DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan All Sixers, all the time DFDepressed Fan Hinkie Takes a Flyer STORYCOMMENTS (584) CM on Jul 6 at 9:12 Reply +/- I'd bet they like the euro they (got) better than White. Aldemir is a rugged rebounding big from Turkey. The downside of this deal is having to read and listen to the local media hacks and sports radio mouth breathers pontificate on mental illness for the next 12 months. sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 10:04 Reply +/- summer league starts tomorrow sixers game is 9:00 AM on NBATV eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 11:18 Reply +/- Any interesting young free agents they're looking at? Never saw the final rosters. sixerfan1220 reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 6 at 11:24 Reply +/- heres the roster http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/130702-summer-league eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 11:44 Reply +/- Thanks. Remember that Cooper kid looking pretty nice down the stretch last year. Liked Wyatt in college, he was just a bucket-getter. Loved Mbakwe, glad they got him if they didn't sign Richard Howell. Liked Southerland at the Cuse too. Stan on Jul 6 at 11:02 Reply +/- Dallas gave Calderon a 4 year deal worth $29 million. I guess they won't be tanking. Maybe they might be open to a sign and trade for Bynum. Stan on Jul 6 at 11:05 Reply +/- I don't like to think of this trade as a guy helping his former boss. I like to think of this trade as a deal done out of spite toward LA to get Howard to sign with Houston. eddies' heady's on Jul 6 at 11:17 Reply +/- Even though this amounts to not much, it just solidifies further that DiLeo and his brethren are all finally gone. Kudos for that. Los5782 on Jul 6 at 11:24 Reply +/- Don't know if it's been stated already here, but seems like Mavs have interest in Bynum. Marc Stein: Mavs' post-Dwight interest in Bynum is legit. They ARE pursuing him. Yet it's been made clear they'll make detailed/careful evaluation first Twitter @ESPNSteinLine Jack Straw on Jul 6 at 11:53 Reply +/- I have my doubts that Bynum will be able to play in more than 30 games next season, but it'd almost be poetic justice if he goes to Dallas and helps them win. The way I see it today, Memphis, OKC, SA, LAC, Denver, Houston, and GS will all finish ahead of New Orleans, which should leave the Pelicans to battle with the Mavs and Lakers for the final playoff seed. If Bynum were to help Dallas get into the postseason it'd be his one and only contribution to the 6ers. Better late than never. Xsago on Jul 6 at 12:40 Reply +/- I don't get the problem with the deal. Aldemir is the equivalent of a second round pick. He's a decent stash prospect. And even White might be able to play a little for 50 games a year and turn himself into an asset by the trade deadline. It's a no risk move. All they spent was 1.7 million in cap space, which is not significant at all. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 6 at 13:40 Reply +/- What they got (while you overrate it) isn't really the issue, it's what they didn't get. Houston was the team motivated to make the move, and they had to make it quickly. Look at the trade the Sixers made to clear cap space for Brand. They had to give up a pick to get Minny to absorb the contracts. Hinkie should've gotten a pick in this deal, IMO. das411 reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 13:42 Reply +/- isn't the Turkish guy essentially "getting a pick" though? Brian reply to das411 on Jul 6 at 13:46 Reply +/- No. He's a guy who's already been picked. Picks have value most stashed guys don't. A stashed rebounder doesn't have a ton of value. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 13:45 Reply +/- Or maybe Hinkie believes in White more than you do and thinks he got a good player out of it for nothing Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:49 Reply +/- We'll see. If that's the case, he'll have to pick up the 3rd year option before the season even starts. I find it hard to believe anyone in that organization (or elsewhere) could believe in him after the spectacle he made of himself last year followed by the horrible performance in the d-league. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 13:51 Reply +/- I find it hard to believe a team is going into summer league without a head coach - but there you have it...most likely this is an insignificant move for an insignificant player...I'm not worried about whether or not he got a second round pick...I'm focused on who goes next, what they get for them (I predict Thad next after Josh Smith signs somewhere) and who they hire as a shooting coach :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 13:54 Reply +/- I'd assume opening an interview with a head coach candidate by saying, "we don't want to win," narrows the list of candidates greatly. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 14:05 Reply +/- And I don't think that's how you couch it unless you're kind of an idiot, any potential NBA coach worth his salt knows how you go about winning...you tell them you have a plan and that you want them to be part of the plan and that you know you won't win the first couple years and that is not how success at the job will be determined by the front office (no matter what loud mouth uninformed media and fans say). You talk about coaching the #1 talent in the 2013 draft when he's healthy, the potential of coaching a potential superstar from the 2014 draft and building something from the ground up... Just like people keep taking the Raiders jobs - there are only 30 NBA jobs - you can't really afford to turn any of them down if you're offered them. George Vogel, Erik Spolestra, Greg Poppovich - all first time head coaches Oscar reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 1:33 Reply +/- Horrible performance in D-league? You did not watch a single game. You could tell right away he is a game changer. Even out of shape he is not a D-league player. Derek Bodner reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 23:49 Reply +/- From what I understand, Hinkie views Aldemir as the centerpiece of the trade. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 18:07 Reply +/- There is a huge, huge difference. White only has a 1.7 million contract. You don't give up a pick usually for that little. And he and Aldemir are probably worth 2 second rounders anyway. In fact, this may have been Morey helping out Hinkie instead of the other way round. Utah just spent their entire cap space AND gave up on the remote chance they could gain something by sign and trading their players for 2 first round picks. 24 million for 2 late first rounders and 2 second rounders. And GSW was even more motivated than the Rockets. The Rockets could easily find a taker for White while giving out cash and the rights to Aldemir. The sixers got the second rounders for only a 15th of the price. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 6 at 19:18 Reply +/- By your flawed logic, Utah got first and second round picks in the players they received as well. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 4:05 Reply +/- Look at it any way you like it. 1.7 million in cap space is not going to get you a first round pick... sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 13:57 Reply +/- Dorell Wright 2 years 6 million to Portland he couldnt get more? Brian reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 13:58 Reply +/- What's Portland doing? sixerfan1220 reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 14:01 Reply +/- i guess they think they are playoff team with a good bench GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 14:06 Reply +/- More importantly - with all the supposed 'demand' for Wright out there he couldn't finagle a bigger deal that required a sign and trade to work?:) Xsago reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 18:08 Reply +/- Damn, i'd gladly resign him for that price... MCT on Jul 6 at 14:26 Reply +/- Went to Iguodala's twitter page to see his reaction to his new contract (ESPN had a link to it), he's going to be a good fit next to Curry. He is still buddies with everyone's favorite Sixer Evan Turner it looks like. Has anyone seen or heard anything in the news from Jrue on being traded? I saw that his agent said he was "shocked" but haven't seen anything else. He is still hanging out with his best buddy as well but no comments on the trade or anything. Do we think Turner gets traded next? Who would take him and for how much (little)? evan turner @thekidet 11h Forever my bro! http://instagram.com/p/bamZvqTSLX/ Andre Iguodala @andre 4 Jul #Repost Burner on that boy turner! http://instagram.com/p/bXxVi9lQIh/ Andre Iguodala @andre 3 Jul Early am workout with my man @thekidet got a surprise for him!!! GoSixers reply to MCT on Jul 6 at 14:34 Reply +/- I think Thaddeus Young gets traded shortly after Josh Smith lands somewhere - as he probably has the most value Then I think Hawes will move next as teams who think they have a 'chance' will be looking for a back up big man Tuner - if he goes - would probably be last of the three Hell, MAYBE some team looking for a shooter will be deluded by Jason Richardsons past and have some interest in him... Turner should only be traded if it's a nice haul as keeping him would make Wigging (that's what we should call losing next season I think) easier purely based on Turners deluded belief in his own non-existent 'talent' Tuck reply to MCT on Jul 8 at 10:36 Reply +/- The must shocking thing I got from this is that Turner actually works out in the offseason. Who would have thunk it? The Six on Jul 6 at 14:33 Reply +/- Does anyone who has followed the Royce White situation closely feel that he has any desire to play at this point? GoSixers reply to The Six on Jul 6 at 14:38 Reply +/- Yes - he has a desire to play - but I think he stubbornly wants to control it on his terms in regards to how his special circumstances are handle - he didn't seem to be willing to work with the Rockets on the situation and then he took the darn thing public. Maybe he learned from the disastrous year in Houston, maybe not. I'm not sure it'll matter to the sixers one way or another. Wouldn't be surprised to see him spend the season in Delaware - or 'dnp-gmd' showing up constantly GoSixers on Jul 6 at 15:02 Reply +/- Josh Smith to the pistons (who have no point guard at the moment) - 4 years 56 million - not a max deal - hell - supposedly Iguodala turned down 4 52 from Denver...but another team that's trying to be mediocre next year sixerfan1220 reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 15:06 Reply +/- they wont have any spacing on offense but their defense should be fun unless they move drummond to the bench sixerfan1220 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 15:07 Reply +/- or trade Monroe stan reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 15:24 Reply +/- Which brings up the obvious question- Should/can the sixers trade for him? sixerfan1220 reply to stan on Jul 6 at 15:35 Reply +/- no sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 16:58 Reply +/- Carl Landry 4 years 26 million to the kings Jarrett Jack 4 years 25 million to the cavs Brian reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 17:57 Reply +/- Good news. 2 teams in the race to the bottom making meaningless moves to get to 30 wins. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 18:06 Reply +/- Wsan't sure how much Landry affected the kings, cause they still have your favorite player helping them lose but the cavs make an incremental move to get slightly better - remember - they wanna make the playoffs and what playoff team doesn't need a doughy white back up center who can hit 15 footers HUH? If they're so sure they ain't getting in the lottery let's get their 2014 pick :) Tray reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 19:35 Reply +/- On the other hand, Utah may have entered the tanking conversation, though they're better in some ways with a Kanter/Favors frontcourt than a a Jefferson/Millsap frontcourt. I just don't see where the scoring will come from. Xsago reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 6 at 18:12 Reply +/- Jesus, Landry got more than Jack? Jack at 6.5 per year is fine i guess, but almost 6.76 per year for Landry? That seems like a massive overpay to me... Rodney reply to Xsago on Jul 6 at 18:59 Reply +/- Any reason why GSW didn't try to keep him? He was integral to their success last year. Why would they let him walk like that? GoSixers reply to Rodney on Jul 6 at 19:12 Reply +/- They had to renounce his rights to try and make room for Iguodala and Howard I think? GoSixers reply to GoSixers on Jul 6 at 19:28 Reply +/- Yeah that's it Trading away those 3 pieces of dead weight did not put them under the cap enough to sign Iguodala Brian on Jul 6 at 20:16 Reply +/- btw, after handling nearly every step of this two-year drama very poorly, I thought Howard deserves some credit for handling this week well. Also deserves some credit for turning down the most money/LAL. As far as I know, no one has ever turned them down before. I'd love to trade Thad to the Lakers for an unprotected 1st rounder in next year's draft (if they still own it). Stan reply to Brian on Jul 6 at 21:09 Reply +/- Nah. They traded away their 2013 and 2015 1st round picks for Steve Nash. I think those picks are unprotected. lol. Xsago reply to Stan on Jul 7 at 3:55 Reply +/- Which means they still have the 2014 pick. You just need to find a way go give them a pick back. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 3:58 Reply +/- I think Lebron and Bosh took less than the max to be able to play with Wade. They were still sign and traded though to get the max percentages. Tray on Jul 6 at 23:48 Reply +/- Pachulia to Bucks for 3 years, 15.6 million. Udoh tweets "Sheesh." http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/7/6/4499954/nba-free-agency-zaza-pachulia-bucks Xsago reply to Tray on Jul 7 at 3:57 Reply +/- So the Bucks now have 8 big men and 2 guards under contract. That makes sense. And they are paying a combined 16.5 million to Pachulia, Gooden and Udoh... spencer is hired reply to Xsago on Jul 7 at 8:58 Reply +/- And Dallas has 4 p.g.'s and hardly any wings. Odd signings to say the least. Is this Houston team much better than Dwight's Orlando squad? R.Anderson-T.Jones H.Turkaglu-C.Parsons J.Richardson-J.Harden J.Nelson-J.Lin J.J.Redick-???? Tray reply to spencer is hired on Jul 7 at 10:11 Reply +/- No, it's worse. Brian reply to Tray on Jul 8 at 1:27 Reply +/- Oh come on, Harden trumps that entire Orlando roster and you know it. eddies' heady's reply to spencer is hired on Jul 7 at 10:38 Reply +/- I hope Dallas does a sign and trade for Bynum and ships us Larkin somehow. And I don't know if this Houston team is much worse that that Orlando one, but Dwight is. AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 9:27 Reply +/- MCW is a turnover machine. i hope we dont think this guy is the answer - a few nice passes but overshadowed by a few terrible TOs. and he is getting eaten alive by patrick beverly YoungGun13 reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 9:50 Reply +/- How so? He has 6 tos which is way too much. But also has 11 points on efficient shooting and he's getting to the line. And I'm not watching it but how is he getting eaten alive? AaronMckie4MVP reply to YoungGun13 on Jul 7 at 10:42 Reply +/- i only watched the 15 mins so maybe he improved after- just looked overmatched by beverly, had a tough time geting up the court - saw some terrible turnovers. its his first game, so id cut him some slack - but didnt realize he lead the nation in TOs last year- so its part of his game. that doesnt work for me YoungGun13 reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 10:52 Reply +/- Ok I'm watching the second half now and the announcers were talking about how bad mcw played in the first then he made adjustment in the second half. Beverely has 6 fouls and should be fouled out already and has been hounding mcw the whole game sixerfan1220 reply to YoungGun13 on Jul 7 at 11:04 Reply +/- cant foul out in the summer league AaronMckie4MVP reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 7 at 11:37 Reply +/- yeah, i watched the rest- showed flashes of dominance int the second half over a 5 minute stretch- some pretty strong drives/finishes----, ended with a full boxscore, but terrible shooting (8/23) and TOs. a LOT of really bad shots in the second, both judgement-wise and also missing badly. but keep in mind, the team around him is particularly awful so maybe he felt like trying to carry the team--- gets to the line, hits his FTs, can get to the basket . i would say there is something to work with here - Brian reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 12:04 Reply +/- The team around him this season is going to be very bad as well. I hope he starts all year and plays like this. AaronMckie4MVP reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 12:24 Reply +/- i think the sixers will win 18 games. Brian reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 13:38 Reply +/- I'll sign up for that. YoungGun13 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 7 at 12:51 Reply +/- I'm aware of that but i'm saying the reason he was playing defense so aggressively is because he can't foul out in the summer league eddies' heady's on Jul 7 at 10:42 Reply +/- One thing that concerns me with MCW is he has such a high dribble because of his height, yet he seems to have really long arms. He looks to turn it over about the same amount as Jrue though. :) spencer is hired reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 7 at 11:48 Reply +/- If I remember correctly Beverly held his own in a playoff atmosphere last year and may start for Houston this year. I will cut our rook some slack but wouldn't mind either a vet p.g. as a backup or possibly as an assistant coach. Charlie H reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 8 at 11:08 Reply +/- Don't laugh at the comparison, but Magic Johnson was a skinny, high-dribbling turnover machine in his rookie year. Not as skinny as MCW, though - Magic was pretty strong, which helped him keep his high dribble. Charlie H reply to Charlie H on Jul 8 at 11:13 Reply +/- Assist/TO ratio was less than 2:1 in 79-80. After '84, it was consistently around 3:1, with 3 - 4 turnovers per game. The Six on Jul 7 at 13:36 Reply +/- I was real happy with MCW today. Yes his TOs were high but some of those are a product of never playing 1)in an NBA-type game before, and 2) never playing with those guys before. I was a little concerned about his ability to handle pressure, and he struggled in the first half. But he came back nice in the second. And the fact that guys can't foul out in summer league means the pressure/contact is hyper-aggressive. I thought he adjusted well. He better get used to that pressure as its all he gonna see next season. He finished well at the basket too. Maybe Moultre is just going to be "that guy". Passive, soft, and just not very engaged. Really disappointed to seem him happily blend into the background. GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:51 Reply +/- Watching the 'new look' Sixers first summer league game with my Sunday breakfast was more enjoyable than watching the UK finally close out their Wimbledon drought I guess and there were some nice things to watch, but this is Summer League of course. Remember when John Salmons wowed everyone at Summer league and got a lot of people 'excited' including even Larry Bird (yes it was long ago but it's still a good object lesson of how summer league doesn't always translate)? I don't think summer league is going to tell you who is going to be 'good' in the NBA but it can tell you who might not belong in the NBA. That being said, I enjoyed watching Michael Carter-Williams play. He's a raw rookie playing his first 'professional' game, but he still showed the things that made him the 11th pick in the draft (good and bad). I haven't watched a lot of his college games yet (if you want to and have access, ESPN 3 has 27 Syracuse games from last season available on line) but I was impressed with his court vision much, his ability to get to the basket and get to the line. I wish the sixers had gone to him more in the post because he had an advantage there, not sure if his skinniness will be a problem there but maybe later in Summer League the sixers will try that a bit more. Carter-Williams was rough in the first half, lots of bad turn overs, but he was still making good passes and got to the line, in the second half he did settle down on the turn overs, but his shot selection to me needed some work, but he had a nice run in the middle of the third where the sixers cut the deficit to like 4 or 6 where you could see what his 'upside' could be if he works at things. If the mechanics are good but the shot is constantly off, would that indicate that somehow the 'target selection' needs some work? Is that easier to work on than mechanics? I mean it's not like he isn't hitting his free throws, I think he missed one, so what's the issue and how do you fix it I have to wonder? As for other roster players, Kazemi and Moultrie, they were there, but not very impressive to me. In fact Kazemi is purported to be a ball hawking kind of rebounder but the guy who impressed me in that regard was Rockets undrafted invitee Jack Cooley out of Notre Dame. He showed the energy and motor and nose for the ball that Kazemi is said to have. In terms of 'the other guys' who you bring to audition for camp invites, Khalif Wyatt is the guy who has gotten the most 'pub' on this and other sixer outlets but I wasn't so impressed with him over all, though in the last couple minutes he did have some flashes and a great 3/4 court alley-oop dunk to the 'other' Williams (Rodney) filling out the sixers roster this week. Two of the 'other guys' did show me something that I liked. One was Michael Eric, a 25 year old 'rookie' out of Temple via Canton in the NBDL. I think I saw him box out more in one summer league game than I've seen Spencer Hawes do it in 2 years. Could see him being a back up defensive big man on the team next year since winning probably won't be a priority. The other guy who showed something was DJ Cooper an undersized point guard out of Ohio. He showed some of that 'mighty mouse' energy you like to get from your back up point guard. The sixers ran him and Carter-Williams on the floor a bit with Carter-Williams more off the ball. Another potential back up for the 2013/14 sixers, but at only 6' he could be a bit limited. I gotta admit, I didn't hate watching this game, it was nice to watch (and head tip to Michael Carter-Williams for his shoes which made it super easy to find him on the court) The Six reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:57 Reply +/- I enjoyed it too, and I dare say looked forward to it. The season will be rough but better than last year. AaronMckie4MVP reply to The Six on Jul 7 at 14:44 Reply +/- if rodney williams makes the team and starts at SF (dont laugh, its possible), the sixers will win 16 games The Six reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 14:56 Reply +/- That would be perfect. I could care less if they win 3 games. buke reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 7 at 15:52 Reply +/- As a Gopher fan, I wouldn't mind that too much, but the team does have a minimum salary requirement so sooner or later they are going to have to add a player or two who cost something beyond minimum salaries. Rodney can jump out of the gym so he can get some blocks against other small forwards and he'll make a few highlight dunks but he never developed as hoped during his four years at Minnesota so his talents don't extend much beyond those. His fellow Gopher summer league teammate Mbakwe also stalled in development. The stagnant offense and lack of player development were significant factors leading to Tubby Smith's dismissal and Rick Pitino Jr's hire. The state of Minnesota has three highly rated HS seniors and it was believed that Smith would have no chance of getting any of them. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 7 at 16:03 Reply +/- The minimum salary requirement does not have to be met by adding players - if you're below it you can just distribute the balance to the players on the roster. I don't think that it should be a concern when considering who to sign or not to sign. It only affects where the money goes - either way the sixers have to shell out the minimum salary amount but they don't have to sign players just to get there. The only requirement is the minimum roster amount... The University of Minneosta program also suffers from being in the big 10 with so many schools with a better pedigree (including my alma mater Wisconsin which didn't have much of a pedigree beyond hockey when I started there in 1990) buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 16:26 Reply +/- I know about the roster distribution if a team is under the minimum league salary but I still think that is something that management would prefer to avoid. As far as Big Ten pedigrees, we'll see if Wisconsin's outlasts Bo Ryan. My alma mater, Iowa, was one of the most consistently successful Big Ten programs during the eighties and part of the nineties, but they went into a decade + stretch of mostly mediocrity from which they are now emerging (thanks to Philadelphia's own Fran McCaffrey). Some college basketball programs have a pedigree that transcends coaching regimes, but the majority are coach dependent. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 7 at 16:38 Reply +/- I don't see management would care how money is distributed - you gotta pay out x - I don't think they should really care how it gets distributed, it's a sunk cost - you gotta pay it out somehow - signing a player just so you don't have to distribute it out seems foolish to me - not sound strategy and I'm hoping that with the new regime in place, the Hinkie strategy will be sound As for big 10 pedigree - well, my first year at Wisconsin, the football team had one win (against Temple, which I got to rub into my sisters face) and by my senior year they won the rose bowl - and they were able to maintain a high level of play post Alvarez (who we called Robo Coach his first year - not sure why) with a smart hire (though he bolted for Arkansas so we'll see going forward) after Alvarez was elevated to the Athletic Director- I believe that model will be followed when Bo Ryan leaves. And no offense to minnesota, but I'd rather spend winter in madison than minnesota Eric reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 16:48 Reply +/- Here is some additional info on the salary floor situation: http://hoop76.com/sixers-cap-floor/ You guys seem to have it down. buke reply to Eric on Jul 7 at 17:29 Reply +/- Thanks for the link. That was a pretty thorough rundown. I do hope they manage to get one or two contributing vets at modest prices (either by free agency or trade) once the flurry of activity dies down. Otherwise they may end up with lots of cap space but not enough willing signees of quality next summer. They can find ways to clear cap space if they have to. das411 reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 17:40 Reply +/- because why run a roster with, say, 10 players and give them that bonus $$ when you can go with a full 14 (plus Kwame), even if they are mostly nobodies, just to see what you have? Court_visioN reply to das411 on Jul 7 at 20:11 Reply +/- I think what GoSixers was saying is you don't have to sign someone to big money to meet the salary floor. You can sign a bunch of nobodies and then distribute the $ to the players on the roster. Correct me if I'm wrong. buke reply to Court_visioN on Jul 8 at 0:13 Reply +/- Yes, that's what he was saying, but some of us don't see much worthwhile in that strategy and hope management doesn't embrace it. Brian reply to buke on Jul 8 at 0:15 Reply +/- What strategy are you hoping for? buke reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 12:49 Reply +/- Getting one or two pieces now (even if they are just role players) instead of waiting to get everyone next year. Too much demand in a given market often leads to overvaluation and suboptimal purchases. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 8 at 12:52 Reply +/- And what pieces do you see out there that are worth tying up long term cap room that would not interfere with the hope of being the team with the best chance at the #1 pick in the 2014 lottery GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 8 at 9:30 Reply +/- This all started in regards to signing a guy from Minnesota whose career is in Europe...the point was not to pay guys 'just to pay them' because there is no real penalty for not meeting the salary floor - you're paying what the floor is - it doesn't matter who you pay it to in my opinion - it's a fixed/sunk cost - you gotta pay it - so don't waste money on a guy who isn't going to be ever an NBA contributor just to 'not' do the distribution - buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 8 at 12:43 Reply +/- I don't think you quite understand the definition of a sunk cost, so, as someone very well trained in accounting and business let me explain it. A sunk cost is a past cost that cannot be changed by future actions and has no impact on future decisions because the cost has been incurred regardless of future options. Please don't try to argue this definition with me (after all, you will argue about anything regardless of the level of your foundation). I doubt you have anything close to my credentials (which involves advanced and terminal degrees, authorship of peer reviewed articles, and about 20 years of experience). This situation doesn't fit that definition. The Sixers have options. The Sixers can pay the minimum team salary, or somewhat more, for an assortment of 13 players who have that market value or they can pay that same amount for an assortment of 13 players who have less than the market value of what they are paying. Why would someone want to pay roughly 50 million dollars for a package that is worth 44 million? That would make you a sucker and doesn't make sense for someone who supposedly tries to "acquire assets." One can always try to trade one or more of the costlier players later. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 8 at 12:50 Reply +/- A sunk cost is a past cost that cannot be changed by future actions and has no impact on future decisions because the cost has been incurred regardless of future options You mean like a previously negotiated CBA that fixes the amount of payroll you have to pay to the players on your roster regradless of whether or not you sign enough player to meet that payroll amount? This is not an argument, you will see it as such because you've made a pronouncement and as such will brook no argument, but the minimum salary the sixers must pay out in the 2013/14 season is defined by the CBA (an agreed upon past action) and can not be lowered by any action the sixers take. I'm terribly sorry it makes you up tight if it doesn't fit your stringent definition, but then again, you make terrible arguments all the time using the incorrect definitions of things to try and defend bad basketball players buke reply to GoSixers on Jul 8 at 22:19 Reply +/- My definition IS THE DEFINITION that is generally accepted by trained people in the field. If you want to use terms, then use them correctly. I am trained for and work in a technical field where definitions must have precision. This isn't a field with a bunch of uncertified amateurs with attitude who browse web pages. This is a field with an established lexicon, an extensive academic literature, and one for which masters and doctoral degrees are conferred. What you are referring to is an unavoidable cost or a minimum fixed cost. There may be a minimum fixed cost but what you choose to purchase with it is not fixed. A sunk cost represents something that has already been purchased. AaronMckie4MVP reply to buke on Jul 9 at 6:34 Reply +/- instead of arguing about the definition of sunk costs, please suggest some of the players you think it makes sense to stash. if there was someone worth adding as a cornerstone piece, you might be on to something, but based on availability, id rather just overpay rodney williams for the time being to meet the minimum salary and lock in 14 wins. also, i dont think we know what pieces we need, because we dont know what we have or will have. Why try to sign a PG or center when we have no idea if MCW or Noel pans out . we do not yet know the cornerstones of our 2017 championship roster , so no sense trying to build around it buke reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 9 at 12:11 Reply +/- We do need another point guard and another center (unless Kwame somehow has a complete turnaround). Need some other things, too. Somewhere between a team with a 48 win ceiling and an excruciatingly awful and unwatchable collection like this year's summer entry, there must be a happy medium. This season's team will be bad, but, as Dollar Bill notes, putting a D League caliber team on the floor is risky. You can talk about fielding a team full of promising young players but right now the Sixers don't seem to have so many of those either. Waiting until 2014 to fill all of the needs is also risky. Even if the Sixers get one of the highest picks, there is no guarantee that person will be an instant impact player. They may also end up in the situation of having lots of cap space but not enough willing and worthwhile bodies to acquire. Strategies are fine but hedging one's bets is also prudent. There is no reason that they can't pick up one or two worthwhile additions now on modest contracts. They can always attempt to trade them later if they need to. In the end I suspect they will acquire some players through free agency or trade anyway. As far as the players they get, I'm not so choosy. Reports are that Will Bynum just signed a two year contract for less than 3 million per year so that should give some indication of where the market stands. There are still some point guards out there who can be had for modest amounts. And someone like Dalembert or Jermaine O'Neal might be acquirable for a modest two year deal. They can still play. As far as arguing with GoSixers, I try to respond to him in a way that would discourage a normal person from responding to my posts. So far that hasn't worked but I keep hoping. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 9 at 12:19 Reply +/- Hmm...the premise would indicate you think of yourself as a normal people. Normal people don't post on sports blogs (for one) and in my life I've never met a normal person, normal is boring. As for your arguments for roster building, taking the side of someone stuck in 1950 doesn't exactly bolster your argument. The plan seems rather obvious to be the worst team in the NBA next year. The only players on the roster who are going to really POSSIBLY matter going forward are the two picked in the draft this year, the rest are irrelevant. Whether or not you or anyone else can stomach watching the worst team in the NBA in 2013/14 really isn't relevant - because of the potential upside. If you truly do what you claim to do for a living taking the long view shouldn't be that difficult to do (unless of course you're more of a day trader which, well, that's insanity by definition). The sixers are taking the long view - wins next season do not help the long view - you either have faith in Hinkie or you don't - it's kind of that simple. If you don't have faith in Hinkie - that's fine - but he's going to do what he's going to do and he's not going to placate those who are satisfied with mediocrity when taking a chance might lead to greater success. There is no guarantee his plan will succeed - but it's more likely to move towards championship contention then continuing to be a 7/8 seed with a minor free agent signing and mid to low teens draft pick every year. It's weird though - the lakers have ONE player signed for 2014/2015, they probably will have more cap room than the sixers next off season and no one seems to be saying what a bad idea it is for them to be targeting past next season Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 16:46 Reply +/- As long as MCW didn't look like a boy among men in summer league, he's leaps and bounds ahead of where Turner was. Still don't think he's a starter on an eventual contender, but maybe he'll surprise me. Wouldn't be the first time. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 16:51 Reply +/- I believe his flaws are fixable, if he works at it, I believe his court vision is superior to Jrue's ever was (and I'm not sure you can 'improve' that), he can draw fouls when he drives and he had some pretty athletic looking finishes. He's flawed - but everyone in the 2013 draft was flawed and it depends on them to improve their flaws - he has 3 major ones I believe can be fixed. Pass selection (make smarter passes Weight (he should probably weigh at least 210 at his height) Shot (mechanics seem ok so maybe there's something in the 'spotting' of his shots - his aiming mechanism should be corrected?) Evan Turner has shown us that even if you do work at it (supposedly) your shot MIGHT not improve but Turner's shot mechanics were broken - I think Williams problems are different - but I also think the shot is the hardest thing to correct (and most vital - though if he's a good defensive point guard who can get to the foul line and find open shooters, I like him a lot anyway) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 16:55 Reply +/- My take from watching tape was he won't have the burst to get by guys off the dribble in the pros. Add the terrible jumper and worse shot selection and court vision doesn't mean much. Rich reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 22:48 Reply +/- He got by Beverley a couple of times with ease today. Considering how physical the officials were allowing Beverley to play him, he definitely showed some ability in that regard. tk76 reply to Brian on Jul 7 at 16:56 Reply +/- Yep. Not being physically overmatched like Turner was by the likes of Lance Stephenson is an improvement. Steve reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 13:08 Reply +/- After 1 Summer League game, what makes you think MCW can't be a starter on a contending team? I know there are some stud PG's out there in the league but isn't it a bit early to be making statements like that? Mario Chalmers, George Hill, and Mike Conley all started for contenders. You can't see MCW getting to that level??? I know he's a one-and-done college kid without a huge body of work to look at but I'd like to think he could be at the very least a starter on a contending team. GoSixers reply to Steve on Jul 8 at 13:17 Reply +/- Unless one felt he wasn't going to be a starter on a championship contending team based on his entire college career. It's summer league. 50% (at least) of the league probably won't see an NBA game on more than a 10 day contract any time soon. Any one whose opinion of him is swayed by one performance in one summer league is making bad decisions. There were point guards on the teams that won championships with Michael Jordan too - most people don't remember their names - they weren't that important - that's the category of starting point guard Mario Chalmers is in my opinion, he's inisgnificant The Greek on Jul 7 at 17:15 Reply +/- The sixers gave 8 pf/c's on the roster. They don't have a single s f, and a backcourt of MCW and Turner with only Justin Holloday as a backup. That is crazy! This team will break the record for the least amount of Three pt fg's in a season. The bobcats finished with 20 loses last season so I like the number that was posted before, 18 wins being something to shoot for. The Greek reply to The Greek on Jul 7 at 17:17 Reply +/- Mispelled Justin's last name buke reply to The Greek on Jul 7 at 17:46 Reply +/- "They don't have a single s f, and a backcourt of MCW and Turner with only Justin Holloday as a backup. That is crazy! " Indeed it is. I don't have much problem with them losing 60 or more games with a young team but there is losing and then there is losing very badly game after game. I'm not convinced that having twenty or more 20 + point losses is good for building character. Not sure Justin Holliday will be on the roster next year. I don't believe he has a guaranteed contract. We've heard some buzz about getting Will Bynum as an additional PG. That would be OK. Tray reply to buke on Jul 7 at 21:24 Reply +/- Yeah but whose character are we trying to build here? I really only care about Noel. Brian reply to Tray on Jul 8 at 0:11 Reply +/- Noel is the only one that matters, and even he doesn't really matter. It's not like he projects to be a centerpiece. The character of the guys wearing the jersey this year is worthless if they don't get a star in the draft next year...or the year after. They aren't building something, they've torn it down and they're hoping to start from scratch when they get lucky. These guys are temps. Tray reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 9:17 Reply +/- I mean, if Noel could potentially have a Ben Wallace-like impact on defense, or something close, I guess I'd like to avoid situations that would totally wreck his psyche, but I don't know that there's much evidence playing on a really bad team your rookie year has that effect. Xsago on Jul 7 at 18:18 Reply +/- I had serious reservations with MCW (mostly related to production/age), but i have to admit i was encouraged by what i saw in the first summer league game. Maybe i was wrong. He had some terrible turnovers, but that is definitely fixable. His ability to get to the rim and draw fouls was on display in a major way. It's a good sign that his supposed strengths appear to be translating vs NBA level of athletes. And yeah, his weaknesses were on display as well. Of course, one should NEVER put too much into summer league games. But i cannot forget how much Turner struggled in summer league... Mike on Jul 7 at 19:31 Reply +/- i was impressed by Beverly. dude was locking MCW down. Houston needs a good defensive PG to pair with Harden. Beverly should get more of Lin's minutes. some of MCW's turnovers were really horrible. like high school basketball horrible. Rich reply to Mike on Jul 7 at 22:56 Reply +/- I agree with you that Beverly is a good defender and good player, but it needs to be mentioned that he ended up with seven fouls, many of which were drawn by Carter-Williams. Honestly, the final number could and should have been more, too. I know that line sounds homerish, but I wasn't "that" impressed by Beverly's defense in this game. He wouldn't have lasted very long in a regular season game playing that way. Hell, he would have been in trouble in this game if there was a foul limit in Summer League. Good for him, he helped swing the game in his team's favor, but by doing a lot of things that would hurt his team during the season. Scott from VT on Jul 7 at 20:42 Reply +/- Beverly was grabbing and holding MCW the whole game, even got him with a cheap elbow. Beverly would have been on bench in real game in foul trouble... I thought MCW showed some great flashes, definitely needs to work on jumper and handle but impressed none the less.. They need to get rid of no foul out rule as it is just bad basketball with everyone hacking. Moultrie looked terrible and lazy Da Jruth reply to Scott from VT on Jul 8 at 0:42 Reply +/- Moultrie "is" terrible and lazy. It's questionable whether Lavoy Allen is or isn't a fair comparison for him, both in a negative way. Los5782 on Jul 7 at 22:46 Reply +/- Marc Stein: Cavs likely won't be factor if Bynum proves healthy enough to command multi-year deal. But hard to beat if Bynum settles for one-year pact Twitter @ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein: Cavs likely won't be factor if Bynum proves healthy enough to command multi-year deal. But hard to beat if Bynum settles for one-year pact Twitter @ESPNSteinLine The Six on Jul 8 at 1:16 Reply +/- So reports are now that both Dallas and Cleveland are interested in signing Bynum. Cleveland for one year only, and Dallas for one or more. I assume we still have our "Bird rights" to match any deal. What is realistic in a sign-and-trade? 2nd rd pick? Brian reply to The Six on Jul 8 at 1:24 Reply +/- That's not how bird rights work. We can offer him more money, and go over the cap to re-sign him, but we don't have the right to match. A sign-and-trade would be used if a team without cap space wanted to sign him, then we could get something in return to facilitate the deal. The Six reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 1:37 Reply +/- Thanks for the correction. So based on that, I guess Dallas would be our shot for a sign-and-trade, and Cleveland could fuck that up? The Six reply to The Six on Jul 8 at 1:40 Reply +/- Actually I guess that would only matter if there were indeed those two options and Bynum wanted Cleveland over Dallas. Stan reply to The Six on Jul 8 at 18:21 Reply +/- Not having a workout for other teams is a major red flag. I don't think his contract will be insured and I can't see him getting more than a 2 year deal that based on a lot of incentives. It's hard to get a good center but no one wants the next Amare Stoudemire on their hands. Bynum is going to the team that going to give the most cash. Xsago on Jul 8 at 11:33 Reply +/- http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9458830/scott-oneil-now-philadelphia-76ers-ceo-adam-aron-steps-down O'Neill will replace Aron as the Sixers CEO. YoungGun13 on Jul 8 at 14:03 Reply +/- MCW seems smarter with the ball this game. 5 assists no turnovers GoSixers reply to YoungGun13 on Jul 8 at 14:08 Reply +/- Softer defense? The Rockets played REALLY aggressive defense for summer league yesterday YoungGun13 reply to GoSixers on Jul 8 at 14:34 Reply +/- But ugh he can't buy a bucket from the outside. GoSixers reply to YoungGun13 on Jul 8 at 14:36 Reply +/- Yeah well, that was the story on him when he was drafted, he's not going to have it fixed just yet. I do hope it's fixable and that he works with the right guy to get it done Jsixer reply to YoungGun13 on Jul 8 at 14:15 Reply +/- Your right, and the refs are call fouls more. Greg on Jul 8 at 14:41 Reply +/- Someone probably said this already but these friendly deals can also help down the road. Some teams in the past have traded away players for nothong (cant remember which sport but a philly team did this a year or 2 ago). Then the next time you negotiate with that team you are on good terms and they remember what you did for them, and they might be easier to deal with down the road when it matters more. Greg on Jul 8 at 14:58 Reply +/- Did khalif wyatt enter the nba draft and how did he end up on our summer league team? Greg reply to Greg on Jul 8 at 15:23 Reply +/- The latest box score has him with 25 points on 18 shots, 3 steals, 5 turnovers. Not bad. Lets sign him Jason reply to Greg on Jul 8 at 16:16 Reply +/- Guy will be eaten alive by NBA D. Greg reply to Jason on Jul 8 at 16:53 Reply +/- At least that fits wth the teams goal this season :) Steve reply to Jason on Jul 8 at 17:53 Reply +/- He plays a LOT like Raymond Felton. Now admittedly I hate Felton's game, but there's certainly a place in the league for that. The Six on Jul 8 at 15:51 Reply +/- Once again....really disappointed in Moultre. I don't care what his numbers were today, he looked soft once again. Shame on me for expecting him to show more at this point, but I really thought coming into the league that he was going to be a guy who could bang inside. He's really just a jump shooter and a big who prefers to stay away from contact. Brian reply to The Six on Jul 8 at 16:01 Reply +/- Does it surprise you they drafted that type of player? The Six reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 16:14 Reply +/- unfortunately No. Da Jruth reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 16:19 Reply +/- Should say - does it surprise you they traded a future 1st round pick for that type of player? And the subsequent comments of him being a top 10 player on their board last year during the draft? Brian reply to Da Jruth on Jul 8 at 16:21 Reply +/- ha! fear not, that's not going to wind up being a first-round pick going to Miami. The Six reply to Brian on Jul 8 at 16:33 Reply +/- Yeah I believe it was a lottery protected first for 2013 and 2014, then it defaults to a second rd pick. I could be wrong. GoSixers reply to The Six on Jul 8 at 16:38 Reply +/- Actually 2 second round picks - 2015, 2016 The Magic one is more likely to be conveyed 2016 - 1-14 2017 - 1-11 2018 - 1-8 If not conveyed by 2018, 2018 and 2019 second round picks If the 'plan' works - that should be conveyed no later than 2017 - maybe 2016 Bryan on Jul 8 at 16:39 Reply +/- What do you guys think about making a run at Omer Asik? Hawes is really more of an offensive center at this point, and Noel may not be ready for quite some time. This article suggests maybe it would cost Thaddeus….I think I'd do it. http://leaguebeats.com/2013/07/08/we-got-dwight-now-what-3-suitors-for-omer-asik/ GoSixers reply to Bryan on Jul 8 at 16:43 Reply +/- Why? Obtaining Asik to 'placehold' while waiting for Noel contradicts the concept of maximizing draft positioning for 2014 AND cap room - as he's signed past next season. The sixers have a valuable asset in Thaddeus Young, they can probably make a better deal than that to fit into the plan. Bryan reply to GoSixers on Jul 8 at 18:15 Reply +/- @GoSixers…I hear you, but I'd question a couple of your premises. First, there's no reason Asik must be a placeholder until Noel gets back. Nerlens has a limited offensive repertoire right now, but I'm not so sure that he won't put together a pretty good game on that end. He certainly has a the tools. If he were to develop like that, sixers would have one of league's most formidable twin tower combos. Second, see what you're saying about maximizing draft position. Sixers definitely don't have entire foundation in place, even if they're off to a good start. But is swapping Asik for Young really going to significantly impact their W/L totals? I'd guess not. In fact, building on your suggestion that they could do better than Asik for Young, wouldn't we expect just the opposite (i.e., if Young is more valuable than Asik, wouldn't they win more with Young than Asik?) Court_visioN reply to Bryan on Jul 8 at 19:50 Reply +/- You can't pair Noel with Asik. You'd have to move Noel to PF, which neutralizes a big part of what makes Noel a great defensive presence. And offensively, neither of them have an outside game. They just don't have compatible games at all. Very redundant. Not to mention by the time the Sixers are ready to contend, Asik's contract expires anyway. Bryan reply to Court_visioN on Jul 8 at 20:11 Reply +/- I'd have to disagree that we can have any confidence at this point that Noel absolutely could not play with Asik. The data points simply are too few. Those that we have show a surprisingly effective mid-range game at Kentucky that was overshadowed by his tremendous shot-blocking. Who's to say that Noel will always be a 6ft. and in guy? Candidly, I'm not so sure that's true right now. Is he Chris Bosh? No. But Bosh didn't have that range when he came in the league. Maybe the larger view is that Noel is not built like an oaf who will be relegated to put-backs and alley-oops. Noel has crazy athleticism, and his frame is actually quite a lot more like most 4s than it is most 5s. Remember, Serge Ibaka plays PF, not C. Ditto a young Garnett, to whom his length weight ratio compares fairly closely. He'll be able to guard the pick and roll, and thrive as a weak side shot-blocker when called upon to do so. Finally, an expiring contract is a good thing: it gives you options. You can trade it, let it run and pocket the cap savings, or resign the player whose Bird rights you'll have. Brian reply to Bryan on Jul 8 at 20:23 Reply +/- I hope they don't try to make Noel into a midrange shooter. Have him work on being awesome inside 6 feet instead. Dollar Bill reply to Bryan on Jul 8 at 22:03 Reply +/- Data point for Asik and Noel: They both suck offensively but one's quicker at it. Bosh, no range coming in?: Could always shoot. Beat Sixers a few times with J accuracy as Raptor. Dollar Bill reply to GoSixers on Jul 8 at 18:48 Reply +/- What "plan"? Powerwash the roster? Make room for another maybe-daddy? The new little dictator traded Jrue Holiday for LaRue Martin (with a surgical knee). And for his next trick, he drafted the D-1 '12-'13 turnover leader to run the show. Next thing you know, he'll hire Adam Sandler to coach 'em up (out of the pizza box thinking). When will managerial soundness, as contrasted to bell jar showy nerd funk, rear its head? A competitive, entertaining, representative product is Hinkie's duty, year in, year out. Pronate dialing for future draft picks is objectionable, inherently bad for the game and its fans. If slop is presented again next season, ownership will be deserving of every empty seat. AaronMckie4MVP reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 9 at 6:39 Reply +/- havent we all suffered enough with the competitive, entertaining, representative, 48 win ceiling product. id much rather be a sixer fan than a net fan, sorry. heinke's duty is to do whatever the business owners want , not what you think is best GoSixers reply to AaronMckie4MVP on Jul 9 at 11:00 Reply +/- As I see it, if you have smart owners, they hire who they think is a smart GM, and tell him the goal and have him come up with a plan. It seems rather obvious (or at least should be obvious to anyone who has paid attention to the NBA over the last decade or so) that the new owners weren't happy with the Snider plan, so they hired Hinkie, said 'tell us your plan' and then they said ok. So he lined up his ducks and now he's knocking them down. There are those who can't see more than 5 minutes in front of them and thus won't be able to grasp the long term plan being put in place. There are also those who feel that if you fail at trying something you shouldn't have tried at all, because being mediocre is a-ok with them, so they'll give up on the sixers (and if the plan works, they'll come back when the sixers are contenders) GoSixers on Jul 9 at 12:25 Reply +/- The cavs reporetedly offered bynum 2 years 24 million (very incentive laden) contract, second year would be a team option. According to storytellers the cavs only have 33 million committed next season with at least 3 guys they could still get off their cap if necessary. Not thinking they'd need to do a sign and trade to get him (and not thinking there's much on the roster the sixers would want that they would give up except maybe the rights to Karsarev or a future second round pick. Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 12:29 Reply +/- I like Karasev :). A lot. Anyway, how about offering Bynum the max in the first year with a team option for the second year for something like 10 million? That's more guaranteed money for Bynum, and the sixers will have a major asset if he can show he can play. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 12:48 Reply +/- Ok, say you do that - how does that affect 2014 lottery positioning? Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 13:09 Reply +/- If he can't play, it won't affect it at all. If he can, he'll play in the first 50 games (before the trade deadline) and will be able to get them some great young players/assets/picks. Anyway, with a MCW/Turner/injured Richardson/Wyatt backcourt they won't be able to win more than 25 games over a full season regardless of how good the frontcourt is. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 13:11 Reply +/- I think you underestimate the impact of a healthy Andrew Bynum - by 50 games - if he's 100% and motivated for a longer term deal the sixers would be out of the race for worst record I believe - though all rosters are not set yet of course Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 13:33 Reply +/- I think it doesn't really matter what a healthy Bynum can do. There is no way a team with zero shooters on the wings, run by a rookie PG who can't shoot at all and with a D-league level guy (Wyatt) playing major minutes off the bench will win more than 25 games. But i agree before all the rosters are set, you can't say for sure. I do think however, that the Sixers would still be a bottom 5 team if they don't sign reinforcements on the wings. Btw, i think this current roster is a 17 win team. If they trade Thad, they might be a threat for the worst record ever. Stan reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 13:22 Reply +/- It's a pretty expensive gamble for the Sixers' front office to take especially since Bynum's contract probably won't be insured. I'd rather take the chance and sign Tyler Hasbrough hoping that he becomes the next Larry Bird (and yes, I only made that comparison because they're both white) GoSixers reply to Stan on Jul 9 at 13:28 Reply +/- I'd like the sixers to sign Psycho-T just cause it would give Brian something to rant about aside from just losing :) Brian on Jul 9 at 14:48 Reply +/- Saw some discussion above about making moves to get players, then making trades later if you're winning too much. That's really a bad idea if the goal is to get the #1 pick. You can't erase wins from your record after the all star break, and you're bound to get wins by accident as the season wears on. If your strategy is to go for as many losses as possible, you have to be committed to it from opening night. If you start worrying about it in January, it's probably already too late. das411 reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 18:51 Reply +/- ...when was the last time the Sixers picked up any wins by accident? Pre-Hawes at least no? Brian on Jul 9 at 15:55 Reply +/- Toronto = Washington = Detroit + Cleveland = Charlotte + Orlando + Portland ? Minnesota ? Sacramento + New Orleans + Phoenix ? Those are the teams below the sixers last season and my take on whether they got better or worse so far this offseason. Of the teams immediately above the Sixers, Utah and Boston have both gotten worse. MIL and DAL are both up in the air. When Dallas finishes losing out on free agents, I'd offer Cuban Thad for Marion and an unprotected #1 pick in the 2015 draft. sander reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 16:09 Reply +/- Phoenix could be a problem, their roster is just awful. But I would still bet on an MCW-Turner backcourt getting the Sixers where they need to go. I mean can you imagine if those two get into a competition over who gets to take the most shots? It's almost too good to be true. Cin reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 16:27 Reply +/- Minnesota should be better with Love hopefully playing a full season. The way Wall's jumper came on, I would expect them to also be improved if he doesn't get injured again. Kyrie Irving is also looking for his first playoff berth with Mike Brown at the helm and a healthy Varejao. Health is always a factor when you consider who will end up among the bottom dwellers, but the Sixers lack the talent to rise any higher even at full health. Good things are happening. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 16:42 Reply +/- This is how i see it play out: 35+ wins (playoff contenders): Denver Dallas Atlanta Portland New Orleans Minnesota Detroit Washington 30+ wins (bad, but not bad enough): Milwaukee Toronto Cleveland 25+ wins (bad, but don't care about tanking): Sacramento Charlotte less than 25 (bottom 3 candidates): Phoenix Orlando Utah Philadelhia wild cards: LA Lakers Boston The remaining 11 teams (Miami, OKC, San Antonio, LA Clippers, Memphis, Indiana, Houston, GSW, Brooklyn, Chicago, New York) are certain playoff teams or at the very least 30+ win teams if they are hampered with injuries so they do not pose any real threat. Xsago reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 16:56 Reply +/- Of course, all this can change depending on further moves from any team... Tray reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 17:23 Reply +/- What often happens, though, is the teams you think will be 30-plus win teams or 25-win teams have an injury, or things don't work out so well, or they just say, "hey, what's the point exactly of being a 30-win team in 2014? We thought we'd be in the playoffs." And then they tank. There will inevitably be more than three teams in the tank pool. Xsago reply to Tray on Jul 9 at 18:48 Reply +/- That won't really change the outcome. They will have amassed enough wins by the time they start tanking seriously. Portland tanked incredibly last year and still ended up with 33 wins. Cin on Jul 9 at 15:56 Reply +/- No qualifying offer for Rodrigue Beaubois from Dallas. He could shoot this team to a top five pick this year while bringing down oops from MCW. He's a one-year deal candidate. Xsago reply to Cin on Jul 9 at 16:18 Reply +/- Yeah, i like Beaubois as a potential free agent signing too. GoSixers on Jul 9 at 18:48 Reply +/- Ok, so the Pelicans deal did not come together 'all that fast' and it might have still gone through for oladipo or bennett a well says Dei Lynam Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 18:50 Reply +/- I'm glad it was Noel who fell. It wouldn't have been a good trade for Bennett or even Oladipo. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 18:54 Reply +/- Contrary to popular belief, it's almost impossible to decide if it was a good or bad trade until all the outcomes from the trade play out... Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 19:08 Reply +/- Of course, but at the same time you can't really judge a trade afterwards. IT's all about making sense at the time the trade was being made. It's all about process. Not results. Good process will eventually end in good results. Xsago on Jul 9 at 18:49 Reply +/- For a guy who has the reputation of "overpayed" and "not a good player", he sure has a lot of suitors: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228771/Kings-In-Lead-For-Monta-Ellis-After-Bulls-Pursuit-Falls-Short GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 18:53 Reply +/- He does have a lot of suitors But he won't make 36 million dollars over the next 3 years - which is what he turned down from the Bucks when he put the kibosh on his extension. He might not even make 30 million over the next four - so he probably over estimated his value. When lots of teams have cap room - they spend it - but Ellis opting out is going to cost him money - yearly - and probably in the life of his career. Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 19:12 Reply +/- Actually all of the reports state that all those teams need to shed some contracts before offering him a deal. That means he will probably get more than you think. Without teams using the amnesty provision, very few teams have substantial cap space left actually. After Ellis/Bynum (which should be done tomorrow), i'm not sure any team will have enough cap space for high end free agents. I really have no idea what will happen with Jennings and Kirilenko. They are sort of the odd men out in this whole mess of a free agency. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:16 Reply +/- Do you think he's going to get a contract that A. Has an AAV of 12 million per year or B. Totals 36 million in total contract value That is what he turned down from the bucks - the next 3 seasons at 12 million dollars While they both are not good - I can't see any intelligent GM giving Monta Ellis more money than Kevin Martin got Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 19:25 Reply +/- No, but i definitely think he'll get more what you said - 30/4. If i were to guess i'd say he'll get a 3/29 or 9.67 on average. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:43 Reply +/- What I said was he will not make 36 million over the life of his new contract - which is what he said no to by opting out and refusing the bucks extension. So you think Monta Ellis has more market value than Kevin Martin? We'll see Chris on Jul 9 at 18:59 Reply +/- Good article on the Pelicans outlook for this season. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9462545/the-remaking-new-orleans-pelicans Cin reply to Chris on Jul 9 at 22:13 Reply +/- Seeing as how the Suns tried to sign him away, I wonder if they make another attempt at Gordon. They have someone that would fit a desperate need in their pursuit to win in Gortat, who could be perceived as expendable with Len now in the fold. Gortat and Shannon Brown for Gordon would make would make sense (in the land of make-believe, of course). Mike on Jul 9 at 19:14 Reply +/- had no idea Kazemi was going to play the 3: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/68014/dispatches-from-nba-summer-league-in-orlando-day-2 Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:16 Reply +/- Tomorrow free agents can officially sign right? I'm sure there will be a flurry of trades after that... GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:20 Reply +/- July 10th is when the moratorium is lifted and the new year cap information is handed out - all previously agreed upon trades (and free agnecy signings) can then be made. For instance - Jrue Holiday is still a sixer :) I don't know that a flurry of additional trades will be made just yet - as there's still a few names who haven't signed yet (Ellis) and the amnesty wire (which will have Metta WOrld Peace and probably John Salmons), so I think the dust will settle for at least a couple days. While I expect Thaddeus Young to be traded, not sure anyone out there who could use him has much to offer (though the bucks seem to be collecting second round picks) Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 19:27 Reply +/- I'm not sure Thad will be traded to be honest. We'll see. There is no guarantee for anyone. P.S. I most certainly would not trade Thad for second round picks. I wouldn't even trade him for a late first rounder. GoSixers reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:41 Reply +/- It is possible that you over rate the value of the sixers players...I think you are over valuing Jrue in in response to the idea it might have been any one of three players not just Noel that got that deal done. Thaddeus Young's career arc doesn't fit on a rebuilding team that seems to be tearing down to the foundation post 2013/2014 season...plus, he'll cost the team losses next year and whether or not you think that matters, I believe it does and the sixers have made no moves yet this off season that say 'wins matter' next season Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 3:25 Reply +/- Maybe i do, maybe i don't, we'll see how they perform elsewhere. Jrue, Thad and a few one-dimensional shooters did win 34 games last year. A lot of the guys who are getting more money and are valued better won less with worse supporting casts. Aside from Jrue, Thad and maybe Wright do you really think anyone contributed to wins last year? Most of the other guys had negative impact really... Tuck reply to Xsago on Jul 9 at 19:43 Reply +/- I think Hinkie wants to move Thad but he's not going to do it unless he gets a good return. He'll hold onto Thad and trade him at the deadline or even next offseason if he has too. buke reply to Tuck on Jul 9 at 20:17 Reply +/- Agree with your view, but the effect of extending his Philadelphia tenure may have an uncertain effect on his value. If he's becomes more of a go-to guy than in the past, his value could improve, but if he simply labors in frustration and becomes disgruntled on a miserable Sixers' team, his value could become tarnished. He's the longest serving Sixer now and he will remember much better days in the past. Brian reply to buke on Jul 9 at 21:06 Reply +/- Thad's a solid guy. He might struggle a little bit if too much is asked of him, but he's not the type to pout or give less than optimal effort. I don't worry a whole lot about his value diminishing. Hinkie's in a position to let suitors come to him right now, and I don't think Thad being on the team will mean too much in terms of wins and losses if the roster looks like this heading into the season. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 21:14 Reply +/- I don't believe his value would diminish due to pouting but you said it yourself 'he might struggle a bit if too much is asked of him' - he will still give his max effort if he's on the roster next season but the new coach may ask more of Thad with this roster as it is and thus Thad's limitations will be more on display. Right now I think Thad has some solid value (especially based on how much he is paid) and that it is more likely to go down than up if they wait until the deadline. Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 9 at 21:51 Reply +/- Eh. I mean, if they ask him to be a #1 option on offense, he's either going to be able to handle it, which would make him a total bargain at his current price, or he's not going to be able to handle it, in which case I think his value is pretty much static. At $9m, he's a good piece for a contender to pick up, still young enough to be a solid piece for a team on the rise. I'd trade him if I could get a lottery pick back in the next couple of years, but I don't think I'd trade him for nothing right now. This team is bad enough right now to have the worst record in the league, they don't have to move him to reach that goal, imo. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 9 at 22:06 Reply +/- So far I have faith that the GM will do what is best for his plan so I'm gonna hold faith in that for now and watch the second summer league game on the dvr :) Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 3:17 Reply +/- This is pretty much exactly how i view Thad's situation. Stan reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 0:14 Reply +/- My master plan is that they make a 3 team trade where Thad goes to Sacramento, Jimmer and Thorton go to Detroit, and we get Greg Monroe. Then the following year we trade Greg Monroe for Kevin Love. Guys...his could totally work. Xsago reply to Stan on Jul 10 at 3:36 Reply +/- Yeah, if that happens we should build a monument for Hinkie :) I don't think Detroit will trade Monroe without getting a star guard back. Charlie H reply to Stan on Jul 10 at 9:59 Reply +/- So Detroit would trade a borderline All-Star big for a below-average shooter and another guy? Joe Dumars might be dumb, but he's not that dumb. Brian on Jul 9 at 22:15 Reply +/- Hansbrough to the Raptors. They were clearly ahead of the Sixers before the move anyway. sixerfan1220 on Jul 9 at 22:26 Reply +/- @KBergCBS 1m NBA's salary cap set at $58.679M, and luxury-tax line at $71.748M for '13-'14 season, league announces. ojr107 on Jul 9 at 22:55 Reply +/- Speaking of Thad, Is he the starting SF this year? I don't think he has the handle to be a SF, but maybe I'm wrong, this is the perfect season to give it a try. GoSixers reply to ojr107 on Jul 9 at 23:30 Reply +/- Observations from the second summer league First an aside - Miles Plumlee is half ogre - people who are half fantasy creature should not be allowed in the NBA Carter-WIlliams took better care of the ball but one turnover was 'saved' by Michael Eric on a terrible alley oop pass. Speaking of Michael Eric - not as good defensively this game and honestly - I'm not sure he's ever seen a pick and roll - can't defend it worth a darn. And on the subject of the pick and roll - I'm not sure Michael Carter-Williams knows what to do when the big man rolls towards the basket, open. If you miss Willie Green - you should hope the sixers sign Khaliff Wyatt - his game just makes me think willie green is back. Kazemi had a better second game - position change I guess helped but that 'nose for the ball' thing was quite obvious - not much of a jumper - but if the ball hits the floor he ends up near it, offensively - not much of a shot, not much of a ball handler (tried to run the fast break - it was ugly) but showed some finish if he gets the ball when cutting to the basket Trevor Mbakwe showed similar skills to Kazemi defensively - and similar offensive lack as well. Justin Holiday didn't seem all that impressive to me - Moultrie was on the floor but he's still just blah. Not much else to say except Michael Curry has a bit of bug eyes GoSixers reply to ojr107 on Jul 9 at 23:31 Reply +/- Maybe that's why they moving Kazemi to 3 in the summer league- course his handle doesn't seem much better :) Xsago reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 3:48 Reply +/- Kazemi reminds me of Thad quite a bit actually. Thad does have a much better shot though, even if it's still not good enough. Xsago reply to Xsago on Jul 10 at 3:49 Reply +/- And post moves obviously... Xsago on Jul 10 at 3:56 Reply +/- So, as of right now, this is how the Sixers depth chart for next year looks like: PG MCW / SG Richardson / (Wyatt??) SF Turner / PF Thad / Moultrie / Kazemi / White C Hawes / Noel / Allen / Brown That's a total of 11 players. It will get to 12 with Wyatt, which i think is very likely. That leaves up to 3 spots to fill out the backcourt. I think Will Bynum is a lock for one of them if he doesn't get a decent offer from a contender. With Richardson possibly missing large chunks of the season, the backcourt is almost non-existant. There will be a lot of changes i guess. The frontcourt on the other hand is extremely crowded. Brian reply to Xsago on Jul 10 at 7:18 Reply +/- I believe Bynum signed/agreed to sign with Detroit. Will Bynum, that is. Xsago reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 7:23 Reply +/- Hmmm, haven't read that yet. How sure are you about this? I don't think he has... sixerfan1220 reply to Xsago on Jul 10 at 9:00 Reply +/- Detroit signed him Dollar Bill on Jul 10 at 7:25 Reply +/- Suffered enough? If you choose to be dramatic about it. Throughout lifespan of Sixers, they've been one of two things: entertaining or not entertaining. Prepare for the latter in the near term. If wanted to watch young players' trials and terrors, I'd pick a college team to follow. Or snag a season ticket to the Delaware 87ers. Time waits for no one. The 76ers are on the clock. Except in the case of the Hinkies, latest cult phenomenon, wherein strange hope, faith and love abide (anthropologists liken it to an earlier cultural case, the weeping Greenburgs) Dollar Bill reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 10 at 7:45 Reply +/- Above, in reply to AaronMcKie4mvp. p.s. The Brooklyn Geezers will be worth the price of admission, relatively speaking that is. GoSixers on Jul 10 at 9:30 Reply +/- Pete Vescey says the sixers are considering Lloyd Pierce as head coach. Last mention I can see of Lloyd Pierce was that he was hired to be on Lionel Hollins staff December 5 2011 Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 9:57 Reply +/- I'd love to see them hire former Sixer Hollins, but it won't happen because he's not an analytics guy. Isn't there any room for different points of view? Why can't there be analytics people in the front office and gut guys on the bench? Signed, Pollyanna GoSixers reply to Charlie H on Jul 10 at 10:29 Reply +/- Well, no one said there wasn't - but then again you seem to think that you have to be one or the other (though gut guys aren't guys I want coaching the team) analytics are not a separate art or science to understanding the game in general, they add to help the understanding, and it seems a shame that some people just refuse to get that principle Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 11:13 Reply +/- It seems that NBA people think that way. Hollins was let go in Memphis because he wasn't on board with analytics. I agree it's not an either/or question. I think it's a great approach. Guys like Hollins and Collins should be a little more open-minded, not just the management types. (Coincidentally, the Sixers acquired Hollins to replace Collins, who was injured.) Looks like Hollins is going to be on the sidelines to start the season. I wouldn't be surprised if the next team he coaches goes to the Finals. Also looks like nobody wants to coach the Sixers. Maybe Doug will volunteer. There aren't too many Roy Rubins out there. Not to worry, it's all part of The Plan. GoSixers reply to Charlie H on Jul 10 at 11:38 Reply +/- Hollins was let go in Memphis for a lot of reasons - bad mouthing your front office for a trade publicly isn't a non analytic move - it's just a stupid move - new ownership and new GM's often tend to want to bring in their own people but sometimes wait a bit (you know like the sixers with Collins). Lionel Hollins firing was pre-determinded before the playoffs started, it was one of the worst kept secrets in the NBA. Maybe what got Hollins fired was his REFUSAL to even acknowledge that modern analytics can help - and the issue was his pig headed old school ways not accepting that new ideas CAN HELP a game no matter how old it is (Collins was the same way - he was dismissive that analytics could help at all - cause - you know - he played the game so he knows everything about everything) There are a lot of possible reasons Hollins got fired and it feels like your framing it to fix your argument. There are a lot of places were old school and new school works fine - somehow I think Kevin McHale is a mixture of both or he wouldn't work out well in Houston... Cin reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 11:48 Reply +/- If you take Hinkie's word as reflective of the Rockets braintrust, then the ideal coach is one that is receptive, but not dependent on analytics, and focused on player development. Collins and Hollins being booted very much represent the changing of the guards and the correlation is clear. GoSixers reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 12:03 Reply +/- The correlation is clear to you - I think bad mouthing your franchise publicly regardless of your approach to analytics isn't going to help you keep your job especially if the guys in charge aren't the ones who hired you. And just in case people are rewriting the time lines to fit the frame of their unprovable assertion - Collins was gone before Hinkie was hired. Maybe Hollins wasn't receptive to analytics, but there were probably many reasons he was let go, Collins ignorance of analytics probably would be fifth on the list of reasons he had to be fired - if that Cin reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 12:18 Reply +/- His ignorance to analytics is the reason the 76ers lead the league in percentage of total shots taken in the "dead zone" (16-23 feet). That's why he failed as a coach despite being fairly competent at player development. He may have stepped down, but he stepped down because his tenure as coach was an abject failure. GoSixers reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 12:24 Reply +/- There were a lot of reasons that Collins was an abject failure and should have been let go - his offensive game plan again was one of many issues - and again - I didn't say his analytic ignorance wasn't a reason I just said to say it's the 'only' reason ignores facts in evidence (you know like paying Kwame Brown and Spencer Hawes money next year) buke reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 15:09 Reply +/- His last year was a complete failure. In his first year, the Sixers improved 14 games and made the playoffs. In his second year, the team had its first winning record since 2005 and came within a game of advancing to the conference finals. I'm glad he's gone, but I don't think his tenure can be characterized as a complete failure. For the most part, his teams during the first two years were very competitive and often pretty entertaining to watch. His last team was mostly atrocious. One could argue that their 34 wins probably exceeded their talent level, but they were arguably even more difficult to watch than the 2009-10 team. GoSixers reply to buke on Jul 10 at 15:18 Reply +/- Perpetuating mediocrity while restricting the growth of your younger players by making them play tight may be seen as successful to some - but it wasn't successful to me Doug Collins is given credit for game 7 against the celtics but unless he used psychic powers to break Derek Rose - that's dumb luck plain and simple Cin reply to buke on Jul 10 at 16:38 Reply +/- By trading away Iguodala and two first round draft picks for literally nothing, and not offsetting those losses with an increase in value elsewhere on the roster, he left the team worse off than when he came in. Not to mention, as GoSixers has already, he championed some pretty awful players which in turn lead to awful contracts. "Spencer is a damn good player." Ugh. Brian reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 16:45 Reply +/- Whether they're worse off now than when Collins came in is subjective. They're set to have fewer wins, but in terms of a true rebuild, aren't they better off because of the moves he made? I mean, when Larry Brown left, they had a bunch of old, bad players signed to long-term contracts. That's not the situation they find themselves in now. Matt reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 19:12 Reply +/- Should Collins get credit for the roster flexibility? I thought the consensus last offseason was the ownership told him he could only offer one-year contracts. Also when Larry Brown left, the team was, perhaps mistakenly, in win-now mode and attempting to build around a star in his prime. Collins found himself in an entirely different scenario. GoSixers reply to Matt on Jul 10 at 19:17 Reply +/- Collins put himself in a win now mode as well giving out ridiculous contracts to players no one else wanted (with player options on them, really?) Roster flexibility comes from the Jrue Holiday trade and not re-signing Andrew Bynum - do we know that Collins wouldn't have taken another shot on Bynum? Brian reply to Matt on Jul 10 at 19:17 Reply +/- It's one way or the other, I think. He gets credit for the state of affairs because he was the main decision maker, or you can't blame him for the results because his hands were tied. Personally, I think it's a happy accident they are where they are now because the guys he did sign all suck with thee exception of Wright, who's gone anyway. GoSixers reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 16:49 Reply +/- Hindsight is 20/20 - though if the rumors of Bynum and the franchise having friction are accurate - I wonder if that friction came from Collins buke reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 16:54 Reply +/- OK, I will give you that. He was a pretty decent coach for the first two years, but he was an unmitigated disaster as an unofficial GM. I can't blame him for the Bynum trade as I think any one of the Sixers' recent GMs would have done that with or without Collins. Thank God he didn't get his reported full wish with Kwame. On Hawes I disagree with you a bit. Hawes may have frustrating deficiencies on the defensive end but I think he was probably worth about what he was paid for his season last year. If Dalembert's last season here was worth 12 million, then Hawes' most recent season should be worth 6.5 million. As I look back on Hawes' career here I think one can point to a number of wins where he was one of the most significant factors (including a couple in the Bulls playoff series). He may not be a real center but he is not a player without contributions. New contracts seem to be on the low side for second tier players, though, so Hawes may not get his current compensation when he leaves here. Tray reply to buke on Jul 11 at 11:49 Reply +/- Dalembert wasn't worth 12 million, and Hawes can't possibly be worth a third of LeBron's salary. Brian reply to Tray on Jul 11 at 11:50 Reply +/- LeBron's worth much more than he makes. That's a silly comparison to make. buke reply to Charlie H on Jul 10 at 15:19 Reply +/- "Also looks like nobody wants to coach the Sixers." Oh, they'll find someone. Every coach has his price. Plus there's likely no pressure on the coach to deliver victories until year 2. Hinkie may already have a tentative candidate. Who knows? The Hinkie administration appears to be like Martin Van Buren who "rowed to his object with muffled oars." Charlie H reply to buke on Jul 11 at 9:54 Reply +/- Really? Thanks. Dollar Bill reply to Charlie H on Jul 10 at 10:33 Reply +/- Tension between the two camps. As in North vs. South. Oil vs. water. CNBC vs. Fox. Former gut guy on bench: Don Nelson. Hey, where's Don Nelson Jr.!? Dollar Bill reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 9:58 Reply +/- You always call Vescey a dope. And here you are passing along his scoop. Cin on Jul 10 at 11:18 Reply +/- http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=9452045&src=desktop Solid insight on how young Noel is, but you can see the maturity in how serious he takes his physical therapy routine, which is a nice change of pace. GoSixers reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 11:41 Reply +/- You gotta think Andrew Bynum's approach to rehab is the exception not the rule though right? GoSixers on Jul 10 at 12:03 Reply +/- Amico hears from multiple league sources that Bynum's problems with the Sixers may not have been entirely health-related, with several of those sources hinting at a friction between Bynum and the organization. GoSixers on Jul 10 at 13:25 Reply +/- Monta Ellis has fired his agent so maybe passing on that Bucks extensions wasn't his idea then GoSixers on Jul 10 at 15:19 Reply +/- The Trade for Nerlens Noel is now actually official Cin reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 16:26 Reply +/- Been waiting for this all day. Hopefully a presser is soon to follow. GoSixers reply to Cin on Jul 10 at 16:30 Reply +/- Well the trade is official - but not finalized - Jrue has to do some stuff it seems and his on his honeymoon - so I'm not 100% sure there will be a press conference anytime soon. Based on move #1 the next press conference will Introduce Nerlens Noel Announce the new coach and his entire coaching staff in one swell foop (a purposeful spoonerism - i just like to say it) Introduce the assets (if any of them are players) from two other trades Announce the elimination of The Revolutionairies. I'm not sure what they are but mad an they not liked Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 18:42 Reply +/- The later the deal is made official, the later the exception lasts next summer. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 18:49 Reply +/- Meh - a minor thing I guess - the sixers should have no cap issues next year at this time :) Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 19:02 Reply +/- Probably not, but they can use it to make a move without rescinding bird rights on any of their free agents, or to make a move during the draft if they wind up at or near the cap somehow this season GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 10 at 19:05 Reply +/- without rescinding bird rights on any of their free agents, Sorry - that made me laugh - I'm looking at the current roster and wondering whose bird rights would be worth keeping next off season for one minute more than needed :) I still think at least two more guys are gone by seasons end GoSixers on Jul 10 at 19:19 Reply +/- Sixers executive Rod Thorn will replace Stu Jackson as the NBA's executive VP of basketball operations, the league has announced. Jackson is stepping aside at the end of the month. Thorn's new title will be president of basketball operations, and presumably he'll take over Jackson's duties, which include handed out fines and suspensions. Dollar Bill reply to GoSixers on Jul 10 at 20:58 Reply +/- Rod, "country dumb"...he's come a long way, baby. Have to give the guy major cred for surmounting the experience of wearing the Sonics first uniform. His tenure here was quiet. Seems it wasn't all buttermilk biscuits behind the scenes with Collins and others. His effect on the organization isn't easy to measure, which is a kind of measure in itself. buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 10 at 22:41 Reply +/- Supposedly Thorn was the one who discouraged the signing of Kwame to a five year contract, as Collins reportedly wanted. If Thorn did nothing else of note during his time here, he at least deserves thanks for preventing that deal. It looks like he found himself a nice little sinecure to continue his well funded semi-retirement. Some guys lead a charmed life I guess. Obviously people in high places just like him. Dollar Bill reply to buke on Jul 11 at 0:45 Reply +/- Rubs people the right way. A living testament to the aphorism "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not to doubt an array of other executive talents, such as arranging tee time. ----- Jerry West .814 Hal Greer .801 Hot Rod Hundley .721 Rod Thorn .723 Freddie Lewis .817 Ron Williams .833 Jason Williams .813 Deron Williams .819 O.J. Mayo .817 Not a bad batch of guards for a small rural state. And they learn 'em how to shoot free throws down there to boot! Top 3 from the field? West .474 D. Williams .453 Greer .452 Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River. ~ the late John Denver AJ on Jul 10 at 19:52 Reply +/- Andrew Bynum to Cleveland sixerfan1220 reply to AJ on Jul 10 at 20:02 Reply +/- @WojYahooNBA 1m Andrew Bynum's deal w/ Cleveland will include $6 million of $12M guaranteed in year 1, league source says. Team option of $12.5M for 14-'15. Mike on Jul 10 at 20:04 Reply +/- nice signing for Cleveland imo, with only $6 mill guaranteed Xsago reply to Mike on Jul 11 at 3:28 Reply +/- Yeah, if that's all he could net, he's definitely done. das411 on Jul 11 at 7:56 Reply +/- Interesting interview with White: "The NBA didn't know if they wanted to allow the Rockets to pay for a bus, because it could be a salary cap infringement. "When they try to get somebody like Dwight Howard -- they could give him a house to say that helps his mental health." http://tinyurl.com/lrhwyvf Brian on Jul 11 at 10:35 Reply +/- One year, $5M for Monta? MCW, Monta, Turner, Thad, Hawes. Has the benefit of giving the fans a 20ppg scorer without actually making the team better. Dollar Bill reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 11:09 Reply +/- As there's no honor in tanking, why not? Still, surprised you'd want an arch villian wearing your team's colors. Dollar Bill reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 11 at 11:13 Reply +/- Spelling, a sometimes villain! Brian reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 11 at 11:42 Reply +/- Well, he sucks. Think it'd be fun to see a nightly competition between Turner, MCW and Monta for who can take the most bad shots, or maybe the worst shot of the night. Something like that. On the whole, it should aid in tanking. Of course, it might backfire if he was underpaid (in his own mind) and gunning for a big contract the following year. He might not be the right kind of guy to maximize total losses. Dollar Bill reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 11:50 Reply +/- Agree, a bit of a gamble. On the 10 or 15 nights he's sizzlin' he could endanger organization aim. Fun to watch when he's on a roll. Brian reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 11 at 11:54 Reply +/- this is kind of the perfect year to sign "That guy completely sucks, but he sure is fun to watch" players. So long as they don't have too many miracle games. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 11:59 Reply +/- While it's unlikely that he gets a contract to match what he passed up in Milwaukee, I think he'll get more than 5 mil per year (and more than one year) because at least one GM still has that perception that his volume shooting and scoring is a positive to a team. Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 13:15 Reply +/- Give him 1 year and $12 million. The Sixers have to spend that money anyway by either signing other free agents or distributing it to their players. If anyone accuses them of tanking the Sixers can point to that contract as proof of doing the opposite. They'll just chalk it up as a bad decision. Stan reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 13:11 Reply +/- Monta doesn't make this team worse. I worry that a hot streak might mean 5 extra wins for the Sixers. Brian reply to Stan on Jul 11 at 13:19 Reply +/- Think I'd probably say they have to move Thad. I think bringing Monta in is maybe a neutral move in terms of tanking. He'll turn an equal amount of close wins to losses as close losses to wins. joeykey on Jul 11 at 12:37 Reply +/- I would LOVE to have Monta for the year. Would he win any games for the Sixers? Probably not. Is he fun to watch? is he an exciting player? yes and yes. As it stands, I have no reason to order league pass and/or watch a sixers game. Throw us fans a bone, Hinkie! we need a chucker!! GoSixers reply to joeykey on Jul 11 at 12:41 Reply +/- I'm not really sure why an inefficient selfish chucker is exciting to watch - willie green wasn't exciting Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 12:46 Reply +/- It's exciting to see a guy make acrobatic shots, and see a guy get really hot. Willie rarely did either. It's less exciting when the guy you're talking about sucks ass most of the time, but when the team result doesn't matter, it could be fun to watch. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 12:55 Reply +/- I hear Allen Iverson still wants to play Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 13:05 Reply +/- sign him up! Tray reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 14:58 Reply +/- I went to the Palestra to see the Sixers do an open preseason practice Willie's rookie year, and he seemed so athletic. We were all pretty excited about his future. But yeah, in games not so much. Dollar Bill reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 13:46 Reply +/- Ah, here come the stale Willie Green cheap shots. Can you imagine his heights without the early knee surgery? And he endured Sixers' ball of confusion for first 7 seasons! Last 2 on playoff teams: TS% .578, .562 eFG% .548, .553 WS48 .122, .103 WG, nice part-time component; dusk of career; an underappreciated phoenix. The Clippers, in serious pursuit of a '13-'14 championship, picked up their option on Willie on July 3. Welcome to 2013, kid. buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jul 11 at 14:40 Reply +/- Agreed. Willie has never received much acknowledgement around here for changing his game in the middle of his career. Earlier in his career, he was an infuriating chucker, but he started changing after about four or five years. Over the last four or five years, he's mostly taken good shots within the flow of the offense. Mostly he keeps the ball moving and doesn't turn it over much. Maybe the guy mistakenly thought he could be Vinnie Johnson earlier in his career, but he seems to have figured out his place in the league and deserves some credit for that. Maybe Turner could take note that it is possible to have a long career by reinventing oneself along more modest expectations. joeykey on Jul 11 at 13:04 Reply +/- Willie Green/Monta Ellis comparison. What color is the sky in your world? GoSixers reply to joeykey on Jul 11 at 13:21 Reply +/- Sure - insult me while being unable to use the reply button - that sounds good THEY BOTH STINK that's what they have in common Tray reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 15:11 Reply +/- Sure, but Monta is exciting to watch at times. He sometimes has stellar games, and there is a reason there are dozens of highlight packages of him out there (with actually great highlights), but none for Willie. I guess you'll say that only winning basketball appeals to you, but to the 95 percent of viewers who think Iverson was a more enjoyable watch than Shaq dunking on everyone or Kevin Martin in his heyday drawing ticky-tack fouls and converting his foul shots at a really high rate, the way a player scores does matter. So yeah, sure, Monta would give the team some entertainment value without making us any better. No one's saying they'd like to keep him for very long. buke reply to Tray on Jul 11 at 15:25 Reply +/- Very true. During his prime, Iverson was arguably the most popular player in the league despite never winning a championship and advancing only once past the second round. Monta isn't as compelling as Iverson, of course. He's a bit like a Gilbert Arenas (although surely not as crazy) and there is always some entertainment value in following a team with a madman shooter who can erupt for 40 on any random night. Tray reply to buke on Jul 11 at 16:56 Reply +/- He's pretty artful around the basket. Mike on Jul 11 at 17:21 Reply +/- i love hearing shit like this about Noel. stuff like this has been motivation for plenty of careers: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Nerlens-Noel-wants-to-wear-number-five-in-honor-of-teams-that-passed-him.html Brian reply to Mike on Jul 11 at 17:38 Reply +/- I'd make it #6, New Orleans should be on his list for trading him right away. Pierce and Tayshaun Prince are the two who come to mind who carried that chip on their shoulders. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 17:55 Reply +/- You think Nerlens Noel should wear #6 on the Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers huh? You sure about that? Brian reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 18:06 Reply +/- 6 is the number of teams he should have written in lipstick on his mirror. I guess he could go with five for the actual number unless doc wants to cough it up. He'll probably have to buy Moultrie a burger or something for #5. GoSixers reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 18:10 Reply +/- Hell - Noel wanting #5 is reason enough to trade Moultrie for a burger I would think :) tk76 reply to Brian on Jul 11 at 18:16 Reply +/- I think 6 is taken by a colleague of mine, or at least a fellow doctor. Mike on Jul 11 at 18:18 Reply +/- Iguodala said he's been eyeing GS for years and tried to recruit Mark Jackson to coach the Sixers Brian reply to Mike on Jul 11 at 18:28 Reply +/- He's a good fit there. He'll be able to cover for either Curry or Thompson on the defensive end. I wonder how often we're going to see a lineup of Curry, Thomspon, Iguodala, Barnes, Lee. Stan reply to Mike on Jul 11 at 18:39 Reply +/- I was happy when Marc Jackson was hired as the HC of the Warriors. It meant that he would no longer be a commentator for NBA games. I guess Igoudala was the one pressuring the Sixers into that Monta Ellis trade. sixerfan1220 on Jul 11 at 18:39 Reply +/- Andrei Kirilenko to brooklyn for the mini mid level(three years $10 million ) GoSixers reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 11 at 18:41 Reply +/- He opted out of 10 million just next year didn't he? Interesting Stan reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 11 at 18:41 Reply +/- wow. He was definitely worth more than that. Some people were joking that he would sign with Nets for the minimum and then receive a huge deposit into his Russian bank account. GoSixers reply to Stan on Jul 11 at 18:48 Reply +/- I think many players have over valued themselves this off season, the Nets seem to be willing to spend anything though - I think their luxury tax bill right now is like 70 mil next season Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 19:13 Reply +/- I just don't think $3 million is the best Kirilenko could get on the open market. Maybe he just wanted to go to a team that would get him a ring. GoSixers reply to GoSixers on Jul 11 at 19:17 Reply +/- Well - with Minnesota not cooperating on a S&T - maybe it was If he wanted to go to a team that would get him a ring he chose badly - they're still not even the second best team in the east Stan reply to GoSixers on Jul 12 at 9:47 Reply +/- I'm putting this signing in my list of NBA conspiracy theories. GoSixers reply to Stan on Jul 12 at 10:19 Reply +/- Well, if you're going to think of anything sinister, I'd remember what happened to NHL players of Russian origin some years back (more particularly to their families at home) Xsago reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 11 at 18:53 Reply +/- Oh, wow... That is a major pay cut, to have a chance to play for the russian guy... I did not see that one coming... Xsago reply to Xsago on Jul 11 at 18:55 Reply +/- Also, if Garnett/Pierce didn't make the Nets a contender, this definitely will. Kirilenko is very underrated. I thought he was going to the Spurs for something like 3/27, but the Wolves didn't want to sign and trade... Tray reply to Xsago on Jul 12 at 10:43 Reply +/- The team's best player is a mysteriously declining Deron Williams. Xsago reply to Tray on Jul 12 at 10:50 Reply +/- Is he really declining? He was pretty good after the allstar break after he reportedly got into shape. He was playing injured and out of shape in the first part of the season. We'll see, i may be wrong, but i have a feeling the Nets will be really good next season. It's a one year window and i think Garnett's personality will help that team quite a bit. And Kirlienko is a major steal. The biggest question mark about that team right now is the coach. Can Kidd handle this? I don't know, even if i think he can be a good coach in the long run. Tuck reply to Xsago on Jul 12 at 11:10 Reply +/- The Nets seem to be loading up for a 1 or 2 year run at the title which makes the Kidd hiring even more bewildering. Why take a chance on a guy who's never coached before when you clearly have such a short window to contend? Just doesn't make sense to me. Kind of reminds me of the Eagles promoting Juan Castillo to DC in a year when many people thought the Eagles could contend. At least Castillo had some experience while Kidd has none. sixerfan1220 reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 11 at 19:00 Reply +/- woops 2 years not 3 South Broad on Jul 11 at 22:42 Reply +/- Nick Young to Lakers for vet minimum. Guess they're tanking also. joeykey reply to South Broad on Jul 12 at 10:18 Reply +/- i talked to my laker-fan buddy about it, and got him excited about the signing solely based on young's nickname. Brian on Jul 12 at 9:02 Reply +/- Teague signed an offer sheet with Milwaukee. Wonder if ATL matches, or goes after Jennings. Haven't heard much about Jennings. Tuck reply to Brian on Jul 12 at 11:17 Reply +/- I like the Teague signing much better than Jennings who will likely command more money. Although the list of teams with cap space is dwindling so Jennings might be the odd man out in free agency. Teague should be a better fit with Mayo and if they were smart, they'd showcase Ilyasova more. Xsago reply to Tuck on Jul 12 at 11:53 Reply +/- Jennings and Ellis are definitely the odd men out. I don't even know who will pay them. Not only are there only a few teams with some money left, but they all have point guards... Tuck reply to Xsago on Jul 12 at 13:26 Reply +/- It kind of makes me happy to see chuckers like Jennings and Ellis not get the huge paydays they were expecting. Maybe teams are starting to value more than just POINTZ!!! buke reply to Tuck on Jul 12 at 13:56 Reply +/- I actually like Brian's idea of signing Ellis for one year, even at a premium. Perhaps the team could do a poor man's imitation of the salad days Iverson team with Monta being Iverson, MCW being Eric Snow, Noel (when he returns) being Ratliff, and Moultrie doing a passable imitation of Tyrone Hill. Hawes could be this year's Toni Kukoc or Matt Geiger. My only question is could Evan Turner ever be persuaded to play like George Lynch? Reports are that Monta has a trio of offers. GoSixers on Jul 12 at 12:05 Reply +/- For those who wondered about the Splitter contract size, reports are that the Blazers were going to pay him 36 over 4 years but when it became clear the Spurs would match that, they didn't bother going through the charade of the offer sheet. So the Spurs paid the market for Splitter joeykey on Jul 12 at 12:10 Reply +/- just read on espn that MCW and Moultrie played well yesterday - http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/61294/orlando-summer-league-day-5-standouts I look forward to seeing these guys play in real games. buke reply to joeykey on Jul 12 at 13:04 Reply +/- Moultrie easily had his best game of the summer league and was the Sixers best player. It also must be said that he was playing against a front court of Andrew Nicholson, Kyle O'Quinn, and Mo Harkless. Speaking of Harkless, he demonstrated a number of times yesterday why the Sixers drafted him and the potential they lost by giving him up. Orlando has a very bright future and they have the Sixers to thank for part of that. MCW's performance was once again a mix of positives and negatives. He played some great defense, he's a fine passer with good court vision, but he had a lot of turnovers again, and his shooting in summer league has made Evan Turner look like Ray Allen. I like him but I hope he limits his shots to 10 or fewer a game during the regular season. Kazemi should absolutely make the active roster. He's the epitome of hustle and intangibles. He's a great team player and during most of last season, the Sixers didn't seem to have any of those. They should also gives some serious consideration to adding Southerland to the roster. The Sixers would have won the game yesterday if they hadn't missed 15 free throws. Orlando missed only 3. joeykey reply to buke on Jul 12 at 14:26 Reply +/- Thanks, Buke. I'm going to try to pull some lame excuse to get out of my cube a little early so I can catch the second half of today's game. It's not on NBATV so I hope it's on a local channel here in NYC. GoSixers reply to joeykey on Jul 12 at 14:30 Reply +/- Wait a minute, wasn't it the second consolation game - at around 10 AM eastern time on NBA TV - they probably will be re-running all the games this weekend (I've got 3 on the DVR to watch) joeykey reply to GoSixers on Jul 12 at 15:08 Reply +/- I think they're playing the Nets today at 4, but it appears that NBATV is airing the Knick game. Charlie H reply to buke on Jul 12 at 16:37 Reply +/- Thanks for the update. Southerland played well? I'm surprised he wasn't drafted. He's 6'8" and can shoot, if a little streaky. sixerfan1220 on Jul 12 at 15:51 Reply +/- monta ellis to Dallas Stan reply to sixerfan1220 on Jul 12 at 16:05 Reply +/- Since they have so many guards, I wonder if they'd be interested in giving up an unprotected 1st round pick for Thad.... Stan on Jul 12 at 16:01 Reply +/- Tim Duncan's ex-wife is alleging that Tim is a bisexual who had a boyfriend on the side while they were still married. Although some say that his wife is just mad that she couldn't get anything from the divorce because of a pre-nup. GoSixers reply to Stan on Jul 12 at 16:12 Reply +/- And?