and coaching up younger players. I guess after a few years he leaves because he is coaching the same players the same way and doesn't have as much to contribute. I'd rather him be the coach for a few years then not have him there at all.