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Reality Check

From what little I saw this year - defending the pick and roll seems to baffle the sixers as it has for possibly the last decade or so...what's up with that.

Dear Spence, please have another good game - i want you traded already

It will be interested to see if the Spurs put Danny Green on MCW. The Warriors tried putting size on him with Klay Thompson and it worked.

No one on San Antonio's roster played more than 26 minutes yesterday against NYK. I still think Turner, Spence and MCW will be able to maintain their good numbers if things get ugly very early.

Brett Brown probably knows Popovich's next move before Popovich does. I expect a Sixers victory with Evan balling as usual.

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Stan reply to spiller27 on Nov 11 at 16:17
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Does it matter though? I bet most coaches know what's going to happen but can't out-scheme their way out of stopping Parker, Duncan and everyone else.

I think it matters because Popovich doesn't care so much about the regular season and Brown does. It's one more advantage Brown has. And Brown should know the holes in their defense and how to exploit them.

Hm...interesting though

An if the sixers had more talented basketball players, maybe that would even matter

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Stan reply to spiller27 on Nov 11 at 16:32
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The Spurs are a veteran team and the talent difference between them and the Sixers is huge. Teams like SAS can adjust to whatever the Sixers throw at them. If the Sixers do win it will be because of a great individual performance and good shooting by everyone else on the team.

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spencer is hired on Nov 11 at 16:34
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Brian, like you, I expected a tough season of unwatchable basketball and have been pleasantly surprised. But you seem to keep expecting this team to fall off a cliff.

With how M.C.W. is playing and how they are being coached are they worse than the ugly long two shooting bunch Collins had here? I expect good effort every night from this group.

As far as us handling the pick n roll lets see how their bigs play against our perimeter bigs. Does Duncan chase Thad or Spense or does Pop play small with Splitter on the bench.

I have bought in to enjoying every game and letting the pingpong balls fall where they may. If we get a 5 to 8 pick and a ten to 15 pick from N.Orleans, along with Noel and Moultrie and a free agent or 2 down the road than I trust Hinkie to get the most out of that.

The only 'coaching' benefit I can think of tonight is if poppovich feels pity on his old friend and rests his big names cause it's one unimportant game in the schedule for the spurs

no duncan tonight

i wont be in the thread til sometime in the 2nd half tonight

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spencer is hired reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 11 at 17:48
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Watch out for Aaron Baynes tonight, a developmental project of the spurs at 250 plus lbs.. It must be nice to let young guys grow without throwing them out there. I wonder if C.Joseph is Parkers' replacement down the road.

See - like said - doing a favor

Not to mention - but sitting Timmy he gives Hawes a chance to put up numbers 'against the spurs' and thus maybe get some GM to be willing to shore up their bench.

Now if only some team had need of a big man and had a draft pick

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 11 at 18:19
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Knicks? Thunder? Bogut insurance?

Knicks and Warriors don't have a draft pick. And i think the Thunder are grooming Adams.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Nov 11 at 18:58
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I think they're really happy with what they're getting from Adams too, but if you buy the popular consensus that Perkins is absolutely useless now, that still leaves a starting spot to upgrade, or at least 20 minutes of bench work.

There are definitely teams that could use Hawes. If you're willing to take a late first-rounder back as the main asset, pretty much every playoff team could use him off the bench, outside of maybe Houston. Although Houston would probably gladly swap Hawes for Asik. Asik carries a hefty salary for being Dwight insurance.

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Tray reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 18:56
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I am using a mobile phone.

Any playoff team seems bold, but I guess that's true. The Clippers have Antwan Jamison and Byron Mullens on their roster. The Heat could use him more or less in place of Rashard Lewis and Oden. But what can these teams give us?

can you take a quick look at this, just let me know if it's readable in portrait and landscape, and if it's easier to interact w/ the comment thread. Also, what type of mobile phone. http://www.depressedfan.com/tcoms.php

it's a work in progress and will only make sense on a mobile phone right now. gracias.

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Tray reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 19:09
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It's easier, although everything seems clustered to the left. But my phone has a square screen; it's the new BlackBerry 10 with the keyboard.

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Tray reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 19:12
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Also, for some reason "tray replied to brian" has become "tray reply to brian."

Yeah, that's intentional. Want to keep the header for each comment to one line so it's easier to scroll through on your phone.

Cool, thanks. I appreciate it.

Miami can give us our pick back if we make the playoffs :)

Anyone using a mobile phone to view the site right now?

Aaaaaand we're off.....Hawes loses the tip.


MCW w/ really nice D on Parker, Turner w/ a brick in the lane. Good start.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:12
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MCW help-side block.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:13
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MCW helping off steal.

ET brick 3.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:14
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Splitter is getting way too deep way too easily on Spencer.

MCW has bailed them out twice on those.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:14
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Thad with a heck of a brick for 3. ugh

Ugh, I hate Sean Elliot in the booth.

Another block for MCW.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:16
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MCW block. ET dancing in the lane for a floater.

Spurs are running early here, Green 3.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:17
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Thad with another brick from 20 this time. I really wish he'd stop shooting the jumpers. They're so off and with hardly any touch.

Parker's eyes lit up when Turner switched onto him there.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:20
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Turnerover.

Turnerover.

Man, they're collectively building a hell of a house.

Anderson converts.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:21
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HA HA Hawes! That looked funny. hah

Look at spence fighting for boards, dribbling driving and following his miss.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:24
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ET take and finish at the rim.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:25
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Thad and Lavoy were confused with who had who there it seemed. Both of them left Splitter to guard the same guy.

Of the teams that were supposed to tank with hot starts, which hot start is most sustainable? I think i'd go Orlando, then us, then Phoenix, except we have more to trade away. They may move Dragic and that's about it, and he hasn't even really played for them.

Depends on what you mean by sustainable. If their effort level stays consistent and they don't trade anyone, this is about a 30-35 win team once everyone settles into their natural production levels. Winning 4 out of every 7 isn't sustainable at all.

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Tray reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 19:33
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Isn't that a huge increase from what you projected coming in to the season? Is it all because of mcw? I don't know what his natural level is yet.

MCW, the system and the hustle. Yeah, I thought they'd win less than 20.

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Tray reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 19:39
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Sunnergren made a reasonable argument at hoop76 that a high-possession game ought to hurt us over time.

Yeah, more possessions is not a good thing for a bad team general. Typically, you slow it down to keep the total deficit lower. Luck can overcome a small deficit.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 19:43
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It may hurt from a perspective of 32 wins becoming only 26 wins. The only thing that I see that can hurt us (or help depending on who's judging) is the GM pulling the trigger on some trades. This system and with continued hustle, as mentioned by the host, they're not gonna be anywhere in the running for a top pick. They'll likely be hanging around for the 8th seed with probably around 10 or so games to go as bad as the East is.

The host said 30 to 35 wins if we trade no one, which seems improbable, but whatever you'd like to believe.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 19:56
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What do you believe, if they trade no one and the roster stays as is? As bad as the East is now....

Turner's D has been as bad as his O has been good thus far this year.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:29
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The Spurs and some moving and passing jokers.

Lavoy with a way too short airball.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:30
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Come on Lavoy, lazy fucking pass when the guy wasn't even looking. Lavoy sucks major!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:33
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That was a near disaster, with apologies to the citizens of the Phillipines.

13-31 after 1 hilariously bad quarter. The Spurs aren't one of the teams in the league that's going to let the Sixers' smoke and mirrors make a difference. I'll be surprised if they aren't down 30 at the half.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:37
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Wroten with a hard take.

Hawes block. Hawes with what was supposed to be a running hook. And-one.

Brown really should've been using Wroten for Turner on defense at the end if the CLE game. I like his work on d.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:39
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MCW steal.

ET 3!

Big run to keep me tuned in. MCW with another steal, Turner hits a three to push it to 10-0.

Turner is helpless on d

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 19:46
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What kills me is he throws his hands up in disbelief everytime he is abused.

He's never been abused, he's only ever been hamstrung by the refs.

Nice stuff by turner

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:46
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Spencer 3!

Hawes triple

Make up your mind on the p&r

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:48
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Don't see why with Hawes pulling the big out of the lane, he's not trying to set picks for MCW to get by Parker and all the way to the rim. Parker can't come close to contesting a MCW layup or floater or in-close shot.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:51
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Evan deep again, off the glass.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:52
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Parker just whizzed right by MCW and Hawes for a layup.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:53
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Spencer not being able to come close to protecting the rim is why I cringe when I hear talk of him being re-signed, even in a reserve role.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 19:58
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They had the lead back down to 8, and it's back to 20 just like that.

Down 19 at the half.

I didn't realize the Jazz was 0-7. Is it because of bad coaching or is it because neither Gordon Hayward or Derrick Favors are better than Evan Turner?

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Tray reply to Sta on Nov 11 at 21:03
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Hayward has had a decent season so far, as has Kanter; it's pretty much everyone else being awful. Also, Trey Burke is hurt (not that he looked any good in preseason) and Jamaal Tinsley is their starting point guard.

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buke reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 21:57
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Another explanation might be that Utah just isn't very good. Their poor start isn't so surprising to me. When they made their moves in the summer, I thought they might be the Sixers' closest competition.

As far as Favors and Hayward, their simply not illustrious examples of team leaders at this point in their careers. Hayward seems like a high floor but low ceiling player. He's not likely to play as badly as Turner has at times, but he's also unlikely to play as well as Turner can in any given game (at least offensively). Favors is still very young and, especially when talking about a big man, you want to have a little more patience, but so far his game appears to be significantly more limited than Hawes.

I think Hawes and Turner are playing at a higher level than Hayward and Favors so far this year. Add Thad, rookie of the year so far Williams (not even a close call at this point), and full tilt Wroten and I don't think it's a mystery why our team has done better than them to this point.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 11 at 22:19
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Yeah, I completely agree that the fact that our players are playing better than their players in the last seven games explains why we're doing better than they are. As far as Hawes actually being better than Favors or Turner actually being better than Hayward, no way.

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buke reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 23:48
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"As far as Hawes actually being better than Favors or Turner actually being better than Hayward, no way."

But, you don't really know that yet, do you? Being a pro basketball enthusiast and doing queries in Basketball Reference doesn't make you Nostradamus. Hawes has done more in his career so far than Favors and Favors may not develop as hoped. Hayward has been less erratic during his previous three years than Turner, but Turner could be the more accomplished player from now through the future. Again, you don't know. None of the information you have at your disposal gives you those answers.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 12 at 1:06
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Yeah, that's true. Turner may suddenly outstrip Hayward in his fourth season yet. I don't agree that Hawes has "done more" than Favors, because Favors actually has made it harder for many NBA players to score in his brief career. And back to Hayward, "less erratic" is a nice way of putting it. Turner has never been erratic, just consistently bad, with a few decent stretches of play mixed in. Hayward is a good shooter who can get off the ground, and for those reasons (and probably some mental ones too) he's been a better player than Turner in each year they've been in the league. I don't know what's the point of talking about things if every time we come across a clear-cut case of one player being a lot better than another, we have to add in some silly proviso that, for example, Vucevic could one day somehow out-develop Anthony Davis. How many guards can you name who suddenly became much better players at the age of 25 or older anyway, after three or more seasons? I think that's probably a pretty short list.

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buke reply to Tray on Nov 12 at 10:09
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The comparison isn't just about Turner; it's also about Hayward. It's not that unusual for a player to be pretty good for his first three to five years and fade fairly quickly afterward. Philadelphia's own Lionel Simmons comes to mind. Again, we can't predict these things with any certainty.

"I don't know what's the point of talking about things if every time we come across a clear-cut case of one player being a lot better than another, we have to add in some silly proviso that,"

Actually, you don't "talk." You lecture, and not in an entertaining or enlightening fashion.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 12 at 10:19
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Ok, great, we have no clue if Player A, who's twice as good as Player B and was drafted in the same year, will be surpassed by Player B. And you're going to suggest there's a decent chance he will be, because Player B is on the Sixers and you're a homer. Like I said, there's no point in even discussing basketball if every time someone points out that one player's leaps and bounds better than the other someone like you is going to come in and say that the future's so unpredictable we don't know anything.

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buke reply to Tray on Nov 12 at 11:26
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The evidence over the first three years indicates that Hayward has been better than Turner, but not by "leaps and bounds." If I am a homer, then perhaps you are the opposite: one who believes that the grass is always greener outside of your own yard. Or, to put it another way: familiarity breeds contempt.

I didn't offer any probabilities of Turner eclipsing Hayward as you suggest. I wouldn't have any idea of how to quantify that. It's OK to admit that you don't really know something. In fact, it's quite liberating.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 12 at 11:55
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He's been quite a lot better. Now, recall that all the commenter ever asked about was why Utah is losing all these games, and I just said that it's because all their players are playing awfully except for Hayward and Kanter, which is true. Richard Jefferson, for example, is out there chucking up a ton of shots, and making 33% of them. Another problem is that Hayward is the only player there worth guarding outside of 15 feet. Nothing in what I said suggested that Hayward and Favors are better or worse than anyone on the Sixers. Nevertheless, you come in and want to start some argument about how maybe it's because Hayward isn't so good, and is no better than Turner, and so on, because for you everything always has to come back to propping up our lousy players, even in conversations that have nothing to do with our lousy players, like conversations about why Utah is bad.

But fine, let's talk about Hayward and Turner. There are advanced stats that say Hayward won his team about 5 1/2 games last year, and Turner won his team 2. Is that out of whack? No, I don't think so, because last year Hayward produced a point per shot to Turner's 0.9, and got to the line at twice the rate Turner did, a very high rate of 2 free throws for every 5 shots. A possession that ended with Hayward taking a shot or going to the line produced about 1.3 points for his team, compared to 0.96 for Turner's. And those are very substantial differences. If you had a team where everyone shot as well as Evan Turner, that team would have ranked last in adjusted shooting percentage last season, by a long shot. A team that shot as well as Hayward would have ranked 13th. And that's before you factor in all the foul shots Hayward took; after you take them into account, an offense where everyone scored like Hayward would be among the best in the league. In addition, Hayward's not as bad a defender as Turner is. Turner does get many more rebounds than Hayward, but on a team that lacked bigs, which isn't a problem in Utah.

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Tray reply to buke on Nov 11 at 22:29
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Also, I believed he asked why they were 0-7, not why they have a worse record than us, or why we're .500. The reason they're 0-7, quite simply, is that everyone on the team aside from two players has played awfully. The team has shot 40% from the field this year. This will probably not continue.

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Tray reply to Tray on Nov 11 at 22:17
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Now they've switched to John Lucas III at point.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 20:18
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MCW bad shot early from deep.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 20:20
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MCW to the rim hard but Hawes didn't have Splitter pulled out of the lane. Splitter blocked the dunk attempt by MCW.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 20:21
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Good pass Hawes, to Anderson cutting under the hoop.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 20:21
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Thad bricks another bad 3. Stop it Thad, please.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 11 at 20:22
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Alright, they've about extended it enough to where I don't have to watch anymore. 27 now.

Fitting title, Brian.

This was the type of stat line that I expected from MCW... let's just hope this is not a regular occurrence.

Hopefully all those wins were just the classic hot start under a new coach. Charlotte did that last year and was awful for the rest of the season. With a not terribly robust schedule, Sixers have been outscored by an average of 4 points a game this season. Today's result skews that, but still, it's promising if you're a tanking fan.

did MCW play as bad as the box score would indicate?

Definitely one of his worst games, but San Antonio almost always makes us look bad. Nobody looked really good although Hawes looked a little better than most. Thank God we don't play them more than twice.

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spencer is hired on Nov 12 at 9:15
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Everybody talks about playoff teams trading for our guys but a team with high expectations going in to this season, Detroit, could be the ideal trade partner.

Starting 2-4 and with Josh Smith jacking up a lot of 3's from the small forward position maybe they rethink their strategy and give us Monroe and C.Villanueva [expiring] for Spence and Evan. They get their s.f. and a center to split time with Drummond and we give M.C.W. a year to jell with a solid post player.

Don't forget the college doubleheader tonight where about 10 of the top 15 picks in this draft will be showcased on ESPN. A lot of s.g.'s on display.

why do people continue to think monroe is a fair return for turner?

detriot isnt gonna do that and hinkie isnt gonna trade for someone about to enter RFA

One person isn't people...I don't think anyone with a clear unbiased head thinks it's a fair deal (and with Noel as a rookie next year would Monroe even be useful to get unless the plan was to flip him to someone else?).

I think Hawes will go first, hopefully before his numbers start to level off, though maybe some GM is dazzled by Turners early season play and thinks 'need points'

it might not be here but on twitter i see alot monore for turner pop up a decent amount of time

*monroe

Well serves you right for reading TWITter

There's also a Dallas trade being circulated around by some guy from Fox Sports Ohio: Turner for Marion and a draft pick.

Best not to put too much importance on any of these. Journalism is in a dire condition these days and most of these Web heads are little more than glorified interns speculating rather than reporting.

the DAL trade makes more sense than the DET one

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Stan reply to buke on Nov 12 at 14:02
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I heard a rumor that I made up about Thad, Moultrie and Lavoy going to Charlotte in exchange for Ben Gordon, Jeff Taylor and 2-1st round picks(Portland and Detroit's)

How many voices are actually in your head?

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buke reply to Stan on Nov 12 at 15:50
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I like that one. Let's get that one circulating around the web.

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spencer is hired reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 12 at 11:33
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All the players involved are at the end of deals and trades are made all the time to make"the pieces fit" for teams. If Hinkie thinks Monroe and Noel compliment each other and Monroe is capable of stepping out to defend p.f.'s and leaving Noel in the lane area it would be a good move, in my opinion.

As far as Turner versus Monroe, do you really think it is not close? Monroe is playing away from the basket more and more and is an excellent passer. Similarly to K.Love, he needs a shotblocker next to him, and we have him in house already.

A young core of M.C.W., Noel and Monroe would be a great starting point to build off of. And the fact he has been injury free adds to his value.

So ESPN published one of their '5 on 5' things today where they ask 5 of their 'bloggers' 5 questions. Today it's about the draft, and question number 3 is

Who is Michael Carter-Williams 2014 comparable? Ignoring the awkwardness of the question, I was pretty impressed to see that's the guy they are focusing on.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9959812/nba-5-5-panel-experts-debates-2014-draft-prospects

Did anyone notice that Rudy Gay took 37 shots (made 11) in a double overtime loss to Houston last night? DeRozan took 25 and made 6.

How did they even get to OT?

With no insight but looking at the box score I'm going to say patrick beverly's complete suckage and dwight howard 4-12 from the line had something to do with it

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buke reply to Brian on Nov 12 at 17:44
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Don't know. Wish I would have seen the game. Maybe their bad shooting was particularly concentrated in the second overtime, say 2-20.

i really hope gary harris is around to take with the pelicans pick

Duke plays Kansas today at 9:30. Jabari Parker vs. Andrew Wiggins.

15-20 minutes after the MSU/Kentucky game ends which will probably be closer to 10 EST

So I am sure several of you are watching these games tonight.

1. Julius Randle is amazing to watch. That bruiser PF that has a handle and a touch around the basket. I understand that there could be questions about his size and how he will translate to the pro's, but I am very high on this guy and his career. He has an alpha dog mentality and did much more than just "hang" with the MSU frontline. I have a tough time seeing Hinkie pass on this guy given his motor relative to Wiggins.

2. Jabari Parker also looks like he will be a very solid scorer in the NBA. The Carmelo comparisons make a lot of sense to me. I am still on the fence regarding how he will translate on defense, but I am not concerned about his athleticism on the offensive end. His floor just seems very very high to me, maybe highest of Wiggins, Randle, Parker.

3. Wiggins. I knew what to expect for him: raw, freak ahtlete, not quite there yet. But even with all of that, I am not sure I can get fully on the train. He is loading up the state sheet as we speak. Grabbing some boards. Making athletic, although not polished, finishes. I just hae a tough time seeing what makes him "so" different than Rudy Gay, Demarr Derozen, etc. His shooting doesn't look great. His handle looks off. I can DEFINITELY see the ceiling. If he touched up his game he has the quickness and athleticism to be unreal, but is he much further along than those other guys were?

One thing is for sure. I would be absolutely fine getting any of those 3 guys in this draft. Even with my uncertainty on Wiggins, I will buy into the hype.

Other tidbits:

James Young from Kentucky looks like he might have something there. Some stroke, decent handle, good size. I will be interested to watch him develop.

Selden Jr. for Kansas also seem intriguing. Can't figure out if he is quick enough to play the 2 in the pro's but he looks pretty poised out there. Good handle and stroke. Some alpha dog. I could basically seem him being the Bledsoe to Wall (Wiggins). Good prospect that just doesnt get the attention. Not comparing their games at all, just attention.

This basketball has been fun to watch. And I am a buyer of the hype here.

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buke reply to Rusty on Nov 12 at 23:52
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As far as less celebrated players in the Duke vs. Kansas game, Perry Ellis has been KU's best player so far tonight and Derrick Hood has been pretty good for Duke.

But, I agree that Julius Randle has been the most visually impressive of the star freshmen tonight. He got off to a slow start but he was holy terror once he got going. After watching him, I don't have much doubt about him "translating" quite well in the NBA.

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spencer is hired reply to buke on Nov 13 at 7:43
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Wiggins almost seemed like a "reluctant star" who would rather allow the game to come to him. The Pippen comparisons make sense. You can't discount personality when picking your franchise player.

With his left hand and postgame Randle reminded me of a more athletic W.Tisdale. He didn't float on the perimeter at all, a percieved weakness.

Selden stood out to me as the best passer on the floor in game 2. He has an odd "in between" game and the athletism of a P.Pierce "current addition" and wonder if he can shoot from deep at all.

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spencer is hired reply to spencer is hired on Nov 13 at 7:46
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Parker flat out scores the ball and makes plays, if he is a consolation prize I am buying. Looks like a great shooter and his bio on draftexpress is Grant Hill like.

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Tray reply to Rusty on Nov 13 at 10:03
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Way farther along than Gay and DeRozan were as freshmen, I think.

no question Randle was the most impressive of all the stars last night. dude is a beast with a mean streak. i was also impressed with Parker i had no clue he could shoot like that. Wiggins is def a project but it's still super early in the season. he's got to fill out that uniform he looks the most immature physically, but he could still be the best of the bunch by the draft.

I have not watched the entire game yet (taping replays on ESPNU this morning) but did Parker leave his feet to get a rebound in last nights game? Didn't see it once in the Davidson game (yes I know he had the nice block on that one 'continuation' play early in the game, but still he wasn't boxing out or leaving his feet for rebounds in the portion I watched last night)

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The Six reply to GoSixers on Nov 13 at 11:49
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I don't know but he sure left his feet for that sick, one-handed, grant-hill-esque alley-oop.

Didn't see that yet, but I was impressed with his vertical on that block - but his lack of 'fight' for rebounds so far is concerning...but maybe that's just a maturity thing the Duke coach can work on.

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Stan reply to Mike on Nov 13 at 11:53
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Do you think Randle will be able to get off the same shots against a 7ft center in the NBA? It felt like a lot of his shots would have been blocked at the rim if he was playing against a better opponent.


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