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The Dreaded Home and Home

If anyone can achieve the difficult home at home double loss - it's an Evan Turner led team

Plus - you know - if somehow a trade happens that means players have to be held out - that's always a good thing - get on it Mr Hinkie

Trade would happen before Wed, right? That was Morey's thing, to make the players eligible to be moved again before the deadline or something.

The rumor is that he wants it done by the 19th, and the other rumor is that the sixers and rockets have a 'handshake' but Morey might be trying to find something better (cause he wants picks and ain't getting them from the sixers)

I want that lakers pick from the suns

PS - Marcin Gortat is unhappy - publicly - just saying

Don't want anyone who could potentially add wins this year.

Besides wanting to see him play, I really don't want MCW back this year in terms of tanking.

I wouldn't call two games separated by 4 days - home and home :) Also, due to the brilliant schedule this is actually not a home and home for the Nets. And to make it even funnier, after the first Brooklyn game, the Sixers will have only 2 games in the next 10 days - and those 2 will be a back-to-back on Friday/Saturday.

I predict a loss tonight, then MCW returns on Friday, Brown has 3 off days to game plan the Nets and the Sixers win on Friday.

Sounds reasonable. But it's also possible some players might be involved in an Asik trade and i the incoming ones might not be ready for the Friday game. The team is so shallow, that they can't really afford anyone to be out for any period of time to have a chance to win. The bench unit is consisted of players who shouldn't be in the NBA (Brown, Williams, and Davies) or are borderline NBA players (Orton, Allen). Only Wroten and Anderson can crack an NBA rotation on another team, and even they would struggle to find minutes consistently.

I think it all comes down to Lopez's availability.

from ford in his insider column with his tanking rankings

"From what I can gather, all of the Bobcats' phone calls are about making this team better now. I'm even hearing rumblings that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will be on the table when he returns from injury."

Thad and Turner for MKG and Biyombo.

Not sure how i feel about this deal (and it doesn't work salary wise), but i would love to get MKG.

MKG is going to be an extremely limited offensive player his entire career imo, but he fits my overall plan like a glove.

Mike reply to Brian on Dec 16 at 14:04

he's already one of the best defenders in the league. from TrueHoop:

It's a closely guarded secret that the Bobcats are good at something, but today their defense is fourth best in the league, just after the Bulls and just ahead of the Heat and Thunder. But line up the NBA's best defensive player combinations in terms of points allowed per possession, and Kidd-Gilchrist's long and noticeable name is all over the place. There are three four-man Bobcats lineups with MKG that play better defense than the best four-man combination of Indiana Pacers. If you rank the whole league's best two-man defensive combinations, the top five pairs are all Pacers -- except for Kidd-Gilchrist and Gerald Henderson, who are third in the whole NBA in that ranking.

Kidd-Gilchrist, who is out with a broken finger at the moment, has played nearly 500 minutes this season, during which time the Bobcats have basically been the Pacers, with a 94.8 points per 100 possessions. When he's on the bench, they give up more than 100.

You just want guys who you can abbreviate into 3 letter like MCW and MKG - next - must get LBJ of course

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 16 at 13:49

I would draft Embiid, but an offensively limited shot-blocking backup center for our offensively limited shot-blocking center?

Long athletes who can run and defend. That's the profile I'm looking for. With Love being the linchpin. If you don't get Love, every game winds up 85-80 until you get a scorer.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 16 at 15:04

So long as this team has a top 7 offense or so.

First I build the #1 D, then I worry about the O.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 16 at 18:06

Hypothesis: good nba defense is more attainable without elite defensive talent than good nba offense is attainable without elite offensive talent.

Used to be true. Not sure it still is. It seems to me that some teams are figuring out how to have success offensively simply by playing in a smart analytics based system.

I'm with Brian on this one. Get the long athletic players and create a great defensive identity and go after Love next. Some of those highly touted athletes will develop into a good offensive player over time anyway.

I agree with your premise - but defense is still 'easier' for more players to play well - effort makes up a large portion of defense - where as if your shot is broken no amount of effor during the game is going to make up for that (ask Evan Turner, see what I did there?)

Tray reply to Xsago on Dec 16 at 19:52

Which teams do you have in mind?

The Spurs are the first team coming to my mind. They constantly have a great offense no matter who is actually on the floor. And they really shouldn't be that good offensively when you look at the names. Only Parker is a major plus offensive player.

I'd also probably look for a couple of streaky scorers off the bench. Lou types.

sixer fan for life reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 8:48

That would ne a great trade. No way Charlotte would do it though. Throw in the Pelicans pick?

ESPN has the Sixers ranked second-to-last, with the Bucks in pole position. link

also from those ESPN rankings: The Suns (#7) are ranked higher than the Rockets (#8). Who would've predicted that coming into the season?

Gotta admit, i did not see the Suns success coming. It's truly a shocker. Not only are they good, but they are good in the West. Hornacek is coaching the hell out of that team. Not sure how long it can last, but it seems to me the Bledsoe-Dragic backcourt can efinitely be their backcourt of the future and part of their core. They might be just a star big man away from contention, which is crazy.

Rodney reply to Xsago on Dec 16 at 21:46

Weren't you leading the Alex Len bandwagon before the draft last year? What happened to that guy?

Tray reply to Rodney on Dec 16 at 22:27

Blocked by Miles Plumlee.

Injuries. If someone can fix him though it's the Suns staff. Still have hope for him. Just like Noel.

wonder what team will break the 3pt record vs the sixers

malik sounds really fed up with the way they are defending the 3 pt line

Keep on keepin' on, Turner.

3 more days hopefully

the magic go into Chicago and beat the bulls

celtics also beat the t'wolves

Is this a good thing from a tanking perspective or a bad thing? One thing is for certain in my mind: the 8-17 Magic will trade Arron Afflalo. He's averaging 21.5 points on .586 TS% and is tanking poison. He cost them tonight's game. They would have 5 wins and be tied with the Jazz if not for him. Another takeaway from tonight's scores is that the chance the Bulls will trade Luol and/or Boozer is rising. As far as the Celtics, they claim they're bringing Rondo back next month. There was also a report that Miami inquired into the availability of shockingly-good-this-year Jordan Crawford. But I haven't seen much about them selling guys off, and they've also been rumored to be Asik's destination in our supposed three-team deal.

need the magic to pile up as many wins as possible

i cant see the bulls blowing it up, though they probably should

The Magic could be extremely bad w/o Afflalo. Keep in mind that last year's 20-62 team had him AND Redick for most of the season. Who would lead Orlando without him? Oladipo is still something of a wild man on the court.

A small sign that Chicago might blow it up - after initially making noises about trading for a point guard to hold the fort down while Rose was gone, and demoting Marquis Teague to the D-League, the Bulls reversed course, cut their veteran backup Mike James, and brought Teague (who's been a disaster) back up. Not a move that a team with lofty short-term goals makes. They also grabbed D.J. Augustin, but he's still just 26.

FWIW, Afflalo was not good last year. At all.

The Magic are a mystery to me. They have a ton of promising young players and it's difficult to say how much they will lose if some of the veterans leaves.

young promising players: Vucevic, Oladipo, Harris, Harkless, Nicholson, O'Quinn

veterans: Afflalo, Nelson, Davis, Maxiell

Not sure trading just Afflalo will make them that much worse. In my opinoin they need to trade all of their veterans to get to the Sixers level. And it's a little difficult to justify blatant tanking with so many young players already on board. It's not like you can sit them on purpose when they need to keep developing.

If Orlando wants to tank they need to keep Jameer healthy and play him 45 minutes/game.

Woof... painful is an understatement.

Fun stat of the day: Evan Turner has 0 blocks in 945 minutes. Nate Robinson has 3 blocks in 469 minutes.

Who was 'guarding' Joe Johnson in the 3rd quarter? Did anyone watch the game?

You know who the most likely candidate is.

I mean he was the most likely but I din't want to make that assumption - don't wanna be accused of bias and hatred

watch the video looks like a bunch of different people. Think it was Turner for about half of them. Most of the time he was late closing out, on one of them he's just sort of lost.

the one 3 where johnson was in the corner and you see evan run right by him

evan was late getting back cause he was arguing with the official

That's awesome. Right now Turner is down to 0.2 offensive win shares, how long until he's in the negatives again?

end of the month at the latest

I wonder if he had any value after the first seven games. Wish Hinkie would've pulled the trigger before the inevitable happened.

I would expect he tried - but I guess no NBA GM's are that stupid - so we've established a baseline

spencer should be moved reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 10:24

His value to the sixers will probably end up being capspace. They don't seem to be ready to take a player and long term salary for him.

I would bet his meeting in the coachs' office with Brown and Hinkie was about his bitching to the refs.

The GM would be involved in a meeting about bitching to the refs?

I wouldn't put it past him, here's a guy with his first job trying not just to build a winning team but a winning culture. Given the authority by ownership to do what it takes. He strikes me as being involved in the whole culture of the sixers, the franchise needs an overhaul, not just the roster, and Hinkie and Brown are going to do it together.

spencer should be moved reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 10:45

He's hurting his trade value and Sam must be pissed.

I doubt he's pissed. This is Turners level, and everyone in the league has more than enough film to know that this is his level and that the early start was probably more illusion than anything else - heck even Spence seems to be leveling off a bit. A few phantom injuries to keep them out of games so as not to make it worse wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Where's the story about a meeting w/ Hinkie and Brown?

Here's mention of it, no mention of course of what happened.

Turner is such a douche.

Even below-average 3-point shooters understand the triple's appeal. "It's just analytics," says Evan Turner, a career 32 percent 3-point shooter who has historically preferred midrange shots — not exactly what his new analytically oriented GM, Sam Hinkie, wants for the Sixers. "Analytics is really popular, so you have to worry about all that smart stuff now. I was never a fan of the 3, but everybody loves it. Fans love it. You don't hear fans saying, 'Yo, another 3? Come on.'"

in lowe's column about the 3 pointer


I don't think reliance on the three is hurting the NBA - i think piss poor shooting mechanics from the majority of players is what's hurting the NBA - the lack of fundamentals being taught at the earliest levels - that's what's hurting the NBA

I never really understood why this is the case. Just comparing it to Europe it's really unbelievable because the young US players are far more physically mature than their European peers who pay very little attention to their body and athleticism in their early stages, but in terms of fundamentals, the Europeans are far more advanced than the US kids.

It seems unreal to me that there is such a stark difference in general (there are exception of course).

I don't like Paul McCartney. I just realized this yesterday.

I always felt the Beatles were vastly over rated (and the kinks amazingly under appreciated, Father Christmas is the best christmas song ever)

Tray reply to Stan on Dec 17 at 14:23

Took you long enough.

spencer should be moved on Dec 17 at 12:47

Do you guys think the combo of Noel/Asik intrigues our g.m. or coach at all? If they get Parker in the draft and eventually acquire a 3pt. shooting s.g. could enough offense be gotten from the other 3 spots?

Maybe Noel's shot is looking better from 10 to 15 ft.. What a defensive tandem they could be.

Eh. Asik's a really strong defender, but he's not the type of guy I'm looking for. If Hinkie thinks he's a good value, they could keep him. I doubt they're salivating over a Noah/Asik front court, though.

spencer should be moved reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 13:07

He averaged a double/double the first year he got minutes and if he sets good screens along with our player development staff who knows.

Noel is definitely athletic enough to guard on the perimeter and should be able to eventually develop a midrange game.

And with M.C.W. showing a scoring p.g.'s game it may be worth a try. Give this team Parker and G.Robinson Jr. in the draft and see how it plays out.

Brian, you said earlier build the defense first and see what happens.

I just can't imagine a Noel/Asik front court working out or Noel being able to fix his jumpshot to the point that Hinkie would have the confidence to make a move like this.

If Hinkie thinks that Asik can be a central piece on this team's roster he should just sign him in free agency in 2015. Asik isn't someone who cares about his legacy. He's going to the highest bidder.

I just don't understand why there are rumors about him coming here in the first place. It's highly unlikely that we would get draft picks out of trading for him and it would be extremely foolish to give up draft picks to acquire him.

spencer should be moved reply to Stan on Dec 17 at 13:13

Think about all the teams interested in him. Than think about all the teams interested in Thad, Spence and Evan. He is more valuable as far as acquiring more assets than our players.

That is why most of us believe Hinkie wants him but I just wonder if Hinkie wants him as a player.

Could just be Morey telling his sources there are a bunch of teams interested in him.

I want length and athleticism to build my defensive dream time. A bunch of really quick guys who can cover out to the three-point line, and switch everything. Don't think Asik fits that profile.

And the the reason this is the path forward I'd take is because it fits the two pieces we have in place.

spencer should be moved reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 13:30

I hope Noel can become strong enough to man the middle full time but am not totally sold on that yet. I hope he can because the rest of his game seems based on that.

spencer should be moved reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 13:35

Your logic points to Wiggins being the perfect 3rd piece to the puzzle.

Yep. Wiggins and Vonleh are the guys I'd like to see them come out of the draft with. Even if Vonleh winds up coming off the bench because they need more shooting, he's the type of athlete I want.

spencer should be moved reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 17:31

Vonleh is tough to figure as far as his future. He is compared to Mashburn but reminds me of Buck Williams or maybe C.Bosh. I don't think he ever will play the 3 but he makes this an 8 player draft at the top.

Don't forget Exum if you want length and athletism and if the Penny Hardeway comparisons are legit.

I differ from your approach in that I want a guy that can get 20 to 25 ppg. the rest of his career out of this draft and feel that Randle and Parker are the best options.

With a defensive center and possibly good defensive p.g. in place I want that to be the next piece but not a Melo kind of guy and Parker sounds like Grant Hill as far as character.

The Six reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 19:09

Keep in mind that Chris Walker has yet to suit up for Florida. He has just recently been ruled academically eligible by the NCAA and now scouts are just waiting to see when he'll play his first game. From an athletic perspective he's supposedly another freak. He could be considered for that second (Pelican's) pick as well if he's as good as scouts think he'll be. Florida plays Memphis tonight in the Jimmy V Classic, but Walker is not expected to play just yet.

I just don't buy that logic. Houston is going to trade him if it's a good deal regardless of what team offers it. Trading for him and then putting him back on the market again isn't going to do anything to change his value. He probably loses value as well next year since he is owed $15 million.

Is his contract backloaded?

Think there may actually be more of a market for him at the trade deadline this year than there is right now. You're going to have injuries, teams on the bubble desperate to get in, etc. To me, this isn't a great time to trade a legit asset, but Morey wants to improve his team immediately, I guess.

spencer should be moved reply to Stan on Dec 17 at 17:55

It is our g.m.'s logit I think of and wonder how the affect of M.C.W. being this teams best player already affects his "plan" moving forward. It has to be hard to be patient and build with 3 years down the road as the objective.

Is getting Asik to good to pass on when he doesn't have to relinquish draft picks, ala his mentor [Morey]. Does looking at all the empty seats at the games weigh on his mind. Asik doesn't have a long contract so it won't hamstring this team going forward.

btw, anyone remember what Iguodala used to do to Joe Johnson?

Hmmn, has anyone seen UCLA this year? Any thoughts on Zach LaVine? Sounds like he fits my profile, but he can shoot as well.

Haven't yet - but 'ESPN3' has two games from November available


I'm not to the point where I'm going to watch game film. Do like the idea of putting another long guy at SG who can handle and shoot. Don't think MCW is a traditional PG, and I think having a two who can handle some of the creating abilities and spread the floor would be really helpful. It must be fun to be a GM.

Stan reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:47

I watched his highlight video a few weeks ago and he looks really impressive- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibdbx7tGtXQ

Looks like a good shooter. He's shoootin 46% from the 3. Last time I check Draftexpress had him ranked at #42.

Really quick release, doesn't need to have his feet set, and very athletic. I'd like to see him put some weight on, but yeah I think I have new target w/ the Pelicans pick.

So starting five opening night next year:


Wroten, Thompson and Orton off the bench.

Should be bad enough to land another decent pick in the draft, should be a ton of fun to watch. You move Thad prior to the trade deadline for a piece and a pick, then get ready for Kevin Love the following summer.

Stan reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 17:12

So what's your top 3 prospects after Wiggins?

Dunno. Haven't watched enough. Don't really want to think about it.


Maybe Coach not concerned because he knows that these will not be his guys when the games start to count again. He knows Noel will play defense and MCW will buy in so he will just wait for the rest of the pieces to fill in and work on defense from there.

Maybe Coach has no clue about teaching defense and his teams will always be offensively biased.

Maybe ???

It's a concern, but I doubt a Pop assistant would just ignore the defensive end. I find it troubling, because even poor defenders can be coached into a decent defense, it sure doesn't seem like a priority. Turner's possibly the worst defensive wing in the league, so that doesn't help.

Bubba reply to Brian on Dec 17 at 16:16

Maybe the fact that they have absolutely no presence in the middle to help out the other defenders makes it an impossible situation and the Coach knows it.

Could be. Don't think a presence in the middle is suddenly going to make Turner any quicker or less lazy, though. Maybe it would help cover up some of his mistakes.

WHo was their presence in the middle last year?

The defense is considerably worst than last year - with not a massive roster change in players that matter (and a better defensive point guard purely from a length point of view)

As much as we love Brown, he does deserve some criticism about the defense. It's not like this team has that much less defensive talent than last year's team. Most of the key players are the same, and those that are not are similar in terms of defensive impact. It's not like N.Young and Wright made the defense so good.

For all his faults on the offensive end, Collins got tremendous contributions out of that team on the defensive end.

Stan reply to Xsago on Dec 17 at 20:51

I honestly think he's coaching this way to lose games. We'll see next year.

Stein says Asik deal coming down to a 3 way with Boston / Philly the top two contenders to get Asik

Bleacher says Waiters is a hot commodity and that Bulls and Sixers are top contenders and that Waiters wants to come to Philly (and wants out of Cleveland) because he'd be the 'best player' in Philly. Keep in mind that it's Bleacher Report - but if that's dude's mindset - no thanks.

Of course BR claims they have a source close to the sixers that claims the organization 'loves' Turner - which would discount every concept of intelligent analytical approaches to the game...

spencer should be moved reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 22:31

Asik makes a lot of sense for Boston. He can cover up defensively for their last 2 top picks [Sullinger,Olynyk] and could make them a top 4 team in the east when Rondo gets back.


With Olynyk,B.Bass,J.Crawford coming off the bench that is not bad.

That being said, does Ainge give up picks to get him.

maybe, we should let boston have him.

spencer should be moved reply to sfw on Dec 17 at 22:51

If we could get Humphries[expiring] and a couple picks than it makes sense to let him go there but Boston wants Wallace included, I'm sure.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 17 at 23:13

Just stop reading Bleacher Report. There's about a 20 percent chance that anything they say is true.

In tanking news around the league, Gay has not yet hurt Sacramento. In his first couple games he was quite alright, although in his second game he took way more shots than anyone on the team, which over the long run is a bad idea. Tonight, Sacramento lost to the Bobcats, dropping them to 7-16 and 1.5 games ahead of us, but Gay's uncharacteristically gun-shy one for six shooting night had less to do with it than a disastrous game from the Kings backcourt and bench. Cousins was terrific, with 30, 17 and 6, plus 3 steals, all on 13 shots (for a .765 TS%). Just the 16th player since 1985 with a 30/17/6/3 line.

Memphis lost at home to the Lakers. At 10-14, they're closer to catching us in the tankstakes (3.5 games ahead of us) than they are to the 8th seed in the Western playoffs (4 games behind Dallas). They're actually 7th worst in the league in scoring margin, worse than the Knicks and Kings, and "should" be a win worse than their record right now. Might they tank (or at least deal Randolph and sit Gasol longer than he really needs to) and attempt to draft a star to play with Gasol and Conley? We'll see. I think if I were them I would trade Randolph for some young guys even if this weren't a great year for the draft.

And lastly, the Pelicans are getting blown out by the Warriors, which as chance would have it will knock them from 12th to 10th in the standings if the score holds up.

Scott from VT on Dec 17 at 23:58

How about an article on everyones ultimate 2 draft picks for 2014 assuming top 3 and pick 6-14...

Assuming the following players available

Jabari Parker
Gary Harris
James Young

Brian make it happen and your dream of Turner being traded for unprotected 2014 first round pick from Chicago will come true..

So many interesting scenarios
Randle and Smart
Embiid and Exum
Wiggins and Vonleh
Parker and Gordon

So let it be done...

I wish it could happen, but i don't think you are getting any of these combinations. The Pelicans pick won't be that high.

Wiggins and Lavine are my two right now. But I do like Exum.

My top 5:

1. Wiggins
2. Parker
3. Embiid
4. Exum
5. Gordon

As you can see I'm not a big fan of Randle. I'd probably take him in the 6-8 range depending on how much I like Vonleh and Marcus Smart.

These Asik rumors are funny to me. I think he's a nice player, and an asset, but Houston is backed into a corner here. He doesn't fit their team, they have obvious holes they need to fill, and if they can't trade him, they owe him a ton of money next year...money they couldn't spend on pieces that fit.

Anyone who includes a first-rounder in a deal for him is a sucker, imo.

I'm not really sure why the sixers are involved in these talks unless there's some sort of 3 way that nets them assets - obtaining asik and giving up (say) Thaddeus Young makes no sense to me - I would think Young would have more value to another term.

Phoenix has all those picks and wants to get to the playoffs - let's get er done somehow

This is insane:

According to Stein and Windhorst, many league sources believe one reason Rockets GM Daryl Morey imposed the December 19th deadline in the first place was a belief that he could get a deal done by then with Sixers GM (and former Rockets assistant GM) Sam Hinkie. The Rockets would want to do a deal involving Spencer Hawes and at least one first-round pick.

I don't think Hinkie is that Stupid - I think stein and windhorst are getting played by the great Morey to fuel interest from other teams, and Hinkie will play along and not 'deny' it and Morey owes him a favor.

He already took Royce White off his hands so he'd have enough cap space to sign Dwight. How many favors is he going to do Morey?

He got something out of it (supposedly that other guys in the trade was someone Hinkie wanted) and it didn't hurt the sixers, that nonsense rumor hurts the sixers.

Though - you're the one who wants a focus on defensive players :)

Rangy, athletic defenders. Asik is more of a guy who occupies space very well.

It's not even clear cut that Asik is a better player than Hawes. He's definitely better on the defensive end, but overall? Even looking at their numbers from last season (Asik's best), it's not clear cut.

Stan reply to Brian on Dec 18 at 10:45

yea, There was some rumor about Hawes for Asik and the option for Houston to swap their pick with the New Orleans pick. I honestly wouldn't even use our 2nd round picks in a trade to get Asik. If Hinkie does anything ridiculous like that I will want him to be fired immediately.

I am a little worried that he could do something like and I don't know why. He may be good friends with Morey but I can't see him jeopardize his career to do him favors.

Last summer when I heard that the Sixers traded Jrue Holiday and a top 5 protected 1st round pick in 2014 for Nerlens Noel I was full of rage. Luckily it was just a false report. So I should give him the benefit of the doubt in these reports I mean Hinkie can't be that stupid, right?

I think these guys are only told fractions of the whole story and are only speculating.

The Sixers involvement seems to be simple to me. The Rockets want Hawes and the Sixers want a first rounder for him. So the Rockets are shopping Asik for a first rounder that they will relay to the Sixers. OF course other pieces would be involved but these are the main points of what the "agreed" deal between the Rockets and the Sixers are IMO. Makes too much sense.

So something like Hawes to Houston, Asik to Boston, one of the picks the Celtics got from the nets to the sixers, with a couple other minor pieces involved? That would be fine with me.

One report says that there is a discussion of a '3 way' involving the sixers and celtics but that it's 'weird' and probably won't happen

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 18 at 11:18

Enjoyable comment.

really hope we see the kendall marshall for lorenzo brown swap soon

MCW expected to play on friday

Yep, I'd say it's 55/45 they win. Keeping Turner on Joe Johnson would be a solid first step in securing the loss.

pending what happens with the asik stuff they might not have thad or hawes

True. I'm really expecting nothing to happen with the Sixers. Think Hinkie is just helping his idol create a false market.

I think Hinkie will be involved but only if the deal works for the sixers - he's not going to make a bad deal - he's going to make a smart deal if he makes a deal at all - if he doesn't make one now - i believe there will be at least 1, probably 2, trades the sixers are involved in before Feb 15

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 18 at 16:40

I don't know. It's a little weird, isn't it? If it's so obvious to us that we wouldn't want a huge defensive upgrade (who plays the same position as our top pick in this year's draft) when we're trying to tank, why would other GM's be fooled? Why are Stein and Windhorst and the others who report on this? Perhaps there really is a three-team deal. In theory it makes a lot of sense that there would be. We would like to move Hawes or even Thad for a prospect or picks. Houston would like someone who can contribute now, like Hawes or Thad, both of whom make sense there. There's some third team out there who wants Asik, but they don't have anyone who can help Houston in the playoffs - they just have things Houston doesn't want as much, i.e. the picks we do want, or maybe the prospect.

Hinkie has earned my trust in his actions and the interviews I've seen. Brian, you (and I) have been concerned about the value of our pick, but notice MCW has been out, talk is Noel may not play this season, and the team forgot to contest threes.

I don't see Hinkie giving up picks or valued players for Asik in an obvious tanking season. If Boston wants to be the 3rd eastern seed, by all means go ahead. We'll see tomorrow, I guess.

The most recent 'rumors' from a variety of folk is that Boston and Houston are close - haggling over value of a first round pick - though will see tonight if Bass and Lee play

Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 18 at 19:21

I'll be really happy if this is true. This takes Boston away from the Wiggins sweepstakes and it doesn't make them a championship contender either. Best case scenario they sign Kevin Love in 2015 and have an Asik/Love/Green/Bradley/Rondo lineup. They could sign Loul Deng this summer as well.

Bass in the starting line up for celtics so wouldn't get your hopes up too high

Celts can't have Love. I called dibs. Also, don't count the Celts out as tankers, that roster is not good and you know Romdo is going to kill the chemistry when he gets back.


Anthony Davis back tonight

Two to four weeks early. Breaks his hand, comes back 17 days later. Has a huge game too.

Not a very good night for our lottery standings, overall. SAC, ORL, MIL all lose. Milwaukee has also decided to start Giannis going forward, which gives you an idea of their plans for the rest of the season. I'm not even sure that makes sense from a player development perspective.

shocked the team let him come back that quickly. not good for the Sixers at all. Jrue has really picked up his play recently as well.

the knicks still won but this bargnani play is hilarious


That's hilarious. Like something Dalembert would've done back in the day.

Matt68 reply to sixerfan1220 on Dec 19 at 10:24

I think I'm in the minority, but I wish NBA divisions meant more - similar to the NFL. If we played something like a third of our games within the division, we'd have a very bright future.

I actually looked at it a few years ago and the NBA has the lowest percentage of division games on its schedule versus any of the major sports (and the NHL). I realize they don't want to reduce the number of games - but I think there's an easier solution.

2 games (Home and Home) against every other division, 8 games against each time in your division. That's still 82 games (I think), and 39% of your games are division games. (37.5% in the NFL, 47% in the MLB I think). You still get your 82 games - you still get your 'marquee players' once a year - it seems a pretty simple fix - and oh yeah - travel and stupid back to backs are not as bad

And the problem with uneven conferences/divisions/schedules would become even bigger...

And if people understood the word 'cyclical' they wouldn't have a knee jerk reaction after a season or two, but hey - you know.

Balanced schedules suck, they always have...

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 19 at 11:18

Why do you want to increase intra-division play? I want to just junk the divisions. Not just because of this season.

I'm partial to divisions.

Actually, I'm really against the way the NBA does seeding and playoffs. I'm not a fan of extending the series out so long, I don't think the playoffs should necessarily be about throwing lesser teams to the wolves in long series and giving the best team every advantage to win it all. Think series should be shorter, there should be more chance, more opportunities for upsets. You should get an advantage for winning your division and you should get an advantage for winning your conference, and the best team should have homecourt throughout.

Divisions build rivalries, and I like rivalries.

Think series should be shorter, there should be more chance, more opportunities for upsets.

Except that that's kind of contrary to the concept of the best team 'should' win. I mean in general playoffs aren't always the best barometer of who the best team is over the season (see the undefeated patriots against the giants) but I think the better team over the long regular season should be given the best chance to win (It's why i don't like the 2-3-2 series set up personally)

I agree with you on rivalries, and honestly, I think playoff matchups are more exciting if you haven't played a lot of games against that team in the season, I think my set up does both of them. Plus I bet it makes travel easier

Yeah, I was saying I think the deck is stacked too much for the best teams. There should be some chance involved in the playoffs. Makes things more interesting. I'd go as far as making the first round 3 games, second round 5 games, then 7 for the conference finals and finals. I also prefer the 2-3-2 format for a 7-game series.

Well I think 2-3-2 is more than enough advantage for the under dogs. I don't think giving the 8 seed such '3 game' advantage in the first round seems fair to the team that puts together the best record in the conference and has to face a team squeaking in.

Injuries, hot streaks, bad matchups, there's enough luck inherent in the playoffs I don't think tilting it towards dumb luck is a good idea. You're supposed to identify the best team overall in the playoffs.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 19 at 12:09

I entirely agree. The NBA is my favorite sport in part because the playoffs typically identify who the best team is. In no other sport can you watch the playoffs and come away thinking that the playoffs necessarily proved who was best. In the NBA, the playoffs actually answer the questions people debate during the regular season.

Eh. I don't see the playoffs as that. I see them as which team can perform under pressure the best. I like the heightened importance and the feeling that anything can happen, david can beat goliath. You don't have any of that drama in the NBA, and it gets boring. I don't even watch the playoffs unless the Sixers are in it.

Stan reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 13:41

The conference finals and the NBA finals are very entertaining. Everything else is usually not worth watching. The NBA is star driven. A sports league shouldn't have more than half the teams make the playoffs and there doesn't need to be a 7 game series. But in the NBA a shitty team like Milwaukee will fill a bunch of their seats because fans will come in to watch Lebron and Wade play. I just don't see any change happening.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 14:53

Yeah, I would hate the NBA if anything could happen. The playoffs would cease to mean much to me. That said, a playoff system where superior teams typically win isn't necessarily a drama-free playoff system. The Finals were really dramatic, but because they were two evenly matched teams, not because anything could happen.

Take last seasons's playoffs, would 3, 5, 7, 7 have changed the outcome of any series? Don't know, just curious.

Clippers would've beaten Memphis in the first round (you could argue they were the better team, too).

Yep, that's the only series that would've gone the other way.

I think everything mentioned above that in various ways improves the chance that upsets will happen, will make the regular season worthless. Which would be terrible.

If anything they need to figure out a way to make the regular season more important (and interesting for fans) AND find a way to have only the best teams in the playoffs.

P.S. One way to make sure everyone takes the regular season seriously - skip the first round entirely. Have only 8 teams in the playoffs instead of 16. It can cause other undesirable side effects though such as a lot of teams tanking because they know they can't make the playoffs.

No changes that take money out of owners pockets is going to happen - eliminating the number of teams in the playoffs eliminates the number of home games - never happen.

I agree on that. But they still need to figure out a way to make the regular season matter more not less.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 16:54

I'm sure it would have changed some series, yeah. I think there were some series where teams came back from down 2-1.

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 12:06

The problem is, there are so few historical rivalries inside divisions, the divisions are fairly new and no one cares about them (a lot of fans couldn't name which division their own team is in, much less tell you where, say, the Pelicans are), and some of the better rivalries around are inter-division or even inter-conference. If you increased division play, you'd make divisions more meaningful, but in the many seasons it would take for people to start caring about these artificially created rivalries, you'd just have us playing a ton of games against mediocre teams we don't care about. Also, the obvious problems this year illustrates - every year there are some terrible divisions (yeah, it's cyclical, but there's always a really bad one somewhere), the winners of those divisions are rewarded in a way that's extremely disproportional to how good their team is, then they stink in the playoffs, etc.

Pretty much the reason why Bargnani never amounted to anything. His "softness" was never the biggest issue.

On a sort of game-theoretical note, what explains how slow all of the tanking teams have been to make moves to tank? We saw Toronto try to move Lowry a week ago, which would have killed their team, but that seems to have fizzled out. We're doing nothing, Orlando's doing nothing, Milwaukee has a vet or two it could move, Sacramento tried to get better in two consecutive trades. Supposedly, the demand for players like Afflalo and Hawes and Lowry increases as the deadline nears (although by then more teams will be out of contention, they might not be playing so well, etc.). But you'd think that one of the tanking teams would want to get ahead of the others by blowing things up early; if you're Orlando and you move Afflalo now, his increase in value by February would seem to be offset by the 12-game losing streak they could mount without him while we're waiting for the deadline to come - although if they move, they might force us and other teams to move and be no better off. Yet no one has blown a hole in their roster, at least not yet. It's sort of a prisoner's dilemma; if we all sit tight until the deadline, we'll all get a nice payoff, if one of the teams defects, they get a big payoff if no one else defects, but if everyone defects in response we're all in a worse position, with a poor return for our players and no tanking advantage as compared to everyone else. As I recall psychological research on the prisoner's dilemma, usually people will defect, so it's a little strange that we're all sitting tight.

Don't think this is the case in Philly, but a lot of these teams have owners who want/need to make money with their team. Orlando just opened a new arena, they want get as many butts in seats as they can. Sacramento is trying to win.

The Sixers are in a unique situation, imo. Not all owners will green light a plan that basically drives fans away in droves.

None of this explains why the Sixers haven't made a move yet. Maybe no one wants their players?

it seems like the rockets want thad or hawes so maybe the sixers are asking for too much(which they should be doing)

What I've read is the rockets want Hawes AND a future first - a future first is the sticking point in most discussions according to all reports - they are not going to move Asik without one - and the sixers should hang up on anyone who asks for a future draft pick unless they're getting a quality player on a rookie deal (would you give up a future first for MKC?)


you mean MKG right?

and no i wouldnt

yeah him :)

No, I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't give up any kind of pick for Asik, first or otherwise.

Well I woudln't give up a pick for Asik either - other teams might

What's fascinating to me right now if the Celtics do this Asik trade to keep him is that Danny Ainge has forgotten HOW he built that one title team

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 15:00

Sacramento is trying to win. Orlando will trade Afflalo at some point closer to the deadline, when teams start looking for that one player to put them over the top. If they want fans to come, a top pick's going to help a lot more with that than 30 wins. As for us, we're losing pretty well with the guys we've got and will probably also wait until there's more demand for one or two of them. But it surprises me that teams are more interested in waiting for a good deal than in getting a jump on the other tankers.

It's very rare that you see teams making trades this early into the season. Noone truly tanks before February. This year is already an exception as we've seen some tank type deals already (The Sixers offseason, Gortat trade, Gay trade - even if it makes them better in the short term).

Also, i don't think there is a lack of motivated sellers. The problem is, this year appears to be a strong buyers market. The great draft class and the increased understanding by the teams that tanking can be valuable have created a lot of sellers, whereas the new CBA and harsh luxury tax is scaring good teams from taking salary and losing cheap rookie contracts. And it's not really a secret that every single one of these teams trying to unload their players want picks (or prospects early in their rookie contracts) in return.

My point is, teams like OKC, Houston, San Antonio, Miami, LAC, Portland, Golden State and Indiana should be offering some picks and prospects for players that can help them win a title this year. Instead you get Houston, who reportedly WANTS a draft pick, OKC and San Antonio who have always been notorious when it comes to trading away picks, and some of the others already owe picks and can't afford to trade more.

It's a difficult situation, but someone will still find a way to get a good deal out of all this mess. Hopefully, it will be Hinkie :)

Not all owners will green light a plan that basically drives fans away in droves.

Only the good ones who know that if you build a title team - they'll come back in bigger droves :)

Thank god Harris isn't like Jerry Jones - I couldn't handle that nonsense.

I think the 'desperation' that some fans have to make a move right away is silly. The sixers are losing quite well, and they do have at least 2 players that appeal to teams, and they also have until the 20th of February (so Houston has an extra day) to optimize. Sure some would like to see Evan Turner gone right away - but Sam Hinkie doesn't care what you want

Well, you've also got the fans who have grown old while their teams toiled in the lottery. It's not like it's a given that this plan of Hinkie's is going to work.

True - not a given that Hinkie's plan would work, but I'm pretty sure it was a given that if the 'plan' of the past 11 years continued the sixers would continue to be stuck in mediocrity, and for some people - I get that that's enough - but my theory on sports ownership has always been - if you're not trying to figure out a way to win a championship - you should sell your team to someone who will - I understand that owners have a right to make money but they have a 'public trust covenant' type thing that they should take into account - and too many owners don't (or they do but have no idea HOW to do it, Dolan, Jones, Snyder - it's awesome to me how some of the WORST sports owners are in the same divisions as the teams I love)

Yeah, I get the logic, but not every owner is willing to take the chance on an empty arena for a decade. If they were, you'd have about five teams really going for it every year, and every other team tripping over itself to lose as many games as possible.

I don't think that's truly correct - to me 'tanking' isn't an every year kind of thing - tanking for lebron - that makes sense - tanking for john wall - that doesn't make sense - i think there are stupid risks and calculated one - this is a calculated risk where yo ucan try and tilt the odds in your favor - which I think Hinkie is doing his best to do so that's why I don't worry about him giving up a pick in a trade - he won't -

I think that there are less smart owners in professional sports than you think - and as the yankees and lakers are showing - it ain't genetic

I'm not making excuses for those ownership groups, but there's a very good point there. Those are the two franchises w/ the most lucrative TV deals. Now say they decide to just completely tank. Not only do they have empty stadiums all year, they also lose all their ratings on TV, which is how much lost revenue?

I also completely disagree that this is a calculated tank. If Hinkie came in last year w/ a shit draft class, he would've tanked. And he'll tank again next year if he doesn't get his superstar (or even if he does).

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I get it. You want to build something of your own, start from scratch. Too early to say if it's better or worse than any other plan, though. You can turn your nose up at the past half decade (since BK), but we won't know until 4.5 years from now whether Hinkie's approach was any better. We got some fun playoff basketball to watch, and a competitive team for the majority of those five years. If Hinkie's plan fails, all we're going to get out of these five years is pitiful basketball and an ever dwindling fan base.

I absolutely don't think this wasn't a calculate tank. He wouldn't have tanked last year IMO. Hinkie understands better than anyone that you can create assets and have a solid team without having top picks. And high picks in a bad year isn't really maximizing your assets and situation. You are far better off finding undervalued players in free agency singing them to nice deals and maximize the value of everyone by showing you can win with these players.

This year's draft makes all the difference. I seriously doubt Hinkie would've tanked like this otherwise.

The lakers tv deal runs for 20 years - it's already set - and they can't be mediocre in LA - if they aren't at the top - people will stop showing up - those tv deals give them MORE money to spend, (hence the problem with revenue sharing in both sports)...a few down years followed by years of championship contention will do more for a team like the lakers or yankees than chronic mediocrity - because even when they're mediocre the lakers and yankees are still 'big names' - but when they're winning they can basically print money in terms of ticket costs and ancillary stuff

Seems like the great and powerful morey failed


Stan reply to GoSixers on Dec 19 at 15:28

"Who's the smart guy now, Morey?"

I love how fans from the 29 other teams are gloating over this. Morey tried to market Asik as this great defensive franchise center and there's probably a collective sigh of relief from each fan base that their teams didn't get hosed in a trade.

He is a very good defensive center

He's just going to be paid 15 million next year (but only counts 8.4 against the cap) and teams don't want to pay him 15 million (only 8.4 against the cap). Which, if you think he's the guy who makes the difference in something - is kind of silly...

@Lakers: Injury Update: Kobe Bryant has a fracture of the lateral tibial plateau in his left knee. Expected to miss six weeks

i love popovich, spurs are on TNT tonight by the way

@ESPNSteinLine Spurs just announced Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili are being rested tonight against Golden State ... with Tony Parker (shin) still out, too

Did't the league fine him for that last year?

yea he did it vs MIA

Notice no one has complained that the Heat hold out Wade to maintain his health

LB reports that Thad has asked for a trade weeks ago. He doesn't want to waste his prime on a tanking team. Can't say i disagree with him even though he's been my favorite Sixer since he was drafted.

There was an article excerpted yesterday about how Thad was going at Coach Brown after a scrimmage in practice. Seems that the coach asked Thad to stop complaining to the refs, during a scrimmage, and for some reason Thad took umbrage?


Not really sure how i feel about this

1. Thaddeus Young has never played on a contender
2. "I'm used to playing with guys who are four-five year veterans in the league". "They could play". Hey Thad - you were a rookie once too - maybe instead of being a whiny little baby you could realize it's your turn to take a leadership role on a younger franchise and help these guys adjust to the NBA the way i'm sure you were helped when you were a useless rookie (as he is implying the other younger players are)

I also think he has an over inflated sense of how important he is to a team that wants to win a title...

I don't blame him one bit. He's just coming into his prime and they systematically dismantle the team around him. Now he's playing with a bunch of guys who belong in the d-league and Turner, who isn't even athletic enough for the d-league. I'd want out as fast as possible. And I'd probably blow up if I got yelled at for harping on the refs when that's the only true skill Turner has displayed, and he displays it nightly with no consequences.

I know everyone is on board with hinkie's plan and the job Brown has done so far, but don't lose sight of the fact that this an abortion of a team with a bunch of losers who will be out of the league in 18 months playing major minutes.

You don't know that Turner hasn't been lectured about talking to the refs during a scrimmage. Maybe he just didn't pout about it front of the media.

His public comments are whiny,and maybe if he were better in the prime of his career the sixers wouldn't have had to rebuild in the first place. Doesn't sound like a guy who as one of the vets on the team is taking a leadership role - he is now one of those guys he's referring to

Tray reply to Brian on Dec 19 at 21:33

No problem here either. Just wish he wanted to stick around.

Michael Carter-Williams is in the top 15 in jersey sales. Can't believe people are buying the jerseys of someone on this sorry ass team.

Must be the market.

"Hey Kevin Love, could you imagine the number of jersey you'd sell if you came to Philly?"

That's really shocking...

I'd love to see the regionality report on those sales - I bet tons of those are from upstate new york :

Big college prospect game on tonight. ULCA vs. Duke. I was thinking about heading over to MSG but really no one punting on tickets.

I have been big on Lavine since I saw his highlights a couple weeks ago; it really seems like he is gaining traction. He seems to have a Kevin Martin-esque ability to release the shot.

I have heard mixed things on his athleticism. That may seem crazy when you look at his highlights and assume he can jump out of a gym, but I have heard some questions on how he will translate to the guard positon in the pro's. Either way, a backcourt of him and MCW sounds amazing.

Duke: Parker + Hood
ULCA: Lavine + Adams + Anderson

Lots of offense on the court. Should be a good one.

Rusty reply to Rusty on Dec 19 at 20:05

Lavine showing off the hops on a fast break and then draining a 3 on a curl. Very smooth offensively, but can be stationery. I have to imagine that Brown would teach the movement off the ball, and he seems to have the ability to knock down shots with off the ball movement.

Defense has left something to be desire. He is long but lethargic in my view. And definitely is leaking/cherry picking for those big slams.

Jabari continues to look like Jabari. Someone is going to draft a great scorer next year when they take him.

Kendall Marshall is going to the Lakers

Libertyballers had a nice piece on prospects and stats today. In it they noted that Randle has 0.1 steals a game - a single steal all year. I thought I'd go on draftexpress and see if any good players have ever stole the ball at such a low rate in college. I may be forgetting about some second-rounders but as far as NBA players or guys with names I even remember, this is who I found with 0.5 steals or less, per minute/pace adjusted. (That's five times better than Randle.) As you'll see there's some precedent for NBA success when you get to about 0.4, but just one player who's ever even been drafted with a season at 0.2 or less, and a fair number of busts/stiffs.

2001-02 season: Marcus Haislip (0.5, lottery pick in 2002 draft who lasted three seasons in the league)

2002-03 season: Ike Diogu (0.3, lottery pick, Pac-10 Player of the Year, now with the Bakersfield Jam after some years in China), Maurice Ager (0.5, late first-rounder in the '06 draft out of MSU, played way out of league in 4 years), Earl Barron (0.5, third-string center), Steve Novak (0.5)

2003-04 season: Cartier Martin (0.4, improved to 0.9 the next season), Ike Diogu (0.5)

2004-05 season: Ryan Hollins (0.0, accomplished collegiate high jumper whose athleticism doesn't seem to translate to the court in any productive way), Justin Williams (0.4, went undrafted, couple short stints in the league, known for his shot-blocking), Ronny Turiaf (0.5), Chris Copeland (0.5, averaged 0.8 steals the next year)

2005-06 season: Ryan Hollins (0.4), Roy Hibbert (0.5), Aron Baynes (0.5), Josh Boone (23rd pick in 2006 draft, out of league in four years)

2006-07 season: Robin Lopez (0.3, improved to 0.6 next year), Hasheem Thabeet (0.3, bust), Aron Baynes (0.4), Brandon Rush (0.5, bust)

2007-08 season: Hasheem Thabeet (0.3), DeAndre Jordan (0.4), Brian Roberts (0.4, nice backup point for Pelicans), Gal Mekel (0.4, rarely used rookie for the Mavs by way of Wichita State/Maccabi Tel Aviv)

2008-09 season: Aron Baynes (0.4), Lavoy Allen (0.5)

2009-10 season: Andrew Nicholson (0.3, solid second-year reserve for the Magic, steals increased to 0.7 by last year of college), Justin Hamilton (0.5, mid-second-rounder, now in D-League), Mike Muscala (0.5, second-rounder, now in Europe)

2010-11 season: Tony Snell in his freshman year (0.3, subpar rookie for the Bulls right now, steals increased to 0.8 a game by junior year), Mike Scott (0.4, second-rounder, currently a deep reserve for the Hawks, averaged 0.6 steals or more in all other seasons of his college career), Doug McDermott (0.4).

2011-12: Doug McDermott (0.2), Alex Len (0.3), Greg Smith (0.5, D-Leaguer turned deep reserve for the Rockets), Rodney Hood (0.5, probable first-rounder this year).

2012-13: Alex Len/Doug McDermott (0.3), Isaiah Austin (0.4)

no KG tonight(rest) and joe johnson is a GTD(personal reasons)

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