Oh, and as for Okafor's offcourt antics, it doesn't really matter. He's a scrub on the floor, any more late night antics will simply turn what would've been an unremarkable 8-10 year career bouncing around the league into a 5-7 year career where people will fondly remember his days at Duke and say "If only..."
I actually see this as a positive. Not because I think this old head will do much to help us, but more because it shows a flicker of a commitment to winning by ownership. I don't think Colangelo will make the Sixers any more money (i.e. an investment or ROI), so the only benefit he brings from an owners perspective is a chance of making a better basketball team. His salary is just money out the window if one does not care about winning.
Trying to look for some positives in this dreadful season...
Could be a sign they're moving toward a sale. Adding a known name to the front office to hopefully show a commitment to winning. That, or Colangelo will immediately be put in charge of hiring scouts, since Hinkie has shown a propensity for making shitty draft picks. Who knows/cares?
The Collangelo news is really really interesting. I don't think Hinkie can feel BETTER about his job after this. I could see it being driven by the league.
If this works well, Collangelo helps rebuild any tension between us and agents/players (although I thought those concerns were overstated). I do think we could add a veteran free agent or adjust the roster a bit here. Hopefully that means something small like Amare Stoudemire as an end of the bench guy and not someone like Derrick Rose.
I just don't like Silver's role here. It's sounds like he gave Harris some sort of ultimatum about consequences down the road, and Collangelo is the compromise. I'm sure more info will come out, but I don't like the sound of it thus far.
Well at least the plan is in play for a solid draft next year unless Colangelo goes nuts and starts trading away assets at the deadline. Let things be for this last season, and then make the changes going into next season. I think that was the plan anyway.
I just wish Hinkie didn't miss on Porzingis. He had to get these high picks right, and the early returns are that he missed on him. Very disappointing considering how much time he personally scouted him.
JC's interviews reveal more power than initially expressed to the market. That shouldn't come as a huge surprise, at 76 I doubt he wants to take orders from anyone else. I would also add his son could be the GM of the future if his age doesn't allow him to fill that role.
I still hold hope that he will make calculated moves from here on out.
I think the best example would be acquiring Amare Stoudemire versus acquiring Derrick Rose. I think Amare could help Noel and I would have no issue with him sitting on the end of our bench and being a mentor. I think Rose would be step back and represents the type of player I would not want.
If the league stepped in and forced Harris to make this move, I'm glad they took some action but it really means absolutely nothing in the long term unless he's been inserted as the dictator of the organization. If he's there simply to mollify Silver and the other owners, then Hinkie/Harris will pay him his salary and lip service and just keep running the team into the ground while they collect the league's welfare checks and drive toward a sale. I wish the other owners would've taken a much bolder stance and changed the lottery system when they had the chance.
Nothing's going to stop this from happening until the owners are willing to do a couple of things:
(1) Say no when a dickwad hedge fund/PE with a history of being a vulture puts together an offer to buy a team.
(2) Reform the lottery AND the profit sharing system to the point where winning is incentivized, rather than losing.
(3) Buy the team out from under Harris and excommunicate Hinkie.
Clueless clown done got bumped from lead circus act to just a sideshow act. About damn time!
No more carte blanche for the Hinkster. Hallelujah!
The long overdue castration of Hinkie is a day, quite a wonderful one, that I never ever thought I'd have the luxury of experiencing in the middle of a season. Didn't think I'd ever see it at the end of one. But the middle? Welcome change, indeed.
Thank you(!!!), whomever the fuck is responsible.
I don't think a better day could happen for this franchise and the game of basketball until his ass finally gets fired.
Any thoughts on vets we could go after at the trade deadline.
I still think a package to acquire Bradley Beal could be interesting. I think his perceived value is diminishing (despite huge upside) - you just need certainty you can sign him.
Let's have a Hinkie memorial service. my favorite Hinkie moment was that press conference where he said that winning happens on a non-linear trajectory. His euphemism for "please overlook the fact that I still don't have shit to show you after 2 seasons/4 lotto picks"
what young free agents are available this summer? who would you like them to sign that wouldn't put them in the perennial 8 seed category? kyle lowry & eric gordon have been mentioned... you seriously want those guys? they do nothing to move the needle
At some point you have to flip the switch and try, as they did for Butler and Kawhi, regardless of the 8-seed potential. The hope is Embiid/Noel/Saric/Okafor and the 2016 picks yield a top-tier talent or two.
I'd take a shot at:
Unrestricted FAs - Harrison Barnes, Conley, Horford, Jennings, Chalmers, Courtney Lee
Restricted FAs - Beal, Drummond, Clarkson
Also guys like Eric Gordon, Batum, Rondo, DeRozan, and Terrence Ross available, but I'm not a big fan of any of them.
All long shots, but maybe you pick a guy like Barnes or Conley and go all-in for him, then hope for a miracle in 2017, with guys like Lowry/Gallo/Westbrook/Curry/Ibaka/Oladipo/CJ McCollum.
If that team is blatantly making a mockery of the sport and profiteering off the system, probably. There's a clear difference between what the Sixers have been doing and just being a bad team and it's not even subjective. If you start multiple seasons in a row with 3/4 of your roster spots taken up by d-league level players, at best, there should be consequences. There should be consequences in the league structure, I suppose, but the league was based on the naive notion that turning your fan base off and being a laughingstock was motivation enough to actually try to win.
Btw, Golden State went from 23-43 to pure dominance with the following draft picks over a 4-year period:
Harrison Barnes, #7,
Festus Ezeli, #30,
Draymond Green, #35,
Ognjen Kuzmic, #52,
Kevin Looney, #30.
and before you complain about Curry and Thompson being on the roster already, Curry was taken #7 after the team won 29 games the previous season, Thompson was taken #11 after winning 36 games the previous season.
The Warriors also made a slew of laughable trades and free agent signings over their years of dreaded mediocrity. Bringing in a bunch of losers like Iguodala and Bogut. What fools! If only they were as clever as Hinkie.
It's all about odds, though. I mean, if you give Hinkie enough time he's going to prove that even a guy who is completely out of his depth can't blow EVERY high draft pick he gets. Just because he's blown the first 8 doesn't mean he'll blow the next 10. And really, blowing those picks isn't a bad thing, because it means he'll have more picks to blow in the future, so technically every blown pick is worth more than a good pick, because it equals more picks to blow. It's pure genius, I'm sure this was all covered in the James Harden powerpoint he blew Josh Harris' socks off with. What a stud.
The nba should be changing the rules. That's the answer. The Sixers have exposed a flaw in the system, they're going about plugging that hole in a backhanded way, which is stupid. I'll agree with you there.
They hit on a generational talent at #7. But I agree, it should fuel the debate against tanking for #1 (they did tank for that Barnes pick).
Statistics say you need a large enough sample size to have reasonable outcomes, right? (correct me if I am wrong statheads). Leaving it up to probability might not be that great an idea when you get 1 shot each year.
You're better than resorting to straw men like this. You know that "let's splurge on random vets" was never the argument on here.
Hinkie's process, as put forth initially, was never the main problem either IMO (except for the length, I think 3+ years of tanking is ridiculous and demonstrates managerial incompetence). His process was just riddled with errors, poor decisions, crap player-development, and lackluster talent evaluation, which is why we're seeing regression on the court in year 3 as opposed to progress. Fans have the patience for a proper rebuilding process, they just don't have patience for poor execution.
My hope for JC is that he can usurp Hinkie's authority on the player evaluation front and repair some of the relationships and perceptions around the league by this summer. I would have just fired Hinkie to speed all that up, but hopefully this at least begins the process of gradually phasing him out.
I wouldn't mind a young vet with some upside like Beal if they can get him at a good price, but I disagree with stuff like the Stoudemire idea for example. I just don't see what that does aside from 'mentorship'. And even then I'm still not sure what he does. Plenty of NBA vets are just guys in their late 20's who do stupid stuff too, I agree with you there.
I agree. It was a HUGE mistake. Okafor might be get to a few all-star games, Porzingas looks like a future HOFer.
Drafting Embiid to me was the right decision. Smart, Randle, Gordon, and Exum are nothing special.
Trading MCW for LA's pick I agree with.
Trading Jrue for Noel and the #10 pick, i'm 50/50 on. It only looks good now because Jrue has had injury problems. I would take 2012 Jrue over Noel and I'm not crazy about Dario.
I like tanking, but I absolutely hate how this roster is comprised 10% of solid prospects and 90% crap.
The Embiid was the biggest screw up in Hinkie's tenure. It set the franchise back two years.
I know this sounds results oriented, but look at the facts that Hinkie knew before making the selection. Embiid had suffered a knee injury where he missed games, a stress fracture in his back and a bone break in his foot--all in less than a year prior to the draft. All of these injuries are especially problematic for centers. The chances of him being able to play were so low that he should not have been considered for the third pick.
I'm often asked, "then who should they have picked?" My answer is anyone who actually had a chance of seeing the floor. Or trade for future picks. Anything but what they did would have been better.
Embiid wasn't a f-up. here is why. try to find fault in this logic.
1) Wiggins is exactly as expected.
2) pre-injury, Embiid would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, i.e. he was projected to be at least as good as Wiggins is now. which is franchise cornerstone material
3) what are the chance Embiid comes back 100% like the doctors who do this for a living suggest? even if that number is only 20%, a 20% chance today for a franchise cornerstone is better than any pick in that draft and still has significant value right now.. .20% is conservative . btw, i see it as 60% or so .
4) on draft day, there was far less uncertainty than there is now. it was a no - brainer
AaronMckie4MVP:
I’ve enjoyed our discussions on this board, so here’s my best shot at finding fault with your logic.
1. I agree.
2. I definitely do NOT KNOW that Embiid would have been picked ahead of Wiggins. Minnesota never said either way, and Embiid had a stress fracture in his lower back. I believe that Wiggins would have been picked ahead of Embiid. We also do not know that a healthy Embiid would have been as good as Wiggins. There is no way of knowing either of these things. Also, projections about Embiid being as good as Wiggins had the omnipresent “if healthy” tag on it.
3. I define a generational talent as a perennial all star. I think that is a fair definition, agree? A 20% chance is very high, I believe. And 60% is ludicrous. My number is more like 1% that he will be a generational talent.
Obviously, there is no way of knowing which number, 1 or 60 is correct, since this so subjective, even for doctors. But, I’ll just do my best to make my case with the info I have:
Fact 1: Embiid had a knee injury in his one season in college where he missed time
Fact 2: Embiid had a stress fracture in his back later in the same year—very concerning for a center
Fact 3: Embiid broke his foot before the draft
Fact 4: All three facts above happened after only 28 games in college
Fact 5: Embiid, half-assed his recovery—this is not even disputed by the Sixers
Fact 6: Embiid re-broke the same bone in his foot
Fact 7: Embiid does not pay attention to diet or fitness recommendations by the Sixers—also not disputed by the Sixers, and even confirmed by Scott O’Neil
Fact 8: the NBA plays 3 times more games in one season than Embiid has played in his one year career at Kansas, a year where he had 3 injuries.
Sharone opinion/question #1: how is Embiid supposed to stay healthy in 82 games seasons when he had three injuries in 28 games—then re-broke his foot after zero NBA games?
Sharone opinion/question #2: how do we know Embiid will take his current and future rehabs seriously? Based on and recent history (fact 5 and 7), he probably won’t.
Sharone opinion/question #3: Why would a doctor who operated on him say anything except we anticipate a full recovery? The doctor who did his first surgery said he would fully recover and guess what? He didn’t. I prefer to look at other centers who have similar problems: Greg Oden, Yao Ming, Brendan Heywood and Zydrunas Illgauskas. Only Z had a long career after the foot injury, and he didn’t have knee or back injuries.
Sharone opinion/question #4: Even if he does come back and play well for short stints, how in the world will he possibly stay healthy enough to be a perennial all star, when he had four injuries in 28 career games? Remember that back and foot injuries are particularly concerning for centers. Even if he never misses another game, will he even be that good? Will he have a bad attitude and not reach his potential?
Based on my thought process above, I give him 1%, who was not worth the risk.
4. You’re saying it was a no-brainer because there was far less certainty. I don’t know how you can say that regarding a guy who at the time was on his third injury in a year, in a league moving toward elite wing players & guards. If someone would have done some good interviews on him, maybe they would have uncovered that he is an insubordinate knucklehead. I think it was a brainer, not a no-brainer.
on #2..
whether he would have been 1 or 2, no matter. the point is that a healthy Embiid was in the convo with Wiggins. you want to say #2 fine.. their risk adjusted present values assuming healthy were in the same ballpark .. agree? and given wiggins is blossoming as good as expected, at the time of the draft, this type of overall value was embiids expectation...
on #3
my 60% is based only on health... i am going back to draft-day projections to equate the value (because those haven't changed)
so now ,here we are today.. Embiid expectations have not changed... only his health percentage has. so put a number on that .... Even if its as low as 20%, we are still in the money as far as i am concerned. 20% chance at Wiggins-equivalent value or something close to that (again , go back to the logic we built in #2) is still a great value. my number is 60% , yours is 1% , so we are obviously on a different page...
your facts are all facts...although i am only concerned about the foot, not the other stuff. and i just think its going to be fine. i can't really argue with any additional facts ... i just see a freak athlete and believe he will heal . doctors dont always say they expect a full recovery. there are always caveats... they were never overly positive about oden. so i dont think their language is common,. i could not find similar language after the surgeries of the other players.
on #4... at the time, it was a no-brainer. There is obviously more information and downside now..
You're completely right, that was the biggest mistake. And it's not even results oriented, this and a dozen more of his missteps were being pointed out as they were happening over the past 3 years, so Mr. McKie MVP needs to check the tape before talking about 20/20 hindsight. Of course if Hinkie could've tanked right that season instead of holding on to half of the Doug Collins' remnants while they were costing him the worst record, they wouldn't have got stuck with the third pick in a two player draft in the first place.
It's gotta be a joke to say this was the only mistake he made. I can list about 10 (some big, some small) I've noticed and commented on over his tenure and probably 15+ if I'm allowed 20/20 hindsight. But it can be summed up pretty nicely & concisely like this: 3 years, 1 rotation player discovered in over 60 signings, 2 starters from 5 lottery picks, no stars, a worse product in year 3 than in year 1. Case closed.
I have absolutely 0 interest in how pro-Hinkie or Pro-zingis you are and therefore 0 interest in changing your mind. My move is to move right past your comments.
Anon -
didn't you give a point by point long retort to my post? or was i dreaming?... i could have sworn i saw it last night, and came on to respond and its no longer here...
Sixerfan -
Don Sterling didn't lose his ownership because he is a racist. he lost it because the other owners determined his comments would impact Clippers sales and by extension the broader valuation of NBA franchises. there is clearly a clause that in a such an event, the owners have legal remedy.
it sounds like the owners whispered something about this to Silver and Silver hinted such to Harris who took action so that down the line he can circumvent this type of claim if it comes up.
Every team that tanks has a reason for doing so. Either through incompetence, having a superstar that wants out, injury, or superstar that retires. I think the Sixers are the only team that tanked by trading away a 23 year old allstar PG.
I remember wanting the Sixers to offer Bynum a max deal because it would mean that it he either gets healthy or they can tank without getting pressured to sign an Al Jefferson.
I never thought that a management team would actually be so blatant in tanking. It sends a bad message about the NBA. There's no point in trying to field a good competitive team because the chances of winning a championship has to do with being able to acquire a select few players.
Major hat tip here as I do believe "where there is smoke there is fire". I have long defended against your conspiracy theory pieced in with the tanking.
I remember you writing something about your wife having experiences with these private equity guys by way of writing about them or something like that.
If this Forbes article ends up having any validity to it, this shit just keeps getting better and better (at least from my standpoint). I commented on here some time during that first year of this mess that these clusterfucks actually made me miss Ed Snider. Not even did I know how true that could end up being.
If all this speculation does come to fruition, when you really think about it, this whole damn charade is truly funny as all get-out.
Fan... after fan... after fan... were all hoodwinked! Straight duped to depths not even measurable!!
LOL!
It really is hilarious. These guys actually mastered and developed a cult-like following while the whole time they were just turning the knife in their minions backs. (if this hopeful sale by Harris and/or firing of Hinkie goes through)
I'm just thankful I never liked any of it from the start. Never once fell for it. If I had been an advocate of what they were doing, or a believer, I would be one mad and pissed off motherfucker right about now.
But thankfully I can seriously laugh and say "whew(!), this shit might finally be over with" since I was a proponent from jump.
Let's say the conspiracy theory was always right and every basketball decision was made to improve the team's sales value. Isn't this good news for the anti-Hinkie's at this point? The Sixers have some high-potential picks, a couple tradeable guys, and the owner you hate may sell the team. I'm glad the Comcast regime is gone. If Colangelo starts building a team now and a new owner comes in, who by buying high likely actually wants the team, great.
So...was there ever *really* a "Process" then? Or was it just about gutting a team from like some evil overlord billionaire? Jeez I'm so confused. Anyhoo...I might go to the game tonite. I gotta help my brother with the Xmas tree, and he's right down the street from Barclays, more or less. I don't even know what to think. Maybe I'll try to talk to Billy King. He'll tell me what to do.
So thinking about this a bit more... I have a tough time feeling any bit of "negativity" about the Colangelo hire.
What if we make trades for "proven players".
We have Kings pick swaps.
We have 4 first round picks this season (or some that roll over)
We have a theoretical lotto ticket in Embid.
We have a European player coming over next year.(Please Saric come over next year).
I guess I don't see how you can screw it up that much if you make an effort to improve here.
I'm hoping this is a new day.
Harris fucks off to Britain with his London Jaguars, Hinkie accepts a senior management position at Target, and Philadelphia basketball enters a new renaissance.
"Both the Sixers and the Lakers are on a year delay," Hinkie says. "We talk about that a lot. We've planted a lot of seeds. It's fair to say the harvest hasn't come in."
Oh really Sam? Is it truly "fair" though? Like really really fair...?
Planted a lot? Really? No, you didn't actually plant a lot Sam,... you really just spun the revolver and hoped it ended up aligned, that shot in the dark, resulting in "planted" really just turning into buried them slightly beneath the surface. Just as likely to be dug up as likely to discovered.
And you've got to be shitting me...
the harvest hasn't come in, huh?...
...Ya don't fucking say do ya...?
Quite big of your minute self to finally fucking admit that.
I like your country boy mantra invoking the harvest...quite clever heh. But you've always been a circular wordsmith.
Heh. I think I left out a "better" in a previous comment above.
This gets better and better............... aaannnnddd better...
So now we're not even allowing the head coach, a head coach who just received a two year contract extension not even twelve hours earlier, to select his own staff? We're force-feeding him assistants? From the Chairman of Basketball Operations/Advisor to Management level?
Is it safe to say/assume that we are now the first organization to have two de facto GM's and head coaches?
Potentially bringing a guy on staff who abhors traditional post-up players just 6 months removed from drafting a traditional post-up player with the 3rd pick in the draft? A traditional post-up player that we've shifted our whole offensive philosophy toward the first 25 games?
As Lombardi said, "What the hell is going on around here..."!
This is so hilarious. Whenever new management is brought in they do two things: (1) reassure the people with "power" that nothing is going to change (2) bring in their own people and push the people in power out. Hinkie has been publicly de-nutted.
As an avid reader of this blog and its' many contributors, I'm not sure what to make of how there's boatloads of comments when the general manager of the franchise pulls off a trade for Nik Stauskas. Rejoicing galore. Strange sets in when it's stagnant and silent on here when something much more intriguing is taking place. The potential dynamics are conveniently left alone for debate. Why is that?
I hear you. I have been trying to sprinkle in some thoughts on the announcements, but they have been largely spread. And largely spread across the various comments on the "non-basketball" dynamics.
Overall, I see this week's events as an overall positive for the organization and a positive for 76er fans.
1. I expect Colangelo to fix any negative perception caused by Hinkie in regards to agents and players. I do not think the agent issue was meaningful, but regardless, I think this addresses it in one full swoop.
2. It puts us back into any trade conversations we may not have had. Colangelo has a long history of making deals. If teams really avoided making deals with Hinkie - I think that is largely over.
3. I think D'Antoni is well positioned as an assistant to Brown near term. I can see potential power struggles down the line but we get so many benefits before that comes into play.
4. I expect more focus on the makeup of the team today which I did have issues wtih. I do believe development can be affected by not having a competent point guard.
I have no issue making steps towards progress today (not even waiting until the offseason). I think we could make some moves to help that. I am looking at the point guards in the league and i KNOW Brett Brown wants a real point guard to run this team. Marshall and McConnell may fill that void for the remainder of the season - but I could see JC/Brown/MDA looking to acquire someone with a better chance of being the long term answer.
I don't think Okafor is neccesarily out of the plan. He is not incapable of taking a man off the dribble, or hitting a 15 footer. He needs to adjust his fitness, but I am not jumping to conclusions.
If the team can learn to finish some games - we will be an average bad team - with a bunch of intriguing and (hopefully) improving players. That is what I wanted this season - a competitive team. They have been the worst kind of competitive for the last 3 weeks or so (ignoring the Spurs game) - in which they lose down the stretch.
If I had to keep players right now, it would be:
McConnell
Marshall
Covington
Noel
Okafor
Holmes
Grant
I would be fine dropping
Stauskus to D League
Cutting or getting nothing in a trade for:
Hollis Thompson
Wroten
Canaan
Sampson
I would love to trade for Brandon Knight and run him with McConnell, Marshall or solo at the PG.
I would be fine dealing Heat and Thunder picks in a trade that would add a solid NBA player.
@brianseltzer As of now, Brett Brown said no restriction on Tony Wroten. He'll start. Likely no restriction for Kendall Marshall on Wednesday in Atlanta.
I really support moving Stauskus down to the D League to find his stroke. I believe he is an NBA player but he has to get his one elite skill back to being elite.
We do not have the defensive identity this year. I think Nerlens absence is a piece of it, but we do not seem to generate the same fast break opportunities as in the past.
I would not mind some roster shakeup or, at the very least, a smaller rotation.
what would the D-league do for him? We already know he can shoot against lesser competition. And if the issue is confidence (it isn't), a D-League stint would just destroy whatever of it is left.
I've just been ignoring Stauskas. so far he's more or less met my expectations. Any disappointment with him was set up by the "Process" narrative as usual. I remember Hinkie being lionized once again for fleecing Sacto in that deal, except Stauskas was being salary dumped for a reason. I posted his rookie shot charts after the trade, and his contested jump shot off the catch went in something like, less than 10% of the time.
He could get good looks in college against zones and he's money shooting in his driveway on YouTube but NBA level defense is just too much for him. There've been plenty of good college shooters who failed to translate, I think he's just the latest one.
fact of the day:
even with the 2nd worst record, the Lakers still have a 45% chance of being outside the top 3.
ive noticed that Kris Dunn's stock has steadily climbing... projected consensus top 5 now, prototypical PG with potential for elite defense. smells like a filthy rich -man's eric Snow. also there are a few PG prospects in mid-late first round...
I'm partial to Jamaal Murray. Point guards who steadily improve in college give me some caution. I'm honestly not in love with anyone in this years class.
I liked Murray at first also, but his glaring weaknesses have been exposed and likely won't have much chance at being a complete NBA player. his stock has dropped swiftly...
"Point guards who steadily improve in college give me some caution" lol. what does this even mean ? to be honest , i didnt think Kris Dunn was that sexy at first, but now i realize he is the real deal. the guy is the clear best player on the court every time he steps on it. he has nothing around him and yet Povidence is still a top competitive team . Did you see him take over and beat Arizona? and he was awesome against Mich St... the reason i spoke out against Deangelo Russell and Evan Turner was because i never saw them dominate anything....[yes this includes ETs buzzer beater to win the Big 10].. if you can't dominate in NCAA you have zero chance of being a star in the NBA [the converse is not necessarily true].
I fail to see the how Miami would be in better position with a declining 30 yr old Dwight Howard. And at the expense of Whiteside and Winslow? If they can't offer a max deal to Whiteside because of Wade's cap number, Wade would be the one to go if it was my call. That would be easy.
I think the D league would benefit him as well. Why not? His shot is an NBA shot. He's has the athleticism to drive,dish, and create for others. His D is horrendous, but he can improve there.
Give him a chance to play a level down and see what happens. We traded nothing away so anything he produces is a bonus.
"His shot is an NBA shot." what does that mean? He has good form? I define an NBA shot as one that falls in NBA games. Stauskas has a .441 eFG. For reference, Noel's is .442. Imagine if Noel suddenly played 0 defense and his only express purpose in the league was to shoot. That's basically Stauskas right now.
"He's has the athleticism to drive,dish, and create for others."
I've seen no evidence of that. It's the same as the nonsense about playing Stauskas at PG. based on what exactly?
"His D is horrendous, but he can improve there."
He can improve his NBA D by playing somewhere other than the NBA? His "O" is also horrendous, maybe he'll improve that too. He and Rodney Carney can make each other better.
"Give him a chance to play a level down and see what happens."
His numbers will go up.
Christian Wood will also look like prime Garnett down there. At least in Wood's case, you can actually call it a "chance" since he's raw and wasn't getting any playing time. For Stauskas, it'd be anything but.
The notion that Staus is a good shooter is based on a 390 attempt sample of NCAA 3s. He has now attempted 274 NBA 3s and has made just 30%. Statistically, a player's rookie season is much much more reliable than any and all data that precedes it collectively. The players most often able to buck their early trends are toolsy teenagers with 'plus' athletic ability and low usage kids with multi-dimensional games. That's basically who makes up the outlier group in every predictive statistical model you look at.
So, while it's not wise to say that Bruno Caboclo is a scrub at this point, you can say with enough certainty that Stauskas is. He does nothing else effectively to be on the court except shoot. People want to get rid of Hollis because of that exact reason, except Hollis is actually good at his one role, and over a much larger sample (40% 3pt shooter, over twice as many minutes as Stauskas).
Yes. I stand corrected. Trading nothing(cap space) for the option to swap picks with a dysfunctional SAC team in '16,'17, PLUS a future first rd pk, PLUS Stauskas, was an awful move. Made zero sense.
It depends on the week for me. Honestly, I'd rather give these guys multiple seasons to play next to each other than say "it won't work" this early. Yes, they definitely don't work right now but at this stage both are just trying to find their place in the league. I'd say Noel has a clearer path to being a center on a top tier team (defensive anchor and offensive liability) - but Okafor is too gifted offensively to toss away.
I think addressing the backcourt situation is the obvious low hanging fruit here. Get some NBA caliber players to eat up regular minutes and cut down some of the upside guys. I'm already talking myself into a flyer on Brandon Jennings because of how bad it's been. Convincing myself he can leave his ego at the door and be a real point guard.
If it was a gun to my head, I'd trade Noel first. I think he actually might have greater value (very debateable), but I also think Okafor holds more value as an unknown. While everyone mimics the Warriors, people should be thinking about how to be different than the Warriors. I'm not the only one that thinks it sits in the post and making teams pay for going small - while forcing them into the paint on defense. Clearly Okafor is a liability on defense today, but I view it as largely an instinct problem which can be answered.
I think Okafor holds more value at this point based on his upside and more left on his rookie contract. I think he has the personality to improve on his weaknesses and there is a lot more unknown with him given Noel's been around a few years.
But, I wouldn't trade either yet. Noel's a good player and more valuable on the court right now. I'd like to see what they can do with a real roster that includes at least one point guard and two shooters.
Okafor. I don't have much to back this up, but I feel like Okafor's liabilities on defense are worse than Nerlens liabilities on offense. I also hope that Okafor's PPG stats will help us get a better trade than Nerlens.
What are the thoughts on Harrison Barnes? As the resident poster who favors various free agents, I have taken an interest in HB this coming summer. A young, wing with shooting ability and experience playing in a good system.
I think he could pair interestingly well with whatever team we may roll out next year. I am personally in favor of keeping both Noel and Okafor, but playing them less together.
Barnes - Grant - Okafor would provide an interesting lineup where Barnes could spend less energy on defense against big 4's.
Covington - Barnes - Noel would be a fun small ball lineup which supported uptempo pace.
Obviously he needs competent guards like anyone else - but I think he could be an interesting second option supporting one of our big men. it begs the question where Saric might fit in, but I am past worrying about anything like that and focused on getting some real talent.
It's incredible how bad this team is. Just checked the score and the 11-18 Bucks are up 20 in the 3rd. The Antetokounmpo/Parker/Middleton trio has combined for 49 points and have missed just one shot in 23 attempts among the three of them.
Why would you extend the head coach in the midst of a season like this? Where is the reasoning in committing to anything long term with this team?
@SpearsNBAYahoo Pelicans acquired second round picks from the Sixers in 2016 and 2017, a source told Yahoo Sports. Tony Wroten was offered with no interest.
Sixers have officially "lost" a trade. I know many here argue others were lost in the past 2 years, but it was at least debateable. We dealt two seemingly "good" 2nd round picks for a guy expiring at the end of the year (that also could have been claimed for nothing).
Cutting Wroten is fine by me. Hopefully we can clear out some others - honestly, they can take their pick of who they do or don't like. I would prefer Thompson and Canaan go, but I won't be butthurt if McConnell/Sampson/etc, are the guys.
I really hope Ish rejuvinates Nerlens. He can actually throw a lob which is an underrated skill (and MCW could never do it).
I am curious if we go after someone like Morris (PHX).
if ish makes okafor and noel better im fine with trading 2 2nds( albeit good ones) for him
something else to keep in mind, you have saric and hopefully 4 1st rounders coming over next year so those 2nd rounders probably woudnt be playing as much as the other 2nd rounders have the last couple of years
Fact is Ish was available to simply sign. I'm no huge Ish fan, but he played well last year, and he was there for the taking. Trading for him now is curious. He'll promote better basketball, so I'm OK with that, but what a waste to give away two second round picks for a guy you could have just signed.
sorry i assumed that you think every move hinkie makes is ordered by Colangelo
the only time noel has been a consistent plus on offense is when ish was the pg, hinkie misjudged a couple things and so did ish(he wanted a guaranteed deal)
i think hes trying to fix his mistake and the cost isnt outrageous and if the guy whose offense you are probably going to run eventually likes him thats even better
I think Brown may have had more to do with this than media is giving credit for.
Brett was never too complimentary of a Wroten, especially as a point guard. I think much like the coaching system, JC may have asked "what do you want?" And when he said "D'Antoni" he got it done and if he said Ish he got it done as well. Now id imagine Hinkie was involved here somehow, but this is not the way he would draw up a deal.
Overall, it's fine by me. I don't mind adding pieces at this point. At 1-29 we will have a tough time not finishing awful. I understand the incentive to be worse than the Lakers but I wouldn't hesitate to add a good player/decent contract that needs a change of scenery.
The Sixers gave up the equivalent of 2 late 1st round picks (that doesn't come with a guaranteed salary) for a guy that was on the waiver wire a few months ago.
The Sixers 2nd round picks have been pretty solid- KJ McDaniels, Jerami Grant, and Richuan Holmes. But last year they did give up the 35th pick overall in the draft in exchange for a 2018 2nd round pick.
I don't really care, if Ish Smith is the guy that can avoid the Sixers getting the worst record of all time, then so be it.
What they should have done was spend money on Corey Joseph or Jeremy Lin.
I like Okafor but watching Porzingis has made me really upset. We passed up on a guy who is 7'3, can defend the paint, hit 3's and run the down the floor with good speed. Even if he doesn't have the ability to create his own shot like Jahlil, I'd much rather prefer the athletic big who could shoot well and block shots.
Some people are going to say that Kristaps was too much of a risk, but Hinkie has had scouts go out to see him and have seen him in private workouts. Taking those risks is what separates the good GMs from the average ones.
I could get behind almost everything that Hinkie had done prior to the draft. Trading Jrue, drafting Nerlens, drafting Embiid, and trading MCW were all controversial but to me they were the right decisions.
Drafting Jahlil over Kristaps is a colossal fuck up. I don't even think you can build a good team around someone with Jahlil's skill set.
That's obvious now, but if Hinkie had taken Porzingis and he struggled here with a shit roster devoid of point guards, everyone would say he was afraid to taken a proven talent like Jah who puts up numbers. Definite miss, but that's what happens in the draft.
Hinkie gets paid a 7-figure salary to make those decisions and public opinion shouldn't factor into it. This is the guy that traded for Kerilenko knowing he wouldn't play because of his sick wife in order to save his boss $3 million.
His entire philosophy is built around the draft and he markets himself as a numbers/video guy. He fucked up.
Great win. Funny watching Stauskas drive by TJ Warren like he was standing still. I have not seen too much of Warren, but what I have seen hasn't been that impressive.
I still think the Sixers end up with a better record than the Lakers.
Stauskus can actually create off the dribble. So as long as his shot is falling (like last night), he should be able to get into the lane just from guys closing out on him. Unlike Hollis or Covington, he can actually dish off the dribble as well.
I am excited to see Ish, Grant and Okafor play together as well. Grant had a few plays where he caught the ball off the pick and roll, got to the hoop, but Noel's stone hands resulted in turnovers. Not that they were great passes, but I think if its Okafor he converts at least one of those. It shows recognition of defense rather than JG's usuall move of trying to slam it down over everything and anything.
I would be happy if we finish the year with a few things:
1. Okafor showing competence on defense and the ability to play in a higher tempo offense.
2. Noel playing like he did last night. (low FGA, high FG%, high REB)
3. Stauskus becoming our "shooter". He can come off the bench, but show the ability to be a rotation piece. If he plays like last night, we are in good shape.
4. Grant defining his role as stretch 4 and a faster system. If he just continues to craft his game like he has (meaning be mediocre on offense), I am okay for that in his 2nd year.
5. Covington get the shot back. He has REALLY struggled recently.
6. Keep Ish Smith as a starter into next year and either sign or draft a PG for the future. I am okay if Smith is our starter for the next season or 2. He can do what we need (without being a great stretcher of the floor). Not too many point guards can stretch the floor like we would hope so lets just stick with this for the timebeing.
I agree on most everything you say, especially with Stauskas. You can see glimpses of his ability in a game like last night, and it's been frustrating to see his play to date this year. He just hasn't had any confidence. But he absolutely has the ability handle, drive and dish (when making shots). Prior to Ish getting here, I would have been in favor of letting him handle the ball for last possessions of quarters. Why not....neither PGs had the ability to create anything in closing seconds of quarters. But I also assumed (incorrectly) that Stauskas' play was going to improve gradually as he got more comfortable.
I have a feeling that Ish is going to make a lot of guys better just by playing the position with a minimum level of competence. He knows how to run a team.
And I think Marshall may be able to build on that (making guys better) as he gets back into the game.
Stauskus noted how his game picked up when the Kings brought Andre Miller on board last year. He would get guys shots where they wanted to get them. I know Smith can play well with big men, but hopefully that translates to the perimeter guys as well (it seemingly did last night). Marshall definitely seems to have some Andre Miller in him as well. I would even keep TJ as he has similar traits.
I have a suspicion that MDA likes Jakarr. He gave him an awkwardly loud/noticeable hug after that last minute defensive stop with Grant the other night.
The easy answer is you play them each 30 minutes. 24 alone at the 5 and overlap 6 minutes. You build their values by playing them mostly separate but also experiment and see if they can find a way to work together.
The "great" answer is you develop a system where they can both be on the floor - leveraging Okafor on post offense. And Nerlens under the hoop on defense.
Ultimately, I think you need to test the limits of the game to ever be elite. Gasol and Randolph worked despite similar defensive issues. Favors and Gobert struggled for a long time but seem to have figured it out. I am not confident that Nerlens and Okafor ever will.... but given how young they are, I am willing to spend some time finding out.
Fair points. Z-Bo can step out though. And Gasol is an elite passer in addition to DPOY. I'm trying to search for Gobert and Favors' ORtgs and DRtgs and their on/off numbers to see how they do together vs. one at a time, but my uninformed guess is that you can pretty much have a really good defense with Gobert as the anchor no matter who you pair him with, and an elite one when you pair him with a plus athlete and defender like Favors. So I'm not sure you can look at those frontcourts and draw a parallel with Noel and Okafor, I think our situation is a bit murkier.
My concern is that Okafor may be something like a big man version of MCW. Put him on the floor on a bad team and force feed him possessions and he'll put up numbers. But whether his skills can be conducive to long-term winning basketball remains a big question. But your take makes sense to me too, so I don't know.
And then the drawback to the "great" answer is that they'd be investing years and lots of $$ waiting for a radical transformation of their two best players' games which may never come while they ruin each others' trade values. I wouldn't trade either one just yet, since obviously their values are at all time lows right now, but I wouldn't rule out a move at the deadline or at the draft.
Brett's go-to play idea in the waning moments last night was an iso jumpshot for Scrubkus. How many wins does this team have with Brad Stevens on the bench instead of Brown? I bet it's 4 or 5.
For this team? I'd probably stick with Okafor. More scoring, less rebounding, probably less defense even, but he has a more intriguing age/skill set combination than Vucevic at this point. It may be easier to build with Vuc as part of your core though.
I think it'd be a challenge to contend with either of them, but I agree with you that Okafor isn't a bust and probably has a couple of All Star appearancences in him as long as he remains the focal point of a team.
I am with you, Okafor over Vuce. And it builds on the discussion we had above. Okafor is not a natural fit in the NBA right now., but his offensive ability is so unique at a young age.
I think my main point above was that, yes, the natural choice would be to trade Noel/Okafor for a wing. But if you believe they each have an elite skillset (Okafor on offense, Noel on defense) at such a young age, developing a system around them is worth an extended project. Think how long it took Randolph to fit and succeed in the NBA - part attitude but also it took Gasol's unique skill set to build with. I don't think its crazy to say these guys could get to their type level in 3 years (I understand we don't neccesarrily want to wait).
I am very curious to see what Okafor looks like with Ish.
FWIW, I am also 100% fine giving Ish a 3-4 year deal. What is the main pushback on him? Defense? Outside shooting? Does he remind anyone else a bit of Tony Parker?
I'd probably keep Okafor over Vuce, but that has more to do with trade value than being a fan of his game. There are no net positive centers in the league with his profile (skilled iso scorer, meh rebounder, defensive turnstile). I'm worried all of the major positives about his game ultimately amount to a gimmick. Like, if the goal is to have a rare, offensively skilled big man with an anachronistic skill set then he's your guy, but if the goal is sustainable winning, then it's better to look elsewhere. He sports a 27.4 usage rate and combines it with a ball stopping style, inefficiency, and a bad assist to turnover ratio. And his defense looks like this:
Then there are the character concerns, and I'm not even talking about his off-the-court adventures. This may just be recency bias talking, since every time I turn on the game all I see is crap, but I think he's lazy. How does a big man with such nimble footwork move so poorly on the defensive end and fail to challenge shots at the rim with his 7'5" or whatever wingspan? Why can't a player with his mastodon build rebound and set better screens than Spencer Hawes if not for lack of effort. I think he's more determined to see himself emerge as a 25ppg guy in the league than anything else. He just seems to have a selfish game, but I don't wanna go too deep with my eye-test psychology here lol.
I'd start shopping him. Jimmy Butler may be on the block in Chicago sometime soon and if Chicago wants to blow it up and start a rebuild with a Mirotic/Okafor frontcourt, maybe Okafor + Lakers pick + Miami pick gets it done. He's from Chicago and that pairing works on offense.
Ish reminds me of Tony Parker the same way that Okafor reminds me of Duncan. If you adjust for the Sixers-suck factor and squint real hard, you can kind of see it.
Coach addressed Jakarr a couple weeks ago, saying that he wanted more defense. Basically, he took Stauskas' minutes.
Regarding Canaan, Brown also kind of addressed this question, saying he needed the shooting to space the floor. Canaan sucks, but he can shoot. Canaan at the point guard is an unmitigated disaster, but at the two, he is serviceable. (Please note, when I say serviceable, I am using that term relative to the lowest of low bars set by a team that is 3-33.)
So the question for me then, is why is Covington in the doghouse? Covington should be getting more minutes than Canaan and Jakarr. Can't he also play two?
Loved, LOVED this game tonight! First game of the year where things really started coming together. Noel continued his recent ascension back to the path of a future star. Okafor, while not playing as many minutes, beat up on KAT yet again when the opportunity presented itself. Stauskas played another good game, hitting 3s, driving to the hoop, and dishing. Ish was Ish (ho hum), Holmes was a fucking MONSTER.
Yeah Mitch is really bad. Last time I looked on the Wolves SBN forum, they were calling for his head. I imagine it's even worse now.
As little respect as I have for the Sixers brass, I gotta admit I'm glad they're not the TWolves ownership/management. That franchise is run like a fucking country club.
During his third of his four seasons with the Sixers, while on a West Coast trip, Brand had a small problem with a writer who was covering the team. The issue was an apparent rift between Brand and a teammate on the court. Brand settled the issue with the young teammate in private, the way a respected veteran can. He also politely took the reporter aside and explained the way things went down with the teammate. Not for publishing sake, but just to let it be known that all was well and there was no need to keep reporting on what he, and the teammate, considered a dead issue.
Hopefully things pick up again soon. For all the talk about how this process is more interesting than the mediocrity era, all the numbers (attendance, ratings, number of comments) don't seem to bear that out.
I didn't get to watch the 2nd half last night. Shabazz put up points on good shooting - and yet was a -20 +/- ....is that his future? Inefficient scorer?
I remember when I was hoping we would draft him to pair with Jrue and give Bynum another shot to get healthy. HA!
Seems like Wolves and Philly could be good trade partners down the line. Jerami Grant seems like a nice fit between Towns and Wiggins.
The 10 day contract period starts soon I think. Anybody follow the d-league and have suggestions?
Erick Green from Reno is scoring 27/game on .664TS% this season and is a decent passer. And then Kilpatrick from the 87ers is 45% from 3 on 7.4 attempts per game. They might still be young enough and demonstrated enough improvement to end the Jakarr experiment.
Jimmer is available too, but having him and Canaan at the same time would be a little much.
david b. thorpe @coachthorpe 1h1 hour ago
Seeing Ben Simmons for the first time today. Let me say this-if he ended up in Philly next year they make the playoffs that spring.
Okafor looked much better to me - all while playing next to Noel.
The lack of wings is really weighing on lineups. Meanwhile I like our rotation of bigs with Okafor Noel Grant Landry and Holmes. I'd argue there is not enough minutes when comparing to the lack of wings.
I'd rather play Covington into shape (or have him sit out a few games). But also think we should consider consolidating our size into something of a wing.
Holmes or Grant could have value for an equally questionably but high upside wing player.
He'd be stupid to take it. I never really looked at him as a great coach, just a great recruiter. And there'd be no place better suited than Brooklyn for him to get exposed.
Prokhorov just needs to calm down and stop trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Just hire a low-key smart basketball person, step back, and let the healing process begin.
His oligarch mentality isn't going to work in the NBA.
The recent commentary from JC is encouraging to me. It suggests that there is some alignment of value. I am sure the strategic timeline is still different for a 76 year old man versus a 38 year old, but it won't be a move just for the sake of a move.
It looks increasingly likely that the frontcourt logjam will be the currency to get a deal done. I will assume Embid is out of the picture for these purposes.
Noel
Okafor
Holmes
Grant
Saric
I have a very tough time trading away a Noel or Okafor at this age. That said, I don't think you can expect to get anything back for the others. Personally, I lean towards trading Noel as I think you can find someone with 80% of his defensive ability easier than 80% of Okafor's offensive ability. Part of this is my view that Okafor's offense can become something much much big than a post man.
Here were JC's comments
“The reality is, and I’ve come to understand this, that Sam has really done a great job of accumulating assets,” Colangelo said. “If you look at the trades, you look at the draft picks that have been accumulated, it’s all there in place. Now it’s a matter of when do you pull the trigger on using all those assets, or any of the assets?”
"Part of this is my view that Okafor's offense can become something much much big than a post man."
I think that ^ is the key actually, and they should look to capitalize on that sentiment while it lingers around the league. Okafor has the highest trade value of anyone on that list, and also has the most cumbersome set of drawbacks which will have to be worked around if they choose to keep him. Other than Ibaka and maybe Draymond Green, who can you ideally pair him with? It's a pretty small list of candidates and none of them are on the roster.
It's reminiscent of the MCW situation in the sense that, yes, you can tailor a very specific sort of lineup around him to make it work, but why SHOULD you do that when your roster is essentially still on square one in terms of identity and playing style? Keeping Okafor limits their options going forward and forces them to pay close attention to fit. Meanwhile, trading him, allows for a clean slate approach to this pivotal draft and off-season that's coming up
This summer is the defining, make-or-break point. If Hinkie is still going into next season without a semblance of a long-term core in place, he should be arrested.
I hear you. And not to beat the dead horse, but that is where our philosophies will differ. I think MCW was a much much different case. His best traits were pretty easily matched by others around the league. The easiest way to build a team is find a bunch of good defenders that can guard multiple positions and hope they become good offensive players. Nerlens Noel, Jerami Grant, Jakarr Sampson are all samples of this strategy.
I think Okafor's offensive talents are massively underrated. He has more touch around the rim than anyone I have seen (and I honestly mean that at this point). He has a better 15 footer than the majority of big guys I know. He has the ability to take guys off the dribble. He has post moves that get him looks. He has shown the ability to pass out of double teams.
His offensive weaknesses - athleticism can result in blocked shots. Passing is inconsistent. Does not get into position or makes cuts enough to get him looks. Not getting to the line as much as he could.
In my opinion - you give this offensive game a go. His rim protection is obviously poor versus Noel but he does not look completely hopeless - especially for a guy that has been taught to stay out of foul trouble.
Why not pair a Robert Covington at the 4 in offensive focused lineups and Jerami Grant (better version but that defense first type) in defensive lineups.
I know its more risk than just building a traditional team - but I think his offensive ability can massively outweigh his defensive weakness. And while Center is significantly more important than what Curry gives up at point guard or Harden at shooting guard - it cna work.
I'm not hating on Okafor for his offense at all..he's been hyped as a standout scorer on every level he's played, and has been able to deliver pretty much as advertised so far. Which is also why I'd disagree that he's underrated currently. Like I said, I think he holds the most trade value of anyone on the roster, so I actually meant 'trade Okafor' as a compliment to him ;) (Hinkie forfeits entire seasons to get these guys, so at least one of them better be good enough to make decent trade bait)
Jah has good size and coordination. Plus he's already polished enough to be able to get his own shot whether posted or facing up. Most centers his age can't do much besides dunk, so he's definitely ahead of the development curve (or at least from what I can tell. i've only seen a few games)
All that said, his weak-ass defense is bound to kill you. Look at Milwakee this year. They brought everyone back but added Monroe and just like that, their biggest team strength becomes a huge weakness if Henson isn't on the floor. Last season they only had Zaza Pachulia (who's a smart positional defender and tries hard but doesn't block shots) and that was good enough for #2 defense. This year, it's Monroe flanked by the same 3 wings and MCW, in the same scheme, and Monroe is enough to drop their D to last, or nearly last, for most of the year.
Kanter is another example. Good scoring and rebounding big whose defense makes him virtually unplayable. He was bad enough on defense to knock a team like OKC out of playoff contention, despite averaging 20pts/12boards on 57% shooting and having Ibaka help cover for him. The team went from 10th to 29th in DRtg after trading for Kanter and his league-worst DRPM (-3.75).
This year's league worst RPM (-5.85) is of course Okafor, by a mile. It makes Kanter look like Mutombo in comparison.
"I think his offensive ability can massively outweigh his defensive weakness...it can work".
Maybe. I kinda doubt it though. at least if contention is still the goal here. Even without any +/- stats, it's clear how much worse the defense and the team has been this year with Okafor replacing Noel in the middle. He'll improve, but right now he can't score, rebound, or even defend as well as Enes Kanter.. It's way easier to just trade him for another player if you can get reasonable value. which I think they still can, because his age/skill combo was worth a top 5 pick just a few months ago.
There's gotta be a young guard or wing that'll be available in a trade that would fill a bigger need (somehow there's a log jam at the 5 spot, meanwhile, nothing is in place anywhere else) so if they can just opt out of the hassle of building around Okafor's defense, they probably should. Noel and Holmes seem to work better than Noel and Okafor anyhow. just my thoughts on the subject.
I understand what you are saying and I think it is a very close call. At this point, his numbers look awful but have seen a HUGE improvement since Smith arrived.
If you have a minute to catch a first quarter, I would recommend checking out Okafor's first 6 minutes or so. I think it has been a trend all season, but without a doubt lately, he dominates offensively. There could be a lot of reasons for his falloff deeper into the game (conditioning, matchup changes, etc.) but its efficient and has really been opening things up for everyone else.
He also had a pick and pop from the three point line the other night (foot on the line) which looked very very smooth. That is the type of "offense overshadowing defensive weakness) I would be referencing. Not what we know Okafor now - which is, as you mentioned, as advertised. But I think there is at least a chance he can expand the face up game to beyond the three point line. Which naturally opens him up to get positioning down low on cuts and movement if defenders honor him out there. Not to mention he has shown ability to take his defender off the dribble. The likelihood that this could all come together (3point shot, face up game, and passing ability) is maybe a 20% chance? Maybe. But is that 20% chance of having someone truly special on offense worth it. I think you can confidently say "no" and I can confidently say "yes" and its just a matter of mindset.
I think you are probably right about Okafor's trade value being higher than anyone else - although, I think Noel may have more value to a contender that Okafor. I haven't thought through what that would mean for return value - but Noel seems easier to slot next to an offensively proven team to simply act as a defensive anchor and catch lobs. I.e. if Hassan Whiteside didn't exist, something like Noel for Justice Winslow may work for both teams.
One of my issues with Hinkie is that he initiated the tank without consideration to PR and made the Sixers into a national joke.
The Sixers are grouped in with the Lions and the Clippers. Those teams have decades of losing seasons and incompetency.
My guess is that Hinkie wanted to draft Porzingis but was threatened by his camp that he would stay in Europe had the Sixers drafted him. His success coupled Jahlil's legal problems was a huge wake-up call to Harris and the Sixers' management.
I don't think Jahlil has great trade value around the league. Greg Monroe didn't even get substantial offers around the league when he was a RFA.
Jahlil's not good defender, somewhat limited athletically, and can't shoot.
Can you please get over Hinkie already? Isn't is about that time yet?
Also, the only person grouping the Sixers with the Lions/Clippers is you.
And yes, Porzingis would have been the better fit, but to simply dismiss Okafor's game, saying he doesn't have great trade value, is moronic. Have you watched this kid play at all?? He is 20 years old (!!!) with the offensive game of a polished and skilled veteran. He's played one half of a single NBA season, and you've already panned his career. Nice work.
I've always been supportive of Hinkie, but the man has his faults. This team didn't have a PG, their best wing player is Hollis Thompson, and they didn't have any veteran leadership on this team. All he does is acquire 2nd round picks in exchange for bad contracts and sign d-league level players to 10-day contracts.
"Also, the only person grouping the Sixers with the Lions/Clippers is you."
No, it's not just me. The Sixers are a joke on the national level:
And Porzingis isn't just a better fit, he's a generational talent. Hinkie really dropped the ball on this one last summer. I don't know what to make of Hinkie as a talent evaluator after that selection.
Jahlil might end up being a good player but he will always be limited due to his lack of athleticism and explosiveness.
I live very close to MSG and can't find anything remotely reasonable ticketwise for today's game. Consider that I comment on a 76ers message board, and buy leaguepass to watch the 76ers so my "reasonable" is probably 25% above anyone else.
As great as the Garden can be - its obnoxious what those prices are each game.
I like the bump Ish has given the team but i cant believe they let him take 28 shots today. Situations like this just show they have no shooting guard worth anything.
I'd let Ish Smith take 50 shots than let Canaan shoot 5. I fucking can't stand Canaan. I don't know why he's on the team. He's worse than TJ McConnell and TJ McConnell is an undrafted free agent rookie.
The Sixers are 4-8 with Ish Smith which extrapolates to 27 wins over an entire season. Not bad considering they have yet to unveil Embiid, Saric, and a top draft pick. Tell me another team EVER in the 27 win range that has been better positioned.... you guys will eat crow when Embiid gets on the floor.
Give credit to Hinkie for doing his job... his assignment was to tank. think about it, simply adding a back-up PG took this team from basically a 3-79 team to a 27 win team. thats pretty crazy. one player worth 24 wins??? we are in much better position than previously thought. admit that at least.
Now there are reports out of New York that Sixers ownership made the Okafor pick and would not allow Hinkie to consider Porzingis. If that's the case (and we'll never know the truth), what a shame.
It kind of makes sense.
Say what you want about the rebuild philosophy, which I don't want to debate any longer, Hinkie has been a shrewd enough talent evaluator to draft guys KJ, Grant,and Holmes in the second round, pluck ROCO from D-league, and find some productive underrated guys as well. I find it odd that of all the trips he made to Europe to personally scout Porzingis, he would have blown that opportunity. It just doesn't make sense considering the recent draft history (athletic, modern day NBA fits and abilities), overall draft philosophy(having luxury of patience), heavy analytics influence, and style of play they want to promote. Oh well.
One month until the trade deadline. As others have mentioned - adding another perimeter player who can create his own shot would be nice. I think Stauskus shows flashes of this ability so I keep him in the mix - but guys like Canaan, Jakaar and Thompson can really be consolidated.
One month until the trade deadline. As others have mentioned - adding another perimeter player who can create his own shot would be nice. I think Stauskus shows flashes of this ability so I keep him in the mix - but guys like Canaan, Jakaar and Thompson can really be consolidated.
i respect the call. but is Bentil even projected to be drafted at this point ? draft express is a little slow with updates, but he isn't in their top 50 right now, id worry more about getting the high picks right at this point. Dunn & Ingram would be ideal for me - ingram is growing on me. Hinkie is a spot on drafter so i am not worried about him doing the right thing. Turns out his prozingis miss was probably not even his call. Embiid will turn all of you haters back into sixer fans... uh oh, the titanic is turning... look out
Now we're making excuses for Hinkie. This so called Spot-on-Drafter has had zero good picks in three drafts. Of the 16 draft picks he has made over the last three years, only 3 are on the team! Pretty much the opposite of spot-on.
[Note: Nerlens was a trade, not a draft pick. I know that is nit picking, so if you want to include him then it is one good pick in three drafts, and 4 players on the team out of 17 picks. Still horrendous.]
In fairness, I think you are both being way too extreme. I give him credit for Noel. I also give him credit for MCW becoming an asset. Embid and Saric are definitely question marks - but I don't think you write them off and ultimately I still think Embid was the pick. I think Grant and KJ were very solid picks. Porzingis was the big miss and Holmes was a good pick.
Overall - I would prefer we have Greak Freak, Gobert, Porzingis, etc. But it isn't like we have ended up with a bunch of duds.
No one will bat 100% and Hinkie may have screwed himself by missing the one pitch (Porzingis) that matters. I don't feel at a disadvantage if he is a decision maker in the next draft.
"Whatever happened, Miller didn't make it easy for Philadelphia to draft Porzingis at No. 3. The Sixers wouldn't be afforded Porzingis' physical, nor get a private workout, nor even a face-to-face meeting. After most of the pro day executives cleared out of the gym in Vegas in mid-June, 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie lingered to meet with Miller. Hinkie stopped him in the lobby area and asked Miller about a chance to sit down and visit with Porzingis.
"You said that I would get a meeting with him here," Hinkie told Miller.
"I said, 'I'd try,' and it's not going to work out, Sam," Miller responded.
An awkward silence lingered, the GM and agent, standing and staring. The Porzingis camp wanted no part of the Sixers' situation at No 3. Miller couldn't stop Philadelphia from drafting Porzingis, but he could limit the information they had to make a decision. And did. No physical. No meeting. No workout."
Whose fault is that?
The bitter irony here is that after all the praise Hinkie receives for scouring the globe to do his due diligence on these players, he ends up with LESS information when all is said and done. Porzingis' camp simply denied him access and medical records.
Looks like Jared Dudley isn't the only one. Which prospect will tell Hinkie to take a hike this year? Maybe Simmons.
Looks like Stan nailed it with his guess, while The Six continues to massage Hinkie's balls laying the blame on ownership. And calling the guy "shrewd" for drafting a couple of athletic, average to below average guys in the second round. Laughed my ass off when I read that preposterous statement.
I assume the outgoing package would be centered around Okafor and Covington. We don't really have much else to give that would be of any help to the Clips right now.
I don't think Jah helps the Clips. They need wings and current talent, Sixers only have bigs and future assets. I'm not a Blake fan, but I guess the Sixers would have to do it if given the chance.
Yeah, they'd have to find a third team to unload Okafor. He's a pretty big net negative at this point and wouldn't be a good fit for LAC. Unless they want to blow it up and go back to the dark ages.
If there was any confusion about who has more power between Colangelo and Hinkie, I think this answers it pretty clearly:
Colangelo: “I think that any time you have an opportunity to enhance your organization and you bring people in to accomplish that, you need to consider it big time. You really do. I think in our case we have a very bright young man in Sam Hinkie, who holds the title of president and GM. In his space he’s really strong.
“One could build a case for saying you’d like to have more people added who have experience in other aspects of those job. That’s the kind of conversation’s that going on.
“And the question you’re asking is, ‘Is there a need or requirement for someone else?’ Maybe. Probably. That’s all being discussed.”
When asked if they are discussing another general manager:
Colangelo: “No, I’m not being specific. I’m just saying adding someone, people to the front office. Maybe it’s not a person. And that’s not demeaning who we have. That’s just saying you got to be strong.”
@WojVerticalNBA The Wizards send DeJuan Blair, Kris Humphries and future first-round pick to the Suns for Markieff Morris, league sources tell @TheVertical.
so that's, what, roughly $1.65 mil in Harris' pocket this go-round?
keep up the good work, Sam. The grand total of your 3 year heist is well into the 8 figure range by now, and that's just from cap floor circumvention alone. And you still have the plausible deniability card in your pocket in case anyone questions your "cap optionality" rhetoric. or whatever it's called when you spend below the floor every year but never actually acquire any players that the cap space was supposedly being reserved for.
franchise value should already be in excess of $1 billion, and we're just one generational superstar away from being good. the process has been trusted.
The team offered packages that included shooting guard Nik Stauskas, point guard Ish Smith, a player with an expiring guaranteed contract and a 2016 first-round pick to the Atlanta Hawks for point guard Dennis Schroder, according to multiple league sources
let me get this straight .... you believe that Shroder is a max salary player and yet the best you offer is Ish Smith and a box of scraps? the pick offered i assume was the late 1st rounder?
not saying he is or he isn't a max player, just seems a little inconsistent.
Our former GM Hinkie drafting Okafor set back the Sixers for another two years. Even though they sucked last year, at least the Sixers had a defense-first, get-out-and-run mentality.
I watched Okafor on defense almost every play last night. He looks like he is dogging it, but I think that is only because he is slow afoot--not explosive at all. He just has very little innate defensive abilities. With Okafor, they are allowing historic totals on defense, and then standing around watching him isolate on offense. There is no identity anymore.
Drafting Okafor also exacerbated the logjam at center.
Great job Sam. Keep holding your cap-ologist clipboard for Colangelo.
would you have traded Okafor to the Celtics for their 2016 BKN pick?
and would you have done that trade if you're the Celtics?
making that trade would have given the Sixers a 65% chance to land in the top 2, as things currently stand, which would mean a 65% chance to take one of Ingram or Simmons. And at worst, the Nets pick probably still lands in the Dunn/Murray/Brown range.
I wouldn't have done that straight up. And I would have done it if I were Boston. I think Okafor is elite at something few others are elite at today. Whether or not that can be anything is a total question mark, but scarcity has value. I also think Boston is built defensively to mask someone like him so they might actually make him work. I just have a hard time looking at his stats and saying "really? A 20 year old with record offensive efficiency stats on such a shitty team is already ruled out as a building block?"
If Philly got Smart or Bradley then I would have seriously considered it. I understand the 65% argument but this only adds a small percentage to something already high - and I'm low on the draft at this point - I just see flaws everywhere and don't see a huge upgrade versus some prospects we already have.
I was able to see the second half of a Euro league game starring Dario Saric. Here are my notes on Dario:
--He is getting minutes. He played pretty much the entire second half.
--He was not physically imposing as compared to the other forwards on the floor.
--He is a good but not great rebounder
--His jump shot was not falling, but his form looked OK. He was 3-4 from the line.
--He seemed to put forth effort on defense. For example, a player on the other team was free in the lane and went up for a monster one-handed dunk. Saric contested it and made the guy miss the dunk, but they called a foul. I really liked that sequence.
--made a couple good passes like you would expect from a euro
--His handle was bad for a shooting guard, OK for a 3 and good for a 4. I heard he had these great ball skills, and they were just OK.
--He didn't have any eye-popping skills, which was disappointing.
If you will allow me to do some amateur scouting projections: I would guess that he can be a rotation player, but I definitely do not see him as a team-changer.
exactly. which is why this whole 3 year "Dario Watch" thing is going to look very silly in retrospect in a couple years, after we realize he's just a regular rotation guy. They could have taken McDermott at 10 and flipped him to the Bulls for 16 & 19 like Denver did one pick later. Nurkic/Hood wouldn't look too bad right about now.
But Hinkie was more concerned with kicking the can as far as possible to delay his evaluation as a GM. and justifying that by screaming "BPA", even though he can't identify the BPA.
that 1st rounder was protected 1-11, so it wouldn't have conveyed.
That leaves trade flexibility, per Stepien Rule as you said. So far, there have been no trades made using the Sixers' own 1sts, so the opportunity cost has been 0. I'd also argue that there were other ways to recoup that conditional 2017 pick if they really wanted to make some moves using their own first rounders.
So no, Hood + Capela would have been better in my opinion. as for the second rounders - meh.
I preferred the trade we made to get back that first rounder. Even opening up the possibility to trade that pick in the future for a star player (I understand low likelihood) has/had benefits. I wasn't a fan of the Saric pick at the time but hoping it turns out okay. Seeing Rodney Hood is the biggest disappointment to me as he seems like a real two guard (unlike Stauskus).
it wasn't that bad of a trade I suppose. I get that trade flexibility is a staple of this strategy, so I understand why they did it at the time (reclaiming their 2017 1st). I just think Saric is a pretty underwhelming prospect, all things considered. and having to wait this long on a player I was never too excited about is just made worse by seeing guys like Rodney Hood and Clint Capela beginning to excel.
I'm no Euroleague expert, so i actually would have been alright with Saric in the late lotto if he would've suited up right away.
agreed on Stauskas. every time I see him he's either glued to a screen or bricking a jumpshot.
@DerekBodnerNBA Jahlil Okafor will undergo a minor arthroscopic procedure in his right knee. He should resume full basketball activities in approx 6 weeks.
lol , no comments since March 11???
Brian , can you please write a new thread on the draft ?
ive seen some press out of LA suggesting the Lakers should take Buddy Hield over Simmons or Ingram. what do you think about this ? If Hield is top 4 on the board, is he a better pick for the Sixers to make at 1? 2? or 3? It seems that the consensus for Philly fans was we did not want the Lakers pick to convey this year...has this changed with the emergence of Buddy Hield? Would we want the 1 and 4 pick or the 2 and 4 pick if Hield can be had at 4?
Sorry, haven't had time for a new post. Will probably have to wait until the end of the season, on the edge of my seat waiting to see if they'll tie the record.
Halle-fuckin'-lujah!!! Just sat down in front of the tube and saw the scroll on the bottomline and I had to rewind the DVR twice to read it again and again.
The little weasel is gone!!! I pray this is the second best day of my Sixers fandom history (to this point), right behind the '83 clinching game. I could not be any more happier and elated right now.
The Evan Turner of management level has exited stage left. I take that back, that is doing Evanordinary(!) a disservice, he didn't stink the joint up anywhere close to as bad as Hinkie did.
Fucking clueless clown. Overblown by his minions exponentially.
Don't let the door hit you you useless and worthless and egotistical scrub. You won't fuck up this high pick now will ya....? Ha
Agreed. This may be the most celebratory day of this century for Sixers's fan. The finals run in 2001 was exciting but for a single incident this is tops. This is the sports equivalent of how citizens of occupied territories must feel when they are liberated.
I mean, seriously. That is exactly how to describe how I'm feeling right now - liberated. Thanks for explaining it that way. At the same time, it feels weird. Here I am feeling like I'm on the mountain top all because a so-called executive got fired (we all know the 'stepped down' was for PR). We haven't won a darn thing and still don't have anything close to a team yet I'm so giddy it's somewhat surreal.
I really didn't think this day would even come this soon. Was still on pins and needles when they didn't can him in connection with the Colangelo announcement. Can only hope it doesn't take 3 more years for Harris to finally sell. That will be another joyous day for me.
Ah, yes. Iverson and a band of scrubs as the 9th best overall team in the league squeak through the East and make a play for a ring. lol. just like the nets 'championship run' teams of the early 2000s, purely a function of a watered down conference with zero chance of winning... this is the problem with our fan base, we view that as success.
heh. It's worth a read. 3/4ths of it are spent evoking a half dozen historical figures ranging from Lincoln, to 19th century mathematician JC Maxwell, to Elon Musk and Warren Buffett, and drawing tortured analogies between pioneering efforts made in various fields and industries and what he has been doing with the Sixers. The purpose of the letter is somewhere between reiterating his "novel" scientific approach to GMing (apparently Hinkie invented 'reason'. Before Sam, GMs relied on tribal mysticism for their decision making), and taking oblique, encrypted shots at Harris, Colangelo, and Scott O'Neil. It reads like a cathartic career suicide note/angsty plea from a man who views himself as some misunderstood intellectual ahead of his time. The juxtaposition of humility with esoteric literary passages/obscure name dropping is what gets me the most in this.
Here's the problem though. His decision making has been a demonstrable failure. Asking to be judged on process over results and rationalizing every mistake with "I made the best possible decision at the time, with the best information I had available" simply won't do in a results driven field where only 30 jobs exist. I'm sure the execs who drafted Stromile Swift and Darius Miles also had well formulated reasons/visions/intentions that explained why they were the "right" picks at that time. that doesn't make them actually right. They miscalculated, when their job calls for correct calculation.
Even the popular argument: "you have to look at the starting points before comparing this rebuild with the Celtics, Wolves, Bucks, Suns, Magic, etc." doesn't work. Sure, the cupboard was bare and Hinkie gained some assets. But he was also given unprecedented leeway to make that his sole priority - no other GM has ever had this type of luxury. When you have the freedom to focus solely on seeking out inefficiencies in the trade market/salary cap structure for 3 years, with no expectations of winning games or building a viable roster, you'll be able to squeeze a couple of extra picks and land a guy like Stauskas in exchange for renting out some cap space. 29 teams have a directive to win, while 1 can hang out at the bottom collecting debris from the rest of them.
hell I can do it, just let me forfeit a bunch of seasons real quick. Sorry Hinkie, you weren't a good GM. You're basically David Kahn, except with a compulsive fixation on centers instead of point guards.
The effluvium of Hinkie's reign will not dissipate quickly.
Reading his preening 13-page resignation letter - crabbed with ridiculous cross-references and allusions from his delusional eggheaded mind - was a practice in reading the diary of an overeducated, underwhelming and prideful-to-the-vainglorious end Walter Mitty.
To borrow from former Minnesota statesman Hubert Humphrey, I am pleased as punch by Hinkie's exit. But I know the house of the Sixers is under water and desperately needs a functioning sump pump. Will 'Pee Wee' Harris sell? Will 'Coin Collector' Brown be vamoosed? Will celebrated half-players Noel and Okafor be moved for the mercy of the fans? Will the Colangelo father & son team magically give nepotism a good name? Will the remaining roster rubbish be broomed from our sore eyes? These and other questions will be answered, presumably before Abraham Lincoln is exhumed by a dedicated, night-goggled, shovel-ready Sam Hinkie.
Brian, I hope your interest in all things Sixers is revived by last night's breaking news.
In closing, exclaiming from the exurb of Bedrock Change: "Yabba Dabba Doooooo!!!"
Oh, and as for Okafor's offcourt antics, it doesn't really matter. He's a scrub on the floor, any more late night antics will simply turn what would've been an unremarkable 8-10 year career bouncing around the league into a 5-7 year career where people will fondly remember his days at Duke and say "If only..."
That about sums it up. You been watching any of these games Brian?
Nah, I've found better uses for my time. This is a disgrace, and really if you're outside of the Hinkie bubble, it's beyond embarrassing.
Jerry Coangelo joined the Sixers organization today. i guess he doesn't agree with Jared Dudley.
lol if you think 76 year old, living in PHX jerry Coangelo is replacing hinkie as GM
all this can change if harris gets inpatient but so far he hasnt
I actually see this as a positive. Not because I think this old head will do much to help us, but more because it shows a flicker of a commitment to winning by ownership. I don't think Colangelo will make the Sixers any more money (i.e. an investment or ROI), so the only benefit he brings from an owners perspective is a chance of making a better basketball team. His salary is just money out the window if one does not care about winning.
Trying to look for some positives in this dreadful season...
Could be a sign they're moving toward a sale. Adding a known name to the front office to hopefully show a commitment to winning. That, or Colangelo will immediately be put in charge of hiring scouts, since Hinkie has shown a propensity for making shitty draft picks. Who knows/cares?
"Could be a sign they're moving toward a sale"
Let's hope so. In fact, wouldn't now be the time? The team is lean to the bones with 4 potential first rounders queued up for the summer.
https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/673990954689290240
no Kawhi tonight(hes sick)
also no duncan
noel putback
when canaan is at sg and not asked to do much other than shoot i think he can be decent
lma bucket
grant bucket
lma blows a great pass from tony
cov to the line
split them
rc3
again
wroten up to 16 minutes
that parker spin is gorgeous
wroten still cant shoot
spurs d is unreal
down 33-17 end of the 1st
26-6 spurs run to end the quarter
canaan to noel
the hard hedge is not working at all
if the sixers score 70 ill be happy
wroten to the line
made both
wroten to noel oop
down 51-23
holmes puts back his miss
stauskas jumper
down 65-29 at the half
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/sixers/2015/12/07/jerry-colangelo-hire-change-rebuilding-plan-sam-hinkie-76ers/76954620/
the kings can be a mess for 10+ years but the sixers cant get 3 fucking years?!
feel like noel is biting on more pump fakes this year
okafor to the line
split them
grant putback
okafor through lma
grant to the line
split them
some huge 7-3 guy for the spurs just checked in
boban marjanovic
posting okafor on him is not a good idea
stauskas has been the only good thing tonight
post the 7-3 guy every play
just put wroten on a poster
https://vine.co/v/i7DOVD9D2dg
down 96-52 end of the 3rd
didnt think there was anything on worse than this game
then i put on the DAL/WSH game for a few plays
lost 119-68
BKN on thursday
The Collangelo news is really really interesting. I don't think Hinkie can feel BETTER about his job after this. I could see it being driven by the league.
If this works well, Collangelo helps rebuild any tension between us and agents/players (although I thought those concerns were overstated). I do think we could add a veteran free agent or adjust the roster a bit here. Hopefully that means something small like Amare Stoudemire as an end of the bench guy and not someone like Derrick Rose.
I just don't like Silver's role here. It's sounds like he gave Harris some sort of ultimatum about consequences down the road, and Collangelo is the compromise. I'm sure more info will come out, but I don't like the sound of it thus far.
seems like the other owners pressured silver
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14317233/nba-owners-lobbied-league-office-philadelphia-76ers-changes
I guess I can take back my earlier attempt at positivism. Harris being forced to make this hire is not even a flicker of a commitment to winning.
Well at least the plan is in play for a solid draft next year unless Colangelo goes nuts and starts trading away assets at the deadline. Let things be for this last season, and then make the changes going into next season. I think that was the plan anyway.
I just wish Hinkie didn't miss on Porzingis. He had to get these high picks right, and the early returns are that he missed on him. Very disappointing considering how much time he personally scouted him.
Does this mean that Harris wasn't happy with Hinkie's execution of the plan ? or is Coangelo just a schill ?
JC's interviews reveal more power than initially expressed to the market. That shouldn't come as a huge surprise, at 76 I doubt he wants to take orders from anyone else. I would also add his son could be the GM of the future if his age doesn't allow him to fill that role.
I still hold hope that he will make calculated moves from here on out.
I think the best example would be acquiring Amare Stoudemire versus acquiring Derrick Rose. I think Amare could help Noel and I would have no issue with him sitting on the end of our bench and being a mentor. I think Rose would be step back and represents the type of player I would not want.
The team USA connections are interesting...
If the league stepped in and forced Harris to make this move, I'm glad they took some action but it really means absolutely nothing in the long term unless he's been inserted as the dictator of the organization. If he's there simply to mollify Silver and the other owners, then Hinkie/Harris will pay him his salary and lip service and just keep running the team into the ground while they collect the league's welfare checks and drive toward a sale. I wish the other owners would've taken a much bolder stance and changed the lottery system when they had the chance.
Nothing's going to stop this from happening until the owners are willing to do a couple of things:
(1) Say no when a dickwad hedge fund/PE with a history of being a vulture puts together an offer to buy a team.
(2) Reform the lottery AND the profit sharing system to the point where winning is incentivized, rather than losing.
(3) Buy the team out from under Harris and excommunicate Hinkie.
the MIA heat have played 19 games, 14(!!!!) have been at home
Well I'll be...
Clueless clown done got bumped from lead circus act to just a sideshow act. About damn time!
No more carte blanche for the Hinkster. Hallelujah!
The long overdue castration of Hinkie is a day, quite a wonderful one, that I never ever thought I'd have the luxury of experiencing in the middle of a season. Didn't think I'd ever see it at the end of one. But the middle? Welcome change, indeed.
Thank you(!!!), whomever the fuck is responsible.
I don't think a better day could happen for this franchise and the game of basketball until his ass finally gets fired.
Are the basketball gods back?
Any thoughts on vets we could go after at the trade deadline.
I still think a package to acquire Bradley Beal could be interesting. I think his perceived value is diminishing (despite huge upside) - you just need certainty you can sign him.
What was your offseason pipe dream again? (can't remember but it was a particular player you wanted to go after real bad?)
Nevermind I remember now, it was Danny Green.
Well Bradley Beal has now become your trade deadline pipe dream. Never happen.
Ha - I totally agree its a pipedream. I am thinking of anyone outside the usual suspects mentioned (Cousins, Rose, etc).
Bradley Beal is not happening. There's nothing Philly can give up that will get Beal.
My guess is DeMarcus Cousins, Kyle Lowry, or Eric Gordon.
What would you give up for Cousins? He strikes me as a sociopath and I keep thinking about that one scout who said he'll be in jail within 5 years.
Let's have a Hinkie memorial service. my favorite Hinkie moment was that press conference where he said that winning happens on a non-linear trajectory. His euphemism for "please overlook the fact that I still don't have shit to show you after 2 seasons/4 lotto picks"
My favorite Hinkie moment: KJ McDaniels owning him on contract negotiations.
Ahhh, no! He's had me in my own Sixers memorial service going on 3 years now.
Fuck him.
I did like him driving Evan Turner to the airport after trading him for a second round pick, essentially the last in the draft.
what young free agents are available this summer? who would you like them to sign that wouldn't put them in the perennial 8 seed category? kyle lowry & eric gordon have been mentioned... you seriously want those guys? they do nothing to move the needle
At some point you have to flip the switch and try, as they did for Butler and Kawhi, regardless of the 8-seed potential. The hope is Embiid/Noel/Saric/Okafor and the 2016 picks yield a top-tier talent or two.
I'd take a shot at:
Unrestricted FAs - Harrison Barnes, Conley, Horford, Jennings, Chalmers, Courtney Lee
Restricted FAs - Beal, Drummond, Clarkson
Also guys like Eric Gordon, Batum, Rondo, DeRozan, and Terrence Ross available, but I'm not a big fan of any of them.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12307054/nba-free-agents-2016-2017
All long shots, but maybe you pick a guy like Barnes or Conley and go all-in for him, then hope for a miracle in 2017, with guys like Lowry/Gallo/Westbrook/Curry/Ibaka/Oladipo/CJ McCollum.
I worry that bringing in Jerry Colangelo means that his son Bryan will be the GM in 2 years.
when the sixers dont finish with the worst record, will the NBA step in and try to mess with that team?
If that team is blatantly making a mockery of the sport and profiteering off the system, probably. There's a clear difference between what the Sixers have been doing and just being a bad team and it's not even subjective. If you start multiple seasons in a row with 3/4 of your roster spots taken up by d-league level players, at best, there should be consequences. There should be consequences in the league structure, I suppose, but the league was based on the naive notion that turning your fan base off and being a laughingstock was motivation enough to actually try to win.
Btw, Golden State went from 23-43 to pure dominance with the following draft picks over a 4-year period:
Harrison Barnes, #7,
Festus Ezeli, #30,
Draymond Green, #35,
Ognjen Kuzmic, #52,
Kevin Looney, #30.
and before you complain about Curry and Thompson being on the roster already, Curry was taken #7 after the team won 29 games the previous season, Thompson was taken #11 after winning 36 games the previous season.
The Warriors also made a slew of laughable trades and free agent signings over their years of dreaded mediocrity. Bringing in a bunch of losers like Iguodala and Bogut. What fools! If only they were as clever as Hinkie.
It's all about odds, though. I mean, if you give Hinkie enough time he's going to prove that even a guy who is completely out of his depth can't blow EVERY high draft pick he gets. Just because he's blown the first 8 doesn't mean he'll blow the next 10. And really, blowing those picks isn't a bad thing, because it means he'll have more picks to blow in the future, so technically every blown pick is worth more than a good pick, because it equals more picks to blow. It's pure genius, I'm sure this was all covered in the James Harden powerpoint he blew Josh Harris' socks off with. What a stud.
just doesnt sit well with me when they arent doing anything against the rules and the NBA is trying to change what they are doing
The nba should be changing the rules. That's the answer. The Sixers have exposed a flaw in the system, they're going about plugging that hole in a backhanded way, which is stupid. I'll agree with you there.
They hit on a generational talent at #7. But I agree, it should fuel the debate against tanking for #1 (they did tank for that Barnes pick).
Statistics say you need a large enough sample size to have reasonable outcomes, right? (correct me if I am wrong statheads). Leaving it up to probability might not be that great an idea when you get 1 shot each year.
Al Jefferson suspended 5 games(testing positive for weed 3 times)
if only CHA had some vets.....
The Okafor ceiling suspended for 5 games...sounds about right.
You're better than resorting to straw men like this. You know that "let's splurge on random vets" was never the argument on here.
Hinkie's process, as put forth initially, was never the main problem either IMO (except for the length, I think 3+ years of tanking is ridiculous and demonstrates managerial incompetence). His process was just riddled with errors, poor decisions, crap player-development, and lackluster talent evaluation, which is why we're seeing regression on the court in year 3 as opposed to progress. Fans have the patience for a proper rebuilding process, they just don't have patience for poor execution.
My hope for JC is that he can usurp Hinkie's authority on the player evaluation front and repair some of the relationships and perceptions around the league by this summer. I would have just fired Hinkie to speed all that up, but hopefully this at least begins the process of gradually phasing him out.
I wouldn't mind a young vet with some upside like Beal if they can get him at a good price, but I disagree with stuff like the Stoudemire idea for example. I just don't see what that does aside from 'mentorship'. And even then I'm still not sure what he does. Plenty of NBA vets are just guys in their late 20's who do stupid stuff too, I agree with you there.
His major mistake has been drafting Okafor over Porzingas. Porzingas looks like he's going to be a top 10 NBA player in a few years.
Clarify:
the ONLY mistake. everything else is 20/20 2nd guessing.
I agree. It was a HUGE mistake. Okafor might be get to a few all-star games, Porzingas looks like a future HOFer.
Drafting Embiid to me was the right decision. Smart, Randle, Gordon, and Exum are nothing special.
Trading MCW for LA's pick I agree with.
Trading Jrue for Noel and the #10 pick, i'm 50/50 on. It only looks good now because Jrue has had injury problems. I would take 2012 Jrue over Noel and I'm not crazy about Dario.
I like tanking, but I absolutely hate how this roster is comprised 10% of solid prospects and 90% crap.
The Embiid was the biggest screw up in Hinkie's tenure. It set the franchise back two years.
I know this sounds results oriented, but look at the facts that Hinkie knew before making the selection. Embiid had suffered a knee injury where he missed games, a stress fracture in his back and a bone break in his foot--all in less than a year prior to the draft. All of these injuries are especially problematic for centers. The chances of him being able to play were so low that he should not have been considered for the third pick.
I'm often asked, "then who should they have picked?" My answer is anyone who actually had a chance of seeing the floor. Or trade for future picks. Anything but what they did would have been better.
The team would have sucked anyway. I thought it was a solid gamble. Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, and Aaron Gordon are nothing special.
Okafor was the bigger fuck up even though he's having a solid rookie year. We passed up on a generational talent.
Embiid wasn't a f-up. here is why. try to find fault in this logic.
1) Wiggins is exactly as expected.
2) pre-injury, Embiid would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, i.e. he was projected to be at least as good as Wiggins is now. which is franchise cornerstone material
3) what are the chance Embiid comes back 100% like the doctors who do this for a living suggest? even if that number is only 20%, a 20% chance today for a franchise cornerstone is better than any pick in that draft and still has significant value right now.. .20% is conservative . btw, i see it as 60% or so .
4) on draft day, there was far less uncertainty than there is now. it was a no - brainer
AaronMckie4MVP:
I’ve enjoyed our discussions on this board, so here’s my best shot at finding fault with your logic.
1. I agree.
2. I definitely do NOT KNOW that Embiid would have been picked ahead of Wiggins. Minnesota never said either way, and Embiid had a stress fracture in his lower back. I believe that Wiggins would have been picked ahead of Embiid. We also do not know that a healthy Embiid would have been as good as Wiggins. There is no way of knowing either of these things. Also, projections about Embiid being as good as Wiggins had the omnipresent “if healthy” tag on it.
3. I define a generational talent as a perennial all star. I think that is a fair definition, agree? A 20% chance is very high, I believe. And 60% is ludicrous. My number is more like 1% that he will be a generational talent.
Obviously, there is no way of knowing which number, 1 or 60 is correct, since this so subjective, even for doctors. But, I’ll just do my best to make my case with the info I have:
Fact 1: Embiid had a knee injury in his one season in college where he missed time
Fact 2: Embiid had a stress fracture in his back later in the same year—very concerning for a center
Fact 3: Embiid broke his foot before the draft
Fact 4: All three facts above happened after only 28 games in college
Fact 5: Embiid, half-assed his recovery—this is not even disputed by the Sixers
Fact 6: Embiid re-broke the same bone in his foot
Fact 7: Embiid does not pay attention to diet or fitness recommendations by the Sixers—also not disputed by the Sixers, and even confirmed by Scott O’Neil
Fact 8: the NBA plays 3 times more games in one season than Embiid has played in his one year career at Kansas, a year where he had 3 injuries.
Sharone opinion/question #1: how is Embiid supposed to stay healthy in 82 games seasons when he had three injuries in 28 games—then re-broke his foot after zero NBA games?
Sharone opinion/question #2: how do we know Embiid will take his current and future rehabs seriously? Based on and recent history (fact 5 and 7), he probably won’t.
Sharone opinion/question #3: Why would a doctor who operated on him say anything except we anticipate a full recovery? The doctor who did his first surgery said he would fully recover and guess what? He didn’t. I prefer to look at other centers who have similar problems: Greg Oden, Yao Ming, Brendan Heywood and Zydrunas Illgauskas. Only Z had a long career after the foot injury, and he didn’t have knee or back injuries.
Sharone opinion/question #4: Even if he does come back and play well for short stints, how in the world will he possibly stay healthy enough to be a perennial all star, when he had four injuries in 28 career games? Remember that back and foot injuries are particularly concerning for centers. Even if he never misses another game, will he even be that good? Will he have a bad attitude and not reach his potential?
Based on my thought process above, I give him 1%, who was not worth the risk.
4. You’re saying it was a no-brainer because there was far less certainty. I don’t know how you can say that regarding a guy who at the time was on his third injury in a year, in a league moving toward elite wing players & guards. If someone would have done some good interviews on him, maybe they would have uncovered that he is an insubordinate knucklehead. I think it was a brainer, not a no-brainer.
thanks SharoneWright
on #2..
whether he would have been 1 or 2, no matter. the point is that a healthy Embiid was in the convo with Wiggins. you want to say #2 fine.. their risk adjusted present values assuming healthy were in the same ballpark .. agree? and given wiggins is blossoming as good as expected, at the time of the draft, this type of overall value was embiids expectation...
on #3
my 60% is based only on health... i am going back to draft-day projections to equate the value (because those haven't changed)
so now ,here we are today.. Embiid expectations have not changed... only his health percentage has. so put a number on that .... Even if its as low as 20%, we are still in the money as far as i am concerned. 20% chance at Wiggins-equivalent value or something close to that (again , go back to the logic we built in #2) is still a great value. my number is 60% , yours is 1% , so we are obviously on a different page...
your facts are all facts...although i am only concerned about the foot, not the other stuff. and i just think its going to be fine. i can't really argue with any additional facts ... i just see a freak athlete and believe he will heal . doctors dont always say they expect a full recovery. there are always caveats... they were never overly positive about oden. so i dont think their language is common,. i could not find similar language after the surgeries of the other players.
on #4... at the time, it was a no-brainer. There is obviously more information and downside now..
You're completely right, that was the biggest mistake. And it's not even results oriented, this and a dozen more of his missteps were being pointed out as they were happening over the past 3 years, so Mr. McKie MVP needs to check the tape before talking about 20/20 hindsight. Of course if Hinkie could've tanked right that season instead of holding on to half of the Doug Collins' remnants while they were costing him the worst record, they wouldn't have got stuck with the third pick in a two player draft in the first place.
It's gotta be a joke to say this was the only mistake he made. I can list about 10 (some big, some small) I've noticed and commented on over his tenure and probably 15+ if I'm allowed 20/20 hindsight. But it can be summed up pretty nicely & concisely like this: 3 years, 1 rotation player discovered in over 60 signings, 2 starters from 5 lottery picks, no stars, a worse product in year 3 than in year 1. Case closed.
anonomiencal
you need to use facts to show what the missteps are. i was the first to say Prozingis was a mistake. but thats it.
your rant mentions me by name but includes no facts. i dare you to argue my logic on Embiid..go ahead, make your move.
I have absolutely 0 interest in how pro-Hinkie or Pro-zingis you are and therefore 0 interest in changing your mind. My move is to move right past your comments.
fair enough. then move passed it without mentioning my name. i only respond to people who are capable of having an adult conversation
Anon -
didn't you give a point by point long retort to my post? or was i dreaming?... i could have sworn i saw it last night, and came on to respond and its no longer here...
Sharone did, not me. scroll up some.
Sixerfan -
Don Sterling didn't lose his ownership because he is a racist. he lost it because the other owners determined his comments would impact Clippers sales and by extension the broader valuation of NBA franchises. there is clearly a clause that in a such an event, the owners have legal remedy.
it sounds like the owners whispered something about this to Silver and Silver hinted such to Harris who took action so that down the line he can circumvent this type of claim if it comes up.
Every team that tanks has a reason for doing so. Either through incompetence, having a superstar that wants out, injury, or superstar that retires. I think the Sixers are the only team that tanked by trading away a 23 year old allstar PG.
I remember wanting the Sixers to offer Bynum a max deal because it would mean that it he either gets healthy or they can tank without getting pressured to sign an Al Jefferson.
I never thought that a management team would actually be so blatant in tanking. It sends a bad message about the NBA. There's no point in trying to field a good competitive team because the chances of winning a championship has to do with being able to acquire a select few players.
this sums up my thoughts pretty well
http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/12/long-live-the-process?utm_campaign=sportstw&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
no one's posted this yet?
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/12/10/sixers-blitzer-harris-london/
Is that a shock to anyone? The NFL would be insane to approve an ownership group led by Harris, I hope they're smarter than that.
The Forbes article that is sourced suggests the Sixers would go for about 900M if sold.
This is big news. I gotta hand it to you, you called this years in advance.
Major hat tip here as I do believe "where there is smoke there is fire". I have long defended against your conspiracy theory pieced in with the tanking.
Mannnn, you were all over this from DAY ONE.
I remember you writing something about your wife having experiences with these private equity guys by way of writing about them or something like that.
If this Forbes article ends up having any validity to it, this shit just keeps getting better and better (at least from my standpoint). I commented on here some time during that first year of this mess that these clusterfucks actually made me miss Ed Snider. Not even did I know how true that could end up being.
If all this speculation does come to fruition, when you really think about it, this whole damn charade is truly funny as all get-out.
Fan... after fan... after fan... were all hoodwinked! Straight duped to depths not even measurable!!
LOL!
It really is hilarious. These guys actually mastered and developed a cult-like following while the whole time they were just turning the knife in their minions backs. (if this hopeful sale by Harris and/or firing of Hinkie goes through)
I'm just thankful I never liked any of it from the start. Never once fell for it. If I had been an advocate of what they were doing, or a believer, I would be one mad and pissed off motherfucker right about now.
But thankfully I can seriously laugh and say "whew(!), this shit might finally be over with" since I was a proponent from jump.
whoops *an opponent, not proponent
Let's say the conspiracy theory was always right and every basketball decision was made to improve the team's sales value. Isn't this good news for the anti-Hinkie's at this point? The Sixers have some high-potential picks, a couple tradeable guys, and the owner you hate may sell the team. I'm glad the Comcast regime is gone. If Colangelo starts building a team now and a new owner comes in, who by buying high likely actually wants the team, great.
Yea Goodell's a bright guy /s
So...was there ever *really* a "Process" then? Or was it just about gutting a team from like some evil overlord billionaire? Jeez I'm so confused. Anyhoo...I might go to the game tonite. I gotta help my brother with the Xmas tree, and he's right down the street from Barclays, more or less. I don't even know what to think. Maybe I'll try to talk to Billy King. He'll tell me what to do.
So thinking about this a bit more... I have a tough time feeling any bit of "negativity" about the Colangelo hire.
What if we make trades for "proven players".
We have Kings pick swaps.
We have 4 first round picks this season (or some that roll over)
We have a theoretical lotto ticket in Embid.
We have a European player coming over next year.(Please Saric come over next year).
I guess I don't see how you can screw it up that much if you make an effort to improve here.
Lead going into the 4th.... I've seen this before... BUT NOT IN THE JC ERA
Down 6 after 4 minutes of the 4th quarter....
Lol
I'm hoping this is a new day.
Harris fucks off to Britain with his London Jaguars, Hinkie accepts a senior management position at Target, and Philadelphia basketball enters a new renaissance.
I'm even turning the game on.
tj 3
down to 5
should post okafor on bargs every play the rest of the game
STOP PLAYING CANAAN IN CRUNCH TIME
lost by 9
DET tomorrow
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14344789/sam-hinkie-stands-as-philly-looks-jump-start-future
"Both the Sixers and the Lakers are on a year delay," Hinkie says. "We talk about that a lot. We've planted a lot of seeds. It's fair to say the harvest hasn't come in."
Oh really Sam? Is it truly "fair" though? Like really really fair...?
Planted a lot? Really? No, you didn't actually plant a lot Sam,... you really just spun the revolver and hoped it ended up aligned, that shot in the dark, resulting in "planted" really just turning into buried them slightly beneath the surface. Just as likely to be dug up as likely to discovered.
And you've got to be shitting me...
the harvest hasn't come in, huh?...
...Ya don't fucking say do ya...?
Quite big of your minute self to finally fucking admit that.
I like your country boy mantra invoking the harvest...quite clever heh. But you've always been a circular wordsmith.
Hinkie the Hoodwinker!
Kendall Marshall will start tonight
on a minutes limit probably
huh, get down by 20+, cut the lead to like 4 or 5 and then probably going to lose by 20+
thats a new one
How's Marshall looking?
he looked ok
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76ers-in-talks-to-hire-mike-d-antoni-as-associate-head-coach-053402648.html
Heh. I think I left out a "better" in a previous comment above.
This gets better and better............... aaannnnddd better...
So now we're not even allowing the head coach, a head coach who just received a two year contract extension not even twelve hours earlier, to select his own staff? We're force-feeding him assistants? From the Chairman of Basketball Operations/Advisor to Management level?
Is it safe to say/assume that we are now the first organization to have two de facto GM's and head coaches?
Potentially bringing a guy on staff who abhors traditional post-up players just 6 months removed from drafting a traditional post-up player with the 3rd pick in the draft? A traditional post-up player that we've shifted our whole offensive philosophy toward the first 25 games?
As Lombardi said, "What the hell is going on around here..."!
This is so hilarious. Whenever new management is brought in they do two things: (1) reassure the people with "power" that nothing is going to change (2) bring in their own people and push the people in power out. Hinkie has been publicly de-nutted.
As an avid reader of this blog and its' many contributors, I'm not sure what to make of how there's boatloads of comments when the general manager of the franchise pulls off a trade for Nik Stauskas. Rejoicing galore. Strange sets in when it's stagnant and silent on here when something much more intriguing is taking place. The potential dynamics are conveniently left alone for debate. Why is that?
I hear you. I have been trying to sprinkle in some thoughts on the announcements, but they have been largely spread. And largely spread across the various comments on the "non-basketball" dynamics.
Overall, I see this week's events as an overall positive for the organization and a positive for 76er fans.
1. I expect Colangelo to fix any negative perception caused by Hinkie in regards to agents and players. I do not think the agent issue was meaningful, but regardless, I think this addresses it in one full swoop.
2. It puts us back into any trade conversations we may not have had. Colangelo has a long history of making deals. If teams really avoided making deals with Hinkie - I think that is largely over.
3. I think D'Antoni is well positioned as an assistant to Brown near term. I can see potential power struggles down the line but we get so many benefits before that comes into play.
4. I expect more focus on the makeup of the team today which I did have issues wtih. I do believe development can be affected by not having a competent point guard.
I have no issue making steps towards progress today (not even waiting until the offseason). I think we could make some moves to help that. I am looking at the point guards in the league and i KNOW Brett Brown wants a real point guard to run this team. Marshall and McConnell may fill that void for the remainder of the season - but I could see JC/Brown/MDA looking to acquire someone with a better chance of being the long term answer.
I don't think Okafor is neccesarily out of the plan. He is not incapable of taking a man off the dribble, or hitting a 15 footer. He needs to adjust his fitness, but I am not jumping to conclusions.
If the team can learn to finish some games - we will be an average bad team - with a bunch of intriguing and (hopefully) improving players. That is what I wanted this season - a competitive team. They have been the worst kind of competitive for the last 3 weeks or so (ignoring the Spurs game) - in which they lose down the stretch.
If I had to keep players right now, it would be:
McConnell
Marshall
Covington
Noel
Okafor
Holmes
Grant
I would be fine dropping
Stauskus to D League
Cutting or getting nothing in a trade for:
Hollis Thompson
Wroten
Canaan
Sampson
I would love to trade for Brandon Knight and run him with McConnell, Marshall or solo at the PG.
I would be fine dealing Heat and Thunder picks in a trade that would add a solid NBA player.
no wroten tonight
canaan 3 from tj
okafor jumper
nice passing from tj and noel there
scola bucket
rc3(why are you doubling noel in the post)
okafor from the post
good start from him
okafor o-board and is fouled
made both
ill live with that scola jumper
grant to the line
split them
sauce 3
down 32-24 end of the 1st
okafor spin move
nice pass noel to grant
canaan 3
god i cant stand him
SHOCKER
marshall comes in and the offense looks good
rc3
sauce 3
Why do we play a lineup without Marshall or McConnell? Marshall looks much better than I expected.
After a long defense, I am done with the Holkis Thompson experiment.
down 52-44 at the half
feel like okafor misses a ton of uncontested bunnies
rc3
noel to the line
missed both
noel caught an elbow and is some pain
https://vine.co/v/iZ3O7aVPYdV
hoillis is a mess right now
grant to the line
made both
hollis putback
down 69-58 end of the 3rd
9-0 sixers run to end the quarter
I feel like cutting down the rotation would do wonders.... Noel got a nice one on that Lowry elbow
marshall jumper
Noel with a left eye corneal abrasion. He will not return
okafor and 1
made the ft
rc3
again
okafor
down to 6
Damn, offense looks better with Marshall as the general, eh?
I also think Okafor can play in an uptempo system (despite the missed bunnies). Any thoughts?
yea but they need a good pg that can throw quick entries into the post which marshall can
and okafor to run a little harder
Agreed - I think many were quick to dismiss him with MDA involved. I think he can thrive as he develops conditioning.
Tough to watch him get hacked right now. Hoping we can get KM back in there shortly
okafor cant buy a call
lost 96-76
bulls tomorrow
@outsidethenba Nerlens is at the hospital, sixers don't know if he can fly tonight, per brown
Nerlens cleared to fly and is with team in Chicago, but questionable/doubtful for the game. Scratched retina.
no marshall but wroten is playing
@brianseltzer As of now, Brett Brown said no restriction on Tony Wroten. He'll start. Likely no restriction for Kendall Marshall on Wednesday in Atlanta.
prepare for my constant bitching when wroten plays more minutes than marshall
0-7 start
thankfully the bulls are 1-4 and only up 4
6-4 bulls
6:36 left in the 1st
cov putback dunk
okafor o-board and is fouled
made both
great move from okafor on pau
sauce bucket
bulls miss
tj miss
okafor up to 72% from the line
sauce 3
butler bucket
grant turnover
gasol and 1
made the ft
wroten drive
mirotic miss
wroten to the line
split them
grant to the line
split them
down 24-19 end of the 1st
wroten 3
okafor blows by noah and throws it down
okafor floater
grant block party
this game is winnable
okafor around pau
butler to the line
made both
hollis 3
tj jumper
rc3
up 56-51 at the half
if anyone can stay with butler they would be up alot more
okafor bailout jumper
grant putback dunk
getting sloppy
rc3
down 85-68 end of the 3rd
grant to the line
split them
from up 6 to probably losing by 30
i dont care what the fucking(sorry) score is but a foul is a foul
lost 115-96
ATL on WED
I really support moving Stauskus down to the D League to find his stroke. I believe he is an NBA player but he has to get his one elite skill back to being elite.
We do not have the defensive identity this year. I think Nerlens absence is a piece of it, but we do not seem to generate the same fast break opportunities as in the past.
I would not mind some roster shakeup or, at the very least, a smaller rotation.
what would the D-league do for him? We already know he can shoot against lesser competition. And if the issue is confidence (it isn't), a D-League stint would just destroy whatever of it is left.
I've just been ignoring Stauskas. so far he's more or less met my expectations. Any disappointment with him was set up by the "Process" narrative as usual. I remember Hinkie being lionized once again for fleecing Sacto in that deal, except Stauskas was being salary dumped for a reason. I posted his rookie shot charts after the trade, and his contested jump shot off the catch went in something like, less than 10% of the time.
He could get good looks in college against zones and he's money shooting in his driveway on YouTube but NBA level defense is just too much for him. There've been plenty of good college shooters who failed to translate, I think he's just the latest one.
You were all over that. The red flag for me was him not being able to get on the floor last year with the stinking Kings.
I will say, though: I still think that Sacto trade was a fleecing--even with Sauce being a stiff.
fact of the day:
even with the 2nd worst record, the Lakers still have a 45% chance of being outside the top 3.
ive noticed that Kris Dunn's stock has steadily climbing... projected consensus top 5 now, prototypical PG with potential for elite defense. smells like a filthy rich -man's eric Snow. also there are a few PG prospects in mid-late first round...
what do you guys think ?
I'm partial to Jamaal Murray. Point guards who steadily improve in college give me some caution. I'm honestly not in love with anyone in this years class.
I liked Murray at first also, but his glaring weaknesses have been exposed and likely won't have much chance at being a complete NBA player. his stock has dropped swiftly...
"Point guards who steadily improve in college give me some caution" lol. what does this even mean ? to be honest , i didnt think Kris Dunn was that sexy at first, but now i realize he is the real deal. the guy is the clear best player on the court every time he steps on it. he has nothing around him and yet Povidence is still a top competitive team . Did you see him take over and beat Arizona? and he was awesome against Mich St... the reason i spoke out against Deangelo Russell and Evan Turner was because i never saw them dominate anything....[yes this includes ETs buzzer beater to win the Big 10].. if you can't dominate in NCAA you have zero chance of being a star in the NBA [the converse is not necessarily true].
I fail to see the how Miami would be in better position with a declining 30 yr old Dwight Howard. And at the expense of Whiteside and Winslow? If they can't offer a max deal to Whiteside because of Wade's cap number, Wade would be the one to go if it was my call. That would be easy.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/
id be terrified of Whiteside on his next contract
I think the D league would benefit him as well. Why not? His shot is an NBA shot. He's has the athleticism to drive,dish, and create for others. His D is horrendous, but he can improve there.
Give him a chance to play a level down and see what happens. We traded nothing away so anything he produces is a bonus.
they should send him down and just leave him there, I agree.
by the way, none of that makes sense.
"His shot is an NBA shot." what does that mean? He has good form? I define an NBA shot as one that falls in NBA games. Stauskas has a .441 eFG. For reference, Noel's is .442. Imagine if Noel suddenly played 0 defense and his only express purpose in the league was to shoot. That's basically Stauskas right now.
"He's has the athleticism to drive,dish, and create for others."
I've seen no evidence of that. It's the same as the nonsense about playing Stauskas at PG. based on what exactly?
"His D is horrendous, but he can improve there."
He can improve his NBA D by playing somewhere other than the NBA? His "O" is also horrendous, maybe he'll improve that too. He and Rodney Carney can make each other better.
"Give him a chance to play a level down and see what happens."
His numbers will go up.
Christian Wood will also look like prime Garnett down there. At least in Wood's case, you can actually call it a "chance" since he's raw and wasn't getting any playing time. For Stauskas, it'd be anything but.
The notion that Staus is a good shooter is based on a 390 attempt sample of NCAA 3s. He has now attempted 274 NBA 3s and has made just 30%. Statistically, a player's rookie season is much much more reliable than any and all data that precedes it collectively. The players most often able to buck their early trends are toolsy teenagers with 'plus' athletic ability and low usage kids with multi-dimensional games. That's basically who makes up the outlier group in every predictive statistical model you look at.
So, while it's not wise to say that Bruno Caboclo is a scrub at this point, you can say with enough certainty that Stauskas is. He does nothing else effectively to be on the court except shoot. People want to get rid of Hollis because of that exact reason, except Hollis is actually good at his one role, and over a much larger sample (40% 3pt shooter, over twice as many minutes as Stauskas).
You're just too smart for me....how can I possibly respond?
lol
just tryna point out how every acquisition they make sucks. you know how I do.
Yes. I stand corrected. Trading nothing(cap space) for the option to swap picks with a dysfunctional SAC team in '16,'17, PLUS a future first rd pk, PLUS Stauskas, was an awful move. Made zero sense.
Thanks for participating in the discussion.
was speaking strictly about Stauskas.
anomiemnemonical reply to Sharone Wright on Jul 4 at 16:22 Reply +/-
"...I like the trade, nonetheless, but mostly for the pick swaps."
And there are costs to cap space. If you have this much of it, you probably have a roster like Philly's.
noel back tonight
noel around the zinger?
canaan bucket
okafor bank
okafor jumper
jah needed to kick that to the corner instead of taking on the double team
grant to the line
missed both
wroten bucket
wroten comes in and the offense turns into garbage
wroten to noel
lol at grant there
down 30-23 end of the 1st
https://vine.co/v/iKzxWbDqntF
hollis to the line
missed both
canaan bailout 3
noel has alot more energy tonight than he has had in a while
holmes looks good as the dive man on the p/r
wroten bad pass
wroten falls asleep on d
wroten isnt good
wroten doesnt pass to a wide open covington
wroten bucket
you would wroten would kick to someone instead of getting blocked pretty much every time he drives
think*
hollis 3
down 65-44 at the half
rc3
hes been struggling with foul trouble
wroten to the line
made both
canaan fouled shooting a 3
made all 3
maybe take canaan off afflalo, hes only been killing him all game
holmes is good
down 89-68 end of the 3rd
i wonder how much GS is going to beat them by
I don't get why Canaan gets the minutes he gets.
lost 107-97(game wasnt this close)
sunday vs CLE(kyrie might be back)
so who should they trade, Noel or Okafor? if you could only keep one.
It depends on the week for me. Honestly, I'd rather give these guys multiple seasons to play next to each other than say "it won't work" this early. Yes, they definitely don't work right now but at this stage both are just trying to find their place in the league. I'd say Noel has a clearer path to being a center on a top tier team (defensive anchor and offensive liability) - but Okafor is too gifted offensively to toss away.
I think addressing the backcourt situation is the obvious low hanging fruit here. Get some NBA caliber players to eat up regular minutes and cut down some of the upside guys. I'm already talking myself into a flyer on Brandon Jennings because of how bad it's been. Convincing myself he can leave his ego at the door and be a real point guard.
If it was a gun to my head, I'd trade Noel first. I think he actually might have greater value (very debateable), but I also think Okafor holds more value as an unknown. While everyone mimics the Warriors, people should be thinking about how to be different than the Warriors. I'm not the only one that thinks it sits in the post and making teams pay for going small - while forcing them into the paint on defense. Clearly Okafor is a liability on defense today, but I view it as largely an instinct problem which can be answered.
I think Okafor holds more value at this point based on his upside and more left on his rookie contract. I think he has the personality to improve on his weaknesses and there is a lot more unknown with him given Noel's been around a few years.
But, I wouldn't trade either yet. Noel's a good player and more valuable on the court right now. I'd like to see what they can do with a real roster that includes at least one point guard and two shooters.
Okafor. I don't have much to back this up, but I feel like Okafor's liabilities on defense are worse than Nerlens liabilities on offense. I also hope that Okafor's PPG stats will help us get a better trade than Nerlens.
i wonder if Brandon Ingram ends up being right there with simmons for the number one pick
What are the thoughts on Harrison Barnes? As the resident poster who favors various free agents, I have taken an interest in HB this coming summer. A young, wing with shooting ability and experience playing in a good system.
I think he could pair interestingly well with whatever team we may roll out next year. I am personally in favor of keeping both Noel and Okafor, but playing them less together.
Barnes - Grant - Okafor would provide an interesting lineup where Barnes could spend less energy on defense against big 4's.
Covington - Barnes - Noel would be a fun small ball lineup which supported uptempo pace.
Obviously he needs competent guards like anyone else - but I think he could be an interesting second option supporting one of our big men. it begs the question where Saric might fit in, but I am past worrying about anything like that and focused on getting some real talent.
It's incredible how bad this team is. Just checked the score and the 11-18 Bucks are up 20 in the 3rd. The Antetokounmpo/Parker/Middleton trio has combined for 49 points and have missed just one shot in 23 attempts among the three of them.
Why would you extend the head coach in the midst of a season like this? Where is the reasoning in committing to anything long term with this team?
What happened to Larry Sanders? seems like he vanished from the league
wroten WAIVED
ish smith acquired
Hopefully this revives Nerlens. I don't mind watching Ish play.
@SpearsNBAYahoo Pelicans acquired second round picks from the Sixers in 2016 and 2017, a source told Yahoo Sports. Tony Wroten was offered with no interest.
Sixers have officially "lost" a trade. I know many here argue others were lost in the past 2 years, but it was at least debateable. We dealt two seemingly "good" 2nd round picks for a guy expiring at the end of the year (that also could have been claimed for nothing).
Cutting Wroten is fine by me. Hopefully we can clear out some others - honestly, they can take their pick of who they do or don't like. I would prefer Thompson and Canaan go, but I won't be butthurt if McConnell/Sampson/etc, are the guys.
I really hope Ish rejuvinates Nerlens. He can actually throw a lob which is an underrated skill (and MCW could never do it).
I am curious if we go after someone like Morris (PHX).
if ish makes okafor and noel better im fine with trading 2 2nds( albeit good ones) for him
something else to keep in mind, you have saric and hopefully 4 1st rounders coming over next year so those 2nd rounders probably woudnt be playing as much as the other 2nd rounders have the last couple of years
but yea if he was going to trade those 2nds you probably could/should of gotten someone better
Fact is Ish was available to simply sign. I'm no huge Ish fan, but he played well last year, and he was there for the taking. Trading for him now is curious. He'll promote better basketball, so I'm OK with that, but what a waste to give away two second round picks for a guy you could have just signed.
HA! The hilarity ensues.
Funnier and funnier and funnier.
Do you think when Colangelo tells Hinkie to go fetch another carafe of wine, does Hinkie ask him "chilled or room temperature" and "white or red"?
d'antoni wanted smith but believe what you want to believe
I read the Times Picayune article man. You really think/believe Hinkie was the mastermind or orchestrator of this preposterous move?
And taking this a level further, since when has a GM allowed an ASSISTANT coach to dictate who/what the makeup of the roster consists of?
Is that a new wrinkle in the beloved "process"?
And I don't see how D'Antoni wanting Ish is even relevant to my comment.
It doesn't change the fact that I eloquently stated that Hinkie has been reduced to Colangelo's little bitch as this move proves.
But you stay consistent always running to Hinkie's defense...
sorry i assumed that you think every move hinkie makes is ordered by Colangelo
the only time noel has been a consistent plus on offense is when ish was the pg, hinkie misjudged a couple things and so did ish(he wanted a guaranteed deal)
i think hes trying to fix his mistake and the cost isnt outrageous and if the guy whose offense you are probably going to run eventually likes him thats even better
I think Brown may have had more to do with this than media is giving credit for.
Brett was never too complimentary of a Wroten, especially as a point guard. I think much like the coaching system, JC may have asked "what do you want?" And when he said "D'Antoni" he got it done and if he said Ish he got it done as well. Now id imagine Hinkie was involved here somehow, but this is not the way he would draw up a deal.
Overall, it's fine by me. I don't mind adding pieces at this point. At 1-29 we will have a tough time not finishing awful. I understand the incentive to be worse than the Lakers but I wouldn't hesitate to add a good player/decent contract that needs a change of scenery.
The Sixers gave up the equivalent of 2 late 1st round picks (that doesn't come with a guaranteed salary) for a guy that was on the waiver wire a few months ago.
The Sixers 2nd round picks have been pretty solid- KJ McDaniels, Jerami Grant, and Richuan Holmes. But last year they did give up the 35th pick overall in the draft in exchange for a 2018 2nd round pick.
I don't really care, if Ish Smith is the guy that can avoid the Sixers getting the worst record of all time, then so be it.
What they should have done was spend money on Corey Joseph or Jeremy Lin.
I like Okafor but watching Porzingis has made me really upset. We passed up on a guy who is 7'3, can defend the paint, hit 3's and run the down the floor with good speed. Even if he doesn't have the ability to create his own shot like Jahlil, I'd much rather prefer the athletic big who could shoot well and block shots.
Some people are going to say that Kristaps was too much of a risk, but Hinkie has had scouts go out to see him and have seen him in private workouts. Taking those risks is what separates the good GMs from the average ones.
I could get behind almost everything that Hinkie had done prior to the draft. Trading Jrue, drafting Nerlens, drafting Embiid, and trading MCW were all controversial but to me they were the right decisions.
Drafting Jahlil over Kristaps is a colossal fuck up. I don't even think you can build a good team around someone with Jahlil's skill set.
That's obvious now, but if Hinkie had taken Porzingis and he struggled here with a shit roster devoid of point guards, everyone would say he was afraid to taken a proven talent like Jah who puts up numbers. Definite miss, but that's what happens in the draft.
Hinkie gets paid a 7-figure salary to make those decisions and public opinion shouldn't factor into it. This is the guy that traded for Kerilenko knowing he wouldn't play because of his sick wife in order to save his boss $3 million.
His entire philosophy is built around the draft and he markets himself as a numbers/video guy. He fucked up.
ISH!!!!!!!!!!
good start to the road trip
Great win. Funny watching Stauskas drive by TJ Warren like he was standing still. I have not seen too much of Warren, but what I have seen hasn't been that impressive.
I still think the Sixers end up with a better record than the Lakers.
Stauskus can actually create off the dribble. So as long as his shot is falling (like last night), he should be able to get into the lane just from guys closing out on him. Unlike Hollis or Covington, he can actually dish off the dribble as well.
I am excited to see Ish, Grant and Okafor play together as well. Grant had a few plays where he caught the ball off the pick and roll, got to the hoop, but Noel's stone hands resulted in turnovers. Not that they were great passes, but I think if its Okafor he converts at least one of those. It shows recognition of defense rather than JG's usuall move of trying to slam it down over everything and anything.
I would be happy if we finish the year with a few things:
1. Okafor showing competence on defense and the ability to play in a higher tempo offense.
2. Noel playing like he did last night. (low FGA, high FG%, high REB)
3. Stauskus becoming our "shooter". He can come off the bench, but show the ability to be a rotation piece. If he plays like last night, we are in good shape.
4. Grant defining his role as stretch 4 and a faster system. If he just continues to craft his game like he has (meaning be mediocre on offense), I am okay for that in his 2nd year.
5. Covington get the shot back. He has REALLY struggled recently.
6. Keep Ish Smith as a starter into next year and either sign or draft a PG for the future. I am okay if Smith is our starter for the next season or 2. He can do what we need (without being a great stretcher of the floor). Not too many point guards can stretch the floor like we would hope so lets just stick with this for the timebeing.
We have 50 games left.
I agree on most everything you say, especially with Stauskas. You can see glimpses of his ability in a game like last night, and it's been frustrating to see his play to date this year. He just hasn't had any confidence. But he absolutely has the ability handle, drive and dish (when making shots). Prior to Ish getting here, I would have been in favor of letting him handle the ball for last possessions of quarters. Why not....neither PGs had the ability to create anything in closing seconds of quarters. But I also assumed (incorrectly) that Stauskas' play was going to improve gradually as he got more comfortable.
I have a feeling that Ish is going to make a lot of guys better just by playing the position with a minimum level of competence. He knows how to run a team.
And I think Marshall may be able to build on that (making guys better) as he gets back into the game.
Stauskus noted how his game picked up when the Kings brought Andre Miller on board last year. He would get guys shots where they wanted to get them. I know Smith can play well with big men, but hopefully that translates to the perimeter guys as well (it seemingly did last night). Marshall definitely seems to have some Andre Miller in him as well. I would even keep TJ as he has similar traits.
not a fan of this starting lineup
I have a suspicion that MDA likes Jakarr. He gave him an awkwardly loud/noticeable hug after that last minute defensive stop with Grant the other night.
probably cause of all the good cuts he makes
all of a sudden noel can make a jumper with ish around
he also needs to stop trying to run fast breaks
He gets steals and then looks like he is on ice skates.
you can take thad young off the team but you cant take the thad young out of the team
back to back 3 second calls!
Withey showing up in this quarter. I won't forget Brian liking him as a 2nd round flyer.
Ish not having his best quarter.
Holmes looking solid again.
been enjoying holmes lately
i guess covington took stauskas spot in the dog house
jazz 3 at the buzzer
down 37-23 end of the 1st
They did not miss many shots. Neto giving our PGs issues. No 3s from us.
doesnt help when the refs dont give the sixers any calls
canaan and 1
missed it
Jazz D is strong even without Favors and Gabort. Getting hands on passes and disrupting the lane.
We are shooting 50% yet down by 18.
cant we have like a 2 good weeks where one of hollis, covington and stauskas arent a mess
cant we have like a 2 good weeks where two* of hollis, covington and stauskas arent a mess
FTFY
LOL we get NO calls....and when we do, they are late whistles and wipe off putback slams.
So can we agree that Noel is a center, plain & simple? On both ends.
Definitely. They are square-pegging him at 4.
So then what do you do with Jah?
The easy answer is you play them each 30 minutes. 24 alone at the 5 and overlap 6 minutes. You build their values by playing them mostly separate but also experiment and see if they can find a way to work together.
The "great" answer is you develop a system where they can both be on the floor - leveraging Okafor on post offense. And Nerlens under the hoop on defense.
Ultimately, I think you need to test the limits of the game to ever be elite. Gasol and Randolph worked despite similar defensive issues. Favors and Gobert struggled for a long time but seem to have figured it out. I am not confident that Nerlens and Okafor ever will.... but given how young they are, I am willing to spend some time finding out.
Fair points. Z-Bo can step out though. And Gasol is an elite passer in addition to DPOY. I'm trying to search for Gobert and Favors' ORtgs and DRtgs and their on/off numbers to see how they do together vs. one at a time, but my uninformed guess is that you can pretty much have a really good defense with Gobert as the anchor no matter who you pair him with, and an elite one when you pair him with a plus athlete and defender like Favors. So I'm not sure you can look at those frontcourts and draw a parallel with Noel and Okafor, I think our situation is a bit murkier.
My concern is that Okafor may be something like a big man version of MCW. Put him on the floor on a bad team and force feed him possessions and he'll put up numbers. But whether his skills can be conducive to long-term winning basketball remains a big question. But your take makes sense to me too, so I don't know.
And then the drawback to the "great" answer is that they'd be investing years and lots of $$ waiting for a radical transformation of their two best players' games which may never come while they ruin each others' trade values. I wouldn't trade either one just yet, since obviously their values are at all time lows right now, but I wouldn't rule out a move at the deadline or at the draft.
The bad offense is back.
cov putback
down 58-45 at the half
canaan to the line
split them
grant got tired of being shoved and shoved back
picked up a t
Ish is getting worked tonight. I would rather stick with him though... staying aggressive.
Stauskus can't get a shot off but I am glad he isn't forcing it.
Covington's shot still looks awful.
jazz, "here take the game"
sixers, "no thanks"
jazz, "are you sure?"
holmes!!!!!!!!!!
rc3
GREAT quarter
tied at 78 end of the 3rd
finish it
tie game after 3!
please just hand the clipboard to D'Antoni, Brett, and find a seat.
tj to noel oop!
33-10 run
insane
get ish back in
THATS A MOVING SCREEN
these refs suck
Home cooking
Classic NBA.
that oop!!!!!
https://vine.co/v/iqegjXhI1nU
Ish (prior to that oop) missing a few at the hoop again...I still think that is the move here. Get in the lane and go up with it.
hayward has pushed off pretty much every shot and they havent called it once
noel to the line
made both
ish 3!!!!!!
tied
ish to noel alley oop!!!
up 2
38 secs left
hayward 3
down 1
stauskas miss
booker fouled and to the line
split them
ugh ish misses a point blank look
lost 95-91
how did he miss that
Brett's go-to play idea in the waning moments last night was an iso jumpshot for Scrubkus. How many wins does this team have with Brad Stevens on the bench instead of Brown? I bet it's 4 or 5.
Would you rather have Jahlil or Vucevic?
For this team? I'd probably stick with Okafor. More scoring, less rebounding, probably less defense even, but he has a more intriguing age/skill set combination than Vucevic at this point. It may be easier to build with Vuc as part of your core though.
I think it'd be a challenge to contend with either of them, but I agree with you that Okafor isn't a bust and probably has a couple of All Star appearancences in him as long as he remains the focal point of a team.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=okafoja01&y2=2016&p2=vucevni01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=
It's close.
I am with you, Okafor over Vuce. And it builds on the discussion we had above. Okafor is not a natural fit in the NBA right now., but his offensive ability is so unique at a young age.
I think my main point above was that, yes, the natural choice would be to trade Noel/Okafor for a wing. But if you believe they each have an elite skillset (Okafor on offense, Noel on defense) at such a young age, developing a system around them is worth an extended project. Think how long it took Randolph to fit and succeed in the NBA - part attitude but also it took Gasol's unique skill set to build with. I don't think its crazy to say these guys could get to their type level in 3 years (I understand we don't neccesarrily want to wait).
I am very curious to see what Okafor looks like with Ish.
FWIW, I am also 100% fine giving Ish a 3-4 year deal. What is the main pushback on him? Defense? Outside shooting? Does he remind anyone else a bit of Tony Parker?
I'd probably keep Okafor over Vuce, but that has more to do with trade value than being a fan of his game. There are no net positive centers in the league with his profile (skilled iso scorer, meh rebounder, defensive turnstile). I'm worried all of the major positives about his game ultimately amount to a gimmick. Like, if the goal is to have a rare, offensively skilled big man with an anachronistic skill set then he's your guy, but if the goal is sustainable winning, then it's better to look elsewhere. He sports a 27.4 usage rate and combines it with a ball stopping style, inefficiency, and a bad assist to turnover ratio. And his defense looks like this:
http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/
Then there are the character concerns, and I'm not even talking about his off-the-court adventures. This may just be recency bias talking, since every time I turn on the game all I see is crap, but I think he's lazy. How does a big man with such nimble footwork move so poorly on the defensive end and fail to challenge shots at the rim with his 7'5" or whatever wingspan? Why can't a player with his mastodon build rebound and set better screens than Spencer Hawes if not for lack of effort. I think he's more determined to see himself emerge as a 25ppg guy in the league than anything else. He just seems to have a selfish game, but I don't wanna go too deep with my eye-test psychology here lol.
I'd start shopping him. Jimmy Butler may be on the block in Chicago sometime soon and if Chicago wants to blow it up and start a rebuild with a Mirotic/Okafor frontcourt, maybe Okafor + Lakers pick + Miami pick gets it done. He's from Chicago and that pairing works on offense.
Ish reminds me of Tony Parker the same way that Okafor reminds me of Duncan. If you adjust for the Sixers-suck factor and squint real hard, you can kind of see it.
I think Hinkie wanted to draft Porzingis last year but was warned Porzingis' camp that he would go back to Latvia if the Sixers took him.
why is canaan playing so much
Same with Jakarr.
Coach addressed Jakarr a couple weeks ago, saying that he wanted more defense. Basically, he took Stauskas' minutes.
Regarding Canaan, Brown also kind of addressed this question, saying he needed the shooting to space the floor. Canaan sucks, but he can shoot. Canaan at the point guard is an unmitigated disaster, but at the two, he is serviceable. (Please note, when I say serviceable, I am using that term relative to the lowest of low bars set by a team that is 3-33.)
So the question for me then, is why is Covington in the doghouse? Covington should be getting more minutes than Canaan and Jakarr. Can't he also play two?
eb back!(as long as he isnt taking minutes from holmes and grant im ok with it)
ish, stauskas, grant, noel and okafor starting tonight
dont have my hopes up about that lineup working
last time okafor and towns played, okafor torched him
we'll see if its any different tonight
no surprise but the spacing is mostly a mess
stop switching smith off of rubio
grant gets screwed by so many bad block/charge calls
good stuff from the bench here
hollis at the buzzer
up 29-25 end of the 1st
no Canaan that quarter
hollis and 1 putback
missed it
sixers missing mostly good looks from 3
only thing keeping this close
down 50-47 at the half
bad offense down the stretch hurt the d
garnett starting shit with jakarr
would try to post okafor more here
okafor and 1
missed the ft
you know who would be a coach for MIN
d'antoni
good*
canaan 3
and then takes a horrible shot
landry long 2
up 80-79 end of the 3rd
hollis 3
landry money from long 2
starting to think holmes should start
holmes putback
GET CANAAN OUT
landry from long 2
landry just took a heat check
what a world
up 11
3:30 left
okafor has been on the bench this whole quarter
i hate the ish dribbles out clock and hopes his jumper goes in offense
win 109-99
ATL on THURS
So Colangelo asked Hinkie to fetch another glass of wine today huh? Hinkie is such a good boy, acquiescing.
At the expense of Christian Wood, Rusty weeps. Varnado axed.
That's a rather good guy of Elton Brand wanting to help the young pups and all, considering all the loot he stole from the franchise.
The changing plots and twists are at least something of interest regarding the team, however predictable.
Loved, LOVED this game tonight! First game of the year where things really started coming together. Noel continued his recent ascension back to the path of a future star. Okafor, while not playing as many minutes, beat up on KAT yet again when the opportunity presented itself. Stauskas played another good game, hitting 3s, driving to the hoop, and dishing. Ish was Ish (ho hum), Holmes was a fucking MONSTER.
Great effort tonight.
its a shame rubio, wiggins and towns are stuck in that garbage offense
MIN attempted only 5 3's last night
they need a new coach, Sam Mitchell is awful
Yeah Mitch is really bad. Last time I looked on the Wolves SBN forum, they were calling for his head. I imagine it's even worse now.
As little respect as I have for the Sixers brass, I gotta admit I'm glad they're not the TWolves ownership/management. That franchise is run like a fucking country club.
And yet they have Wiggins and Towns... many takeaways from that.
wonder who Cooney's referring to:
During his third of his four seasons with the Sixers, while on a West Coast trip, Brand had a small problem with a writer who was covering the team. The issue was an apparent rift between Brand and a teammate on the court. Brand settled the issue with the young teammate in private, the way a respected veteran can. He also politely took the reporter aside and explained the way things went down with the teammate. Not for publishing sake, but just to let it be known that all was well and there was no need to keep reporting on what he, and the teammate, considered a dead issue.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Brand-signing-will-help-Sixers-off-court.html#M6IhoUYe4CB0e8Zw.99
could be wrong but feel like it was Lou
Anyone else worried about Dollar Bill? I haven't heard from him in months.
He just lost interest.
Not only did Hinkie destroy my favorite team, he destroyed my favorite blog.
Hopefully things pick up again soon. For all the talk about how this process is more interesting than the mediocrity era, all the numbers (attendance, ratings, number of comments) don't seem to bear that out.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25438690/marshall-okafor-distance-themselves-from-fathers-criticism-of-sixers
Looks like the snowball keeps picking up steam downhill. Guess we see how DaddyOak feels about the tank.
I didn't get to watch the 2nd half last night. Shabazz put up points on good shooting - and yet was a -20 +/- ....is that his future? Inefficient scorer?
I remember when I was hoping we would draft him to pair with Jrue and give Bynum another shot to get healthy. HA!
Seems like Wolves and Philly could be good trade partners down the line. Jerami Grant seems like a nice fit between Towns and Wiggins.
The 10 day contract period starts soon I think. Anybody follow the d-league and have suggestions?
Erick Green from Reno is scoring 27/game on .664TS% this season and is a decent passer. And then Kilpatrick from the 87ers is 45% from 3 on 7.4 attempts per game. They might still be young enough and demonstrated enough improvement to end the Jakarr experiment.
Jimmer is available too, but having him and Canaan at the same time would be a little much.
refs on some bullshit again
126-98 L
interesting dynamic they have going on with Okafor. A team that plays demonstrably better with its supposed best player off the floor.
Interesting...
david b. thorpe @coachthorpe 1h1 hour ago
Seeing Ben Simmons for the first time today. Let me say this-if he ended up in Philly next year they make the playoffs that spring.
the starting lineup of death is back!
nice 6-0 start
make it 8
time out TOR
okafor having his way
12-0 sixers
lineup of death worked!
raptors woke up
noel to the line
made both
okafor putback
okafor's help defense is alot better
up 26-25 end of the 1st
canaan 3
tj steal into another canaan 3
demar just dunked all over okafor
not sure why holmes hasnt played
hollis 3
noel has been biting on pump fakes more this year
canaan hits 2 threes and gets an endless leash when he should of been taken out a while ago
down 57-44 at the half
STOP PLAYING CANAAN
Who else is there? I mean yeah, he shouldn't be running the offense but I feel like he's as good of a bet as any.
Even if it's a 10% chance that he shoots you into a game vs. a 90% chance he shoots you out of one
100% his d plays you out of a game
I guess you have to pick and choose match ups. Who's he guarding?
nobody really( joseph, lowry and sometimes is getting switched onto the SG)
ish 3
if you bank in a ft it shouldnt count
ish putback
ish to the line
split them
ish show in the 3rd here
noel to the line
missed both
okafor block!
smith bailout 3
smith to the line
split them
18 in the 3rd for smith
down 75-69 end of the 3rd
landry long 2
ish and okafor come back in down 11
okafor bucket
smith jumper
nik 3
lost 108-95
CLE tomorrow
Okafor looked much better to me - all while playing next to Noel.
The lack of wings is really weighing on lineups. Meanwhile I like our rotation of bigs with Okafor Noel Grant Landry and Holmes. I'd argue there is not enough minutes when comparing to the lack of wings.
I'd rather play Covington into shape (or have him sit out a few games). But also think we should consider consolidating our size into something of a wing.
Holmes or Grant could have value for an equally questionably but high upside wing player.
Prokhorov just fired everybody.
they are going to offer calipari everything
He'd be stupid to take it. I never really looked at him as a great coach, just a great recruiter. And there'd be no place better suited than Brooklyn for him to get exposed.
Prokhorov just needs to calm down and stop trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Just hire a low-key smart basketball person, step back, and let the healing process begin.
His oligarch mentality isn't going to work in the NBA.
5-0 cle
timeout sixers
okafor bucket
grant bucket
2 on okafor
jr might shoot 25+ times if the game stays close
down 26-20 end of the 1st
nik 3
okafor to the line
split them
okafor o-board and bucket
landry jumper
still no holmes
What if this is the real Covington?
okafor and 1
made the ft
down 48-47 at the half
okafor jumper
okafor to the line
split them
hollis 3
not sure how many shots he made but cov looks better tonight
noel to the line
split them
lebron starting to feel it
cov to noel
grant and 1
missed the ft
rc3
down 75-69 end of the 3rd
the only reason for landry over holmes is to try to show case landry for a trade but holmes should still be playing
hollis 3
healthy cavs vs spurs/okc or GS is going to be a great finals
lebron step back with a hand in his face
okafor bucket
lost 95-85
bulls on THURS
grant doubtful for tomorrow and embiid is changing agents
The recent commentary from JC is encouraging to me. It suggests that there is some alignment of value. I am sure the strategic timeline is still different for a 76 year old man versus a 38 year old, but it won't be a move just for the sake of a move.
It looks increasingly likely that the frontcourt logjam will be the currency to get a deal done. I will assume Embid is out of the picture for these purposes.
Noel
Okafor
Holmes
Grant
Saric
I have a very tough time trading away a Noel or Okafor at this age. That said, I don't think you can expect to get anything back for the others. Personally, I lean towards trading Noel as I think you can find someone with 80% of his defensive ability easier than 80% of Okafor's offensive ability. Part of this is my view that Okafor's offense can become something much much big than a post man.
Here were JC's comments
“The reality is, and I’ve come to understand this, that Sam has really done a great job of accumulating assets,” Colangelo said. “If you look at the trades, you look at the draft picks that have been accumulated, it’s all there in place. Now it’s a matter of when do you pull the trigger on using all those assets, or any of the assets?”
"Part of this is my view that Okafor's offense can become something much much big than a post man."
I think that ^ is the key actually, and they should look to capitalize on that sentiment while it lingers around the league. Okafor has the highest trade value of anyone on that list, and also has the most cumbersome set of drawbacks which will have to be worked around if they choose to keep him. Other than Ibaka and maybe Draymond Green, who can you ideally pair him with? It's a pretty small list of candidates and none of them are on the roster.
It's reminiscent of the MCW situation in the sense that, yes, you can tailor a very specific sort of lineup around him to make it work, but why SHOULD you do that when your roster is essentially still on square one in terms of identity and playing style? Keeping Okafor limits their options going forward and forces them to pay close attention to fit. Meanwhile, trading him, allows for a clean slate approach to this pivotal draft and off-season that's coming up
This summer is the defining, make-or-break point. If Hinkie is still going into next season without a semblance of a long-term core in place, he should be arrested.
I hear you. And not to beat the dead horse, but that is where our philosophies will differ. I think MCW was a much much different case. His best traits were pretty easily matched by others around the league. The easiest way to build a team is find a bunch of good defenders that can guard multiple positions and hope they become good offensive players. Nerlens Noel, Jerami Grant, Jakarr Sampson are all samples of this strategy.
I think Okafor's offensive talents are massively underrated. He has more touch around the rim than anyone I have seen (and I honestly mean that at this point). He has a better 15 footer than the majority of big guys I know. He has the ability to take guys off the dribble. He has post moves that get him looks. He has shown the ability to pass out of double teams.
His offensive weaknesses - athleticism can result in blocked shots. Passing is inconsistent. Does not get into position or makes cuts enough to get him looks. Not getting to the line as much as he could.
In my opinion - you give this offensive game a go. His rim protection is obviously poor versus Noel but he does not look completely hopeless - especially for a guy that has been taught to stay out of foul trouble.
Why not pair a Robert Covington at the 4 in offensive focused lineups and Jerami Grant (better version but that defense first type) in defensive lineups.
I know its more risk than just building a traditional team - but I think his offensive ability can massively outweigh his defensive weakness. And while Center is significantly more important than what Curry gives up at point guard or Harden at shooting guard - it cna work.
I'm not hating on Okafor for his offense at all..he's been hyped as a standout scorer on every level he's played, and has been able to deliver pretty much as advertised so far. Which is also why I'd disagree that he's underrated currently. Like I said, I think he holds the most trade value of anyone on the roster, so I actually meant 'trade Okafor' as a compliment to him ;) (Hinkie forfeits entire seasons to get these guys, so at least one of them better be good enough to make decent trade bait)
Jah has good size and coordination. Plus he's already polished enough to be able to get his own shot whether posted or facing up. Most centers his age can't do much besides dunk, so he's definitely ahead of the development curve (or at least from what I can tell. i've only seen a few games)
All that said, his weak-ass defense is bound to kill you. Look at Milwakee this year. They brought everyone back but added Monroe and just like that, their biggest team strength becomes a huge weakness if Henson isn't on the floor. Last season they only had Zaza Pachulia (who's a smart positional defender and tries hard but doesn't block shots) and that was good enough for #2 defense. This year, it's Monroe flanked by the same 3 wings and MCW, in the same scheme, and Monroe is enough to drop their D to last, or nearly last, for most of the year.
Kanter is another example. Good scoring and rebounding big whose defense makes him virtually unplayable. He was bad enough on defense to knock a team like OKC out of playoff contention, despite averaging 20pts/12boards on 57% shooting and having Ibaka help cover for him. The team went from 10th to 29th in DRtg after trading for Kanter and his league-worst DRPM (-3.75).
This year's league worst RPM (-5.85) is of course Okafor, by a mile. It makes Kanter look like Mutombo in comparison.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/9
"I think his offensive ability can massively outweigh his defensive weakness...it can work".
Maybe. I kinda doubt it though. at least if contention is still the goal here. Even without any +/- stats, it's clear how much worse the defense and the team has been this year with Okafor replacing Noel in the middle. He'll improve, but right now he can't score, rebound, or even defend as well as Enes Kanter.. It's way easier to just trade him for another player if you can get reasonable value. which I think they still can, because his age/skill combo was worth a top 5 pick just a few months ago.
There's gotta be a young guard or wing that'll be available in a trade that would fill a bigger need (somehow there's a log jam at the 5 spot, meanwhile, nothing is in place anywhere else) so if they can just opt out of the hassle of building around Okafor's defense, they probably should. Noel and Holmes seem to work better than Noel and Okafor anyhow. just my thoughts on the subject.
I understand what you are saying and I think it is a very close call. At this point, his numbers look awful but have seen a HUGE improvement since Smith arrived.
If you have a minute to catch a first quarter, I would recommend checking out Okafor's first 6 minutes or so. I think it has been a trend all season, but without a doubt lately, he dominates offensively. There could be a lot of reasons for his falloff deeper into the game (conditioning, matchup changes, etc.) but its efficient and has really been opening things up for everyone else.
He also had a pick and pop from the three point line the other night (foot on the line) which looked very very smooth. That is the type of "offense overshadowing defensive weakness) I would be referencing. Not what we know Okafor now - which is, as you mentioned, as advertised. But I think there is at least a chance he can expand the face up game to beyond the three point line. Which naturally opens him up to get positioning down low on cuts and movement if defenders honor him out there. Not to mention he has shown ability to take his defender off the dribble. The likelihood that this could all come together (3point shot, face up game, and passing ability) is maybe a 20% chance? Maybe. But is that 20% chance of having someone truly special on offense worth it. I think you can confidently say "no" and I can confidently say "yes" and its just a matter of mindset.
I think you are probably right about Okafor's trade value being higher than anyone else - although, I think Noel may have more value to a contender that Okafor. I haven't thought through what that would mean for return value - but Noel seems easier to slot next to an offensively proven team to simply act as a defensive anchor and catch lobs. I.e. if Hassan Whiteside didn't exist, something like Noel for Justice Winslow may work for both teams.
One of my issues with Hinkie is that he initiated the tank without consideration to PR and made the Sixers into a national joke.
The Sixers are grouped in with the Lions and the Clippers. Those teams have decades of losing seasons and incompetency.
My guess is that Hinkie wanted to draft Porzingis but was threatened by his camp that he would stay in Europe had the Sixers drafted him. His success coupled Jahlil's legal problems was a huge wake-up call to Harris and the Sixers' management.
I don't think Jahlil has great trade value around the league. Greg Monroe didn't even get substantial offers around the league when he was a RFA.
Jahlil's not good defender, somewhat limited athletically, and can't shoot.
Can you please get over Hinkie already? Isn't is about that time yet?
Also, the only person grouping the Sixers with the Lions/Clippers is you.
And yes, Porzingis would have been the better fit, but to simply dismiss Okafor's game, saying he doesn't have great trade value, is moronic. Have you watched this kid play at all?? He is 20 years old (!!!) with the offensive game of a polished and skilled veteran. He's played one half of a single NBA season, and you've already panned his career. Nice work.
Calm down.
Stan is becoming an apostate of the Hinkie religion. He's realizing that Hinkie isn't actually a visionary GM, he's just some asshole.
Why can't you join him and come aboard?
I've always been supportive of Hinkie, but the man has his faults. This team didn't have a PG, their best wing player is Hollis Thompson, and they didn't have any veteran leadership on this team. All he does is acquire 2nd round picks in exchange for bad contracts and sign d-league level players to 10-day contracts.
"Also, the only person grouping the Sixers with the Lions/Clippers is you."
No, it's not just me. The Sixers are a joke on the national level:
They got made fun of on the Simpsons
http://www.phillyvoice.com/the-simpsons-pokes-fun-sixers-losing/
Got made fun of at the ESPYs
https://youtu.be/P2fUddtQWT0?t=465
Got made fun of by a presidential candidate
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/philadelphia-76ers-throw-shade-presidential-candidate-john-kasich/story?id=34679991
Nationally they're a joke
And Porzingis isn't just a better fit, he's a generational talent. Hinkie really dropped the ball on this one last summer. I don't know what to make of Hinkie as a talent evaluator after that selection.
Jahlil might end up being a good player but he will always be limited due to his lack of athleticism and explosiveness.
no stauskas, grant will play but no more than 20 minutes
melo will play for the knicks
Ish, Sampson, RoCo, Noel & Okafor starting
I live very close to MSG and can't find anything remotely reasonable ticketwise for today's game. Consider that I comment on a 76ers message board, and buy leaguepass to watch the 76ers so my "reasonable" is probably 25% above anyone else.
As great as the Garden can be - its obnoxious what those prices are each game.
ish to noel
ish bucket
jose 3
rc3
noel cant defend the paint cause Porzingis is pulling him out
every knicks jumper shot is a win for the sixers d, they have driving lanes all day if they want it
okafor takes is right back to Porzingis
okafor jumper
another good start for him
grant 3
grant steal and 1
made the ft
tied at 29 end of the 1st
dont double melo in the post
noel over Porzingis
grant still cant buy a charge call
holy shit they never call it right with him
rc3 in transition
nice pass from tj to holmes
t on fisher
made the ft
good minutes from tj here
okafor to the line
missed both
landry jumper
down 52-47 at the half
great D by cov on melo that whole half
okafor runner
okafor again
knicks starting to build a lead
ish to noel
Porzingis 3
canaan turnover
canaan 3
grant to the line
made both
down 76-63 end of the 3rd
grant to the line
spit them
canaan to the line
made both
he split them
ish to noel
need a run here
ish bucket
melo miss
ish smith!!!!!!!
down to 2
18-2 sixers run
cov to the line
split them
noel to the line
split them
noel putback
canaan 3
canaan to the line
made both
tied game
all of this run is with noel at 5 surrounded by ish and 3 shooters
noel took a hard fall but gets up and heads to the line
split them
tied
Canaan getting killed in the post by Affalo
hollis fouled shooting a 3
missed all 3
noel block!
hollis for 3!!!!!
up 1, 53 seconds left
great d by grant, knicks miss
ish jumper
up 3, 13 seconds left
melo 3
tied game, 3 seconds left
canaan misses and the game goes to OT
not crazy about that play
melo miss
canaan to the line
made both
ish layup
lance thomas and 1
made the ft
ish smith and 1!!!!!!!
missed the ft
https://vine.co/v/iOVLeW20
ish to noel alley oop!!!
https://vine.co/v/iOVl29Pmglj
ish misses a layup and affalo hits on the other end
down 1, 40 sec left
ish blocked by melo
thomas to the line
made both
down 3, 20 secs left
ish misses a 3 but the ball goes out of bounds off melo
sixers ball, timeout
cov banks in a 3!!!
tied game with 7 secs left
need a stop
melo misses
off to double OT!
offense hasnt been good to start this ot
ish and 1
missed the ft
ish jumper out of the timeout
down 2
knicks bucket
down 4
canaan blocked
knicks miss but the ball goes out on ish
melo bucket
down 6, 1 minute left
canaan bucket
knicks turnover
cov misses a dunk?
lopez fouled
made both
cov misses a 3
melo fouled
missed both
hollis miss
lost 119-113
ran out gas in the 2nd ot
@ORL WED
I like the bump Ish has given the team but i cant believe they let him take 28 shots today. Situations like this just show they have no shooting guard worth anything.
I'd let Ish Smith take 50 shots than let Canaan shoot 5. I fucking can't stand Canaan. I don't know why he's on the team. He's worse than TJ McConnell and TJ McConnell is an undrafted free agent rookie.
The Sixers are 4-8 with Ish Smith which extrapolates to 27 wins over an entire season. Not bad considering they have yet to unveil Embiid, Saric, and a top draft pick. Tell me another team EVER in the 27 win range that has been better positioned.... you guys will eat crow when Embiid gets on the floor.
Give credit to Hinkie for doing his job... his assignment was to tank. think about it, simply adding a back-up PG took this team from basically a 3-79 team to a 27 win team. thats pretty crazy. one player worth 24 wins??? we are in much better position than previously thought. admit that at least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik9_kXWL2y8
anon.,
so maybe you can answer the question posed in this article?
start thinking about how you cover your tracks when Olajuwon joins the team
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/01/20/sixers-mailbag-11/
who?
i refer to Embiid as Olajuwon, because thats the type of talent he is.
Now there are reports out of New York that Sixers ownership made the Okafor pick and would not allow Hinkie to consider Porzingis. If that's the case (and we'll never know the truth), what a shame.
It kind of makes sense.
Say what you want about the rebuild philosophy, which I don't want to debate any longer, Hinkie has been a shrewd enough talent evaluator to draft guys KJ, Grant,and Holmes in the second round, pluck ROCO from D-league, and find some productive underrated guys as well. I find it odd that of all the trips he made to Europe to personally scout Porzingis, he would have blown that opportunity. It just doesn't make sense considering the recent draft history (athletic, modern day NBA fits and abilities), overall draft philosophy(having luxury of patience), heavy analytics influence, and style of play they want to promote. Oh well.
One month until the trade deadline. As others have mentioned - adding another perimeter player who can create his own shot would be nice. I think Stauskus shows flashes of this ability so I keep him in the mix - but guys like Canaan, Jakaar and Thompson can really be consolidated.
One month until the trade deadline. As others have mentioned - adding another perimeter player who can create his own shot would be nice. I think Stauskus shows flashes of this ability so I keep him in the mix - but guys like Canaan, Jakaar and Thompson can really be consolidated.
Good win. Okafor got to play down with stretch with Noel hurt. Now 5-8 with Smith on the team. Grant played good D.
This Detroit rockets game is hysterical. Drummond with 28 ft attempts? KJ fouled 5 times in 10 seconds.
tomorrows game moved to sunday
cavs fire Blatt, sign ty lue to be the head coach
Ha - what's the best job in the NBA? BB got the extension. Blatt the ax.
Since I've previously stated I would love to end up with Kris Dunn, this damn Ben Bentil is quickly growing on me.
I'd trade Nerlens Noel for this guy right now, Okafor too.
He's a beast, that can also step out and shoot the rock respectably.
Subject to change, but that would be my dream scenario to come out of this draft with those two teammates.
I'd be good with Simmons or Ingram for that top pick.
i respect the call. but is Bentil even projected to be drafted at this point ? draft express is a little slow with updates, but he isn't in their top 50 right now, id worry more about getting the high picks right at this point. Dunn & Ingram would be ideal for me - ingram is growing on me. Hinkie is a spot on drafter so i am not worried about him doing the right thing. Turns out his prozingis miss was probably not even his call. Embiid will turn all of you haters back into sixer fans... uh oh, the titanic is turning... look out
Now we're making excuses for Hinkie. This so called Spot-on-Drafter has had zero good picks in three drafts. Of the 16 draft picks he has made over the last three years, only 3 are on the team! Pretty much the opposite of spot-on.
[Note: Nerlens was a trade, not a draft pick. I know that is nit picking, so if you want to include him then it is one good pick in three drafts, and 4 players on the team out of 17 picks. Still horrendous.]
joel embiid will the best pick in the last 20 years
In fairness, I think you are both being way too extreme. I give him credit for Noel. I also give him credit for MCW becoming an asset. Embid and Saric are definitely question marks - but I don't think you write them off and ultimately I still think Embid was the pick. I think Grant and KJ were very solid picks. Porzingis was the big miss and Holmes was a good pick.
Overall - I would prefer we have Greak Freak, Gobert, Porzingis, etc. But it isn't like we have ended up with a bunch of duds.
No one will bat 100% and Hinkie may have screwed himself by missing the one pitch (Porzingis) that matters. I don't feel at a disadvantage if he is a decision maker in the next draft.
https://twitter.com/DanWoikeSports/status/692014301981184002
he might have a broken hand because of it
https://twitter.com/jphanned/status/692017467976081409
https://twitter.com/AdiJoseph/status/692422268140589056
Very strong first 3 quarters. Could not get stops in the 4th and Detroit pulled away.
Noel looked good. His vision on offense consistently exceeds my expectations.
McConnell is great in the backup PG spot. He can steal possessions in those pockets of the game that teams can get lazy.
Agree on Noel. He is very explosive as a center. Fun to watch on defense--so quick off the ground to block shots!
Here we go. This has been a hot topic here lately.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-unlikely-story-of-how-kristaps-porzingis-found-his-way-to-the-knicks-072828935.html
"Whatever happened, Miller didn't make it easy for Philadelphia to draft Porzingis at No. 3. The Sixers wouldn't be afforded Porzingis' physical, nor get a private workout, nor even a face-to-face meeting. After most of the pro day executives cleared out of the gym in Vegas in mid-June, 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie lingered to meet with Miller. Hinkie stopped him in the lobby area and asked Miller about a chance to sit down and visit with Porzingis.
"You said that I would get a meeting with him here," Hinkie told Miller.
"I said, 'I'd try,' and it's not going to work out, Sam," Miller responded.
An awkward silence lingered, the GM and agent, standing and staring. The Porzingis camp wanted no part of the Sixers' situation at No 3. Miller couldn't stop Philadelphia from drafting Porzingis, but he could limit the information they had to make a decision. And did. No physical. No meeting. No workout."
Whose fault is that?
The bitter irony here is that after all the praise Hinkie receives for scouring the globe to do his due diligence on these players, he ends up with LESS information when all is said and done. Porzingis' camp simply denied him access and medical records.
Looks like Jared Dudley isn't the only one. Which prospect will tell Hinkie to take a hike this year? Maybe Simmons.
Looks like Stan nailed it with his guess, while The Six continues to massage Hinkie's balls laying the blame on ownership. And calling the guy "shrewd" for drafting a couple of athletic, average to below average guys in the second round. Laughed my ass off when I read that preposterous statement.
LOL - once again you hang on every word I write yet still get it wrong.
Oh if they would have just drafted TJ Warren - Hinkie would be a genius. How he did't go first overall is beyond me.
Although I am generally more favorable, I would absolutely deal him for Russell if made available.
I think Harrison Barnes is an interesting free agent target this summer...
Deal whom for Russell?
http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2016/02/nba_trade_rumors_will_sixers_deal_for_blake_griffi.html
Yea or nay?
I assume the outgoing package would be centered around Okafor and Covington. We don't really have much else to give that would be of any help to the Clips right now.
Probably not a serious rumor anyway.
I don't think Jah helps the Clips. They need wings and current talent, Sixers only have bigs and future assets. I'm not a Blake fan, but I guess the Sixers would have to do it if given the chance.
Yeah, they'd have to find a third team to unload Okafor. He's a pretty big net negative at this point and wouldn't be a good fit for LAC. Unless they want to blow it up and go back to the dark ages.
no ish tonight
okafor to the line
made both
okafor guarding thad on and off here
tj to noel alley oop!
nets cant stop turning it over
sixers cant stop missing open 3's
nets vs sixers everyone!
grant still cant buy a charge call
post okafor every time bargs is on him
up 24-12 end of the 1st
how did this team score 128 last night
up 41-39 at the half
this game is bad
I'd rather watch this than another blowout.
i think noel just sprained his ankle
back on the bench
just go it re taped
up 69-64 end of the 3rd
ish will play but on a 24 minute limit
stauskas should watch a ton of footage of redick in the offseason
up 21-9 early
okafor just dropped a hesitation move
not sure if the numbers back me up but i feel like grant has been finishing at the rim better
up 25-22 end of the 1st
hollis for 3 times 2
grant has been really good tonight
up 59-49 at the half
thats all ball
bad call on ish
grant putback
if karl doesnt get fired tonight, the sixers beating the kings on Wednesday will probably do the trick
up 73-65 end of the 3rd
best okafor has looked on d all year
hollis 3
another one(stephenson is really bad and not smart)
ill say it again
hollis is good and im willing to die on that hill
probably the worst game i have ever seen from cp3
woops, spoke too soon
ish needs to chill out and stop jacking up bad shots
up 4, 58 secs left
time out LAC
crawford misses a wide open 3
jordan o-board but is fouled
he split them
up 3
ish misses another jumper
timeout LAC, 19 secs left
redick hits a WIDE OPEN 3
tied with 10.5 secs left
okafor misses a step back at the buzzer
bad play, not sure what it was suppose to be
The late game offense is a joke. Ish Smith fadeaaways then a Jah iso against Deandre from the three point line.
down 6 already in OT
ish miss
jordan putback
canaan miss
johnson miss
ish and 1
made the ft
down 5
canaan to the line
split them
down 4
johnson miss
cov miss
redick fouled
made both
down 6, 35 seconds left
lost 98-92
kings on Wednesday
the kings are now keeping karl
Okafor and Noel both look better with Grant next to them.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kris-dunns-improvisational-brilliance-is-good-for-providence-and-for-college-basketball/
good Kris Dunn article.
If there was any confusion about who has more power between Colangelo and Hinkie, I think this answers it pretty clearly:
Colangelo: “I think that any time you have an opportunity to enhance your organization and you bring people in to accomplish that, you need to consider it big time. You really do. I think in our case we have a very bright young man in Sam Hinkie, who holds the title of president and GM. In his space he’s really strong.
“One could build a case for saying you’d like to have more people added who have experience in other aspects of those job. That’s the kind of conversation’s that going on.
“And the question you’re asking is, ‘Is there a need or requirement for someone else?’ Maybe. Probably. That’s all being discussed.”
When asked if they are discussing another general manager:
Colangelo: “No, I’m not being specific. I’m just saying adding someone, people to the front office. Maybe it’s not a person. And that’s not demeaning who we have. That’s just saying you got to be strong.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/Front-office-moves-for-Sixers.html#7Tims6tRz2wGuUho.99
huh so the magic just want to give away tobias harris it seems
also if we could get a new thread i would appreciate it
DET gets: harris
ORL gets: Illyasova and jennings
@WojVerticalNBA Memphis is trading Courtney Lee to Charlotte, sources tell @TheVertical
@WojVerticalNBA Sources: As part of Lee deal, Charlotte sending Brian Roberts, PJ Hairston and two 2nds to Memphis.
@WojVerticalNBA Charlotte's Brian Roberts will move to Miami as part of three-team deal with Charlotte and Memphis, sources tell @TheVertical
Tom Moore @tmoore76ers
"#NBA source: #Sixers 'gauging interest in Okafor' around the league."
no surprise here.
if Hinkie is smart he'll do it. i mean they can't even develop jakarr's free throws, so i'd like to know how they plan on making okafor fast
DET gets: Motiejunas and Marcus Thornton
HOU gets: Joel Anthony and DET's 2016 1st(top 8 protected)
@KBergCBS The Thunder send D.J. Augustin, Steve Novak and two second-round picks to Denver for Randy Foye, league source says
@WojVerticalNBA The Wizards send DeJuan Blair, Kris Humphries and future first-round pick to the Suns for Markieff Morris, league sources tell @TheVertical.
the pick is this year and top 9 protected
jeff green for lance Stephenson
MEM also gets a 1st
sixers get a 2nd rounder and joel anthony from HOU
@gonzoCSN Sixers get 2017 second-round pick (originally Denver’s). League source: Joel Anthony likely to be waived.
so that's, what, roughly $1.65 mil in Harris' pocket this go-round?
keep up the good work, Sam. The grand total of your 3 year heist is well into the 8 figure range by now, and that's just from cap floor circumvention alone. And you still have the plausible deniability card in your pocket in case anyone questions your "cap optionality" rhetoric. or whatever it's called when you spend below the floor every year but never actually acquire any players that the cap space was supposedly being reserved for.
franchise value should already be in excess of $1 billion, and we're just one generational superstar away from being good. the process has been trusted.
Jakarr waived.
They'll probably pick Jakarr back up after waiving Joel Anthony. All the physicals need to clear first for the trade to be final.
can't we have neither?
I remember how much Joel Anthony tortured Thad Young in the playoffs a few years ago.
We get to see what Noel and Okafor can do in this last 1/3 of the season. I am surprised we did so little at the deadline.
DET failed motiejunas on his physical so the traded got voided and the sixers waived jakarr for no reason
Probably the best critique I have read on Hinkie's approach. Team building value versus individual transaction value.
http://patternofbasketball.blogspot.com/2016/02/76ers.html
The team offered packages that included shooting guard Nik Stauskas, point guard Ish Smith, a player with an expiring guaranteed contract and a 2016 first-round pick to the Atlanta Hawks for point guard Dennis Schroder, according to multiple league sources
http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/sports&id=369861091
let me get this straight .... you believe that Shroder is a max salary player and yet the best you offer is Ish Smith and a box of scraps? the pick offered i assume was the late 1st rounder?
not saying he is or he isn't a max player, just seems a little inconsistent.
yea im assuming it was the MIA or OKC pick
Brian -
how about a new thread -
it seems like we are the inflection point for Sixers basketball.
no hollis and no Fournier for the magic
Our former GM Hinkie drafting Okafor set back the Sixers for another two years. Even though they sucked last year, at least the Sixers had a defense-first, get-out-and-run mentality.
I watched Okafor on defense almost every play last night. He looks like he is dogging it, but I think that is only because he is slow afoot--not explosive at all. He just has very little innate defensive abilities. With Okafor, they are allowing historic totals on defense, and then standing around watching him isolate on offense. There is no identity anymore.
Drafting Okafor also exacerbated the logjam at center.
Great job Sam. Keep holding your cap-ologist clipboard for Colangelo.
https://twitter.com/preston76/status/705879672727404544
would you have traded Okafor to the Celtics for their 2016 BKN pick?
and would you have done that trade if you're the Celtics?
making that trade would have given the Sixers a 65% chance to land in the top 2, as things currently stand, which would mean a 65% chance to take one of Ingram or Simmons. And at worst, the Nets pick probably still lands in the Dunn/Murray/Brown range.
I wouldn't have done that straight up. And I would have done it if I were Boston. I think Okafor is elite at something few others are elite at today. Whether or not that can be anything is a total question mark, but scarcity has value. I also think Boston is built defensively to mask someone like him so they might actually make him work. I just have a hard time looking at his stats and saying "really? A 20 year old with record offensive efficiency stats on such a shitty team is already ruled out as a building block?"
If Philly got Smart or Bradley then I would have seriously considered it. I understand the 65% argument but this only adds a small percentage to something already high - and I'm low on the draft at this point - I just see flaws everywhere and don't see a huge upgrade versus some prospects we already have.
I was able to see the second half of a Euro league game starring Dario Saric. Here are my notes on Dario:
--He is getting minutes. He played pretty much the entire second half.
--He was not physically imposing as compared to the other forwards on the floor.
--He is a good but not great rebounder
--His jump shot was not falling, but his form looked OK. He was 3-4 from the line.
--He seemed to put forth effort on defense. For example, a player on the other team was free in the lane and went up for a monster one-handed dunk. Saric contested it and made the guy miss the dunk, but they called a foul. I really liked that sequence.
--made a couple good passes like you would expect from a euro
--His handle was bad for a shooting guard, OK for a 3 and good for a 4. I heard he had these great ball skills, and they were just OK.
--He didn't have any eye-popping skills, which was disappointing.
If you will allow me to do some amateur scouting projections: I would guess that he can be a rotation player, but I definitely do not see him as a team-changer.
exactly. which is why this whole 3 year "Dario Watch" thing is going to look very silly in retrospect in a couple years, after we realize he's just a regular rotation guy. They could have taken McDermott at 10 and flipped him to the Bulls for 16 & 19 like Denver did one pick later. Nurkic/Hood wouldn't look too bad right about now.
But Hinkie was more concerned with kicking the can as far as possible to delay his evaluation as a GM. and justifying that by screaming "BPA", even though he can't identify the BPA.
Capela and Jokic were still available too. One of them + Hood instead of Saric.
It's alright though, they just signed Sonny Weems to save money. he was a real game changer for CSKA
whats better?,
saric, a first round pick and the 35th overall pick(which they ended up trading for two more 2nd rounders)
or hood,insert whatever big you would of taken and still owing a first rounder to ORL which severely limits your future trading options
that 1st rounder was protected 1-11, so it wouldn't have conveyed.
That leaves trade flexibility, per Stepien Rule as you said. So far, there have been no trades made using the Sixers' own 1sts, so the opportunity cost has been 0. I'd also argue that there were other ways to recoup that conditional 2017 pick if they really wanted to make some moves using their own first rounders.
So no, Hood + Capela would have been better in my opinion. as for the second rounders - meh.
I preferred the trade we made to get back that first rounder. Even opening up the possibility to trade that pick in the future for a star player (I understand low likelihood) has/had benefits. I wasn't a fan of the Saric pick at the time but hoping it turns out okay. Seeing Rodney Hood is the biggest disappointment to me as he seems like a real two guard (unlike Stauskus).
it wasn't that bad of a trade I suppose. I get that trade flexibility is a staple of this strategy, so I understand why they did it at the time (reclaiming their 2017 1st). I just think Saric is a pretty underwhelming prospect, all things considered. and having to wait this long on a player I was never too excited about is just made worse by seeing guys like Rodney Hood and Clint Capela beginning to excel.
I'm no Euroleague expert, so i actually would have been alright with Saric in the late lotto if he would've suited up right away.
agreed on Stauskas. every time I see him he's either glued to a screen or bricking a jumpshot.
My favorite is when Brett Brown calls an isolation for Stauskas at the end of quarters. It is embarrassing.
new thread please
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14938684/man-charged-healing-joel-embiid
Joke-afor probably out for the year. I'll look at the positives: maybe this solves our logjam problem at center.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160311_Okafor_injury_situation_doesn_t_sound_good.html
@DerekBodnerNBA Jahlil Okafor will undergo a minor arthroscopic procedure in his right knee. He should resume full basketball activities in approx 6 weeks.
small tear of the meniscus
lol , no comments since March 11???
Brian , can you please write a new thread on the draft ?
ive seen some press out of LA suggesting the Lakers should take Buddy Hield over Simmons or Ingram. what do you think about this ? If Hield is top 4 on the board, is he a better pick for the Sixers to make at 1? 2? or 3? It seems that the consensus for Philly fans was we did not want the Lakers pick to convey this year...has this changed with the emergence of Buddy Hield? Would we want the 1 and 4 pick or the 2 and 4 pick if Hield can be had at 4?
new thread please
hinkie on a podcast with lowe
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=15139625
Sorry, haven't had time for a new post. Will probably have to wait until the end of the season, on the edge of my seat waiting to see if they'll tie the record.
end of quite an era ladies & gentlemen, Hinkie is gone. guessing that will get a new post
Halle-fuckin'-lujah!!! Just sat down in front of the tube and saw the scroll on the bottomline and I had to rewind the DVR twice to read it again and again.
The little weasel is gone!!! I pray this is the second best day of my Sixers fandom history (to this point), right behind the '83 clinching game. I could not be any more happier and elated right now.
The Evan Turner of management level has exited stage left. I take that back, that is doing Evanordinary(!) a disservice, he didn't stink the joint up anywhere close to as bad as Hinkie did.
Fucking clueless clown. Overblown by his minions exponentially.
Don't let the door hit you you useless and worthless and egotistical scrub. You won't fuck up this high pick now will ya....? Ha
Agreed. This may be the most celebratory day of this century for Sixers's fan. The finals run in 2001 was exciting but for a single incident this is tops. This is the sports equivalent of how citizens of occupied territories must feel when they are liberated.
I mean, seriously. That is exactly how to describe how I'm feeling right now - liberated. Thanks for explaining it that way. At the same time, it feels weird. Here I am feeling like I'm on the mountain top all because a so-called executive got fired (we all know the 'stepped down' was for PR). We haven't won a darn thing and still don't have anything close to a team yet I'm so giddy it's somewhat surreal.
I really didn't think this day would even come this soon. Was still on pins and needles when they didn't can him in connection with the Colangelo announcement. Can only hope it doesn't take 3 more years for Harris to finally sell. That will be another joyous day for me.
Good to see you are actually still around too.
Well said. The country might be left in shambles, but at least it feels like justice.
Ah, yes. Iverson and a band of scrubs as the 9th best overall team in the league squeak through the East and make a play for a ring. lol. just like the nets 'championship run' teams of the early 2000s, purely a function of a watered down conference with zero chance of winning... this is the problem with our fan base, we view that as success.
yesssss
I quietly hope Brett Brown is next. D'Antoni lined up maybe?
new GM is Bryan Colangelo. I was hoping for Danny Ferry.
Harris and Blitzer are gearing up to sell. They're both complete scumbags, so hopefully they just do it asap and get it over with.
So I just saw on sportscenter that Hinkster wrote a 13 page letter. 13!!?? Hahahahahah
That perfectly sums up his bloated ego. And further solidifies him being a total dickhead.
He still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. heh
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/307277292/Hinkie-Letter?skip_app_promo=true
heh. It's worth a read. 3/4ths of it are spent evoking a half dozen historical figures ranging from Lincoln, to 19th century mathematician JC Maxwell, to Elon Musk and Warren Buffett, and drawing tortured analogies between pioneering efforts made in various fields and industries and what he has been doing with the Sixers. The purpose of the letter is somewhere between reiterating his "novel" scientific approach to GMing (apparently Hinkie invented 'reason'. Before Sam, GMs relied on tribal mysticism for their decision making), and taking oblique, encrypted shots at Harris, Colangelo, and Scott O'Neil. It reads like a cathartic career suicide note/angsty plea from a man who views himself as some misunderstood intellectual ahead of his time. The juxtaposition of humility with esoteric literary passages/obscure name dropping is what gets me the most in this.
Here's the problem though. His decision making has been a demonstrable failure. Asking to be judged on process over results and rationalizing every mistake with "I made the best possible decision at the time, with the best information I had available" simply won't do in a results driven field where only 30 jobs exist. I'm sure the execs who drafted Stromile Swift and Darius Miles also had well formulated reasons/visions/intentions that explained why they were the "right" picks at that time. that doesn't make them actually right. They miscalculated, when their job calls for correct calculation.
Even the popular argument: "you have to look at the starting points before comparing this rebuild with the Celtics, Wolves, Bucks, Suns, Magic, etc." doesn't work. Sure, the cupboard was bare and Hinkie gained some assets. But he was also given unprecedented leeway to make that his sole priority - no other GM has ever had this type of luxury. When you have the freedom to focus solely on seeking out inefficiencies in the trade market/salary cap structure for 3 years, with no expectations of winning games or building a viable roster, you'll be able to squeeze a couple of extra picks and land a guy like Stauskas in exchange for renting out some cap space. 29 teams have a directive to win, while 1 can hang out at the bottom collecting debris from the rest of them.
Any idiot can build this in 3 years:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2016.html
hell I can do it, just let me forfeit a bunch of seasons real quick. Sorry Hinkie, you weren't a good GM. You're basically David Kahn, except with a compulsive fixation on centers instead of point guards.
didnt Colangelo draft Rafael Arujo 20 picks early ? this guy was the worst GM in the NBA for years. hope you guys got what you want !
correction , that was Rob "Billy" Babcock that drafted Arujo .
The effluvium of Hinkie's reign will not dissipate quickly.
Reading his preening 13-page resignation letter - crabbed with ridiculous cross-references and allusions from his delusional eggheaded mind - was a practice in reading the diary of an overeducated, underwhelming and prideful-to-the-vainglorious end Walter Mitty.
To borrow from former Minnesota statesman Hubert Humphrey, I am pleased as punch by Hinkie's exit. But I know the house of the Sixers is under water and desperately needs a functioning sump pump. Will 'Pee Wee' Harris sell? Will 'Coin Collector' Brown be vamoosed? Will celebrated half-players Noel and Okafor be moved for the mercy of the fans? Will the Colangelo father & son team magically give nepotism a good name? Will the remaining roster rubbish be broomed from our sore eyes? These and other questions will be answered, presumably before Abraham Lincoln is exhumed by a dedicated, night-goggled, shovel-ready Sam Hinkie.
Brian, I hope your interest in all things Sixers is revived by last night's breaking news.
In closing, exclaiming from the exurb of Bedrock Change: "Yabba Dabba Doooooo!!!"