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I Can Tank Better Than You!

I'm worried about this game. At home vs the Bucks in their current state is a very winnable game. Actually i expect the sixers to win this one.

Btw, i think the Bucks will probably improve quite a bit when they get healthy. Their best 2 players (Sanders and Ilyasova) have barely played this season nor has their new starting PG - Knight. They are not tanking right now. They just don't have enough healthy productive players to win.

Yeah, I don't think the Bucks are deliberately tanking, just stumbling their way to a bad record and little future.

Wow, I knew APM loved Thad, but i didn't know he rated 11th best in the league well over the past 2 years...


Good article, but the conclusion should really be that they won't trade him if they really see him as the 11th best player in the league, because he's making peanuts.

no thad tonight

please dont start orton

this team has enough troubles with stretch 4's and dont need 2 slow centers out there at the same time

orton starting for thad

@BucksPR: Bucks starters tonight will be Ridnour, Mayo, Butler, Ilyasova and Pachulia #MILvPHI

...has there been any chatter anywhere about Thad or is this more stealth tanking like the phantom MCW injury?

personal/family reason

anderson 3!

Aaaand we're off...Hawes loses the tip. Hawes is on Ilyasova. Orton on Zaza, who hits a 15-footer.

James Anderson hits a three in early offense on the other end. beauty.

MCW w/ the nice steal. Turnerover on the other end.

Turnerover! #drink

I don't support binge drinking.

MSW to Spence.

mcw to hawes

Anderson fouls Caron on a long two. Stupid, stupid fucking play.

mcw to hawes again

MCW abusing Mayo off the dribble, gets Spence an easy one.

bad shot et

orton puts it back in

Turner terrible shot, misses. Orton grabs the o-board, puts it in and fouled! Good work. Malik was just saying the Bucks are terrible on the defensive glass.

sissy foul

mcw 3

Butler laughs at Turner's "i'm swiping my hand at you" defense, scores at the hoop.

MCW for three.

et loses butler who hits a 3

Turner leaves his man to double Ridnour 18 feet from the hoop. His man promptly gets the pass and hits a three.

Anderson to the hoop.


eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:19

Wonder is Turner freelancing with these senseless doubles sometimes or being instructed to do that?

No coach in the world would tell a guy to leave a shooter to double team Luke Ridnour 18 feet from the hoop. That's just terrible instincts in a terrible defender.

I just spent 5 hours in an "Organic Certification Inspection" Glad to see the funnies to lighten my mood - thaks

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:20

Evan Turner dunk!

I read that as evan turner drunk :)

Turner w/ a dunk. Lucky he wasn't called for pushing off.

bad mcw shot goes in

Turner airballs a layup. Awesome.

one on 3 turnerover!

hawes to wroten

I believe that was a long two Turner just bricked with 21 left on the shot clock, though I think he was trying to brick a three.

we'll have to agree to disagree, it's your blog!

Nope, they called it a three-point attempt. Thought his toe was on the line.

long 3 clank by 12, man this game is hard to keep up with when you actually keep track of everything he does poorly, aka the AI9 treatment

DVR's were invented just for such a situation

Surprised they didn't start Henson.

nice cut by thompson

Nice find by Wroten, Thompson finishes.

I wonder if a less credentialed lineup has ever played in the nba.

Which team? They're both pretty sad right now.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 19:34

Oh, us. Henson and Udoh were lottery picks, Henson deservingly so.

Lavoy was ranked as the worst guy in the NBA one summer. That should count for something.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 19:37

And Williams has played 149 minutes in his 3-year nba career. To be fair, he missed 2.5 of those seasons to injury.

"half step late" is like Lavoy's middle name.

good work on the o-boards leads to more ft

Is that ginger any good?

heh. no.

bad pass by worten

up 8 end of the 1st

28-20 after one.

Finish the Q on a decent run to stretch the lead.


eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:38

Mammoth JAM! Hollis!

Wow, nice oop. didn't think he had any prayer of getting up that high.

thompson long 2

Did he have a foot on the line? Ugh.

Hollis w/ a three! They should start this guy instead of Turner.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:40

Pullup Elliot Williams J.

lavoy jumper

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:41

Hollis d-board.

Lavoy jumper, he pains me.

Lavoy long two. Yippee

Yippee again

oh lavoy missing a 3

Lavoy tries a three on the move. Heh.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:42

I was kind of happy when we selected Wolters that night, short lived as it was.

Hollis w/ another foot on the line.

Wolters is 2/18 from three on the season.

lavoy needs to roll more

eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 22 at 19:45

I'd prefer he sit more.

Starters back in, except Turner.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:46

Orton with the Sammy hands, out of bounds.

wasn't this Wolters guy one of the trades down to hold onto Kazemi and pick up all of those picks?

Turner back.

orton block!

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:48

Orton with the weak-side!!

ORTON nice

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:48

Orton reach-around steal in the post!!!


eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:50

8/9 this quarter.

MCW. now 9/10

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:51

Orton made that block look so easy, he should put forth that effort more often and yield the positive results.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:53

MCW tries to thrown down one, comes up short.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:54

Need to see a replay of that one on Evan, they didn't show one.

t on hawes

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:55

Spencer offensive foul, now a damn tech! Come on man...

so can we dump 00 and just give Orton his minutes...like at halftime maybe?

getting chippy

things are gonna get called tight for a little bit

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:56

ET oop to ..... who? .... Spencer!!!! heh

Turner w/ the oop to Hawes after the baseball pass from MCW. Nice. Needed that hoop.

And Turner late on the rotation, which is so out of character.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 19:57

*on a 3

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:57

Hawes is a man possessed, calm that man down.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 19:59

Sixers with the triple-team post D. Good job. Who did Ilyasova steal that from?

Turner stripped and just stops playing while the play continues. 14-2 run now (basically since someone came off he Sixers bench).

nice play for a hawes layup

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:00

Bucks are on a 14-2 run and we're still up 4. 6 now.

Delay of game on Spencer, he's possessed I'm telling you.

The only time Turner hustles is when he thinks he might be able to cherry pick a hoop.

Like that. He was cherry picking after being about 5 seconds late on a rotation to a wide-open three point shooter.

blew the rotation and just kept running

et leak outs and gets the dunk

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:01

MCW likes to question and show visible frustration with certain ref calls. He needs to chill with that.

MCW leaves Ridnour in the three to help on a weak ass drive. This is just tough to watch.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:04

MCW charge. They blew a sizable lead quick, mostly from frustration and laziness.

Don't see how that's a charge. MCW is lucky he didn't get a tech.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:05

How do you not give the foul? Damn

butler 3 at the buzzer

up 2 at the half

55-53 at the half.

They couldn't give the foul, then just left Butler wide open for a three at the buzzer.

MIL is a really good three-point shooting team, they're going to hit more than 4/14 in the second half. If I was a betting man right now, this is a loss.

43-31 when Turner came in at the 7:07 mark. 22-12 run for MIL thereafter. #StartHollis

stonedeightytoo reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 21:44

hollis seals it #StartHollis

Turner hits a dumb shot to start the third.

nice layup by anderson

delay of game again

4 on Orton.

woah apparently they have announced that the black friday pelicans game will be a dollar dog night...who's in??

Is that four on Hawes, too?

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:25

We're mauling them on the glass, yet we're only up 3.

Brown yelling at Turner after he offers zero resistance against Caron, then walks back down the floor.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:27

Spencer with a bitchy-like pass to Lavoy that goes out of bounds.

et jumper

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:28

Evan with a jab step, J.

Turner hits. 8 on 8 shots for him now.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:29

Carter-Williams is a friggin' ballhawk.

et to the line

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:30

MCW with a down-low strip in the post!!! Man he's stealth with it.

Turner to the line, cherry picking again.

MCW w/ another steal. That kid has really great hands.

Turner splits 'em. Hawes goes for the o-board, falls on his ass, grabs the board from his ass and calls the timeout. Wow.

Turner airballs another layup, jogs back, MIL scores.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:33

It was mentioned above, but Brown will certainly not hesitate to yell and instruct or correct his guys rather loudly. A couple of them spar back with him though.

Not too sure about that. Maybe that's his style.

As long as he isn't too mean to Evan. I'm sure Brown's abrasive style will be blamed for Turner's return to his career averages.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 20:35

Probably, no, very likely.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:34

That mug did nearly airball that layup. Only Turner man, only Turner.

Turner brick in the lane, token defense on the other end, his man scores.

sissy foul line jumper

woah nice board by Hollis

foot on a line again!

Hollis w/ another foot-on-the-liner, boo.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:36

Hollis would have liked playing for Doug, another long 2.

He's about 2.5 inches away from 3 more points on those three jumpers.

henson's arms are so long

Turner gets a very generous whistle there. Hit 'em both.

Good job. Now how 'bout some D?

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:41

Bench has to at least hold here. Up 3.

Brick, Wroten.

Ah, Wroten. you might be the worst 3pt shooter I've ever seen.

Triple-double watch! @MCW1 w/ 11 PTS, 9 AST, 7 REB w/ 5:05 left in Q3. Oh, and he's got 5 steals! - @Sixers

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:42

Is that not more than the 5th shot clock violation we've created this year? Has to be. No more than 5...

Thompson again!!!!!!!!!! oh nope...................

wroten to the locker room

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:43

Wroten limping to the back.

Lo Brown in.

Lorenzo w/ a Turner-esque finish (0.4 inches of air)

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 20:45

*Williams was the finisher

Yep, my bad.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:44

Zo to Williams up-ahead. Sixers baby!

be nice to have Morris right now. If Wroten's hurt, they don't have a backup pg.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 20:47

Lo Brown. Welcome to the '13-'14 Sixers. Let's Build Together. Or whatever it is they now say.

75-73 after three.

How many charges have the Sixers committed?

up 2 end of the 3rd

is it a bias or do the rotations look better when turner isnt on the floor?

eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 22 at 20:49

It's def not a bias, but it'll sure be accused as one.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:50

Good awareness by Lorenzo, but it was to no avail. Hollis messed that up.

Bucks up three. Ballgame?

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:51

Lavoy looks weaker than Spencer trying to go up. Fouled.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:52

Orton in for Lavoy. Yes.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:52

Anderson with the hard finish.

what was that hawes

Hawes behind the back to the MIL bench. 22 turnovers, probably not a winning formula.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:53

Spencer passes it behind his back to no one out of bounds, it looked like.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:54

Elliot Williams with a hard take, comes up short.

i think its williams who keeps losing neal through screens

Turner to the line.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:55

Spencer with the slowest damn pass.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:58

Orton doesn't elevate as needed, fouled on a dunk attempt.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 20:59

Evan gets bombarded by Orton on a weird play. lol

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:00

Evan almost gets a steal, actually hustling.

Spencer drop-off, Orton doesn't elevate again, Henson swats it.

hawes missed the swing pass

had anderson wide open for 3

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:02

Evan gets a call.

Daniel Orton = Rick Mahorn

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:03

Another shot cock violation caused. Good.

bad shot evan

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:03

Turner, clank. Get's his board back.

Anderson, brick from deep.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:04

Turner with a between the legs, oops turnover. heh

Turner brick. Turnerover. Turner foul. Turner complaining.

They're fucking free, kid.

mcw misses both

clank clank clank is this what getting ping pong balls sounds like?

And Butler abuses Turner.

AND Turnerover, then Turner commits the foul.

Turner is a one man tanking machine.

Spence w/ an important follow. Good adjustment by MCW to avoid the charge they've been running into all night.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:11

is it Turner the Tanker


Tank you Turner

Did they really foul Butler on a three?

Turner scores! Yay!

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:14

They done gave this game away, I'm not mad. This cancels out the WAS win.

mcw splits them

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:16

What was the other game this week that competes with this one that Turner was in straight tank mode? TOR?


Dallas he gave the game away in the 4th. TOR he was just putrid throughout.

Yeah, don't guard him, Turner.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:17

Anderson 3. Down to 7. One stop??

sissy 3!

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:18

Got the stop. Just go for two here. Enough time left.

Fuck it!!!!!!!!!! Hawessssss 33333333333


woah well it's not over yet

Ah, Lavoy.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:19

Give me a fucking break, Lavoy throws it to the guy in the front row!!!!! shit

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:20

Bucks turnover, travel on Caron!!! yes

Caron walks! What defense by Turner, what defense!

sissy 3!



eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:21

Hawes pulls the trigger again! Bam!!!!!!!!! 33333333

Fuck, caron 3. man f me ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And whose man ices the game?

Eh, that's one of the few I can't blame on Turner.

Can't believe they didn't foul. Best-case, they get the ball back with like 3 seconds left down 1. Should've fouled.

i think the idea was to trap and force a turnover just mcw kept trying to flop and it messed things up

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:22

What a roller coaster here.....

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:23

What a bummer that shot fell for Butler. man

Turner inches above the mendoza line in TS. His man has 37 on 21 shots.

MCW fouls out

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:26

Bucks miss the free throw...

Can we tie or win this?

Obamasquad reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:30

Yes we can.

draw it up for 00?

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:27

Caron on Spencer.


of course that goes in


no mcw for overtime means more turner

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:28

Gary Neal #12 switches onto Hawes....

He hits the 333333333333333!!!!!!!!!!!! heh

102-102 after 4.

No MCW for overtime. Just keep giving the ball to Hawes.

aaaand Spence wins the tap. He can't be stopped!

Turner to the cup, finishes. Up 2.

nice play for a et layup

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:30

ET with the layup. Got the lead. Let's go.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:31

ET w/ the J!!!! Hey hey....

Turner garbage shot after 3 moves to lose pachulia...and it drops!!!

bad shot evan

That's ballgame, folks. MIL has folded (unless Turner starts heaving up bricks).

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:32

Turner with the for-sure heat check from him.. heh

Butler fouled with the fake.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:33

Hawes with no legs on this one, short from straight on.

Turner in the lane.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:33

Evan gets deep, deposits. 25 for him.

Spiller is firing up his AOL account so he can come brag about Turner's huge night. I can feel it.

Stan reply to Brian on Nov 22 at 23:05

I like how both of you guys are polar opposites on the Turner issue but equally annoying.

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:34

What. a. fucking. pass. from. Lavoy? to Spence.

bad et shot goes in

Shit jumper for Turner, drops to seal it!

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:37

ET with the clinching J dare I say????

23 of ET's 27 since halftime.


eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:40

Oops, ET is loose with the ball, turnover on I don't know what.

Still up 5.


he will after the turner trades happens

No one's trading for that scrub.

115-107 FINAL.

Spence is POTG, with an honorary mention for Hollis.

ahhh what a hawesome win

eddies' heady's on Nov 22 at 21:48

Seriously, Spencer was HAWESOME! He was a man possessed early and throughout, kudos my man. Much respect.

He has such comfortable feel from that extended range rather quickly. It's evident when he pulls them, he's very relaxed while he's letting them fly.

How about ET in OT? Hey hey! 8 for the kid.

brooklyn is a mess, down 32 at the end of the 3rd to the t'wolves

spencer should be hired on Nov 22 at 23:08

Resign the big fella and put him next to Noel!!

been following this blog for a long time, rarely post, but i have to say that the hatred the blog's creator has for turner borders on pathological. if one was so inclined, it would be interesting to analysize the percentage of posts brian makes about turner, the percentage that are negative in general, and the percentage that are negative on plays that turner actually makes a play. turner almost single handedly won the game in OT and every single post by brian about turner in OT. every single one with the exception of "turner in the lane." its insane.

its a shame, otherwise clearly best place on internet to discuss the sixers, but the turner obsession is frankly creepy and offputting (much like the never ending dick sucking of iggy by said blog creator).

6ers reply to f4f on Nov 23 at 0:20

For real. +1.

+2. "Creepy" is the best way to describe his obsession with bashing Turner. I thought Brian wanted to have Iguodala's baby for a minute.

* every single post about turner in OT was negative, meant to say.

Hawes is on fire this season. Wonder if he can keep this up (with a slightly worse three point shooting) beyond this year. With his three point shooting he could really be an interesting piece on a lot of teams in the modern NBA.

spencer should be hired reply to Xsago on Nov 23 at 8:29

At what point [20 to 25 games?] do we say "this is what Spence is" and realize he may be a piece to keep? Does Thad being moved raise the chance they resign Hawes.

`Noel's future is not written in stone as far as injuries and level of player he will be. If he isn't more than a T.Ratliff type offensive player than this c
ombo may work.

Watching Spence and Orton together reminded me of the Gminski/Mahorn tandem, now if we can only find our Barkley.

A season and a half? It's difficult to trust a player in a contract year.

Anyway, with Hawes, it's less about his ability and more about his contract. If he were to resign for a bargain, than the Sixers should definitely consider keeping him. But he won't, which is why he is virtually guaranteed to get traded to a contender before hitting free agency.

P.S Randle reminds me a little of Barkley.

He should be traded now while his value is high - it won't get higher...he's a valuable asset - always has been this season in my mind - his play just elevates his value...

Marc Gasol going down in Memphis creates another team in need of a bigman.

It seems to me that lately every season the NBA landscape is heavily influenced by injuries. Just yesterday:

- Rose with another knee injury. Looked really bad.
- M.Gasol with a knee injury. Didn't look good either
- Iguodala with a hamstring injury, possible tear.

And we've already had Chandler out for extended period of time, Rondo and Gallinari are out since last year, the Nets and the Bucks have half their teams injured...

I figured before the season began that the Western conference playoff teams will be determined by injuries. Memphis looks to be in trouble now. GSW can probably survive without Iguodala for a while. As for Chicago, they are in major trouble.

This also creates opportunities for other teams to capitalize if they are looking to build for the future.

Interestingly - even though the sixers beat them last night - Herb Kohl isn't a fan of tanking - so he may be motivated to make some moves to try and get that 'coveted' and 'so important' eighth seed

turner: 8-12 in the 4th/OT.

you would have thought he'd shot 1-12 and molested a child reading the blog creator's posts.

You're right - the first 3 quarters don't count at all

Maybe if he had played that way earlier a miracle 3 wouldn't have been needed from the kitten killer to save the game.

What's fascinating is that the turner 'fans' are just as 'single minded' as they claim Brian is.

17 minutes of one game truly off sets the entirety of his career right?

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 12:12

"What's fascinating is that the turner 'fans' are just as 'single minded' as they claim Brian is."

Ah, no. You are quite wrong (except for Spiller, of course), but like a tea partier you assume that those who don't have the same beliefs are every bit as pathologically fanatical. Personally, I don't think you are as pathologically fanatical as Brian. You're just used to having your head so far up his butt that you can't escape that natural reflex to mimic.

I keep wondering if either or both of you will manage to embarrass yourselves one day, but apparently you are two individuals with uniquely high embarrassment thresholds.

You are a pretty tiresome fellow aren't you - you exist just to criticize whatever I say (and understand nothing about what is wrong with the tea party lunatics)

Evan Turner is a terrible NBA player, he's proven it for years now - and a few games doesn't change his overall career performance - and selective anlysis of good moments in games doesn't change that either.

He's done nothing so far this year that would cause a rational person to alter their view of his first few SEASONS in the NBA...volume shooting to score points is not a good thing - I thought most intelligent people had acknowledged that.

Poor shot selection
Lack of effort on the defensive end
Too many turnovers
Letting his own petty 'give me a foul' crying get in the way of playing basketball for his team
being yelled at by his coach while the game is being played for poor defensive effort and play

Which one of those is the trait of a good basketball player?

Stan reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 12:18

Are there really "Turner fans"? I think most people don't expect him to be back next year. This team is pretty shitty from top to bottom. I don't understand why Turner is being singled out. If this was 2 or 3 years ago and they were fighting for playoff seeding I could understand why there would be frustrations with Turner.


well, who else is playing as terrible as their expectations? Spencer has been playing way above his career - Coach Brown seems to be a gift to Spencer Hawes...I don't know that Thad has been playing badly but when he's playing I'm not really noticing what he's doing...MCW is a rookie, and everyone else is pretty much a cast off or an 'RLP' (Replacement Level Player) with no expectations.

Turner is the one that was supposedly going to blossom now that Iguodala and jrue were finally gone - he was the one himself talking about how he was going to be the man now - and in his attempts to be the man he only demonstrates his inability to be the man, to play with a team, to give forth a team effort and play for the team and let his ego go - he doesn't have the talent or ability to be the center of a team.

Plus - if one wanted to psychologically analyze it - maybe the fact that a guy like Cousins is finally playing 'better' makes the wasted pick of Turner suck even more?:)

I personally don't care either way honestly - Turner is terrible - has been for a few years - I was hoping he'd play well this year to increase his trade value - in fact I believed that Turner would put up some gaudy point numbers to entice someone to think he's that spark they need off the bench and it seems the guy really increasing his trade value is Spencer Hawes (and man I want him off the sixers)

I think maybe they aren't turner fans there are just little trolls who like to come here and pick fights about the Turner thing - somehow their over bearing irrational opinions are more 'acceptable' than those who notice that as a whole - looking at everything - every game - evan turner is at best a league average nba player who needs to learn his role and what he sucks at

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:02

Doth protest too much (9 paragraphs, more or less). Seems like I hit a nerve. And you call me "tiresome."

Stan is correct. There is no reason to keep singling out Turner ad nauseam. Only a person who has lost control of his mental faculties could have the honestly held belief that he is singlehandedly the reason why this team is the worst defensive team in the league. As far as how he is playing, for the first 14 games he has been one of the better players on a bad team, no more and no less. If you expect me to keep hating him for his performances of the last three years, sorry I can't help you. That kind of thinking is for losers and emotional midgets. P.S. I stopped hating Willie Green about six years ago, too.

Hmm...not really sure why willie green came up - he's not relevant - I expect you were one of those who hated Iguodala when he was the best player on the team huh?

14 whole games huh?

how many games has he played BEFORE those 14 - do they not count?

Putting up a lot of points doesn't make you the best player on your team...or even one of the better players on your team if you are scoring inefficiently, playing horrible defense, turning the ball over at a high rate, and ignoring open players to get your own (bad) shot.

I acknowledge that the best offensive player on the sixers this year has been Spencer Hawes even though I'm loathe to say it as gun toting red necks are vile human beings - and Michael Carter Williams has been the best defensive player probably.

And yet again, 'better players' on a team of cast offs, rejects, and league average players, isn't really saying much is it? If you're saying Evan Turner is having a great season compared to the rest of the roster, BFD, the roster is full of mostly, at best, average NBA players...so Evan Turner is playing better than average NBA players - that's good right?

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:20

Nope. Never said he was having a great season. I said "one of the better players on a bad team." Do I need to translate that for you?

As far as "efficiency," he has been modestly efficient this year (so far) as scored by the usual markers. He has taken the most shots on the team and, while some are bad, he has not taken an inordinate amount of shots and he does have the ability to get off more shots than the average player.

Wille Green came up because he was a former perennial target of hatred on this site. Few seemed to notice that he changed his style of play after his first four years or so.

Never hated Iguodala either. Always liked him even if I thought he was a bit overpaid but the Sixers have had a tendency to do that with some of their homegrown stars.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:08

You guys act like they traded away Jrue Holiday and Andre Iguodala to build this team around Evan Turner. The moves Hinkie made this year were designed to make this team worse and to guarantee a high lottery pick. This is Turner's 4th season. It should be pretty much well established right now that he's a disappointment and a bust as the #2 overall pick. He's on the last year of his deal and there are no indications that he'll be here next year. You could argue that what Turner has shown is everything a logical Sixers fan could have wanted. He's built up some trade value. I don't really care for Turner, but the constant criticism has gotten on my nerves.


No one acts in that way whatsoever - no one has ever made that comment or implication - it's yet another fake argument brought up by those who just wanna pick fights over Evan Turner.

Evan Turner is a bad NBA player - he makes countless mistakes in every game - he's terrible - and right now Spencer freaking hawes is out playing him - these are conclusions supportable by actual facts.

He is a bad useless NBA player who is, sadly, not even the worst #2 pick the sixers ever made in the modern era (sean bradley stil sucked more)...but to somehow indicate that he's doing the best of a bad situation is ridiculous - he's playing terrible basketball as a whole...he's a terrible NBA player....period...

No one has indicated that the sixers plan was to build around Turner - but one would have hoped he had a shred of pride and wanted to improve his ALL AROUND game to at least find his way on to a better team and create some trade value - the best thing he could do to help the sixers this year is to play GOOD TEAM basketball on BOTH ENDS of the court so that the sixers could move him and get something of future value for him, the best thing he would have ever done for the sixers

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:20

I think "bad useless . . . terrible" might be an overstatement for a shooting guard who's averaging 21 and 6 on reasonably efficient shooting. He plays terrible defense, he does all sorts of dumb things, he gets his shot blocked a lot, I strongly hope we don't resign him, but our team should probably be 2-10 and he's a huge reason that we're not.

Stan reply to Tray on Nov 23 at 13:50

This is exactly what I wanted to say. I'd also add that Turner isn't the only player that has his terrible moments. This is a roster in which guys like Brandon Davies, James Anderson, Daniel Orton, and Lavoy Allen are playing significant minutes. This is supposed to be a terrible basketball team.

Stan reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:57

Who cares if Evan Turner is getting outplayed by Spencer Hawes? HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ON THIS TEAM NEXT YEAR. I also think it's unfair to say that Turner is playing terrible basketball. He's 12th in the league in scoring and the Sixers are 6-8 when they have no business being that close to .500.

He's 12th in the league in scoring and the

Yes - you're right - the best way to evaluate a guy is PPG (let's ignore the fact that he's making 3 pointers at below 20 percent but averaging over 2 attempts per game) let's ignore the whole concept of a volume shooter getting a lot of points but still hurting his team (you know, like Carmelo Anthony?).

I'm not really sure why whether or not he's part of the future plans (and yet again, no one said he was, no one is that stupid ) has to do with how terribly he is playing this year...he got everything his overly inflated ego wanted - it was supposed to be 'his team' - and he's demonstrated that while he ca score a lot of points (but not efficiently) he can do little else to help - nor can he handle being defended by quality players cause of his lack of athleticism.

It does matter that he's being out played by spencer hawes (and a rookie in certain aspects of the game) because the concept of him being a 'better player' on a team full of cast offs and 2 or 3 maybe even 4 players playing better than him means 'bfd'

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:17

Let's hold off on Cousins playing better. He had a good first 5 or 6 games, but he's fallen way off since (in 3 of his last 5 games, he's shot 36% or worse), and his TS% is now .515. That's actually worse than last year. He's getting to the line at a slightly higher clip than last season, but only slightly, and that's always been a strong part of his game. He was averaging a respectable 2.7 assists a game last season, that's down to 1.5 now. He was a dominant rebounder in his second year, now he averages just under 10 boards a game. His usage is way up (he leads the league in usage) and he hasn't gotten significantly less efficient than he's been in the past; that's nice, I guess. To be honest, I would have to say Turner's been a better player than Cousins this season. Not that he's been very good.

Someday you'll learn to identify humor - I realize when one becomes a lawyer (or a CPA or an actuary) a humorectomy is required - but just like Steve Austin - they can rebuild you

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 13:51

"A guy like Cousins is finally playing 'better.'" hahaha, what a funny joke. I don't know why I didn't get it the first time around.

MCT reply to f4f on Nov 23 at 15:58

It's one of the reasons that there around 5 to 10 people who comment during game threads here anymore. Literally, that's it. I had more people in my living room for last night's game. It's sad because this used to be a good blog to come to for basketball talk. I really do think Brian knows the game as do Derek, tk, and some others who have contributed but it's nothing but the "I Hate Turner" blog now. I don't like defending Evan Turner, I haven't liked him since his rookie season when I was hanging on to my hopes that he would be good.

Not that he'll care but you can count me as one of the former readers. At some point it will probably just be GoSixers and Brian having a douche off with no one else in the room.

Phil reply to MCT on Nov 23 at 16:20

Yep, I have to agree. I came here for almost every game thread 2-3 years ago. Then the Iguodala trade happened and it became a fountain of negativity. Now I just click an article in my RSS reader from time to time, but rarely do I even finish an article because the ranting is so annoying and destructive.

That's not actually what it is, it's just how people choose to see it, people enjoy pointing fingers and ignoring the facts...and complaining about what goes on - in fact - about 25% of the comments on the posts these days are people complaining about the content of the blog...that's kind of ironic I think (but I'm never 100% sure about irony - poorly taught to me)

Irony is:

- a person inside a Starbucks beaming at the mention of Mike Huckabee

- the crime of "knockout" being called a game

- a U.S. President imitating a used car salesman

- a blogmaster being ridiculed or condemned for words

- Southern California rain

- my next pizza going unconsumed

Um ok - thanks

How do you like your pizza?

A truly good pie needs only dough, sauce, cheese & oven. Marra's, for instance.

I miss good pizza, and chesse steaks, and hoagies, the inability to get hard italian rolls easily outside of philly is annoying

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 17:20

Really? Have you noticed that every person who has chimed in about this subject has chosen to "see it that way?"

Interesting - who ever thought any head coach would say this about Spencer Hawes

“He’s surprised me all over the place,” Brown told The Intelligencer on Thursday. “What I see is an extremely versatile player that is a hell of a teammate. He has the ability to pass — look at the backdoor cuts he’s hit our guys on — and the ability to go to the 3-point line and change games like that. "I just think that he’s a really good player that is young. His better days are ahead of him.”

(no mention of defense whatsoever in the quote of course ;)

didn't Doug say last yer that his job is to never tear down a player but try to inflate their value as much as possible?

he might of said that but i dont think he means it(remember when he basically said vucevic was soft?)

Except that did you ever get the impression that Doug was doing that? Never felt like he was inflating a players value.

Thing about Brown's comments (like i said above, I'm loathe to say it) is that most of them seem accurate, he focuses on complimenting his offense without saying a word about his defense cause he knows it would be a lie :)

It's only the impression I get from watching Brown in interviews, like that True Hoop thing he did, is that 'puffing up a player' isn't really in his game.

I really thought going into the season that at least two of Turner, Hawes, and Young would go before February 15th, but I never thought Hawes would be the one with the most perceived value around the league...

I wonder how bad the sixers are going to lose tonight

He absolutely tried to do it with Iguodala.

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 15:56

How bad will they lose? Perhaps a tougher question than it appears. Their record on Saturday night back-to-backs so far is all over the place:

A 107-104 victory over Chicago;
A 125-127 overtime loss to Cleveland;
A 98-135 drubbing by New Orleans.

Sixers haven't played an 11-1 team under these circumstances and no Thad or Wroten tonight.

Indiana also played last night (a 15 point cruise over Boston). Indiana's only loss was on a Saturday night back-to-back.

Out of thin air, I'll say Indiana 99-92.

THink they'll lose by at least 10 - double digit loss - david west has a field day

Tray reply to buke on Nov 23 at 16:57

If I were an oddsmaker I think i'd say indiana by 12 just to set a safe line, but my prediction is a 16-point loss.

Let's say Spencer Hawes continues his improved offensive play and doesn't get any worse defensively.

Can Spencer Hawes play a type of '4' in todays NBA and be on the same court with a defensive specialist / dunking type center like a Nerlens Noel?

Following up - seems that Tom Moore asked Coach Brown this question recently - but only via twitter

#Sixers Brett Brown today: 'Could those two (Hawes and Noel) play next to each other? Yes they could.' #76ers

The Sixers actually post videos of these interviews/quotes on their site. Much faster than reading all those articles.

http://www.nba.com/sixers/video/archive/#Press Pass

Here's the interview with that quote. He said some interesting things about Hawes and Noel. It's the practice interview from the 21st of November.

And yeah, the best thing about the video is Noel hitting one handed free throws one after another in the background :)

Obviously they can, you answer your first part of your question with the second part. Dirk has done it for years although Spence will never be in the same category, but he shows some resemblance.

Basketball is simple as long as you keep the balance. MCW-Turner-"star/superstar"-Hawes-Noel would be an extremely dangerous line-up with someone like Paul George or Kawhi Leonard.

How bad is his defense going to be against 4's? While he's offense has improved he's still not all that athletic, or 'strong' for a guy his size...4's are either going to be more athletic or stronger than him and have their way with him...not sure how much Noel can compensate for that...I'm not sure it is going to be a relevant question because I still don't believe he's here past the 15th of February.

3 more weeks until things start happening trade wise

Well, it all depends on how good Noel actually is. In defence I would put Noel on a 4 and Hawes on a 5 though. I love big line-ups, could be fun with MCW. This roster is still extremely incomplete and I can't wait what Hinkie has up his sleeve. I really love what he and Brown are doing: maximizing trade value and giving prospects a lot of playtime.

Depending on the four that team has - your killing your best defensive rebounding asset by pulling him away from the basket - purely going on my weak ass memory - aren't there more fours playing away from the basket these days - guys who could take advantage of Hawes lateral slowness - but you need Noel underneath because of his shot blocking and rebounding ability?

Speaking of Evan Turner, I love seeing Freddie Carter point his index finger at the camera in his traditional smiling TV send-off. Irrepressible spunk shown from the MVP of the worst-ever NBA team; also the pride of Ben Franklin HS Electrons, along with Jerome "Pooh" Richardson, Paul "Snoop" Graham, Randy Woods and John Chaney.

I was saddened when I heard that "Electrons" team name. When I lived in Philly they were known as the "Poor Richards."

Yeah - too easy to call them the poor dicks though :)

Electrons, Poor Richards ... "don't think to hunt two hares with one dog" or "onions can make, even Heirs and Widows weep."


Correct. You move on to the next round - William Penn, Stephen Girard, Richardson Dilworth or Frank X. Feller?

Meh - the fiance is the history buff - only ever heard of Penn and she's never heard of the other 3

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:27

I believe Dilworth was a very important mayor of our city in the 50s. Girard is the guy Girard College is named after, but I don't know what he did.

buke reply to Tray on Nov 23 at 18:43

Well, I guess #1 was that he had lots of money.

Yes, Richardson Dillworth defeated Thacher Longstreth for mayor. They were the last of the old gentry to be players in Philly mayoral races. Afterwards, Dillworth challenged another famed PA blue blood, William Scranton, for governor but lost.

Completely off topic but maybe you'll have - have you seen that documentary about the MOVE thing that has been released?

... And the former Girard Bank (now Mellon). And Girard Ave. French born, merchant/banker became one of wealthiest Americans EVER. His will helped others for a long time, especially orphans. A Philadelphia doer of great deeds, perpetual standing. Unfortunately, the longstanding private school that bears his name is now contracting, under duress due to apparent mismanagement.

Dilworth, politico of 50s & 60s - D.A., Mayor, Gubernatorial candidate (2X). Tall man about town for a time.

Frank X. Feller - member of "WIBG" DJ line-up in 60s, along with Hy Lit and Joe 'the Rockin' Bird' Niagara. "Wibbage," "WFIL," "WDAS" were the happenin' local stations when pop songs mattered.

Hey - I just got to see Tom Baker on television again - none of you can ruin this day

man oh man can't wait until the circular firing squad gets into full gear after the first 10 game losing streak drags on...and on...and on...

Rose tore his right meniscus will need surgery

And (possibly) more relevant to the sixers, Marc Gasol sprained knee, out indefinitely. 3 weeks until the 15th

they care too much about defense to trade for him

They need a 'big man' who can put up points too - maybe they won't notice how he gets them :)

I still think Asik/Hawes/Orlando is the best for all involved

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:05

Do you think John Hollinger is a Hawes guy? I'm not suggesting he necessarily isn't, just a question.

I think Hollinger is in love with his own number (PER) and that Spencer Hawes has a PER close to 21, a TS% of 63.1 and believe it or not his usage right now is pretty much the same as the past two years - and right now is the 8th ranked center by the 'hollinger rankings' at ESPN (Gasol is 9th) with a better rebounding rate - on both ends of the floor, currently he and Gasol have been basically 'equivalent' in terms of value/wins added this year. insider link

I think the grizzlies want to contend this year, I think they believe they can make the finals, Hawes can possibly 'hold the fort' while Gasol is out but also strengthen your bench when he returns, and you owe him nothing after this season...he's kind of a perfect trade asset in a league were big men are at a premium...however memphis does not have the ability to give the sixers their 2014 draft pick cause cleveland has claim on the 2015 draft pick.

Hell Memphis even has a trade exception (from Rudy Gay) that Spencer Hawes slides neatly into.

They just don't really have anything to offer :)

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:24

They have Ed Davis.

1. Hollinger is not the only decision maker in Memphis (and he definitely doesn't make trades just based on PER). Every GM in the league that truly values advanced analytics looks at all kinds of stuff, not just one stat. Not to mention that these "all in one" stats are not really what these guys are looking for in players.

2. The Grizzlies have Koufos to hold the forst before Gasol comes back. There's zero chance they make a trade just because Gasol will be out for a while. They are not the Knicks.

Tray reply to Xsago on Nov 23 at 18:30

Lowe is always saying what an underrated player Koufos is. Like a lot of people, I don't really sit down to watch a game to see how a flashless backup center plays defense, but I trust Lowe's judgment.

Gee - if only I already knew everything in point 1 - oh right - I already did

As for point 2 - Ed Davis and Kostas Koufos have not been as good as Hawes this year - in limited time - and again - the Grizz feel that they're contenders this year - and if the season ended today they wouldn't even make the playoffs - never know what a team with high expectations from an unrealistic owner might do.

And the fact that they could get Hawes and not have to give up any players might appeal to them - they wouldn't even have to cut anyone - only have 13 players under contract

I'm perfectly aware that Hollingers stats are utter bollox and the fact that they seem to have somehow gotten him a job would indicate to me that Memphis' understanding of analytics before they hired hollinger was poor, or they wouldnt' have hired him in the first place, the fact that he is still employed to me would indicate they haven't hired anyone smarter since...so let's not lend intelligence to a team that hired John Hollinger.

If they had something Hinkie wanted, the grizz have nothing to lose (except some more money) by trading for Hawes...and then you let him go by the end of the year...hell - trade for him now - in 60 days you can trade him again if gasol davis and koufos prove a better trio than gasol / hawes and davis or koufos

It's a pretty low risk move for Memphis if you think about it - the hollinger stuff was just having fun - but Marc Gasol hasn't been all that 'great' this year nor has he been all that better than Hawes

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:37

I think Hollinger is a smart guy and you shouldn't confuse the sum total of his knowledge and understanding with one proprietary ESPN stat he's famous for, and that he developed when advanced basketball stats were in their infancy. So far, the team has done very sharp things in his time with them, like the Gay trade - which, by the way, doesn't make sense in terms of PER, but does in terms of legit advanced stats, which in turn suggests he or at least the front office is not guided by PER.

I think you shouldn't presume that my dislike of hollinger is based on one statistic (though it's one he created - and pimped like it was a 2 dollar whore even though it's thoroughly flawed) either...my disbelief in Hollinger's capabilities to be helpful to an NBA team go well beyond PER - but whatever...the point - Spencer Hawes has been very good this year - he's been just as good in toto as Marc Gasol - memphis isn't very good defensively anyway - and if Hawes could maintain his current play level he's a better bench option than Koufos and Ed Davis when Gasol returns and Memphis could obtain him with the right combination of assets and not have to give up a single player...if Memphis somehow misses the playoffs, after the money their owner has been ponying up - that GM that thought they didn't need Lionel Hollins might be looking for a new job...

Any team that 'believes' in Koufos or Ed Davis is going to 'believe' in Spencer Hawes

buke reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:47

How about the Sixers obtain Ed Davis instead and keep Hawes? Davis is a free agent this summer and probably could be had for 3 or 4 million per year.

Meh - the off season is a long way away - I still don't believe Hawes will be here past Feb 15

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 18:55

"Any team that 'believes' in Koufos or Ed Davis is going to 'believe' in Spencer Hawes"

Some teams are always going to prefer big men who can defend the pick and roll to big men who can pop out behind the three-point line and do ball-friendly stuff, even if you're comparing a sort of mediocre meat and potatoes defensive big to someone like Hawes or David Lee.

I think you are missing the point. There is nothing that suggests the Grizzlies want to improve their front court rotation short term.

Marc Gasol sprained his knee last night

There's nothing to indicate that they dont' want to improve their bench depth either - unless you can psychically determine what's going on in the Grizzlies front office.

jesus - from now on i'll use special 'hypothetical' tags so you don't get confused

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 19:11

Yeah but I think he's saying that they have a pretty good backup center and aren't in desperate need of someone to fill in for a while, and that they really aren't going to burn one of their few trade chips for a tiny incremental benefit in playoff seeding when they have some serious needs that those trade chips could help them address.

EVERY trade suggestion made on a blog is purely hypothetical based on no inside information or knowledge of what a team is thinking
I thought that was rather obvious

And oh yeah - Memphis is poor defensively this year anyway

********INDY GAME*************

On my way home. Should be here by end of Q1.

no hawes tonight, lavoy starting for him

left knee soreness

Poppy cock - trade talks trade talk trade talks - the 3 pointer is the peak of his value :)

eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 23 at 18:35

Was it last night where he banged it? Or Wed?

Any word on Thad tonight?

still not with the team

Getting worrisome

Cousins had a very Cousins game today - 23, 19 boards (16 defensive) and 7 assists. Never been done before by a younger player since they've kept box score stats, and it's only been done by nine other players period. But, he scored those 23 on 22 shots and 6 FTA, had a few turnovers, committed 5 fouls (though the players he fouled only went 2-7 from the line), and his man, DeAndre Jordan, scored 17 on perfect shooting from the field.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 18:38

This sounds crazy to me to say, but without Hawes this game will be pretty darn close to unwatchable. Should be rather putrid.

It's been a pretty crazy season so far - just enjoy the (crazy) train ride

Looking for a free alternative to tonights Sixers (possible) debace - Houston Minnesota is on NBA TV (or baylor oklahoma state is going to be fun)

if you want to get really mad, watch hibbert on d and count how long hes in the paint for

Based on everything that's gone on this year - I wouldn't be surprised if the sixers lost this game by 20+ or if they won in a shocker at the buzzer with some scrap heap player dropping 30

good play for a anderson 3

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 19:11

Anderson catch and shoot 3!

Iguodala out indefinitely - strained left hammy

Minnesota Houston game just got less interesting - Harden out

orton and 1

MCW and 1

missed the ft but sixers ball

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 19:17

Only 9 healthy players tonight.

evan and 1?

The sixers NBDL team plays their first game tonight - streaming on youtube - never seen something like that before

yea youtube streams alot of the d-league games

Interesting - I wonder who pays who for that...(I'm always curious how internet companies make money beyond the standard advertising model cause that's not a sustainable model)

2 on lavoy

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 19:24

Elliot 3!

davies o-rebound to williams for a 3

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 19:25

Turner tries to dribble through 2 defenders, George swipes it.

You have to say good things about evan turner or you're feeding the irrational hatred towards evan turner

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Nov 23 at 19:29

Fuck Turner, he's lazy garbage.

Now you're just being mean and spiteful and making it hard for people to read this blog with all the turner hatred HE HAS SEVEN POINTS

et basket

sixers very small

Thompson or turner at the 4