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Are They For Real?

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Philly Fast Break on Nov 3 at 20:17
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Obviously really, really early but since you mentioned playoffs...how about the fact that the Sixers would lose their first round pick to Miami if they make the playoffs? What a crazy ironic twist that would turn out to be.

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I agree with all that. I'd also note that the two other teams mentioned most in the #1 pick conversation, the Suns and the Magic, are playing pretty well themselves. Orlando began the season with close-ish road losses to the Pacers and Wolves, but have since blown out both the Pelicans and Nets by 20 points each at home. Afflalo came in to tonight averaging an efficient 22 a game, Oladipo's been great, Andrew Nicholson is averaging 218 and 8 with a .625 TS% per 36 minutes. Suns are 2-0 and are beating the Thunder at halftime. They're getting big production from players like Miles Plumlee, P.J. Tucker, Gerald Green. Surely the people who think what we're doing is in any way sustainable don't think the same of Phoenix and Orlando.

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Tray reply to Tray on Nov 3 at 20:27
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21 and 8, not 218 and 8.

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Tray reply to Tray on Nov 3 at 21:41
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Ultimately the Suns lost at OKC tonight, in Westbrook's first game back, but it was close till the last seconds, and Bledsoe had 26, 7, 14, 3 steals.

The golden ideal for a tanking advocate.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Nov 3 at 21:59
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Yeah. He also had 8 turnovers; the only other player to ever have 26/7/14/3/8 is Baron Davis, in a magnificent 36/8/18/3/8 game. Jordan and Magic missed joining this elite club by 1 and 2 turnovers respectively. It turns out that you have to be a really good player to completely fill the statsheet; if you take the turnovers out and just look at the good things Bledsoe did today, you get some weird names like Sherman Douglas, Nate Robinson, Robert Pack, and Micheal Williams.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 4 at 9:19
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"I agree with all that."

Willfully deluding yourself? Or just backtracking much?

What? Brian said that we were built to tank and that we can only win if our rookie point guard plays like a superstar. That's what I said! Maybe you misread his post or something. I didn't see any deluded crap about how our heart and commitment will triumph over our total lack of talent.

Well at least you have a reason to watch now huh?:)

Damn it, all you people must really hate kittens.

I don't know that any one can maintain their play at this level (the ones in the high level) the major 'vets' are all on a hot streak at the same time, and it's unlikely that they can all maintain play at this level as they haven't before.

I don't think MCW can stay at this level for an extended period of time either, the NBA grind is a monster compared to college, and it'll get to him at some point...but I still like the raw ability he's shown, the upside is there as he matures into a veteran nba player - not sure who the 'first' choice was but I know who my first two choices were and they were both gone at 11...I have high expectations for MCW for his career but didn't have huge expectations for this season so when he inevitable reverts I won't be surprised.

I'd like to echo the sentiment expressed about Coach Brown, the adjustments, I mentioned it last night, just the improvement in how they played defense in the second half versus the first half (though the rebounding issue is driving me nuts, someone teach the 7 foot kitten killer to use his size to box people out please)...that makes me think that not only is Brown trying to get them to make adjustments at half time but that they are listening to him as well...

I don't think my expectations for the season have changed all that much I think the 'professionals' were getting a hoot of saying how bad certain teams would be and honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see that Philly and Phoenix (2-0 and in a close game at OKC in the early 4th) coaches and players using the mockery as a motivation - but you can only go on 'adrenaline' for so long...I still think the sixers end up one of the 5 worst records in the league

Though I'll say it again, if Turner, Hawes, and Thad continue to play this well, they should be flipped for assets as in the long term. Two of them (Young and Hawes) to me are a bit far along on their 'career arcs' and when the new guys, MCW, Noel, next years 2 first rounders, are going to be peaking, Young and Hawes will be past their primes...the third is mostly smoke and mirros and if you can find a GM impressed by the points, getting someone to take turner for almost anything would be better than letting him walk in the off season (which is what I hope they would do)

MCW is 3 years younger than Thad, Spence and ET. They definitely could peak together for 4+ years if the Sixers could entice a dominant PF or SG to town. I think the bigger issue is that MCW has a reasonable rookie deal for 4 years while the other players are all going to get paid. So not the age but the contracts. So you would another superstar on a rookie deal to make the money work.

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buke reply to tk76 on Nov 3 at 23:21
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All depends how they play, of course, but if management decides that Turner and Hawes are worth keeping and they could get them for an average of about 8 million per year in salary, that would only bump the team payroll by 2.8 million next year. They would have two good draft picks (one if a minor miracle occurs) and enough cap space perhaps for one higher quality and one mid level type free agent. If they bring back the rest of the best of this year's team, that should be a pretty fair core going forward.

Not sure who this free agent power forward would be, though, unless the Sixers can get restricted agents like Greg Monroe or Ed Davis to jump ship and their teams to let them go. Potential shooting guard market might be a little better.

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spencer is hired reply to GoSixers on Nov 4 at 8:08
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The "career arc" comment is what I want to address. I stated yesterday that Evan, Thad and Spence are all entering their primes. But entering their 7th year at an earlier age [25] than most players could mean their in their prime already.

I wonder how front offices view players now who entered the league at 18 years of age as far as primes and tread left on their tires.

Most 25 yr old athletes are spry. Upside on horizon, given the striving and the work. Odometer turns on legs (& complete system) whether competing at college or pro level. Average guy peaks at ~ 28 or 29 with physical & mental powers unionized (yes, yes, yes, exceptions to the generalization exist). BWWHD (but what will Hinkie do??!) regarding his currently-frisky cast of players? He's an "asset" lizard; I lean to transaction involving at least 1 of 'vet core 3' by trade deadline. Unless they run Warriors into submission tonite, disenchant Wizards again and sweep Cavs. :)

Do I feel comfortable with Michael Carter-Williams as the center piece of this team? No. I still think the Sixers are better off trying to get that great player with a high draft pick.

So for me, trying to squeeze into the playoffs is out of the question. I hope Sam Hinkie and the ownnership can see this. It's not going to be fun playing against Boston knowing that we're settling for mediocrity while they're building a championship roster.

As for Turner and Spence, what you wrote reinforces my stance on them. Trade them while their value is still high. Some team desperate to live up to their off season expectations might give up a 1st round pick for them. I like both of them, more than you do, but I see them as complimentary/bench type players. I think they are each worth around $6-7 million per year. I just don't want those contracts to be on the Sixers books for the next 4 years.

I really doubt MCW ends up better than a top 7 PG- which would still be tremendous. I put his ceiling as maybe a bit higher than Jrue since he is a more pure PG, but Jrue is more versatile with his shooting.

If MCW maxes out as a top 7 PG I think you could pair him with a trly dominant big (Parker/Duncan, Wade/Shaq) but you would need a third star shooter(Ray Allen type) who would complement both a great PG and big. That type of team would not be a dynasty, but could win a title like the Mavs.

I will have to see a lot more to convince me MCW is worthy of being a 1a type on a contender (I seriously doubt it), but his size and pure PG skills means he will really fit well with a dominant PF or C- some of who could be in the draft. Not to mention Noel will fit great to.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Nov 3 at 21:38
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"If MCW maxes out as a top 7 PG I think you could pair him with a trly dominant big (Parker/Duncan, Wade/Shaq) but you would need a third star shooter(Ray Allen type) who would complement both a great PG and big. That type of team would not be a dynasty, but could win a title like the Mavs."

Just to nitpick, Parker/Duncan/Manu kind of was a dynasty, so I think that if we got a truly dominant big and if MCW were a top point guard we could win two or three titles. I think any time you have a truly dominant big you're in the running for several titles, really.

I guess I mean a Dirk/KG level big as opposed to a top 20 all timer. Shaq and Duncan were the examples, but I doubt they find that guy. More likely they end up with a prime level Amare/Kemp/Love level big.

I'm just saying I can see MCW being the guy who controls the ball and the best backcourt player on a contender if you had the right big. Mainly because MCW's style of play facilitates a big and shooters, so he will blend without diminshing other stars the way maybe Jrue might with his coombo style skil set.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Nov 4 at 11:21
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I don't see MCW as a traditional PG. I see him as a Manu Ginobili- A 2-guard that can handle the ball. If the Sixers can get another star at SF or SG and then fill the other position with a good spot up shooter, they'll be a scary matchup for other teams.

Honestly, I thought MCW's ceiling would be a good backup guard. I didn't think he was skilled enough to be a starter. Right now, I project him to be the 10th man on an all star team.

One good draft is all they need. If they get a star PF or SF, they can build a pretty good team by filling out the roster with free agents and draft picks.

I don't see playoffs in the picture at all- unless 35 wins gets you in. But I don't see a huge gap between a 20 and a 33 win team- especially a well coached one. Brown reminds me of the Scott Skiles coached teams that won way more games then their talent would dictate.

Usually really abd teams are dysfuntional. Brett Brown does not strike me as a coach who would tolerate that.

Nothing ever goes according to plan with this team. The games have been exciting and MCW has been great, and I don't even know what to think about it. I didn't expect a 3 game win streak in the entire season.

I disagree re: Turner. He's slashing like a boss, and using all his 20-5-5 skills all around. His breakdowns look good when they start in front of the hoop, luckily that baseline jay (thanks Rev. Dougie, you idjit) is his best jumper - AND he's drawing FTs (that were as rare as Jadeite under the Reverend Doctor Dougie Wowzer, NBA "Couch").

Is he playing Flight 9 Jr.-style D? Is Luau "8-21" Dang available for questioning?

That said - I can certainly grok where you're coming from d-d-d-doubt-wise. The clock will be ticking Kong-style against Enigmadala on O and Klay T on D.

I think the team is still headed exactly where they are supposed to: A bottom 5 record and top 5-6 lottery pick. This current streak doesn't change anything.

So what is sustainable and what isn't? Here's my take:

System, general team concepts: The fast pace and the generally good shot selection are clearly sustainable. However, they will inevitably be far less effective in the second part of the season, as the players will get tired by than no matter the conditioning they are at right now.

Bench: They haven't actually done anything all that great, outside of showing that some of them might be able to turn into a reasonable rotation player. I fully expect them to play ok from time to time and be instrumental in losing a ton of games. Wroten is made to be a 6th man.

Thad: He's essentially combining his general play of the past 2 seasons with the three point shooting he showed in years 2 and 3. Definitely sustainable.

Hawes: He's essentially the same guy he always is, except he's taking threes instead of long twos. That will do wonders for his efficiency without really improving his game a ton. So i think he's play is fairly sustainable, except his three point shooting will certainly regress to around 36% from the ridiculous 50% he's shooting now.

Turner: He's visibly in better shape, which helps him get to the basket far more easily than before. He's limited his long twos, but not his mid range jumpers. He's efficiency will regress a bit (won't keep shooting 51% from the field), but getting to the line and the slightly better shot selection i think are definitely sustainable.

MCW: Well, there's no way he'll keep playing like a top 5 player in the league in his rookie season, buthis general ability appears to be sustainable. Just like Hawes, his three point shooting will inevitably regress, but other than that, i think he'll keep it up. The 82 game season coupled with the incredible pace at which the Sixers are playing right now, will inevitably do him in after the allstar break.

Overall, the three point shooting regression from Hawes and MCW, coupled with the inevitable trade and impossibility to survive the pace throughout the year will be enough to lose 55+ games. I don't think they will win more than 3-4 games after the allstar break. In terms of wins, I expected them to be in the high teens and i guess i will bump them to low 20s now, but no more than that.

Here's the question of the day. Who does Iguodala cover tonight? My guess is AI9 on MCW, Klay on Turner and Curry on Anderson. If they do cross match like that, running is going to create a ton if opportunities.

Makes sense. At least until it doesn't. Wily vet on rook. Length on bulling, "snuff me" Turner. Weak link (defensively) on weak link (offensively, so far). Does scrapper David Lee cover jaguar Young or 'Haircut' Hawes?

Your friend Speezy due to snap out of early shooting slump (7-22).

125-122 thriller; flip a coin.

I actually think they won't cross match and will stay with Iguodala on Turner and Curry on MCW.

I fully expect them to get blown out tonight, but it's going to be an entertaining game. The Sixers and the Warriors are by far the most fun teams to watch in the NBA right now.

Anyway, three things to watch tonight:
- How MCW deals with Curry? He's a completely different PG compared to Wall and Rose, but equally (or more if you ask me) dangerous.
- Can Turner keep getting to the basket with Iguodala on him?
- How long can the Sixers keep up offensively with the Warriors, who have a spectacular and super-efficient offense?

There is something I am confused about because I have seen conflicting reports regarding it. I Get that we didn't pick up Evan's option, but is he an URFA or RFA this summer?

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Stan reply to ojr107 on Nov 4 at 11:07
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The Sixers did pick up his option last year. I think the front office has to decide on the team option 1 year prior to when it goes into effect. If Philly offers him the qualifying offer of $8.7 million this summer, he will be a RFA. Turner can then sign the qualifying offer and become a UFA in 2015 or he can sign with another team and Philly has the option to match that offer.

Right now the Sixers are fourth in the league in shots at the rim and second in FG% there. They're dead last in three point attempts.

Where did you get these stats from? There's no way they are dead last in three point attempts.

Per basketball reference, the Sixers are 16th in the league in three point attempts and three point attempt rate.

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anthony on Nov 4 at 11:18
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Are they for real, nba.com thinks so, Power rankings are out and this is there summary for the heat:


the Heat have a chance to pick up a lot of wins against a very soft schedule over the next month. They don't have to play the Sixers again until January.

Lol this is great!!!!

wonder if Barnes is playing tonight. i was curious to see how his production/minutes will be affected with Iguodala signing there.

no he isnt playing tonight

So nba.com, yahoo and sbnation just put the Sixers at #1 in their weekly power rankings. This is just hilarious :)

The team hasn't gotten this much press since I got traded. I think this is a positive sign going into 2 consecutive off-seasons with plenty of cap space.

Sorry you were traded.

Lol, meant AI obviously :D

Anyway, in other news, MCW was just named player of the week. He's the first rookie since Shaq in 1992 to win the award in their first week in the NBA.

Most overhyped rookie since...

Enjoying all of this. Reality will set in soon enough. Hoping ofr another close game tonight.

A lot of folks had him as a dark horse ROY candidate just because it was obvious they were turning the team over to him...

ESPN Jumped them from 30 to 10 this week (mark Stein)

And there's a ton of articles (many insider only) talking about the sixers from various angles.

I believe at one point in the last two seasons the sixers were #1 in the hollinger 'rolling rankings' - i took a screen shot of it at the time

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 4 at 17:31
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Only 16th or 17th in BKREF's srs right now. Only seventh, in fact, in margin of victory, well behind teams like Minnesota (+11) and Orlando (+6.5), which is third in SRS.

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Statman on Nov 4 at 17:02
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Curry has been shooting extremely well so far, even better than he did last year, but he's been very sloppy with the ball as well (18 turnovers the last two games, including 11 against the Clippers). I set the over-under for MCW steals tonight at 5.

On the flip side, the Warriors might have the best passing team in the league. Four of their five starters are above-average passers for their positions (Klay is mainly a shooter), and if there's one flaw the Sixers have shown so far, it's been the number of easy layups they've given up.

In any case, it should be a fun game. First to 120 wins!

Grantland did a big thing on us. Lowe accuses Hinkie of orchestrating "perhaps the most naked tanking scheme in league history," even though multiple commenters here don't believe that Hinkie's tanking at all because we've won 3 games and it therefore logically follows that Hinkie must be trying to take us to the playoffs, because Hinkie's omnipotent and capable of eliminating wild statistical flukes from the fabric of the universe and therefore surely would have if tanking were his objective.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/81044/early-season-nba-surprises-shootaround-a-k-a-sixers-shootaround

Well let's see how this live broadband thing works - though i have the GSW feed

Nice lag on the broadband - says game hasn't started yet - nice

Sucks at coming back from commercial breaks too

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:11
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Klay on MCW
Dre on Evan
Steph on Anderson

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:13
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Turner w/ good entry pass to MCW flashing across the lane. MCW 2 freebies deposited.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:14
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Hawes 3!!!

Dre stuffs Turner as sixers fans honor the old Warriors with a crowd in the hundreds..

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:15
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Curry drops in a J over MCW and Brett Brown is on the sideline hollering, "GO! GO! GO!". Got to like that off a made basket.

Hey evan - Hawes is open for 3 - instead of driving when we know you won't score - hawes is the better option

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:17
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MCW was fouled on that J. He's running Klay ragged all over the offensive end.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:18
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Bad shot Thad.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:19
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Bad pullup Evan.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:20
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ET's got to do more to draw contact there.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:23
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Come on, enough with the careless passes resulting in turnovers.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:24
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Dammit Evan!!! Come on man with the shitty passes. Dre is all over him and knows his strengths/weaknesses. He needs to just let the game come to him and settle down some.

So - how many games does it take to get to the real Evan Turner?

3

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:25
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Transition D please! Get the eff back

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:26
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Whew! Wroten with a rope pass to Thad breaking for a layup.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:27
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Somebody want to guard Iguodala at the arc please?

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:28
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Tony 3!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:29
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Terrible 3 from Wroten there. Can get that anytime in the clock. He was covered and standing damn near 3 feet behind the line. Airball.

That was a very long discussion about Dell Curry while the game was going on - good job guys

Just got here, slow start?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 4 at 19:34
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Too many careless turnovers and allowing too many runouts.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 4 at 19:35
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And Dre is now the best spot-up shooter from deep that we think we shouldn't pay any attention to. Think he's hit 3 already.

"Jermaine I thought you were dead " from a fan behind me and VERY much loud enough for him to hear

Turner fruitless drive

Turnerover

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:36
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Evan needs to get with it. Got to catch that.

22-36, after 1.

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South Broad on Nov 4 at 19:38
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Sixers broadcast strangely available on Directv tonight.

Is it the golden state feed?

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:40
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Good in-the-air pass off a rebound from Morris to Wroten. Tony to the line.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:42
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Evan with a bullish baseline drive.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:42
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Evan bailout J.

That's clear path!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:43
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Clear path? Hope so.

Free.

How did MCW look in the first?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 4 at 19:46
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He was lazy closing out on at least 2 three's (maybe 3). He didn't do much on O from what I remember, but Brown was running him off a lot of screens to try to free him.

FREE!!!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:47
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Damn Dre is on fire from deep.

Lavoy turnaround.

Don't get a hand in his face, turner. Just jog after him.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:48
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Careless fucking passes. Got it back though.

GSW is really intriguing. If Bogut is healthy, they've got two awesome defenders to try to hide three sieves in their starting lineup. Wonder if they'll be able to make it work.

Alright, start digging out now.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:52
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Starters back in, be interesting to see if they get back on D better.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:52
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Good take Turner, reverse lefty.

Nice drive, turner. Down to 8

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:53
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That's two cheap fouls on MCW.

Good challenge MCW.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:54
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Good pick Spencer. Evan J>

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:54
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Dre is the difference in the game. SHit. Evan watched him fire one again.

Turner stands 20 feet from iguodala while he hits another three

So who is not guarding iguodala on the 3 point line?

Who do you think?

Well I mean I don't wanna be accused of 'hating' just because the real Evan Turner has shown up

He's been here all year on d.

Tech on Bogut for the second foul. Good call

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 4 at 19:56
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That was weird. Is that a rule or something just b/c it was after the whistle?

New rule last year.

I think being a douchebag like that should always be a technical - that shove after the whistle - could have injured the guy

Drastic improvement from the line by turner. Good to see

Can't leave Thompson

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 19:59
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Fucking turnovers. Clean em up please! Ugh

Fucking turnovers. Shooting themselves in the foot. Horse collar by spence.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:01
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Evan is just forcing it too much all night. He needs to let it come to him.

Two turnerovers on that play, I believe.

They are free, kid.

Frustrating.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:02
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Dammit!!! Stop with the careless passes man. MCW that time.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:03
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Iguo-freakin'-dala. Killin us.

6 threes for ai9. 21 points in the first half

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:04
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Thad was fouled. Come on..........

Getting ugly now.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:05
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That damn pass from Dre was pretty damn spectacular. Wow.

Have no fear gents, the tank is back on.

Did they show ai9 his that 6th 3 then hi 5 some fan front row?

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eddies' heady's reply to das411 on Nov 4 at 20:08
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Yes it was his brother, Frank.

Who got the tech? Wow, Thad.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:07
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Tech on Thad before the timeout? He did get fouled though.

Wroten to the line. How about hitting both.

Or neither.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:09
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Missed both of em. Ugh ugh ugh

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:10
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Dre must have this invisible bubble around him tonight. No one wants to even get close to guarding him. Wide open by several feet everytime.

Down 22. 27 points for iguodala. 24 now.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:11
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Bad shot MCW. Dre dunk on other end.

Bad forced pass MCW. Dre missed alley on other end, but rudely putback dunked by Lee.

42-66, at the half. I should've stayed asleep.

Wow, this got out of hand fast

That was maybe the laziest play I've ever seen by spence

Hmmm. 55-90. Think I've seen enough for tonight.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 4 at 20:52
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You lasted approximately 6 more minutes than I did. They needed a gutcheck game like this. Their effort level was never present tonight it seemed.

This game wasn't a total loss. It's given the bench guys lots of minutes. Davies can move pretty well for a big guy and can handle the ball a little. I'd rather see him get Lavoy's minutes. Orton uses his bulk well to box out and screen. Seems to have zero offensive skills, though.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 4 at 22:15
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That's the spirit. Together we build (for a future 3-4 seasons off)!

Now this is the sixer team I expected this year...

(statistically - an NBA team is going to win 3 in a row in the season at some point - they just happened to do it with the first three games of the season)

A bit disappointed that it got worse after half time - no adjustments made - nice to see Iguodala maybe set a new career high (34)

just got home

looks like i didnt miss much but nice to see andre go off

"Monday, Monday; can't trust that day."

OK, so "thriller" didn't quite pan out. But half of the teams in last night's clash lived up to billing, though they weren't an artistic success, outside of the 'rainbows' drawn by Andre Iguodala and secret agent MoSpeezy sharp-sniping 4 of first 5.

Spencer Hawes was a brute. To HIS team. I knew he had it in him.

'Hyphen' - his 2nd bad 1st half in 4. Garbage time point total. Was Magic watching?

Thad, ghost of himself, party favor to Warriors.

Turner: pointed to game plan as the problem; left out his terrible Q1 play.

One-gear 'Blinders' Wroten - pass verboten.

90-55. The reasonable coach response: exasperation and depression and nostalgia for radio transmission only.

4th game in 6 nights. Fitness failed them.

Bogut's game sure has deteriorated with injuries, in time.

Triple-double in 29 min - nice work, Curry. Davidson Strong!

Pacers: king of hill at 3-0. Sixers and 4 others, 2nd at 3-1.

Humble pie is a just dessert for embryonic clubs. Learning results from both sides of ledger. Lesson learned last night: NBA is a grind. Sniff yourself and you get whacked. If not up, you're down.

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buke reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 5 at 10:09
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"Humble pie is a just dessert for embryonic clubs. Learning results from both sides of ledger. Lesson learned last night: NBA is a grind. Sniff yourself and you get whacked. If not up, you're down."

Good post with a stellar summary!

Thanks, buke! I like association with the idea of 'stellar' but I staunchly refuse to sniff myself as tomorrow's on the schedule. :)

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Stan reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 5 at 10:41
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MCW scored 18 points, doesn't matter how he got them, still averaging 20ppg. Magic Johnson is remains impressed. Also this rookie class kind of sucks. #1 overall pick Anthony Bennett still hasn't made a field goal in 4 games.

Have you enlisted already? And did you talk to Magic this morning?

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Stan reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 5 at 11:40
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Should I enlist in the army? Never considered it. Once filled out a survey in high school for a free windbreaker, but it never came in the mail. I talked to Earvin last night after the game. He looked at the box score and told be the rook did his best to keep the team in the game.

Why you askin'? 10:41 AM post verifies that it's a done deal. Hyphen's Heroes, Pvt. 1st Class. "To your left, left, left..."

No windbreaker? Recruiter sensed your scheming, lack of seriousness. Watch the tube closely. You can get a good deal on an all-terrain HurryCane.

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Stan reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 5 at 12:41
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Thought I was a clever SOB. I guess the military is too smart for my shenanigans. Hurrycane? Just watched the commercial

"A lot of people stop and ask 'Oh my gosh, where do you get a cane like that?'".

I guess it's a great way to meet people and make new friends.

Exactly! ... as long as you don't mind the nickname "Tripod."

Bennett: shoulder surgery, asthma, sleep apnea, fat, 0 for 15. Crisis of confidence? #1 irony.

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mymanmcw on Nov 5 at 14:39
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Thought mcw played like he had been reading his press clippings last night. Forced his own shot way too much. Jrue esque at times. Tons of bad decisions shooting and passing. Barking at refs-a teammate had to pull him away at ond point in the 2nd i believe. Thought he made a lot of bad decisions off his penetration-taking difficult contested floaters when he should have kicked out to open guy on the wing and when he did kick, going to the wrong wing-choosing anderson or wroten in one corner when turner-who, after a terrible first quarter, was dialed in-made his last seven fgs-was equally open on the other wing. Id rather have seen him go to turner and gotten him open looks at corner 3s or the opportunity to drive baseline. Turner scored efficiently while mcw, hawes, and thad all were struggling and should have had a few more shots. All that said, mcws aggressiveness led to 12 ftas. He is going to get to the line a lot, consistently. Loved that brown let him play through his struggles. Crucial show of confidence. There are gonna be games like last night for mcw. Learning experiences. Collins would have punitively yanked mcw at least 5 times, played someone like royal lvey 30 mins, and had mcw playing scared, tentative, and too scared of turnovers to ever get to the line the way he did-the ftas that will be so crucial to salvaging positives from mcws tough nights. We now have a coach who understands how to develop young players-allow them to play through struggles, push the pace and attack the rack-and if that results in turnovers, so be it. Mistakes are part of growth. Collins approach to young players was that of a bully and broke them down psychologically-because he was more concerned with his career won loss record than anything else. Brett brown has been a breath of fresh air. Just for one-he actually spends timeoutr drawing up plays that result in high percentage looks rather than chewimg out his team and then calling a lou or jrue iso so they can dribble for 20 seconds while 4 guys watch.

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mymanmcw on Nov 5 at 15:20
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You all know i have always been a turner optimist-but i truly see a lot of sustainable improvements. He is in visibly better shape-crucial to his improvement at finishing at the rim. Ive long thought he was not far away from a big jump in ftas and i think his ft rate is sustainable. Will he continue his torrid shooting from 2pt range?no. But i think he can continue attacking the paint effectively. He also will start hitting some corner 3sWill his ts percentage stay at 58?no. But i dont see im regressing to 48 or even 50-51. I think53-54 is attainable. Think he is the best shape of his career not just physically but mentally. And i think he is clicking with the coach after 3yrs playing under a guy whose visceral contempt for him was palpable from the start. If he sticks with the overhauled offensive approach hes shown in the first 4-part of a tea wide overhauled offensive approach-i think he has a breakout year. 18-20 ppg on decent efficiency. His turnovers will be up but thats a tradeoff i will take. Still terrible off ball on d-chronic ballwatching. Brian-interested in a friendly wager?i say turner ends the year with a higher ts percentage than holiday in no. Interested?if so we can work out the stakes

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buke reply to mymanmcw on Nov 5 at 16:24
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I believe he can sustain his offense at a reasonably good level even if his performance slips a bit. So far he has been the team's most consistent performer on the offensive end and he deserves some credit for that.

What I wish was not sustainable was his penchant for leaving his man on defense and heading toward the ball or the basket. He's been doing that almost his entire tenure here with predictably bad results a good portion of the time. He's capable of playing pretty decent defense when he actually sticks to it.

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mymanmcw reply to buke on Nov 5 at 17:11
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yup, agreed. greetings buke!

I think packing the paint at the danger of leaving someone open for three is a team wide defensive concept. They (including Turner), are doing it on purpose. They need to do it due to the lack of rim protectors and rebounders.

Well let's see

1. Iguodala made how many open 3's last night
2. It's not helping the rebounding

Personally, I'm willing to go with Turner forgetting what his assignment is because I don't think coach brown is that dumb

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buke reply to Xsago on Nov 5 at 19:34
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I wondered about that. Iguodala was amazingly wide open too many times last night regardless of who was one the court.

Even if the game plan starts out that way - don't you think the coach would say 'hey this isn't working, someone cover him on the 3'.

Can't believe he didn't get his career high last night - jax should have let him get it against his former team - at least tie it

One of the reasons GSW has such a high powered offense is that it is next to impossible to have a scheme where you deny every wing a good look a 3's. If Iggy is hitting his 3's then there is no way to guard GSW short of just abandoning any semblance of help defense.

GSW has the 2 best volume 3 point shooter is the league. On most nights you pick your poison and that means taking away Iggy's drives and conceding 3's. If you are the Sixers and Iggy gets hot you are just done. They don;t have the personnel to shade onto his jumper.

So the Pelicans fall to 1-3 against the Suns, who are now 3-1. The one win was against the Bobcats. I think a real concern with the Pelicans' pick is that if they're clearly out of the running for the 8th seed by, say, midseason, which certainly is possible, they have a huge incentive to tank to where their pick is protected - top 5 if I'm remembering correctly?

All sorts of fascinating things in the box scores tonight (Gobert with 11 boards, 2 blocks and 6 fouls in 15 minutes surprises me), but definitely the best line of the night is Duncan's 17, 8, 8 and 4. These are hard numbers to hit at any age - only 39 players have (Spencer Hawes is one of them!) - and extremely hard to do in 33 minutes as Duncan did tonight, putting him alongside only Shaq, KG, Robinson, and Josh Smith, who each did it when they were 27 or younger. But what's really remarkable is having this line at Duncan's age. Going into tonight, the oldest player to sport such a line was Duncan - 2 years and 9 months ago. He beat his own record by nearly 3 years. By the time Duncan retires, he may surpass Kareem as the best old big man ever.

I have to think that Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday will be enough to not be one of the 5 worst teams, but they're struggling as a team so far.

They may not be one of the 5 worst (hopefully) but you overrate Jrue Holiday in my opinion. He didn't help us win, he's not helping the Pelicans win.

They are 1-3 through 4 games. They are integrating 2 key players into their system (Jrue and Evans), while having another key player out with injuries (Anderson). With Anderson out, with Holiday, Evans and Gordon sharing the backcourt duties and with Aminu on the wings, they are not spreading the floor well (too many ball dominant guards with zero spot up shooters). And while he is already Davis is still learning. They'll get better. They'll be a 35-40 win team this year and better in the future if they can find the right SF for that team and Davis becomes the superstar a lot of people expect him to.

Are you aware that you're going against the grain of the "best 76ers reporter" according to some backscratcher in Bristol, Connecticut (and reported by the "best 76er reporter")? ;)

A little early to discern Holiday's impact, wouldn't you say? Admittedly, his headless "on behalf of myself and the Sixers, I want to welcome you to the first Pelicans game" introduction was characteristic of some of his on-court decision-making. The kid's got talent though. Hope he settles in, has a good year for the seabirds. First cut is the deepest; probably needs some time to heal.

I never called myself the best 76ers reporter, I said that someone whom I respect greatly called me that, and I value that opinion much more than Lara / Steve Toll.

The opinion of a troll who has to hide their identity online and won't address me when I'm standing 5 feet away from them for 2 hours is fairly insignificant in my world.

I think I was always fairly realistic on what Jrue was and what he wans't. That being said, I think Jrue is a nice fit with Davis, and part of the reason for his vastly improved play this season (along with Davis' natural growth as a prospect). So far Davis has been a terror on the pick and dive, and Jrue's ability to shoot and pass off the pick has helped set him up.

I'm fairly down on New Orleans decision making this offseason, with the 6th pick and next years first too much to give up for Holiday and very shortsighted, and with Tyreke Evans just a trainwreck of a decision. That being said, I do think Holiday and Davis' pairing on the defensive end and on pick and rolls, and the other absolutely awful teams in the league, should be enough to keep the Pelicans out of the top 5, even if they do decide to start trading pieces (partly because they will not be the only teams trading pieces around the deadline to get worse).

Besides, I would rather "risk" not getting the pick this year and potentially get a 6th/7th pick than settle for the 13th pick this year anyway. I'm okay with them being really bad. I'll take that risk.

The Tyreke Evans signing didn't make any sense to me. Was he the starting SF? The starting SG over Gordon? Or the backup SG/SF? He's not skilled enough to be a SF, he probably wouldn't be a good fit with Jrue as the starting SG, and he's being paid too much to be a backup. They also had to give up Greives Vasquez who is my opinion is a decent PG. Don't understand why there was a rush to make New Orleans competitive. With a few good draft picks and a ton of cap space, they would have been the envy of the league. Whatever, this is the same GM that was going to trade CP3 for Kevin Martin and Luis Scola. There probably isn't some great plan behind his thinking.

As for the New Orleans pick this year, I'm not worried. That trade was more about getting Nerlens Noel and securing a better lottery pick for the Sixers. The 1st round pick they get next year just feels like and added bonus :)

I'm not worried about the Pelicans pick at all. Even if they end up being a band of misfits (which i think they are), they won't sniff a bottom 5 placement. There are at least 5-6 teams that are tanking anyway and/or have pretty bad rosters (76ers, Suns, Celtics, Jazz, Magic, Kings, Nuggets, Bobcats...). There's no way the Pelicans are behind them in the end. The only way the Sixers lose that pick is if the Pelicans get lucky and move into the top 3 during the lottery.

There's too much conclusions being drawn about teams based on very small sample size and with some teams integrating key players into their rotations.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Nov 6 at 17:54
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I actually think the Magic has a decent roster; between Harris and Harkless and Vucevic and Afflalo and Oladipo and Nicholson, they ought to be able to score and defend competently. I'm not just saying that because of how well they've played, either.

As far as the Hornets, I would agree that if their roster played 82 games in a normal non-tanking fashion, they would not finish with a top 5 pick. However, let's suppose that midway through the season they're winning games at a .400 pace or so. That, I think you'll admit, is possible. At that point, they could either go into all-out tanking mode to get someone like Jabari Parker or Exum or Aaron Gordon, or they could lose their pick. Certainly if you or I were running the team, tanking would seem imperative at that point, and then the only question would be whether we could pull it off. Well, I think you start by trading Eric Gordon and at least trying to market Ryan Anderson, a terrific asset to an NBA offense that they don't really need right now. Then you sit some guys with injuries, play Jason Smith and Austin Rivers and Aminu a lot, and all of a sudden you could be pretty bad.

Gordon is available for expiring contracts regardless of team performance.

sounds like Noel spends a lot of time shooting jumpers during practice. they reworked his release point and feet. love what i'm hearing about how hard he works.

Will Wall again be a human cannonball tonight, only to fade down the stretch? 4-18 should motivate Beal; too sweet a shooter to repeat that. Nene comin', Spencer; put on yer dancin' clodhoppers.

Tonight's WFC marquee: BROWN VS. THE BORED OF RANDY WITTMAN

tyson chandler out 4-6 weeks

im pretty sure denver traded that pick to the magic as part of the 4 team deal last year

2014 first round draft pick from Denver
Denver will convey the less favorable of its 2014 1st round pick and New York's 2014 1st round pick to Orlando

They also don't have a 1st round pick in 2016. They have to give it to Toronto.

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mymanmcw on Nov 6 at 17:54
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Through four games, Jrue's stats are wretched. Counting stats are decent, of course-counting stats being really the only metric which measures Jrue as a good player. despite a torrid start from 3 point range(6-11) his overall FG% is .368, his TS% is .472(last year .496, same the year before), eFG% is .421(last year .466). Free throw rate typically awful-geetting to the line 2.5 times a game. ORating 91, DRating 106. 4 turns/game.

One area where he leads the Pelicns? Usage!26.6.

Now, he won't continue shooting 32% from 2pt range, but he also won't continue shooting 54% from 3. All indications are that he will once again be a high usage guy with a sub .500 TS and a high turnover rate. But he wil probably average 15. 16 ppg, 6 or 7 apg-playing with Davis will assire that which will mask somewhat the fact that he is basically the definition of an offensive cancer-high usage, dismal efficiency. Currently at .002 WS/48.

Getting Noel and a first round pick in what projects as an historically loaded draft will go down as one of the biggest steals any Sixer GM has ever pulled off-especially considering that we immediately UPGRADED at point guard with the 11 pick. MCW not only has a vastly higher upside than Holiday, he actually looks like an immediate upgrade. Jrue shaping up to be one of the worst All Stars of all time.

Again, I will wager anyone interested that Turner will have a better year across the board than Holiday-more ppg, fewer turnovers, higher TS%, better free throw rate, on lower usage, higher Orating, higher WS/48.

Holiday was so overrated on this board it isn't even funny.

MCW is a better point guard 4 games into his career than Jrue than Jrue ever wukk be

Shame that Jrue has a deluded idea of who he is as a player. He thinks he is an all star point guard who should have the ball ion his hands as frequently as befits a top pg in the league.

He could flourish as a combo guard-running the pick and roll with Davis 10-20 times a night, but playing off the ball and living off of open(after Gordon and his .565 career TS%-superior to Holiday at scoring off his own dribble and DRAWING FOULS when he drives the lane-career avg of 5.5 FTA/gm-draws the d) threes/12-15 footers to utilize that sweet stroke. Usage in the 18-20 range. Shoot 5 or 6 threes a game. Use the energy conserved on the offensive end to focus on locking down the opposition's best guard-since Jrue's size and strength allow him to defend the 1 and the 2. Make the catch and shoot three your bread and butter. I could easily see Jrue as a 40% shooter from 3. Get out in the open court and look for easy buckets in transition. Eliminate the 10 seconds of dribbling on every possession.

That's roughly what I see as the best way to to utilize Jrue's strengths and minimize his weaknesses; turn him into an efficient, lower volume scorer who expends much less energy on the offensive end and much more energy on the other end, fulfilling his potential as a lockdown backcourt defender. The 18 & 8 from last year, the all star selection-wholly chimerical.

He has the tools to be a key contributor on a championship caliber team. But as long as he is leading his team in usage rate with a TS% on the wrong side of 50, his teams will live in the lottery and he will live on worthless and inflated counting stats and have a cancerous effect on team offense. Davis and Gordon should have combined usage of, say, 55. Jrue's should be

Fortunately, I am pretty positive Jrue's approach will change not a whit. With Davis seemingly poised for a breakout year(the suggestion that Jrue deserves the credit for this is laughably absurd, btw) and Gordon healthy, for now they would be a playoff team if Jrue could make the adjustments I describe-or if they had just held onto Vazquez and drafted MCW, and never acquired Jrue or Tyreke. Jrue and Tyreke are gonna get us that second lottery pick.

Holiday was so overrated on this board it isn't even funny.

Sigh, complete gross over generalized falsehood to try and make a point even more so about how smart you are versus the rest of us...you might be more deluded than Jrue

Nene playing for the wizards tonight

Does anyone follow game threads on their mobile phones? If so, let me know. I'm testing something out.

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Stan reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 19:37
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I usually do. But not today, it's charging.

***************WIZARDS GAME********************

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:11
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Backdoor cut ET, backdoor pass Spencer, finish ET.

Payton to Turner for the slam.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:12
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Transition D lacking already. Thad J.

bad long 2 for thad goes in

Bad shot, Thad. At least it went in.

I have sixers broadcast for the second straight game on LP. Strange.

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South Broad reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 19:13
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Very strange. Comcast Philly and Directv must have worked something out.

Solid defense, so far.

Turner's lollygagging ass picked off MCW on that last one.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:14
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MCW backdoor cut, Spencer pass again, Thad cleans up MCW's miss

Man, Anderson needs to sit.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 19:16
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Would like to see JRich in that spot, any clue when he can play?

My guess is he doesn't play this year.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:15
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Get the EFF back guys!!! they're lazy transitioning to D

good hustle thad

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:17
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Whew what a brick from 3 from MCW. O-board. Anderson airball from 3. Hawes cleans up the o-board.

Down a dozen already. 24 points in 6 minutes for Washington.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:18
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MCW needs to drive with Gortat on him, not pull that one from deep that rimmed out.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:20
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They're habitual in every single game so far with giving up these early big quarters (sans the Heat game when they gave up 45 in the 3rd). Every single game they get in this huge hole early, 1st Wiz game they did the exact same thing.

mcw to thad

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:21
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Beal 3. Transition D was lazy as shit again.

Thad.

king lollygagger to hawes for the layup oop. nice play.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:22
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Come the hell on Hawes. You telegraphed that pass for a full 3-4 seconds. Turnover.

mcw dont settle for that jumper

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:23
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Hawes 3!

sissy 3

Dead Kittens

better than the long 2's

Someday the sixers will have a big man who knows what 'post up' and 'box out' mean

Sissy three.

Turner to the hawes, wedged layup. sweet.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:24
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Morris has shed the mask. I was wondering if he was wearing that ala Rip as a precaution but just said he broke it in Sept.

Does MCW have that left hand involved in his jumper, or is it just a strange guide?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 19:29
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Looks like a quirky quide, but have to examine it more thoroughly to be more definitive.

Those rotations were so fucking lazy.

nice pass by wroten

Nice pass from Wroten to Morris.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:30
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Good find by Wroten. Morris finish.

Nice pass, Lavoy. Sheesh.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:31
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Stop with the unforced turnovers and guard the arc please!!

27-39 after one.

First positive play I've seen from Anderson all year at the buzzer to cut the deficit to 12.

Offense is fine, defense needs to get back and stop helping off shooters, or just flat out losing shooters. Pitiful defensive quarter.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:35
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Anderson 3!

Anderson 3

Anderson w/ the three, yay!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:36
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Just part the seas will ya.....

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:37
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Good in-the-air find by Wroten. Orton and-one.

Wroten to Orton for the +1. Wroten walks the line between super aggressive and out of control, on the good side of it so far tonight.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:38
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Lavoy, that was just plain fucking stupid. Boneheaded man.

lavoy jumper

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:39
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Bad early shot Morris.

Is that 3 on Orton?

it hasnt really hurt them yet but lavoy keeps leaving Harrington open

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eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 6 at 19:44
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Yep he's sagging way off several times. Didn't want to go out to the arc a couple of times.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:42
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Unforced turnover Wroten.

That's not a fucking charge. God damnit.

anderson 3

Anderson for 3 again. nice.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:44
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Anderson 3!

Wroten can't finish.

anderson long 2

Anderson again, 3-point game.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:45
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Anderson pumpfake. Long J.

Really, really good job by the bench in this quarter. Got them back in it. Need the starters to get to work now.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:46
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MCW back in. Bench did well there.

bad shot thad

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:47
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Thad with a terrible brick from 16 feet. He looks awkward loading up his jumpers sometimes.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:50
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Unforced turnover Spencer attempted backdoor pass to MCW.

That was a walk by Nene before the foul. Unreal.

Good finish, rook. And they don't get back and leave a shooter open, then a turnover + dunk. Come the fuck on.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:51
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MCW hard take over Gortat. May have been fouled. He needed to get back though

Gave up a 3 on other end. ANother turnover. Runout Wiz.

3 FTs for Hollis.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:54
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Wonder are out starters that bad, or are the Wiz's bench just that bad? Bench did well, starters are stinking it up again.

sissy free throws coming up

Man, this team is terrible from the line.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 19:58
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Good finish ET. Gathered himself with the spin.

i swear wall only hits jumpers vs the sixers

Nice pass, Wall.

Defense blows. Brown drawing up a play.

That last three was Turner's fault, which isn't shocking. He's so lazy.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 20:02
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Agree, he's lazy as all get out until it's time to shoot.

bad shot mcw

down 9 at the half

51-60, at the half. 9 threes for WAS. Bleh.

orton, right knee soreness will not return

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:19
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Orton out for rest of game. Knee soreness.

Anderson +1!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:21
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Good catch and shoot by MCW. SPencer pass.

MCW jumper

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:24
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Not a good pass on that oop from Anderson to Thad.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:26
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ET 3!

turner 3!

first one of the year

Turner coming alive

decent chance wizards will start 0-8 if they dont win tonight

Box the fuck out

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:33
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MCW 3!

MCW 3!

MCW three!

Then the steal plus the oop to wroten. Allen with a dumb foul underneath on a made three.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 20:36
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Since MCW only deflected it and Hawes ended up with possession, doesn't Hawes get credit for the actual steal? Curious....

Supposed to be the deflector, I believe.

et floater

Turner on fire.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:36
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Damn Wall is on fire from deep.

Brown yanked MCW right when he was getting hot. Don't like that at all.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 20:39
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He's still in there.

Just came back.

Keep it under 10 into the fourth please.

down 13 end of the 3rd

76-89, after three.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:46
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Spencer is weak, he couldn't even get up to contest that on help defense there.

MCW out again, wasted that hot streak.

nice outlet by wroten

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:48
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Good pass up ahead by Wroten to Morris.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:49
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Didn't look like a charge there on Spencer. BS call.

hawes block!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:50
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Who was that pass to Evan?? And he compounds it with the soft foul. Sheesh

Sit turners lazy ass down right now. What a fucking pitiful sequence.

sissy 3

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:51
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Hawes 3! and another Hawes block!

That's game.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:54
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Good hesitation by MCW there for that runner.

mcw floater

allen hawes frontcourt

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:56
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MCW floater. And-one.

Why were we doubling Gortat that last possession leaving a shooter wide open again, even if it was Maynor. We've been killed way more tonight by 3's than Gortat.

This defense is hilarious.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 20:58
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Come on Hawes, with the shitty outlet pass again.

Nice outlet, Hawes.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 6 at 21:02
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They're shading MCW hard all night when he comes around these high picks tonight. Cutting off his driving lane.

They also put their best perimeter defender on him.

so many 3's

Has Coach Brown filing figured out Evan Turner?

I wasn't able to watch but the comments and box score are more along the lines of what I was expecting this year. It does seem clear that we will have games where we put up points, but I have yet to see us truly lock anyone down.

1. Orlando continues to impress with all of their assets. I look at that team and think they are a top 3 pick in next year's draft away from being VERY interesting. The early look at Oladipo is strong. Vucevic continues to boast obnoxious stat lines (although I understand inflated on that team). Nicholson looks like a player. And I still believe Harkless will be an effective wing defender. Add a star in there and it could be very interesting.

2. If we traded Turner for Monroe... would there be any advantage to that deal for us or the Pistons beyond this year? We have given up all restrictive rights as have they? Super hypothetical, but just curious.

3. I know this will create some harsh "no's" but just curious; would you ever deal Turner for Shumpert plus a 2nd rounder? I am not a Shumpert fan currently, but I think he has the foundation to be a good player in the right system. And he won't help us win now.

Yes, I'd absolutely trade Turner for shumpert and a 2nd rounder.

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Stan reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 23:49
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Turner is going to Charlotte for Ben Gordon Detroit's 1st round pick.

Hawes is going to OKC for Perkins and Dallas' 1st round pick.

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buke reply to Rusty on Nov 6 at 21:51
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Given Question #3, you must be new around here. The proprietor of this site hates Turner almost to the level of a mental disorder.

Nah. I find it admirable when the #2 pick in the draft waits until his contract year to get in shape.

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buke reply to Brian on Nov 6 at 22:26
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Well, OK, he could have increased the aerobics (and paid a little more attention to diet) in prior years, but he clearly isn't one of the primary reasons that this team is looking exactly as expected the last couple of games. You always blasted him for his lousy shooting but his shooting has been remarkably consistent for the first five games, he's not using a lot of shots to get his points, and he's at least trying to get some other players involved. MCW might take note.

What really is apparent is this team needs more help up front. Maybe if they get it from somewhere, the wings won't spend as much time near the basket.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 7 at 0:49
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"You always blasted him for his lousy shooting but his shooting has been remarkably consistent for the first five games..."

Do you know how many career offensive sinkholes have had numerous stretches of 5 or more good games? I mean, players like Cousins and Wall have had so many legitimately dominant stretches and moments in their careers that the allure of their upside got them max contracts. That will never, ever happen for Turner; he won't even get Demar DeRozan money. But as a whole they have been and continue to be mediocre players. I'm sure Monta Ellis fans point to his great stretches too, or even that one whole year where he played like an All-NBA shooting guard (20 a game on a .580 TS% before anyone was putting up stats like that). Michael Beasley fans, some actually exist, were really pumped the year Beasley started his first season in Minnesota efficiently scoring 23 a game for the first two months of the season. A two month, 28 game stretch when he shot 48% from the field and 42% from three. This really happened, and I'm sure there are some Beasley diehards who still think it means something. To be sure, it's tempting to say that three years of being a pretty horrendous player was somehow Collins's doing and now we're seeing the real Turner, but you really can't draw any inference of the sort after 5 games. I think what you'll find if you look more closely at Turner's stats is that, for reasons that have very little to do with the coach and a lot to do with luck, Turner has somehow gone from making 46% of his shots at the rim to 70% this season. Something which Turner would be hard pressed to keep up if he had the size and athleticism of DeAndre Jordan.

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buke reply to Tray on Nov 7 at 10:14
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Here's something you don't seem to understand in your writing: often less is more. You seem to enjoy taking 30 words of meaning and stretching it to 200.

Man, I love watching Kevin Love play. Guy just owns the glass.

Well, the Magic beat the Clippers tonight behind 30, 21, 3 assists, a steal and a block from Vucevic. Vucevic is the third youngest player since 1985 with that line, after Shaq and Oakley. Players who did it at almost as young an age are Barkley, Olajuwon, Love, Dirk. 16 of the rebounds were defensive; if you look for games with 30, 16 DRB, 3 assists, a steal and a block, Vucevic is the second youngest after Shaq, and third, fourth and fifth are Barkley, Dirk and Duncan. Vuce is only the 14th player with such a line since '85, joining Barkley, Duncan, Ewing, KG, Howard, Marion, Dirk, Shaq, Olajuwon, Sampson, Webber, Kevin Willis, and Buck Williams. Vuce also had a 30, 20, 5 and 2 block line last April. He was the youngest to ever do that.

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spencer is hired reply to Tray on Nov 6 at 22:44
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Vuces' fifth 20/20 game of his young career. Since Moses left, have the sixers centers combined done it 5 times?

At least Boston's winning

Testing

Way to go Vuce in a win against a strong frontcourt. I remember watching some of Vuce's better games in the Spring of his rookie year and finding it odd that he often seemed like the best Sixer on the floor. The Collins decided he hated Vuce.

I'm not saying he is a franchise changing player, but definitely admire how Vuce is getting maximum productivity out of his talent. The guy is well on his way to an extremely good career, and given his effort level I think he will help a good team. In fact he would be good next to a guy like Noel..

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Stan reply to tk76 on Nov 6 at 23:45
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When Vuce signs his max contract we can take solace in not having to overpay him.

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buke reply to tk76 on Nov 7 at 0:15
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The Sixers needed a center and they picked who they thought was the best center available, and one of the few available, in the 2011 draft. Turns out they were right. Even when they're right the fates conspire to make that moot.

I liked Vuce as well. I hope he continues having a good career. He was bashed since day one because people thought he was Hawes 2.0, but he will probably end up as one of the better centers in the league.

Turner and Hawes combined for 47 points, 20 rebounds, and 9 assists. Give us your 1st round picks.

Why would you trade Turner? So far this year he's the best player in his draft class by far.

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buke reply to spiller27 on Nov 7 at 10:06
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Do you know that Paul George is having a Lebron type year "so far"?

Now, if you said that so far this year he is the best player on this team, I probably would agree.

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spencer is hired on Nov 7 at 7:27
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I keep waiting for a major dropoff game numbers wise for M.C.W. but so far pretty consistant for a rook. A fear of mine when rebuilding with him and Noel was who would put the ball in the basket. He seems willing to try at least.

Tryin' too much. What's he doin' takin' 17 shots a gm when he converts 40% into points? A lot of schoolyard. Peaked in gm 1 (so far). When I saw him bouncin' pre-game like a boxer before a fight, said "oh no, this kid's full of himself 200 minutes into career." (Thanks, Magic.) 85 shots, 28 3s, most on team. I I I I I. First duty of distributor: involve others, oil the machine (even if it's a jalopy). Sustaining confidence and debilitating cockiness - a fine line.

Lots of talk about all of the 3's given up by the Sixers. According to this article, it's by design:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20131107_Sixers_defense_has_to_choose_between_paint__arc.html

ET has a career TS% of .484, which pretty will sums up how he has been one of the least efficient offensive players in the league. But this season he is at .614%. He is scoring over 22 points per game on 15 shots per game.

Amazing what a change in shoot selection can do. Also he is finishing in the lane much better and seems overall under better control. If his 3pt shot came back to serviceable then the pettifogging would be even better.

Of all of the recent #2 overall disappointments, ET seems to be the most likely to make himself into a quality ballplayer. I'm not sure what that means for the Sixers and possible trade or resigning, as his cap number is not pretty.

Ironically, his good play could make trading him less appealing, as they will never get great trade value for a guy with his call hold.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Nov 7 at 11:13
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I love my swipe style keyboard. Pettifogging? What does that word even mean? And call hold should read cap hold.

My comments may not be of high quality, but they are at times at least unintentionally amusing.

I assume that pettifogging is some variation of gigging frogs but made hipster (douche) like and focusing purely on smaller type frogs.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Nov 7 at 11:39
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If he kept up this production for the entire year, would you feel comfortable giving him an extension worth $40-50 million? I don't think I would even feel comfortable giving Gordon Hayward that kind of money.

Like I've said previously, I'm not really comfortable committing to any player long term until I know who the core franchise players are. I gue some guys will be good fits with any style team (pure shooters who can defend and bigs who can rebound and defend.) ET is a guy who might be valuable on one team and terrible on another.

Maybe if they are convinced they have a franchise player in place after this coming summer's draft, then it will make sense to extend him. But that is risky. I think they are in a bit of a tough spot with Turner.

Because he's white.

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The Six on Nov 7 at 13:27
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Thorpe from ESPN is very high on MCW...

MCW is not going to get shorter. His 3-point shot, which is not yet passable now (despite a good start, it's unlikely to see his percentages stay where they are as he has some mechanical issues to work through and will likely be forced to take a lot of tough attempts), clearly can and likely will get better in time. His size and agility help make him a rebounding asset. And he has always had good vision, so his passing, which is already solid, will only get better.

You know - people always complain about me but you mr toll make this place more unreadable than anyone i've ever encountered on the internet - including the great and powerfully awful belmont_shore

You're either Mr T(r)oll or his momma

Do you know what a straw man argument is, you're an expert...

He's absolutely Toll. There's 0% doubt in my mind.

I love how he tries to throw you off by using a female name.

Brians favorite player involved in an altercation and the other guy gets suspended?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9940501/dennis-schroder-atlanta-hawks-suspended-one-game

Must have learned his Kaman Club from Reggie Evans.

I don't know if MCW will ever shoot over 33% from 3 or not... But Jrue shot 30% from 3pt in college and has gone on to be a good NBA 3 pt shooter since day 1. There have also been several NBA players who have developed a 3pt shot over their careers. Some into reasonably high volume 3pt producers.

MCW will never be a "shooter" but his form does not appear broken.

BUT CHRIS PAUL NEVER GOT BETTER

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The Six on Nov 7 at 14:58
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Thanks for the declarations on MCW's future development. You seem to have all the answers. You should have your own site.

I know this will be pointless but i can't stop myself from writing this.

You're not making any points. You are trying to force people to take your opinion as a fact. When you are talking about future performance there are no hard facts - only good and bad projections. And projections are about probabilities not facts.

And most importantly for someone who thinks that he understands advanced stats, apparently you don't understand the first thing about them: They are the result of what happened on the court within a certain context (position, system, role, teammates, opponents...). It's possible to make some projections based on past results, but that doesn't mean taking stats from previous years and scaling them to the number of minutes a player will play.

The troll should be gone. He's tenacious, changes IP address and nickname when he feels like he needs to be heard.

Whoops

Still thinking about the ET contract situations. I'm of 2 minds.

On one hand if you have a young asset, then it is best to sign them reasonably and then you can always trade them if need be (as long as they maintain health and performance.) For example, Thad is a good asset, even with his relatively big contract. Because he is 25 and productive his contract can always be moved, so it was a good idea to keep him. Same with Hawes. 25 and on a short reasonable deal makes him easily tradable.

So although I don't want the team to make some long term major commitment to ET, I also don't want then to let a reasonably productive player walk. I'm sure he'll regress some, but I also think he is the kind of driven player who will continue to improve his game. So as long as he is paid a reasonable market value then it would be better to re-sign him then to trade him for nothing. I guess in an ideal world someone offers you decent value for him and then you don't have to commit. But I don't see that happening.

My guess is this issue will sort itself out by the end of the year, but Turner has not been a reasonably productive player over the first three years of his career. He was for maybe a dozen games in the first three seasons, and now 5 games this year. I'd be extremely hesitant to sign him even if he winds up being solid all year. Worries me when a guy suddenly gets in shape when a new contract is on the line. Turner is following in Charlie Villanueva's footsteps.

You seem to be ignoring the key reason Turner is playing better, his new coach doesn't bury him in the corner.

Could be that, or could be his gravy train rookie contract is running out so he actually did a little work so he can steal money for a few more years, or it could be he's just gotten off to a hot start and he'll wind up being exactly what he's been since he came into the league.

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jay reply to Brian on Nov 8 at 9:15
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Brian,
I have been a fan of Turner's in the past and I like the start here but I wouldn't sign him without a full year of this level of play and even then...

but to me, while I'm not wild about his fitness taking this long to improve, all reports were that he always is working during the summer (the year with Magee being one example) even going back to college where he showed vast improvement between freshman and sophomore years. He may just be a guy that is slow to acclimate and had a lot to fix over the years.

I see this as different than other examples of contract year pushes like Villanueva because he was working on his craft during the offseasons. The reason I would abstain from signing is because I'm concerned the Sixers pace may inflate his numbers and I also doubt he keeps up this level of play.

Certainly possible, and we'll have to wait and see. The key is to wait and see though. Trading Turner now would be a terrible decision, in my opinion, because what if he is close to this good for the next 3 months? That would mean he's probably going to be a star and was just strangled by Collins (my theory). Trading him in that situation would be absurd in my view, a 20/5/4 guy who shoots efficiently is exactly the kind of player we should be building around.

Or what if he reverts to what he's been his first few years in the league and any trade value he has goes down the toilet as he's exposed...small sample size versus large sample size says regression is coming, better to sell high as the odds indicate regression is more likely

The change in his trade value will be small compared to the negative impact on this franchise if we give away a guy who ends up being a franchise player.

Can you name a franchise player who played starters minutes for his first three years and was one of the worst players in the league over that time? I love how you come out of the woodwork for the half dozen games every year where turner has a pulse and the rest of the time you're quiet as a lamb.

I'd say it's of course a stretch to say Turner was one of the worst players in the league. There are plenty of examples of guys who played poorly with their first coach, then were very good on their next coach, such as Theo Ratliff (thanks Doug), Nikola Vucevic (thanks Doug), Joe Johnson, Chauncey Billups. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others.

Here is a comparison of some late bloomers in their first 3 seasons as compared to ET. The only guy whose first 3 seasons were as inefficient as ET was Antoine Walker.

http://bkref.com/tiny/j6gAy

By the way, Walker scored a ton in those seasons, but I included him as he is one of the few players who was less efficient than ET in his first 3 seasons and yet became an All Star.

The likelihood of Evan Turner becoming a franchis player is higher than the likelihood of a fat guy from new jersey who looks like he should be on the sopranos becoming president.

You're argument was thin to begin with arguing 'could be a franchise player' eliminates all credibility to it...At best turner can become a serviceable starter on a mediocre team - at best - there's no evidence to indicate that he can be a franchise player - he's got good counting stats this year but he still has the flaws he had before - he's just getting the ball more -


another plus of playing at this fast pace is it can pad hawes and turner's numbers so it might get a GM to think they changed enough to trade something of value for one or both of them

Hey all,
Here's a fun read on the Sixers' pace, what it means for the now, and what it means for the future. http://hoop76.com/sixers-surprising-goliath-strategy/

I think Brett Brown has been forthcoming in admitting the goal of the fast pace is to avoid having to live and die in the half court. If you have less talent then you better stick to simple offense. And a high paced offense tends to be less structured and better suited to a younger team.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Nov 7 at 22:52
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All I'm saying is that the fast pace is not part of a tanking strategy. It makes basketball sense for their roster. The GM tasks while the coach tries to win games. Seems like it makes no sense but that is the way you are supposed to do it I guess.

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buke reply to tk76 on Nov 8 at 11:49
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Seems absolutely right to me. A slower pace keeps you closer, but, unless you have a good three point shooting team and/or a dominant frontline player, you're unlikely to win that many extra games that way if your team has less talent overall than the opposition. Lots of players are good in the full court game whereas relatively few are really good in the half court. At least let the players and the fans have fun with the faster pace game. Collins' experiment last year wasn't any fun.

www.vorped.com

I am very impressed with this neat little site and its shot charts. It's up to date as well.

no orton tonight

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buke reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov