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What Might Have Been...

It is stranmge that had they lost to the Clippers and GSW in respectable fashion and then lost to the Jazz by 5 then no one bats an eye. Yet on the flip side, they could beat the Jazz and end up worse in their tannking, but some people will still be upset about how badly they lost those two games.

I really don't get the big deal about losing 2 games badly. 2 games on the road against far superior teams. Aren't a few bad losses like that to be expected?

It doesn't make a difference to me how much they win or lose by. It should matter to the players, I mean, if they have a shred of pride they should be pissed and extra motivated. I expect Turner to crawl deeper into his shell. Expect Thad to play his ass of tonight, not sure about MCW, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder, in a good way. Hawes is always a question mark.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 12 at 9:33
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I'm sure both PG's will really be pumped for this matchup.

They're in a heated battle for least efficient scoring PG in the league! link.

To be fair rookie point guards aren't exactly known for efficiency. Link.

A great list of scoring inefficiency highlighted by ex Sixers:
http://bkref.com/tiny/ngIoF

In the 3 pt era, seasons with PPG over 17 and eFG% und 43%. 35 seasons, AI the only player to do it more than twice. Stackhouse, DC, Mashburn, J. Oneil the only others to do it twice. MCW and John Wall the only players with career averages (although oddly Wall never has met criteria for a single season, as his efficiency went up as his scoring improved.)

Brian, do you think they could have won that series against Boston a couple years ago, had they had Favors instead of Turner?
If so, do you think they keep Collins as coach? They also probably wouldn't have rolled the dice on Bynum. We'd have a very different looking sixers team today.

What might have been...what? Favors is having a career year as a role player on an abysmal team.

Favors' per-minute and advanced stats (PER, WS/48, Reb%, even usage rating) are all pretty much the same over the last 3 years. He's just getting more minutes due to roster changes.

He's not a dominant player, but he's also still only 22. He's a very useful piece.

To Brian's credit, he had Favors over Turner at the time of the draft. I recall getting into a couple of discussions about it on SixersBeat. Not that I was a Favors detractor (I had him at #3), but Brian was high on him fron the get-go.

He would have been the better pick but he's nothing special. Some people are making it sound as if the Sixers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.

Besides we all know at this point Brian would much rather have taken DeMarcus Cousins (who I felt was the #2 talent in the draft at the time warts and all but obviously I don't think the Kings have worked out what his issues are)

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 12 at 11:40
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How is it obvious that they haven't worked out Cousins's issues? What's the last time Cousins did anything crazy behavior-wise? He's having a very good, borderline All-Star season, and would be an All-Star in the East. He's still a terrible defensive player though, but I'm not sure if that stems from his "issues."

the jazz are 17-22 when burke plays

17-20 when he starts

those records arent anything special but when healthy they are better than the sixers

The Sixers would have beaten Boston back in 2012. The Sixers would have never traded for Bynum but they would have still traded Iguodala. Iguodala would have probably been dealt for someone like Arron Afflalo and the Sixers would have drafted Chris Singleton instead of Vucevic. Collins would still be coaching.

Lineup:

Hawes
Favors
Singleton
Afflalo
Holiday

T. Young
Williams
Harkless

I think Collins would've been gone anyway. Harris was going to make that change during the summer no matter what IMO. He wanted a different approach for the team. I also would like to think they still would've drafted Vucevic. The Sixers have generally drafted BPA, so i don't see any reason why they would've avoided Vucevic for Singleton (like they drafted Harkless with Iguodala still in town).

So i'm looking at

Holiday
? (Afflalo for Iguodala)
Harkless
Favors
Vucevic

with MCW and Young off the bench

It's far from a contender but it's the type of team that Hinkie would've rolled with IMO. THere are enough assets there to make subsequent trades. I don't think he would've chosen tanking here...

I forgot to add Hawes on the bench as well.

And they may have rolled a starting lineup of

MCW
Holiday
Afflalo
Favors
Vucevic
(Harkless, Young, Hawes on the bench)

It's an interesting team that could be pretty good at some point down the road.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 12 at 14:05
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I thought Vuce was a Doug pick and that no one in the world thought Vuce was the BPA.

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Stan reply to Tray on Feb 12 at 14:15
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I think Doug took Vuce because he didn't know what would happen to Hawes and because Vuce was the tallest player in the draft and had potential as a jump shooter.

Wasn't/Isn't Collins more of a 'defense first' kind of guy?

@Lockedonsports Jazz move to 15-9 when healthy and playing with full squad.

thats from the jazz's radio guy

Thought they were below .500 with Burke. Who are these members of the full squad who've been out in games and move them up to 15-9, I wonder?

i have no clue just found that interesting

no Hollis tonight

The most likely outcomes if the Sixers had picked Favors instead of Turner:

1. The Sixers lose in the first round of the 2010 playoffs.
2. Favors is traded to the Magic instead of Vuce
3. Collins is still Sixers coach and they are slightly below .500 in 2014, battling for a 4 seed in the East.
4. No MCW, Nerlens Noel or Wroten
5. The Sixers 2013 draft - Shabazz Muhammad
5. Starters Holiday, N. Young, Hawes, T. Young, Vucevic. Bench: Kwame Brown, Damien Wilkins
7. Outlook is a 7-9 seed for the next 5 years with no lottery pick in sight.

You say no Wroten like that's a bad thing. Wroten is excruciatingly terrible.

But he gets there in a hurry! Love his assists to turnover numbers (138/131). At least he tries. To score. Floormates need insurance for his passes. Or helmets. Rims groan as he releases J. Only 20. Credit for gusto. Needs Clair Bee tutorial.

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Stan reply to TNT on Feb 12 at 18:51
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In 2011 Favors gets traded to Orlando for Dwight Howard. For one year we have this lineup:

Dwight Howard
Nikola Vucevic
Andre Iguodala
Jason Richardson
Jrue Holiday

Louis Williams
Thaddeus Young
Jodie Meeks

Sixers lose to Miami in the Eastern Conference finals. Howard decides to opt out in 2012, Iguodala opts out in 2013.

Orlando does not trade Favors for howard (not to mention the dollars don't work)

Let's go, Sixers. The big part of the jock strap goes to the front side. You too, Spencer.

favors blows the layup

frustration fouled spence

mcw bucket

et jumper

hawes block and finish on the other end

thad bucket

first lead since friday!

et to the line

split them

mcw to thad

bad shot anderson

jefferson on the run out

thad bucket

mcw floater

mcw to the line

split them

et blocked

wroten to et

et to the line

made both

et turnover

evans dunk

hawes turnover

et jumper

down 9 end of the first

Favors hurt his hip and will not return

McW d'ing up Burke nicely?

a little bit

burks got that bump and fall back draw the foul that lou williams always does down nice

williams to the line

made both

thad to the line

split them

anderson 3

mcw to lavoy

lavoy bucket

gobert is so long

et floater

mcw to the line

made both

down 8 at the half

good half from mcw, hope it continues

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eddies' heady's on Feb 12 at 22:16
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I never thought there'd be a day or a week when I'd have pretty much zero to no interest to watch the Sixers play.

Welcome to today and the last week. So glad when this motherfucker is over.

anderson steal

turnover

jefferson dunk

et jumper

sissy 3

bad shot mcw

mcw to hawes who dunked!

nice move by evan

mcw floater

lavoy to the locker room

thad to the line

split them

left knee soreness for lavoy

down 9 end of the 3rd

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Big Will on Feb 12 at 22:51
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Moultre stuffed by Hayward to end the 3rd.

thad steal

thad 3 from mcw

sissy jumper

nice move by evan

mcw bucket

Sixers doing their best at playin some D

sissy tip in after costing mcw an AST

mcw and 1

going to the line to try to tie the game

made the ft

tie game

burks bucket

et miss

burks and 1

made the ft

hawes slop hits the backboard

burks makes both ft

damn nice play but hawes missed the 3

burks 9-0 run

down 9 22 seconds left

anderson 3 being reviewed

burks splits the ft

anderson 3

down 4

i cant wait til they have actually players, brown draws up some really good plays

anderson 3

down 3

hayward makes both ft

lost by 5

all star break, next game is tuesday vs the cavs who have won 4 in a row

Holy crap! This guy has Marcus Smart dropping to #14 link

I don't like Smart, but I don't see how you could pass on him at #11.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 13 at 11:25
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Overreaction to the overblown incident the other night.

I think he should've been suspended for much longer, but he probably learned his lesson. Hopefully.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 13 at 11:55
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I wouldn't have suspended him at all, if the fan really said what Smart told his coaches he said. If he didn't really say it and Smart made that up, that seems like a bigger problem than his anger issues.

Eh. My guess is there wasn't anything racial, and Smart was covering for his overreaction. No matter what was said, he needed to be suspended.

To be honest this is a little ridiculous to me. Are American athletes that really that mentally weak? I mean, in Europe (and pretty much everywhere else) fans call the players from the guest teams all kinds of names and what not. The environment is as hostile as it gets. And the athletes never pay any attention to it, which is the way it's supposed to be. Who cares what fans are shouting to throw you off your game. Just be professional and play. It's just empty words...

What i am trying to say is, there's no excuse for what Smart did. That being said, i'm not sure it warrants much attention. Most likely it's a matter of youth...

Smart is in the wrong, but he is also not getting paid and his university and the NCAA are taking in over 1 billion dollars a year for TV rights. I hold "professionals" to a higher standard than "amateurs." I also think the media should be less intrusive into the lives of college players for this same reason.

He's getting a scholarship to play for that school isn't he? That's still some kind of payment.

Anyway, i don't think this impacts how he should be viewed as a prospect at all, but i do think athletes in any sport should know better almost regardless of age. It's not like he's 16. There is no excuse for such behavior.

I don't agree with what Smart did - he shouldn't have reacted but your 'we do it in europe all the time' is asinine - ignorant racist xenophobes populates almost every nation of europe and for some reaon you people take soccer WAY too seriously - and oh yeah - these guys get paid for it and he doesn't

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 13 at 21:01
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Much like the US, I don't think you can fairly generalize about European countries. You are going to have varying amounts of open and closed minded individuals in every city and nation. And a lot will be dictated by circumstance and personal experience.

First of all, as tk76 explained to you, you are making generalizations about Europe which are inaccurate.

Second, you are completely missing the point. This is not about racism at all. It's about an athlete overreacting to a WORD. It doesn't matter what he was called. Why should racist words have a higher importance than other really terrible curse words (and trust me you have no idea to what length fans can go here)?

And most important of all, just because fans use dirty tricks to try and get under the skin of the players and throw them off their game (doesn't matter whether they are racist or other type) doesn't mean they are actually racist or whatever? It's a thing fans do to help their team in any way they can. Is it classy? NO, but they are not breaking any law. Is it something that a player should react on? Again NO.

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buke reply to Tray on Feb 13 at 14:36
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Both parties were wrong, but Smart was a little more wrong. There are thousands of fans in an arena and chances are that more than a few are going to shout things that are over-the-line to one degree or another. A player can't react to all of them so better to shut all of them out.

That fan should get a good talking to and warning by the university authorities as well. Even if he said nothing like what Smart described, he shouldn't be antagonizing opposing young players who are filled with competitive fire. In the long run, I think the fan probably will suffer more embarrassment for this. Some 50+ year old guy should know better.

There's video of exactly what he said to Smart, btw. link.

I couldn't find a story about what Smart said the fan said, but there's evidence backing up Orr's story.

Um - what exactly do you hear on the video aside from cheering and then booing and some CRAPPY video - that video provides no actual reliable evidence fo anything

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TwoSense reply to GoSixers on Feb 13 at 22:09
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If you listen closely you can clearly hear Orr say 'you piece of crap'.

You don't even have to listen that closely, you can hear it clearly, he called him a piece of crap. The damning thing, in my mind, is that Orr wasn't really that close to him. It's not like Smart landed in his lap and just sort of shoved him in the heat of the moment. He was still a couple of rows up, Smart had his back to him turned around and took a couple of steps to get to him. That's enough time to get your composure after the play.

And in response to the comment below, it doesn't take much time to realize you fucked up and try to come up with an excuse. Seems like he figured the race card gets you out of most things, just bad luck that what Orr actually said was on tape.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 13 at 21:27
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I think he was talking to Smart all game.

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Steve reply to Tray on Feb 13 at 21:32
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You can read Smart's lips as he's being pulled away by teammates, pointing at the "fan" and saying "Don't call me N-word".

I kind of doubt he had the foresight in the immediate moments following the confrontation to make the whole thing up in that moment to cover for shoving the guy.

That was by far the best game MCW has played in the last month. Hope to see him get his game back the last third of the season. That and a bottom 3 record would be a worthwhile season, as losing seasons go.

Not really sure anyone else on the active roster really matters going forward, which is pretty typical early in a rebuild. None of Iverson's rookie teammates remained on the roster 2 years later.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 13 at 18:57
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Since this Embiid kid is getting more pub, and rightly so, I think they should go ahead and play Nerlens Noel the last 30 games in limited mintues. Mostly for the franchise's benefit, but also for his. Would seem to be more prudent to see what little they can of him (assuming he is in fact ready to play live action) to better determine what they may have or may need to do going forward. It's not like playing him is going to jeopardize the in-effect tank or anything. He won't come close to moving the needle in only limited minutes.

the sixers only have 28 games left

i agree on playing him if hes ready to return but it would tough to judge how good/bad he is cause of the small sample and it takes time to shake off the rust after not having in game action in a while

I think they will play him at the end of the season something like late March, early April.

Whether the 50 yr old fan used the race derogative or the character derogative, he's an idiot. Smart is at peak emotional pitch at that point in 2-pt. game, lands dangerously in the stands and fields fairly intimate and blatant invective from a goober. Reflexive push, understandable. Much ado about not much in name of entertainment, for capital gain. What would you do if you were in Smart's identical situation?

Most sensible dollar bill post ever. I'm not sure why we hold college athletes to a higher standard than we would ourselves in similar circumstances.

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buke reply to Tray on Feb 14 at 9:53
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No one is holding him to a higher standard. A player who goes after an ornery fan in the stands makes a major mistake. There will always be sports fans who behave like they are at a cockfight. The appropriate remedy is to have them warned or tossed if they behave badly enough. This incident really wasn't that bad and maybe two parties learned a valuable lesson in self control from it.

I would just ignore it and continue with the game. Who cares what a fan in the stands calls me...

Looking and NBA teams currently below .500, which teams are in better position than the Sixers to become good in the next 3 years?

Ignoring front offices and coaches, I'd say New Orleans, Detroit and the Cleveland. But Cleveland will mess itself up further as long as they have poor ownership and management.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Feb 13 at 21:45
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Orlando- The have Oladipo, Vucevic, Harkless, Harris, a bottom 3 record, and either Denver or NYK's 1st round pick (both teams are in the lottery).

Boston- They have 10 first round draft picks in the next 5 years (1 from Phi, 1 from LAC, 3 from BKY, and 5 of their own)

Well in theory, most of them are in a better spot right now. A lot of them have multiple core pieces already in place, whereas the Sixers have maybe one (MCW) and another potential one with a huge question mark (Noel). The key ingredient here is the 2014 draft and the teams that will hit on their picks will separate from the others.

Also the Sixers are in the best cap situation of them all, but it's difficult to quantify how much that means at the moment as a lot of the others can get in a solid financial situation by 2015.

Really the biggest reason why the Sixers are highly regarded right now is their combination of cap space and management, and that's not something that's easy to evaluate.

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MojoSoDope reply to Xsago on Feb 14 at 10:35
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Trying to understand something here.. if Hinkie is so well thought of and highly regarded as this maestro -- still trying to figure out by whomelse but the fanbase... but anyway -- why didn't someone else in the league hire him before the 6ers did?

He's fairly highly regarded around the league as i understand it. As for why he wasn't hired earlier i think it's a function of three major points:
1. Unwillingness of some of the other teams to go fully with the ultra modern analytics movement that Hinkie is part of
2. Hinkie himself wouldn't have accepted a position where he didn't feel like he will have total control and will be left to do as he thinks is right (remember Hinkie was actually offered the Sixers job a year earlier, but he declined because of Doug Collins and his influence)
3. Most teams already have long term GMs that they are satisfied with

I don't think Smart's shove is something that's going to be held against him by NBA GMs. If he had punched the guy, went out of control, or had a history of this it would be a different story. If I'm an NBA GM I look at whether a player is disciplined enough to work on his game, mature enough to stay out of trouble, and how well he can work with his teammates. A 19 year old shoving a fan who insulted him right after the team pretty much lost the game doesn't give me a clear indication of his character or how he can handle the NBA for the next 10-15 years.

I don't think Jeff Orr is a terrible person. It's unclear what he said but you can see that he apologized as soon as Smart confronted him.

Anyway, my favorite part of the video was the wife's reaction. It's like she just witnessed a murder and she's about to tell the teacher what just happened. I don't know why but it always makes me chuckle when I see that.

If I had my choice, I am moving in the direction of Wiggins and Saric with the two picks. As far as Saric goes, I have only seen the draftExpress clips on him(and then read some additional info), but at 6'10 to move the way he does, plus the IQ - if he drops to the 10-12 range I would be all over him. This team would be so exciting to watch next year the way they would get up and down the court.

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TwoSense reply to The Six on Feb 14 at 10:46
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Exciting? Yeah maybe. But would they play any defense?

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The Six reply to TwoSense on Feb 14 at 11:25
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I have to think Noel alone will allow better perimeter play. Wiggins and MCW would certainly improve the overall D as well. So yes, I could better (not great) defense at that early stage.

I'm not going to pass on Saric because he may not be an NBA caliber defender at this time.

I'm against Saric but i'm not super excited about him either. He's a very difficult guy to project to the NBA. In a way, he's somewhere in the middle between Jabari Parker and Kyle Anderson as a prospect which more or less are reflected in his mid to late lottery rankings. Physically he's taller and faster than both but he is also worse in terms of size and strength. I really don't know, he might be great or he might be completely unsuitable for the NBA. One interesting potential comparison i've heard of - his compatriot Toni Kukoc.

As for his defense, for FWIW, he has surprisingly quick hands and racks up a solid amount of steals and blocks. He's a high basketball IQ guy so that probably has something to do with it.

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The Six reply to Xsago on Feb 14 at 12:30
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I think that Kukoc comp comes from his ability to see the floor so well and make the smart pass. I love this kid.

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Stan reply to The Six on Feb 14 at 13:09
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I'm hoping they take Wiggins and Gary Harris with their first two picks. And then package their 2nd round pick and whatever they get for Hawes/Turner to move up for Montrezl Harrell. Harrell reminds me of Kenneth Faried.

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The Six reply to Stan on Feb 14 at 16:23
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My only problem with Harris (because I believe he is a legit prospect) is that tweener size (6'4 SG?). We already have a 6'6 PG, I want "big" at the other spots as well.

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eddies' heady's reply to The Six on Feb 15 at 11:57
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On the size note, I tend to agree, so what about PJ Hairston with that second lottery pick? He's definitely the shooter you'd be looking for there but not sure he can guard these quick athletic guys at this level. He can't have any worse lateral movement than James Anderson can he?

Noel back there to cover for any perimeter deficiencies makes PJ sound even better. Philly doesn't have good weed though do they...

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The Six reply to eddies' heady's on Feb 16 at 2:25
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Yeah interesting you mention him. I just started to look at him. He can sure shoot. And I agree that with Noel back there you can have a less athletic guy, even though Hairston seems like a willing defender. I came to the conclusion that I would target Hairston if we could find a way to obtain a third first rd pick. I would love to hear from those who know more about him. Does he still have those off the field concerns or is the perception that he has "matured"? I don't know.

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eddies' heady's reply to The Six on Feb 16 at 10:47
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If your plan is to use only the possibly acquired third first round pick to get him then it won't happen. I think he's going in the late lottery or shortly thereafter. That much size with that lethal of a shot will be hard to pass up for some teams.

Guess he's no more mature than the majority of these kids this age. He has his usual "posse" and hangers-on that he still surrounds himself with. He's a known weed-smoker and alcohol drinker, typical college kid stuff. I'd venture a guess that in this day and age half the league or more are partakers in drinking and puffing, it's not taboo anymore.

That said, he does need to mature especially distancing himself from the ego-stroking clique. Getting away from home and North Carolina (he grew up in Greensboro only 30 minutes from Chapel Hill) could aide in that. If you wanted a starting SG going forward and a backcourt mate for MCW I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on him with the New Orleans pick. Really think he's going to translate that well and be that good IF he can reign in his focus and determination and shed the teenage stuff.

Ultra-modernistas, what are the analytic tools that measure the stupidity of Hawes's preference for Obamanian toilet paper and the enmity of Turner's public betrayal of teammate confidence? Is it the Beavis and Butt-head meter? How does Hinkie get a handle on the development? And will this impact the trade value of these two core Sixers veterans?


Dollar Bill, despite our warnings, today's young people often put anything of amusement on facebook, twitter, or some other social platform. And Hawes isn't exactly ashamed of his views. He twitted about America becoming the Soviet Union (something he's not even old enough to remember) after the Supreme Court upheld the health care act.

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Tray reply to buke on Feb 14 at 20:34
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Hyperbolic views about healthcare reform are one thing and wiping your ass with a picture of your President is another. He should really be pretty pissed at Turner for putting that on Instagram, or pissed at himself for letting Turner do it. There are at least a couple owners in the nba who wouldn't sign him over that, and some players who won't like playing with him over that.

Sure, because up until now he's kept his right wing gun toting view to himself...he's never hidden the fact that he's an ignorant redneck

The more talented you are the more you can get away with - that's the American way - he's talented enough (and tall enough cause you can't teach height) that someone will give him money - maybe up in the pacific northwest where they idolize him anyway

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 14 at 22:46
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You never really respond to or understand what the other person was saying. Number one, I said a few owners won't pay him now, not that he won't get paid. The market for him may be slightly diminished. There are some very liberal owners, some very liberal fanbases, and some players may have issues with their teams signing him. It could give a few teams second thought, at least. Number two, again, there is a difference between his political views, which are standard fox news/talk radio stuff and not terribly offensive (though arguably stupid), and this crap with the toilet paper, which is an incredibly offensive way of stating his views. No one said that his views were some kind of secret until now.

so expressing one's personal views in the privacy of their own home is now incredibly offensive eh? or is that just because it's counter to your views?

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Steve reply to das411 on Feb 14 at 23:16
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Yes, wiping your a$$ with the President of the United States face on your toilet paper is incredibly offensive. Regardless of political views. Have some respect for the office, Spence.

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buke reply to Tray on Feb 15 at 9:48
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His chances of being signed by the Bulls might have approached zero. Golden State or Boston might be less likely too. He has been rumored to be a target of Dallas. This might be a net positive for him in that area.

On the whole, though, I don't think this will be remembered very long.

oklahoma city might be a cultural fit for hawes. don't suppose there are any voting precincts down (and across) there where romney got zero (0) votes, unlike some in philadelphia. tornadoes could wreak havoc with his beloved 3 point push shot though. safe to say, his market value is decreasing excrementally.

Your point was idiotic, per usual. Former criminals get contracts if they can play the cam - convicted felons start for the Philadelphia Eagles.

How much money did your parents have to donate for Duke to lower its admissions standards?

If Ilyasova is available, I'd like the Sixers to make an offer. He's got a fair contract and he's young. I'd put out feelers of Hawes/Turner for him, gets MIL cap flexibility after this year.

Why are his numbers so horrible this year?

Shit team? Poor coaching? Not really sure, but he's coming off 44% and 45% from three over the past two seasons, he's always been a good rebounder. This year looks like a blip to me rather than something else. I'd take the shot, $7.9M for the next two years, then $8.4M, but the final year isn't guaranteed. If MIL just wants to get out of the contract and free up some space, give them expiring contracts for him and take the shot. If he hits, you've got a nice complimentary piece at a good price and you didn't have to give up anything to get him. He'd be about 30-31 when the team was coming together (assuming they get their star this summer and he's legit), and you're going to need some guys with experience. Low risk, high reward.

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Rusty reply to Brian on Feb 16 at 13:03
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I agree that you want to be in that top 3 and Exum is a wildcard at 4. The top guys could be special.

I expect Randle to fall come draft day and, while I don't like him in the top 4, I love him after that. I understand the measurements but I expect him to translate as a good to really good PF. I think he can develop range and he will not back down in terms of bruising. And honestly I hate Turner's penchant for nowhere drives only to get stuffed by a guy who doesn't jump but ultimately I think it's a different story for Randle as a 4. He probably won't command doubles which opens things up and I saw what he did against a legitimate Michgan State frontline.

I'm also all out on Lavine. He has completely fallen off after that quick start. But I do want a legitimate shooter with our Peli's or early 2nd round pick.

"I agree that you want to be in that top 3 and Exum is a wildcard at 4. The top guys could be special."

Well, I don't consider Exum a wildcard. In fact, he's in my top 3.

You have seen him so I will take your word for it. I guess I am just saying this from my experience watching the other guys. Did Exum play against Smart this summer ? You think he is ultimately a 2 in the league (Exum)?

I've been playing around with Ford's mock lottery/draft. According to him, he has the Sixers' board set up like this:

1. Wiggins
2. Parker
3. Embiid
4. Randle
5. ??????

I wouldn't be happy if they came away with Randle. I think they have to be in the top four to come away with one of Embiid, Wiggins, Parker or Exum. Think there's a big dropoff after those four, and I really have Exum only on the cusp. Really want one of Embiid, Wiggins or Parker.

For the second pick, LaVine is still my guy.

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The Six reply to Brian on Feb 16 at 2:39
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Brian - after seeing in Turner what the disadvantages are of being just an "average" athlete at this level, are you at all gun shy about drafting a guy like Parker who isn't quite the athlete that others are? From that perspective he scares the shit out of me. I don't ever want to make that mistake again. Now I understand that Parker from a talent perspective is the most polished player in the entire draft. But I'm wary of spending another top 5 pick on a guy who isn't an above average to elite athlete. I think if Embid and Wiggins are gone, I go to Exum.

Parker seems like a truly exceptional scorer to me, something that's more rare than you think in the league, I see it translating. I'd like to see him go up against some really long, athletic defenders, but I feel pretty confident in him, and I honestly think he would be the best fit for the team if your hope is to incorporate this pick with Noel, MCW and Thad. Wiggins might take some time to become that #1 offensive option, or never get there. Embiid can't play alongside Noel (unless Embiid is going to be the one who steps away from the hoop, but that negates his strength IMO), don't think Exum is going to be a great scoring threat any time soon. Parker would take offensive scoring pressure off the other guys and allow them to concentrate on becoming the best at what they do.

If Parker pans out, this roster can really sort of gel in a traditional way, but with Wiggins they could be just so much fun to watch.

At the end of the day, there's a lot to get excited about with any of those top four, not so much with Randle.

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Stan reply to Brian on Feb 16 at 11:02
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I agree. I would be very disappointed if the Sixers took Julius Randle with their first pick. He might get better in the NBA with better floor spacing but his jumpshot is still nothing special, he still has an average wingspan and he can barely get off shots at the rim. Imagine seeing him try to get the same shots off against a 7'0 NBA center who has a 7'4 wingspan. There are a lot of question marks with that guy. Part of me would rather take Vonleh or Gordon over Randle.

What are the guarantees as far as worst record(s) and pick positioning? Is it worst record equals no worse that top 3 pick? Second worst guaranteed top 5 pick?

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Stan reply to The Six on Feb 16 at 11:41
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This chart pretty much tells you your chances of getting a pick based on how the team was ranked based on worst records-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draft_lottery#Process

So the worst team in the NBA has the following chances:
#1 pick- 25%
#2 pick- 21.5%
#3 pick- 17.8%
#4 pick- 35.7%

So the team with the worst record can't a pick that's #5 or below. They have a better chance at getting the #4 pick than the #1 pick but they have the best chance at getting the #1 pick than any other team in the lottery.

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The Six reply to Stan on Feb 16 at 14:24
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OK thanks

Some big drop off points:

Chances of getting a top 4 pick:
Worst record: 100%
2nd worst: 88%
3rd worse: 70%
4th worse: 48%
5th worse: 30%

Chances of getting a top 3 pick:
Worst record: 64%
2nd worst: 56%
3rd worse: 47%
4th worse: 38%
5th worse: 29%

There seems to be a big drop bewteen the 3rd and 4th worst records, to where you are relying on a bit of luck to get a top pick with the 4st worst record, while the odds are at least in your favor with a bottom 3 record. Having a worse record than bottom 3 has a bit of diminishing return.

Brian is talking about the top prospects and fit, and I think you need to take into account the great impact defensively of interior defenders as compared to wing defenders. It is rare for a team to have 2 truly elite interior defenders who bring the total package of rim protection, rebounding and agility.

To have this in both your C and PF is a game changer- like what Detroit had with the Wallaces, to where the opponents stop even trying to drive and rely on jump shots, dropping their scoring by more than 10 points a game. This gives you the luxury on offense to not be quite as concerned by fit, especially as those types of bigs tend to create more fast breaks, be high percentage finishers and generate second chance offense off of O-boards.

Now this might not fit with Brett Brown (and Hinkie's) vision of where the NBA is headed. But I would hope they would be a bit flexible in their thinking. The NBA may be headed towards more stretch 4's, but if you have the chance of having 2 bigs who are both agile enough to get out on stretch 4's (and likely alter their shots) and also be absolutely game changing defensively, I'd hope they would be willing to sacrifice a bit on you offensive spacing.

Can you think of a current NBA team that brings that type of interior defense and athleticism to the table? There have been some great PF/C combos (PGasol/Bynum, MGasol/ZBo, Love/Pek, Dirk/T.Chandler, Monroe/Drummond) but is there a combo of elite, athletic rim protectors who can both rebound, close out on shooters and run the floor?

It is nice to have great wing defenders (like they had with Iggy.) But having 2 great wing defenders does nearly effect the opponent the way having 2 great interior defenders does. I realize the NBA is not heading in that direction, but that may be more by necessity than design.

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The Six reply to tk76 on Feb 16 at 15:24
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I think you make some good points with the overall value of rim protectors versus wing defenders. But its rare to find two players who fit that mold and can compliment each other at the 4 and 5. Unlike the Wallaces of before, I don't think its working very well in Detroit today, as both guys are more comfortable at the 5. For that reason I would not be in favor of an Embid/Noel combination because I agree with Brown that Noel does not project as a 4. And I would rather keep Noel in place at the 5. But a Favors-type at the 4 would be real nice paired with Noel at the 5. Can we find that guy?

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tk76 reply to The Six on Feb 16 at 15:40
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I don't see Monroe as an effective rum protector or great defender. He does rebound well and has good size, but I would put the defensive potential of both Embiid and Noel at a much higher level. Monroe lacks the quickness to guard stretch 4s, which would not be an issue for Noel. Monroe is unquestionably much more talented offensively.

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Stan reply to tk76 on Feb 16 at 17:31
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When you have two big men like that you need at least one guy that is also an elite offensive player. Like Duncan and Rasheed Wallace. I hope for the sake of entertainment New Orleans is able to bring in another really good defensive front court player to pair with Anthony Davis.

Do you think that Embiid can be an elite offensive player?

On a collegiate level you could say that Noel/Cauley-Stein from last year fit that category. How well did Kentucky play with those two on the floor?

I think it is fair to say that any team needs at least one of their starting bigs to be a good offensive player- but I do not see why one has to be great or dominant within the offensive scheme. I also don't think it would require the offense to be more based around the low post or to slow its pace. With great athletes like Noel and Embiid, you can run an uptempo offense and even be predicated on 3 pt shooting (generated by your wings.)

If anything, having 2 bigs who can dunk in traffic and generate lots of offensive rebounds allows your main offense to be less efficient. You could even have a high volume chucker in the AI/Rudy Gay mold, since even if they sport a lower than average TS%, the second chance points will lift your offense to average. You also can have wings that are more offensively gifted and know that some of their defensive issues will be masked by the dominant frontcourt defense and rebounding.

If Embiid become a dominant post scorer would be great, but really, all he needs to be is above average offensively. Your team would have great defense and get lots of fast breaks and second chance points, so overall, your half court offense would not even have to be above average.

I suppose it could work. If they're both able to handle stretch fours and protect the rim, that would be a pretty unbelievable pairing on the defensive end. On offense, you'd really have to have three shooters on the floor with them, because teams would completely clog the lane. You'd need so much shooting, I don't really think you could afford having MCW as your PG.

You would need 2 great shooters. I'd be happy to keep MCW because he can use his size to get into the lane. Imagine what it will do to a defense if MCW masters a floater, he has Embiid and Noel to dish it to if anyone helps off his penetration, and you have two shooters on either wing.

Noel is probably faster than 80% of the PF's in the league, and Embiid has the length and quickness to block corner threes. And either of them can attack stretch shooters knowing their mate is staying home to protect the lane. And it really counteracts Noel's size issue and turns it into a positive.

The main issue I see is that you have to use offensive schemes different to the "innovative" ones that Hinkie and Brown want to use. You can still build your offensive of penetration and 3's, but you can't sets based on stretch 3's. You would need to run more of an 80's Lakers kind of offense.

Eh. I just don't think there's going to be any room for driving if you have two bigs who can't step out, and if you're making Embiid your stretch 4/5 that's going to negate his potential on the inside, or at least minimize it. You'd have to build your team around the double teams one or both of those guys are going to draw in the post, and kickouts for threes. Or maybe even run the triangle. Drive and kick doesn't seem like it would work with the lane packed.

I thinks the whole "clogging the lane" thing is a fallacy. Yes, having a big in the lane who cannot finish in traffic clogs the lane. Having bigs who are a danger to catch a lob or put back and O-Board does not clog the lane, but keeps the opposing big honest. And anyway, one of the bigs will be out setting a pick and then rolling. The other big will be on the baseline looking for the dish or OBoard.

You don't need to put your bigs out past the 3 point line to allow penetration. If that was the case then guys like Stockton, Magic and even MJ would never have been able to effectively drive.

Having both your bigs within 10 feet of the lane does prevent your guards from getting completely to the rim, but if your wings know what to do with the ball once they are in the middle of the lane (tear drop, lob, kick to shooter) then it is a big advantage to have your bigs near the rim "clogging the lane."

But no doubt I'm a minority on this view.

Are either of them good passers?

At the current time, no. But I think they both have shown signs of being reasonably good passers. embiid certainly looks to pass, while IIRC Noel seems to make quick decisions with the ball (if not always the best decisions.) Honestly, since what matters is how they would be offensively in 3-4 years, I really don't care if we see ugly offense for the first few seasons.

I think they could win ugly for a few years, and then get better with time. But I'm not sure if franchises have the patience to develop that type of lineup.

I'd be willing to give it a try, but if they get Embiid, I think Noel is probably a trade chip, or vice versa. Just my gut feeling. It'd be fun to watch.

If they get #1, I'd probably look to trade down to #2 or #3 and get a lottery pick in next year's draft for the honor. Come out of the draft with Wiggins or Parker and another lottery pick in 2015. I think that would be worth more than the difference between Noel and Embiid at the 5. Maybe not.

I'd give it a shot of course, there's little downside to it as the Sixers are far from contention anyway, and neither of those 2 (Embiid and Noel) is a lock to be a star, but i don't think it'll work at all.

The "clogging the lane" notion is not a fallacy IMO. It's not all about stretching the floor to the three point line, it's about stretching the floor as much as you can. But if you have 2 bigs who can't shoot at all, their defenders simply won't guard them outside and will just clog the paint entirely. And then, unless it's a terrible team without any good inside defenders or rim protectors, you can forget about teardrops, layups and dunks. They won't happen in the halfcourt. The team will literally live and die by the three. The team will probably be forced to be a jump shooting team on the offensive end. Remember the Thunder from a few years ago?. They couldn't play Ibaka and their center together due to spacing reasons and the team struggled quite a bit despite having 3 all world offensive talents in Durant, Wesbrook and Harden. As soon as Ibaka added a mid range jumper everything opened up for everyone. OKC's improvement in the offensive end is extremely correlated to the improvement of Ibaka's jumper.

As far as the mention of Stockton, Magic, MJ and the like being mentioned, i don't think you can compare different eras at all. The defenses have changed quite a bit over the years. You can thank Thibodeux, the Celtics and the Bulls of the past decade for it probably but teams effectively pack the paint from the strong side and really limit the damage drivers can do for themselves. The best solution to that is open catch and whoot jumpers. Otherwise you'll run into major trouble. And with Embiid and Noel added to MCW (who will never be a great shooter) i don't think you can build a top 10 offense around those limitations.

The only possible positive about a potential Embiid-Noel front court is that i think Noel has a good enough handle, first step and quickness to be a face up threat which could mitigate some of the factors. But without some sort of jump shot, they are practically worthless.

As for Embiid, i don't think you'd want him outside the post, even if he develops a decent 10-15 footer. He has some serious post potential, you don't want to waste that by making him a mid range jump shooter.

The question Hinkie would have to answer is whether the defensive potential of Noel+Embiid plus the offensive benefit of increased second chance points and increase fast break chances off of blocks and forced long shots by the opponent is enough to offset the downside of having 2 bigs without range. In the first couple of seasons I would expect the offense to be dreadful and the defense to be good. But eventually I think the offense could be OK and the defense be the best in the NBA.

But no doubt Hinkie and Brown would just as rather implement the type of offense they prefer, with a stretch 4.

Well, the very similar Houston experiment was a major flop this season. The team wasn't good when both Asik and Howard were on the court. And considering Hinkie's background, that is definitely something to keep an eye on.

If SAS offered Kwahi Leonard for the Pelican's pick would you consider it?

no

He's not a good fit for the Sixers but looking at the players slotted to go in the 6-13 range (Smart, Vonleh, Gordon, Harris, Lavin and etc) Kwahi looks more talented than all of them.

Keep in mind that Leonard would need to be extended in 1 year, as opposed to a rookie contract. And yo do not know who you are getting in the draft. Leonard would work next to Wiggins or Exum but not maybe not as well next to Parker.

How would this lineup do defensively?

MCW
?
Leonard
Noel
Embiid

or

MCW
Wiggins
Leonard
?
Noel

Why would Kawhi not be a good fit?

If the pick were 9+, I'd do it without blinking. If it were 8 or better, I'd have to think, but would be interested. I like Kawhi quite a bit.

What do you think Leonard gets paid after next year?

Leonard is a nice complimentary piece to me, but if you get him (and pay him) before you have the main component(s) in place, you're building a team designed to be stuck in the middle again.

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Stan reply to Brian on Feb 18 at 13:51
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The player taken with the Pelican's pick is supposed to be a complimentary piece to this team. Getting Kwahi Leonard for that pick is great value. Paying him isn't such a terrible thing when you consider that by the time he re-signs the entire roster will mostly consist of rookie contracts. His deal shouldn't handicap the team at all. The only downside would be that this team could sneak into the playoffs in 2015.

Right on, Brian. Need a drive train before worryin' about wheels and rims.

Mutt (#00) and Jeff (#12) should be gone in two shakes of a lamb's tail. Two picks and a $50 Wawa gift card might get Hinkie to step up to the counter. After all, why would a genius boss retain two stiffs who will soon be unbound to the organization and seeking pay raises?

$50 Wawa gift cards should be distributed to the players on the team as a small consolation prize for playing for this club. Better yet, distribute them to all of us who bought league pass to watch the Sixers. There are no Wawas in my neck of the woods but I could send one to a family member.

Special dispensation for remaining loyal at 1200 miles: choice of Carl Jr.'s or Hardee's gift card or an Earl Battey baseball card (sheathed in top-grade plastic) or an engine block "coat."

I would guess a deal very similar to Thad's.

That is what I figured. Given Thad is only 25, I'd prefer to extend Thad. But it sounds like he will chose to sign elsewhere if they refuse to trade him.

http://deadspin.com/76ers-sign-high-school-student-with-down-syndrome-to-tw-1524761224

That's awesome. A low-cost PR move, but another reason to like the current regime.

no Varejao for CLE tomorrow

I guess it won't matter if they continue to play so poorly... but the Sixers have by far the easiest schedule down the stretch. I think more than 2/3rds of their games are against lottery teams.

At this point in the season, with the trade deadline less than 3 days away, I would not be surprised at all if Turner, Thad, and Hawes are still on the team come Friday.

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tk76 reply to Chris on Feb 17 at 22:28
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That would be extremely disappointing. I'm hoping for an interesting trade, where they bring back a player who will fit in the backcourt with MCW. I'd be surprised if they get any picks projected to be in the top 20, but a 2015 pick would not be bad.

I really don't get this pessimism about a trade occurring. It seems to me that a trade wouldn't have been completed anyway before Thursday as the Sixers are essentially holding an auction for their players, so it makes sense to wait until the last minute even if there is a satisfying deal already in place.

I'd be shocked if at least Turner and Hawes are still on the team come Friday...

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 9:38
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Every year teams try and fail to move players. Not just because they won't take what's offered but because no one wants their players. And while a Turner rental may have some miniscule value, I can't imagine why anyone would give us a decent prospect or a first-rounder in any draft to rent Turner. Hawes at least is someone who several playoff teams could use - Spurs, Clippers, maybe Blazers with the Joel Freeland injury.

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Tray reply to Tray on Feb 18 at 9:46
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Then again, Woj tweeted this morning that Charlotte had a deal that collapsed for Caron Butler and Gary Neal, so maybe there's a market for everybody.. in the Bobcats front office/Jordan's mind, at least.

My point was not about players being tradeable - i don't disagree that there are players that teams simply don't want or at least don't want to give an asset for.

My point was about the pessimism amongst a lot of people that a trade will happen because it hasn't happened yet. I think the players would've been held until the deadline regardless of the offers Hinkie has received so far. The only exception is if someone sent an offer that simply has to be accepted as soon as possible because it might go away.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 14:02
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You really think we'd hold regardless of the offers we get? How many offers in the nba do you think remain open for weeks or months? I would think almost none, because the value of the assets you offer is in flux, team needs are in flux, a team that's looking to add a piece might add someone else by the time you get back to them. I think that if we had ever gotten an offer we liked for Turner, we would have taken it because there's no guarantee that it would still be on the table at the deadline and no guarantee that anyone else would make a good offer. With Thad, the deadline auction approach makes more sense. With Hawes, I think it would be pretty risky to pass up a good pre-deadline offer because there are only a few good teams in need of an extra big.

I think it happens a lot. A lot of trades that actually happen originate from talks that happened much earlier and are revisited before the deadline.

Also i don't necessarily agree that teams make trades where they give up assets for short term in-season needs. They make trades with their eyes towards the playoffs.

FWIW, I also think most teams don't talk trades seriously until late January.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 14:43
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But what your playoff needs are changes depending on how your existing roster's doing, or on other deals you make. For example, Houston used to want Thad or at least make sense as a destination for Thad, until Terrence Jones more or less turned into Thad. On the other hand, a need may not manifest itself until midway through the season. And even if a team's needs don't change for internal reasons, if someone makes an offer to you for Turner in January, odds are good that they'll be in trade talks for a player they like better by February. If your understanding of how the trade market worked was correct (teams don't talk trade until late January, offers they make before the deadline generally remain open), we wouldn't see so many pre-deadline deals. Deng and Gay are very possibly the biggest names that will move this year. Why didn't Chicago and Toronto wait until late January, when "most teams" supposedly start talking about trades and the market for their players would therefore be better, or just wait things out because the offers they had would always remain open and who knows, someone else might outbid the teams they got offers from? Because none of that is true. If Toronto hadn't snatched up Sacramento's offer, Sacramento would have gone after someone else, or might have changed their mind and decided to tank the season, or might have soured on Gay. With all the contingencies, there's probably a 25% chance that deal still would have been there for them today. Hinkie may have an open offer for Turner or Hawes that he doesn't like much, but I can't believe that he was ever offered anything good and turned it down to conduct a deadline "auction" for Turner or Hawes's services, with the hope that the auction would go well, but that if the auction didn't go well that good offer would still be there. That would just be really dumb. Especially with all the losses those guys have cost us.

1. What do you define as "good offer"? Like i said in my previous post if he was offered something that he can't afford to refuse he would've accepted it. But that's very unlikely for the type of players Turner, Hawes or even Thad are. If he was offered an "acceptable" trade though i do think he probably held them for an "auction".

2. You are looking at outliers not the rule. Historically a vast majority of the trades have been completed shortly before the deadline (last week or so). This season has seen an unusual amount of earlier trades but that doesn't change the rule.

3. The Chicago and Toronto cases don't fit the narrative at all. Chicago wanted to unload salary and get under the tax first and foremost and Bynum's contract was a unique chance to do that. They actually made the trade at the deadline, they just had a different deadline. Toronto meanwhile, wanted to tank and desperately tried to unload it's players as soon as possible because they were too good for a bottom 3-4 record. The Sixers never had the same need. Just because the Raptors got much better as a result of the trade doesn't mean that was planned or expected. It was an unexpected side effect. The buyers (Cleveland and Sacramento) meanwhile did it to acquire core pieces for their team with the playoffs as the ultimate goal in mind. They would've done the same thing at the deadline if possible (The Cavs would be able to because of Bynum).

What rule? These guys are hedge fund heads. Deference to the jeweled top and pinching for gold, is all. Sixers fans are gettin' suckered again. Some, that is.

You would hope that a team that wants to add an asset for a playoff run would want to add that asset as early as possible. Likewise, the Sixers should be afraid of an injury that would kill any trade value of the player.

You hold off making a trade when you think you can force a better offer- but there are risks involved. In the case of Hawes and Turner, I doubt the increased return will be worth the risk. But at least they still have a terrible record.

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buke reply to tk76 on Feb 18 at 16:16
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I'm almost amazed a trade wasn't finalized over the all star break. If they still intend on trading some combination of the three vets, what could they be holding out for that is worth keeping them around for one meaningless game against Cleveland?

I thought the Utah game was the last time either Hawes or Turner or both would be in a Sixers uniform. Now maybe tonight will be, but maybe not. Obviously Hinkie isn't overly concerned about the fans or the players.

I wouldn't be so sure they'll play tonight...

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buke reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 18:08
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Wow, I might tune in just to see that lineup.

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spencer has to leave on Feb 18 at 8:48
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After watching Okl.St. and Missouri this weekend 2 shooting guards are looking pretty good compared to Gary Harris, who has trouble making his jumper most games this year. When Smart got suspended I was curious how Markel Browns' game would be affected and he did well with the added pressure.

And Jabari Brown looks like a flat out scorer for Missouri and both have decent size and athletism for the s.g. spot.

I bring this up because if the Sixers get a late first at the trade deadline I would much rather keep it and the early 2nd rounder we have [#2 currently] than use them to move up a slot or 2 with the Pelicans pick.

Ridiculous story about Hollinger: relations between Lionel Hollins and the front office in Memphis were damaged when Hollinger randomly jumped out of the sideline to challenge a shooter in a practice drill. Hollins became "livid," Hollins said yesterday in a Memphis local tv interview. Why would the stat guy jump onto the court to guard people?

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/24747767/lionel-hollins-after-the-grind

If Hollins is that paranoid, he deserved what he got...

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 10:44
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I don't see paranoia here, I see a coach controlling his practices.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24447420/sources-rockets-exploring-asik-trades-again

"The Rockets have renewed efforts to trade disgruntled center Omer Asik, with the Philadelphia 76ers emerging once again as a potential landing spot, league sources told CBSSports.com on Tuesday."

....

Can someone explain why the Sixers would have any interest in Asik? He is due 15M next year and then is a FA (although counts only 8M against the cap.) What is the point of giving up assets to acquire Asik?

i dont think they do and its more Houston trying to get other teams to contact them

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Matt68 reply to tk76 on Feb 18 at 16:22
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Some ideas:

-great defensive center who is possibly being undervalued
-neither the cap space or the dollars next year will matter
-if it only costs us Hawes/Turner for example (maybe ET goes to a third team), then he's almost free

Depends on the assets. I seriously doubt the Sixers would give up a pick for him. But for cap space or Turner? I'd do it...

Even if only 8M counts against the cap, why would they take on a 15M contract next year who is on the last year of his contract? I don't see why any team would want to pay him that.

I'm not going that far. He's a better asset than Turner isn't it? And if there isn't a better option for the cap space he's a better asset than nothing.

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Tray reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 17:19
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Well I think the problem is that Asik is four times the player Turner is, so if we actually played him we'd go back to being third or fourth in the lottery. He won't be much of an "asset" post-deadline either; teams don't get much in sign-and-trades.

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Tray reply to Tray on Feb 18 at 17:36
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Like it's not even obvious, is it, that Asik is worth more in a sign-and-trade than Turner is as a rental.

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buke reply to Tray on Feb 18 at 18:03
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I doubt it. If Turner and Hawes are traded for a defensive minded center and a throw in, this team won't score enough to win many games the rest of the year. You're talking about two guys that average 30 pts/game between them. Unless you think the team can hold teams consistently in the eighties, I don't see how that trade would make this team more likely to win for the rest of the year. Next year might be a different story.

I also think Asik is a bit overrated on defense. He is a great rebounder (like Vucevic) and a quality post defender. But I don't think he protects the lane/rim all that well.

Here's a bold prediction from me:

I'll set the number of Sixers veterans being traded at 2.5. I wanted to say 3, but there's a small chance Thad stays until the draft.

Hawes - 100%
Turner - 99%
Thad - 75%
cap space used in a trade - 100%

What is your best guess on total return?

ASSETS!!!

I think the return won't be obvious. Picks and young players are the easy choice, but i think they might find a way to get a potential serious keeper. Leonard for example, was an interesting scenario. Anyway, odds are the acquisition will be another pick in the 10-16 range.

I also don't think adding capable players will endanger the tank. Scratching Hawes, Turner and Thad from the roster will do plenty of damage to an already terrible team. New players needing to get integrated in the system won't immediately make a huge difference and they'd need to carry the team not just fit in.

I'm thinking more along the lines of lower case assets :) Like some future considerations, marginal future role players and may a late first. Hopefully my expectations are exceeded.

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buke reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 18:14
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Speaking of that possible new first round pick, I think someone worthwhile could be found with a pick in the lower twenties. One name that is starting to appear in that location on draft boards is Nebraska's Terran Petteway who might be the best pure scorer in the Big Ten conference this year. I don't know if he'll come out this year but he would be well worth giving a shot with that kind of pick if he does.

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MojoSoDope reply to Xsago on Feb 18 at 23:14
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Why?

You were trying to sell the bill of goods and pump things up that a trade was imminent just hours after December 15th arrived. You were so confident and sure of Hinkie's magic wand then.. and how could you still be now? Is it just wishful thinking?.... or blind faith maybe...?

no Hollis Thompson tonight

******CAVS GAME******

thad 3

ill live with the zeller jumper

et misses a long 2

mcw nice job on irving but zeller and 1(made the ft)

bad pass from hawes

zeller jumper

et to the line

split them

the tyler zeller game

sissy jumper

bad shot mcw

thad o-board

thad missed shot

I'd like to see a replay of that Thad travel. Don't think he moved early.

Which Zeller is a bigger scrub?

lavoy blows a good look from mcw

scores anyway off his miss

Why did they fucking switch that lazy screen by Waiters? That's just lazy defense, gives Kyrie a free two+one.

mcw bucket

mcw bucket again

These fucking scrubs are unwatchable. The only reason they get a stop is if the other team misses an easy shot.

wroten steal and finish

down 6 end of the 1st

Down 6 after one. Which group of scrubs wants it less?

They traded a #1 for Moultrie.

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Stan reply to Brian on Feb 18 at 20:26
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Hopefully they don't make the playoffs next year. Giving up a pick in the 15-17 range to Boston will be tough to stomach.

Even if they don't get a future 1st, it's still a great trade for Miami. Miami would have ended up getting three 2nd round picks(1 of which would be in the 30-44 range) for the #27 overall pick.

Such a terrible trade for the Sixers. Miami wouldn't want to pay the $1 million salary plus the luxury tax to keep him. They would have shipped him off for a Tony Wroten type deal.

They drafted Turner #2 overall.

williams 3

et 3

The gave Lavoy Allen $3M/year because they were too stupid to sign him for non-guaranteed years as a second-round pick, like they do with basically every second round pick.

wroten to the line

missed both

thad and 1

keep getting those shots up evan

I wonder if Turner can fall below .500 TS% before he's gone. If he doesn't get traded, it's a certainty.

lavoy is so bad

mcw to the line

made both

Alright, I'm out.

Wanted to catch a little bit of the game tonight, if it's Thad's last wanted to say "Good bye," if it's Turner's last wanted to say "Good riddance."

Later.

bad shot mcw

williams to the line

made both

nice dunk by waiters who got hurt doing it

lavoy putback

down 21 at the half

Waiters out for the rest of the game

anderson 3

mcw goes for the steal

irving 3

et tip in

thad bucket

et floater thingy

wroten and 1

missed the ft

down 23 end of the 3rd

lavoy jumper

Sheesh, this really turned ugly.

malik went in on moultrie earlier and it was glorious

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eddies' heady's reply to sixerfan1220 on Feb 18 at 22:55
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Care to go into more detail?

Brett Brown sure had some overdue, pointed comments in his postgame.

basically called out his effort

lost by 29

vs Dallas on friday

Hopefully with a very different roster.

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buke reply to tk76 on Feb 18 at 21:45
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Perhaps, but my guess is that the result will be the same. Think I'll be watching college basketball almost exclusively for the next month plus. Maybe I'll check into whatever NBA teams pick up Hawes and Turner on occasion. This won't get significantly better for quite some time.

definitely not this year. But at least next year they will add 3 lottery picks who could develop into a successful nucleus. As opposed to this year, where we knew going in that 3 of their central players are likely gone soon.

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buke reply to tk76 on Feb 18 at 23:07
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At this point, I don't think they get another lottery pick. Maybe they will get lucky and get another good player from the lower first round of the draft, though. Still, those players will be taking their lumps for awhile. I would be surprised if they can land a free agent of consequence. This could turn into the nineties all over again.

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Stan! reply to buke on Feb 18 at 23:08
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I think he's talking about Noel since he probably won't play this year.

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buke reply to Stan! on Feb 18 at 23:30
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Ah, my bad. They should definitely play Noel for a bit this year if they can. That's about the only thing that could add any interest to this wasted season.

WE KEPT THE DEFICIT TO UNDER 30! Huzzah!

Bucks over Orlando.

After that game, I'm officially a depressed fan ...

"Sixers general manager Sam Hinkie has reportedly discussed the possibility of dealing Hawes and fellow veterans Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young with every team in the NBA as the trade deadline looms at 3 p.m. Thursday, though a source close to the situation has said there's a "good chance" nothing happens. Perhaps that's because the Sixers, who have more available space under the salary cap than any team in the league, are asking for a first-round draft pick as compensation for any of those three, and because Turner and Hawes are in the final season of their contracts."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/sixers/2014/02/18/sixers-looking-to-deal-vets-for-high-draft-picks/5595037/

A good chance nothing happens for genius arbitrageur Hinkie. Maybe that's because our players aren't worth what he's asking. What kind of fantasy world does he live in, where suddenly at the deadline playoff teams are going to get really desperate for that Turner/Hawes-sized piece to put them over the top? The market for these guys is what the market for these guys is. Take a second-rounder, a flyer on Cody Zeller, Bismack, Jeffrey Taylor, Shabbaz Muhammad, Dieng, the draft rights to Livio Jean-Charles, anything.

At this point if they don't get something of definitive value in return, I'd just hold on to them. If they trade them, there's a chance the terrible chemistry and quitting attitude will be disrupted, and we can't afford that.

Effort can steal some games.

Yeah, trading Thad would probably put an end that pesky effort thing. The other two guys could care less. Though if they realize they're playing for the next contract...ugh.

would it really be the worst thing in the world if nothing happens? this roster is terrible enough as is to secure a bottom 3 record. then you just let Turner & Hawes walk this offseason and have a ton of cap space. if they can't get a 1st rd pick i don't even care if they trade them.

It's not about the record. It's about getting some kind of asset for 2 guys who will be let go in the summer and the cap space kept available since the summer.

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Mike reply to Xsago on Feb 19 at 9:20
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i look at it as addition by subtraction. just letting 2 bad players leave is enough of an asset for me. there's a reason we can't get anything for them.

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Matt68 reply to Mike on Feb 19 at 9:22
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They'd be leaving under either scenario. That's not a relevant factor.

It's relevant if trading them means bringing in player(s) on longer contract(s).

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Matt68 reply to Brian on Feb 19 at 11:01
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True. Though I don't think adding a year would matter. Beyond that, maybe.

revised slogan: "Together We Blow"

"Quit with us."

"A complete lack of Passion, Intensity and Pride."

Fitting!

'In the can' headlines: Desperately Seeking A Pair, Coach Stalks GM For Talent, Closet Genius Getting Undressed, Ping Pong Contenders Breed 10th Straight Fender Bender

Oh gosh what a surprise, Charlotte is holding firm to its offer of a second-rounder and expiring contract for Turner and refuses to give us the Blazers' first-round pick, and no other team is even talking to us about him. And that's from some Sixers Liberty Ballers source. In reality it's probably worse.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/2/19/5426082/sixers-evan-turner-trade-bobcats

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Matt68 reply to Tray on Feb 19 at 12:45
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There's a lot of posturing now. Tomorrow is when we'll have at least a little real information to talk about.

That said, an expiring and 2nd rounder is good enough return for me.

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Stan reply to Matt68 on Feb 19 at 13:30
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I'd rather just hold on to Turner and see what he's worth as a RFA. If Charlotte were to include Bismack Biyombo and/or Jeff Taylor with the 2nd round draft pick, I would do it.

I would prefer they just cut him. If they are not planning on extending the 8M QO to him, why not just let him walk 3 months early for the health of the team. No reason to be playing a guy 35 min a game who does not want to be there and the team does not want to keep him.

As a fan, I just don't want to watch ET or Hawes for the last 1/3 of the season. I'm past thinking they can get anything for them.

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buke reply to tk76 on Feb 19 at 15:42
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Can't argue with you. I don't want to watch players who are sick of being here and I can't blame them for being sick of playing for the Sixers. Nevertheless, the Sixers do have to field a team for the remainder of the season and, if nothing else, the front office should try to get some players who are being underutilized now and try them out for the rest of the year.

I don't plan to watch a whole lot from here on out, so I'd prefer if they keep the loafers and the complainers on the floor. Should mean more losses. Unless they suddenly realize they're playing for a contract.

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buke reply to Tray on Feb 19 at 12:55
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If Hinkle doesn't manage a trade, he will look like a fool and if he gets nothing but scraps he will still look like a fool. Maybe that will be the silver lining to this cloud: the realization for Hinkle and the fans that his honeymoon is over.

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Tray reply to buke on Feb 19 at 18:13
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He won't look like a fool to me if he only gets a second-rounder, as that's all that Turner is worth. He's not a used car salesman or a hypnotist or something, he can only get fair value, or at best some stupid gm's idea of what fair value is, and apparently no gm is stupid enough to think Turner's worth much.

There was a point maybe 7 or 8 weeks ago where Turner's value might have been higher.

if he was offered a 1st for turner at any point during the season im pretty sure turner would be gone by now

Maybe. You never know. Or I guess we'll never know. I think it's safe to say tomorrow will not be the high point of Evan Turner's value. Wouldn't you agree?

Feel like Morey screwed up royally in his handling of Asik, as well.

agreed

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 19 at 21:04
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I think Turner has been around too long for his value to have fluctuated much this season; teams get who he is by now. The only first-round-pick to which his name has ever been connected all season is Charlotte's Blazers pick, which is kind of like a high second-round pick that's much more expensive. And apparently they were never serious about giving it to us. On the other hand, when Turner was playing well we heard Waiters rumors. Waiters is a lot worse than Turner as far as production in the here and now, and around the time of the rumors he'd gotten into some kind of locker-room fight with the team's star and the coaching staff had decided he and the team's star couldn't play together. I do think that Hinkie is bright enough to take a first-round pick if it was offered, and to realize that any temporary spike in Turner's value would only be temporary.

well xsago says that offers remain open in the NBA and Hinkie may be sitting on some old offer, so the fact that we haven't moved him yet shows nothing. But yeah, that's probably wrong, so I agree. I also don't really think that Turner had any value 8 weeks ago.

About the Charlotte deal specifically, I assume that Jordan's goal is to avoid Miami and Indiana in the first round and pull a first-round upset of the third or fourth seed, which he thinks Charlotte could pull off with some help. I think he's right that Charlotte might pull the upset if only it could get into 6th place. And I guess winning a first-round series is a legitimate enough goal for a young team. That said, they have to realize that adding Turner to their existing team would, at best, give them a long shot of passing Brooklyn and Washington, both of which have quite a bit more talent, and an even longer shot of upsetting Toronto if they managed to get into 6th place. And as far as the real chance that they'll miss the playoffs altogether, I don't think Turner shores them up there a whole lot either. If Detroit significantly improves under a new coach, Charlotte's going to be out of luck with or without Turner. So giving us the Blazers' pick and throwing away a shot at the next Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Bogdanovic, Pondexter, or Vasquez, to name just a few good players taken late in the first round in recent years, for this tiny marginal increase in their chances of a first-round upset, or of making the playoffs, just seems incredibly stupid. If they could get him for an expiring and a late-second-rounder, they might as well risk it. Adding Neal for a similar price makes as much or better sense, given that Neal can actually shoot. And I suppose if a first-round-upset is a big deal to them, giving up a first-round pick for Afflalo might make sense. But giving Turner Gerald Henderson's minutes is somewhere between a small step backward, a purely lateral move, and a tiny step forward. Turner's a modestly better offensive player who plays way worse defense; it probably wouldn't help at all.

Steve Blake to golden state for Kent Bazemore and MarShon Brooks

Now, I would have taken Bazemore for Turner. Maybe even Brooks.

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Berdj Joseph Rassam on Feb 19 at 21:44
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It's pathetic to see what has happened to the 76ers since the Bynum trade.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 19 at 22:00
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I've really liked Doug McDermott for a couple of years now. Never could come to a firm conclusion or opinion of if/how he would translate to the next level. I find myself leaning more and more to him having decent success on the next level. But every time I try to wholly convince myself of that I think back to how much I liked Luke Harangody and how I thought that he would translate and have a respectable career which hasn't come to fruition.

I try not to let player comparisons cloud my thoughts or outlooks because it really isn't a fair practice. But McDermott seems to be different to the point I think he will find his place. Anyone else have a view on him or watched him closely the last two years?

He will find his place but it might just be an Austin Croshere place. I don't think the non-jump-shooting part of his game will translate very well, but perhaps it will just enough to keep defenses honest.

The Nets got Thornton. BK attracts bad contracts like flies. $105M tax bill for BKY.

5 hours, 19 minutes. Sixers have fallen out of the conversation on the major sites, as far as I can tell.

@WojYahooNBA Philadelphia has traded Spencer Hawes to Cleveland, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

@WojYahooNBA Philadelphia will receive two second round picks from Cavs for Hawes, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

they have orlando's 2nd rounder which would be a nice get

Yippee!

At least Hawes won't be playing for a contract in Philly.

i think the sixers have to take a player back since CLE is over the cap but we will see

I hope it's not Jarrett Jack

wonder if they can steal karasev out of all this

woj says the 2nd rounders will be in 2014(CLE has their own, the Magic's and the grizzlies')

if gee and/or clark are salary fillers they both have team options for next year so they are basically expirings

earl clark and i think henry sims are the contracts the sixers will take back

Wait, Hawes to the Cavs link

Any way you can start a new Trade Deadline thread?

Thanks

One wonders whether a deal of this quality was there for us weeks or months ago.

Subversive toilet paper was the end of him. Hinkie did Hawes no favor... "The [2012] vote, incredibly, was unanimous in Obama's favor in nine Cleveland precincts." Press conference from Mayor Turner at noon.

Not Philadelphia's kind of player. Double Zero will notch you some double-doubles but, ultimately, he's a Double Bubble in the paint.

Probably not in the precincts where Hawes will live. Does not surprise that Dan Gilbert would be receptive to Hawes, though.

Short term rental in Chagrin Falls, half hour from downtown, would be both practical and poetic.

Hinkie just picked up two more 2nd round picks and Eric Maynor in a deal that sends Andre Miller to WAS. Don't know any further details.


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