DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan All Sixers, all the time DFDepressed Fan Dear Sam Hinkie, STORYCOMMENTS (465) GoSixers on Jun 27 at 23:46 Reply +/- I was wondering where you went :) I promise you that that IS his plan - plans don't always succeed - but he's doing his best to put the sixers in the best place to get great players in the draft - Pelton evaluating the trade referred to the THunder model - and I think I agree (it's sad that I agree, cause it's freaking OKLAHOMA and this is PHILADELPHIA for god's sake) You gotta have good picks at the right time - and next year is the right time. Now, it might not work, but you've got to take that shot - to have 4 lottery picks in 2 years - that's how a market contends when big name free agents won't play for you Court_visioN on Jun 27 at 23:52 Reply +/- I don't think Wolters is on the Sixers anymore. No idea what the hell is going on. Tray on Jun 27 at 23:58 Reply +/- Why'd we have to trade Ledo? He sounded like a pretty talented guy. Tray on Jun 28 at 0:03 Reply +/- So I think the 54th pick is ours? He sounds promising. http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/67166/arsalan-kazemi-the-2013-nba-drafts-ready-made-overlooked-rebounding-machine T McL on Jun 28 at 0:04 Reply +/- Brian, Had to log in just to echo your statements here. Life has me busy and I don't come on here as much as I used to - miss the great conversation but I still read when I can. Can't say it any better. Just hope this works out. I get the logic, but it doesn't mean it will work. Hope all is well. GoSixers reply to T McL on Jun 28 at 0:07 Reply +/- If you don't try - you can't succeed (or fail) which is why I like this - they're trying - bot it doesn't seem to be haphazard they seem to have a very intelligent plan to obtain a core of very good to great assets all within the same time of each other so their career arcs (something I've often worried about) will be about the same...it was either that - or re-sign Bynum and hope his knees don't break again if you really wanna even consider contending (plus taking on bad contracts for supporting cast) Tray reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 0:13 Reply +/- It's really weird to suddenly go from being one of the worst-run teams in professional sports to one of the best in one night. Dealing the league's 12th or 13th best point guard (even if he is really young, I never thought he was going to develop into anything close to a franchise talent) for the best player in the draft, a lottery pick in a stacked draft, and the assurance of total collapse the season before the best draft in 10 years is a genius move. buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 0:18 Reply +/- How do you know that he won't pick up some pretty good free agents? They now have only seven returning players next year. Even if they take three rookies on the team, they will have roster and cap space for two or three free agents. Brian reply to buke on Jun 28 at 0:25 Reply +/- Are you really that dense? The intent with this trade was to get worse this season. You're the only one on the world, with the possible exception of Evan Turner, who thinks they're better off (on the floor) without Jrue. buke reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 0:37 Reply +/- It all depends upon what else they do. You always think you can predict the future based on your emotions and you're usually wrong. I've witnessed your multiple failures. And how do you know what Turner thinks? Oh, that's right, you don't. You're just talking out of your ass like you always do. Tray reply to buke on Jun 28 at 0:40 Reply +/- I don't know exactly what Turner thinks, but every time he talks he seems like a complete imbecile. Like when he said he'd be an All-Star if he scored a couple more points a game, but we just weren't letting him do that or something. So yeah, I'd be surprised if he didn't think we're better off with him at the point. buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 0:50 Reply +/- Let's get something straight. I belong to a gang of one. Don't assume I subscribe to some other form of group think. I don't covet online friends. I agree that having Turner at the point would be a very poor choice. I wanted Jrue gone because I don't like him as a point guard, not because of anything having to do with Turner. We haven't had a real point guard since they foolishly let Andre Miller walk. Turner may not even be here next season. They might pull a sign and trade for him. Turner for a veteran point guard or a decent shooting guard or small forward would be just fine with me. Tray reply to buke on Jun 28 at 1:11 Reply +/- I was just talking about what Turner says when he talks. He's a dumb guy who massively overrates himself. So I wouldn't be surprised if he believes the team's better with Jrue on the bench. Brian reply to buke on Jun 28 at 8:11 Reply +/- Just to state this clearly, your contention is that the Sixers moved Jrue to improve the team this season, and you think further moves to improve the team this season are forthcoming. buke reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 11:25 Reply +/- That wasn't my contention at all. That was your preferred interpretation of my contention. My contention was that I don't care much for Jrue as a point guard and I would rather see some other player handle those duties in the future. To me, Jrue was just the latest in a line of homegrown players that the Sixers overvalued with the first post-rookie contract (Iguodala, Young, Holiday). Hinkie was the first GM in awhile to reverse that trend. YOUR contention was that the Sixers were inevitably "Bobcats bad" as a result of this trade. My response was that result didn't have to be the case. There are still moves that can be made. There are lots of short-term veteran point guard candidates in the free agent class. There are also serviceable centers (like Dalembert even) and players with scoring potential available. They will be poor next year but they would have been poor anyway. They were awful this year and it's still possible that they won't have a much worse record next year. But, they have a very good chance of having two lottery picks next year and may also have more cap space. Court_visioN reply to buke on Jun 28 at 11:28 Reply +/- the whole point of this trade - and any future moves I see following the same trend - is to get towards "bobcats bad" GoSixers reply to Court_visioN on Jun 28 at 11:35 Reply +/- Hopefully the sixers have better people running the organization than those running the bobcats GoSixers reply to Court_visioN on Jun 28 at 11:35 Reply +/- PS - last night we were naming teams in terms of 'suck' that would be worse than the pelicans next year - I'm not sure the bucks made the list - but I'm pretty sure they're not going back to the playoffs -a nd they're looking at suckitude next season buke reply to Court_visioN on Jun 28 at 13:20 Reply +/- Being "Bobcats bad" is pretty risky even for a young team. You can turn off a large segment of the fan base without really acquiring game changers. After all, what do they have to show for so many years of awfulness? Byron Mullins, Bismack Biyombo, Kemba Walker, Michael Kid-Gilchrest, and now Cody Zeller? And, of course, going further back in history, there was Adam Morrison. I suppose that level is OK if you can limit it to one year, but that's harder than it sounds. It's hard to imagine the Sixers coming close to the playoffs even with some decent quality free agent pickups but they should try to field a better team than the Bobcats. These young players do need some mentoring and I would be surprised if the GM just intends to lay down for a whole season in a desperate attempt to get Andrew Wiggins. The man seems to have too much sense of "odds" for that. Brian reply to buke on Jun 28 at 13:28 Reply +/- Your idiocy annoys me. If they aren't Bobcats bad they have virtually no shot at the top pick in the draft. If Hinkie follows up that trade/draft with subsequent moves that build them up to being a 30+ win team, he's dumber than you are. Buke on Jun 28 at 0:12 Reply +/- Hinkie traded an overvalued point guard for a potentially very good defensive center and another probable high draft pick. The team now should have generous cap space. I will wait to see what Hinkie does within the next month. There certainly is no guarantee that they will be as bad as the Bobcats. Brian reply to Buke on Jun 28 at 0:22 Reply +/- You can rip Jrue all you want, it doesn't matter much now, but look at how this team performed when he wasn't in the game last year. Unless MCW winds up being a stud right out of the gate, they're going to be beyond terrible. It wouldn't even matter if Nerlens was healthy and awesome right away. Tray reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 0:28 Reply +/- I think MCW will be dreadful out of the gate. Which is fine with me, in the long term he may be as good as Jrue or pretty close. He at least has the tools to be a very good defender. Stan on Jun 28 at 0:19 Reply +/- Now we just have to hope that New Orleans misses the playoffs next year. Jure/Gordon/Aminu/Anderson/Davis could be a good team. I think 7 teams in the West are a lock to make the playoffs- OCK, SAS, DEN, LAC, MEM, GS, and HOU. Hopefully POR, MIN, UTA, and DAL all get their shit together. Does anyone know what the protections are if New Orleans gets a top 5 pick next year? Tray reply to Stan on Jun 28 at 0:26 Reply +/- Thought it's just top 3 protected? I think there are too many teams in position to make a run at the 8th seed for the Hornets to have much of a chance. Not that it matters a whole lot whether they're 13th or 14th. But I don't even know if Jrue makes them better immediately. He has more upside than Vazquez, but Vazquez was pretty great last year. And I don't think Gordon will stay around. eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 0:33 Reply +/- I think it will be tough for them to keep Vasquez off the court which could mean Jrue playing off-guard for a chunk of time. This is assuming that Austin Rivers doesn't improve much as a ball hog and they ship Gordon out of town. Tray reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 28 at 0:37 Reply +/- That makes sense. Well, I hope Jrue has a nice career. At least now he has some athletes and shooters to pass to. I'd be pretty shocked if he makes another All-Star game for a long time though. eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 1:01 Reply +/- He shouldn't have made his first one coughing the ball up with the frequency with which he did. Tray reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 28 at 1:09 Reply +/- At the time he was selected, he was the second or third best healthy point guard in the East. Though you could have made a case for Calderon. sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 0:27 Reply +/- this is a good summary of what they got tonight from LB "So the final damage: The Sixers acquire Nerlens Noel, Michael Carter-Williams, Arsalan Kazemi, a 2014 1st round pick from New Orleans, and two 2014 2nd round picks from Milwaukee and Dallas(through BOS), respectively." das411 on Jun 28 at 0:42 Reply +/- CSN is showing the Phillies for some reason but twitter says there is an imminent Hinkie presser being streamed by http://www.975thefanatic.com/ Scott on Jun 28 at 0:47 Reply +/- Do the sixers have to give Heat New Orleans pick if it is not in the lottery? Pretty sure they get a non lottery 1st rounder due to Arnett Moultrie trade sixerfan1220 reply to Scott on Jun 28 at 0:52 Reply +/- the only way the heat get the sixers pick is if the sixers make the playoffs, the pelicans pick has nothing to do with the sixers owing Miami a pick buke reply to Scott on Jun 28 at 0:52 Reply +/- I believe that trade was made for their OWN pick, not one that would have been acquired subsequently. das411 on Jun 28 at 0:47 Reply +/- ...and was this the most epic day for a Philly GM since the day Holmgren traded Carter and Mike Richie? das411 on Jun 28 at 0:51 Reply +/- 975 reporting the pick from NOH is top 3 protected, not top 5...hmm... South Broad on Jun 28 at 0:51 Reply +/- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99kmg_2EwY Simmons/Doc spat. das411 on Jun 28 at 1:19 Reply +/- woah HInkie says the reports of Brown hiring are NOT TRUE hmmmm jswigga on Jun 28 at 1:34 Reply +/- All this conjecture begs the question... Who is going to be developing these so-called diamonds in the rough as we continually plummet downwards?? speeke on Jun 28 at 1:48 Reply +/- dvr'd the draft. came back from playin ball. phone was full of calls from my dad/friends. had a real ominous feeling. when I heard simmons report some tweet that we gave up jrue and our 2014 1st rounder for Noel I was ready to drive to philly to burn Hinkie's house down. Now (with knowledge of the actual deal) I almost hate to say I like it; its a cold-hearted but smart move. I love Jrue and at least he's going to a better place - running the pick and roll w/ a hopefully healthy Anthony Davis in NO. Whole draft night had a real Red Wedding feel to it but at least it worked out (with a lot riding on next year's lottery obviously). Well said Brian, team's gonna be REAL tough to watch next year. I almost hope they trade Thad just for his sake cause he deserves better than what they're gonna run out around him in 2013-14. Maybe they can even boost ET's value by putting the ball in his hands all game and letting him gun. The inefficiency's gonna be staggering Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 2:43 Reply +/- For the people saying the team is unwatchable next year.... Did you have fun watching the Sixers this year WITH jrue? This was the absolute least interesting year of watching the Sixers of all the years I've spent watching the team. There was literally nothing to watch for, I think I checked in to one game in the last two months. At least now there is a plan in place. With Jrue we were never going to be good, but he was going to get us enough wins so that we could not get a high pick. There are certain years that are better to tank and THIS upcoming year is one of them. I am looking forward to the upcoming year of Sixers basketball. I felt that Nerlens Noel was the top player in the draft and I look forward to seeing how he plays and progresses. Also will be following the top prospects close. This past year there was absolutely nothing to watch for, next year? Can't wait. It'll be great to see this team for cheap before all the frontrunners hop on. This trade gives me the confidence in Hinkie . Finally the Sixers have a competent front office(best of the 4 teams in the city, who'd have thought that?) with a plan. A guy that is actually smart, not just some random ex-player idiot. Brian reply to Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 6:31 Reply +/- They were watchable basically until the all star break when it became apparent Bynum wasn't coming back. They'll be much worse this summer. Brian reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 6:32 Reply +/- Err, season. Not summer. Matt reply to Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 8:25 Reply +/- I'm with you. Brian's contention was always that the Sixers couldn't tank with Jrue and Thad. Hinkie took care of that in advance of a highly regarded draft next year, picked up who many thought was the best talent this year, and picked up another likely lottery pick next year. Bonus points on the night for the fact that Noel won't play right away so the tanking is even more surefire, and both Jrue and CJ are on teams that could be interesting when the Sixers are unwatchable. This team was already impossible to watch, at least there's light at the end of the tunnel now. buke reply to Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 11:37 Reply +/- No, I did not enjoy watching them at all. I did enjoy watching the team during Collins' first year here when they played with very crisp team ball movement. That was all gone this past year as they reverted to dribble, dribble, and stand around. They have now disposed of one of the two players most responsible for that. We'll see if the other one can change his ways. At least he's gone by the end of the year at the latest if he doesn't change. They need scoring and short-term fixes in a couple of places desperately to be watchable this year but they might get those. In any event, it's a transition year I can live with given the potential for the future. At least I don't have to watch the same players with the same style lose much longer. Jason on Jun 28 at 7:08 Reply +/- It's great to see Jrue Holiday finally getting national media coverage. To bad it took a blockbuster trade for him to finally get his due. Rusty on Jun 28 at 8:22 Reply +/- I will really miss Jrue. I liked his attitude and thought he could be someone but I think we can all agree that this trade has "potential" to really turn this franchise around. I missed his interview but it sounds like he only reiterated what we already know: future, future, future. Tomorrow, not today. Now the question becomes how do we fill out the rest of our roster for this year. Do we keep Turner? (he will certainly help us lose games) Do we keep Thaddeus? I think finding some type of mentor for MCW will be huge. He is a very intriguing prospect. Good distribution ability. Cuse guys are always a mystery in terms of how they will translate to the pros defensively, but the limited evidence would point towards a good defensive player. The biggest knock is the jumper but coming out of high school he was a shooter until he great 5 inches. His shot looks smooth - let's hope he can develop that and keep defenses honest. Its a learning year for him. We should be able to see what Moultrie is made of this year. If he is really going to pan out to be a rotational player or less/more. It seems to me like he could coexist well with Noel. I honestly wonder if we try to do more dealing for raw high upside guys. I think Noel and MCW might fit that category most out of the top 11 drafted. There were rumors that we working to deal Turner at the end of the first round (who knows the truth to this) and I don't think any of us would be shocked to see that happen. And finally, next year's draft. It is rather unfortunate that we will have so much invested in something so far away but boy oh boy. Best possible outcome? #1 and #4. Worst possible outcome? Sixers and Pelicans make playoffs (don't see that happening). Most likely outcome? Somewhere in between, and I am fine sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see what that is. I like the calculated risk here... it is going to be a painful season but if these guys are the beginning pieces to an eventual successful team then enjoy the little moments of watching them grow. I remember the growing pains of AI, and those were some of the best years to watch knowing what it could be down the line. sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 8:41 Reply +/- @WojYahooNBA: Undrafted Univ. of Minnesota forward Rodney Williams has agreed to a free agent deal with the Philadelphia 76ers buke reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 13:03 Reply +/- Know him well as I'm a Gopher fan. He can jump out of the gym but his talents don't go too far beyond that. Brian on Jun 28 at 8:46 Reply +/- Watched some more video of Noel and MCW this morning. Bad news is they're both pretty atrocious offensively. Noel can dunk and he'll probably get points off lobs, rolling to the hoop, running the floor and offensive boards, but you can't count on him for more than that and I'm not sure you ever will be able to. MCW reminds me a lot of Shaun Livingston. Think he'll be a good distributor, but don't think he's going to be able to put pressure on the defense in the way most good PGs in the league do, and he's not a shooter. The good news is Noel looks like an absolute stud defensively. He needs to fill out to work on defending on the blocks, but that's not even a huge need for a defensive C in the league these days. He's going to block a ton of shots and create a ton of turnovers. Looks like a legit defensive centerpiece. MCW looks good defensively as well, and he's got the size to be able to guard any perimeter position. Think Noel is going to be a big part of the future (if there is one), don't think MCW will be the starting PG on this team if/when they contend. Not enough explosiveness, no shooting. eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 9:37 Reply +/- This is what I was making mention of last night. He will obviously hopefully get better at the nuances of the game but the reason I was pining so hard for Larkin (after Burke was gone) was because he is such a threat in P&R situations and Jim Larranaga shoved his P&R prowess down opponents' throats when he wasn't calling for pick-and-pops with Larkin and Kenny Kadji. Yeah he's short but the kid can pull up with accuracy, and blow by and draw and kick, or finish it with either hand himself. He puts so much pressure on a D that you are speaking of in today's game. With all of the talent in the ACC he ended up coming out of nowhere to be named ACC player of the year. Anyway, someone asked last night if Nerlens was just a shiny Bismack with more defensive instincts. I think that was a pretty apt description because the dude is even shaky with anything resembling a jumper outside of 5 or so feet. I agree that he may never develop any type of offensive ability that could be considered a threat to a defense. Not too keen on him even being a back to the basket threat in his career, though that would be the most likely part of him developing as a weapon with some needed work on his footwork. Someone mentioned it above but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hinkie request for Evan Turner to be featured more this year to up his value with the end result being to flip him at the deadline as an expiring for additional assets. That is if he doesn't ship him out before the end of this summer. I'm of the belief now that the former plays out and they keep him til February. Just hope like hell that whomever mentioned last night that MCW thinks highly of himself as much as 2 Evan Turner's wasn't telling the truth and was just frustrated with the pick. If that is the case, he's in for a rude awakening ala Turner. Charlie H reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 28 at 10:53 Reply +/- That was me. I'm a Syracuse fan and have a close friend who follows them very closely. He hates MCW, thinks he's not close to ready for the NBA. My response is that hardly any of these guys are ready and that Carter-Williams is a good defender. He grudgingly agreed with me. He has the sort of confidence that makes you think he's delusional. He'll go 3 for 12 and talk about what a great game he had because he hit a jumper late. I'm a complete believer in confidence, don't think you can succeed without it, but you have to be real too and work on your weaknesses. I don't know if MCW thinks he has any. I see Turner being featured a lot more. He's gonna dominate the ball like Rondo. On a bad team, he'll feel he has to do everything, which might even be a good thing, considering his nature. But considering his inefficiency, it could be a very bad thing. He'll probably average 12 boards a game. Turner's confidence I find much more convincing than Carter-Williams', not sure why. Next year will tell us everything about him, those of us who haven't quite made up our minds yet, that is. MikeW on Jun 28 at 8:49 Reply +/- Hope I'm wrong, but before the draft I said "if we end up with a PG this draft, please don't let it be MCW. Just think, as Brian said, he won't be able to make the defense respect his scoring ability. I guess that's what they said about Rondo too, but I would have been much happier if Hinkie could've pulled the strings for McCollum, Burke, or even got the German kid to run the show. Brian reply to MikeW on Jun 28 at 8:51 Reply +/- Feel the same way, but PG is a plentiful position in the league. If that becomes the missing piece, they should be able get one. Plus, starting this kid for 82 games is going to lead to a ton of ping pong balls. Rusty on Jun 28 at 8:52 Reply +/- It also looks like the guy we picked up in the 2nd round could be a decent rotational player. High energy, rebounding (that obvious comp is Reggie Evans). http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/67166/arsalan-kazemi-the-2013-nba-drafts-ready-made-overlooked-rebounding-machine Brian you are spot on about the lack of offense here. Just think of how ugly it could be next year. I would expect us to at least be taking many more three's or taking the ball to the hoop. No long two's. And I am still holding out hope for MCW as a legit starter. The Livingston body with the Rondo/Miller type of play. He "apparently" is a natural distributor, something that people thought Jrue was not, so lets see if he shows that on the next level. Brian reply to Rusty on Jun 28 at 8:56 Reply +/- Livingston was/is a really creative passer. Think he's a good comp. Charlie H on Jun 28 at 10:33 Reply +/- Tremendous post, Brian. I feel like yelling as loud as I can in agreement. It's really hard to know if these beancounters understand what being a fan is. Gosixers says it had to be done, which is what we all said last year about the you-know-who trade (the one involving my new favorite player, Jason Richardson). And I still say it had to be done, even though it turned into a sickening replay of the Moses trade. Jrue Holiday is 23. He was our best asset and was sacrificed to give us a shot at contention 7 years from now. I can't say I'm real pumped at the prospect of waiting and sadly watching for another half decade or so for this team to win a playoff series. But that's all we have, hope and expectation. Nobody in the starting lineup who can shoot, a huge downgrade at the point for the next 3 - 4 years, another center with a major knee injury we will not get to see when the season starts - think about that, the one fun part of the season when your team is bad and even that will be a total drag. (They traded those 2nd-round point guards too, right? Would have liked to see what they got. Instead we get the preening MCW who will probably be handed the keys and prove himself to be utterly incapable of running a pro team before they bring in Calderon or somebody to provide a semblance of professionalism.) I guess by October I'll be looking forward to, what exactly? GoSixers reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 10:44 Reply +/- Well i'm sure you'll enjoy insulting the 'beancounters' who don't know how to be 'fanatics' Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 10:59 Reply +/- I'm not into insulting anybody. He most definitely is a beancounter. Nothing wrong with that, and you have to have them the way the league works now. But he hasn't proved jack, except that he's willing to take a risk. The team took a risk last year too, and nobody was singing Rod Thorn's praises. GoSixers reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 11:19 Reply +/- Really? At the time the sixers traded for Andrew Bynum no body was singing praises (BTW - at the time it was pretty well established that Doug Collins was making the decisions). You can't rewrite history just because it didn't work out, the trade was praised by a lot of people. Beancounter is a perjorative used by 'old school' people who think that because a person uses analytics that's all they do. The sixers were not on a path to win an NBA title - now they're on a path where they might get a chance Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:19 Reply +/- Oh stop being so sensitive Mr. Beancounter. Actually we're in agreement on last year's trade. I'm not revising history - I said I still think it was a good trade, leaving the results out of the question. My point was that nobody around here praised Thorn for making a bold move, I guess because he's "old school." Now that a Wall Street guy does it with "analytics", it's pure brilliance. Don't lump me in with those who judge decisions based on results, at least when luck is involved. It's just really hard to say that Len Bias was a brilliant draft pick or that getting Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round was a good move by the Patriots. In the first case, it was bad luck. In the 2nd, red flags were raised and maybe should have been heeded. On the other hand, how much different are these 2 cases? It wasn't luck that Bias smoked that rock - it was his decision. buke reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 15:05 Reply +/- Well, I guess I qualify as a beancounter by education and experience but I took no offense in your remark. But I don't think Hinkie's analytics background is what motivates the "wow" here. I think the reaction is motivated by his striking departure from recent Sixers' tradition. Those prior GMs were willing to make bold and quite expensive deals in an effort to upgrade a competitive team to a higher level of contention, but they never seemed willing to take big risks that could turn the team in the opposite direction in the short-term (even though their moves resulted in the opposite direction in Brand's first year and Bynum's non-year). And this move could leave the Sixers in the lottery for multiple years. Really, though, I think this team was bad either way in the coming year, but neither Stefanski nor Thorn nor Billy King seemed like the types to me that would give up the team's most heralded starter under these circumstances for an untested (and injured) player of high potential and a future first rounder. Hinkie's type of trade takes some guts but maybe Hinkie feels that fans will be more patient and less disgusted with a new GM and a new coach and at least some new players struggling on the court. GoSixers reply to buke on Jun 28 at 15:10 Reply +/- Or maybe Hinkie surveyed the landscape and realized how unimportant the sixers are on the sports landscape (very few town with the four 'majors' have a hockey team more popular than the basketbal team year in and year out) so tanking wouldn't matter that much - but he also knows that many sports 'fans' only care if you win and will start showing up when yo udo buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 15:50 Reply +/- Well, interestingly enough, not only do I root for the Sixers, I also live in the Twin Cities area which is another metro in that small category you describe. The Wild are far more popular than the Wolves here. Of course, hockey at all levels is extremely popular here (even high school girls hockey has lots of fans). GoSixers reply to buke on Jun 28 at 16:01 Reply +/- I went to school in wisconsin, i know how popular hockey is there, trust me, but the north stars also had a LONG history before the wolves existed...i did forget about them though Charlie H reply to buke on Jun 28 at 15:37 Reply +/- I pretty much agree with all this. it's definitely more of a tear down type of move than any of the previous regimes would have made. Tanking as an acceptable strategy is a recent development. It was hush-hush when San Antonio did it in '97, tacitly acknowledged when Ainge did it; now it's the thing to do. 5 teams with a reasonable chance at the Finals and 25 teams diving into the tank. The NBA should have a second division. Denver is the team of this era. Very, very good team. High energy players. Outstanding coach. Almost made the conference finals. Fun to watch. So what do they do? Fire the coach, fire the GM. Their best player opts out. Did they do it because they had NO SHOT at a championship? Don't know, but the point is they don't have a shot. It's the frustrating thing about the NBA. buke reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 15:57 Reply +/- "The NBA should have a second division." Now that's one of the most interesting ideas I've heard in a long time. Yes, I was also a bit stunned by Denver's impatience. The Polar Bear reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 13:08 Reply +/- http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/67166/arsalan-kazemi-the-2013-nba-drafts-ready-made-overlooked-rebounding-machine Well they did keep this guy from the second round. As far MCW goes I really don't care if he blows chunks, the point of this season is to be horrendous. And as a fan you still have something to cheer for, sixer's losses. If you are going to tank half measures won't cut it so Thad probably should be moved as well. I was a fan of the moves last night (as well as the Bynum trade) because it's a plan to contend for a championship. It probably won't work out but at least they are trying. Charlie H reply to The Polar Bear on Jun 28 at 13:26 Reply +/- Fair enough, but I can't cheer for lossses. Just can't do it. I'd rather watch golf. I think you should want MCW to be good. He can be as good as Chris Paul and they'll still stink next year, so don't worry about the all-important tanking strategy. You want to have to replace him too in a few years? You only have so many draft picks. Brian reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 13:34 Reply +/- There's a very good chance I won't be watching religiously this year for this reason. I want to see them play, but don't enjoy rooting for losses at all. I probably won't watch at all until Noel is playing, and then sporadically. Definitely not going to any games this season. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 13:40 Reply +/- But are you going to buy league pass? Brian reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:44 Reply +/- not immediately. I'll wait until i know for sure when Noel is playing. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 13:48 Reply +/- I think I'm going to try and focus more on college ball - maybe even get the ESPN league pass as well - maybe writing about college players who might be on the sixers next year will give you some oomph to stay interested :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:52 Reply +/- College ball is so fucking bad, though. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 14:01 Reply +/- Watch the players - not the game - the sixers are going to be pretty bad next year too - at least with the college game you're focusing on the guys and upside - just checking out their ability - yes college games are bad - but man the sixers are going to be worse next year and most of those guys will have no place in the future of hte franchise - at least with the bad college games maybe you can see stuff to look forward to :) Greg reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 15:15 Reply +/- In my opinion you don't have to cheer for losses. The team won't be trying to lose. The team will be playing to win. It just won't happen very often. But you can still root for wins. (however if our record is not in the bottom 2 we could perhaps give our younger players some more action, since they do need time to improve their skills :) The Polar Bear reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 20:46 Reply +/- Well when the product becomes putrid enough I don't have a problem at all with cheering against the sixers. I basically hate watched the entire second half of last season. Who knows why I put myself through that? Sports is much more enjoyable when I'm routing for a specific team, and cheering for a mediocre sixers team that at most would win a game or two in the first round was something I loathed. So I got my wish and will still tune in to watch the train wreck. Although I completely understand where you are coming from sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 11:27 Reply +/- underrated part of the trade ownership is ok losing if they think its good for the long term das411 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 12:30 Reply +/- yes now we know why Hinkie was so adamant when they introduced him that it was important Harris backed up the Bynum trade from last year...good decisions leading to good results, but was this a good decision? sixerfan1220 reply to das411 on Jun 28 at 12:35 Reply +/- yes GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 12:42 Reply +/- Ah see - but for some - the results decide whether or not it was a good decision - because everyone knows after the fact that that's how it was really going to work out. sixerfan1220 reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 12:45 Reply +/- you judge the process not the results, dont know why more people dont understand this GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 12:54 Reply +/- Oh - I do I do Mike Judge knew Mike Judge knew he made a great movie about it Tray on Jun 28 at 11:58 Reply +/- It should be pointed out that this strategy does come with a high chance of failure. The worst team in the lottery has only a 46% chance of a top two pick; the second worst has a 44% chance of falling out of the top three, as Charlotte did this year. At 3 or 4, what you're likely getting is a non-superstar who's good enough to keep you from winning future lotteries. To be sure, this draft might be as good as the 2003 draft, but even in 2003, picking third and getting a "star" like Melo turned out to just be a ticket to a lot of first-round losses. Players like Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, and Marcus Smart could very easily lead us back to mediocrity or false hopes of contention. The pick we're getting from the Pelicans is probably going to be a late-lottery pick, and would tend to have the same effect. The players we drafted last night have considerable bust potential, particularly MCW, and I'm not sure who they're going to learn from this season - Turner? Will Thad even be around? It may not be the greatest culture for young iffy prospects to learn the NBA game. Finally, trading a very young All-Star point guard may turn out to be a mistake, though I wasn't a big believer in Jrue's future. Consider though that he accomplished what he accomplished while being forced into an ill-fitting feature scoring role and being deprived of any legit bigs or shooters to pass to. That all said, I'm really excited about this deal. GoSixers reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 11:59 Reply +/- It should be pointed out that the 'strategy' they were pursuing has an even higher chance of failing to win a championship Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 12:13 Reply +/- Every strategy has a high chance of failing. 96.7% to be precise. Only one team can win a championship per year. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jun 28 at 12:30 Reply +/- I'm glad you think it's so simple as 1/30 - except that you're wrong - blatantly and obviously - you're not that ignorant. Coming into the season at least 1/3 of the teams in the league have no chance of winning the title and everyone knows it...minimum 1/3 - it's probably higher but people wanna argue 'if you make the playoffs you have a shot' (The bucks had no shot by the way) Basically, the people opposed to last nights very risky move are the people who enjoy mediocrity and thinking making the playoffs with not shot of a conference finals appearance as the BEST outcome year and year out is enjoyable The goal is to win championships - if you're willing to settle for less - you shouldn't care about sports Tray reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:07 Reply +/- I suspect some people are opposed to this move because they're higher on Jrue than you and I are. Brian, I think, would've signed Bynum and kept Jrue, not because he's content with mediocrity, but because he thinks we could win that way. I think it's a great move but there are reasonable arguments that it isn't even if your priority is winning championships. Tray reply to GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:22 Reply +/- Yes, we're in much better shape with this deal. I don't agree with the comment below that you shouldn't care about sports if you'll settle for less than championships. There's nothing wrong with settling for whatever level of achievement satisfies you as a fan, whether that's what, for example, the Jazz did in the 90s or what the Warriors are doing now, or what Cleveland did with LeBron. All of these teams played thrilling, good, at times beautiful basketball, and if that's all a fan asks for that's fine. It is just an entertainment, sports. buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 13:53 Reply +/- Well said! (although I hated watching Cleveland most of the time when the younger Lebron was on the team - don't like 1 on 5) buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 14:12 Reply +/- Yes, and let's not forget that Darko was the second pick of 2003. Next year is supposed to be such a good draft though that getting two picks somewhere between 4 and 12 might provide significant help for the future. Of course, many pundits were wrong about 2007 being that "once in a generation" draft. A team picking 6th and 7th in that draft would have landed Yi Jianlian and Corey Brewer. GoSixers on Jun 28 at 13:05 Reply +/- Draft Night with Nerlens Noel Draft Night with Michael Carter-Williams ojr107 on Jun 28 at 13:19 Reply +/- Good article from a Pelicans Blogger. I think he underestimates how much Jrue's defense can impact a game, but other than that, I agree with him that Holiday has question marks regarding his offense game. Part of his lack of efficiency may have had to do without the scheme/teammates, but its still a somewhat of a question regarding how good he is. ojr107 reply to ojr107 on Jun 28 at 13:20 Reply +/- Sorry, forgot to provide the link http://www.atthehive.com/2013/6/28/4473122/trade-analysis-nerlens-noel-for-jrue-holiday buke reply to ojr107 on Jun 28 at 13:29 Reply +/- I think he's a fine athlete, a good scorer, and an above average shooter. I don't think he is a true point guard but he is fine in a system with multiple ball handlers and good team ball movement (like the Sixers had in his second and third years). If they run a three guard offense of Vasquez, Gordon, and Holiday, Jrue may do very well there. Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 13:54 Reply +/- I think Holiday is overrated as well. He is game was dominating the basketball and he was VERY turnover prone. My biggest thing with him though is that he was so bad finishing inside and getting to the free throw line. This kind of applies to all point guards though. I feel point guard dominated teams typically don't win titles unless you have an all-star at every position. The best way to win a title is to get a superstar or to have a VERY strong frontcourt. There are only two guys I'd classify as superstars in this league: LeBron James and Durant. These are the only two guys you could put on any team in the league and they'd be a threat to win at least a playoff series. Unless you have a guy like that on the perimeter(and theres been 5 tops in nba history) my philosophy is that you need to be BIG to win and contend. Get 7 footers that protect the rim, that can get you easy points inside, that can dominate the rebounds. The Lakers didn't win a single playoff series with Kobe Bryant on the team post Shaq until they gave him a Bynum-Gasol-Odom froncourt(the best frontcourt trio since 80s Celtics). Nerlens Noel is a possible foundation for a team and I'm pumped. Also gives us a chance next year at a guy that could be one of those realistic superstars like LeBron/Durant(Wiggins). Add 40 million in cap room(Kevin Love is a free agent and we know he wont be going back to MIN) and your in position for multipe first tier free agents to add to Noel, Thaddeus, top 5 pick, top 15 pick. It's beautiful. I think the guy the Sixers drafted at 11 is a bum though and he'll be out of the league in 5 years. A minor move when looking at the big picture they created, but we'll see. Brian reply to Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 13:56 Reply +/- Agree with a lot of this, but Jrue was a good finisher inside. Just never got the contact and went to the line. Charlie H reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 14:53 Reply +/- One of the best. I guess Mr Hobbes missed all those left-handed dunks in traffic. Charlie H reply to Charlie H on Jun 28 at 15:12 Reply +/- Hubbs, sorry. Wasn't there a Hobbes on DF a while back? buke reply to Mr Hubbs on Jun 28 at 14:22 Reply +/- I don't have any idea of whether Carter Williams will be a "bum" but a fair assumption is that he wasn't the Sixer's first point guard choice. They could have gone with Larkin (or Schroeder), though. We'll see if they made a mistake. I hope they pick up a cost effective veteran point so they can ease-in the new kid anyway. There seem to be a fair number of them available this year. GoSixers on Jun 28 at 14:18 Reply +/- There are about three really great sixers blog writers out there in my opinion, Brian is one of them, Derek bodner is also one of them, and he also has access most of us don't, media and syngergy like - and he wrote a nice post-mortem on last night and what it means Derek Bodner reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 13:14 Reply +/- Thanks. Appreciate it. KH on Jun 28 at 14:20 Reply +/- I don't know how anybody can be anything but thrilled with Hinkie's move. I am a Jrue Holiday fan, I own his jersey t-shirt, but to me he peaks out as a guy who makes the all-star teams a few times and probably never is solidly considered one of the top 20 players in the league night in and night out. He doesn't get to the free throw line or shoot quite well enough to ever be a super star. I will admit the way he finished the season left me soured. To me being a 35 win team the next few years and hoping you get a superstar to sign was not a good game plan. They needed to get real bad and stock pile young assets. Hopefully Fat Albert Turner is next. buke reply to KH on Jun 28 at 14:38 Reply +/- As far as Fat Albert goes, Steve Blake for him works on the trade machine. A low cost vet point is something the team needs now. Rich on Jun 28 at 14:45 Reply +/- I knew you were gonna take this one hard, Brian. I remember you being a huge fan of Jrue's before we even took him, and that sort of fondness stayed with me, too. It was pretty tough when I heard the news last night. All I could think about was how Eddie Jordan wouldn't play him early on and how pretty much everyone universally complained about it. That said, I'm very in favor of what Hinkie did here. Like everything outside of signing LeBron James, it's a risk, but I think it's one worth taking. We just have to find the patience to sit through one season of horrible basketball. If it makes you feel better, I think you're really going to like Noel, assuming (no chances here) he comes back healthy. He's the anti-Hawes. Brian reply to Rich on Jun 28 at 16:25 Reply +/- Yeah, Noel really looks like a defensive stud. And this move blows as a guy who looks forward to coming home every night and watching the team play. I get attached to players more than I probably should, but I do get it. I'm not raking Hinkie over the coals. He got great value for Jrue and Jrue had flaws, it's not like he traded LeBron, or a 23-year-old CP3. Just not looking forward to the shitty basketball we're going to have to suffer through for a year (at minimum). das411 reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 16:35 Reply +/- what if this season involves 40 games or so of a certain large-fro'd center whose knees seem to have miraculously healed? GoSixers reply to Brian on Jun 28 at 17:11 Reply +/- They're going to be bad for at least 2 years Brian - no matter how good the rookies they get in 2014 are - they're still going to be rookies and Noel probably will be a 'blake griffin' kind of rookie...that's gonna be an ugly team but hopefully an ugly team with upside :) Greg on Jun 28 at 14:46 Reply +/- Ok, i'm very happy with this overall. The team had gotten so bad that I actually beleive blowing it up and starting a fresh rebuild may have been the best option. And what better time to tank then this draft that is so deep. I thought a healthy Bynum had better odds for turning us into a contender, but if they aren't behind him then maybe they know how bad hia knees really are. I also want to note that some have said we could still sign bynum, and i still think that's worth considering (assuming we can somehow still tank with him, keeping his minutes limited) Without a healthy Bynum, i do believe tanking 1 season was the next best option with the next best odds of making us into a contender. Mainly because the team was so bad that we needed a complete rebuild. The best part about this is just knowing that we won't keep filling the roster with middle-of-the-road aging talent. This really looks like they are doing this the right way. 2 first rounders this year. 2 next year, and he kept wheeling and dealing to accumulate 2nd rounders next year. This means we will start to have a depth of young players coming in competing and growing together. That's something the team was really starting to lose. The goal here (i hope) is not just to get bad but develop these young players like the magic did last year, and within a year we can hopfully not aim for any lottery position and simply try to get those guys to build chemistry and continue to build the best team possible. Greg reply to Greg on Jun 28 at 17:15 Reply +/- I want to add that this doesn't limit the Sixers from other plans, such as the free agent period next offseason when kwame comes off the books. if our team had better pieces or if the draft wasn't so great, i might question this move, but all the pieces seem to be coming together making this a good time to do a complete rebuild. And its not like the team's parts ever fit well anyway. Greg on Jun 28 at 14:57 Reply +/- LOL, some guy on the radio just said turner will average a triple double at point guard. I could see him getting close, maybe 8 rebounds and 8 assists, but i don't think that he's happy about it. Him and jrue were pretty close i thought and i don't think he liked the trade like some people assume. buke reply to Greg on Jun 28 at 15:17 Reply +/- If Turner even comes close to averaging a triple double, this will be one awful year to watch. If he's still around, I'm hoping for an upside of him controlling the ball less, taking about two fewer shots per game, but still posting about the same numbers by choosing better shots, hitting more threes, and going to the line more. Just as important, he needs to care about playing defense full time again. This is a contract year for him, so he should have enough inspiration. The big question is whether he has the discipline. Tray reply to buke on Jun 28 at 16:35 Reply +/- Again with the insanity. Why would you hope that Turner actually plays well? buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 18:12 Reply +/- Why do you think I have to share your preferences for the future of the Sixers and any one of their individual players? Do I have to share your preferences in religion, politics, movies, and music as well? Maybe you should offer me your wife or girlfriend so I can share her too. To think that I should be destined or motivated in any way to agree with you is the real insanity. Tray reply to buke on Jun 28 at 18:18 Reply +/- Because, you basically seem to be hoping for us to win, say, 30 games instead of 15, which would almost certainly result in us losing literally hundreds more games in future seasons than we'd win. There's no coherent way to explain that preference, unless you expect to be dead in 2014. Tray reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 18:57 Reply +/- Maybe dozens is more accurate than hundreds. Over 7 seasons though (which is how long LeBron stayed in Cleveland), drafting someone like McGary at 11 instead of Wiggins at 1 really could make a hundred wins of difference, especially when you factor in all the free agents who will want to play with a superstar. I can understand Brian rooting for the 8th seed instead of tanking all these years, but you want to throw away a chance at a superstar so we can just be barely watchable. Again, makes no sense unless you expect to be dead before the 2014-15 season. buke reply to Tray on Jun 28 at 19:15 Reply +/- You can't ask players to try to play badly, you can't ask coaches to deliberately manage for losing, and you can't expect a GM to deliberately put the worst team he can on the court. These notions only exist in the fantasies of childish fans. And no matter how much fans may know that the probability of a high draft standing is enhanced by a lousy record, they still want to watch some winning performances in an 82 game season. Luckily this team can lose at least 50 + games while still trying to win. If we only end up with a 4 or 5 and a 12th pick, I'll still be happy - even more so if I see some worthwhile performances during the season that give hope for the future. If losing more games leads to "hundreds" of additional wins in future seasons (obviously, math isn't one of your strengths), then Sacramento, Charlotte, and Washington each should have won a hundred more games in the last three years. About Turner (not that I owe you any kind of explanation): I am a Big Ten fan and alumnus who remembers him well from his college days. I'd still like see him have a decent career regardless of whether or not that occurs in Philadelphia. Court_visioN reply to buke on Jun 28 at 19:26 Reply +/- You're right in that you can't ask a player to not play hard. And you can't ask a coach not to prepare his players as best he can and play the best players. But if ownership is supporting you - and it clearly looks like they do in this case - you can absolutely ask a GM to put the worst team on the floor. A worst team WITH UPSIDE. Tray reply to buke on Jun 28 at 21:46 Reply +/- "You can't ask players to try to play badly, you can't ask coaches to deliberately manage for losing, and you can't expect a GM to deliberately put the worst team he can on the court. These notions only exist in the fantasies of childish fans." But actually, our GM IS deliberately putting the worst team he can on the court. Notice the moves he's made. He traded away our best player for a really raw prospect who won't even play for parts of the season, and a draft pick we don't get to use until after the season's over. To replace Jrue, he drafts a point guard with high upside who currently cannot shoot or score on the NBA level. So far, he's kept Turner in spite of rumors he'd be traded, and Turner's just about the worst starter in the NBA and he's only going to get worse without talent around him. He shows no interest in bringing back Bynum at a discount. And no, "fans" don't want to see some winning performances during the season. I mean yes, so long as we lose more games than any team in the NBA, I would like to see some glimmers of the future here and there, but only crazy fans would rather see this be a 28-win season than a 15-win season. Again, unless they expect to be dead in 2015 or have some serious mental issues that cause them to unconditionally need tiny amounts of short-term gratification at the expense of huge losses. You would like to lose our only shot since the 1996 draft at a superstar talent to see a few extra "winning performances" from Thad and some despicable scrub. buke reply to Tray on Jun 29 at 15:50 Reply +/- You don't know yet whether he is deliberately putting the worst team he can on the floor. We will only know that when he is finished dealing. I am pretty confident of a two things: 1) Management wants to go in a new direction and that may well involve other significant player moves; 2) The team very likely does not want to make the playoffs. I don't see much danger of failing on the second expectation but I'm not convinced yet that management will seek to break the 72-73 record of failure. GoSixers reply to buke on Jun 28 at 22:38 Reply +/- While they might not be fantasies you continue to seem to have the delusion that the sixers made these moves in the hopes of fielding a competitive team next year...they did not...no matter how much you want it to be so - no matter how much anything thinks this is 'good' for evan turner - the sixers management is going to build a team that even on its best day is going to win as few games as possible - if they break the 9-73 record they will consider it a success What's childish is that you ignore the reality because yo udon't want it to be true but the sixers are tanking - accept it already - 99.99% of the NBA world has the last .01% is just blind buke reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 16:01 Reply +/- Why you bring up Turner I don't know. I don't care whether he is with the Sixers or some other team. If I want to follow Turner's career in the future I can easily do so regardless of team because I subscribe to League Pass which is the only way I get to watch the Sixers. This is very easy. The team has about 10 players on the roster if you include the draftees. The GM will need to acquire additional players and he may acquire more new additions than that if he manages to unload some others. Somehow I just don't think that acquiring the worst players he can will hold as much appeal to him as some imagine. Now do us both a favor and leave me alone. Otherwise I promise you that this will turn ugly. Stan on Jun 28 at 18:43 Reply +/- “It’s a great organization. They’ve got an All-Star point guard in Jrue Holiday. Definitely looking forward to that,” he told a throng of reporters in the Barclay Center’s media room. HAHA Dollar Bill on Jun 28 at 18:49 Reply +/- So, in any event, what this amounts to, when push comes to shove, all things being equal, barring anything unforeseen, in this zero sum game, false choices removed, Philadelphia personnel changes have taken place due to a hyper-aggressive secret agent on draft night and a heretofore fumbling ownership's obvious blessing; fantasy league jockeying, emceed by David Stern of Madison Avenue & Sunset Boulevard. Philadelphia loses the generally popular Jrue Holiday (who takes his lost professional innocence and flashing talent to New Orleans) and a forty-some million contract obligation off its books. Philadelphia gains a tall but incomplete Syracuse Orangeman PG (beware: Syracuse, for all its media-connected hoopla, has trained 39 NBA players, only 4 have averaged 30 mpg...Bing, Coleman, Seikaly, Anthony; keep in mind Pearl Washington, Sherman Douglas & Jonny Flynn are Boeheim's cream of historical PG crop), an athletic swizzle stick "defensive savant" (one that 5 talent needy teams passed on!) with a mending knee & a 'closed for construction' offensive game, and a top 3 protected 2014 #1 draft selection. Executive effort shown. Civic project taking some vague form. Rubbernecking increase evident. Union workers Thad Young, Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner taking note, wondering of future turns. If Hinkie didn't buy his suits from Krass Brothers, he wuz robbed! Tastykake cakes and pies! Roll with Amoroso's! If it's Frank's - THANKS! buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 28 at 19:32 Reply +/- Well done! Good point about Syracuse players. They have an uncanny ability to become players who are less than what meets the eye. You might be a little unfair to Sherman Douglass by lumping him with Pearl Washington and Jonny Flynn, though. I do wonder what the GM plans next month for the holdovers. He may decide to perform a more thorough cultural cleansing. Dollar Bill reply to buke on Jun 28 at 20:00 Reply +/- Thanks, buke. "General" Sherman WAS top of that trio, but never NBA primo. Career: .075 WS48. 111 DRtg. Likable though; competitive, always knew where 'the hole' was. Rich reply to Dollar Bill on Jun 28 at 20:21 Reply +/- Did you like the trade? sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 19:08 Reply +/- in what should come as no surprise Kwame Brown has exercised his $2.95M player option Dollar Bill reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 28 at 19:20 Reply +/- That's a helluva lot of exercise. I'm not sure he's up to it. Kwame: poster manchild for madness of Stern's Capital-Come-Forth NBA. Stan on Jun 28 at 19:52 Reply +/- So after trading Jrue and assuming that they renounce their rights to Bynum, the Sixers should have about $18 million in cap space this season. 6 teams are projected to pay the luxury tax this year- Boston, New York, Brooklyn, Miami, Golden State, and Chicago. 2 teams- Houston and Dallas are trying to clear cap space in order to acquire the premiere free agents on the market. I don't think the Sixers will be major players in free agency for the next 2 years. Even though the majority of teams in the NBA have a ton of cap space for 2014, there are teams out there that might be interested in the $19 million in expirings that the Sixers have this year. Also Thaddeus Young is only 25 years old is a pretty decent trade piece. Hinkie definitely has a lot to work with. I'm really exited to see what he does. Going into this draft I wanted the Sixers to re-sign Bynum and try to build a championship roster with a core of Holiday, Young and Bynum. However I'm kind of happy with the direction they moved in. There were just too many uncertainties with Bynum's health, Jrue's development, and Young's compatibility. AaronMckie4MVP on Jun 29 at 6:58 Reply +/- im really happy the Sixers blew it up. ive never been impressed with 44 wins and that seemed to be the goal for the franchise for the last and next 10 years. i like Jrue, but we have to face facts that team was going nowhere i havent posted in years- GoSixers is spot on - at least they have a plan. no one knows if it will work, but its a plan with a lot of upside. Noel is a smart gamble - if we were willing to put $18mm at risk for bynum, putting $4per yr at risk is nothing. we should know in 2 seasons whether or not he has real potential. and at that point, even if a bust, its not a bad contract. and we just cut bait the following year. GoSixers on Jun 29 at 11:25 Reply +/- The rumors pages now get more interesting to read in my mind. For instance, Sam Amico says the Cavs need a center, the sixers have a (so-called) center that people around the league seem to think doesn't suck and isn't massively over paid. GoSixers on Jun 29 at 12:42 Reply +/- The person who was inaccurately confirmed as the new sixers head coach supposedly has a huge interest in the Celtics job (a Celtics fan from childhood). I have to wonder if a hand shake agreement was in place but not planned to be announced until draft night and then the clippers/celtics drama went down and Brown had second thoughts GoSixers on Jun 29 at 13:38 Reply +/- Hey tk - are you out there? I don't know if it's kinesiology or physiology or whatever but is there anyway to assuage my worry that Nerlens Noel's legs from the knee down are just 'too skinny' to carry much more than 230/240 lbs without causing more injury risk? HendrikDB reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 14:20 Reply +/- None at all if he works hard on his knee muscle balance. The better your quadriceps/hamstrings etc are trained; the less prone you are to injures. Adding a lot of proprioceptic excercices will be needed to secure his ligamentory safety (I'm a doctor next year). GoSixers reply to HendrikDB on Jun 29 at 14:23 Reply +/- So - that also means he shouldn't have issues adding muscle even though his legs remind me of Sam Dalembert? HendrikDB reply to GoSixers on Jun 29 at 16:35 Reply +/- Noel seems a lot more athletic build, at least compared to Dalembert. But that's all guessing based on pictures and videos. HendrikDB reply to HendrikDB on Jun 29 at 16:35 Reply +/- *built The Six reply to HendrikDB on Jun 29 at 16:48 Reply +/- Dalembert, I believe was in the 230lb - 240lb range when he came out. The Six on Jun 29 at 14:47 Reply +/- I love this trade. Absolutely love it. And unlike others, I believe I will actually have an easier time watching this team win 16 games next year than I did watching the product this past season. The fact that there is now light at the end of the tunnel, and not in the form of a train conducted by Andrew Bynum, means a lot to me. There is a very clear path now. Re: Noel, for those who watched him regularly (I didn't), do you have concerns that he won't be able to stick at center because of his weight? Does that even matter? I know his elite athletic and defensive abilities can compensate for a lot, but I was curious if folks think he'll get pushed around. Greg reply to The Six on Jun 29 at 14:53 Reply +/- Yes that's exactly my feelings also :) Bob reply to The Six on Jun 29 at 15:39 Reply +/- Well, he's about the same ht and wt as Bill Walton, who was by far the dominant defensive player of his era until he was immobilized by ankle injury. Greg reply to The Six on Jun 29 at 15:46 Reply +/- As far as noel I'm not sure pushing guys around is really the landscape of the nba right now. I'd be more interested in a center that can get up and block shots from guys like derick rose or lebron. Just my opinion, and for certain opponents you very well could be right. I haven't watched him play either Xsago reply to The Six on Jun 29 at 21:00 Reply +/- I think he will get pushed around to a degree, but that doesn't mean he won't be an excellent defensive center. The modern NBA is predominantly P&R based an Noel has the talent to be the best P&R defensive big in the NBA one day. He will struggle a bit against postup oriented teams (and bigs) but there are not many like that in the NBA right now (even less if Bynum is done for good). Greg on Jun 29 at 14:51 Reply +/- Yeah i haven't been this excited about the team's future in a while. I really think the team was getting stale and needed some fresh blood. New gm. New coach. Why not get some new players too and build a strong team the right way? I like this a lot more than most bottom dwellers because 1 he aquired a lot of first rounders, giving us extra chances of landing a star, and even if not a star those extra players will provide depth so we don't dwell there for too long 2 everyone here has convinced me that this draft is deep enough where even the 2nd or 3rd pick will have a good chance at being a star, making this a perfect time to rebuild/tank Also, homegrown talent is important and these guys can grow together and compete more than usual, because there are so many picks. I'm loving this more and more. Never thought anyone would trade away jrue, but like brian said the return was very good. I personally will enjoy watching the new players more, even if they perform worse, because i'd like to see the young players finally get opportunities to become good players in this league (unlike voose speights etc) Greg on Jun 29 at 14:55 Reply +/- I also keep wishing we could somehow use those second rounders after next year's lottery to move our pelicans pick up even further in the first round. Is that unrealistic? Maybe we could throw in a player, pelicans pick, and a second round pick to end up with the top 2 picks in the draft :) then our odds of landing a star would look pretty good Greg reply to Greg on Jul 2 at 22:28 Reply +/- After further consideration i've decided that we likely wont be able to move up more than a few spots unless we give up too much. (possibly from 9 to 6, or 6 to 4 if we put together a good package). We'll have to wait to see where that pick ends up, but nevertheless i like the idea of trying to move up later to make those 2 first rounders as high as possible. I'm sure he will try, but i'm not confident he'll be able to move up much. TwoSense on Jun 29 at 19:26 Reply +/- This so-called new direction has me kind of iffy. I find myself frequently wondering just how many years of futility the franchise will actually have to go through. Bad habits can develop quickly, even moreso with younger, less mature players. Hardnosed veterans will be a must just from the standpoint of stemming the tides of continual negativity that will often pop up. Even if the quasi best case scenario comes to fruition with a top 3 draft pick next year, the chances of the hopeful star reaching his maximum potential all while meshing with the existing still-young pups typically is still several years off, if then. Prayers galore for the yet selected coach during this transition. And while we're at it, infinite prayers for diehard fans, infinite. The 90's vividly come to mind. tk76 reply to TwoSense on Jun 30 at 7:18 Reply +/- I think the hope is that they add a ton of talent with their 4 lottery picks from this and next year's draft. Then the use their 38M in cap space to sign two young max FA. So the max contract stars propel the team to near contention as soon as 2014/5 and if one of the 4 lottery guys is also that level star then you might be in the run for a title within 2-3 years and be great for a long time. That is the plan. Whether it can be executed it quite a long-shot- but it makes the team worth following. tk76 reply to tk76 on Jun 30 at 7:26 Reply +/- Looking at 2014 FA there is not really a true top 10 player who will change teams aside from Lebron, since most of the top options are RFAs. So I guess you would need another player to force a trade- which again is why you want lots of cap space and assets. Looking ahead at 2015, it does not look promissing. But then again, who is going to force a trade to the Sixers anytime soon. Ryan on Jun 30 at 2:33 Reply +/- Jrue would've been a good player to get AFTER we got the #1 star (like Anthony Davis) that we needed. Having him BEFORE getting that player made it far less likely that we could actually get that player. Xsago on Jun 30 at 6:47 Reply +/- Collins wanted to give Kwame a 5 year 30 million dollar deal prior to the lockout??#$@#$@$!.... http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20130630_The_76ers__What_went_wrong.html Brian reply to Xsago on Jun 30 at 9:46 Reply +/- That sounds insane to me, but who knows. Mitchell is a complete hack. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jun 30 at 12:19 Reply +/- Well Bodner seems to be less of a hack and followed up with this Now, from what I understand, that's not exactly true. I was told by a source with knowledge of the situation last week that Collins did, in fact, offer push to sign Kwame Brown to a long term deal, although I was told that the contract he wanted to offer was 4 years, $20 million deal. In fact, with the new collective bargaining agreement signed after the 2011 NBA lockout, the Sixers could not have offered Brown a 5 year contract. Rusty on Jun 30 at 9:57 Reply +/- I think it will be interesting to see what other moves we make this offseason. The first move(s) by Hinkie are in line with the strategy in Houston. Obviously I want this team to have the most success down the line but I realize that, in Hinkie's style, we are likely to lose guys over and over to trades in the coming years. Where some teams put a premium on "homegrown" or "loyalty", I don't think Hinkie will ever apply that to his player value system. Hinkie clearly "sold high" on Holiday and that is what the Rockets were great at. There is a good article out there which looks at what Houston did with Lowry, Brooks and some others. Basically putting them in the best position to succeed, boosting their values, and then dealing them at the top. Theoretically, Turner, Young and Hawes are in the best position to benefit from Holiday's absence. Unfortunately, I don't think Turner will really do much in this position. I think what you see (have seen) is what you get and I can't see his production really getting a level where we get back much in value. Maybe some role player territory draft picks. Young is in a very interesting spot. Part of his value is that he doesn't try to do too much (imo). With the changes, he will obviously be asked to do more. I do think he could be an interesting asset to deal come deadline or if a multi-team trade is going down and he can be a piece of value to make it work. Hawes probably gets hurt without Holiday. Not that Jrue made him that much better but I don't see where he will grow in Jrue's absence. You can't teach height, and even though he is a sissy, I still expect interest in him from that standpoint. The way I see the trade from a "asset value" perspective is that you made 4 adjustments to your team: 1. Give up Jrue - losing most valuable asset 2. Get Noel - arguable top draft pick at cheaper level, high potential (good value) 3. Get top 5 protected pick next year - high risk asset but still good value 4. Increased the value of your own draft pick next year - cannot ignore that this was a consequence of the move. From a portfolio standpoint, I really think the sixers did a good job. I hate to think that we could easily watch a guy like Noel or MCW have 2 great years and look promising only to ship them off for new picks/assets and start the cycle again. But that is what I will expect with the end goal of "winning" down the line. das411 reply to Rusty on Jun 30 at 11:13 Reply +/- back when the new Tampa Bay Rays owners took over that team, their first big move was to trade a former #1 pick that other teams were overvaluing as part of a big trade to the Twins, which netted them RHP Matt Garza and SS Jason Bartlett - two above-average players who were keys to their AL champion team in 08...before flipping Garza and Bartlett for 2-3 other prospects to keep them in perpetual rebuild-while-still-at-90-wins mode...this Jrue deal may or may not be the start of something similar mymannerlens on Jun 30 at 11:28 Reply +/- I absolutely love the deal, even if it necessitates a change in my handle. As others have said-it is really nice to see the Sixers embarked on a clear path-the organization is on the same page, their goal is long term success, they have a plan that they think is their best shot at getting there. Time will tell is that plan is a success and of course there's a fair amount of luck involved byt damn-AT LEAST IT'S AN ETHOS. I for one am going to enjoy attending the hell out of Sixers home games this coming season-cheap seats, small but hardcore crowds, and some intriguing young pieces. I am by no means an expert in player evaluation-I do not watch a lot of regular season college ball-I don't know these guys as well as some of you guys do, and I always appreciate reading the analysis of the better informed(Xsago, your knowledge in this area, for one, is a real asset to the discussion here; thanks) but-I LOVE Nerlens. Just love him. Love his hair, even. I think he's got the chance to be a special player. Ideally, he is a defensive anchor, rebounder, dunker, roll man, and next year we draft the perimeter stud with superstar potential to team him with. Of course, that may not work out. If it doesn't, you go to plan b. No plan is assured of success. I like this one. I'm really intrigued by MCW as well...the Rondo comps, and the scouting I've read about him being a dynamic passer with rare floor vision-the upside intrigues me. Just aesthetically, that is the type of point guard play I must enjoy watching and I always found Jrue lacking in those areas. Obviously MCW has big and well known holes, but-it's the 11th pick in a weak draft. I am very optimistic about the eventual coaching hire. I'm expecting an emphasis on player development! I loved watching Jrue grow into a damn good basketball player and it's sad to see him go in that sense-but he was the wrong player for this team, and he finds himself in a situation where he's got a great chance to thrive, playing with Davis-and alongside Vazquez and Gordon(?). Be interesting to see how he responds-last year was a perfect situation for him to put up gaudy counting stats, and he got himself on an all star team and his shoe commercial was on ten times a night during the Finals. This year, he is in a situation where his talents can be accentuated and his weaknesses minimized, to a degree-and he should become key contributor to a core that has a chance grow into a winner. But the counting stats will be down, the all star game is distinctly unlikely, and combine those facts with the fact that new orleans is a much smaller market than Philly and I gotta think the endorsement market will cool dramatically for Jrue. I got rubbed the wrong way this past year, at times, perceiving Jrue to be too focused on individual honors like an All Star berth, and generally playing a lot of ugly, over dribbling, offensive basketball. Certainly he can't be blamed for trying to salvage some individual success and career advancement from a doomed season, and some of the 1-5 play was just a matter of circumstance-in many games, he was our only decent player. Anyway-it will be interesting to monitor Jrue next year-I think the situation in New Orleans is theoretically pretty perfectly suited for Jrue to fit his talents into-much more so than the "star" role Collins pushed him into-I hope to see Jrue thrive GoSixers on Jun 30 at 12:22 Reply +/- Dear Andre Please don't sign in New Orleans - Please oh Please oh Please Jason reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 13:08 Reply +/- It's ok Brian, we understand if you become a Pelicans fan. Stan reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 15:23 Reply +/- It would be cool if the Sixers take back another player's salary so that team can sign Iguodala and prevent him from going to New Orleans. Andrei Kerilinko is also a free agent. sander reply to GoSixers on Jun 30 at 16:10 Reply +/- If the money is equal, Iguodala would be silly to leave Denver right now. They had one of the best records in the second half of the season before Gallinari got injured. Their core is relatively young, closer to contention than New Orleans, and AI would still get to handle the ball more for the Nuggets than he would on this new Pelicans team. It's not like I want New Orleans to miss the playoffs or anything, I just want what's best for Andre. :) sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 12:43 Reply +/- according to Derek that kwame brown thing is true expect it was a 4 year deal not 5 spencer is hired on Jun 30 at 13:21 Reply +/- I would like to see Thad put at the 3 and told to shoot the jumper this year so Moultrie gets an extended look at the 4. It could turn out and Thad becomes part of our future or add to our loss column. Give Evan the ball and one last chance to become what he was at Ohio St. with either a pleasant surprise, or again more losses. If Noel is a 4 than a center with ball skills will be needed, so Spence may have a role in the future frontcourt, to the dismay of most on here. I would like to see a couple of low priced free agent signings of guys that could have a role down the road yet won't add many wins now. L.Babbit and P.Mills are 2 guys I would look at if they would sign low priced deals. And fill the roster with guys like Southerland and R. Williams [Minnesota] and hope the develop into something. Tray reply to spencer is hired on Jun 30 at 15:32 Reply +/- I think it's hard to develop role players on a 15-win team. They get asked to do too much and don't develop as role players. das411 on Jun 30 at 13:27 Reply +/- what use is speculating on what free agents he'll sign though when the MO could easily be picking up deadweight contracts (along with picks to get rid of them) from teams that need to clear space now? spencer is hired reply to das411 on Jun 30 at 13:52 Reply +/- I just think putting people in the seats remains a part of the equation and a mix of young players may make it more bearable to watch. Although moving the last long deal [Thad] should be expected. GoSixers reply to spencer is hired on Jun 30 at 14:07 Reply +/- I don't think putting people in the seats matters for next season - next season is about developing two or three young guys and maximizing your chances at Wiggins. The rest is whatever sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 18:48 Reply +/- knicks are trading for Bargnani TOR gets camby, novak, 2016 first round pick and 2 future 2nd round picks Tray reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 19:43 Reply +/- For the Knicks this is strange. More importantly, it seems to at least suggest (along with the Bledsoe talks) that Toronto isn't tanking, which is good news. Stan reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 21:48 Reply +/- How does that even work salary wise? NYK is well over the cap Stan reply to Stan on Jun 30 at 21:55 Reply +/- Novak and Camby make a combined $8.6 million...waaaaht?? I thought both of those guy were on veteran minimumms. sixerfan1220 reply to Stan on Jun 30 at 21:55 Reply +/- @HowardBeckNYT 24m UPDATE: Knicks trade for Bargnani will NOT be approved by NBA tonight. As a result, teams will have to restructure under 2013-14 cap figures sixerfan1220 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 21:57 Reply +/- @HowardBeckNYT: Knicks and Raps can revive Bargnani deal with NY including minimum-salary player. Deal will still get done Xsago reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 1 at 4:08 Reply +/- Can't believe the Raptors managed to get a first round pick in addition to unloading Bargnani. That guy Masai Ujiri is really good... Xsago reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 4:12 Reply +/- That being said Barnani is an intriguing fit between Chandler and Anthony. But that would mean pushing Stoudemire even further down the depth chart, as well as going away from the "Anthony at PF" lineup that was so successful for them last year. sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 20:27 Reply +/- @WojYahooNBA 52s Houston has traded Thomas Robinson to the Portland Trail Blazers, league source tells Y! Sports sixerfan1220 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 20:31 Reply +/- @WojYahooNBA 1m Portland will send Houston two future second-round picks and the draft rights to two foreign players, league sources tells Y! Stan reply to sixerfan1220 on Jun 30 at 22:22 Reply +/- I'm surprised that the Sixers didn't make that trade considering that they have 3-2nd round picks in next year's draft along with $21 million in cap space. Stan reply to Stan on Jun 30 at 22:27 Reply +/- I'm guessing that they didn't do this because doing so would require them to renounce their bird rights to Bynum thereby preventing a sign and trade? Brian reply to Stan on Jul 1 at 0:00 Reply +/- They have a big trade exception from the Jrue deal, right? Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 4:00 Reply +/- Nope. Jrue's extension kicked in today. He was traded with his rookie deal in place. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 6:51 Reply +/- Wasn't his salary last year big enough to absorb Robinson's contract? Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 8:45 Reply +/- It probably was considering it's a match with the 6th pick in the draft this year. Noel's salary needs to match with Jrue's. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 8:49 Reply +/- You sure that's the case (Noel's salary matching?) Thought you didn't need to match pick salaries if the trade was made before 7/1. Figured NOP had the cap space to absorb Jrue's contract and this would create an exception. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 10:48 Reply +/- I thought Jrue's trade wasn't official until the start of free agency? Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 10:57 Reply +/- Is that the case? If it is, then Jrue's extension is the # they're absorbing and the Sixers have $9M trade exception to play w/ for a year. Brian reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:10 Reply +/- Yeah, I guess that's why there's no mention of the trade on Sixers.com. That's pretty big for the Sixers. Means they could absorb a decent contract during the draft next year. Or if they make some big moves in free agency next summer, they could add another piece using the exception. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:12 Reply +/- I'm not sure but I remember that they couldn't ask specific questions about it because it hadn't officially happened yet...I don't know when it becomes official but I just thought it was after July 1 Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 11:17 Reply +/- hmmn. I guess they have to sign Noel, first. That makes the exception smaller. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:28 Reply +/- When in doubt, hope Derek has written something :) The first year of Jrue Holiday's extension is set to kick in this season, causing his salary jump up to $9.2 million. Noel, the only player the 76ers received back in the deal which will impact their salary situation this season, will receive approximately $2.9 million when he signs, creating over $6 million in additional cap space the 76ers can use this offseason. Xsago reply to Stan on Jul 1 at 4:07 Reply +/- I'm glad they didn't make it. T-Rob is extremely overrated. HE's useless... Tray on Jul 1 at 0:18 Reply +/- A point about Houston's pursuit of Howard. Last time I checked, Houston already has a fine defensive center. When Asik was on the court, Houston played like the 10th best defensive team in the league; when he was off, they played like the 28th. This would tend to indicate that Houston's defensive problems, which I take it are what holds them back from contention, are caused by everyone but their center being a sieve, which is something bringing in a better center can't fix. I'll grant you that when he's totally healthy Howard is a bit better of a defensive player than Asik, but rushing to get Howard is a little like someone thinking that Houston's real problem is that it's built around Harden instead of a truly transcendent offensive superstar like Durant. What they really need are some perimeter defenders. tk76 reply to Tray on Jul 1 at 1:14 Reply +/- When healthy, Howard is a completely different level of defender as compared to Asik. Howard deters guys from even attempting to drive because they don't want their egos dented by a Sportscenter worthy block. Plus he is a t truly dominant rebounder. Plus adding another high profile star makes you a super team and that helps you add cheap effective vets. Brian reply to tk76 on Jul 1 at 8:44 Reply +/- Think the second point is more valid than the first, sadly. Howard makes them better, probably not $10M/year better, but better. Getting Howard makes it much more likely a guy like Iguodala will force a sign-and-trade there, or something like that. Or maybe Tony Allen signs for the MLE. No one would clamor to join Asik in Houston. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 8:49 Reply +/- Actually if Howards signs in Houston (which is his best option IMO)i think it's very likely Houston unloads Asik and Lin and signs Josh Smith as well. They will be looking at a lineup of Harden/Parsons/Smith/Howard if that happens. They will still need a PG, but that looks like the makings of a serious contender for the next 3-4 years at least IMO. Tray reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:49 Reply +/- Why wouldn't people clamor to join Harden in Houston? After LeBron and Durant there isn't a better scorer in the league right now, and he's a pretty willing passer too. And what evidence is there that players actually like playing with Howard? Judging by player comments and all the leaks re: his behavior, he seemed to be extremely unpopular in the Lakers locker room, the Magic locker room, the All-Star locker room this year.... Brian reply to Tray on Jul 1 at 11:51 Reply +/- Do people typically clamor to join 8 seeds that get knocked out in the first round? If so, the Sixers should've been able to land somebody in the past decade. Having two superstars is a much easier sell to contributing players looking for a spot to sign, and no matter what happened in LA, Howard is a superstar. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:56 Reply +/- Harden is considered a super star on the rise, no one on the sixers was ever considered that. And don't for the 'massive' (quotes because it's not as big as the media wants you to think) benefit from no state income tax in Texas. Of course, you have to live in texas, which aside from austin is to me the equivalent of living in Deliverance country Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 11:58 Reply +/- I didn't really care for Austin. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 12:01 Reply +/- Yeah well, I think we have slightly different interest bases outside of Basketball :) Right now I'm putting my resume out there willing to move a lot of places though most of Texas, south of Virginia and deserts (snakes) are off the list :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 12:01 Reply +/- If I was running the rockets, I'd go for Dwight, then sign-and-trade Asik for Smith. Sign Iguodala. Sign and trade Lin for Calderon. Calderon, Harden, Iguodala, Smith, Howard. Probably the worst defensive backcourt in the league, and the best defensive frontcourt. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 12:03 Reply +/- Well supposedly the Rockets actually want Caldeorn (rumors rumors everywhere) if they can land Dwight, but the Pistons don't want lin. Not sure the Hawks would want to take on Asik, I mean - if you're not using your cap space this offseason, most teams should just sit on as much as they can with one year deals for next year is my opinion. Asik ain't turning around the Hawks. Once they sign dwight do they have 10 mil offer Iguodala? Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 12:13 Reply +/- Actually, no. Looks like they have $36M against the cap after the Robinson trade. Dwight would move them up to $56M. They'd need to move Asik or Lin to create enough room to sign Iguodala. Then work a sign-and-trade for Smith. No way they could get all three guys, I don't think, unless one of them was willing to take the mini-MLE (which is like $2.5M). GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 12:31 Reply +/- I get the feeling I'm not the only one with the week off ;) In good tanking news, the pelicans seem more interested in Tyreke than Iguodala :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 12:36 Reply +/- That's excellent news. And no, don't have the week off. Checking in between running numbers. Mind keeps wandering to the sixers. Tray reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 13:06 Reply +/- Houston isn't exactly deliverance country. NBA players love Houston, it's filled with some of the country's best strip clubs, a huge rap scene, etc. Not to stereotype NBA players' interests, but it definitely is an appealing city to many of the players in the league. And yes, you're right, Harden is a superstar, the Sixers never had one. Tray reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 14:26 Reply +/- What GoSixers said. Also, you may recall how the Clippers, historically an incredibly unpopular franchise with players, turned into a destination simply by being a promising lottery team with a lot of Griffin-driven buzz. I think Iguodala is probably intelligent enough to realize that Houston would be pretty close to contention if they added him to the mix. Xsago on Jul 1 at 4:24 Reply +/- http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Report_Rockets_target_Sixers_in_potential_trade_involving_center_Omer_Asik.html This isn't too surprising to me. Hinkie was widely assumed to be behind the Asik signing, last year. sfw on Jul 1 at 8:53 Reply +/- What is a realistic trade proposal for Asik? Not sure that Asik & Noel are a good match due to their offensive deficiencies. Brian reply to sfw on Jul 1 at 9:22 Reply +/- Hawes/Kwame. Turner/Lavoy. Either of those packages works. Of course, they could also renounce their bird rights for Bynum and take him for nothing if Houston wants to just clear cap space. Brian reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 9:23 Reply +/- I'm against all of these moves, btw. Don't think they should do anything this year that could possibly lead to more wins. Asik's a nice piece, but getting him would probably make it harder to get the main piece. sfw reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 9:28 Reply +/- Don't disagree. Just wondering. I believe his salary is uniquely structured(most paid at the backend of the deal). Not sure of the cap implications. Brian reply to sfw on Jul 1 at 9:47 Reply +/- Think he counts for $8.3M against the cap. It's averaged. sfw reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 9:55 Reply +/- We have the players to satisfy their salary demand. sfw reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 9:57 Reply +/- We have the players to satisfy their salary demand. Brian reply to sfw on Jul 1 at 10:02 Reply +/- If they're doing it, the demand would be to create cap space to sign someone else and/or get better fitting piece(s) for Asik. If they get Dwight, I bet their first call would be to ATL to see if they want Asik in a sign-and-trade for Josh Smith. If they don't get Dwight, they might be interested in Asik in a sign-and-trade for Bynum. sfw reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 10:23 Reply +/- thx for clarifying. makes sense. Either way they will have added a major diva. sfw reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 10:26 Reply +/- thx for clarifying. makes sense. Either way they will have added a major diva. Tray reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:17 Reply +/- I just can't see playing him and Noel together, so I don't know why you'd do it. I think if you traded Thad we'd still be the worst or second worst team in the NBA, even with Asik. Brian reply to Tray on Jul 1 at 11:40 Reply +/- They'd be far and away the worst offense in the league if you essentially swapped Thad for Asik. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 11:44 Reply +/- All this speculation about Asik seems based on He was in Houston Hinkie was in Houston. He takes up 8+ million dollars past the 13/14 season...if the flexibility tanking model is to be believed Asik makes NO sense whatsoever. Just run kwame brown out there every night and you'll be just as bad without unnecessarily paying a player through 2014 Just seems to me to be writers connecting dots while ignoring evidence Stan on Jul 1 at 10:34 Reply +/- The salary cap floor for this season is $49 million. As of right now the Sixers have to spend about $10 million in order to avoid paying a penalty. The weird thing is that the majority of teams in the NBA are under the salary cap already (about 19) and even more teams will be under the cap the following year. It used to be that each year only 2 or 3 teams were players in free agency. Expiring contracts aren't worth much. Brian reply to Stan on Jul 1 at 12:53 Reply +/- $5M/1yr to Nick Young. $5M/1yr to some scrub backup PG, like Patty Mills or Shaun Livingston. MCT reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:31 Reply +/- isn't Nick Young being investigated for a date rape allegation? I know he's innocent until proven guilty but I think I would stay away from him over that Brian reply to MCT on Jul 1 at 13:52 Reply +/- Heard that was bogus, but signing a guy about to go to jail would be a positive IMO. Maybe just give Aron Hernandez $10M/1yr. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:58 Reply +/- Nick Young says they are bogus The cops are not filing chrages But there is a civil suit whose status I'm unaware of Somehow I think the even the NBA has a 'if he goes to prison he don't get paid' clause I'd sign Nick Young cause he sucks Brian reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 13:47 Reply +/- btw, they should let Dorell walk. I don't want him being decent and helping them every night, and winning a couple games by himself when he gets hot from three. joeykey reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 22:54 Reply +/- OK, so let's say that Hinkie put the team in a direction in which we as fans have to buy into the tank approach. So then, what kind of coach should we want? A Johhny Davis, or a Phil Jackson? A Jackson would aptly develop young players desperately in need of direction, but possibly cost us many needed losses, whereas a Davis would maximize losses, at the risk of turning all the young guy into a Demarcus Cousins zombie army. Brian reply to joeykey on Jul 1 at 23:05 Reply +/- I want a bad coach. I want Eddie Jordan. A stiff I can throw to the wolves for a year or two. Get a good big man as an assistant whose only job is to work with Noel. I'd probably have him live with Noel, and go down with him to Delaware and coach him there as well. Greg reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 22:18 Reply +/- I guess thats one way to gaurantee the team is bad but hiring and fireing doesnt seem necessary to me. if possible i'd rather have a coach that embraces playing a lot of young players and trying them in different roles and other things that could result in a worse record this year, simply having the same end goal as the organization. Stan reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 14:09 Reply +/- I want them to go out and sign young players on cheap deals and hope that they can have break out seasons.- Chase Budinger, Al-Farouq Aminu, Wayne Ellington, Omri Casspi, Earl Clark, Luke Babbit, Austin Daye, DeJuan Blair, and James Johnson GoSixers reply to Stan on Jul 1 at 14:13 Reply +/- Why would you want them to have break out seasons? Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 14:24 Reply +/- I'd go ahead and give a couple of em a shot as long as the deals aren't long term. I think it's unlikely any of those guys will really help the Sixers pull themselves out of the top 3 picks next season. Plus you have to surround MCW and Noel with SOME useful bodies to help them develop. Though I may just be saying this because I want this team to at least be moderately watchable. Xsago reply to Stan on Jul 1 at 14:43 Reply +/- I agree with this approach. It's all about assets. And young guys who have a breakout season are assets. You might even be able to flip them for a pick at the trade deadline. That's huge. Lets face it, the team is already bad enough to tank as it is. They overachieved a bit last year and the downgrade from Jrue to MCW is huge. This current roster won't win more than 25 games. And that's a top 5 pick and a realistic chance at #1. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 14:46 Reply +/- Young GUys who have breakout seasons also 'cost you' losses Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 14:48 Reply +/- The team is bad enough to be able to withstand a boost of a few wins by a breakout guy. Especially if Thad gets traded... Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 14:51 Reply +/- I disagree with this concept. If they don't lose the most games next season, I'll consider Hinkie's personnel moves a failure. Finishing with the fifth-worst record isn't good enough. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 14:58 Reply +/- There is no way to assure that the team will lose the most games. And i absolutely don't think the team should throw games away on purpose. I think they should have a bunch of very young guys play and learn through their mistakes possibly with a few others that might fit the "asset" description as long as the goal is to trade the assets mid-season or even at the end of it. This is not Wiggins or bust. There are 5-6 players worth going after. Who knows which one will end up as the best. Xsago reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 15:00 Reply +/- Oh yeah, and strip Thad off this current roster and you are looking at a 15 win team. That's worst in the league by far. If you add a couple of guys who will get you 2-3 wins more, that's still one of the worst 3 teams in the league... If you can use them to acquire a first rounder, it's worthed. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 15:05 Reply +/- This "there are 5 or 6 good players" logic is flawed. We don't know who's going to look the best at draft time next summer, but we do know the Sixers won't be guaranteed the opportunity to draft whichever one they think is best unless they win the lottery. And we do know they'll have the best chance to win the lottery if they lose the most games. If they sign Chase Budinger, and he has a breakout season which takes them from the worst record to the second-worst record, that's a failure. Brian reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 15:08 Reply +/- Also, as far as I'm concerned, Noel is the only guy on the roster right now whose development matters at all, and his health matters more than his development. All the rest of them can be trotted out there to play their Washington Generals role as far as I'm concerned, MCW included. I'm hoping they'll be winless in December when Noel is ready to come back. Brian reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 15:14 Reply +/- I'd prefer it if Noel had no basketball activities until the Sixers are on the ice capades trip, then he gets his legs under him with the 87ers until mid-february. Then maybe give him 10-15 minutes a game until the worst record in the league is locked down, then go wild. Tray reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 15:32 Reply +/- I really don't think Noel is going to have this huge positive impact at the outset. If we're in danger of being passed by the Bobcats or some tanking team, we can always take appropriate measures. Looking around though, I don't see a lot of tankers. Phoenix is a potential contestant, and Boston, and Charlotte always is (surely Zeller won't help them much), but I don't think Washington, Cleveland or Orlando should give us much trouble. Court_visioN reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 18:36 Reply +/- With the lottery system I don't know that it's that big a deal to get the 2nd worst record vs. the worst... we're talking like a 5% difference right? GoSixers reply to Court_visioN on Jul 1 at 18:45 Reply +/- 5.1 actually but there's a 64.3% chance of being in the top 3 versus a 55.8% chance of being in the top 3 between the #1 and #2 pick Every little bit helps - period GoSixers reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 18:50 Reply +/- Things you didn't know you didnt know while doing research. The sixers had a 33+% chance of getting the #1 pick in 1996 because two teams in the lottery were not eligible to get it. Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 13:20 Reply +/- Isn't there something to be said in acquiring tradeable assets, though? GoSixers reply to Court_visioN on Jul 2 at 13:22 Reply +/- Well yeah, but the point was that 'there's little difference between #1 and #2 in the lottery' that's the point I disagree with - if you're trying to tank you want to tank better than anyone else and need to balance that need versus the assets you acquire Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 13:28 Reply +/- Sure. I guess the question is "is Chase Budinger worth costing the Sixers a couple wins, which may or may not be the difference between the #1 and #2 seed?" I just think that acquiring assets is just as important as getting that extra 5-10% chance... that's just my opinion though. GoSixers reply to Court_visioN on Jul 2 at 13:34 Reply +/- That all depends on what you see as the difference between Wiggins (the presumptive #1) and whomever you'd choose at #2 I guess. If you don't see much difference, not a big deal, if you do, then that 5% gets bigger Brian reply to Court_visioN on Jul 2 at 13:37 Reply +/- Trade assets are less important to a team without the core piece(s) and a ton of cap space. Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 18:57 Reply +/- Fair enough, that's a pretty significant margin. Falling out of the top 3 would be disastrous. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 1 at 14:56 Reply +/- What Brian said GoSixers on Jul 1 at 11:19 Reply +/- I think Thad will get traded once all those teams with cap room miss out on who they want, they'll be GM's desperate to add to their rosters, and Hinkie will be able to pounce with a value playet GoSixers on Jul 1 at 11:21 Reply +/- A small tidbit that could lead to a bigger thing a couple years down the road is the Chicago let one of their primary assistants go this past week...and suppoedly it wasn't the head coach who made the decision...if Forman is going to start firing Thibodau's assistants without Thibodeaus input - that could be a guy who might go shopping his wares someone else when he can Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 14:44 Reply +/- I read somewhere that Thibodaux and Forman had the worst GM/coach relationship in the league. GoSixers on Jul 1 at 13:59 Reply +/- If the sixers trade for a guy but then buy him out - his cap number still fully applies for the season right? Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 14:46 Reply +/- If it's the last season on his deal, then the negotaited buyout number counts. Unless you're talking about a non-guaranteed, or partially guaranteed contract, in which case the buyout amount counts, which is basically the same thing. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 14:47 Reply +/- As Xasgo sussed out - I'm talking about Marion :) Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 14:46 Reply +/- Yup. Maybe we should root for Howard to pick the Mavs, so that Cuban will be forced to trade Marion into cap space while giving up a first round pick ;) sander on Jul 1 at 15:33 Reply +/- Which teams want to give a draft pick for Thad? We certainly don't need a quality player back, only a bad salary for one season. Stuart reply to sander on Jul 1 at 17:20 Reply +/- My two thoughts are GSW for Biedrins & 2014 1st, assuming they strike out on Dwight, or MIL for Gooden (or LRMAM) + 2014 1st. Biedrins' contract expires this year but MIL would probably give us a better pick. Any thoughts about these? Tray reply to Stuart on Jul 1 at 17:25 Reply +/- Well I can't imagine Milwaukee being so thirsty for Thad that they'd give us a 2014 pick that will probably fall in the 10-15 range. GoSixers reply to Stuart on Jul 1 at 17:25 Reply +/- Not sure you're going to get those picks with anything better than 'lottery' protection on them. Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 17:29 Reply +/- I'd be fine w/ lottery protection on a pick for next year, as long as it winds up being unprotected a couple years down the road. Not one of those "becomes 2 second round picks if not used in 3 years." Those are garbage. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 17:34 Reply +/- You mean like the sixers owe the heat and the magic :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 18:00 Reply +/- yeah, i'm going to laugh when the magic and heat are making their 2nd round picks years down the road. And by that time, Hinkie will have amassed about 300 second round picks in various other meaningless trades. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 1 at 18:15 Reply +/- If hinkies plan works - the magic will get a first round pick from the sixers bt hopefully in the 20s Dollar Bill reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 19:51 Reply +/- Articulate Hinkie's PLAN for me please. He certainly hasn't. An aim at winning much later than opening night is a vision. And wanting players that contribute both boldly and subtly to winning is nothing new under our sun. Obtaining the '14 Pelicans #1 draft pick was a sunny move but what makes his '13 #6 & #11 personnel choices so shining? It's unlikely, but they, the Sixth Noel & Hyphen, could both turn out to be flops or lukewarm agents of change. Hinkie has proven NOTHING but a willingness to operate in stealth, review a losing roster and roll dice towards ?????. Kudos to him for a draft night stir. A judgement on his management wisdom deferred until '15. (Options were abundant.) sander reply to Stuart on Jul 1 at 18:11 Reply +/- I like both of those trades because it makes the Sixers terrible next year, they might not even win fifteen games. Also maybe Utah would like Thad as a replacement if they can't sign Millsap? They could need to add some salary. GoSixers on Jul 1 at 16:42 Reply +/- Pelicans reportedly offered Evans 4 year 40 million - maybe Iguodala told em he wouldn't come there don't waste your time sixerfan1220 reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 16:47 Reply +/- Iguodala is gonna get paid(hes worth more then evans to me) unless he takes less to go houston with dwight GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 1 at 16:53 Reply +/- Well I know he's going to get paid - but he's also better than Tyreke Evans (and PS fits better on the Pelicans roster) He'll get 4 years 45-50 million - but i'd rather that the pelicans sign Evans :) sixerfan1220 reply to GoSixers on Jul 1 at 16:57 Reply +/- also for the pelicans to make it work money wise i think they have trade grevis or gordon and maybe cut lopez Tray reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 1 at 17:12 Reply +/- What about just making it work talent wise? They have Jrue, Gordon and Greivis and they want to sign Evans? I would stick things out with Gordon, personally. Better player. GoSixers reply to Tray on Jul 1 at 17:17 Reply +/- Rumor is two fold 1. Want Evans off the bench 2. Want him to play the three (which supposedly he doesn't want to do) What's nice is that even though the Pelicans have cap room and just got an 'all star' point guard and this great new ownership they're still rudderless it seems Brian reply to Tray on Jul 1 at 17:20 Reply +/- Evans was decent last year, but I don't think he fits w/ that group. Iguodala would fit perfectly. Jrue, Gordon, Iguodala, Anderson and AD. that would've been fun to watch if everyone was healthy. I hope they screw up royally this season. das411 on Jul 1 at 18:17 Reply +/- ...so what if Hinkie is going after Dwight?? GoSixers reply to das411 on Jul 1 at 18:22 Reply +/- If he is - he's on a fools errand sixerfan1220 on Jul 1 at 20:22 Reply +/- maynor to the wizards Dunleavy to the bulls The Six on Jul 1 at 23:46 Reply +/- There are some great clips on You Tube of Andrew Wiggins' and Julius Randle's (possibly picks #1 and #2 in next years draft) teams going head to head in some Nike tourney. Just type in "Wiggins vs Randle". While their "teams" are playing each other, its basically 1 on 1. I expected to be blown away by Wiggins' athleticism (and was), but Randle was almost as impressive. He goes 6' 9 an roughly 225 and he looks like a young Shawn Kemp. Man this is going to be a stacked draft. I can't wait to watch this upcoming college season. Derek Bodner reply to The Six on Jul 2 at 0:59 Reply +/- For all the talk about Parker, I think Randle's the second best prospect in the draft (at least at this point. I reserve the right to change my opinion). Brian reply to Derek Bodner on Jul 2 at 1:23 Reply +/- I'm going to be so pissed if they wind up with Marcus Smart in the draft next year. Xsago reply to The Six on Jul 2 at 4:32 Reply +/- Yeah, from the little i've seen Randle looks like a beast to me. Has a chance to be better than even Wiggins. eddies' heady's reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 8:47 Reply +/- I foresee all this talk about Randle dumbing down quite a bit once the college season kicks into gear. The few times he went up against someone close to his size (which was rare) he struggled. Be interesting to see if he stays with that finesse game at UK or mixes it up more inside. I'd put him at 4th or 5th right now (behind Wiggins, Parker, Gordon) depending on how Andrew Harrison pans out as his teammate at UK. Or if one of the other freshman bigs develops better. Xsago reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 2 at 10:18 Reply +/- You may be right. But i have the same feeling about Parker. We'll see it's way too early. Tray reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 11:16 Reply +/- Me too. eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jul 2 at 20:23 Reply +/- 4 state titles in that beast of a city and beast of a state for high school basketball? That alone doesn't crown the kid but I really liks his game from the few times I've seen him. Why are you two not much of a believer in him? Rich reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 2 at 22:04 Reply +/- A little bit pudgy, not a very good athlete. Not like you can really judge any of these kids yet, but those are some of the knocks. I think that if he and Andrew Harrison are projected fifth and sixth overall right now, that's shaping up to be a very strong top of the draft. eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 22:21 Reply +/- If he comes out, someone not many people are talking about at the moment who I believe will be a top 5 pick, is Rodney Hood. He's that good, to me. He may well be the reason that Parker doesn't 'show out' as much as he probably could next year. Unless Coach K trots out a small lineup (which he has been known to do according to his current personnel) of Quinn Cook, Rasheed Sulaimon, Parker, with Hood at the 4, Jabari may not see that much time on the wing as good as Hood is. He'll shape up in a college strength and conditioning program to rid the weight concerns and I'm leery of any report that labels him not a good athlete. Need to analyze further but I've seen nothing of the sort to raise a red flag with what little observation I've had. GoSixers on Jul 2 at 9:56 Reply +/- Many teams interested in Bynum reportedly, and his agent is saying he won't work out for any team before signing Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 10:01 Reply +/- He'll probably end up making 8 figures annually without proving he can play. Amazing. Dollar Bill reply to Charlie H on Jul 2 at 10:22 Reply +/- "Keep him in our prayers." ~ a defrocked coach Charlie H reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 2 at 10:55 Reply +/- I for one am praying for the poor unfortunate soul who "made" 18 mil last year. My guess is he gets 3 - 4 years at 10-12 mil per year. And that he misses most of the upcoming season after injuring himself while flamenco dancing. Dollar Bill reply to Charlie H on Jul 2 at 11:23 Reply +/- Franchise that signs him should sew 'Harlequins' on jersey fronts. Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:23 Reply +/- Since I'm a huge conspiracy theorist I'm very nervous. Since Wiggins is the next big thing that they are going to have him get drafted by his home town Toronto Raptors who are expected to suck this year. Just like they did with Lebron going to Cleveland. Toronto is a huge dma with tons of money.... Hoping not but will be pissed if it happens. GoSixers reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:28 Reply +/- Do you believe the moon landing was faked too? sixerfan1220 reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:33 Reply +/- huh the raptors have a decent shot at the 8 seed which isnt anything special but they arent as bad as you think Xsago reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 2 at 11:47 Reply +/- Yeah, i don't think the Raptors are tanking. Court_visioN reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 13:22 Reply +/- With Masai in the fold we have no idea what direction that franchise is going now. They could be tanking. das411 reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:55 Reply +/- DMA? GoSixers reply to das411 on Jul 2 at 12:01 Reply +/- Designated Market Area - when you're determining market size from a RATINGS point of view - it's not just the city but surrounding areas as well And Philadelphia is a rather 'large' DMA too - coming in 4th in the US, which no offense to Canada is what matters to most companies as we spend the most money on stuff we don't need. Of course, if the NBA was fixing the lottery - they'd do it by DMA and a team like Cleveland would never win :) Miami was 16th in 2013/2013 http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_Ranks2.pdf It's one way to argue 'small' versus 'big' market - but of course - ownership commitment matters as well - it's a good vaguely understood term that conspiracy nuts (cause they're all nuts) will use to justify their irrational beliefs that the NBA lottery is fixed (but only in specific years) I mean how else do you explain Tim Duncan in the media mecca that is San Antonio (36th DMA in 2012/13) das411 reply to GoSixers on Jul 2 at 12:24 Reply +/- woah i actually learned something from GoSixers, how about that Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:44 Reply +/- No way..... That's great.... WE LANDED ON THE MOOON. You really think Toronto has a shot at the 8 seed? I hope so as it will get rid of my theory. GoSixers reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:48 Reply +/- It's as rational a belief as believing the NBA lottery is fixed Xsago reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:48 Reply +/- They might change their mind, but as of right now, they are not a danger for Wiggins. Anyway i would have absolutely no problem with Wiggins landing in Toronto if it happened. Tray reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 12:34 Reply +/- Explain having absolutely no problem if Toronto gets Wiggins? Xsago reply to Tray on Jul 2 at 12:52 Reply +/- Just in terms of the conspiracy theory. Toronto deserves a star who would actually like to play there and if they happened to land Wiggins i wouldn't have a problem with it. Of course, ii would prefer the Sixers :) What i would have a problem with is the Lakers or Celtics landing Wiggins... sixerfan1220 reply to Scott from VT on Jul 2 at 11:57 Reply +/- assuming valanciunas plays like he played at the end of last year and also the eastern conference sucks Brian on Jul 2 at 14:17 Reply +/- Knicks apparently going after Brand. The Nets and Knicks are in an arms race for the oldest roster. Battling for the #4/5 seed in the East. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 14:38 Reply +/- The battle of New York. The Knicks appear to be losing it to be honest... GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 2 at 14:43 Reply +/- In the short term - they're battling it out to maybe with a round in the playoffs - in the long term the winners are the celtics, sixers, and raptors cause the knicks and nets have hamstrung themselves long term sander reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 14:44 Reply +/- Why are they trying to trade for Bargnani though? He doesn't seem like a good fit playing next to Melo. GoSixers reply to sander on Jul 2 at 14:48 Reply +/- Cause they think he's a stretch four who fits between Carmelo and Chandler?