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Two More Years...Two More Years...

Considering who was left on the board at 10, I don't have a problem with Saric. And extra credit for swinging that 2017 1st rounder back by taking Payton and flipping him, instead of just taking Saric outright at 10. I bet Xsago is pretty psyched we got his guy. Grade: B. (Although that drops a letter grade for every year he isn't bought out from his Adriatic contract and brought over to Philly).

As for Embiid and the alleged medical reports that he fully checks out, I have my doubts. If that was really the case, wouldn't he have gone at 1 or 2 like predicted before this injury? I think there truly are some serious red flags with Embiid's bone density scans but Hinkie and co. realized that Exum ain't anything special and are now holding their breath that Embiid works out; since he was their last remaining hope of materializing those superstar expectations that came with tossing this past season. That would also explain the last minute desperation to trade the whole draft to the Cavs for that top pick. Cleveland wisely avoided that dreaded Embiid/Exum conundrum and declined so Philly wasn't left with much choice. Anyway, here's to Embiid and his bone density. Grade: We'll C

They didn't get "their" first rounder back if it's protected (1 - 11). They gave up an unprotected pick, didn't they? When does the protection get put on - the first trade and it goes with the pick? Can it be changed?

Yeah I think the Sixers gave up the pick with no protections (I could be wrong). But now they get it back if it falls outside the top 11. If not, they get it back the following year if it's outside the top 8. Good question though, I didn't think about whether or not it's their original pick they'll be getting back or Orlando's own pick.

In any case, it's still a plus as opposed to just being uncreative and taking Saric at 10. I'm sure there are some lazy GMs who would have just done that and didn't bother with this whole maneuver at all right?

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

These are the protections hat were on the Sixers pick in the Bynum trade. The Sixers get there pick back regardless of outcome.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

These are the protections hat were on the Sixers pick in the Bynum trade. The Sixers get there pick back regardless of outcome.

Ok thanks. Well yeah so kudos to Hinkie for getting a $1.05 out of $1.00 I guess. He seems to be pretty adroit at these little things at least.

Getting a 1st rounder for sliding back two slots is a pretty major deal. Especially since it allows them the flexibility to trade away a future first down the road if they ever aare part of a major trade for an established star. Prior to getting that pick back they were not allowed to trade away a first until something like 2019 because of the rule against trading away consecutive firsts.

Yeah I get it, I gave him credit for all that. Just a bit disappointed in general that he couldn't come away with one of the top 2 guys after it was all said and done. And the Saric pick was just okay. Less than okay if he takes his time coming over. Neither pick will start paying dividends for at least a couple years, which is okay I suppose considering the big picture. Just that there's a pretty significant chance that neither one pays off at all, that's why this whole process is seeming a bit uninspiring right at this moment.

Being he already selected KJ, sure wish he would have picked Markel Brown to play SG instead of picking kind of a redundant guy in Jerami Grant.

I like Russ Smith. If we couldn't get a small guy in Napier, he's not a bad fall-back. Hell of a competitor.

@WojYahooNBA Sixers will trade Russ Smith to New Orleans for rights to Pierre Jackson, sources say.

Averaged 29 and 6 in the D-League last year.

im fine with jackson

i just didnt want smith

Not hugely dissimilar players, are they?

i trust jackson to be able reign himself in more than smith

We drafted Pierre last year and traded him with Jrue for Noel, right?

Micic! Strong.

cant wait to see what UDFA they get

Anybody decent left over? I quit watching after Lavine.

not really but i trust them to find something

@WojYahooNBA Philadelphia has picks No. 58 and 60 now.

jordan mcrae with the 58th pick

We acquired 58 and 60! Getting our shooting guard at 58, Jordan McRae.

We give up 54, Dangubic. I didn't like him.

@WojYahooNBA Brooklyn has acquired the 59th and 60th picks, so Xavier Thames and Corey Jefferson will belong to them, source tells Yahoo.

So we won't have Jefferson but we will have McRae. McRae's better than a lot of those D-League guards we ran out last year.

im going to sleep, ill sort all this out in the morning

As it turns out, Philadelphia never made a run at Cleveland’s No. 1 overall pick, league sources tell Yahoo.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) June 27, 2014

So Cleveland just made it all up to get Orlando to up its bids?

I thought Cleveland was bluffing. Trying to get the Sixers to trade up to get Embiid so they could get Wiggins at 3.

CBS Sports "experts" give Sixers a B for Embiid pick and Orlando an A- for Gordon. Too funny.

Jeff Goodman is saying we had the worst draft on sportscenter because we won't be good next year. He thinks the Bulls had the best draft because they got McDermott. Dumbest person ever.

George Allen used to say "The future is now." Hinkie's slogan could be "The future....will always be in the future." Apparently you agree with him.

The Bulls are taking steps to be competitive again next year. Next summer they likely will be making the same kind of moves. If the Sixers are anywhere near as good as the Bulls in two years, I will be very surprised. The Bulls will take a rebuilding year or two but have limited patience for that sort of thing. They don't want a repeat of 1999-2004.

Yeah, you're right - McBuckets puts them in the Finals next year.

Well, he'll help them get a lot closer than we'll get for at least the next three or four years.

Obviously we'll still be really bad this season, but this team is going to be pretty fun to watch. Between MCW, Noel, McDaniels, Grant, Jackson, maybe Thad, and Wroten, we have seven exceptional NBA athletes. It's not going to be like last year pre-deadline with Hawes and Turner, or like last year post-deadline with a bunch of Casper Wares. We're going to be an extremely young team that's amazing in transition and stands to be pretty decent on defense. It's going to be more fun to watch that team win 28 games than to watch Randle/Vonleh and McDermott or Stauskas gun our way to a 32-win season.

They won't win 28 games unless there are some significant contributors signed in the offseason. They might not win 19. The ESPN commentators were talking about the Sixers like they were a joke and they are right.

"Amazing in transition" means nothing. Almost any NBA player can be good in transition. The really good teams are those that can execute in the half court.

Obviously they haven't finished adding players yet (free agency), but they'll be pretty hard-pressed to even come close to 28 wins. And with the white flag waived again tonight as far as next season is concerned, I don't see them attempting to add any free agents of even little significance so as not to move the needle even the slightest. They'll probably win less than last year's total.

I think they'll be just as bad and porous on defense as they were last year. Giving up 3's at a high clip and getting slaughtered on the glass on both ends. As for transition points, they will be hit and miss as they won't be able to generate any stops or secure the stop by way of rebounding.

And lest we speak nothing of the offense. U.g.l.y. Ugly.

We differ I know, but I see nothing close to fun watching garbage like that. It stinks to high heaven as far as the game is concerned. Having all these athletes with very limited skills does nothing for me.

Exactly. Embrace the perma tank strategy people. I bet KJ averages 11/6/1.4 blocks in his starting role next year. Consequently the 76ers can miss out on the top tier of draft prospects by a hair again due to maximizing the value of Thad and Hollis Thompson until the last 30 minutes before the trade deadline. At which point we score tons of 2nd rounders and do this again. It's only year 2 of the 30 year rebuilding process. Rome wasn't...fhhfddyhgdtgggfsgjjfHinkieGoigdddyjhg.

Except we got the best prospect in the draft. Two years in a row. Not sure where this "missing out" is coming from.

At least somebody has the guts to call out Harris and Blitzer for the hucksters and asset strippers that they are instead of the BS mantra they have been shoveling to the public the past year about 'winning a championship over the long-term.'

Yeah that is what building the training facility in Camden and getting $85M from the suckers/enablers in NJ state gov't was really about.

Oh man, what a wild draft.

Here's my thoughts:

Embiid pick - don't like it, the risk is too big, but it can work out. Embiid IS a terrific talent if he doesn't have chronic issues. Hopefully the Sixers made a proper medical evaluation.

Saric trade/pick - Awesome stuff by Hinkie. With one move he recovered the lost valuable 2017 first rounder from the Magic, got a 2015 second rounder AND got the best player available at #10. It sucks that we'll have to wait for him for a while, but BPA is more important than playing next year.

MCDaniels pick - great value at 32. Has the potential to be a long term starter.

Grant pick - not a fan of Grant but at 39 i guess he's good value. Lets hope his shot is redeemable.

Jackson pick/trade - fine with it. Jackson won't be anything special but he does have the chance to be a decent PG in the NBA. He's probably better than Russ Smith.

Micic pick - Great value at 52. I had him as a first round talent. Who knows when he'll come over, but he can play. Long term backup PG maybe? Could be an asset further down the road.

Mcrea - don't like him. I would've preferred Dangubic who they traded.

All in all, it's a little painful that we won't see any of this for a while and the pain will continue next season, but i'm satisfied because Hinkie stood by the process of maximizing assets. It will work out eventually - the only question is when.

I can pretty much guarantee that Embid's problem won't be anything chronic. He'll get the proper rest he needs and foot problems aren't serious most of the times; we're not talking about instability or ligamental problems so he'll be just fine. All he needs is a good rehab and he's good to go. That ACL injury from Nerlens would worry me more.

You really just love anyone from the Balkans. I think pretty highly of Hinkie as a talent evaluator but I would have much preferred preferred 16 and 19 to a guy who projects somewhere between a better Diaw and a poor-shooting Turkoglu.

You really just love anyone from the Balkans

Not necessarily. I wasn't too high on Nurkic for example. And the other Balkan guys in this year's draft like Bogdanovic, Dangubic and Jokic i value pretty much the same way NBA teams do apparently as i would've drafted them at more or less the same spots.

It's Saric and Micic that i like from the Balkans this year. And the Sixers got both!!!

And no i don't think 16 and 19 was a better deal. Sure Denver made a great deal overall, but the Saric one was still a better haul.

I don't get the handwringing of the "we're still gonna stink next year" crowd. Of course we are! We were always gonna stink next year, regardless of who was drafted last night.

The team won't be significantly improved until these young guys start maturing AND some of them can be turned into established NBA studs. To me, that is Hinkie's plan. Collect good young players and lots of cap space, bide his time, and make a splash in free agency or a big trade.

Reading this might help with the hand wringing understanding.

I understand it myself, I find it hyperbolic nonsense, but I understand it. Don't agree with it even a little though. All the negative reactions to last night draft to me are short term thinkers more worried about incremental improvement than building a championship contender

I agree with u 100% this is about long term not the short term. I watched about 5 games last yr cause I knew it was going to be to much to bare but also I was fine with this. I also can see how some people would be upset the ones who are still watching every sixer game & was hoping for some improvement to watch this team contend for the worst record 2 yrs in a row is a lot to ask for but in the end the long term goal is way more important than fighting for an 8th seed

I'm willing to bet some of the same people bemoaning last night were happy last year when Sam Hinkie did the same thing pretty much he did last night

Embiid pick - no brainer.

McDermott pass - sponge brainer. Dr. Naismith said to aim at the peach basket. A plum of an offensive player refused for a tall Euro taking a 2 yr. front end sabbatical (will see 76ers in 2016; maybe).

Finagling a #1 pick out of Magic (what could they have been thinking in giving that up?) - exceptional work.

MCW eyes were darting, looked nauseous in interview after PG Payton was picked. "I'm a basketball player; I can play with anybody." Priceless.

Revised motto: "Together We Build Pipe Dreams"

I thought they got 5 first round talents and am very pleased. Micic is a pure p.g., not a scorer like most currently playing. Grant could replace a lot of what Thad gives us and McDaniel has Kw.Leonard like potential.

And we got these 3 at cheap 2nd round prices, which is very important moving forward. It will allow the bulk of our cap to go to whatever big star they will eventually target.

Shooting adds wins so that will be the last ingredient added, I guess. The pieces are starting to fit sorta. A rotation of Noel, Embiid and Saric at the 4/5 spot and 2 potential lock down defenders at the 3 and our p.g. is here. One position to be filled.

K.Thompson anyone?

Passing on McPeachbaskets and getting the #1 pick back are 2 parts of the same decision. Do you like the move or not?

Or you could look at it this way (credit to Mr Bodner)

Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, and our 2017 1st round pick back. That's pretty incredible.

Or you could have Nerlens Noel, the guy who can't defend a paperbag in the NBA and no trade flexibility in the first round until 2019.

I take option 1

Well, I would have strongly preferred what Denver did to what we did. They drafted McDermott and traded him for two first rounders that nabbed Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris. We traded our pick to get a guy who won't play for at least a year or two and a draft pick after the 2017 season. My best form of karma would be for Hinkie to be gone before he has a chance to make that pick.

Except the second part hinged on the first, and on both of which, the primary and the subsequent act, eschewing for the record Mr. Backspin of Omaha and collecting a vagrant #1 pick, I was clear regarding my perspective - - see "sponge brainer" and "exceptional"... now what has you confused?

Accordingly, I've instructed Sam to write "I will not pass on my next opportunity to select a true basketball shooter for the fans of Philadelphia" 500 times, double-spaced, in cursive, due Monday. You too may sign the petition.

link to the hinkie press conference which will start soon

http://www.nba.com/sixers/live

Hinkie: No Saric for at least two years, could be more than two. No out clause after only one year.

Well that almost seals it, then. Terrible pick.

Again, he could have picked McDermott and traded him for two first round picks this year.

That really wouldn't have been a super-slick move, though. The way Hinkie did it was just so cooool. Plus, and this really should be stressed, they don't have to pay Saric for at least two years! If they'd taken a player who actually played for them, they'd have to pay for that #12 draft slot. This way, they fill that body with some D-league guy on a minimum contract. Ca-ching!

You're right. What was I thinking! It will be so cool when he once again makes a trade at the deadline to add salary for the remainder of the year in order to reach the salary floor so he won't have to pay the players on the roster a bonus. You can't give the help these kinds of things. Otherwise they'll start feeling entitled.

Hinkie: Dario's more natural position is as a 4. He can maybe play some 3. It will be interesting to see how Joel/Noel can play together. Both of them say they can easily play together and play either center or power forward.

Hinkie: Unsurprised at the backlash from fans, shocked how long it took for it to start...very complimentary to the fans, even with the obvious backlash from last night.

Of course, it's all spin, they're just in it for max profits

Hinkie: As soon as he got intel that Embiid was injured he "sniffed an opportunity". We have the right owners and the right situation to be able to take an injured player. We may be able to get him now.

Heh, Eskin kept prodding Hinkie about wanting to keep next year's first round pick and social media calling next year's season "Tank II". Eskin phrased the question three different ways or asked it three different ways about not wanting to make the playoffs resulting in a lost pick and Hinkie would only say that he tries to control what he can control. After Eskin asking it a different way a third time Hinkie just says "I want to build a championship caliber team".

Eskin was trying to get Hinkie to admit that he didn't want to make the playoffs next year so he wouldn't lose the pick. Hinkie wouldn't take the bait.

*should say - "not wanting to make the playoffs resulting in a KEPT pick"

Well, of course not. A more direct question would have been, "We know you don't want to make the playoffs next season, but is it really necessary to stink as bad next year as the team did this year?" Of course, I suppose the person asking that question might have been banned from future pressers, but with this team management that really isn't much of a loss since they don't give out any useful information anyway.

Pretty daft line of questioning. Nothing we could do with 3 and 10 would have gotten us to the playoffs. You're talking about improving by 15 wins, but really 20 or more because we didn't win at all after we moved Hawes and Turner. Wiggins wouldn't have made us a playoff team, and Randle (or Vonleh or Gordon) plus McDermott wouldn't have done it either.

Hinkie also said if there's a position where you accumulate too many players at it definitely should be center.

Zach Lowe

Philly next season is going to be awful...But watching Philly over the next half-decade is going to be amazing.

So it seems most on this site agree with the Embiid drafting, but there is a giant gap on the Saric(plus a 2 and a 1) pick?

While I understand a bit the fact that people are pissed about the team that will be on the floor next season from a "hoops quality" perspective, what were you expecting without Saric but inserting (name your guy)? McDermott? Would he be the answer?

And if you hate the Embiid pick, who did you want? The draft is the only chance to build the right way. Embiid as a chance to be a generational talent. A chance. That's a good enough reason to take the shot. Last season with all the bad games (and the Spencer Hawes 3's at the buzzer against MIL), was still better that watching the previous season. By a mile. And this season will be better than the last.

Now that Toll is gone, I can say that I respect everyone who comments on this site. And Brian's opinions, while I may disagree on some, are always well thought out. Is the gap really that big between the current strategy/vision and the anti-hinkie crew's vision (whichever vision that is)?

That was not meant to be a "reply" by the way.

I think it does hinder team development a bit if this guy we plan to play one day won't be here for two years. If he's just an asset we're collecting for, potentially, some future mega-deal, fine. He was certainly the highest-regarded talent at that spot. I'd be a little happier if we moved the pick for 16 and 19 and took 2 of Hairston, Harris, Adams, and Anderson, very possibly getting two core pieces for the price of one guy who doesn't obviously translate to the nba. But it's not the end of the world.

Hinkie: 4 of the top 5 prospects in next year's draft are PF/C. We're going to be watching that situation closely to see if we can isolate the one most likely to blow out a knee. It's important to us that we only use high draft picks on potentially damaged goods.

Funny

The day Howard Eskin retires will be a great day for Philadelphia sports and common sense

Not sure how much I buy the 'begging to be here', or the spin Sam put on it (You made Michael Carter-Williams the rookie of the year, I can only imagine what you can do for my player the agent thinks), but hey if it's true, it's nice (and surprising) to hear

So Hinkie said 5 to 8 months for Embiid's injury, not 4 to 6.

What's the over/under for when the team starts hinting that he won't play at all? My guess is right around opening night.

Actually if you opened your ears to what Hinkie said, you'll realize he pretty much said he won't be playing next year already...

Which I had expected

Did he not say 5 to 8 months? I'm working for a living, so going off reports of what he said.

I wish I could find a company that valued failure like the Sixers. How sweet would it be if you could just call all your customers and tell them to fuck off. "We'll worry about you in five years, if you're still around. We don't need you to make our money."

he said 5-8 months but explained that he wont play until he his healthy(im paraphrasing)

Anger fueling your thought processes always is a good idea...yes Hinkie said 5-8 months but he also said something else which to me said don't expect to see him play (which I had expected anyway)

But please rant some more about how that 1-2 months will make all the difference in the world.

He's not going to play. I think everyone knows that. I was just wondering when they'd start priming the pump for that news. I wasn't even criticizing him when you jumped down my throat.

mullens declined his player option

I guess not everybody is begging to play here.

Wow! Well, that should be the first indication of free agent interest.

heres the replay for anyone who missed the press conference and wants to see it

http://www.nba.com/sixers/live

I am a season ticket holder, and I think the Sixers are asking too much of us. 19 wins last year, and now they are basically announcing two more years of this. The arena is absolutely dead.

Was that a press conference or a shareholders annual meeting?

Starchy roundabouts, but delivered politely.

I'm very happy to hear that many players want to come to Philadelphia due to the regime's culture uprising, the club's new direction and a surge in fan interest. The coast of Camden is icing on the cake.

More from the Zach Lowe piece:

A team you’d be advised to avoid watching next season: the Philadelphia 76ers, who turned two first-round picks into an injured big man and a delightfully feisty Croatian who won’t be in the NBA for at least two years.

We have never seen an experiment quite like this. This is an unprecedented convergence of a GM with big dreams and a new ownership group happy to empower him to pursue those dreams. The Sixers and Sam Hinkie don’t really care about being good, or filling the arena, or pleasing season-ticket holders. I mean, they care about all of those things, to a degree; Brett Brown is already legendary inside the team’s offices for his cold calls to season-ticket holders and his rollicking in-person speeches before groups of them — speeches that convince people to re-up and watch a miserable team lose by 20.

But those cares don’t drive their vision. The Sixers want to win big. They have no interest in being the late-2000s Hawks. They know the easiest avenue to win big is to find a superstar. Jrue Holiday is a nice two-way player, but he’s not going to be superstar. Maybe Nerlens Noel will be. Everyone seems to agree that Joel Embiid represents this draft’s best chance at a superstar, and so the Sixers, happy to embrace the risk of foot injuries and disastrously bad big men playing disastrously bad basketball for them next season, plucked Embiid right up.

They also get that the NBA’s draft lottery is at once an uncertain bet that might slay your dreams, and a smart wager at superstardom. Tankers fail, as Bill Simmons pointed out this week. Tank for Anthony Davis and you might get Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. But that doesn’t mean playing the lottery is dumb, especially if your only goal is to maximize your odds at nabbing a star. If your owners are cool with playing the lottery two or even three times, and really playing it, you only maximize those odds.

The Afflalo deal indirectly allowed Philly to edge those odds up even more. It introduced some uncertainty into the no. 11 slot, with Orlando waiting one pick behind at no. 12, needing a point guard and harboring an affection for Elfrid Payton (and Elfrid Payton’s hair). The Sixers were sitting in a plum spot at no. 10, and they wanted Saric. But they nabbed Payton instead, leading to Jeff Goodman’s delightfully awkward interview with Michael Carter-Williams.

They then called the Magic and squeezed a bit. Out plopped a 2015 second-rounder and the 2017 first-round pick that Philly had originally sent out in the Dwight Howard–Andrew Bynum–Iguodala festival of sadness. Those are more intriguing assets to use in a trade, should the right one become available at some point. Those are more picks with which to shoot the moon, hoping some jerk doesn’t collect the Queen of Spades on the last trick. If they could have added to the pile by trading Carter-Williams, they probably would have.

(Note: If and when the Sixers trade poor Thad Young, we should all agree to avoid use of the word “trade.” Perhaps “liberate,” or “mercy-deal,” or some other term would work better. I’m open to suggestions. Weep for Thaddeus Young).

No one knows how this will end. Owners and fans tend to get antsy during Year 3 of a rebuilding project; folks associated with the Magic talked about that last season, and Orlando is entering Year 3 post-Dwight having just traded its most reliable veteran player. Hinkie is among a wave of super-smart new-age GMs, and simple math says some of them will fail and lose their jobs. The NBA is a zero-sum game. Not everyone can succeed.

Watching Philly next season is going to be awful. It is only for the NBA’s jittery League Pass fiends watching four games at once, tweeting, and chugging Red Bull. But watching Philly over the next half-decade is going to be amazing.

...that's pretty much all of the lowe piece haha

Haha I only copied the Sixers part. The rest of the article is like 3 times longer!

Manu Ginobili was drafted in 1999 and didn't play in the NBA until 2002

Luis Scola was drafted in 1999 and didn't play in the NBA until 2007

Nikola Pekovic was drafted in 2008 and didn't play in the NBA until 2010

Omer Asik was drafted in 2008 and didn't play in the NBA until 2010

Tiago Splitter was drafted in 2007 and didn't play in the NBA until 2010

Ricky Rubio was drafted in 2009 and didn't play in the NBA until 2011

Drafting players knowing that they won't be able to sign or play for your team in a few years isn't uncommon and it's produced a lot of success. Why are people trying to make it sound as if the Sixers are doing this in order to avoid paying him for 2 years? Maybe they just really like the guy and are willing to wait for a few years until he can play for them.

A contract for the range they picked Saric in is about $2 million and that contract is only guaranteed for 2 years. If they were that cheap they would have just sold the pick or traded down until they ended up with a bunch of 2nds.

Good facts, Stan. Gotta qualify that success though:

- 1 funky, champion guard
- 4 muckers/contributors
- 1 heralded fancy dan with Dollar Store J

5 of 6 could have been purchased in the U.S.A.

Stojakovic was drafted in 1996, came over in 1998. Sabonis was drafted 24th in '86, came over 9 years later.

Now those boys could play. Sabonis came a little late though; too bad for Portland.

BIG Dude...

5 of those 6 guys were given contracts that paid them $8+ million a year after their rookie contracts ran out. The other guy is still on his rookie deal. Those guys except for Ginobili are nothing special and you could find equal talent in free agency, but at least you get to retain their rights.

Sharone Wright, Shawn Bradley, Matt Geiger, Derrick Coleman, 'Big Dog' Robinson, Chris Webber, 'Deke' Mutombo, Sam Dalembert, Andrew Bynum, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid [final 2 players not written off - yet]... who's the Sixers big man scout for the last 25 years? Get him outta here!! One-way Amtrak ticket to Tuscaloosa.

As far as guys they drafted, Dalembert was a pretty good pick. I think he was like 25th overall or something.

The Haitian Sensation. Or the Canadian Dolar. You're talkin' to the wrong guy about Sam and quality. IMO he is to the center position as Billy King is to the GM spot. What a contract off of 1 series vs. Detroit. I'd have signed it too, though. Serendipitous Sam aka the lanky clown.

The more I think about the Sixers, the more I think they've become an extended Seinfeld episode. With extra Cosmos and Georges. It's time to laugh. Sam, you are the greatest.

Some dates to look forward to in summer league. By the way, we're going to have Sean Kilpatrick and Scottie Wilbekin on our summer-league team, as well as some guy with a vertical that exceeded the maximum recordable mark (46'') on Toronto's vert machine from St. Joe's. Either of the first two could conceivably make the team, as might Isaiah Sykes, a super-athletic SG out of UCF who can't shoot, like all our prospects.

July 5 vs. ORL. MCW simultaneously faces off against his biggest rival in ROY voting and Elfrid Payton, the guy he thought we were trading him for. Noel has his debut as a Sixer, possibly playing against former Sixer Dewayne Dedmon. McDaniels shuts down Oladipo. Jerami Grant gets to match up against a player (Aaron Gordon) almost as unskilled as himself. Hinkie has awkward chats with the GM he just hosed.

All the remaining matchups in the Orlando league (OKC, HOU, BRK) are unexciting, though we may see a fun Noel-Capela matchup in the Houston game. Capela doesn't want to be stashed, reportedly.

Then we go to Vegas. July 12 we play Utah in primetime on NBATV. Especially looking forward to Exum's first game as a pro (and his getting embarrassed by MCW/Wroten/Pierre), and more Noel against Gobert.

July 14 we play Cleveland on NBATV. The McDaniels-Wiggins matchup should be great. Also interested to see if Bennett's not fat anymore.

July 15 we play Phoenix on NBATV. Ennis faces off against fellow Syracuse PG MCW, McDaniels shuts down T.J. Warren just like old times in the ACC.

After that there's a playoff.

There's nothing unskilled about Gordon. except for the shooting mechanics.

im pretty sure MCW isnt playing in the summer league cause of the shoulder surgery he had

Ah yes. Well, Pierre going full-tilt at Exum will be fun too.

Haha, did I see somewhere that Aaron Craft is playing for one of the Sixers Summer League teams? SO MUCH HUSTLE

Tray, as far as moving back from #10 to get 2 later picks, they ended up getting those players in the 2nd round. Five first round talents and three possible future first team defenders is a great haul.

And two very high I.Q. guys in Saric and Micic. The asset pile is looking great as far as getting a star here in a trade down the road. If Noel and Embiid don't mesh than one gets us a stud scorer and an Embiid/Grant tandem can man the 5/4 positions, as an example.

And these pieces fit already, as far as positionally. A 5/4 rotation of Embiid, Noel and Saric; a couple of athletic wing defenders [Grant and McDaniel] who we hope can become decent shooters; and 2 solid big p.g.'s in M.C.W. and Micic.

Shooting guard is the only missing piece if these guys reach their potential.

So I guess this season's lineup will look like this:

Nerlens Noel/ Henry Simms
Thaddeus Young/ Jerami Grant
Hollis Thompson/ KJ McDaniels
Jason Richardson/James Anderson
MCW/Tony Wroten

I think Pierre will play about as much as Wroten, that Elliot Williams will still be around, and that we'll grab some people in free agency. I would like us to take a shot on Jimmer, Jordan Hamilton, Ed Davis.. possibly Xavier Henry or Aminu.

Or what about Vesely, or Greg Smith?

Is Vesely a free agent? I'd take a shot at him for the right price (somewhere around the league minimum). He needs to be properly coached.

Jimmer is also a decent target. The Sixers will need shooting and Jimmer is as good a target as any.

Yeah, I got those names from a list of free agents.

My guess is that Richardson never plays for the Sixers again. I'd rather see both rookie small forwards competing for the job than another year of Hollis. Ditto the thoughts on Pierre being the backup and maybe the Serb kid will be able to join the team. Wroten likely continues but hopefully plays much less point.

Given the moves (or lack of) made last summer and what was telegraphed on Thursday night's first round, I have no optimism that Hinkie will add any free agent who is clearly above D League level. There are some decent power forwards who could be had for mid-level or less. Getting an actual quality shooting guard (even one of normal NBA backup level) would be nice.

"Both rookie small forwards"

I think Grant's a four. I also don't think anything was telegraphed Thursday re tanking, but agree that our free agent signings will likely be confined to picking up cheap reclamation projects with potential, e.g. Jimmer or Vesely.

6'8" and 214 lbs. with 6.8 rebounds a game doesn't sound like an NBA power forward to me. Now I realize that circumstances dictated that Thad with a similar physical makeup was forced into that role, but that role has been a double edged sword for him and the team over his career. On the other hand, Grant's complete lack of 3 point shooting doesn't sound like the prototype of a small forward either. Maybe the team will have to make do with two Thads at power forward this year, not that it makes any difference to their fortunes I guess. Wonder if they'll average 9 rebounds a game between them?

I do like Jimmer as a free agent. Vesely? Well, I guess he can't be any worse than Byron Mullens.

He's a four like Warrick was, or like Josh Smith is (though Detroit's forced him to play out of position). He has no jump shot at all and is less suited to play 3 than Thad.

Jordan Hamilton and Ed Davis are two other guys I'd like Hinkie to think about.

Yes, I was thinking about Ed Davis, too. He's a good rebounder (something we haven't had in a power forward for awhile) and he's underutilized by Memphis. If the Sixers just managed to sign Jimmer and Davis, I could manage some level of contentment going into next season.

I would add that I see Grant playing in the D-League a lot.

Agreed. I don't see any meaningful FA signings this year, and frankly, don't want any. Let the kids play. This team as currently constructed looks as though it will be worse than last year but I don't see the point of picking up a couple marginal FAs just to add a few more meaningless wins.

2015-16 free agency could be an opportunity to get a shooter (someone like Danny Green, Gerald Green, Gary Neal.. all UFA in '15-'16) and then play the Durant sweepstakes in '16-'17. By then you'll have 2 years of Noel, hopefully a full year of Embiid, Saric as rook, 3 years of MCW, and maybe KJ can develop a shot.

Embiid - Noel - KJ McD - Durant - MCW
Saric, Danny Green (or one of other FA SG pick ups), Micic, Jerami G off the bench

Your Sixers in 3 years???

And actually that's a cheap team, most still on rookie deals. So you can bring in another big FA with Durant in '16-17.

I'm certainly not going to bank on Durant and I don't care to speculate on whether or not he would come here. Elton Brand was the best free agent the Sixers have been able to sign during this century. Nuff said about that.

I think Hinkie might be forced to sign some modestly capable free agents this year in order to 1) hold down the fan grumbling somewhat and 2) entice partners for his trade deadline deals where he acquires picks and gobs of salary so he can reach the compensation floor by the end of the season. After last season I'm convinced that this front office will never pay the existing roster players a single dollar of penalty bonus because of failure to reach the salary floor regardless of how utterly useless the late season acquisitions turn out to be.

I don't care to speculate on "MY" Sixers in three years, because I have no idea what to expect and what I would prefer is unlikely to happen anyway. We'll have two quality centers, maybe, and one of them will probably rather be traded. We might have a highly rated power forward from next year's draft unless we draft someone like Emmanuel Mudiay. If we have that kind of power forward, then Saric probably becomes expendable or just stays overseas. If we have Mudiay, then MCW probably becomes expendable. That's about all the foundation I have for any speculation. Three years away is probably 20 Hinkie deals away.

I would speculate that we keep the Noel-Embiid pairing and deal Saric at some point. Saric will be the plum prospect we dangle to teams whose superstars are running out on them. I think Durant stays in OKC, but that if he goes, Washington, San Antonio, or New York are more likely destinations than here.

It's not about banking on Durant, but we'll have gobs of cap space to make a splash and I don't see that happening this year or next. It's just playful speculation. That's all.

After next year, we'll have had 5 lottery picks. We're going to need two more years to really know what we have, but there better be at least 3 or 4 of them that become studs to build around or trade bait to bring someone else in. I don't know enough about next year's draft to speculate, but there comes a point in time where asset accumulation needs to translate into real players producing toward contention. Obviously that ain't happening in the next couple years and Hinkie doesn't want to give Boston our 1st rounder next year (hence the tank with Embiid and Saric not contributing wins now).

My initial reaction after Thur night was somewhere between disgust and apathy until I realized how awful previous trade deals tied up future draft picks. Next year is another lost cause. It will be awful. If I'm saying the same thing after next year's draft, then it's time to break out the pitch forks.

"Next year is another lost cause. It will be awful. If I'm saying the same thing after next year's draft, then it's time to break out the pitch forks."

Atta boy! That's the spirit. You've actually inspired me to be a bit more patient for the moment. However, if Hinkie doesn't sign at least one player better than D League caliber this summer, I'll at least be sharpening mine!

As far as the two no-show first rounders, Hinkie obviously was shooting for much lower than mere playoff avoidance. The team should get another very high draft pick next year. Hopefully, he'll want one by then who plays immediately.

"The team should get another very high draft pick next year. Hopefully, he'll want one by then who plays immediately."


Is this a bad time to suggest (if not high enough for Mudiay) we ignore all the PF/C prospects and go after the Crazy Croatian, Super Mario Hezonja in next year's draft? C'mon buke, 2020 is gonna be a helluva season.

It would be funny if Hinkie really doesn't have a master plan and he's just drafting injured players and stashing euros just so he can pro-long his tenure as GM. He always has "next year" to look forward to.

I've thought along similar lines, but I don't think a GM should be allowed more than one year like last year (where the only goal is being as terrible as possible). After that, at least some modest improvement should be sought.

so jason kidd wants a phil jackson type role with the bucks(acording to woj) and stein says they are already discussing compensation to free Kidd from last three years of Brooklyn contract

Why do I have a feeling this whole "act" by Kidd is just an effort to force Brooklyn to fire him so he can go to the Bucks (or anywhere else) as he sees the mess that the Nets are in? He's getting paid either way right?

One report said he's pissed off (at the Nets?) because Derek Fisher and Steve Kerr got better deals. Pure megalomania.

Actually the most interesting thing I've read about all this today is that one of the bucks new owners still indirectly owns a piece of the Nets through a blind trust. Even as a blind trust I'm surprised the NBA didn't require divestiture before buying the Bucks.

More reports make this about power, not money...and some believe he'll end up being the bucks president of basketball, which means Wiggins career is already off to a bad start.

Crap, still waking up, Parker not Wiggins

looks like kidd wanted to trade Brook Lopez and Mirza Teletovic to Milwaukee for Larry Sanders and Ersan Ilyasova at the trade deadline last season but management said no and kidd got mad they traded for marcus Thornton over jarrett jack(from nets daily)

Those are actually pretty solid deals for Brooklyn IMO. I'm not a big fan of Lopez or Thorton.

But I really don't fault him for wanting more power since he has Billy King as the GM. It's just a frustrating situation for Brooklyn because their capped out, they don't have any draft picks, and their players are aging, injured and declining.

‏@WojYahooNBA Toronto has traded John Salmons to Atlanta for Lou Williams and Bebe Nugiera, source tells Yahoo.

Seating escorts will be equipped with cattle prods this upcoming season. No word yet on voltage.

Stun baton practice will commence for aisle monitors, rookies AND veterans, after Labor Day on the new practice facility site. Casual attire. Rodent repellent will be furnished at the gate. Boxed lunches will be served by the Ladies Auxiliary.

"Brevity is the soul of wit". Some words of advice from a contemporary of yours, Poloniu$.

Up yours.

... thus your 16-letters handle.

76ers, tank battalion. "Parade rest."

Brian, after mulling the draft for a weekend, have you reached a greater degree of enthusiasm for the 76ers direction? Looks like team full of Iggys forming... athletic, pick up the pace, non-shooters/defenders. Maybe buttressed in a year by a healthy Embiid.

Hinkie shows an aversion to players who can bomb accurately, an odd tact in this day of predominant 3-point shooting. I don't believe it's that easy, as some have suggested, to find shooters like McDermott, whose game is being given early short shrift with convenient tags like Szczerbiak II. Based on reports of a high b-ball IQ and a rounder game than is generally credited, I think Chicago landed itself a winner.

I don't think McDermott would've been the answer or anything, but he certainly would've helped this team more than Saric ever will. That was a wasted pick, imo. He may come over in three years, but Tony Kukoc w/out the shot doesn't exactly scream stud to me.

As for the team Hinkie is putting on the floor. I have zero interest in watching this group of scrubs get destroyed on the floor for 82 games this year. Viewed in a bubble, there's no way he should have a job after assembling this group and forcing it on the fans of the team. If you're talking about the long-term teambuilding he's doing, well, I'll let you know how I feel about it when he actually starts building a team. Right now, he's got a PG who can't shoot to save his life, an inherited PF who gives you a spark, but can't rebound or shoot, a C who hasn't played in 18 months due to an injury that should take 12 months, at most, to heal from, and a bunch of second round/NBADL borderline talents, none of which can hit a shot outside of 5 feet. And then you've got Embiid. If Embiid can somehow stay healthy (and really, that's like a 20% chance at this point), he's got a chance to be good enough to matter.

If you want to by pollyannaish about it, you can ooh and ahh at the great assets Hinkie has acquired. If everything works out perfectly, he might have a franchise center, a good defensive PF in Noel, a PG who can defend a little and not shoot at all, and maybe if he's lucky he got a wing who can defend but can't shoot at all. That's what he's assembled in his two years at the helm, using four lottery picks over that time and whatever trade assets he inherited. I suppose I'm supposed to be so impressed by that haul that I'll ignore the team he's putting on the floor again, however I'm not.

One thing he has done is kept the team in a great position to use its cap space. Of course, that could also be a mandate from ownership, to keep costs low. Who knows. Either way, I guess it's another year of misery with a promise that they know what they're doing, and this 10-year plan to build a contender. I'm not sure when it will be cool to panic, but I'm feeling pretty anxious already.

Enjoyed reading your thorough reply. Thanks, Brian.

I'm in the same boat. Hard to get enthusiastic for another season of subpar ball. Brown will put his verbal ribbons and bows on it as the Ls mount. The premises of the Sixers operation may be well-founded (who knows at this point?) but fans of watching good basketball, not of eventually obtaining bragging rights through a drip-drip-drip process, are being dismissed. There is a "trust us" arrogance that's unbecoming and unbelievable.

Harris, Hinkie, O'Neil, Witte & Brown: a solvent, ambitious firm of Infirm Basketball Until Tomorrow. Brown doesn't appear to be clueless, but looks like he's along for the ride.

Young-No-More, Hyphen, Tony the Tiger, Flattop, Son of Brothers, Rockin' Chair Richardson... hoo boy, marketing dept. has its work cut out.

Who is "Son of Brothers?"

Obviously I'm not enamored with Hinkie's first round decisions last Thursday, but, in one respect, I find some agreement with Tray: this season may be marginally more interesting than the last one. Last season we had two starters who most everyone thought would be gone by the end of the year (and they were). We do have the player who was regarded as the best player in last year's draft prior to his injury and he and Sims may provide a better defensive center tandem than we've had in some time. Two or three of the second rounders (McDaniels, Micic, and maybe Jackson) are worth following to see how they can develop if they all end up on the opening day roster.

There are some other stories of interest. What will Hinkie do with Thad? Which returnees will be outright waived? Will he sign any decent role-player free agents? Despite last summer's complete inaction, I'm not fully certain that Hinkie won't sign a couple this summer.

The Knicks traded Tyson Chandler for Shane Larkin and some 2nd round picks. The Magic traded Afflalo for Fournier and the 54th overall pick.

After seeing those trades, I think Hinkie got a steal when they traded Hawes.

I'm guessing Thad's value is a bottom 1st round pick along with a bad contract.

You're probably dead-on with Thad. Speaking of the Mavs, my guess is they're out because I have a hunch that Lebron might end up there and they don't have any expensive players they'd want to discard even though they might have that kind of late first rounder. Not nearly as much dead weight laying around the league these days.

"maybe if he's lucky he got a wing who can defend but can't shoot at all."

That whole comment is offbase (where does 20% that Embiid gets healthy come from? Would we have picked him over even Vonleh if our doctors thought so?) but this is really unfair to McDaniels. McDaniels is a pretty sure thing defensively, and as a shooter he's already better than Kawhi was in college. If you take out the threes he forced up because he was the only player on his team and look at the threes he'll actually be taking with us, spot-ups, he's already above-average, hitting, per Synergy/Draftexpress, 39% of his threes with his feet set.

... but from 20' 9", not 23' 9"... those 3 ft. shake out the pretenders, as do more athletic defenders.

My 20% comment comes from a guy playing less than 650 minutes in a season, and suffering not one, but two stress fractures as a result. And both stress fractures being in problematic areas of the body. How many big men have been felled by foot problems? And back problems? He's got issues in both areas at the age of 20, and he really doesn't have any mileage on his body at all. It's not like we're talking about a guy who's been playing AAU ball since he was 10. He's relatively new to the sport, and his introduction to the rigors of the NCAA schedule didn't exactly go well.

So yes, he could have a nice, long, healthy career. But I'd say overwhelming odds should be placed against that result. If you can make an argument to the contrary that isn't based on hope, I'd love to hear it.

And McDaniels may have been a stud defender as a Jr playing against a bunch of freshmen, he may not be a stud defender against threes in the NBA. Either way, he can't shoot a lick. The thing I like most about his college numbers, though, is the consistent improvement from the line. That's very encouraging, going from 57% as a freshman to 84% as a junior, on 5.1 attempts/game. That shows hard work imo, which is a good indicator. I definitely don't think he'll be a contributor on the offensive end at the NBA level, though. Not with that jumper and a 1.9/2.7 assist-to-turnover ratio in his Jr. year.

Brian, I'm pretty sympathetic with your views here and appreciate your thoughtful articulation of them, but I wish you would stop repeating a mantra about college basketball that simply isn't true: upperclassmen should be discounted because they're playing against freshman.

There are something like 350 D1 college like basketball teams. Of all the players on those teams, about 8 freshman and 10 sophs entered the NBA this year. You can make a good case that those players are better than their classmates who remain, but except for teams like Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, and Michigan this year, those most elite underclassmen are scattered around the place. Even if you take the most elite conferences, none of them are sending all that many freshman and sophs to the NBA.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of college basketball players play for four years and very few teams are throwing a bunch of freshmen and sophs at their opponents. Some of those, like this year's KY team and last year's Michigan team, have managed great success with very young elite lineups. Other teams relying heavily on elite underclassmen haven't fared as well (this year's Duke team getting upset by Mercer and Duke a few years ago losing to Lehigh; last year's Kentucky team losing to Robert Morris in the NIT, this year's Kansas team losing to fairly unheralded Stanford).

I should have said good freshman and limited underclassmen, my bad :)

The thing I really dislike about the Dario Saric pick is the uncertainty on whether or not he is going to play for the Sixers in 2 or 3 years. This is the guy who last year went back and forth on whether he wanted to enter the draft. This year he did the same thing, but entered the draft, and decided to sign a 3 year deal with some club in Turkey a few weeks before the draft. So now the Sixers have to pursue him heavily and convince to either opt out after his 2nd year or convince him to not sign another deal overseas after this one is up. I don't even know what the protections are concerning his contract. How long do the Sixers retain his rights and does he still fall under the rookie scale guidelines when he decides to come to the NBA? I read somewhere that the Bulls are expected to give Mirotic a contract starting at $5 million/year.

Saric is a risk I wouldn't mind taking if he was a bottom 1st or early 2nd rounder. Most stashed Euros are picked in that range. #10 is supposed to be a guy who is a future starter. I'm not as impressed as other people are on what Hinkie did .

But I will give him this: As far as playing abilities goes I think Saric was the best player at where he was taken. I like him more than McBuckets and if Saric works out getting back that 1st rounder back is far better trading down for 16 and 19.

As far as Embiid goes I like to think that the Sixers decided to take him when other teams decided to pass on him because of their willingness to wait 1 year whearas other teams were looking for instant gratification. It would be really disturbing if the Sixers took him without being confident that he could make a full recovery in a year. When it came to Bynum I don't think they were confident which is why they didn't extend him right away and put protections on their first round picks. When it came to Brand it was his Achilles that gave him problems and it was shoulder/age that affected him when he got here. I would like to give the Sixers the benefit of the doubt on this one. And like I said it would be really disturbing if they read his medical reports and decided to take a 50/50 shot with the #3 overall pick.

You're severely underrating Saric if you actually believe that's a waste of a pick. Saric dominated the Adriatic League this year. He led his team to win the Finals and he won league MVP. He's also dominated on both the European and world stage against his own age group in FIBA competitions. If you look at the box scores of his FIBA games, he'll be the team stat leader in every category, and his teams routinely finish with either Gold medals or near the top. It's pretty rare to see a 20 year old already dominating a league.

Scouts routinely called him the most skilled player in the draft. Add to that fact that he's only 20 and he's 6-10. People continue to underrate him as a bad defender because he's white and European, when in fact he's a very solid defender who generates a lot of blocks and steals

People like to compare Saric to Kukoc and often say it like it's a bad thing. Which is weird considering Kukoc was the sixth man on three championship teams and had more win shares per 40 minutes than Pippen and Rodman did in the first two championship runs. Then when he got more minutes, he actually had more win shares than Pippen did in the final championship run.

Plus, Saric is actually a much better rebounder and ball handler than Kukoc. They're both pretty different players, but I would certainly take a guy who becomes the 4th best player on one of the greatest teams of all time.

@tmoore76ers #Sixers waived James Anderson

Really challenging to discuss the Sixers right now, since you have intense opinions about the team and no way to know who is right for at least 2-3 years. I'm not that strongly of one opinion or the other, but will continue to take a wai and see approach until it all (slowly) plays out.

Viewpoints:
1. Talk radio types who bemoan the team being several years away from even having their key players on the court and kicking their rebuild into full gear. Frustration over next year not being as exciting since Embiid and Saric will not be on the floor. There is a real kernel of truth to this, as even heading into Summer League it is a bit of a let down to not see the future on the court. Even if that "future" had been a lower upside player like Gordon. But there also is a bit of a fair weathered fan part of this, in that the team would have stunk next year and having a rookie now versus next March wold not make a long term difference.

2. Brian, with his person ire towards all things Wall Street, convinced the owners are just tearing down a distressed asset with the intention to sell or move (or both.) I guess you can't really prove or disprove this type of conspiracy theory for several years. people had terrible things to say about Lurie the first few years.

3. The "Get off my yard" people (Dollar Bill, George Karl) who both hate analytics over old school hustle and cannot stand the notion of tanking in the hope of long term success. Words like "culture of losing" get thrown around. Again, it will be a few years to know.

4. The LB and analytic blogger crowd that has built a shrine to Hinkie. To some extent you see people say things like, "I would not have picked that player, but since Hinkie did it then it must be brilliant." Again, a few more years should tell us if Hinkie is the best GM ever, the worst or somewhere in between.

I was hoping things could have played out where Hinkie picked guys ready to play, if only to accelerate both the rebuilding process and the timeline of when we can fully judge Hinkie and the ownership. But I also see how the Embiid injury and the first 9 picks sort of forced Hinkie hand to pick Embiid and Saric- as other picks in those spots would not have fit his preferred types of picks.

What I mean by my last comment is that prior to Embiids foot injury I think the draft could have played out having the Sixers pick Wiggins at #3 and then trading up a few slots to get Vonleh. Wiggins/Vonleh would have been a great haul and would have provided Hinkie cover from criticism for the next few years while we waited to see how the team developed.

But once Embiid slid out of the top 2 the team was stuck having to take a huge risk with Embiid or draft a player with a far lower ceiling. And once they had embiid and Noel, then trading up for Vonleh made less sense. I think 8 of the top 9 drafted were the top tier. Saric was the next tier (along with maybe McDermott since he is a super-elite shooter.) So that meant trading back or picking McD. But McD did not fit the team philosophy of not being able to shoot (I mean guys with length and multidimensional skills as opposed to shooters.) So they traded back for Saric + 2017 #1 and 2015 #2 instead of trading back to #16 and #19.

I can see the reasoning, as getting the 2017 #1 back is huge in terms of being allowed to make future trades. The rule where you cannot trade away your own pick in consecutive years, plus the fact that their pick had protections that would push it back for several years, kept them from being able to trade a future pick til something like 2020. Ultimately I think Hinkie wants to be in the position to trade for a star, and it really helps to be able to throw in your future 1sts in that type of deal.

Here's the thing I don't get, what happened to all the Exum defenders? From the time Embiid hurt his foot until the Sixers actually took Embiid, all I heard was how Exum was going to be a superstar, and Hinkie has watched all this tape, and Exum was the best possible pick, and Exum is better than Wiggins. Then the Hinkie God takes an injured guy over him and not a peep. Not even a hint of regret, those same people are just 100% behind taking Embiid like it was the obvious thing to do all along since no one else in this draft has superstar potential. I mean, Jim Jones didn't have followers this loyal.

I'm somewhat guilty here.

I was intrigued by Exum... from what I read of all the scouting reports and of what little I saw. In addition, I'm not sold on MCW at PG. I was on board with Exum at 3 after the Embiid injury and on the condition there was a deal in place with the Lakers or Kings to grab one of the PFs (preferably Vonleh or Randle) and then a shooter (Stauskus) at 10. At least we would have had a foundation in place with something to watch next year.

The big unknown were/are those medical reports. If Embiid can fully recover and the risk of long-term or recurring injury are low enough, then I don't see how you can pass on him. It's just tough dealing with not even getting a chance to see your top 2 picks play.

Well one explanation is that Embiid > Exum > Wiggins. But more simply than that even, everyone knows that Embiid has the most talent of anyone in this draft. My view was always that if Embiid was too injured to draft, Exum would be a great pick, but if we took Embiid, it would mean that Hinkie and his medical people thought Embiid's long-term prognosis was pretty strong, in which case Embiid would be the right pick. I don't really have any basis on which to differ with Hinkie's assessment of Embiid's health, other than the fact that the top two teams passed on him. But they may have felt that the alternatives were nearly as strong prospects as Embiid, in which case, their picks are consistent with the hypothesis that Embiid's medical records aren't that scary.

I can't help on that one. I had both Exum and Smart as a tier below Parker... and Parker below Wiggins and Embiid. I think Exum and Smart both might be stars, but at a position where there are lots of stars... and neither are going to be great shooters.

I have no clue about how Embiid,s health will turn out. I worry about elite centers even when they don't have an injury history. But no doubt that if healthy Embiid is special in a way that does not come along every draft. I think he has a chance of being a bigger impact than Anthony Davis because he is a legit center in a league of no centers. And Noel and Embiid could actually work given how quick they both are. On offense it might take a while for them to gel, but they both are very quick decisionmakers with the ball, which should help. Obviously they both need to extend their range. But on defense it could almost be like having two Dwight Howards, they are both so quick, explosive and intimidating. Throw in an elite shotblocker at the wing in McDaniels, and teams might never enter the lane... but that is years away from materializing, and would be even if they were healthy given how they are young and need to learn defensive principles.

I'm still sad that they went with Embiid over Exum. I'm perfectly on board with the Saric trade/pick and all of the other picks in the secon round, but the top pick, the one that mattered the most - i'm not happy with it. I can accept it as i can see the upside in Embiid, but i do think the injury issues are too scary.

What i am trying to say i am on board with the logic that instant gratification is not necessary and the Sixers should pick BPA at every pick, but i'm not on board with the pick at #3. I think Exum was BPA at #3 considering Embiid's injury.

All year I've had Embiid in a tier by himself at the top. I still like Exum, but it's not like I flip-flopped, and I have the articles to prove it.

Tray,

This is much simpler than you're making it out to be.

1) Last year was god awful and the least the front office can do is start the rebuild this year incrementally. I understand the motivation to draft Embiid, but the Saric pick was just wrong under the circumstances. The Sixers appear to be an aspirant of the Thunder, but the Thunder got all of their main guys in place within three years. The Sixers aren't San Antonio whose fans don't care about multi-year stashes because they stay competitive year after year. Some sense of urgency is needed here. No one except Hinkie fan boys is going to get excited about the return of a protected 2017 pick.

2) I don't think anyone's theories about the owners really matter that much if we start seeing something on the court.

3) How do you know how Dollar Bill feels about analytics? Sounds like some youthful bigotry to me.

I agree with Larry Brown. Analytics are valuable. You use all the information you can but there is no substitute for watching a player and seeing what's in his eyes.

I would also say that Hinkie doesn't seem to follow analytics consistently. If he did, he would have tried to get Smart (the highest rated player by the analytics) in addition to Embiid instead of getting a multi-year Euro stash.

A "culture of losing" and a string of failed seasons are every bit as empirically valid as the Thunder experience (more empirically valid as far as my counting goes) so the narrow minded and irrational forces here appear to me as the ones who cannot tolerate any skepticism about Hinkie's genius.

As a character in the movie Cotton Club declares, "I hear what I hear and I see what I see." So far some of us are not seeing a horizon so bright that we gotta wear shades.

4) Ditto.

I am not tk76 ("Tray, this is much simpler than you're making it out to be"). But since it's addressed to me, I don't agree with any of that. About the Smart thing and analytics, there are lots of different projection models and not all of them have Smart on top. Maybe the one Hinkie's using doesn't. Of course, even if it did, Hinkie also uses traditional scouting, interviews, etc. And of course, we don't know whether we tried to move up and take Smart or not. Smart was picked at 6th. I never heard that Boston or Orlando or Utah were willing to move down, so it may well have been impossible. So that's just a really bad point.

On Saric, I think it's fair to assume that Hinkie does put some weight on a player's availability, and that he would prefer a player as talented as Saric who can play this year to Saric, or maybe even would prefer a player who's 80% as talented as Saric and who can play this year to Saric. But who was that guy? McDermott is an analytic and defensive disaster. Forget analytics; you don't need a projection model to be disturbed by a 6'8 player who averaged 0.2 steals and 0.1 blocks a game over a four-year career in the Missouri Valley Conference and weakened Big East. You may think he'll be a nice player, but I bet Hinkie doesn't think so. So while you can fault Hinkie for his evaluation of McDermott if he does turn out to be good, I don't think you can reasonably say that Hinkie should have taken him over a guy he thinks is vastly more talented because the latter player won't be around for two years. Lavine, picked at 13, is really quite dreadful, whatever Brian says. We'd have him learning how to play basketball for most of his rookie season in the D-League while paying him a lottery pick's salary, after which maybe one day he'd become Nick Young. Warren, Payne, Harris - role players with half of Saric's talent or potential. Nurkic would be our third center, James Young doesn't play defense or even shoot all that well, Rodney Hood went 23rd for a reason.

That said, even if McDermott's a decent player, something like a slightly more versatile Korver, I really don't get how the fans are being robbed of anything. You act like this team would be so much more competitive if we added an extra rookie role player to the mix. More realistically, whether it's McDermott or Gary Harris, I think we're talking about an extra two wins for a very bad team. With that guy or without him, fans who don't like watching us lose most of our games won't watch. If they don't watch, though, I think they'll be missing out on the early years of some really exciting young players.

Actually, the post wasn't intended for you. It was intended for TK. I got distracted by dogs while typing it and I typed the wrong name.

And by the way, I said nothing about McDermott so don't read between the lines and assume you know what I'm thinking. That's an example of naive and simple minded association ("He's an old guy so he must have wanted McDermott"). If I said "You're a young college educated guy so you must be a big fan of Vampire Weekend" wouldn't you think I was an idiot?

I would have preferred McDermott over Saric under the Sixers' (and Saric's) circumstances, but I would have preferred that the Sixers draft McDermott and flip him for two current picks (like the Nuggets did) even more.

I doubt I make judgments based on age- especially as I am not exactly young myself. I think on average the people most into analytics are people in their 30's who grew up on fantasy baseball. While on average younger fans probably enjoy flashy players. I'd say older fans value headier play because that was valued more back when they played and were first fans. Two ofthe biggest critics of analytics in the NBA are Karl and Rudy Gay, and I cannot thunk of two more different guys.

But that does not mean an individual fan can be accurately profiled. In fact, I think someone like like Harvey "Super Stat" Pollack was a forerunner of the analytics movement, and he is as old as dirt.

I listed a long series of players we might have taken, not just McDermott, and focused on McDermott out of that series only because Brian's suggested we might have taken him instead, and because there's at least more of a case to be made for him than some of the others. I don't know how old you are.

I may agree that it would have been best to trade down for 16 and 19 - have been saying so for months. I don't think much of Saric. But, evidently Hinkie does. If he thinks Saric is very talented, I don't know that failing to trade down to 16 and 19 is a mistake. Consider, after all, how lackluster the guys in that range were. I like Hairston, but he may just be a Marcus Thornton kind of player. Harris is unimpressive. Payne and Warren were off the board at 16. Nurkic and Capela, the two highest-upside guys in that range, were bad fits. Jordan Adams, the statistical darling, is severely limited athletically and is a kind of shooting guard garbage man. By the 19th pick, McDaniels was arguably the best player left on the board, and we got him anyway at 32. I think the answer to that is still that Saric just isn't very good, and between the two so-so prospects you take at 16 and 19 one might surprise you and turn out to be a very solid player. But I understand not trading down, especially since they really like Saric.

The "best player available" (in his mind) shouldn't be the only concern for Hinkie. If it is, then he is too narrow minded for the job. Decision making is supposed to weigh competing concerns. Leaders who fail to recognize that often perish.

Here's a guy who just put the fans through a 19-63 season with a 26 game losing streak and the season really seemed even worse than that record. He takes a guy who by wide consensus is believed to be the best player available at #3 but that guy won't play for a year and certainly has a more than an insignificant risk of being dogged by injuries after his playing commences. OK, fine. He's supposed to have the potential to be great. Then he compounds that by using his second lottery pick on a guy who is almost certain not to play for two years and has more than an insignificant risk of not playing here at all. And nobody is claiming this guy has the potential to be a generational player.

I find it hilarious that to justify this decision, you choose to completely write off the bottom half of the first round. Gary Harris might not be the most interesting player available but he is a shooter (something the Sixers need desperately) and both he and James Young were available. CJ Wilcox was available. Another shooter, Rodney Hood, was available. Shabazz Napier was available. Mitch McGary was available. Kyle Anderson was available. He might look slow but if the Spurs took him, he has a better than even chance of being productive. Finally, Cleanthony was also available and he and McDaniels could have given the fans something interesting to watch as they competed for the starting SF position.

In defense of his serious GM Hinkie crush, the out-of-town doctor prescribes mush for blog readers here, reducing OTHER watchers of team to 4 psychological archetypes. Caution: may cause drowsiness; do not operate car/machinery during use.

It must be noted that tk76 earlier practiced informational quackery regarding myself when he guessed and wildly asserted that I was a provincial Philadelphia zip code resident sort, suggesting a certain smallness of mind as opposed to his abundancy and cosmopolitan views on the matter of the Camden practice facility. In fact I've never lived within the parameters of the city of Philadelphia. There went accuracy out the window in rushing defense of his favorite band, Hinkie Dinkie Do & the Doldrums.

Erroneous prescriptions are alive and well and not necessarily living in Paris. So too the God-complex. Modesty, thy name is being called.

Somehow it took me a week to successfully setup a login. Sorry for the novel here. Yikes.

I can sympathize with season ticket holders who are disappointed with the draft outcome. We are going to have less of a product this year than I had hoped. That said, I can't argue against the consistency of the plan. Hinkie, again, is maximizing the value of his assets. Embid and Saric both fit the story the same way Noel did. We now have a significantly higher chance of keeping that draft pick AND we took the highest ranked/best upside guys. This won't go on forever, and hopefully the debt that was left by previous management will be largely made up by next year. And I am on board with the plan. So if I want to see it play out, then I have to be patient. There is no guarantee that it will work, so I will critique it when a move goes wrong. Hinkie probably could have gotten better value for Turner and Hawes had he dealt them earlier. That is my one negative tick for the GM thus far. My positive is the Carter-Williams pick and some theoretical value that he got from the Jrue trade. So we are in the VERY early innings here. I think the stance has been way too extreme in both support and dismiss.

I am of the view that GMs SHOULD have time to see things out. Its unrealistic for guys to turn things around in 2 years when they get a situation like Hinkie was left with. I know thats not how things work, but its like firing a college coach before his recruits even hit the court/field. I know this isn't a sports-only problem (the stock market mostly moves on quarterly earnings rather than long term track records and results) but it feels magnified. Maybe Hinkie has gotten a golden situation where he convinced owners to give him more time than other franchises would, but hell, wouldn't you rather that than a guy with a match stick under his ass that has to rush decisions for short term results? Again, its going to come down to opinion, but I am all for the long term. Season ticket holders should be pissed in the context of this season, absolutely.

As for the draft picks:

Embid - we all agree the upside is undeniable. None of us have a clue what his health will be, and we should all feel free to form our opinions based on what is out there. I choose to listen to what Hinkie said and how he said it "I smelled opportunity". I choose to listen to Ainge say today "we would have taken him". They watched enough Dante Exum tapes to have a strong view. I choose to group all of this and have a confident outlook that Embid returns in good form. From there, who the hell knows. But I REALLY like the pick, and I REALLY like the thought of him and Noel together. Brian likes to talk about the oversupply of point guards in the league....what is the most undersupplied position? The league is in a shift to wing dominance...is that due to structural changes or just the fact there is no dominant big out there? I'd love to test that question with our team in a few years.

Quick digression to our interest in Wiggins. I don't believe that we were "bluffing the whole time". You don't bring a guy to your facilities for 3 days just to "bluff". I believe we had legitimate interest and thought he would fall to us at 3. I have no idea where we ranked Embid on our big board but my guess is either tied with Wiggins or at 2.

Saric - I was honestly pissed when the first 9 taken were the 9 guys I was happy to have. I had no idea what to do. Saric, to me, doesn't seem to have the speed to compete in the league but its very tough to tell from tape. I also wanted a shooter at this spot, although we can't be drafting for need yet. Basically, I am not a huge fan of Saric, but who knows. It is clear he was ranked very highly by scouts and draft professionals who know a shit-ton more than I do. He has a unique style of play. He should be an asset for us in some form. It is what it is and I didn't have a strong pull for any other player at 10. This is one I will let Hinkie prove me wrong on.

The trade. At the end of the day it comes down to wins and losses for a GM, but I HAVE to give him credit for the trade. Its a first round pick no matter how you look at it. 2 spots down, a first round pick. I don't like Saric but I love this move. And it took stones to pull this off without a deal in place. I think the gamble of not dealing Hawes and Turner early for something else is more than offset by this gamble and subsequent deal here.

KJ McD - this is my irrational love pick. He really has the tools to be a defensive stud. His FT% implies to me that he can fix a set corner three. As much as a big dominant center does NOT fit the mold of the new NBA, this guy perfectly fits the mold. Dropping James Anderson means this guy gets out on the court. Look at KJ's freshman per 40 stats relative to Wiggins, almost identical. Not making that comparison for upside, but just pointing out that he was fine as a freshmen just in a reduced role. He improved over 3 years. If we had traded two 2nd rounders to move to 21 and taken KJ then I think there would be a lot more excitement. This guy could be super valuable for us.

Jerami Grant - can't argue with the pick. Lots of upside, fits our system, 1st round projections. Close with MCW from their Cuse days. Great understudy for Thad (if he is here). No argument but also don't expect much.

Micic - I love the tape on him, great point guard skills. Happy with the pick but he could never come over.

Pierre Jackson - could work with MCW as a bench sparkplug.

I think KJ could be a rotational guy and expect 1 of the 3 the others to have some value going forward. Nothing crazy sexy there but I like the value.

My biggest concern leading into next year is MCW's progression, particularly with his supporting cast. Without shooters around him, it may be inevitable that he develops bad habits. I would love to see him develop a floater game and better pick and roll offense with Noel.


Conclusion: I thought it was a fine draft and I continue to be excited about our future. I am very excited to watch KJ and Noel on the defensive end this year to see what their potential is.

I am sure it won't ALL pan out but a team of:
MCW
McDaniels
Saric
Noel
Embid

could work. Lets just say Saric doesn't even pan out. The Sixers foundation would be attractive for a high scoring wing to come in. Compare that to a team with a bunch of high volume scorers like Sacramento. Count me in.

IMO your fairly optimistic take is just as fair as all of the negative reactions. We just don't know how all of these variables will pan out and the team could go in almost any direction over the next 3 years given these huge variables. They could be a rising contender or they could be a mess. And by taking a shot at Embiid and Saric they leave the opportunity open of having legit superstars. It could all be another disaster, but they are swinging wildly for the fences. I just worry it us a Ryan Howard typebat bat.

As for Saric, I think of him in terms of versatile rotations. He could start and finish games at the SF, while playing effectively at PF whenever Embiid or Noel are on the bench. I sort of expect the Centers to play lesser minutes early in their career, partly because you want them to be able to go all out on defense without worrying about fouls. While I see Saric as the wise before his years type who you
basically want on the floor all of the time since he can pretty much provide everything on the offensive end as a scoring point forward.

He can provide everything but shooting.

MCW
McDaniels
Saric
Noel
Embiid

The center is the best shooter with range out to 15 feet.

You are making it out as if Saric is a non-shooter, which is not the case. He's not an elite shooter but he did shoot 34% or something like that from 3 last year and he's still young and improving. The previous year he was worse, so the upward trajectory in his shooting is evident. His catch and shoot numbers are pretty good IIRC, it's the off the dribble jumper that he needs to work on (as most young players).

In that lineup Saric is probably the best shooter, but i don't think that's the lineup the team will try to contend with in the future anyway. More draft picks will be picked before than and more importantly, a shooter will be acquired in free agency IMO.

What are the chances that we ever see that lineup?

If Embiid becomes a franchise player, two of the other four develop into key starters on a contender, and we sign another star I'd be satisfied.

However, even if only one or two of those guys pans out we at least have a core to start building around. Most people on here believe that MCW is not that player, but what is Noel's upside? He should at least be a reason to watch the team this season (and yes, it's unfortunate that there are not many other reasons).

To me, Noel's upside is probably DeAndre Jordan. Something like that. Solid starter on a good team. I don't think you can project him to be anything more than that. Big defensive presence, limited on the offensive end. Hopefully he won't have the yips from the line. The bad thing about Noel is we'll have one less year of work to judge him on before his second contract because of the injury...at least one less year. Same goes for Embiid...at least one less year.

Based on their comparable college careers huh?

You think Noel is going to surpass Jordan? Jordan isn't a bad player at all. I think that's a pretty favorable example.

I think Jordan was no where where Noel was at the same time in their careers (coming out of college) so I think even marginal improvement and he'll surpass Jordan

True, but Noel was a top prospect for his defense. He was still raw on offense. Even so, Jordan isn't really that bad of a comp. If you take the past 4 years when he's started, he's avg'd 65 FG%, 8.5pts, 9reb, 2blk. That's only on 5.3 FGA/gm so figuring Noel gets almost double those shot attempts on this team and hits a couple more FTs, a line of something like 15/9/2 would be decent production... esp alongside a healthy Embiid.

You're acting like Noel was some kind of offensive dynamo in college, he really wasn't. I'm pretty sure Jordan also has better size, and no blown knee ligaments.

And what was DeAndre Jordan when he was drafted?

You're rewriting/ignoring history to fit your narrative about how the sixers owners only care about their profiteering...

Other than both being defensive centers, I really do not see them as very comparable. One is Jordan has the advantage of great size/strength and being a good finisher right at the rim. While Noel is much quicker, more active on both ends and has better hands, handle and BBIQ. I'm not sure who will be the better player, as Noel has not played yet.

Fair to say that prior to Noel's injury he was projected as more of an impact player than Jordan. But at one time Jordan was projected as a top 5 pick, and then dropped in peoples eyes during his freshman year, and has been relatively impressive, if one dimensional as a pro. I think scouts see Noel as someone who could develop into a much better offensive weapon than Jordan- but whether that happens remains to be seen.

This is nonsense. I didn't say Noel was going to be as good as Jordan was projected to be. I said he was a good comp. Jordan has far exceeded what he was projected to be.

and which is more teachable, height/length or shooting?

What numbers/percentages would you need to see from, say, Nerlens this year that would convince you Brown actually can teach these kids to improve their shooting?


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