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A Fighting Chance

Add to this that MCW's replacement (Wroten) was highly productive in his absence and is considered by their coach to be the best defensive player on the team.

I agree that the Sixers are a terrible team with or without MCW. But there is something really brutal about the state of the NBA this season. Just look how the Suns and Blazers have top records. The league is just crappy this year.

I question our head coach's defensive evaluation, and strategy.

You questions pretty much everything they're doing

I don't think the league is crappier than before. I just think coaching, style of play and chemistry have had a far bigger influence than before. This is not an "iso heavy" league anymore where stars easily outshine the other players. Basketball IQ and ability to execute a smart scheme are at a premium.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 6 at 11:26

1. Injuries have made several teams much worse than they would otherwise be.

2. Several teams are not trying all that hard to be competitive this year.

3. The best players are concentrated on fewer teams.

Sure, this happens to some degree every year, but I think this year is still an outlier. Elite players are just as important as ever IMO... Make a list of the top 15 players in the league (including injured.) I would guess that more teams lack a healthy top 15 player right now than in most years.

I think with regards to injuries and top players being concentrated on only a few teams there is no difference than in other years. We just notice it more now, due to the terrible state of the Eastern conference compared to the Western conference and the Sixers being much better than what we expected.

As for more teams being "interested" in being bad this year, that's true, but bad teams are still bad and good teams are still good as evidenced by Phoenix and Toronto winning too many games and Brooklyn and New York losing a ton.

Things in general might change after the allstar break but right now i think this season overall is not different than the past few seasons. The only difference is our perception because the Philly fan base expected the team be all-time terrible and they are actually only "bad".

The only difference is our perception because the Philly fan base expected the team be all-time terrible and they are actually only "bad".

I think I would've used needed instead of expected, but this is accurate imo.

Actually, quite a few folk outside Philadelphia expected the sixers to be close to all time bad - most talking heads had the sixers (and suns I believe) as two of the worst teams in the league - so try not to say it's just a 'fan' thing to make your point

I don 't think the Sixers results are effecting my opinion. They are bad and there record is bad. I'm looking at the conferences and the players. Maybe I just overerrate the teams and players of a few years ago and underrate the players on teams like portland and Phx?

In recent years the West has been incredibly strong. Teams like the Spurs in their prime had to fight to get a top 4 seed. Now the shadow of the Spurs is making the Finals and coasting this season. I just can't be convinced that improved schemes and Leonard is enough to counterbalance the fact thad Duncan and Ginobili are well past their prime.

The Suns are one of the better teams in the league on the backs of players who I think are mediocre at best. Look at their rotation, that team would not be over 500 in the West a few years ago. And to a lesser extent I feel the same about Portland and Dallas.

And the East is not just bad. It has always been op heavy, but never has it only had 2 teams that are better than horrible. You used top have some talented but flawed teams in the middle seeds. A flawed Knicks team with Melo and Chanler an a highly productive Amare had to scrape to make the playoffs. Boston and Atl had real talent with 4 quality starters. Now we have a conference of utter garbage.

I guess I just don't agree with your premise and am sort of surprised that you don't see this season's product as weaker than it has been in a while. Look at the standings 3 years ago and imagine yourself a middling team (like the Sixers were.) How many winnable games wold you have during the season in that year versus a similar middling team this season where 70% of your games are against teams I'd call below average in a normal year? I think there are 8 decent teams in the NBA this year.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 6 at 12:07

Simple exercise: look at every team and compare them to what they were a few years agointerms of taken and level of play. Which teams are significantly improved versus worse?

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 6 at 12:13

Teams that are clearly better:

Rockets (by talent more than record, since they have healthy talent, Yao and TMAC had a better team, but were always hurt.)
Pelicans (although arguably worse than when CP3 was winning there,)
Grizzlies (but still not a good team yet IMO)

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 6 at 12:21

Sorry, should have included GSW in the improved list

Looking at 2010-11
Teams that are clearly worse:

Magic (52 wins)

Most of these teams were good back then and now many are a joke
And I would say SA and Memphis but I guess that is debatable.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 6 at 12:23

I just realized I put Memphis in both lists. I meant to put the wolves in the better list, not Memphis, who is worse this year.

This is far from a good way to evaluate the strength of the league but i'll bite. I disagree about some of the teams on your lists btw.

The comparisons are with 2010-2011 like yours

Clearly better:
LA Clippers
Golden State

Clearly worse:

Overall it looks pretty even to me...

I think it's all about perception and the fact that some players improve and others regress, which is sometimes hard to grasp. And on top of it all, team concepts are more important than ever and the "on paper" strength of the roster is not as relevant as it used to be (it's still a very good indicator of course, but it's importance is weakened). And injuries always have huge impacts on the on-court product. And this year for some reason there are a lot of really good players out with injuries (the same happened last year as well).

It is all going to be subjective in the end, and there are the same number of wins to go around each year.

IMO a lot of the teams that are better are just not that good. But again, that is subjective. I think teams 3 years ago like Chicago, Boston, Dallas and the Spurs were much better than this season's Portland, GSW, Phx and the 2013/4 Spurs, but there is no way to really prove that.

I guess I just go back to making a list of the top 15 or 20 players in each year and looking at how many are hurt, how they are distributed and whether they are as good. And then come to what you think is the right opinion.

eddies' heady's on Jan 5 at 10:50

Touching on the point about the chance to acquire the one key piece to the puzzle, although we all have no evidence to go off of, does anyone think that any of the hyped-up prospects can come into the league and put up the numbers (however inflated or hollow) that MCW is putting up in his rookie year? Say in their first 2 to 3 years?

It depends on the team. Wroten put up pretty good numbers in MCW's absence.

I think if you add Wiggins to MCW and Noel this team will be at the top in the east within 4 years. Don't have the same feeling with any other prospects.

I'm not sure how I feel about any of them right now because defensively they all look uninterested...Kansas has a game on CBS this afternoon

Ryan reply to Brian on Jan 13 at 12:54

So you're still in the camp taking Wiggins if we get the top pick?

Interesting Interview with Pat Riley in an unusual place on the web regarding a variety of approaches to building an NBA team

buke reply to GoSixers on Jan 5 at 14:29

Thank you for that link. I enjoyed reading that. I appreciated his skepticism about the probability of success when using a build-through-the-draft strategy.

I forgot the Beas was back in Miami. Funny.

Norris Cole is a great addition when he's around LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. He doesn't move the needle if he's not.

Saving money to make a splash in free agency is great, when you have Dwayne Wade and Miami beaches to attract free agents. Philadelphia and Nerlens Noel doesn't really have the same draw.

This is the difference between two situations. This is the difference between those who mistake the argument as 'do everything through the draft', when people are really saying 'take the first step through the draft'. The goal of the draft is to get into a reasonable facsimile of the situation the Heat were with Dwayne Wade so we can take the next steps.

eddies' heady's reply to Derek Bodner on Jan 5 at 15:44

One could reasonably argue we've already taken the first steps with Michael Carter-Williams and Nerlens Noel, no?

It's a heck of an argument to be made that MCW is our Wade.

Which is why I sort of asked the question up above. And why I've been taking the stance that it's not a sure thing that our GM is going to trade what he may now see as a piece in Thad just for the sake of hoping to get lucky with ping pong balls. It just seems too much of a risk with not enough guarantee of a reward to make decisions based on luck playing such a big factor.

He may pull the trigger on a trade or multiple trades in the next 30 days or so, but I'm of the belief that the fanbase has erred in assuming or thinking that it's a given that he's 'going' to do something. More like wishful thinking I'd say.

Hinkie, Brett Brown, or anyone in management has given no indication that they were going to sell any and every thing off. Reasonable and wishful assumptions were made and that's about the extent of any so-called evidence leading to that line of belief.

I don't disagree about Thad. I believe Hinkie values him and would probably like to keep him. That's what worries me. In a perfect world, they'd get rid of Hawes and Turner and that would be enough to drop in the standings. The problem is I'm not certain losing those two moves the needle enough , and the longer he waits, the more wins the team picks up, the more the needle needs to be moved to get a top pick. If they don't finish with a bottom 3 record I'll consider this season a waste and Hinkie's first year at the helm a failure. Maybe they finish 7th worst and win the lottery, in that case I'd still consider him a failure because it was dumb luck and guys as smart as him abhor luck.

Well I wasn't agreeing with the article, just posting it for folks to read. I agree with most of your assertions, but the heat also had a few other things going for them that Philadelphia will never have going for them

Miami weather
Miami women
Miami night life
Miami state income tax rate of zero
Miami fan base (apathy when you're losing might appeal to some players)

I don't doubt that YOUR position may be a more nuanced one as you describe, but for the majority of the juvenile group thinking sheep at your former site, the position that nothing matters except a top three position in the coming draft and obtaining even more draft picks in lieu of current players seems to be nothing short of a true religion.

Outside of MCW and Thad, do you seriously think anyone else on the active roster really matters in any way long term? I mean, what's the argument you're making, that we should be trying to develop this team and winning as many games as possible? Going for the playoffs?

If Hawes 'change' is for real - do you not think that he would be a good pair with a helathy defensively oriented offensively limited big man like Nerlens Noel?

buke reply to GoSixers on Jan 5 at 18:30

The question wasn't asked of me, but my answer is probably "Yes."

Nope. horrible match defensively. You're left with either the option of Hawes guarding perimeter 4's (hah), or pulling an elite shotblocker away from the hoop.

buke reply to Brian on Jan 5 at 18:11

No, I do not want this team to make the playoffs. I would rather see them get 2 lottery picks than only 1, but I don't care so much where in the lottery those picks fall. However, I don't support abandoning any concept of developing the current core in favor of higher speculative draft picks. I have never lived my life as a dreamer and never once thought about "my ship coming in." A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

As far as the current personnel, it should be obvious that you and I have different opinions about the relative worth of certain players on this team and that's just fine with me.

What bird do they have in their hand, Turner?

It does not have to be nuanced. It is very simple:

The Sixers chose to be be bad this year by trading away Jrue for an injured lottery pick and a future #1. The point was to pull off an accelerated rebuild by getting 4 lottery picks in 2 years and sustain year of pain instead of 3 or 4.

But if you are going to be bad (and 12-21 is bad) then you better maximize your reward for being bad. This is supposed to be a strong draft with impact players at the top of the draft. If you are both bad and yet not bad enough to get a top pick then you are basically intentionally suffering through a bad season for no purpose.

This is not about worshiping draft picks. It is about executing a rebuilding strategy. Regardless of whether you agree with the strategy, it would be foolish to not execute it properly. It would be just as foolish as trying to do what Miami or Boston did but settle for mediocre players instead of stars. And on average, guys picked in the second half of the lottery are a lot less likely to be stars then guys picked in the top 5 of a highly ranked draft.

buke reply to tk76 on Jan 5 at 17:58

Actually, you are the one who doesn't seem to understand two simple decision making fundamentals:

1) simple, narrow, and high risk strategies are only appropriate for those with few options;

2) whatever the Sixers have done in the past is a "sunk cost" and shouldn't restrict their thinking in the future.

New developments should lead to revisions in thinking. Of course, the Sixers aren't quite to the point of debunking what seemed to be the original strategy but they may have a competent enough core to build around through the draft and free agency and they have the means to do both. If they don't get a top five pick (at least two of which will probably be disappointing), they still have options to improve this team significantly. Their biggest obstacle to being competitive this year is not a lack of "superstars." Their biggest shortcomings are lack of quality depth and, until very recently, lack of willing defensive play.

Jeff reply to buke on Jan 5 at 18:03

And with this said, I'm sure you're alluding to the 2004 Pistons as the ultimate guide to winning a championship.

buke reply to Jeff on Jan 5 at 18:20

Yes, and I'm sure you always ignore the Kings, Timberwolves, Bobcats, Cavaliers, and Wizards while you're thinking about the Thunder. Pedestrian wiseass.

Jeff reply to buke on Jan 5 at 19:48


I didn't realize those other teams you mentioned had competent front offices capable of assembling contending teams. With someone in Hinkie who seems to be ahead of the curve, you certainly wouldn't want him to have the largest possible selection of prospects to choose from. Excellent point.

buke reply to Jeff on Jan 5 at 20:28

You were trying to be a smart ass but you lack the ability to do it well.
I just returned the favor. End of story.

Whether Hinkle will be significantly better than those teams' GMs (or our former GMs), I don't know and neither do you at this point.


Jeff reply to buke on Jan 5 at 21:23

Too much sound reasoning here. I'm surprised you don't have a blog of your own.

Of course we have no evidence to suggest that Hinkie would make moronic trades like the Bobcats did with Al Jefferson to become mediocre or make ill-advised draft choices like the Cavs in drafting Anthony Bennett with the #1 pick. Yes you've certainly proven your point.

buke reply to Jeff on Jan 5 at 22:50

I've never tried to prove anything that is by nature unprovable. Why don't you just quit while you're behind.

Jeff reply to buke on Jan 6 at 10:14

When you decide to post a comment with substance, please let me know.

That change of course reminds me of when the Sixers changed from a full rebuild post Iverson, to trying to maximize the .500 team they had with Andre Mill steadying the ship. That was a painful past that I won't soon forget. They pt off rebuilding for 10 years for mediocrity and incremental moves. I'd rather strike out with Bynum then try and incremnetally build around ET and Hawes.

buke reply to tk76 on Jan 6 at 15:00

Well, there's another example of our differences of opinion. I was grateful that I got the chance to see Andre Miller as the Sixers point guard for two and a half years. I'm only sorry that the Miller era ended so soon.

Tray reply to buke on Jan 5 at 19:36

"Their biggest obstacle to being competitive this year is not a lack of "superstars." Their biggest shortcomings are lack of quality depth and, until very recently, lack of willing defensive play."

That's true. But our biggest obstacle to contending for a championship in 3 or 4 years is a lack of superstars. If the goal is merely being competitive, it's not going to be hard to piece together a quality bench, and Noel will help with the defensive play. Suppose, for example, we let Turner walk, sign someone like Afflalo to fill his spot, keep Thad, and play those two with MCW, Noel, and maybe Hawes, along with a few cheap and actually competent role players. That would be a really nice defensive team and maybe a decent enough offensive team. Would we have any chance at winning or even going to the Finals? I really doubt it - not enough top-end talent. Would some superstar ever sign with us in free agency? I doubt that too. There are great players, like Duncan, who are willing to stay in a less glitzy market once they're drafted there, but superstars never seem to go to one of their own accord. Perhaps we could get lucky and trade for a superstar, but if that's what we're staking our championship hopes on, the sort of asset that can get you a superstar these days is a very high draft pick in this year's draft, not the players you want us to hang onto at the possible cost of our getting a very high pick in this year's draft. I will grant you that Thad and the Pelicans' pick would be as attractive or more attractive of an offer as what OKC got for Harden (Kevin Martin and the 12th pick), but Harden was an unusual case in that people weren't quite sure he was a star.

buke reply to Tray on Jan 6 at 14:38

Look, I simply don't care that much about championships. That's only one series out of about 100 games or so if a team gets that far. Why people place so much emphasis on that escapes me. I wasn't crushed when the Sixers lost the 2001 finals. I was grateful for the wonderful season. I was also mostly pleased with their performance in 1999, 2000, 2003, and 2012.

What I really care about is avoiding extended periods of terrible where a team losses big, drafts high, has some of those players do well but others do little, improves but continues losing, then repeats the process after some of the key players are traded or lost to free agency. I lived through the nineties with the Sixers and I've lived for over a decade with the Timberwolves. I have no interest in seeing the current Sixers go into that cycle and that cycle is just as likely, if not more likely, than the Thunder experience.

This isn't a misunderstanding. I understand your desires, values, and preferences. I just don't share them.

Throughout my life I have had no particular desire for great wealth but I have had an extreme aversion to poverty. My preferences for my favorite teams are the same.

Look, I simply don't care that much about championships

The point of professional sports is to win championships...if you are a team that isn't trying to build towards winning a championship, you're doing it wrong, and your fans should demand new ownership

buke reply to GoSixers on Jan 6 at 14:55

Says you. I don't share that view. Why do you care about my preferences anyway? I can assure you that I don't care about yours.

I want the team to do what it takes to be good. If they reach that state and subsequently manage to cross the line into greatness, I certainly won't complain, but mostly I care about whether the team is competitive or, better yet, good, for the substantial majority of years. I can take a rebuilding year or maybe even two here and there, but three poor seasons in a row is too many for me.

Fair enough. I enjoy sports for the excitement, drama and narrative. Certainly a team is lacking in these areas when it stinks for years on end. I've watch more bad and mediocre Sixers teams than good. I like watching a team on the rise that he legit talent. I find low ceiling veteran teams to be sort of boring, although I too apreciated Andre Miller.

"Impact players at top of draft"...you mean like Wiggins, who's shooting 1-5 against San Diego State today? Kid's a long way from Danny Manning (who didn't exactly transform the NBA), hardly worth dumping a season for. If Kansas has 3 top prospects, I'll eat my hat - or pray for the league's future.

tk76 reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 5 at 21:22

I'm not any kind of draft expert. I figure most years there are a small number of players who can potentially become one of the best 2 players on a contender. Some years you have zero and occasionally you have up to 4 in a draft.

The general sense is that this draft has more players with that draft has more players with that type of potential than most, even if it lacks a sure thing like Duncan/Shaq/Lebron. So I can't tell you if it will be Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Randle, Smart or Exum who will develop into that type of player. But I think it is fair to say that a good GM will have a much better shot if he can pick his favorite from one of those six than if he gets the last of the 6 picked or has to pick someone else this year.

Like Tray says, its about giving yourself the best chance, and having a top 3 pick this year gives you a lot better chance then having a #7 pick, or even a #2 pick in a weaker draft.

Since we are talking probability and not certainty there is a chance that nobody pans out as a star, or that guys like ET/Hawes end u[p better than several players who go in the top 6. But given the team chose this route, I'd prefer them to maximize there chances as opposed to changing their mind mid-season and to try and build with what they have plus a later lottery pick.

Turner, 4 years to reach 'scoring mediocrity' level.

Hawes, 7 years to reach whatever he is... Gminski Lite?

Iguodala and Holiday, athletes with wide berths in first 3 seasons as fans both cheered and cringed.

Draft: too many raw products/projects have replaced more refined/experienced ones through time and culture changes. Product result: "crap" - - with dollups of hype, dashes of hope.

Pro has morphed to college, college to high school re fundamentals, understanding of game, approach. Overstatement, but you get my point.

tk76 reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 6 at 11:38

I agree with your general premise about the game, but at the end of the day it is still about talent and there are still excellent players out their who are committed to their craft. I guess you just have to be smarter and luckier as you try and project guys when they enter the league. Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, George and Dwight were all incredibly raw when they entered the league (Dwight still is, but has had dominant seasons regardless.) Other guys like Love, Durant, Lebron and Rose entered the league with a bit more polish, but still had to adapt given their age.

On one hand it has hurt both college and the pros that the NCAA has turned into a 1 year stop. But on the other hand, the NCAA is a farce, and I'd rather see it separated from universities and turned into a professional minor league like it should be- so I don't shed any tears for the NCAA.

buke reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 6 at 15:07

I don't disagree with the general theme of your post, but I would say that becoming "Gminski lite" is not such a terrible thing and Hawes might be approaching full Gminski this season.

Jeff reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 5 at 21:26

I hope you enjoy the taste of your hat.

pork pie

so, indeed, if you will

if you like your plan, you can keep your plan - period

@Sixers Official: #Sixers assign guard Elliot Williams to the Delaware 87ers

Another thrilling move

TwoSense reply to sixerfan1220 on Jan 5 at 18:05

They didn't waste any time. He's playing right now versus Reno on CBSsports net.

teams can start handing out 10 day contracts tomorrow

Ideal starting 5 next year:

LaVine (NOP pick)
Wiggins (Our pick)

If Hinkie makes that happen, I'll be a believer forever.

Probable starting 5 next year:

Chris Walker (NOP)
Dario Saric (Our pick)

MCW - 40% shooter

LaVine - another athletic, unpolished freshman

Wiggins - Mitchell's son; forewarned is fairly warned

Thad - good stuff

Noel - is he still flicking his wrist from 4 ft? or is he out to 6 now?

outdated hair cut, needs to talk to James Harden

blocking, running, dunking, competitive edge/intensity his fortes, IT'S BEEN SAID

a nice relay team, but can they play the game of basketball to upper echelon?

tipped balls, deflections, steals are a start; who goes nose to nose against muscle?

No idea if they'd work together, but it would be fun to watch.

I think Lavine is overhyped. Other than that, that's my ideal lineup for next year as well. Just somehow turn Hawes+Turner+the Sixers pick + the Pelicans pick into Wiggins. The rest of the assets don't even matter.

The kid can shoot and he has a really quick release. Not sure how much of a defender he'll be, don't think it would matter a whole lot in that lineup, but they'd need a shooter. He'd give them that.


Tom Moore wrote a 'what if' article regarding if the sixers hadn't traded Jrue this off season, but the paper her works for wants 9.99 a month for online viewership.

Really? Hmmn.

They'd be a much better team right now, with a lower ceiling for the future, imo. Assuming they drafted MCW and played them side-by-side.

btw, the rumor at the draft was Hinkie was dangling Jrue in the package as long as he could get a future first and either Nerlens Noel or Anthony Bennett in the deal. Anyone kind of worried that Hinkie was high on Bennett?

Not sure I'd believe the rumor, and not sure the sixers would have drafted Carter-Williams if they kept Jrue either...just would have been something different to read this morning as opposed to awful articles about the eagles

I haven't read anything about the Eagles. Will around the draft. I'd like to see the offense with a full year of Foles, a healthy Maclin and Cooper back in the fold, though. If they don't have two different starting safeties next year, I'm going to cry.

I wasn't impressed with how the defensive line got pushed around in short yardage circumstances - but I turned the game off when the Eagles went up 24-23, I didnt' have any faith they'd win...the defense wasn't stopping Brees, only Brees was stopping Brees.

Not sure they keep Maclin - he's a free agent - hopefully they do...but agree that the defense needs some upgrades...still a pretty surprising and satisfying season I think especially based on pre-season expectations

The rumor was about Noel, Bennett or Oladipo. But Hinkie said that rumor was bogus IIRC correctly. He said that he would never reveal who he was high on after the draft because the interest in players doesn't end with the draft. And that kind of makes sense and is in line with his general behavior.

If we are going with the "what if" route, how about this:

- reset the Jrue trade
- reset the Bynum trade

A ton of hypotheticals here but you are left with:


with a bench of Wroten/Turner/Hawes/Noel. That's a really good 9 man core. The starting lineup needs a little more shooting but it's not a major issue.

How good is that team? Can they contend?

I think with some seasoning and Brett Brown as coach they might just be a contender. They are not too different from the current Blazers (less shooting more defense but somewhat similarly built).

buke reply to Xsago on Jan 6 at 17:55

Indeed it is. I would say 3rd in the Eastern Conference this year with a chance of beating #2 in the playoffs.

You wouldn't have Noel on the bench. I'd rather reset the Turner draft pick, and make it with 20/20 hind sight.

Paul George

with Vucevic, Hawes and Wroten coming off the bench. No center needed.

No center or power forward needed huh?

and the current blazers team is not a contender. Aldridge is a disgrace.

Tray reply to Xsago on Jan 6 at 17:59

Not that I see the similarities, but are the current Blazers actually a contender?

Well designed offense, young very good PGs (MCW, Lillard), a great defensive oriented glue guy on the wings (Iguodala, Batum), a second tier center (Vucevic, Lopez). Not the same, but there are some similarities.

Anyway, any team capable of winning 55+ games in a year is a contender in my book. After that a lot depends on luck and matchups. There are probably 8 contenders in the league at the moment (2 in the East, 6 in the West).

Lorenzo Brown & Elliot Williams recalled from the sevens

jsmoove reply to sixerfan1220 on Jan 6 at 12:48

any insight into why they would do this? Williams going for one day? whats the thought behind that

ohhhhhh i get it maybe with brown coming back up may mean that mcw is going to miss some games

the sevens had a game yesterday so maybe it was a quick way to get him some game action

I guess that means they a4 keeping them?

Perry Moss & Brian Oliver.

Thaddeus Young is Eastern Conference player of the week

Looks like the streak will probably come to an end.

picked a good game to miss

first game back after a west coast trip. No legs every time. Unfortunately, I was there.

tk76 reply to sfw on Jan 6 at 23:57

Sorry for your loss.

sfw reply to tk76 on Jan 7 at 7:04

A good night. Hate to say it but looking for losses in all the wrong places! Fans seemed to still enjoy themselves.

deng to the cavs for bynum, 1 1st round(protected) and 2 2nd round picks

Mike reply to sixerfan1220 on Jan 7 at 8:51

i know the Cavs want to make the playoffs this season, but i just don't understand how any team could give away draft picks in this day & age when their ceiling is probably a 4 or 5 seed in a pathetic conference. i like Deng but do they really think they are a threat to Miami or Indy now?

It's a top 12 protected pick and i don't think the Cavs view Deng as a short term fix. I think they want to add him to their core.

If anything, this trade establishes what you can expect for Hawes and Turner: a mid first rounder for Hawes, mid-late one for Turner (Deng was worth major cap relief, a first rounder, 2 second rounders and an opportunity to swap a non-lottery first round pick).

i should add that its Sacramento's first round pick from the hickson for casspi deal

Tray reply to Xsago on Jan 7 at 11:49

I don't know if this establishes anyone's value, since Cleveland was bargaining from a weak position in several respects. First, everyone knows that Grant is under an ownership mandate to push for the playoffs, and to do that they had to move their most attractive asset, Bynum's cap relief. Second, after they decided just a week or so ago that they would move on from Bynum, they just had a week to move that asset before it lost nearly all its value. When the only other offers (that we know of, but if there were better offers it would have been in the Cavs' interest to publicize them) that they got were Gasol, a player they didn't really need, and Richard Jefferson, a player they didn't really want, Chicago was well-positioned to exact a premium above the cap relief Cleveland was offering.

In the case of selling off Turner and Hawes, on the other hand, I don't think we're likely to have the same advantages that Chicago did. Our trade partner probably isn't going to be a team under a mandate from ownership to make the playoffs, but rather, one that's looking to get a little bit better. The Spurs or Blazers or Thunder or even the Clippers can threaten to walk out of trade talks with much more credibility than Cleveland could because they don't really need our guys, and not only for that reason, but for the reason that by February, more players will be on the market. Second, our trade partner probably won't be a team, as Cleveland was, with a suddenly developing one-week window to move its best asset. Rather, it will probably be a team that's been talking to other teams in preliminary conversations for weeks.

according woj deng turned down a 3 year 30 million extension before they traded him

Wait, turned down the extension to stay in Chicago, or turned down the extension with Cleveland?

turned down the extension to stay in Chicago

If I'm a Bulls writer, I try to get Thibs on the phone as soon as the news is public cause you know he's not happy about this

poor jimmy butler is going to play the whole game now

herniated disc for ryan anderson, no word how long he will be out for

The Cavs still aren't going to make the playoffs. Wonder if they're done now, or if they'd like to get their hands on Hawes or Turner on the cheap.

Rumors today are that the cavs aren't done - but they don't want to give up any of their 'young' pieces and they shot their wad with picks I think (Chicago also got the right to swap picks in 2015 but that's lottery protected)

I mean, what can Cleveland offer right now?

One 'source' with the bulls says they aren't tanking - but not sure anyone could believe that

I honestly don't care if they get anything of value in return. Turner especially isn't worth anything of value.

Here's a trade for you: link

Hawes for Bonner, a couple one-year deals and San Antonio's first-round pick. Hinkie gets another first-round pick (albeit a late first) and the other guys are gone at the end of the year. Think Hawes would fit very well on San Antonio.

Doesn't San Antonio at least care a little about defense?

I'm not thinking Turner garners value but you have to think Thad Young gets value - I mean - he's more valuable than Luol Deng right now due to age and contract control right?

Does Bonner really make the sixers 'worse' - I mean he shoots 3's better than Hawes and can't be worse defensively right:)

I think if you remove young and hawes from the roster, Turner will do a fine job of sinking the sixers...

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 7 at 11:39

The Spurs care a lot about defense, but they're already 5th in the league at it, and they are willing to play lousy defenders who fit in their system (see Bellinelli).

Zach Lowe with some surprisingly kind words for Zumoff and Rose:

Marc Zumoff, the Sixers' longtime play-by-play announcer, breaks out this catchphrase ["locking all windows and doors"] at least once or twice a game when Philly has an opponent up against the shot clock. It's his fun way of saying the Sixers are trying to seal up a stop. I'm a fan, and the Sixers' broadcast experience in general is one of the half-dozen best in the league.

I agree they're among the best. Think I'm qualified to say that, too, because most times I hear the other team's feed.

I like zumoff, though sometime I think he's a bit homerific - but not as bad as most guys - never liked Malik though

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 7 at 12:52

I think Malik is honest, at least. Zumoff is very company line. When Harry Kalas called the Phillies, you knew which players he loved and which ones he thought were a disgrace. Even when a pitcher he didn't hate was having a bad game and gave up a ton of walks, he would register disappointment and dismay. With Zumoff, it's like just putting on the Sixers uniform makes you a great basketball player. Whether you like all his annoying catchphrases is a matter of taste, but a broadcaster who holds out Turner as a budding All-Star or Lavoy Allen as a competent anything is failing at his job.

Tray reply to Tray on Jan 7 at 12:54

And even this locking all windows and doors crap is a little disingenuous. In the Larry Brown era, I understood calling our defensive possessions with gusto; we were a great defensive team at times. But now, we're awful and yet he'll still call a game as if we're defending well, going into hysterics the one time we force a shot clock violation and never calling attention to all the failures.

I think Rose does a good job of calling out the failures, at least in the games I've seen them call. There's a decent balance in the booth, which is much better than having two homers constantly gushing about their players. Portland's announcing team was a lot like that the other night.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 7 at 13:31

Portland has some things to gush about. Of course they're all pretty flawed players in certain ways, but I don't begrudge them irrational exuberance over a 25-7 team.

Jeff reply to Brian on Jan 7 at 14:28

Me as well, which reminds me that I'll likely be getting the Cavs feed tonight, ugh.

I have not heard anyone worse than the Pelicans broadcast team so far. Whether they're winning or losing they downright insult the opposing team, which I can understand as far as pumping up the home viewers, but they don't follow that with any technical outlining of what's actually happening. Ugh, they truly are torturous. Insta-mute.

Malik, as opposed to those bastards down south, is actually a great addition. Also, "that's a shot Aminu can actually make."

But really, Malik is unbiased in his examination of fouls and other calls, and can clearly communicate his understanding of the game with the viewership. So, so much better than sleepyhead Eric Snow. The only criticism he's deserving of is he can become an inconsolable sour-grape after observing more than a few minutes of bad basketball.

sfw reply to Tray on Jan 7 at 13:03

Not a big fan of Zu but he's ok. Tired of his catch phrases. I enjoy Malik's honesty and excitement for the good and bad of the game. Like him a lot.

Malik is a keeper. He seems reasonably smart, honest and funny and he has upside as an announcer :)

does that include Malik's coughing about his, ahem, makeup the other night?

I've heard them all and i can honestly say that Zumoff and Rose are top 3-4. I especially like Rose who actually calls the game fairly and frequently has funny original jokes.

If reports are to believed, the Bulls are not exactly tanking as much as making a calculated move. It sounds like there was enough ill will between Deng and the Bulls over an incident with the medical staff to where he was not going to resign. Since this season is lost for them, it made sense to try and maximize his return and save some money (by cutting Bynum.)

I don't think this signals a complete rebuild or fire sale, although it also makes lots of sense for them to try and get rid of Boozer.

I think the Sixers )under different management) would have tried to get Deng for cap space and some high seconds and then try and rush Noel back.

MCW/ET/Deng/Thad/Hawes/Wroten/Noel could have propelled the Sixers into Collineque success.

No one is going to take boozer with the money he makes right now - most likely he'll get amnestied (and claimed) in the off season

Jarrett Jack will not play tonight

Kyrie is a GTD

Sounds like another "Lakers game" where the opponent fields a bunch of beatable scrubs. I'm guessing the Sixers end up playing about 30 games this year where the opponent is lacking at least one of their top 2 players.

I guess, but this doesn't really fall into the same category as the Lakers, right? Cleveland is making a push for the playoffs, not holding their players out because they'd like more ping pong balls.

Yeah, a bit of over-dramatic hyperbole on my part.

But the Cavs without Kyrie, Jack and Deng are a far cry of the team they will be in a few weeks. And again the Sixers get to face the stripped down version.

I'm not even sure who will play PG of SF for them, and their SG is Waiters, who you have to hope has a hot night.

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 7 at 16:19

Your answer: http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/01/rookie_matthew_dellavedova_sta.html

For what it's worth, Cavs bloggers like him ( http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/12/26/5243626/the-cavaliers-very-own-christmas-miracle-matthew-dellavedova ) and he's shooting 46% from three on a significant number of attempts.

Well I guess the tank can roll on then...

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 7 at 16:50

I mean, he and the Irving-less Cavs are not a total disaster, but I still expect us to win.

orton waived

Bummer. But glad Kyrie is playing.

Surprised he was the only one waived today

no wroten tonight

Kyrie playing tonight

hmm Zumoff just said Orton is gone bc they “hope to have Moultrie back soon”…are they THAT cheap to leave the roster spot open until whenever he is ready?

no if they get moultrie back soon no use in having to guarantee his contract when you can give a 10 day contract to a d-leaguer

hawes loses the tip

and we're off...over/under 30 and 20 for sideshow bob?

bad shot by mcw but it goes in

live with the varejao jumpers

dont really need to double miles coming off a screen

sissy 3


someone lost kyrie in transition hits a 3

Why waive orton but keep Davies?

Orton makes twice as much money if he's guaranteed?

mcw splits the ft

2 on kyrie

look at davies score!

Nice to see them come out so flat after last nights pummeling.

PS with all the cancelled flights in the east - how the hell did they get there. Was it a very late flight?

weather wasnt as bad last night when they left

down 16 end of the first

anderson hits 2 ft

anderson steal and dunk

Damn it - Thad's having a terrible auditon

bad evan so far tonight

williams 3

mcw 3

nice finish by mcw

bad entry by mcw

"evan turner as cold as the weather" well said malik

stop leaving cj miles wide open

not thad's best half

another miles 3

thats 8

sissy block!

anderson and 1!

down 23 at the half

eddies' heady's on Jan 7 at 20:08

In a season where it actually mattered to the organization, I'd voice displeasure with the schedule makers for tonight's game. After a drawn out West coast road trip, then not only having to play the day after they get back, but then play a back-to-back on the road? That ain't right. Not very favorable or nice. I'd raise hell if I were Harris or Hinkie.

anderson starting for thompson

hawes to the line

sissy jumper

mcw bucket

eddies' heady's on Jan 7 at 20:33

Them boys legs are tired.

And their heads are unwired.

mcw bucket

mcw alley oop to anderson

tristan thompson is causing a ton of problems

williams bucket

thompson hits 2 ft

williams looking decent in garbage time

davies splits the ft

down 25 end of the 3rd

9 3's for miles

make it 10

they have done a better job on him in the 2nd half

ahh so much fun when zumoff says something and then molly on the sideline says the EXACT SAME THING

mcw and 1

not sure why hes still playing

MCW showing why he is a special player. I feel better about our draft situation(as long as the sixers don't make the playoffs).

An "I'll get mine" 33 pt., 'minus 30' showing in a game that was over at 22 minute mark. Not sure that's one for the scrapbook. Proof he takes to and can register points in what was essentally freewheelin' streetball mode.

Another garbage game. Whatever became of the Sixers vaunted superior conditioning?

At least he came to play; Most others did not. Young team & coaching staff could not handle the horrible NBA scheduling. I guess Davies can relax a bit now.

Post-NBA scheduling of North Korea not too swift either. Captain Dennis Rodman, international man of measure. Rest of squad at podium scared out of wits, imagining horrific end as dog food in a jiffy. Stern says they were blinded by money. He oughta know.

Davies - a dangly, dueling dervish last night.

mcw splits the ft

lost by 18

Season high for Turner's man!!!

Gotta hate point differential. In their case it shows a lack of consistency :)

I blame coaching staff for blowout. After Miles makes 3rd 3 gotta sic your best available junkyard dog on him exclusively, no daylight. Miles was too comfortable all night. Brown talks "defense first" but it doesn't translate.
I'm beginning to think the Sixers aren't trying their best. :)

It's a rarity, but I 100% agree with you here.

Single digits returns people to elemental tenets of procedure.

As ivories-tickling scout Fats Waller once quipped, "one never knows, do one?"

I blame coaching staff for blowout. After Miles makes 3rd 3 gotta sic your best available junkyard dog on him exclusively, no daylight. Miles was too comfortable all night. Brown talks "defense first" but it doesn't translate.
I'm beginning to think the Sixers aren't trying their best. :)

Tray reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 8 at 10:45

Who is our best available junkyard dog?

Woten, who was out with the flu.

An attorney with a deadline.

Last night, anybody in uniform with a pulse and ability to perform a task - blanket and pester Mr. Miles, deny him good vision at orange cylinder.

I don't have the group in practice so it's not easy to determine who would best carry out mission. Brown should be able to select the right soldier by now though. From my TV viewing distance, with Wroten nursing an exacerbated pulled hangnail, I would've thrown Elliot Williams at Miles with simple directions and exclamation point attached. If he didn't get it done, try next option. Great man-to-man defense requires focus, athleticism, friskiness and relentlessness. Surely somebody among roster could've done the job, kept him away from easy looks.

Who would you have selected for said task among the available? Young and Turner don't count; were sleepwalkers/pushovers, for whatever reason, last night.

@MikeSielski Can also confirm that #Sixers-#Devils presser isn't about on-court/on-ice matters. Sixers aren't playing any games in Newark, for instance.

Is a pre-season game a major announcement?

moving the sixers to newark.

Funny...I'm going to say it's some sort of tv deal promotion - even with the idiotic nonsense that comcast foisted upon Harris when he bought the team...maybe they're starting their own network?

The No Network?

funkityfunk on Jan 8 at 11:47

Iverson is going to be there? This is either moving the team to NJ, or something stupid that no one cares about imo. Probably some kind of cross-team ticket package or something.

It's something stupid that nobody cares about.

That covers an awful lot that is sixers related these days ;)

Haha. No, seriously, it's of very little relevance. There's nothing to worry about.

Could be Chickie's & Pete's will be expanding the franchise to Newark next season. "Go, crab fries!"

"Let's go Flyers! Let's go, Don Earle!" ~ the late, great Gene Hart

In the radio business, when a station wants to change format, they first kind of clear the decks with their audience. For example, if a rock station wanted to change to hip hop, first they would play nothing but country music for a couple of days. This could be what Harris has done with the Sixers. This season was designed to make interest so low in Philly that there wouldn't be a huge shitstorm when he moved the team. He didn't care if he disillusioned the fans in Philly, because he's going after new fans in NJ anyway.

Here's an important question. If Harris does move the team to Newark, will you still follow them? Assume Philly gets a new team afterwards, would they then be your team? Not sure what I'd do. I think if he really is going to move the team to NJ, the NBA has to have a plan to move another team into Philly.

The only team that is 'ready made' to move to Philadelphia is the Bucks - and I'm not really interested in that franchise with Herb Kohl at the front of it - I'm pretty set on how I feel about all things Jersey - if the sixers somehow move to New Jersey - they're dead to me - and they better change their damn name too - but I also think this is not what it's about - franchises moving is a huge thing and no way all the people involved (sixers AND NBA) keep it quiet - it would have leaked before now...hell - the NBA Board of governors has to vote on a relocation I believe don't they?

Losing a pro sports team to freaking New Jersey would be one of the worst things to happen to Philadlephia sports since Santa Clause - much worse than mitch williams in toronto.

The Six reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 12:23

The team name is most important. If the name stays, I stay. I would not root for a team in New Jersey.

MikeW reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 14:25

I imagine if this happened you'd have a Cleveland Browns situation - NJ team changes its name, and whatever team slides to Philly resumes as Sixers. Moot point. This isn't happening.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 12:30

No one goes to the games or watches them, of course, but I think there's a lot of excitement and optimism about the rebuild, at least among the faithful.

Chad Ford on Thaddeus Young

I think Young should be able to fetch them quite a bit. He's only 25 years old and I think he's finally coming into his own. I heard the Cavs flirted with trying to acquire him in the Bynum deal, but the Sixers wanted the Cavs first rounder this year to do it. The Cavs balked.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 8 at 14:34

That's a pretty pricey demand.

Philadelphia 76ers ‏@Sixers

Major corporate partner to be announced from @PruCenter tomorrow at 4PM. #Sixers #NJDevils

^ yep it's something nobody cares about

A sponsorship announcement with players of cross-state pro basketball and pro hockey franchises making the scene - "major"...?? Quirky, yes. Fishy too.

If Sixers become the Newark Tolltakers I'm done with them.

funkityfunk on Jan 8 at 14:19

You have to be shitting me. That was the big announcement? What a bunch of boobs.

Wholesome alignment of interests. Gee, it makes a fan proud.

Tray reply to Dollar Bill on Jan 8 at 14:37

Is Iverson there because he's a gambling addict?

Sorry, you've reached your limit.

Is online poker except 'for fun' outlawed in the United States these days? Most of these sites are being sought by the government for crimes too usually?

Anyone who uses the word wholesome in relationship to professional sports is obviously 50 years behind reality

Or so you'd like to believe/put forth, hambone.

MikeW reply to GoSixers on Jan 8 at 15:22

Online gambling is legal in NJ now. So there's reason they are doing this little announcement up there.

Hmm...that's cool to know - does it extend nationwide or do you have to live in New Jersey? I know gambling is spreading everywhere (I was shocked to find out there was a casino in downtown philly when my sister lamented it on facebook), but I always figured poker online would take a while to get legal until the casinos and their lobbyists could figure out a way to monopolize it :)

Now, the only way this would be a 'big' announcement in my mind is if the devils and sixers uniforms would have a party poker patch - like the nascar or EPL uniforms

MikeW reply to GoSixers on Jan 8 at 16:39

I'm almost sure you have to be a NJ resident. The Poker community was hit hardest by national online gambling laws, so it seems these sites might be gradually phased back in. There has never ever ever been a shortage of online sportsbooks though (which often include casino games like Blackjack, Roulette, etc.). They've been going strong since the mid-late 90s (thankfully).

The poker community was the TARGET of the online gambling laws mostly :) Then they went after the offshores as well - blocking access - i had a hard time getting money out back in the day - such a pain to do...poker tends to be seen differently than other casino games cause you are playing 'against' someone...as far as general casino games, I only play blackjack - the odds just suck in everything else :)

the patch would be classy. Maybe the Sixers will change their name to some lame poker term. Like the rivers or something.

Chad Ford on the Parker/Wiggins debate from the sixers point of view

Q: Between Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins who would be the better fit to play with Michael Carter Williams and Nerlens next year in Philly? Chad Ford: Both would be good fits, though I hear Sixers lean toward Wiggins' upside. ESPN.com

He says some are wary of Embid due to his lack of 'career' playing time - and the history of big men busts who pick up the game late.

that's good. i lean toward wiggins as well.

Why? Just curious

To me, Wiggins looks like a guy who's going to take the league over in 3 or 4 years. Everything is very easy for him and he's the type of athlete who can do things humans were never meant to do. Give him a year to figure out the NBA, get beat up a couple times by LeBron and Durant, then he'll figure it out and never look back. The other guys don't have ceilings as high as Wiggins. He's got everything imo.

The Six reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 18:17

Brian, does it concern you at all that there are a number of games where he seems to have little interest in having the ball in his hands down the stretch?

Also, I watch him play, and outside of the fact that he has trouble finishing and he needs to work on his handling (both very correctable), he seems to coast through large parts of the game. Of course he then makes a jaw-dropping athletic play to and I'm like...wow. But the part about not wanting the ball during big parts of some games does concern me a bit. Also, that the coach does not seem too concerned about getting him the ball in those same parts of games.

College basketball is a complete joke. I look for guys who have the elite size/athleticism combo, have a certain grace in their movements (ergo, not Rodney Carney athleticism) and or superior key skills (like shooting). In him, I see all the size/athleticism/grace plus what I think will wind up being a really good jumper and handle. Add it up and that equals the closest thing to a can't miss since LeBron in my book. LeBron and Durant both didn't look like a whole lot at his age if you wanted to pick their games apart. In fact, up until two years ago people said the same thing about LBJ you're saying about Wiggins. Anyone who passes on him in the draft is a moron.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 19:43

So is this grace thing what separates him from Josh Smith, Gerald Green, J.R. Smith, Travis Outlaw, and other tremendously athletic 18 y/o prospects who didn't become superstars?

Tray reply to Tray on Jan 8 at 20:12

Just to name some more, Rudy Gay, Brandon Rush, Pietrus (the "Euro Jordan," Chad Ford said at the time), Dorell Wright, Iguodala, Corey Brewer, Julian Wright.


Tray reply to Brian on Jan 8 at 21:17

Wait, Corey Brewer and Rudy Gay and Josh SMith don't glide around the court gracefully? Brewer's probably only second to LeBron in the league as a dangerous transition finisher. I just don't know why so many people assume Wiggins will develop this skill set that will separte him from virtually every other hyper-athletic swing-man in the league. It's like when David Thorpe says that Giannis is going to be a Paul George/Kevin Durant hybrid in a few years. Well sure, that's one possibility. He also might not develop that way and just end up being a poor man's Kirilenko.

sfw reply to Tray on Jan 8 at 22:08

agree with you. He makes me nervous. Shows no initiative on the offensive side of the ball. He also doesn't finish in traffic. Kind of floats the ball up there.

Not really, no. They're movements are more choppy, especially Gay's. More straight-line, stop-start. LeBron probably falls into that category too, but he's just so damned big and in control of his body it doesn't matter. Guys like Kobe in his prime, Wade, Jordan, and even Barkley for a big guy, they just move differently. Anyway, it's probably in my head and certainly not quantifiable, and in no way am I saying it makes him a sure thing, just saying I think he's going to be special and I think you'd be a fool to pass on him based on anything he does or doesn't do playing a the game in a league that in no way resembles the NBA. There's no fluidity to the college game at all. Teams dribble the air out of the ball, play 30 feet from the hoop and pray someone hits a jumper late in the shot clock. It's not surprising we're only given glimpses of Wiggins amazing athleticism and body control, there are very few times where he's able to display it. This is probably why a guy like Paul George was overlooked. It's a different game more suited to pure shooters and ball-hogging upperclassmen, like Turner.


buke reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 14:17

How many minutes of college basketball have you actually watched during the last three years? I watched a game last night between two mid-level power conference teams and there were plenty of drives to the hoop.

As far as Durant "not looking like much at this age" (a statement of yours from above), that is completely false. He dominated college basketball in his one year in a way that Wiggins has not come close to doing. He even drew comments of being "simply an incredible player" from jaded coaches like Bobby Knight.

Paul George was overlooked because he went to Fresno State, a team that doesn't get much airtime and finished only 15-18 during his final season. And he wasn't really overlooked too much by the people who mattered since he was drafted #10, pretty darned high for a mid-major player.

I think I've been pretty clear in saying I believe it's a shitty product, right? Why would I spend excessive time consuming a shitty product. A product that sends such stellar players a Jhonny Flynn and Evan Turner soaring into the NBA. And congrats on watching a shitty big ten game, pat yourself on the back.

buke reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 18:13

I could care less whether or not you like the college game. My point was that despite your unfamiliarity with the subject, you have no hesitation in pretending to speak with authority about it.

I give me impressions on a few players based on what I've seen, never claim to do more than that. And I'd say my success rate is probably in line with most of the people who watch every minute of a player's collegiate career to inform theirs. I don't care for the style of the NCAA game because it has no style and no flow, and it's lack of flow makes it both unwatchable to me, and an imperfect predictor of NBA success in my opinion. I'm sorry if you enjoy watching a severe lack of talent, athleticism and fundamentals, but I don't see how that's my fault. Wasn't always this way. When good coaches had four years with good players it was a lesser, but viable alternative to the NBA, but any league of which Evan Turner can be named player of the year is obviously laughable.

My impressions.

Well if you could - then you should care less, but if you couldn't care less - you wouldn't have gone on a rant about it

Tray reply to buke on Jan 9 at 15:02

To be fair, George wasn't a wildly successful player at Fresno State. But he was also pretty raw and unproductive his first couple years in the league. Even last year, he shot 41.9% and spent half of the season struggling with his expanded role; his ball-handling was still so undeveloped that his coach told him he wasn't even allowed to try to split defenders after he kept miserably failing at it early in the season. It's only recently become clear that he isn't just another Iguodala. A year ago Brian himself was saying that George and Hibbert wasn't a contending core, and two years ago he couldn't see how the Pacers team that lost in the first round to Chicago was a lot more promising and impressive than our team that lost in the first round to the Heat. So to act like he was just destined to become a superstar because he's a really graceful athlete, whatever that means, is silly. George didn't have to add all this skill to his game, or to succeed in his efforts to do so. I agree with you that, in the absence of actual skill development, there's a huge range of possibilities for how good a long, graceful athlete will become. Thad is long and bouncy and runs the court well, and he's parlayed that into an outstanding career as a roll man, cutter, and finisher. Until this season it looked like that was all he was; now he shoots threes too. But he still can't even play the 3. I would say that Thad never had to be anywhere near this good - he could have always been what he was until this season, he could have not even become that - but that he also could have been better. All I can see with Wiggins right now is a promising range of probabilities

buke reply to Tray on Jan 9 at 18:06

My point was simply that he wasn't overlooked (relatively speaking) because he had some kind of special abilities that weren't suitable for the college game. For a sophomore mid-major player from a program without any particular recent success, he was drafted pretty high.

Remember that former mid-majors John Stockton and Karl Malone were drafted #16 and #13 respectively. Stockton was a senior and Malone was a junior who had made a significant impact in the NCAA tournament. Granted, both of them were part of very strong draft classes unlike George.

Do you see a more promising range of possibilities from any of the other guys we're talking about? And to respond to earlier comment about Durant, he was a hot mess as a rookie.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 9 at 20:53

But Durant was absolutely dominant in college in a way that Wiggins is not.

I'm not saying that means Wiggins is over-hyped or won't be a star. I'm just saying that these other stars were dominant in college. Then again some of them played ,more than a single season cf college ball (and Kobe and Lebron played none.)

I usually call it a combination of size, athleticism, work ethic and IQ in general, but i generally agree with you Brian on Wiggins. He'll be much better in the NBA than in college. He has everything that an elite prospect should have with pretty much zero character red flags (i.e. he's not Beasley, Cousins and the like).

His on court "passivity" has more to do with Kansas scheme and general style of pay in college than his character IMO.

I have not watched enough of Wiggins to comment, but entering the league stars like Lebron, MJ, Wade, Durant and Barkley (among others) were very aggressive and clearly wanted to leave their imprint on a game. The knock on Lebron was that he preferred to set up a teammate as opposed to shooting himself- but he was still the guy who controlled the action. MJ was held back by Dean Smith, but it was well known at the time that MJ was pushing the limits of what he was allowed to do in that system.

Basically these stars had collegiate roles most similar to what we see with Parker... coupled with talent/athleticism more akin to Wiggins. And I don't think any of them filled the complementary type role that Wiggins seems to have accepted thus far.

Not sure if you can get access to any of the various 'online' espn options - but they have kansas / kansas state this weekend

Thanks. I do have access to ESPN3, and have watched parts of some games, but the college game does not seem to be able to maintain my interest until the tourney. The games are just boring to watch IMO.

That's because they suck, in my humble opinion. Even tournament games blow, but they mean something, sort of, so it's dramatic. Who's going to play a less shitty version of basketball tonight?

The problem with this reasoning (and the media is fully responsible for this) is that they expect the next LeBron/MJ/Durant or whatever from Wiggins. Just because he is a special prospect doesn't mean he is that good of a prospect. He was the best high school recruit since LeBron, not as good as LeBron (Durant wasn't as highly valued back than due to his major lack of strength).

And speaking of not being productive enough, has any athletic wing performed better than Wiggins is at the moment in his freshman year at 18? Other than Durant, i don't think there is one...

Geekin' fans bear responsibility for geekin' over someone they know little about absent video clips, geeks' reports, attendant hype. Media gets the ball rollin', sheep follow.

Anyone who knows the game and watched Durant a few times at Texas saw that he was especially talented, bound for bigger things.

Wiggins may make his drafting execs wig out someday, based on a few of my looks at him. Seems comfy riding shotgun. And blows a lot of bunnies. Much ado about something; wouldn't bet on superstardom at present.

The Six reply to Brian on Jan 10 at 0:16

Agree with most of what you say regarding his attributes and potential. As I mentioned, he makes a couple moves a game where you say..."OK that's why he's supposed to go #1". But I still worry about those stretched that he prefers to spectate.

I would disagree with you regarding the comparison to Lebron and Durant. Durant was without question a CLEAR #2 pick overall(because of Oden), and any other year would have been without question the #1 pick. He was dominant at Texas. And while I never saw Lebron in HS, the fact that he took #23 his rookie year tells you all you need to know about his perceived position in the pecking order. That's my only worry about Wiggins. Does he even want to be that guy? He may not. That being said, if you made me GM today, and I had the first pick, I would still select Wiggins No 1. I just wish the decision would be as easy as the initial hype indicated it would be.

The Six reply to The Six on Jan 10 at 0:27


eddies' heady's reply to The Six on Jan 10 at 10:26

"I just wish the decision would be as easy as the initial hype indicated it would be."

Totally agree. And in my book, as it currently stands now, it's far from it.

Having a hard time seeing any 'star' in that kid at the moment. Memories of Harrison Barnes and Tyreke Evans keep popping up.

Some competition in the evan turner trade market as the knicks are supposedly trying to find a way to shed jr smith...you know - cause they just 'had' to re-sign him.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 8 at 19:04

Well I'd much rather have Smith, but hopefully some teams don't see it that way.

Lorenzo brown assigned to the sevens again

@tmoore76ers #Sixers Lavoy Allen (calf) questionable for Friday game vs. Pistons.

Oh no! How to replace him?!

If Darryl Dawkins was in Newark today, he could push Drummond and Monroe some tomorrow. #53... descend from Lovetron for duty... fans could use the laughs.

Chris Christie could use the exercise and stress release. Is bumptious by nature; might be effective in the lane.

@ESPNSteinLine Story going online now: ESPN sources say Suns G Eric Bledsoe out indefinitely after team determines Bledsoe needs surgery on right knee

Lorenzo brown recalled from the d-league

So, they are changing their mind on a daily basis now? They are really pushing the limits on this one...

they sent him down yesterday so he could play in a game and recalled him for tonight's game


Actually they sent him OVER, not down... to Reno, Nevada... to play the Texas Legends (including Penn Charter/UVA's Sean Singletary; 1-9, 7 rbs, 2 A, 4 ST, 2 TO and Church Farm/Temple's Michael Eric; DNPCD).

Lorenzo didn't clown around, requalified for Sixers: 9-19, 7 rbs, 1 A, 4 TO, minus 10.

Legends 113 - 87ers 108

National anthem was sung by Carrot Top.

jrue has a stress fracture in his tibia, out indefinitely

Bad for him, good for us. Tyreke hero ball is going to be running wild in New Orleans.

I don't like to hear that about Jrue. I am looking forward to next year when we have no ties to the success of the Pelicans. I would like to see Jrue maximize his talent with a guy like Anthony Davis.

I think Hinkie may be testing the limits with the D League call up/down system. Is there any limit to number of games a guy can play? I assume he just wants to maximize reps for some of these guys, and I know the D League showcase may have been a place where Hinkie could boost Brown's value. Although Givony's tweet yesterday about Zo Brown being absolutely silent on the court might not help that.

Some college hoops observations from watching the recent games:

1. Wiggins: The consensus that is forming on this board seems to be the one I am seeing. As Brian and others have mentioned, there is no match for the athletic ability this guy has. And he does give you flashes during the game, but the overall effort level and intensity is just lacking. It will make you pull your hair out watching him for the first 35 minutes of a game. When Wiggins locks in on defense, its a whole new story. I really can't figure this guy out. Brian, I know it would pain you to watch some college hoops, but find some time to watch a Kansas game. I think your view may change a bit.

2. Lavine: Even though he has been lackluster in the big games, I saw him lock in for man to man defense last night against Zona. Major potential there. Very questionable how he will fit in on offense though. Needs to put on some weight.

3. Vonleh: This is a guy I expect to move up the draft charts. I would not be shocked to see a team take him ahead of Randle when its all said and done (not that I agree with that pick, but I could see that developing). Definitely raw, but you can see the bulk he has put on and the potential his body has. He gives effort, plays fairly smart, and is still finding his aggressiveness.

I have a tough time filtering through Gary Harris, James Young, Zach Lavine and Wayne Selden Jr for that second pick.

no limit on how often teams can send someone to the d-league

I'm watching one of the sixers mouthpieces talking about this big partypoker deal. What a joke. They basically sold advertising to party poker, and they sold access to their legends. Like play poker with Allen Iverson. Fucking jokers.

You're 50 years behind the times. :)

He said nothing about having any sort of 'moral' problem with it now did he?

It's not a big announcement. There was no need to herald it in advance. It's a way to get some money...no more interesting than a public appearance at a sporting goods store or a mall.

Not explicitly, but "what a joke" suggests a rejection of the proposal for unsoundness of some type, wouldn't you say, Baywatch? And the closing, modifying imprecation suggests at least a healthy degree of indignation, if not the beginning of a crusade. For your absolute certainty, Chaucer, you'll have ask to Brian, the generator.

I don't have a problem w/ online gambling. I think this type of move (and the rarity of weekend day games) just shows the NBA is moving further and further away from being a family-focused league, and I think that's a mistake, but i don't object to the deal on any moral level. I do, however, think it's a joke that they tried to build mystery around this big announcement, which basically amounts to an advertising deal and Sixers spokesmen shilling for a fucking poker site.

I have a problem with it. There's something fundamentally wrong with the crossovers - Sixers & Devils, NBA & gambling promotion. Neither pairing belong. Big greed/fast hustle - king of the mountain. Not consulted: Alex Karras, Paul Horning, Denny McClain, Pete Rose, Rick Tocchet (sp?), Jerry Tarkanian, Connie Hawkins, a couple guys on the '61 St. Joe's Hawks.

McLain (I bet this spelling is the winner).

McLain (I bet this spelling is the winner).

no lavoy(sore calf) tonight and tomorrow

wroten back tonight

This is a pretty winnable game, unfortunately. Detroit has a lousy offense and lousier defense, but more importantly it can't make threes (31.3%!), and giving them up is our defensive specialty. Then again, we can't handle Drummond. The slightly comforting news is that they're closer to being a .500 team on the road than at home (8-10 vs. just 6-12 at home).

eddies' heady's on Jan 10 at 18:50

Last time, these guys manhandled them, Drummond had a field day. Might the team happen upon a 2 game win streak on this home and home?

I'd say it's very possible. Likely even. But wouldn't be surprised if they shit the bed both times either.

Can't tell which team you mean.

anderson starting for thompson


10-2 start

mcw bucket

make it a 12-2 run TO pistons

part of the run was et hitting a corner 3 cause mcw posted up jennings and they doubled him

et 3 good extra pass from spence

sissy 3

et hits 2 ft

mcw floater

live with the smith 3

of course he hits another 1

nice d by singler.

wroten to the line

pistons look really lazy on defense

davies putback

2 on hawes

2 on davies

thad at center right now

Monroe's got some shoulders.

up 8 end of the 1st

thad 3

3 on davies

back to thad at center

20 ft for the pistons already

mcw tip in

sissy 3

getting killed on the boards

up 8 at the half

16 o-rebounds for the pistons at the half

early time out for the sixers

7-0 run for the pistons cuts the lead to 5

jennings 3 lead down to 2


jennings 3 pistons up 1

good drive by anderson

t on drummond

death by offensive rebounds

down 3 end of the 3rd

wroten to the line

some good minutes here from Elliott williams

sissy 3

will bynum causing all types of problems with the p/r

thad putback

Turner gave a delightful interview to the Pottstown Mercury. He expresses optimism that he'll get lots of playing time wherever he goes, saying:

“I feel like I can figure out a way to get on the court,” Turner said. “I feel like anytime you can get your own shot, you’ll get shots. You know what I’m saying? People don’t like to say it much, but people judge people on how they score. That’s what sells tickets. That’s what sells all this cool stuff."

We also learn that he doesn't think he'll be coming off the bench next year because:

"I don’t see that occurring because, in my mind, I’m one of the best perimeters out right now. I feel like I’ve always been one of them.”

lost by 10

vs the knicks without chandler tomorrow

Josh Smith had 22, 13, 7, 4 steals, and 5 blocks tonight. Not even counting the points, how many other players have had such a line (since 1985)? Just one - Olajuwon, three times. But he also shot 8-23 from the field and dropped his field goal percentage to .396 for the year. (His TS% sat at .456 going into the night.) This factoid has been brought to you by the Not Every Once-in-a-Generation Athlete Becomes a Superstar (Or Even a Very Good Player) Foundation.

By the way, Boston lost their last seven and is now 13-24, a half game better than us. Reports say Rondo will be back by the 17th. Who knows how much better that makes them, though. The Bucks have gone 1-6 since Sanders came back.

Keeping fingers crossed that somehow the Sixers can lose enough games this year. Trades can't come soon enough IMO.

This Kansas offense is a joke. Wiggins is the best guy in this draft.

Well, they did just put up 45 points against the 9th ranked defense in the country :)

My guess is your and Self's goals are slightly difference.