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Subtraction By Addition

Court_visioN on Jan 2 at 11:31

Hollis Thompson was battling foul trouble all night, hence the reduced minutes.

like to see mcw posting up thomas some tonight

This is true most nights. They wound up putting Chandler on him later in the game last night, wonder if we'll see more of that, or if Shaw just finally realized Lawson is useless on the defensive end.

As this site's biggest Cousins booster, I just want to say that I don't know how long this efficiency will last. Cousins's shot selection has improved a bit - this year 68% of his shots are at the rim as opposed to last year's 62.5%. Long twos are down from 25% to 19%. He's cut threes out almost completely, not that he ever took many of them. But the other thing that's going on here is vastly improved midrange shooting. If you look at Cousins's shotchart, he's shooting 48% on straightaway long twos, 44% from the left wing, and 40% from the right wing. Last year he shot 29, 43, and 26 percent from those areas. He's also shooting 47% from the left corner on in-between shots, i.e. shots from 8-16 feet. I'm not sure how much longer Cousins can continue to be a well-above-league-average midrange shooter.

I think in any other year this Sixers team would be headed to 15 wins or less. They have such marginal talent, but somehow they already 10 wins. I'm not sure how to rank these factors:

1. Good coaching at least on the offensive side of the ball. All they are asked to do is run, shoot open 3's or drive. Really simple plan works well given lack of talent/experience to execute.
-This should lead to further improvement. Imagine if they learn the defensive scheme (or had a rim protector)?

2. MCW is surprisingly NBA ready. His numbers may be inflated, bt he has doe a lot to both keep them in games as well as stepping up late in several close games. 9-11 with and 1-10 without is startling. He obviously has a lot to work on, but still...
-Should just get better

3. Hawes and Turner are somehow net positives on most nights. Not sure if it is due to being a contract year, a simplification of what is being asked of them or just growth in their games. It is funny how these two killed the Sixers before but are now among their best players. I guess good enough to get a few wins, not good enough to be winners. Sounds like the exact type of player you want gone.
-I don't think they will regress (since both have already regressed a bit.)

4. The league is brutal this year. Injuries, tanking, conference imbalance all combine to make every other game a winnable game even for a bad team. The Sixers might be something like 13-18 and a "playoff team" right now had MCW not missed a third of the season.
-This will if anything get worse. The Sixers might counter this through trades, but I don't see a promising trade market. Ironically, it might be easier for the Sixers to be a buyer and make the playoffs then to get reasonable value as a seller.

5. A bit of luck given the 4-1 O.T. record. 2-3 would have them at their "expected W-L" based on score differential.
-I guess this will regress to the expected. But I also expect the team to play better as the year goes on unless there are trades.

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 2 at 21:23

I would also add that you just can't count on Nets/Knicks improvement, even though they have no reason to tank.

Sacramento sounds like a great place to send Evan Turner.

It really does.

Posted this over on the other thread:

In terms of getting worse, I think unloading Hawes is the first logical move. The three-point shooting has been a revelation, and has made him crucial to this team's (relative) success. Replace him with Lavoy and Davies and I think this team gets much worse.

Hawes should have value on his own to contenders as a third big, but if his value is maximized in a deal where he's packaged with Thad, then by all means get it done. I'd love to hold onto Thad (especially now that he's starting to shoot threes), but I understand that getting a high pick is the ultimate goal here.

It's crazy that a healthy Thad, MCW, and Hawes are good enough to be considerably better than the worst team in the league. I didn't see that coming heading into the year.

Stan reply to Rich on Jan 2 at 16:32

They were the 2nd best lottery team last year. All they did this year was hire Brett Brown and replace Jrue with MCW.

I wonder how much in return the Sixers can get for Thad, Turner, and Hawes. Honestly I don't think the Sixers should trade Thad unless they can get a 1st round pick or a really good young player like Terrence Ross, Otto Porter or MKG.

As for Hawes or Turner, I'm thinking something like a bunch of 2nd round picks along with a player like a Shane Larkin or Jimmer.

They also pumped their pace and stopped playing D.

anomiemnemonical reply to Stan on Jan 2 at 22:25

Not trading ET after the first 10 games or so = *poof* there goes his value. And to add injury to insult we notched a handful of ugly wins while watching Turner's value evaporate. Same thing is happening with Spencer more or less. If Hinkie's plan is to tank this season into some warped abyss of basketball ineptitude then he needs to commit to his own strategy and do this 100% full out.

Why not cut the foreplay here and just utterly incapacitate this roster by trading Thad and Spence this weekend literally? At least before Spencer's inevitable meltdown which is coming like a week from now I'm sure.
This year's team makes me think of a botched mercy killing or something. Like Hinkie is an 11 year old who's on a hunting trip without uncle Morey for the first time ever and the deer he just shot through the neck is inexplicably still trotting around bleeding everywhere while a wide-eyed Hinkie looks on with a baffled expression on his face.

Thad is playing his best bball ever right now and his
value is pretty much omni-applicable around the league. Why not OKC with any two of PJ3, Lamb, Reggie Jackson, Adams, draft pick, whatever; combination coming back? If Presti says no then just keep whittling it down till he bites; take back Perk, offer to swap 2nd rounders, I.e. anything to sever all foreseeable means of winning and to put this crippled deer out of its misery before it runs off and wins us more basketball games, thereby effing up our draft position before dying all the same in the end.

This season is 10x worse than 'mediocrity'. Watching this team play excites me about as much as plunging a toilet at this point, but the least Hinkie can do while tanking is to do a better-than-mediocre job of tanking. Maybe I'm being too cynical but I can already imagine the 5th worst record, then pick #7, followed by a new era of Sixers bball known as "pseudo-mediocrity" - all to the chorus of Hinkie apologists making the same old "so what if it didn't work? It was still the right thing to do at the time" excuses ad nauseam. Just replace the Bynum trade with the Holiday trade as the subject of the excuse, everything else stays the same.

I completely disagree with your summation. There's at least some satisfaction to be found in a perfect plunge, where you get it just right on the first shot.

anomiemnemonical reply to Brian on Jan 3 at 1:27

I'd agree if only this was a perfect plunge, except they're roughly the same distance from making the playoffs as they are from having the worst record

tk76 reply to Rich on Jan 2 at 18:04

I would not have believed it either, but it appears to be the case (for the reasons lustered above.)

the magic were up 9 with 50 seconds left and 7 with 13 seconds and the game is now headed to OT vs the kyrie less cavs

and they lost in OT

Fouled the 3 point shooter, 5 second inbounds turnover, and two missed FTs. All of that in 13 seconds. Wow that's pathetic.

Knicks are winning. Anyone think they're really going to hang around the bottom all year, though?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 21:54

I think they'll always have a bad defense. Their offense may improve because J.R. Smith has been really awful this year.

Isn't that more in line with his career than him playing decently last year? I should probably look up his numbers over his career.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:18

Yeah, no. Smith had a lot of good years with the Nuggets - better than last year, in fact. I'm not exactly sure why last year was billed as the year where it all came together, all that seems to have changed was that he took more shots that season than he ever had before. Anyway, this year he has a .454 TS%. That doesn't completely explain their falling from 3rd in offense to 21st, though; some other differences are the losses of Copeland, Novak and Kidd, and some major regression from Felton.

I haven't seen them yet. Is Felton back in lockout shape (round)?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:22

That's what I've read.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:03

I'm expecting a blowout tonight. By the Kings.

love when hawes goes back to Sacramento and they boo him every time he touches the ball

no way they are consistent calling that all game

Cousins w/ a superb start. I take it Hawes lost the tip.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:12

He did.

Cousins to the line.

Hawes is getting REALLY lazy on the defensive end. i've noticed that over the past couple of games.

Cousins with some spectacular defense.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:13

Great job Spence, great job. That looked like Sammy's hands there on that pass.

mcw bucket

2 no called travels on cousins

Cousins with a sick challenge on some running slop from Turner.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:15

Hawes with an airball hook.

Gay wasting my time...and possessions.

bad shot mcw

I love listening to other teams' announcers talk about Turner.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:16

Terrible pullup 3 from MCW. Way too early in the clock.

That was off Gay after the blown dunk. Useless. Well, at least he turned over the inbound pass.

nice handle, Turner.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:17

Turner with a way too early pullup from 17.

Maybe Turner should try jumping when he's at the rim. Especially when he's uncontested. This is a win, btw.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:19

Why you think that?

Because, that's the worst thing that could happen today to the Sixers, and that seems to be the trend for the past decade or so.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:21

Makes sense.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:18

Hawes is soooo soft.

et hook shot?

cant cheat that much mcw

Shitty, lazy, late, stupid double.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:22

I've noticed if Spencer doesn't make his 3's, he always comes up short. Never seems to be long on any of them.

It's either a swish or on the front rim. You're right.

Rudy and Cousins "kidding around" about cherry picking a hoop. That will turn into a punch before the end of the season, guaranteed.

good d leads to a shot clock violation

Nice D, Sacto.

lavoy putback

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:30

Sloppy executed fast break ends in an and-one for Wroten.

Wroten is so perfect for this "who gives a shit" system.

Why did Cousins come out so early?

Wroten definitely shoots freebies like he belongs on this squad.

Nets beat the Thunder at OKC. On a Joe Johnson game-winner as time expired.

wroten 3

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:33

Wroten 3. Swish.

anderson 3

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:34

Anderson 3.

up 5 end of the 1st

Brandon Davies showing excellent awareness along with a boatload of skill.

30-25 after 1.

is 25 the fewest points they've allowed in the first quarter this season?

held the heat to 14 on opening night

Who on the floor right now for the Sixers legitimately belongs in the NBA?

Like, I mean if there wasn't this strange experiment of shitty hoops being carried out on Sixers fans, which one would be in the league?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:41

Definitely Wroten, then maybe Anderson.

Really? You think in a real system, for a team that cares about winning he'd be playing? I don't. Anderson is such trash. One good game all year.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:45

Well, now you've gotten more specific. At first you didn't ask that. Agree Anderson is near garbage, but he can easily be a 12th or 13th guy. But I really think Wroten has a place in the league. I mean, you have Norris Cole and the like that are around. Wroten isn't a bad 10-12 minute a night guy as a 8th or 9th man.

Eh. Maybe. Usually teams like their 8th or 9th man to be able to hit a shot outside of 2 feet away from the rim. At least if they're guards.

Orton can dunk?

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 22:51

There are a few players like him on teams that care about winning. The Pacers have Rasual Butler, for example. Ten seasons in the league, career .399 field goal percentage. Spent last year in the D-League; before that, he shot 31% and 33% in his two last NBA seasons. He had a nice year in the D-League and now he's on the very end of the Pacers bench.

Lavoy Allen is making like 4x the minimum salary. Think about that for a second.

Daniel Orton coming in for Lavoy. Still not a legit NBA player in blue on the floor.

orton and hawes together

I don't even know #25's first name.

One of those late-season replacement scrubs was named Lorenzo, not sure if that's him.


Cousins complains about a lane violation while at the line. Then bricks the freebie. Classic.

Wroten shooting jumpers. Hilarious.

Spence is complaining about delay of game.

good backtip by orton

wroten drive

iso wroten on jimmer every play

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:47

MCW forces a bad one in the lane.

How bad of a pass was that that it couldn't get over Turner?

Cousins with the most blatant goaltend ever. Sammy would be proud...actually, maybe he learned that from Sammy.

et forced a t on cousins

T on Cousins. He's so mature.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:49

It really is puzzling to me and I'm curious as heck to know why Orton stopped getting minutes. I mean, they are trotting out Davies to help with the tank and Orton isn't going to move the needle much more than him. Really wonder why he fell out of the rotation.

Cousins and Turner having a dust up. Heh. Tech on Demarcus.

dude - Demarcus is a freaking liability

sad to say about the sixers, but these two teams match up really well. good game.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:51

I love how Demarcus plays coy with his facial expression when the ref runs in to break it up and T's him up. That's funny.

The Kings announcer is talking about how much better Gay makes the team.

sissy and 1

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:53

Hawes front-rims another 3.

wroten to the line

split them

woops made both

sf1220, i really have to hand it to you for watching so much of this slop. I find it so hard to stomach.

Love Wroten's game.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 22:59

Does Cousins have more lift than Turner?

nice pass by mcw to orton

Knicks eke out a road win over the Spurs, in spite of Belinelli's 32 points.

mcw steal and thad finish

this game is entertaining as hail, Brian!

cousins gets bailed out

Cousins is really bad. Like tough to watch. Turner should go to Sacto.

that looked all ball by et

thompson 3!

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:05

Hollis 3. They're flirting with another 60 pt half.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:07

Turner airballs a 3. Heh. Cousins leakout after it. Typical.

Heh. Andre Miller was suspended by the Nuggets after getting into an argument with his idiot head coach who didn't play him a single minute against the Sixers.

his first dnp-cd EVER

Ever? Really?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 23:08

Arguing over that? Or something else tonight?

Miller got into an argument with head coach Brian Shaw after Wednesday's game, and this two game suspension seems to be the result. Miller may have been upset about not playing at all in the team's loss to the Sixers that night. Regardless of the reasoning, Miller will not be able to return until the team hosts Boston next Tuesday.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 23:13

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6h

Miller cursed at Denver coach Brian Shaw on the bench on Wednesday night. He was kept away from the team today.

He was probably telling Shaw he sucks just as much as a coach as he did as a player. Maybe more.

orton block!

et turnover

ahem. Turnerover.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:08

Sacto announcers: "Boy, Turner's shot is terrible. He just can't shoot can he"

thad and 1

Thad +1.

bad shot by thad but it goes in

Gay goes into hero mode as soon as Cousins goes to the bench. First he shoots over a double team (actually hits it), then he tries to take Thad off the dribble and turns it over.

Bucks lose to Utah by 9. Giannis's seemingly modest line (10, 7, 5, a block) has only been set at a younger age by T-Mac and LeBron.

Davies in to do 14.2 seconds worth of damage.

up 10 at the half

i have no idea how

showtime sixers drop 61 at half.

61-51 at the half.

told you guys this was a win. Take your time, Hinkie.

That's all for me, folks. Have to shovel out and catch a train in the morning. Enjoy the rest of the win.

mcw splits the ft

4 on hawes

et blocked

4 on cousins

bad shot mcw

4 on mcw

thad 3!

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:36

Thad 3.

et to thad

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:40

Way off base on that earlier expectation. Go Sixers!!

according to the Kings commentators, Gay is "taking over"

Wroten sure is an exciting player!!

thad to the line

thad is awesome

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:51

Heh, Thad handling on the break and underhand dishing! You go boy!

lavoy long 2

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:54

Anderson bricks a 3 on the other side of the rim off the backboard.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:55

This Sacto play by play guy has called Thad 'Turner' several times tonight.

They always do that. Score?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 2 at 23:59

87-77. 30 secs left in 3rd. Wroten to the line for 2, plus a tech on Thomas so another free throw.

Sixers leading, I assume. The ice Capades always fuck us, in either direction

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:58

How was that an illegal screen on Aaron Gray? That's the 2nd time Wroten's got clocked by one.

eddies' heady's on Jan 2 at 23:58

Lavoy picks up his 5th on a make up call illegal screen.

5 fouls in about 12 mins? Attaboy Lavoy

wroten to the line

t on thomas

wroten floater

up 92-77 end of the 3rd

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:01

92-77 after a Wroten runner. 12 mins to glory or is it hell?

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:04

Like last night, first to 100 wins?

Lawler's law.

Hell. I was dozing reading a book in bed. Should've let sleep take me.

mcw should attack jimmer every play

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:05

Fredette heating up. Down to 10 again.

lol hawes

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:08

Hawes is pitiful. So weak. Spoonfed a look by MCW and flat out blows it. Fredette again, down to 8.

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:08

Hawes with his 5th foul on an illegal screen.

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:09

Cousins with a moving screen, he's pissed the fuck off too. Sure to do something stupid here in a second.

lavoy bucket

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:10

Fredette with a 3 after Cousins gets taken out. Down to 5.

Thad answers. Jimmer to the line for two.

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:11

oops Lavoy

mcw got fouled no call

thad tip in

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:12

Thad tip in. Fredette heatcheck. DWill dunk. Things are heating up.

MCW throws up some garbage type runner.

wroten to the line

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:13

BB took Wroten off Fredette that possession, put MCW on him. Turnover for Sac.

MCW at the rim. Sixers eclipsed 100 w/ 7 left.

et misses a wide open 3

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:14

Thad follow. Back up 10.

mcw cant get a call

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:15

WTF was that MCW?

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:16

Our guys are gassed. Wonder if they can hold on this last 5 mins.

these refs are a mess

et bucket

lavoy fouls out

thad young charge taken

hawes dunk dagger?

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:23

Hawes fouls out.

cousins gets away with another travel

hawes fouls out

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:24

Hawes continues to talk shit to Cousins while taking his seat on the bench. Cousins mouths some expletives back to Hawes twice.

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:25

Down to 10 again w/ just under 3 left.


eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:26

ET airballs a 3 at the buzzer.

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:29

Fredette 3. Down to 7.

orton block!

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:29

Orton with a game-saving block!!! Wow.

Can't we stash Orton in the D-League or something?

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 0:33

2 games out of the 8th seed. 2 1/2 games back of the 6th seed.

We need more lazy veterans who don't have future contracts to play for on this team.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 0:42

Long way to go, but it's going to truly be funny as shit if they wind up the 7th or 8th seed. And the reality of it all is it's very, very possible as long as MCW and Thad are out there and Turner keeps masquerading as a guy who's on his way to being one of the best in the league by his own admission.

It's not "very, very" possible; we still have been outscored by more than any team in the NBA. But picking 7th is very, very possible, so we need to make some trades, and I trust that Hinkie will.

Where does that trust come from?

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 9:41

Being outscored the most in a cumulative sense has not one iota to do with each individual game on any given night. None.

Team lineups fluctuate and change (injuries, performance, etc.) as do gameplans and adjustments made throughout the course of a game.

Hinkie seems to have an infinie rope by some around here. Where's the evidence to support that? (as mentioned by the host)

I'm very much on board with the nervousness. I do like Hinkie, but if he fails to tank properly that will change this team's outlook drastically. There's probably more contenders for the tank trophy than there are for the real one.

good work from orton tonight

eddies' heady's on Jan 3 at 0:34

Sixers win! Sixerrrrsssss winnnnnnn

3 in a row baby, out West. Look out!

won 113-104

3 in a row!

at Portland saturday

i'm loving this team!!

First time in a long time the Sixers don't have someone on the worst contracts list. Brand and Sammy would've probably made the list somewhere in their deals.

I'd argue Lavoy and Brandon Davies deserve honorable mentions, though.

Ziller wrote effusively about Hinkie for SB Nation link. Of course, he just watched the Sixers paste his Kings last night, so his viewpoint is a bit skewed. He also failed to mention that the Sixers are headed for the #9 pick if they keep this up, or worse.

Ziller probably writes with a little less bias than you do...and the sixers are currently tied for the sixth worst record in the league...and are now tied for the most craptacular point differential in the league...

They're now 10-11 when MCW plays. And they still don't hand out ping pong balls based on differential. Not sure why people keep clinging to that. It doesn't matter, not one bit. You can't unwin games at the end of the year. These all count and Hinkie is 100% failing this team right now with his inaction.

Actually, fuck the team. They're a bunch of losers anyway. He's failing the fans who have sort of signed on to endure this shit show of a season only because there's supposed to be a light at the end of the tunnel in the draft.

Or the fans are uptight and over reacting and have zero clue what's going on behind the scenes - i mean i bet he could give away hawes and young for nothing and make the team worse and then people would bitch that he didn't make good deals

The point is - they're still not good - the 'worst' record is still within reach - and there are teams currently worse than the sixers that believe they can be better and are going to try to make moves to get better.

Though with some people, no matter what they do, or don't do, they can't win

You're right, I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. All I know is they're winning too many games, and there haven't been any roster moves made to remedy that problem. And I really don't have a history of being exceedingly hard on the front office. In this case, there's an urgency because as I've said a million and one times, you can't unwin games, and you can't really make up ground when you're racing to the bottom the way you can when you're chasing a playoff berth. They're about 8 wins away from not having the worst record this year. As far as I'm concerned, getting a top three pick is the priority, not getting a good return for Hawes, or Turner, or even Thad. Holding out for a euro to stash is idiotic when they're winning 3 in a row, if that's what's happening. And anyone who would complain that they gave "valuable" pieces away for free to get worse quickly has no clue about what's going on.

People 'cling' to it because it's a pretty good predictor for the future, there's lots of games left, and we're still close to the bottom. I agree that the wins count, am concerned that we're piling up too much close wins, hope that it doesn't come back to bite us, but hope that with enough time our lack of talent will have us where we need to be.

But with MCW and Thad playing like this, it's getting hard to envision. Perhaps we underestimated the talent that we have (when healthy). I certainly underestimated the impact MCW would have, and that has me nervous, tanking wise. I'm just not sure there's the demand / interest around the league to move players right now.

Question: doesn't the league-wide reluctance to do anything to tank suggest that GM's are less wild about this draft than they were months ago? Consider that:

Orlando reportedly shoots down offers for Afflalo, even though dumping him would give them a great shot at the worst record

Cleveland is trying to trade for veterans who can help them get the 8th seed

Toronto used to be selling Lowry, but when they didn't get enough they took him off the market and now seem to be pretty into making the playoffs (they also moved Gay, which could be seen as a win-now, anti-tanking move)

LA is unwilling to move Gasol in a pure salary dump

Boston isn't moving Jeff Green or any of the other decent vets on their roster, but is planning on playing Rondo soon

Sacramento has repeatedly tried to improve their team's record this year

Milwaukee hasn't sent Larry Sanders away to an anger management clinic, but played him as soon as he got better

We remain on the sidelines and have walked out of several rumored deals.

Now, most writers seem to explain all this weird activity in the following way: some teams (LA, Cleveland, Sacramento) have owners who refuse to tank, while other teams that are willing to tank are annoyed with what a buyer's market this is, or are waiting for their players' value to increase by the trade deadline. But I think it's fair to say that if teams were as excited about Wiggins and Randle as they were a few months ago,

Tray reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 13:48

... we'd see some teams selling off their players.

Stan reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 14:51

All of the bad teams are hovering around the same record. It seems like all of the GMs are playing a game of chicken to see if they can get good value for their players. It looks as though no one is willing to part with their first round picks to get the guys you mentioned. The Knicks turned down a trade for Kyle Lowry because they didn't want to include their 1st round pick for...2018.

Tray reply to Stan on Jan 3 at 15:49

But if people were wild about Wiggins, or anyone at the top of this draft, they would dump the players I mentioned for less than the price of a first-round pick, and I think you wouldn't see so many lottery teams that are ambivalent about tanking or actively opposed to it. Toronto, for instance, had an offer on the table that would have capsized their team and given them a shot at landing the pride of Canada and the top guy in the draft, but they turned it down because it didn't include a 2018 first-rounder. So Ujiri's position was essentially that he'd move Lowry for a 2018 first-rounder, a chance at Wiggins (and a great chance at Wiggins/Parker/Randle), but he won't move Lowry if all he gets is a chance at Wiggins and a great chance at Wiggins/Parker/Randle. (And now that he's held them, his team has zoomed to .500 and it's probably too late to catch teams like Milwaukee now.) To me this suggests a fairly lukewarm valuation of the top talent in the draft.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 4 at 11:53

Regarding your mention of the valuation at the top of the draft, I've been kind of leaning a certain way for the last few weeks now. Been giving thought that we may somehow crazily be in a better position if we don't land a top pick (3 or better).

It's sort of like how we ended up taking who fell in our lap and getting it right with MCW at #11 last draft. We didn't have any pressure of making sure we took the "right" guy with a high pick which would be the case if we end up with one this year. Who do you take as a GM? Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Embiid, Gordon? The probability of blowing the pick is higher the higher the pick is, basically. Yeah, it sounds ludicrous on it's face but I'm not so sure it is.

I'm still not sold on Wiggins as this can't-miss prospect, not convinced that Parker is your franchise-type player that you build around as your cornerstone, can't get a good enough read on how Randle will translate, can't determine if Gordon will grow and flourish as a true 3-man on the next level. There's all these unknowns and uncertainties surrounding these kids for me (and you know it definitely is for the Hinkie's of the league), it actually could work out better in our (Hinkie's) favor if we do end up with, say, a #6 or #7 pick. The pressure of getting it right is somewhat mitigated and you'll take what you think is the highest upside guy left and develop him and make the best of it ala what's now occurring with MCW. Yeah, this makes it sound a bit too simple but I've been having these thoughts after seeing more of these guys on the college level.

Just don't think there's going to be this draft full of multiple "stars" like it's being pumped up to be. Most of these guys rumored to be the stuff are either wildly athletic and overdeveloped body-wise or really offensively gifted at such an immature age. Neither of those things, isolated or combined, has a guarantee of "star". Too many tangible and less-heralded intangibles are required. (Huge positive with all of them though is time is on their side being they're still pups)

This buyer's market thing is what's killing me. There has to be a number of teams who would take Spencer Hawes for nothing right now. Like literally, trade him for a hurt player, or a couple of bench warmers. Just get rid of him. Who cares what the return is? It's not like he's the sacred cow. I get that Thad is probably undervalued by the league and on a fair deal, but trade him for fucking Bynum if that's what it takes to be the worst team in the league. Thad on an OK deal isn't worth as much as Wiggins playing in Philly. I'm not kidding when I say we're headed for the #9 pick, or worse. This is a complete replete of the year they traded Iverson and everyone was so fucking psyched about their 3 first-round picks. Turned into Thad, Jason Smith and I can't even remember who else. Thad and MCW are playing the Andre Miller and Joe Smith roles this time.

buke reply to Brian on Jan 3 at 15:30

To refresh your memory, the third pick was a #30 I believe and they drafted Petri Kopponen (or something like that), a guard from Finland. They promptly traded that pick for a second rounder and I believe they drafted Derrick Byers from Vanderbilt with that one. Although he was well regarded at the time, he never played, or perhaps played negligible minutes eventually, in the NBA. They also traded their own second round draft choice for a lower pick and selected a power forward from Providence (Hill was the name I think) who showed some promise during preseason but was hurt immediately after and never played in the NBA.

In what may be a Sixers' standard for drafting futility, Billy King had 4 picks in the upper 2/3rds of the draft and managed to get only one player of lasting value from that. You'll recall that he eventually unloaded Jason Smith (along with Willie Green) for Craig Brackins and Darius Songaila. Say what you want about Willie and Smith, but those guys are still playing 6 and a half years later while Brackins was a complete bust and Songaila turned out to be very close to his expiration date at the time.

Yeah, I think I kinda liked Gasol at #30, but this is the only reference I could find to it link. Herbert Hill is the guy they got.

and just in case people think I'm full of myself, I also wrote volumes about why they should re-sign Bynum this past summer.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 4 at 12:05

"Thad on an OK deal isn't worth as much as Wiggins playing in Philly."

Why isn't he? Wiggins should be viewed with the same skepticism as Hinkie. I can't get on board with zero-ing in on any 'one' of these prospects at this point. Holes and weaknesses, which lead to concerns, are surfacing the more we're able to see of these guys moving up a level.

Not as a comparison to Wiggins or anything, but Turner (or even Wall) should be example 1 and 1a of believing these guys will assuredly become a savior. (And I'm saying this in the context of getting rid of a piece in Thad for an unknown)

The chances Thad can be the best player on a contender = 0%. Chances Wiggins can be >0%, definitely, right? I mean, maybe somewhere north of 33%? That's kind of the point of having to sit through this abortion of a season, isn't it? Not the promise of maybe accumulating a few more above average pieces.

Oh come on - you know you're talking to one of the preminent evaluators of future NBA talent there is right?

So - the eagles aren't going to win are they?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 4 at 19:39

Yeah that's supposed to be the point. Though I don't believe it'll come to fruition, for several reasons. Don't think Wiggins is your best player on a contender material. 2nd or 3rd maybe? More likely. And I don't think we're going to end up with a top 3 or 4 pick anyway. And that may end up being better in the long run. We'll be lucky to end up with another above average piece. I'll consider that a success.

Tyreke Evans and Harrison Barnes are two good examples of guys that were hyped up as the next coming while in high school, went to college and flaws were exposed knocking them down from the "star" perch, and look at each of those guys now. They were both thrown around in the same breath as the "next LeBron" (not literally of course) in their high school careers. I see Wiggins and some others in the same way.

The worst part about these wins is that it came against teams that are competing against us for ping pong balls and competing against New Orleans for seeding in the WC.

Orlando is in a really good position. They might get two lottery picks in the top 10. They get the less favorable 1st round picks from either Denver or NYK.

Is there a way to "rest" MCW and Thad without either one of them publicly voicing their displeasure? I want to keep both of them beyond this year.

If the Sixers play to their differential the rest of the season, they'll finish with 25 wins. 25 would've been a tie for fourth-worst last season.

If they win at the rate they've won so far, they'll finish with 28 wins.

If they win at the rate they've won when MCW has played, they'll finish with 35 wins.

I have a serious issue with every one of those numbers and I think a lot more people should as well.

Turner and Hawes will be traded at the trade deadline. That's how the market works. Teams are rarely interested in giving up assets for anyone unless they are pressed against the wall. And the deadline is the only time when they ARE pressed against the wall.

Sure, the recent stretch of wins has been disturbing, but i'm still not overly worried. As long as they are below 18 wins headed into the allstar break i won't be worried. And i don't think they are there yet. Actually they have less wins than i thought they'd have till this point in their schedule IIRC. I also don't think they'll win more than 4 games after the trade deadline.

P.S. More teams tanking means more wins for the worst teams in the league (someone needs to get the wins). It's unlikely we'll see a below 20 win team or more than 4-5 below 30 win teams.

Hollinger's playoff odds now have the Sixers winning 27 games and finishing with the 2nd worst record in the league (only Milwaukee is worse).

Tray reply to Xsago on Jan 3 at 15:37

Why is it imperative that we obtain assets for someone like Hawes? Why can't we live with just getting some bloated expiring deal? I really don't get potentially sacrificing top draft position - and every day we don't trade one of our vets potentially sacrifices top draft position - so that, you know, OKC gives us PJIII on top of Perkins, or Cleveland gives us Karasev on top of Bynum. No one's going to give us anyone who's actually good for him, or Turner (by good I mean someone who's played well in real NBA minutes). The thing teams are balking about giving us now that they *might* not balk about later is some fringe prospect. I don't see why we'd want to run the risk of picking 5th or worse for a fringe prospect.

buke reply to Tray on Jan 3 at 15:53

What I don't get is the single minded devotion to only one solution, i.e., a top three draft pick, and the eagerness to sacrifice all other possibilities to achieve only one of a set of probabilistic outcomes.

There's an old saying: good business is where you find it. Substitute "success" for "business" in that slogan and it would be equally as valid.

You seem like a young man without much real life experience. That's the most obvious explanation to me anyway to explain such narrow minded fanaticism.

And why give up an asset because the team might "potentially" sacrifice top draft position. The only thing the Sixers have sacrificed this season so far by not giving up Hawes and Turner for nothing is not finishing with 10-15 wins and finishing with 20-25 wins instead. Both results will are very likely to give them a bottom 2 record. Why be the worst team by 10 games when you can do it by a single game and get something out of the assets in the meantime. Sure, Hinkie is walking on a think line and it's a risky business that might backfire, but it's a process, and i think he is doing the right thing (trying to get something for Hawes and Turner). I have full confidence in the inability of a MCW/Young/a bunch of D-league level players roster to win ANY games (outside of the lucky once or twice every 15 games). And that's what's going to happen in the last 30 games of the season. As long as the team is not over 17-18 wins before the allstar break i will not panic, because it doesn't make sense to me. The team is not on it's way out of a top 5 pick IMO.

You are overrating the rest of the league this year.

Think about the game against the Lakers. Do you doubt that MCW/Thad/Wroten and who ever is on the roster cannot beat the team that LA had on the floor? Teams are hurt,tanking, whatever this year. A well coached Sixer team with MCW/Thad/Wroten will win some games and might not even be the worst team out there.

1. Actually i'm on record, that the Lakers without Kobe/Pau/Nash are a borderline D-league team and by far the worst in the league (it's a bit harsh but i hate their roster). But you can't count their stars out for the duration of the season. They'll all be back at some point. Not to mention that i seriously doubt the Lakers will make a move to get worse (outside of the inevitable attempt to get under the tax).

2. MCW and Thad can't play 5 positions nor 48 minutes per game. Despite popular belief for the contrary basketball is a team sport. Those 2 can't win games alone. And their supporting cast (without Turner and Hawes) is the worst in the league, by a mile.

3. Wroten has shown great promise and i really like him, but he hasn't exactly helped the team win. He's been a net negative over the course of the season.

4. I never said they'll lose every game. They'll figure out a way to win 3 or 4.

I am saying that the way this season is headed, they likely will play a number of teams sporting Laker-like line-ups as the season progresses. You have to measure the roster against this season and not against how the team would normally do. Between tanking, injuries and dysfunction there are so many nights were "the worst roster by a mile" will be able to win if they are well coached and healthy.

That said, if they trade ET and Hawes tomrrow then they are fine. I just contend that if they wait until the deadline they will likely not be picking in the top 5.

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 4 at 14:41

May interest you guys to know that according to nbawowy.com data, we score 1.3 pts per possession when Turner and Hawes are off the court and MCW and Thad are on. I can't find what they give up on the other end but I'm probably missing it.

What's the sample size on that though?

Don't worry so much. Even without moving any of their "powerhouse" incumbents, Sixers'll go 3-12 or 4-11 rest of the month. Thad's gotta come back to earth sometime... he good; he not dat good. Spence is starting to flatten out like Betty Crocker's Bisquick batter on a hot grill. "Turmoil" Turner will continue to shoot for numbers, guard sporadically and combust when things don't go according to his liking. Lakers, Nuggets and Kings - sorry excuses for teams. Somebody had to win those games, for want of a tighter term; to the hustlers went the spoils. I predict a strained something or other or a bruised whatchamacallit coming to the official scoresheet soon.

buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 3 at 15:44

Well said as usual!

However, the numerous comments I'm reading about Spence's regression lately seem overstated to me. While he certainly was due to decline from his early season start, his averages from the last five games are still pretty solid and would be significantly better than his career averages if extrapolated over an entire season.

Thad's averages over his last five games, of course, are like nothing we've seen over his career. Surely he will come down but maybe he and these circumstances have elevated his game over the consistently merely respectable levels of the past.

And, Turner, well, he'll probably just remain Turner. For this team right now that seems to be good enough.

And MCW has been playing lousy the last 3 games and their scrubs have not had good games.

The longer a good coach gets to coach up guys getting their first NBA experience the better they will get at playing efficient offence (run,drive or open 3) and the better semblance of team defense.

The trading deadline is a long way off. If Hinkie decides to keep ET/Hawes/Thad long term then I guess you just roll with it. But if some or all of them are not part of the long term plan then getting an extra 6+ wins (they have already won 4 of 6 with MCW back) will hurt their chances at drafting an impact player in a year that is supposed to be special.

All of this differential and expected wins stuff is based on MCW missing 1/3 the games and the team playing guys with zero NBA experience and a new coach. Why is it unreasonable to expect these guys to improve as the season goes on?

You're seein' clearly, talkin' truth on recent Hyphen play. Haven't seen it mentioned much, here or elsewhere. Media darlings get favors. Will he ever top his first NBA game against the hungover Heat?

buke reply to tk76 on Jan 3 at 17:54

I can't argue with anything you've said there. All of what you mention certainly is possible. My quarrel with Tray is simply because of a firm belief that a balanced approach is far more often than not the right approach regardless of the field of human endeavor. Trading Hawes or Turner or Thad, or any combination of them, for absolutely nothing simply to virtually guarantee being worse this year is not a balanced approach.

I hope sincerely that this team doesn't manage somehow to make the playoffs and forfeit a first round pick, but, absent that, I'm not too worried about the eventual record. This GM has multiple tools at his disposal to improve this team in the future.

rading Hawes or Turner or Thad, or any combination of them, for absolutely nothing simply to virtually guarantee being worse this year is not a balanced approach.

It's not rational, it's not intelligent, it's downright asinine to consider even

Just saying

Thanks, Buke, gentleman and former Iowa City scholar.

Spence's offensive numbers have frequently been the result of distance shooting, a fun activity often left unattended by opposing centers; has green light and usually has room to situate and aim; % dipping lately. Some improvement shown this year but I can't stomach a near-7 footer who avoids lane play. And whatever happened to Mel "Goose" Counts, Jim "Big Mac" McDaniels and Mel "Dinner Bell" Turpin?

Apparently Thad was disturbed/inspired by trade request report, has been playing exceptionally well since. Figure that rocket fuel will empty soon, not that his normal game requires any apology.

Kevin Pelton (4:20 PM)
Oh, by the way, Turner would be a guy people would be surprised rates worse than replacement level.

Only if you've never seen him play

Heh. I wonder if Rudy Gay does as well.

Rudy Gay, DeMarcus Cousins, Monta Ellis, John Wall, Willie Green, Carmelo Anthony, J.R. Smith, Jameer Nelson, Marreese Speights, Tyler Stansbrough, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Smith, Kevin Garnett and Andrew Bynum... who among these is your favorite player?

Probably J.R. Smith if you're making me choose. You should've included Aldridge.

J.R. Swish, interesting choice. Wouldn't have guessed it.

Aldridge - hadn't detected vituperative condemnation of Mr. Rip City; will pay attention to tonight's thread.

Biggest omission was "Evan Turnover," your gift that keeps on giving.

I believe that Spencer and Thad are on their way out at some point, but I also believe that a lot of teams are still working on figuring out where they stand and what they want, the trade deadline is still over a month away - teams might not be making their best offers yet...though some how were very excited on draft night seem to have totally reversed on Hinkie, I still believe he knows what he's doing and the building is not on fire

That's great, but I don't see why your blind faith is any better than my skepticism.

anomiemnemonical reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 11:09

I haven't reversed on Hinkie.. I still support the plan he put into motion on draft night and I think his analytical fluency will pay off for the team in the long run. That doesn't mean he should be immune from all criticism in regards to executing that plan though.

It's a precarious situation right now and the team is in an unusual position in terms of waiting for the deadline to move their 2 remaining assets (3 if you still want to include Turner). Normally the trade action is concentrated at the deadline because that's when the max numbers of options and trade partners become openly available to do business with, meaning the best chance to get a decent return for your players. But guys like Hawes will in all likelihood regress while waiting for the deadline (e.g. Turner after the first dozen games), meaning the expected return is diminishing the longer they wait.

Even more important are the early wins they're piling up. The players are losing value while also doing irreparable damage to the record so it's a lose-lose strategy any way I look at it and that is something I do hold against Hinkie early on.

Plus a couple of other minor things like letting Marshall slip to L.A. and having guys like Brandon Davies wasting a roster spot instead of a different prospect who sucks but actually has at least a little upside. But that stuff is easily forgivable considering he came away with Wroten and Hollis Thompson out of thin air pretty much.

anomiemnemonical reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 11:26

As for Thad, I think his value is at an all-time high right now so what sense is there in waiting while he continues to steal extra wins here and there. Every exec. in the league pretty much knows what Thad is about and his production is consistently solid as it has been for a few years now.

Can you think of a single non-tanking team on which Thad wouldn't fit? Obviously some teams would benefit from his style of play more than others but his game translates just about anywhere in one way or another, as long as he's tasked with doing the many things he excels at and not expected to reinvent his game into something it's not.

I think a lot of people misunderstand how trades work. You need to have someone offer something for a trade to materialize. And teams do not offer anything until they feel like they have a need. There's a reason why trades rarely happen before the deadline. "Buying" teams simply aren't all that interested in trades earlier, because they are usually average to good teams who want to evaluate the talent they already have first.

The fact that no trades have materialized so far doesn't mean Hinkie doesn't want to make trades.

Derrick Williams and Jimmer for Thaddeus Young

Sacto can't give up their first rounder until 2016 just in case

Any source on the Kings offering that for Young? Who knows if they would do that.

Btw, that's a horrible trade. If you are trading someone for nothing it should be Hawes and Turner not Thad. Thad shouldn't be traded at all unless it's a can't say no type of offer.

I made it up myself - it has no basis in reality - derrick williams has been marginalized again in Sacramento and is the kind of reclamation project I think Hinkie likes - and jimmer was just thrown in to balance salary

I was just bored

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 13:54

we'd certainly be worse off. Williams is overpaid. Thad is not.

Williams is on a rookie deal that ends soon (so is Jimmer), Williams might still have some upside in him if he can get minutes, or maybe he sucks...but it was just the idea of the reclamation project thing - i mean the sixers somehow made spencer hawes look good

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 15:39

Sac is paying both carl landry & Jason thompson over 6 mil through 2016-17. Williams over 6 mil in 2014-15. They are hosed at the PF position. I still think Houston is the best landing point for Thad. Atlanta for Hawes & Cleveland for Turner. It will take a magician to make 2 out of those 3 happen.

But what do any of those teams have that you might want the sixers to obtain?

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 15:53

One idea I had for hawes was a 3 way with Atlanta & Portland. With hawes going to atlanta. Brand & Ayon both PW/C's going to portland. Both on last year of contracts. To give 12-20 minutes a night at PW/C. Thomas Robinson, M. Leonard & Jared Cunningham coming to Sixers. Both Leonard & Robinson have that Upside and are buried on the contending Portland team. Also, are on guaranteed deals through 2014-15. I think it works for all teams involved. Thad & ET would prob need to be 3 way deals.

A team like Portland - doing pretty well - sometimes they worry about upsetting 'chemistry' - going to be hard to make a deal with them

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 15:57

thinking Brand would help but agree.

It's an interesting idea no doubt - but that whole 'chemistry'/ 'don't shake the apple cart' thing often tends to paralyze teams that need some help (like the blazers bench)...never made much sense to me...i think if you can get more talented short term players - especially in this season whre the west seems slightly more open - than yeah...not really sure where atlanta stands right now with losing their best player for the season - but then again - rudderless is the hawks standard MO isn't it?

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 16:07

Figured Hawes could help Atlanta in the short term. No idea what their plan is but he could also fit long term.

I almost with Hawes would suffer a season ending injury - i mean if this is a for real changeover - combined with a big man like noel might actually be good

sfw reply to GoSixers on Jan 4 at 16:16

twin towers

sfw reply to sfw on Jan 4 at 16:14

Maybe, Hawes fit's in Portland. They do have an opportunity to win this year. Geographically, He'd probably like the move.


anomiemnemonical reply to Xsago on Jan 4 at 14:14

I'm sure he will make trades but as I explained above, the timing of those trades makes a big difference this year. It's true that teams normally do wait as long as possible to make their moves, but if a valuable "luxury"-type piece like Young is officially put on the block early, the teams that already know they could use him to take the next step would readily begin talks, lest some other more decisive team beats them to it. You can create a market virtually any time you decide to shop a coveted player but there have been no reports that anybody is even available (except some false rumor that LB broke about Thad a few weeks ago).

And there are plenty of trades that happen before the deadline. Even days before the season begins. Look at the Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, and Marcin Gortat deals so far this season and tons of other non deadline trades in the past.

None of the trades that happened fit with the situation the Sixers are in. The Wizards needed a rim protecting center as soon as possible after Okafor went down. The Sixers never had one. The Raptors wanted to unload as much of Gay's contract as possible and do it soon so they can tank. They also didn't want to give up any assets in order to unload him. A trade that in the end gave them depth on mostly expiring contracts that has no future with the team but are winning games for Toronto. And the Williams trades was about the Wolves getting a wing defender.

The only team that has actually been willing to make trades has been Sacramento and they never really had anything to offer tht would be suitable for the sixers (they don't want to trade picks and were only offering decent rotation players, players that would actually help the Sixers win).

anomiemnemonical reply to Xsago on Jan 4 at 14:22

"'Buying' teams simply aren't all that interested in trades earlier, because they are usually average to good teams who want to evaluate the talent they already have first."

The Wizards, Bucks, Kings, Raptors, and Suns are "average to good teams"?

The suns are an average team - the raptors currently have the third seed in the east...

anomiemnemonical reply to GoSixers on Jan 6 at 11:19

eh yeah i guess. I keep forgetting how historically bad the East is this season. But you're right I suppose the Suns are an "average to good" team based on record

The Raptors and Suns are actually "selling teams" that are struggling to understand their recent success and are trying to figure out what to do. They've stopped everything on the trade front. The Wizards are not buyers anymore and the Bucks never really expressed any "buying" desire outside of the idea that their owner won't allow them to tank, which appears to be wrong.

There's an awful lot of assumption and presumption in there...right now both teams are playoff teams...and sometimes owners push for them to maintain that...raptor ownership is a mess since they don't have 'an owner' but a board...

I agree that there's a lot of assumption in there but not much more than the assumption that Turner, Hawes and Thad can actually be traded right now.

I bet they could be traded right now - but the deals would not be in the sixers best interest...there are teams out there that believe they can amke the playoffs, and Hawes and Young probably would help them - not sure anyone believes Turner is going to help

Well if the deal is not in the Sixers best interest why do it.

The on thing i have full confidence in Hinkie is that he will make the best decision regarding the possible trades for these guys given the information at hand. I have some long term concerns, but this is not one of them.

Well that wasn't your point - your point was the assumption that they can be traded :)

Some people don't care so much about the return as they do the sixers just getting worse immediately - almost any contributory player could be traded if you don't care about the return. I mean there are teams out there that i bet would take on hawes and young and give the sixers a trade exception but that's not enough value ;)

I'm fine with Hinkie's inaction, but it seems many seem to think that a good move has a shelf life and if you don't make one soon enough your credit for the sehfl life goes away

FWIW, i consider getting worse as part of the return. It's still not worth it to just give them up. I just don't think these few additional wins will impact the standings as much. The Sixers were going to be by far the worst team in the NBA without these players. They don't need to be by far the worst, just the worst by a single game. And i'm perfectly happy with a bottom 4 record (a very likely top 5 pick).

But getting worse shouldn't be the only return as far as I'm concerned, Thad and (surprisingly) Hawes have more value than just 'getting worse' - a future asset should be involved as well - be it a young player or a future pick of some sort...

anomiemnemonical reply to Xsago on Jan 6 at 11:33

Every franchise's situation is different obviously but the point I'm making is that pre-deadline trades happen every season, for whatever reason may be. As long as your offer includes a valuable piece to a team in need of one.

In related news, have you seen the LB piece about the Suns being possible trade partners in a Thad deal? It appears they could be 'buyers' after all this year. Do you have any hypothetical 76ers/Suns deals in mind?

Here's an interesting thought on why the sixers are running the offense they're running

Thorpe at ESPN.com

This 76ers squad is a good example of how a coach can help his players. First-year coach Brett Brown has a system in place that is simple, and it works perfectly in helping MCW run his team with confidence as he learns the NBA game.

When a team works patiently for the best shot possible, it invariably puts extra pressure on the point guard, who has to probe, prod, drive, reset and organize -- all in the hunt for that shot. It takes years of experience, plus loads of talent, to play that way effectively. If Philly were to run this system, it would be far worse.

Instead, Philly leads the league in pace, not only because it races up and down the floor but because it looks for the first open shot. Often, it is just a simple MCW penetrate and kick. A more talented team would score more efficiently, but scoring efficiently is not actually the ultimate goal for this team. The Sixers are allowing their prized rookie to work his way into a very complex game one step at a time.

As they add talent, they will add wrinkles to the game plan and eventually run a more layered offensive attack. By that time, Carter-Williams will be well on his way to being an All-Star. If Philly employed a more comprehensive attack now, it is doubtful we would project that of him.

Ryan Anderson left the court tonight on a stretcher with a "cervical stinger," while Chris Paul left a game after injuring his shoulder.

yeah, i'm watching the clippers. might be bad. didn't hear about ryan anderson.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 4 at 0:51

Rivers says 3-5 weeks at least, and that it's a separation.

They're going to have trouble without him. Collison can't run a team. They won tonight, but looked pretty helpless against a zone.

Lakers are hammering the Jazz right now. 30-12. Kendall Marshall lighting it up as their starting PG.

Take a look at Kendall Marshall's line tonight.

So ESPN reports that Cleveland is balking at moving Bynum for Gasol and a pick or prospect, but is seriously considering moving him for Richard Jefferson - the player, not just the disembodied contract - because they won't have to send a pick or prospect to Utah. Jefferson would strengthen them at the 3, they think. Where might Turner fit in this strange hierarchy of preferences? Might they be willing to give us Bynum and Sergey?

sfw reply to Tray on Jan 4 at 8:27

I believe Turner would be the good compliment to Irving on Cleveland. They need help in the 1/2 court offense and he could do his thing(to a lesser degree than here) with Irving. Also, he usually plays well against Miami which would also work. Wish something would happen soon.

i think it was a ESPN writer who also reported that the cavs dont want trade any assets with bynum

If you're stuck inside in the eastern winter storm - waiting for the Eagles game - Duke/ND is on CBS at 4 Eastern

Regarding ND: Phil Jackson was the greatest North Dakota basketball player of all-time. Lute Olsen played on the '52 Grand Forks HS state championship team. Dale Brown earned 12 letters at Minot State in basketball, football and track. Tough-hided 60s footballers Dave Osborn (Vikings, 29 TDs) and Pete Retzlaff (Eagles, 47 TDs) are natives of the state.

North Dakota. From Philadelphia, go west to South Dakota and make a sharp right hand turn at the first cow with icicles hanging from its ears and chin, follow road straight up until you cross painted state line. Don't forget to tip the bellhop when checking in.

Correction: running back Osborn played for U of ND, was a native of Everett, WA

Addendum: heard former Bears middle linebacker Dick Butkus on radio last week; when asked, said Jim Brown was his toughest tackle, mentioned Osborn as another difficult guy to corral. And, if I heard correctly, he said Tony Wroten's quick, shifty drives to the bucket remind him of his former teammate Gale Sayers breaking into the open field.

Interesting anonymous quote

One former NBA player who now is an assistant coach had this take on Jason Kidd’s disastrous first season as a head coach: “He’s so woefully unprepared, he’s killing my chances of ever becoming a head coach.” New York Daily News

Pohkorov is turning out to be more Snyder than Cuban - that's good long term for the sixers

Ewing, Cassel?

I tuned in just in time to see Turner get dunked on and Hawes hit a long two. Awesome. I fucking hate sports.

Portland has gotten about 14 offensive boards in the five minutes i've been watching.

They have to fucking trade Thad. This is going to be another win.

eddies' heady's on Jan 4 at 23:37

Eh, I don't see them winning this one the way it has been going, even from the start when they were up 17-2.

maybe its a sign i shouldnt be watching the game since my tv is refusing to show it

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:07

13-0 run. Up 6 w/ just under 4 left.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:13

Spencer wouldn't know a boxout if it smacked him upside his noggin.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:16

Turner the tanker is trying to come to the rescue.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:22

Thad tip in!!! Up 2 with 36 ticks left.....

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:23

Thad w/ 30 pts on 14-20 shooting. Can Wiggins do that?

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:25

Heh, Matthews misses the 2nd freebie. Turner boards. Up 1.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:28

MCW fouled and to the line w/ 21 left.

Made the 1st. Missed the 2nd. Looked like that was off Lopez's fingertips. They're going to review it.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:30

Yep, it was off Lopez. Sixers ball so POR has to foul again. Up 2.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:32

Hawes to the line. That was this fucking close to a backcourt violation. Made the 1st. Made the 2nd. up 4 baby!!!!

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:35

Turner fouled. Made both. Still up 4.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:37

Lavoy has ET open for an inbounds pass after POR scores a layup. But he doesn't throw it to him and throws it away. POR timeout. Brett Brown is livid because he called for a timeout before Lavoy turned it over and it wasn't granted.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:38

Lillard blows a layup to tie it.

Sixers win!! Sixerrrrsssssss winnnnnnnnn!!!

Turner throws the ball into the stands in celebration.

MCW has a head injury. Thad elbowed the shit out of him going for the rebound and he just fell over.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:41

OK, so we just not only won our 4th in a row(!) on a West coast road trip, but we just beat the team with the 2nd best record in the league that pasted us by 34 points in our building after throwing up 139 pts.

Yeah, that point differential thingie is some kind of predictor and carries a lot of weight huh?

I think you're misunderstanding the predictive value of point differential. The claim made for differential isn't that it predicts the future; the claim is that a team's differential, by the end of the season, will match fairly closely to its record. So, if everyone kept doing about they were doing, people who watch differential felt we'd likely have a top three pick. But differential doesn't predict future differential; no one's saying that a bad team can't start playing better offense, defense or both and improve its differential. We're outscoring teams right now; when you do that, yes, you win games. So there's no inconsistency between our differential and our win-loss; the inconsistency is between our differential before this road trip and our differential on it. Differential's just a sum of what individual players are doing on the court offensively and defensively, and as we all know, players can improve or get worse over the course of a season. All of a sudden we're getting huge doses of extremely efficient offense from Thad, and when you have a hyper-efficient 25-30 point scorer, you'll often outscore teams and win some games. We also seem to be improving a bit defensively. Differential has nothing predictive to say about any of this, with the caveat that after some point in the season you usually know about what to expect from a team. But this team is very young, we have a new coach, and we've only played 30 games. So yeah, it's a very fluid situation. One can't really have any dogmatic views about how a team of rookies and youngish vets who've never been used before in the ways they're currently being used will play going forward. That said, I do think the playoffs will always be a stretch for a roster that's so young, so talent-poor on defense, filled with high-turnover guys (in a system that maximizes turnovers), so allergic to drawing fouls, and so thin on the bench, and by thin I mean that we go approximately 7 rightfully NBA players deep.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 5 at 1:44

I think you're misunderstanding how bad the East really is.

Or, you're just in denial.

Or, your assumptions about and blind faith in Hinkie is misguided.


"The claim made for differential isn't that it predicts the future;"

Bodner yesterday: "People 'cling' to it because it's a pretty good predictor for the future"

So, which one is it?

Point differential is only predictive if it is representational.

The lousy point differential occurred with their star PG missing 1/3rd of the games and with a team comprised of players with limited NBA experience and a 1st time coach.

Now you have the PG back (with a headache) and the coach and roster are gaining experience. That does not in itself make bad players good, but does help them execute and hide their weaknesses.

The team stinks but the most representational differential is the one with MCW active- which suggests a 30+ win team. I guess we will see if this gets Hinkie moving, or maybe they will be a buyer and trade for Deng :)

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 0:44

That was a really good game though. 2nd quarter I thought was going to bury us with the bench stinking it up so bad. Heck of a game to watch from start to finish. Roller coaster for sure.

Another tragic Sixers season. But it's alright! The Rookie of the Year, All-Star Thad, and some useful hustling defensive players and shooters will go winless once they don't have Turner and Hawes to support them. Yeah right. We're going to either have to trade Thad or heavily rest him and give a ton of his minutes to Brandon Davies.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Jan 5 at 1:08

"It's not "very, very" possible; we still have been outscored by more than any team in the NBA."

3 1/2 games out of the 5th seed. 5th!

Your boy Kevin Love was fouled on a 3 point attempt, down by 2 with less than 3 seconds left in the game. He gets 3 FTs and misses all 3 of them.

Tray reply to Stan on Jan 5 at 1:25

Players on losing small-market teams are never scrutinized in the way someone like Blake Griffin is, or even someone like Aldridge. For all we know this is a thing with Love, but the way his career is going he'll never even get a first-round series to screw up in until he forms his superteam with Westbrook or whomever.

so who's up for another two days of bitching that this team won and moved this team one ping pong ball away from another high draft pick...while also complaining about our last #2 overall?


So 4 straight wins on the road. I wouldn't worry about this one, though. Their point differential against Portland this year is -16.

And now you're abusing small sample size like that person - jesus - you must have really thought the Eagles defense could stop Drew Brees

Sorry to be a broken record... If I could ask Hinkie about the Sixers current situation I would like to hear his assessment of the relative values for:

1. Trading giving away Hawes and Et an December 17 for nothing (with the Sixers taking on salary or even incentive's a trade) and going from a #6-8 pick down to a gauranteed top 5 pick


2. Trading away Hawes + ET for a maximal return at the deadline (say 2 future lottery protected 1'st) but dropping to the #7 pick.

To me it is a no brainer.

For refernece, the Sixers have gone 5-3 since Dec 17th and have 17 games that they should have a decent chance of winning between now and Feb 20th. Say they go 7-10 in those games and lose the 3 tougher games... that would be a 12W-16L from Dec 17th to the deadline. I expect they would go more like 7-21 had they traded away Hawes/ET at their first opportunity. I expect 5 wins will make a big change in their draft position.

Alex Kennedy posted this on Sulia this afternoon (what the hell is Sulia) - he used to work for hoopsworld - he might have some sources

The Philadelphia 76ers are open for business. Players like Thaddeus Young, Evan Turner, Spencer Hawes and others are available. Sam Hinkie won't just dump those guys, he wants significant assets back. But don't be surprised if Philly is very active prior to the deadline.

I think too many people are focused on the draft and not the big picture...keep in mind that the big picture is to be a contender...the rockets have become a contender without any high lottery picks turning into great players...there is more than one way to skin this cat

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