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Hanging In There In Indy

So apparently Indy has been a huge second half team this year. Shouldn't be too hard for them to make adjustments to clean up the D-boards, and defensively, they can really sag into the lane. I'll be surprised if they're within 10 at the end of the third, but maybe their hustle can keep them in it.

With West and Hibbert and the players the sixers are missing, 21/34 is pathetic for the Pacers.

Orton's been playing the o glass like a man possessed. Doubt he can keep that up.

I've been impressed w/ Orton. Remember being very skeptical when he came out and he was really climbing the draft boards, but he's at least a serviceable big man.

Yes! And huge kudos to Hinkie for picking up so many serviceable castoffs on the cheap.

SixersRising on Nov 23 at 20:25

Heard Hawes, Thad and Wroten all out and assumed they couldn't be competitive. Maybe Pcers did too. They are representing really well - fun to watch this team compete.

The beautiful thing about Philadelphia and the Philadelphia state of mind is the joy we take in complaining and negativity when we approach it with a sense of humor.

Keep up the good work, all!

Down 8. Need to get going a little bit here.

bad shot evan goes in

Turner long two from the baseline drops.

Turnerover. Complains, doesn't bother running back on D.

High-low on Hibbert. Don't see the extra freebie on a made freebie very often. Hibbert misses it.

lavoy o-board

anderson floater

Big one-handed o-board by Lavoy. Anderson finally hits his second shot. 14 o-boards.

Bricked three.

OK, get a hoop here. It was off Anderson, he kicked it out of bounds.

Bad shot doesn't fall for Turner.

et putback

Nice follow by Turner. Nice job pushing the ball. 4-point game.

Anderson has to hit those.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:37

Anderson bricks a 3.

nice steal by MCW

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:37

MCW with a poke-around steal. And soft dunk the other way.

MCW with the steal and the slam. After Hill pushed off him. Nice.

8 assists on 22 made FGs. Don't like that ratio one bit.

Anderson ice cold tonight.

MCW hits a leaner over Hibbert. Tough shot.

mcw one legged floater?

mcw turnover, mcw steal.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:41

Bad contested Elliott 3, not sure where the shot clock was on that one.

wait what hibbert was a 17th pick?? but isn't the groupthink consensus that you HAVE to get a top lottery pick to ever get anybody decent?

was really out of shape/bad conditioning

Gosixers reply to das411 on Nov 23 at 20:45

If only draft context was taken into account by your needless sarcasm

Hubert has out played his projections. If people Had known he was going to be this good he would have gone higher in the draft

It's kind of like pointing at the pistons saying you don't need a superstar to win a title just because on e team did it.

No one has ever evaluated the draft perfectly.

wow, terrible play by George Hill there. Turns down a wide-open three and goes up-and-down.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 20:43

Didn't think his left toe ever left the floor, still was hard to tell on the replay.

Missed it, was that a drive for the turner dunk, or a pass?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 20:46

missed it too



et push off foul

Orton just needs to take his time when Scola's guarding him. That guy might be the worst defensive 4 I've ever seen. Down 9 all of a sudden.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:47

Hill posterized ET. heh

Need to settle and cut into this lead a little by the end of the quarter.

orton over scola

There you go, Orton. That's free money.

bad shot anderson

Bleh. Anderson is ice cold.

down 11 end of the 3rd

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:50

Does anyone know how much Lorenzo and Elliot are signed for? Is there a rookie minimum?

$800K, give or take.

66-77 after 3.

Need a strong start to the fourth or Indy is going to cruise.

nice play for anderson

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:54

Zo Brown steal, Elliot follow off Bronw's miss.

Anderson steal and dunk!

6-0 run by the bench brigade! Love it.

down 3!

good start to the 4th

Lorenzo in the paint!

Scola is really a weak spot for Indy. They need a big who can defend a little.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:55

Lo Brown fake, spin, and baby hook!!

SixersRising on Nov 23 at 20:56

Whatever else we've learned about this team, I'm thinking they made a great coaching hire.

eddies' heady's reply to SixersRising on Nov 23 at 20:57

Yep, it's the X-factor likely to impede the popular tank.

Stupid turnover. Same one Turner had earlier, stepping back on the line.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:58

Lavoy block!!

Lavoy with a big block.

thompson and 1!

Hollis+1, and a nice lefty finish. That's impressive.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 20:59

Hollis with a hard attack, finishes with the left scoop, to the line and-one. Missed it, shit.

Lane violation. Take fucking advantage. Can't keep missing freebies.

great work there by everyone

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:00

3, 3 o-boards on that possession and a MCW finish and-one!!!

WOW. So much action there, I don't know where to begin. Began with another MCW steal, ended with MCW+1, a couple o-boards in the middle.


eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:01

They're free man......

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:01

Turner out of control pushoff.

nice flop


He can't handle good defenders. Just can't at all.

Bricked three, o-board. Give it to MCW.

and they do. MCW43!!!!!!

mcw 3!

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:02

ET bricks a 3. O-board off a long bounce.

.....MCW 3333333333333333!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up 2, heh

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:03

This energy and effort level from this shorthanded group is astounding.

really bad shot evan

thompson 3!

Turner can't find the rim on a 12-footer. O-board, Hollis hits a three!!!!

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:04

Evan needs to kill the fucking hero ball.

O-board off the floor, Hollis 33333333333333333333333

damn this hollis dude might actually be decent!

Of course that's a foul. Fucking Hibbert.

Come on, Orton.

orton splits them

I like this zone trap. Especially considering Indy doesn't really have a point guard.


5 on Lavoy. Going super-small?

amazing game.

6-minute game. Let's go.

Bad shot. Brick.

Then he loses Paul George for a corner three on the other end. Great work, Turner.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:09

ET bad pullup. Use your teammates.

3 on other end by George.

MCW to the line. Got bailed out there.

Jeebus, he's 2/6 from the line...now 2/7. Disgusting.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:11

The baseline ref shouldn't have to make that call there on MCW. The other two had a better look at it but swallowed the whistles.

ugh mcw misses both

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:12

Damn, Carter-Williams can't shoot free throws for shit tonight. Iguodala-esque.

Need a run here. Down 8, 5 minutes to go.

Down 7, sorry. Turner misses from 3 (better than a missed long 2, at least)

bad shot evan

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:14

MCW with a brick from deep.

O-board, and a foul.

Terrible Turner shot. Foul on the rebound, stays Sixers ball.

missing hawes right now.

Turner with a feeble attempt at a layup. Maybe stop shooting?

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:15

Man, Turner is playing selfish as hell right now. Use your teammates. geez

foot on the line!

Hollis for three! MCW w/ the o-board and dime.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:16

Hollis 3!!!!!!!!!! off another long o-board

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:17

Hollis steal and the other way!!! Fouled to the line. Please make em.

Love the trapping against this team. Really good coaching move. Gets a steal and a trip to the line that time.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:20

Makes both, Need a stop in the worst way here.

Atta boy, Hollis.

MCW with another steal and he gets fouled. To the line.

mcw nose bleed

put some cotton in there. Makes for a great photo.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:20

They get the stop and a foul sending MCW to the line as he ended up with the steal.

please, please, please hit these MCW.

nice. 6-0 run. Keep up the pressure.

mcw makes both

MCW makes a tough, tough runner in the lane. Get a stop here.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:25

MCW with too much dribbling, but his shot falls.

good d by indy

mcw gets the bucket anyway

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:25

MCW with too much dribbling, but his shot falls.

Turner rejected, believe they'll call it a jump ball. Blocked flat-footed. Shockingly.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:26

Turner with his hero ball dammit. Gets tied up and we lose the jump ball.

MCW to the line again. HIT BOTH!

now now don't anybody actually enjoy this, what this team REALLY needs is more theoretical ping pong balls

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:27

MCW takes over the hero mantle. Fouled on a drive, make these kid

mcw hits both

down 4 need a stop

Need another stop here. Stop and then do not let Evan Turner touch the ball on the other end.

These Indy announcers are idiots. They traded Jrue before they drafted MCW.

brown almost punted the ball!

Turner fucks a chicken out by midcourt for 6 seconds before Brown has to take a timeout to avoid the turnover.

Why run it through Turner? Seriously.

Turner rejected and that'll seal it. Shocking.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:31

Damn Hollis, don't give the fucking ball back to Evan.......

annnndddd Turner gets stuffed by Hibbert. Ballgame


hibbert gets away with so much

OK, someone who was complaining about how negative I've been about Turner please explain to me how I should sum this game up, particularly the 4th quarter.

eddies' heady's on Nov 23 at 21:33

Turner the Tanker

or is it

Tank you Turner

Evanordinary is becoming jealous.

I guess if Turner had played a borderline-okay game we would have somehow won even without our two best players. Then again, maybe all the Orton and Thompson minutes had something to do with the good showing?

lost by 7

98-106 Final.

Turner was 0/8 with a turnover in the fourth. But let's not talk about that.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 21:38

They've all stopped reading right? Yet they cherry-pick a negative comment about the chosen one within a 250+ comment thread?

I believe ET missed his last 9 or 10 shots.

I try to stay out the turner arguments because they are too intense for me, but I want to say that tonight reminded me of a football team that is down and passing on every play. Every time he drove to the basket in the second half he wasn't considering passing, and the Pacers eventually figured that out, if you never pass when you drive, it makes it too easy for the opposing team to stop you.

Doesn't help when you get two inches of air on every layup attempt.

Evan had a 34.5" max vert at the combine. Why does he now appear so earth-bound?

Don't know. Max vert is w/ three steps, and no ball, right? Rarely get that opportunity when driving for a layup.

No step vert was 27.5" which led me to believe he had decent athleticism.

I don't care what measurements read. 4 yrs of watchin' him says he can't jump. Rebounds on instinct, timing, hunger (when hungry).

deft use of hydraulic lift

I hate to say it, but Rose is done. Even before he blew out his knee the first time, how many games did he miss due to injury? Then the blown knee, now this. Body just can't take it.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 21:53

You may be right.

ojr107 reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 21:55

Puts the bulls organization in limbo, looks like is under contract for another 3 seasons. Do they rebuild anyways.

OK, so I just watched SportsCenter, they breezed through the Sixers/Pacers game. Then the "analysis" afterward was "Evan Turner, averaging 21ppg this season, had 21 and 11 tonight, but it wasn't enough to take down the Pacers." This is why I harp on how bad Turner is. 95% of people who follow hoops think Turner had a good game because he scored 21 points. He used 35 possessions tonight (26 shots, 7 free throws, 6 turnovers) to score 21 points and hand out 2 assists. But hey, 21 points! Those are all star numbers!!!

buke reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 22:15

But you don't need to be that messenger. Anyone viewing the game tonight could see that he pretty much stunk (at least in the fourth quarter). Frankly, no casual fans would be checking in here anyway. Turner has had some good games this season, but he appears to be regressing back to his old ways. I was actually a bit ticked at some of his young team mates for passing him the ball late in the game when he looked gassed and had zero lift remaining.

Enough about Turner. With no expectations and a team built to lose, focus on the positives. MCW was fantastic. After some absences and a mini slump, he reclaimed his rookie of the year lead. He had no shortage of lift in the 4th quarter. I liked what I saw from Lorenzo Brown and think, with a little seasoning, he should be a definite improvement over Morris. The entire bench, although lacking in some skills, provided huge energy.

Tray reply to buke on Nov 23 at 22:25

I'm an extremely casual fan, haven't seen a game all year. I read Brian and other Sixers bloggers to find out how things look beyond the box score. I'm also not sure why Brian shouldn't comment on things that his audience is (mostly) already aware of. Should he only talk about stuff that escapes the awareness of people who actually watch the games, like how Brown is defending the pick and roll this season? Most stuff that's worth talking about is going to be stuff that people would already know about if Brian didn't write about it, like MCW's surprising rookie season.

South Broad on Nov 23 at 22:04

102 FG attempts tonight. Wow. When was the last time they came close to that or is that a franchise record?

had 103 in the game vs Houston but that went to OT

did it last year vs the celtics


Milwaukee, who we so pluckily beat, is getting crushed by Charlotte at home. Still below 50 with 2 left in the third.

one-legged gramps Hawes 3 pt-er: pluckily & LUCKily beat

spencer should be hired on Nov 23 at 22:22

We used to talk about building a Pistons type team when Iggy was here, why not emulate the Pacers. We may have the coach in place already and what are the chances M.C.W. can be as good as P.George?

Finding real good players without a top 3 pick is the tough part. Finding the right free agent, on the rise, may be easier. Swapping Evan and the money he would get for an up and comer, L.Stevenson, would be a starting point for me. He seems to be a physical defender who is coming into his own offensively.

We may have our Hibbert in Noel and would have to find good value [D.Blair?] in fittable pieces. A 2nd unit of Noel,Thad,H.Thompson,J.Anderson and Wroten could be fun to watch [till Noel is ready to start].

A starting five of Spence, D.Blair, [draft pick?], Stevenson and M.C.W. could defend at a good level.

Blair isn't a good defender. Would depend on who the 3 is. Is Stevenson a free agent this summer? I hope you aren't suggesting Indy would trade Stevenson for Turner.

spencer should be hired reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 22:32

He is restricted but offer what Indy can't. Blair would seem to compliment Spence and rebounds at a rediculous rate in 24 m.p.g. this year. I would let Evan walk if he can't be moved.

buke reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 22:34

"I hope you aren't suggesting Indy would trade Stevenson for Turner."

No, especially after this game, but Stevenson I believe is a free agent and would be well worth picking up.

Depends what his price tag would be, but I'd like him. They need someone to score at some point. Don't think MCW nor Noel are going to be that guy. Thad will give you what he gives you, same with Spence.

buke reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 22:43

What makes you so pessimistic about MCW? He's 20 years old and look what he's done so far. Jrue, albeit a bit younger, wasn't this good (and certainly not as fearless) as a rookie.

I'm not pessimistic of him as a player. LOVE his defense. Think he has a good head on his shoulders and good vision, and like you said he doesn't shrink from big situations. Don't think he's going to be a legit, reliable scoring threat, though. In his prime, I see his ceiling as maybe a 17/5/10/3(steals) guy who plays awesome defense. In no way is that pessimistic.

buke reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 23:09

Good! Glad to hear that. Maybe the Sixers can succeed with the former Pistons strategy. That also appears to be the Pacers strategy. Have six or seven good to very good players instead of three stars and a remaining roster of filler. And it looks like we both agree that MCW could be an integral part of that strategy.

Why would you want to attempt to emulate an organization that hasn't won since Bob Netolicky and Freddie Lewis?

MCW will not become as good as Paul George.

Coach Brown is strong, impressive - until like majority of them, he weakens. Good hire. Hope he sticks. But losing, especially in Philadelphia, wears.

spencer should be hired reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 23 at 22:48

Games like tonight get me in a good mood. M.C.W. seems to take over the game at times and could be pretty good. I am an impatient person and don't want 3 years of losing.

This coach seems special to me and hearing him yell "Mike" at the top of his lungs reminds me of Billy C. when he used to yell at a certain shooting guard years ago.

The Pacer fans are having a hell of a ride these last few years and I wouldn't mind one too.

I was just pullin' your chain, Spence. I've always respected the Pacers organization. Most years they put a competitive product on the floor. Remember attending a Saturday playoff game here in Iverson early years and they turned the arena into a church, such was their superiority that day. Saw Billy Knight play for Pitt: what a shooter, fine player. And Darnell Hillman's afro was one of the best.

As for Sixers, seems like a neverending puzzle with a couple pieces missing. Still I rubberneck.

Oh man, I remember sitting through some of those playoff games against that Pacers teams. They just rained threes on the Sixers, and Marc Jackson used to back Iverson down in the post like it was his job. At least there were some good playoff memories from those years at the FU Center (Iverson's 10 steal game vs Orlando comes to mind).

Miller, Mullin, Jackson 24-60 from 3 in '99 series; Jackson 43 assists. Sweep. Big disappointment, after Magic series optimism. Needed 2 more years to marinate.

"And Darnell Hillman's afro was one of the best."

Yes, it was. Hillman was also included in one of Daryl Dawkins' best comments after breaking a backboard:

"I saw Issel and Hillman coming to block the shot. I figured they were looking for some broken fingers or broken heads."

Dawkins, Hawkins & Dawkins: name 1 Sixers clown & a decent guard tandem. From Maynard High to Bill Robinzine (who committed suicide at 29) - a big leap, entertainingly executed. DD, less than the sum of his parts.

Hersey was underrated. Take a look at his numbers from '90-91 in particular. Hell of a defender, too. I'd give anything to have taken him w/ the #2 pick four years ago instead of what we got.

This is pretty amazing if you look beyond Turner, or inclusive of him, I guess.

Your starting SG, SF, C and PF combined tonight to shoot 16/59 for 47 points. They scored 15 of those points at the line. 1/15 from three.

Anderson was 4/18 (1/10 from three).

The team was 4/25 from three.

spencer should be hired reply to Brian on Nov 23 at 23:07

Why was Orton let go by the teams he was on? I presumed it was knee issues that were career threatening but if it was a numbers thing, too many bigs, than we may have gotten lucky. He gives us a willing post defender to compliment Spence and eventually Noel.

I believe he also had some medical issues earlier in his career that caused some concern. I agree that we are fortunate to have him. Not only does he look a bit like Rick Mahorn, he might develop into his heir.

Reposting this...MCW has played 11 games and twice put up 22pts, 8st and 6reb games.

Since 1985 only 5 other players had 2 or more games of 22, 8st and 5 reb in their entire careers.

MJ 7 times, Hakeem 3 times and twice by CWebb, Drexler and Pippen. No one else has done it twice in their careers over the past 28 seasons….

And MCW has done it twice in his first 11 games.

Assists aren't what they used to be. If on the promotion list, ya get one now if you're jus' lookin' in the shooter's direction. Like Oscar said, going by standards, he would've had 5 or 6,000 more career assists.

Not buying MCW's numbers yet, they include a lot of garbage (and garbage time minutes). And the overall quality of play so far this year is blinking: S-T-R-E-E-T-B-A-L-L. Let's see him produce regularly in nut-crunch time.

He's actually been better in close games late, imo. Not that it matters for a team that isn't going anywhere. I'm not sold on his offense at all, but his defense has been unbelievable or a rook. He's made some mental mistakes, but his ability to bully guys, and his instincts on dig-downs, etc have been amazing. Pretty sure he'll be a plus, plus defender. Don't know if his offense will be good enough to stay on the floor, time will tell. He's been much better on O than I thought he ever would be. If the jumper improves...who knows.

Yeah, patenting a jumper, or not, will be key. Scrappiness isn't much in question.

well ET in his rookie year had Collins teaching him, Jrue had...that coach previous to Doug whom we try not to mention...while MCW has Brown, just might work out a little better than the other two

correction: going by CURRENT standards

Tray reply to Dollar Bill on Nov 24 at 0:45

But tk76 said nothing about assists. He's talking about points, steals and rebounds. I assume you think those are what they used to be.

South Broad reply to tk76 on Nov 24 at 10:01

Except he's only done it once vs. MIA, he didn't have 8 steals last night, only 7.

I caught that this morning. The 7 steals drops it to something done multiple times by about a dozen players.

BTW, no one has put up MCW's current averages in Pts,stl,asst and reb for a full season since records for steals have been kept in 1973. Magic matched the numbers for one year in'81, but only played 39 games that year. I do doubt MCW can maintain this pace, but regardless he will end up with a remarkable stat line this year. He will need to improve on his efficiency though.

Aldridge had 30, 21 (15 defensive), 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks tonight. Barkley's the only other player who's ever done that. Yet he got those 30 points on 7-21 shooting, plus 19 trips to the line. Is Aldrige, in a sneaky way, the league's biggest underachiever? He seems to have immense physical talent, skills and great size and when he wants to can dominate a game. But he's probably the least efficient bigtime scorer in the league (just .491 TS% right now!) because he chooses, year after year, to take more midrange jumpers than anyone in basketball. This year I read he's taking 11 of them a night, which would break a record. And even though he's a fine shooter who shoots 42-43% from 16 feet and out every season, he refuses to take the extra step behind the three-point line.

tk76 reply to Tray on Nov 24 at 9:21

He needs to talk to Hawes or Brett Brown.

spencer should be hired reply to tk76 on Nov 24 at 11:03

I was looking at the trade machine this morning and was surprised to see how Hinkie has the rights to Orton, H.Thompson,Wroten and Davies for 4 years on partial guarantees at less than a million for the first 2 to 3 years.

I guess the days of the 4 or 5 million dollar bench guys may be over here. It sure makes it easier to pay the higher level players on your roster. What group of players would you rather have all making 10 million a year. [J.McGee,Gallanari and Lawson] or [Spence,Evan and Thad].

Honestly, I don't want any 10M contracts given out until the franchise player is in place. Then they will better know which complementary good players will fit best.

Gotta be excited about MCW...if the sixers play themselves out of a top 5 pick though, this will have been such a wasted season

I don't know that you call it a wasted season as if Hinkie comes away with talent that low in the draft when it's weak - how's he going to do with a stronger draft and two lottery picks?

Also, I don't think Hinkie is done making moves yet, players signed in the off season can't be moved until the 15th of December, so I think you're three weeks away from moves being made, and I expect Hinkie to be active at least trying to improve the asset collection while maximizing the play of guys like Hawes Young and Turner if he can.

At this moment, my big concern is what is going on with Thaddeus Young?

Big Will reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 13:09

Last night on sports talk radio Keith Pompey said one of Thad's family members passed away, so Thad is taking bereavement time off. I understand and agree that a death in the family is a personal matter, but I don't remember another time a professional athlete was out for a couple of games with such little information being disclosed.

Matt reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 14:39

True, I get what you're saying. It's just so hard to pull out of mediocrity in the NBA, so you need to take advantage of every chance you can to get the talent necessary to do so. The Sixers' best chance is to get one of those top picks.

And Im not disagreeing - but I'm not saying they won't get there either - there are some teams below them (Boston, Brooklyn maybe even new york ) who could start playing better, and I expect Hinkie not to be satisfied with the roster as is as well - there's still a lot of seaso left

Mitch Lawrence wrote this yesterday

Evan Turner is thriving in Brett Brown’s motion offense in Philly and his value has never been higher. The Sixers don’t want to pay Turner $10 million per year when he becomes a restricted free agent this summer, so they’re expected to try to move him. The first team they’ll call, if they haven’t already, is the Cavaliers, who have been searching for a small forward since you-know-who took his talents to South Beach. Turner is an Ohio State alum and he’d be an upgrade over some of the players who have tried to fill you-know-who’s shoes, starting with Luke Walton, Alonzo Gee, Omri Casspi and Earl Clark. New York Daily News

See. People just don't get it...at all. And when I say people, I don't just mean idiot writers, I mean all the people here who bitch when I talk about how bad Turner is.

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 25 at 1:48

Well, this seems true enough, I guess:

"he’d be an upgrade over some of the players who have tried to fill you-know-who’s shoes, starting with Luke Walton, Alonzo Gee, Omri Casspi and Earl Clark."

Rusty reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 14:49

I think there are a few teams that make sense for each of our "big 3" of Thad, Turner and Hawes. But as you mentioned above, I also expect Hinkie to just try and get in the mix of any deals in the market, picking up pieces here and there. If the Kings and Twolves want to make a deal, I am SURE Hinkie will be looking for opportunities to get involved even if it doesn't include anyone of relevance to us.

I also question how "young" we really want to get and how Hinkie values veterans. He may not value veterans as much and may believe Brett Brown can handle the player development. I suppose next year's offseason will be much more telling.

And while the Turner bashing gets stale at times, I think its absolutely warranted. There was similar disgust sent towards Hawes over the past 3 years. Not to Turner's degree, but it was clear disappointment in how Spenc played. He has changed his game this year and the tone on the boards has changed. It is pretty simple. I really want to see if this "new Hawes" sustains this level of play over the majority of the season. He could be a major asset to a contender.

Hey now - I'm pretty sure my disgust level with Spencer Hawes reached Turner levels. I mean even if he's making them at a good rate this year I still call him kitten killer every time he takes a 3 :)

I want this new hawes to maintain for 3 more weeks and then I want him to be someone elses problem.

I'm sure Hinkie values veterans in the right context - but right now - it's not the right context - building the foundation is important - veterans who can provide that ephemeral 'locker room presence' or the more concrete '3 point shooter' or 'defensive guy' are easier to find than foundation pieces.

Maybe it's a pipe dream but it would be awesome - once the sixers have their foundation if that 3 point shooter was kyle korver...i liked that kid

Rusty reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 15:33

I think you are probably right regarding his value on veterans. The value of acquiring anything like that now will come at the cost of wins (depending on how impactful they'd be) which is not worth it.

If we are talking about pipe dreams in the shooter category. I am really liking this James Young kid from Kentucky. His numbers aren't too encouraging for a "sharp shooter", but the stroke looks like its there. And I love lefty shooters for no good reason. MY pipedream is that we get him with the Cans pick and combo with whoever we get in the top 3. Just dreaming.

Well my pipe dream was purely from the 'veteran' point of view - I would just like to see someone like Korver come back when the sixers are winning - with his shooting ability his career can last longer than some others

spencer should be hired on Nov 24 at 14:13

Anybody bored on an Eagles byeweek should put on N.B.A. TV . P.Maravich's rookie year game is on with Alcinder,Oscar,Bellamy and Hudson.

with PHX beating ORL tonight the west is now 43-17 vs the east this year

Jason Kidd isn't going to last until Christmas. Wonder if he'll have to sell his share of the team when they fire him.

Stan reply to Brian on Nov 25 at 17:26

wow. I didn't know he owned part of the Nets. I didn't coaches were allowed to do that.

I think Lawrence Frank gets fired and Lionel Hollins gets paid handsomely to be Kidd's assistant.

Question: If Jeanie and Jim Buss were to die, would Phil Jackson become the owner of the Lakers?

That would depend on Jeannie's will - and whether or not Jim Buss has heirs - he has a history of being a womanizer before he settled down - so he might...and california testate law is a bitch to deal with - i've been dealing with an intestate estate for like 3 years now

Stan reply to GoSixers on Nov 25 at 18:30

So Phil Jackson has to go an hunt down every single one of Jim Buss' bastard children?

And that includes Utah which is 0-4. It's almost like the west has 13 of the playoff worthy 16 teams in the NBA.

@ZachLowe_NBA NBA will announce tomorrow that box scores with video links will be available to all fans on http://NBA.com

‏@ZachLowe_NBA For example: If LeBron is 10-of-16 from the floor, fans can click on that "16," and see a video reel of all 16 LeBron shots

@ZachLowe_NBA There will be similar clickable video for assists, turnovers, steals, rebounds, but NOT fouls. Archive will include last season, too.

Court_visioN reply to sixerfan1220 on Nov 25 at 0:39

Wow. This is great stuff!

This could be really interesting indeed.

That's insane. Wow

rose officially out for the year

Man, where does that franchise go from here?

trade everyone but noah

bottom out hope you get a high pick and hope rose comes back ok

they also have the rights to nikola mirotic who supposedly really good

They might blow it up. Sell Deng and Noah to the highest bidder. Amnesty Boozer. And go with whatever's left of Rose, Butler, Mirotic and the new draft picks.

cool little thing with the videos

if you go to a players shot chart and click in the designated area you can see every shot he took in that area

for example you see every right side corner 3 evan turner shot

Does the videos actually work? I tried them but all i got was a pop up window with a shot chart. No videos...

they worked for me

heres ryan anderson's shot chart


just click on one of the areas

Nope doesn't work. Nothing happens...

Hmmm, must be a problem with my browser. Will figure it out...

im using chrome if that helps you

I am using Chrome as well and it turns out chrome was blocking the pop-up. I put nba.com in exceptions and it works now :)

Thanks. Looks great.

Can you watch video of all the shots Turner has had blocked?

maybe but i cant find it

Oh, wow. Kobe just screwed up any chance the Lakers had at a title in the next few years. I thought he would be smart enough to resign to a similar deal to the ones Duncan and Garnett signed a few years ago to ensure the teams had enough flexibility to build a contender around them...


What in the history of Kobe Bryant that we know publicly ever made you think he'd sign for a below market deal - it seems pretty clear to me that ego is his driving force

I thought wanting to become the greatest ever was his driving force. Part of that would be winning more titles than Jordan.

Also this is not even a market deal. They overpaid by a fairly high margin without even knowing that he can even play after the injury.

ojr107 reply to Xsago on Nov 25 at 16:51

Cowardly move by the Lakers. He was 36 and coming back from a blown out ACL. He is going to go down hill due to age and the injury. His defense was terrible last year, a big part of the reason the team was average. The Lakers didn't even want to see how well he plays after the injury before giving him 25 million a year?

How is it cowardly by the lakers?

As for this

I thought wanting to become the greatest ever was his driving force. Part of that would be winning more titles than Jordan.

And when did Michael Jordan ever do selfless things - you mean like when he 'retired' to play baseball to avoid shaming the NBA?

ojr107 reply to GoSixers on Nov 25 at 17:05

Cowardly because they were so terrified of an unhappy Kobe that they gave him 25 million a year before even seeing how well he could play after such a terrible injury. They have to realize there is a good chance that Kobe is not going to be nearly as good as he was before the injury. If they had gave him the extension after watching him for 30 games this season and saw he was the same player as last year, I'd be more forvgiving(but still disagree with it).

Tray reply to ojr107 on Nov 25 at 17:09

I think the Lakers know that their fanbase cares more about Kobe than winning. And I'm totally okay with them managing their team to satisfy their fans. It seems to me the point of winning games is to satisfy fans, not because winning is a virtuous thing in and of itself, so if your fans care more about keeping some iconic player around, and happy, and respecting him, keep the iconic player around and respect him.

Stan reply to ojr107 on Nov 25 at 17:20

Michael Jordan made $63 million in his final two years with Chicago and he signed that deal 16 years ago. Kobe is making $48 million in his last two years. He's a good guy. Took less money for the team. Anyway, next year's free agency class is nothing special (I don't expect Melo or Miami's big 3 to go anywhere).

South Broad reply to Stan on Nov 25 at 21:11


Berger sums it up pretty well. More in tune with your stance; I agree also about him taking less for the team.

"He's a good guy."

I can think of at least one woman who would disagree with that statement. Probably two if you count his wife (or is it ex-wife now?)

Nope - they haven't gotten divorced yet - i don't feel so bad for her as she pretty much met him when she was a high school cheer leader - and when you don't leave him after the whole rape thing (but get a honking big 5 million dollar ring) the gold digger thing fits nicely.

Such a shame that he's considered one of the most famous alumni from my high school - him and james watt as opposed to the one from the 30 something pair and amy aquino

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 26 at 2:31

However lousy a guy he may be, and it's hard for us to say, he probably dedicated himself to his craft as much as any athlete in any sport ever has - perhaps as much as any entertainer in any medium. Just looking at basketball, his whole generation of fellow superstars is washed up or retired now, while he's still a great player after a career in which he logged way more minutes than Iverson, McGrady, Carter, etc. There's something commendable in all of this, not to say that the Kobe way is for everyone.

That was the case prior to Kobe blowing out his Achilles. But currently he is 25 and may or may not come back to play at an elite level. Also, Kobe was younger than some of his "peers."

It's hard to compare him against his historical Peers, as MJ had "retired" from age 35-38, Magic was forced to retire at 31, Dr. J won a title at 33, put up 20 ppg at 34 but declined quickly. Oscar declined after 32. Drexler declined a bit at 33 then retired at 35 scoring 18 ppg. Some guys at different positions like Nash and Kareem, Stockton, Nash, Duncan and KG were all borderline great into their late 30's.

Generally generational talents have enough of a leg up on in order to be great even after they lose a step or two. I guess we will see how Kobe does. I don't doubt his fire, but I did not doubt Brand's fire either after his achilles.

buke reply to Stan on Nov 26 at 13:44

Well, OK, but I would say that what he is getting is still pretty lucrative given his age and current risk.

It is also worth noting that Jordan earned about 90 million from the NBA in his career while Kobe is on schedule to earn about 280 million through the end of this year. Those two years you refer to were major outliers in Jordan's career. They must have been sort of an end-of-career bonus. Even with inflation (which has not been that high over the last 30 years), Kobe has earned considerably more. For most of Jordan's career, he probably was paid less than he should have been.

Of course, mostly due to Kobe's infamous incident, his endorsement career has been dwarfed by Jordan's.

Stan reply to buke on Nov 26 at 14:55

I was being a little sarcastic when I brought up Jordan and said Kobe was "a good guy".

However from Kobe's perspective, the Lakers don't really have a shot at winning a title in the next two years no matter how much he gets paid. They have no assets to trade and no premiere free agents willing to sign with them. Maybe their best shot was to sign Loul Deng this summer and go after Kevin Love and Marc Gasol/Tyson Chandler in 2015. But it's unlikely that all of that would happen

If he's going to play out his career with a mediocre team, he might as well get paid well to do so.

Derrick Williams will be traded to the Kings in a deal for Luc Richard Mbah a Moute that will be completed as soon as Tuesday morning so long as physicals are passed.

I like this deal for MIN. LRMAM won't give you anything on the offensive end, but he'll defend. Something they need badly.

Removes Sacramento from the ET trading partner list.

tk76 reply to sfw on Nov 26 at 10:23

Also removes the ET for Williams deals.

Williams played pretty well when he got extended minutes last year. i could see him thriving at some point down the line, obv not in Sacramento though


who knew it's important for professional athletes to take care of their bodies?

it's always mind boggling to me when i hear franchises serve their employees, pro athletes, shit like fried chicken and pizza at the postgame buffet

What's more frustrating- Being a Sixers fan or a Timberwolves fan?

Like the Sixers they did have a superstar for 10+ years and failed to build a championship team. They're probably upset over trading away Ray Allen in 1996 like the Sixers are upset for not drafting Pierce or Nowitzki in 1998.

Aside from 2008 and 2010 the Sixers haven't really made any terrible draft picks. It is a little saddening however to look at the Pacers and know in the back of your head that this team could have been the 76ers. The Elton Brand signing and the Andrew Bynum trade were exciting at the time but they turned out to be huge mistakes. It's a little depressing watching Vucevic and Harkless and knowing that we gave up those players for a guy that never played a minute for us.

Minnesota on the other hand drafted Derrick Williams at #2 overall, Wesley Johnson at #4 overall, and Johnny Flynn at #6 overall. They traded Ty Lawson to Denver for Luke Babbit and they traded Brandon Roy to Portland for Randy Foye. They do have a solid core with Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio, but it must be upsetting knowing that both of those guys are going to leave once they become UFAs.

The Timberwolves are like the Sixers of the West.

buke reply to Stan on Nov 26 at 13:25

As someone who lives in Minnesota, I would say being a Timberwolves fan. However, not all the decisions they have made have been bad. True, they did trade Roy for Foye but Roy's career was very short lived anyway. At least they didn't get stuck waiting multiple years for him to return. They traded the draft rights to OJ Mayo for the rights to Kevin Love and also received Mike Miller in that trade. I'd say that move was brilliant. They also signed the relatively under-the-radar Pekovic.

wroten expected to play tomorrow

hawes a GTD but brown expects him to play

Kobe has already made 280 million in salary. The Lakers don't owe him financially anything extra. But I do think they will keep more fan interest if they keep him the next 2 years while the franchise figures out how to bridge to their next superstar.

It was supposed to be CP3 and then Dwight, but I guess they will go back to the drawing board and find someone else who will force their way to LA. Their biggest problem is that the Clippers are actually competition and offer another LA destination. But somehow I expect that they will end up with some top 10 player in their prime.

and without (what's left of) him do they face a steep steep dropoff in attendance, merch sales, TV revenue, etc etc so it costs them less to keep him than to replace him with someone else...one could almost call that a Jeter situation...

Stan reply to tk76 on Nov 26 at 15:27

I can see Love, Westbrook or Holiday go there since they're all LA guys.

buke reply to Stan on Nov 26 at 16:18

Good call. Perhaps they may decide to collude in the future like the three in Miami.

That 'big 3' wouldn't win many titles - not to mention one of them just signed an extension - they won't be free agents at the same time

I'd say a Westbrook/Love pairing is a serious contender level pairing. They would still need the appropriate pieces around them, but you can't do much better than that, those are 2 top 10 players there.

That being said, i think even though we all think the Lakers will somehow stumble onto a superstar again, they might be in trouble for a while. They are a very far behind all of the new stuff in the NBA and without a superstar already in place, it won't be that easy to pry someone away from their current team. Not to mention, it's gonna be a while before someone is even available (Love in 2015 is the first one, but with Kobe under that contract it's difficult to pull off).

They have bad ownership - Jerry's misogyny put the wrong guy in charge - until that changes - the lakers are doomed

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 26 at 21:00

Donald Sterling is running a contender, and who ever would have seen that coming? You always comment in such absolute terms. Jim doesn't seem too bright, but they can afford to go way above the cap, are an iconic and attractively located franchise, and because their roster is so empty, they may be able to appeal to players looking to be *the guy*. I give them a chance.

spencer should be hired reply to Xsago on Nov 26 at 23:21

I believe a Noel/Love pairing works well and until Love gets put with a shotblocker he won't win. Add M.C.W. and a good to great player in this draft and maybe he comes here. Does our coach, in a year or 2 attract a big name guy?

In Cooney's article it said Turner was 235lbs. at times last year. Now he is at 215 with 2.5 bodyfat in his contract year. Iggy always came to camp in shape. That is a red flag to me as far as signing him.

ET is not Speights. I think his newfound fitness will continue. i don't think his efficient play will continue, but I don't think he will fall off the wagon and be a lazy/flabby player after this season. A lot of players figure out the whole weight/fitness thing a few years into their careers.

spencer should be hired reply to tk76 on Nov 27 at 7:37

It is not that he got in better shape but the amount of weight he lost[20 lbs.] that bothers me. What was his weight at Ohio St.?

Didn't Doug ask Turner to put on some weight so he will be able to battle SFs last year?

Stan reply to Xsago on Nov 27 at 11:31

Usually when a coach tells you to put on some weight he means muscle.

20 lbs isn't all that much weight to lose for a 6'7" guy and I believe I read the same thing as Xsago mentioned about him putting on weight when he was originally switched to the small forward position. We have a 6'10" center/forward at the U of Minnesota who lost 60 lbs. over the summer to comply with the new coach's fitness directives.

Turner may have a tendency for weight gain in his genes, though. I've seen a picture of his mother and she is well past the obese borderline.

That's been my best case scenario for the Sixers ever since they drafted Noel (i liked Love as a trade/free agent target even prior to that though). If MCW does indeed pan out (and early returns are very promising), that's a hell of a core. You might not even need a star on the wings. Two good 3 and D guys might be enough.

P.S. The Sixers are positioned to strike in 2015 free agency and all of their moves so far suggest, it's the 2015 offseason where they plan to take the step towards being a contender. And i think the Sixers will have a solid chance at getting Love as a free agent or even prior to that via trade.

Assuming Hinkie uses the Houston playbook, then you have to expect they have several FA targets. The Rockets whiffed on Dwight before landing Harden and then going back and getting Dwight on their second try.

If 2015 is their target year the who else wold be a target in addition to Love? LMA will be 30, Gay 29... and both would make Brian's head explode. Who else might be a target in 2015?

Durant in 2016? Houston always aimed high...

Stan reply to Xsago on Nov 27 at 13:03

There are so many teams with cap space in 2015- LA, Chicago, NYK, Boston, Golden State, Dallas, Houston....
The Sixers would have to get a star in next year's draft or trade for one to convince Love to come here.

no wroten tonight

thad back tonight but brown is leaning towards bringing him off the bench

Well that's a better way (I think) to showcase him for teams that might be interested in him - he's better used off the bench in my mind

Orton has turned Young into Wallie Pip... at least for one day.

need orton's post defense since vucevic is the 2nd coming and all

TwoGuardDrought on Nov 27 at 12:40

Collins used to always say Thad's couldn't maintain his level of play beyond about 8 minute stretches on the floor. Maybe that's still the case. He is the only player who hasn't stepped up his play since last year.

The next time you complain about parking at a sixers game

Valet at a Lakers Game - $200 bucks

YoungGun13 on Nov 27 at 17:09

17 minutes ago Broussard reported this about Waiters and Turner:

"The Cleveland Cavaliers are actively shopping second-year shooting guard Dion Waiters, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

Three teams the Cavaliers are known to have spoken with are the New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls and Philadelphia 76ers, the sources said. The Cavs' targets are Iman Shumpert in New York, Evan Turner in Philadelphia and Luol Deng in Chicago, sources said."

Luol doesn't seem like a very realistic target, but what do I know. Broussard goes on to explain why the Cavs are so eager to trade Waiters:

"Although Waiters has not demanded a trade, he brought up the subject in a three-hour meeting last week with coach Mike Brown and general manager Chris Grant. Waiters got into an altercation with Tristan Thompson during a players-only meeting after a loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves on Nov. 13.

Sources described the following account:

Irving called the meeting after the game, and every player spoke. When Waiters was given the floor, he criticized Thompson and Irving, accusing them of playing "buddy ball'' and often refusing to pass to him. Thompson took umbrage with Waiters' words and went back at him verbally. The two confronted each other, but teammates intervened before it could escalate into a fight.

Waiters believes the Cavaliers have a double standard when it comes to Irving, sources said. Waiters feels that while Irving is allowed to get away with loafing defensively, making turnovers and taking bad shots, he is taken out of games for such things. Waiters has shared his views with Brown and Grant."

A few questions here, in no order of importance. Why would Cleveland personnel share this stuff with ESPN and tarnish the reputation of a player they want to trade? Is a Turner-Waiters deal a realistic possibility? Is a Turner-Waiters deal a good idea? Would it help us tank in the short term? Would it make us better in the long term? Are Waiters's stats, which suggest a homeless man's Monta Ellis, a fair gauge of what can be expected of him in the future?

dont see the sixers trading for Waiters unless they get something else back(like a 1st rounder)

he doesnt seem to fit what they are trying to build

Remember - you're talking about Evan Turner

maybe not a 1st but i would strongly think about turner for waiters and sergey karasev

I'd definitely do Waiters + Karasev. I wouldn't do Turner for Waiters straight up. No way. Waiters is a lot like Turner, just worse.

Tray reply to Xsago on Nov 27 at 18:47

Waiters can finish a little better than Turner because he can get off the ground, is that right? Also in his rookie season, Synergy had him shooting 41 percent on spot-up threes, bk ref says the same on long twos. Suppose he's a better shooter and better athlete athlete and his problem is taking a lot of high degree of difficulty shots and generally playing out of control - like Turner, but worse. Might he not, with coaching, ultimately be a better player?

works on the trade machine with -4 wins. I'm with you on that deal.

Also, this works although not sure about it.

ET, Allen plus NO #1
waiters & Bennett

no hawes tonight

TwoGuardDrought on Nov 27 at 18:01

Wait, I thought they already announced Hawes was playing ...

Two points regarding Sixers - Magic.

1. Aaron Afflalo seems destined to score 40+ points tonight against a Sixers defense that plays like the 3 point line is an invisible electric dog fence.

2. If the Sixers wanted to win 50 games this year they could probably do it in two steps: a. trade Thad Young for Afflalo [who is plays Oladipo's position anyway] plus James Anderson.
b. Play Nerlens Noel this year.
Not saying they would ever do that but an actual shooting guard who could play defense and an inside presence which allowed the Sixers to push the defense out to defend the three and this team could win a lot of games with Brown as coach.

I'm fine with pretty much any trade involving Turner as long as it doesn't return a bad contract. It would be a pleasure to not have to watch him anymore.

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